Topic: What's MS' next move with the XBox 360?

[Kairon]

Well, the PS3 has outsold the XBox 360 for the last two NPD months, and MS' little console-that-breaks is also rapidly losing ground to the PS3 in Europe. They actually just dropped the price for the XBox 360 in europe such that the arcade is cheaper than the Wii!

So what's MS' next move? Some say the current sales slump is because of console shortages... ehh...

Another theory could be that MS is stock-piling XBox 360's for the GTA IV launch. Will they try to bundle the console with the game for people who want to buy a console just for GTA?

Or... could MS be gearing up for a price drop in anticipation of GTA IV?

Do you guys think a price drop is likely coming for the XBox 360 this Spring? Maybe this summer/fall? And what should Nintendo do about it? And what can Sony do about it to maintain their momentum and not fall behind again?

[animecyberrat]

It reminds of of Dreamcast all over again, price drop after price drop, still no sales.

[DAaaMan64]

It reminds of of Dreamcast all over again, price drop after price drop, still no sales.

Way to early to call that.  I'm sure the DreamCast was doing terrible by this point in it's life. 

As for what MS should do?  3 things:

-  Make a new controller with "waggle"
-  release a super scope clone
-  1,000,000 Fusion Frenzy games

You know it is actually kind of hard to compete with a console that really has no advantages over yours but sells anyway. :/  I also doubt they have anything big ready to be release that could do anything in addition to the GTA launch. And at this time, price drops don't do anything.

Hmmm... They need buy and permanently own a big name. Like Call of Duty.  That's what they should do.

[RABicle]

Microsoft will start paying people to own the broken Xboxes that are piling up in their warehouses.

[Flames_of_chaos]

Probably try to make it a Wii clone, first it was a expensive PS2 clone(as in trying to emulate the PS2's success) that broke more.

[Deguello]

"So what's MS' next move? Some say the current sales slump is because of console shortages... ehh..."

LOL Console Shortage?  How?  I see piles of them everyday.  If Nintendo gets criticism for having a legitimate shortage and can nearly double 360's totals each month, there's no way in hell MS is having a shortage and barely beating the in-stock all day long PS3.

[Ceric]

Make a new revision that is rock solid hardware wise?
Release what is finished in Too Human and split it up to 6 games.

[Nick DiMola]

I think MS just needs to release a few more family friendly games to grab some of the new market share Nintendo has opened up. Otherwise, I would say they don't really need to do anything because they seem to be appeasing the hardcore market quite well here in America, and quite frankly I think that is enough to carry them.

[NWR_insanolord]

I think MS just needs to release a few more family friendly games to grab some of the new market share Nintendo has opened up. Otherwise, I would say they don't really need to do anything because they seem to be appeasing the hardcore market quite well here in America, and quite frankly I think that is enough to carry them.

There's no point in Microsoft making family friendly games to go after the Wii, that's a lost cause. They should stick with what's working, appealing to the "hardcore" gamers.

[Nick DiMola]

I think MS just needs to release a few more family friendly games to grab some of the new market share Nintendo has opened up. Otherwise, I would say they don't really need to do anything because they seem to be appeasing the hardcore market quite well here in America, and quite frankly I think that is enough to carry them.

There's no point in Microsoft making family friendly games to go after the Wii, that's a lost cause. They should stick with what's working, appealing to the "hardcore" gamers.

Probably true, but if the games are low effort, low impact games, why not? There is little to lose and they could at least advertise that they are hitting that market, and fool a few parents into buying one for their kids.

[animecyberrat]

What they NEED to do is fix the stupid problems long enough for people to forget there was a problem. My friend who got his at launch, is now on his third 360! I mean he is pretty stubborn too, he knows they're gonna crap out on him but he keeps trying anyways. Funny thing is the last time it broke, he just bought a Wii and Guitar Hero 3 and said **** it, but he got another 360 anyways. I only have 1 friend who still has a working 360, it is an elite, he got it the day the elite came out so it should be close to crapping out any day now.

Maybe MS can keep pretending like there isn't a problem but some people once a console breaks twice they give up.

[Flames_of_chaos]

I think MS just needs to release a few more family friendly games to grab some of the new market share Nintendo has opened up. Otherwise, I would say they don't really need to do anything because they seem to be appeasing the hardcore market quite well here in America, and quite frankly I think that is enough to carry them.

There's no point in Microsoft making family friendly games to go after the Wii, that's a lost cause. They should stick with what's working, appealing to the "hardcore" gamers.

Well for Microsoft, Japan is the biggest lost cause and arguably more than half of Europe. Traditionally they need to cling on America which they have a strong base but the Wii is almost neck and neck with Microsoft in amount of home console sales in America (life time totals). Microsoft made some shots at casuals with Scene it!, fusion frenzy 2(horrible attempt) and Viva Pinata Party Animals (another one that bombed fast). I heard that even when Microsoft dropped the price of the 360 in Europe with the Core/Arcade being cheaper than the Wii I don't think it even dented the Wii's momentum in Europe or didn't make a big impact.

Edit: Also a lot of people on NeoGaf has been reporting that on their Falcon chipset 360 Elites theres an HDMI port failure and those people were only able to get a signal if they used the component cables.

[animecyberrat]

MS tried to get into Japan, they failed. They lost Europe and are losing America fast. A year ago I saw 360 everywhere I went, and was bombard by those annoying "Get a free Xbox 360" tv commercials. Now most stores that used to have big 360 displayed are all displaying PS3 and Wii instead. And those same TV commercials now advertise a Free Laptop instead cuz they learned the 360 wasn't a good sales pitch anymore. To tell you the truth, I even see more commercials for Wii than I do 360 now and that never happened last gen.

[Maverick]

To be honest the only place that I hear the 360 is in trouble is on the interwebs.  In real life, everyone I know that has jumped into the current-gen with only one console has done so with the 360.  I have all three consoles, but I only have two friends with a PS3, and one of those has a Wii as well.

Then again I'm not really a social butterfly so for all I know everyone out of my circle of friends is waggling and six axising their way to success.

[Pale]

I think we'll see a price cut for GTA.  They'll then ride that as long as possible without the PS3 catching up too much.

As soon as the PS3 hits a certain point in the US, you'll see them unveil the next system.  Jumping the gun early is the only reason  they have the foothold they do this gen.  There is no reason for them to change that strategy.

You'll see them really focus on the stability of the new hardware, because the best way to break that stigma is to stop selling the product that has it.  You'll also see them commit heavily to a hard drive and digital content.  They had Live Arcade first, but both Sony and Nintendo have arguably taken that crown away.  The XNA stuff we've seen is a hint of what's to come there.

This November will be 3 years for the 360.  Going by the five year cycles, that is only a little bit early to start showing the new one.  I fully expect to see it E3/Summer 09.

[Smash_Brother]

I can't think of anything MS could do now to pull this one out.

The Wii is stomping the hell out of them and if even the PS3 is starting to gain on them, they're definitely in trouble.

I think a Wiimote clone controller would be too little too late and any attempt to engage the "family" sector from them has always crashed and burned.

[BranDonk Kong]

There actually have been 2 supply issues - first is that no one in China works for 2 weeks during Chinese New Year, which actually hurt production, and second is that they are getting ready to release a new 60GB model (replacing the current "Premium/Pro" system), and are no longer making the 20GB HDDs. You'll see in the next couple weeks or so...

[NWR_pap64]

I think a Wiimote clone controller would be too little too late and any attempt to engage the "family" sector from them has always crashed and burned.

lol Viva Piñata...Although, I heard Scene It was going well for them.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the system constantly dying could be affecting its popularity.

No one wants to buy something that has a very high chance of dying, even if its brand spanking new. So the red ring of death issue could be scaring off potential customers aways...

[Plugabugz]

I went to the Play.com Live thing here at Wembley Stadium, yesterday. (Karlie? Greg? Did either of you go?) Despite their losing sales, Microsoft had about 60% of the floor space to themselves. Throwing money at it (console RRP's or floorspace) won't solve the problem, but it does make it look like nothing is wrong.

Seeing two bands rock it out on Rock Band and Guitar Hero... then wait for the 360 to "warm up" was funny though.

Despite the event being described as "being able to play games that aren't released yet", i only played Sega Superstars Tennis and a little bit of Haze. Nintendo didn't show up.

[mastro]

The problem with Xbox is the variety of games suck. Every time MS says they will fix and realse a better variety they go crazy and start over hyping the next big shooter. They say they want mass appeal but they only cater to the niche.

I kinda agree that they will hype up games like GTA4 and Too human then announce the next console. I personally can not wait for the day when a console last 10 years. Hoping this generation will become that but with 3 consoles I just have a hard time thinking that will ever happen. I just can't see much more noticeable improvement in game quality with better consoles.

It seems like console makers are starting to sell brand and hype instead of hardware and games.

[NWR_pap64]

Yeah, as much as I love my XBOX 360 I feel a tad annoyed at the majority of the titles being FPS games. I do enjoy them, but I would love developers to be more daring and make new things.

What I find baffling is that people whine and bitch about the Wii getting nothing but mini game collections, but mum's the word about the 360's lack of variety.

I know some people will say "Well, FPS games offer more challenge and depth than mini game collections", and I agree with them, but its still an issue nonetheless. Even the PS3 has more varied titles.

This could also be an issue as to why the 360 isn't doing as well as it should.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

It's true, there ARE too many FPS games on the 360.  I don't even LIKE shooters, but somehow I've wound up with BioShock and The Orange Box.  Shame on the 360 for enticing me with games based on Westerns and the Civil War, only to have them turn out to silly old FPSes.  FPS's.  Uh.  FPSi.  Whatever.

[Chozo Ghost]

The logical move may be for MS to withdraw from the video game console market. I thought the whole point was to stop Sony, and they seem to have failed now that Blu-Ray has apparently won the format war.

I don't see them withdrawing, though, but it does make logical sense because the Xbox is not a profitable product compared to their other products like Windoze. Since they're going to stay in the market, the Xbox should probably tie more into the computing market where they are their strongest. I expect in the future the Xbox will run some form of Windows Vista and you'll be able to hook printers and just about any other computing peripheral up to it. Gaming will still be a big factor with it, but the main focus will probably switch over to computing.

[NWR_pap64]

I just discovered an irony in all of this...The XBOX 360 is doing poorly in console sales, but software sales are fantastic. Yet the Wii is doing greatly, but games are slowly selling.

If you check the charts, you'll see a lot of 360 games. If a game is multiplatform the 360 version always sells the best.

Weird, no?

[Plugabugz]

360 gamers, generally, know what the internet is and know about the release dates. So everyone buys them all at the same time 1 minute past midnight.
Wii gamers, generally, get on with their daily lives and pay the bills. Then they hear about brain training, go "OH!" and buy it, 2 years after release.

[IceCold]

Microsoft has blown its load. Well, there's GTA but it's multiplatform. At this point, most of the people who want a 360 have bought one..

On another note, what's going on with Too Human? It's the only game/series (well, other than the NHL games) that I'm interested in on the 360, almost against my rational mind. But I loved Eternal Darkness.

[Ceric]

I thought the software attach Ratio for the Wii was at the very least 2 games for every 1 console.  Plus if the 360 really does have a great attach ratio + Live it could be profitable without selling more consoles.

[NWR_insanolord]

Last I read the Wii's attach rate is more like 4 or 5 per console.

[Luigi Dude]

According to recent reports the Wii's software ratio is 5 games per system compared to the 360's 8 games per system.  But it's said that the Wii's ratio has been rising pretty fast recently meaning the Wii could catch up to the 360 in the future.

Which makes sense, there wasn't much on the Wii until last fall really.  Since the Wii has gotten a lot more games and more higher quality titles in the last 6 months compared to what was on the system before, that would explain why the Wii ratio has been rising faster recently.

[NWR_insanolord]

Yeah, it's not really fair to compare the attach rate of a console that's been out for a year and a half to one that's been out for two and a half.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Wii attach rate is going to get at least 1 game higher now that Smash Bros. is out.

As for MS, what more can they do? They are clearly the FPS console of choice and they have that locked up good, but there is a lot more to gaming than FPS games.

[NWR_insanolord]

The Wii attach rate is going to get at least 1 game higher now that Smash Bros. is out.

As for MS, what more can they do? They are clearly the FPS console of choice and they have that locked up good, but there is a lot more to gaming than FPS games.

There's a big enough segment of "hardcore" gamers who would disagree with that statement to keep MS going.

[Nick DiMola]

The Wii attach rate is going to get at least 1 game higher now that Smash Bros. is out.

As for MS, what more can they do? They are clearly the FPS console of choice and they have that locked up good, but there is a lot more to gaming than FPS games.

There's a big enough segment of "hardcore" gamers who would disagree with that statement to keep MS going.

Agreed 100%.

[Ceric]

An Attach rate of 8 games per system is still excellent even with a year lead.  Especially at the higher prices.

[BranDonk Kong]

The simple answer is there are more games for the 360, and they aren't 90% PS2 ports with waggle thrown in. Even with the Wii having a larger install base in almost every territory, the 360 has a year's worth of games more than the Wii and PS3.

[Adrock]

Am I the only person who doesn't think 360 is in trouble? I think they're still in a pretty good position. PS3 outsold X360 two months in a row? Big deal, 360 dominated PS3 every month before that. I don't think there's anything to worry about, not yet anyway.

Microsoft heavily contributed to Sony no longer being market leader and even if Sony pull off a miracle and becomes market leader by the end of this generation, they won't ever have the lead they had the past few generations. The fact that Microsoft is not only still making consoles, but doing well in the market is proof that they're making progress.

[Kairon]

Yeah, MS isn';t in trouble, actually, it appeaers that they're actually starting to earn money! However, one does have to wodner as to when the next price cut will come and what else they have up their sleeve.

[Deguello]

Microsoft still hasn't made one red cent on video games.  The cost of them "doing well in the market" is somewhere between $6 and $8 billion dollars.  They've only had 3 or 4 out of 27 or so quarters actually be profitable, compared to Sony's consistent (until recently) profit and Nintendo's RECORD profits.

Think of it this way, imagine a woman hacking her face to pieces through plastic surgery in order to look better than a slightly aging beautiful actress and a young beauty queen.  She may end up with comparable looks, but she's killing herself doing it, and those scars will have to heal later.  Imagine if Microsoft does wrest control of the market.  They'll have to make up those billions somehow, and they're already charging more for games this gen.

Microsoft APPEARS to be doing well, but under the surface it's a different story, no matter how many games get a 9.0 from enthusiast press sites.  The attach rate is impressive, but consider that total games sales will remain under the N64's, due to the complete lack of appeal in Japan and limited appeal in Europe.  I don't seem to remember the press writing many congratulatory editorials for the N64, do you?

They appear to have met the threshold for outright purchasing marketshare at the cost of their own blood, and it appears to be a stagnant figure.

[ShyGuy]

The solution? $80 games next-gen. You heard it here first. Let's mine this hardcore niche until it's miniscule.

[Ceric]

I think if Microsoft can just keep there attach rate up and have good solid in-house titles.  The could turn to true yearly profitability.  You'll have to ignore the earlier debt though.

[Chozo Ghost]

They'll have to make up those billions somehow,

Actually, they don't. Regardless of how unprofitable the Xbox division is, Microsoft is still extremely profitable in its other divisions. You say they lost 6-8 billion on the xbox as if this is a big deal to them; it's not. A 6-8 billion loss would be a serious issue to Nintendo and perhaps Sony, but it doesn't make much difference to Microsoft.

If you need evidence of this, consider how they are trying right now to purchase Yahoo for like 100 billion dollars right now. They basically have 300 billion dollars that they can either spend or just throw away without any care in the world. So a loss of 6-8 billion on the xbox is absolutely nothing from their point of view. Plus as I said, they are profitable anyways thanks to Vista and Office and so forth.

[Luigi Dude]

But the big question remain, how long does Microsoft want to continue wasting money on the videogame industry if they're getting nothing in return.  Microsoft's whole business plan is built around dominating what they're in.  The whole point of the original X-Box was to make them a well known brand, while the 360 was to put Microsoft in a position that would allow them to become the market leader with their 3rd system.

Now this might have worked since Sony screwed up in 2006, but because of Nintendo regaining the industry with the Wii, Microsoft's plans have been set back.  Microsoft thought it would be a 2 console race between the 360 and PS3, which would allow them to come in at least second and with a stronger present then the original Xbox had.  But since Nintendo is dominating the industry and gaining alot of the people that had a PS2 last gen, Microsoft is stuck fighting Sony for second place by appealing to mostly Western gamers with nothing but Shooters and Sports games.

Of course Microsofts biggest problem is they've failed in Europe where the Wii and PS3 have over taken them and they're non existent in Japan.  So all they have now is North America where Nintendo will over take them this summer and the PS3 is slowly gaining on them.  Since it's clear Microsoft doesn't have a good chance at becoming market leader with they're 3rd console, what is their longterm plan going to become now.

Even though Microsoft has billions to spend, eventually the shareholders are going to get angry that they've gained nothing from the videogame market and continue to lose billions more with each passing year.

[Deguello]

They'll have to make up those billions somehow,

Actually, they don't. Regardless of how unprofitable the Xbox division is, Microsoft is still extremely profitable in its other divisions. You say they lost 6-8 billion on the xbox as if this is a big deal to them; it's not. A 6-8 billion loss would be a serious issue to Nintendo and perhaps Sony, but it doesn't make much difference to Microsoft.

If you need evidence of this, consider how they are trying right now to purchase Yahoo for like 100 billion dollars right now. They basically have 300 billion dollars that they can either spend or just throw away without any care in the world. So a loss of 6-8 billion on the xbox is absolutely nothing from their point of view. Plus as I said, they are profitable anyways thanks to Vista and Office and so forth.

No, they DO have to make those billions back up, or the shareholders will lynch them.  I am by no means saying MICROSOFT ITSELF will just implode, but their Home and Entertainment division is that much in debt, and you can't just throw billions into a division and get no profit forever.  Again imagine Microsoft dominating the industry. Would they continue their current practices which have them in the hole?  Do you think they'd NEVER want to profit from videogames, ever?

[oohhboy]

The offer for Yahoo as far as I am certain was a little over 40 Billion USD. Keep in mind, most of that isn't cash. It gets paid out by draining MS stock value. MS's market cap is massive, but it isn't cash and you can't spend it as such.

As deguello has stated, they can't continue losing money in the H & E division. It drains the companies overall profit. It bunts the share price and shareholders directly lose money from less dividends. I am actually surprised this adventure has been allowed to continue for this long.

MS must make a profit and do it consistently. Their current business model works, if they control the market. But videogames are a luxury. As is they could make profit short term, but they will trash the market in the process.

Overpowered, expensive hardware. Exploding production costs. Terrible quality control. Massive advertising costs. Blockbuster mentality. Expensive games. Patches.

[animecyberrat]

I think they are in trouble just because everyone I know who has a 360 has gotten that red ring of death and 2 out of the 3 people I know who bought 360's also have Wii's and 1 has all three.

[Chozo Ghost]

Microsoft does plan to dominate the industry eventually, but as Luigi Dude said that may not happen with their 3rd system as they hoped. Even if they don't reach first place they may be profitable by then, and the stage will be set for them to reach 1st place with their 4th system in the distant future.

So no, they're not planning on bleeding money on it forever, but they can hold out for as long as it takes. With the massive amount of money they have its bound to happen sooner or later.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Companies wanting to dominate an industry? Unheard of!

[Deguello]

Chozo, they're in second place and already in debt.  The reason they are in debt is also the reason they're in second place, because they're bleeding themselves just to get a foothold, and this foothold is smaller than the N64's.  Imagine how much a first place berth would cost, because they'd probably have to buy out Japan.  It's a fool's game.  And "holding out for as long as it takes" is also believing that Microsoft's shareholders will all be indefinitely on board with the idea if it continues to bleed billions.  Long term goals are nice, but you gotta seethe writing on the wall, too, ya know?

Gaming has been an absolute disaster for Microsoft.  And probably disastrous for the industry as a whole, because they seem to be inspiring Acer to launch a console and causing EA to buy everybody up because MS forced HD on everybody, which raised dev costs, which raised prices which drove down profits (EA's profits turned into losses just on 360 software).  Now everybody's consolidating.  And what's to stop EA from launching a console themselves?  That might throw a wrench into Microsoft's long term goals too.     The industry moves too fast for such long term plans.

[oohhboy]

I am sure as a company, they can hold on indefinitely. But I don't think they have infinite patience. By the end of this generation it will be ten years since the XBOX. Billions in the hole. Single digit number of quarters of profit that only happened when the stars align with things like Halo which blows it's load on day one. This is after nickel and diming everything.

Their idea of profit is to increase prices. Crank up that revenue. Who cares about how ghastly inefficient the back room is. Who cares if you have to rebuild the same machine over and over again.

There is no next move for the 360. There is the status quo. Through their own marketing and policies they have cornered themselves for this generation. The user base is set. It flooded with shooters because that is almost the only thing they buy.

People say Nintendo gamers only buy Nintendo games. That might be a problem if the majority of Nintendo games were of one genera. But it isn't. They make games of all types. The Nintendo brand is something the average person can trust to provide a good game to almost everybody. MS is head shot land. By cultivating more open gamers, Nintendo help themselves and third parties.

MS just have to wait out this generation until they can reset for the next. Fire every single executive they have. Start hiring people who can actually use their brains and not their e-wangs. Every single one of them right now are technologist hacks. Tim Allens of the computer world. MOAR POWER HOHOHOHO.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

LAFFO!

[animecyberrat]

Well I'll tell you what, I *WANTED* a 360, just for Crackdown, but seeing how unreliable they turned out to be, I held off, now until they can go I don't know six months without any reports of them breaking down, then I will consider getting one again. What they need to do is FIX the damn bugs. I know too many people that are on their 2nd and 3rd system.

[Luigi Dude]

Well I'll tell you what, I *WANTED* a 360, just for Crackdown, but seeing how unreliable they turned out to be, I held off, now until they can go I don't know six months without any reports of them breaking down, then I will consider getting one again. What they need to do is FIX the damn bugs. I know too many people that are on their 2nd and 3rd system.

Yeah, the red rings of death are also what hurt's Microsofts chances of ever being number one.  This isn't just some problem that only us on the message boards no about, it's everywhere.  Even average people who hardly know anything about what's going on in the industry know about it, since they know people this has happened too.

This has really destroyed Microsofts image and quite frankly, I don't see how they'll recover.  When they launch their next system how are people going to be able to trust Microsoft this time?

[animecyberrat]

they forget, look at PS2.

[GoldenPhoenix]

they forget, look at PS2.

Good point, PS2 was a mess as well when it came to faulty systems.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The internet is more vocal about hardware failures this time around.

[oohhboy]

While I do remember the PS1 and PS2 had issues, they were never this wide spread. Also people didn't have to deal with Indian call centers back then. For the PS1, it was bad lasers. PS2 it is still bad lasers.

The 360 has bad lasers, cheap drives which will put rings in your disks if you looked at it wrong. Then there is RROD. While the rise of the internet has made failures more apparent, considering even mainstream press picked up on it says something. There is also no doubt from the retail channels it is a massive issue. Sony never had to write down a billion dollars to fix their hardware issues.

Beyond that MS was never a trusted name and MS had done a lot to try to distance MS and XBOX. These issues just confirm those feelings. Most people use Windows because they have to. A lot of the resentment cause by Windows bleeds over on to other products they make.

They have been their own worse enemy as it was with Sony. While Sony had Ken screaming you needed a second job to get a PS3, MS was more subtle with Horse Armor and Crackdown "Expansions".

[Chozo Ghost]

From what I understand, Microsoft hardware was generally considered highly reliable and of great quality. They made (and still make) great input devices like mice and keyboards and joysticks. But for some reason, the Xbox line doesn't seem to be of similar quality. I don't know why that is...

Microsoft software on the other hand is notoriously prone to problems. Windows is more prone to viruses and crashes than other operating systems like Linux or Mac, and the same is also true with their other software products like Internet Explorer, Outlook, and Office.  Their PC games aren't too bad, though. Zoo Tycoon is pretty cool, and they do make good flight simulators and so forth. But their productivity software and operating systems leave much to be desired.

I'm not sure what the deal with the Xbox line is, but I think it may have something to do with the xbox being more or less a console cobbled together out of PC components. The original Xbox was like that anyway. It used regular pc components and you could take out its hard drive and swap it with any other hard drive. I believe the DVD drive was the same way. So the xbox is basically just a collection of PC components shoved into a console case. But even this doesn't really explain its high failure rate, because PCs can be pretty reliable for gaming...

So my personal theory is it may have something to do with the software MS runs on it. Maybe the 360's operating system is very demanding of the hardware and causing it to overheat? I don't really know, but  then again Microsoft doesn't have experience making PCs. They certainly aren't like Dell or HP in that respect.

[Shift Key]

From what I understand, Microsoft hardware was generally considered highly reliable and of great quality. They made (and still make) great input devices like mice and keyboards and joysticks. But for some reason, the Xbox line doesn't seem to be of similar quality. I don't know why that is...

I haven't had a good experience with a Microsoft input device that I can remember.
A wireless mouse which had a short battery life. A wired mice which randomly moves to the top-right or top-left of screen while moving. The build quality of the ones I have bought seem fine, but not something I'd want to test out.

These days, I recommend Logitech in terms of input devices. Sure, it costs a bit more, but you get something that lasts - and many models come with a charger cradle so the mouse never needs its batteries replaced. I bought a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard combo over five years ago now and its still going strong. Aside from not having the multimedia capabilities and extra keys in Linux (its available, but I haven't actually tried) its done everything I've asked of it.

Microsoft software on the other hand is notoriously prone to problems. Windows is more prone to viruses and crashes than other operating systems like Linux or Mac, and the same is also true with their other software products like Internet Explorer, Outlook, and Office.

Yawn. Here's an update on your early-2000's information.

~ I've been using Vista for about 8 months. It started out rocky but once I cleaned out the crapware that came with the laptop and installed SP1, its been much more stable and consistent. Not sure how it'd go on existing hardware, but for newer systems there are definitely benefits (just don't use the cheapo Intel graphics chipsets). Haven't had a blue-screen since I installed SP1 - now I'm just tweaking the hell out of it.

~ IE 7 shits all over IE 6 (this is coming from someone who still has to develop for IE 6 users). Sure, its still playing catchup to the likes of Firefox (BTW, get Firefox 3, its still beta but for Windows XP and Vista its been stable for me for months) and *insert your browser here* but there's no use holding on to IE6 as its like having a gaping hole and wondering why trucks are driving through your system. I'm working to move our remaining clients to IE7, but of course inertia is a bitch.

~ Not sure why you bring up Office 2007, but if we're talking security then 2007 has extended Office XP's macro security (opening a unknown file could run a script and access parts of your system). If you want to use a macro in a file, you need to save the file as a different file extension (for Word documents, its .DOCM instead of .DOCX for a macro-less file). 2007 also brings XML file formats instead of the old binary format - and has better development tools for producing documents under .NET (and can be done for non Microsoft platforms as well). Jokes about OOXML and ISO/ECMA stuff aside (I'm about to start looking over the specification in detail), I'm glad to see the days of binary formats in Office ending.

~ Outlook is something I left alone for a long time due to Thunderbird being "the new thing" but now that I have Officee 2007 I started using it again, and wondered how I lived without things like a calendar and syncing RSS feeds in my inbox. Sure, you can use things like Google Calendar and Google Reader, but I love having all this in one place (and accessible offline). I was aware of the security issues with Outlook Express (migrated my parents to Thunderbird) but that's been ditched in Vista for a stripped back mail client called Windows Mail (don't think its the same code base).

So my personal theory is it may have something to do with the software MS runs on it. Maybe the 360's operating system is very demanding of the hardware and causing it to overheat? I don't really know, but  then again Microsoft doesn't have experience making PCs.

I'm fairly certain the 360's major issue (the RRODs) is excessive heat warping components (solder shrinks and expands more than anticipated, connections break on the PCBs (graphics card in particular?), hardware shats itself because of said connections) which wasn't found in QA of the initial models. I'm not going to hunt down the "investigations" but I think it was a "Microsoft mole" who confirmed this.

EDIT: Wikipedia is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems

They certainly aren't like Dell or HP in that respect.

Hilarious. I refuse to touch Dell laptops and HP printers (the home ones at least) because of their reputation to break spontaneously (that's if they work out of the box) and require to be sent back for repairs.

EDIT: Getting products confused

[BranDonk Kong]

It's not excessive heat (as far as most PCs and game consoles are concerned), it's just too much heat for the lead-free solder used to hold the BGA chips in place. The solder joints crack (they don't melt, or flow - you didn't say they did, but this is just for clarification) which in turn creates the hardware failure. It's extremely rare for a 360 to actually overheat (which is 2 red lights - error code 0011, 0012, or 0013, not 3 red lights).

[animecyberrat]

One of my friends runs a repair shop and he says what causes the RROD, is something about the processor sits too close to something, I can't remember what he said, and they thing basically gets way too hot because the fan isn't circulating air to the processor.

He says to fix consoles all he does is uses a little wire looking thingy he made out of paper clips to separate the processor from the whatever it is that it's touching it shouldn't be touching. I don't remember the technical terms but his 360 is now working and it has gotten the RROD twice and this is the second time he fixed it, first time was a temp fix, he juts wrapped it up on a wet towel and it worked for like a week.

Anyways he has been fixing them for a couple months now and just yesterday explained to me what he discovered but I didn't have time to talk (phone bill was $200 higher than expected) but he said he is going to write up an article for my new website that will describe the issue in details and explain how to fix it, with pictures. Hopefully his method proves right because if he figured out how to make them work without breaking, I might be getting one from him. He just moved to Boise a few months ago so I don't see him as much as I used to so I don't get updates very often, but I'll share whatever info he gives me.

[BranDonk Kong]

There are thousands of people that fix this problem - and if paperclips are involved, then it's not a good fix. The processor isn't touching anything that it shouldn't be, the motherboard warps underneath the GPU, and the (cheap) lead-free solder breaks. Some people have "fixed" this by sticking pieces of tooth picks (or paper clips I suppose) under the bolts that go in the X-Clamps (which hold the heatsinks in place), which causes the heatsink in turn to put more downward force on teh GPU, bridging the connection. It's a pretty crappy fix, though it is effective, at least sometimes, and almost always it's short term. While you can say if the system ran cooler these problems would not happen - and that's technically true, but it's not because of the system overheating, it's because the crappy design and the cheap lead-free solder can't handle the heat that actually is produced.

Here are some pictures of the cooling mods I've done to my 360, just to show that I'm not talking out of my ass. I've also done the X-Clamps replacement, replaced the thermal paste with Arctic Silver 5, and reflowed my GPU's cold solder joints with a 1000 degree heat gun.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=636737

[animecyberrat]

Like I said, all I had to go by was what he told me and he didn't explain it very well.

[Ceric]

There are thousands of people that fix this problem - and if paperclips are involved, then it's not a good fix. The processor isn't touching anything that it shouldn't be, the motherboard warps underneath the GPU, and the (cheap) lead-free solder breaks. Some people have "fixed" this by sticking pieces of tooth picks (or paper clips I suppose) under the bolts that go in the X-Clamps (which hold the heatsinks in place), which causes the heatsink in turn to put more downward force on teh GPU, bridging the connection. It's a pretty crappy fix, though it is effective, at least sometimes, and almost always it's short term. While you can say if the system ran cooler these problems would not happen - and that's technically true, but it's not because of the system overheating, it's because the crappy design and the cheap lead-free solder can't handle the heat that actually is produced.

Here are some pictures of the cooling mods I've done to my 360, just to show that I'm not talking out of my ass. I've also done the X-Clamps replacement, replaced the thermal paste with Arctic Silver 5, and reflowed my GPU's cold solder joints with a 1000 degree heat gun.

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=636737

Just out of curiosity.  Besides noise concerns and maybe interference..  Why not just swiss cheese,Drill lots of little wholes, the side of the 360 and use an external fan, like a box fan?

[oohhboy]

You mean something like the intercoolers? I have a friend who used one and it didn't save his XBOX.

If memory serves me right, the associated parts aren't touching, but they are close enough to cook each other, along with the other material problems perviously stated. Even if you did punch a lot of holes into it, unless you made sure there was a substantial increase in air flow in that area, it would still cook unless you pushed stupid volumes through.

MS, being their typical selves, for the last two years trying to out tech the problem by shrinking the chips. The smaller chips would make things cheaper and cooler, but it didn't address the fact that the design of the thing was asinine. I am not sure which one is cheaper, repairing all those XBOXs or reengineering motherboard to eliminate the problem.

Gathering from MS's actions, repairing them, at least on paper, was the cheaper option. Quite clearly, they didn't take into account the human cost in pissed off customers and the bad press they generate. RROD could have very cost them this gen, if not heavily contributed to it in the western world.

[animecyberrat]

One of my friends did just that, he put one of those USB powered fans onto the back of his console and it actually overheated FASTER.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

LOL

[BranDonk Kong]

The Intercooler actually does cool the system faster, if you put it on correctly, but the old models with the plastic plugs would melt and ruin your 360, and it would not be covered by M$ since it's obvious what caused the problem.

[Ceric]

Actually my idea was.

1. Drill holes into largest surface area side of the 360
1a.  Maybe even drill the other side to allow for air to flow fully through.
2. Find fan that would completely cover said side
3. Plug in fan attach or set next to 360
4. Pray that there isn't to much electromagnetic interference.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

...when this is the reality of the product, why do people even bother...

[Caliban]

Because we're all going to die anyway, so why even bother.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You're right.  Gotta invest in EA now.

[Kairon]

I'm amazed at how many people just POUR MORE MONEY into the MS machine because the products are bad. Is this a successful business model or something? Make a bad product, make twice as much sales?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

more broken = more shipped

[NWR_insanolord]

It all makes sense now, why the PS1, PS2, and now the 360 get the most third-party support: third party developers give the most support to the console that's most poorly built.

[animecyberrat]

 

It all makes sense now, why the PS1, PS2, and now the 360 get the most third-party support: third party developers give the most support to the console that's most poorly built.

Makes sense, Nintendo first dominated with the faulty NES.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

We've found the missing link.

[Caliban]

I'm amazed at how many people just POUR MORE MONEY into the MS machine because the products are bad. Is this a successful business model or something? Make a bad product, make twice as much sales?

Do you intend to say that the same could also be said on games?
Heck, we still buy Nintendo games even though we know they are sometimes faulty in design, or just plain bad decisions were made for the game.

You're right.  Gotta invest in EA now.

I meant it in the sense that we all take risks, and that even though we know the imperfections, it is inherent to our own nature to learn to compensate for those imperfections.

I just think that a company that lost 2 billion dollars to repent itself from such a crass mistake is something worth of note.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Not as noteworthy as the fact that MS somehow let a faulty design make it all the way to retail.  Games have faults, but when the console dies, you can't even play said games.  A tree trunk holds up branches, not the otherway around.

So take a risk.  Invest in EA.  The Future Market Leader(R).

[Deguello]

It all makes sense now, why the PS1, PS2, and now the 360 get the most third-party support: third party developers give the most support to the console that's most poorly built.

Makes sense, Nintendo first dominated with the faulty NES.

What was faulty about it?  Dusty cartridges that required a little elbow grease aren't the same as Disc Read Errors and piss poor design.

[animecyberrat]

It had nothing to do with dust, it was the poor connectors that would wear away after time and eventually stop working altogether.

[UltimatePartyBear]

A lot of people who have well used NESes have encountered the cartridge equivalent of the disc read error.  From what I understand, the pins that are supposed to squeeze down on the cartridge's connectors eventually wear out and become too loose to make connections.  The problem can be fixed with a cheap replacement part and a little soldering.  It's not a poor design problem really, but a consequence of the NES being insanely popular (i.e. used a lot) and now very old.  However, that doesn't stop people with no concept of time from saying it's faulty.

[animecyberrat]

It was a poor design flaw they even admitted that when they fixed the issue for the SNES and relaunched the NES with a remodel.

My NES, and everyone else I knew, had the problem mere months after getting the system.


Hey don't get me wrong I *LOVED* the NES, but the truth is they broke down pretty easily. Maybe you were older than we were when you got yours.

[UltimatePartyBear]

My NES and those of everyone else I know still work fine.  It was my SNES that broke down.  So there.

Anyway, my point is that these complaints seem to me to be a recent phenomenon.

[Ceric]

My NES and those of everyone else I know still work fine.  It was my SNES that broke down.  So there.

Anyway, my point is that these complaints seem to me to be a recent phenomenon.

Internet brings complaining power to a younger demographic and the gaming demographic itself has aged and knows better how to get its voice heard.

[DAaaMan64]

My NES and those of everyone else I know still work fine.  It was my SNES that broke down.  So there.

Anyway, my point is that these complaints seem to me to be a recent phenomenon.

Really?  Every NES I run into has the same flashing red light problems and BSOD and all kinda a stuff that you fix with little hand-me-down techniques.

[Plugabugz]

Put it in the fridge.

[animecyberrat]

My NES and those of everyone else I know still work fine.  It was my SNES that broke down.  So there.

Anyway, my point is that these complaints seem to me to be a recent phenomenon.

Internet brings complaining power to a younger demographic and the gaming demographic itself has aged and knows better how to get its voice heard.

and yet your only 4 years old than me.


It is not something I am making up and your the first person I have ever met who does not remember the flashing lights being a major issue. There was a lot more to it than that, I distinctly remember games would freeze up for no reason at all, sometimes when playing Super Mario Bros. the game would get all scrambled and the graphics would act funny like you could walk over pits in the ground or sometimes bricks would appear where they didn't used to be.

It was a lot more than just the stupid machines flashing off and on all the time. And I know I am not alone in these issue, hell Game spot even did a feature on this a while back. Everyone who remembers the NES remembers fighting with it to get them to work.


Hey if you had different experiences more power to you, but I know your   experiences are a rarity because every single person I know who had an NES had their own method of fighting they damn things to get them to work.

[Maverick]

We would always blow in the cartridge and sing "Home On The Range" to get our games to work.

[DAaaMan64]

We would always blow in the cartridge and sing "Home On The Range" to get our games to work.

We often pushed the NES cartridge downward over and over in the NES.

[animecyberrat]

I used to kick mine (no surprises there right) and it never worked.

[Maverick]

We would always blow in the cartridge and sing "Home On The Range" to get our games to work.

We often pushed the NES cartridge downward over and over in the NES.

Yes, before discovering the magical properties of Home On The Range, we used to use that and the Furiously-Attack-Reset-Button approach.

[Ceric]

We would always blow in the cartridge and sing "Home On The Range" to get our games to work.

We do the blowing thing and stick another cart in above the one we like to play and that normally fixed it.

We often pushed the NES cartridge downward over and over in the NES.

[UltimatePartyBear]

I don't remember how old I was when I got a NES.  I remember that it was a Christmas gift and the bundle included the grey Zapper and the single cart version of SMB and Duck Hunt, if that helps.  I'll also admit the possibility that I am more careful with my video games than most people, but please understand that from my perspective that makes all of you seem crazy. 

I still don't call it a design flaw.  It's not on the same scale as the Xbox 360's RROD or the original Playstation's warping spindle.  Those kinds of flaws can affect anyone regardless of how they treat their hardware, and that's a whole different league.

[Deguello]

I used to kick mine (no surprises there right) and it never worked.

The NES is of "low quality" and yet here you are admitting to kicking it.  I want you to think about that for a second, and then imagine yourself kicking a PS2 or a Wii or an Xbox 360.

[Deguello]

Anyway BACK ON TOPIC.

MS has problems, mainly because they've been trying to reach the market they see as "casual" and have been failing at it.  To the new Wii owners and activated gamers on Wii, they see the 360's stuff as cheap gimmicks, especially stuff like Scene it!, which is a $20 Board game MS wants the "casuals" to shell out $350 to play.

[Spak-Spang]

I just want to know what Microsoft's next system will be called since they have Xbox, Xbox 360...what is next?


As for what Microsoft needs to do now, I don't think it is a given that they need to do anything.  They have a strong core market that continues to expand, and continues to support both first and third party games. 

Since, they are still in second place in this generation, and I am sure they are either profitable or becoming profitable with Xbox 360, they really don't need to do anything.

[animecyberrat]

I used to kick mine (no surprises there right) and it never worked.

The NES is of "low quality" and yet here you are admitting to kicking it.  I want you to think about that for a second, and then imagine yourself kicking a PS2 or a Wii or an Xbox 360.

First off I was like 6 when we got outs, second off I wasn't being serious.

But I never had any problems with my SNES or Genesis, N64 or ANY other cart based system giving me that same problem the NES did. Hell event he Atari 2600 worked flawlessly every time I turned it on.

And ON TOPIC, I don't care what MS does until they show me they can go six months without having any major gaming sites reporting issues with them crashing or whatever it is they are doing these days besides playing games.

[EasyCure]

At one point i thought of buying a 360 when the price was low enough just to try a small handfull of games but after reading thru this thread almost in its entirety.. i still dont think i'd do it even if it dropped in price cheaper than a wii.

i dont get to play games much and when i do put quality time in.. i put looooong hours in. i feel like if i were to do that with a 360 i'd end up killing it faster. Whats the point? A handful of games isn't worth the headaches.

I guess what im saying is, take it from someone that doesn't have an xbox, knows a few people who have had a few problems with theirs, and reads things on the internet enough to know that maybe things really ARENT being blown out of proportion.. The only thing MS can do is ride it out until their next system and get their asses in line with quality hardware. They have a fanbase that'll buy the next xbox no questions asked but for everyone else (multi-platform users or 'casual' gamers that dont play for hours on end), the second they hear about a launch unit failing they'll doubt MS has solved any of its problems and will want to put their money into some other investment. I know thats what i would do.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

3rd time will not be a charm.

[Luigi Dude]

I guess what im saying is, take it from someone that doesn't have an xbox, knows a few people who have had a few problems with theirs, and reads things on the internet enough to know that maybe things really ARENT being blown out of proportion.. The only thing MS can do is ride it out until their next system and get their asses in line with quality hardware. They have a fanbase that'll buy the next xbox no questions asked but for everyone else (multi-platform users or 'casual' gamers that dont play for hours on end), the second they hear about a launch unit failing they'll doubt MS has solved any of its problems and will want to put their money into some other investment. I know thats what i would do.

And that's Microsofts big problem with their next system is how are they going to sell it to the mass market.  Even if Microsoft says they've fixed the problem there's really no way for any one to know.  Since the 360's Red Ring of Death is very well known, how many people are going to be rushing to stores to buy the next one.  I can't think of anyone that isn't a Microsoft fanboy that's going to be willing to pay over $400 for a system that they think might have a 50% chance of dieing on them within the first few months.

And even then, I've seen some people that were Microsoft fans because of the original X-Box, buy either a Wii or PS3 because of the 360's horrible hardware issues, which makes me wonder how many true core fans does Microsoft really have now.  Besides the millions of crazed Halo fans.

[EasyCure]

Those halo fans are the ones i meant when i said there'd be a few people that'd buy the system on launch. It's those consumers that will test the waters for MS's 3rd system and no doubt they'd be the ones to push its to its limits with long gameplay sessions. If it doesnt have the same issues (and no new ones) immidiately i think their safe but as for the way things are going now... i dunno. i said i was someone who had once thought about buying a 360 but with its reputation the way it is.. i don't think i'd want to put my money into it. I think there are alot of people out there who feel the same way i do, and thats why there really is no "next move" with the Xbox 360, just risk that this bad rep wont come back to bite them

[Chozo Ghost]

Bill Gates is super rich and probably thinks all consumers can just toss away 4-5 hundred dollars on a console that breaks down after a month. Bill Gates doesn't see 4-500 dollars as a lot of money, and he probably can't comprehend anyone else seeing it as alot of money either.

[DAaaMan64]

Bill Gates is super rich and probably thinks all consumers can just toss away 4-5 hundred dollars on a console that breaks down after a month. Bill Gates doesn't see 4-500 dollars as a lot of money, and he probably can't comprehend anyone else seeing it as alot of money either.

I don't think many market analysts would have jobs if they thought like that.  I'm sure Microsoft has a few of those.

[Deguello]

Bill Gates is super rich and probably thinks all consumers can just toss away 4-5 hundred dollars on a console that breaks down after a month. Bill Gates doesn't see 4-500 dollars as a lot of money, and he probably can't comprehend anyone else seeing it as alot of money either.

How do ANY of the market analysts have their jobs.  They got this entire generation as wrongly as possible, placing everybody in every wrong spot.

DS a fad, PSP will kill it with features.
Wii a failure, the entire market wants HD games.  PS3 will match PS2.  360 will make profit.

All have been said by PAID analysts and anybody who said anything cross was ridicule or shouted down.

I don't think many market analysts would have jobs if they thought like that.  I'm sure Microsoft has a few of those.

[DAaaMan64]

Bill Gates is super rich and probably thinks all consumers can just toss away 4-5 hundred dollars on a console that breaks down after a month. Bill Gates doesn't see 4-500 dollars as a lot of money, and he probably can't comprehend anyone else seeing it as alot of money either.

How do ANY of the market analysts have their jobs.  They got this entire generation as wrongly as possible, placing everybody in every wrong spot.

DS a fad, PSP will kill it with features.
Wii a failure, the entire market wants HD games.  PS3 will match PS2.  360 will make profit.

All have been said by PAID analysts and anybody who said anything cross was ridicule or shouted down.

I don't think many market analysts would have jobs if they thought like that.  I'm sure Microsoft has a few of those.

Hey just cause certain ones talk the loudest doesn't mean **** to me.  I really doubt Billy Gates looks at his consumers so arrogantly and ignorantly.

[animecyberrat]

Didn't Bill Gates retire?

[Shift Key]

Didn't Bill Gates retire?

Yes. Monkey Boy is in charge now.

[DAaaMan64]

DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS

[Ceric]

I haven't seen any indication that Bill Gates that arrogant about Money.

[Nick DiMola]

Here is what may possibly be next for Microsoft:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1584945/20080407/id_0.jhtml

barf.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

ahahahahahaha

The Microsoft StickWinder

[Caliban]

Yeah but can you say Resident Evil 5 with IR controls? Thought so.

[Arbok]

This news is epic, really. I was going to ask what the hold up is, if they are going to overtly go after the Wii approach, but then I read the article:

Rare, the Microsoft-owned studio behind Xbox 360's launch first-person shooter "Perfect Dark Zero" and the upcoming installment of the "Banjo-Kazooie" franchise, has been tasked with creating a unified interface and look for the controller. Rare has had trouble hitting its deadlines, according to the source.

  Oh Rare... just like old times.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

Shameless, but not unexpected.

[Shift Key]

Here is what may possibly be next for Microsoft:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1584945/20080407/id_0.jhtml

barf.

Release the hounds Nintendo lawyers.

[ShyGuy]

As a once proud user of OS/2 I know all about Microsoft's dirty copying tricks. THIEFES!

[Kairon]

If true, then it's probably a long term prototyping thing to get them ready for the XBox720.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Perfect Dark Zero Plus 1 will change the way we look at games FOREVER from excitement to DISCUST

[Ceric]

I call BS.  Microsoft knows its key demographic well.  I don't think they would blatantly rip off the Wiimote.

[Arbok]

I call BS.  Microsoft knows its key demographic well.  I don't think they would blatantly rip off the Wiimote.

Do they? Perhaps we are going to see a new ideology behind the 360 now with Moore gone. In fact, going by the rumor, it sounds like they very well could have started this shortly after Moore left.

[Deguello]

This is probably the 2nd worst thing MS could have done in regards to Wii.  They've basically validated Nintendo's approach.  MS needs to come up with their own innovative technology instead of just aping the #1 guy.  That'll get them nowhere and spread more love for Wii.

(Sony has the distinction of the worst, They just ignored it until it fell 3 laps behind.)

[Shift Key]

MS needs to come up with their own innovative technology instead of just aping the #1 guy.

A dead horse is still floggable.

[animecyberrat]

So does that mean they will be releasing an updated version of Halo with Ms-Mii's?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yes.  And the Mii's will have increased options/functionality in light of Sony's "Home", because MS always takes a cue from Sony when it intends to "aim high".

[NWR_pap64]

This is probably the 2nd worst thing MS could have done in regards to Wii.  They've basically validated Nintendo's approach.  MS needs to come up with their own innovative technology instead of just aping the #1 guy.  That'll get them nowhere and spread more love for Wii.

(Sony has the distinction of the worst, They just ignored it until it fell 3 laps behind.)

What I find very ironic about all of this is that the fans and the gaming media have CRAPPED on the Wii for being gimmicky, shallow and way too simple for gamers to the point where it insults their intelligence.

If MS does indeed create a Wiimote knock off it would be further proving how the Wii has massive appeal.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

This is probably the 2nd worst thing MS could have done in regards to Wii.  They've basically validated Nintendo's approach.  MS needs to come up with their own innovative technology instead of just aping the #1 guy.  That'll get them nowhere and spread more love for Wii.

(Sony has the distinction of the worst, They just ignored it until it fell 3 laps behind.)

Hey, Sony claims to have been tilting and tumbling from the very second they heard about the Wii's claim to fame.  They were innovators in the field of ripping off Nintendo.

[animecyberrat]

Yeah but MS has more money and more experience in ripping people off.

[Adrock]

I call BS only because, giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, I would think they were smart enough to know that the only reason the Wii remote succeeded was because it came with every Wii console that was sold since it launched. As a Gamecube peripheral, the concept would have failed miserably. As an Xbox 360 peripheral, I would expect the same.

Companies have modified controllers in the past. Microsoft did it with the Type S Xbox controller and Sony is doing it right now with the Dual Shock 3 (having previously done so twice with the PS1). That's not the same as asking your own userbase to adopt a completely new controller when the old one isn't broken.

[animecyberrat]

when the old one isn't broken.

Give it time you'll start seeing the RROD on the controllers too.

[Nick DiMola]

Further proof of the rumored 360 wiimote here.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Microsoft is still a generation behind Nintendo's disruption.

If they really wanted to compete, they'd have to show their Guitar Hero 5 with their own version of the Balance Board, a power glove, and one of those impact vibro vests.

[animecyberrat]

If you are talking about the Interactor, that wasn't made by Nintendo.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Neither is Guitar Hero 5, so what were you implying?

[animecyberrat]

all the other technologies you said they were behind Nintendo on, that one wasn't Nintendo.

I was merely implying that your implication that MS would be implicated in a ripping off of Nintendo's own implementing of said technology was inaccurately implied. 

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

But you forget it's MS' style to rip-off *and then some*.  Like copy the PS3 on all terms, then throw in something luxurious that's Xbox branded, plus a free Mountain Dew.

[animecyberrat]

plus a free Mountain Dew.

I'd buy it for that.

[Darkheart]

plus a free Mountain Dew.

I'd buy it for that.

He forgot to mention its Game Fewel

[Maverick]

Game Fuel was the shiznit.  It was like a delicious citrusy beverage wrapped up in the awesome that is Master Chief.

Don't be hatin' on the Game Fuel.  I wasted several moneys on twelve packs until my brain got tired of it and now I never want to have it again.  But it was fun while it lasted.

[animecyberrat]

I rob my parents penny jar every day to buy a MT Dew. I used to buy only Code Red but they don't have it in the 1Ltr anymore and if I'm gonna buy only 1 a day I might as well buy the big on cuz it last longer.

[animecyberrat]

What if they skip the motion controls altogether and make their next system full VR like that Xbox they had in The Island? Then they would be more than a step ahead of everyone else.

[Flames_of_chaos]

What if they skip the motion controls altogether and make their next system full VR like that Xbox they had in The Island? Then they would be more than a step ahead of everyone else.

Won't happen Microsoft is too busy trying to integrate Microsoft tech into everything and trying to turn this world into a Microsoft world, which will be full of malfunctioning tech.

[DAaaMan64]

If MS does do this, I think they will actually do quite a nice job of it.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

Hey, any opinions on the retro Xbox 360 design?  Frankly, I love it.  It caused me to cast a gaze upon my current 360 like that of a bored lover. 

"Oh.  It's you, white thin-in-the-middle 360.  Is my bacon ready yet, or are you just going to stare at me all day?"

[Kairon]

I just realized that dwindling XBox 360 stock could be MS clearing the channel for a price drop. I guess we'll see come April.

[vudu]

Hey, any opinions on the retro Xbox 360 design?

Um, what?  This is news to me.

[Caliban]

Vudu, I believe that was an april fools joke from Xbox Live's part.

[Ceric]

To join this with the other thread.  Following Sony and Nintendo's lead.  It will be steam.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

An April Fool's joke that makes their existing product look bad in comparison?  Okay, who's the fool supposed to be in this equation?

[Caliban]

You can mod it yourself.

[ReverendNoahWhateley]

I can barely put stickers on my plastic Guitar Hero controller.  I don't trust myself to do anything creative with expensive electronics.

[animecyberrat]

My friend did a pretty cool Mod to his 360 just DAYS before it died. It was all clear and had blue lights on the inside. It looked pretty cool in the dark. I think I have a picture of it somewhere.

[KDR_11k]

I just realized that dwindling XBox 360 stock could be MS clearing the channel for a price drop. I guess we'll see come April.

Europe already got a price drop and apparently sales doubled because of it.

[vudu]

My friend did a pretty cool Mod to his 360 just DAYS before it died. It was all clear and had blue lights on the inside. It looked pretty cool in the dark. I think I have a picture of it somewhere.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the mod was the reason the system died just DAYS later?

[Maverick]

Oh you and your logical conclusions.

[animecyberrat]

there.

[Kairon]

Or maybe we're not getting a price drop... Maybe MS is telling us the truth when they say they've had supplies problems. Egads, I know, but I DO remember hearing about one of their manufacturers dropping out of 360 production a while back...

[Mikintosh]

Personally, I'd be five times more likely to buy the thing if they dropped the price; it'd also undercut one of the Wii's selling points (not that I want that to happen, but still).

[animecyberrat]

Well my Wii is now having problems and the warranty has now expired so I am considering a 360 if something drastic should happen to my Wii. Of course I now have to get one anyways just because I do not trust Midway to port that new MK game over and I'll need something to play it on. But not before a price drop cuz if i get one I will get an Elite.

[KDR_11k]

I'm weakly considering a 360 Arcade. Very weakly though.

[IceCold]

Didn't you want one for Earth Defense Force?