Topic: Battlefield Could Have Been Exclusive to GameCube

[BlackNMild2k1]

BNM-

Sorry, I thought you were speaking about general company philosophies there.  My mistake.

Strictly regarding online services, it doesn't cost Sony any money to provide those bells and whistles? They don't require any additional processing power? The 360 can be used online without a subscription fee?

mmm...

As for the long history, online simply hasn't been a focus for Nintendo.  Their focus has been on game quality, and local multiplayer.  I know it would be awesome if every company was great at everything.  But do you think Nintendo's focus was a mistake?

As time has moved on and the popularity of online is increasing, yes, Nintendo is starting to focus on it more.  So, what's the problem?  For most people when a Wii/DS game has online functionality they are interested in, they've enjoyed it.  That's why Brawl and Kart and Tri and Animal Crossing and CoD have been as popular as they are on the platform.  And in the future, it looks like it will only get better.  So, yea, I'm happy with that.

Actually, I've never played Brawl online, but that's only because of how bad I heard the online experience is for that game. (and how bad I would probably get my ass kicked against NWR veterans : )

But I'm not even talking about gameplay and local multi. I'm strictly speaking about the online network in it's entirety. Over 25 years ago Nintendo started dabbling in online. Even with baby steps they should be farther ahead of where they are today especially when others (such as MS with XBL & Valve with Steamworks) have already paved the path.
There are certain games where the online works fine, but there are others where it's just slow, broken and completely ruins any willingness to put up with it.

I can't tell you how many failed attempts there were at playing The Conduit way back when, or how bad the SSBB online was. Even if you counter with how well online was handled in MKWii or maybe a game like MH3 (haven't played it and don't know how the online turned out), it doesn't change the fact that Nintendo's Online Experience is a very broken and inconsistent system due to the way it was set up.

Every game is independent of the system, there is no unification of anything, everything is really damn slow, you have no way of scheduling anything with anyone without using some outside system and even when everything comes together, it's a C+ effort at best.

I'm not saying that there is no enjoyment to be had in any specific individual game, but I'm looking at the big picture here, and we Nintendo customers are not getting what we deserve on the online interface front.

It's like buying a DVD player that is technically as capable as any other DVD player out there, but only has a play, stop and skip forward/back buttons on the remote. Yes, it works and I get to watch my movies, but what if I want to pause or skip to scene or access the menu, turn on subtitles, replay in slowmo and actually navigate the menu.
That would be pretty unacceptable in most peoples point of view even if you can still watch and enjoy the movie like everyone else. That gimped lacking remote is like Nintendo's Online efforts to this point in time. It could and should be so much more.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Ceric -

So why do people across the net not have "focused discussion" on Sony and MS's shortcomings?  Why have some multi-platform media outlets let the focus on Nintendo's shortcoming dictate that they don't even really cover them anymore? That's the kind of "focus" that is relevant to this discussion.  Not how in depth something is discussed.

I'm sorry your use of the Nintendo Shop Channel has been like scaling a 20ft wall. 

~~~

So, I get it... Ceric, BNM, Broodwars, Neal and (I'm sure) many others find Nintendo's online services unacceptable and aggravating.  In addition, they feel Nintendo's total mistakes outweigh that of any competitor's, and should thusly be focused on.
I am willing to acknowledge and accept this reality.

Maybe then you all could acknowledge and accept that many, many people find Nintendo's online services acceptable and enjoyable? And that many, many people don't find Nintendo's mistakes to be so drastically different than any given competitor's? And thus, not worth harping on?

... I'm just trying to find a way for us to all peacefully come away from this discussion with something.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Or maybe because this is a Nintendo site we happen to focus on things related to Nintendo (the good and the bad)*

and just because you and alot of other people are perfectly happy in their one bedroom apartment with all the basic necessities, doesn't mean they would't be much happier in that 2 story 4 bedroom with all the bells and whistles including the pool & spa in the back.






*not that we don't have threads dedicated to Sony & MS for raggin on their misfortunes or giving them props when deserved too.

[Chocobo_Rider]

*sigh*... I tried...

Or maybe because this is a Nintendo site we happen to focus on things related to Nintendo (the good and the bad)*

And you find it equal across the general culture? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only coming up because it was a Nintendo discussion. Sheesh.  It should have been painfully obvious from the very beginning that the only issue is when ALL ELSE IS THE SAME Nintendo still gets bashed with more frequency and intensity.

and just because you and alot of other people are perfectly happy in their one bedroom apartment with all the basic necessities, doesn't mean they would't be much happier in that 2 story 4 bedroom with all the bells and whistles including the pool & spa in the back.

Except that with Nintendo platforms there are actually a lot of other benefits.  Such as 1st party games, pioneering technology and extra money in your pocket to buy more games.  So, fit those in to your analogy however you need to.

[broodwars]

Dude, if you enjoyed Nintendo's pathetically broken online service, fine.  Good for you.  But let's not pretend that the service was actually good or well-thought out for anyone's benefit other than Nintendo's.

You remember when I told you that I've seen the Shop Channel routinely take between 3-5 minutes to load between 3 pages of content, assuming the service even loads at all (I've seen that shop crash at least 1/5 times I've tried to access it)?  You asked how bad that was when you eventually get your game.  Well, let me put this in context: it routinely takes between 3-5 seconds to load that same amount of content on PSN, and I didn't pay for that service either until I got my Playstation Plus subscription earlier this year.  When I can get just as much if not more enjoyment out of that PSN experience at a fraction of the time investment with the same cost to the consumer, how can you say that Nintendo isn't woefully behind the rest of the industry on online?

Now, there are really terrible issues with PSN as well.  The download times are well beyond unacceptable, as people who see my posts on Twitter can tell you whenever I download a new title (and then complain that it'll take 1-2 hours to download 1-2 GB of data).  Game patches and system firmware updates take forever to download and install (though less these days since my PS+ subscription lets me download and install them during the night when I'm not playing).  The matchmaking is also pretty spotty at times, though usually it's fine.  That said, it is in a whole other league from Nintendo's online experience, and unlike Nintendo Sony has justified my faith that the next incarnation of PSN will be much better for all the lessons they've learned this generation.

And the sad thing is, the experience is so bad by comparison on the Wii because Nintendo has just never cared about online.  They didn't feel that online was ever going to be a critical aspect of their own games, and they have traditionally made their money in retail not digital.  As a fan of traditional Single-Player retail games and someone who generally avoids online play, I can respect that.  But in typical Nintendo fashion, they didn't give a crap if that made things worse for anyone else so long as it suited their own needs, and so we ended up with the Wii and 3DS' online infrastructure.  It could have been so much better and Nintendo should have had the experience to make it so, but they just didn't care.

Could the Wii U's online experience be much better?  It should be, and I hope it is.  That said, given how poor the 3DS e-Shop apparently is, I really don't have a reason to believe that Nintendo's learned their lesson.

[NWR_insanolord]

Or maybe because this is a Nintendo site we happen to focus on things related to Nintendo (the good and the bad)*

And you find it equal across the general culture? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only coming up because it was a Nintendo discussion. Sheesh.  It should have been painfully obvious from the very beginning that the only issue is when ALL ELSE IS THE SAME Nintendo still gets bashed with more frequency and intensity.

Stop complaining about the general gaming culture here. We know it's bad; that's why we're here instead of there. You're ruining this site by bringing your complaints about it here.

and just because you and alot of other people are perfectly happy in their one bedroom apartment with all the basic necessities, doesn't mean they would't be much happier in that 2 story 4 bedroom with all the bells and whistles including the pool & spa in the back.

Except that with Nintendo platforms there are actually a lot of other benefits.  Such as 1st party games, pioneering technology and extra money in your pocket to buy more games.  So, fit those in to your analogy however you need to.

He was specifically referring to the online system, and it's pretty clear that that's what he was doing. Those points have nothing to do with the online system. They are good things about Nintendo, but irrelevant to this discussion.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Or maybe because this is a Nintendo site we happen to focus on things related to Nintendo (the good and the bad)*

And you find it equal across the general culture? I wouldn't have a problem if it was only coming up because it was a Nintendo discussion. Sheesh.  It should have been painfully obvious from the very beginning that the only issue is when ALL ELSE IS THE SAME Nintendo still gets bashed with more frequency and intensity.

Stop complaining about the general gaming culture here. We know it's bad; that's why we're here instead of there. You're ruining this site by bringing your complaints about it here.

and just because you and alot of other people are perfectly happy in their one bedroom apartment with all the basic necessities, doesn't mean they would't be much happier in that 2 story 4 bedroom with all the bells and whistles including the pool & spa in the back.

Except that with Nintendo platforms there are actually a lot of other benefits.  Such as 1st party games, pioneering technology and extra money in your pocket to buy more games.  So, fit those in to your analogy however you need to.

He was specifically referring to the online system, and it's pretty clear that that's what he was doing. Those points have nothing to do with the online system. They are good things about Nintendo, but irrelevant to this discussion.

You stole my response!! Both of them!!!

but I do have something else to add

*sigh*... I tried...

You don't have to fight for the last word you know.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Broodwars -

You don't have to explain yourself to me, friend.

Insano -

You agree the bashing is bad out there, here it is quite good but I address the bad spots when they pop up.  The only way that could "ruin" things and not preserve them is if people choose to cling harder to their negativity in light of what I say.  That is their choice, and thus, their problem.

Insano/BNM -

No, in his/your analogy illustrated that in order to be happy with one facet of Nintendo's service, your entire "environment" would be mediocre.

BNM -

It's not about the last word, it's trying to give some value and closure to the discussion so we don't DO IT ALL AGAIN next time.  See the difference? Contrary to what must be popular belief since I get ganged up on by the same few people so much, I hate arguments.  I like comradery, community and discussions.  So forgive me if I try to steer things in those directions.

[Chozo Ghost]

I've seen the Shop Channel routinely take between 3-5 minutes to load between 3 pages of content, assuming the service even loads at all (I've seen that shop crash at least 1/5 times I've tried to access it)?  You asked how bad that was when you eventually get your game.  Well, let me put this in context: it routinely takes between 3-5 seconds to load that same amount of content on PSN,

Its possible that could be hardware related as opposed to online. It is no secret that the Wii hardware is weaker than the PS3, so it makes sense that something which loads instantaneously on the PS3 might take longer on the Wii. Before I got a new computer I was using one from 2002 which really struggled and took a long time to load content heavy websites with lots of pictures and bells and whistles, but on this new computer it loads just as fast as it can download basically... and the internet connection was the same so it was the hardware that was the culprit.

This problem will probably be resolved with the Wii U. I don't think there is much Nintendo can do with the Wii, so its just something you will have to deal with for another year and then after that when you move on to the next system you will forget all about these problems.

[NWR_insanolord]

If you hate arguments so much, stop starting them. This was a perfectly civil discussion before you came in here and started berating people for not being satisfied with Nintendo's online infrastructure.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Insano -

Oh yes, incendiary indeed!

Imagine if Battlefield was GameCube exclusive.
Imagine if the PlayStation was the N64.
Imagine if the 360 didn't RROD.
Imagine if the PS3 wasn't $600.
Imagine if the six-axis worked.
Imagine if PSN never got hacked.
Imagine if Kinect games incorporated the controller.

It's nice to learn new bits of history that we didn't before, but it's foolish how game culture obsesses over Nintendo's sins.  While having the presence of mind to regard other companies' mistakes as "oh please, move on already!"

Sh*t happens, enjoy games.

Man, oh man, telling people not to obsess and dwell on negatives for the sake of enjoying games.  I sure did come here picking a fight, eh?

Before I chimed in there wasn't a nice discussion, it was just a lot of people depressing themselves for no reason.  People avoid that mistake so easily regarding other companies' mistakes.  They can be happier and do the same for Nintendo.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Insano/BNM -

No, in his/your analogy illustrated that in order to be happy with one facet of Nintendo's service, your entire "environment" would be mediocre.

Actually my analogy and my entire argument as I have already pointed out is entirely focused on the Online Network. Not on Nintendo and their overall user experience.

Nintendo's support of online is mediocre at best and that is being very generous. end of story.


edit:

Insano -

Oh yes, incendiary indeed!

It's nice to learn new bits of history that we didn't before, but it's foolish how game culture obsesses over Nintendo's sins.  While having the presence of mind to regard other companies' mistakes as "oh please, move on already!"

Sh*t happens, enjoy games.

Man, oh man, telling people not to obsess and dwell on negatives for the sake of enjoying games.  I sure did come here picking a fight, eh?

Before I chimed in there wasn't a nice discussion, it was just a lot of people depressing themselves for no reason.  People avoid that mistake so easily regarding other companies' mistakes.  They can be happier and do the same for Nintendo.

Are you saying that you weren't saying that we were being unfairly harsh to Nintendo or even just being easy on everyone that was not Nintendo and then expect us to not respond.


Then you purposely take a narrow discussion on one topic and try to fit it into a much broader topic to help your own failing argument and expect us not to call you on it.


At the same time you blame the rest of the world for being ****, except for us and a few other places on your exclusive list, but then come and complain to us about it as if we were part of the problem that you said we weren't, but expect us to just roll with it.


Now you take your baited comment and try to sell it back to us as bait-free when I already called it bait in my first reply to it (hover your mouse or just quote it), but it's all good right? You were just trying to cheer us up because we are so... depressed?

[NWR_insanolord]

Insano -

Oh yes, incendiary indeed!

Imagine if Battlefield was GameCube exclusive.
Imagine if the PlayStation was the N64.
Imagine if the 360 didn't RROD.
Imagine if the PS3 wasn't $600.
Imagine if the six-axis worked.
Imagine if PSN never got hacked.
Imagine if Kinect games incorporated the controller.

It's nice to learn new bits of history that we didn't before, but it's foolish how game culture obsesses over Nintendo's sins.  While having the presence of mind to regard other companies' mistakes as "oh please, move on already!"

Sh*t happens, enjoy games.

Man, oh man, telling people not to obsess and dwell on negatives for the sake of enjoying games.  I sure did come here picking a fight, eh?

Before I chimed in there wasn't a nice discussion, it was just a lot of people depressing themselves for no reason.  People avoid that mistake so easily regarding other companies' mistakes.  They can be happier and do the same for Nintendo.

Most of us here don't want to just ignore Nintendo's problems and refuse to talk about them like you do. We like to have discussions about the issues, and talk about how they might fix or improve them. I can't speak for everyone, but in my case I wouldn't say that that would be depressing myself for no reason, because it doesn't depress me, and it's not for no reason. As I and many others have pointed out, we say lots of positive things about Nintendo here too, as well as positive and negative things about other companies.

[Chocobo_Rider]

aaaaand this is why I tried to just say "nevermind - we've all made up our minds" so long ago.

Cuz now it's just putting words in my mouth, ignoring the subject and trying to make things personal.  Anyone enjoying this? Anyone learning anything? Didn't think so.

[BlackNMild2k1]

<-- last word

[Ceric]

I'll bite.

Imagine if Battlefield was GameCube exclusive. (Hey, You got Your Dude-bro in my Mario.  You got Your Mario in My Dude-Bro.  Mario Bro.  The brothers are from anotha motha. *fist Bump*)
Imagine if the PlayStation was the N64. (Wait, it wasn't?)
Imagine if the 360 didn't RROD. (I probably would have heard about the 360 a lot less.)
Imagine if the PS3 wasn't $600. (I think this should really be "Imagine if the PS3 would have kept full BC." Though I would have saved a good chunk of change...)
Imagine if the six-axis worked.(Works much better then the Move.  Honestly it works well.)
Imagine if PSN never got hacked. (Wipeout HD NOOOOOO)
Imagine if Kinect games incorporated the controller. (lol, that be hilarious.  I need to grab this ball back here Noooo I need to hit a button... Wait I'm suppose to run in place while using the analog stick to control where I go... Pretend the controller is a pistol to use it???...  NOOO thats not my arm its a cord.)

I thought these where clever. 

[NWR_Neal]

<-- last word

QFT

In all honesty, I have much greater issues with PSN than anything else. I just like Nintendo more so I'd rather talk about that.

[AlexFinlay]

Coming from someone who's had the wii before boot0 got fixed, uses shop channel alot and has completly soft modded there wii till there is nothing yet.

That idiot complaining about 3-5 minute wait times, mate one update your wii or fix it because yours clearly isn't working very well, 3-5 SECONDS is what i have to wait, which is what i have to wait for my Xbox.

My views:
Yes the wii has no way of online comunication like the Xbox, owait they actually have something u can buy to talk to your mates, HOWEVER they dont have the headset type feature that PS3 has.
Online gaming experience:
never lagged, never been booted out something i can't say about Xbox yet i have to pay for it

Playing mw3 or any other games i ireguarly lagg outof mw3, blackops battlefield and sometimes often completly disconnect from XBL even on a wired connection yet hasn't happoned with my wii.

As Nin *person with some brains* has said, its your opinion YOUR experience, but YOUR experience isn't everyones.

I personally find the wii fine, as not every has to talk to mates to play a single player game.

Conclusion: if you dont like it go sell it because why complain about something 24/7 if your not gonna go do something about it.

PS half the crap you say about nintendo is utter b******t