Topic: Paper Mario 2 on the Way

[Deguello]

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Originally posted by: nemo_83
I've been waiting for a fully 3d cel shaded Paper Mario SEQUEL for a long time.  I've been sickened lately by rummors that it might just be a ramake further solidifying GC's reputation of a game collector's system.

I don't mind that the view maybe similar to the original, but I would prefer cel shading to the exact same paper technique.  I thought cel shading was mostly inspired by Paper Mario's look.

Unfortunately for us they took the paper gimick one step too far.  Paper airplanes?  What's the boss?  King Kutter?  The Evil Scisors?  The Big Book of Matches?

At least fire balls will seem like a real threat in this Mario game.  Joking aside though, you guys are right.  Why do they do this with every idea they come up with.  They brainstorm behind a ninety foot tall bullet proof wall for three years until they come up with an idea that has nothing to do with Mairo or Zelda and then tack it on like we won't notice that it could have been an original game with real focus on back packs, or oragami, or sailing the open seas.

Hey superguy.  It's nice that you waited until you played the game to pass judgement, eh?  "Unfortunately for us?"  Who's "us?"  And you seem to pass off the airplane idea as some kind of gimmick while at the same time wanting "origami" for Paper Mario.  Which begs the question, isn't making a Paper Airplane technically origami?  It seems like you don't know exactly what you want and just wish to be quarrelsome, even if you don't have a legitimate reason to.

Cel-shading was already in a couple of games before Paper Mario, so I don't see where get that Cel-shading is Paper Mario's "look."   And unless I'm mistaken, the original Paper Mario was full 3-D.

I get the feeling you already have it out for this game, nemo, by your entertaining the notion that this is possibly a "remake:, when if you had even seen a screenshot or so you would know to the contrary.

[joshnickerson]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker

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(hey, noone complained about Jak II or III or all the other sequels that came out or will come out soon)

No one complained about Jak II or Ratchet and Clank 2, no, but everybody always seems to find the time to rail on Nintendo when they don't completely revolutionize a genre with every release.

HA! How true.

[Ian Sane]

I have no problem with the Jak or Ratchet & Clank series... yet.  They were decent games that sold well so I see no problem with releasing a sequel.  That's perfectly acceptable.  Now that they're making the third game for those series well it's getting a little tiring but I consider three as the limit of sequels for one console so they're still okay.  Mario had three NES games to these guys can have three PS2 games.  It's when they start releasing 4 or 5 or dare I say 6 on the PS2 then I'll have a problem because that's too many sequels in a short period of time.  And odds are most people will feel that way as well and those series will completely lose their selling power.  But right now they're okay.

Paper Mario 2 is hardly a result of sequel madness since the first Paper Mario came out three years ago.  That's a perfectly acceptable gap.  In fact I'd say anything more than that is too big of a gap.  It just may seem less new since the last Mario RPG came out only last year but that game plays differently than Paper Mario and is on the a different system so it's okay.  

And even if Paper Mario 2 isn't a really innovative game it doesn't have to be.  As a sequel it merely has to improve on the original design or at least that's all I need.  SSBM for example isn't innovative but it greatly improves on the original's design and sure enough it's one of the best games on the Cube.  Quality is just as important as innovation or perhaps even more important.  If a game strives to be high quality it will often turn out really good.  Innovation however doesn't always guarantee quality.  Nintendo tried to innovate with Super Mario Sunshine by adding the water pack elements.  In the end that "innovation" didn't make a difference.  The game was disappointing because Super Mario 64 was still better.  I would rather have a REALLY good but generic Paper Mario sequel than one that's innovative but isn't as fun to play.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

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Avinash: How about new levels instead of only those stadiums that all play the same? Mutators? Optional weapons? If they can't add anything new they shouldn't make the games, simple as that. There's no law forcing them to make a new one every year

They make new ones on different consoles(except Mario party) who's going to go out and buy a snes to play Mario Kart when they can get it on the GC?

Mario party I'll agree is overused but meh, its one game so why should anyone care.

[KDR_11k]

I meant sports games like Madden or FIFA... Now, FIFA with vehicles would be fun! Vehicles in Bombing Run would be enough, though...

[NotRimmer]

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Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
Exactly, KDR.  There's nothing that makes me want to buy a $50 sequel that hasn't made substantial improvements over an N64 game I can get for $15.

Please tell me where I can find Paper Mario for $15

[Mario]

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Originally posted by: NotRimmer

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Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
Exactly, KDR.  There's nothing that makes me want to buy a $50 sequel that hasn't made substantial improvements over an N64 game I can get for $15.

Please tell me where I can find Paper Mario for $15

I thought he was talking about sports games, not Paper Mario? Because that's what KDR was talking about (sports games)... and then he said "Exactly, KDR".

confusion +1

Fire balls that burn paper would be cool.

[Bill Aurion]

"Exactly, KDR. There's nothing that makes me want to buy a $50 sequel that hasn't made substantial improvements over an N64 game I can get for $15."

I would find this ironic if you like the Final Fantasy series...

[mouse_clicker]

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I would find this ironic if you like the Final Fantasy series...

Or Majora's Mask... or Wind Waker... or Super Mario Bros. 2 and 3, and World... or Super Metroid... or A Link to the Past... in all reality, some of the best games ever made basically take one game's idea and perfects it. All of the games I listed I think we can all agree are some of the best ever made, yet none of them really expounded upon their predecessors too much. That doesn't make them any worse, though- there's nothing wrong with taking what worked from a previous game and making it better. Goldshadow, I think you're just looking for reasons to write off Paper Mario 2 even now- hell, you don't even know what's going to be in the game besides the very little Nintendo's press release has told you!

[KDR_11k]

MC: Uh, thse games improve enough to be considered a "substantial improvement". BTW, SMB 2 was a REALLY bad example.

[thecubedcanuck]

My interest in this game = 0
My interest in RPG's  = 0

[mouse_clicker]

Those game were an improvement on the same formula, yes, but offered almost nothing new at all. and how is SMB2 a bad example? I LOVED that game- I played it for hours on end when I was little, and sometimes still pop it into my NES to give it a whirl. One of the best platformers ever, if you ask me, and I'm sure many here agree with me. It really didn't change the Mario formula, either, just the appearance.

Cubed: What a productive comment!  

[Ian Sane]

I imagine Super Mario Bros 2 is a bad example because it's technically not even a sequel so it's really total coincidence that it plays similar to other Mario games.  It also was quite different in the way it played.  Mario and jumping were pretty much the only connections to Super Mario Bros.  A lot of the gameplay focused on throwing.

I would also consider Majora's Mask a pretty big change up in the Zelda formula because of the three day thing.  That's really unique and a fair bit of people have been turned off of that game because of that major change.  I would consider MM to be the perfect example of an innovative concept being successfully integrated into an existing series.

Of course if you're really picky then you might not consider those significant enough enhancements.  But if you're going to be like that then Paper Mario 1 isn't all that unique since it borrows the general design of Dragon Warrior or, if you want to go way back, Adventure.  

[mouse_clicker]

It was no coincidence the American version of SMB2 played almost exactly like Mario anyway- do you really believe Nintendo wouldn't try out the success they had with SMB's style of gameplay in other games? As for Majora's Mask, it's 3 day time limit was just an extension of the day/night cycle in Ocarina of Time- I see it as an important feature to the game, but nothing incredibly innovative.

[Catbus Is Taken]

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Originally posted by: NotRimmer

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Originally posted by: GoldShadow1
Exactly, KDR.  There's nothing that makes me want to buy a $50 sequel that hasn't made substantial improvements over an N64 game I can get for $15.

Please tell me where I can find Paper Mario for $15

Not Rimmer? Not worth it.

[Evan_G]

I'm really looking forward to this game, the original was one of the best N64 games.  I hope they change the experience system, though.