Straight from Miyamoto, Nintendo's lackluster showing could be blamed on the nature of the new E3. He said they've got plenty of big core titles in the works (Pikmin being one of them, of course), just that E3 isn't the right place to show them anymore.
Also, EA and Ubisoft think the new event blows and want the old E3 back. (http://www.edge-online.com/news/top-ea-and-ubisoft-execs-slam-e3)
I can't remember if this had already been posted, apologies if it has (long day).
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2008, 12:52:44 AM
I think this was a miscalculation from Nintendo.
Nintendo decided that for core gamers they can hold any press conference at any time and be able to announce core games. People will hear about it and those core games would not be compared with other E3 games, but be seen by their own merit.
However, E3 is one of the few times mass media pass enough attention to games for Nintendo to get a message to casual gamers about what is coming in the future. Nintendo decided E3 will be the best venue to attract that market.
For the most part I agree with Nintendo...however, you have to at least show SOMETHING for the core gamers. Anything would be good. And Nintendo had tons of options to go with...however nothing really impressed and that is too bad.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Spinnzilla on July 19, 2008, 01:16:24 AM
Well this brings back a little hope. I think we'll deffinately hear something good at the TGS. If not, then we can panic.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: D_Average on July 19, 2008, 01:18:56 AM
just a few weeks ago Reggie said core gamers will be satisfied at E3.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 19, 2008, 02:29:39 AM
just a few weeks ago Reggie said core gamers will be satisfied at E3.
Of course he did, and it doesn't take a D average to understand why.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 19, 2008, 03:45:07 AM
I TOTALLY called this in the Day 2 podcast. TOTALLY.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Mario on July 19, 2008, 04:53:36 AM
The big thing E3 has (or had) over little random press conferences that pop up out of nowhere, is that it's something to look forward to. If Nintendo said "in 13 days we'll have new games to show off" then that'd be great, because we could all get together and have a good time, people from around the world all giddy with joy and wonder up at 2am, taking the day off work, or having a nice evening with fellow fans, all wondering what game is going to be announced, and what it'll be like, and eager to discuss and post smilies. No. What happens now is they just show their games off out of the blue when nobody is looking or cares. How about a little excitement? Where is the harm in that?
Things happened the wrong way around, E3 was an event we all looked forward to, geared at people who didn't know it was on until after it happened. If Nintendo was going to do some kind of non-gamer presentation, why not just hold that out of the blue? We clearly don't care for it. Why host their own personal stream on the Nintendo website? Just to make fun of us? There's no sense of community anymore, Nintendo has disconnected themselves from the fans. It's official. The relationship is over. Nintendo losing that sense of fun, wonder and imagination on the outside, has me incredibly concerned it's going to disappear from inside their actual games just as quick.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Deguello on July 19, 2008, 04:54:00 AM
I wanna know where the anger at Capcom was for basically RickRolling E3 by talking about a movie for 20 minutes and then leaving.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 19, 2008, 05:58:09 AM
I wanna know where the anger at Capcom was for basically RickRolling E3 by talking about a movie for 20 minutes and then leaving.
I'd also like to see the anger as well. People can say what they want about Nintendo but at least Nintendo devoted their conference to games. Unlike Capcom who kept talking about a movie that no one even cares about or wants.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2008, 10:32:50 AM
Spaceworld 2008 CONFIRMED.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2008, 11:07:42 AM
Another thing is Reggie and Nintendo miscalculated and thought Animal Crossing is a game that would excite Core Gamers...in an interview Reggie quickly jumped to that game...and he seemed seriously thrown off his game about Nintendo fans being upset, and the interviewer kept pressing him about other games for Wii coming out THIS year not next year.
It was a good interview in really exposing Nintendo's miscalculation...which I believe is the only thing that happened. Nintendo wanted to focus on the casuals, and thought Animal Crossing with Voice Chat would be the big core gamer reveal. everyone knew Animal Crossing was coming out though...and Voice Chat was the only really cool confirmation.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 19, 2008, 11:34:46 AM
The thing is, Animal Crossing really is a game that core gamers enjoy...This was proven by the fantastic sales of the Gamecube version, which was on a system that only sold to die-hard hardcore Nintendo fans...
The problem is that the people who don't like the AC franchise are the loudest and sound like the majority, when they are not...
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Mario on July 19, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
Well Mario Party on GC got big sales.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 19, 2008, 11:38:25 AM
Multiplayer game...Core gamers would buy it so they could enjoy it with their friends... =)
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2008, 11:47:14 AM
I will not deny that Animal Crossing has broad appeal, and can attract Core Gamers, and does attract Core Gamers.
But, Everyone knew it was coming...and Animal Crossing is still a 3rd rank Nintendo IP. Sure it is great to get a new game.
But If Nintendo really wanted to excite the Core Audience they should have announced and shown a small video of one of the following.
Pikmin Zelda Mario Star Fox F-Zero Donkey Kong Wii Kirby Wii Pilot Wings Completely new IP Pokemon
Hell just one of those IPs would have stopped the bitching towards Nintendo...but we got Animal Crossing, and I love Animal Crossing. I can't play it because my wife and I got too addicted to the Gamecube version, and that wasn't pretty...but I loved it. At the same time once you STOP playing Animal Crossing it is easy to let go of it and not play it again.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 19, 2008, 12:04:46 PM
How is animal crossing a 3rd tier franchise if each iteration sold millions?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2008, 12:33:06 PM
Yeah, Animal Crossing is 2nd tier. It's highly awesome, but I'm not breaking any appointments for it.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2008, 03:18:51 PM
At Animal Crossings heart it is a casual game much in the vain of Wii Fit and Brain Training. It just happen to have its debut on a core system. Word of mouth from the original game and the hype from Nintendo combined with the durst of titles on the Gamecube made us want to pick it up. Once we had it our casual audience significant others, family, and friends started playing it and Nintendo took note.
With the DS they tried a different strategy. Noticed how it had a slow start with that one. If we view Animal Crossing as a good title to place benchmarks the Wii strategy, as mentioned in another thread, that seems to be to get the Core excited which is the gateway to Word of Mouth to the casuals. That came out misdirected.
Put it simply Nintendo thinks that Animal Crossing is a core title be virtue of it getting popularity on what was a core system. When in actuality Animal Crossing is, almost by definition, a casual game. I even argue that Pikmin may fall into the realm of casual.
So yeah I wasn't excited about what I saw as a casual game and worst of all by all indication a game that I thoroughly played and don't really have a desire to do the same thing all over again. I enjoyed the two iterations I played but even the second iteration was getting long in the tooth for me.
I would also like to mention that I would have like to see a more technical presentation on WiiMotion Plus. especially something that side by side compared what is able to be done with the attachment and what the original is capable of. I like to see how much it really adds.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: shammack on July 19, 2008, 03:20:16 PM
There are no casual games; only casual players.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 19, 2008, 05:09:13 PM
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: SixthAngel on July 20, 2008, 02:33:25 AM
The hardcore internet fanboys have been simmering and waiting to boil over for a while now. A once big fan event that has since been changed to a smaller event that doesn't waste millions of dollars is the perfect time for the them to freak out. Even the new nature of E3 helps push their opinion that they are being screwed.
There was no miscalculation. Nintendo probably expected a backlash from the internet, they know what is going on and its not like these people were quiet before E3 This just gives them something to complain about no matter what and a stage to do it. The complaining about Wii Speak epitomizes there desire to bitch about Nintendo without a real reason. Everyone will forget this in two weeks and start whining about something else.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Deguello on July 20, 2008, 02:57:40 AM
LOL Indeed SixthAngel. And at the "victories" won will also be forgotten.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 20, 2008, 03:18:22 AM
I think someone should take notes on all the whining going on now and come back to them a year from now. Some may look pretty silly. ;)
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2008, 10:03:20 AM
I think someone should take notes on all the whining going on now and come back to them a year from now. Some may look pretty silly. ;)
Hell, do you remember when the Wii was first revealed? All the "NINTENDO IS SCREWED" posts? Pretty embarrassing stuff! :tpg:
Wasn't there a thread a couple months back that went through a lot of those?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Djunknown on July 20, 2008, 10:51:28 PM
Quote
I think someone should take notes on all the hysterics going on now and come back to them a year from now. Some may look pretty silly. ;)
Fixed ;)
Granted, I'm not immune, I've done my share overreactions. But nothing, nothing compares to comments made when the Wiimote was unveiled at TGS 2005. But for some reason, I can't find it...
Still though, Reggie got our hopes up, and for the most part, missed the mark. This statement sounds like a late patch up, so we don't get uber-excited next e3, assuming there is one. Never take Reggie for his word ever again. Or anyone in the gaming industry for that matter. They are handsomely paid to lie :P
Quote
I wanna know where the anger at Capcom was for basically RickRolling E3 by talking about a movie for 20 minutes and then leaving.
Quote
If we're judging on press conferences alone, I think Capcom gets the big thumbs down. Aside from being a Lost Planet: The Movie love-fest (at least a love-fest among the people on stage.), when live bloggers are contemplating streaming porn in a to spice up the monotony, there is a problem.
There you go.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Ian Sane on July 21, 2008, 01:38:19 AM
If Nintendo really thinks this then they shouldn't have had Reggie saying that core gamers would like E3. E3 has traditionally been the big videogame show that core gamers pay attention to. So when you tell us we'll like E3 then we'll get hyped about it. So, yeah, showing off ONE core game we already knew about was going to be a disappointment. Reggie mislead us and Nintendo is pretty f*cking clueless to not see that coming. Reminds me of the Wind Waker backlash. Nintendo showed really cool realistic Zelda at one show and then showed a cartoon at E3 and wondered why there was backlash. Gee, I wonder. Nintendo may have non-gamers conned into buying junk but they're still just as stunned as ever.
Next time don't say anything.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 21, 2008, 03:04:13 AM
Ahh... the stalwart Nintendo PR standby. It'll never go out of style.
Nintendo PR execs, repeat after me: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There are known knowns and there are known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns. And never buy a computer game for $20.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 21, 2008, 05:25:48 AM
Well, it could have been much better than it was, but can you honestly say Pikmin 3 and Zelda confirmation isn't big news? And even though it isn't really a game, I am very excited about that Wii Motion Plus peripheral. I think gamers are really underestimating its potential... because with that, we can finally have realistic swordfighting games and stuff, and that's definitely big news for core gamers.
So I'll admit they were pretty light on games, but come... Pikmin 3 and Zelda and Wii Motion Plus (and Miyamoto confirming Nintendo is looking into storage solutions) is all stuff which addresses gaps in the Wii that fans have been bitching about for quite some time. I think Reggie was right to think that core fans would be pleased with all this, but apparently Nintendo fans just expect too much. I think many fans were expecting E3 2006 all over again... well, sorry folks but E3 will never be that big again, and that's not Nintendo's fault. But what they did unveil was still kickass news, imho.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: redgiemental on July 21, 2008, 08:15:00 AM
They have been vaguely saying they will fix the storage problem for quite a while now. I just don't see it as news until they give us an announcement of when they're actually releasing something and what it is.
I think everyone knew that somewhere within Nintendo a Zelda game was being worked on. So wheres the news? ITs not news! If it was coming out soon and they'd told us something about it then it would be news but its not. They are always working on a Zelda game.
In fairness Pikmin is news. It was possible we wouldn't get a third game in this series and I'm very happy that I will get one. I don't think we will see for over a year though. So what would i get excited about this year?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2008, 01:22:34 AM
I'll take this one Kairon.
Perhaps games that aren't published by Nintendo?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 22, 2008, 01:59:11 AM
Really, all Nintendo told us was stuff that they could have said at any point since the release of GameCube, because there have surely been Zelda, Mario, and Pikmin games in some stage of development at all times during that period. Like Redgiemental said, it's non-news.
Make no mistake though, E3 was not a miscalculation on Nintendo's part. They knew exactly what they were doing. You don't omit a litany of excellent Wii games from your E3 presentation, show no WiiWare stuff, and practically ignore the DS by accident. What I do think they miscalculated was the amount of negative press they'd receive due to their casual skewing.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Michael8983 on July 22, 2008, 04:46:03 AM
The blame goes mostly to fans for psyching themselves up way too much for what is quickly becoming a non-event. But Reggie didn't help with his "core gamers" comment. People just need to keep in mind he's a PR guy for Nintendo of AMERICA. Unless it comes from someone high ranking at Nintendo of Japan, it's to be taken with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 22, 2008, 05:16:55 AM
The blame goes mostly to fans for psyching themselves up way too much for what is quickly becoming a non-event. But Reggie didn't help with his "core gamers" comment. People just need to keep in mind he's a PR guy for Nintendo of AMERICA. Unless it comes from someone high ranking at Nintendo of Japan, it's to be taken with a grain of salt.
Not to mention that most of Nintendo's branches seem to out of the loop when it comes to what Nintendo of Japan is thinking of doing.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Dasmos on July 22, 2008, 05:38:06 AM
Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: redgiemental on July 22, 2008, 06:20:20 AM
At the moment the main Wii I'm looking forward to is The Conduit but its out next year. I've already got Dead Rising for the 360 and I don't think I'll be buying it a second time.
Theres Deadly Creatures I guess. Warioland should be good but prob short since its Wiiware. Anything else I should be looking forward to?
I still think they could have thrown "core gamers" something. Reggie tells us they will have something for us and then just non-news.
Honestly looks like my 360 will be the main base of operations ......if it doesn't break lol
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Dasmos on July 22, 2008, 06:26:25 AM
Wario Land isn't WiiWare.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 22, 2008, 06:29:42 AM
Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?
I have. The thing is that we have no idea what went on between Reggie's comments and the E3 show. Nintendo has been known to change on a dime in the past or flat out "forget" what was said previously (Animal Crossing, and MP3 at launch anyone?). This is no different except people for some odd reason are reading tons into it. Classic Nintendo is what happened at E3, nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: redgiemental on July 22, 2008, 06:45:10 AM
Oh Warioland is a retail release? Excellent my interest has increased massively.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2008, 11:53:50 AM
Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?
Nintendo did what they set out to do: Be the victor at the "old" E3 in 2006, and destroy the Hardcore Carnival that it is (took 2 more years to seal the deal).
Conquer the enemy kingdom and burn down their castle that fell over and sank into the swamp. but the 4th castle stayed up LADDIE
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: SixthAngel on July 22, 2008, 03:58:48 PM
Make no mistake though, E3 was not a miscalculation on Nintendo's part. They knew exactly what they were doing. You don't omit a litany of excellent Wii games from your E3 presentation, show no WiiWare stuff, and practically ignore the DS by accident. What I do think they miscalculated was the amount of negative press they'd receive due to their casual skewing.
Negative press? From who? Gamestop? Gamefaqs? Kotaku? Destructoid? The people that were saying these things about the Wii for a long time already. These places are being shown irrelevent.
Don't forget that at this point negative views from these sites can even have postivie consequences. The more the "geeks" who play so many games claim a console sucks it gives other people a reason to see it as different and a legitimate way to spend their time. Nintendo wants to change the perception of games and this actually helps that image. Any new Wii fan or potential new gamer is going to picture some big fat sweaty guy with a neckbeard complaining about his l33t gamez.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2008, 04:18:44 PM
I'd better shave.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 22, 2008, 04:24:29 PM
Don't forget that at this point negative views from these sites can even have postivie consequences. The more the "geeks" who play so many games claim a console sucks it gives other people a reason to see it as different and a legitimate way to spend their time. Nintendo wants to change the perception of games and this actually helps that image. Any new Wii fan or potential new gamer is going to picture some big fat sweaty guy with a neckbeard complaining about his l33t gamez.
That reminds me of a discussion I had once with a coworker about the Enter the Matrix debacle and how it was a huge title with an enormous budget that turned out to be crap. He wondered if maybe he'd like it since it was a game all the regular gamers thought was terrible. That seems rather prophetic in hindsight.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Ian Sane on July 22, 2008, 05:28:31 PM
Quote
That reminds me of a discussion I had once with a coworker about the Enter the Matrix debacle and how it was a huge title with an enormous budget that turned out to be crap. He wondered if maybe he'd like it since it was a game all the regular gamers thought was terrible. That seems rather prophetic in hindsight.
This reminds me of some of people I know who claim they never listen to film critics and in fact pretty much do the opposite of what they say. I've seen my share of films that critics hated that I liked and vice versa but generally if I go by the fresh ratings on Rotten Tomatoes I avoid a lot of crap. These people almost invariably have horrible taste in everything, are easily confused, spout ignorant "facts" that are easily proven wrong with five seconds of research (but they still maintain they are correct even when clear evidence to the contrary is presented), have poor driving records, always have money problems despite being well paid, need jokes explained to them, never pick up on anything subtle, and can't spell.
Critics aren't trying to trick you. They're not infallible but they generally know what they're talking about. There's nothing wrong with being a smart shopper and having good taste. But hey ignornance is so much more fun so let's all watch American Idol because we're too lazy or stupid to discover better TV shows.
Catering to the lowest common denominator makes no sense. It's like reverse evolution.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 22, 2008, 06:08:42 PM
He and I didn't agree on everything, but he was a smart guy and I respected him (all that past tense makes it sound like he died, but he just moved to Tennessee [insert obvious joke here]). I believe his line of thinking was that the game might not have all the trappings of typical games that he didn't like and might be more accessible to him. Of course, his thinking was flawed because he didn't take into account the possibility that gamers could hate the game for reasons he might agree with, and I told him so at the time. I have no idea whether he ever tried the game. I just find it interesting to recall that moment today because I see now that he was demonstrating the presence of an untapped market well before I ever heard the term Blue Ocean.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2008, 06:15:04 PM
Catering to the lowest common denominator makes no sense. It's like reverse evolution.
I don't subscribe to hardcore darwinism. I believe that once a species, like the human race, is so successful that it faces almost no outside evolutionary pressure, then its genetic strategy changes to diversify the gene pool in preparation for some future unpredictable catastrophic event.
This is why once a society solves the problems of its own existence, it moves on to measuring how well it cares about the sick and the weak. People with serious genetic diseases are normally hosed: they're likely to be wiped out if we adhere to strict individual darwinism. But these "unworthy" or "lowest common denominator" genes are being saved by medical technology today and are not being persecuted or ignored.
Likewise, now games are learning to embrace audiences who aren't as game-hardy or game-fit. It can do this because the industry has grown and evolved to such a point that it can bring what it's learned and has to offer out of the "good 'ol boy's club" and give it to people who have as much a right to exist, and as much a right to game, as you and I. And by diversifying the base, helping those who need more help than regular gamers, and bringing more gamers into the fold now that there's no risk of diluting focus on the hardcore market (if there's one thing that E3 convinced me, it's that hardcore is NOT dead)... by doing all these things the industry is able to ensure a healthier, more adaptive, more inclusive future, and one that's more likely to weather any unexpected collapses or challenges or events that would normally wipe out a narrowly-focused (one-crop) entity.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Ian Sane on July 22, 2008, 07:12:56 PM
Quote
It can do this because the industry has grown and evolved to such a point that it can bring what it's learned and has to offer out of the "good 'ol boy's club" and give it to people who have as much a right to exist, and as much a right to game, as you and I.
Right to exist and right to game are pretty different. There is nothing wrong with skill requirements. I play guitar. I had to learn how to do that. It took time and dedication. And on top of that I was blessed with a sense of rhythm and timing. One of my brothers can't play a simple 4/4 beat on a drum. He can try all he wants but he doesn't have any rhythm or timing. He can't play an instrument. Lousy luck. I however have balance issues and can't ride a skateboard. Bummer for me. Both of us are locked out of certain leisure activities because we lack the simplest of entry level skills. And it's all stuff we can't do anything about either.
But I don't expect the skateboarding community to nerf skateboarding to the point that someone like me who can't get into it can. So why is this okay with games? Videogames aren't passive. They require some effort and some people just can't do it. And they don't have a right to ask us to bend over backwards for them. No one lets me in the skateboarding club but that's life. Though they could in theory make skateboards wider, add handlebars like a scooter and make the tricks less risky and easier to perform.
My Mom can't even play Wii Sports. She is so naturally terrible at videogames that she can't even return one ball in tennis. She can't do it. I guess Nintendo better get to work on that. With Wii Music maybe they are.
Besides it isn't as simple as just lowering the basic requirements to let more people in the club. This effectively locks out people on the other end because the bar is lowered enough that they no longer find it interesting. To me there's a maximum occupancy and to get more people in you have to kick people out. Nintendo can only do so much. Targetting the non-gamers since day one has been at the expense of the old group. How could it not be? It's not like they doubled their development staff.
Quote
This is why once a society solves the problems of its own existence, it moves on to measuring how well it cares about the sick and the weak.
Most people like what I desribed in my last post are not sick and weak. They are not "dumb" because of genetics but rather a lack of stimulation and encouragement to seek out that stimulation. Focusing on the common denominator TRAINS people to be dumb. That's why they call it dumbing down. I work for a software company. These same people who can't understand all but the simplist jokes are still smart enough to program. So obviously they have the genetic intelligence.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2008, 09:52:44 PM
But I don't expect the skateboarding community to nerf skateboarding to the point that someone like me who can't get into it can. So why is this okay with games? Videogames aren't passive. They require some effort and some people just can't do it. And they don't have a right to ask us to bend over backwards for them. No one lets me in the skateboarding club but that's life. Though they could in theory make skateboards wider, add handlebars like a scooter and make the tricks less risky and easier to perform.
No one's nerfing skateboarding, or videogames. The traditional vs. casual is a false dichotomy that does us no justice to consider in this context.
The hardcore market is just as strong as ever. I walked out of the E3 Press Conference with one conviction: hardcore games are never going away. It's ridiculous to suppose think that they're going to die out: just look at the sales numbers for companies like Valve. And look at Epic: their Mark Rein obviously has no interest in pursuing an expanded audience and how's that doing for them? GREAT! They're in no danger of going out of business.
People complained about the same thing with reality TV, how it would kill off traditional scripted shows. It's true that now reality TV has become integrated into the fabric of television programming, but despite lots of "lower common denominaotr" people getting catered to, I've rediscovered wonderful scripted TV like Ugly Betty, Burn Notice, my cousins are making me watch all of Veronica Mars, and the list goes on and on.
Doom and gloom is fun to harp about and convenient to fear. But the lowest common denominator hasn't killed off movies, tv, or even literature. I'm confident that instead of killing gaming, it'll just make it richer.
Most people like what I desribed in my last post are not sick and weak. They are not "dumb" because of genetics but rather a lack of stimulation and encouragement to seek out that stimulation. Focusing on the common denominator TRAINS people to be dumb. That's why they call it dumbing down. I work for a software company. These same people who can't understand all but the simplist jokes are still smart enough to program. So obviously they have the genetic intelligence.
Games are, almost by definition, designed to stimulate and challenge faculties. Believe it or not Ian, people don't play games they find boring. Are you still as interested in tic-tac-toe as I was in the third grade? Probably not. Some people are playing tic-tac-toe right now. There's nothing wrong with that.
Some will graduate to checkers. Some don't care at all and want to play a good game of clue. Or trivial pursuit. Some want to play a Teenage Ninja Turtle's board game (omg so awesome) or perhaps some people are actually ready for some WarHammer 40,000? Why can't videogames be like this, with something for everybody, at every level, inclusive and always with options for where people can go to find the next challenge?
People pooh-poohed Bejeweled when it came out. Now those same players who started playing simple match-3 games... they're playing Puzzle Quest, or even more impressive, Yohoho Puzzle Pirates. Seriously, I tried playing Puzzle Pirates. That game is HARDCORE. Bejeweled players learned to play a friggin MMO... and they do it better than I do.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: King of Twitch on July 22, 2008, 10:16:44 PM
Isn't Miyamoto's attention being diverted from games that really need it? He could've used the two years on Wii Music to make an epic game like Yoshi's Island 3D.
And reality tv is truly snowballing into stupidity with each new "twist". Over time this means more and more stupid tv shows are played in reruns.
Last, where do hover boards fit in? They have connectivity sure, but there's not that many good tricks and grinding is near-impossible.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2008, 10:22:57 PM
Isn't Miyamoto's attention being diverted from games that really need it? He could've used the two years on Wii Music to make an epic game like Yoshi's Island 3D.
Miyamoto spends his time the way he wants to spend his time. Don't blame casual gaming. Blame Miyamoto that he's more interested in gardening (Pikmin) than gangbanging (GTA).
And reality tv is truly snowballing into stupidity with each new "twist". Over time this means more and more stupid tv shows are played in reruns.
A guilty pleasure of mine is watching "What not to wear." This TLC reality TV is fascinating because of the issues of self-confidence and self-image that it brings up. It's amazing to see people define themselves negatively when they're stripped of their familiar wardrobe, but then re-emerge with a new (hopefully positive) self-identity once they're put in other clothes.
It's different, but I posit that things like that are exposing human emotion and issues in legitimate and exciting ways.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: King of Twitch on July 23, 2008, 12:48:01 AM
Is Pikmin really that different from GTA? After all, they run around killing things and steal stuff.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Stogi on July 23, 2008, 01:16:26 AM
One with guns...........one with cute little adorable plants.
Everything must die, but there's a huge difference when one depicts death by raping a homeless man and the other with a giant cartoon hammer.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: King of Twitch on July 23, 2008, 01:26:29 AM
But have you seen the rage in their eyes?
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 07:00:47 AM
I'd take Pikmin over Wii music any day.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 23, 2008, 07:20:11 AM
Pikmin probably does warrant an M rating. Something about Captain Olimer enslaving and abusing alien life-forms for his own ends just doesn't sit right with me.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: redgiemental on July 23, 2008, 08:59:00 AM
You could argue that they nurtures them and raises them.
Though depending on how you look at it, it could also have parallels to slavery which isn't good.
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: EasyCure on July 23, 2008, 11:55:16 AM
Pikmin probably does warrant an M rating. Something about Captain Olimer enslaving and abusing alien life-forms for his own ends just doesn't sit right with me.
It isn't like that at all! Olimar is SAVING the Pikmin! He's like prometheus, who came down and gave men fire. Olimar is a great alien entity who descends on the Pikmin planet and gives them the leadership and organizational skills to survive in a world where they are 24/7 breakfast lunch and dinner for vermicious knids and wangdoodles!
... Olimar is like Willy Wonka! Pikmin are his Oompa-Loompahs!
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: King of Twitch on July 23, 2008, 01:57:14 PM
He violates the prime directive by interfering with the internal affairs of other civilizations
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: Chozo Ghost on July 24, 2008, 07:22:26 AM
... Olimar is like Willy Wonka! Pikmin are his Oompa-Loompahs!
That would be a bad example. Willy Wonka is a disturbing messed up individual who makes people into candy. That movie gives me nightmares... it's like something Stephen King would write if he did Children's novels!
Title: Re: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 24, 2008, 12:43:44 PM
Someday Olimar will have his Pikmin army build a fleet of spaceships and take over the galaxy. He will crown himself god-emperor, and fanatical Pikmin death squads will mercilessly wipe out any resistance to his rule.
