Topic: Star Wars Fanhouse, Chewie, we're home!

[oohhboy]

Han shot first is not important to the plot directly for New Hope, but it is a defining character moment that colours his character's actions. It provides the context, important background information which becomes hugely important in the sequels. It was only a couple of seconds, but it was a very important couple of seconds.

[NWR_insanolord]

Han shooting Greedo was always self-defense. This is a bounty hunter trying to capture him and take him back to an angry, violent mob boss. Calling it cold blood is ridiculous. He didn't notice Greedo in the bar and go over and kill him for no reason, he killed him to escape.

[shingi_70]

Obi-wan is a gaint bull shitting douche with the whole from a certain point of view thing. 

[oohhboy]

Obi-wan had to lie, but he also had to do it in a way that was consistent so he wouldn't be caught out unexpectedly. Luke would have more than likely gotten himself killed or turned.

Han shooting Greedo was always self-defense. This is a bounty hunter trying to capture him and take him back to an angry, violent mob boss. Calling it cold blood is ridiculous. He didn't notice Greedo in the bar and go over and kill him for no reason, he killed him to escape.

This is true. The order of the shooting changes him from being active to reactive. Han shooting first shows he knew what was coming and he did what he needed to do to look out for number 1. It shows a person who is actively changing events compared to a person who passively lets events happen to him. This is reenforced by his statements on not believing in the Force during the trip to Alderran.

[NWR_insanolord]

But the shots were nearly simultaneous, and Han was going for his gun well before Greedo shot. I really don't see how Greedo shooting and missing a half second before Han does is any significant change to his character. It's an unnecessary change to the movie, but not a particularly significant one.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I agree 100% with insanolord on the self defense aspect, always have held that view BUT it is not true they shot similtaneously that was fixed in later versions in the ORIGINAL, I have it on LaserDisc btw, Greedo never gets a shot off he just gets his head blasted and falls to the table. Han shoots at the exact moment he says "I bet you have BLAM Greedo dead. YES Greedo had the gun pointed already but he never got off a shot in the ORIGINAL.

Also go back to the Luke reuniting with his buddy, it doesn't change the story MUCH but it is a different tone to the scene, going in having just lost Obi-Wan and knowing he is about to die puts him in a down mood until Obi-Wan shows up and reminds me to have hope and to trust in the Force. Being reunited with his friend a moment before take off helps explain why he was in such an unusually good mood for a man about to die. It also changes the impact of the guy dieing a few moments later, having no reason to react his expression never made much sense but adding that little touch did alter the story and the moment even if slightly.

Also go back to the Jabba scene, with that removed you do not know anything about why Han is running from Jabba only that he is. That scene explains a lot of back story, if you leave that back story out it is up to the viewer to image it, the back story is different in the books anyways so hence the idea that he can't make up his mind on what is canon because the scene is the same as the novelization if you do not count the novelization as canon then is that scene canon or not? ONLY if you go by the special editions and later if you ONLY go by the theatrical cuts it is not canon. I KNOW all minor details but lets be honest hard core nerds/Star Wars fans DO obsess over the minor details and lets be even more honest, nobody can agree what is actual canon anyways, some people ignore the "official" canon, and the Official canon unofficially keeps changing.

[shingi_70]

Maybe its because I was seven when The Phantom Menace came out, but I don't think the prequels are all bad. I do find that tonally they draw some weird like between C-span in space and too much CGI to appeal to kids.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I was 16 when the Phantom Menace came out and I LOVE it its my second favorite Star Wars film, the people who **** on it do so for really odd reasons. I agree the tone is kind of off and Jar Jar is totally annoying but I was equally annoyed as a kid by C-3PO so I am okay with it to a certain degree. The ONE thing I hated was the damn Podrace scene and yes he even modified that from the theatrical release by extending it out making it even longer and more pointless.

[oohhboy]

The Jabba scene was extremely gratuitous and poorly done. Jabba didn't need to be shown, that was what Greedo was for. Why would a big Mafia boss go out of his way to see some two bit smuggler when he has minions.

The prequels were just awfully bland, lazy, emotionless, sub PG nonsensical mess that looked bad even back when they were released that made a mockery of the originals. Back then I was a dumb teenager, but even then I noticed they were seriously off movies. This series of "Reviews" pretty much covers why they were terrible.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

The Jabba scene was extremely gratuitous and poorly done. Jabba didn't need to be shown, that was what Greedo was for. Why would a big Mafia boss go out of his way to see some two bit smuggler when he has minions.

The prequels were just awfully bland, lazy, emotionless, sub PG nonsensical mess that looked bad even back when they were released that made a mockery of the originals. Back then I was a dumb teenager, but even then I noticed they were seriously off movies. This series of "Reviews" pretty much covers why they were terrible.

Bullshit, I've seen those reviews before and I get sick of people pointing to them like his word is the damn law or something. He makes some points but he misses a lot of points too.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't hate the prequels to anywhere near the extent a lot of people do, but at the same time I'll acknowledge they're a big step back from the originals. Lucas with the prequels reminded me of Hideo Kojima with Metal Gear, in that he had total creative control, with no limits and no one to say no to him, resulting in end products that, while certainly not without redeeming qualities, were overly self-indulgent.

[oohhboy]

I have to ask, what is good about the prequels.

It wasn't the characters. Most definitely not the acting. The plot is absurd. The fights were a bunch of dudes dancing . The battles made 1914-1918 tactics and equipment look like genius. Lets not forget the Yoda battle where I LMAF at how clownishly asinine it was. The movies don't give you any new information that doesn't ruin the original trilogy. The camera work is beyond lazy. The editing stuff it full of filler in a film that already has built-in pacing issues.

I have seen edits of the prequels where they try to enhance the movies, but it barely makes a dent as the material is so fundamentally beige and without substance everyone would be better off just erasing the prequels from history. The whole prequel enterprise showed how much GL "Lucked out" on New Hope and how he never really understood what made them great. The special editions of the original trilogy is another symptom of this, the edits are gratuitous, filler or downright asinine.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think the overarching story of how Palpatine manipulated everyone to put himself in power is actually pretty good, although the way it was told was total horseshit. Also, the big set-piece battles were really good too, with modern effects tech opening up a lot of possibilities. As far as the special editions go, those were actually the first time I ever saw the original trilogy, which is probably a big part of why I'm not as upset with them as a lot of people.

[shingi_70]

I found the polticing to be interesting and most of the one on one battles were awesome. Maul vs obi-wan and Qui-gon was amazing.

Even in the clone wars as cool as Cad Bane was I much prefered the episoides dealing with the the clones and more slow paced disscuions of what happens during a war.

The best story arcs of the shoe are
The Mandalore Arc from start to finish
The clone arc dealing with fives from his promotion to his death.
The arc dealing with the separatist who's killed and son becomes involved with asokha.

[oohhboy]

The set piece battles were nonsensical. You got all this space technology, but you fight like it's WW1/ACW but both sides just throw bodies into a grinder in a line with orders that consists of "Kill the other guys". There weren't anyone to root for. Are you going to care about faceless clones or equally faceless robots.

The OT battles made sense. Both sides had different attitudes and restrictions to consider. Changes to the status quo meant a change in tactics. There were people in the battle you cared about or could relate to even temporarily. They didn't fight because they were told to, they fought because they believed in something.

The story of Palpatine's rise could of being pretty good. It is a far better angle that might have help cut out a lot of the terribleness. But the odds are that regardless of the story being told, it would have been botched due to the underlying environment in which they would have been made in.

There was that game where you played as the team leader of a squad of clones that was pretty alright. It was fun and was fairly unique at the time. It hasn't aged well technologically, but being a product of it's time it had quite a few redeeming qualities.

[Nile Boogie Returns]

     I was 21 when Episode I came out and I thought is was awesome. Didn't hate Jar Jar at all (messa all sparkly glowey). I find the notion that the prequels are trash and the OT movies are gold most puzzling.


[size=78%]     [/size]
[/size]      Empire is far in away the best movie but all the rest are close to each other in terms of quality. Episode 3 is just as good, if not better than JEDI and this is coming from someone who's favorite line of all time is from Jedi. [size=78%]
[/size]Obi Wan had to lie for the greater good. Remember, "incomplete was your training" and "not ready for the burden." My hopes for episode VII are insane. JJ is perfect for this...well, Joss is busy doing Avengers so...[size=78%]

[Oblivion]

I was three was Episode I came out.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

The set piece battles were nonsensical. You got all this space technology, but you fight like it's WW1/ACW but both sides just throw bodies into a grinder in a line with orders that consists of "Kill the other guys". There weren't anyone to root for. Are you going to care about faceless clones or equally faceless robots.

The OT battles made sense. Both sides had different attitudes and restrictions to consider. Changes to the status quo meant a change in tactics. There were people in the battle you cared about or could relate to even temporarily. They didn't fight because they were told to, they fought because they believed in something.

The story of Palpatine's rise could of being pretty good. It is a far better angle that might have help cut out a lot of the terribleness. But the odds are that regardless of the story being told, it would have been botched due to the underlying environment in which they would have been made in.

There was that game where you played as the team leader of a squad of clones that was pretty alright. It was fun and was fairly unique at the time. It hasn't aged well technologically, but being a product of it's time it had quite a few redeeming qualities.

Damn I want to call you an idiot but that would be mean. DUH their battles were like that they have NEVER FOUGHT A WAR in over a thousand years, NOBODY had experience that was a big part of the story obviously you never watched them if you never picked up on the WHOLE POINT of the politics, it was a debate about creating an Army in a society that was used to thousand years of PEACE. Of course by the time the rebels came along they learned to fight they had the mistakes of their parents to learn from.


Also anyone who bitches about Jar Jar (a giant FROG inspired by Kermit who you all adore, hypocrites) but you have NO ISSUE with a giant bear who growls and everyone can understand him?

[NWR_insanolord]

Even if he is based on Kermit, it's not at all hypocritical to like a character in one context and not like a worse version of that character in a completely different context.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

fair enough but you skimmed over the issue of the bear who talks in growls. How is that NOT silly but Jar Jar is?

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't know that I'd say Chewbacca isn't silly, but I'd certainly argue he's significantly less silly. Jar Jar's just there to be the comic relief, while I'd say there's more depth to Chewbacca's character.

[marvel_moviefan_2012]

I don't know that I'd say Chewbacca isn't silly, but I'd certainly argue he's significantly less silly. Jar Jar's just there to be the comic relief, while I'd say there's more depth to Chewbacca's character.

And Jar Jar is in less screen time than Chewie. In fact Jar Jar is only hardly in the first movie, he takes a back seat in Episode Two and is barely seen for a quick second in Episode 3. If you hate Jar Jar fine, and I certainly do don't get me wrong, but how can he ruin the entire experience when he is such a small part of it anyways? I am not saying they are above criticism, who would? I am also saying the same of the classics too they had their equal share of flaws but we over look them because of warm fuzzy childhood memories. I believe that wholeheartedly because someone who grew up with the Prequels tends to defend them equally, kids who weren't emotionally attached at all tend to enjoy them equally. Then there is the sub-set of the OT fans who hate Jedi because of the Ewoks but are okay with the first two, the fanbase is divided almost entirely by age differences and how old you were when you first saw them.

[shingi_70]

Chewie is fucking awesome all around. The OT version of Jar Jar is C3PO.

[Spak-Spang]

Chewie is fucking awesome all around. The OT version of Jar Jar is C3PO.

Yes, and C3PO is the worst character throughout the entire series.  Prequels, Cartoons, and Original Trilogy. 

[Wah]

The old republic would be a good idea!