Topic: REVIEWS: Punch-Out!!

[walkingdead]

you know Mario games aren't the same thing over and over again.  punch out to super punch out had many many different boxers.  this only has one, I'm not saying this is bad.  i was going to buy this game any way... and I'm sure I'm going to love it, all I'm saying is i don't think this game is a 10 due to the lack of innovation.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I think he is making fun of the modernist.

NOW I WILL POST ABOUT PUNCH-OUT.

Even this review hasn't convinced me to buy this game. I understand why reviewers like Neal and Kohler like it, but they were already massive fans of the series. I enjoy parts of NES Punch-Out but would never call it one of my favorite games. I don't see what this new game has, other than waggle which doesn't appeal to me, for people unfamiliar with Punch-Out or who weren't the biggest fans of previous games. It doesn't sound like they have made the gameplay any more forgiving, which was always the barrier to my interest. Title Defense mode sounds really cool, but I fear that I would never get that far.

I'm in a similar boat: I've only played the original Punch Out, and that was many years ago and even then it was only something I toyed with every now and then.  I'd get a few matches in, have a good time, and then I'd get my ass kicked by one of the later fights and rage quit.  Fast-forwarding to the present, the new game looks interesting but it doesn't look like it goes out of its way to convert people who weren't massive Punch Out nuts in the past.  A co-worker brought a copy in to work yesterday, and it really looks fun...but fun for how long?  It just doesn't seem like there's a lot to do in that game besides repeatedly fight the same 13 characters over and over again, and I just don't see that being worth $40-$50.  When this game drops to something like $30 I'll probably pick it up, but I just don't see anything in the game worth gushing 10s about (other than the terrific graphical style and animations).

There are people called "arcade gamers" who value the joy of execution as the entertainment itself; ie. players who don't mind direct objectives as it creates a focus for general practice and honing SKILL.  They enjoy the core actions and look at you funny when you call it "repetitive."  Each repetition is simply another round of FUN.  It's repeated cuz they want MOAR.

Just admit you're not one these people before these Punch-Out reaction posts become... Repetitive... assuming we're supposed to take these seriously.  Gaming is inherently repetitive, and the reactions vary from person to person.

Fun fact:  I have no fondness for menu-based-turn-based gameplay.  I seek challenges involving realtime decision-actions.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"However, in my book, a 10 is just too high"

This game is no 10, it's a CORNERSTONE OF AWESOME.

[D_Average]

I recommend everyone take a listen to RFN #63 "What Makes a Game a 10/10".  Classic.

[broodwars]

I think he is making fun of the modernist.

NOW I WILL POST ABOUT PUNCH-OUT.

Even this review hasn't convinced me to buy this game. I understand why reviewers like Neal and Kohler like it, but they were already massive fans of the series. I enjoy parts of NES Punch-Out but would never call it one of my favorite games. I don't see what this new game has, other than waggle which doesn't appeal to me, for people unfamiliar with Punch-Out or who weren't the biggest fans of previous games. It doesn't sound like they have made the gameplay any more forgiving, which was always the barrier to my interest. Title Defense mode sounds really cool, but I fear that I would never get that far.

I'm in a similar boat: I've only played the original Punch Out, and that was many years ago and even then it was only something I toyed with every now and then.  I'd get a few matches in, have a good time, and then I'd get my ass kicked by one of the later fights and rage quit.  Fast-forwarding to the present, the new game looks interesting but it doesn't look like it goes out of its way to convert people who weren't massive Punch Out nuts in the past.  A co-worker brought a copy in to work yesterday, and it really looks fun...but fun for how long?  It just doesn't seem like there's a lot to do in that game besides repeatedly fight the same 13 characters over and over again, and I just don't see that being worth $40-$50.  When this game drops to something like $30 I'll probably pick it up, but I just don't see anything in the game worth gushing 10s about (other than the terrific graphical style and animations).

There are people called "arcade gamers" who value the joy of execution as the entertainment itself; ie. players who don't mind direct objectives as it creates a focus for general practice and honing SKILL.  They enjoy the core actions and look at you funny when you call it "repetitive."  Each repetition is simply another round of FUN.  It's repeated cuz they want MOAR.

Just admit you're not one these people before these Punch-Out reaction posts become... Repetitive... assuming we're supposed to take these seriously.  Gaming is inherently repetitive, and the reactions vary from person to person.

Fun fact:  I have no fondness for menu-based-turn-based gameplay.  I seek challenges involving realtime decision-actions.

There's nothing wrong with simple Arcade gameplay (remember, I bought House of the Dead: Overkill and quite enjoyed it), and as I've said before I enjoy the core Punch Out gameplay.  However, that core Arcade gameplay is not worth $40-$50 on its own.  This game just feels like a product Nintendo just threw out there with minimal effort (outside of the modelers and animators) in an attempt to appeal to people who just want to play the NES game again with prettier graphics.  They couldn't even be bothered to get their own peripherals (Wiimote + nunchuck, balance board) to work responsively with this game, or to even add simple subtitles on-screen whenever a foreign-language fighter is talking on-screen.

[NWR_Neal]

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth? This feels like another Boom Blox where people write it off because of the price without playing it.

The game does not have the same tells as previous games. Similar, yes, but it changes the formula.

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

[broodwars]

Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.

Actually, to be quite honest I am quite sick of Ridley repeatedly rising from the grave every time I kill him.  This is a series that has probably the most story-based mythology of any of Nintendo's core franchises, yet they keep reviving Ridley (and Kraid in Super Metroid) without any real explanation most of the time.  The series could probably do fine without metroids for a few games as well.

[D_Average]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

[broodwars]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

Just to add to that, even Brawl added several weapons, the Final Smash, and (mediocre, but present) Online Play.  There's also that level editor.

[D_Average]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

Just to add to that, even Brawl added several weapons, the Final Smash, and (mediocre, but present) Online Play.  There's also that level editor.

But that still wasn't enough.  Brawlz was 9.5'd

[NWR_Lindy]

My impression before playing this game is 9/10.  There's no way I'd give it a 10, because I don't feel like they've done anything overly revolutionary with the concept..  But it does look like a REALLY good update of the original concept.

I agree with 9.5 for Brawl.  I'd dock a half-point for the lagtastic online.

[broodwars]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

Just to add to that, even Brawl added several weapons, the Final Smash, and (mediocre, but present) Online Play.  There's also that level editor.

But that still wasn't enough.  Brawlz was 9.5'd

Now now...let's not get into that argument.  Different strokes, different folks.  Besides, the online play in that game was certainly garbage enough for me to dock it .5 points.

[NWR_Neal]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

...but this isn't a fighting game. At least by the typical manner.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I still don't understand why people find a problem with having the same characters in the game.
I have a great idea, let's make the next F-Zero have none of the original characters. Captain Falcon? Screw that. Who needs Samurai Goroh?
Man, I can't wait for Metroid without Ridley, Mother Brain, or Metroids.
Better yet, let's make a Star Fox game without Star Wolf. Oh wait, they did that... (Star Fox Adventures).

Per Wikipedia:
"The original Super Smash Bros. had 12 characters, and the number rose to 25 characters in Melee and 35 in Brawl."

Thats what we're trying to get at.  Fighting games should always increase in characters and levels.  Keeps things fresh as you can't just change the core gameplay every time.

...but this isn't a fighting game. At least by the typical manner.

Punch-Out!! at its core is more of a Rhythm game wrapped in fighting clothes. All I have to say for those that are complaining about not enough chances being taken with the game or that its gameplay mechanics are simple, go play Bionic Commando for 360 and PS3 that was just released and see what happens when you try to do to much and lose the soul of a game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth?

Its not on PS3 so it sucks automatically.

[NWR_Neal]

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth?

Its not on PS3 so it sucks automatically.

I appreciate your honesty.

[broodwars]

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth?

Its not on PS3 so it sucks automatically.

I'm going to assume that was directed at me.  Go ahead, find a post where I say this game sucks.  Go ahead, try.

[D_Average]

I'm just playing about the 9.5, not a big deal.

Not a fighting game?  Last time I checked, when two dudes are smashing each other in the face with upper cuts, most people consider that a "fight".  Its no Street Fighter, but you can hold them to similar standards.  Speaking of, Capcom made a similar move with Street Fighter this year.  Spruced up the graphics, tweaked the gameplay just a bit, but added a handful of new characters, stages and online play.  I'd be more comfortable in giving SF4 a 10.

[GoldenPhoenix]

the new game looks interesting but it doesn't look like it goes out of its way to convert people who weren't massive Punch Out nuts in the past.  A

The prime Mario series has never went out of its way to convert people, it is what it is. There is NOTHING wrong with that and besides I think Punch-Out!! has ALWAYS had both a core appeal and mainstream appeal that "going out of its way" would ruin it.

That's not really a valid argument: the Mario series is designed around abstraction and varied gameplay.  At any one point you could be doing a multitude of different tasks, all of which require a different way at looking at how you play the game.  This Punch Out is identical to the old punch out aside from the new multiplayer mode, right down to (from what I hear) the exact same boxer "tells" that clue the player in on when to strike.  Hell, judging by the way my co-workers struggled with King Hippo yesterday, even the difficulty is the same.  The core Punch Out gameplay is very fun, but it's not like Nintendo couldn't have added elements to the game to add some variety to the experience.

The Mario games are designed around the same gameplay mechanics. In regards to the same tell, you automatically invalidated yourself right there because they may share some of the same tells in the NORMAL tournament but in the title defense they do not. Also I'm tired of hearing about watching your coworkers, how about you actually sit down and play the game, beat Title Defense mode and unlock some extra then maybe some of us will take you more seriously because frankly it sounds like you don't have any idea what you are talking about with some of your complaints, or at the very least they are based on minimal exposure to the game.

[Jonnyboy117]

I'm not trying to prejudge Punch-Out, say it isn't worthy of Neal's score, or complain about the number of characters or features. I just don't see what about it could make me like it more than I liked the previous Punch-Out games, which I have on Virtual Console and almost never play.

[GoldenPhoenix]

you know i havent played this game yet but with that being said i can think of a few reasons why this isnt a 10.  the only one im going to list is there is only 1 new boxer, other than that its the same game we played for ever.  if they weren't going to give us a new experience why didnt they do that 5 6 7 years ago?

How is there being one new boxer a bad thing? We don't bitch about how Mario games reuse enemies.

In all honesty, I can hear some arguments from other people about this not being a 10. I think Jonny's comment is one of them. The difficulty can be rough, but NLG threw in the headgear and practice mode to help that out.

Regardless of all that and whatever else is said in this thread, Punch-Out!! is a 10 for me. I didn't think it would be going into it, but this is truly one of the best games I've played in a long time.


To GP's last comment: Exactly!

I do want to comment on this one new boxer thing, if you play the original Punch-Out!! and this, the boxers may share the same likeness but they have very different personalities for the most part or at the very least strongly EVOLVED personalities. Not to mention as you progress in the game they have VERY different fighting styles, while they may share the same name and basic artistic design they are pretty different. It is like Mario games that have the same enemies, but used in different situations or reimagined a bit for a next generation.

[Peachylala]

Punch Out!! is 2009's Super Mario Galaxy.

I <3 it to peices. SUPER MACHO MAN LOCOMOTIVE MEWBS ARE BACK HOLY **** D8

[NWR_Neal]

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth?

Its not on PS3 so it sucks automatically.

I'm going to assume that was directed at me.  Go ahead, find a post where I say this game sucks.  Go ahead, try.

I didn't say you said it sucks, I said

I'm curious. Who has actually played the game before making judgements about its length and worth?

D_Average - I wouldn't say this is a fighting game in the same way that Brawl or Street Fighter is. It's like comparing Paper Mario to Dungeons & Dragons or some other better comparison.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm not trying to prejudge Punch-Out, say it isn't worthy of Neal's score, or complain about the number of characters or features. I just don't see what about it could make me like it more than I liked the previous Punch-Out games, which I have on Virtual Console and almost never play.

My guess is that you won't like it if you couldn't get into the original. I'd compare it to Guitar Hero or something, if you didn't like the first game in the series you probably aren't going to like the sequel. I'd even go as far to say that if you loved Super Punch-Out!! but didn't like Punch-Out!! you won't like this game (I'm the opposite, I don't care much for Super Punch-Out!! but have a lot of love for the original). Next Level had a tough choice but personally I think they made the best one by staying close to the mechanics of the original, which was simple to control and "learn" but very hard to master. It appears I'm not the only one either considering the stunning (far better then I expected) scores it has been getting from most outlets.

[D_Average]

Super Punch Out still remains not only the best game in the series, but the best game in the history of games.