Topic: People want a Majora's Mask 2? It's already here

[Parallax]

So I just listened to the OoT 10th anniversary podcast (which was great btw). One thing that caught my ear, although this isn't anything new, and in fact seems has been getting more and more vocal, is the desire for wanting another  game in the Zelda series that's similar to Majora's Mask.


It's amazing to think that there would be such a backlash at something like Twilight Princess for being 'too similar' to Ocarina of Time. Sure, I could understand some people would be disappointed if they didn't like or hated Ocarina to begin with. But dang, I didn't think it would be THIS widespread!


In any case, I think people seemed to have missed something crucial in all this hubbub. The Majora's Mask 2 that many of you wanted has indeed already come out. The game is called: Phantom Hourglass. Oh, sure it's on a handheld, so it's not EXACTLY the MM2 that you may think, but it's pretty much the spiritual successor to that and Link's Awakening. Why do people choose to ignore this fact?

[Tanatoes]

Surely Phantom Hourglass is a Windwaker 2?  The key property of Majora's Mask is learning the events that take place over the course of the three days and then exploiting them.  I would love another game like that though.

[Parallax]

Let me clarify. When I meant a 'Majora's Mask 2', I meant a game that doesn't take place in Hyrule, that doesn't have Ganon, the master sword, the Triforce, and many of the Zelda cliches and such. In other words:

WW is to PH

as

OoT is to MM.

In fact, they seemed to combine the best aspects of both Majora's Mask and Wind Waker in PH. Thus making it the ultimate Zelda spinoff.

[Stratos]

I can see your point. Zelda direct sequels are a rare but typically pleasant occurrence.
Though my pet nostalgia monster tells me that Majora is better than Hourglass.

I would dispute the master sword claim because the sword you do get in Hourglass is acquired and used in a similar way to the Master Sword archetype. You have to get three special/magical/sacred items to unlock the ultimate sword (name slips my mind).

I also wouldn't compare it to Link's Awakening. But that is nostalgia monster talking again as well being that Awakening is my favorite Zelda game ever. I just love that Ballad of the Wind Fish 

Where would you rate Hourglass? Do you like MM and PH equally or do you have a preferred one?

[Tanatoes]

My favorite Zeldas are the GBC ones.  Awakening, Ages and Seasons all rock.  (Yes, I realize Awakening was a classic GB cart before the DX GBC version... and I own both.)

[Stratos]

Ages and Seasons were both really fun. I did prefer Seasons over Ages though. I don't remember why. It would be fun to do a double-dose RetroActive on the podcast where we played through both Oracle games.

Regarding handheld Zeldas, I missed Minish Cap for some strange reason.

@Parallax
What are the best aspects of Majora they drew upon for Hourglass?

[Mop it up]

Majora's Mask was an interesting side note in the Zelda series but ultimately its restrictive time system, lack of a "save anywhere" feature, and annoying dungeons kept it from reaching a special place in my mind.

The best direct-sequel Zelda game is Zelda II: The Adventure of Link.

*dodges ricks*

[Stratos]

I never did get to try it for more than a few times.
I want to eventually snag it on VC. Once I finish getting my kicks from Mega Man, Kirby's Adventure, Kid Icarus and Lost Levels (I limit myself to 4 VC NES games at a time due to size issues).

Also, I just noticed that you are a new member, Parallax. Let me be the first to say "Welcome to the forums"! 

[KDR_11k]

Surely Phantom Hourglass is a Windwaker 2?  The key property of Majora's Mask is learning the events that take place over the course of the three days and then exploiting them.  I would love another game like that though.

If they use the same idea again it won't be a new experience. The Zelda side stories provide many different experiences that the main stories can't do.

[NovaQ]

I agree with Tanatoes and KDR. Majora's Mask, while partly about being in a very different setting than Hyrule, was about the three-day setup. (Maybe the repeated dungeon in PH counts as similar? I never played it, but I would guess not.) And as much fun as it might seem to have a new version or sequel, I suspect that's my own "nostalgia monster" playing a trick on me; unless the three-day setup was greatly expanded or evolved, a sequel would simply make the original less special.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Majora did a lot of things better than a regular Zelda game, but also did some things worse. 

Better:  Environment feels alive and very real.  People come and go on their own schedule.  Dialog changes as the three days go on.  Music changes slightly and gets creepier as the third day draws to a close.  Huge dungeons that go on for eons.  Main quest is really built upon tons of side quests which is unique.

Worse:  Save system is a bit flawed, huge dungeons go on for eons, and there's only four of them. 

Well that's all I got.  Clearly, in my opinion, the better outweighed the worse.

[GoldenPhoenix]

My nostalgia monster says both PH and Majora's Mask need to fade away.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Aside from MM's awesome-o sidequests, the 4 main dungeons are probably the best Zelda experiences I've had.

The first time around, I collected all 15 funky fairies and completed the dungeons/bosses in one pass within the 3-hour slowed time limit.  Racing against the clock and CERTAIN DEATH CERTAINLY to defeat a boss with minutes before impact pushes your Zelda Fist to the limits.

We'll probably never see this kind of greatness from Nintendo again, considering their habit of cutting out dungeons, hand-holding, casualizing combat/damage/health, and Toilet Princess' 2-hour forget-me dungeons (riddled with handholding, unimaginative path design, and weak enemies).

Toilet Princess does have 2 decent dungeons:
Lakebed Temple - its best example of recycling old items/mechanics with a concentrated purpose
Snowpeak Manor - it was different enough without sacrificing too much of its intertwining path nature and had extra character personality

Oh, and no new Zelda this year or next year or the year after.

Nintendo is probably Wiimaking Wind Waker for 2010.  They probably think it didn't get the attention it deserves.

[Stogi]

Umm....While MM does have some great elements, people are forgetting the main attraction: the masks.

The first time you put on the Zora mask and go swimming almost surpasses the first time you took control of Mario and ran about the Castle courtyard. It felt natural; even without any objectives, it felt fun.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The masks are inseparable from the dungeons and sidequests.  They made everything better, like butter.

[vudu]

Majora's Mask, while partly about being in a very different setting than Hyrule, was about the three-day setup. (Maybe the repeated dungeon in PH counts as similar? I never played it, but I would guess not.)

Actually, this is about the only thing MM and PH have in common.  Both had timed aspects of the game that drew a lot of criticism from people who suck at video games.

[Stogi]

The masks are inseparable from the dungeons and sidequests.  They made everything better, like butter.

Ya your right. Still, it's worth mentioning.

I feel like MM was the real 3D Zelda. I'm not sure why, but while OOT was phenomenal, it really didn't feel as fresh as MM did and MM came after it.

Ooooooh can you imagine if MM was made first?

[Stratos]

The masks are inseparable from the dungeons and sidequests.  They made everything better, like butter.

Ya your right. Still, it's worth mentioning.

I feel like MM was the real 3D Zelda. I'm not sure why, but while OOT was phenomenal, it really didn't feel as fresh as MM did and MM came after it.

Ooooooh can you imagine if MM was made first?

I think Ocarina didn't feel as fresh because it it really a glorified 3-D remake of Link to the Past

My brain can't wrap around the idea of Majora first so someone else may have to brainstorm there. All I can imagine is Majora sequels. Or it could have been so different that people would have rebelled and hated the game.

My nostalgia monster says both PH and Majora's Mask need to fade away.

And as much fun as it might seem to have a new version or sequel, I suspect that's my own "nostalgia monster" playing a trick on me;

I challenge you guys to a Nostalgia-Mon battle! Super Mario Bros. 3, Go! Tanookie suite attack, now!

[DAaaMan64]

Umm....While MM does have some great elements, people are forgetting the main attraction: the masks.

The first time you put on the Zora mask and go swimming almost surpasses the first time you took control of Mario and ran about the Castle courtyard. It felt natural; even without any objectives, it felt fun.

I agree with this.

I also felt this way about the horseback riding and firing your bow and arrow at the hog riders in TP.

LOVE it.

[Ian Sane]

Phantom Hourglass does get the "different setting than Hyrule" right but it's too flawed in other ways.  There's that annoying time limit dungeon you have to go back to each time and the touchscreen controls are awkward and forced.  There's a great game in there somewhere but I'm not patient enough to discover it.  I really hate the controls.

What I liked best about Majora's Mask is the sidequests.  Too many Zelda games get into a rut towards the end of the game where there's little new to discover and just dungeon after dungeon left to do.  Dungeons are fun but are intense and difficult and sometimes you just want to do something a little less involving.  That's what sidequests and such are for.  Majora's Mask has tons to do when you're not in the mood for a dungeon.  MM is flawed though in that the dungeons are made extra stressful because of the time limit.  If time was somehow paused while in a dungeon it would really help the game.

But to me the best balance is Link's Awakening.  Most dungeons involve some non-dungeon objectives to complete to even access the dungeon.  Usually it involves a dungeon key.  So the pacing is balanced between dungeons and other content and the world is slowly uncovered so there's no part where you've done everything except two or three dungeons which you have to do in a row.

Though I also think that Majora's Mask's time travel elements are something that could be used in a different game.  A game that fully embraces that idea but doesn't feel the need to adhere to Zelda expectations could really do some cool stuff.

[Stogi]

Both OOT and MM used time. Of course there's a lot of cool stuff you can do with it!

[Stratos]

I think Ian is referring more to the three day time system that you could reset and they would replay all of their actions.

I always thought that the 3 day system would be great to have in a murder mystery type of game where you know a killer will strike in three days time and you have that much time to figure out who the killer is and stop him.

[King of Twitch]

I hope the next Zelda has a game breaking time travel glitch so you people will finally get it through your heads that adjusting circumstances in the space-time continuum is a seriously dangerous endeavor in real life, fraught with universe-destroying paradoxes and potential time line-wrecking pratfalls and not the heroic, wham-bam-thank-you-future-maam 10-hour video game romp through a fantasy land.