Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 03:28:09 PM
Title: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 03:28:09 PM
With the announcement of such games as The Last Story, Dragon Quest 10, Arc Rise Fantasia, and many others, I have to wonder what the future holds for the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles. Up to this point, there has been some what of an RPG drought on the wii. However, with the adevent of these games I have to wonder if they will usher in a new era of games for the wii, or will they fade away with the passage of time?
A while back on the topic of The Last Story, I mentioned how I felt that a new era of RPGs, or renaissance, was on the horizon for the wii, or their future console.
As I mentioned before, I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive, allow me to reiterate my statement. That game could very well be a 3DS exclusive instead. Look at it this way, the collossul success of Dragon Quest 9 for the DS and the fact that it seems like Japan is moving towards the handheld market instead of the home consoles makes me think that Final Fantasy 15 could appear on the 3DS.
Overall, I wish to discuss what this RPG renaissance entails and what kind of factors would help bring it about on the wii. It all depends on the profiitability of these games on Nintendo's hardware.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Peachylala on July 16, 2010, 03:45:33 PM
Quote
I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive
...seriously?
Quote
That game could very well be a 3DS exclusive instead.
Sorry, but I don't think I can handle melodrama in THREE DEEE.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 03:46:43 PM
I wanted to test my theory that we could be entering anew golden age of RPGs for Nintendo's consoles akin to the SNES era.
The reason why I brought this up is that during that era we saw many ground breaking franchises emerge, or evolve. I can not think of two franchises that set the stage than Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger. These two games even to this day are still regarded as the best RPGs of all time. However, how long has it been since we had a truelly original role playing game that shook the foundations of the industry? This is a debatable topic, but I have the sense that the genre has been on a steady declince ever since. Here is my thesis: Will The Last Story be another popular RPG like FF6, or will it be a mediocre title.
I just have a good feeling that some truelly original and groundbreaking RPGs will come about on the wii in the months and years. What makes this so important, atleast to me, is that it just seems like a good time to be an RPG fan.
This is where my diatribe get the most interesting. You see, I know that Dragon Quest 10 is going to be a wii exclusive(or 3DS port?), but what does all of these new series mean for the Final Fantasy franchise? It means two things, First, Square-Enix might just ignore these other series and continue with a buisness as usual stuff. Second, they could make Final Fantasy 15 a wii exclusive. But Square-Enix probably does not give a **** about these other series. Honestly, I do not want to see anything Crystal Chronicles related from them on a Nintendo product for a very long time.
One might think that I am insane for suggesting that Final Fantasy 15 should be a wii exclusive, or that it is my usual nonsense about how certain games need to be on certain systems. No. I just feel like the return of a true Final Fantasy game to a Nintendo system is long over due. The HD consoles have had their fill with FF 13 and soon to be 14. They have the various spin off titles and what not to keep them buisy. What about us, the Nintendo fans? Is this a pipe dream? Most likely yes, but a man can have his dream.
A lot of Final Fantasy fans, including myself, are saying that the series needs to return to its roots and I could not agree more with this sentiment. Square-Enix, give us a Final Fantasy 9-esque installment on the wii. What better place to return to its roots than on the system that it first emerged?
However, I realize tha my dream will never come to fruition, but I do realize that we may have the closet thing to a true Final Fantasy game for wii already in the pipeline and that Game is the Last Story. So, in a way, Last Story is Final Fantasy 15 in some sense.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Stratos on July 16, 2010, 04:00:00 PM
Isn't Final Fantasy's roots pre-3D? Why 9?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 04:02:43 PM
The problem with your hypothesis is that we've had notable RPGs on Nintendo consoles before like Skies of Aracadia Legends; Ogre Battle 64; Tales of Symphonia; and the Baten Kaitos games. In the end, though, people (sadly) don't buy them in large enough numbers and the RPG developers go elsewhere. We haven't had solid RPG support on a Nintendo console since the SNES. Maybe it's the technical limitations of the post-SNES Nintendo consoles, maybe it's Nintendo's indifference to 3rd party support, or maybe the audience for Nintendo consoles just doesn't care about RPGs. I don't know, but I sense that nothing has really changed in any of those 3 problems with the N64 and GameCube, so I doubt these sudden Wii RPGs are going to change anything.
The other big problem I see reading into this Wii RPG lineup (with the exception of possibly Xenoblade) is that there really isn't a "must have" in that list. The Last Story looks pretty average, Dragon Quest 10 is probably going to be yet another coat of paint on Dragon Quest 1, Arc Rise Fantasia looks pretty awful, and Xenoblade is an unknown quantity. Tales of Graces could perhaps be a "must have" game, but it's looking less likely with each passing month that we'll see that game in the West. The game that sold me on purchasing a PS3 was Valkyria Chronicles, but I don't see an upcoming Wii RPG that makes me stop and go "damn, I want that game right now" and would make me want to go out and buy a Wii right this very minute (if I didn't already have one). What upcoming RPG is going to spark a sudden surge in sales that causes developers to just spam RPGs on the console? I don't see it.
And just to make sure this is clear, this isn't a "Wii thing" with me. I just don't find the lineup to be particularly strong or interesting, especially because I've been playing RPGs for nearly 2 decades now. I feel like the only reason we're seeing the RPGs we do have coming is because with the Wii developers can essentially just devote resources into making a PS2 game, but between the PS3's gaining momentum and the rise of the handhelds I don't see this going anywhere afterwards. Maybe if we saw this lineup in 2007 when the Wii was still young and there was still time for the console to establish itself as a great home for RPGs, then I could believe this could lead to something. For now, I would just hope the games exceed all expectations and that the games are good. We'll see what happens from there.
As for DQ X going to the 3DS instead of the Wii, I do see that happening. Despite the laziness Because of the difficulties involved in making a DQ game, they do take an eternity for Square-Enix to make. By the time the game is ready, I think the Wii will be done as a primary gaming console. From that point, they either make it a Wii 2 or 3DS game, and with the rise of the handheld market in Japan I don't see why you make it a Wii 2 game unless you dual-platform it like Ninokuni's doing.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Ian Sane on July 16, 2010, 04:36:23 PM
Until I actually see screenshots of DQ X I'm hesitant to include it as a Wii release. As broodwars mentioned by the time it's ready it might make sense to release it as a 3DS or Wii 2 title.
The RPG genre is not one that Nintendo seems particularly interested in. They themselves are not going to provide enough RPGs to bring any console of their's to a SNES-like golden age of RPGs. They need third party support for that. The SNES had support from almost every significant RPG developer of the time, including Square and Enix as exclusives. The only RPGs you didn't see were from Sega or were ones that used CD technology which Nintendo obviously didn't offer at the time.
Third party support is essential to have a strong lineup for virtually any genre. The only genres that have been strong on a Nintendo console since the N64 have been ones that Nintendo themselves are strong at. The Wii is a pretty awesome console for platformers and that makes sense since Mario, Donkey Kong, Wario and Kirby are all big names in platforming and they're all Nintendo exclusives. For better or worse Wii Sports' success has attracted many games of that genre to the Wii (unfortunately no one but Nintendo makes good ones). The FPS genre, for example, is very weak on the Wii and that makes sense because Nintendo does not make FPS games and the third party support is very weak so third parties aren't bringing their big FPS games to the console either. Meanwhile Sony and MS have their own popular FPS franchises (Killzone, Restistance, Halo) and healthy third party support and both consoles are strong FPS systems.
Third party support is the answer for any genre shortcomings on a Nintendo console. That issue has to be resolved first and foremost. After that then it all depends on what console seems like the ideal choice for devs of that genre to support. Nintendo can influence that by their own games.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 16, 2010, 04:52:08 PM
But DQ games always show up at the end of a consoles life cycle when it has it's largest install base. It's possible that DQX could move and be a 1st year Next-Gen title, but old habits die hard.
Some Forward Compatibility might be the best route to take since it will be out really late in Wii life if it comes at all.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 05:17:14 PM
The problem with your hypothesis is that we've had notable RPGs on Nintendo consoles before like Skies of Aracadia Legends; Ogre Battle 64; Tales of Symphonia; and the Baten Kaitos games. In the end, though, people (sadly) don't buy them in large enough numbers and the RPG developers go elsewhere. We haven't had solid RPG support on a Nintendo console since the SNES. Maybe it's the technical limitations of the post-SNES Nintendo consoles, maybe it's Nintendo's indifference to 3rd party support, or maybe the audience for Nintendo consoles just doesn't care about RPGs. I don't know, but I sense that nothing has really changed in any of those 3 problems with the N64 and GameCube, so I doubt these sudden Wii RPGs are going to change anything.
The other big problem I see reading into this Wii RPG lineup (with the exception of possibly Xenoblade) is that there really isn't a "must have" in that list. The Last Story looks pretty average, Dragon Quest 10 is probably going to be yet another coat of paint on Dragon Quest 1, Arc Rise Fantasia looks pretty awful, and Xenoblade is an unknown quantity. Tales of Graces could perhaps be a "must have" game, but it's looking less likely with each passing month that we'll see that game in the West. The game that sold me on purchasing a PS3 was Valkyria Chronicles, but I don't see an upcoming Wii RPG that makes me stop and go "damn, I want that game right now" and would make me want to go out and buy a Wii right this very minute (if I didn't already have one). What upcoming RPG is going to spark a sudden surge in sales that causes developers to just spam RPGs on the console? I don't see it.
And just to make sure this is clear, this isn't a "Wii thing" with me. I just don't find the lineup to be particularly strong or interesting, especially because I've been playing RPGs for nearly 2 decades now. I feel like the only reason we're seeing the RPGs we do have coming is because with the Wii developers can essentially just devote resources into making a PS2 game, but between the PS3's gaining momentum and the rise of the handhelds I don't see this going anywhere afterwards. Maybe if we saw this lineup in 2007 when the Wii was still young and there was still time for the console to establish itself as a great home for RPGs, then I could believe this could lead to something. For now, I would just hope the games exceed all expectations and that the games are good. We'll see what happens from there.
As for DQ X going to the 3DS instead of the Wii, I do see that happening. Despite the laziness Because of the difficulties involved in making a DQ game, they do take an eternity for Square-Enix to make. By the time the game is ready, I think the Wii will be done as a primary gaming console. From that point, they either make it a Wii 2 or 3DS game, and with the rise of the handheld market in Japan I don't see why you make it a Wii 2 game unless you dual-platform it like Ninokuni's doing.
My whole question to this is whether this will change? Will it turn around? This is the whole point of disscussing the future of the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles.
Where are the sequels to such games as Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Trigger? In order for this renaissance to happen these games must come forth and be successful.
Could Xenoblade be successful because it is a Nintendo game?
Do western RPG companies like Bioware and Bethesda have a future with their franchises either on the wii or the wii 2? On one hand, they would suffer like any other third party developer, but I am interested to see what they could with their style.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 05:28:51 PM
My whole question to this is whether this will change? Will it turn around? This is the whole point of disscussing the future of the RPG genre on Nintendo's consoles.
Where are the sequels to such games as Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Chrono Trigger? In order for this renaissance to happen these games must come forth and be successful.
Could Xenoblade be successful because it is a Nintendo game?
Do western RPG companies like Bioware and Bethesda have a future with their franchises either on the wii or the wii 2? On one hand, they would suffer like any other third party developer, but I am interested to see what they could with their style.
I was actually thinking about this the other day in regards to the Tales franchise, and it suddenly hit me: Tales of Symphonia is the best-selling Tales game in the West. That makes sense, though: it's also the only Tales game released in the West that had the support of Nintendo's marketing, because I believe Nintendo funded the localization. I think for any RPG on a Nintendo console to sell well over here, it needs the full force of the Nintendo marketing machine. I'm not sure that Xenoblade will get that, but I think if Nintendo does do a real marketing blitz with it the game could be successful over here.
Regarding Bioware and Bethesda, that's just not going to happen. For one thing, both companies have problems getting their titles to work on even the HD consoles, as Mass Effect and Fallout 3 players can attest to (seriously, those two games are probably the buggiest I've ever played, and both have severe framerate problems). They're PC developers turned console developer. Their games are PC games made to run on consoles, and not run particularly well until recently. It's pointless to speculate what their games could be like on Wii because that's just not going to happen. Their games are just too ambitious (especially with the sheer size of the game worlds, despite all the cut & pasting) to run on the Wii, and I really don't see there being an audience on Wii or Wii 2 to support them developing on those systems.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 05:45:49 PM
When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean. To me, it simply means that Final Fantasy needs to return to its pre-Final Fantasy 7 roots on a Nintendo system. Something similar to what Final Fantasy 9 did on the Playstation.
I have never played Final Fantasy 13, but from what I have heared and seen about the game it feels very much like an HD return to the serie's roots and also an HD Final Fantasy seven to ten. So, the HD consoles have had their fill, now it is time for it to happen on Nintendo's consoles.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 05:56:11 PM
When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean. To me, it simply means that Final Fantasy needs to return to its pre-Final Fantasy roots on a Nintendo system. Something similar to what Final Fantasy 9 did on the Playstation.
I have never played Final Fantasy 13, but from what I have heared and seen about the game it feels very much like an HD return to the serie's roots and also an HD Final Fantasy seven to ten. So, the HD consoles have had their fill, now it is time for it to happen on Nintendo's consoles.
Your naivete is as charming as ever. I'm pretty sure 9/10 times whenever you hear about someone complaining that "Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots," they mean the same medieval fantasy crap with dragons; princesses; and legendary heroes that 99.9% of the RPG genre was until the Playstation era. The RPG fanbase tends to be made up of people that can just never let go of the way the genre has "always been" (see: Dragon Quest and Pokemon), something that really annoys me after a while.
And Final Fantasy XIII is nothing like the Nintendo-era Final Fantasies, except that status effects actually matter and the combat can be kind of hard at times. The only way Nintendo's getting mainline console Final Fantasy, though, is the same way that Microsoft got it: pay Square-Enix a lot of money. Nintendo's too stubborn and financially conscious for that, though, and Square-Enix loves playing with the latest toys. Nintendo burned its bridges with Square-Enix a long time ago, and I don't think we'll see them totally repaired for decades. Maybe a mainline Final Fantasy could come to the 3DS, but I think it would be more of a side-story to a console Final Fantasy (much like Square does with the PSP).
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 06:44:40 PM
What about that old tech demo demonstrating a 3D Final Fantasy for N64 using FF 6 characets. Well, what if Square-Enix remade this into a game for the wiiware service? New characters and settings and it might be a winner.
As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.
This brings me to another question about Square-Enix. What other major RPG titles could they bring to the wii? I would not be upset if a new Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre emerged on the wii built up from the ground with the newest technology. I want another Chrono Trigger game, but this is another pipe dream. Another Super Mario RPG would be great as well.
As for Bioware and SEGA, I want them to make Sonic Chronicles for either the wii, or 3DS. SEGA should make another Skies of Arcadia and a new Phantasy Star for the wii, or wiiware.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 16, 2010, 06:57:22 PM
I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive
...seriously?
The game won't be on the Wii, but I could see it being on their next console. The game likely won't be out until 2013 at the earliest (and maybe 2014), so Nintendo's next console could be out. Square Enix has admitted they are graphic whores and will release the mainline FF games on the best looking console, so if the Wii 2 has better graphics than Sony and Microsoft's systems, then most likely the mainline series would be on Nintendo systems again.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Ian Sane on July 16, 2010, 07:11:16 PM
Quote
When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean.
I'd argue that Final Fantasy has no roots to go back to. It's a trademark of the series to always have a new cast of characters each time and to change up the battle system. Changing things up with each game is Final Fantasy's roots. You can't go back to that. If you want to go all old school and play the same thing every time that's what Dragon Quest is for. The two series are complete opposites in design philosophy. Dragon Quest is conservative while Final Fantasy is progressive.
And it is clear that Square Enix likes to have a cutting edge presentation for Final Fantasy so there was never any way in hell that the glorified Gamecube 1.5 Wii was ever going to land it. I don't see portables getting it either.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 07:11:26 PM
I talked about how Final Fantasy 15 would be a wii exclusive
...seriously?
The game won't be on the Wii, but I could see it being on their next console. The game likely won't be out until 2013 at the earliest (and maybe 2014), so Nintendo's next console could be out. Square Enix has admitted they are graphic whores and will release the mainline FF games on the best looking console, so if the Wii 2 has better graphics than Sony and Microsoft's systems, then most likely the mainline series would be on Nintendo systems again.
What would all you guys think if at E3 2011 the wii 2 HD is revealed and Square-Enix teased Final Fantasy 15 as an exclusive of that console with side installements will be on the 3DS? What would expect from that game?
This is a little off topic, but despite the fact that third parties are not fairing that well on the wii could eventually lead to a succussful wii 2 experience. What I am saying, and especially for mature games, is that the market is there, but it has to be carved out.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 16, 2010, 07:15:49 PM
There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 07:17:44 PM
When I hear people say that Final Fantasy needs to return to its roots and I agree with this statement, but what does it exactly mean.
I'd argue that Final Fantasy has no roots to go back to. It's a trademark of the series to always have a new cast of characters each time and to change up the battle system. Changing things up with each game is Final Fantasy's roots. You can't go back to that. If you want to go all old school and play the same thing every time that's what Dragon Quest is for. The two series are complete opposites in design philosophy. Dragon Quest is conservative while Final Fantasy is progressive.
What I ment was to revisit all the themes and style of the early games. Basically, Square took Final Fantasy 1-6 and through them in a blender and made Final Fantasy 9. I want them to do the same with Final Fantasy 1-13, but on a Nintendo console.
I have never played too much of the Dragon Quest series, but I am interested in parts nine and ten, and I have part eight which I got half way through before I gave up.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 07:19:20 PM
There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.
I would settle for this, but I could not pass up the opprotunity to point to a Sony and Microsoft fan and laugh and say, "Look what I have and you don't."
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 08:02:58 PM
As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.
Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.
And I wouldn't hope for a Final Fantasy 9-style "homage" mainline Final Fantasy again. Square pretty much said that was a one-time thing, and from that point onward they were going to keep looking forward when it comes to the FF series.
Of course, they could always throw that completely out the window with that Final Fantasy 7 remake that all the freaky FF7 fanboys won't shut the hell up about, but let's hope Square-Enix doesn't cave in to that.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 08:06:56 PM
There's no way Final Fantasy XV will be exclusive to Nintendo's next console. It could come to it, but it would be as part of a multiplatform release.
I would settle for this, but I could not pass up the opprotunity to point to a Sony and Microsoft fan and laugh and say, "Look what I have and you don't."
And this is why I'm glad I own all 3 consoles now, because once upon a time I was that petty and childish as well.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 08:44:48 PM
As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.
Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.
And I wouldn't hope for a Final Fantasy 9-style "homage" mainline Final Fantasy again. Square pretty much said that was a one-time thing, and from that point onward they were going to keep looking forward when it comes to the FF series.
Of course, they could always throw that completely out the window with that Final Fantasy 7 remake that all the freaky FF7 fanboys won't shut the hell up about, but let's hope Square-Enix doesn't cave in to that.
Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?
This puts them in a precarious situation with Sony. I do not want to turn this topic into whether these games should be ported to Nintendo systems, so do not start none of that bull **** where I am naieve or childish, or what ever.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 09:01:50 PM
Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?
Yes, they did say that, and is there any plausible reason to believe that PR nonsense when it's so much more likely they were just looking for an easy excuse to move the projects to 3DS? They managed to put Final Fantasy IV with polygonal visuals and voice acting on a DS cartridge, so I'm not buying that they just "couldn't" put even Final Fantasy V on a DS cartridge as well. As for what they'd do when FF V and FF VI are on the 3DS, they would do what they always seem to do: remake Final Fantasy 1 and 2 again, in THREEEEEEEDEEEEEEEEEE!
Quote
I do not want to turn this topic into whether these games should be ported to Nintendo systems, so start none of that bull **** where I am naieve or childish, or what ever.
I wasn't going to, because I don't particularly care. And frankly, anyone who says they would run up to a fan of another console; laugh in their face; and brag about a console exclusive is a childish fanboy and deserves to be called on it. If you don't like being identified as such, you should consider broadening your horizons to that wide world of gaming outside your own, or at the very least develop a respect for gamers regardless of their gaming preferences. The more people play all the great games on all 3 great platforms, the better we all are for it.
That said, we now return you to your regularly scheduled charming brand of innocence that is Kytim.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 09:15:22 PM
Recently a big shot at Square-Enix stated that Final Fantasy 5 and 6 DS were scrapped because of hardware limitations. When questioned about wheter they would be made into 3DS titles the guy said that they would consider it in time. This begs the question as to what would Square-Enix is going to do once FF 5 and 6 emerge on the 3DS(if and when?) what will they do afterwards? Will they go further into the series and remake FF 7 to 9? How about FF 10 and 12?
Yes, they did say that, and is there any plausible reason to believe that PR nonsense when it's so much more likely they were just looking for an easy excuse to move the projects to 3DS? They managed to put Final Fantasy IV with polygonal visuals and voice acting on a DS cartridge, so I'm not buying that they just "couldn't" put even Final Fantasy V on a DS cartridge as well. As for what they'd do when FF V and FF VI are on the 3DS, they would do what they always seem to do: remake Final Fantasy 1 and 2 again, in THREEEEEEEDEEEEEEEEEE!
Matrix Software recently developed a game called Avalon Code for the DS. It used the same engine as the one they used for Final Fantasy 4, but with upgraded visuals and some voice work. Looking at this game, I have no doubt that they could easily pull off FF 5 and 6 for the DS. The only thing I did not like about this game was it was a repetitive hack and slash with RPG elements. If it were turn based it would be much better.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Toruresu on July 16, 2010, 09:17:56 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs. If Nintendo made at least one game of every genre, and promoted it as the next big thing, I bet they could see money rolling. Wii Sports did this, it inspired (much for our demise) a lot of similar games (that suck, but hey).
Say if Nintendo made a serious fighting game, like what Killer Instinct was, and it sold 1 million copies, 3rd party companies that make fighters would take notice and would release their games. The same with every other game genre. I believe that The Las Story is this game for Nintendo. They need to market it and be 100% behind it, just like they did with Tales of Symphonia, the thing is that for the Wii, it's too little too late. RPG maker's won't flood us with RPGs even if The Last Story sold 2 million copies simply because we seem to be at the end of the consoles cycle.
This is why X-Box and PS3 have the FPS and the RPGs. Microsoft/Sony don't make those types of games (generally speaking, I don't own either and I'm not aware of ALL of their games) so they get a 3rd party to make a game for them, and then they put the $ behind it to market it and NOT make it fail. What happens usually? The game is a hit, even if it sucks, and the rest of the 3rd parties go "Oh, that game sold well there, we should put ours in that console too."
Square-Enix in my opinion won't marry to one console anymore, ever. The old excuse of "whomever has the best graphics wins" was just that, an excuse. They are pretty much an independent studio and do not need Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's money to survive, but if they are paying them to put a game on their system, they will do it.
Nintendo needs to support these type of games that are exclusive in any way possible. They usually don't because they don't want to be related to crappy games, but all they need to do is try the game themselves. If it's a good game, exclusive and by a 3rd party, they need to use the full force of their marketing to make it sell, just like Sony and Microsoft do.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 16, 2010, 09:20:12 PM
As for the burned bridge between Square-Enix and Nintendo, I thought they patched up their relationship a long time ago? Although I wish the Crystal Chronicles series would never reer its ugly head for a very good while. An HD wii successor would better the chances of Final Fantasy coming back to Nintendo, but it is still very slim though.
Nintendo and Square didn't necessarily rebuild that bridge so much as install a tiny rowboat in its place: Nintendo gets to say that they have Square-Enix on their platforms, and Square-Enix gets to publish abysmal Crystal Chronicles games and Final Fantasy ports/remakes (where the real money is) on the Wii and handhelds.
I don't think there's any problem with Nintendo and Square's relationship. I know it's not that big here, but Dragon Quest IX and X being Nintendo-exclusive is a huge deal. Mainline Final Fantasy not being made for Nintendo systems has nothing to do with the relationship between Nintendo and Square and everything to do with Square wanting to go overboard with the presentation, which just isn't possible with Nintendo's current hardware.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 16, 2010, 09:25:39 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs. If Nintendo made at least one game of every genre, and promoted it as the next big thing, I bet they could see money rolling. Wii Sports did this, it inspired (much for our demise) a lot of similar games (that suck, but hey).
Say if Nintendo made a serious fighting game, like what Killer Instinct was, and it sold 1 million copies, 3rd party companies that make fighters would take notice and would release their games. The same with every other game genre. I believe that The Las Story is this game for Nintendo. They need to market it and be 100% behind it, just like they did with Tales of Symphonia, the thing is that for the Wii, it's too little too late. RPG maker's won't flood us with RPGs even if The Last Story sold 2 million copies simply because we seem to be at the end of the consoles cycle.
This is why X-Box and PS3 have the FPS and the RPGs. Microsoft/Sony don't make those types of games (generally speaking, I don't own either and I'm not aware of ALL of their games) so they get a 3rd party to make a game for them, and then they put the $ behind it to market it and NOT make it fail. What happens usually? The game is a hit, even if it sucks, and the rest of the 3rd parties go "Oh, that game sold well there, we should put ours in that console too."
Square-Enix in my opinion won't marry to one console anymore, ever. The old excuse of "whomever has the best graphics wins" was just that, an excuse. They are pretty much an independent studio and do not need Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo's money to survive, but if they are paying them to put a game on their system, they will do it.
Nintendo needs to support these type of games that are exclusive in any way possible. They usually don't because they don't want to be related to crappy games, but all they need to do is try the game themselves. If it's a good game, exclusive and by a 3rd party, they need to use the full force of their marketing to make it sell, just like Sony and Microsoft do.
This is why I'm so shocked they haven't made a full-blown console Pokemon. That's the one RPG Nintendo makes, and they must know how much people want it.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 09:31:37 PM
This is why I'm so shocked they haven't made a full-blown console Pokemon. That's the one RPG Nintendo makes, and they must know how much people want it.
They haven't bothered to make a real console Pokemon game for the same reason that Dragon Quest still plays like an NES game: it would take actual effort to evolve the franchise into something new, and people (at least in Japan when it comes to Dragon Quest) keep buying the old-style. We won't see Nintendo do anything radical with Pokemon until people stop buying it, and neither will Square-Enix with Dragon Quest until the Japanese stop going nuts over it.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 09:44:01 PM
The problem with Nintendo endorsing third party games is what will do with such games like Madworld or No More Heroes? They would not want to taint their image with mature games and this genre is where most of the bad sales are forming.
Secondly, I keep hearing all this talk about how the wii's life cycle is nearly over I keep thinking WTF. It seems like its life cycle has just started. I guess I have been a Sony man for too long becuase the PS2, and even the PS 1, were going fairly strong even after ten years of their launch.
The reason why I created this topic was mainly to talk about The Last Story, which I am very enthused about. I wanted to disscuss the potential evolution of the RPG genre that this game could bring forth.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 16, 2010, 09:50:20 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 09:53:00 PM
The reason why I created this topic was mainly to talk about The Last Story, which I am very enthused about. I wanted to disscuss the potential evolution of the RPG genre that this game could bring forth.
Well, first off I do have to point out to you that we do already have a Last Story thread (where you already posted some of those thoughts). ;)
As for where the RPG genre could be evolving, I think it's pretty obvious that we're starting to see an interesting melding of the RPG and the 3rd person shooter. Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 are essentially 3rd person shooters with lots of RPG elements and dialog trees; Fallout 3 is the same way as a 1st/3rd person shooter; Valkyria Chronicles is a Tactical Strategy RPG that plays like a 3rd person shooter; and The Last Story seems to have some 3rd person shooting and cover mechanics with its RPG design. Considering that 1st person shooters have become more like RPGs over the years with the addition of equipment; perks; experience systems; and quests, this makes sense and really was inevitable. Considering the RPG genre has been so stagnant for so long, I'm really looking forward to this melding of genres.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 10:02:40 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
As far as Nintendo's RPGs go, there are several things I would like to see happen. First, I would not mind seeing a Fire Emblem game done in the style of Final Fantasy Tacics, or Tactics Ogre. Basically abandon the straegy board game style and make it an isometic game.
Secondly, I want Super Mario RPG 2 and Chrono Trigger 2 for the wii.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 16, 2010, 10:09:07 PM
Chrono Trigger is a Square Enix IP, not Nintendo. I would like to see another Chrono game though (I am not sure it would be considered Chrono Trigger 2 though since it already got a sequel in Chrono Cross for the PlayStation).
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 16, 2010, 10:11:28 PM
If Square-Enix ever made a Chrono Trigger 2, it would be about as much a Chrono Trigger game as Activision's Goldeneye game is a remake of Rare's Goldeneye: yeah, it would try to steal as much from its predecessor as possible, but in the end it wouldn't be Chrono Trigger. That ship sailed when the Dream Team broke up and went their separate ways. They tried to bring them all back together again for Chrono Cross and they did roll out a decent game from it, but it was still a horrible sequel to Chrono Trigger. Look, Chrono Trigger is my favorite game of all time (pun not intended), but you have to let it go. We'll probably never see a sequel to it, and even if we did it couldn't possible live up to our expectations and would be nothing like we'd want. Just enjoy the original game for what it was, while looking forward to the games that these folks are making now.
And for the love of all that is holy, I really hope Nintendo never makes Fire Emblem an isometric TSRPG. There are already about a billion of those, and they're all the same Tactics Ogre clone. Instead, let's hope that Nintendo actually ignores its usual stubborn traditions and takes a good look at what Valkyria Chronicles did. I'd love to see a Fire Emblem game where you rode Dragons in 3D across a battlefield as archers shot arrows at you and you dove at them in quasi-turn based fashion from above ala Valkyria. :P: :
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 10:21:51 PM
This my point and belief in the RPG renaissance is that will we ever see another game that is so memorable as Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy 6. This is my whole point, I admired the so called "golden age" of the SNES era and wish to see it again, either for this generation, or the next.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Toruresu on July 16, 2010, 11:22:00 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 16, 2010, 11:48:07 PM
Okay, so if Final Fantasy 15 will not come to a Nintendo console, can they still do a new title that blends all the older games togehter and just call it Final Fantasy wii or something? A return to turn based Final Fantasies for a Nintendo console.
It seems, with all intents and purposes, that Dragon Quest is now a Nintendo franchise and Final Fantasy is a Square/Sony/Microsoft property. Although Dragon Quest 11 could be an HD title in the future, but we have to get part ten first.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Toruresu on July 17, 2010, 12:01:24 AM
Okay, so if Final Fantasy 15 will not come to a Nintendo console, can they still do a new title that blends all the older games togehter and just call it Final Fantasy wii or something? A return to turn based Final Fantasies for a Nintendo console.
It seems, with all intents and purposes, that Dragon Quest is now a Nintendo franchise and Final Fantasy is a Square/Sony/Microsoft property. Although Dragon Quest 11 could be an HD title in the future, but we have to get part ten first.
Final Fantasy is a Square-Enix property, Nintendo (and anyone else) can't use the name. Dragon Quest is also Square-Enix property, not a Nintendo franchise. But I do understand what you mean. I hope that the main Final Fantasy games does return to Nintendo systems and I have a feeling that the 3DS might do the trick.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 17, 2010, 02:34:58 PM
Kytim, no one is saying that Final Fantasy XV won't come to a Nintendo console, just that it won't come to the Wii. I could see Square Enix (no dash in there) doing it on the Wii 2 though.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 17, 2010, 03:47:20 PM
I am now leaning more towards Final Fantasy XV being on the 3DS as an exclusive title, but the wii 2 would be nice too. I have no problem with this title reverting back to a medieval setting with a kidnapped princess as a story premise. This argument is kind of dumb, but I thought it would be neccessary to discuss the probability of thisgame appearing on a Nintendo system and what implications it has for the future of RPGs on Nintendo's consoles.
Arc Rise Fantasia recieved a 7.5 in a Nintendo Power magazine. I had high hopes for this game, but a 7.5 out of 10 is not that bad for a game.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 17, 2010, 03:51:13 PM
Arc Rise Fantasia recieved a 7.5 in a Nintendo Power magazine. I had high hopes for this game, but a 7.5 out of 10 is not that bad for a game.
A 7.5 from Nintendo Power (a completely unbiased magazine, I'm sure) probably means a 5-6 in general. That's not good. I am kind of curious to read that magazine to see how they manage to dance around the unbearably bad localization (probably something along the lines of "well, you can turn the voices off...*whistles nonchalantly*").
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Sarail on July 17, 2010, 04:32:06 PM
Arc Rise Fantasia recieved a 7.5 in a Nintendo Power magazine. I had high hopes for this game, but a 7.5 out of 10 is not that bad for a game.
A 7.5 from Nintendo Power (a completely unbiased magazine, I'm sure) probably means a 5-6 in general. That's not good. I am kind of curious to read that magazine to see how they manage to dance around the unbearably bad localization (probably something along the lines of "well, you can turn the voices off...*whistles nonchalantly*").
I'd actually disagree with that statement, brood. Have you read recent issues of NP since Future Publishing took it over from NOA? Their reviews are actually quite harsh on games, and they seem pretty fair and judgmental towards all Nintendo console/handheld games. And yeah, I'm sure Arc Rise has terrible localization, but the barebones foundation that makes the game is probably pretty well made... thus the 7.5. I'm sure had the publishing company taken the time to localize the game properly, NP would have reviewed it in the lower 8s. I know I'm looking forward to the game after all... heh, and I will be turning the voices off. :P
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 17, 2010, 05:50:13 PM
In myopinion, here are a list of consoles that ruled the RPG genre:
SNES Playstation Playstation 2 DS(and PSP?)
What comes next is debatable. Could it be the wii 2, or the 3DS?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Stratos on July 17, 2010, 08:01:28 PM
Valkyria Chronicles is one of the reasons I want a PS3.
It looks like (Batallion Wars + Fire Emblem) x 100 Awesome Points.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Ymeegod on July 17, 2010, 08:54:57 PM
Sales matter so that whole FFXV being exclusive is as likely as me getting promoted--not going happen until hell freezes, thaws, and then freezes again.
I can see Square giving the 3DS an exclusive FF title, in Japan RPG still rule and handhelds are big there. But even though the WII has the largest fanbase, it's doesn't have the hardcore RPG fans. The top selling RPG for the WII is Paper Mario @ 3 million copies. The next was MH3 which hit 1 million in Japan but fell well short of the PSP sales.
Even the last two RPGs, Tales of Graces and Xenoblade haven't done anything special. ToG is at 220K and Xenoblade hit 150k which is pretty low compared to other games in the series.
Arc of Fantasia doesn't sound like a sysytem seller so I doubt that's going move in the states (it sold only 60K in Japan). Wonder why we get this instead of Tales of Graces.
Can't expect more RPG's when the current ones don't sell.
DQX still doesn't have a developement team assigned to it. At this point the game's basically vaporware, no the DQ series won't die (DQIX sold 4 million copies) but I think there wouldn't be a home version on any console.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 19, 2010, 01:36:17 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.
And with the exception of Xenoblade, they're only RPGs in the vaguest of senses.
Also, I don't want to start and east vs. west debate or anything, but when do you suppose people will stop being satisfied with the "interactive stat block" RPGs, and realize that there's much more to be offered in terms of "role-playing" than just upgrading your skills?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 19, 2010, 01:44:27 PM
The thing about RPGs in Nintendo consoles is that, like Ian said, Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Yes they do: the Paper Mario series, the Mario & Luigi series, Xenoblade. They also make the Fire Emblem and Advance Wars series (which are tactical RPG's), so it is a bald-face lie to say that Nintendo doesn't make RPGs.
Point taken. But you know what I mean. They make those, but they are not 100% behind them.
And with the exception of Xenoblade, they're only RPGs in the vaguest of senses.
Also, I don't want to start and east vs. west debate or anything, but when do you suppose people will stop being satisfied with the "interactive stat block" RPGs, and realize that there's much more to be offered in terms of "role-playing" than just upgrading your skills?
Considering all the complaining I've seen over Mass Effect 2's (which I'm playing right now and love) shift towards 3rd person shooter action over menu tedium, probably never. The problem with the RPG genre is that companies have been so complacent with the genre over the years that they've allowed the fans to dictate to them what the genre is. Then whenever a company sets out to do something new with the genre, you get the cries of "but THAT'S not an RPG! I'm not buying it!" from the die-hards. I've found, though, that "Role Playing" can't be defined by combat systems; settings; or genre conventions, and may be the most maleable of gaming genres.
Hopefully as all genres continue evolving and borrowing elements from each other, we'll start to see more of an acceptance of the RPG following suit.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 19, 2010, 05:03:50 PM
The problem with the RPG genre is that the consumer is too cynical. Look at it this way, these game companies, both East and West, are pouring all of their financial and creative talent into major titles and because the market is so over saturated and the consumer has a "been there and done that" attitude people feel cynical over the games being released and lose interest.
But it is not always the fault of the consumer, most gaming companies have failed to adapt to changing conditions in the market and they have also failed to display their IPs properly to the consumer.
This question is becoming increasing relevant due to the times we are living in, which is what is an RPG? How if the genre defined? What are some things t look for to determine if a game is an RPG?
Ten years ago this question would have been farely easy to answer. All we had to do look for a bunch of emo kids with a bad guy with turn based controls and we would have an RPG. With the advent of such games as the Mass Effect, Dragon Age and Borderlands series we are seeing the definition of an RPG transform into something that we have not seen too oftern in the past.
The whole point, or theme, of an RPG is evolution. At the start of the game you character, who just so happens to be an average kid or person, is weak both on a physical level, but also on a mental level as well. Through the trials and tribulations of the story, your character(s) is now officially mature in both body and spirit. This is the whole point of an RPG, you can watch your character evolve as you play. In later games of the genre, the character became for customizable with magic, weapons and armor and by the end of the game, your character was a power house because you, the player, controlled that character's destiny through evolution.
I have to ask the forum a question. Have we had an RPG since, let's say, Chrono Trigger that was ground breaking? This is debatable, but I would argue that although we have seen titles since 1995 that were ground breaking in their own right, we, or I, have not seen anything that people fifteen years from now will saying, "This is a masterpiece." What ever success Chrono Trigger had was attributed to two things. First, was the originality of both the story and gameplay. Second, the dream team pushed the quality of the title that it had no way to go but up.
Here is my second question. Could the success of an RPG like Chrono Trigger ever be replicated? Yet again, this is a debatablem topic, but for now I am looking at such games as The Last Story as the second coming of such games as Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy 6. Now before the fans of these titles grab their pitch forks and torches and form a lych mob for me, consider that I am watching this game with cautious optimism. After all, Last Story is being developed by the man who helped develop both of these titles and is currently over seeing the production of Last Story. Perhaps he is putting a little of that magic into this new game?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 19, 2010, 05:21:10 PM
Well, the first thing I would look at when it comes to creating a "groundbreaking RPG" like Chrono Trigger is to look at its predigree: the so-called "Dream Team" of Sakaguchi working on the gameplay; Toriyama on the artwork; and Mitsuda, Uematsu, and Matsueda working on the music. Square literally had the best people in the industry (at that time) at what they do working together to make Chrono Trigger under an inventive and fun script by Masato Kato to produce a perfect storm of excellence.
Flash-foward to today's market, and talent in the industry has become more diverse. While Square-Enix has a stranglehold on the Japanese RPG industry, it does not have a monopoly on the talent and S-E's lost a lot of their best employees to other companies over the years. I don't think any one company has enough skilled people or money to contract them out to create something like Chrono Trigger again. That isn't to say that we can't have great RPGs, just that it's exceptionally difficult to bring so many talented individuals under one roof now to produce something extraordinary. It doesn't help, of course, that the Japanese RPG industry (and Japanese entertainment in general) has been going through a lengthy period of creative stagnation that has allowed the Western RPGs to rise to prominence. Also, the old guard in game development is starting to be phased out, and the up-and-coming artists will take a while to truly learn the craft.
While the Western RPG developers are in similar situations at the moment, we are seeing talent consolidated in Bioware at the moment. I think if we see an RPG of "legendary" caliber, it's going to come from them if it hasn't already (and I'd argue that Mass Effect 2 might be approaching that category).
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 19, 2010, 05:55:11 PM
Well, the first thing I would look at when it comes to creating a "groundbreaking RPG" like Chrono Trigger is to look at its predigree: the so-called "Dream Team" of Sakaguchi working on the gameplay; Toriyama on the artwork; and Mitsuda, Uematsu, and Matsueda working on the music. Square literally had the best people in the industry (at that time) at what they do working together to make Chrono Trigger under an inventive and fun script by Masato Kato to produce a perfect storm of excellence.
Flash-foward to today's market, and talent in the industry has become more diverse. While Square-Enix has a stranglehold on the Japanese RPG industry, it does not have a monopoly on the talent and S-E's lost a lot of their best employees to other companies over the years. I don't think any one company has enough skilled people or money to contract them out to create something like Chrono Trigger again. That isn't to say that we can't have great RPGs, just that it's exceptionally difficult to bring so many talented individuals under one roof now to produce something extraordinary. It doesn't help, of course, that the Japanese RPG industry (and Japanese entertainment in general) has been going through a lengthy period of creative stagnation that has allowed the Western RPGs to rise to prominence. Also, the old guard in game development is starting to be phased out, and the up-and-coming artists will take a while to truly learn the craft.
While the Western RPG developers are in similar situations at the moment, we are seeing talent consolidated in Bioware at the moment. I think if we see an RPG of "legendary" caliber, it's going to come from them if it hasn't already (and I'd argue that Mass Effect 2 might be approaching that category).
As strange as this might sound, I would like to see a western RPG like Bioware to develop a major JRPG like Final Fantasy, but SE probably does not like the fact that Bioware is encroaching into their territorty. When Bioware developed Sonic Chronicles they made it like JRPG with some western features. This highbrid of a game was okay, but it gave some sense that a western company could make a JRPG work in some sense.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 19, 2010, 05:59:54 PM
As strange as this might sound, I would like to see a western RPG like Bioware to develop a major JRPG like Final Fantasy, but SE probably does not like the fact that Bioware is encroaching into their territory. When Bioware developed Sonic Chronicles they made it like JRPG with some western features. This hybrid of a game was okay, but it gave some sense that a western company could make a JRPG work in some sense.
That would be strange indeed considering the smug (overly-so in my opinion. They come off as rather arrogant) sabre-rattling that Bioware's been doing ever since Final Fantasy XIII launched, heavily criticizing Japanese RPG developers for a lack of creativity and evolution of design. After all that, I don't see Bioware stepping in and making an RPG that would appeal to the Japanese RPG market, and I see even less the Japanese accepting it.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Mop it up on July 19, 2010, 06:28:20 PM
The top selling RPG for the WII is Paper Mario @ 3 million copies. The next was MH3 which hit 1 million in Japan but fell well short of the PSP sales.
Do you mean Super Paper Mario? I don't know if that's accurate or not. VGChartz lists it at just under that, though Wikipedia has it as 2.28 million and cites a Nintendo financial report as a reference, though it's a older one. Regardless, I wouldn't consider Super Paper Mario an RPG, as it's most definitely a platformer above anything else.
I also don't think I'd consider Monster Hunter to be an RPG; at least, it isn't a traditional one, like Final Fantasy.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Peachylala on July 19, 2010, 06:39:09 PM
I would consider Super Paper Mario to be a Platformer sprinkled with RPG elements ala Metroidvania.
Quote
I also don't think I'd consider Monster Hunter to be an RPG; at least, it isn't a traditional one, like Final Fantasy.
Mostly Zelda adventuring with a sprinkling of RPG defense stats.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 19, 2010, 09:28:08 PM
As strange as this might sound, I would like to see a western RPG like Bioware to develop a major JRPG like Final Fantasy, but SE probably does not like the fact that Bioware is encroaching into their territory. When Bioware developed Sonic Chronicles they made it like JRPG with some western features. This hybrid of a game was okay, but it gave some sense that a western company could make a JRPG work in some sense.
That would be strange indeed considering the smug (overly-so in my opinion. They come off as rather arrogant) sabre-rattling that Bioware's been doing ever since Final Fantasy XIII launched, heavily criticizing Japanese RPG developers for a lack of creativity and evolution of design. After all that, I don't see Bioware stepping in and making an RPG that would appeal to the Japanese RPG market, and I see even less the Japanese accepting it.
What I was talking about was some company like Bioware or Obsidian could make an RPG of their own in the form of an JRPG and sell it to appeal to western gamers and at the same time flip such companies like Sqaure the bird. In fact, Obsidian expressed interest in remaking/sequeling Chrono Trigger if SE was interested in letting them do it.
I truelly like, nay, love Bioware's development style. This is one reason why I bought Sonic Chronicles because they developed the game in their own studio. But I have to be honest, they would have alot more credibility in criticizing Sqaure-Enix's games if they were still an independant comapny. They were mainly bought out by EA for financial reasons. Now, take Square for example, they brought themselves back from the brink of bankrupcy with the success of one franchise, the very one that Bioware is condeming.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 20, 2010, 04:07:13 PM
Square-Enix could do a lot more for the wii. For example, they could releases a sequel to Treasure of Rudras made for the wii.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 20, 2010, 10:15:59 PM
Well really I'm just wondering when people are going to realize that the currently accepted conventions for "RPGs" only exist because the hardware and software back in the day wasn't advanced enough to handle the true ruleset for say, Dungeons and Dragons, from which all video RPGs have stemmed. The games weren't able to be in-depth enough to encompass all of what a pen and paper RPG was able to offer, so they did their best to emulate the experience, by severely limiting it out of necessity.
It blows my mind that Deus Ex came out ten years ago, and games are JUST NOW starting to catch up to what was laid forth in that game.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: ymeegod on July 20, 2010, 11:48:45 PM
Sad, everyone gives credit to Deus Ex but skip over System Shock series :0.
One week away from Arc of Fantasia :).
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 20, 2010, 11:57:16 PM
It seems as though travelling a world map like older RPGs is fading, am I right?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: broodwars on July 21, 2010, 12:03:35 AM
It seems as though travelling a world map like older RPGs is fading, am I right?
Good riddance, IMO. The only reason developers ever used that convention is because their platforms weren't powerful enough to render an entire game world, so they used the shortcut of having the player avatar running over an overworld. Menu-driven "overworlds" let you get where you want to go right when you need to be there, and 3D overworlds are so much more immersive and can be better scripted and directed for more compelling events. Sadly, our platforms still aren't powerful enough to render detailed 3D worlds all at once, so using them for something like airship exploration is out of the question (which is just about the only scenario I still consider appropriate to use "world map"-style overworlds).
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 21, 2010, 12:19:36 AM
I was thinking of something like the older RPG over world movements married to something like the free roaming world of Monster Hunter 3.
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Kytim89 on July 24, 2010, 10:06:37 PM
So I guess Xenoblade will play a lot like Final Fantasy 12? I really liked Final Fantasy 12, but I did not care for the battle all that much. I prefer for an RPG to have a random battle system that starts when you touch an enemy on the field and the sequence starts right away. I also like controlling all of my characters on the battle screen. I actually heared that Final Fantasy 13 only allows you to control one party member, right?
Title: Re: The Future of RPGs on Nintendo Consoles
Post by: Stratos on July 26, 2010, 04:54:32 AM
How can you have a random battle system if fights start when you touch the enemies? Doesn't the fact you can see the enemies coming remove the randomness?
