Topic: IMPRESSIONS: Wii de Asobu Metroid Prime

[TheYoungerPlumber]

I'll hopefully have more time to march through this game this weekend. I'm not sure an import review is warranted. If it turns out there's a crapload of new stuff I haven't gotten to yet (unlikely), maybe. We'll probably have a review of the North American version.

EDIT: I just noticed the morph ball jump by flicking the remote is also in this game. I added that to my impressions above. I forgot to check for it at the beginning before you lose your abilities because I totally didn't know about this move in Corruption until after I had beaten the game.

[Rize]

The final boss was the worst part of MP, it was more fighting the control (and the insane visor/weapon switching) instead of the actual enemy.  It'd be interesting to see how that battle handles with this control scheme...

I thought that was a solid boss fight, and the weapon switching was no worse than in the rest of the game (which trains you up real good for the final boss).  Also if you read all the scan visor notes, you had already formed a picture in your head of what Metroid Prime was like (and it probably looked nothing like what it turned out to be).  Then when you finally approach it and it looks like a skull hanging and then flips down into spider mode... that was some epic stuff there.  Man, what a fantastic game Prime was.

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Sadly my GC copy is at home in the US. I might be able to do a followup on your side by side difficulty q in two months when my parents visit.

No garuntees the NA and Japanese versions have ever had the same difficulty, though.

Funny you mention that, cuz in my mind Japan has gone soft, while the USA has gone casual.  How the difficulty modes compare is a curiosity.

How about this, tell me how many basic Power Beam shots it takes to kill the first bug on Tallon IV in the different modes on Wii?

I think you're onto something. I've been playing this game on "Normal" so far, and it really does feel like the bosses die too easily. I've gone back and started a new game in "Veteran" mode--the Parasite Queen seems to take longer to kill. The first bug that crawls out of the sand takes 5 hits to kill in Veteran Mode. I'll have to backtrack on my Normal game mode to check there....

In general combat is easier b/c of independent movement and aim, and free aim when locked on (after turning that option on). The spring jump when in your morph ball does make the morph ball puzzles easier. Whether or not this reduces how enjoyable the game is probably varies from person to person--I for one don't mind if the game is easier because it controls better. (I have no problems with the original GameCube's controls, but I like the Wii controls more.)

EDIT: Rize, you talk as if the game were dead! It's still epic now on both the GameCube and Wii. Hopefully people who never played it on GameCube will experience the awesomeness of MP1 now that it's on Wii. The third entry is nice and all, but the original's world is far more cohesive.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think you're onto something. I've been playing this game on "Normal" so far, and it really does feel like the bosses die too easily. I've gone back and started a new game in "Veteran" mode--the Parasite Queen seems to take longer to kill. The first bug that crawls out of the sand takes 5 hits to kill in Veteran Mode. I'll have to backtrack on my Normal game mode to check there....

The difference between Normal and Veteran in Corruption was 2.5X damage required in Veteran.  I predict your bug will take 2 hits in Normal.

[NWR_pap64]

You know, Ian's comment about these wiimakes being excuses for Nintendo not to make real games makes me wish Nintendo would explain more often how their development teams are assembled. The only instance we know which team is working on what is when we learned that Sakurai's Sora team was working on Brawl (they are composed of former members of other development houses) and that Nintendo Tokyo worked on "Jungle Beat" and "Mario Galaxy".

If people honestly believe that Nintendo put all of their best teams and men on this remakes and halted development of real games and follow ups you are going beyond cynical.

Here's how I believe these wiimakes are made:
- First, a meeting is made in order to see which games will receive Wiimake treatment. These I believe are chosen according to the following requirements:
* The game best lends itself to wiimake treatment
* The game was a title which received a Wii sequel and saw success
* It has both core and expanded audience appeal
* It didn't receive enough attention the first time around

- Once the games are chosen, they select a group of developers so they work on the wiimakes. Since these games are already completed the only thing they need is the original code and maybe input from the original team (unless this team is composed of the original staff).

- The team is then assigned to enhance the game's graphics, icons and visuals for widescreen support, map out the original button controls so they use motion and pointing features.

- When the game is nearly done, they tweak the gameplay, fix any errors, add new features and content (if the team allows it of course) and get it ready for print.

Of course I assume more than this happens during development. This might take around a year or two. If I am not mistaken "Twilight Princess" took a year to be ported over to the Wii, so I think the case might be the same with these wiimakes.

What I am trying to say is that its very likely that a small team worked on these remakes, meaning that Nintendo didn't halt any big projects just so these could get done.

I won't deny that these are filler releases in between their big killer apps (using Kojima's food simile, the "Play on Wii" series is the appetizer, or the snack you sneak in between meals, given to you before the main dish is served). But I won't be that cynical about it and say that these are also testing grounds for ideas that will likely be implemented on real titles.

For example, I have the hunch that Pikmin 3 will have the enhancements and ideas the Pikmin wiimakes have perfected (so far Pikmin 1 is the best reviewed title in the "Play on Wii" series).

[TheYoungerPlumber]

Well, the Metroid Prime remaike has about half as many names attached to it as the original credits. (Both are at the back of the manual.) Of course, I doubt nearly as many hours were put it per person.

[Mop it up]

My worriment with these Wiimakes isn't that they are taking up development resources, it's that they are going to delay or replace the release of sequels.

The Wiimakes of Pikmin 1 and 2 may exist because Nintendo wanted more time with Pikmin 3.

Metroid Prime 2 will probably be the last Metroid game released on Wii.

I've never played Chibi-Robo but it does look interesting, and the Wiimake probably means we won't see a sequel anytime soon.

Camelot doesn't seem interested in making any more Mario games which is probably why we're getting a Wiilease of Mario Power Tennis (which is sadly the least changed of the bunch). I doubt we'll see a sequel now, especially if the game sells well.

I don't know how to explain Donkey Kong Jungle Beat...

Pap64's theory about how these are experiments is an interesting one, and I hope that such good does come from this. Here's hoping this isn't the last we see of these various games!

[NWR_insanolord]

The thing is, though, Mop_it_up, that everything you said would probably still be true if the Play on Wii series didn't exist. The games that would be delayed would have been delayed anyway, and I would have doubted we'd get sequels to Metroid or Chibi-Robo even if we never got these. The one possible exception is Mario Tennis, but like you said it doesn't seem like Camelot would be interested and Nintendo has never developed any of the Mario sports games internally so I doubt it was likely.

[Mop it up]

True, there was already a small chance of sequels, but now there's practically none.
Although, what I am hoping for (to stay positive) is that if these Wiimakes are successful and popular, perhaps that will prompt Nintendo to create sequels at some point. Unfortunately what is likely to come from these games performing well is that Nintendo will release even more Wiimakes. Mario Golf, Wave Race, Star Fox Assault, 1080 Avalanche, Luigi's Mansion... I can only hope these aren't added to the list of Wiimakes.

It seems strange that Camelot appears to have no interest in creating more Mario games. Surely a new Wii Mario Golf game would have fared better than their own generic We Love Golf game. It's a real shame, because Camelot always made the best Mario games; they were great at instilling personality in the characters.

[Stratos]

True, there was already a small chance of sequels, but now there's practically none.
Although, what I am hoping for (to stay positive) is that if these Wiimakes are successful and popular, perhaps that will prompt Nintendo to create sequels at some point. Unfortunately what is likely to come from these games performing well is that Nintendo will release even more Wiimakes. Mario Golf, Wave Race, Star Fox Assault, 1080 Avalanche, Luigi's Mansion... I can only hope these aren't added to the list of Wiimakes.

It seems strange that Camelot appears to have no interest in creating more Mario games. Surely a new Wii Mario Golf game would have fared better than their own generic We Love Golf game. It's a real shame, because Camelot always made the best Mario games; they were great at instilling personality in the characters.

I think Camelot wants to break out of the 'we handle farmed out IP games' mold. They want to create original games that stand out instead of taking a back seat. How would you like it if you were only known for making Mario themed sports games?

And I hope that the Wiileases are kept to a minimum. Some of these games that didn't sell well are fine and dandy, but around the internets people are asking for Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion ports. I have an aversion to those two specifically because there is little room for legitimate motion controls and they already sold very well. I think Pap64's list of what qualified games for this series is spot on.

[MegaByte]

And I hope that the Wiileases are kept to a minimum. Some of these games that didn't sell well are fine and dandy, but around the internets people are asking for Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion ports. I have an aversion to those two specifically because there is little room for legitimate motion controls and they already sold very well. I think Pap64's list of what qualified games for this series is spot on.

Really?  Both of those games featured an item that you pointed around, which is exactly something you do with the Remote.  In particular, Sunshine makes more sense with pointer control than Galaxy did.

[NWR_insanolord]

Sunshine with Pointer FLUDD aiming and Galaxy's camera would be a must-buy.

[Stratos]

And I hope that the Wiileases are kept to a minimum. Some of these games that didn't sell well are fine and dandy, but around the internets people are asking for Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion ports. I have an aversion to those two specifically because there is little room for legitimate motion controls and they already sold very well. I think Pap64's list of what qualified games for this series is spot on.

Really?  Both of those games featured an item that you pointed around, which is exactly something you do with the Remote.  In particular, Sunshine makes more sense with pointer control than Galaxy did.

Maybe its just my bias seeping in on that one. I would rather see a new game w/ FLUDD and IR control. Though on my initial reflection I couldn't see much use of the Wii controls. Now that I think about it again, maybe. I'll have to go back and play it. Might be a good excuse to pick up the last shines and what have you that I never got around to getting after beating it.

I still stand by my opinion of Mansion not being a good fit. That game needs a total redesign to best use the remote. This is mostly an issue with the locked perspective. I can't imagine the pointer working like that very well.

[Mop it up]

I think Camelot wants to break out of the 'we handle farmed out IP games' mold. They want to create original games that stand out instead of taking a back seat. How would you like it if you were only known for making Mario themed sports games?

That would be perfectly fine by me, especially if said games were considered of high quality like Camelot's Mario games.

Does We Love Golf really stand out amongst golf games? To me it looks like it couldn't be more generic.

If Wii controls are a good fit for Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion then I want to see sequels based on these concepts. Obviously neither game was designed with the Wii controller in mind so they wouldn't use the Wii's features to their fullest. What I imagine for Luigi's Mansion is using two Wiimates, one pointer controls the flashlight and the other would control the vacuum. With the current design of the original Luigi's Mansion that type of control style couldn't work without a major retooling of the game, and if they're going to go that far they might as well create a sequel instead. Most importantly however, is that I've already played these games more than once; no matter how well the new controls would function, they're still the same games.

[Stratos]

If they did a Mansion sequel, it needs Ghostbuster style co-op where you work together. Have Luigi and Toad with some other 'second-tier' Mushroom Kingdom characters that are a ghost hit-squad chasing down boos and what-have-you.

[Spinnzilla]

why isn't there a Play it on Wii: Battalion Wars?

[Ian Sane]

If people honestly believe that Nintendo put all of their best teams and men on this remakes and halted development of real games and follow ups you are going beyond cynical.

Retro did work on these Wii-makes and the have only released THREE games since 2002.  They don't exactly seem like a huge company with tons of manhours to spare.  It isn't like EAD where several games are released each year.

The thing is there is a real example of Nintendo neglecting to give us new games because they could just make ports.  In 2002 Metroid Fusion was the ONLY first party GBA game released in the ENTIRE YEAR that wasn't a port.  During that year Nintendo re-released the old Mario games and A Link to the Past and remade Kirby's Adventure but aside from Metroid Fusion released NOTHING new for the GBA.  How is that not an example of Nintendo using remakes in place of real games?  I think the only reason we don't see that as much on the DS is because Nintendo ran out of stuff to remake.  No wait, we actually did see that on the DS.  Remember when the only first party launch title of the DS was... a REMAKE of Super Mario 64?  They fully expected us to buy a whole new system to play an N64 game.  Uh, yeah.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Ian you do realize that those games you mentioned are on handhelds right? I think Nintendo takes the "Let's let the 3rd parties take over". Not to mention they released Nintendogs, Mario Kart Series, F-Zero,  M&L1-3, PH, MPH, Kirby Canvas Curse, NSMB and various other new games for their handhelds as well so it doesn't come accross as a "Ports instead of new games" but instead "Ports or Remakes as stop gaps".

[NovaQ]

I tend to agree with the ports-as-stopgaps idea. Making ports might require taking a small amount of resources from the teams working on new games, but considering the massive gaps Nintendo home console fans have had to deal with in the past, it may not be a bad trade-off. Also, it seems with handhelds that Nintendo can actually afford to let 3rd parties take over after a while. On the console front, that's just not an option for them - though the situation is improving. (It makes me wonder what they would do if 3rd party support was abundant on both their handheld and home consoles. Would they just sit around getting richer, and then maybe design new consoles after a while?)

[GoldenPhoenix]

new games, but considering the massive gaps Nintendo home console fans have had to deal with in the past

Nintendo is a very large company they can make games at the same time. There more epic titles take a lot of time to develop, period, so there is little that can be done about the gap unless you want unpolished garbage to come out!

[Mop it up]

why isn't there a Play it on Wii: Battalion Wars?

My guess there is that BWii is still in stores and Nintendo doesn't want to cannibalize its remaining sales potential.

[Ian Sane]

so it doesn't come accross as a "Ports instead of new games" but instead "Ports or Remakes as stop gaps".

I just have less faith in Nintendo (or really any videogame company) than you I guess.  I don't see 11 months of no new first party GBA games or launching a new system with literally NO new first party content as just filling a stop gap.  It seems too deliberate, especially the GBA one since I can't imagine Nintendo being incapable of finishing any new GBA games within almost an entire year's span.  It takes less effort to recycle old content than make new stuff.  Nintendo is in a situation where they likely can get away with cutting corners I don't see why they wouldn't take it.

It's the company that brags openly about not offering a Player's Choice line with the Wii because they don't have to.  I love Nintendo as a game developer but they're selfish dicks.  They've jerked pretty much everyone around at some point.  So when I'm presented with a situation where it certainly seems like they COULD be jerking me around on purpose I assume they are.

Due to the amount of Wii-makes here I don't consider it just a stop-gap but a deliberate strategy.  Let's say one remake equals half a new game.  Well that justifies the use of it as a stop-gap.  But this is SEVEN remakes which could hypothetically equal three and a half new games.  Even if you make it a quarter or a fifth there's still resources here that could be put towards a new game.  Stop-gaps are when you release like one compilation of stuff each year not seven individual remakes in six months.  And then you also have a handful of "sequels" like those recent Mario sports games and Animal Crossing where the amount of "newness" is questionable.  A whole line of remakes plus some remarkably unoriginal sequels suggests to me a specific intention to try to sell me recycled content.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I predict...

Capcom will release Wii de Asobu Resident Evil Zero as the only "new" Resident Evil experience on Wii for the next two calendar years.

[Stratos]

I predict...

Capcom will release Wii de Asobu Resident Evil Zero as the only "new" Resident Evil experience on Wii for the next two calendar years.

I thought Capcom stated that Zero wasn't coming to the West.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You're confusing it with the WiiMake REmake.

Zero still has a chance to come out, and Capcom should be excited about another... PORT.

A Zero Wiimake could be released only in effing GREENLAND and it'd still count as a Resident Evil release in Capcom's eyes.  Really, nothing greater will come out of them for the next 3 years, cuz Monster Hunter 3 is staying in Japan.  They have no idea how to market and analyze their own Wii products, and they're focused on figuring out how to spend money on HD development.

Really, stick with Sega.