Author Topic: Yikes, what is going on with PlanetGamecube reviews?!?  (Read 9197 times)

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Offline mahovlich

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Yikes, what is going on with PlanetGamecube reviews?!?
« on: March 28, 2004, 05:12:25 PM »
Whether or not I agree with the scores is irrelevant, but the two reviews of Harvest Moon: A Wonderful Life and Phantasy Star Online Episode III C.A.R.D. are probably some of the worst in quality I have seen on the site.  A lot of the points made are simply not valid or untrue and certainly are misleading.  I am starting to lose credibility in this site's review deparment.  Keep up the good work on presenting news though!  

Offline Nemo

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2004, 05:26:56 PM »
Personally, I think a good review should be really harsh.  If you can dish out all of the game's worst points and I still say "that wouldn't bother me", then I know that I'll like the game.
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Offline Berny

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2004, 05:48:48 PM »
I agree. I already know what I like in games and I guess that should be in reviews too. But it is of much greater importance if the bad outweighs the good.
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Offline DrZoidberg

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2004, 01:36:46 AM »
i predict drama.
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Offline Aretak

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2004, 04:59:26 AM »
Which points are invalid or misleading? You can't just make a statement like that and not cite some examples.
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Offline Bloodworth

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2004, 08:14:28 AM »
Yes, if you feel this way, please let us know why.  I haven't played PSO, but I thought Jonny's Harvest Moon review was fine from what I've played so far.
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Offline vudu

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2004, 09:50:47 AM »
i think the review for harvest moon was really lacking.  there were many aspects of the game (eg. finding a wife and building a family) that were only mentioned in passing, if at all.  i'm not sure if it's because there was a consious effort to keep the review at a reasonable length.

however, i find most of the reviews on pgc to be pretty good.  both the twin snakes reviews were spot on.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2004, 12:26:00 PM »
Yeah, if you're going to level charges of "misleading", then I would really appreciate some examples.  I am not aware of any misinformation in any of our reviews, intended or not.  I would be happy to answer your questions about my Harvest Moon review, and I'm sure Zosha would chime in if you have questions about her PSO III review.

Regarding the wife and family thing in HM, I just didn't think it was a big part of the game, and of course I had to choose my topics in order to keep the review down to a decent size, as this is a massive game.  The courtship part of the game is extremely simplistic; there are only three women to choose from, and all you have to do to court them is offer items they like, which is the same process used to make friends with all the normal characters.  Marriage isn't even optional; you MUST get married after the first year.  And even once you get married, your wife just hangs around the house all day and says the same three or four things over and over.  I have to laugh when I hear about people "spending a few hours with their family each night".  What do you do with them?  They're like puppets, walking around and reciting the same crap over and over.  Yeah, you can throw the kid up in the air and talk to him.  It's really cute.  But it's not a significant part of playing the game.  The problems with courtship and family are the same as the problems with all the other NPCs in the game, that they don't really interact at all, and your relationships with them boil down into what random junk you hand over every day.  And now I'm just repeating myself from the review.  So yes, I believe I indirectly covered this part of the game.
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Offline thepoga

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2004, 06:39:37 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mahovlich
A lot of the points made are simply not valid or untrue and certainly are misleading.  I am starting to lose credibility in this site's review deparment.  Keep up the good work on presenting news though!


so which points were not valid or untrue?

Offline mahovlich

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2004, 01:53:13 PM »
Alright, I will address the Phantasy Star Online Episode III C.A.R.D. Revolution review.

First of all, there is a difference in not liking a game and not liking a genre.  The reviewer of Episode III clearly is not a fan of Card-RPGs (something I was not either prior to playing Episode III) and anyone should be able to realize that a game with C.A.R.D. in its title will not be fast paced.  Therefore, I do not believe the fact that the game is slow paced (which it is, of course, intended to be) should hinder the score whatsoever.  Time limits can be set to help the speed process, but I do not see how the game's speed could be any quicker than what it is and why someone would want the game to be any quicker paced.  I mean it is a 'Card-RPG' with strategy elements.  This is no action-RPG.

Secondly, I believe the criticism in the visuals department is a little overyly-harsh and misleading.  Each stage in the game varies in environment and color.  Also, I do not see how one can not respect the lushness, color, and beauty in some of the arenas.  I mean, the arena set-up right on the beach is beautiful to look at.  Also, all stages in the game were built specifically for the Gamecube, unlike the Episode I portion of Episode I and II.  In my opinion, there is a huge difference in the environments in Episode I and II, and I think the same can be said for the differences in Episode I and III.  Let's not kid ourselves here, the DC is certainly not capable of identically producing most of the environments in Episode III.  While the character models and some of the environments have 'low-polygon counts,' I believe the beautiful artwork makes up for that.  The character models do not look terrible at all and have clearly received upgrades from the DC version of Phantasy Star Online.  Placing the visuals in the DC versions of Phantasy Star Online on par with Episode III cannot be done.

Thirdly, how can one give a 6.0/10 in the Gameplay department and then give a 10/10 in the Lastability department.  That does not make sense to me.  I mean, if the gameplay is as terrible as the reviewer claims, it shouldn't matter whether the game is online or not.  Why would you want to come back, right?

Knocking three points off of the Control score just because your character takes a few steps of walking before he/she starts running is completely unfair and, in my opinion, is not even true.  As soon as I push my joystick as far in the direction as I want to go as possible, my character starts running.  Maybe the reviewer is a little too sensitive to such minute and insignificant details -- of course, assuming they do exist (which I believe they do not).

The reviewer's opinion in the sound department is just that -- an opinion.  I believe the tracks in Episode III are just as strong in Episode I and II and even better in some cases.  Also, I thought the one sentence paragraph addressing the sound in the game really provided a lot of information.  

"The 'horrible' problems that plague PSO III..." I found this line quite interesting.  Really, the only 'plague' mentioned in the entire review is the 'pan-pan (slowness)' in the game, which I simply put, do not agree with.  I mean, once you choose a card to equip and press the button, you have to watch your character for no longer than 3 seconds (you can time it if you like) as he/she equips an item or places a monster on the field.  Attacking an opponent usually takes about the same amount of time.  I really do not see why the swinging of the camera is such a problem anyway.  I mean, if the camera remained in one stationary position the entire time, I would find that to be a problem and cause the game to be 'tedious.'

That is all I can think of off the top of my head.  I will add more later on when I get the time and will further explain some of my points if requested to do so.

-mahovlich  

Offline Dragona Akehi

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2004, 05:21:05 PM »
Here we go.

As for your points about my complaints of slowness -- you just don't notice it. I've played many Strategy, SRPG and RPG games, and let me tell you, this game among the most boringly slow there is. Skies of Arcadia slow, and while I love that game, it nearly had me tearing my hair out whenever a battle started.

For you, those 5 seconds seem like nothing, I've timed it, and each weapon set takes at least 3 or four seconds to load from the GC disc. Each phase on average takes at least 30 seconds in loading. The sheer amount of bad animations just build up over time and bored me to tears. Every good Strategy game, SRPG or CARD game, for that matter usually has an option to turn the animations off -- Sonic Team could have EASILY implemented such an option but failed to do so. It's also extremely tedious to go through the offline Story Mode to simply open up new characters to use. Some of the more boring battles I've ever played in a Card/Strat/SRPG type game.

It's great that you like the game, as my significant other does ,but the game simply is marred by the slow as hell animations. Try playing a game like Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre or Advance WARS. The difference in speed will quickly become apparent.

As for the graphics, PSO III is more at home on the DC. I don't particularly MIND them, but they are clearly not in line with the rest of the "good looking" GC library, and I had to score it accordingly. I'm not expecting it to look like RE either, but for the piddly amount of characters onscreen at ANY given time (including four ARKZ players), the graphics are simply not up to par.

A game like Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles has *more* characters onscreen and isn't turn based and looks absolutely gorgeous. Sonic Team was known for their graphic engines back in the DC era, so it's particularly disappointing that PSO III simply isn't among one of their better looking games.

The framerate does much of its dropping WHILE the camera is panning, or when you're running around the lobbies. Pressing L will quickly chop the framerate in half. I'd like to note that I did mention the excellent illustrations within the review. However, looking the main graphics of the game, PSO III simply does not hold up. These are the same character models with almost no refinements since PSO version 1, for DreamCast. From 2000.

As for the online getting 10.0 and the gameplay getting a 6.0: some people get addicted. Case in point: my significant other. He's been playing almost non-stop (asides from the FF:CC marathons,) and keeps building more decks. If you enjoy the game remotely (and I did enjoy it to some extent), the real game is online.

Again, playing online can help the game considerably-- as I noted in my review. But only if you have a GC keyboard to help pass the time between turns. I would have enjoyed it alot more if it wasn't for those faults that you're overlooking -- which is fine. My significant other likes alot of it, but he's also played alot of Yu-Gi-Oh, and finds PSO slow, but like you and many others, are willing to sit through it because of the fact he can play online against thousands of people.

Considering the Control score: that's an average score that I give to games that don't innately anger me, but nothing absolutely mind-blowing revolutionary. I've bitched about the walking for a few steps since PSO ver1 on DC. Oh, and the control is much better now that it isn't needing to select enemies. (That so-called "lock on" from PSO I and II was trash pure and simple.)

For sound, I just happened to not like the OST. I liked PSO I and II's OST quite a bit and PSO III just didn't do it for me. I do happen to like a couple of the Arena themes, but the opening in particular absolutely puts my teeth on edge. It's an opinion. Not to mention the "announcer" who constantly likes to remind one that it's time to "Change", etc and so forth.

As for me not liking card games, I think you're mistaken. Take a look at my Baten Kaitos review or even my Lost Kingdoms review. I happened to enjoy both games, (BK moreso than LK) and I graded them accordingly. Both BK and LK manage to do something Sonic Team should have been able to: make the game play well. They had a great basis but they managed to screw it up in implementation.


I hope you understand my point of view now.  

Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2004, 04:21:51 AM »
Quote

First of all, there is a difference in not liking a game and not liking a genre.


Thats the FIRST AND FOREMOST key point right there.

I know for a fact that most reviews are based on what the reviewers read in press releases. So while they may have played the game, their enthusiasm may have only been sparked by the enthusiasm in the release.
It's definitely hard work to be a reviewer.
Sure, you could say that you shouldn't review a game that is crap, but how would other people know it's crap? You;d have to endure the crap yourself to give an honest-to-God truthful review about it, rather than playing it for 5 minutes, hating it, and giving it a 2/10.

Thats why most of my games are by Nintendo. 98% of their games are sure to be 9/10 in my books, so they're a safe bet for someone like me, who can only afford a game every few months.
There are tons of games were I put the controller down after 5 seconds, cause there isn't that initial spark that gets me interested. South Park 64 springs to mind, as does (don't flame) Turok 2, Armorines, The World is Not Enough and Tomb Raider. There are other games, but most of them are PSX games, and too numerous to name all.
That is how I personally decide if a game is good.
Not the best review method - I'd be a crap game reviewer (although I can write good) - but it works for me.

So don't shoot out at any reviewers. It IS a matter of personal opinion after all. It's only when that personal opinion is taken as a fact that things start to get icky.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2004, 10:06:16 PM »
I'll tell you that my recent negative reviews were most certainly NOT based on any game profile or press info.  I endured all of Yu Yu Hakusho, and too much of Sonic Heroes for my liking.  <bash>Had I based Sonic Heroes on a demo and press information, I would have probably written IGN's review. </bash>

However, I believe you are right in that many negative reviews are largely based on press information in magazines and on the bigger review sites our there.  These reviewers must look at a LOT of games, and they don't want to spend their energy on a game most know not to buy anyway.  I certainly can't blame them--saving space for imporant reviews is a good thing.  However, bad doesn't equate to unimportant, and reviewers should still spend a good amount of time with a highly anticipated but utterly disappointing game.  
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2004, 12:33:23 PM »
Quote

It's great that you like the game, as my significant other does ,but the game simply is marred by the slow as hell animations. Try playing a game like Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre or Advance WARS. The difference in speed will quickly become apparent.


I love how fast all three of those games go- you really feel like you're in the heat of battle, almost to the point of an actual RTS, which is quite an accomplishment for games that are undoubtedly straight turn based.  
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2004, 01:07:55 PM »
I played a few hours of PSO III, and I will affirm that the game is mind-numbingly slow.  Much more of the battles are spent watching repetitive camera pans than selecting from menus.  My very first battle took over half an hour.  Look, I don't mind long battles (Final Fantasy Tactics is one of my all-time favorites), but for a battle to be long and not boring, it has to keep the player engaged.  PSO III doesn't do a very good job of that.  Skies of Arcadia Legends almost turned me off many times because of its slowness, but I liked the rest of the game so much that I begrudgingly put up with it.  Had I reviewed SoAL though, I would have come down hard on the battle pacing.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2004, 07:23:49 PM »
I'm still disappointed that I never got any flames because I hate FFCC

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2004, 10:22:50 PM »
That's because perceptive people agree with you, Ty!
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Offline Bill Aurion

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2004, 02:21:07 AM »
No, perceptive people don't flame others for their opinions...
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2004, 07:07:19 AM »
Darn you all for being courteous and agreeable

Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2004, 05:32:56 AM »
yeah well, i think your stupid for not lieking ffcc b/c thats the best ff game on the gc rite now.  everybody else liked it so i think ou didnt lik it b/c u just wanted to be diffrent form every one else.  thats reely stupid i cant believe a guy from pgc wood be so dumb yoy stupid #$!% %!^$#*%! #^!#%$^ ^!#*%! #*$ die 49216348 and go ()&^# o--f14/\/\3--paqjh IU@QIH$#V --FLAME--Y$@*IHRFNB your mom is hot*&$*(#2746&^t874

THAT'S IT IM LEAVING PGC FOREVER






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Offline RickPowers

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2004, 07:43:24 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Termin8Anakin
Quote

I know for a fact that most reviews are based on what the reviewers read in press releases.


Oh, geez ... wow.  I don't even know where to start with dissecting you over this.  First, I don't know that I ever "read" a press release.  I might skim it, but I rarely ever commit any serious time to one.  I can't imagine anyone else at PGC, or anywhere else I've ever written for has done this.

Furthermore, I'd submit that game reviews are largely based on a gut reaction and are exercises in justifying that reaction. Saying that it has anything to do with a press release (or more generally, hype) is so off-base that I can't even fully respond to it.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2004, 11:34:05 AM »
Oh, no! Rick has a new avatar! That's it! I'm leaving! Goodbye! (j/k)

Offline NWR_Lindy

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2004, 01:13:15 PM »
Quote

Furthermore, I'd submit that game reviews are largely based on a gut reaction and are exercises in justifying that reaction. Saying that it has anything to do with a press release (or more generally, hype) is so off-base that I can't even fully respond to it.


Totally agree.  I can pretty much tell what score I'm going to give a game after playing it for a half-hour, usually less if we're not talking RPGs.  A good game will grab you right away and have you coming back for more.  Metroid Prime did that for me, for example.

Also, good games are easy to review.  Crappy games are hard to review.

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2004, 07:27:46 PM »
I personally don't mentally assign a review score until after the actual review is written.
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Offline Uncle Rich AiAi

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2004, 07:47:32 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Silks
Quote

Furthermore, I'd submit that game reviews are largely based on a gut reaction and are exercises in justifying that reaction. Saying that it has anything to do with a press release (or more generally, hype) is so off-base that I can't even fully respond to it.


Totally agree.  I can pretty much tell what score I'm going to give a game after playing it for a half-hour, usually less if we're not talking RPGs.  A good game will grab you right away and have you coming back for more.  Metroid Prime did that for me, for example.

I disagree with your "half-hour" statement.  Eg:  When I first started playing Metroid Prime, I thought it would have became the best game I have played, but after about 15 hours, I got bored of it and couldn't be half-assed to finish it.

edit: typo

Offline FFantasyFX

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2004, 08:25:47 PM »
Originally posted by: AiAi
Quote



I disagree with the "half-hour" statement.  Eg:  When I first started playing Metroid Prime, I thought it would have became the best game I have played, but after about 15 hours, I got bored if it and couldn't be half-assed to finish it.



That's really odd.  Based on the first half hour, my initial impression was that Retro had really screwed up the game.  In fact, after my first sitting, I didn't play the game again for another three months.  However, when I finally got around to to playing again, I discovered that the more I played the game, the happier I was with the product.  After completion, my opinion is that it's the best game for the Gamecube so far.

Anyway, I'm backing up your general point that you shouldn't prejudge a game after only a half a hour.  Our completely opposite experiences with Prime will attest to that.  

Offline Bloodworth

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2004, 09:02:28 PM »
I usually have a ballpark idea of how I'm going to score a game, but I'm always pretty strict on waiting until I get all the way through a game to commit to a number.  

I think Final Fantasy VII did that to me.  I was a big fan of the series and I loved the first disc of Final Fantasy VII, but after that it seemed that it just began to infuriate me more and more until I got to the final battle completely hating the game, continuing simply in the hope that it might redeem itself. (Note: please don't turn this into a flame war about FFVII.)
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Offline Ocarina Blue

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2004, 09:05:54 PM »
Heh. I played the first disc of FFVII and hated it.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2004, 06:51:21 AM »
Some games unravel themselves in a short timespan, and some don't.  Our reviews hold up either way, because we play through most or all of a game before reviewing it, regardless of our initial impression and whether it held up or not.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2004, 11:45:09 AM »
Quote

Furthermore, I'd submit that game reviews are largely based on a gut reaction and are exercises in justifying that reaction. Saying that it has anything to do with a press release (or more generally, hype) is so off-base that I can't even fully respond to it.


Eh, I don't think Termin8 was attacking anyone specifically, Rick. I think he was just saying a lot of reviews, at the very least too many, are more based on what the reviewer read in a press release or what he's been told about a game rather than what he or she has actually played of the game. For instance, when Halo came out it had been hyped so incredible much I think most reviewers were afraid to give it anything less than a perfect or near perfect score, whether they thought it deserved it or not. And maybe they did think it deserved it, but not wholly because what they PLAYED was great but because it had been hyped up beyond belief for so long. Termin8 wasn't saying YOU do that, or that it's good that anyone does it, just that it happens. I don't think you can deny that.
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Offline RickPowers

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2004, 12:36:11 PM »
I think you guys are misunderstanding what I meant by "gut reaction".  I didn't mean your INITIAL reaction ... I mean it's how you feel about something on a level that you might not even be able to quantify.  Sometimes, it's when someone asks you why you like something, and your only response is "I don't know.  I just DO."  That sort of thing.  It's a visceral response, as opposed to anything quantifiable ... which is what I meant when I said that they are exercises in justifying that reaction.  People just don't think in terms of scores, they just like something, don't like it, or don't really care.

Yes, I frequently know what direction I'm going to lean in regarding a game in about half an hour to an hour.  But that's only in terms of positive or negative ... the SCORING itself is a much longer process for me.  Mainly because I have my own criteria that I've exstablished to keep my reviews as consistent as possible.  Sometimes, I'm surprised at the score I end up at, because my initial "guess" ends up being so different.  
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Offline vudu

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2007, 10:27:07 AM »
Bump
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline ShyGuy

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2007, 11:02:10 AM »
Vudu, you troublemaker. Delicious

Offline Shift Key

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2007, 01:37:01 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: DrZoidberg
i predict drama.


ZOIDBERG WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG

Offline Arbok

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2007, 03:19:12 PM »
Well they were right, PSOIII was awful (my local EB won't even take the game off my hands either...).
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Offline IceCold

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2007, 06:31:53 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: S-U-P-E-R
I'm still disappointed that I never got any flames because I hate FFCC


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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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RE:Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2007, 06:57:14 PM »
Where the PSOIII fanboys at?

Oh, right, there aren't any.

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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RE: Yikes, what is going on with Planet Gamecube reviews?!?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2007, 03:25:56 AM »
Move along, kids.
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