Topic: Wii Lite - a Hypothesis

[jakeOSX]

so i was staring at my unplayed gamecube games and was thinking about how that was a big selling point for the Wii.

but we are fairly far into the generation now. Sony has dumped hardware PS2 compatibility, XBox only had limited to begin with, which leaves the Wii.

So allow me to go out on a limb.

Wii Lite to debute. It will remove all of the GameCube hardware, but increase the internal memory to four gigs (ish).

This should allow the price to go down. Memory is cheep these days.

perhaps M+ or Wiispeak in there if the price stayed the same, but that i'm not so sure about.

the idea would be to lower the price of the Wii, as people want/think, etc, but not to make the Wii 2 jump (like HD or something). People who have a Wii won't be getting a new one (since Wii =\= DS) but those that don't would have an incentive too (the lower price).

[that Baby guy]

If you removed the Wii's GC backwards compatibility, you'd be taking out it's processor and graphics chip/card.  When you're playing a GC game on the Wii, the processor literally works at the same speed and efficiency as the Gamecube's did, rather than at full power, as it would with a Wii game.

This is why developers have stated before that the Wii is GC 2.0 or even 1.5.  It's literally more of the same.

Wii hardware has not gone down in price for one reason:  It still sells.  It sells at the price margin it is for sale at now.  Sales are just now beginning to slow, and so price might lower in some time, but it has nothing to do with the components of the hardware, and everything to do with demand.

Alternatively, the Wii could be re-released in a black color, like it will in August in Japan.  That could raise demand for the Wii, and keep the price from needing to be lowered.  Nintendo likes to use new colors or package new software to raise demand rather than price drops, and like to hold on to pricing as long as it can sell.

Edit:  They could easily increase the onboard flash memory from 512 MB to something higher, but there's not much reason we'd want that.  The larger the flash memory, the higher premium we'll have to play.  You'd be better off expanding the memory on your own through the SD card slot, looking for a deal online, or something similar.  It's characteristic of consoles that when the console's maker does something the user should be able to do on their own, a premium is charged, and functionality is lowered.  For example, look at the 360's HDD and contrast it to the PS3.  With the 360, you need an official 360 drive, a device that comes in only a few sizes, and each is very overpriced.  With the PS3, you can connect your own drive, which is much less expensive, and can be used with a computer in conjunction, among other things.

[BlackNMild2k1]

To summarize all that.

The Wii processor is a beefed up GC processor. If you remove the GC elements from Wii, all you will have left is the outer casing.

The Wii processor literally slows down to GC speed and limits the RAM to what the GC used, when playing GC games.
Wii really is two GC's duct taped together.

[stevey]

The only thing they can remove is the GC ports on the Wii's top, and they won't do that because they use them for maintenance and repair of old Wiis.

+Nintendo needs a reason to make more wavebirds For The Wii!

To summarize all that.

The Wii processor is a beefed up GC processor. If you remove the GC elements from Wii, all you will have left is the outer casing.

The Wii processor literally slows down to GC speed and limits the RAM to what the GC used, when playing GC games.
Wii really is three GC's duct taped together.

fixed

[jakeOSX]

hm. well that shoots the idea. i swore the wii worked like the DS where there was a second chip in there for game cube compatibility. Then you are right, removing the ports doesn't save enough to change the Wii.

[Stratos]

They don't have to remove backwards compatibility to make a Wii Lite. I think your idea of a Wii Lite, Jake, is still a good one to consider. Just add a new incentive. Perhaps more of a 'Wii DSi'. Add something like the cameras were added on the DS.

Though the M+ may actually be the new "DSi-esque" incentive for Wii, just packaged separately.

[ShyGuy]

Make a WiiGO by removing the optical drive and just have an SD card slot and a bigger internal storage. Make Wii-Sports-Fit-Play-Resort-Music downloadable titles.

[Ian Sane]

Make a WiiGO by removing the optical drive and just have an SD card slot and a bigger internal storage. Make Wii-Sports-Fit-Play-Resort-Music downloadable titles.

So you want Nintendo to make a variation of the Wii that is completely incompatible with 99.999% of the Wii games released?  That isn't really a Wii at all since it can't play any Wii games you can just go buy on the shelf.

Plus the target demo for this seems unlikely to be tech savy enough to take their Wii online to download the finite amount of games they can play.  A downloadable only model if anything is more for the hardcore, who would never buy this.

[that Baby guy]

To be fair, several Wii games are depressingly small.  Shockingly teeny tiny.  I'll post the ones on my list:

Animal Crossing: .5 GB
Castle of Shikigami III: 1.75 GB
Dragon Quest Swords: 2.51 GB
Guitar Hero III: 3.81 GB
Guitar Hero Aerosmith: 3.56 GB
Mario Kart: 2.79 GB
Sonic and the Black Knight: 3.41 GB
Sonic Unleashed: 3.82 GB
Super Mario Galaxy: 3.44 GB
Super Paper Mario: 0.48 GB
Brawl: 7.11 GB
House of the Dead 2 & 3: 3.26 GB
Wii Sports: 0.32 GB

The grand total of all of those is 32.94

Don't get me wrong, that's not a complete list of all the games I own, but it's the list of the ones I know the actual data size of right now.  Essentially, only Brawl is larger than a standard DVD (4.97 GB), and most games don't reach more than 4 GB's, some are less than one.  If Nintendo were to release a Wii that forewent an optical drive for an HDD, it would work, to be fair.  The issue, still, would be cost.  How much does a DVD drive that can read that special laser printing on a WOD (the Wii discs are DVD's with a unique burn right along the inner ring, so they're called WOD), and how much does, say, a 64 GB drive cost?  Actually, the real truth is that for most users, a 20 GB drive would work, as long as you could expand or install your own.  Maybe the price actually would balance out....

Still, it's not a good idea.  Market wouldn't jump on that too easily, and install/download times would be atrocious, in many cases.

[Mop it up]

Mario Kart: 2.79 GB
Super Mario Galaxy: 3.44 GB

I knew Mario Kart Wii could've had more tracks. I'm kind of surprised that Super Mario Galaxy doesn't use all of the space available... makes me wonder just how huge the sequel is going to be.

[TJ Spyke]

What is your source for those sizes? I seriously doubt that Animal Crossing: City Folk is only 500MB or Super Paper Mario is only 480MB.

[Mop it up]

It makes sense to me. Animal Crossing has very few game areas and Super Paper Mario has the graphics of a Super NES game.

[ShyGuy]

Make a WiiGO by removing the optical drive and just have an SD card slot and a bigger internal storage. Make Wii-Sports-Fit-Play-Resort-Music downloadable titles.

So you want Nintendo to make a variation of the Wii that is completely incompatible with 99.999% of the Wii games released?  That isn't really a Wii at all since it can't play any Wii games you can just go buy on the shelf.

Plus the target demo for this seems unlikely to be tech savy enough to take their Wii online to download the finite amount of games they can play.  A downloadable only model if anything is more for the hardcore, who would never buy this.

This is why the PSP Go will fail.

[Deguello]

Cutting out retail at this point would be absolutely retarded.  This is why the PSP Go will absolutely fail.

However you have stumbled upon a good idea for the next Wii console!  No, not digital downloads.  Cartidges!  Yes, Nintendo should go back to carts.

As far as I'm concerned, Optical media has far overshot any gamer's or developer's real need for space.  Solid State prices are dropping very quickly, with a 4 GB SD card running about $5 in some places.  By 2012, the price of... say a 16-32GB SD card could be around $8 wholesale.  And that is PLENTY for video games.  Sure you won't be able to get a Dual-Layer Blu-Ray's worth of space, but that much space isn't necessary anyway.

The Benefit of these carts would be the joyous loading times of the DS, less moving parts which means little chance for DREs, more reliable hardware, a retail presence, and the loveliness of actually owning a product you bought with money.

It's really a no-brainer to me.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Cutting out retail at this point would be absolutely retarded.  This is why the PSP Go will absolutely fail.

However you have stumbled upon a good idea for the next Wii console!  No, not digital downloads.  Cartidges!  Yes, Nintendo should go back to carts.

As far as I'm concerned, Optical media has far overshot any gamer's or developer's real need for space.  Solid State prices are dropping very quickly, with a 4 GB SD card running about $5 in some places.  By 2012, the price of... say a 16-32GB SD card could be around $8 wholesale.  And that is PLENTY for video games.  Sure you won't be able to get a Dual-Layer Blu-Ray's worth of space, but that much space isn't necessary anyway.

The Benefit of these carts would be the joyous loading times of the DS, less moving parts which means little chance for DREs, more reliable hardware, a retail presence, and the loveliness of actually owning a product you bought with money.

It's really a no-brainer to me.

What about capitalizing on the massive success that is the Wii and its DVD format for the Wii2?

[that Baby guy]

Couldn't both WODs and the SSD catridges be used on one unit?  Hahaha... Make a second Nintendo Disc Drive, since it could work well now, unlike the 64

[Deguello]

What about capitalizing on the massive success that is the Wii and its DVD format for the Wii2?

Why not use the massive success of the DS and it's cards? 

Well sure, there should be a disc slot for Wii backwards compatibility.  But think about the size of an SD Card for a minute.  The entry port for it on the Wii is already so tiny.  Think of the DS card slot on the DS.  But Solid State offers a lot more benefits that are relevant to GAMES, as opposed to simple popularity.  Like DVD did for VHS.  Tape was a lot cheaper than discs, but the advances were a lot more appreciated.

[Mop it up]

I would be all for switching back to a cartridge-esque format. But I doubt it will happen since discs are cheaper to manufacture, and companies are always looking to save a few bucks even if it means sacrificing a little functionality.

[Deguello]

But alas!  If discs were cheaper to manufacture, why did the DS's media win out over the PSP's?  The cards and carts have more of the values that gamers associate with games, with up to 256 MB on a DS Card being "Good enough" for all types of games.  Even though the PSP's discs have 2 GB of capacity, that much space comes with the price of loading times and larger, less reliable media, which isn't what customers value from handheld games.

But at the same time, the DS is the most popular Videogame system out now, so shouldn't consoles want to reflect those values too?  The only reason we tolerate load times on consoles is because of the higher production values, but what if an option exists to bring those same values faster and more reliably?  A 16 GB SD Card would be comparable same price as a Blu-Ray disc in 2011 or 2012.  adn 16 GB is plenty for all types of games, even full city Sandbox whatevers.  The advantage of discs would be very few then.

[Mop it up]

The DS is a portable and Nintendo is smart enough to realize that consumers aren't going to want discs for a portable gaming system. Customers value portability and discs don't really have that. As long as it seems like the home console market will tolerate discs then companies will stick with them.

It may happen eventually but I doubt it will happen in the next generation. Especially not from Sony, who will either still be pushing Blu-ray or some new, high-capacity disc. Nintendo is the only likely candidate since they have a history with cartridges.

[BranDonk Kong]

thatguy is right about the sizes of Wii games. Animal Crossing was so small you could boot the game in the Gamecube, take out the disc, and never have to put it back in. EVER.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I'm all for a proprietary SD card solution, but the Wii2 will be fully compatible with the Wii and that means DVD as the main format.
Maybe there will be games released on a special SD card (upto 32 GB) but it will in no way replace DVD's for retail game distribution

[Deguello]

The DS is a portable and Nintendo is smart enough to realize that consumers aren't going to want discs for a portable gaming system. Customers value portability and discs don't really have that. As long as it seems like the home console market will tolerate discs then companies will stick with them.

It may happen eventually but I doubt it will happen in the next generation. Especially not from Sony, who will either still be pushing Blu-ray or some new, high-capacity disc. Nintendo is the only likely candidate since they have a history with cartridges.

I disagree.  The next gen is exactly where we will see Nintendo push a solid state format (Heck Iwata even mentioned in E3 2006 that he hated load times (as does everyone) and wants to keep them as low as possible.  How much lower is total elimination?).  I expect MS to go full Digital Distribution and Sony to either do that or stick with Blu-Ray.

You see no-low loading times as a "portable" value instead of a "general video game" value, and that's where you are mistaken.  Who "LIKES" loading times?  Nobody.  That's why the complete elimination of them for consoles would be a big deal.  And digital distribution unfortunately still has a "loading time" in the form of actually having to down"load" a game over days in some cases.

And BnM, there already is a Nintendo platform that uses two separate media, one for backwards compatibility.  The DS uses tiny DS cards And the almost 3x as big GBA carts until they were generall phased out earlier this year.  I see no reason why that can't also work for The Wii2.

[Mop it up]

I hope you're right about that because I would love to see them use some sort of solid state media type next time around.

Of course consumers don't like loading times but I was trying to look at it with a business perspective. I don't think game publishers care about loading times, they'd rather save money if they could.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But the point of eliminating a disc drive in favor of solid state wouldn't happen next gen, but maybe the one after it.

If Nintendo made a Wii2 with both media, DVD for Wii & SD for Wii2, I don't see them phasing out a DVD drive completely until Wii3.
or at best, late cycle Wii2 as a Wii2lite.