Topic: EDITORIALS: The State of Nintendo Online

[Jonnyboy117]

…is a sorry state indeed.  But there is hope.

I want to start off with some rhetorical (and not at all bitter) questions for Nintendo.    

Where are the new, must-play online games from Nintendo on DS?

   

If NST could do voice chat, lobbies, and rivals in Metroid Prime Hunters a year ago, why isn't it in any other games from Nintendo?

   

If Nintendo WFC has been up and running for a year and a half, why aren't first-party Wii games like Excite Truck and Mario Party 8 online?

   

Why do all the online channels on Wii only connect about 50% of the time through my official USB adaptor and always-on cable Internet connection?

   

If my Wii is online 24/7, why do I have to wait sixty seconds for the news or weather to download when I go to those channels?

   

Why is the weather only updated once or twice a day?  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day!

   

Why is there a huge lag for Wiimail to show up on the board, even when the blue light has already indicated that a message is waiting to be read?

   

Just what the hell is WiiConnect24 supposed to do for online games, and when will games start to support it?    

Why is Nintendo so far behind on Wii's online situation when they have had five years to think about how much they screwed it up on GameCube and over a year to see how to do it (sort of) right on DS?

   

When is any of this stuff going to be fixed?

   

Let's back up for a second.  Clearly, the Wii is a great system and already a big success for Nintendo.  I'm enthusiastic about many upcoming games, both casual and hardcore.  For that matter, there are a lot of things Nintendo has done right with the Wii's online features.  Virtual Console is an excellent service that's only going to get better over time.  The browser, forecast channel, and especially news channel are all really cool features that we are getting for free.  And so far, Nintendo has made good use of the online function to update the system firmware as needed, with the potential for even more improvements in the future.    

On the DS front, Nintendo has delivered on the promise of a totally free online matchmaking service, and although there aren't a lot of games that support Nintendo WiFi Connection, a few of them are truly great online multiplayer games.  The friend code system is annoying, but you should be able to find plenty of random opponents in most WFC games.    

Clearly, Nintendo has come a long way from having no online service whatsoever before November 2004.  Nintendo DS isn't an online powerhouse, but you can do some fun things with it.  On the other hand, Wii is unmistakably an online platform right out of the box.  That status is mostly earned by the Virtual Console service.  What Wii still can't do is let me play any games online with other people.  You'd think a year of experience with the DS would give Nintendo some kind of head start on making online Wii games, but there's still nothing three months after launch.  (My hat is tipped to Konami for the online feature in Elebits, but you're not actually playing the game online.)    

What's much worse is that Nintendo hasn't firmly announced any upcoming online games, except for a vague promise that Super Smash Bros. Brawl will go online in some unknown way, either in late 2007 or even the next year if the game is delayed.  Pokemon Battle Revolution features online matches and is already out in Japan, but it's going to be at least several months before the game is released elsewhere, due to the heavily delayed launch of the companion DS titles.  Plus, Pokemon requires friend codes separate from the Wii system code, although this is supposedly due to the DS link-up.  Aside from those two far-off games, we got vague promises of online gameplay when Battalion Wars II and Mario Strikers: Charged were shown last year, but there were no details at the time, and those games haven't been heard from in months.  This reticence on Nintendo's part is not only thwarting Wii owners who want to play Nintendo's games online, but it's hurting third-party publishers and developers who are still not getting any support from Nintendo to implement online features.    

The system/friend code requirement is a major restriction to certain types of games, particularly anything massively multiplayer online (MMO).  Midway's Ed Boon said in a recent Game Informer interview that he wanted to put online gameplay in the Wii version of Mortal Kombat: Armageddon, but that Nintendo's development tools for the WiiConnect24 service are still not being made available to other studios.    

GI: Are you supporting online at all?    

Boon: I wish. Right now, there’s not an infrastructure that’s set up for us to go online with the lobbies and all that. I’m hoping future Wii games will have that stuff set up and we’ll be ready to do that.

   

I hope so too, Ed, but the question is WHEN?  When will Nintendo get its act together on this issue?  When will we be able to play Wii games against our friends and family far away?  When will we finally learn just what the heck WiiConnect24 is supposed to do with that always-on connection?  When will online DS games get out of the Stone Age and start offering the communication and matchmaking features that we already know are possible on the system?    

Answers to at least some of these questions (okay…maybe one or two at most) may be nigh.  With Shigeru Miyamoto addressing thousands of game developers at GDC next month, Nintendo has a golden opportunity to finally show that they are serious about these online services and want to make them about more than just random, desperate DS matchmaking and downloading old games onto the Wii.  Miyamoto has the perfect forum to showcase amazing new games which take advantage of online functionality in ways that we have never seen before.  It all makes such perfect sense that, typically, Nintendo will probably squander the chance and continue to be doggedly mysterious about the online potential for Wii and DS.  But they'd better not wait too long, because without full support from third-party developers as well as convincing support from internal teams, the online potential of these systems could remain just that: potential.

[NWR_pap64]

...Didn't we already have a discussion about this on the Wii forum? I was the one that posted and linked it to a similar discussion in Go Nintendo.

Anyways, while I agree that the services do need some fixing, I think its too early to predict doom and demand these features.

If its 2008 and Nintendo still hasn't delivered on their online promise, THEN we can freely bitch about it.

[Blue Plant]

Isn't voice chat in Pokémon Diamond and Pearl?

[Jonnyboy117]

Sorry pap, I don't read the forums that closely, so I missed that discussion.  This editorial came from some ideas I've been kicking around for weeks.

I don't understand why we should give Nintendo a pass until 2008.  I've been bitching about some of these problems for over five years now.  Nintendo has had a lot of time to assess the situation and form their strategy.  They already have an infrastructure for online gameplay on the DS, but that doesn't seem to have helped them get ready for Wii.

Blue Plant, I just learned about that feature a few days ago.  I think it's great, despite arriving in North America 13 months after the last Nintendo game with voice chat.  However, will the online functions actually be in the English version of Pokemon?  I think probably so, but for whatever insane reason Nintendo still refuses to say anything about it, despite the game coming out in two months.  By continuing to withhold all information about their online plans, Nintendo is leaving weathered fans like me to assume the worst, because historically, we've usually been let down with regards to anything online from this company.

[that Baby guy]

Well, I think given the whole "We expect  to be the second console for most people"-ish thing that everyone at Nintendo supported, except Reggie,  it is understandable why there isn't strong, ready online capabilities for the Wii.

Basically, the way I see it, they expected people who were "hardcore" gamers that wanted to play online to end up buying a Wii and either a PS3 or a 360.  Reggie knew they could do better, but wasn't really high enough in the ladder at the time to change this.  Because they expected this, they thought there would be no rush or need for a serious online plan, after all, most would have an alternative either.

Flash forward six months, to Fall/Winter '06, and Nintendo starts to see changes in what the turn out will be.  Now people are buying Wii first.  The other two are the "second" console, according to recent trends.  All of a sudden, internet gaming can't be played on what is perhaps the world's most popular system.  What do you have to do?  Come clean.  Be honest, and let people know that it is on the way, but it won't be until later this year.  That way, people will know when to expect it, they will see that it still exists, and that third parties are getting a chance.  It's better than covering up that they are getting to it late, because people began to doubt that games were even going to have multiplayer online capabilities.

Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months.  Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes.  Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B.  Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.

[oohhboy]

Quote
Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months.  Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes.  Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B.  Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.

No, no and no. If they needed to make a proof of concept of their online system works, they need to release for free, a simple game over the Wii. Not burn one of the game of last generation like Sony did with GT:HD.

[ShyGuy]

Time for a certain hater to pick up a 360 for Xbox live!

[Entroper]

Nintendo obviously didn't need a robust online infrastructure at launch.  They're still selling as many consoles as they can produce, so what's the rush from their perspective?

One of the important aspects of online gaming is that it's only a must-have, deal-breaker feature for hardcore gamers.  Nintendo has made it very obvious that the Wii is NOT targeting hardcore gamers; they're trying to bring video games to a much wider audience than those who have enjoyed them in the past.  Online is therefore not their top priority.  We're only 3 months after launch, so all the "what's taking them so long" honestly sounds rather silly.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

...to be honest, I have to agree with Entroper here partially.  Mass market presence was Nintendo's primary goal, and that's where they put their money.  No online games right now is not a huge problem--it's that they don't have a clear online for third parties DOWN THE ROAD yet. What's taking them so long to coordinate with third parties?  I thought this was the new, third party-friendly Nintendo spearheaded by Iwata!

We do need to see real online gaming on Wii within 2007, or else we never really will.

[sycomonkey]

Because online isn't very important.  I'm not trying to defend Nintendo, I will call them wrong when they screw up (they're porting roms to VC emulators slowly), but the fact of the matter is that even if online was fully working today, I wouldn't notice because I own no multiplayer Wii games, and I own only a few mutliplayer GC games, and those games (Smash, Kart) are only fun when the people you're playing against are right there sitting next to you, and you've known them for a while.  I have mario kart DS and I rarely play online because playing against strangers isn't any fun.  And even when some good online multiplayer games come out, the friend system is fine because I'd only ever want to play against my friends anyway.  I think people complain about that one too much, IM'ing a 16 digit number isn't that hard when you're only going to be doing it 5 to 15 times ever.

Now, the weather and news channels are indeed kinda poor, but it's pretty inconsequential sense that's not what the Wii is for anyway.  The Wii is for playing games, and it does this absurdly well...

[King of Twitch]

I don't get it, casual gamers and a lack of importance to blame for no online? They had a working but tarded up Mario Kart DS online one year ago to improve on. They announced smash bros online at launch two years ago. As the editorial mentioned, they sabotaged their own gamecube online infrastructure five years ago preemptively deciding they couldn't find a profitable means to do it and that nobody wanted it anyways.

Somewhere along the line they made an unprecedented discovery: a way to provide an unpopular service that was previously unprofitable, for free! They then decided not to share this amazing information with third parties so their product could have a leg up with competitors and make their stockholders happier in the long run.

Their new philosophy of targeting new gamers through simpler controls and positive media appearances caused them to abandon pursuing this fountain of youth until after launch.  

[Jig Insane]

Did anyone peep this article on this very site

Online Dev Kits already distributed

The Dev kits to get the games online should already begin appearing in the hands of game makers, leaving it up to them to test it out and implement some type of true online mode in future games, granted it won't happen immediately, but looking toward the fall and winter line-up would be a good fit.

around that time some promising titles can implement the feature, and to good degrees.  Not saying that Nintendo has been perfect about getting the tech out, but now its time for all to show up to the plate with some impressive software, and hopefully withoutt he villifying friend codes

[vudu]

There is no definitive Nintendo online.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Well, I think given the whole "We expect  to be the second console for most people"-ish thing that everyone at Nintendo supported, except Reggie,  it is understandable why there isn't strong, ready online capabilities for the Wii.

Basically, the way I see it, they expected people who were "hardcore" gamers that wanted to play online to end up buying a Wii and either a PS3 or a 360.  Reggie knew they could do better, but wasn't really high enough in the ladder at the time to change this.  Because they expected this, they thought there would be no rush or need for a serious online plan, after all, most would have an alternative either.

Flash forward six months, to Fall/Winter '06, and Nintendo starts to see changes in what the turn out will be.  Now people are buying Wii first.  The other two are the "second" console, according to recent trends.  All of a sudden, internet gaming can't be played on what is perhaps the world's most popular system.  What do you have to do?  Come clean.  Be honest, and let people know that it is on the way, but it won't be until later this year.  That way, people will know when to expect it, they will see that it still exists, and that third parties are getting a chance.  It's better than covering up that they are getting to it late, because people began to doubt that games were even going to have multiplayer online capabilities.

Now, if they were smart, they'd snap up development of an online mode of SSB:M, and release that in a about three months.  Because the game is already made, it wouldn't be too difficult to build at least a 1v1 online mode, add a few trophies, and then offer it at a budget price of $40, w/o any real changes.  Smash fans would be very happy, and it would curb their appetite for SSB:B.  Not only that, but the infrastructure of the online system could be a true, strong prototype, and give building blocks for other online games.

I'm sorry but even at that time Reggie was in a position to make policy and have sway.  In fact if that is the case now that Reggie is fully in power over NoA why haven't they been spearheading the issue?  It might just be me but they seem to be the ones making the most mistakes.

As mentioned they knew how Live worked and was being really enjoyed by many people.  Also the domain of casual players like Yahoo! Games and others that tend not to attract the hardcore but the casual gamers love it. (Backgammon, Card Games, Word Games, etc.)  I am partial to Backgammon and some of the other games.  A channel for these sort of little games would really appeal to the casual player but they need to be online.

The loading on the news since it's updated almost every hour or more I can understand but the Weather offering is pathetic.  Great presentation but I would throw it all away if it had my town and was able to be updated when I wanted and the reading would be at that moment.  As of now its still better to go onto the Opera browser and just go to weather.com or the national weather service.  Who will give me vastly more accurate information.  Whoever is responsible for that should be flogged.  Weather is relatively pointless if it is not up-to-the-minute or even hour.

I'm sorry but Online is for Casuals as well.  WoW is a good example.  People who normally don't play games play it.  They don't play it for the leveling and the instances.  No.  They play it for the social aspect.

Nintendo had a good start but they keep dropping the little balls.  It will eventually add up.  If the 360 was more reliable I think, actually I know, that its out-of-the-gate lead would be much vaster.  Besides hardware problems the 360 has done most things well.  Sort of mid row on everything but online which it truly excels at.  The PS3 has been botching things left and right.  So the Wii comes good price , innovative games that range from great to bad.  A company known for good reliable hardware.  At t hat point it seems like a now brainer.  Unfortunately, online isn't nearly as developed.  Not a deal breaker when you initially buy it.  Though after you have it you keep thinking about it because everything is there and you spent the money to get it online, broadband connections and wireless routers aren't cheap, also you have the great news channel.  So your thinking, not keeping up with the latest videogame news, that since it can easily do the news channels and VC games.  I mean any time now they should have Hearts online or something.  I mean it's on my Computer for Free.

I mean can't anyone see how you don't need much information to draw conclusions.

Yeah that took me around 4 cartoons.  So it's a bit of a rant.  In short with the time and examples Nintendo had before the Wii release.  Why weren't they prepared.

Also I like the editorial because it will be read by many more people then the forums.  Therefore bring more attention to the issue.

[RickPowers]

Quote
Originally posted by: TheYoungerPlumber
...to be honest, I have to agree with Entroper here partially.  Mass market presence was Nintendo's primary goal, and that's where they put their money.  No online games right now is not a huge problem--it's that they don't have a clear online for third parties DOWN THE ROAD yet. What's taking them so long to coordinate with third parties?  I thought this was the new, third party-friendly Nintendo spearheaded by Iwata!

We do need to see real online gaming on Wii within 2007, or else we never really will.

With all due respect, this is horsepocky.

This is exactly the same problem the GameCube had.  You had developers willing to put online features in their games, supporting them on their own, and all they needed from Nintendo is specs on how to talk to the network adapter.  Nintendo flatly REFUSED to give them they tools they needed.  Bear in mind, this wasn't a matter of the tools not existing, because Nintendo has released games with LAN functionality, and had given the info to at least one other company (Sega, for Phantasy Star Online).  Nintendo just didn't want to give the information to anyone else for reasons undisclosed.

Fast forward another five years and it's the exact same scenario, except that this time, it's not even an issue of support for a peripheral ... it's a standard feature of the goddamned system!  And again, developers are willing to add the features if Nintendo will just tell them how to talk to the device, and they won't divulge the information, and again, won't say why.

TYP is right that it's not that big a deal that we don't have online titles right out of the gate (though it certainly didn't hurt Microsoft that Live support is practically mandatory).  What is a big deal is that developing the titles takes time, and when you're already past launch and developers aren't being given the information on connecting to a standard piece of the hardware to make their games ...

Well, it's just Nintendo's own stubbornness shining through again.  Especially when you consider that Nintendo designs their systems to encourage innovation, and at the same time, stifles it by not giving developers everything they need to fully tap their creativity.

[Viewtiful mario]

Quote
Did anyone peep this article on this very site

Online Dev Kits already distributed

I don't think so Jig Insane, it seems like almost all the lttle "editorials" that are appearing on this trend seem to be ignoring that yes devs now are able to put there games online and are no longer restricted to do so.

What puzzles me is that first people complain about the DS's online service being bad, then they say Nintnedo should've had online ready sooner because they have the DS's already set up.  Did you ever stop to think that maby it's taking a while to get online games for the wii ready because they want to make the sarvice better then the DS's?  I don't know how popular online play is in Japan (xbox excells at it but it sells like crap there) but maby nintendo releases Pokemon BR in Japan with all the options on an online DS game already because Japanese gamers arn't as bitchy as us, but when it comes to America, Reggie plans on giving things a facelift because he knows American gamers care a lot more about online play.  Maby he's using this extra time to better the service.

This is of corse speculation but it's the idea I'm going with.

[willie1234]

This certainly is a favor to Microsoft who has a great online system.  I don't really understand what the problem is.  Third parties are used to hosting their own servers, and have their own clients built into the games.  All they need is a tcp/ip driver.  Is this what's missing?  Is Nintendo forcing them to use Nintendo's host, which isn't ready yet?

[willie1234]

"Did you ever stop to think that maby it's taking a while to get online games for the wii ready because they want to make the sarvice better then the DS's"

This would be a good argument if the year was 2000 and online gaming was still somewhat new to consoles.  We're in 2007 now.  That's like saying we need to wait for rumble so that Nintendo can do it right.  Sorry, no, Nintendo needs to get their sh*t together and get this out the door.  It's a solved problem.

[Ceric]

Who is this Maby you speak of?

[Entroper]

Quote
Originally posted by: RickPowers
With all due respect, this is horsepocky.

This is exactly the same problem the GameCube had.  You had developers willing to put online features in their games, supporting them on their own, and all they needed from Nintendo is specs on how to talk to the network adapter.  Nintendo flatly REFUSED to give them they tools they needed.  Bear in mind, this wasn't a matter of the tools not existing, because Nintendo has released games with LAN functionality, and had given the info to at least one other company (Sega, for Phantasy Star Online).  Nintendo just didn't want to give the information to anyone else for reasons undisclosed.

Fast forward another five years and it's the exact same scenario, except that this time, it's not even an issue of support for a peripheral ... it's a standard feature of the goddamned system!  And again, developers are willing to add the features if Nintendo will just tell them how to talk to the device, and they won't divulge the information, and again, won't say why.

TYP is right that it's not that big a deal that we don't have online titles right out of the gate (though it certainly didn't hurt Microsoft that Live support is practically mandatory).  What is a big deal is that developing the titles takes time, and when you're already past launch and developers aren't being given the information on connecting to a standard piece of the hardware to make their games ...

Well, it's just Nintendo's own stubbornness shining through again.  Especially when you consider that Nintendo designs their systems to encourage innovation, and at the same time, stifles it by not giving developers everything they need to fully tap their creativity.

I'm sorry, but wasn't there an article on THIS SITE, YESTERDAY, saying that devs had online kits?  Oh look, it's right here!

You know, when a reader takes the time to organize their thoughts and post some feedback, it's probably best not to say that it's "horsepocky."  With all due respect?  Gee, thanks.

[Smash_Brother]

Nintendo can't go barking about innovation and then deny devs the necessary tools to access a very large part of that innovative edge.

Yeah, the Wiimote is innovative, but what about its applicable usage in online gaming? I would think that there could be some pretty damn impressive online experiences that use the Wiimote, and I don't just mean FPSs.

Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's? Seriously, generating a strong online repertoire can only do good things for the console and it's not like it's impossible to do or involves rocket science to accomplish so why not do it?

[NWR_pap64]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Nintendo can't go barking about innovation and then deny devs the necessary tools to access a very large part of that innovative edge.

Yeah, the Wiimote is innovative, but what about its applicable usage in online gaming? I would think that there could be some pretty damn impressive online experiences that use the Wiimote, and I don't just mean FPSs.

Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's? Seriously, generating a strong online repertoire can only do good things for the console and it's not like it's impossible to do or involves rocket science to accomplish so why not do it?

Well, Nintendo has started to ship online kits to developers now, so this is why I think that we will likely get online titles the end of summer/early fall/Winter 2007. This is also why I say that we should wait till 2008 in order to truly bitch since we are just starting. I guess it doesn't hurt to bitch about it now before it gets worse, but its too early to predict doom. I mean, if it took MS many years to perfect their XBOX Live service, and they are a company that has all the tools to bring online gaming to life, what makes you think that Nintendo, who has shunned online gaming for YEARS, will not get the same problem?

[Bloodworth]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

Furthermore, why the delay? What the HELL is Nintendo afraid of? That 3rd parties are going to make online games for the Wii that are so good that no one will buy Nintendo's?

Actually, that does seem to be the problem and the reason GameCube online never materialized.  Nintendo wants online gaming to be some kind of overarching strategy for the system and they want to spearhead that. Reggie flat-out said that Pokemon would be the first online game, but Pokemon isn't coming out for a while because they are still translating the DS games.  

So, in the meantime, Nintendo has been holding back the online tools because they want to launch the online service with one of their own games, rather than let something like Mortal Kombat spoil their big plans.  I don't know whether it really gives them any advantage, but it doesn't do their customers any good when a game like Call of Duty 3 has a huge online multiplayer mode just yanked right out of the Wii version.

[Smash_Brother]

I'm guessing MP3 will have online multiplayer.

Retro was keeping the multiplayer aspect hush-hush and I'm assuming that means they have something worth keeping secret.

The only thing which would really justify that would be online multiplayer and, as we all know, Nintendo's American devs seem to have a better concept of online than their Japanese devs (NST with MP:H).

[NWR_pap64]

They are afraid of third parties stealing their thunder...