Topic: Playstation Portable vs. GameBoy Advance: The War is On

[oohhboy]

I knew I missed something. Man, with this tech, it makes Sony look dumb. That mem stick you are talking abotu eggy, that is $70 for 64 megabit or megaByte right? becuase if it is bits, that is one hell of an expensive memstick at 10+ per meg.

[aoi tsuki]

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They're still charging $70 for the 64mb "magicgate" version, which is designed for smaller devices. Sure, it's a lot of space, but they don't make them in smaller sizes anymore.

Which is why you buy a 128MB (megabyte) Lexar memory stick for around $50. MagicGate memory stick's "popularity" has really died in recent years, likely because no one wants to serialize their music and conform to Sony's check in/check out system just for better quality music. There's also the emerging Memory Stick Duo format (and another MS format i can't recall off-hand).

Curious to see how Sony sells MSs for the PSP, considering that, as far as i know, 8MB (64 megabit) cards aren't even packaged with Sony digital cameras anymore.  

[EggyToast]

Yeah.  You *can* find them online for a little cheaper, with the standard size 64mb one going for as low as $40.  But that's online -- Sony's MSRP is still $65-70, and you can check that against any retail store in your area, as they're stocked in the Camcorder and Digital Camera section.

Sony has been really headstrong about trying to get its Memory Stick into wider usage, because they know they can make a lot of money off the thing.  But as they're the only ones who incorporate their technology, it's only really useful if you have a lot of Sony stuff.

You can find smaller memory sticks, but they're usually overpriced for what you get.  They're fond of chucking 8mb ones in with their camcorder products, so they may very well include a memory stick with their PSP.  But yeah, I can't imagine people filling up the freebie 8mb one and being stuck buying a 64mb card at Best Buy for $60.

I agree somewhat with what ActorJ says about how Sony isn't necessarily making a product to compete directly with the GB, but rather a product that's similar yet different enough to justify the new product.  I could see it being popular if it's touted as a "portable console" instead of a hand-held, but, well, are people really going to buy an outdated console that isn't truly portable?  The GBA:SP is selling MUCH better than the original GB, and I'm sure a lot of that is because of the sleek design and, perhaps most importantly, the incredibly small form factor.  You can't fit a 4.5" screen in your pocket, let alone a 4.5" screen with a disk-slot and controller buttons attached.

I agree that the Playstation name is a good one for gaming right now, but that doesn't mean it'll translate into every facet of gaming.  People may see the PSP, especially if it launches with PS1 games, as a gimmick; an attempt to cash in on old tech and get some of the GB money, with a larger screen and 3D.  They'll say things like "I already own these games and play them on my PS2, why buy them again so I can play them in the kitchen on a smaller screen?"  With a larger screen and overall size, people won't say "Wow, I can just put this in my pocket and I can play these games I liked wherever!"  Hell, some people thought the original GBA was too big!

Cell phone companies are starting to emphasize the downloading of games to cellphones -- even Verizon has a new commercial with their "can you hear me now" guy playing crappy basketball.  Why cell phones?  Because they're convenient *and* they're small.  People just slip cell phones in their pocket without really planning for it, and cell phones only really exploded when they got below a certain form factor.  People *like* small things when they're taking them places.  The GBA:SP fits in a pocket even with a few games, cos the cartridges are so small.  Does anyone honestly think that the GBA:SP would sell better if the screen was twice as big?  No one would take them anywhere unless they were already carrying a bag.  I mean, look at Apple's iPod -- ultra-small!

[aoi tsuki]

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Yeah. You *can* find them online for a little cheaper, with the standard size 64mb one going for as low as $40. But that's online -- Sony's MSRP is still $65-70, and you can check that against any retail store in your area, as they're stocked in the Camcorder and Digital Camera section.

Last time i checked CompUSA (a few months ago), they had Lexar 128MB sticks for something like $55 -- a great price for retail. Since i don't use my Clie for an MP3 player much any more, a 128MB stick suffices nicely.

i think the word "portable" is being confused with "pocket-sized". Merriam-Webster defines portable as "capable of being carried or moved about". i'd like to add that in the area of electronics, "portable" also infers that the device is capable of operating being bound by wires, like those for power or an internet connection.

Given this definition, the PSOne is portable system, as is the Gamecube. Laptops are portable. From what i'd assume, the PSP will be portable, just not as small as the GBA SP. If i had to guess, i'd say it would be somewhere around the size of the NR-series Clies, just maybe an inch or so narrower. This would allow for stereo speakers and the wide screen.

i take Sony's claim that the PSP is the "Walkman of the 21st century" very seriously. While gaming is the immediate focus of the machine, playing other types of media (music, movies, etc.) would fall in line with the Walkman comment. If we`re to believe PS2 IGN's specs, ATRAC support would suggest that music playback would be possible, and the 16:9 ratio screen could be due in part to movie playback. i don't want to speculate much further, but i think i obvious Sony's got more than games planned. In any case, we'll see what's what when PSP graduates into a tangible item, with real specs.  

[oohhboy]

"Walkman of the 21st century" is not going to go down well if you have to pay astronomical prices for MSs that you can't uses else where. Also if it is going to be the "Walkman of the 21st century", then pricing would be totally different from that of a games machine.

[Kellk]

Well, the way I see it is they already have the small media they need in the Gamecube disks.  Spend the next year and a half shrinking the Gamecube down to handheld size and the war is over before it begins.  You'll have a huge library of games already available, and save oodles of money by using existing tech vs coming up with a whole new system.  Only thing to worry about is heat.   Get to work, Nintendo!

[ActorJ]

sorry, but there is a lot more to worry about than heat. the GC was not designed as a handheld system and  making it into one present more diffcult problems than shrinking components and reducing heat. The big one is making a sleak small handheld that somehow magically integrates a GC controler, which consots of five face buttons, two analog sticks, two analog triggers, and the z button. Oh, and a d-pad too. Good lukc with that.

[Kellk]

No apologies necessary, ActorJ.  However, I still think that proper cooling would be the biggest hurdle such a conversion would face.  Obviously the interface would need to be changed somewhat.  

[ActorJ]

but how can you chnage the control interface and still have a portable GC? You can't. You need to find away to integrate all of the GCs controls in a handheld. I'd say that's pretty much impossible.

Sure you could chnage the controls, but then you could throw compatabilty out the window.

So there really is no point in Nintendo making a handheld GC. None.

[Ocarina Blue]

The sceen would be too small to read the text in most current GC games anyway.

[oohhboy]

I think he might be trying to get at some thing slightly different, I think he ment GC level graphics. But that would be overkill. At best you probaly can get DC level graphics on a handheld sized screen without it being a waste of time. Another issue that would stand in the way of such a device would be power compsumtion. More powerful your processors, more wattage it is going to need, shortening batterie life. It would be extreamly difficult to have something that runs at that level off a pair of AA for any longer than 10 minute assuming it can even supply enough power to start up.

[Samwise Gamgee]

i think if nintendo wanted to stay on top of the game in the portible market, they will realy have to step it up! nintendo should not make the system as powerful as the n64, cuz the ps will be able to contend with that! instead, make the next gameboy a portable version on the gamecube! or something comprible to it! and just kill sony like that!

[oohhboy]

DC level of graphics "Might" be managable with some short cuts, like not having 640x480 rez, only sampling up to 44KHz and having the colour pattle go no more than 32bit. If nintendo can get rid off the LCD and replace it with on of those new fanged Kodak(3M) sheet video displays which eats very little power. Also some of that non-volitile Mag-ram into the system. A modified striped down power book processor? Li ion power pack with recharge cradle, no more AAs. But the big milestone would be whether they can get 10 hours out of it with the light on and full sound while keeping it relatively light. that is alot of demands for a hand held even with custom graphics chips.

[Kellk]

Ooh! Sounds like you know yer stuff.  What would *you* do, given unlimited resources?   What components available now would be feasible for production in a year or so?  Will that Kodak screen be ready for prime time?

[ActorJ]

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Originally posted by: Ocarina Blue
The sceen would be too small to read the text in most current GC games anyway.

Uh, no. A 640X480 screen is a 640X480 screen, be it a TV, a LCD, a laptop, a computer monitor. (actually, TVs are about 720X480, but that is because the pixels are a different shape...). If you have a TV, be it a 13 inch, a 27 inch, or a big screen RP TV, unless it is a HDTV, it runs are 640X480, the difference is in the size of the pixels. The type will be readbale no matter what to tot he variation in distance at which the screemn is viewed.

This is not even just thoery, it is fact. There is already an LCD available for the GC, and the games are perfectly readble, and in fact look better on the LCD than they do on your TV.

[Don'tHate742]

Have they shown any photos of ANY HARDWARE?

I'm just wondering becuase i'm trying to find it.

It has no CHANCE, look how many people own a GBA, look how many companies have signed contracts with Nintendo to give the GBA a huge Library.

Hard-core gamers will buy it, but parents won't becuase it may be hard to take care of becuase it is small discs (right?).

[aoi tsuki]

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There is already an LCD available for the GC, and the games are perfectly readble, and in fact look better on the LCD than they do on your TV.

Mind specifying which LCD screen you're referring to? The majority of screens made for consoles can't match tvs. i posted my review of the Intec Game Screen (http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=12&threadid=3803) a few days ago. Despite how much i like the screen, it's not for every game. If you're referring to the LCD screen shown at E3, mind giving us some impressions? i'm very interested in how it stacks up to other screens.

[oohhboy]

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Originally posted by: Kellk
Ooh! Sounds like you know yer stuff.  What would *you* do, given unlimited resources?   What components available now would be feasible for production in a year or so?  Will that Kodak screen be ready for prime time?

This more of a wish list, but it would be really cool and effective if you had to pull out the screen like they do in Earth: Final Confilct. That would make the screen managably wide for higher resolutions. Possibly a faster version of the string-arm chip currently used in the GBA, but a striped down version of a power PC prcessor would be nice. A mobile ATI GFX chip. Stereo sound with atleast 64 channels. A couple more buttons.

But to be abit more realistic, evn with unlimited resourses, Screen would be lower than 640 x 480 unless I cold have a screen that was about 10 Cm or more. If I could get my hands on a commerical version of the plastic sheet screens that can do 32 bit colours, that woul be real nice as you would be able to have 640 X 480 resolution as you can roll the screen out. But my bet is that you would end up possibley on another TFT screen which is sligtly larger than the current GBA with front light. The CPU would probaly be a strong-arm as in the GBA, only faster and possibly with more game centric funtions/opimisations. A power PC in such a small case would over heat(Better than x86 for those speeds). Mag RAM, 8MB would probaly be enough. An ATI designed GFX, A couple more buttons with an analouge D-pad(Also larger) with a attachable joystick would convert it to an analouge stick. Not quite as good, but you won't need all the assemably that has to go with it. Foresent Card for storage with re-write ability in certin sectors fo saved games. Wireless multi play for u to 8 players. Atleast 10 hours with light and sound on.

Both should have excellent dev tools and plays only games, but I would not midn cheap attach ments, programs that would allow it to have other functions.

But I trust Nintendo would bring out something exciting and realistic priced and cheeap with 10 hours on a battery with lights and sound. Max out at say a N64 graphics.