I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box). ;)
no offense, but i hate people like you
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Morari on May 22, 2008, 11:09:27 PM
I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box). ;)
no offense, but i hate people like you
Agreed.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 12:18:20 AM
I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box). ;)
no offense, but i hate people like you
Ditto.... minus the first three words.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Kairon on May 23, 2008, 12:52:36 AM
Geez guys. There's nothing wrong with that. This is America, land of the free and home of the ebay.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 23, 2008, 12:56:27 AM
I hate people that hate people who hate laziness from those who supposedly want a game. :P
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: IceCold on May 23, 2008, 01:00:21 AM
Didn't GP and Pale get into a huge argument about this?
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 12:37:46 PM
Arguably one could say that scalping games is fine if the people purchasing them for the sole purpose of reselling are ALWAYS doing it by the same means as the people who want to play the game. The problem is, as seen with concert tickets, if it is allowed to go on and supported, it will quickly evolve into people obtaining the products in unreasonable ways.
Besides that, there is no other way around it. It is making money by taking direct advantage of other people, and that just isn't cool. It's all the more frustrating that it is often done (and I am NOT calling anyone in this thread jobless, just stating a fact) by jobless people who make all of their money by gaming the system in some way.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: shammack on May 23, 2008, 03:40:30 PM
Arguably one could say that scalping games is fine if the people purchasing them for the sole purpose of reselling are ALWAYS doing it by the same means as the people who want to play the game.
Wait, why would that be fine?
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 03:46:13 PM
I was saying arguably, because one could pose that the people that end up paying the higher price could have just gone and buy it the same way the other person does.
I still don't agree with that either. I was just pointing out that on some levels I don't see how anyone could claim there was nothing wrong with it.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 23, 2008, 04:04:19 PM
I think companies should sell everything at cost so they aren't taking advantage of people.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 23, 2008, 04:09:26 PM
So when Majora's Mask's MSRP was 79.99 and most every retailer sold it for 59.99, who's being taken advantage up?
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 04:10:26 PM
Edit: in response to GP...
Hah, with all due respect, that is the silliest argument ever. But you do have a flare for the dramatic.
A manufacturer creates a product, marks it up to a suitable profit, and makes it available to a retail outlet so that customers can get at it.
A retail outlet obtains a product from a manufacturer, marks it up again to cover their costs, and makes it easily available to a customer.
A scalper runs around and snatches up a product (often through means not available to the every day person) to create a false scarcity, marks it up, and takes advantage of a potential customer.
Scalpers make it so people's lives are more difficult. If you can't see that, I'm sorry.
And please don't pick apart my generalizations with "oh except one time Wal-Mart screwed me" stories.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 04:16:08 PM
And by the way, I'm totally fine with free market economies. My beef isn't with the price that rare items obtain on ebay... my beef is with how they became rare.
Anyone who doesn't see a problem with this can't tell me they are ok with lining up at a local box office for concert tickets for hours and hours in advance, only to find out that the best available a mere 30 seconds after they were supposed to go on sale is 10 rows back.
So it's perfectly fine that the only way you can sit in the front row is by paying off some guy who's friends with the right person?
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 23, 2008, 04:26:08 PM
And by the way, I'm totally fine with free market economies. My beef isn't with the price that rare items obtain on ebay... my beef is with how they became rare.
Anyone who doesn't see a problem with this can't tell me they are ok with lining up at a local box office for concert tickets for hours and hours in advance, only to find out that the best available a mere 30 seconds after they were supposed to go on sale is 10 rows back.
So it's perfectly fine that the only way you can sit in the front row is by paying off some guy who's friends with the right person?
I think you are creating a straw man, we are talking about people who stand in line for hours and get something without any "inside" help. If people don't buy the products at excessive prices scalpers would go broke and wouldn't do it. So the consumer is just as responsible for being a lazy butt and decide to instead purchase it at a marked up value because they didn't want to stand in line early. It is basic opportunity cost, what is the opportunity cost for you not getting someplace early to get an item. Is it worth it to stay at home and purchase it on ebay or elsewhere where at a marked up value? I know with tickets or any item I take full responsibility if I don't get it. I should have gotten to a place earlier, and since I didn't I'll either have to wait or pay a higher price. I try this concept of taking responsibility instead of getting after others who actually spent their valuable time waiting.
Also is there a particular reason why you are taking my comments so seriously? I was joking around about the selling at cost. In fact I don't see why you feel the need to attack me I wasn't insulting you nearly as much as you are insulting those of us who sell rare items on ebay.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 23, 2008, 04:33:08 PM
His mom just touched him funny.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 23, 2008, 04:35:38 PM
I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.
The thing is, I hate that people are doing this. It is a complete dick move. You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit. It is basically being a complete asshole.
Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 23, 2008, 04:36:28 PM
I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.
The thing is, I hate that people are doing this. It is a complete dick move. You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit. It is basically being a complete asshole.
Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.
Then aren't you robbing those who may not want to go to the store early but instead decide to wait and purchase it later? If everyone who wanted one got one at launch there would be no other outlet for those who wanted it but could not get it because it sold out (which a valuable item like Wii Fit would be with or without people trying to make a profit). It goes both ways.
Video games, tickets, and things like that are not things people need, and things people can wait on. If people didn't like the practice maybe they shouldn't by the items like what happened with the PS3 where the market tanked after launch, with many scalpers losing their butts. There is still risk involved.
Title: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 04:51:30 PM
I just think it's irresponsible for people to rationalize it as being fine. Just admit that it's kind of a jack ass thing to do and be done with it. And I did differentiate between the two types...
In my opinion, someone who gets up super early and waits in lines in order to buy a bunch of things and sell them on ebay for more money is just kind of an ass hole.
Someone who uses who they know to buy things early is a scammer.
And I'm sure the next argument will be "but they were available when I walked in so its ok." Even if they were available, it doesn't change the fact that people will come after you looking for it.
And your latest rationalization of saying you are providing an outlet for those people that didn't want it at launch but wanted to buy it after it's sold out is frustrating too. The point is that if scalpers didn't snatch them up they WOULDN'T be sold out as soon. You are in essence screwing over a normal shopper in favor of someone who is ok with paying more money.
Why do you think stores are starting to put limits one how many of something people can buy? Because they are sick of their customers getting screwed over too!
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: ShyGuy on May 23, 2008, 05:46:00 PM
TLDR;
The difference between a ticket scalper and someone who buys Wiis to sell on eBay is that a person who purchases a ticket to an event doesn't own anything, they merely get a license for a seat at the venue. The Venue owners have the right to set policy about reselling seats, thus anti-scalping rules. Since Wii-fit is an actual tangible item, it should fall under the rules of an open market and allow people to resell their own personal property.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 06:12:12 PM
That's an interesting vein of thought on the whole thing and very well might be the case in the laws, but I would have to say I disagree with it. A ticket to an event in my mind is the equivalent of a product. And I'm not really claiming it should be illegal, just that it's kind of a mean thing to do to other potential purchasers.
I guess I just wish the people who did it would man up and admit that they are doing it for their own personal gain instead of trying to paint it as if they are doing a service to others. While they are at it, they shouldn't be surprised when someone says it's a pretty cruel thing to do when others are trying to find and purchase the game.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 23, 2008, 06:36:00 PM
I'm not even sure your rude and foul language deserves much of a response Pale, you obviously feel the need to attack me when I haven't even attacked you. My point is that a company determining the value of a product based on what the market will accept is not that much different from the market determining the value of a product after it leaves retail shelves. If you want to get into "ripping" people off wouldn't Nintendo overcharging for the Wii even though it is almost a certain fact they are making tons of profit off it, they are charging what people will pay even though it is far and away more profit than the competition.
In regards to my point regarding selling one ebay to people who are willing to pay more for the comfort of staying at home. Well that is a secondary market that needs service as well for hot selling items. While it may take longer for a hot item to sell out without scalpers it will still sell out fast, and who is going to serve that other market? Believe it or not but the point of selling commodities is for personal gain whether it is on a corporate level or an individual level. I do NOT think it is unethical to buy non-essential items and mark them up, it is a luxury item not a need like food or medicine. Making a profit is not bad unless you are clearly trying to deceive someone.
Regardless I wish you'd tone down the language. I've been trying to keep it civil without calling people nasty names. Or saying how much I hate individual people (Seems pretty silly to hate people over entertaining related things).
With that said I'm going to step away from this. It will just go round and round causing my head to fall off.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Kairon on May 23, 2008, 06:48:34 PM
The only reason we see it as a "dick move" is because the companies are artificially mandating lower prices than a market would demand, usually for their own understandable reasons (public perception, or maybe to put pressure on competition). Resellers take advantage of that to fill an economical niche in the supply-demand equation?
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Ian Sane on May 23, 2008, 07:15:01 PM
Quote
The difference between a ticket scalper and someone who buys Wiis to sell on eBay is that a person who purchases a ticket to an event doesn't own anything, they merely get a license for a seat at the venue. The Venue owners have the right to set policy about reselling seats, thus anti-scalping rules.
The "you buy a licence" thing is something that companies are starting to apply a lot. They claim stuff like CDs and DVDs are merely licences to use the IP stored within. I think that's total BS and I'm sure if the "licence" definition could be applied to all products they would try it. The "licence" model is an off-switch that allows the manufacturer to decide when the product you bought is to break and require some other payment to keep working. It's a scary idea so I consider a ticket to be a product that anyone can resell.
To me a big difference though is that a ticket is a very limited item and games typically aren't. If someone stockpiles all the tickets to a show that really sucks because once that show is over, it's over. If you want to go you have to pay the scalper if the event is sold out. But someone buys all the Wii's at launch? Well that sucks but I can wait for the product to become more available and it will. Individual games are a little different but with consoles, there's more on the way. So you're not forced to pay an inflated price provided you wait. It's a bummer but at least there are options, unlike with tickets.
I have no problem though with stores offering limits on how many items one can buy. I see grocery stores do that with sale items so it doesn't bother me. I have no problem with the box office offering the same limit on tickets. But I can't stand anti-scalping laws. To me that's beyond the level of control government should have over someone. So if any laws for example about this would gaming would bother me the same way. But stores can put in limits, that's fine and I think it's a great idea.
Someone who scalps games is a bit of an assh0le but what can you do? Being a jerk isn't against the law, nor should it be. I don't really care so much though if these people jump through the same hoops that I have to to get the hot ticket item. If you camp out, you earned it. Now if you've got some sort of shaddy in, that's crap but I don't think that's very common with videogames. I'm quite certain that's an issue with tickets but not with videogames.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 23, 2008, 07:23:34 PM
i think i'm the only person here that knows where Pale is coming from.
GP, in none of Pales posts did it seem like he was calling you out or reffering to you specifically with any of his vulgar language. He (we) merely despise the act. We know nothing can change it, we just want the people to do it to atleast admit that what they're doing is hurtful to some people. It's the blind "we're doing a service for people who don't want to leave their home to shop, we're making it convenient for them" and not thinking about everyone else. The group of people willing to pay such inflated prices for something like a Wii on sites like Ebay is a niche minority compared to average joes that would rather pay retail prices for something they want or rather have the security of picking up an item in-store, or even the people that simply can just barely afford said item and get robbed the opportunity of purchase. It's these people that scalping hurts, and it would be nice that it's admited; Scalpers hurt the average consumer.
Now imagine you're a scalper and you line up early to get the hottest new item so you can sell it for profit by whatever means you'd like, and the only other guy there was a scalper too and bought up all the allotted stock before you did. Wouldn't you feel like you were cheated? Thats why people on the side of the fence Pale and I are on think its "a dick move."
Re-selling items for profit isn't illegal (with exceptions like Event Tickets mentioned earlier) but that doesn't mean you're robbing tons of average people the opportunity to purchase something they'd like to own as well as taking away the freedom of a consumer to just walk into a store and leave with said item.
Edit to respond to Ians post:
Acquiring videogames with "some sort of shaddy in" is pretty common in my area actually. I know people who'll break street dates for their friends or hold off pre-orders and i think thats all BS. Do i care, not if it doesnt affect me of course but no matter what i think its a horrible thing to do. As for your comment on how ticket scalping and videogame re-selling is different, i see your point in how limited a ticket to a concert or even is. However i still think the whole "well too bad, wait for it" bit is BS. There are still people out there who can't find wii's because they're always sold out, so you have to wonder how many of those get sold out by re-sellers even now, a year after wii's release. A whole year later and people are still getting robbed out of the convenience of going to a store and picking up a wii just so someone with deeper pockets can hit "buy now" and get it shipped to him. That's just wrong in my book.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 23, 2008, 07:29:46 PM
Actually if a scalper bought everything before me good for him/her. I should have got there before them, though anytime I've done that the limit has been 1 per person except for tickets. But hey even then I didn't hold any grudges except for ONE time where I was in line for a ticket and the store decided to make it a lottery so all of us that were there for hours lost our place in line (In fact the front guy had to go near the back). Then again I think there was some shenanigans going on there that I'd really not like to delve into.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 23, 2008, 07:38:52 PM
I'm not attacking you personally. I'm stating that the act of hording a rare item (thus increasing its rarity) and then selling it at a marked up price is an ass hole thing to do. I would state that same opinion regardless of who was the one doing it.
As for your direct points, I still think your secondary market hoo hah is a load of rationalized poo. NONE of those people paying top dollar on eBay are doing it out of appreciation for the scalpers. Do you seriously think people would rather pay a marked up price on ebay than pay list price on another real online store? Come on.
There is also a HUGE difference between your free market concept and reselling horded items. For example, companies WANT as many people to buy their product as possible. Scalpers want VERY FEW people to buy the product at a marked up price from them. Scalpers DON'T care about the general potential customer, real companies DO. It is completely and totally different in almost every way.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 23, 2008, 07:40:59 PM
Is it a "dick-move"? Yes. Should be regulated somehow or made illegal? No
It's just one of those shitty things that people do. It isn't "wrong", it is perfectly within somebody's right to re-sell something they purchased for a higher price than they paid. Something is only worth what somebody will pay for it.
But scalpers are still ass-holes.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: animecyberrat on May 23, 2008, 10:25:37 PM
where'd my posts go?
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 24, 2008, 11:23:08 AM
I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.
The thing is, I hate that people are doing this. It is a complete dick move. You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit. It is basically being a complete asshole.
Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.
Then aren't you robbing those who may not want to go to the store early but instead decide to wait and purchase it later? If everyone who wanted one got one at launch there would be no other outlet for those who wanted it but could not get it because it sold out (which a valuable item like Wii Fit would be with or without people trying to make a profit). It goes both ways.
Video games, tickets, and things like that are not things people need, and things people can wait on. If people didn't like the practice maybe they shouldn't by the items like what happened with the PS3 where the market tanked after launch, with many scalpers losing their butts. There is still risk involved.
As I said, I don't have a problem that people do it...or that they can do it (better)...I just hate that it is done.
What these "scalpers" are doing is taking advantage of the limited supply, just to make a quick buck. And I believe they their actions are exploiting people, and exploiting Supply and Demand, and it is frustrating.
If a game or system, or tickets or whatever comes out and people wait inline all over the world and make that choice that the product is worth it to them to get on day one...then they have equal chance or greater depending on their commitment level to wait for the product. If it is sold out so be it. Another shipment will come out eventually. But the system gets broken when an E-bay seller is only waiting in line not for the desire of playing the game or whatever the product, but just to sell it again for more money. For everyone of those Ebay Sellers that buys one someone waiting or line, or that goes to the store that wants to play the game loses out. That SUCKS...and all for a few bucks?
What is worse, is some of these Ebay sellers are more like Ebay businesses and they buy several units and hold them until rarity...artificially creating more demand and rising the price.
I think that is an extremely self-fish and annoying practice, that should not be encouraged, and really should be discouraged.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on May 24, 2008, 02:05:59 PM
I think in the US they are trying to crack down on ticket scalping since some companies created bots to buy all the tickets and now suddenly all tickets that went for an average of 40 - 250 dollars now are on ebay or another 3rd party ticket company for 400 - 5000 dollars or even more. I think that this really kills the economy and hurts a lot of legitimate customers just so a greedy organization or people can make an crazy profit.
I'm sorry GP but I'm with Pale and everyone and am against your beliefs. I remember the Wii launch how there were a lot of let down honest parents that missed the intentionally came down at 7am to buy a system and missed the ticket allotment or drove 40 - 100 miles just to try to secure a ticket. And there are also people who can't afford to camp out at like 5am not because they are lazy or want to buy it at a increased price but because they have other responsibilities or commitments such as work.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Tanookisuit on May 24, 2008, 03:16:17 PM
To chime in, I just disagree with GP's assumption that there are only 2 types of people- those who can get up early and wait in line, and lazy people. Many people, like myself, had to work the morning of release. I personally can't believe it has sold out like this, due to the price point. I should've reserved one.
I do think that people who go out and buy extra to sell on eBay are, indeed, jerks. It's one thing 6 years from now when Wii Fit is possibly a rare collector's item, but on launch day it's just mean-spirited. When the Wii launched, I got to a Sears at 5:30am to find two jerk-ass kids in the front of the line not there to buy a Wii, but simply there to SELL THEIR PLACE IN LINE. I was unable to purchase a Wii from that location.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2008, 03:33:14 PM
I should make clear that I think stores should limit one per customer, not because it's a question of morality but a question of customer relations.
The problem with decrying this game scalping is that it's based soley on the motivation of the person purchasing the system. let me illustrate:
Person 1 buys a Wii after standing in line. The next day his transmission goes out and he has to scrape some quick cash together. He sells his Wii on eBay/Craigslist. Was he wrong?
Person 2 buys a Wii after standing in line for her boyfriend's birthday present. The next day they breakup. Wanting to get rid of the Wii she sells her Wii on eBay/Craigslist. Was she wrong?
Person 3 buys a Wii after standing in line. They intend to "scalp"l the Wii on eBay/Craiglist. Once they get the Wii home they decide to to give it a try and find out they love it, so they keep the Wii. Were they wrong?
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 24, 2008, 03:39:51 PM
I think that is an extremely self-fish and annoying practice, that should not be encouraged, and really should be discouraged.
LOL! i'm sorry i just had to point that out, it made me crack up for some reaoson.
Flames of Chaos' post remind me of when i worked at the nintendo store for the wii launch and thats when i realized just how much scalping items suck. I went to work at 7am and i saw a line wrapping around the block and it was one of the forst "whoa.." moments i ever had. My main job that morning was to keep unloading the wii's we had recieved everyday for about a week prior to launch, there were so many of them; you couldn't walk thru the offices or the employee break room w/o seeing wii's stacked up to the ceiling, lining the walls. We had a chain going, downstairs one crew would load boxes into the dumbwaiter, upstairs me and another cew would be stacking up wii's close to the door to hand out to the guys at the register. After doors opened it was my job to restock and open bags for the cashier to simply place the wii in and get the customer out the door quickly so we can serve the next customer. That whole launch week was like that and i saw some pretty f*cked up things.
First day there was an incident with a woman that one of our security gaurds noticed. A customers "sister" was waiting in line for her and handed off her bracelet to the paying customer.. at the cost of a few bucks. This "sister" was homeless woman that was paid to stand in the cold overnight just so some woman can show up whenever she pleased and cut hundreds of people in line. Sure she might of not been a re-seller and thus not really on topic with this thread, but thats still wrong.
Second day we busted some people that had tried to make elaborite copies of the wristbands we were using for the first few people that'd line up outside before employees got there, so we can give them a break and let them go get breakfast or find a restroom.
Those were some of the major things i saw go down but not all. There were times when we'd get police to stop guys from selling their wii's down the street from hour store before they enticed an angry mob from the crowd towards what was probably close to the middle of the line. If you think getting cops involved is a bit drastic, know that in NYC you can't sell anything on the street w/o a permit. The crowd reactions to some shady guy walking away from the Nintendo Store holding a Wii over his head and yeling out prices was awesome though, lots of boo's and FU's. There were also situations where people would try to sneak their friends on the line, tons more homeless people being paid to wait out in the cold, and even we heard one guy tried to sell someone an empty wii box.
Ever since i saw this sort of thing first hand, i've hated scalpers. Before i used to think it wasnt a big deal and really didnt hurt anyone, not anymore.
edit: it wasn't a wristband system we used, it was a ticket system we used.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 24, 2008, 04:03:09 PM
Quote from: Easy Cure
First day there was an incident with a woman that one of our security gaurds noticed. A customers "sister" was waiting in line for her and handed off her bracelet to the paying customer.. at the cost of a few bucks. This "sister" was homeless woman that was paid to stand in the cold overnight just so some woman can show up whenever she pleased and cut hundreds of people in line. Sure she might of not been a re-seller and thus not really on topic with this thread, but thats still wrong.
Why is this wrong? That woman agreed to a service for payment. It doesn't affect anybody in line 'cause they would have been in the exact same place if the woman had not paid somebody to stand for her. I'd do it for someone, but I'd charge a hell of a lot more than a few bucks. I was tempted to give up my place for the Xbox 360 launch day to a kid offering 300 bucks for my spot.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 24, 2008, 04:08:14 PM
I think the problem with that situation Maverick is that many people would view it as taking advantage of the homeless person and not paying them enough in return.
That's definitely going to be a gray area and peoples opinions I'm sure would depend on just how much they were getting paid to wait there.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 24, 2008, 04:11:02 PM
Eh, my point with that one is that it is NOT "taking advantage of" because it was a choice. Obviously the few dollars she earned from the activity was worth it for her. If I was homeless, I would take every opportunity to earn a few dollars to feed myself for the next day.
Wealth is relative, and priorities change based on responsibilities. A homeless person's only responsibility is to survive from day to day, in this case the "work" of sitting in line for hours on end would be well worth a hamburger or two. Obviously she felt the same.
Sorry, I'm teetering on total derailment.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 24, 2008, 04:14:37 PM
No no, I hear ya. But even though a homeless person may be totally happy with doing it for only 5 bucks, it won't change the fact that a good chunk of this world will still see it as taking advantage of them and their situation.
It's comparable to sweat shop factory conditions. Every employee is doing it because some money is better than no money, but does it make it right?
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 24, 2008, 04:25:31 PM
It's comparable to sweat shop factory conditions. Every employee is doing it because some money is better than no money, but does it make it right?
If it's not forced labor, then yes it is right... wait a minute, you're trying to trap me in a political discussion aren't you?! :o
:P
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 24, 2008, 04:27:08 PM
Heh, no not trap you. Just drawing the comparison. For me to decide if either was right, I would want to be able to compare what they were being paid with the local cost of living and make my own judgement. =P
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 24, 2008, 04:31:02 PM
i'm not going to get into a debate about a homless woman being paid to stand in line as unethical or anything towards said homeless.
The reason i brought it up was because it DOES affect the people in line. The woman that paid off the homeless woman was most likely someone local. By paying this person to stand in line all night, the real buyer got to go home and sleep in a nice warm bed while hundreds of honest people camped out for hours. That November 19th she woke up most likely at her regular time, had breakfast and pampered herself a bit before strolling up 48th Street a few mins before work to find her contact and see how far ahead in line she was. The homeless woman makes it to the doors, the Buyer pays her off in front of security who notice it and said something. The Buyer then starts a scene in which she's trying to pass of the homeless woman as her sister until she's escorted away by police. Was she escorted away because she paid a homeless woman to stand in line? No, she was escorted away because of disordely conduct in a place of businessl.
It may seem like it was harmless because it was just one person, and you figure that would only affect the very next person on line, but thats not looking at the big picture. If she had gotten that wii thru those means, hundreds of people would of gotten screwed because of that one person.
To me its not about legality, just about moral ethics. She could of been one of many people that paid another person to hold a place in line, but was just the only one caught. Anyone who was on that line with either intent to re-sell or got on the line thru shady means cheated everyone else who was waiting. The saddest part of all though isn't that nothing can really be done about it, but that nothing can be done because its just human nature. I remember when they needed an extra person to go out there and help count heads to see how many people were left before we ran out of wii's for the day. I'd walk up the block asking people to raise their hands only if they were the one buying (ie, if you're there to keep your brother/sister/boyfriend/girlfriend company, keep your hand down) and you'd see a few people raise their hands.. then you'd see tons more whispers in their friends ears, then more hands go up... You didn't have to hear what they said to know what there intent was. "well i've been standing here this whole time anyway, maybe i can buy one and sell it" Human nature is a disgusting thing sometimes.
edit: oh god pale and maverik C left out intentionaly are going to derail this thread too
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on May 24, 2008, 04:41:40 PM
Man EasyCure that sucks but I know its a common thing in NYC since I live so close to there and I occasionally visit there for fun. I wonder if I ever saw you in Nintendo World since I go there occasionally. But in Japan its the same thing like how for the PS3 launch wealthy Japanese people paid off poor Chinese people to wait in line buy a PS3 and hand deliver it to the wealthy folks home. There was a incident where Kutaragi was pissed since he was greeting the first few people who bought a PS3 at launch and of course the poor Chinese people wouldn't understand what Kutaragi is saying because Kutaragi is obviously Japanese.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 24, 2008, 04:46:17 PM
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: animecyberrat on May 24, 2008, 04:52:40 PM
Well since my posts all vanished into thin air I think I have to start over.
I was thinking though, if some states do outlaw scalping of tickets, couldn't they also outlaw the practice of doing the same for video games? But if they do that how do they regulate it?
I personally take this stance on the issue, if I buy something at a discount or get a good deal on it, I have no problem whatsoever marking it up to at or near it's regular cost or higher to make me a profit. I however will NEVER buy something brand new, mark it up above the retail price and deprive someone else of enjoying something I had no intention of buying otherwise.
The problem is, the people willing to pay the higher prices, they could all just end up waiting a few more weeks instead of falling into this trap. It is one thing to get all worked up for a rare item you know is going to be hard to get, but it is something else to pay a higher price for something you know is going to be around for a while and in mass production for a long time.
So in that sense, scalping something like WiiFit is just stupid and wrong I figure, but snatching a copy of Pikmin 2 at a yard sale for five bucks and tossing it up on ebay for a tidy profit, that is fine by me.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 24, 2008, 05:41:47 PM
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Maverick on May 24, 2008, 05:47:08 PM
Okay you're off the hook, but Pale still hasn't apologized!
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: UncleBob on May 24, 2008, 08:56:12 PM
I would like to point out... someone mentioned earlier that the resellers run the risk of getting stuck with the product if they can't sell it.
While this is true for something like concert tickets, for items like Wii/WiiFit - it's not true at all.
Resellers know what they can/can't do - and they'll buy something (Wiis, Tickle Me Elmos, HotWheels, whatever) in large quantities.... selling them off at higher prices as long as possible. If they get near the end of their return period (say 90 days at Wal*Mart) and it appears that they're not going to get a significant amount in exchange for the item, they will bring it back to the retailer and get their full money back.
So, in the mean time, a potential *real* customer is out of the option to buy the item. The store is out the chance to make money on the item (at Wal*Mart, at least, we're not supposed to resell returned Wiis, we have to ship 'em back to Nintendo).
Now, take into account that the scalper probably didn't buy any games/accessories to go with it...
The store is going to get less systems allocated to them in following shipments. Shipped quantities are directly related to same-transaction attach rates. Meaning that even more "real" customers are going to lose out on the chance to buy a Wii at this store because the store didn't get as many (or any) in the next week.
Second, if the item *does* sell on eBay, it's going to be shipped somewhere else. Meaning that the store's overall attach rate is going to fall, since the California customer that bought the Wii on eBay probably isn't going to drive to my Wal*Mart to buy their future games/accessories. Meaning that the store is likely to receive even *less* Wii's because of this. And less accessories. And less new releases (both number of copies and assortment). Which, again, means the customers get screwed.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2008, 02:11:23 AM
I can sympathize UncleBob, but those sound like problems that are up to WalMart to solve.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Kairon on May 25, 2008, 07:07:10 AM
Resellers are like parasites. No one really likes 'em, but they're a natural part of the world and who are we to argue with mother nature, or the tenets of capitalism?
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: UncleBob on May 25, 2008, 12:47:14 PM
I can sympathize UncleBob, but those sound like problems that are up to WalMart to solve.
Which they (and other retailers) do - by things like putting limits on purchases and forcing bundles onto customers.
Of course, then everyone whines about the limits and forced bundles.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Mikintosh on May 25, 2008, 01:03:41 PM
I don't think stores could regulate something like this (besides only selling one copy to each customer); I just think it's up to the individual to decide whether they want to be a total dillhole who abuses the capitalist system and extorts people out of money in the process. Though who would pay $120 for a damn scale is beyond me, even if it's endorsed by Super Miyamoto.
These are the kind of people that made me happy when PS3s starting selling on eBay below retail; I wish them nothing but failure in their endeavors.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2008, 02:30:47 PM
What I meant was Wal-Mart could negotiate its distribution terms and return policy with Nintendo. Not to mention update their stocking plans to reflect the reality of what percentage of purchasers are "scalpers"
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: UncleBob on May 25, 2008, 02:44:31 PM
I don't think the return policy is as much Nintendo as it is Wal*Mart.
First, who wants to buy a $250 New system and it not actually be new? Second, who wants to buy a Wii for their children, then find out that it's been loaded down with pictures of naked men?
As far as the distribution terms, it only makes sense for Nintendo to send more systems (games, accessories, etc...) to the stores that make them the most money.
I, personally, don't think there's anything "wrong", per say, with "scalping"... I agree with Pale that it's a "dick move", but it's far from my top ten things that concern me.
I'm just pointing out that there are greater consequences to the scalping issue than "lazy people" who don't work hard enough to get the stuff before the scalpers.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: King of Twitch on May 26, 2008, 01:17:49 AM
Sure there's consequences. Soccer moms give up on the Wii shortages thanks to scalpers and pick up the nearest equivalent on the shelf: PS3 or 360. After breaking their wallets and backs carrying it to the car, the kids soon grow up on an inferior game system without motion control, without knowing the timeless games of Mario Zelda and Metroid, and in a world without friend codes. Instead they are brought up on Halo 3 and GTA, taught that killing is fun and that online games can be interactive and hassle-free. In the end they've bankrupted their parents and ruined their back, grown dependent on button-based gameplay, and funded the conquest of their own living room.
But sure, go ahead and make your hundred dollars profit selling Wiis on ebay.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Nemo on May 26, 2008, 12:11:46 PM
Oh wow. A whole topic about me.
Well, everyone. I'm not denying that this was a dick move. My intent was to make some extra cash. It was actually a spur of the moment kind of thing. I woke up early and couldn't go back to sleep. I didn't need to be to work until 1 in the afternoon. I thought I might go buy Wii Fit for myself. I checked online and it was sold out online. So I figured I might go to stores in my area and try out the whole scalping thing. I bought 7 copies and put 6 up on eBay with the starting bid of 98ยข. It was kind of exciting because I just spent $650 and wasn't guaranteed to make all of that back.
It was a pretty fun experience, and I don't feel bad about selling items for profit. However, I don't see myself doing this again in the near future.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Kairon on May 26, 2008, 04:01:59 PM
With a starting bid of 98 cents, I'm having even more trouble seeing why people should be angry at you.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Pale on May 27, 2008, 10:23:00 AM
I'm just as angry at the people that are willing to pay so much more. =P
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: RABicle on May 27, 2008, 11:01:55 AM
I've always hated Nemo.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 27, 2008, 03:57:43 PM
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: UncleBob on May 27, 2008, 05:30:40 PM
I don't think anyone seriously is mad at Nemo for doing this... Some of us just think it's not the nicest thing to do. Even nice guys do "dick" things occasionally.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: vudu on May 27, 2008, 05:38:08 PM
who wants to buy a $250 New system and it not actually be new?
My roommate in college went through four "new" PlayStations before he finally got one that wasn't fried after a botched mod. Apparently, someone was really bad at soldering and kept returning systems to the store to try again.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 27, 2008, 05:41:54 PM
I don't think anyone seriously is mad at Nemo for doing this... Some of us just think it's not the nicest thing to do. Even nice guys do "dick" things occasionally.
Yeah Nemo, i think the first post (which happens to be from me after it was moved into its own thread) comes off a little harsh. I have no resentment towards you although i do dislike those types of practices.
I was actually kidding when i made that post but i can see how it might not come off that way.
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: Nemo on May 27, 2008, 11:17:18 PM
Be at peace. I didn't see this as a hostile, personal attack. I understand that I was just the first person to mention scalping before everyone started discussing pros + cons. The conversation wouldn't have been much different if anyone else mentioned it first.
No harm done. No loss of respect. (At least, I still respect you all just as much. Perhaps some of you respect me less, but that's up to you.)
Title: Re: Game Scalping
Post by: EasyCure on May 28, 2008, 10:16:59 AM
Oh ok, so GP is the only crazy/mean/doo-doo-faced scalper here. :p
