Author Topic: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"  (Read 46546 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline boggy b

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2005, 10:53:12 AM »
How and why is 'Americanizing' bad? No-one is suggesting (as far as I know) that Nintendo should stop making Mario and co. and make constant shoot-em-ups and action games, only that more games like Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness are a good thing for Nintendo's profits. No-one is denying that Metroid Prime is good, but now everyone wants them to stop making them because that would mean 'Americanizing'. Seems like people are so scared about insulting Nintendo that they'll gladly make no sense to do avoid it!

Not to mention, not every Western-style game in the world is a mindless cash-in or quick money-maker. Most of my favourite games aren't even made in Japan. I have no problem whatsoever with Nintendo making more 'Western' games.  
"And when he gets to heaven,
To St. Peter he will tell:
One more soldier reporting Sir,
I've served my time in hell."

Offline Bill Aurion

  • NWR Forum Loli
  • Score: 34
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2005, 10:59:14 AM »
only that more games like Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness are a good thing for Nintendo's profits.

You mean besides the fact that those two games, while great, haven't sold as well as the kiddddeh Wind Waker and Mario Party in the U.S.?

No-one is denying that Metroid Prime is good, but now everyone wants them to stop making them because that would mean 'Americanizing'

What the hell?  Noone said that...Noone has a problem with companies like Retro and SK making "Americanized" games, since that is what they are...Having Ninty make in-house "Americanized" goods is the thing I (and others) do not want...
~Former Resident Zelda Aficionado and Nintendo Fan~

Offline Deguello

  • Cards makes me ill.
  • Score: 3
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2005, 11:10:20 AM »
Americanizing is a poor choice of word.  Simply because, like the definition of RPGs, no one can pin down exactly what IS Americanized.  Cowboys?  Baseball?  Crappy Stealth shooters?  Tactical Squad-based Squad-Tactics based Tactical Base Squads?

It seems that those sort of people don't want Nintendo to make all these "Americanized" "mature" games.  They already do at times.  They want Nintendo to make nothing but those games.  And they won't be happy if that happens either.  
It's time you saw the future while you still have human eyes.

... and those eyes see a 3DS system code : 2750-1598-3807

Offline Uglydot

  • Jesus
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2005, 12:11:19 PM »
I read this quite a bit late, and oddly enough, my life goes on.  

Offline boggy b

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2005, 01:26:44 PM »
Quote

You mean besides the fact that those two games, while great, haven't sold as well as the kiddddeh Wind Waker and Mario Party in the U.S.?

Since I don't have any sales figures to hand, I can't check that what you're saying is true. The closest I have to it are the lists on users.ign.com of the most owned games. Not exactly the best source in the world, but still reasonably accurate:

1. Metroid Prime 2 Echoes
2. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
3. Resident Evil 4
4. Metroid Prime

5. Super Smash Bros. Melee
6. Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
7. Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
8. Super Mario Sunshine
9. Tales of Symphonia
10. Mario Power Tennis

According to that list, second party 'American' style games are among the most owned (i.e. best selling) GCN games around. Now, like I said, my point never was that Nintendo should stop making 'Japanese' games and only make 'American' games. My point is that increasing the number of them will increase profits. Is that such a difficult concept to grasp? Hell, Nintendo don't even have to make them themselves, as long as they get the exclusivity.

Quote

What the hell?  Noone said that...Noone has a problem with companies like Retro and SK making "Americanized" games, since that is what they are...Having Ninty make in-house "Americanized" goods is the thing I (and others) do not want...

Why? That makes absolutely no sense. If Nintendo themselves had made Prime, it wouldn't have been a bad game. In fact, people would have applauded Nintendo as having made an excellent game. Like I said, people want to avoid critiscizing Nintendo so much that they will not make sense to do so.

"And when he gets to heaven,
To St. Peter he will tell:
One more soldier reporting Sir,
I've served my time in hell."

Offline Dirk Temporo

  • Score: -1
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2005, 02:56:08 PM »
The problem is that companies aren't willing to give Nintendo exclusitivity. Just look at Capcom.

Very off topic: Boggy B, are you a member of a forum called Infoceptor or a forum called BlizzLink by any chance?
"You've had your dream old man. It's time to wake up!"
-Travis Touchdown

Offline MaleficentOgre

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2005, 03:25:26 PM »
that list is soo wrong it hurts.

Offline Myxtika1 Azn

  • The Master of the Fists
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2005, 03:52:17 PM »
Please explain to me how the 3d  Metroids are 'American' style games.  Is it because of the first-person view?  Because from what I can tell, the two Prime games both play like the other Metroid games except with a 3d view.  In terms of gameplay, everything is Nintendo.  Game design is Nintendo.  Level design? Maybe not.  Graphics style? Maybe not (looking at the new Zelda, however, I don't doubt Nintendo's skills in that area).

So, a game is an 'American' styled game because it was developed in America?  So if Shigeru Myamoto came to the US to produce the new Zelda game, does that make it 'American'?  Silicon Knights developed MGS: The Twin Snakes.   Does that make it 'American'?  (I know SK is in Canada, but still).  Keep in mind that BOTH of these western companies had to consult heavily with the Japanese companies on these games.

Now, was Metroid Prime 2: Echoes developed in America? Yes.  Was it an 'American'  styled game? No.
500 years ago, I shook the Pillars of Heaven.  Why should I fear a runt like you?

Offline The Omen

  • Forum Fascist
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2005, 04:29:41 PM »
Quote

Now, was Metroid Prime 2: Echoes developed in America? Yes. Was it an 'American' styled game? No.


Wrong.  It absolutely is.   Japan in general shuns first person 'shooters'.  You can say all you want that Metroid isn't a shooter, but it looks like one, and in many instances plays like one.  The fact that there have been two Metroid games for the GC should already show you they're americanized,as historically, the Metroid series sells a lot more in America.  
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline Savior

  • I want one too!
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2005, 06:37:36 PM »
Quote

Ninty make in-house "Americanized" goods is the thing I (and others) do not want...


Well thats not what Steven Kent wants. Kent wants Nintendo to add more American developers that would make American Style games. So you actually agree with the article then?  
The Savior Returns Late 2005

Offline Myxtika1 Azn

  • The Master of the Fists
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2005, 11:06:29 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: The Omen
Wrong.  It absolutely is.   Japan in general shuns first person 'shooters'.  You can say all you want that Metroid isn't a shooter, but it looks like one, and in many instances plays like one.  The fact that there have been two Metroid games for the GC should already show you they're americanized,as historically, the Metroid series sells a lot more in America.


Is that so?  What are the many instances that you are referring to?  Maybe you're talking about the the times where you have to fight Space Pirates which, if I remember correctly, is only a small percent of the game.

I don't know of any first-person games that have boss fights the way that two Primes do.  I'm not saying that there aren't any.  I'm just saying that I do not know of any.  Of the 3rdperson games that I've played, there are no boss fights at all.  If there are, are there more depth in the battles than in Prime?  Hell, even fights against minor Prime enemies is more in depth than other games.

As I was trying to say before, I don't care if the game is in first person.  The gameplay is still 100% Nintendo, that makes it an Japanese style game and not American.
500 years ago, I shook the Pillars of Heaven.  Why should I fear a runt like you?

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2005, 05:49:49 AM »
Myxtika: Metroid as a series never appealed to the Japanese. Even back in the days of 2d the Metroid games sold much better in the US than in Japan. From what I've heard the Japanese don't like open ended gameplay and prefer more strict "rails" in their games. In the west it's the other way around as long as you're able to do all kinds of silly stuff with your freedom (i.e. no consequences).

Offline Noble~Feather

  • DS Sp@Mm3r
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2005, 05:56:00 AM »
... Worldwide, Xbox is in third... and Microsoft actually loses money with every one that's sold... they are EASILY in 3rd place. I'd love to see Microsoft die the next generation. >

This guy is an idiot. Really.

GBA obsolete? Pffft.

I've heard the name Steven Kent before though... where does he work?
This message has been approved by Noble Feather.

Offline boggy b

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2005, 07:50:02 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Noble~Feather
... Worldwide, Xbox is in third... and Microsoft actually loses money with every one that's sold... they are EASILY in 3rd place. I'd love to see Microsoft die the next generation. >

No, XBox is beating GCN now. GCN was outselling XBox at the end of 2003. We're now at the end of 2004. For several months this year, XBox had overtaken PS2 in the US and Europe.
"And when he gets to heaven,
To St. Peter he will tell:
One more soldier reporting Sir,
I've served my time in hell."

Offline Noble~Feather

  • DS Sp@Mm3r
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2005, 08:02:33 AM »
No, Xbox is in 3rd still. They're barely in third though. They're almost at 2, but not quite.
This message has been approved by Noble Feather.

Offline matt oz

  • APPLES!
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2005, 08:13:44 AM »
For the last time, people, Steven Kent did not say the GBA was obsolete.  He said the ORIGINAL MODEL of the GBA is obsolete.  Meaning the GBA SP, the current model, is the one Nintendo is focusing on, which is true.

I don't understand how so many people can comment on an article they so obviously have not even read...
Wii Code:  7894 - 4898 - 7716 - 3649

Offline boggy b

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2005, 10:38:08 AM »
Wrong. XBox is in second place:

Sega Dreamcast: 9,000,000
Sony Playstation 2: 73,000,000
Microsoft Xbox: 16,000,000
Nintendo Gamecube: 15,500,000
http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=14306

Not by much, but XBox are in second.
"And when he gets to heaven,
To St. Peter he will tell:
One more soldier reporting Sir,
I've served my time in hell."

Offline Myxtika1 Azn

  • The Master of the Fists
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #92 on: January 21, 2005, 11:47:17 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Myxtika: Metroid as a series never appealed to the Japanese. Even back in the days of 2d the Metroid games sold much better in the US than in Japan. From what I've heard the Japanese don't like open ended gameplay and prefer more strict "rails" in their games. In the west it's the other way around as long as you're able to do all kinds of silly stuff with your freedom (i.e. no consequences).


Metroid's open-endedness (is that a word?) is the same as Zelda's.  Both games have places that you cannot reach until you get an item from somewhere else.  Zelda is also very popular in Japan and sells very well, so I don't think open-ended gamepay is the probem.
500 years ago, I shook the Pillars of Heaven.  Why should I fear a runt like you?

Offline Hemmorrhoid

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2005, 12:01:47 PM »
dreamcast sold 9million? not bad for a console that failed
LZ 2005

Offline The Omen

  • Forum Fascist
  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2005, 07:02:59 PM »
Quote

Is that so? What are the many instances that you are referring to? Maybe you're talking about the the times where you have to fight Space Pirates which, if I remember correctly, is only a small percent of the game.

I don't know of any first-person games that have boss fights the way that two Primes do. I'm not saying that there aren't any. I'm just saying that I do not know of any. Of the 3rdperson games that I've played, there are no boss fights at all. If there are, are there more depth in the battles than in Prime? Hell, even fights against minor Prime enemies is more in depth than other games.


Understand, I'm not saying Metroid IS a FPS, I'm saying it appears to be a FPS, and in some instances, a few, as you pointed out, it is.  

Appearance is all that matters in this world, unfortunately.
 
"If a man comes to the door of poetry untouched by the madness of the muses, believing that technique alone will make him a great poet, he and his sane compositions never reach perfection, but are utterly eclipsed by the inspired madman." Socrates

Offline KDR_11k

  • boring person
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2005, 09:00:58 PM »
Myxtika1: Zelda includes conversation with NPCs and is much more linearly structured than Metroid. In Metroid you're thrown into a world and pretty much told "find out what you have to do", most Zelda games have an introduction of sorts. In WW you run around, witness Aryll being captured and from there on you're pushed from dungeon to dungeon for the longest part of the game as the story unfolds. In the 2d Metroids you just stand on your spawn platform or ship and the player takes control, only realizing what he must do by observing the obstacles in the environment. The next piece of story is usually how the planet or facility blows up.

Offline couchmonkey

  • I tye dyed my Wii and I love it
  • Score: 2
    • View Profile
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2007, 10:09:53 AM »
I was checking up on Kent on Google and came upon this old gem.  Let us laugh at Kent and his foolish claims!  Seriously, this is interesting because Kent is telling us how to fix Nintendo, and Nintendo has arguably fixed itself, but in a different way than Kent (or almost anybody else) envisioned.

Quote


1. Abandon the ‘belle of the ball’ mentality.


I think Kent had the right basic idea here.  It was time for Nintendo to admit it had made a lot of mistakes.  Interestingly, Nintendo came to that conclusion even harder anybody else: not only did Nintendo conclude that it made a lot of mistakes, it concluded that even trying to beat Sony and Microsoft was a mistake.

Quote


2. Forget the bottom line.
...
That is a nearly steady drop of 50 percent from one generation to the
next.
The typical Nintendo response to this is something along the line of
their console business always remaining profitable. It’s a good and
persuasive response. Even as Sony strangled Nintendo in all three world
markets in the last year of the original PlayStation, Nintendo managed
to make money with N64 while Sony leaked like a sieve.
The problem is that if Nintendo’s share of the market keeps getting
smaller, the next generation will not be profitable.


The sentiment is correct, and I have to admit I strongly agreed with Kent on this point when I first read the article - Nintendo needed to do something about its shrinking marketshare.  What Kent, myself, and most other people failed to predict was that Nintendo would find a way to improve it's marketshare without sacrificing the bottom line.  Nice work.


Quote

3. Know your market and stick to it.

Kent is totally wrong and right on this point.  Not sticking to old markets has turned out to be a boon for Nintendo, however, Kent is right in the "know your market" sense.  I think Nintendo has put a lot of thought into reaching out to the new markets and is reaping the benefits.  One could also argue that Nintendo's "market" is the all-ages/family "market" and Wii attacks that market head-on.

Quote

4. Americanize, Americanize, Americanize

The bottom has dropped out of the Japanese video game market. It
shrank by one-third in 2001 alone.

Ooopsie.  This turned out to be Kent's most incorrect suggestion, and it also demonstrates just how much Nintendo DS surprised everyone and turned the industry around.  Non-gaming is the new gaming in Japan, and it's spreading to other territories.  Reading this quote and looking at the initial sales figures, it's clear that Wii is going to own Japan.

Quote

5. Keep doing what you do right

As angry and pessimistic as some gamers have become about Nintendo,
other insiders believe that Nintendo is doing many things exactly
right. “Nintendo is listening to a good mixture of customers and game
developers,” says Richard Doherty, research director of
Envisioneering.

This section is a bit of a mixed bag.  Doherty's comment above seems to be right on the money, and Kent goes on to point out how staying the course with Pokemon in spite of critics that said it was a fad paid off.  Sounds like exactly what Nintendo is doing with DS and Wii.

Then he goes on to say that Wind Waker's style was a great idea and creates two different Zelda series: a lighthearted one and a more adult one...starts to seem like a bit of rambling to me.  I guess his point is that when Nintendo gets it right, it gets it really right, and that's true.

Quote

6. Stop with the mid-course corrections and hold to the basics

What did Sony and Microsoft do that was so brilliant with the launches
of their first console systems? Nothing. But even when things went
wrong, they kept to their game and that made a difference.

I think GameCube had problems straight from the start, and that's what Kent is noticing here.  Nintendo was still a bit stunned from Sony handing N64's arse to Nintendo on a platter, and GameCube was Nintendo's mixed-up reaction to that: It's a purple lunchbox with the best survival horror games.  Nintendo refocused itself since then.

Quote

...The same thing has happened with GBA. First GBA SP’s clamshell
design was to make it more adult-friendly. Then DS materialized, and
GBA SP turns out to have been a kids system all along.
Nintendo needs to pick a strategy and stick to it; and in no area is
that more important than in handhelds...

This is Nintendo's early "three pillars" rhetoric getting mixed up with Nintendo's actual strategy.  The strategy was to come up with ways to sell DS to all kinds of new audiences by taking advantage of its new interface, and it worked.  GBA was kept on the market to supply Nintendo with money while it tried to get DS off the ground, and to give Nintendo a fallback point if the experiment failed.  In the end, Nintendo's strategy worked brilliantly.


Quote

7. Either do Revolution right or don’t do Revolution at all
...
First, it’s time for Nintendo to discover the Internet...

Done.  Some people aren't satisfied, but let's be honest: if anything, online gaming is going to be secondary to the Wii interface in terms of success.

Quote

...Next, it’s time for Nintendo executives to listen to what their
customers tell them. People like pretty graphics. People want the same
games with better graphics. Nintendo executives say they want
Revolution to be as revolutionary as DS. Fine, but make sure the
graphics are hugely improved...

LOL.  I know there are still graphics advocates out there, but DS sales have proven once again that they're totally irrelevant to a handheld, and so far Wii sales prove that they're not relevant to home consoles either.

Quote

...Not everyone agrees with this. Richard Doherty compliments Nintendo
for not trying to “create a super computer in a $300 game box.”
This, he says, is what will separate Nintendo from Microsoft and Sony...

That Richard Doherty is a smart guy.  Anybody know who he is?

Quote

...The truth is that if good old “Madden NFL” looks better and plays
better on PlayStation 3 and NextBox, Maddeneers are going to buy those
systems. And, for the record, “Madden NFL 2004” was the best
selling game of 2003...

Okay, so he couldn't have known that it was going to play completely different on Wii.

Quote

...Since that is not going to happen, Nintendo needs to launch on time
with good software and a strong proprietary library. If Microsoft
launches in 2005, Nintendo should launch in 2005 as well...

I kept advocating the earliest possible launch and I still think it would have helped a little, but due to Wii's totally different take on video games, the launch timing was not that important.

Quote

...Finally Nintendo needs to have enough hardware at launch. Avoid
shortages—real or trumped up—and fill the channel...

Kent's right from the "you need as much supply as possible" perspective - that was a big problem for PS3, and it may have cost Sony some Christmas sales.  However, shortages are typical for system launches, and given that Wii seems to have a relatively good supply, the shortages can't be that bad of a sign.
That's my opinion, not yours.
Now Playing: The Adventures of Link, Super Street Fighter 4, Dragon Quest IX

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
RE: Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2007, 10:55:03 AM »
GameCube shortages were much worse, and it was only out in 2 game markets by this time of year.
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline UncleBob

  • (PATRON)
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: 98
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2007, 12:13:27 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Procession
Madden and porn are two words that should NEVER be used in same sentence.


heh... heh...
Just some random guy on the internet who has a different opinion of games than you.

Offline willie1234

  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
RE:Steven Kent "Pulls an IGN"
« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2007, 06:29:34 PM »
" GameCube shortages were much worse"

gamecube didn't even sell out on launch day did it? I don't remember any shortages - are you talking about other regions?

as to Kent's launching at the same time as MS, I think Nintendo was right to wait out Sony.  They would have just gone farther to copy Nintendo if given the chance.  They already did, but had to shoe horn motion sensing into their system.

I was/am surprised by the Wii shortages though.  Maybe it is selling much better than predicted, but I would have thought that by using hardware similar to the gamecube the production would have been faster.