Topic: Virtual Console Development Kit

[Brookslyn]

Hi Folks,

Does anyone know how to legitimately develop for the Wii Virtual Console? I think there is a huge potential for nintendo to cater to gamers that want to develop... the only game programming experience I have is x86 assembly language programming... but I can code in Pascal, C, C++, Java, Javascript, VBA & PHP.

Here are the questions I've got...

1. Is there going to be a dev kit?
2. Can we write something for an emulator and somehow port it over?
3. How can we get it onto the Wii (wireless... but what protocol)?
4. Do we need to be selected by nintendo? Do we need some sort of reputation with gaming?

Please discuss!

I hope to get a FAQ going on development if this doesn't already exist somewhere...


-Felix

 

[KDR_11k]

I'm not sure you'd really develop for a system emulated by the Virtual Console rather than the Wii itself so you'd need the devkit.

[thejeek]

I wonder how you get a devkit - I'm guessing the requirements are much laxer than for the full Wii devkit.

Full devkits usually need (at least)
 - publishing deal
 - previously developed titles
 - business plan
 - code
 - wads of money

I expect they've relaxed or removed some of these for the VC devkits. I wonder which ones? I'd be interested in trying to get a devkit - I miss the days when one person on their own could roll up a game engine, the game itself with all the assets in under a year and still be back in time for tea!

[Dirk Temporo]

You missed what KDR said. Since the VC is basically a big emulator for NES/SNES/N64 games, you'll need a dev-kit for one of those to make a game.

[Frozen Atlantic]

You know, I'm not a programmer, but a lot of the stuff in newer games are new idea instead of new tech. I suppose one could apply the newer RPG innovations to a SNES-style RPG and do very well.

Gamers have a longer attention span for character and story, ROMS got bigger towards the very end of the SNES era, you could probably do a Judgement Ring or ATB...

[thejeek]

Quote
You missed what KDR said. Since the VC is basically a big emulator for NES/SNES/N64 games, you'll need a dev-kit for one of those to make a game.

Surely Nintendo will supply some sort of updated devkit for VC - I doubt the original devkits for the consoles VC supports are available outside of a museum. I'd imagine they'll supply something like a PC build of the various emulators plus PC ports of the relevant toolchains - they must have something like this for internal use anyway if they're planning on releasing updated versions of any VC titles.

[obscureownership]

Quote
Originally posted by: thejeek

Quote
You missed what KDR said. Since the VC is basically a big emulator for NES/SNES/N64 games, you'll need a dev-kit for one of those to make a game.

Surely Nintendo will supply some sort of updated devkit for VC - I doubt the original devkits for the consoles VC supports are available outside of a museum. I'd imagine they'll supply something like a PC build of the various emulators plus PC ports of the relevant toolchains - they must have something like this for internal use anyway if they're planning on releasing updated versions of any VC titles.

I agree with this. Nintendo isn't going to send people Nintendo 64 dev kits. They are going to be sending out working emulators with some Wii extentions. If I were a developer wanting to make a VC game, I would just find the best n64 emulator and get a basic mechanic down on n64 hardware until more info comes out of Nintendo on VC development, that's probably your best option right now, because surely by the time you have created some sort of basic idea Nintendo will be releasing some information on the VC dev kits.

[Nephilim]

im sure nintendo has software kits, they would of been used to port snes games to gba
but im sure they will be careful to who they give them too

[Frozen Atlantic]

Prolly not. I know Nintendo talks about indie developers making games for the VC. I'd suggest writing a homebrew game for emulators...

the dev kits won't be free,though, that's for damn sure. I'm sure they'll be relatively cheap though.

Honestly, indie devvers making new games for old systems is maybe the MOST interesting thing on Wii.

[thejeek]

Quote
but im sure they will be careful to who they give them too

I thought it was confirmed that Nintendo were going to support new development for VC from indie developers?

[EDIT: add quote]

[Frozen Atlantic]

Yes. But they haven't given specifics. I don't think.

If the OP is serious, I'd suggest writing a design doc and getting to work with an emulator. By the time you're in the begin stage, Nintendo will have concrete details.

[thejeek]

Quote
If the OP is serious, I'd suggest writing a design doc and getting to work with an emulator. By the time you're in the begin stage, Nintendo will have concrete details.

Agreed - whatever the requirements, having some concrete ideas and getting to grips with the target hardware isn't going to do any harm. Alternatively it might be even worth simply starting to code something for the PC - you can always port it to VC later if you're careful to keep it clean and within the capabilities of the platform you're aiming at.

[Brookslyn]

Great comments so far...

I like the idea of just starting a game and I'll probably just start fleshing out stories and ideas in some sort of design doc(also suggested).

I'm wondering if it makes sense to get a few folks together to program basic games in Java, on-line, etc... so as to build up a portfolio.

Maybe we should create a list of emulators for the different systems... does anyone know of emulators that indie developers prefer?

PC-Engine/Turbografx-16 :: MagicEngine
NES :: Nesticle
SNES :: SNES9X
N64 :: ??
SMS ::
Genesis :: Gencyst

Saturn :: is this supported by vc?
Dreamcast ::  is this supported by vc?

Will we be able to put Turbografx-CDs into the Wii and run them through the VC?

-Felix

[Frozen Atlantic]

Seems to me that the SNES would be a perfect console for indie devvers to work with. Increased sound quality. Graphic style beloved by your old school audience. No pesky pixels or 3D programming needed. No wrestling with N64's crappy textures. You can do it with a small team...

[obscureownership]

Quote
Originally posted by: Frozen Atlantic
Seems to me that the SNES would be a perfect console for indie devvers to work with. Increased sound quality. Graphic style beloved by your old school audience. No pesky pixels or 3D programming needed. No wrestling with N64's crappy textures. You can do it with a small team...

You don't have to make n64 games 3d. In fact, the n64 is probably easier to work with because you'd have to cut a lot of corners to maintain a steady frame rate on the Snes. Also, N64 uses a hardware more standard compared to the SNES in relation to today's modern hardware, aka, more documented hardware.
 

[Jensen]

Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
You missed what KDR said. Since the VC is basically a big emulator for NES/SNES/N64 games, you'll need a dev-kit for one of those to make a game.

KDR said exactly the opposite.  

The Virtual Console is not an emulator, it is a service.  The only reason it is on the Wii, and not the Cube, is that the Wii has storage and networking built in.  It offers older games through emulation, of course, but new games won't be tied to any emulator.  It is harder to develop a simple game for the NES/SNES/N64 than it is to develop a simple game directly through the Wii dev environment.

[thejeek]

Quote
The Virtual Console is not an emulator, it is a service.

There seems to be some confusion over exactly what Virtual Console is here. Is it not both an emulator *and* a service? My understanding was that Virtual Console is basically the combination of:
 - a suite of emulators for older Nintendo hardware
 - some licensing and publishing deals that allow Nintendo to sell the back catelog of games previously released for this hardware (as Nintendo don't necessarily own the right to re-publish this stuff on new hardware)
  - network infrastructure to push this stuff out to Wii users
  - means for collecting electronic payment.

They also suggested that they'd publish indie games targeting Virtual Console. I'm pretty sure that what they meant by this was that, as well as distributing these games over the VC network and charging for them electronically, these games would have to target the older hardware Virtual Console supports. I don't think they were proposing giving these indie developers full access to the Wii hardware. I'd like to be wrong here - anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

[Jensen]

One of my favorite computer games recently is a freeware game called "Cave Story".  It is a platformer/shooter with NES/SNES style graphics and sound.  Even though it looks simple, I'd imagine that it would be much harder to develop it as a SNES game... It would require lower-level programming.

[thejeek]

I agree it would probably be easier to develop for the Wii than for the SNES or N64. Maybe Nintendo will allow access to the naked Wii hardware via VC - I'd love to see this and I think it would be good for us gamers. However, I just don't see how Nintendo can keep Wii publishing firmly under their control if they allow development on real Wii hardware by large numbers of unscreened developers and Nintendo are very big on control in general and on keeping control of their hardware in particular.

Does anyone know how the cheaper downloadable content available on Xbox Live for the 360 is developed? Do people need a full 360 devkit to produce it?  

[EDIT: clarified]

[Jensen]

You'll need a development kit.... They still won't let just anybody create VC content.  They will be just as much in control of VC games as games on discs.  Hopefully they will seek out shareware publishers, or a least make it easier to get a dev kit.

A lot of the Xbox Live Arcade games were (and still are) PC shareware before they became VC titles.

[ThePerm]

contact www.garagegame.com

[Brookslyn]

I took a look at that site... pretty awesome looking.

www.garagegames.com

seems like a perfect place to start... if not publish through!

Anyone actually make a game using this?

BTW - How legal would it be to make a game based off of a nintendo property but not actually using it? Ie alluding to it... for example, a game starring the brother of kid icarus or something like that.

-Felix

[BlkPaladin]

When I talked to Nintendo about this, the Wii development is what they offered. Also they suggested I try to get a hold of the Gamecube development kit since they will be getting some back after they ship out the Wii kits.

As of right now the Torque Engine and the 2DTE (which is still in beta) doesn't support the Wii, you would have to know the inner workings of the Wii to make it work. But it is a good gde to make demos to send into Nintendo to see if they are interested in publishing it onto the VC service.  

[Brookslyn]

Thanks. I just touched base with my friend in the industry and the dev kits apparently are rather inexpensive, however acquiring one as an unestablished developer is impossible. He suggested developing for X360 marketplace first. Oh yeah, no real info yet on development for the Virtual Console.

-F

[Kairon]

Has anyone cared to peek at this?

http://developer.popcap.com/

Popcap games is a major casual game's market publisher and developer know most of all for their "Bookworm" casual game. Here they provide their basic game engine FREE because they're desperate to find developers who have creative ideas. Apparently Popcap games can't meet the demand for casual games, and welcome submissions using their game engine so that they know who to hire!

So, with this engine, not only do you have a chance to get popcap to hire you into the industry, but you also have a chance to develop a simplistic game the likes of which are already on XBoxLA (Wik, for example, is an indie game from another casual games developer: Reflexive) and may be welcomed onto the Virtual Console.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com