~ Dragon Quest IX comes out on March 28th... ~ Dragon Quest X art/details come out in next week's Shonen Jump... ~ Dragon Quest IX DSi
Well that's pretty much it...I don't think any other info was revealed at Squenix's Dragon Quest press event, but I'll try and find some...
Now really, did anyone NOT see this coming?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 10, 2008, 12:39:03 AM
what was revealed?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 12:41:16 AM
Dragon Quest IX comes out on March 28th...
Dragon Quest X art/details come out in next week's Shonen Jump...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: nitsu niflheim on December 10, 2008, 12:43:53 AM
okay, for minute the way you said it was like something awful was going to happen.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 12:52:52 AM
AGH! That was it? No Wii news. I was whipping myself up into a frenzy, my bloog started pumping and my bloog pressure started rising upon reading this thread title, I was going into fight or flight mode....GAHGAHGAH
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 12:57:05 AM
What? Dragon Quest X IS for Wii, you goon...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Caterkiller on December 10, 2008, 12:58:09 AM
I really havn't been paying attention to anything lately so this was a huge fantastic surprise for me! Were lots of hints droped befor? why is no one else surprised?
Then again, as the leading console I did see it coming eventualy.
Fantastic!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 01:00:28 AM
Okay, back to fight or flight mode for me. I guess there's no sleep for me tonight. Now if only I could find an original source for a news story aside from "Bill Aurion on the fourums told me so....."
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 01:01:40 AM
Good luck reading Japanese, though... (http://gemaga.sbcr.jp/)
I really havn't been paying attention to anything lately so this was a huge fantastic surprise for me! Were lots of hints droped befor? why is no one else surprised?
Wii is killing the other two consoles in its home country, where a clear majority of DQ sales are made...Not to mention that Yuji Horii has mentioned many times in the past that he'd love to develop for the Wii...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on December 10, 2008, 01:11:43 AM
Well DQ:X on Wii means that Wii won Japan forever (even though it wasn't struggling there to begin with).
Pictures of the event with a special guest of Iwata (http://gigazine.net/index.php?/news/comments/20081210_dragonquest/)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 01:16:23 AM
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Adrock on December 10, 2008, 01:25:05 AM
Nintendo just palmed Sony's face and pushed it away......... in Japan.
Now, if Chrono 3 would come out on the Wii, Nintendo will win everything everywhere all the time forever.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 10, 2008, 01:28:38 AM
Wow this is Awesome News.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 10, 2008, 01:39:14 AM
How much does everybody think sales of the Wii will go up in Japan?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 01:45:04 AM
*shrug* Dunno. It's gonna be a struggle for the Wii to climb to 20 mil in Japan. I think lifetime sales might peter out below that, maybe 15 mil?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 10, 2008, 01:54:41 AM
Ok answer this. How much of those sales are attributed to this news?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 10, 2008, 01:58:05 AM
DQ X...ALREADY?
This IS big news indeed! Can we officially declare this the Wii's first real major RPG?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 02:07:56 AM
Poor Tales...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: BeautifulShy on December 10, 2008, 02:13:37 AM
There has been RPG's released and announced like TOS:DotNW,that mothership Tales game,Fragile,Arc Rise Fantasia, MH3.
As Kairon said Tales gets left in the shadows.Its sad.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 02:15:55 AM
Amazing news. Though I have to wonder, since Wii sales will drop down to nothing because the fad nears a close, how will Square recoup their development costs? Don't they realize the Wii has NOTHING to look forward to and is being sold to local pawn shops all over the US?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 10, 2008, 02:16:35 AM
So did Yamauchi have to use his Yakuza connections to make this happen?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: ShyGuy on December 10, 2008, 02:18:47 AM
Come on FF13!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 02:23:18 AM
And guys, I know the Wii has a lot of big RPGs. I was talking in terms of hype. As you can clearly see, the news has generated a lot of talk. DQ is a big series, and the Wii recieving a canon game is big news. So yeah, I was talking in terms of hype.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 03:07:59 AM
I really do hope Kingdom Hearts 3 comes to Wii. Maybe Square-Enix could do something creative with the controls (without ruining the game with waggle)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 10, 2008, 03:21:44 AM
Come on, how could you call this the "first real RPG"
Good point. Paper Mario has been out for quite a while.
What about ToS?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Urkel on December 10, 2008, 03:54:15 AM
Well, this is it. This is the turning point for the Wii that establishes it as an RPG powerhouse.
Of course, I'm not the least bit surprised by this news. Only that they announced it before DQ9 was even out. I guess Iwata must have pushed SE to announce this as early as possible in order to gain momentum with 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 03:56:33 AM
Well, this is it. This is the turning point for the Wii that establishes it as an RPG powerhouse.
As a turning point, this comes pretty late in the game. We're about half through the expected 5 year console life cycle, and given how long RPGs take to develop, I can't honestly expect some the level of RPG support on the Wii that the PS2 got.
Well, this is it. This is the turning point for the Wii that establishes it as an RPG powerhouse.
As a turning point, this comes pretty late in the game. We're about half through the expected 5 year console life cycle, and given how long RPGs take to develop, I can't honestly expect some the level of RPG support on the Wii that the PS2 got.
Only if you're thinking in terms of Final Fantasies and Star Oceans and whatnot. But for smaller franchises? I don't think it's too late. I'm pretty confident the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series and others like it will migrate over to Wii.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 04:04:42 AM
Well, this is it. This is the turning point for the Wii that establishes it as an RPG powerhouse.
As a turning point, this comes pretty late in the game. We're about half through the expected 5 year console life cycle, and given how long RPGs take to develop, I can't honestly expect some the level of RPG support on the Wii that the PS2 got.
Only if you're thinking in terms of Final Fantasies and Star Oceans and whatnot. But for smaller franchises? I don't think it's too late. I'm pretty confident the Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series and others like it will migrate over to Wii.
Yes please!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 10, 2008, 04:08:46 AM
I really do hope Kingdom Hearts 3 comes to Wii. Maybe Square-Enix could do something creative with the controls (without ruining the game with waggle)
Its likely to happen. Disney likes the Wii. They are a family oriented company. The Wii's a hit with families. With the Wii being the biggest console around the world and getting a lot of RPGs KH3 on Wii is possible.
I think they should do the battle system like in "No More Heroes". Use the A button to slash' motion controls for special moves.
Kairon; While the Wii might not be an RPG powerhouse it has received more RPGs than the GC did in its lifetime. An improvement to say the least.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kenology on December 10, 2008, 09:17:02 AM
Holy... what a WednesdayTON to wake up to! Awesome!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 10, 2008, 11:37:56 AM
So did Yamauchi have to use his Yakuza connections to make this happen?
Behold, the result of all of Yamauchi's Fund yaQza efforts!
fixed?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 10, 2008, 12:57:04 PM
Quote
Now really, did anyone NOT see this coming?
Um, me? ;)
Hell you could argue all the "the Wii is selling is so awesome so third party support has to improve" you want but the truth is it wasn't happening, despite how logically it SHOULD have been. This was a complete surprise to me. Now this makes tons of sense but I still wasn't expecting it.
And Tales is small potatoes compared to this. Admit it. Tales of Symphonia was a big deal on the Cube because it was a big fish in a small pond. And that's not even bad. That's a good strategy. When the big guns of your genre are on one console go to another and you'll stand out. It's the "Dead or Alive is a big deal on the Xbox" routine.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Khushrenada on December 10, 2008, 01:10:08 PM
It surprised me because I don't think DQ 9 is even out yet. Or is it?
I love the picture of everyone holding hands. Who looks the most unexcited?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 10, 2008, 01:58:12 PM
So did Yamauchi have to use his Yakuza connections to make this happen?
DQ always goes to the most selling system.
I wonder which will come out first, DQX or FF13... I bet S-E are kicking themselves already over FF13.
But seriously, announcing X before IX is released?
Yeah, that's why I get the feeling that Yuji Hori let it slip when he really wasn't supposed to. But hey, I'll take it now!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 10, 2008, 07:35:21 PM
I don't see a sudden glut of RPGs coming to Wii after this, but hey, I'll play Dragon Quest on whatever platform they put it on.
I think when it's all said and done, DQ X will be the "third-party big game" exception rather than the rule. It's always been Squenix's non-graphics-driven mass-market RPG, so putting it on DS/Wii makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 07:37:08 PM
I don't see a sudden glut of RPGs coming to Wii after this, but hey, I'll play Dragon Quest on whatever platform they put it on.
I think when it's all said and done, DQ X will be the "third-party big game" exception rather than the rule. It's always been Squenix's non-graphics-driven mass-market RPG, so putting it on DS/Wii makes perfect sense.
Monster Hunter 3. The end
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 10, 2008, 07:40:10 PM
Monster Hunter 3 is mass-market as well. Putting these games on Wii just makes sense...but I think there's a reason why you don't see games like Shin Megami Tensei on Wii, for instance. I think the general opinion is that those types of hardcore RPGs just wouldn't appeal to the Wii userbase.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 07:46:13 PM
So Dragon Quest is now casual...Now we can add that to the list of hardcore-games-turned-casual-thanks-to-retarded-labels behind Mario Kart and Smash Brothers...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Deguello on December 10, 2008, 07:48:49 PM
That's just desperate, Lindy.
Dragon Quest IS RPG in Japan. Much moreso than Final Fantasy. There will developers right now slating RPGs for the Wii just because Dragon Quest X has been announced on the Wii. The Wii's sales will spike up just because of this announcement, just like it did on the DS.
This is a major turning point, especially for Japanese RPG developers who have yet to find much success on the 360 or PS3, despite repeated attempts.
Quote
I think the general opinion is that those types of hardcore RPGs just wouldn't appeal to the Wii userbase.
It's amazing what becomes "casual" once it lands on Wii or DS.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 10, 2008, 07:52:27 PM
You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on. Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13). The Wii is selling by the truckload. The Wii isn't as powerful graphically as everything else out there, but it can spit out some tasty-looking visuals if pushed correctly.
Sounds like a no-brainer to me. It doesn't have anything to do with casual or not casual. It has everything to do with putting the most popular game on the planet on the popular console on the planet.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 07:53:29 PM
Quote
Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).
You must tell me how FF13 plays since you know that is what the visuals will be like!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 10, 2008, 07:56:12 PM
Whatever GP, you know what I'm saying...Dragon Quest has never tried to keep pace with the Final Fantasy series from a visual standpoint. They've always been more focused on having a manga look than trying to achieve the visuals of a CGI movie.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 08:00:28 PM
Whatever GP, you know what I'm saying...Dragon Quest has never tried to keep pace with the Final Fantasy series from a visual standpoint. They've always been more focused on having a manga look than trying to achieve the visuals of a CGI movie.
The funny thing is that the FF series has far more mainstream appeal, ESPECIALLY in the US.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Deguello on December 10, 2008, 08:01:42 PM
Final Fantasy has never kept pace with Final Fantasy. The notion you believe of Final Fantasy's "visual stewardship" is a complete myth. FFXIII is the outlier for the whole series, a graphical showcase when EVERY SINGLE OTHER TITLE was on the weakest hardware and meant to be "mass market," which means it was to sell title to consumers to make profit. Not to please 4 EGM subscribers and their editors.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 09:03:11 PM
It's sort of a given that we're not getting FF13... but... umm... I'm confused about what we're arguing about, lol.
It almost sounds as if we're defining core as anything that's NOT mainstream, and Wii-worthy as anything that IS mainstream?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 09:04:34 PM
Hell you could argue all the "the Wii is selling is so awesome so third party support has to improve" you want but the truth is it wasn't happening, despite how logically it SHOULD have been. This was a complete surprise to me. Now this makes tons of sense but I still wasn't expecting it.
I tried telling you third party support was on the way. They assumed the system would be a failure so they didn't support it early on, and when it became a success they finally did a 180 and started making games... but game development is VERY slow. It can take months or even years, so that's why there was the 3rd party drought from launch up to now.
But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.
That being the case, aren't you wondering what OTHER Wii projects third parties have up their sleeves but haven't revealed just yet? I'm sure there's many others that have been in development since 2007 that could be revealed at any time and then be released immediately. Trust me Ian, if you were surprised by this then you are going to be even more surprised when the curtain is lifted over whatever else is in the 3rd party ovens...
You just have to remember quality games take time. The crap party non-games take very little time to throw together, but good stuff like DQ takes much longer. And now that we're over 2 years into the Wii's life we're finally going to start seeing more quality work and less rush jobs and half-ass crap games for grandmas.
THIS is a GREAT time to be a Wii fan, and 2009 is going to be the year where the Wii reaps the fruits of its success. Just mark my words. All these studios which are silent are up to something...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Arbok on December 10, 2008, 09:48:37 PM
You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on.
And then these consumers throw away their Wiis? You seem to be ignoring the fact that with this "shiz-ton" of sales comes a "shiz-ton" of people who now fall into the "RPG userbase" willing and ready on the Wii.
Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).
And so if they do... what? Why throw tons of money at something to compete on the basis of "having to have cutting-edge graphics" when you could spend less and go for a system that, because of two games with larger built in userbases, will also appeal to your titles?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 10, 2008, 09:58:24 PM
But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.
I do have to say this is very unlikely, unless Level 5 isn't developing it...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 10:11:32 PM
You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on.
And then these consumers throw away their Wiis? You seem to be ignoring the fact that with this "shiz-ton" of sales comes a "shiz-ton" of people who now fall into the "RPG userbase" willing and ready on the Wii.
Actually, that's what lots of Japanese RPG fans have been doing to the XBox 360. They buy the console when an RPG comes out, beat the RPG in a couple days, then sell both items back almost immediately. In this case, you can't count on the hardcore to be faithful, ironically. Hopefully DQX will "cement" the Wii as the console to OWN and KEEP, and it won't experience this sad pattern.
Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13).
And so if they do... what? Why throw tons of money at something to compete on the basis of "having to have cutting-edge graphics" when you could spend less and go for a system that, because of two games with larger built in userbases, will also appeal to your titles?
It isn't always about sales. I think they see FFXIII as a game that needs to be epic, needs to be visually cinematic, and needs to push those boundaries. Until you can change that internal psychology about the FF series (just as the internal psychology for the DQ series poo-poos realistic graphics), there would be difficulties in moving the mainline FF series to the Wii. That's why SE invented Crystal Chronicles: to help them re-imagine what sort of fantasy world and corresponding strictures and values they could place on Nintendo consoles.
But you can be sure this Dragon Quest sequel they just announced has been in the pipeline for months or maybe a year or more. If it is coming out in March of next year that means its very long into the development process and is almost near completion. They announced it just recently, but they've been at it for awhile.
Have you got DX IX and DQX confused? DQX is like, waaaay in the future. DQ IX is finally coming out... what, 1.5 years after it was announced?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Arbok on December 10, 2008, 10:32:44 PM
Actually, that's what lots of Japanese RPG fans have been doing to the XBox 360. They buy the console when an RPG comes out, beat the RPG in a couple days, then sell both items back almost immediately. In this case, you can't count on the hardcore to be faithful, ironically. Hopefully DQX will "cement" the Wii as the console to OWN and KEEP, and it won't experience this sad pattern.
Yes, the Gamecube experienced a similar fate. However, I would say neither the Gamecube or the 360 were able to get a title of the same caliber as Dragon Quest or... really even the third Monster Hunter (after how big that series has become on the PSP) in regards to RPGs.
It isn't always about sales. I think they see FFXIII as a game that needs to be epic, needs to be visually cinematic, and needs to push those boundaries.
That's FFXIII though. What system that is slated for is already a foregone conclusion. I assumed we were talking about the RPG genre as a whole? I agree that Square probably feels that way about FFXIII... but not that other developers will see their titles in the same light and will somehow shy away from the Wii because they can't make "cutting edge" RPG titles.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 10:53:57 PM
I assumed we were talking about the RPG genre as a whole? I agree that Square probably feels that way about FFXIII... but not that other developers will see their titles in the same light and will somehow shy away from the Wii because they can't make "cutting edge" RPG titles.
Ah! I get you now. Yeah, I agree.... which is why it's more imperative than ever that Nintendo secure the Persona series.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 11, 2008, 01:07:47 PM
Quote
That being the case, aren't you wondering what OTHER Wii projects third parties have up their sleeves but haven't revealed just yet? I'm sure there's many others that have been in development since 2007 that could be revealed at any time and then be released immediately. Trust me Ian, if you were surprised by this then you are going to be even more surprised when the curtain is lifted over whatever else is in the 3rd party ovens...
I would love to be surprised. The only thing is Dragon Quest IX hasn't even come out yet so when is Dragon Quest X due? I don't think this announcement is any indication that the game has been worked on for years. DQIX didn't just pop out on the DS a few months after it was announced. It's more likely Nintendo just wants this info out ASAP to get some extra sales out of it.
And Dragon Quest is such an obvious core game. Though the funny thing is in Japan it's like the big mass-market mainstream RPG and here it's the more niche hardcore RPG that only diehards play.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 11, 2008, 03:00:11 PM
You have a game that will sell a shiz-ton no matter what console it's on. Its entire existence isn't predicated on having cutting-edge graphics that blow everything else in the industry out of the water (e.g. FF 13). The Wii is selling by the truckload. The Wii isn't as powerful graphically as everything else out there, but it can spit out some tasty-looking visuals if pushed correctly.
Sounds like a no-brainer to me. It doesn't have anything to do with casual or not casual. It has everything to do with putting the most popular game on the planet on the popular console on the planet.
Er, can you tell me how that makes anything else not a no-brainer for a Wii release? Yet there's tons of "HD"-exclusive games on the market that the Wii isn't seeing even though it's a no-brainer to release stuff on the most popular console. There's no reason for the DQ series to exhibit more sanity than the rest of the market.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 11, 2008, 10:36:45 PM
The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks. It never has and it never will be. That makes it a perfect fit for the Wii, a console that is at its best when it's pumping out stylized visuals like, oh, say, the cel-shaded graphics of Dragon Quest VIII.
If you're looking to make a game that has a massive world with the most realistic/detailed graphics out there, you aren't going to make it on Wii. That's not me bashing the Wii, that's just a simple fact.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 11, 2008, 10:40:04 PM
If you're looking to make a game that has a massive world with the most realistic/detailed graphics out there, you aren't going to make it on PS2
Man, I need a time machine so I can go back in time and tell XBox the good news!
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 11, 2008, 10:42:53 PM
If you're trying to say that the difference between the PS2 and Xbox is comparable to the difference between the Wii and PS3/360, I want some of what you're smoking, Bill.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 11, 2008, 10:53:21 PM
It's called logic...I've got plenty to spare, but you might be resistant to the effects...
And yes, PS2 was inferior to XBox and Gamecube...Enough that if game developers were so insistent on creating "a massive world with the most realistic graphics out there," they would have developed for them instead (take comparing the pitiful PS2 version of RE4, for example)...But the fact of the matter is, they didn't...They have always developed for the market leader, which always has happened to be the weakest system...But now graphics suddenly matter this gen? The consumer has spoken, and if third party developers don't want to take advantage of that marketshare, then well, so be it...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Mario on December 12, 2008, 09:56:10 AM
Silks, you're a retard. Sorry but it's the facts, you can't argue with such a burden on your nuts. Nobody is going to take it seriously. If a wild Emu came up to you and asked you if you wanted a coffee, would you tell it Dragon Quest 8 was OK? No.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: RABicle on December 12, 2008, 09:59:16 AM
If you're trying to say that the difference between the PS2 and Xbox is comparable to the difference between the Wii and PS3/360, I want some of what you're smoking, Bill.
YOu played that third Splinter Cell game didn't you?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Deguello on December 12, 2008, 11:14:07 AM
While I don't necessarily agree with Mario making a direct personal insult, I think the tone was set by the insinuation of Bill as a drug user for disagreeing about whether PS2's worst looking games looked generations apart from the Xbox and GC's best looking games. It's easy to miss such personal attacks in the heat of the argument.
And Mario, don't use "retard." It's fraught with meaning and the sufferers can't help it.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 11:24:03 AM
I have to agree with silks on the differences. In my opinion, the power difference between say, the Wii and the PS3, is closer to the power difference between the N64 and the GameCube.
It's just, the rate of improvement isn't as noticable due to the fact that the Wii can show enough polys and what not to make models look smooth... if you get what I'm saying. But, yeah, if we are talking raw horsepower, I think Lindy is close to the mark.
If anything, this just proves that there is a lot to be said for what Nintendo's main point is. Power isn't as important anymore BECAUSE the GameCube could make stuff so pretty.
I mean, look at the two most obvious places the Wii comes up short to the PS3 and 360 in my opinion.
1. Being able to run at HD resolutions. 2. Potential Number of characters on the screen.
Notice how neither of these are poly count, which was all we cared about going from n64 to GameCube.
So yeah, regardless, I think Nintendo obviously made the right decision by, what is in essence, skipping a generation as far as raw computing power goes.
That said, I don't think this strategy will continue to work in future gens, and by that I mean, I don't think they can afford to fall more than one generation behind. So the next system better be more powerful and run in HD... but I'm sure it will.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 12, 2008, 11:25:06 AM
Final Fantasy on the PS2 relied on a lot of trickery like baked textures and FMVs to create a great looking game, the system's power wasn't much of a factor. The series doesn't have to be on a powerful console to do its job.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Deguello on December 12, 2008, 12:08:28 PM
I disagree Pale. The gap between the PS2 and the GC/Xbox was just as if not larger than the gap between Wii and 360/Ps3. Launch Ps2 games like Kessen and Micro Machines look Generations apart from launch GC games and Xbox games, even more so than their final 2005 projects.
And if you don't mean graphics, then there really isn't a "performance gap" as perceivable by regular and even hardcore gamers, because computational performance is intangible to the naked eye. There isn't a difference between paintings if everyone in the room is blind.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: RABicle on December 12, 2008, 12:24:02 PM
Half Life 1 came out on the PS2. Half Life 2 came out on Xbox.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 12:32:26 PM
Ya know, I think I'm wrong too... it probably isn't as extreme as N64 to Cube, but I think it's significantly larger than PS2 to XBox.
Also, Lindy's original comment is really comparing the PS2 to say the 360... as he was saying that the PS2 still has the largest market share... at least that's how I read it.
Whenever this argument comes up, people need to realize which basis ther people are using for the argument. So many people get so heated about this...
For example, one could just be arguing whether the low power decision was good for Nintendo as a company. I don't see how anyone could argue agains that.
However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player. For example, every time I play my PS3 I wish the Wii could make my HD TV look just as pretty. Every time I see screenshots of big PS3 titles like White Knight's Chronicles or FF 13, I imagine how great a Zelda that is that pretty would be. I'm one of the gamers that would have paid 500 bucks for a super powerful Wii... so for me, I can't help but wish they did it. =P
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2008, 12:46:31 PM
"I'm one of the gamers that would have paid 500 bucks for a super powerful Wii."
Niche gamer. Get with the times, kay.
Wii's low power consumption ruins its utility as a space heater. Nintendo really doesn't understand families' needs during winter in the Northern Hemisphere.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 12, 2008, 02:22:19 PM
Quote
However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player.
YES! For some reason it seems so hard on this forum to get this concept across. Nintendo can make all the fistfuls of money they want but if they do so in a way that alienates me from them and results in a console I'm lukewarm to well I'm not going to be pleased about that and I have every right to be.
I would have paid what the Xbox 360 costs for a Nintendo console with comparable graphics capabilities and a not-stupid controller easily. I would likely be a little peeved that the price of gaming in general has gone up but it wouldn't be like Nintendo was the oddball, ripping everyone off. Hell when one complains about the lack of core games a common suggestion is to buy another console as if being expected to suppliment the Wii with another console is perfectly acceptable. If Nintendo hadn't skimped on the hardware and thus cost a little more those games that show up on every console BUT the Wii likely would be released on the Wii and thus we would only have to buy ONE console and drop about $400 instead of buying TWO and having to drop $600 for the same lineup.
The savings of the Wii are largely a myth. You only save money if the Wii is your only console but because of the compromises that had to be made to get the lower price the Wii doesn't have many games it almost certainly would have had otherwise and thus it is ill-suited to being one's only console.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2008, 02:53:13 PM
YEAH, NINTENDO IS REALLY ALIENATING... ME.
WII IS MY ONLY CONSOLE AND I HAVE NOT SEEN THESE "SAVINGS" YET, ESPECIALLY BUYING 30+ FULL PRICED GAMES.
WHAT ABOUT MY NEEDS, IAN? I'M BUYING SO MANY AWESOME GAMES ITS BECOMING PROBLEMATIC.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 03:00:38 PM
However, one could also be saying that the low power decision was bad for THEM as a player.
One could, but I definitely won't.
Graphics are all well and good, but I have NEVER been a Nintendo fan because of technical wizardry. I'd take Earthbound over FF7 anyday, and personally rank Zelda: LttP over Majora's Mask. I may count the graphically powerful N64 as a golden age, but it was because Nintendo was reinventing their franchises with every major release in those days. Now Nintendo is pursuing innovation as much as ever, games today are exploding in new and different forms (I can't wait for games to rediscover jigsaw puzzles, as I fondly remember a puzzle game on the SNES which was basically jigsaw puzzling with powerups), and I am excited for once about what surprises lie around the corner.
I know not everyone out there is like me, but I measure my relationship with Nintendo by whether they can continue to surprise me and make me believe in an ever-renewing gaming world with radical wonders around every corner. (Ironically, the GameCube was a major disappointment for me in this regard) Whether those surprises involve bald space marines is a really a trivial concern.
Oh, but for the record, I have nothing against bald space marines. It is simply coincidence that neither Turok, nor Joanna Dark, nor the great Duke Nukem himself, are bald.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 12, 2008, 03:02:03 PM
Quote
not-stupid controller easily.
Ian please shut up.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 12, 2008, 03:07:18 PM
Nintendo can make all the fistfuls of money they want but if they do so in a way that alienates me from them...
Whoa, stop right there...I don't think even the mighty Iwata could unravel the paradox that is your gaming tastes...You complained about lack of online titles, which they fixed...You then ignored that and complained about a lack of original titles, which they fixed...You ignored THAT and complained about a lack of original HARDCORE titles, which they FIXED AGAIN, and you IGNORED IT...AGAIN! Just admit it, you alienate YOURSELF from NINTENDO, not vice-versa...
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: vudu on December 12, 2008, 03:13:08 PM
The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks. It never has and it never will be.
I don't know about you, but Dragon Quest IV and V for DS look pretty fucking fantastic to me. They're arguably two of the best looking games available for the DS.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 03:20:42 PM
The Dragon Quest series isn't about setting graphics benchmarks. It never has and it never will be.
I don't know about you, but Dragon Quest IV and V for DS look pretty ****ing fantastic to me. They're arguably two of the best looking games available for the DS.
Hmm... this is a concerning thought. Is SE changing the way they approach the DQ games? Is SE going to start injecting eye-candy-desire into the DQ series?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2008, 03:26:44 PM
For those saying that they would have paid over 400 bucks for a hi-end Wii...are we quick to forget that the reason the PS3 got a bad start was because it was priced at 600 bucks and offered nothing the 360 or hell, even the Wii couldn't pull off? It was deemed too expensive, even for the hardcore gamer who would literally spend thousands trying to create the ultimate gaming rig.
And if Nintendo did create an HD Wii priced at 400 or 500 bucks you guys would have complained about it being too expensive and criticized Nintendo for pulling such a stupid move.
Its amazing how gaming has become so incredibly shallow that the first thing people consider in a console is graphics. And these same people have the nerve to call the NES "the best system ever" when the Master System had MUCH better graphics and sound.
As Kairon said very well Nintendo has never been about graphics or sound. Its been about gameplay and execution. Take Ocarina of Time. It uses a MIDI soundtrack, yet its incredibly moving and more powerful than the games that use an orchestra nowadays.
Animal Crossing has very simple graphics that has NOT changed since the N64 days. Yet, it adds a lot of charm and we simply can't imagine AC looking otherwise.
Yes, there have been beautiful Nintendo games, like Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country and even Mario 64 when it debuted. But they all became masterpieces because the gameplay was so solid any visual representation gets sent back.
Did we already forget that Twilight Princess, a "mature" looking Zelda title that looked amazing, was poorly received by the core because it was "more of the same"? Yoshi's Story was a beautiful game, yet it was criticized for being too easy and too short. Finally, didn't we criticize the GC for releasing pretty versions of old N64 games?
Zelda II featured better graphics than Zelda I, but the gameplay wasn't as memorable and for some, it was incredibly broken. Yet "Link to the Past" had some basic Mode-7 effects and small sprites, but its considered the best Zelda game ever.
Mario 3 is by far the best Mario game ever. True, it was a significant graphical step up from Super Mario Bros., but the reason its such a great game was because of the thought, heart and imagination that went into creating this game. Hell, Mario World looked 10 times better but many still see 3 as the best.
So its mind boggling to see would be "Nintendo fans" saying that the Wii should be like the 360 and PS3 in terms of power and would gladly go broke buying one when they have been growing up on the belief that graphics are worth jack sh*t if there isn't significant gameplay behind it.
Guys...there will never be a Wii HD. The current Wii is far too successful with gamers and non gamers for Nintendo to take it back and update it in order to meet the absolutely ridiculous standards of a few bitter gamers. Rather than wishing every day the Wii would be like the 360 ENJOY it for what it is; a GAME system. A system for everyone to enjoy. And before you say "but there aren't any games" shut up. Last I heard, games were still being released on the Wii, and many of them are worth playing at least ONCE, so stop trying to begrudgingly prove a stupid point and PLAY WITH YOUR TOY (yes, because every game system, including the 360 and PS3, is a toy meant to be played with).
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2008, 03:33:14 PM
How come when pap makes an extremely long post I like it and when everyone else does it I hate it? I agree with everything he just said except the part about LttP being the best Zelda.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 03:37:40 PM
See Pap, you just confused the two types again in your first paragraph...
You are saying that those willing to pay the high price shouldn't because the Wii would be less successful overall. My point is that many of the people that wish the Wii had the higher horsepower could care less whether or not it became the dominant console.
Nintendo has proven in the past that the success of their console matters VERY little to what most hardcore fans care about... first party games.
For example, in my high res beautiful Zelda world, I would still get to play that even if the Wii only sold 10% of what it has.
I'm also offended that you take my statements to mean "the first thing I worry about is graphics." That's the farthest thing from the truth. I still play and love my Wii. I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.
Finally, in me saying that the next system would be HD, I'm not claiming they are just going to make an HD version of the Wii. I'm saying that the next BRAND NEW system will (and should) be HD capable.
Everyone on these boards needs to stop confusing the concept of Nintendo as a company making money, and the concept of what makes an individual gamer happy. They really shouldn't be the same thing, and if they are, that is the definition of a fanboy.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2008, 03:38:32 PM
How come when pap makes an extremely long post I like it and when everyone else does it I hate it? I agree with everything he just said except the part about LttP being the best Zelda.
That's what the Zelda community is saying, though, not me. Ask many Zelda die hard fan and many would quote LttP as the best Zelda game ever, while some will say that the simplicity of the original Zelda makes it the best. Hell, for me its a tie between OoT and Majora's Mask.
The way I see it, the Zelda games are so unique, so masterful and so well done that there can never be a greatest Zelda. Each experience is molded to the heart and emotion of the player. OoT was the first Zelda game I truly played and completed and it holds a very special place in my heart, so to me THAT'S the best Zelda. However, those who played LttP first see that as the best Zelda. Hell, I am sure a very young gamer played Twilight Princess as his first Zelda and see it as the best Zelda ever.
Its the same thing with the Mario games.
So, don't take it personally if I say that LttP is the best game ever. I am just using it as an example of how a graphically simple game is considered the best because of how well it executes everything.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2008, 03:46:06 PM
See Pap, you just confused the two types again in your first paragraph...
You are saying that those willing to pay the high price shouldn't because the Wii would be less successful overall. My point is that many of the people that wish the Wii had the higher horsepower could care less whether or not it became the dominant console.
Nintendo has proven in the past that the success of their console matters VERY little to what most hardcore fans care about... first party games.
For example, in my high res beautiful Zelda world, I would still get to play that even if the Wii only sold 10% of what it has.
I'm also offended that you take my statements to mean "the first thing I worry about is graphics." That's the farthest thing from the truth. I still play and love my Wii. I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.
Finally, in me saying that the next system would be HD, I'm not claiming they are just going to make an HD version of the Wii. I'm saying that the next BRAND NEW system will (and should) be HD capable.
Everyone on these boards needs to stop confusing the concept of Nintendo as a company making money, and the concept of what makes an individual gamer happy. They really shouldn't be the same thing, and if they are, that is the definition of a fanboy.
To be honest, I was aiming my post at those fans who believe the Wii should be a graphical powerhouse when their gamer past has proven that this is mainly a secondary part of the game.
So what you are basically saying is that you wouldn't care if a Nintendo system is successful or not as long as they kept making the gamers you wanted to play?
Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.
I too believe that the next console will likely be HD, not because they want to make their games pretty but because by then the HD adoption rate will have been raised (and with the FFC demanding people to go HD before February of 2009 it will likely happen), and hopefully, they can add it while still keeping the system at a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 03:51:13 PM
Quote
Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.
That is not what I am saying at all. My point is that I LOVED the GameCube generation. Even though it was the weakest selling console, I still played and loved a ton of great first party games, and even some third party ones.
Therefore, I don't think the insane success of the Wii is a reason for me to like it more than I actually do. Therefore, I often find myself wishing they made a more expensive console with even fancier features.
At no point in any of my posts on these forums have I ever said there are no games on Wii I love. I love the new Mario Kart. I love Smash (other than online). I loved Zack and Wiki. I Loved Galaxy. I love the virtual console. I loved Twilight Princess. I could keep going.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 03:55:22 PM
I'm still allowed to admit that I think it would be EVEN BETTER if it was in HD.
Yeah, but that's a safe statement. ANYTHING would be better in HD. That's not exactly going out on a limb.
It's also a little naive: nothing is free. If something is to take on HD, then someone, somewhere, something has to pay the price. I'm not saying that the price paid is quality, in many cases it clearly isn't, but there is a trade-off nonetheless. It might instead be an increase in end-user purchase price, a narrowing of game genres, the exclusion of my friends from gaming, or an industry that is consolidated more and more into less and less companies. When evaluating whether one would personally desire HD gaming, that tradeoff, whatever it may be, needs to recognized and weighed.
So yes, this is indeed a personal decision from which can emerge on either side. For me, though, it's easy.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2008, 04:00:05 PM
Try to enlighten me on this as I am confused. In all honesty, it does sound as if you don't care if the Wii is successful because they haven't made the games you wanted to make, a blanket statement many fans use in order to try a bitter point.
That is not what I am saying at all. My point is that I LOVED the GameCube generation. Even though it was the weakest selling console, I still played and loved a ton of great first party games, and even some third party ones.
Therefore, I don't think the insane success of the Wii is a reason for me to like it more than I actually do. Therefore, I often find myself wishing they made a more expensive console with even fancier features.
At no point in any of my posts on these forums have I ever said there are no games on Wii I love. I love the new Mario Kart. I love Smash (other than online). I loved Zack and Wiki. I Loved Galaxy. I love the virtual console. I loved Twilight Princess. I could keep going.
Hmm...I am still confused.
The way I read it, you are saying that one reason you love the Wii is NOT because it is so successful but because its a Nintendo console with many great first party titles. But the wishing for an updated model comment still confuses me.
So if I try to sum it up, what you are saying is that you love the Wii so much and its controls that you wish it was even better than it already is and get the ultimate experience, or the best of both worlds (Nintendo innovation with the ultimate experience).
Sorry if I offended you, but you did confuse me with that statement, since it DOES sound similar to the fanboy claims of "I wish the Wii was HD and I would be happy).
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 04:01:12 PM
This post is to Kai. Reading Pap's now.
Thank you though. That's all my point was. I'm saying that I would be willing to pay the increased price in the end, and I bet a lot of other people would be too. People shouldn't attack people as if they are wrong for having that opinion.
Honestly, because I've always been a multi-console guy, I wouldn't even mind a decrease in the number of games, because, as I said before, Nintendo will still make their first party games.
I realize this isn't the same mindset as everyone... but I'm still entitled to selfishly wish for it. ;)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 04:02:54 PM
To Pap:
Yeah pretty much. I love the Wii a lot but I often wish they would have made the unit more expensive so that the games would look nicer on my HD TV as well as fix other things, like the storage issue.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 12, 2008, 04:10:31 PM
Pap saying LTTP is not the best Zelda makes me sad.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 04:12:33 PM
Yeah pretty much. I love the Wii a lot but I often wish they would have made the unit more expensive so that the games would look nicer on my HD TV as well as fix other things, like the storage issue.
Fair enough. I would have taken a bigger storage drive if I knew Nintendo was going to be download happy this generation.
But the point I am getting at is that the Wii has proven that bigger, better hardware doesn't add value to a system, its the games. The great Sean Malstrom always say that companies don't add value to the product, its the consumer that does.
In hindsight, the 360 and PS3 ARE better systems than the Wii. What confuses everyone from analysts to fan so much is how success went to the console that never even wanted to be an HD clone. Its what makes the Wii such a hot topic discussion. Its the turtle and the hare all over.
You are right in that you have the right to value the Wii since you purchased it. I am merely stating that its best to enjoy what you have now and do wish for some slight improvement, but not to lower its value simply because its not what you wanted it to be.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
So now the magical question is, when I make a blog post in the near future about how the storage issue is the crux of many of the Wiis problems, will all the forum responses still be... "You are wrong, the Wii has sold millions of units world wide which proves it."
;)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2008, 04:29:09 PM
So now the magical question is, when I make a blog post in the near future about how the storage issue is the crux of many of the Wiis problems, will all the forum responses still be... "You are wrong, the Wii has sold millions of units world wide which proves it."
;)
You have my full support to bash Nintendo relentlessly for the storage situation. I couldn't care less about HD but I really wish I had even twice the storage space.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2008, 04:47:16 PM
Wii's problems stem from Nintendo farting around delivering downloadable junk.
All the money youz people spend on downloadable filth is hurting the disc-based 3rd-party Wii game market. No wonder 3rd parties are so hesitant to bring games over. Nintendo and its customers are horrible.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 04:49:31 PM
I think what fans react to in this situation is the insinuation that Nintendo made bad decisions. With the Wii's commercial success, it's pretty difficult to categorize Nintendo's moves as negative given the grand scheme of things. Rather, Nintendo made controversial decisions, with both good and bad effects, for which they must account for today, regardless of any resulting success.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Pale on December 12, 2008, 05:04:09 PM
But I think it's still possible that in their overall good decision... bad decisions were made.
For example, why can I buy a 4 gig SD card for 20 bucks, but they could only put 512 megs of internal memory in the system? :)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 05:06:42 PM
Think how much more serious shortages might have been if they put more stress on the already explosive flash memory market &P.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: IceCold on December 12, 2008, 05:13:47 PM
Are we honestly still having this argument again? *sigh*
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 05:15:54 PM
Are we honestly still having this argument again? *sigh*
Hehe, have we fallen into the familiar NWR habit of derailing conversations?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Adrock on December 12, 2008, 05:24:05 PM
Okay, let's try this.
With DQX coming to Wii, what are the chances that Square Enix will develop FFXIV for the Wii, or at least also on the Wii? I say better than ever but still slim... though I never thought FFXIII would come to 360 so anything could happen. Square Enix did spend millions upon millions on The Last Remant and that game sucks nutsack (multiple nutsacks, in fact). If they're smart (and that's a ginormous if) they'll realize that HD-ifying a game can't mask sh*tty gameplay.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 05:29:07 PM
I'm pretty willing to say it won't happen Adrock. SE already has a Nintendo specific FF franchise as Crystal Chronicles, and I'd actually be happy with CC if they just pushed that to be the best it could be.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2008, 05:31:09 PM
lol you mean the FFCC they cancelled
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 12, 2008, 05:42:07 PM
Insinuating that Bill is a drug user? Nope. It was a simple figure of speech. And as far as Mario calling me a retard, well, he's the expert.
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either. When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to). Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 12, 2008, 06:09:30 PM
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either. When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to). Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.
It's an interesting coincidence that both GoW2 and Team Fortress 2 are games based around guns...
BTW Lindy, where would you rate Mario Galaxy on that scale? Because I think it's generally accepted that Wii graphics won't get any better than that, so it would be generally pointless to wait, or demand, anything that Mario Galaxy couldn't reach.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2008, 07:42:51 PM
With DQX coming to Wii, what are the chances that Square Enix will develop FFXIV for the Wii, or at least also on the Wii? I say better than ever but still slim... though I never thought FFXIII would come to 360 so anything could happen. Square Enix did spend millions upon millions on The Last Remant and that game sucks nutsack (multiple nutsacks, in fact). If they're smart (and that's a ginormous if) they'll realize that HD-ifying a game can't mask sh*tty gameplay.
I see KH3 (or a KH Spin Off like Birth by Sleep) making it first. Final Fantasy XIV...it all depends on how XIII performs on the 360 and PS3. If the game fails to see the sales that the older FF games got then rest assure they will look for other options.
Pro: I think Kairon is talking about the new multiplayer CC game.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 12, 2008, 08:29:59 PM
I know, just teasing, but FFCC is still a lol-worthy pathetic existance on Wii.
Echoes of Time is a simulatenous DS port, with DS graphics on a fraction of an HDTV screenspace, and is a simple "retry" of the under-amibitious GameCube disaster. It's what the original GameCube-GBA combo should've been: a go-anywhere multiplayer RPG experience. But i'm not falling for that trap again!
Crystal Bears, on the other hand, is sharing the same fate as FF13.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Deguello on December 12, 2008, 09:02:03 PM
Quote
Insinuating that Bill is a drug user? Nope. It was a simple figure of speech.
You'd be surprised what insulting and disrespectful things become common through usage. You'd have to be an idiot not to know that. (There's one.) "Retarded" has become so common that the insult has been drained of meaning, but it still is rather offensive. "I'd like some of what you're smoking..." insinuates that either the person is directed at is either a) stupid or b) on a drug that's influencing his mind. Just because there are some layers that obfuscate doesn't mean that what it implies isn't being said. And some people take great offense at being called druggies, either due to hatred of the insipid culture or having had drug problems with family or friends. Just like "retarded."
Quote
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either. When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to). Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.
What does Wii having to make games that look as good as Gears of War have to do with what "generation" it belongs to? Ps2 never had a game to looked as good as Halo 2 or Resident Evil 4 or Metroid Prime or the Xbox versions of Splinter Cell. Does that mean it wasn't in the same "generation?" Was it then a "generation behind?" That doesn't seem to make sense.
Go look up some of the PS2's launch titles. Seriously, some looked worse than the PS1's. You can even see the difference in the PS2 versions of those games, particularly RE4 in which all the models were severely downgraded, the AI was turned off, the environment stripped, and the cutscenes that run in realtime on the GC were movies of the GC version running.
The only time the PS2 even approached GC and Xbox graphics were when the developer hunkered down and gave it a good effort. Then it passed for a mediocre GC or Xbox game. The PS2 did this a lot because it was the market leader, and similar things will and have happened for the Wii, particularly from Japanese devs now that it has been cemented as their console of choice. You can be cynical about it but, historically and without fail, this has happened.
And to end, arguing about generations is silly, because there probably won't be any more graphical generations left after this. MS and Sony are going to have a lot of trouble passing the j.n.d. for this generation to the next (that's "just noticeable difference" for those of you who've never taken a marketing class), meaning, without new HD resolutions to climb to, they will have to invest heavily in a graphics card that only barely makes a noticeable difference. Compare that to Nintendo, who only has to walk into a Fry's or a CompUSA today and grab an off the shelf graphics card that's 3 times better than the 360's for $200. I'm not saying graphics will never get better, ever, but the prohibitive cost and time of doing so has been greatly magnified to the point of actually hurting the companies who try. You think if Square Enix was going to make the decision today, do you think they'd choose to put FFXIII on the PS3, knowing it would take them an immense amount of money, 5 years to complete, and would launch on the loser last-place nobody-owns-it console? I'd wager no, because their sales have fallen 75% just this year, because FFXIII has sucked up all their resources to the point that they don't have any product on shelves. They'd choose Wii in a heartbeat and deal with a moderate boost in graphics over mega graphics and low userbase. They'd choose products on shelves instead of floating aimlessly on a dev schedule. That's why the smart side of Square Enix decided to put DQX on the Wii, and that's why a lot more things will be on the Wii in the future, and some will be in genres that have somehow been "banned" from the Wii.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 12, 2008, 09:46:39 PM
Doing drugs is retarded. That's all I'm going to say.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 12, 2008, 10:29:11 PM
The PS2 wasn't as powerful as GC/Xbox, but it wasn't a full generation behind either. When the Wii makes a game with graphics as beautiful as Gears of War 2, let me know (that's everybody's cue to start bashing GoW2...come on, I know you want to). Hopefully somebody will make something like Team Fortress 2, since its art style would look great on the platform.
It's an interesting coincidence that both GoW2 and Team Fortress 2 are games based around guns...
BTW Lindy, where would you rate Mario Galaxy on that scale? Because I think it's generally accepted that Wii graphics won't get any better than that, so it would be generally pointless to wait, or demand, anything that Mario Galaxy couldn't reach.
I am ashamed of you Kairon, to group the artistically creative and coloirful TF2 with the bland, generic, brown, desolate lands that are populated by testorone infused freaks of nature.
Also I'd take a visual style like Mario Galaxy over anything that looks like GoW
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 13, 2008, 03:39:35 AM
Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 13, 2008, 03:46:25 AM
Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?
If he honestly refused to buy a DS because it had a few non-games then why are we even arguing with the guy?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2008, 01:53:20 PM
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And to end, arguing about generations is silly, because there probably won't be any more graphical generations left after this.
I figure Nintendo needs one more for the simple reason that the Wii doesn't support HD and this will be a required feature in a few years. Hell, I felt it was a required feature when the Wii launched.
But other than that I agree we at least don't need another one, even if we do get one. To me the need for better console hardware was always obvious, based on the existence of games that the existing console couldn't handle. In the past the arcades were the standard. You couldn't get arcade perfect ports with the current consoles and you saw the clear need to step up. By last generation we were at the point where with arcades there was no step up. Arcade games like Soul Calibur are more-or-less considered console games now. Hell the console versions are BETTER now.
But we still had PCs. Last gen we were still noticing that Doom 3 has some framerate issues on the Xbox that it didn't have if you had the right PC hardware. Now they develop the PC, PS3 and Xbox 360 versions at the same time and there's no obvious graphical advantage to the PC version. If we were to have a standard videogame console format (like DVDs or CDs) hardware comparable to the PS3 or Xbox 360 would be a good choice. There's no clear game we can point to and say "hey we need better hardware to do that!" Could graphics be better? Sure. But the cost of doing so probably wouldn't be worth it.
Nintendo still needs a boost though because there are games I can point to and say "graphically the Wii can't handle this". We couldn't make the Wii hardware the standard because there would be a lot of games that wouldn't be able to be ported to it, even if they used the classic controller.
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Great, by the time I get here and want to tell Ian that if he wants a 360 he should buy a 360, not a Wii people have rerailed the thread already. Why did that guy even buy a Wii? Didn't he refuse to buy a DS because it's too "non-game"? Then why did he buy a Wii when not much was available for it and now complains that it's not a 360?
I have a DS. I didn't initially buy one because the DS lineup absolutely SUCKED at first. I could have bought one but there was nothing I wanted to buy for it so I waited about a year. I did the same thing with the Wii because at first the one game that was out that I was interested in was Twilight Princess which I could and did buy on the Cube, with controls I would have preferred anyway.
I have a Wii because Nintendo makes the best damn games. Same reason I bought the Cube. I want good third party support as well but if made to pick between Nintendo's first party games and third party games I would still pick Nintendo. The only problem is now Nintendo is not as consistent with their first party games as they used to be. It's mostly sequels for core gamers, new stuff for non-gamers these days which is kind of dull. I bought the Wii shortly before Metroid Prime 3 came out and with that and Super Mario Galaxy and SSB Brawl on the way it looked like at the very least there was some must-play first party games I would need a Wii for. Since E3 I've been rethinking that purchase a fair bit. While I'm interested in S&P2 (Punch-Out is iffy since screens suggest a possible remake and the dev is unproven) there isn't really any other exclusives that I'm anticipating. I would like to know what EAD, IS and Retro are working on since they're kind of the "big three" Nintendo devs and their output is really more what I would buy a Nintendo console for.
I was iffy about Nintendo's commitment to core gamers when I bought a Wii and since then their actions have made that feeling worse. Dragon Quest X however gives me a lot more hope. I don't know if I would buy Dragon Quest X or not. It is kind of an archaic RPG series and we haven't even had any details revealed yet. But it could change things around a lot. Let's put it this way: this announcement has convinced me to put off a potential PS3 purchase for the time being to see where things go. :)
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 15, 2008, 03:17:26 PM
There's no clear game we can point to and say "hey we need better hardware to do that!"
Crysis?
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Could graphics be better? Sure. But the cost of doing so probably wouldn't be worth it.
Thing is, Nintendo figured this applies to the Wii's graphics and they turned out to be right. It may not be enough for you but it was enough for tons of people.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2008, 06:46:22 PM
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Thing is, Nintendo figured this applies to the Wii's graphics and they turned out to be right. It may not be enough for you but it was enough for tons of people.
Tons of people... who never really played videogames before or hadn't in decades and are either ignorant of better graphics being available or are not interested enough to care. It's the Wii strategy in a nutshell. When presented with constructive criticism Nintendo's solution was to present their work to people who are less critical.
But again we're busting out the "Nintendo's sales means you're wrong" style argument which I really don't think should matter to, well, ANYONE on this site. This isn't Forbes, this in NWR. We should all be fans of Nintendo because of our perceived quality of their games and videogame systems. It's not just our team that we're cheering to win. This is liking being on a film lover's site and arguing that Transformers should have won Film of the Year at the Oscars because it made so much money.
The Playstation 2 was better than the Gamecube because it sold more. More people bought it so it must have been better. Do you agree with this statement?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 16, 2008, 01:26:27 AM
I figure Nintendo needs one more for the simple reason that the Wii doesn't support HD and this will be a required feature in a few years. Hell, I felt it was a required feature when the Wii launched.
I don't. We recently got an HD TV and HD channels here recently, and it is marginally better than the regular channels, but frankly I don't see what the big deal is with it. You just pay a great deal more for a barely noticeable improvement in quality, and for me it just isn't worth it. Sure its a little bit nice having a slightly sharper picture, but if getting that better quality means having to pay $59.99 per game instead of the traditional $49.99 then I'd rather do without.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 16, 2008, 01:58:15 AM
But again we're busting out the "Nintendo's sales means you're wrong" style argument which I really don't think should matter to, well, ANYONE on this site. This isn't Forbes, this in NWR. We should all be fans of Nintendo because of our perceived quality of their games and videogame systems. It's not just our team that we're cheering to win. This is liking being on a film lover's site and arguing that Transformers should have won Film of the Year at the Oscars because it made so much money.
I don't know. I think there's a subtle difference between being a fan of Nintendo games and Nintendo. I propose that there are indeed those gamers who feel that Nintendo's output is exploring a direction away from what they perceived Nintendo to represent in the past. However, I also believe that it's possible to be a gamer who isn't attached to a single predefinition of what a Nintendo game is, or what a videogame should be, and instead a fan of the exploration that Nintendo is enacting in gaming, which can come in a package like Mario Galaxy, or in something like Wii Fit.
The Playstation 2 was better than the Gamecube because it sold more. More people bought it so it must have been better. Do you agree with this statement?
Look, I loved the GameCube. But did it expand the market and bring in new people to play DDR, GTA, or Guitar Hero? On that metric I HAVE to give the PlayStation 2 precedence even though I didn't own it, simply because it was a system for which my criticisms are outweighed by its strengths. Would I PERSONALLY have been happy with a PS2 but not a GameCube? Hmm.... probably not, even for all my platform envy.
The two conclusions are separate and independent of each other. The PS2 was an overall better system, but it wouldn't have suited me as well as the GameCube. My criticisms with the GameCube, though, are another matter.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: KDR_11k on December 16, 2008, 05:08:22 AM
You know, the PS2 simply WAS better than the Gamecube due to its gigantic software library.
I'm thinking your cut-off line for graphics that "the HD gen is good enough" is arbitrary and if the Wii/HD split happened next gen you'd still hold that gen's more powerful systems as the cut-off line. You just drew the line because you haven't seen any better and therefore cannot imagine any better.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 16, 2008, 09:00:24 AM
There's gotta be at least one more major advance in gaming graphics before we can say they've reached a cut-off point. I'm talking about 3D holographic stuff. HD is fine and dandy, but its still 2-dimensional. Gaming systems will have to make that next leap before they will be able to deliver content that is indistinguishable from real life.
Only when we can run holographic simulations ala Star Trek TNG+ will we have reached the final advances in gaming.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ian Sane on December 16, 2008, 01:00:35 PM
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I'm thinking your cut-off line for graphics that "the HD gen is good enough" is arbitrary and if the Wii/HD split happened next gen you'd still hold that gen's more powerful systems as the cut-off line. You just drew the line because you haven't seen any better and therefore cannot imagine any better.
I think the fact I haven't seen better and cannot imagine better is notable because this is the first time in videogame history that has happened. As I mentioned there was always something very tangible you could see that required better hardware than the current consoles whether it be arcade games or PC games. All throughout videogame history it was easy to imagine what the next console would be capable of... until now.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 16, 2008, 01:47:31 PM
There's gotta be at least one more major advance in gaming graphics before we can say they've reached a cut-off point. I'm talking about 3D holographic stuff. HD is fine and dandy, but its still 2-dimensional. Gaming systems will have to make that next leap before they will be able to deliver content that is indistinguishable from real life.
Only when we can run holographic simulations ala Star Trek TNG+ will we have reached the final advances in gaming.
The problem is, just when will it be cost-efficient enough for not only the consumer to buy it, but for the developer to actually take advantage of that power? What will be in it for developers to spend the extra time and money to make even more visual-intensive games if they are still working with the same fan base (or a decreased fan base) and thus decreased profit?
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Kairon on December 16, 2008, 01:50:45 PM
Also, I'm gonna defend 2D games until the day I die, holographic projectors or no.
Title: Re: Dragon Quest X - Megaton Non-Surprise!
Post by: Ymeegod on December 27, 2008, 09:37:00 PM
Not surprised myself that it's going to the WII since it's the market leader in Japan by a large margin and that's DQ's bread and butter. Also DQ games have been released on the WII. I really loved ole-school JRPG like DQVIII but there's been successful real-time RPGs crossovers so maybe there's hope for DQIX and DQX (Phantasy's Star Online for example was great).
