Nintendo has no idea what it's doing for Online.... http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-wii-u/716198 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-wii-u/716198)
Quote from: GT@1:55
Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.
Just before that the Nintendo Rep said
Quote from: GT@1:40
We've always been about bringing gaming to the masses, but we've also tried to cater to the veteran gamers. We're disappointed that maybe not more of them didn't embrace the Wii as we had hoped. We're hoping that.. we listened to them and we're hoping that we really do make the console that they really do embrace and that they really want to play.
So why doesn't someone just go tell Nintendo that we want Valve to handle their online by bringing Steamworks to WiiU. There will not be a single person disappointed, neither 3rd party or gamer by that decision.
Can an NWR staff member PLEASE pass on the message. I know that E3 is already over and I hope that one of if not all of you had a chance to talk to someone important, but please reference this interview in an e-mail and pass our wishes along to them.
So maybe it's time us "Armchair CEO's" take a break from our busy schedules and pretend we know how to make it happen better.
So put on your thinking caps and gather your Board of Investors, Designers & Marketers and show us how Nintendo's Online Network should be run.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 10, 2011, 10:08:23 PM
This doesn't require an entire discussion, let alone a separate topic. You answered your own question.
So why doesn't someone just go tell Nintendo that we want Valve to handle their online by bringing Steamworks to WiiU. There will not be a single person disappointed, neither 3rd party or gamer by that decision.
This. This is it. Xbox Live is the gold standard for consoles. Steam is the gold standard for any online gaming platform and honestly, dominates Xbox Live and its mother in every way. End of discussion. Thank you for playing, sir. You've been great.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2011, 10:16:15 PM
That's what I thought at first, but then there are people like Ian that may have a very different opinion of what Nintendo should do.
And maybe people want to discuss what Nintendo should do in the case that Nintendo doesn't take the easy out and have Valve win the online game for them.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2011, 10:19:43 PM
If Ian's against using Steam, that's even more reason why they should be doing it.
Nintendo is not capable of doing better than Steam. If Valve were willing to handle it, Nintendo would be crazy not to take them up on it.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Oblivion on June 10, 2011, 10:32:52 PM
What makes Steam so good?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 10, 2011, 10:53:14 PM
It has pretty much all the features of Xbox Live, plus some other stuff, and it's free.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 10, 2011, 11:10:07 PM
That's what I thought at first, but then there are people like Ian that may have a very different opinion of what Nintendo should do.
THEIR OPINIONS DON'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY ARE WRONG IN THIS VERY SPECIFIC CASE.
Quote
And maybe people want to discuss what Nintendo should do in the case that Nintendo doesn't take the easy out and have Valve win the online game for them.
There's only one answer to that: Completely copy Steam feature for feature. Any other suggestion is describing something that is inferior to what is widely accepted as the best in the business. There's no point in that.
The only thing I would add is that a Nintendo online platform powered by Steam be linked to Club Nintendo, unless of course, Club Nintendo was rendered obsolete by having its function integrated into the platform.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Shaymin on June 10, 2011, 11:18:26 PM
Yeah, I'm on board. Invite Gabe over to money vault #43 and tell him to help himself.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: bustin98 on June 11, 2011, 12:34:14 AM
As long as there is cross-game chat and invite, instant messaging, a friendlist count of at least 200, and your downloads aren't tied to a single system, then it'll be good.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: sigrah0x7ba on June 11, 2011, 12:44:10 AM
So maybe it's time us "Armchair CEO's" take a break from our busy schedules and pretend we know how to make it happen better.
So put on your thinking caps and gather your Board of Investors, Designers & Marketers and show us how Nintendo's Online Network should be run.
The issue is that no one seems to be able to think beyond what MS has done, and that's a terrible thing, both in the lack of imagination and in what Microsoft's network actually is. Online for games and consoles right now is terrible. They spend all day and night trying to integrate so-called "social" elements when they are anything but. What's so social about leaving messages or posting pictures? Yes, there are games where gamers are actually interacting with one another but the interaction is usually so juvenial or pointless that, well, it's pointless. How have we not gotten past the point where online is almost exclusively used in games where we shoot one another and then scream into a headset about what a looser that guy I just wasted was? Online has simply been used as a replacement for local multi-player and LAN gaming. And I'm not ashamed to say that multi-player is a whole hell of a lot more fun with real people actually in the same room with you.
No one is trying to push online forward. All we're doing is going around in circles and adding more and more garbage to distract from the fact that since it's inception, online gaming hasn't evolved one iota.
Where are the co-op games? And I don't mean just shooting but even there co-op seems to be ignored. Where are the puzzle and adventure games where you actually have to work together to get through the game? And where the hell are the online games that can't be done any other way? The only type I can think of are MMORPGs and even those suck because everyone is just doing the same damn things.
I want new. I want fresh. I want original. I want online in games and on consoles to live up to it's own promise and not just turn into a new version of Facebook and Twitter. *shivers*
I'm sorry but I'm just sick of gamers lapping up a 3rd rate online system just because they can't get their heads around the idea that there might actually be something better, far better, out there.
And I'm beyond sick and tired of developers refusing to try something new with it just because they're lazy and can't seem to think for themselves.
Now then, are there any Armchair CEO's out there willing to deal with those problems???
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2011, 12:44:52 AM
The fact Nintendo is taking pointers from EA in setting up their online system is not very encouraging. Anyone who is familiar with EA's online scheming on the PS3/360 knows they like to use vouchers for online access, and then they force you to pay for every little piddly thing in games like Battlefield Bad Company 2. Finally, EA has a bad habit of completely severing online support for games that are 2-3 years old...
So yeah, I don't want EA's input to be used in the crafting of Nintendo's online system.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: bustin98 on June 11, 2011, 01:25:50 AM
I think there is a difference between an online network and the games that run on it.
The network provides the basis of communication, the bandwidth, the infrastructure.
Co-op possibilities is up to the developers to create seperate from the network. Its not like Facebook and Twitter is dependent on how the Internet is put together.
Portal 2 co-op is a puzzle game that you can't get through without a second player...
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Oblivion on June 11, 2011, 01:37:18 AM
Steam doesn't seem that great, actually. It may be free, but jesus, it's games are fraking expensive.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2011, 01:54:26 AM
I think there is a difference between an online network and the games that run on it.
I understand that, but the problem I have with EA is in their ethics, and that's why I don't want them to have a hand in any aspect of Nintendo's online system, because if they can think of any way they can further milk people and rip them off, they will pressure Nintendo for that to implemented, and Nintendo being Nintendo they may actually go along with it themselves.
A home is a very different thing from a bank, but you wouldn't want to put a home burglar in charge of security at your bank, right? So why would we want to put a company (EA) who likes to rip people off in Online Games to have a hand in developing the infrastructure for said online gaming?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: SixthAngel on June 11, 2011, 02:32:07 AM
I figure they are in talks with people and also seeing how some of the 3ds online stuff pans out. It's still a year and half away so I'm not really worried.
People keep talking about Steam but I don't really know if it would work. First of all wouldn't Valve want a cut from the games sold just as they do on steam currently? Secondly does Valve even have the staff to set up an online network for somebody else? It would involve taking people off their own network and would involve the legal troubles of favoring their own network much like a different company had with the Unreal engine.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2011, 06:03:50 AM
What SixthAngel said. It's one thing to say "get Valve to do it!" But it's another thing to actually try and figure out HOW to get Valve to do it. And then there's the thing that PC games, including steam, have a lot of PRIVATE servers that are paid for monthly by the PLAYERS. I think my younger bro always played TF2 on private servers that players were paying for out of their own pockets. It's a case of hardcore rich players supporting each other and some freeloaders with their own hardware, bandwidth, and/or money. I can't begin to fathom how that structure could be replicated on consoles.
I think one of the big things for Nintendo to nail is a DLC system. I think that third parties are continuing to look to DLC and "freemium" models in order to monetize against rising dev costs, and without the ability to support those business models Nintendo will lose games and features. Also, without a robust DLC system, gamers will feel that the Wii U version of the game will always end up lacking features other console will be getting in the future. The Wii U CANNOT claim full parity with the HD twins (if it wants to, that is) unless it cannot offer similarly robust DLC.
As for taking a permissive stance to EA or Activision providing their own separate networks, I think that's a plus. EA and Activision have both made major moves to establish their own online spaces for their families of games, and if indeed that's the way some 3rd parties are intending to go, Nintendo could gain some support or even exclusive features for Wii U games if they welcome it.
Of course, in addition to that, I think Nintendo needs its own one-friendcode good-quality online infrastructure that it uses for its own games, general Wii U network functionality, and for third parties who just want to piggyback on a "vanilla" solution.
Also, flash support on the browser (so people can play facebook games on the Tablet controller), and a wired ethernet port...
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2011, 07:50:44 AM
Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.
...
Hey this approach sounds familiar... Oh wait ITS THE GAMECUBE Answer. PSO being the only truly Online game confirmed.
Seriously terrible approach. As a developer I rather have something Deep I could tap into and build off of.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 11, 2011, 08:28:49 AM
Of course Valve doesn't have the staff to build an online platform for another company. They would just hire more staff. That's part of what Nintendo would be paying for. Additionally, Nintendo is paying for access to Valve's patents and code. Nintendo COULD hire all the people to do this themselves for scratch but WHY? Similarly, Nintendo could have hired a Research and Development team to make their own optical disc format. It's not like any of these things are a secret. The way these things work is available to anyone who wants to learn how. However, Nintendo runs the risk of violating patents and then there are lawsuits and all that other crap that any company would love to avoid. That's why Nintendo deals with Panasonic. That's why Nintendo should deal with Valve.
Valve has their own software and runs their own servers. They clearly know what they're doing and have years of experience. Nintendo is already late to the race but they would effectively be able to jump in the middle of the track instead of beginning from the starting line.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: MorbidGod on June 11, 2011, 10:09:01 AM
Nintendo shouldn't just copy Xbox Live, but improve upon it in every way. I dream of a day where a company like Nintendo creates a social network for it's platform (in this case, Wii U). This social network will let you do whatever you can on facebook -- share photo's and videos -- but put a gaming touch on it. Just did some amazing thing in the game? Wii U should allow u to "rewind" and then record the cool trick you just accomplished. Then share it with all your friends. It should also show on your status "Allen just defeated Ganon in Zelda HD!" Or anytime you accomplish something, it tells your friends.
Now this feature might be on Xbox Live all ready, however, I think it be cool if when your playing any game --whether it be multiplayer or not -- you should be able to see who is online playing that game, and talk to them. Even join in a group for that game -- where you can talk to multiple different ppl playing the same game.
I think that would be awesome, and should be something Nintendo can do easily. Hopefully they are listening to me right now!
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: nickmitch on June 11, 2011, 12:33:16 PM
Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.
...
Hey this approach sounds familiar... Oh wait ITS THE GAMECUBE Answer. PSO being the only truly Online game confirmed.
Seriously terrible approach. As a developer I rather have something Deep I could tap into and build off of.
Agreed. That's pretty much like having nothing. The blanket approach lets me not have separate IDs for each 3rd party. The 3DS was a step in the right direction, that would be two steps back.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2011, 12:44:29 PM
I think one of the big things for Nintendo to nail is a DLC system. I think that third parties are continuing to look to DLC and "freemium" models in order to monetize against rising dev costs, and without the ability to support those business models Nintendo will lose games and features. Also, without a robust DLC system, gamers will feel that the Wii U version of the game will always end up lacking features other console will be getting in the future. The Wii U CANNOT claim full parity with the HD twins (if it wants to, that is) unless it cannot offer similarly robust DLC.
That will not happen if there is only 8gb of onboard storage. Unless players want to have to keep uninstalling their **** in order to have room for whatever game they happen to be playing at the moment. Being able to expand the storage to 64gb via SD cards is not an answer either, because 64gb is not enough.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 11, 2011, 02:22:31 PM
It supports USB hard drives. If you're crazy, you could plug a 4 terabyte drive into the thing.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2011, 02:40:47 PM
I guess that's an option, but it requires an additional $100 or more purchase (unless you already have one), and its something that will have to dangle around separately from the console which would look ugly and take up additional space. But the main problem here is that developers are going to develop their stuff with that 8GB in mind, because they develop based on what the standard hardware configuration of consumers is. Some may have USB hard drives, but not everyone will, so they aren't likely to develop based on what a small segment may have. This means the Wii-U may miss out on a lot of stuff. Corners may be cut to keep the size down, so we may end up missing content that the other consoles have.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 11, 2011, 03:04:37 PM
But how do you know they'll only design with the base in mind? All PS3s have hard drives, so there's nothing to take from that. There are, however, lots of Xbox 360s out there without hard drives, and yet developers for that platform tend to assume people have hard drives. Add to that the fact that Ghost Recon Online is coming to Wii U exclusively as a digital download, likely to be a couple gigabytes in size, despite that limitation.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: ShyGuy on June 11, 2011, 03:23:51 PM
One thing that would be cool is if the Wii U could go into a power saving mode but then keep a feed going to the controller. On the controller would be your gaming friends list so you could be watching TV and look down at the controller and see that Kairon is online and he's playing We Cheer 3 and we have the option to join him.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 11, 2011, 03:35:10 PM
There's two things that need to be kept in mind about the 4gb Xbox 360
1) Its not the only model nor is it the default standard model.
2) Microsoft sells an official 250GB HDD add on for it, so it can be upgraded to 250GB through an official addon.
Nintendo could of course offer an official HDD add on, but I would prefer they just allow standard hdd support so we can add in our own. Even if the Wii U doesn't come with an internal HDD, the drive bay should be there and it should be easy to open the console up and slide a drive in. 2.5" drives are not huge, so allowing support for one wouldn't take up much space at all.
The thing about the 4gb 360 is its useless with certain 360 games, so even if you buy a 4gb xbox and think you're getting a better deal, you're not, because the additional storage space is necessary. 8gb is better than 4gb obviously, but its still not good enough.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Morari on June 11, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
The thing about the 4gb 360 is its useless with certain 360 games, so even if you buy a 4gb xbox and think you're getting a better deal, you're not, because the additional storage space is necessary. 8gb is better than 4gb obviously, but its still not good enough.
You're still getting a better deal though, because off brand hard drives for it can be had for around $40. That's still cheaper than having bought the 250GB model to begin with.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 11, 2011, 04:34:10 PM
I guess that's an option, but it requires an additional $100 or more purchase (unless you already have one), and its something that will have to dangle around separately from the console which would look ugly and take up additional space.
An external HDD does not cost $100 or more unless you want to spend that much. Here is 80GB - 1TB ranging from $30 - $100 http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=external+HDD&x=0&y=0
But the main problem here is that developers are going to develop their stuff with that 8GB in mind, because they develop based on what the standard hardware configuration of consumers is. Some may have USB hard drives, but not everyone will, so they aren't likely to develop based on what a small segment may have. This means the Wii-U may miss out on a lot of stuff. Corners may be cut to keep the size down, so we may end up missing content that the other consoles have.
8GB has not been made official. It's still just a rumor. That internal Flash could easily become 16GB-32GB before everything is finalized.
And even still, it could do like the 3DS and come with an 8GB SD card already installed. So devs could be planning on more memory than you think.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Shaymin on June 11, 2011, 04:39:15 PM
Nintendo could of course offer an official HDD add on, but I would prefer they just allow standard hdd support so we can add in our own.
If I had to put money on it, I'd say Nintendo would probably offer their own branded hard drive at a slight premium (think $50 for 250GB, which would have the added bonus of forcing Microsoft to drop their prices or look like dicks again). Didn't they release Nintendo-branded SD cards for the Wii, plus the Rock Band-branded ones?
Also, the 4GB may as well be the default model now for the 360. The 4GB + Kinect bundle is the only one I see on display at several Gamestop/EB Games and other electronic stores (Best Buy, Shop of the Future) I checked a couple of weeks back.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 11, 2011, 05:34:32 PM
One thing that would be cool is if the Wii U could go into a power saving mode but then keep a feed going to the controller. On the controller would be your gaming friends list so you could be watching TV and look down at the controller and see that Kairon is online and he's playing We Cheer 3 and we have the option to join him.
Yes. This. JOIN ME.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Razorkid on June 11, 2011, 07:02:38 PM
Steam doesn't seem that great, actually. It may be free, but jesus, it's games are fraking expensive.
Surely you jest :Q ! Steam offers daily sales on games and stupidly cheap prices mid-week and on the weekend! I would argue that if Nintendo offered a service analogous to Steam in every way, including the they advertise and promote sales for games, people would be throwing money at their WiiU all the time!
As long as there is cross-game chat and invite, instant messaging, a friendlist count of at least 200, and your downloads aren't tied to a single system, then it'll be good.
All things that Steam users currently enjoy and Nintendo needs to emulate. I don't know, but why is it that gaming fans always come up with no brainer goals that our favorite companies seem totally oblivious to? Who the hell over at Nintendo has not heard of Steam and it's dominance over the PC space as an online service?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Ceric on June 12, 2011, 10:33:42 AM
Steam doesn't seem that great, actually. It may be free, but jesus, it's games are fraking expensive.
Surely you jest :Q ! Steam offers daily sales on games and stupidly cheap prices mid-week and on the weekend! I would argue that if Nintendo offered a service analogous to Steam in every way, including the they advertise and promote sales for games, people would be throwing money at their WiiU all the time!
As long as there is cross-game chat and invite, instant messaging, a friendlist count of at least 200, and your downloads aren't tied to a single system, then it'll be good.
All things that Steam users currently enjoy and Nintendo needs to emulate. I don't know, but why is it that gaming fans always come up with no brainer goals that our favorite companies seem totally oblivious to? Who the hell over at Nintendo has not heard of Steam and it's dominance over the PC space as an online service?
One thing that would be cool is if the Wii U could go into a power saving mode but then keep a feed going to the controller. On the controller would be your gaming friends list so you could be watching TV and look down at the controller and see that Kairon is online and he's playing We Cheer 3 and we have the option to join him.
That be cool but I wouldn't want the stream to be actively using the uMote unless it was docked. So when its docked the uMote would stay awake and become an RSS reader for all intents and purposes. I actually imagine setting it up to allow for different options while docked such as:
1. What's Happen'n in Your Nintendo World 2. RSS, etc. Reader. 3. Digitial Picture Frame from locally stored pictures. 4. Clock, (Especially if you could set it to the Cool GCN Clock)
When its not docked it would default to "What's Happen'n in Your Nintendo World" but, the controller would sleep so, you have to pick it up and he would wake up and show you. The battery drain of constant display would make for some annoying useability. Haven't played WiiU for a week and you want to have to charge the controller. Where if it was sleeping he just wake up. I also put some direct links in their so, he wake up, you click out of "Your Nintendo World" and it would show the WiiU menu hit what you want to play and the system will just need you to get the rest of your gear up, though if the Universal remote setup happen uMote would do that was well and you be fully into your game with a couple clicks.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 12, 2011, 01:29:30 PM
If you were to put it in a dock, I would imagine that dock would also charge the controller which would be the only reason the uScreen would keep the screen on in the first place. If it wasn't docked, then the uScreen would go to sleep to conserve battery power just like the Wiimotes.
I imagine that there will be dock, and while the uScreen is docked, not only will it charge, but by default, the console will then be allowed to go into a minimal power mode (if you have set up online with WiiU Connect 24) where the console will continue to stream to the uSCreen but have most of the CPU cores shut down and the GPU clocked waaay down until they are needed.
While in docked (non-use mode), the uScreen will show a digital clock with a status bar at the top that will display if you have any messages sent to your system, and games or update downloads currently in progress, battery level, the date and a much smaller clock for when the main screen gets used for other stuff. Below the status bar at the top, there would be your friends list on the left or right (put it where you want) that updates live as friends log on or off and it will also tell you if they are playing a game and what game they are playing (privacy setting dictate what will be shown and to who). Just by tapping on a friend, an option screen will pop-up allowing you to chat, send a message, send a game invite (if you are currently in a game) or send a request for video chat. If you need to type a message, then an onscreen keyboard will pop up and you can type on a full touch QWERTY keyboard.
There will also be a few touch buttons/widgets at the bottom of the screen that will provide more information. Things you will be able to put as widgets at the bottom of the screen will be apps like Weather, Media Player & Picture Frame/Slide. You will also be able to put app shortcuts, such as Internet Browser, VC Games, WiiUWare(games and apps), eShop, Netflix and an icon for whatever game/movie is in the Disc Drive. (As one of your options, you could just make it look like the Wii main menu with a bunch of channels, your clock at the bottom and your status bar at the top)
*You will be able to message, chat, video chat, internet browse, play certain WiiUWare games and watch Netflix without unDocking the Screen* **Docked in-use mode obviously uses more power than docked non-use mode**
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Louieturkey on June 12, 2011, 06:08:40 PM
Online gaming is very important to us, and we've heard the demands of the veteran gamers that want that. So, we're going to be more flexible with online this time when it comes to online, we're going to work with our 3rd party partners. We're not going to have a centralized one type fits all approach, it is going to be more the publishers trying to figure out what they want to do and we'll try to bring that to life and make sure our platform can support that vision.
...
Hey this approach sounds familiar... Oh wait ITS THE GAMECUBE Answer. PSO being the only truly Online game confirmed.
Seriously terrible approach. As a developer I rather have something Deep I could tap into and build off of.
Agreed. That's pretty much like having nothing. The blanket approach lets me not have separate IDs for each 3rd party. The 3DS was a step in the right direction, that would be two steps back.
Actually, that is the PS3 approach. Sony has their PSN, but only Sony games run on Sony servers unlike Xbox Live where all games run on M$ servers. It's why EA shuts down year old games with a new updated game available, because they don't want to keep supporting a game they aren't making money with. It's why they went with the $10 EA online pass, so they could make a little money off used games that have online features.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: mr_lakitu on June 12, 2011, 06:21:54 PM
This is 50% of the Wii U that they can't afford to mess up if they really are trying to reach every gamer. It's maddening really. All the answers are a google search away Nintendo. Please, SHOW US THE MONEY!
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 12, 2011, 07:31:23 PM
Hmm... I definitely have trouble envisioning Nintendo managing their own server farms for all online games on the system... definitely see them use more of a PSN model than an XBoxLive model due to the fact that they just don't have much expertise in that area
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2011, 11:03:28 PM
Doesn't Nintendo run the servers for all online Wii and DS games with the exception of Monster Hunter Tri? I thought they did since all those games are branded with the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection logo, though I'm still unclear on how all this works.
All I want is free online play, however it can be achieved. Even if that meant keeping friend codes, which I never saw as a big deal. A bit clunky, yes, but nothing worth getting into fits over.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2011, 11:20:02 PM
Isn't the inability to add strangers because you have to know and add their friend code before being on their friends list one of the most annoying things about Friend Codes? So, you and I don't know each other and say we're paired on some multiplayer game and we're kicking ass and taking names more than any other random pairing. Once that match is over, our reign of awesome ends forever. We have no idea who each other is and no way of finding out. People talk about all the annoying 12 year olds on Xbox Live who have all apparently slept with my mother, but meeting new, awesome people to play with and against is also part of it. I think that's a good enough reason to say sayonara to Friend Codes. I'd probably play online more often if the platform was more accommodating.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2011, 11:33:59 PM
I guess friend codes don't bother me since I never add random players, only people I know to some extent such as on a forum like this one. In that case, I can see the trouble with them. There have been a few recent games like Call of Duty Black Ops which allow you to add random players, but that's an exception to the norm.
If they allowed you to add random players, would you still hate friend codes so much?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2011, 11:37:30 PM
Probably less so, but that wouldn't change the fact that there's already a much better way of doing things. That's like putting duct tape on something that you know needs to be replaced.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2011, 11:39:51 PM
The better ways cost money, though. I guess it is worth it to some to pay for a better service, but I'll take a lessor free version meself.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2011, 12:11:39 AM
It wouldn't cost any more to have a system with usernames that allows you to send friend requests through the system instead of exchanging codes outside the system like you do now.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Oblivion on June 13, 2011, 12:18:39 AM
This is Nintendo we're talking about.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2011, 12:28:27 AM
I understand that there are other reasons Nintendo might choose not to implement such a system. I was merely refuting Mop it up's point that it would cost more money to do it. On the subject of this being Nintendo, though, I could definitely see them not including a friend request feature even if they do switch to usernames as current rumors are suggesting.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Mop it up on June 13, 2011, 12:37:56 AM
I didn't say it would cost more money for Nintendo to run, I meant that it would cost customers money like it does now (referring to XBox Live for example).
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 13, 2011, 12:42:28 AM
Both PSN and Steam offer that functionality in a free service. As we've said before in this thread, Steam does pretty much everything Xbox Live does and is free. Microsoft only charges money for Live because they can get away with it.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 13, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
Both PSN and Steam offer that functionality in a free service. As we've said before in this thread, Steam does pretty much everything Xbox Live does and is free. Microsoft only charges money for Live because they can get away with it.
MS charges money for LIVE because it's been the only thing making them a profit in their gaming division for years.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Mop it up on June 13, 2011, 12:54:45 AM
Well I hope Nintendo doesn't get away with it. That's all I was saying.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2011, 01:27:58 AM
But, to point out the difference, LIVE has Microsoft providing the full backend support for online gameplay.
Steam relies heavily on PC gamers spending their own money to set up/rent their own servers and buy their own bandwidth for other players to play on. And like Louieturkey said, third parties have to set up and run their own online servers for PSN.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 13, 2011, 01:42:12 AM
So if we ran with a Nintendo Steamworks-like setup where the 3rd parties provide their own servers for their own games and Nintendo covers some servers for the smaller Devs that can't afford their own, yet it's all a seamless experience with a single unified log-in attached to your MyNintendo Account that also had cross game chat and an always live friendslist, then we would all be pretty satisfied right?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2011, 08:14:10 AM
Satisfied? That would be epic boner time for all.
This and other topics ask what Nintendo should do with their online platform. So, yes, they SHOULD go after and aspire to be the best (Valve's Steam). Personally, as long as the platform was competent and easy to use, even if it wasn't the absolute "best," I'd be "satisfied."
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Stogi on June 13, 2011, 10:00:11 AM
Not going to lie, but I haven't read a thing other than the first post. So yeah...
I think a 'Facebook' type online UI would be the slickest. Simply the ability to add friends that easy and see what they are doing through a live blog like screen. It could update your friends about what games you are about to play and allow you to join them. Also, being able to type-chat and video-chat with anyone not playing at the moment would be sweet.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Snake-Arms on June 13, 2011, 12:30:19 PM
This and other topics ask what Nintendo should do with their online platform. So, yes, they SHOULD go after and aspire to be the best (Valve's Steam). Personally, as long as the platform was competent and easy to use, even if it wasn't the absolute "best," I'd be "satisfied."
I feel the same way. Hell, all I really want is an account based system a la PSN/Live for my online fun. All that extra crap like the VC, demos, video etc is nice but I would gladly trade that for a smooth online gaming experience.
Title: WiiU Online closer to XBL/PSN
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 13, 2011, 07:30:24 PM
WiiU (&3DS) Online closer to XBL/PSN http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-13-wii-u-3ds-online-closer-to-psn-xbl (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-13-wii-u-3ds-online-closer-to-psn-xbl) I hope the comment on friend codes is referring to 3DS and not WiiU...
Quote from: Nintendo Manager - Rob Lowe
Lowe pointed to the 3DS's refined online set-up as an indication of where Nintendo's aspirations lie for Wii U.
"If you look at 3DS and the online of that you'll get an understanding of where we're going with Wii U and we're taking that even further.
"We can't talk about the details yet as Mr Iwata will announce those slightly later. But with the online of 3DS it's obviously a massive leap on from where we were with DSi and DSi XL. It's smooth, robust, it doesn't drop in and out.
"The friend code system has also been refined. It still exists but in the same way that you'd need to pair up with friends on PSN or Xbox live. Now it's much closer to that kind of online gaming experience than what it was before.
"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online.
He also reaffirmed comments from CEO Satoru Iwata earlier this year that Nintendo has brought in outside help to remedy its lack of internal online expertise.
"With Wii U I think that we've already hinted that we're looking at getting people in that know and understand online gaming as it's something that perhaps we've struggled with in the past."
I sincerely hope that some of those people in the know are on loan from Valve & Steamworks. If there is one thing Nintendo needs to get right, it's the online approach. Well, actually they need to get everything right, but online needs to be addressed as a major concern as they need to lure people off of PSN & XBL. There is no better way than to promise them a Steam like experience (software sales and all).
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: ThePerm on June 13, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
Heres what will make Wii U online the best thing ever
No Friend Codes(unless it was some sort of parental setting) Cross Game Chat NetFLix Web Browser Shopping Channel A la Carte Television Service (what....Wii Channel menu to the next level)
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2011, 10:42:43 PM
Quote
"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online."
No, you really don't. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to play babysitter or raise other people's children. People like to pass the buck and relinquish blame on companies like Nintendo or Google or Facebook. In the end, they're just bad parents. They're responsible for what comes in and out of their houses.
I know when Nintendo says, "we need to protect younger consumers," they really mean, "we're trying not to get sued." Still, they'll get sued anyway because you can just about sue anyone for anything any number of times (i.e. the Winklevii have sued Facebook and Mark Zuckerburg like 4869 times even after accepting settlements) but chances are those cases will get thrown out. Nintendo needs to write good warnings and have their legal team look over them with an even keener eye. Additionally, we have a rating system (that admittedly needs to be revamped) and we have parental controls. Nintendo shouldn't have to feel obligated to alter their strategy and online platform.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: ThePerm on June 13, 2011, 11:48:51 PM
well, maybe the legitimately care about children. Its one thing to worry about getting sued, its another to actually care. One could make the argument that Nintendo are not the parents of the children; well the children's parents are proven failures anyhow. So, can you blame them? If friend codes are to return, it should be some sort of setting. Like a protected mode that requires a parental password. Otherwise its not active.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Stogi on June 13, 2011, 11:49:50 PM
No, it should be the other way around. It should be activated unless you are a parent and deactivate it.
EDIT: But honestly, like I mentioned before, I see people in the same household having different profiles. Whether that means they have access to an account that can buy VC games or play 'M' rated games or surf netflix is up to each user. It could be password protected too.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2011, 12:00:57 AM
"We always try and strike a balance. Because we do have more younger consumers than any other hardware manufacturer or games brand we need to protect them while also making it as accessible as possible for the more active and hardcore consumers to go online."
No, you really don't. It's not Nintendo's responsibility to play babysitter or raise other people's children. People like to pass the buck and relinquish blame on companies like Nintendo or Google or Facebook. In the end, they're just bad parents. They're responsible for what comes in and out of their houses.
I know when Nintendo says, "we need to protect younger consumers," they really mean, "we're trying not to get sued." Still, they'll get sued anyway because you can just about sue anyone for anything any number of times (i.e. the Winklevii have sued Facebook and Mark Zuckerburg like 4869 times even after accepting settlements) but chances are those cases will get thrown out. Nintendo needs to write good warnings and have their legal team look over them with an even keener eye. Additionally, we have a rating system (that admittedly needs to be revamped) and we have parental controls. Nintendo shouldn't have to feel obligated to alter their strategy and online platform.
They're not obligated. But they're definitely incentivized by the image they have built with parents, a very profitable one no doubt. It's more than liability, and COPPA lawsuits. It's about the almost immeasurable worth of having a parent not bat an eye when buying their child a Nintendo game or system.
... I mean, I'd personally like a frictionless online experience too! But it DOES have to be balanced against a desire to uphold and protect the image that Nintendo has always projected of being family-friendly, right out-of-the-box.
After all, three-year old children play Nintendo systems. I know. I was one of them.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 14, 2011, 01:17:32 AM
To be fair, I said they feel obligated.
It begins and ends with the parents. Nintendo can put all of these roadblocks on their own platform, but unsupervised and unbridled internet access on devices Nintendo has no control over like a PC or smartphone supplants Nintendo's security measures quite easily (yes, I've seen some 7-8 year olds with smartphones). For parents who actually give a ****, they'll set the parental controls, they'll read the fine print, and even check up on what their kids are doing. All good things. They don't need Nintendo to be their watchdog though, admittedly, it's nice to have that extra measure in place. Alternatively, there are parents who don't give a ****, don't set the parents controls, and don't pay attention to anything until something bad happens at which point they look to see who they can transfer the blame to. Nintendo can't stop negligence. Something like Friend Codes is like an impenetrable fortress with a revolving door and a bright neon sign.
These problems aren't running rampant on competing platforms so I have to wonder if Nintendo sees a problem or if they're inventing a solution for a problem that doen't exist or is at least far less severe. Granted, the age of PS3/360 users tend to skew older, but younger players still exist on those consoles. For all the dipshit kids who all claim to have had sex with my mother and apparently are aware of my supposed latent homosexuality, I wonder what the **** they're doing even playing these games anyway. Who is watching them? No one. That's why Nintendo's safety measures only serve to annoy the people it shouldn't be annoying. For people who take safety seriously, they don't need these measures though, again, certainly nice to have. For the people who don't, the extra measures are undermined by their own negligence and irresponsibility.
No, it should be the other way around. It should be activated unless you are a parent and deactivate it.
I agree. If it's not already activated, I feel like fewer people are going to activate it.
I feel like the best way to balance accessibility and safety is by providing more specific options and requiring parental approval through password protection for literally everything. And they should all be set to the highest security setting by default. Nintendo's online platform should seem like it resembles the current set-up prior to toggling the options. Examples:
1. Voicechat: on/off/friends only 2. Display online ID: on/off/friends only 3. Accept friend request: with password/without password 4. Accept messages: on/off/friends only/with permission
And so on. They can even get even more specific than that. It still won't stop negligence because nothing can unless one makes the conscious effort to start caring, but it's there for everyone who wants it to be there and can be shut off for everyone else.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on June 14, 2011, 01:56:16 AM
I like that formula. Start the thing off at the most restrictive level of privacy and safety possible. Let users deactivate these barriers if they want, possibly even making this deactivation method a strict, hardcore-adult-required step. But once deactivated, let it remember it's latest settings, and toggle on or off with a simple settings change.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 14, 2011, 05:50:49 PM
I feel like the best way to balance accessibility and safety is by providing more specific options and requiring parental approval through password protection for literally everything. And they should all be set to the highest security setting by default. Nintendo's online platform should seem like it resembles the current set-up prior to toggling the options. Examples:
1. Voicechat: on/off/friends only 2. Display online ID: on/off/friends only 3. Accept friend request: with password/without password 4. Accept messages: on/off/friends only/with permission
And so on. They can even get even more specific than that. It still won't stop negligence because nothing can unless one makes the conscious effort to start caring, but it's there for everyone who wants it to be there and can be shut off for everyone else.
I came here to say something a lot like that. Friend codes do nothing to protect kids because they can simply swap codes on message boards like this one. If parental supervision of younglings' online activities is a serious goal, then kids shouldn't be able to circumvent the system. There should be a password protected master account on the console, and then kids have their own accounts, with whatever restrictions their parents feel are appropriate. Adding a friend should by default require permission from the master account.
Meanwhile, us adult gamers benefit because having multiple accounts per system is closely related to accounts not being tied to a specific system. At the very least, being able to use your account on another console as a guest should be possible so you can have access to games, DLC, and even saves. I've taken Guitar Hero to a friend's house several times, but I can't take any of my downloaded songs with me, and that's kind of annoying when some of my favorite songs aren't on the disc. The benefits to word of mouth advertising should be obvious enough for anyone to see.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 14, 2011, 07:23:56 PM
Sounds like you want some cloud saving features to be built in to the Nintendo ON.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 14, 2011, 07:36:20 PM
I don't like the idea of cloud stuff because the clouds are actually Zeppelins, and they are easy to be shot down by hackers. It would be the digital era equivalent of the Hindenberg disaster.
Sounds like you want some cloud saving features to be built in to the Nintendo ON.
I have everything unlocked in Brawl. ;D I take it to a friend's house. ;D Nothing is unlocked there. >:(
I don't think you can even copy the save data to an SD card. I think copying is not allowed if online ID stuff is in the save data, which is something else that should be taken care of with a global friend list.
The cloud is the answer.
Title: Iwata Speaks WiiU Online
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 15, 2011, 01:30:56 PM
Iwata: WiiU to utilize Voice Chat & Social Networking http://www.computerandvideogames.com/307330/news/wii-u-online-environment-to-take-advantage-of-voice-chat-social-networking-features/ (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/307330/news/wii-u-online-environment-to-take-advantage-of-voice-chat-social-networking-features/)
Quote from: Iwata
"... What I have come to feel lately is that the idea of saying, 'we are going to create this style of online structure and that we would like you, the developers, to fit into the online structure that we are creating' is perhaps already out-of-date.
"So, for example with the question of VoIP, I think then what we would like to do is work with them on how to enable them to do that. But, what we're not going to do is to consider as prerequisite conditions that every game includes features like that because obviously there are some developers who may not want to do that.
"As for social networks, after examining the penetration and adoption rate of social networking services like Facebook, etc., we've come to the conclusion that we are no longer in a period where we cannot have any connection at all with social networking services."
"I think that once you hear what we'll have to say, you'll feel that Nintendo has a policy of adapting itself to changes in the network environment in a flexible fashion rather than the one of sticking to a rigid mechanism, or perhaps you'll notice that we have found ways to take advantage of these types of features like VoIP and social networking, where our systems have been seen as being weak in the past."
So... we will have voice chat... but not cross game voice chat? Also it might not be supported in every game, but that is left up to the developer.
I hope there are options for ingame and cross game chat. I don't think it has to be strictly one or the other.
I'm not really sure what Facebook and Twitter integration is gonna be in a console environment... Facebook log-in? face book friends list? facebook chat? Auto twitter update on game achievements, game being played and gamer status?
But i'm glad Nintendo is getting out of their bubble and doing something with their online service where everyone has input and the service will evolve from there. As that "here is our idea for online.... deal with it" approach was obviously not working out so well for anybody involved.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Caterkiller on June 15, 2011, 01:46:30 PM
Soon the days where I have to run to the computer, get in the chat room, get info about what stage or rules, and run back to the wii will be over.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on June 15, 2011, 01:56:41 PM
It's fair to leave it up to the developer though I can't imagine anyone but Nintendo opting out of including voice chat. This seems like a very anti-Nintendo thing to do. Normally, they would tell 3rd parties, "This is how we're doing things. Join us or GTFO." Still, I almost feel like a lot of developers wouldn't mind being "forced" to include voice chat because they were planning on including it anyway. It's 2011 after all.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 15, 2011, 03:08:44 PM
The voice chat thing reminds me of something Tycho at Penny Arcade complained about when Microsoft announced voice chat built into the OS so you could use it in any game. There was a game (maybe Chromehounds?) that featured enabling voice chat as part of the gameplay. You had to build and defend communication towers to extend radio range or something to that effect. Microsoft's new feature destroyed that entire facet of the experience.
On the other hand, there should definitely be a way to voice chat outside of the games, and if players decided to start up a game that supported voice chat, it would be nice if the system could automatically move them into the game's chat and back again. That might be too difficult, but it would adequately mirror cross-game chat running in the background while still giving developers plenty of freedom to experiment.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Stogi on June 15, 2011, 04:02:48 PM
What's so useful about cross-game chat? Isn't the point of chat to talk to players you are playing with and not calling your buddies?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: bustin98 on June 15, 2011, 04:11:31 PM
Say I'm playing a game, and you're playing a game, and I'm done playing but want to do some multiplayer. I can hit you up and say 'Hey, want to do some co-op or deathmatch?' The conversation can start while we are in seperate games, and continue into the new game.
I think its backwards thinking of Nintendo to not include VoIP as part of the OS. Maybe its because they aren't talented enough to create a fully featured OS, as they concentrate on games, not really the environment beyond the hardware.
Or maybe the trademark sea that needs to be navigated relating to the technology is too much, licensing fees too great. I would pay a fee like I pay Microsoft for a full featured system. Users who don't pay can still play online, just without chat unless implemented by the game.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: ShyGuy on June 15, 2011, 04:14:09 PM
It seems probably that the EA origin service is coming over to the Wii U. www.origin.com
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 15, 2011, 04:18:27 PM
What if I was playing Super Mario Universe and you were on the WiiU Internet browser(or a different single player game). We could still have a conversation even though I was currently in a game and you weren't (in the same game).
Or if we were both watching the same movie at the same time. (MFT WiiU Netflix edition) Now you could MST3000 that movie real time with multiple people all at the same time.
Maybe one is in a game and the other is just watching TV with the uMote in the dock and the 2 of you are chatting. Or maybe you were in a group chat and decided to play a little Plants vs Zombies while you talk. No reason the conversation should end just because I decided to multi-task.
There are plenty of uses.
edit: seems I was beaten by Bustin.
@ Bustin, atleast Nintendo's new system will be able to update it's features if 3DS is anything to go by. So a VoIP included system wide could be added at a later date and it shouldn't affect any game that was programmed differently.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 15, 2011, 04:25:05 PM
It seems probably that the EA origin service is coming over to the Wii U. www.origin.com
After what EA did to the Origin responsible for Ultima and Wing Commander, seeing them using that name like that just stings.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 15, 2011, 04:34:58 PM
Even the Wii supported voice chat (albeit in a piss poor way), so I'm sure the Wii U will as well. As a matter of fact, that uTablet thing has a microphone built right into it, so its going to be something bundled with the console which every player is going to have from day one of purchase.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: bustin98 on June 16, 2011, 12:51:10 AM
The Wii chat support was per game, or you had to launch the channel. More than likely, you'll have to launch another similar app on WiiU to chat, or per game.
Now, if it's possible to update the OS to access features that weren't there before, then that would be fine, except the early adapters are usually the ones who want to use those features. This is why the 'emptying the fridge' of the Wii was so incredulous. The people waiting for the Wii to drop in price are the ones who don't give a **** about the limitations of the system. Meanwhile, everyone who had the system for three years prior is pulling their hair out.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 22, 2011, 01:08:56 PM
I just wanted to revive this thread since it's dedicated to Nintendo's Online Network (aka Nintendo ON)
Peter Moore: Wii U Online is Extensive! http://nintendoeverything.com/77499/moore-wii-u-is-a-very-exciting-machine-features-extensive-online-capabilities/ (http://nintendoeverything.com/77499/moore-wii-u-is-a-very-exciting-machine-features-extensive-online-capabilities/)
Quote from: Famitsu via Nintendoeverything
EA COO Peter Moore recently sat down with Famitsu to talk about all sorts of things, including the Wii U. Moore talked excitedly about the system and teased “extensive” online features for the console.
He said:
“It’s a very exciting machine and I’m glad to see it out there. I mean, a hi-def Nintendo platform! There’s nothing that could make me happier. Its online capabilities are really extensive, too, so we’ll be able to differentiate ourselves from the competition more easily with our sports lineup. We can’t announce anything yet, but what I can say is that Nintendo is a company that’s been producing new types of play culture for years. The 3DS and Wii U have taken on that DNA, so I really can’t wait to see what kind of new surprises are waiting for us.”
EA Pushing for Origin to be the Wii U Exclusive Online System? http://wiiugo.com/exclusive-ea-origin-to-be-a-key-element-of-nintendos-online-strategy/ (http://wiiugo.com/exclusive-ea-origin-to-be-a-key-element-of-nintendos-online-strategy/) Trying beat out Valve from getting on the Wii U?
Quote
We received a tip from an EA intern with some very interesting information pertaining to the Wii U’s online system. Our source, who wishes to remain anonymous, claims that her information comes from a network engineer whom she is friends with. As with all news from anonymous sources, it’s difficult to determine its authenticity. But what we received sounds plausible and even explains Peter Moore’s relentless excitement for the Wii U.
It’s no secret that EA are helping Nintendo develop the Wii U’s online service. It will allegedly offer voice- and video-chatting support, leaderboards, and detailed friend lists that tell you who’s online and what they’re playing. The service aims to offer greater flexibility to publishers than Xbox Live, and EA . From our source:
Quote
Many publishers are happy with Xbox Live’s features, but they aren’t happy with how strict Microsoft’s guidelines are. Nintendo went with an open flexible approach with online because when Nintendo asked developers/publishers what they wanted in an online service, that was the number one thing they asked for.
But interestingly, EA are supposedly in talks with Nintendo to try and make Origin, their digital games distribution platform, a key element of Nintendo’s online strategy, too.EA would have the chance to bring Origin to the console space and win many new users while Nintendo see it “as an opportunity to rebuild relationships with Western gamers because they feel that only a massive western company such as EA nderstands what is needed to make an online service attractive to western gamers.”
According to our source, EA isn’t the only company looking into bringing its digital distribution platform to the Wii U – Valve, too, are interested in getting Steam onto it. But EA are “aggressively persuading Nintendo to go Origins exclusive with Wii U’s online so they can gain a competitive advantage over Steam.”
Personally I would love to see Steamworks be the base of Nintendo's online, but if they can work out a blend of the 2 under some Nintendo branding that has deals just like Steam but also with full EA & Valve support, then that is perfectly fine with me.
Edit: But i'm sure the "wild west" use your own service approach will work out fine too. Lots of devs will probably just use Steam once they port over the PC version anyway. EA will be free to use Origin, Ubisoft will probably use theirs and everyone will be happy.
I know that there has been discussion on these two stories in 2 different threads already, but I though we should consolidate all out thoughts into one thread on the subject.
So EA is loving the scope of Nintendo's online offerings at this point and now they also want to be the sole Digital Distributor as an attempt at beating out the forum favorite (Valve) from having any presence on the system.
We may have discusses our reasons why we don't want to see EA as the only one in charge, but I don't think anyone touched on the fact that Valve was indeed trying to be part of Wii U.
and I also want to add this since "Wild West" approach is a term that has been thrown around and I want to post my interpretation of what that may be like.
This is how I imagine Nintendo is setting up their Online Network.
You log in to an account attached to your My Nintendo that has a username and password. Once logged in you will have access to the eShop, your friends list, chat, etc etc.
Everything will seem very unified behind Nintendo from the Users point of view. You go into the shop, you see games listed, you can buy them, download them, play them. You can insert a disc into the drive and choose the option to go online.
This is where the portal comes into play.
You chose to play BF3 so it routes you through Origin servers which handle all the cross talk, chat and online play. If you chose Killer Freaks, it routes you through UbiPlay ....Valve's Black Box routes you through Steamworks etc etc.
From the users standpoint, you won't really be able to tell the difference other than the logo that will pop up before you start playing.
You decide to download a game or some DLC depending on who made the game, it will route you through which ever portal is hosting that particular game or DLC and you download it through there. Eitherway, you wouldn't even notice you are no longer on Nintendo's server except for a logo that would probably pop up while you are waiting for the download to start (think like a startup logo before a game).
This is why I think alot of software is gonna be running through the Steam portal (assuming it works anywhere near how I imagine) as I assume it will be multi-plat and will likely use the PC build as a port which will already be Steam enabled for the majority of games.
So if Activision had a game, they would probably run it through Steamworks If Capcom had a game, they would probably run it through Origin Nintendo would obviously run their own games through their own servers Konami might also choose Origin, but iD might choose Steamworks
EA's play right now is to ensure that all these Publishers would run it through their portal (and only their portal since it would be the only option) and therefore have no excuse to not also release the game on the PC through Origin. There is no way that Nintendo is gonna allow EA that kind of power on Big N hardware. It would also really alienate Activision and Valve software.
any questions? thoughts?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Lithium on November 22, 2011, 04:40:45 PM
While that sounds awesome i'm just so disillusioned with nintendo's online strategy that i've pretty much given up on them. I'm sure they'll find a new way to screw things up.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Adrock on November 23, 2011, 09:29:45 AM
The "Wild West" approach might be the best choice as Nintendo should be weary of giving any company, be it EA or Valve, too much pull with the console. It promotes favoritism and that just looks bad. On the other hand, siding with one may yield some exclusives or preferential treatment in return which could help Nintendo in the long run. What if Nintendo got Half-Life 3 as a console exclusive (meaning also on PC but no other console version) for a few months or even forever? What if they got ALL of Valve's titles console exclusive? I don't know if Nintendo should say no to that. They're more likely to get such a deal from Valve than EA. It may alienate other 3rd party publishers but Nintendo would finally have games that non-Nintendo gamers would buy a Nintendo console for and they would be exclusive no less. At that point, Wii U could become so popular that jilted 3rd parties would begrudgingly support the console just for a piece of the pie.
Certainly, there are pros and cons to any approach. Nintendo shouldn't go all-in with any company unless they got something substantial in return. Exclusives might be worth it since they're much harder to come by these days. Nintendo has their own fans locked up but they need something to draw everyone else away from the competition.
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 12, 2011, 11:28:26 AM
Suggestions after playing some Mario Kart 7 Online
"Waiting room lobbies with text and voice chat, friendlist invites to join your room or game, ingame chat either text or voice. Something. I need to be able to communitcate with the people I'm playing with in some manner, even if they just expand the pre-defined text list. And they should drop you back into a lobby inbetween matches so you can wait for more people or change the game you're playing or adjust your options or something."
Nintendo has taken baby steps, but they need make a few leaps of faith too. So they better get Gabe in the lab and get to work on something better than what the 3DS is showing. It needs to all be ready on Day 1.... no it all needs to be ready (to show) by E3 and then accessable/functional on Day 1
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on December 30, 2011, 03:43:29 PM
More "improvements" inspired by Swapnote on 3DS
Sortable Friendslist
We need to be able to divide our contacts into Groups. I want a Work Group, IRL Friends Group & an NWR group so that I can write a message that only goes to my NWR folks without having to individually select your names out of possibly hundred(s?) of names, especially when I can't even give your Mii's nicknames to keep them all straight.
i.e. Mii name is Carl.... WTF is your forum name!? How should I know? You are grouped into a large ass pool of other Miis 2 of which have the name Carl.... am I just supposed to recognize your Mii from the dozens of other Mii's that all look a little similar?
Which brings me to "Nicknames".
I should be able to name the contacts on my end even if the Mii they are using has a specific name that shows.
I add ShadowHeartX9 to my Friendslist and he names his Mii PeteyBoy because his real name is Peter.... well that's fine, but I know him by ShadowHeartX9, so that name should be at the top of their contact page with the name "PeteyBoy" at the bottom next to the Mii. That would end alot of confusion as to who is who, especially when people share the same names for their Miis.
I go into my friendslist now and all I see are the names: PeteyBoy, Carl, John, Sally, Susy, MikeXXX, Dub1 & SexxyCat
....who the **** are those people? I know who I added, but I don't know those names. Why does this even have to be suggested?
Title: Re: Nintendo's Online Network [Armchair CEO Time]
Post by: Kairon on December 30, 2011, 05:04:52 PM
