Topic: IT'S MAHVEL BAYBEE!! [OT] for the Marvel Cinematic Universe (Movies & TV)

[Adrock]

If Sony wants a Spider-Man movie every two years, Spider-Man: Homey Donā€™t Play That will probably show up in Phase 4. No Avengers would feel weird though.

Phase 5 is going to be wild with all the sequels that havenā€™t been officially announced as well as ā€œnewā€ properties like Fantastic Four, X-Men etc.

[Spak-Spang]

It seems like Marvel is testing moving phase 4 and perhaps 5 more into the mystical and magic. I think 2020 might be the epilogues of the Infinity Saga and move us into new ground. I think moving away from the cosmic for awhile would be good. I do think a good multiverse ending Saga to rebirth the MCU into a more traditional Marvel universe could be cool. Finally I feel like phase 4 has some questionable properties it is pushing. I an expecting this may bring us our first Marvel fail.

[Spak-Spang]

Who could Spiderman team up with?  Spiderman Daredevil could be fun. But the best answer is to give us Spiderman and Deadpool. They are great together. But probably too much for this movie. Hmmmm. Spiderman Hawkeye seems to work. Seriously Mr.  How did they let you on this team? 

[BlackNMild2k1]

and which Phase 4 property do you think will be that "fail"?

currently from all released so far, the MCU is averaging $1B per film.
how are you judging a "fail" going forward?

Black Widow will likely only be a $650M WW property (that's an amazing gross, but so mediocre for a MCU movie), hardly a "fail" tho.

I'm not sure what to expect from the Eternals, but with Jolie and Hayek in it, and it's rumored they are still pursuing Keanu Reeves... I figure it will do well enough.

Shang Chi will almost assuredly make B.O. Bucks on the China gross alone.
They likely won't cut this one off at the knees like they did Endgame (easily could've made another $60-$80M in China if they didn't cut it off early, could've passed Avatar weeks ago.)

Doctor Strange will most likely out do it's previous movie by a good amount.
Maybe not quite that close to $1B (a billion dollar "horror" movie.... could you imagine!?) but somewhere in the $800M's maybe!?

and then there is Thor.
Waititi back. Valkyrie back. Portland back and as Lady Thor.
I read something about Sif making a potential comeback as well.... $1B? not so sure about that, but bomb/fail... I highly doubt it.

So which are you predicting could be that first slip up since early Phase 1?

Who could Spiderman team up with?  Spiderman Daredevil could be fun. But the best answer is to give us Spiderman and Deadpool. They are great together. But probably too much for this movie. Hmmmm. Spiderman Hawkeye seems to work. Seriously Mr.  How did they let you on this team? 

Black Panther. Villain = Kraven (especially now that Peter's Identity is a known entity)
Goal - setting up the Sinister Six

Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, Mysterio, Kraven, (Doc Ock*)?

*created arms using Tony's tech to create Iron Spider legs. Yes, another Stark tech inspired villain.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Some Eternals art being passed out my Marvel at SDCC

The Celestials

[Adrock]

With the way Spider-Man: Homecoming ended, I donā€™t think it makes sense for Vulture to be part of the Sinister Six.

Also, maybe Adrian Toomes can be used to discredit what happens in the Far From Home mid-credits scene. ā€œPeter Parker took my daughter to Homecoming; and Spider-Man wasnā€™t some kid. I would know.ā€

[BlackNMild2k1]

He still has a daughter he die for. No one says he joins willingly. šŸ˜ˆ
He could be a reason that SM eventually gains an upper hand on the S6.

And in other news, here is some scrapped concept art from IW: Thanos and his fam


Potentially too be revisited in Eternals?

Edit :
Concept art for Black Widow

[BlackNMild2k1]

And a temp updated banner

[ShyGuy]

Isn't Far from Home phase 4?

I wonder if the Disney+ is going to weaken the draw of the MCU. It's great leverage for their new streaming service, but with these shows being much more connected than the Netflix shows, and not everyone watching them due to exclusivity, it's going to make it feel like it's okay to miss an instalment of the MCU. Before, I felt compelled to see every movie, now I can just watch the ones that really grab me.

[oohhboy]

Theyā€™re not mutually exclusive. Merely mentioning Negasonic Teenage Warhead and Yukio being in a same sex relationship (even if the point is to subvert expectations with a joke or two) is drawing attention to it. Not a bad thing, but also not what is being described. And if weā€™re being cynical, including it for a couple gags is the worst kind of inclusion. Want it to be ā€œjust thereā€? Let it be and move on. None of that dialog needed to be in Deadpool 2. If you saw the first one, you know Negasonic Teenage Warhead and Deadpool donā€™t like each other. If you didnā€™t, subsequent dialog accomplishes the same goal.

That's the thing, it got the ideas through without being a message. No one brought up a fuss. How you package it is just as important as the message. The message could be the most amazing thing ever but if it's wrapped in Ebola no one wants it.

I had to look up that piece of dialogue because them being lesbians wasn't something that stood out. A fat Maori kid as the villain? Sure why not. DP's Oscar bait speech. Vanessa being in control of her reproduction, hell yeah. It outright states that the X Men are an out of date 60's allegory on race. Domino is black in this version. There are **** loads more and no one got angry.

It didn't pander, didn't preach and if the lesbian line pulled out of context is all that you could come up with Ryan did a damn fine job. Thank you Canada.

[Shorty McNostril]

It didn't pander, didn't preach and if the lesbian line pulled out of context is all that you could come up with Ryan did a damn fine job. Thank you Canada.

This is precisely my point. That line made sense in the conversation. It was done and they moved on with the story.  If they do something similar in Love and Thunder it'll be fine. 

[ThePerm]

check out this clip from captain marvel 2

:D

[Adrock]

Domino is black in this version. There are **** loads more and no one got angry.

LOL. You should have googled this first.

Iā€™m glad you brought up Domino. Casting a black woman for a white character then not mentioning it even as a joke is exactly what Iā€™m talking about. Pander ā‰  draw attention, preach ā‰  draw attention.

To (desperately) fold this back into MCU discussion, Thor and Janeā€™s romance is a really important part of Thorā€™s arc in the first film. It puts him on the path of becoming worthy of Mjolnir again. Thereā€™s groundwork to continue that even if that part of Thorā€™s arc is complete. Invoking love in the title especially with the Lady Thor reveal has me a little worried that it could get heavy-handed. Taika Watiti has earned the benefit of the doubt so I remain optimistic that this isnā€™t some hack marketing to get woman interested.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Isn't Far from Home phase 4?

No, SM: FFH is the epilogue to Phase 3.
Feige even stated as much himself.

I wonder if the Disney+ is going to weaken the draw of the MCU. It's great leverage for their new streaming service, but with these shows being much more connected than the Netflix shows, and not everyone watching them due to exclusivity, it's going to make it feel like it's okay to miss an instalment of the MCU. Before, I felt compelled to see every movie, now I can just watch the ones that really grab me.

This gives you more reason to watch EVERYTHING on D+ and the movies as you know they are all connected. They even use the very same characters from the movies, similar budgets and quality as the movies, and in some cases tie directly back into the movies, possibly even bringing new characters from the shows back into the movies with them. So D+ should have the exact opposite effect of what you are describing.

When AoS first aired, they were promoting #itsallconnected, and AoS has great ratings at first as everyone was attempting to digest all things MCU. Then once it became apparent that the "connections" were thinly threaded at best and relevant only to the show, tons of people dropped off.
Same thing happened with the Netflix shows. They were originally touted as "canon" to the MCU and part of the same universe. But considering they vague references to the movie, nothing from the movies acknowledged anything that was going on with the shows, so it was easy to only watch the movies, and then just pick and choose what you want from any other non movie material.

Disney+ is supposed to be a cheap subscription (at least at first), so I think anyone that is interested in following the MCU will be able to. With this new material, you will know that if you choose to skip it, you will be missing something relevant to what is happening in the actual movies.

[oohhboy]

If you go through twitter enough you will always find a hot take some pseudo-journalist/troll will make hay out of See: James Gunn. There wasn't any PR gaff or asinine push I am aware off. I don't go around looking for it so if I hear about it it's loud enough to go through a couple filters.

The circles I run in I didn't hear a peep about Domino race. If there was something she clearly made the Wonder Women transition just fine. Domino is damn badass. Her character shouldn't work but Ryan managed it.

I think they are going to keep the MCTV disconnected to MCU. Simple reason it's makes for bad stories. If your show/movie isn't complete without some outside material you have fucked up. You can't ask people to go read/watch some other thing just to fill in a hole especially one you deliberately introduce as it is a money grab. Crossovers if done properly are exceptions.

Remember how god damn annoying the first two seasons of AoS was constantly name dropping New York or some other movie thing? Do you really want that in every show?

[BlackNMild2k1]

AoS was different because of how and why it was created.

They couldn't connect early on because they were waiting on WS bombshell to shake things up.
and Perlmutter and Feige weren't getting along, so the limits of connectivity were superficial at best, on the TV side almost exclusively because they were trying to ride the wave of the movie Hype.
Once Feige got Marvel Studios from under Marvel/Perlmutter, all connections were pretty much dead (outside of one last Fury crossover)

The Disney+ shows are different as they are created with connectivity leading back into the movies in mind. the shows themselves may be stand alone, but they are continuations of characters and storylines from the movies.

Loki - created from the **** up in Endgame - storyline picks up from there.
- it could lead to Loki appearing in a future movie... or if could just be a multi-verse funscapade

WandaVision - takes place after Endgame and directly connects to next Doctor Strange. You want to see the progression of Scarlett Witch and why they call her the Scarlett Witch, and how that ties into her appearance in DS, well, then you're gonna have to tune in.

Hawkeye - what was Hawkeye doing during that 5 year break? Ronin... what brought that about. Kate Bishop, who's that and why is she training to be the next Hawkeye? I assume they both appear in a future movie, so if you want the back story, gonna have to tune in.

Falcon & WS - Falcon will show up in the next movie as "Captain Falcon", him and Bucky will likely be the bestest of friends, and to see how that developed.... well, you gonna have to tune in.

Agents of SHIELD had none of these connections.
It was a show trying to weave it's way into the mythos of the movies while telling a parallel background story that had no real connection to the events in the movies. It progressed no relationships, no characters, nor triggered any events that affected the movies in any way shape or form.

It's going to be completely different, and #itsallconnected won't just be lip service this time around.

I feel bad for AoS, C&D, Runaways, and MarvelNetflix, but they will likely never (definitely never in the case of the Netflix shows) be integrated unless Marvel Studios takes over production of the shows, or takes over Marvel TV.

[BlackNMild2k1]

This is unrelated to the last post, but I know most of us don't know much about Cosmic Marvel (myself included)

I just want to give a sample of where it appears the MCU is about to go.... and it's about to go waaay out there.

First a list of the Heriarchy

The Eternals / Deviants - the "super-powered" offshoots of different races created by the Celestials.
Gods of the Mortal Realms - your Ares, Thor, etc. Also, many alien races have their own gods.
Heralds of Galactus - Silver Surfer, Terrax the Tamer, Nova (not the buckethead).
Skyfathers - aka the heads of the Mortal pantheons - Zeus, Odin, etc.
Elders of the Universe - cosmic beings who have transcended mortality - the Collector, the Grandmaster, the Stranger.
Greater Demons and Devils - Mephisto, Dormammu, Nightmare, Shuma-Gorath, in their own realms they are omnipotent and absolute
Elder Gods - Gaia, Chthon, Set, Atum, they're like uber-gods.
The Celestials - on the level of cosmic gods, they reshape entire worlds at will.
Galactus - a survivor from a previous universe and filled with terrible purpose, Galactus is borderline abstract level and is wholly unique.
The Abstracts - Fundamental concepts of reality given form. Master order and lord chaos, Love and Hate, Infinity, Eternity, Death, and Oblivion.
The Living Tribunal - the entity charged with judging the balance of all realities.
The Beyonders - unfathomable entities that live outside existence itself (the Secret War guy was a scrub).
The One Above All - Jack Kirby.

the Celestials:


the concept art from SDCC:


a vid to explain more: https://youtu.be/QjCI_gPWUSk

Galactus and the Celestials (Galactus is not a Celestial - see the hierarchy list)


a reference from GotG for Infinity, Eternity, Death, and Oblivion


and more characters both referenced in the MCU and upcoming (Eternity, The Watcher, Living Tribunal, Ego, and more)


and just as Scarlett Witch said on stage, things are about to get weird.
so we about to dive deep into that Marvel Lore in the next 3 phases. I hope y'all ready!!!

[Plugabugz]

The circles I run in I didn't hear a peep about Domino race.

It did in mine, and with Anna Diop in Titans and Halle Bailey's casting in The Little Mermaid and John Boyega in The Force Awakens...

[UncleBob]

I still don't get the Titans issue.  It's not like they could have picked an orange skinned person to play her.

[ShyGuy]

Don't forget Eson the Searcher already showed up in Guardians.

[Spak-Spang]

I also think these Disney+ series are miniseries. I am guessing they will take a very British take on TV. One or two series and tell a single story and end. Disney is throw grade A talent into these series and blowing out the budget. They need the hype to get the subscribers. The best thing to do would be to do a series end. And then develop a nee story. Leave the movies for the big storylines. I could see Xmen introduced on Disney+ with an Xmen movie doing a big storyline ir even an Avengers vs. storyline.

[oohhboy]

It did in mine, and with Anna Diop in Titans and Halle Bailey's casting in The Little Mermaid and John Boyega in The Force Awakens...

Who and what now?. Slightly kidding. Don't know **** about Titian. No one gave a **** about Halley Berry Halle Bailey's casting in The Little Mermaid as it's just product.

John Boyega was oh hey, black stormtrooper. One thing that did stand out with him was from TLJ he had clearly gotten the shortest of sticks. He was clearly meant to be be with Rey, turned into a seat warmer, set his character back to square one, stuck with Rose, double shame fighting Phasma again. When Finn said "Why did you do that?" that was really Boyega crying out. I felt a little sorry for him as he was the only thing of value in TFA. Everyone else can jump down one of those bottomless Death Star shafts.

AoS also has another bigger problem, they fight Avenger+ level threats. Does Coulson get a dial tone everytime  he calls for help? Last season he go some randos after calling in a favour, seriously?. Not ending the world is what made Aida season so good.

[Spak-Spang]

BnM:  I think Eternals is unproven and actors are not a sure fire way to success anymore.  It used to be, but many famous people have been in movies that Hollywood has considered failures.  Strange and Black Widow will be successful because they are sequels/prequels and established characters.  I am a comic book fan and Eternals and Shang-Chi are not characters I know of, nor do they really appeal to me right now.  They need to sell them as interesting.  And no, they are not the same as Doctor Strange or the Guardians, because Doctor Strange name is more known, and Guardians followed a formula people knew...the space opera. As for the Disney+ I think all of those shows will do fine as long as people sign up for the service.  Disney needs to be smart and keep it cheap enough for anyone to subscribe it will be fine.  Disney+ already seems like a hell of a value, and I am only sad that I am in Korea and can't subscribe.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well, I put Eternals in the same boat as any other Marvel property not named Spider-Man so far.
relatively unknown, but given the benefit of the doubt because Marvel Studios has more than earned it at this point.

Guardians you say used a formula. I don't really know what that formula is, but it starred a talking raccoon and a walking tree. Marvel sold the **** out of it. I think Eternals will be just fine.


and in other news, here is a look at Baron Zemo in the upcoming Falcon and the Winter Soldier



with and without the mask
and here is the concept art from Civil War

[Adrock]

ZEMO WEARS THE MASK?!!!?!?!!?!??

Inject this show right into my eyeballs.