Topic: Nintendo Teabagged Once Again....

[broodwars]

But this thread isn't so much about what Nintendo has done wrong, but how they are being done wrong.

A bit melodramatic, don't you think?  The only company I can think of that would even entertain the notion of using this engine in their Wii games is High Voltage, and they make their own ****ty tech.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But if this engine were to be scaled to work with the Wii then that means that the games made using the UE3 could be ported alot easier to the Wii. Multi-platform games would now be easier to do and 3rd parties wouldn't have an excuse to shun the Wii as much anymore.

But as far as the purpose of this thread, it's more like the Nintendo equivalent to the "Sony Hit Hard Lately" thread, an all encompassing thread of the "Industry" hating on Nintendo, deserved or undeserved.

[KDR_11k]

It may be that third-parties don't feel like Nintendo would give their titles the same marketing support as they do their own titles.  It'd be hard to green-light a non-family-oriented Wii game knowing that the odds are stacked against it because 1) It's not family-oriented, and 2) Nintendo won't help you market it, guaranteeing that it'll languish on the shelf.

They aren't greenlighting any AAA family-oriented titles either though. And hell, since when do multinational megacorps need to beg for advertising donations? Companies like Activision or EA certainly have enough money to do their own damn marketing and by the looks of it that's what they're doing on other platforms (since Sony or MS would only help with ads that advertise their platform exclusively and most of the games are cross-platform).

[Urkel]

Wouldn't it be SO typical of Nintendo to leave out of their documentation some important details about how the remote works so that their games look that much more superior?  And if you were a videogame developer and you knew Nintendo was doing this, why wouldn't you not want to support them?

It's known that Nintendo has supplied third parties with shader libraries, such as the fancy fur-shading effects used in Mario Galaxy. It seems most don't bother using them, anyway. Nintendo also sent Ubisoft some people from Retro to help them out with Motionplus for Red Steel 2.
 
 

So 3rd parties are trying to disrupt Nintendo's business practices by actively sabotaging their own efforts, not participating at all or only contributing to the competition?

If one day such a thing can actually be proven to be happening, then I hope that all guilty parties do suffer the fate of all the unfortunate companies of the generation for purposely leaving potential money on the table.
I don't actually wish that on them since it's the little people that don't make the decisions that suffer first and the most, but something really needs to change.

The industry didn't create the Wii, therefore the industry cannot destroy it. But they'll try.

[Deguello]

But this thread isn't so much about what Nintendo has done wrong, but how they are being done wrong.

A bit melodramatic, don't you think?

Well then what's all this stuff about Nintendo "shutting out" third parties?  They're the ones that act like children when their half-assed games fail before full-assed games made by Nintendo.  Hell look at that Konami DDR game. "Music Fit."  It's like they think Wii owners are chumps and can't tell the difference between labels and when they do they pitch screaming fits about Nintendo not wanting to front advertising dollars for leftovers and Wii Owners for not being as stupid as they think.

They're the ones crying and screaming for Nintendo to help them and all they offer is Barnyard Party or Pilates games or cheap knockoffs of Nintendo's own games.  Would you seriously front advertising dollars for that, even knowing that it doesn't lead to better support from them should they succeed?

It really seems like the only way Nintendo's going to win over third parties is to "grow their own," buy them out, or simply be the last one left standing, and even then some will still make games for android or TI calculators and die before Nintendo.

[SixthAngel]

This thread was started by talking about Epic.  Epic has a vested interest in the Wii failing and third parties going elsewhere.

Their main business is making game engines for new technology.  If the Wii "wins" Epic's business is going to go in the ****ter.  The amount of competition with engines on the old hardware will be much higher and companies won't need them as they will have built their own and have more experience.  If consoles go the less power route Epic will be making high end engines just for the PC and that business is much smaller especially with the xbox sucking a lot of the developers from it.  The Iphone and portable gaming simply isn't a threat to their business since they are expected to be weak.

Other companies are a combination of A) Money already invested in the high powered consoles
B) Incredibly long development times so even slower company reaction.  I'm looking at you Final Fantasy.
C) The big companies values involve incredible price and graphics, they really don't understand the Wii and they certainly don't like it.  As a previous poster said the Wii gets rid of their current stategy and their biggest advantage, having more money than the other guys.
D) Overpaid executives and managers covering themselves.  If suddenly all their big games did well on the Wii the investors or bosses would have to wonder why they have someone as the head who invested tons of money into unneeded technology, is slow to react to the industry and can't get out in front.  Now if the Wii is some enigma suddenly these people have a few bushes to hide behind, at least temporarily.

[NeoStar9X]

But this thread isn't so much about what Nintendo has done wrong, but how they are being done wrong.

A bit melodramatic, don't you think?  The only company I can think of that would even entertain the notion of using this engine in their Wii games is High Voltage, and they make their own ****ty tech.

Not really. It's really the situation at the moment. Actually it's been the situation since the N64 when SquareSoft as the story goes pretty much helped Sony in getting developers to pull support from Nintendo while backstabbing them in the process. It's part of why Square and Nintendo had their falling out for so long until Square came backing wanting to release their older games on the DS since they needed the money. 

This industry vs Nintendo thing has been going on for a while. All their excuses as well aren't valid either. I have a feeling as well that they some have to become furious when the Wii's sales numbers come out. There has to be some confusion as well with shareholders when they see the Wii's market share and then see they aren't making money on the system. If only they knew enough about gaming to question the type of games being put on the system. Then they'd understand. However the lack of knowledge in regard to shareholders works in the favor of those that lead these publishers/developers. I can only imagine how upset some people must have been when they had a look at the numbers New Super Mario Bros. Wii did.

[Ymeegod]

Actually Sqaure didn't backstab nintendo, it was NINTENDO that backed out of the CD wars while developers were already headlong into developing the games.   So what do you do?  Scrap a product was 10+ million already invested or find another outlet?  You might want to re-read Nintendo's-Sony-Phillips love triangle because it wasn't Square's or other developers fault at all.  If you give specs and hardware to developers but fail to deliever on your end then how can you say it was Sqaure's fault?

It wasn't like nintendo was going refund them developement costs neither.

---------------

[Chozo Ghost]

So the 360 is getting more releases in Japan the next quarter than the Wii is? This just doesn't make any sense at all!The PS3 getting more releases doesn't make sense, but this is ridiculous.

[broodwars]

So the 360 is getting more releases in Japan the next quarter than the Wii is? This just doesn't make any sense at all!The PS3 getting more releases doesn't make sense, but this is ridiculous.

Perhaps the Japanese 3rd parties have come the same conclusion most people have by now: if your name isn't Nintendo, your games aren't going to sell on the Wii even if they are good, quality titles.

And anyone accusing Nintendo of being wronged back in the 90s with Square shifting to Sony support really needs to re-read their history.  Compared to the Nintendo from back then, ours looks warm and cuddly.

[Chozo Ghost]

Perhaps the Japanese 3rd parties have come the same conclusion most people have by now: if your name isn't Nintendo, your games aren't going to sell on the Wii even if they are good, quality titles.

But that doesn't explain the strong support for the 360 in Japan. Consumers there don't support it, so why does the 3rd parties?

[broodwars]

Perhaps the Japanese 3rd parties have come the same conclusion most people have by now: if your name isn't Nintendo, your games aren't going to sell on the Wii even if they are good, quality titles.

But that doesn't explain the strong support for the 360 in Japan. Consumers there don't support it, so why does the 3rd parties?

If you look at that list, you'll see that the vast majority of those titles are Western titles now making their Japanese debut, not original Japanese titles.  Hell, one of those Japanese titles is a Wii port (No More Heroes) and another is a re-release (Resident Evil 5).

[TJ Spyke]

Actually Sqaure didn't backstab nintendo, it was NINTENDO that backed out of the CD wars while developers were already headlong into developing the games. So what do you do?  Scrap a product was 10+ million already invested or find another outlet?  You might want to re-read Nintendo's-Sony-Phillips love triangle because it wasn't Square's or other developers fault at all.  If you give specs and hardware to developers but fail to deliever on your end then how can you say it was Sqaure's fault?

It wasn't like nintendo was going refund them developement costs neither.

You need to go and actually read up on your history. First, Nintendo had announced in May 1994 that N64 (at the time it was still using the codename "Project Reality") would use cartridges. Square had not started developing Final Fantasy VII yet. In fact, they didn't even start PLANNING the game until April 1994 when Final Fantasy VI was released, and that was with the intention to release it on the SNES. Actual development on the game didn't begin until late-1995 (and Square officially announced that the game was going to be a PlayStation game in January 1996). And before you try and claim it would have been on the SNES CD-ROM add-on, no it wouldn't. Nintendo had cancelled the CD-ROM add-on in 1993, before Square even started planning Final Fantasy VII.

so I don't know where you got this "10+ million" figure from. The game was never being developed for any system other than PlayStation (NO, it was not for N64, that was a tech demo called "Final Fantasy SGI" and was designed to show what a Final Fantasy game could look like on N64, it was never intended to be Final Fantasy VII). Nintendo DID deliver on the specs they promised. Square backstabbed Nintendo, I don't see how non-Sony fanboys can claim otherwise.

[Ymeegod]

"Development of Final Fantasy VII began in 1994 and the game was originally intended for release on the SNES, but it was later moved to the Nintendo 64. As the system's cartridges lacked the required storage capacity, Square decided to release the game for the PlayStation instead."

Nintendo was working with Phillips (CDI) after it's fallout with Sony.  Phillips was going build an SNES CD based unit but it never seen the light--yeah Developers were making games for it and it was NEVER launched.

[TJ Spyke]

I was talking about Final Fantasy VII, as were you. Final Fantasy VII was NEVER going to be on the SNES CD-ROM add-on since Nintendo cancelled it before Square Soft had ever started PLANNING Final Fantasy VII. No company put serious funding into a game for it or even officially announced games for it.

Square started planning (which require no funding, it is just coming up with ideas) for Final Fantasy VII with the intention of it being a SNES cartridge game. By the time they actually started developing the game they had decided to make it a PlayStation game. It was never going to be a SNES CD game or N64 game and they sure as hell did not spend "$10 million+" like you claimed they had. As for Nintendo returning development costs, the only costs on Nintendo systems was the cost of the paper that Square was writing their ideas on. Are you trying to say they had spent $10 million on pieces of paper and ink? The actual development of the game did not begin until they had decided to make it a PlayStation game (which Nintendo only found out about when Square publically announced it in January 1996).

[KDR_11k]

Can we stop it with the 2 generations old console warring and focus on Epic again?

[Stratos]

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30155.25'

This thread has a full discussion going about the whole FF7-Cart conversation and it proves that there was no FF7 for the N64 or any FF. It's really not as dramatic as people make it out to be.

[ThePerm]

Next step is to start licensing properties from 3rd parties and develop them themelves....

Pac Man Vs.

[NeoStar9X]

Can we stop it with the 2 generations old console warring and focus on Epic again?

Sorry I brought it up. Didn't want to get distracted from the current topic at hand. Let's move on people.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'd like to hear a logical explanation for why Epic would work on the iPhone and not the Wii that doesn't involve them doing it because they hate Nintendo and want them to fail.

[Morari]

Unless Epic is giving away their engine, the UE3 iPhones are going to cost more than $32,000 to make.

Well, actually... http://developer.nvidia.com/object/udk.html

[BlackNMild2k1]

Unless Epic is giving away their engine, the UE3 iPhones are going to cost more than $32,000 to make.

Well, actually... http://developer.nvidia.com/object/udk.html

well, actually....

UDK is free for noncommercial and educational use. Licensing terms are available to those who wish to sell UDK-powered games or to create commercial products for business use at www.udk.com/licensing.

 
So we still don't know how much it would cost to license.

[MegaByte]

After reading the original article, it could just be that it was an easy port since the iPhone 3GS has OpenGL support.  Notice that it's not compatible with older models because they don't support that.  The Wii isn't OpenGL compatible either.  Nintendo's GX is similar, but would still require significant engine adaptations to support it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I thought OpenGL was one of Wii bullet points?
I could've sworn Wii had for support for it as I thought it was one of the things they changed from the GC days.

[SixthAngel]

I'd like to hear a logical explanation for why Epic would work on the iPhone and not the Wii that doesn't involve them doing it because they hate Nintendo and want them to fail.

Its not Nintendo they hate.  They hate the business model where consoles aren't high powered.  They also have a very close relationship with the xbox.  Don't  forget that Epic had so much control they got MS to increase the specs of the 360 for their games.