Gaming Forums => General Gaming => Topic started by: bosshogx on March 10, 2008, 12:08:37 PM
Title: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: bosshogx on March 10, 2008, 12:08:37 PM
I'd like to assume that everyone has played, or at least heard of, Starcraft here on the NWR forums. With all the information about Starcraft 2 coming down the pipe, I thought it was time to drum up some interest and see if anyone out there is looking forward to playing. I'm deeply obsessed with this game and am hoping someone here is wanting to talk about either the current game or the new one. I still play from time to time on battle.net and will gladly schedule a game with anyone who is willing.
In case you haven't heard, the Zerg were shown last night in Korea. Here's a few links showing of some of the new units in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dsuiYcOQ0c (story line teaser stuff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdJIauWjE8s (gameplay footage)
The Zerg are back to their swarming ways it seems. Plenty of burrowing sneakiness and infestation as well. Being mostly a Terran player, the thought of my Barracks getting infested and turning my own buildings against me scares the hell outta me. It's one thing when you see a large swarm coming right at you, it's a totally different thing when the buggers unburrow right in the middle of my base. Oh well, fun times ahead!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 10, 2008, 12:29:40 PM
I'm interested in playing this if they don't heavily favor it towards Multiplayer like Warcraft 3 (Every race had 1 unit that you never could build and use in Single Player)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 11, 2008, 03:05:40 AM
I have no idea how to play Starcraft, there seems to be some sort of RPS-system but I have no idea what it is.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on March 11, 2008, 06:53:10 AM
While I think Starcraft has good gameplay in general, I have a grudge against the franchise. Because of the Zerg, it's doubtful we'll ever see the Tyranid race in a video game ever again (1000 Crazy Style Points to folks familiar with the Tyranids).
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 11, 2008, 03:44:01 PM
Didn't Relic say the only reason they're not adding the Tyries is because they feel they can't do them justice?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Kairon on March 11, 2008, 10:01:05 PM
Tyrannids are awesome, but seriously ReverendNoahWhateley, the existence of the zerg onl;y makes other inset-like races more likely to be introduced. I seriously doubt the Tyrannid would get scared off by some pansy overgrown ants with a crazy broodmother. That said, I love the zerg!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on March 12, 2008, 02:14:44 AM
"We can't do them justice," is Relic's official statement, I believe, but if they can do Necrons, they could do 'Nids. They wouldn't be THAT difficult to reproduce in a game. They'd have a central, upgradeable mega-hub, much like the Necron Monolith (except it'd be a Norn Queen, on loan from a ship). For resources, you could elect to have a mobile synapse unit become immobile over a strategic location, thus simulating the Hive Mind effect while giving Tyranids a reason to capture locations. Also, it'd be a nice effect if creatures like Ripper swarms gained a points value as they fought and killed, only to be returned to the Norn Queen to be harversted for resources. It's not a perfect fix, but it'd work well for an RTS. I do hope that Kairon's right about the Zerg not preempting the Tyranids' role in video games, because they're really an interesting piece of fiction with a lot of history behind them.
But anyway. Starcraft!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 12, 2008, 03:27:01 PM
Well, I finally got to see my first ever live match of Starcraft 2. It looks and feels like the speed of the original has been kept intact even with a 3-D makeover. Here's a link to the video:
Got to see the new Banelings and Queen units in action, in addition to the fast, swarming Zerglings. The Banelings didn't seem to do a lot of damage, as 6 of them rammed a bunker and didn't destroy it. Maybe they are only good versus units and not buildings? Also got to see the after effects of a nuke drop... devastating.
The rally point lines and instant mining for the peons was a nice and much needed addition. I'm sure it's been a staple of RTS titles for the last 10 years, but I really only play Starcraft, so they feel new to me. Speaking of old Starcraft, anyone wanna play? I'm always willing to break out my disk and try and shake off the rust.
Yeah, I had no idea what the Tyranid were, so I had to Google them. Warhammer huh? I've never played the table top or video game versions of that IP. Is it any good?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on March 13, 2008, 03:27:19 AM
Table-top Warhammer is a lot of fun, but it's a serious drain on time and resources. If you want to invest large sums of money in a portfolio of precious metals like lead and pewter, it's a perfect hobby. The original WarCraft began its life as a Warhammer adaption, but the deal fell through and Blizzard called their new game WarCraft instead of Warhammer. There exists a sci-fi version of Warhammer that most assuredly inspired StarCraft.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 13, 2008, 08:33:05 AM
Table-top Warhammer is a lot of fun, but it's a serious drain on time and resources. If you want to invest large sums of money in portfolio of precious metals like lead and pewter, it's a perfect hobby. The original WarCraft began its life as a Warhammer adaption, but the deal fell through and Blizzard called their new game WarCraft instead of Warhammer. There exists a sci-fi version of Warhammer that most assuredly inspired StarCraft.
If it didn't cost so much and wasn't so hard to find a match Warhammer would appeal to me. Though I'm still considering picking up some of the books that is more lore then rules because all of there universes intrigue me.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Sundoulos on March 13, 2008, 08:47:39 AM
Man, when I heard that Starcraft 2 was actually announced last year, it made me dig up a copy of the original to make a new playthrough. I still need to play through Brood War again. After all these years, it's still just as much fun as the day I bought it. I can't wait for the new release, though I suspect it won't be released until 3rd quarter 2009 or something like that. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
Anyway...I noticed in the trailer video that bosshogx posted, there was a Protoss at the end of the trailer. I first I assumed that it might be Raszagal, whose mind had been taken by Kerrigan in Brood War, but then I remembered that she was killed in the end by Zeratul. I wonder if this is just a sort of flashback or the introduction of a new character.
Just to show how nerdy I am, I've actually watched some of the professional Starcraft matches on youtube, at least the ones narrated by KlazartSC (http://www.youtube.com/user/KlazartSC?ob=1). It's amazing how seriously some people are about this game. I was, at best, always just an average player.
By the way, Terran, Protoss or Zerg? I've always preferred the Protoss.
"En Taro Tassadar!"
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 13, 2008, 06:16:11 PM
Just to show how nerdy I am, I've actually watched some of the professional Starcraft matches on youtube, at least the ones narrated by KlazartSC (http://www.youtube.com/user/KlazartSC?ob=1). It's amazing how seriously some people are about this game. I was, at best, always just an average player.
By the way, Terran, Protoss or Zerg? I've always preferred the Protoss.
"En Taro Tassadar!"
Watching pro Korean players on YouTube doesn't make you nerdy, well I hope not, because I do it myself. :) I can't get enough of Starcraft, but I'm like you, only an average player at best. When I get on to Battle.net, I either face pro's or complete noobs. It's pretty tough to find someone at my level. Oh, and no money maps. That's lame!
Back to the game, I'm really digging the Queen. She was all but useless in the first game and it seems like her role is much more defined this time around. She seems to be all about the base and it's defenses. All of her skills/spells are geared towards protecting or enhancing the Zerg buildings. That's a nice direction to take a previously useless unit. I'm definitely concerned the most about the Roach. A Zerg unit that regenerates really fast screams "difficult to balance properly". We'll see.
Can't wait for more info on the game, hey they could pull a Sakurai and do a daily update! CraftDojo! My God would that suck. I can see it now:
Are those wings? Yes, but it cannot fly. Ha ha! That would be dangerous!
The Zergling is a fast and ferocious melee attacker. The little units use their speed to swarm and overwhelm larger units. They are one of the weaker units in the game, but overcome this by erupting in pairs from their eggs. That's right, two units for the price of one!
The staple unit of the Terran army. The Marine is brash, rude, and downright mean which makes them the perfect unit to handle the hostile encounters with the technologically advanced Protoss and the alien Zerg.
Armed with a Guass rifle, the Marine can shoot both ground and air targets. He is the only unit that can fire from a distance amongst the starting units for all three races. Marines don't last very long on their own, so make sure to move them in groups and try and keep their lady friends, the Medic, near by to give them a much needed health boost in the midst of combat.
The Protoss Zealot is back and badder then ever. Sporting twin psi-blades and personal shielding, the Zealot is a force to be reckoned with. A single Zealot has been known to take down four Zerglings or Marines all by himself!
In that Picture the Terrains Buildings look like there made from Plastic.
Yeah, they still have more work to do on the buildings, but it's still early. The buildings used to be a lot more colorful and vibrant. I'm sure that the Terran will be even more dirty and nasty by the time it's all said and done. Now, you wanna talk about plastic, wait until you see the Protoss Dragoons. They may make an appearance later this week. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 18, 2008, 04:07:42 AM
I wonder if the time you need to waste on the interface will be reduced so you can focus on playing instead.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 18, 2008, 10:14:46 AM
The Zerg Hydralisk (or Hydra for short) makes it’s return to Starcraft 2 with a deadlier look and a power increase too. The Hydralisk is the first air to ground attacker that the Zerg army can put forth to the field of battle. The Hydra attacks by shooting spines out of its body at high speed. The spines can rip apart even heavily armored units like Battleships and Carriers!
I wonder if the time you need to waste on the interface will be reduced so you can focus on playing instead.
Do you mean the more generalized macro functions? If so, they have already stated that a lot of the more common place RTS standards are being implemented in Starcraft 2. Setting rally points now show a line from the building to the point. In addition, setting a rally point for workers on resources will have them go straight to gathering without being told to. Also, there will be a on screen icon to select worker units that are idle after finishing a building.
Units can be selected in to much larger numbers as opposed to the original limit of 12. Currently there is no limit to a group size, but that may change in the final product. Buildings can still be hotkeyed to number keys, but now you can assign more than one building to a number. So, let's say you assign your 4 barracks to the "1" key. After that you can press "1" then "m" to have each barracks make 1 marine each. Even better, just before you start an attack, you could press "1", "m", "m", "c", and right click at the entrance to the enemy base. This would have all 4 barracks make 2 marines followed by 1 medic all of which would walk right to the enemies front door. Meanwhile, you can concentrate on the fighting and not on the reinforcements. By the time your guys are dead, fresh troops would be waiting to keep the pressure on! Hotkeys FTW! God, I love Starcraft.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 19, 2008, 08:09:33 AM
The Terran Reaper is a new type of hit-and-run specialist who excels at base raiding. Using their jump packs, the Reaper can navigate high and low terrain like a breeze. This makes opponents weary of protecting their resource line even more than before. The reaper attacks using paired hand guns to pick on smaller units.
Reapers are the most hardened of criminals. Don’t accept candy from them!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 19, 2008, 09:28:47 PM
There's Candy? Best... Craft... Ever...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: mastro on March 20, 2008, 02:30:22 AM
Cannot wait for SC2 loved the first game and I am sure I will love this one as well. I am very excited about the zerg more than ever. I remember starting as a protoss player mostly because they are the easiest to use but after awhile you realize the zerg are just plain awesome.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 20, 2008, 05:34:06 AM
Units can be selected in to much larger numbers as opposed to the original limit of 12. Currently there is no limit to a group size, but that may change in the final product.
That limit was what I was mostly talking about, it's just stupid.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 20, 2008, 09:13:27 AM
Cannot wait for SC2 loved the first game and I am sure I will love this one as well. I am very excited about the zerg more than ever. I remember starting as a protoss player mostly because they are the easiest to use but after awhile you realize the zerg are just plain awesome.
I found Protoss hard because of there initial ramp up time is long when you are not tuned in to the Protoss vibe. Terrans were more pick up and play friendly to me.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 20, 2008, 10:55:46 AM
The Immortal is the descendant of the Dragoon only with one major difference: a special “Hard Shield”. The shield activates whenever the Immortal comes under attack by heavy blasts or melee attacks. This shield allows the Immortal to march in on a group of Sieged Tanks without fear, a feat previously unheard of by any Protoss unit. The downfall is that the shield will not activate against small unit fire, therefore it’s crucial to keep your Immortals away from Marines and Zerglings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEsnbTcjeM
Witness the hardened shield in action. The tanks stand no chance.
Units can be selected in to much larger numbers as opposed to the original limit of 12. Currently there is no limit to a group size, but that may change in the final product.
That limit was what I was mostly talking about, it's just stupid.
True, but remember that the game was made over a decade ago and times have changed. I imagine that unit groups will probably be somewhere around 36 in size. You really don't need much more than that, unless you are massing a ton of zerglings.
I found Protoss hard because of there initial ramp up time is long when you are not tuned in to the Protoss vibe. Terrans were more pick up and play friendly to me.
I couldn't agree more. I started with the Terran, moved to the Zerg and ended up with the Protoss. I can play them all reasonably well, but I'm at my best with the Terran. To me, playing the Terran is harder due to the extra micro management of M&M against the Zerg or Tanks & Vultures against the Protoss. Scouting is also far more crucial. Finding out that the Zerg went fast air as opposed to Lurkers can end your game real quick if you aren't prepared. Thank goodness for Comscan stations.
Oh and yes, there will be candy in Starcraft 2. I can't prove it, I just have a feeling. Although, I think that Hershey should promote M&M's as the official candy of Starcraft 2. For those not in the know: M&M=Marines and Medics in Starcraft. Hmm...Zergling shaped gummy bears would be cool too.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: decoyman on March 20, 2008, 12:39:34 PM
I like your Dojo-like presentation. And I like Starcraft. This thread wins!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 20, 2008, 05:05:33 PM
I like your Dojo-like presentation. And I like Starcraft. This thread wins!
Thanks! It's actually kind of tough finding all the pictures and making comments for each. Well, it's not tough per say, just time consuming. I'll keep updating it as long as people keep reading it. I'll probably do an entire week of updates over the weekend so that I'm not creating the update just before I post it. Whew!
Of course, unlike the Dojo, you could get all the info on Starcraft 2 you want by simply Googling. I think this is more fun though. I'm also hoping that this thread can inspire people to play some Starcraft: Brood Wars with me sometime. A special NWR room and game.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Svevan on March 20, 2008, 05:28:17 PM
I approve of this thread. It is my only source for Starcraft information. (that means that your monopoly on my brain had better not be abused, bosshog!)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 21, 2008, 04:57:12 AM
True, but remember that the game was made over a decade ago and times have changed. I imagine that unit groups will probably be somewhere around 36 in size. You really don't need much more than that, unless you are massing a ton of zerglings.
Why have a limit at all? C&C never had a limit, age is no excuse.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 21, 2008, 08:49:22 AM
True, but remember that the game was made over a decade ago and times have changed. I imagine that unit groups will probably be somewhere around 36 in size. You really don't need much more than that, unless you are massing a ton of zerglings.
Why have a limit at all? C&C never had a limit, age is no excuse.
I guess you have a point, but outside of the Zerg, a large selection box for units wouldn't be used that often. I rarely have groups larger than 36 units at a time and I'm usually separating units by type (Marines in one, Medics in another). All that being said though, there is no reason not to have unlimited unit selection and unless they pull a Nintendo on us, I see an unlimited selection being in the game.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 21, 2008, 08:54:04 AM
One of the best aspects of the original Starcraft was the ability to upgrade your starting units to make them useful through out the entire game, not just the beginning. Starcraft 2 keeps this mentality alive. Behold some of the Marine upgrades!
Stim Packs: This useful little needles cause Marines to double their movement and rate of fire for about 10 seconds. The draw back? They lose 10 hit points each time they use it. Better keep those Medics nearby.
U-238 Shells: This upgrade allows the Marines to shoot a bit further than normal. It’s a one-time upgrade and lasts until the game is over. It can make a big difference in a Marines first strike and hit-and-run tactics.
Combat Shields: This new upgrade gives the Marines a permanent boost in hit points from 40 to 55. Some recent pictures have shown Marines with and without shields in the same army, leaving people to believe the shield may be lost in some way. Just remember, everyone loves more hit points, especially chemical abusing drunken rednecks.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 21, 2008, 09:07:21 AM
My update isn't here... :'( Sakurraaaiiiii Bosshogxxxxx...
jk
Edit: Yay it came when I posted.
On the Unit selection. I be more annoyed if the don't allow me to have 1 unit in Multiple groups. Think about a main force and strategic strike forces within.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 21, 2008, 10:34:25 AM
My update isn't here... :'( Sakurraaaiiiii Bosshogxxxxx...
jk
Edit: Yay it came when I posted.
On the Unit selection. I be more annoyed if the don't allow me to have 1 unit in Multiple groups. Think about a main force and strategic strike forces within.
I try and post up my updates early in the morning, but being as though I'm at work sometimes it takes a while. I really shouldn't be doing it at all...hope I don't get caught. :(
Unit selection: You mean like putting a group of 3 Ghosts in a group of 12 marines and then putting the same 3 Ghosts in a group of 8 Tanks? You can do that in Starcraft 1, so you should be able to do that in the sequel.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 21, 2008, 03:12:30 PM
Yeah, I'm hoping they don't ax that. C&C has a problem with that if memory serves.
I'm sure you won't get in trouble. Its not like your leaking any new info and Smash Dojo has full blown parody sites.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 23, 2008, 09:01:46 AM
BTW, is it just me or does that Protoss Immortal look kinda Necron?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 23, 2008, 04:53:05 PM
Blizzard copying WarHammer franchise without a license, AGAIN. confirmed.
Does this mean that Nintendo ripped of WarHammer too? Of course everything is a rip-off of Tolkien, but that's neither here nor there.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on March 24, 2008, 04:41:10 AM
It does kind of have the Necron ceremonial headdress thing going on, but it's not as outwardly sinister as a Necron construct. To me, it looks more "inspired by" than "ripping off." But again, that's just me.
Speaking of which, have you ever tried Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War, bosshogx? It's somewhat similar to StarCraft, with a heavy emphasis on controlling squads instead of individuals. The units generally have a lot of character, and just listening to their chatter is quite enjoyable. In particular, I love the voice acting of the Chaos Cultists and pretty much every Ork unit (especially the Mad Docs). If you haven't tried it, it might be a nice diversion for you until StarCraft is released. :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 24, 2008, 08:08:29 AM
The Terran Barracks is the starting point for all Terran Infantry. The Barracks, like most Terran buildings, can lift off and fly to different points on the map. Useful for expanding, avoiding ground melee attackers, and scouting. Starcraft veterans often use their Barracks to fly ahead of an attacking group and extend the range of vision for their Siege Tanks. Here are some of the units the Barracks can produce:
You called down the thunder, now you reap the whirlwind.
This is just the beginning though. More units may get added or removed as the game testing continues. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 24, 2008, 09:25:22 AM
I don't think adding or removing units will happen at this stage of the balancing process.
BTW, if you want to try DoW, don't get Soulstorm first, that's buggy out the wazoo, was made by a different developer. Also you need the expansion/game a faction was introduced in to play it, for the original four (SM, Eldar, Chaos, Orkz) that's vanilla DoW, IG needs Winter Assault, Tau and Necron are Dark Crusade and Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle are Soulstorm. Yes, sounds like a huge ripoff but then again that's 1-2 extra factions per expansion and the original 4 were already plenty, they're sized the same as the factions in other RTSes, they're not just cookie-cutter addons.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 24, 2008, 10:03:39 AM
I don't think adding or removing units will happen at this stage of the balancing process.
BTW, if you want to try DoW, don't get Soulstorm first, that's buggy out the wazoo, was made by a different developer. Also you need the expansion/game a faction was introduced in to play it, for the original four (SM, Eldar, Chaos, Orkz) that's vanilla DoW, IG needs Winter Assault, Tau and Necron are Dark Crusade and Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle are Soulstorm. Yes, sounds like a huge ripoff but then again that's 1-2 extra factions per expansion and the original 4 were already plenty, they're sized the same as the factions in other RTSes, they're not just cookie-cutter addons.
Actually, they have been adding, removing and changing units pretty frequently over the last few months. SC2 is still in it's alpha stage and may not be ready for beta testing for quite a while. A perfect example is the Firebat. The Firebat has been in and out of the build at least twice. They've been out for a while now and don't seem to be returning. Recently they cut the Medic out in favor of a Medivac dropship. After they make cuts and changes they try and rebalance. All said and done though, I need the Medic back in the game or something that can do what she does well. *sigh*
As for WarHammer, it's funny you guys should bring that up. I was visiting a friend on Saturday and he showed me WarHammer 40k on the PC. I watched him play a game vs the comp as the Chaos Marines. It was definitely different from SC, but not in a bad way. It seemed more like Warcraft 3 with the focus on the micro, although I am basing this off of one game. It was a little jarring seeing buildings fall out of the sky as opposed to being made by a peon unit and it was even stranger watching units magically appear when you reinforced your squad. I suppose that doesn't matter too much after you've played a while.
I guess my big questions are: Which version should I play? Do they sell them all in some form of a "plenty pack" which would include all versions? Are each of the 8 factions truly unique or do they overlap each other? Finally, having 8 factions sounds like it's a nightmare to balance, did they?
If I can find the game cheap, and it can run on my dated system, I will pick it up. I'd probably need some people to play with and it appears that their are some fans here on the NWR forums. Hint, hint. Of course, if I get spanked to hard, I will demand we play SC in retaliation. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 24, 2008, 10:22:59 AM
I don't think adding or removing units will happen at this stage of the balancing process.
BTW, if you want to try DoW, don't get Soulstorm first, that's buggy out the wazoo, was made by a different developer. Also you need the expansion/game a faction was introduced in to play it, for the original four (SM, Eldar, Chaos, Orkz) that's vanilla DoW, IG needs Winter Assault, Tau and Necron are Dark Crusade and Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle are Soulstorm. Yes, sounds like a huge ripoff but then again that's 1-2 extra factions per expansion and the original 4 were already plenty, they're sized the same as the factions in other RTSes, they're not just cookie-cutter addons.
So you saying Get this (http://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-Dawn-Of-War-Platinum/dp/B000RCOVXI/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1206368428&sr=8-1) and Soulstorm?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on March 24, 2008, 01:47:31 PM
Dark Crusade is a necessity. Even if you don't like Tau or Necrons (and why wouldn't you?), the single-player campaign is a blast. Upgrading your commander is so addicting, I actually went through and beat the game with all the races (twice with the Orks and Necrons). I'm boycotting Soulstorm, simply because it doesn't have Tyranids in it.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: KDR_11k on March 24, 2008, 01:55:08 PM
Soulstorm is full of gamebreaking bugs, I'm avoiding it for now. Relic is pretty slow to release patches. No idea what the current balancing is, Relic's balancing team is notorious for making weird changes all the time. Then again Soulstorm was made by Iron Lore, those might be responsible for the support instead.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: bosshogx on March 25, 2008, 08:03:27 AM
The Terran have been known to be flexible. This was shown in their ability to “add on” to their existing buildings. In the original Starcraft, you could add a machine shop to a factory, or a control tower to a Starport. Starcraft 2 will be keeping up this tradition, but streamlining it. It now be easier for new players to understand and make add on buildings more useful overall.
The Tech Lab will serve as the the upgrade building for any unit producing structure. Instead of using different buildings, like the old Academy, the Tech Lab will contain all upgrades for the structure it’s attached to. If you attach it to a Barracks, then you can research Marine and Medic upgrades. Take that same Tech Lab and land a Factory next to it and it will allow you to research Vechile upgrades instead.
The Tech Lab will also allow you to make units you couldn’t normally make. For example, without a Tech Lab, the Terrans can only produce Marines from a Barracks. Add a Tech Lab and now they can make Medics, Marauders, and Ghosts as well. So the question becomes: Why would you ever not want a Tech Lab. Well….
(http://sc2battle.com/image/news/1up/t7.jpg)
The Reactor
The Reactor is a new add on for Starcraft 2. Attach it to any unit producing building and it will allow a player to create two units at a time. The drawback? The Reactor can only create units that don’t require a Tech Lab. So you can create a variety of different units or mass produce some low end units for a quick army. Better yet, you can do both by creating multiple buildings with various attachments. Flexible indeed.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread
Post by: Ceric on March 25, 2008, 10:17:25 AM
Thats cool. I sort of wish one of them would work like a repair bay.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - accessories sold seperately
Post by: bosshogx on March 25, 2008, 10:53:02 AM
Thats cool. I sort of wish one of them would work like a repair bay.
Not a bad idea, but SCV's can repair any vehicle or building by themselves. Most Terran armies have a few SCV's tagging around to make repairs or Missile Turrets in the field.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - accessories sold seperately
Post by: Kairon on March 25, 2008, 04:51:35 PM
God the new terran add-on system is awesome.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - accessories sold seperately
Post by: Ceric on March 25, 2008, 07:23:09 PM
Thats cool. I sort of wish one of them would work like a repair bay.
Not a bad idea, but SCV's can repair any vehicle or building by themselves. Most Terran armies have a few SCV's tagging around to make repairs or Missile Turrets in the field.
Yeah but in your base I rather have them harvesting full blast instead of routine maintenance if I didn't have to. (I'm also hoping there will be a ground base turret...)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - work, work, work
Post by: bosshogx on March 26, 2008, 08:03:03 AM
The Zerg Drone has a unique role to the Zerg. Not only are they used to gather minerals and gas, but they also can mutate themselves into structures. In Starcraft 2, the Drone will mine minerals faster than the Protoss or Terran, but in exchange they only mine 6 per trip instead of 8.
So there we were “mining” our own business. Get it? Mining. Ahem, well that Purple Brood had to come and wreck the place up. The Queen will not be happy.
Isn't it though. It allows them to go Zerg-like w/the mass marines or Toss-like w/the tech units. It will probably be best to have a couple of both add-ons to maximize dood creation.
Yeah but in your base I rather have them harvesting full blast instead of routine maintenance if I didn't have to. (I'm also hoping there will be a ground base turret...)
True, a healthy economy is important, but you're going to have guys committed to making structures early on, so you can take those guys and put them out in the field later on. I've heard rumor that there may be a unit that helps with the "routine maintenance" and ground base turrets... ;) Stay tuned! (or just google it, but why ruin the surprise?)
So they didn't have them morph into another unit? I'm sort of surprised.
They morph into buildings already. It might be a little confusing to have them evolve into other units in addition to buildings. Besides, what would they morph into? A stronger version of the same unit? An attacking unit?
Oh yeah, in case anyone didn't notice, I've decided to update the thread title with each update in honor of Bill's Smash Brother thread. I always though that was a nice touch. I also want to get some of you forum regulars to fire up some Starcraft with me. I play but I'm by no means a dominate player. I just like to play for fun against people I know. The game runs about $10-20 new and PC power is hardly a concern:
Windows 95/98/NT Pentium 90 or higher 16 MB RAM DirectX-Compatible SVGA Video Card Microsoft-Compatible Mouse Double-Speed CD-ROM (Quad Speed for Cinematics)
:o Ouch, I might need to upgrade my PC to play this one. :D Seriously, if you want to play, let me know.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - work, work, work
Post by: Ceric on March 26, 2008, 01:46:23 PM
Quote
... DirectX-Compatible SVGA Video Card ...
What, this and vista want me to have rudimentary Video Card. The nerve :P
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - work, work, work
Post by: bosshogx on March 27, 2008, 07:56:22 AM
The Protoss Stalker is the Dark Templar version of the older Dragoon technology. Although it does not possess the firepower and shielding of the Immortal, the Stalker has a unique ability to teleport short distances. This ability, called Blinking, can be used to move up and down cliffs, chase down enemy opponents, or run away from melee units.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTzj9-Oz0Z8>Make sure not to use these lines on a first date.[/url]
Don’t run, you’ll just die tired. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjnxGelg2hM)
Oh yeah, in case anyone didn't notice, I've decided to update the thread title with each update in honor of Bill's Smash Brother thread. I always though that was a nice touch. I also want to get some of you forum regulars to fire up some Starcraft with me. I play but I'm by no means a dominate player. I just like to play for fun against people I know.
Oh, heck, yeah! Count me in. I guess I'm not really a regular poster (yet), but I'd love to dust off my old copy of Starcraft.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - work, work, work
Post by: Svevan on March 27, 2008, 03:33:50 PM
Ugh, zerg are, and always have been, so gross. Why do people want to play as these living fleshy nasty David Cronenberg mutations? Yuck.
Come on, you know you want to snuggle up next to one of those slimy, pulsating piles of goo. Or skip hand in hand with an armored cockroach mutation that could rip your head off. Although, you haven't seen gross yet. There's a Zerg unit on the horizon that might make you hurl when you see it. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Smoke39 on March 27, 2008, 03:43:15 PM
Ugh, zerg are, and always have been, so gross. Why do people want to play as these living fleshy nasty David Cronenberg mutations? Yuck.
Because it's fun to infest the universe. The creep is a brillaint concept in that regard. Spreading goop everywhere as your base expands. It's awesome.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Svevan on March 27, 2008, 04:19:46 PM
the grossest part is that their buildings are ALIVE.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Smoke39 on March 27, 2008, 04:25:48 PM
If by "grossest" you mean "awesomest." o:
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Sundoulos on March 27, 2008, 05:04:08 PM
Ugh, zerg are, and always have been, so gross. Why do people want to play as these living fleshy nasty David Cronenberg mutations? Yuck.
Because it's fun to infest the universe. The creep is a brillaint concept in that regard. Spreading goop everywhere as your base expands. It's awesome.
Aesthetically, I didn't like the Zerg because they did seem so disgusting and, well, evil! They are, however, a unique faction to play. I did always think the creep was a nice, if occassionally infuriating, touch.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Smoke39 on March 27, 2008, 05:33:52 PM
That's just it. It's like playing the villain. The villain is always cool.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Kairon on March 27, 2008, 06:26:20 PM
And when you're the bad guy, you already know that you're gonna lose in the end, so you don't get too invested in the story and can have more fun. It's freeing to be the guy who has to lose in the end, it's a blank page that you can go crazy on.
Also, the Zerg aren't gross. They're very cute. Zerglings are like dogs, except dogs that are always born in twins and thus already have some sort of empathic connection with their fellow zergling. The saddest thing in the world is an odd number of zerglings.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 27, 2008, 06:27:58 PM
Also, the Zerg aren't gross. They're very cute. Zerglings are like dogs, except dogs that are always born in twins and thus already have some sort of empathic connection with their fellow zergling. The saddest thing in the world is an odd number of zerglings.
Kairon has a va-jay-jay
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: Kairon on March 27, 2008, 06:36:55 PM
No. I mean... think about it. Every zergling is like a little zerg story of castor and pollux.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I always feel like, somebody's Stalking me...
Post by: bosshogx on March 28, 2008, 08:09:24 AM
New to Starcraft 2 are the High Yield Mineral Patches. These mineral patches give an additional 4 minerals on top of the usual 8. Each trip by a worker will net a total of 12 minerals. They can be easily spotted because of their unique yellow color. But beware, most of the time these patches will be in hard to defend areas.
[sarcasm] No, no, no. Yellow crystals are nothing at all like this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of. It's a completely brand new and innovative concept thats never been seen before in any prior RTS. Dustin Browder, the Lead Designer of Starcraft 2, would never borrow from other RTS titles. Never mind the fact that he was the Lead Designer of C&C: Red Alert 2 and C&C: Generals. I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of is so similar to Yellow Crystals. In fact, I'm willing to bet that this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of was a rip-off of the Yellow Crystals! There's probably some time machine thing at EA they use to jump into the future and steal other people's ideas. Yeah, that must be it.... [/sarcasm]
Awesome thread, I knew next to nothing about SC2 until I read this thread and now I know somewhat more. Kudos!
No problem man. Feel free to Google to your hearts content for more information or just drop by here to get the "Dojo Trickle" of information. You play any SC1? I'm thinking about starting a thread in Matchmaking and was hoping to get some people to join in.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Don't eat yellow minerals.
Post by: Ceric on March 30, 2008, 09:19:53 AM
[sarcasm] No, no, no. Yellow crystals are nothing at all like this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of. It's a completely brand new and innovative concept thats never been seen before in any prior RTS. Dustin Browder, the Lead Designer of Starcraft 2, would never borrow from other RTS titles. Never mind the fact that he was the Lead Designer of C&C: Red Alert 2 and C&C: Generals. I'm sure it's a complete coincidence that this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of is so similar to Yellow Crystals. In fact, I'm willing to bet that this "Blue Tiberium" you speak of was a rip-off of the Yellow Crystals! There's probably some time machine thing at EA they use to jump into the future and steal other people's ideas. Yeah, that must be it.... [/sarcasm]
OR you could be dead right. Take your pick. ;D
I personally would go with that SC2 has actually been in Concept and development so long that EA Ninjas had infiltrated Blizzard and stolen these precious mold breaking plans. The Time Machine Press Release is just a cover to maintain the unassailability of the Blizzard Fortress to the public. :P
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Don't eat yellow minerals.
Post by: bosshogx on March 31, 2008, 08:44:24 AM
The Terran Nomad is the newest in the line of deep space exploration and colonization ships. The Nomad was made to handle the harsh environments of new worlds and boasts a large variety of sensors. These sensors allow it to detect cloaked and burrowed enemy units anywhere near it. The Nomad is replacing the older, out of date Science Vessel.
**Please note: The Nomad has recently underwent a complete overhaul of it’s design and will probably not look like this in the final game.**
BTW, the blue tiberium equivalent, gemstones, was already present in C&C:RA :P
Hmm...gemstones first appeared in C&C:RA, Browder was the Lead Designer. Yellow Minerals appear in Starcraft 2, Browder is the Lead Designer. My God! Browder is the one who used the EA time machine! Dun-dun-duhn!!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Nomadic wanderers
Post by: Ceric on March 31, 2008, 01:58:55 PM
I wonder what the Nomad will look like now. I sort of liked its current design.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Nomadic wanderers
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on March 31, 2008, 02:39:18 PM
Its design in those shots makes it look like some sort of heavy lifting utility vehicle, not a science vessel.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Nomadic wanderers
Post by: Ceric on March 31, 2008, 06:53:58 PM
Its design in those shots makes it look like some sort of heavy lifting utility vehicle, not a science vessel.
It is. It wasn't designed for a science vessel it just happen to become that. Sort of like the moon vehicles that became mobile labs for the geological center. Its an interesting concept and sort of fits better with the personality of the terrans.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Nomadic wanderers
Post by: bosshogx on April 01, 2008, 08:28:03 AM
The Terran Nomad isn’t just for detecting enemy units. Oh no, this bad boy is willing to help out in the fight too. Below are a few tricks that the Nomad has up it’s sleeve.
The Auto-Turret can be made onsite by the Nomad at anytime. Fly by and drop a few off to defend your expansion or attack an enemy expansion. Give your army a fall back spot when being pursued by enemies.
Mine Drones are created by the Nomad to act as first strike surprise defenses. Once deployed, the Drone will create and plant 4 mines around itself and then cloak to render itself invisible. When the enemy approaches, the mines uproot themselves and attack. Afterwards, the Drone uncloaks, replaces it’s mines and cloaks again.
Nano repair lets the Nomad repair any mechanical unit by 200 hp for the cost of 75 energy. How useful is that?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Auto-Turrets FTW
Post by: Ceric on April 01, 2008, 08:52:22 AM
In the Nomad description they hinted at the ship itself having weaponry. I'm sort of interested if you heard if it has even rudimentary anti-air capability.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Auto-Turrets FTW
Post by: bosshogx on April 01, 2008, 10:28:16 AM
In the Nomad description they hinted at the ship itself having weaponry. I'm sort of interested if you heard if it has even rudimentary anti-air capability.
Right now the Nomad is unarmed and only able to attack through the structures it creates. The turrets it creates are ground to ground attacks only, but that may change to be either ground to air as well. If not, they may give the Nomad an air-to-air. Honestly, I don't see that happening. The Nomad is being billed as a replacement Science Vessel, so it's primary use is spell casting and detection. If it did get an attack, it would probably be very weak and not worth the effort, not unlike the Arbiter from Starcraft 1.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Auto-Turrets FTW
Post by: Ceric on April 01, 2008, 01:51:27 PM
In the Nomad description they hinted at the ship itself having weaponry. I'm sort of interested if you heard if it has even rudimentary anti-air capability.
Right now the Nomad is unarmed and only able to attack through the structures it creates. The turrets it creates are ground to ground attacks only, but that may change to be either ground to air as well. If not, they may give the Nomad an air-to-air. Honestly, I don't see that happening. The Nomad is being billed as a replacement Science Vessel, so it's primary use is spell casting and detection. If it did get an attack, it would probably be very weak and not worth the effort, not unlike the Arbiter from Starcraft 1.
I figured as much but it be fitting in with the description they gave.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Auto-Turrets FTW
Post by: bosshogx on April 01, 2008, 02:34:37 PM
The Zerg Mutalisk, or Muta for short, is the staple air unit for the Zerg airforce. Much like many Zerg units, Mutas are not dangerous by themselves, but when packed into large groups, can cause massive damage and headaches to their opponents. Mutas excel at hit and run style harassment strategies. Their only weapon is to spit out a glaive worm which, upon hitting it’s target, will bounce and hit up to two more enemies.
No words could describe how horrifying that would be seeing something like that looking down upon you.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Harassment 101
Post by: Sundoulos on April 02, 2008, 01:59:06 PM
Mutas FTW. Mutalisk/Guardian groupings were my favorite Zerg weapon.
I'm glad that the Terrans are getting ground-based turrets, as well-as the surface to air turrets. The Nomad looks a little more useful than the Science Vessel, which was my least-utilized Terran unit. I almost always just used it for defensive scouting.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Harassment 101
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on April 02, 2008, 07:49:15 PM
One of the things I strongly dislike about WarCraft 3 is that you never really control an army; late in a match, your battle groups consist of like six or seven units. From recent pictures, it looks like StarCraft 3 is a step in the opposite direction.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Harassment 101
Post by: Ceric on April 02, 2008, 11:16:55 PM
One of the things I strongly dislike about WarCraft 3 is that you never really control an army; late in a match, your battle groups consist of like six or seven units. From recent pictures, it looks like StarCraft 3 is a step in the opposite direction.
Agree. In Warcraft 3 your very rarely did the whole base building thing. It was like Diablo with a party sometimes.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Harassment 101
Post by: bosshogx on April 03, 2008, 08:44:38 AM
The Protoss still deploy the multi-purpose automated cannons for base defense. For Starcraft 2, there has been a slight twist on the cannon. The cannon can still detect invisible enemies, shoot ground and air, but now you can move it around your base. That’s right, problems with enemies dropping in on your money line with your only cannons defending your entrance? No problem! Tell those Phase cannons to ball up into energy and warp to the money line to help thwart invaders.
Here they are in action. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqNihv8_F3U)
The actual cannon appears from the 45 second mark to the 1:19 mark. The other units shown in this clip, made back in August 07, have since been removed from the game. They will still be available in the map maker mode though.
Soul Hunter is the one that is gone isn't it? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
Oh yeah. The Soul Hunter and the Tempest are gone. The Soul Hunter was unbalanced and got the cut. The Tempest was basically a copy of the Carrier that had a super shield that activated versus ground attacks only. It also couldn't shoot air. It was found to be not different enough from the regular Carrier and got the axe. The Twilight Archon is now just called the Archon, but it has been given a new spell.
Oh my, look at me getting ahead of myself. Clever Ceric, trying to pry more information from me. ;D j/k Keep firing away with those questions!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Mobile defenses? Unfair!
Post by: Ceric on April 03, 2008, 10:22:31 AM
Soul Hunter is the one that is gone isn't it? I don't remember hearing anything about it.
Oh yeah. The Soul Hunter and the Tempest are gone. The Soul Hunter was unbalanced and got the cut. The Tempest was basically a copy of the Carrier that had a super shield that activated versus ground attacks only. It also couldn't shoot air. It was found to be not different enough from the regular Carrier and got the axe. The Twilight Archon is now just called the Archon, but it has been given a new spell.
Oh my, look at me getting ahead of myself. Clever Ceric, trying to pry more information from me. ;D j/k Keep firing away with those questions!
Looks like the Tempest was also a little faster and a smaller target. I hope the super-shield is an upgrade for the Carrier. I love me some Carriers but there so slow...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Mobile defenses? Unfair!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 03, 2008, 11:57:01 AM
This thread is getting me interested in the game. I didn't play as much of the original as I would have liked, and I was never any good at it, but I enjoyed it. Plus I have to support Blizzard; as a Mac user I love a company that not only releases the Mac version of a game at the same time as the PC version, but releases it on the same disc.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Mobile defenses? Unfair!
Post by: bosshogx on April 03, 2008, 10:57:33 PM
Looks like the Tempest was also a little faster and a smaller target. I hope the super-shield is an upgrade for the Carrier. I love me some Carriers but there so slow...
I don't think the Carrier will be getting any changes. It's probably going to come back the exact same. Giving it the upgraded shield would make them too overpowering versus Terran Goliaths or Zerg Hydralisks. Carriers are at their best when attacking from cliffs, water, and high ground. It causes all kinds of chaos amongst the attacking ground units. If you hit and run using focus fire with any form of terrain advantage, the battle is yours.
This thread is getting me interested in the game. I didn't play as much of the original as I would have liked, and I was never any good at it, but I enjoyed it. Plus I have to support Blizzard; as a Mac user I love a company that not only releases the Mac version of a game at the same time as the PC version, but releases it on the same disc.
I'm glad you're getting hyped. Jump aboard the train with the rest of us. I'm going to be starting a NWR forum member Starcraft thread in Matchmaking in a few weeks, you should join us. Most everybody will be completely out of practice or total noobs. The aim is to have fun.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Mobile defenses? Unfair!
Post by: bosshogx on April 04, 2008, 08:13:16 AM
The Protoss Phase Prism is a new and interesting take on the old Protoss shuttle. The Phase Prism can transport units much like a Shuttle, but instead does it by converting the Protoss units into pure energy. Not content to be just a Shuttle replacement, the Phase Prism also contains Pylon energy which it can deploy at anytime by stopping it’s movement and changing shape. This allows the Protoss to have a power replacement at any time in case their Pylons get destroyed.
Here is a Phase Prism restoring power to some cannons. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqLcND11-cs)
The voice over in the video is none other than everyone's favorite time machine using Lead Designer, Dustin Browder.
Don’t be fooled by this picture. This Phase Prism isn’t dropping off units. Something else is happening here…something that will be revealed later. Gwa-ha-ha-ha! :D
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: Ceric on April 04, 2008, 09:08:47 AM
Earlier you mentioned that the Reaper may be going out but I think they should make it an upgrade for Marines. Up all the stats a little and then make it so that its a Marine upgrade program. You build a Marine, use it, and once you are at in the tech tree you can "build" Reapers you just take the Marine back to an enhanced barracks and he be upgraded for a a cost. Make it so there isn't any way to directly train them. It be like when the Zerg have something evolve into something different only Terran style.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: Kairon on April 04, 2008, 11:49:54 PM
I... completely suck at StarCraft.
God I can't wait for SC2 though. The editor will be SO AWESOME, and we're gonn have some absolutely AMAZING Use Map Settings maps. Oh god oh god oh god.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: Smoke39 on April 05, 2008, 03:56:14 PM
I once wanted to make a map with islands for bases with a volcano in the middle that would occasionaly erupt, sending a ring of fire across the map, but it would have required way too many zones or whatever they were called for spawning and immediately destroying units (to create explosions) in progressively larger rings.
Maybe I could scale it down to have it just effect the island that the volcano was on. And put tons of resources there to give incentive to risk being destroyed by the eruptions. :D
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on April 05, 2008, 04:11:18 PM
I've always been awful at Blizzard's RTS games. I can handle Dawn of War or Age of Empires on Expert, but for some reason, Star/WarCraft discombobulates me on Medium.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 06, 2008, 01:47:28 AM
Maybe it's the retarded interface.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: bosshogx on April 06, 2008, 07:42:06 AM
No, seriously, what's wrong with the interface? It's just a mouse and keyboard for control. Hovering the mouse over icons will tell you what is required to build a unit/building. The hotkeys are labeled with a colored letter in the unit/buildings name. Is it that you are more accustom to more modern RTS interfaces? If so, what makes them easier to understand?
I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking you, I've just never played many other RTS's and I don't have a lot of reference for comparison. I've played Dune and C&C, but I never liked the bar on the right side set up. I also briefly played the Star Wars RTS that was supposed to be running on the AOE engine, but it wasn't mine and I had to return it. Anyways, hook a brother up with some insight!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 06, 2008, 08:23:25 AM
I'm not talking about ease of understanding, I'm talking about ease of use. 12 unit selection limits, inadequate order queueing, etc. To get stuff done in Starcraft you need a much larger number of actions than in any other game. Use three ghosts to lock three targets down? Gotta select one, select the ability, click the target, repeat. In World in Conflict you'd just select them, hold E and click the targets one after the other. IIRC you cannot queue researches, in C&C generals you could queue two riflemen and then the capture ability, in Starcraft you'd have to go back after the units are complete to select the upgrade. The resource collection has a lot of moving from and to the res points so optimizing the routes is critical and can greatly increase your res output.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: bosshogx on April 06, 2008, 12:08:13 PM
I'm not talking about ease of understanding, I'm talking about ease of use. 12 unit selection limits, inadequate order queueing, etc. To get stuff done in Starcraft you need a much larger number of actions than in any other game. Use three ghosts to lock three targets down? Gotta select one, select the ability, click the target, repeat. In World in Conflict you'd just select them, hold E and click the targets one after the other. IIRC you cannot queue researches, in C&C generals you could queue two riflemen and then the capture ability, in Starcraft you'd have to go back after the units are complete to select the upgrade. The resource collection has a lot of moving from and to the res points so optimizing the routes is critical and can greatly increase your res output.
Oh ok, got ya. Most, if not all of those things you mentioned will be updated in SC2. Don't forget that SC1 was made 10 years ago and the RTS genre has evolved a lot since then. The interface is easy for me to understand and use only because I've been playing it for so long. I'm accustomed to moving manually moving peons to minerals or commanding groups of 12 units. For someone who started on a more up-to-date interface, Starcraft will seem what it is....dated. Nothing to be done about that I suppose. Ten years from now people will be having the same discussion about RTS interfaces being so much easier than the set ups from "back in 2008".
But screw all that, let's play some Starcraft! :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 07, 2008, 07:34:25 AM
The RTS genre already had evolved a lot before Starcraft came out, Total Annihilation had a pretty much unrestricted interface (infinite queues for all commands, for example). IIRC TA predates SC.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Unlimited Power!!
Post by: bosshogx on April 07, 2008, 09:09:11 AM
The Zerg Baneling is the newest evolution of the regular Zergling. The Baneling is basically the replacement for the old Infested Terran unit in Starcraft 1. The Baneling only has one attack: a high damage splash damage suicidal ram. Sure, you might lose the unit, but the fear factor alone is enough to make your enemy think twice before engaging a Zerg swarm. Oh, did I mention that they can burrow underground?
Baneling in action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d5NoF3Oc4I)
Even the big, bad, Protoss have much to fear from the Baneling.
Baneling or not, the Zerg simply won’t make it up this heavily defended ramp.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - The bane of my existance
Post by: Sundoulos on April 07, 2008, 12:42:08 PM
Cool. I'm glad they've added this ability to the Zerglings. I liked using infested Terrans, but I never got to use them unless I was in a really long match or near the endgame. Infesting the Terran command center just took a lot of work because you could only do it when it was almost dead; IMO, it was often more trouble than it was worth. That's probably just because I wasn't good enough to make good use of the strat...
I was watching an old Starcraft match during lunch on Friday; it's a hobby...a weird one, but a hobby nevertheless. Anyway, this one was between sAviOr and FirebatHero, the commentator had mentioned that infesting the Terran Command Center was almost never used strategically...apparently, it is mostly used as a sort of an insult. :)
Of course...then, in the match, Savior, the Zerg player, proceeds to infest the command center 4 or 5 times.
The video is here...the comment I refered to is around 33:35: Starcraft MSL match (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uma880-zd5I)
Part two is here: Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgk1m-PHIEM&feature=related)
BTW, It's a long match, which is very unusual at that level of play.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - The bane of my existance
Post by: bosshogx on April 07, 2008, 09:20:28 PM
BTW, It's a long match, which is very unusual at that level of play.
Wow, ain't that the truth. A game over an hour long is quite unusual, but always fun to watch. The announcer was grating on my nerves at the end of the match with his anti-terran rhetoric. Using Science Vessel w/irradiate is not cheap. It can be countered, it's just difficult when your enemy gets that many of them. One plague on a group of Vessels can spell their doom by just one Mutalisk. PHEW!
I wish I could watch Starcraft replays during lunch.... :(
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - The bane of my existance
Post by: Sundoulos on April 08, 2008, 12:22:41 AM
Yes, I didn't really understand his complaint, either, because the Zerg have several rechargeable abilities as well. sAviOr was using the Defilers' Plague ability to great effect. In some of his other commentaries, Klazart indicates that he is a Zerg player, so he's probably showing a bit of natural bias. In the commentaries for the other 4 games in the series, it's very clear who Klazart is pulling for; I haven't heard him do that in other matches.
I have to admit that after all of that time during the first game, it was anti-climatic for it to end the way it did, but it was still a valid victory. It's too bad the overall winner of the series showed a lack of class with his stupid dance at the end (of game 5).
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - The bane of my existance
Post by: bosshogx on April 08, 2008, 08:16:32 AM
The Terran Command Center is the heart and soul of the Terran economy. All of the resources collected have to be brought here. The Command Center is the only building that can create SCV’s, the standard worker unit of the Terran. In addition, like most Terran buildings, the Command Center can lift off the ground and fly to new locations. This time though, the Command Center can load up five SCV’s to allow the Terran to start collecting money as soon as it lands.
Meet the Terrans. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2h280gafAE)
Here is the Command Center landing and deploying it’s SCV units. As a bonus, this clip shows off the Reactor and Tech Lab from a previous update and is hosted by the nearly world famous Time Traveling Dustin Browder!
Choices. Every person makes choices in their lives, some turn out to be good, others, not so good. Well, you can’t go wrong with the two add-on structures for the Terran Command Center. In the past, you had to choose between a Comscan sweeper or a Nuclear silo. 99 out of 100 times, the Comscan sweeper won out. Nukes just weren’t that effective in Starcraft. This time, the choice is more difficult.
The Surveillance Station is the replacement for the old Comscan sweeper. Much like the old Comscan sweeper, for a cost of 50 energy, a player can look at any part of the map to reveal what’s under the fog of war for around 5-7 seconds. In addition, the Surveillance Station will reveal any cloaked or burrowed units for the length of the scan. This add on is vital for intelligence gathering and to save your units from cloaked units in a pinch.
Sorry about the picture, it’s the best I could find.
Now that’s what I’m talking about! Upgrade your little ole’ Command Center to a killing machine. A twin set of cannons emerge from the top of the Command Center to protect it and it’s workers from invading forces. This should definitely help out expansions and island bases that are lacking in firepower.
With all these great add ons, how can I choose which one I want? Hold up there a second. Once you upgrade your Command Center it will forever lose it’s ability to fly. UGH! So now the question? Scanner, base protection, or flight w/transport? Hmmm….
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 09, 2008, 09:04:16 AM
So, are nuclear silos completely gone? That would make me one sad ghost.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: bosshogx on April 09, 2008, 10:57:54 AM
So, are nuclear silos completely gone? That would make me one sad ghost.
No, there still there, they just have their own building now.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: Ceric on April 09, 2008, 02:25:42 PM
Have they locked in that they won't be able to fly? If so then the Survelliance Station should see cloak and underground units in your base as well. I could see losing the expansions when you fly off but totally losing flying is totally different.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 09, 2008, 02:39:17 PM
I can't see anyone seriously giving up the survey station for the guns unless the guns are extraordinarily powerful, in which case Blizzard will nerf them and we'll be right back to no one using them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 09, 2008, 03:14:02 PM
I can't see anyone seriously giving up the survey station for the guns unless the guns are extraordinarily powerful, in which case Blizzard will nerf them and we'll be right back to no one using them.
I could see it being useful in early game situations where you might expect a rush, particularly before underground or cloaked units are used to attack; or if you have to build an expansion in a contested area and need the extra defensive power before you get firmly entrenched. That being said, I wonder if it is available as an early tech.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: Ceric on April 09, 2008, 03:18:23 PM
Personally I give them a knockback and make them pretty powerful but, they wouldn't have a huge range. Your giving up flight, most bases will only have 1 command center, and it can only concentrate on one set of targets at a time by the look of it. Making it less effective in a rush.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: bosshogx on April 09, 2008, 03:35:02 PM
Have they locked in that they won't be able to fly? If so then the Survelliance Station should see cloak and underground units in your base as well. I could see losing the expansions when you fly off but totally losing flying is totally different.
Nothing is locked in at this point, so almost everything I post in this thread could potentially change. As far as having the Survelliance Station detect cloaked/burrowed units in your base, it would have to be fairly limited in range. Maybe a circular range encompassing the Command Center. Honestly, I think that they will change it to make the CC fly again before it's all said and done.
I can't see anyone seriously giving up the survey station for the guns unless the guns are extraordinarily powerful, in which case Blizzard will nerf them and we'll be right back to no one using them.
Check out this video clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Vs4LbScr0) to see the Planetary Fortress in action. I would recommend starting at the 1:26 mark as to not spoil a future update. Watch how quickly the Planetary Fortress repels the group of 12 Reapers. As a bonus, the video shows off the D8 mine that the Reaper now has. The mines are good versus structures.
I could see it being useful in early game situations where you might expect a rush, particularly before underground or cloaked units are used to attack; or if you have to build an expansion in a contested area and need the extra defensive power before you get firmly entrenched. That being said, I wonder if it is available as an early tech.
Since there is no more academy, I would imagine the add ons come in to effect once you attach a Tech Lab on to your Barracks. Just guessing though. Having one of these on an expansion, especially on an island, would be greatly beneficial.
Personally I give them a knockback and make them pretty powerful but, they wouldn't have a huge range. Your giving up flight, most bases will only have 1 command center, and it can only concentrate on one set of targets at a time by the look of it. Making it less effective in a rush.
It can target two units at a time, check out the video above. In the video, the Planetary Fortress is killing them in pairs. Seeing as how the Reaper has 45 hp, we can assume it's doing at least that much damage to two different targets at a time. That's enough to kill most early rushing units, except Zealots. That's nothing to sneeze at and makes a tough decision for Terran players.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - I see you or I shoot you.
Post by: bosshogx on April 10, 2008, 08:08:12 AM
Vespine Gas is the second of two resources needed in the world of Starcraft. If you want to get further along in to your tech tree, Vespine Gas is an absolute must. Vespine Gas geysers are usually located near mineral patches. Unlike minerals, Vespine Gas geysers must have a structure built on it before it can be harvested.
Nothing to special here. The Terran SCV builds the Refinary and starts collecting gas when he’s done. The Protoss Probe warps in the Assimilator and can then continue to mine minerals. Finally, the Zerg Drone mutates itself in to the Extractor.
By the way, good rule of thumb is to have three workers collecting gas. Any less is inefficient and any more has workers waiting to get in to the collector, thus becoming inefficient too. The only time this would change is if the gas geyser is further away from the drop off point.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Contain your gas.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 11, 2008, 07:46:23 AM
Your titles on the images made me think "shut up, lady!" (http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Shut_Up%2C_Lady).
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Contain your gas.
Post by: bosshogx on April 11, 2008, 08:26:46 AM
The old saying in football is that defense wins championships. I don’t know how true that is, but it certainly has it’s merits in Starcraft 2. The big difference is knowing the difference between Attack types and Armor types. In the original Starcraft, the system was very complicated and extremely confusing. For example:
A Terran Vulture had a ground to ground attack that did 20 points of damage. This is more than three times the amount of damage that a Marine could do. So why are they not the weapon of choice against Protoss Dragoons? Why are Marines a better choice? The difference is in the Attack type. The Vulture’s attack type was explosive. That meant that it did full damage to small lightly armored units. Great against money gatherers and Marines/Zealots/Zerglings. That same explosive damage did 75% less to larger armored units. That means that the Vulture only does 5 points of damage to a Dragoon! Well, he actually does 20 points to his shields until they run out then 5 damage to the hit points and uh….never mind, it’s too confusing.
The system has been reworked and is a whole lot easier to understand now. Every unit is classified as having one of three types of armor: Light, Armored, or Building. Obviously, buildings are the only things that get the Building armor type, leaving Light and Armored for the units. Units can also be classified as being either Small, Medium, or Large. Some units get an armor bonus based on their size and power. You can upgrade the Attack and Armor levels up to three times for all of the units in the game.
I know your head is spinning by now, but let’s put it into some easy to understand terms, with our some of our favorite units.
The Terran Ghost is a small unit with Light armor. His starting armor value is 0. His starting attack value is 6. For each upgrade he gets a +1 to his armor or +1 to his attack. The Ghost gets a special bonus of +12 vs Light armored units.
The Protoss Zealot is a small unit with Light armor. His starting armor value is 1. His starting attack value is 8 and he attacks twice. For each upgrade he gets a +1 to his armor or +1 for each attack.
The Zerg Ultralisk is a large unit with Armored armor. His starting armor value is 1. His starting attack value is 20 and he can attack two different units at the same time. For each upgrade he gets a +1 to his armor or +3 for each attack. The Ultralisk gets a special bonus of +5 vs Buildings.
When the Ghost shoots at the Zealot, he will do 17 points of damage. 6 regular damage + 12 vs Light armor bonus - 1 for the Zealots armor value.
When the Zealot attacks the Ghost he does 16 points of damage. (8 for each attack – 0 for the Ghost armor) * 2 attacks.
Let’s say the Zealot has his armor and attack upgrade all three times:
The Ghost shoots the Zealot and does 14 points of damage. 6 regular damage + 12 vs Light armor - 4 for the Zealot armor value.
The Zealot attacks the Ghost and does 22 points of damage. (8 regular damage + 3 damage upgrade - 0 for the Ghost armor value) * 2 attacks.
What about the Ultralisk you ask. The Ultralisk walks up to the fighting Ghost and Zealot. Sensing the larger danger, the Ghost and Zealot attack it together. So:
The Ghost attacks the Ultralisk and does 5 points of damage. 6 regular - 1 for the Ultralisk armor value. There is no bonus because he is not Light armor type.
The Zealot attacks the Ultralisk and does 14 points of damage. (8 regular damage - 1 for the Ultralisk armor value) * 2 attacks.
The Ultralisk attacks the Ghost for 20 points of damage and the Zealot for 19 points of damage. (20 regular - 0 for the Ghost armor value and 20 regular - 1 for the Zealot armor value.) Notice that the Ultralisk does not do 40 to each because it attacks two different units and not two attacks on the same unit like the Zealot.
Whew!
Not to try and scramble your brains any more than I already have, it’s important to remember that units can also have the following modifiers: Fleshy, Mechanical, Robotic, Biological and Hover. These modifiers can have effect another units attacks and spells.
The above mentioned Ghost has a special ability called Snipe that does 50 points of damage, but can only target fleshy and biological units. The ability grants a bonus of +100 vs small units.
Sniping…hmmm. Yes, that reminds me of a puzzle:
A Ghost uses his Snipe attack on the Ultralisk (Biological) and the Zealot (Fleshy). How much damage will he do to each assuming they are without upgrades?
A group of 12 normal Zealots attack a fully upgraded Ultralisk? If they win the encounter, how many are left? Ultralisks have 600 hp and Zealots have 160 total hp.
Can a group of three ghosts kill a single Ultralisk before it kills them? Assume the Ghosts have enough energy to use their Snipe attack only once.
A group of 6 Zealots and 2 Ultralisks are having a race to see who can destroy a pair of buildings first. The buildings have 500 hp each and are next to each other. Who wins the race?
If a group of 20 fully upgraded Ghosts attack a normal Ultralisk, how many shots would it take to kill it and how many Ghosts would be alive afterwards? Assume that their attack rates are all the same so that every time the Ghosts fire the Ultralisk attacks. The Ghosts have no energy for Sniping.
Bonus points if you use a Layton quotes when answering. Also, the first person to get all of these answered correctly gets this:
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: bosshogx on April 11, 2008, 08:28:07 AM
Oh yeah, don't forget to vote for your favorite race. Terran for life!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: ShyGuy on April 11, 2008, 02:14:49 PM
I don't know much about no fancy StarCraft book learnin', but that cookie looks mighty tasty.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 11, 2008, 02:45:34 PM
Wouldn't we also need to know how often all those units attack to answer any of the questions? Not that I'd bother anyway.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: Ceric on April 11, 2008, 04:41:21 PM
Zealot Attacks 2 times for every 1 attack of the Ultralisk or Ghost. It's assumed later on that the attack rate of the Ultralisk and Ghost are the same.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on April 11, 2008, 06:24:38 PM
It would be cooler if the Zerg Extractor connected to the hive with a fleshy umbilicus.
Back to the Warhammer connection, is it true that former Warhammer guru Andy Chambers is working with Blizzard these days?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: bosshogx on April 12, 2008, 12:36:26 AM
Back to the Warhammer connection, is it true that former Warhammer guru Andy Chambers is working with Blizzard these days?
From Wikipedia:
Chambers is currently the Creative Director of Blizzard Entertainment, working on Starcraft II.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 12, 2008, 02:31:59 AM
Meh, calculations like that is why Starcraft is so annoying. I hope this time it's at least visible which unit is what kind of target, DoW told you what class a target has and what classes a weapon is good against in the tooltips.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: bosshogx on April 13, 2008, 10:48:35 AM
Meh, calculations like that is why Starcraft is so annoying. I hope this time it's at least visible which unit is what kind of target, DoW told you what class a target has and what classes a weapon is good against in the tooltips.
The calculations aren't actually necessary. The game can be enjoyed without knowing all of the numbers and technical jargon associated with it. The numbers game is really only for the players that are hard core into Starcraft. I will go into detail about the changes and improvements to user interface later this week.
You seem absolutely in love with Warhammer and I have a feeling I may not get to play any SC2 with you when it comes out. I know the feeling though. SC was my first RTS and I compared everything else to it. "It's just not SC enough for me." is what I'd always say after playing any other RTS. It's that narrow minded focus that made me miss out on a lot of good RTS titles and enhancements to the genre. I guess we just like a certain something and stick with it. Kinda like Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat back in the day.
On a side note, did you see the Warhammer 2 announcement? Here's the teaser trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Vq2p60A7I
No gameplay yet, but any news is good news, right? Maybe we'll get SC2 and Dow2 around the same time and can start an epic flame war thread! ;D
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on April 13, 2008, 05:54:02 PM
Thanks for the link to that DOW II video.
I gurgle with discontent at the thought of SC/DOW flame threads. It goes without saying that SC2 is going to sell a bazillion more copies than DOW II ever can, I just hope the DOW franchise sells more than well enough to keep it alive. I'm keeping a vigil for an online Star Wars: Battlefront-style game set in the 40K universe. If I'm ever able to sneak around as a Tyranid Lictor and behead Imperial Guardsmen, I'll die peacefully and phase into Nerdvana.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: Kairon on April 14, 2008, 02:17:54 AM
All DOW II needs is Tyrannids and its sales success is assured.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 14, 2008, 06:49:49 AM
You seem absolutely in love with Warhammer and I have a feeling I may not get to play any SC2 with you when it comes out. I know the feeling though. SC was my first RTS and I compared everything else to it. "It's just not SC enough for me." is what I'd always say after playing any other RTS. It's that narrow minded focus that made me miss out on a lot of good RTS titles and enhancements to the genre. I guess we just like a certain something and stick with it. Kinda like Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat back in the day.
I think Relic tries to be more inventive and makes much more interesting games as a result, the balancing isn't as great as Blizzard's but the tactical and strategic options you get are much greater.
I don't expect SC to PLAY like TA, I just expect it to CONTROL at least at the same standard. I spend way too much time fighting the interface in Starcraft, with a proper UI you don't need a high APM to do stuff.
And yeah, you'll probably never see me in SC2 MP, I'm just not too much into conservative game design. C&C3 was just bland and I'm not sure I'd like playing Starcraft++ either.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Do the math.
Post by: bosshogx on April 14, 2008, 08:26:51 AM
The Protoss Gateway is the building that is needed to create the powerful Protoss ground forces. Like all Protoss buildings, the building is warped in by a Probe as long as it’s within range of a pylon. The Gateway is used to make the following units:
(http://www.starcraft2.com.au/zealot.gif) The Zealot "My life for Aiur!"
(http://www.starcraft2.com.au/immortal.gif) The Immortal "We march to victory!"
(http://www.starcraft2.com.au/stalker.gif) The Stalker "From the shadows I come."
(http://www.starcraft2.com.au/darktemplar.gif) The Dark Templar "Adun Toridas."
(http://starcraftii.cz/wp-content/gallery/protss-units-high-templar/protoss_units_High_Templar_3.jpg) The High Templar "Khassar de Templari."
The Gateway also has one more trick up it’s sleeve which will be revealed tomorrow. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Gateways, not just for PC's anymore.
Post by: bosshogx on April 14, 2008, 10:59:58 AM
I gurgle with discontent at the thought of SC/DOW flame threads. It goes without saying that SC2 is going to sell a bazillion more copies than DOW II ever can, I just hope the DOW franchise sells more than well enough to keep it alive. I'm keeping a vigil for an online Star Wars: Battlefront-style game set in the 40K universe. If I'm ever able to sneak around as a Tyranid Lictor and behead Imperial Guardsmen, I'll die peacefully and phase into Nerdvana.
I actually LOLed at the Nerdvana reference. Nice. The DOW franchise has gotten great reviews and as long as they continue putting out quality expansions, I see no reason for the franchise to go away. I good Star Wars RTS would be great, but they haven't really nailed it quite yet. Don't know why either, maybe they just need a better developer to take the reins.
I think Relic tries to be more inventive and makes much more interesting games as a result, the balancing isn't as great as Blizzard's but the tactical and strategic options you get are much greater.
I don't expect SC to PLAY like TA, I just expect it to CONTROL at least at the same standard. I spend way too much time fighting the interface in Starcraft, with a proper UI you don't need a high APM to do stuff.
And yeah, you'll probably never see me in SC2 MP, I'm just not too much into conservative game design. C&C3 was just bland and I'm not sure I'd like playing Starcraft++ either.
Well, I can assure you that the UI has been updated quite a bit for SC2, but it will still play like SC1. I think the biggest problem with SC2 is SC1's legacy. If they vary it too much then no one will like it and go back to SC1. SC1 fans are probably some of the most fickle fans in gaming and trying to satisfy them is next to impossible. Actually, that sounds a lot like Nintendo fans come to think of it. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Gateways, not just for PC's anymore.
Post by: bosshogx on April 15, 2008, 08:10:18 AM
The Protoss Warpgate is the result of backwards engineering the technology of the Xel’Naga, the ancient race responsible for the creation of the Protoss and the Zerg. On command, any Gateway can transform itself into a Warpgate. The Warpgate can deploy any ground unit the Gateway can, but can deploy them to any location on the map that has pylon power. This means that you can quickly send units to the front lines, reinforce island expansions, or attack enemy bases from places they wouldn’t normally expect.
The Warpgate can only send one unit at a time and needs to go offline to cool down after warping in a unit. The duration of the cool down is equal to the time it would normally take to create the unit. This will not allow the Protoss to queue up more units like a normal Gateway can. Also, be careful not to lose the source of Pylon power when warping in units. If the power field is lost while a unit is warping in, the unit is killed and the money spent on it is lost. The Warpgate can only transport in new units and cannot warp existing units around the map.
Using a Warpgate requires more attention by the controlling player as each unit must be called in and placed on the map accordingly. Warpgates can be changed back into Gateways at any time the player wants.
Transforming a Gateway into a Warpgate. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYY4W5do2yI) As you can see, the entire process takes about ten seconds.
Warping in units. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICn1Qc3mYRY) Check out this video to see warping in action. The video starts with four Stalkers coming into battle. Later, at the 1:40 mark, you can see how the player uses Phase Prisms to set up energy fields which allow Zealots to join the action. I wouldn't recommend watching anymore unless you want spoilers!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: Ceric on April 15, 2008, 09:08:15 AM
Is it really that fast to make units?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: bosshogx on April 15, 2008, 09:31:32 AM
Probably not, I think they were just warping in that fast for the demo. The warp in time will be quick though because the warpgate has to cool down after making the unit. The cool down time is equal to the time it would take to normally make the unit. Kinda like how Hyper Beam hits hard but tires out the Pokemon for the turn after.
Pokemon references=win :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 15, 2008, 09:37:38 AM
Interesting, if the Warp Gate does bring them in that quickly. Is there an additional cost tradeoff for warping units, or is the cool down period the only drawback?
That really changes the dynamic of Protoss defense. The one thing that bothered me about the Protoss was the very slooooow build times of each unit. This would be great if you needed quick reinforcements.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: bosshogx on April 15, 2008, 11:29:51 AM
Interesting, if the Warp Gate does bring them in that quickly. Is there an additional cost tradeoff for warping units, or is the cool down period the only drawback?
That really changes the dynamic of Protoss defense. The one thing that bothered me about the Protoss was the very slooooow build times of each unit. This would be great if you needed quick reinforcements.
From everything I've read, the Warp Gate will bring the units to their warp in locations quickly with the only drawback being the cool down time. No extra cost involved. There is the extra time between the transformation between Gateway and Warp Gate and the manual locating of each warping unit to consider.
If you are a fast enough player or good at macro management then these drawbacks shouldn't matter too much to you. If you like to focus more on combat and queuing up units with rally points, then you might want to focus on Gateways instead. You could always change between Gateways and Warp Gates to suit your current needs as well.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: Ceric on April 15, 2008, 12:59:34 PM
So pretty much in the end it breaks down:
Gateways: Pay Unit build time up front, has queue, and units appear at Gateway Warpgate: Get Unit and then pay build time, No Queue, and unit may appear anywhere with power.
Thats about sums it up. Losing the Queue though. Thats interesting. I was happy when I found out how to Queue buildings.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 16, 2008, 02:28:18 AM
Manual placement for every unit is micro IMO. Not allowing queueing on the warpgate sounds like typical SC crippling.
If the warpgate needs the same time as the gateway for making units (even if it's a cooldown) that won't allow quick deployment of anything meaningful. If it could create multiple units and teleport the whole force when it's done that'd be something different but a one-by-one trickle of units sounds just like cannonfodder to me.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: bosshogx on April 16, 2008, 08:54:22 AM
Manual placement for every unit is micro IMO. Not allowing queueing on the warpgate sounds like typical SC crippling.
If the warpgate needs the same time as the gateway for making units (even if it's a cooldown) that won't allow quick deployment of anything meaningful. If it could create multiple units and teleport the whole force when it's done that'd be something different but a one-by-one trickle of units sounds just like cannonfodder to me.
Manual placement of units is definitely micro, but I don't see how that is crippling. Look at it this way:
Pros: -Warp in units anywhere power is accessible. Power can be provided by a Phase Prism or a sneaky Probe creating a hidden Pylon. -No extra cost -Free transportation of units without the need of a Dropship
Cons: -Cooldown time equal to creation time -Manual placement of units increases Micro requirements -Units could be stranded if no transportation back is researched -Units can be killed during warp in
The Pros definitely outweigh the Cons. Adding Micro to the building is a perfect way to balance the buildings strength. As a player, you have the option of warping in a bunch of units before you attack. It also doesn't take many Protoss units to overwhelm an enemy, especially in an open field situation. The element of surprise is what makes this ability incredible.
In my opinion, if you could queue up warping units it would be a broken ability. The warp in removes the rally point aspect by instantly placing your unit at a location as opposed to having them walk there. Imagine if you just attacked a enemy and wiped out a good portion of his defenses. You could easily warp in a group of units to finish them off before they had a chance to build up new units. Sure, you have to wait for the cool down, but the damage would be done. That's just one example of how flexible this ability makes the Protoss.
One of the best aspects of SC is the great balance between Mirco and Macro. If you lean to far in one direction or the other the game isn't the same anymore and becomes to one sided. Warcraft 3 is an example of too much focus on Micro where as Supreme Commander has too large a focus on Macro. Don't get me wrong, both games are very good at what they do, but the style just isn't for me. Macro players tend to make larger armies and send them into battle and focus on creating reinforcements to overwhelm their opponent. Micro players will focus on a smaller army and utilize spell casters to defeat an opponents army. The problem is that nobody, no matter how good they are, can be everywhere all the time. As a player you need to decide where to focus your attention and make quick decisions.
In summary, giving the Protoss army the ability to flank and surprise any location gives them a huge advantage. Even if your not using the ability, just the fact that you can do it will get inside your opponents head. The more things your opponent has to worry about, the less he will be focused on other matters at hand. Mind games are just as important, if not more than, hand speed and tech tree memorization.
Sorry for my long posts, I tend to type and ramble too much. :-[
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Two to beam to the surface. Energize.
Post by: bosshogx on April 16, 2008, 08:55:16 AM
The original Starcraft was released back on March 31st, 1998. While the game has been heralded as one of the best RTS titles of all time, the games user interface really shows its age. Over the last decade, the RTS interface has changed and evolved quite a bit. Starcraft 2 will integrate several changes to its interface in order to bring it up to more modern RTS titles. It won’t include every change imaginable, just the ones that won’t cause the fundamental gameplay to be affected. These changes will certainly help reduce the learning curve for newer players and allow seasoned fans to reduce the amount of things they need to worry about and focus more on the battling and economy. I’ve included what I know to be true via developer comments or through screenshots. This list may not include all of the changes to the final game.
I’ll be using the following screenshot to show some of the changes:
It’s quite a battle we have going on here, but more importantly, it shows off several improvements to the UI. The first thing to notice is that the player has a single SCV selected at the current time. A new feature is being shown here as the SCV is being ordered to build multiple structures. The SCV will complete the first structure and then immediately start the next one. You can tell that this is happening by the wire framed green structures in the screenshot. By ordering up several structures to be built in a certain order, it allows the player to concentrate on other tasks at hand, such as the enemy attack he’s facing. It looks as though the SCV will be making a total of four Missle Turrets, assuming it survives the attacking enemy army.
These are menu commands that can be accessed by pressing the appropriate F# key.
-The F9 key will bring up map objectives such as destroy all enemy buildings, go to X location on map, survive X minutes, ect. -The F10 key will bring up the menu screen to change the game speed, sound effects, and other options -The F11 key will bring up alliances. This will allow you to ally other players in skirmishes or unally them to backstab them. Not advised. -The F12 key gives you access to your races Tech Tree. This is extremely helpful for newer players that haven’t memorized what buildings are needed to make what.
Starting on the left we have the players current mineral amount, then their vespene gas amount, and finally their current and maximum unit counts. Looks like this player has too much money and not enough units.
In the lower left corner we have the mini map, shown here:
The mini map is used to see what’s going on in the battlefield even if your not focused on it. The mini map is an essential tool of any RTS and games can be won or lost depending on whether your paying attention to it or not. On the mini map, the player’s units are always represented as green, no matter what your actual unit colors wind up being. In this screen shot, the player is the red Terran, but shows up as green in the mini map. The enemy always shows up in the mini map in their actual color, in this case teal.
In addition, when your units fall under attack, the mini map will draw a red box to show you exactly where the attack is taking place. There will also be an audio clue, and upon hearing the warning, the player can press the spacebar to be taken to the last update. This is an important hotkey to remember.
To the right of the mini map are three symbols. The first one up top is a circle which I have no idea what it does. Sorry. The middle symbol can be used to turn the terrain off in the mini map to make it easier to distinguish enemy forces and money on the mini map. The final symbol is another way to assign alliances with other players.
The last thing to note is the SCV symbol located above and to the left of the mini map. This icon tells the player that he has a worker unit that is idle and not doing anything. This player has one unit idle as indicated by the 1 in the lower right corner. If the player clicks on this button, your screen will be immediately focused on that unit. If there are multiple units, the player can cycle through them by continually clicking on the button. If that number is large, you may have finished mining all the money at a location and now have a bunch of idle workers. Remember, idle workers mean no money is coming into the coffers. Make sure to keep your workers busy.
This box gives you a wealth of information about your selected unit. This picture shows us the SCV’s hit points, a wire frame of his model, his armor level, his attack level, his kill count, and his type modifiers.
-The hit points let you know how close the unit is away from death. -The wire frame is a visual indicator to see how damaged a unit is at a glance. The frame goes from green to yellow to red. If you see a bunch of red units, you may want to get them fixed up asap. This is extremely useful when you have multiple units selected in a group and don’t have the time to look at their individual hit points. -The armor value is the box on the left. Currently, the SCV has an armor level of 0. If you hover the mouse over this button, the armor type will appear. The armor types are light, armored, or building. -The weapon value is the box to the right of the armor level. If you hover your mouse over this button, the attack strength and modifiers will show up. Had this been a Ghost unit, the attack strength would have displayed as “6 + 12 vs light”. -The kill count shows how many enemy units this unit has slain. Not much strategic value, just kind of neat to look at. -The unit type modifiers, if any, are displayed along the bottom. This SCV is classified as Fleshy, Mechanical, and Hover. These can be both good and bad depending on the spells and modifiers of your other units and your enemies units. -Although it’s difficult to make out in the picture, there is a small number 1 in a box over the unit box to the left of the wire frame. That number can change from 0-9 and represents which group this unit is in. Say you have a group of 30 marines selected. By holding the Ctrl key, you can assign them as a group to any of the number keys. You can even assign the same unit to multiple groups. By tapping the number key that they are assigned to, you can recall the group or center on them at any time. This is essential for controlling large groups of units in the middle of a game. No unit game has been given for group size and as of this writing it is an unlimited selection.
Here we have the unit command window. Any and all commands that you can issue a unit can be found here. All units share the top row of commands which are (from left to right):
-Move without attacking -Move and attack -Stop moving -Patrol from one spot to another attacking enemy units that appear -Hold position and only attack enemy units within attack range
The next two rows are reserved for special techniques, spells, and abilities for each type of unit. In our example, the second row features the SCV’s ability to repair units and mine resources. On the bottom row, we see that the SCV can build basic and advanced structures.
That’s it for the user interface. There is a lot more to cover, but this is a good stopping point. I’ll update more UI changes in a future update.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: decoyman on April 16, 2008, 11:53:24 AM
Hey, about the protoss warp point thing... coud you set the warp point as a rally point for new units you're creating? If so, as one finished warping, another would finish creating and walk to the warp point to go to the new location. That would be kinda cool, and would eliminate some of the micromanaging that's bugging KDR so much.
(I kinda doubt this is possible, but still...)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 16, 2008, 01:46:38 PM
I'm saying the UI is crippling since there's no reason they can't implement queueing.
BTW, the wireframe is kinda clunky, a health bar would have the same effect...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: bosshogx on April 16, 2008, 02:56:39 PM
Hey, about the protoss warp point thing... coud you set the warp point as a rally point for new units you're creating? If so, as one finished warping, another would finish creating and walk to the warp point to go to the new location. That would be kinda cool, and would eliminate some of the micromanaging that's bugging KDR so much.
(I kinda doubt this is possible, but still...)
No, what you're describing wouldn't work with the cooldown time being involved. It's like your Warpgate shuts down after warping in a unit. I actually had a long explanation typed out, but then read that the developers are changing the cooldown time for Warpgates. Warpgates still will not have a queue ability, but in exchange will have shorter cooldown times in general. It's being tested for balance, but players with good micro can now outproduce players with macro skills that rely on queuing. Interesting balance there, I like it.
The Warpgate seems to be a good choice for quick strike attacks, surprise flanking moves, and players with real good micromanagement. Gateways would be the way to go if you prefer a more macro style of game. Both Gates have there own uses at different times during a game and the best players will find a way to utilize them together.
I'm saying the UI is crippling since there's no reason they can't implement queueing.
BTW, the wireframe is kinda clunky, a health bar would have the same effect...
They haven't implemented it since it appears to be unbalanced. Further testing may prove otherwise and they will add it to the game. We'll see.
As far as the wireframe is concerned, it's really there as a quick glance color indicator for the player when moving large groups of units. The wireframe has been carried over from SC1 and I have gotten used to it. It helps when I have a group of units that need to be repaired. I can select the group and choose the damaged ones to be repaired by my SCV's. This is helpful since units don't show any signs of damage no matter what their current hit point levels, unlike buildings which show visual effects to indicate damage.
There are still a few UI features that I haven't mentioned at this time. One of the new features is pressing the Alt key to bring up hit point/energy bars for all units and buildings on the screen. It's just a different way of getting information quickly on the fly, as opposed to looking at colored wire frames. I have a feeling I'll be using this quite a bit.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 17, 2008, 05:31:23 AM
I would guess that button with the circles on it next to the minimap will be a flare button, similar to the flare in AOE.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: bosshogx on April 17, 2008, 08:17:26 AM
The Terran Supply Depot is a building that allows the Terran army to increase in size as the game progresses. Each Supply Depot adds an additional eight points to the unit cap of the Terran army. In the original Starcraft, it was very common for Terran players to use Supply Depots to block off entrances to the base and use long-range fire to attack invading forces. In Starcraft 2, the Supply Depot can now be submerged underground to allow forces to pass over them and then recalled back into position to wall off enemy forces. Very cool.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 17, 2008, 11:21:31 AM
Health bars that shorten and get redder are better than icons on another part of the GUI IMO, you can more easily see where the damaged unit is.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 17, 2008, 12:05:34 PM
True, but it's easier to click on the icon sometimes than to try to click on a moving unit, especially in battle. I'm assuming Blizzard will take a page from their own Warcraft 3 playbook and let you cycle through the selected units' abilities. That way, you can select a bunch of machines and SCVs, tab to the SCVs, and queue up repair orders. I'd also like to see a return of Warcraft 3's autocasting. Just tell an SCV to always repair when it sees something damaged, then order it to patrol through your base or damaged units while you take care of something else.
Regarding the new supply depot design, are they affected in any way when they're submerged? For example, do they stop contributing to your unit cap or take less damage when attacked?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: bosshogx on April 17, 2008, 04:21:26 PM
Health bars that shorten and get redder are better than icons on another part of the GUI IMO, you can more easily see where the damaged unit is.
Actually you will be getting the best of both worlds. The health bars from Warcraft 3 will be in Starcraft 2. They will visual start at green and make there way to yellow and red. That should make everyone happy. I probably won't use the old wireframe that much unless I've got my units in a large clustered mass and have bars laying all over each other.
True, but it's easier to click on the icon sometimes than to try to click on a moving unit, especially in battle. I'm assuming Blizzard will take a page from their own Warcraft 3 playbook and let you cycle through the selected units' abilities. That way, you can select a bunch of machines and SCVs, tab to the SCVs, and queue up repair orders. I'd also like to see a return of Warcraft 3's autocasting. Just tell an SCV to always repair when it sees something damaged, then order it to patrol through your base or damaged units while you take care of something else.
Regarding the new supply depot design, are they affected in any way when they're submerged? For example, do they stop contributing to your unit cap or take less damage when attacked?
From what I've read SCV's do have auto-cast on the repair ability, which can be toggled between always on and manual control. Sounds like a good idea as I'd hate to have workers stop mining to repair something needing repair that isn't that important. Right now, the only auto-cast spells/abilities are repair and healing. They are going to be implementing smart casting, but that's another update for another time.
The Supply Depots will act the same whether they are above or below ground. They can be attacked normally when submerged and won't affect supply at all. Although, I would love it if I could launch Zerglings up in the air as they run over a submerged depot. :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 17, 2008, 05:12:19 PM
They are going to be implementing smart casting, but that's another update for another time.
Does that have anything to do with the demonstration of the Ghost's snipe ability I saw in one video where three Ghosts targeted three different Marines at the same time?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: bosshogx on April 17, 2008, 08:21:57 PM
Does that have anything to do with the demonstration of the Ghost's snipe ability I saw in one video where three Ghosts targeted three different Marines at the same time?
Hmmm....maybe. ;) And by maybe, I mean absolutely. Man, I suck at keeping secrets...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Anatomy of a screenshot.
Post by: bosshogx on April 18, 2008, 07:45:52 AM
The Zerg Spawning Pool is basically a pit filled with primordial ooze. It’s the first structure you need to make in order to create anything else in your tech tree. Upon its completion, you can make two units: the Zergling and the Queen. Starcraft 1 vets might be puzzled at the Queen being listed, but she has gone through an extreme overhaul since her last appearance. In addition to allowing you to create new buildings, you can enhance and upgrade your Zerglings here. You can make your Zerglings move faster, and later on in the game, you can upgrade their attack speed.
In Starcraft 1, a common Zerg strategy was to rush with Zerglings as soon as possible. This is typically called #pool rush. The lower the number, the earlier the rush would come. The lowest would be a 4 pool rush. The latest would be a 7-8 pool rush. The downside? If your opponent can defend against it, your economy will be way behind his. It’s a serious gamble and if it fails it usually means game over.
**Please note: Rushing is NOT cheap. It is a viable strategy which is high risk, high reward. People who complain about it shouldn't be playing RTS games seriously. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.**
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 18, 2008, 11:35:50 AM
One thing I never got about the Zerg was the fact that all their units are built at the same building, even though you have to have all these other unrelated buildings in order to do it. I mean, it's a spawning pool, but nothing spawns from it.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: bosshogx on April 18, 2008, 08:20:52 PM
One thing I never got about the Zerg was the fact that all their units are built at the same building, even though you have to have all these other unrelated buildings in order to do it. I mean, it's a spawning pool, but nothing spawns from it.
That's a good point. I never really thought about it that way.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: Djunknown on April 19, 2008, 10:09:18 PM
Quote
**Please note: Rushing is NOT cheap. It is a viable strategy which is high risk, high reward. People who complain about it shouldn't be playing RTS games seriously. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.**
I won many games by rushing, lost many games by being rushed, and lost a few more when they smelled they rush from a mile away (and won a few by countering those rushes)... :-\
It'll be interesting how they'll balance rushing this time around. Since its too much pie in the sky for the moment, I'll wait for the invite-only beta till I can get a solid understanding of SC 2 is all about. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 20, 2008, 12:11:54 PM
I'd assume autocast on repair would only be used when the SCV is idle.
Simultaneous sniping sounds like a wait command. In Spring it works like this: You queue a wait (doesn't have to be the first command, you can make the unit move and THEN wait), give further orders (e.g. one target for each arty) and when everything is in place you hit the wait button again which tells the units to continue with their queue. In this case you'd tell the ghosts to wait, select each individually, give it the order, select them all and tell them to go.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: Ceric on April 20, 2008, 09:05:15 PM
I'd assume autocast on repair would only be used when the SCV is idle.
Simultaneous sniping sounds like a wait command. In Spring it works like this: You queue a wait (doesn't have to be the first command, you can make the unit move and THEN wait), give further orders (e.g. one target for each arty) and when everything is in place you hit the wait button again which tells the units to continue with their queue. In this case you'd tell the ghosts to wait, select each individually, give it the order, select them all and tell them to go.
Thats pretty cool. I really do need to get into Spring.
You know in my circles I was the only one to use supply depots as walls. I definitely like you can put them down but I think it should slightly reduce the food output and give it some defense. Maybe become a repair platform or be able to put up turret type defence. Something similar even if its an upgrade.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Everyone out of the pool.
Post by: bosshogx on April 21, 2008, 08:23:32 AM
The Zerg Queen went and got herself a facelift for her Starcraft 2 appearance. No longer content to be one of the most underused units in the game, the Queen is now vital to the Zerg forces. The most obvious difference is that the Queen is no longer a flying unit. The Queen is now a ground unit that is used for base defense. The Zerg can only have one Queen at a time. The role of the Queen in Starcraft 2 is to build base defenses instead of sacrificing money gatherers. The Queen has the power of a standard Protoss Zealot. While that may be fairly strong, she has to be protected at all costs.
Although the storyline hasn’t been revealed, it’s not to far of a stretch to assume that Kerrigan has the Queen fulfilling the role of the Cerebrates. Of course, there is only one true Queen of the swarm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BqEWh0yHx0
Here’s a brief clip of the Queen laying waste to some Marines.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Get away from her you b*tch!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 21, 2008, 09:05:35 AM
I definitely like you can put them down but I think it should slightly reduce the food output
What happens if the food capacity falls below the usage? You can reduce resource outputs but not capacities.
You incur Upkeep.
Ugh...upkeep. No thank you. That mechanic and low unit caps turned me away from Warcraft 3.
In regular Starcraft it's possible to have more units than supply, but in that case, you can't create anymore units until you've built supply up again. It's a particularly bad for the Zerg when their opponents go Overlord hunting with Corsairs or Wraiths. After the Overlords get killed, the Zerg has to remake them. The opponent can camp up near the hatcheries and wait for the new Overlords to hatch. If the Zerg player hasn't set up any anti-air, then it's 'gg' for them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Get away from her you b*tch!
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on April 22, 2008, 12:28:14 AM
I no likes Kerrigan. Ruined Brood War for me.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Get away from her you b*tch!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 22, 2008, 02:37:37 AM
Ugh...upkeep. No thank you. That mechanic and low unit caps turned me away from Warcraft 3.
In regular Starcraft it's possible to have more units than supply, but in that case, you can't create anymore units until you've built supply up again. It's a particularly bad for the Zerg when their opponents go Overlord hunting with Corsairs or Wraiths. After the Overlords get killed, the Zerg has to remake them. The opponent can camp up near the hatcheries and wait for the new Overlords to hatch. If the Zerg player hasn't set up any anti-air, then it's 'gg' for them.
That wouldn't really work well with changing supply amounts, people would just set the farms to high supply mode while building units and low supply when not.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Get away from her you b*tch!
Post by: Kairon on April 22, 2008, 04:09:40 AM
The Queen has gone through some large changes as she is a far cry from what she used to be in Starcraft 1. The Queen now has a variety of base defense themed abilities. In addition to her new abilities, the Queen can grow along with the base. With each evolution, the Queen is granted more strength and new abilities.
Once the Zerg player has upgraded any Hatchery into a Lair, the Queen can evolve into a Lair Watcher. She gets an extra upgrade to her Hit Points and Energy. When the Zerg player upgrades his Lair into a Hive, the Lair Watcher can evolve into a Hive Matriarch. She will receive a substantial Hit Point upgrade and more energy. The Matriarch is the final evolution and will include all of her abilities.
The Queen has a list of abilities that include the following:
Regeneration: She can heal any Zerg unit
Shrieker: Places a small insect on any building. The insect will reveal any cloaked units within it’s range. This ability costs money and not energy.
Swarm Infestation: The Queen can temporarily turn any building into an attacking structure. This ability costs money and not energy.
Sunken Cluster: Allows the expansion of the Creep. This ability costs money and not energy.
Swarm Clutch: Creates a high damaging, but low Hit Point attacking structure. This ability costs money and not energy.
Deep Tunnel: Allows her to travel from any part of the Creep to any other Creep on the map. The Lair Watcher gets this ability.
Toxic Creep: Turns patches of the Creep into poison that will damage units that stay on it for too long. The Hive Matriarch gets this ability.
The Queen laying defensive structures. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STPx4M_yX_E)
The Queen starts laying eggs around the 3:00 minute mark. When the Zealots attack, watch how fast those structures fire on them. Remember, none of these abilities are final and may change in the future.
Watching the video to the very end will give you a sneak peak at tomorrows update. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - She got mad skillz!
Post by: Ceric on April 22, 2008, 09:26:18 AM
The Queen has gone through some large changes as she is a far cry from what she used to be in Starcraft 1. The Queen now has a variety of base defense themed abilities. In addition to her new abilities, the Queen can grow along with the base. With each evolution, the Queen is granted more strength and new abilities.
Once the Zerg player has upgraded any Hatchery into a Lair, the Queen can evolve into a Lair Watcher. She gets an extra upgrade to her Hit Points and Energy. When the Zerg player upgrades his Lair into a Hive, the Lair Watcher can evolve into a Hive Matriarch. She will receive a substantial Hit Point upgrade and more energy. The Matriarch is the final evolution and will include all of her abilities.
The Queen has a list of abilities that include the following:
Regeneration: She can heal any Zerg unit
Shrieker: Places a small insect on any building. The insect will reveal any cloaked units within it’s range. This ability costs money and not energy.
Swarm Infestation: The Queen can temporarily turn any building into an attacking structure. This ability costs money and not energy.
Sunken Cluster: Allows the expansion of the Creep. This ability costs money and not energy.
Swarm Clutch: Creates a high damaging, but low Hit Point attacking structure. This ability costs money and not energy.
Deep Tunnel: Allows her to travel from any part of the Creep to any other Creep on the map. The Lair Watcher gets this ability.
Toxic Creep: Turns patches of the Creep into poison that will damage units that stay on it for too long. The Hive Matriarch gets this ability.
The Queen laying defensive structures. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STPx4M_yX_E)
The Queen starts laying eggs around the 3:00 minute mark. When the Zealots attack, watch how fast those structures fire on them. Remember, none of these abilities are final and may change in the future.
Watching the video to the very end will give you a sneak peak at tomorrows update. ;)
Whats the point of Energy on the Queen if its all tied to Money?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - She got mad skillz!
Post by: KDR_11k on April 22, 2008, 11:18:51 AM
Healing, Deep Tunnel and Toxic Creep aren't tied to money.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - She got mad skillz!
Post by: bosshogx on April 22, 2008, 01:07:15 PM
Healing, Deep Tunnel and Toxic Creep aren't tied to money.
Yup. Right now the Queen gets healing at start, Tunnel at Watcher, and Toxic at Matriarch. It hasn't been confirmed whether or not the abilities have to be researched or if they are given to her automatically. Oh, I didn't mention it before, but if your Watcher/Matriarch dies, you can create another Queen but she will have to be evolved up to her higher forms again.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - She got mad skillz!
Post by: bosshogx on April 23, 2008, 08:24:41 AM
The Protoss Colossus is the only robotic unit in the Protoss army made for the specific use of war. All of the past robotic units were used for intel, transportation, or mineral gathering. The Colossus is a massive unit that can use it’s long legs to climb up and down terrain with ease. The Colossus is equipped with a laser battery that lays down a spray of fire that is devastating to large groups of weak units such as mass Zerglings or Marines. In addition, the Colossus has a large amount of hit points and can research an enhanced shield to increase it’s overall hit point total.
With all of these impressive abilities comes a few weaknesses to contend with. First, the Colossus is so massive that it can be hit by units that shoot at air. If you walk a Colossus by missle turrets, they will start unloading on it. To make things worse, the Colossus can not target air units. It’s a dedicated ground to ground only unit. A group of air to ground units will make short work of an undefended Colossus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjIxRL5cVqo
The above video shows enemy Zerglings getting wasted. But try that against Banelings and you get a different result. Finally, at the end you can see an example of the Colossus walking up and down a cliff.
One thing to consider from this screenshot is that the Terran player will not be able to counter-attack the high ground Colossus units. In Starcraft 2, enemy units attacking from higher ground do not give away their position. From the Terran players perspective, the laser blasts would be coming out of the fog. Scary.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Smoke39 on April 23, 2008, 02:18:27 PM
I don't get it. Ground units need an air attack to hit them, but air units need a ground attack to hit them? And banelings can hit them? Does that mean banelings' explosions can reach air units?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Ceric on April 23, 2008, 04:31:42 PM
I don't get it. Ground units need an air attack to hit them, but air units need a ground attack to hit them? And banelings can hit them? Does that mean banelings' explosions can reach air units?
Actually you are miss interpreting.
The Colossus can Hit: Ground Units
Can hit the Colossus: Air Units Ground Units
The Colossus is so tall that Anti-Air fire can hit them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Smoke39 on April 23, 2008, 05:04:18 PM
So basically anything can hit it.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 23, 2008, 05:26:39 PM
The Terran Siege Tank is without a doubt, the defining unit of the Terran army. Without the Siege Tank, the Zerg and Protoss would have little to fear from the Human race. The Siege Tank is absolutely devastating to any other ground unit in the game. The Siege Tank rolls around like another other unit, but once it enters ‘siege mode’, the Siege Tank becomes a destructive force of nature. Boasting the longest firing range of any unit in the game, the Siege Tank is the center piece of several Terran strategies. In addition to its long attack range, the Siege Tank’s attacks are all splash damage.
Due to the long range and high damage powers of the Siege Tank, the Terran is the easiest race to play defensively. The Siege Tank is also devastating when placed on a cliff over an expansion money location.
The only short comings of the Siege Tank are it’s inability to attack air units and the fact that it can’t shoot units that are close to it. The best way to deal with Siege Tanks is to rush a large number Zerglings or Zealots into the line or drop units from a shuttle right on top of them. Once on top of the Tanks, the other Tanks will continue to fire upon the attackers and end up destroying their own units with splash damage.
The Terran Siege Tank is without a doubt, the defining unit of the Terran army. Without the Siege Tank, the Zerg and Protoss would have little to fear from the Human race. The Siege Tank is absolutely devastating to any other ground unit in the game. The Siege Tank rolls around like another other unit, but once it enters ‘siege mode’, the Siege Tank becomes a destructive force of nature. Boasting the longest firing range of any unit in the game, the Siege Tank is the center piece of several Terran strategies. In addition to its long attack range, the Siege Tank’s attacks are all splash damage.
Due to the long range and high damage powers of the Siege Tank, the Terran is the easiest race to play defensively. The Siege Tank is also devastating when placed on a cliff over an expansion money location.
The only short comings of the Siege Tank are it’s inability to attack air units and the fact that it can’t shoot units that are close to it. The best way to deal with Siege Tanks is to rush a large number Zerglings or Zealots into the line or drop units from a shuttle right on top of them. Once on top of the Tanks, the other Tanks will continue to fire upon the attackers and end up destroying their own units with splash damage.
Pronouns are a nice thing. Are you allied with the Knights Who Say Ni?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Smoke39 on April 24, 2008, 11:55:20 AM
SC2 thread = KDR complains about stuff thread.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 24, 2008, 12:47:05 PM
The Protoss Colossus is the only robotic unit in the Protoss army made for the specific use of war. All of the past robotic units were used for intel, transportation, or mineral gathering.
Was the Reaver supposed to have had some non-warfare use then?
I don't like the new Siege Tank design much. It looks like an Octorock wearing lipstick.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: Sundoulos on April 24, 2008, 01:01:39 PM
Quote
Pronouns are a nice thing. Are you allied with the Knights Who Say Ni?
Was the Reaver supposed to have had some non-warfare use then?
The Reaver was originally a civilian transport unit. Once war broke out, the Reaver was refitted with the ability to attack from a distance. The Reaver has the second longest range of any ground unit next to the Siege Tank. The ammunition is made inside the Reaver and the rounds are small robotic drones called Scarabs. The Reaver is the slowest moving unit in the game which is a bit bizarre for a former transport unit. This is usually countered by loading a Reaver into a Shuttle and dropping it off for quick hit and run tactics.
Hmm...1,2,3,4,5,6. Darn it.
Errr....the Reaver has been compared to a caterpillar due to it's shape and movement style.
I don't like the new Siege Tank design much. It looks like an Octorock wearing lipstick.
The second picture is from a very old build and people complained that it looked like it was wearing lipstick. The first picture is how the tank currently looks with the split opening on the cannon.
He used pronouns to refer to Siege Tanks seven times.
Yeah, I may have went a bit overboard with that, sorry. I sometimes write these at work when I'm uploading programs and get distracted. I'll type a sentence here and there, but the excessive use of Siege Tank was unforgivable. I do so apologize. Just trying to unlock more achievements.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 24, 2008, 06:45:18 PM
The Reaver was originally a civilian transport unit. Once war broke out, the Reaver was refitted with the ability to attack from a distance.
I did not know that.
Quote
The Reaver is the slowest moving unit in the game which is a bit bizarre for a former transport unit.
Just another example of Blizzard not respecting their own lore!
Quote
The second picture is from a very old build and people complained that it looked like it was wearing lipstick. The first picture is how the tank currently looks with the split opening on the cannon.
I see. I thought that was just the difference between modes. The newer screenshot didn't load for me earlier. (Now it looks like an Octrorock before it puts its face on in the morning.)
He used pronouns to refer to Siege Tanks seven times.
Yeah, I may have went a bit overboard with that, sorry. I sometimes write these at work when I'm uploading programs and get distracted. I'll type a sentence here and there, but the excessive use of Siege Tank was unforgivable. I do so apologize. Just trying to unlock more achievements.
Hey, now. I was trying to defend you.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: bosshogx on April 24, 2008, 07:17:44 PM
In the last UI update, we discussed changes made to the on screen UI. This time I will be highlighting some of the gameplay changes being implemented into Starcraft 2 in order to catch it up to modern standards.
Some of the changes will include the following: -Smartcasting -Auto-mining -Multi-building selection -Unit formation -Expanded multiple commands
Smartcasting is the ability to have a single spell target various targets. In Starcraft 1 if you told a group of 12 Ghosts to use their “Lockdown” spell on an enemy, all 12 of them would fire on the same target, wasting 11 “Lockdowns”. In order to counter this, the player would select the group, target one enemy, then as the Ghosts make their way to the target, the player would have to de-select one unit from the group and target a different enemy unit and so on and so forth. As you can imagine, this required a lot of clicking and hand speed.
In Startcraft 2, Smartcasting will take this into account. To accomplish the same effect described above, the player will take his group of Ghosts, select Lockdown, then right click on an enemy unit. As they are moving to the target, the player only has to hold down the shift key and right click on any other units they want to perform the spell on.
This method will work for all spell casters in Starcraft 2 and should help close the gap between people with slower and faster hand speeds.
Starting at the :50 second mark, you can see mass Sniping using Smartcasting. At the end of the clip they show off calling down Drop Pods with Smartcasting. As you can see, you get the same effect with a lot less clicking.
Pulling something like this off in Starcraft 1 took incredible hand speed. Not so in Starcraft 2.
Auto-mining is a fairly simple addition, but one that is long overdue. When you click on any building, a player can select a rally point anywhere on the map. The rally point is where the new units will go when they appear from the building. If you set a rally point on a patch of minerals or gas refinery, the worker units will automatically start collecting as soon as they appear from the Command Center, Nexus, or Hatchery.
Multi-building selection will allow a player to assign multiple buildings to any number group he chooses. Say you’re playing the Protoss with 6 Gateways. You can click on each Gateway and tell it to produce a single Zealot. Now, you can click on the first Gateway, hold shift, and click on the rest of the Gateways. Once you have all 6 highlighted, press Ctrl and any number 1 thru 0. Let’s say we assigned our Gateways to number 5. Now all we have to do is press 5,Z and we will have 6 Zealots produced at the same time, assuming the funds are ready.
Use Multi-building selection in conjunction with Smartcasting and Gateways to speed up the reinforcing of the front lines with the Protoss.
Unit formations in Starcraft 1 were pretty bad. Pathing AI wasn’t the best either, especially on ramps. Starcraft 2 will allow the units to respond to group movements better and hopefully reduce all the clutter large moving armies tend to incur. Players will still have to issue up commands to their units, but at least they all won’t go walking off in a straight line this time around.
The pathfinding AI in Starcraft 1 would have made this attack very difficult to pull off without extremely good micro skills.
Customizable hotkeys are in discussion now. This would allow a player to remap the 15 keys on the far left side of the keyboard to whatever he wants them to be. Don’t like reaching over to “p” to create a probe? No problem, reassign it to “s” or “q” or whatever you like.
Finally, we have expanded multiple commands. Basically, this means a smarter use of the Shift and Ctrl keys. If you highlight any builder type unit, say a SCV, Probe, or Queen, you can give them a queue of commands to follow when setting up buildings.
Say you wanted to build 2 supply depots, a barracks, another supply depot, a factory, and end with another supply depot in that order. Using hotkeys, you would click on an SCV and press the following:
*the hotkeys above are “b” build basic structure, “s” for supply depot, “b” build basic structure, “b” for barracks, “v” build advance structure, “f” for factory, “b” build basic structure, “s” for supply depot*
The above sequence can be entered manually using the lower right unit commands, but it will just take more time. Memorizing hotkeys takes a while to get used to, but becomes second nature after a while. When learning hotkeys, you can always look at the lower right unit command window and hover your mouse over a unit picture. The name, cost, and time to produce the unit will appear in a balloon. The unit’s name will have one letter standing out in a different color. That is the unit’s default hotkey. This applies to buildings and spells as well.
Building a base like this will be much easier and efficient in Starcraft 2.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - It's like War of the Worlds.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 25, 2008, 08:24:22 AM
Why does the reaver have less range than the siegetank when you have to pay for every bullet?
Sounds like they are indeed updating the user interface though it seems strange that the build menu doesn't stay open after you queue a building. Does it allow load balancing over factories? In Spring you can assign multiple factories (or builders or what have you) to a Central Build AI (not much AI actually), you could assign e.g. 6 factories, queue one unit and get one unit (instead of six), queue five get five, etc. It allows you to queue larger armies without bothering to pick which factory should build what, you just say "I need 15 tanks" and it spreads that over the factories.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: bosshogx on April 25, 2008, 10:00:10 AM
Why does the reaver have less range than the siegetank when you have to pay for every bullet?
Sounds like they are indeed updating the user interface though it seems strange that the build menu doesn't stay open after you queue a building. Does it allow load balancing over factories? In Spring you can assign multiple factories (or builders or what have you) to a Central Build AI (not much AI actually), you could assign e.g. 6 factories, queue one unit and get one unit (instead of six), queue five get five, etc. It allows you to queue larger armies without bothering to pick which factory should build what, you just say "I need 15 tanks" and it spreads that over the factories.
The shot range of the Reaver is only a little bit shorter than a tank, but only if the tank is in siege mode. The damage per shot is almost double that of a tank and the splash effect is much larger. Moot point really though, the Reaver isn't coming back for Starcraft 2. It's been replaced by the Colossus.
Don't quote me on the operation of the building menu. It may very well stay open, I'm just going on what I've read.
For load balance, what you're saying is that you can place an order for a specific quantity of units and the AI will distribute it out over the factories. From what I've read this won't happen in SC2. If you use MBS and build a tank, the AI will try a single tank in each factory. If you are short of funds it will build as many as it can based on your resources.
I foresee people using two number keys for MBS production. Say I have 9 factories up and running in the middle of the game with an economy that can actually support them. If I'm creating a mix of 3 tanks/6 vultures, I would hotkey 3 factories to the 6 key and the other 6 factories to the 5 key. When I'm ready to produce units, I would tap the following: 5v6t Now I've queued up 6 vultures and 3 tanks in that order. 4 button presses for 9 units isn't that bad.
It's all really a question of macro vs micro and how much AI control is really needed. That's a tough question to answer. SC1's limited UI meant spending a lot more time focusing on macro, but micro is just as important to winning. SC2 will make the macro easier to handle, but at what point is it too much? Granted, I shouldn't have to press 18-20 keystrokes to get 9 units, but if I can accomplish the same thing in 2 keystrokes, isn't there something wrong with that? Is it just me? If the game becomes too micro intensive, it will become Warcraft 3 without upkeep. I don't know how I feel about that to be honest.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 25, 2008, 11:14:11 AM
It's all really a question of macro vs micro and how much AI control is really needed. That's a tough question to answer. SC1's limited UI meant spending a lot more time focusing on macro, but micro is just as important to winning. SC2 will make the macro easier to handle, but at what point is it too much? Granted, I shouldn't have to press 18-20 keystrokes to get 9 units, but if I can accomplish the same thing in 2 keystrokes, isn't there something wrong with that? Is it just me? If the game becomes too micro intensive, it will become Warcraft 3 without upkeep. I don't know how I feel about that to be honest.
The way I see it, it's a strategy game, not a clicking game. The UI should get out of the way and let me concentrate on winning the game through strategy. If that turns out not to be fun, then the game was never a good strategy game in the first place. It was just a clicking competition.
Regarding hotkeys, one thing I liked about the mostly forgettable Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds (essentially a Star Wars mod of Age of Empires 2) was the way hotkeys were assigned based on the location of the button on the grid. The lower right button would always map to the B key, no matter what that button actually did. This completely did away with any kind of mnemonic devices like "b is for build," but worked well as a way to cope with the large variety of units and buildings in the game without requiring much hand movement. It's not like most people still need those mnemonic devices after they've played the game for a while, and if you do forget a hotkey, you can tell which key you need with a quick glance at the button's location. There's no need to hover your pointer over it for a tooltip.
Even though I liked the setup, Blizzard's past games refused to allow you to reuse keys like that. I hope Starcraft 2 is different.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: Ceric on April 25, 2008, 08:19:00 PM
I really do need to get into spring...
Boo for the ditching of the Reaver. The Colossus doesn't seem to have the oomph of a Reaver.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: Ceric on April 26, 2008, 04:38:08 PM
KDR what do you do on the Spring Project? I noticed you on the Contributor thanks.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 27, 2008, 09:01:05 AM
Some smaller patches like weapon behaviours (weapons are a hardcoded mess ATM) or the occassional bugfix. The changes can have huge effects on what mods can do sometimes but code-wise it's rarely major.
I don't consider the number of button presses a micro-vs-macro thing, that's just interface efficiency and independent of the gameplay IMO (unless it's so crippling that working around the UI is a major part of the game...). Micro is IMO stuff like ordering commando units or other small number stuff around to do things the units wouldn't do by themselves, if it's just planting bombs or dodging artillery shells while hiding behind enemy buildings and destroying their economy with a peashooter. Not sure where macro really begins but I guess it's things like from where will you attack, what's the plan and which territories you will claim. Neither is about clicks or buttons IMO.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: Ceric on April 27, 2008, 09:17:29 AM
I always thought of micro being at the elite squad level. Where you say who to fight, how to move to dodge, etc. Macro I've always seen as getting some forces together and sending them off to attack. Sort of I don't care how you do it but I want that base.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now with 50% less clicking.
Post by: bosshogx on April 28, 2008, 10:35:59 AM
Sorry for the late update this morning, it's been a hassle at work. There will not be a traditional update today due to a few problems I've been running into. I was looking ahead at what information is available on SC2 and realized that I'm going to run out of things to post about after a month or so. I'm trying to avoid the last month or two of the Smash Bros updates where Sakurai was grasping for straws. Therefore, I will be updating new SC2 information every Tuesday and Thursday. On Mon/Wed/Fri, I'll try and find some fun and interesting things to post about SC1 or SC1 to SC2 comparisons. It will probably be a lot of videos of high end players and such. So, without further ado:
Lim Yo-Hwan or “Boxer” is probably the most recognized and respected Starcraft player in the world. When Boxer hit the scene he took the Terran race and made them something to be feared in a time when Protoss and Zerg were running rampant. His skill with the Terran earned him the nickname, “The Terran Emperor.”
Boxer is known for his outside the box thinking and his willingness to try something extremely risky in high pressure tournaments. His creativity and mind games have been brought “ooh” and “ahhs” from the crowds in attendance. His is one of the older players still playing at 28 years old, when most of the other players are in their late teens to early twenties. Many current Terran players say that he is the reason they started playing Terran in the first place.
Back in 2006, Boxer was entered the air force as part of South Korean law that every man must serve two years in the military. He has still been participating in Starcraft, but his time away from the game has shown that he isn’t up to par with current players.
Boxer’s annual yearly income has been estimated between $250,000 and $500,000 dollars between salary and endorsements. He has a fan club of over 600,000 members worldwide and he released a DVD compilation of some of the best games he ever played.
To truly put Boxer into perspective, he is quite simply the Michael Jordan of Starcraft. Not just for his gameplay, but in the way that he changed the way people played Starcraft. This will be quite obvious in later updates and this won’t be the last time you hear his name.
The Zerg Roach is the ultimate hybrid of the Zergling and the Hydralisk. It’s a ranged attacking unit with speed that can be built between the Zergling and the Hydra in the tech tree. The big defining ability of the Roach is that it has a super quick regeneration rate.
Normally Zerg heal 1 hp per second. The Roach will heal 15 hp per second up to their maximum hp of 90. This makes them devastating in 1v1 style fights. The only way to deal with it is to use focus fire and attack them one at a time. Immortals and Tanks will also be a good answer with their increased damage vs heavy armored units.
The hp regeneration rate may be adjusted for balancing purposes, although early reports have indicated that the regeneration rate isn’t causing any major problems thus far during testing. It’s been said that if a Protoss player has 5 Stalkers vs 5 Roaches, the Stalkers win the encounter as long as the Protoss player micros a little bit. This unit sounds as though it will be a nightmare for more macro oriented players.
Ironically no it cannot, as the nuke does 800 points of damage at it's center point. Perhaps they should consider changing the name to something else. One of the developers recently commented that the Protoss Immortal can survive a direct nuke blast and only receive 10 points of damage. The Immortal's hardened shield ability absorbs all damage over 10. Sick.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Eeeww! A Roach!
Post by: oohhboy on April 30, 2008, 07:20:56 AM
I guess nuking things from orbit isn't the way to be sure any more.
Personally, I am not interested in SC2 itself. I would love to see what maps get whipped up by the community. Crap, they would just make a copy of DotA. I hate WC3 sometime because of that map.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Eeeww! A Roach!
Post by: bosshogx on April 30, 2008, 08:40:04 AM
Back in 2002, the website SCLegacy.com (http://www.sclegacy.com//content/pimpest-plays-3/) created a top 10 list of the best or pimpest Starcraft plays of the year. The list became extremely popular with the Starcraft community and they have created a new list every year since. Some of the earlier plays from 2002 and 2003 didn’t were not recorded and uploaded to the internet, thus they could only be explained via pictures. Starting in 2004 they were able to get the plays recorded and put online in an easier format for people to view.
Some of the plays shown represent a single moment in a match that stands out as pimp. In a lot of cases the player performing the pimp play doesn’t even win the match. So, without further ado, I present the Pimp Plays of 2004:
Pimp Plays 2004 part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLOQV8dmP3w)
Pimp Plays 2004 part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv0fyRDW_i8)
Feel free to ask questions if you don't understand what happened in any of the plays and I'll explain it.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - That's pimp 04 edition.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 30, 2008, 11:48:47 AM
What exactly happened in part 1 with the Dark Templar blocking the ramp?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - That's pimp 04 edition.
Post by: bosshogx on April 30, 2008, 12:26:21 PM
What exactly happened in part 1 with the Dark Templar blocking the ramp?
What happened there was that both players were Protoss and both went with a dark templar rush. They ended up in a race to see who could wipe out the others base fastest. It ended up that neither one had any detection left and did not have a way of seeing the invisible dark templars. After killing each others units, both players ended up holding position on their respective ramps to keep the other players templars out of their base.
The one player highlighted in the video clumped his 3 remaining templars together right on his opponents ramp right next to the invisible templar he couldn't see or move past. He then had 2 of his templars merge together to form a dark archon. The dark archon unit is rather large and needs space to spawn. When this happens within your own units, they will spread out to give the unit room to form.
Because the remaining dark templar was between an invisible enemy and the archon, he had no where to move. In those cases, the AI automatically moves it to make room. This caused his templar to squeeze past the enemy unit when it shouldn't been able too. Once inside the opponents base, he finished off his last remaining pylon and won the game.
Had he not done that or had no extra templars to make that happen, neither player would have moved from his ramp and the game would end up being a draw.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - That's pimp 04 edition.
Post by: Kairon on April 30, 2008, 02:39:52 PM
I guess nuking things from orbit isn't the way to be sure any more.
Personally, I am not interested in SC2 itself. I would love to see what maps get whipped up by the community. Crap, they would just make a copy of DotA. I hate WC3 sometime because of that map.
Yeah. I practically gave 2+ years of my life to the WC3 World Editor, and was already captivated by the SC editor before that. I anticipate the the SC2 editor will be heaven. I can't wait to make a new "real life" map for it!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - That's pimp 04 edition.
Post by: bosshogx on April 30, 2008, 03:07:25 PM
I guess nuking things from orbit isn't the way to be sure any more.
Personally, I am not interested in SC2 itself. I would love to see what maps get whipped up by the community. Crap, they would just make a copy of DotA. I hate WC3 sometime because of that map.
Yeah. I practically gave 2+ years of my life to the WC3 World Editor, and was already captivated by the SC editor before that. I anticipate the the SC2 editor will be heaven. I can't wait to make a new "real life" map for it!
My roommate is in love with the editor as well. He's always trying to make maps that have bizarre or different play styles that need to be used in order to win. Most of the times his maps are unbalanced and hardly get played because of it. Although recently he made a map based on the movie 300.
Player one was Protoss and has an army of 300 fully upgraded Zealots, a few observers, and a Nexus (Sparta). Player two controls Xerxes's (lol, Zergxes) army which is comprised of about 1700 Zerg units. I'd say it's about 1200 Zerglings and the rest being a mix of hydras, ultralisks, lurkers, and defilers. In addition, the Zerg army gets a small group of Dark Templars to represent the "Immortals" from the movie. The map is layed out to have a opening about 15 units wide and represents Thermopylae. There is also a smaller back door route that the Zerg can use to flank the entrenched army. I came close to winning as the Protoss the first time we played, but lost significantly ever time afterwards.
It's a fun diversion and really focuses all your attention on micromanagement and hit and run tactics. It's amazing how many waves and waves of Zerglings can crash into a Zealot line and not budge them. :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - That's pimp 04 edition.
Post by: bosshogx on May 01, 2008, 08:21:30 AM
The Cybernetics Core allows the Protoss to create more powerful ground forces such as the Immortal and Stalker. This building is also required to make any of the more advanced building such as the Stargate, Templar Archives, and Robotics Bay. In addition, the Core also allows the Protoss to upgrade the attack and defensive values of all of their air units. Finally, this is the building needed to purchase the ability to transform Gateways to Warpgates.
(http://www.sc2armory.com/images/protoss/upgrades/air_armor.gif) Air armor can be upgraded 3 times. The upgrades are as follows:
Level 1: 150 minerals, 150 gas, 75 seconds research time. Level 2: 225 minerals, 225 gas, 90 seconds research time. Level 3: 300 minerals, 300 gas, 105 seconds research time.
(http://www.sc2armory.com/images/protoss/upgrades/air_weapons.gif) Air weapons can be upgraded 3 times. The upgrades are as follows:
Level 1: 100 minerals, 100 gas, 75 seconds research time. Level 2: 175 minerals, 175 gas, 90 seconds research time. Level 3: 250 minerals, 250 gas, 105 seconds research time.
(http://www.sc2armory.com/images/protoss/upgrades/warpgate.gif) Warpgate transformations is a one time purchase. The upgrades are as follows:
Warpgates: 150 minerals, 150 gas, 75 seconds research time.
What will you purchase first? Armor, weapons, warpgates? Decisions, decisions...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Penfold: Core, DM.
Post by: bosshogx on May 02, 2008, 08:53:22 AM
I was able to locate a movie containing the Pimp Plays from 2002 and 2003 the website SCLegacy.com (http://www.sclegacy.com//content/pimpest-plays-3/).
The 2002 part features a single marine killing five zerglings, five strategies showing off Boxer’s jedi like skills, a single drones journey to survive a single wraith attacks, and a prime example of why you shouldn’t get overconfident when rushing an opponent.
The 2003 part features a variety of ways to land buildings in an opponents base, a few players that show how using every spell in the game to their fullest advantage, a single firebat killing 30 zerglings, and Boxer nuke rushing a poor Protoss player.
As usual, I will fully explain anything happening in the videos. Also, the video compilations don’t actually include all of the plays for that year. If you’re interested in seeing the left out plays, click on the above link for descriptions with pictures.
So, without further ado, I present the Pimp Plays of 2002 and 2003:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDMSD_XnZFA
Enjoy!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Pimpin' ain't easy.
Post by: bosshogx on May 06, 2008, 08:28:39 AM
Is discussed earlier in this thread, Dustin Browder is the guy in charge of making SC2. He seems generally excited about bringing the hardcore and the not so hardcore fans a version of SC2 that captures the feel and excitement of the original. He has also said that he is trying not to just make SC1 in 3D. The game designers are paying a lot of attention to making the user interface jive with current RTS standards. This will include MBS, auto mining, smart casting, unlimited unit selection, ect.
Below are a set of links to an interview he conducted last year about SC2. This interview happened before the Zerg were released and some of the newer features were announced. Even if he doesn’t release a lot of new information, seeing a guy with this much passion about a project lifts my spirits for a good final product. Only time will tell.
Dustin Bowder interview part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRO3RDec2H8)
The Protoss Phoenix is the new replacement fighter for the antiquated Scouts and Corsairs. This new fighter is quick, agile, and excels in air to air combat versus smaller units. It’s not quite as effective against capital ships, due to it’s weak attack and low shields.
The Phoenix also has a researchable ability called overload. When used, the Phoenix gathers up energy around itself and unleashes it upon the six closest enemies around it doing a large amount of damage. The drawback is that the range isn’t that great, and worse yet, the ship loses all of it’s power for about five to six seconds rendering it unable to defend itself.
Smart enemies will micro their units away from the Phoenix when they see the overload energy charging and swarm back in to finish them off while it’s helpless.
Here's a video of the Phoenix in action. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLLTp2U0bFs)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Djunknown on October 11, 2008, 12:32:37 AM
Hell,'bout time this thread got bumped...
All I gotta say is mother lovin' KABOOM! (http://www.destructoid.com/starcraft-2-trilogy-announced-starcraft-fans-change-pants-simultaneously-107231.phtml)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Mashiro on October 11, 2008, 07:59:38 AM
Quite possibly the worst news ever for starcraft.
I don't give a rats ass about how many missions their are. If it isn't all 3 campaigns in one game the game is simply not complete.
So now we are stuck buying three games that should really be one.
I'm sorry I love blizzard but this is a terrible decision.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on October 13, 2008, 01:52:15 PM
I don't give a rats ass about how many missions their are. If it isn't all 3 campaigns in one game the game is simply not complete.
A. Cry moar B. That's one of the dumber things I've heard said about this news.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on October 13, 2008, 02:40:05 PM
It sounds pretty lame to me, too. If I'm going to play Starcraft 2 multiplayer, do I have to have all three games from the trilogy? Will I only be able to play as the Terrans if I only buy the Terran chapter? And if not, why in the world would I buy more than one? The single player game isn't that great. Sure, I always play through it, but I also always get sick of the terrible scenarios and use cheats just to see the story unfold and never play it again.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: bosshogx on October 13, 2008, 03:24:34 PM
Oh! My old thread returns!
Ok folks, calm down, calm down. From what I've read in interviews, the two campaigns should be considered expansions. Starcraft 2 will release with a full single player campaign that focuses on the Terran, but will have parts that have you playing as the Zerg and Protoss. About a year later (~2010) we'll get the first expansion which will focus on the Zerg campaign. Finally, a year after that (~2011) the last expansion will release which will focus on the Protoss campaign.
Now, it hasn't been officially confirmed as to whether or not these extra games will change multiplayer with new units or tweaks ala Brood Wars. If they do, then we should treat them as expansion paks. If they don't add anything to the game but single player missions, then you should consider them as episodic content ala Half-Life 2 or Sam & Max.
It's far too early to be getting our panties in a bunch over this news. Just relax and fry some Zerglings to relieve your stress. It works for me. :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Now a Trilogy!
Post by: bosshogx on October 13, 2008, 04:48:28 PM
I'm going to go ahead and update this thread with the rest of the changes that have happened since the thread got buried. This will be a long update, you've been warned!
Terran
Infantry:
Marines - The all purpose unit hasn't changed since it's initial showing. Still gets stim packs, health and range upgrades.
Marauders - This new unit is the Marines best friend. A bigger, stronger, slower infantry unit that shoots grenades. The grenades slow down all organic units (Zerglings, Zealots, Marines, etc) and does bonus damage to heavy units (Tanks, Immortals, Ultralisks). Not great by themselves, but perfect when used as a support unit to Marines.
Ghosts - Still unchanged. Can cloak (turn invisible), drop Nukes, Snipe targets, shoot EMP missles, and detect units with energy in the fog of war. Don't leave home without them.
Reaper - The jet pack wearing prisoners haven't changed much outside of getting bonus damage vs. small units. This extends their usefulness through out the end game.
Metal:
Hellion - Take the old Vulture and merge it with the Firebat and you get the Hellion. It's basically a fast moving 4 wheeler that shoots long streams of splash damaging fire. The Hellion is great for killing packed groups of enemies or raiding workers.
Viking - This unit can be upgraded to make it transform from a ground to ground attacking unit into a air to air attacking unit. The flexibility of this unit makes it like a Marine, not great at any one task, but not bad at anything either. All around useful.
Siege Tank - Nothing changed and honestly didn't need to. Great unit.
Thor - The huge lumbering Thor has been tweaked a lot since it was first shown and will probably continue to change before the game releases. It's primary purpose is against air units as it does extra damage to heavy air units. It also has a special ability to repair itself after it has been destroyed in the field. If the enemy doesn't finish off the wreckage, it will begin to repair itself.
Air Force:
Banshee - An air to ground bomber that can cloak. A definite must have support unit to any ground force.
Nighthawk - The new name for the Nomad. Basically a flying spell caster that can deploy spider mines, auto-turrets, and targeting drones. It's also the only unit that can detect invisible and burrowed units for the Terran.
Battlecruiser - The juggernaut of the Terran air force. High hit points, powerful weaponry, but slow and expensive. Can be equipped with either a single shot high damaging Yamamoto cannon or with a anti air cluster missle barrage. Choices...
Medivac Dropship - The Medic has now been fused with the dropship to create the Medivac Dropship. This unit can carry up to 8 supply worth of units in addition it will be able to heal infantry units within range. Still being tweaked to make it viable.
Zerg
Basic mutations:
Zerglings - Fast, cheap, and low hit points. Attack early and in swarms to drive your opponent nuts.
Banelings - A Zergling mutation. Banelings are rolling bombs that deal splash damage to any unit it runs in to. Devastating vs infantry and buildings.
Roach - A ground to ground ranged attacker that can quickly regenerate it's hit points. In order to kill them, a player must focus fire on them. Use them to absorb enemy fire so that Zerglings and Banelings can get close for the kill.
Advanced mutations:
Hydralisk - The Hydra has gotten better at killing air units and has gotten stronger all around. A staple of any balanced Zerg force.
Lurker - An evolved version of the Hydra. The Lurker loses it's ability to shoot air, but can attack while burrowed. In addition, it's attack hits as splash which allows it to shred groups of enemy infantry.
Mutalisk - The fast, weak, harasser of the Zerg air force returns unchanged. It's still really good at what it does, killing workers and stray infantry.
Corruptor - A air to air unit that shoots spores at it's enemies. Once the enemies hit points have been depleted, they become infested and will start shooting on their own units for a set period of time.
Super mutations:
Ultralisk - The mammoth Zerg ground unit. It can attack 4 units at a time with it's claws and has a huge amount of hit points. Sending these in with Zerglings and spell casters usually means the end for any opponent.
Swarm Guardian - A long range air to ground bomber that infects it's enemies with it's attack. Every hit on an enemy spawns little critters that will attack and harass enemies until they are killed or run out of energy.
Infestor - The Zerg spell caster that can move while burrowed. In addition to casting a variety of crippling spells, it can infest buildings. Once infected, the buildings will begin spouting out Infested Marines for a short while. Instant army!
Special mutations
Overseer - An upgraded Overlord. The Overseer can detect units, has increased vision while not moving, can heal Zerg units nearby, morph itself into a Nydus Worm to transport Zerg armies all over the map quickly, and create Changelings. Changelings are short lived spy units that assume the form of enemy units to allow you to sneak into a enemy base undetected.
Queen - The hive mother of the Zerg. She is primarily used as base defense and has spells that will heal or upgrade buildings around her. As you go up the tech tree, the Queen will mutate as well, gaining more hit points, magic, and spells. You can only have one Queen at a time.
Protoss
Ground units:
Zealot - Unchanged from it's original form. Hard hitting and harder to kill ground to ground attacker. Can be upgraded to have a "dash" move that helps them close in on their opponents.
Stalker - A unit that can teleport over short distances or up/down cliffs. Very useful for harassing workers or killing off retreating units.
Immortal - A powerful unit that has a special shield that reduces all heavy attacks against it to minimal damage. Great at destroying Siege Tanks or Ultralisks, but relatively helpless against smaller units like Marines and Zerglings. Can take a Nuclear Missle blast and walk away with only 10 damage done!
Nullifier - An early game support unit to the Protoss ground forces. Uses a force beam on opponents for little damage, but slows down their movement and attack speeds. Can cast spells such as Anti-Gravity (picks up a unit or building and holds them in the air) or Force Field (creates an barrier that units have to move around).
High Templar - Another spell caster. This unit can cast Hallucination and Psionic Storm. In addition, two Templars can merge themselves together and form a Archon.
Archon - High damage, high shields, splash damage, hits air and ground. What more do you need?
Dark Templar - Permanently cloaked units that do large amounts of damage to any ground units they encounter. One of the weakest ground units for the Protoss, so keep them away from detection units and buildings.
Collossus - A massive unit that can walk up and down cliffs easily. Hits enemy ground units with a splash attack laser. Can also be upgraded to have a larger shield to absorb more damage. The drawback? It can be hit by both air and ground units because of it's size.
Air units:
Pheonix - An air to air specialist that can overload it's systems to do massive damage to any units nearby. Afterwards, the ship goes offline and is helpless.
Phase Prism - One part transport, one part energy provider. Having a Phase Prism deploy will allow the Protoss access to any spells or buildings that require Pylon power. Use it in conjunction with Warp Gates for fast reinforcing of the front lines.
Void Ray - A flying unit that uses a focused laser beam that does increased damage the longer it's deployed. Great against strong units with high hit points and buildings. Vunerable to smaller units like Vikings, Phoenixs, and Mutalisks.
Carriers - The flying blimps return with little change. They deploy smaller swarming fighers to attack from a long range.
Observers - Small cloaked satellites that can detect other cloaked units. Great for spying all over the map for little risk.
Mothership - The biggest spell caster in the game. She can cast Time Bomb which nullifies all attacks against it for a short duration. She can also use her energy to recharge other spell casters around her. Finally, she can teleport units to her position on the map.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Djunknown on October 14, 2008, 12:20:43 AM
Still waiting for more details, such as price point, and firm release dates before I fly off the handle. ;)
Some smart guy (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/developer-narcissism-the-cause-of-the-starcraft-2-trilogy/) weighs in.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: bosshogx on October 14, 2008, 08:39:47 AM
Still waiting for more details, such as price point, and firm release dates before I fly off the handle. ;)
Some smart guy (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/developer-narcissism-the-cause-of-the-starcraft-2-trilogy/) weighs in.
That guy brings up a lot of good points. I agree that Blizzard may be getting too much of the "artist" syndrome and probably should scale it back a bit. The problem I'm incurring is that I'm helplessly addicted to the multiplayer. I can only hope that if they release these extra campaigns with multiplayer additions that they scale the price back to $20-$30. Doubtful, but a brother can hope, can't he?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Sundoulos on October 14, 2008, 12:33:45 PM
I only found out about the trilogy-expansions this a few minutes ago. I'm not flying off the handle, but my initial feeling is one of disappointment. Especially since I'll have to wait until 2011 to play the single player campaign of the Protoss. Since the original Starcraft has lived for a decade on it's multiplayer, the decision to place so much emphasis on the single player campaigns is a bit puzzling.
As others have said, this does raise a lot of questions about the nature of the multiplayer. In the first game, one purpose of the single player campaign was to train the player in the use of the different units for each race. It would seem that Zerg and Protoss players will have much more steep learning curves in multiplayer if a tutorial campaign is not available to them at the outset.
Will the multiplayer experiences be different for all three games? Will people who don't own all three versions still be able to play against one another in a basic version of multiplayer? I'm very interested in finding out the answer.
Quote
Some smart guy (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/developer-narcissism-the-cause-of-the-starcraft-2-trilogy/) weighs in.
It's interesting. On a later entry he makes the argument that Blizzard is setting us up for an eventual MMO announcement. I tend to agree.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on March 15, 2010, 09:46:42 PM
I just got my old StarCraft discs reinstalled and am about halfway through the Zerg campaign. I love StarCraft but I never got this far into the game before, for various reasons. I am beyond pumped for StarCraft II. I'm crossing my fingers for a beta key next month when the Mac beta comes out. I registered for the beta a long time ago, and I'm hoping the number of people who registered for the Mac beta isn't so huge that I don't have a chance.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ThePerm on March 15, 2010, 10:11:53 PM
lol immediate starcraft thread finding upon ign starcraft 2 hyping
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on March 16, 2010, 12:04:26 AM
Have they been hyping it? I'm not reading IGN lately. My interest is peaked due to recent Mac beta announcement news, which has shown up on a lot of sites.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 16, 2010, 01:19:05 AM
What does one have to do to obtain a beta key? Kill?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ThePerm on March 16, 2010, 03:30:40 AM
one of my friends bought the key off ebay for $350
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on March 20, 2010, 01:50:28 PM
People in the beta have started getting invites to hand out to friends. If anyone here is in the beta and has no friends, let me know...
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Louieturkey on March 24, 2010, 03:01:28 PM
People in the beta have started getting invites to hand out to friends. If anyone here is in the beta and has no friends, let me know...
Or if you do have friends but don't have any that want to play SCII with you, let me know. :)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on May 01, 2010, 07:43:12 PM
Anyone who wants in the beta, all you have to do is preorder the game from GameStop. They print a beta key on the receipt. The Mac beta client was also released a couple days ago, so I am downloading the beta as we speak. It's taking forever though... UGH.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: MoronSonOfBoron on May 01, 2010, 10:09:58 PM
Kairon has a preorder and Beta, and so will I before the end of this month. Our focus is going to be the Galaxy Editor :3
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on May 02, 2010, 01:31:20 PM
Anyone else in the beta, add me as a friend, gbuell [at] gmail.com (for Real ID) or Gront.gbuell (otherwise.)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ThePerm on May 07, 2010, 06:53:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7XiE_V0PZ8
I wish there was a class in starcraft in my university
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on May 12, 2010, 04:47:31 AM
So tempted to pre-order to get in the beta. Though I was burned by the Battle for middle earth 2 beta. But this is Blizzard.
I may just play a lot of the first game to brush up before it's release.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Sessha on May 12, 2010, 08:39:51 AM
This game lost a little of it's hype in Korea, A lot of my friends are playing a dragonball mmo beta I don't know if they are offering a beta here
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ThePerm on May 29, 2010, 08:27:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CatSUg0KyAM
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on May 29, 2010, 05:28:44 PM
Is that is real voice? I thought people only pretended to talk like that. Maybe he's sick or something?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: ThePerm on May 29, 2010, 07:10:48 PM
SUPER posted it on his facebook, im not sure if its made by him.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 22, 2010, 06:20:05 AM
It would be nice, but I remember looking forward to the Final Fantasy movie way back in the day. Didn't turn out too well... but I think Blizzard has a better handle on good story telling than Square did at the time.
I could probably swing the money for the game, but I'm fairly sure that neither of my dinosaur computers could handle it. I'll have to wait until I can upgrade.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 24, 2010, 07:20:41 AM
Well, they did plan to make it very friendly for low spec computers. So there is a chance of it working on them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 24, 2010, 11:03:40 AM
Unfortunately they didn't plan to make it very friendly for people that like to play it on a LAN, at home, with their family. I recall a time when all Blizzard games not only supported basic functionality like LAN play, but also came with Spawn Installs. However, I guess now that Activision owns them, they can do stupid stuff like strip out features, oversell the game as three different pieces, and force a constant connection to the "new and improved" Battle.net community.
It's too bad, it looks like it would have been a fun game.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 24, 2010, 03:42:58 PM
You mean no more LAN? Or are you just referring to the lack of Spawn installs. It would suck if the only way you could play local multiplayer is via online like you have to do with certain Wii games. :P
Maybe the last part of the game will give us those things we want if we complain loudly enough.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 24, 2010, 05:44:18 PM
You mean no more LAN? Or are you just referring to the lack of Spawn installs. It would suck if the only way you could play local multiplayer is via online like you have to do with certain Wii games. :P
Maybe the last part of the game will give us those things we want if we complain loudly enough.
LAN is not supported. That was confirmed a while back. There were rumors floating around that the Korean edition would support LAN, but I don't know how much substance is in them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 24, 2010, 07:50:02 PM
A PC game without LAN support?!? What's next, console games with no local multiplayer?...oh, wait :P:
I really hate this 'internet age' we are in because devs all think that online is all we need. Local play is how we spread the word to our friends. They play with us and get the game for ourselves.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 24, 2010, 08:35:47 PM
I like to support Blizzard because they've always supported the Mac, not just on the same day but on the same disc, but I've learned over the years that I just don't like real-time strategy.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 24, 2010, 09:37:38 PM
A PC game without LAN support?!? What's next, console games with no local multiplayer?...oh, wait :P:
I really hate this 'internet age' we are in because devs all think that online is all we need. Local play is how we spread the word to our friends. They play with us and get the game for ourselves.
Exactly. I fear I'll have to skip out on Diablo III for the same reason. It's no wonder people think that PC gaming is dying when developers are practically pushing away their customers with ridiculous DRM. :(
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: SixthAngel on July 25, 2010, 02:06:08 AM
I didn't realize they stripped LAN out of this game too. I never play LAN but it obviously brings people in, especially when your previous game became a freaking televised event in Korea. It just seems retarded.
I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I play the crap out of the single player but I don't really play much of the core RTS online. With Warcraft 3 I played tower wars, Footman wars and other games but maybe the RTS online part once. I'm going to wait and see if the single player is really worth it now that they've split it into three parts. I don't want to pay full price for a third of the game. With people here talking about a "new and improved battlenet" I think I should wait to see what kind of mods are made/allowed.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 25, 2010, 06:18:11 AM
I sure hope the 'new and improved battle net' doesn't turn into a free gimped version and a premium paid version.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 25, 2010, 04:40:12 PM
I didn't realize they stripped LAN out of this game too. I never play LAN but it obviously brings people in, especially when your previous game became a freaking televised event in Korea. It just seems retarded.
I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I play the crap out of the single player but I don't really play much of the core RTS online. With Warcraft 3 I played tower wars, Footman wars and other games but maybe the RTS online part once. I'm going to wait and see if the single player is really worth it now that they've split it into three parts. I don't want to pay full price for a third of the game. With people here talking about a "new and improved battlenet" I think I should wait to see what kind of mods are made/allowed.
Yes it is a 3rd of the game, but each campaign is about 30 missions, 3x the length of the original campaigns. The other 2 campaigns will be released for cheaper as expansions.
Midnight tonight it comes out, damn it me having to work tomorrow.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: SixthAngel on July 26, 2010, 12:33:08 AM
Yes it is a 3rd of the game, but each campaign is about 30 missions, 3x the length of the original campaigns. The other 2 campaigns will be released for cheaper as expansions.
I don't trust companies when they tell me how long a game is. I'll wait for some hands on from regular people. I'll believe the "expansions" will be cheaper when it actually happens. I figure that waiting is best for me now anyway. All three campaigns will be released in bundle for the price of a single game (or just slightly more) eventually, it happens with these things all the time. When I pick it up any mods will be into the stages where they aren't completely rigged/broken too.
How will they do 3 times the length? Are there 3 times as many units and upgrades? Half the fun of the campaign is that you get a steady stream of new units and upgrades to keep each level unique and interesting.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 26, 2010, 03:34:05 AM
I read somewhere that there may be units in the SP campaign that aren't in the MP. I think the firebat is an example.
People waiting for the BattleChest edition with all 3 chapters may be waiting a while. This is Blizzard remember.
I just got given the day off tomorrow, so guess what I will be doing.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 26, 2010, 04:23:46 AM
I'm paid tomorrow...but I really shouldn't spend money on this...OH THE TEMPTATION!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 26, 2010, 12:19:07 PM
People waiting for the BattleChest edition with all 3 chapters may be waiting a while. This is Blizzard remember.
I just got given the day off tomorrow, so guess what I will be doing.
I think that depends largely upon the release schedule for the next two installments. Chances are they'll come relatively quickly, as they're essentially just expansion packs. The original StarCraft is still sold in stores. I always liked WarCraft better myself, but I just can't see StarCraft II having the kind of staying power that the original did if Blizzard sticks to their guns on limited LAN play and forcing online connections for just about everything you do.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on July 26, 2010, 12:25:36 PM
I always liked WarCraft better myself, but I just can't see StarCraft II having the kind of staying power that the original did if Blizzard sticks to their guns on limited LAN play and forcing online connections for just about everything you do.
Woah woah...come again? Blizzard is doing a Command & Conquer 4/Assassin's Creed 2 with this game and forcing you to always have an online connection to play? I suddenly don't feel any regret in ignoring this game until the Battle Chest releases. :@
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2010, 01:18:09 PM
In a curious move, Activision Blizzard has confirmed that no reviewer will get the game early. So anybody waiting for a review will have to wait until at least a week after the game comes out (depending on how long the reviewer takes to play the game and write the review), maybe they are worried about reviewers leaking the game online? Usually publishers only do this if they think the game will get bad reviews (similar to how movie studios will usually only not do early screenings if they they think it will get bad reviews).
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Pale on July 26, 2010, 01:25:26 PM
I bet it's more of a logistical issue with their servers. It's probably really "expensive" to turn the servers on for just a small subset of users.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 26, 2010, 01:29:33 PM
Maybe, I am sure it won't matter anyways. Anybody who was planning to buy it at launch or shortly after launch wouldn't have change their minds based on reviews anyways, so no early reviews probably won't have any effect on sales numbers.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on July 26, 2010, 01:33:58 PM
The way I see it, StarCraft II is a review-proof game. It'll probably turn a profit just based on the sales from Korea alone, so why should Activision-Blizzard ship out review copies to reviewers? They won't gain any sales from having the game reviewed prior to launch, and they won't lose any sales from there being no reviews.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 26, 2010, 04:27:26 PM
I always liked WarCraft better myself, but I just can't see StarCraft II having the kind of staying power that the original did if Blizzard sticks to their guns on limited LAN play and forcing online connections for just about everything you do.
Woah woah...come again? Blizzard is doing a Command & Conquer 4/Assassin's Creed 2 with this game and forcing you to always have an online connection to play? I suddenly don't feel any regret in ignoring this game until the Battle Chest releases. :@
I don't know about forcing online to play. I haven't heard anything about that. Only for MP.
1 HR TO GO!!!!!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 26, 2010, 06:17:56 PM
INSTALLING NOW!!!!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 27, 2010, 04:45:13 AM
I passed a Wal-Mart on the way home and made a lot of tips tonight...just enough to buy the game in fact so I caved and bought it. Got a nifty poster too for free. I'm installing now.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2010, 05:07:34 AM
I got a T-Shirt free. Awesome.
And in single player, there are HEAPS of extra units to use. And for those bummed about being terran only, there are a couple of protoss missions in there. Haven't come across any Zerg yet though.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2010, 05:13:43 AM
HOLY!!! NOVA IS IN THIS GAME. The girl from the forgotten SC: Ghost. Nice tie in.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: kraken613 on July 27, 2010, 12:57:55 PM
Downloading the game from a Guest Pass.... Try it out before the buy.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on July 27, 2010, 01:12:08 PM
Downloading the game from a Guest Pass.... Try it out before the buy.
There's essentially a demo to this game? Where?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 27, 2010, 01:27:08 PM
Apparently when you buy the game you get two guest passes that others can use. Some people in message boards are giving away their codes for them.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: kraken613 on July 27, 2010, 02:34:35 PM
I had a Steam friend who gave me one. It's 7 hours of gameplay or 14 days whichever come first.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2010, 05:13:17 PM
There is a WoW one too.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2010, 05:23:57 PM
If anyone wants an easy win, my character name is Shorty, and my code is 331.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 27, 2010, 08:22:35 PM
I'm not usually one to beg for free stuff, but if anyone has an extra guest pass I'd greatly appreciate it. My experience with the RTS genre has been a pretty frustrating one so far (Warcraft III's dependence on heroes makes me ragequit, and Sins of a Solar Empire is...time consuming) so I'm really hesitant to throw down $60 on a game I probably won't put more than a few hours into. On the other hand, I've been watching a lot of replays and this game just seems really freaking cool and I really WANT to love it. I think seven hours is enough for me to gauge whether or not this game is something into which I want to invest a good portion of my free time.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 27, 2010, 11:07:26 PM
I'm not usually one to beg for free stuff, but if anyone has an extra guest pass I'd greatly appreciate it. My experience with the RTS genre has been a pretty frustrating one so far (Warcraft III's dependence on heroes makes me ragequit, and Sins of a Solar Empire is...time consuming) so I'm really hesitant to throw down $60 on a game I probably won't put more than a few hours into. On the other hand, I've been watching a lot of replays and this game just seems really freaking cool and I really WANT to love it. I think seven hours is enough for me to gauge whether or not this game is something into which I want to invest a good portion of my free time.
Check your PMs
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: kraken613 on July 28, 2010, 12:30:21 AM
Well I am not an RTS fan really and never have gotten to much into them. I have played just a tad and I find it a lot of fun. Simple controls that just work. I plan to play a bit more before I decide if I buy it or not.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 28, 2010, 02:03:48 AM
Whew. Just finished the single player. Very intriguing.
Now I probably have to wait another 3 years for part 2.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 28, 2010, 07:11:21 AM
I may have to go back and actually give the first one another try. I'd have to figure out where I put the discs first, though.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 28, 2010, 10:36:29 AM
Whew. Just finished the single player. Very intriguing.
Now I probably have to wait another 3 years for part 2.
Already? Tell me about it. Too short, just right, etc. Bear in mind the Terrans are my least favorite race.
If this takes more than a year its ridiculous, all the units and gameplay for each race has essentially been made.
I have a question for people who have the game. How do new players learn how to play the game and the different units? The single player only covers one race and the first game came out 12 years ago. If someone wants to use the zerg or protoss do they just have to get their asses kicked while they mess with the new units or is it full of tutorials?
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: vudu on July 28, 2010, 02:01:52 PM
Whew. Just finished the single player. Very intriguing.
Now I probably have to wait another 3 years for part 2.
Already? Tell me about it. Too short, just right, etc. Bear in mind the Terrans are my least favorite race.
If this takes more than a year its ridiculous, all the units and gameplay for each race has essentially been made.
I have a question for people who have the game. How do new players learn how to play the game and the different units? The single player only covers one race and the first game came out 12 years ago. If someone wants to use the zerg or protoss do they just have to get their asses kicked while they mess with the new units or is it full of tutorials?
Length is very good. Yes it only took me two days, but I conveniently had the days off. (No I didn't ask for them off :-P). There is plenty to do including an arcade. There are different difficulty settings for the campaign. I played on normal. For the protoss fans, there are about 4 or so protoss missions to do as well. You don't have the access to the full protoss armada, but it keeps it fresh.
I know the Zerg campaign shouldn't be too far away. Like you said the engine is done, the balancing is done. Who knows when they finished the single player. They probably moved straight on to making the next campaign. But this is Blizzard we are talking about.
You can play the AI to practice. As far as I know these results are not recorded. Again, (and unlike the original) there are about 7 or 8 difficulty settings to choose from.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: kraken613 on July 28, 2010, 05:38:21 PM
I am defiantly buying this now. I was on the fence but after the guest pass this is awesome.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 28, 2010, 08:01:29 PM
I may have to go back and actually give the first one another try. I'd have to figure out where I put the discs first, though.
I'd suggest putting it in your CD drive. That way it can spin up and be read by your computer.
:P :P :P
A setup for a snide comment about no-CD cracks and instead Morari makes a joke? That's gotta be worth a point.
Actually, I don't think that StarCraft requires a CD to play if you're using the newest patch. Installing is obviously a different issue, but Blizzard eventually drops the CD checks on their games through later patches. I commend them for that, at least. ;)
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 29, 2010, 04:16:43 AM
Ok. How do I spectate games? I can't find an option anywhere.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 29, 2010, 12:15:09 PM
I may have to go back and actually give the first one another try. I'd have to figure out where I put the discs first, though.
I'd suggest putting it in your CD drive. That way it can spin up and be read by your computer.
:P :P :P
A setup for a snide comment about no-CD cracks and instead Morari makes a joke? That's gotta be worth a point.
Actually, I don't think that StarCraft requires a CD to play if you're using the newest patch. Installing is obviously a different issue, but Blizzard eventually drops the CD checks on their games through later patches. I commend them for that, at least. ;)
This is true; with the current version, if you copy the contents of the discs to the install folder, you can play the game without the disc in the drive. That doesn't help me at the moment, though, as I don't have it installed on my current computer and don't remember where I put the discs.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 29, 2010, 06:20:56 PM
Well if nothing else, you can probably walk down to Wal-Mart and pick up the Battle Chest for $15.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on July 29, 2010, 07:49:40 PM
I've got it and I'm liking it so far. My computer BARELY runs it though, but to be honest I'm surprised it runs at all. Luckily I'm in the market for a new computer very soon. By the way, I don't give one flying **** about LAN play.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on July 29, 2010, 07:49:57 PM
My user name is Gront and my code is 620, by the way. Add me.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 29, 2010, 08:56:06 PM
Found my original Starcraft discs and am installing right now. Blizzard is really awesome; the game came out so long ago that it predates OS X, but, in addition to patching the game to run in OS X, they have an updated installer available on the web site so you can install it right into OS X, something that wouldn't be possible with just the discs.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 30, 2010, 02:05:53 AM
I need some help! But I doubt any of you will be able to :P
I want to learn more about this game, and while there are a lot of great SC2 guides online I am looking for something I can read when I go on an extended road trip later this summer where I won't have access to a computer. Apparently the guide that comes with the game is NOTHING like previous Blizzard guides and contains no useful information (not even a list of hotkeys!). The pdf is available online and it's literally 25 pages of story and EULA.
I don't really want to spend much on buying a guide, especially since the game will change so much through expansions/patches/tweaks that it will quickly become outdated. Plus there's the simple fact that I don't want to shell out another $20 on something that should have come with the game in the first place.
Fortunately I will have my Kindle when I go on this trip, so I was wondering if there were any online guides (preferably in pdf form or something else the kindle can read) that could help me out with the basics. I'd want stuff like race overviews, unit and building descriptions, helpful unit counters, and hotkeys. I've been looking myself but I couldn't find anything besides the Shokz online guide which is $40...=\
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 30, 2010, 10:21:38 AM
Guides have rarely ever come with games, the only one I can think of is EarthBound on SNES. Why would you expect one with this game? A list of hotkeys should be in the instruction booklet though, it's just plain laziness if it's not.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: KnowsNothing on July 30, 2010, 10:35:35 AM
Well I'm not really looking for a guide, I simply want a description of the races/buildings/units and stuff like that. Stuff that should be (and in the past always has been) included in the manual. The problem is the only way to get that kind of thing in hard copy is to buy a full guide...
...and no there is no list of hotkeys anywhere. It's inexcusably lazy (or greedy...) for a developer as highly regarded as Blizzard to omit these things. The $60 standard edition of this game comes with the disc in a cardboard sleeve, a 25 page EULA, two SC2 guest passes, and two WoW guest passes. By weight the damn thing is 50% advertising. How come when I bought WCIII I got a 150 page manual and a jewel case for my disc?
The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm already raging over SC2 and I haven't even played the multiplayer yet.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on July 30, 2010, 10:53:54 AM
Well I'm not really looking for a guide, I simply want a description of the races/buildings/units and stuff like that. Stuff that should be (and in the past always has been) included in the manual. The problem is the only way to get that kind of thing in hard copy is to buy a full guide...
...and no there is no list of hotkeys anywhere. It's inexcusably lazy (or greedy...) for a developer as highly regarded as Blizzard to omit these things. The $60 standard edition of this game comes with the disc in a cardboard sleeve, a 25 page EULA, two SC2 guest passes, and two WoW guest passes. By weight the damn thing is 50% advertising. How come when I bought WCIII I got a 150 page manual and a jewel case for my disc?
The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm already raging over SC2 and I haven't even played the multiplayer yet.
Blizzard didn't include a manual with this game, hard copy or otherwise? That's just lazy.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 30, 2010, 04:49:52 PM
There is a manual. Just not a very thorough one.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on July 30, 2010, 04:57:13 PM
Developers really should include a Unit/Build Tree for their strategy games if nothing else.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on July 30, 2010, 05:35:40 PM
This is the first RTS I've gotten that I recall does not have a fold-out unit/build/tech tree card.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shaymin on July 30, 2010, 07:26:52 PM
Since you need internet access to play the game online, maybe they figure you'll just go to GameFAQs? *shrug*
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on July 30, 2010, 07:50:43 PM
Since you need internet access to play the game online, maybe they figure you'll just go to GameFAQs? *shrug*
It's probably more likely that since they made this game for die-hard StarCraft nuts who would complain and whine if anything significant changed with the gameplay, they assumed the players would just know all the shortcut keys and everything already from their time playing StarCraft 1. It's lazy and sloppy, but it makes sense and it saves Activision money printing extra manual pages I guess.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 30, 2010, 07:56:15 PM
Considering they are charging the $10 tax HD games have, you think they could spend the $0.006 per page to include stuff like hotkeys. Adding in that and other important info would cost about $0.06 for every 10 pages (slightly more if they do color instead of black and white). Eve
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on July 31, 2010, 09:04:31 AM
All that stuff is included in the game itself, probably because they counted on a lot of people buying the digital download instead of a boxed copy.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Sundoulos on July 31, 2010, 02:43:49 PM
Yes, otherwise it wouldn't really make sense for them to make the digital download version $60 as well. I used to think those books were nice and all, but I found over the years that I rarely referenced them. The original Starcraft always did a good job of teaching you the basics of how to use each unit; I suspect that this game works the same way.
I think the price tag is a bit steep, too, but I suppose it's not technically overpriced if people are still willing to pay for it. I am still curious about what they'll do with the next two installments, and how much it will cost.
As it stands, I probably won't get to play until Christmas; as my wife and are planning to wait until then to get a newer computer.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 31, 2010, 04:58:55 PM
Does anyone remember how much the SC 1 cost compared to the BroodWar expansion? I imagine something similar will happen here. They will be expansions.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: SixthAngel on August 01, 2010, 12:25:30 AM
I hope for expansions but now I expect a Half Life episode thing to happen. They are very late with each expansion and by the third title stop pretending they are releasing it episodically. I read somewhere that they are making different multiplayer ladders for each game which makes me think they are going to take a long time instead of just making the single player missions I'm hoping for.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: KnowsNothing on August 13, 2010, 11:31:15 PM
Oh hey guys. Starcraft 2 is basically the most fun game that's ever made me want to give up gaming forever. So if you want to rape me with your god damn cannon rushes you can just add me to your friends list. Here's everything you need to know:
OccamsRazer (319) Bronze League (lol) US Region Protoss mainly...er, always.
Shorty- I lost the trial card thing but I swear when I find it I'll give you the key. I AM A MAN OF MY WORD DAMMIT.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Stratos on August 16, 2010, 05:24:50 AM
I love playing the tower defense games... I play online custom games more than the single player and real multiplayer combined. LOL
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on August 16, 2010, 11:24:43 AM
I played a bunch of games of Income Wars recently - lots of fun even though it lags my computer down to about 1 frame per second!
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Barrett on August 17, 2010, 07:07:44 AM
i was watching starcraft 2's trailer and assume that it was iron man . . . lol
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: broodwars on December 27, 2011, 03:48:55 AM
I might as well revive this old topic now that I have the game.
Well, after almost 6 years with my trusty old Inspiron 9300 Dell laptop, it was finally time to get a new one and I did on Christmas. As a fan of...most...of the original StarCraft, I finally picked up StarCraft 2 now that I have the PC specs to play it.
I'm not well-versed in interpreting PC specs (according to DxDiag), so how good is this machine for gaming, anyway? It's apparently better than what my old Alma Mater currently requires for Digital Media students, anyway:
Toshiba Satellite P775D Laptop
Processor: AMD A8-3500M APU with Radeon HD Graphics (4 CPUs), ~1.5 GHz Memory: 6144 MB RAM DirectX Version: DirectX 11 Display Device: AMD Radeon HD 6620G Approx. Total Memory: 3043 MB Screen Resolution: 1600 x 900 (this is the one aspect where my old laptop was superior, but it's apparently rare to see higher resolution laptop screens)
When I first started up the game, I left the game at its default settings and it frankly looked terrible. It was like looking at a PS2 game. Blizzard tends to be extremely conservative in their recommended settings, though, so I bumped everything up 1 level and it looks fairly decent now (though nowhere near as good as in footage like that seen on Gametrailers. I don't know if I can push the system up another level, since I'm not sure just how good these specs are.
As for the game itself, I'm 4 missions in and it's pretty fun so far. The new narrative and persistent upgrade systems are nice new additions, if extremely basic. The in-mission gameplay, though, kind of disappoints me. Whereas WarCraft III (a game I really enjoyed) took WarCraft 2 to a whole new level, this just feels like more or less the same game as the original StarCraft (but with larger unit counts). It's ok I guess, just not particularly impressive. I'm still very early, though.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Ceric on December 27, 2011, 11:36:17 AM
I enjoyed Warcraft III but it was no where near as good as Warcraft II. Looking back Warcraft II is Baby WoW. Having played through SC2 I really think they learned from the Mistakes of War3. Seperating the Mulitplayer from the Singleplayer is a great idea and allowed them to make some interesting mission. Being more of Starcraft isn't a bad thing with how long its been since we got a new single player campaign.
On the graphics, yeah the lower setting looking liker you playing StarCraft. The higher settings on the other hand look great. Fun factiod the game even supports 7.1 sound.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Caliban on December 27, 2011, 12:10:24 PM
I don't know if I can push the system up another level, since I'm not sure just how good these specs are.
Man, you've been playing console games too much. There's nothing wrong with that. You're just a bit rusty, or something.
Just crank it up already. I usually leave the anti-aliasing, and anisotropic filtering at a basic level because they usually chew into the framerate, and as long as it looks pretty and plays smoothly it's fine by me. I do have a 1920x1080 screen on my laptop though.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Ceric on December 27, 2011, 12:25:45 PM
I tend to Crank everything up myself and step down to where its acceptable. I've learned to live without shadows because they are normally the most taxing thing.
Though for some reason my box can't run SWTOR off the most basic settings. I really wish I had a bigger box.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: gbuell on December 27, 2011, 01:28:50 PM
this just feels like more or less the same game as the original StarCraft (but with larger unit counts).
I think the unit counts are the same as the original, actually.
I really liked StarCraft II a lot. I think the upgrades and occasional branching mission paths, which determine what units you get access to in the game, are really great additions.
Title: Re: The Starcraft mega thread - Rising from the ashes.
Post by: Morari on December 27, 2011, 08:31:27 PM
I've learned to live without shadows because they are normally the most taxing thing.
I don't know how you could live without that. I've been playing LA Noire the past few days and the lighting in that game is absolutely horrible looking. The shadows are all jaggy, whilst everything else looks overblown and flat. Thankfully I can still switch back over to Rage and Skyrim to look at something nice.
That said, I'd kill the anti-aliasing before anything else. It isn't really all that necessary with the huge resolutions we're all running nowadays. ;)
