Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Adrock on March 09, 2008, 07:21:44 PM
Title: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2008, 07:21:44 PM
Let me start by saying that I've had the game since Thursday and that I've completed 100% of the SSE in 10 hours and 6 minutes (and that's only because I couldn't find 1 trophy box in one level so I re-played it at least 6 or 7 times).
It's just dull. Really, really dull. The levels are overly simplistic and boring. The flaw is that they're designed so that every character can complete them which makes sense since there are a variety of different characters. At the same time, the entire mode fails at being fun and/or interesting. Nothing about it is especially original (i.e. choose-the-correct-door-to-proceed-puzzles, hit the switch to open a door, find the key which is is often right next to the locked door). They even recycled parts of the older levels to make the last level. That's just plain laziness. Additionally, none of the levels really take advantage of specific character attributes. For example, characters with extended jumps (i.e. Kirby, Peach etc.) never need to use them to advance. I found plowing through levels with Ike to be the easiest way to get through the mode which I completed just to get all the characters.
The enemies too are poorly designed which I don't understand. Game Arts has excellent artists (i.e. Lunar, Grandia). More importantly, they're all pretty easy to defeat even on higher difficulties. Some of the bosses offer some challenge, mainly the final boss (who has 1 super cheap instant kill move and a couple other super cheap almost instant kill moves) and Meta-Ridley.
The story... well, there isn't really a story. The characters are all kind of just there and nothing really makes sense or gets explained. Some sh*t goes down and they all just decide to team-up. But, there is a ton of CG which gives the illusion that there is a coherent plot behind it all because why would they have put all those cut-scenes in there otherwise?
Seriously though, my problem with all the CG is that it hogs disc space which is the reason the game is dual-layered which, then, is the reason why load times are so frequent. Maybe I'm spoiled, but when Melee had minimal load times, I'm having a hard time understanding why Brawl, developed some 6 years later, has so many.
I know I'm ranting, so I'll end this soon. I remember months and months ago when Smash_Brother wondered why the development team spent so much time on the adventure mode when Smash Bros. is primarily a multiplayer game. While I always wanted an expanded adventure mode, I have to agree with Smash_Brother which proves that there's a first for everything. The idea was better on paper or maybe it was just poorly executed here. Either way, think of all the characters and stages we could've gotten instead.
By the way, the game is still near perfect because Smash Bros. is inherently a multiplayer game and they did get that part right though maybe its a little too slow (maybe).
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 09, 2008, 08:13:10 PM
I have to agree SSE, is pretty lame IMO. It feels like a chore and can get pretty tedious. I really want to unlock Sonic so I am about forced to go through it, but still not what I call a good time.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: mastro on March 09, 2008, 08:50:00 PM
I find it pretty good so far but I only completed about 3 levels. I plan to only play it for like a hour at a time then go back to multi player or classic mode.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 09, 2008, 08:55:02 PM
yeah, i don't own the game yet, but i don't plan on beating the whole SSE thing at one time (which i don't think Samurai intended people to do), as fatigue is bound to set in at that point.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2008, 09:12:24 PM
I didn't beat it on a single run. I played in spurts, an hour or 2 at a time. It's still just not a lot of fun.
I forgot to mention that, on the positive side, SSE is more fun co-op. Still, I think a co-op classic mode would have worked better. Yeah, you could just set up most of the classic mode matches in multiplayer, but a co-op classic mode would make unlocking stuff a lot more fun that way.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 09, 2008, 09:26:01 PM
But I don't get it; it's only dull because of the level design? Kirby's level design was always, I thought, fairly simple, but I enjoyed the actual platforming/combat/whatever. I'm only now watching the Youtube videos of SSE (didn't want to get overexposed until the game was almost here), and the thing looks pretty fun to play, regardless of how "original" it is. But anyone who was expecting it to be the greatest side-scroller Nintendo ever produced was, I think, getting their hopes needlessly up.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 09, 2008, 09:29:36 PM
Well, I guess I'm in the minority, but I am really enjoying it. Maybe it is because I finally got my fiancee to play Smash Bros., but I am having a good time playing through it with her coop style.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
But I don't get it; it's only dull because of the level design? Kirby's level design was always, I thought, fairly simple, but I enjoyed the actual platforming/combat/whatever. I'm only now watching the Youtube videos of SSE (didn't want to get overexposed until the game was almost here), and the thing looks pretty fun to play, regardless of how "original" it is. But anyone who was expecting it to be the greatest side-scroller Nintendo ever produced was, I think, getting their hopes needlessly up.
1. It's not only dull because of level design. It's dull for a variety of reasons which I mentioned above. To summarize, the only thing that was driving me to finish the mode was that I figured it was the fastest way to unlock characters/stages/music. In any game, I think the quality of the experience should drive people to keep playing. For example, I didn't finish RE4 to unlock Assignment Ada. I finished it because the game was awesome. It was fun so I wanted to keep playing.
2. SSE isn't really like Kirby though, to be honest, the last one played was The Crystal Shards on N64 so maybe my memory of the game is hazy. In any case, Kirby games are designed usually with only Kirby in mind. I would imagine that building a beat-em-up/platformer game around 30+ characters is entirely different. Sakurai/Game Arts certainly gave the concept their best shot. I just don't think that Smash Bros. gameplay is very well suited for this kind of thing.
3. I didn't expect it to be "the greatest platformer Nintendo ever produced" nor did I even imply anywhere near as much. Regardless, something doesn't have be the "the greatest anything" to be enjoyable.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 09, 2008, 10:03:25 PM
Fine, you really can't argue with someone's opinion (especially since I haven't played the thing yet), but they were never gonna put more stages/characters in place of SSE. They knew Brawl needed a strong single-player mode (I appreciate their putting on in as I dont get to do multi-player as often as I'd like), and so they made sure it was a full "game" and not just a side distraction. It was also a strong selling point to people who'd otherwise think the game's Melee 2.0, which more stages and characters (which again, were not coming anyway) would not have helped combat.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 09, 2008, 10:12:04 PM
I'm loving SSE, except for all the cheap traps that make me go "Oh, Sakurai!" ='D
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 09, 2008, 10:27:03 PM
What annoys me a lot about the SSE mode is that it has no ending...Seriously, you beat the boss, the worlds are restored, cue credits...Throughout the game you get these exciting cross overs and team ups and some great cutscenes. And it just ends...No final scene with the characters, no resolution, NOTHING. The annoying part is that they hired the writer of FFVII to create this mess.
Here's how I would've ended it: After the characters defeat the final boss, they return to the stadium and are treated to a hero's welcome. As the crowd is going wild and confetti is raining down you see the characters saluting the audience, giving each other handshakes and just plain celebrating their victory.
As the camera pans out you see the entire cast and they slowly turn into trophies. Then the stadium morphs into a child's room. You learn that the SSE mode was really a kid playing with his figures, a tribute to SSB 64's theme. Then the kid slowly backs out and closes the door. Cue credits.
Now, how hard would it have been for Sakurai and the famed FF writer to create this ending? What's even sadder is that SEGA made a proper ending for Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games, even though it isn't a story oriented game!
What...the...hell?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2008, 10:35:37 PM
Quote
Mikintosh wrote: It was also a strong selling point to people who'd otherwise think the game's Melee 2.0...
I wouldn't say SSE is a strong selling point. Smash Bros. fans would have bought the game, Melee 2.0 or not. However, if someone didn't like Smash Bros. before, I doubt the expanded Adventure Mode would really change their minds. Also, without having played it, I don't think you can make the argument that "they made sure it was a full 'game' and not just a side distraction." In fact, I would actually say the opposite, it felt like a bonus. And I think if you ask most Smash Bros. fans, they would choose to have more characters/stages than SSE because characters/stages are fun for years.
Quote
pap64 wrote: What annoys me a lot about the SSE mode is that it has no ending
It didn't really have a story so the lack of an ending didn't bother me as much as it probably would have otherwise. :)
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 09, 2008, 10:44:57 PM
Yeah SSE sucks. Big surprise too, since single player Smash has always sucked.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 09, 2008, 11:24:54 PM
7.9
no customizable skins and Link doesn't talk
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 09, 2008, 11:32:12 PM
pap64 wrote: What annoys me a lot about the SSE mode is that it has no ending
It didn't really have a story so the lack of an ending didn't bother me as much as it probably would have otherwise. :)
Even if the story was non-existent they could have at least shown us a congratulatory screen or have one last scene with the characters (and no, the scene where the characters stare at the sunset does not count because they are in trophy mode).
Like I mentioned earlier, Mario and Sonic does this. After you complete all of the circuits you are treated to a scene where all the characters march and salute the audience. Its a celebration scene which is satisfactory and fun to see. Why couldn't Brawl do that?
Take Star Wars A New Hope for example. Imagine if after Luke destroys the Death Star, the screen goes black and the credits roll. The audience was stripped of a scene in which we see the characters celebrating their victory. This is what happened in Brawl. Couldn't we see the characters one last time, NOT in trophy mode?
I know I am making a big issue out of this, but it annoys me that Sakurai hired the guy that wrote the story for FFVII and the best they could do was this.
Its a sad day when a fanfic writer can do a better job with a story than the actual creators...
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 10, 2008, 12:27:15 AM
Quote
I know I am making a big issue out of this, but it annoys me that Sakurai hired the guy that wrote the story for FFVII and the best they could do was this.
Wasn't the best plot Kazushige Nojima came up with originally about some of the characters riding on a bus to a stadium? I can't expect much from someone when they seriously just don't seem to care.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 10, 2008, 12:52:01 AM
I know I am making a big issue out of this, but it annoys me that Sakurai hired the guy that wrote the story for FFVII and the best they could do was this.
Wasn't the best plot Kazushige Nojima came up with originally about some of the characters riding on a bus to a stadium? I can't expect much from someone when they seriously just don't seem to care.
I think that was Sakurai's take on the story. According to the interview Sakurai tried to come up with a story by himself, but couldn't find a way to bring these characters together and a storyline to wrap it all in, so he hired the writer as support. in Sakurai's own words, one could do what the other one couldn't.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ThePerm on March 10, 2008, 01:38:09 AM
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 10, 2008, 02:04:51 AM
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.
Um, there's a difference between silent movies and the SSE mode. Silent movies have simpler stories which are conveyed by acted scenes and facial expressions. The SSE story, though, is convoluted due to the lack of clear details. Had we not gotten the basic details before the game's release we would have no idea what is going on.
Though, it seems that people either love or hate the SEE mode. Many reviewers are quick to point out that the Brawl doesn't work as well as a platformer engine. However, some fans seem to love this a lot, just as there are fans that hate this. Some friends of mine absolutely hated the mode and decided to unlock the characters by meeting the other requirements.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Sessha on March 10, 2008, 02:29:30 AM
There were definite problems with the SSE, like the last boss being the cheapest bastard ever. But overall I liked it. The end was a bit tedious but it was a step in the right direction. And I don't know if I'm the only one but I loved the cutscenes.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 10, 2008, 02:34:11 AM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 10, 2008, 03:42:35 AM
I'm liking it so far. The gameplay isn't great but it isn't bad, and I absolutely love the cutscenes. Diddy pulling Fox by the collar is comedic gold.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Dasmos on March 10, 2008, 03:52:40 AM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 10, 2008, 04:16:28 AM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.
Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2008, 04:37:10 AM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.
Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.
I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on March 10, 2008, 04:47:12 AM
The last stage is worth about 30% of the completion value, and just has you fight all the characters and replay portions of each stage. It takes a few hours, and you're playing something you already did.
Surely, this was unnecessary. That time definitely would have been better fit elsewhere. And online multi-man Brawl. That mode is the most rediculous of them all. No one I've ever talked to enjoyed multi-man melee, and multi-man brawl is no better. Did they ever take feed-back about those two sections?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 10, 2008, 10:50:08 AM
Beat 20 enemies in Cruel Brawl to unlock Megaman, lulz.
As for SSE, while it was cute for one play-through, I can safely say axing it in favor of more mutliplayer content would've been preferable, especially if they reminded Ganondorf that a sword is also usable as a weapon instead of just waving it around to insult your opponents.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 10, 2008, 11:39:37 AM
Beat 20 enemies in Cruel Brawl to unlock Megaman, lulz.
As for SSE, while it was cute for one play-through, I can safely say axing it in favor of more mutliplayer content would've been preferable, especially if they reminded Ganondorf that a sword is also usable as a weapon instead of just waving it around to insult your opponents.
They. Weren't. Going. To.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 10, 2008, 11:44:00 AM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.
Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.
I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.
Well, as I said before, they were always planning a single player mode, so you may not like what they come up with, but the idea that the people who were tapped for SSE were going to work on multi-player content if only the stars had aligned is probably untrue and getting to be really tired to listen to. It's part of the game, no use wondering about what could have been (which wouldn't have been anyway).
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 10, 2008, 12:26:29 PM
They had a team of over 100 people and worked on it for two and a half years, if they'd wanted no clones then we'd have no clones, if they'd wanted more characters we'd have more characters.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 10, 2008, 01:10:50 PM
They had a team of over 100 people and worked on it for two and a half years, if they'd wanted no clones then we'd have no clones, if they'd wanted more characters we'd have more characters.
Unfortunately, I'd have to agree here. Though, I think that is the disheartening part of it all. Sakurai had to have some idea of what the fans wanted, and ultimately, aren't they the ones that matter the most? Sakurai should've put aside his personal feelings in favor of the feeling of the fans.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 10, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
Cap and I unlocked Sonic by racing off the stage in a 1 man stock 300 times.
I'm not kidding. Took far less time than SSE would've.
I did that a few times too. Finally got to the point where I unlocked captain falcon. IN regards to the SSE, it seems like a mish mash of things that make no sense and has no cohesion, I really enjoy how the cutscenes have an exciting moment happening like you being surrounded by tons of enemies, or an epic chase, or something which is then followed by a shoehorned 2D level that really doesn't relate to what happened in the cutscene until you get to the certain points in it where another cutscene comes in. On the flip side I do enjoy Mission mode and classic mode.
Yeah, because no video game has ever had cut-scenes to set the mood than have the actual playable sections have a more of a...video game feel out of necessity. Why was everyone expecting a Bioware-level story for this? Super Smash Brothers is great, but it does not aspire to Kingdom Hearts greatness in that area.
I wasn't expecting it to be great, but I sure didn't expect it to be this long and tedious either. It does frustrate me because the reources put into the SSE could have been divided up amongst other areas of the game. Also you are right cutscenes do set the mood in games, but in SSE it has little to no connection with what you are doing when you start to play.
Well, as I said before, they were always planning a single player mode, so you may not like what they come up with, but the idea that the people who were tapped for SSE were going to work on multi-player content if only the stars had aligned is probably untrue and getting to be really tired to listen to. It's part of the game, no use wondering about what could have been (which wouldn't have been anyway).
Once again, it is priorities and delegation of resources, those people could have worked on other content as well. Which is why I'll be happy when Sakurai isn't involved with the franchise anymore, he likes to forget that the series is about multiplayer first and foremost, not expanded adventure modes. But of course people will suck down anything he throws their way and defend it like there was no other option when there in fact WAS.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 10, 2008, 01:16:13 PM
I like SSE so far, but it does lack heart for the reasons mentioned.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2008, 01:31:07 PM
This game sounds like it's so self-destructive.
The Wii fad is over.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ThePerm on March 10, 2008, 01:37:39 PM
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.
Um, there's a difference between silent movies and the SSE mode. Silent movies have simpler stories which are conveyed by acted scenes and facial expressions. The SSE story, though, is convoluted due to the lack of clear details. Had we not gotten the basic details before the game's release we would have no idea what is going on.
Though, it seems that people either love or hate the SEE mode. Many reviewers are quick to point out that the Brawl doesn't work as well as a platformer engine. However, some fans seem to love this a lot, just as there are fans that hate this. Some friends of mine absolutely hated the mode and decided to unlock the characters by meeting the other requirements.
Silent movies do not necessarily have simple stories, some of them are extremely complex, like the Molochmaschine scene in Metropolis, unless you understood the allusion to what Moloch was in 1927 you couldn't even guess what they imply in that scene. As far as the cutscenes go, sure some of them are short, some of them have quite the loadtime, but one thing is for sure, is that when they play they have all my favorite video game characters doing a bunch of cool stuff. That i can't complain about. I suppose they could have done some of the cinema's in real time, but I can bet that to geth them to look that good than they would have to have spent more time working on the game.
I'm happy with SSE because if it was just multi-player than it would kinda suck. The game is still smash bros, and without sse it would just be melee online. Or barely online as its been for me. The series of smash bros has grown in popularity since its inception. There are a few people that were diehard fans of the n64 edition, but lemme tell you, when i first played the original I thought it was simply decent. After Melee however more people became diehard fans of the franchise. I have played tons and tons of fighting games in my life, I've loved them, but i have to say iv never played a full package. To say that the single player sucks because its not the best platformer in the world is ignoring that its a fighting game. Its no super mario world or castlevania, but it sure as hell is better than alot of mediocre trash that arrived on super nintendo. That being said, there has been a gradual improvement over the single player modes in the smash bros series, to say cut it out entirely on the next one or this one ignores the fact that by the next one it could be worth your time playing.
Its kinda strange how the game is so fun to play, but even stranger that i start off as an expert. There was absolutely no learning curve. The only thing that throws me off a little is Links boomerang is nerfed and that now I can be more dominat with bowser.
Also, as far as Ganondorf goes, just sounds like a bunch of bitching to me. Ganondorf doesn't have to be in the game at all. I never cared if his moves were like Captain Falcons, i just like his purply magical goodness. Ganondorf never carried a sword in Ocarina of Time, when melee came out WindWaker was not out, and didn't have his two swords, there was the video of him with the Zweihander, but that was never an official game, and was merely a demo. Not everyone is aware of that video, people who were aware never cared im sure, and liked Ganondorf just the same. To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee. Ganondorf had a sword in TP, but they really didn't change any other characters movesets much since the last game. Don't expect Ganondorf to ever change unless they do something like i talked about in a previous thread where he has different stances alá Mortal Kombat Deception
As far as Sakurai goes, I had no idea who he was until he quit a few years ago. It seems as though with this game his status as director has been elevated, and thats maybe thats what he wanted when he left. Miyamoto gets credit for everything Nintendo makes, its at least nice to see someone get some credit. However, with credit comes flack too. I think i can agree however that his involvement in the next game should be less. As someone who's played a ton of fighting games, iv learned whats more rounded. I thinksit would be great to see someone from Aki/Asmik the creators of Toukon Retsudon(and the GOOD n64 wcw/wwf games). They made their games that included every wrestler 60+, their signature moves, character editors..oppertunities that were missed in this game.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2008, 01:48:53 PM
I guess that's it. Nintendo's Japanese game makers don't know how to make core games anymore.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 10, 2008, 04:51:38 PM
To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee.
How many people main the same person game-to-game? Not me.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ThePerm on March 10, 2008, 05:02:55 PM
Well, i'm still really kickass with link, of the games online i played so far, iv whipped ass. Then again I could main Bowser this game.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on March 10, 2008, 05:05:37 PM
I'm going with Ice Climbers, Dedede, Diddy, and Ness, I think. Maybe throw in Bowser. For some reason, I don't like Mario any more, but he tried to fit in there. Diddy replaced him.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 10, 2008, 06:01:23 PM
You guys don't watch silent movies do you? I think SSE is great. This is a game i like, i'd play onlne more, but it barely works. I've tried like 20 times to brawl with people, but its only worked 4 times. And of the 4 times it was with the same people. I haven't even gotten to friend code brawls.
Um, there's a difference between silent movies and the SSE mode. Silent movies have simpler stories which are conveyed by acted scenes and facial expressions. The SSE story, though, is convoluted due to the lack of clear details. Had we not gotten the basic details before the game's release we would have no idea what is going on.
Though, it seems that people either love or hate the SEE mode. Many reviewers are quick to point out that the Brawl doesn't work as well as a platformer engine. However, some fans seem to love this a lot, just as there are fans that hate this. Some friends of mine absolutely hated the mode and decided to unlock the characters by meeting the other requirements.
Silent movies do not necessarily have simple stories, some of them are extremely complex, like the Molochmaschine scene in Metropolis, unless you understood the allusion to what Moloch was in 1927 you couldn't even guess what they imply in that scene. As far as the cutscenes go, sure some of them are short, some of them have quite the loadtime, but one thing is for sure, is that when they play they have all my favorite video game characters doing a bunch of cool stuff. That i can't complain about. I suppose they could have done some of the cinema's in real time, but I can bet that to geth them to look that good than they would have to have spent more time working on the game.
I'm happy with SSE because if it was just multi-player than it would kinda suck. The game is still smash bros, and without sse it would just be melee online. Or barely online as its been for me. The series of smash bros has grown in popularity since its inception. There are a few people that were diehard fans of the n64 edition, but lemme tell you, when i first played the original I thought it was simply decent. After Melee however more people became diehard fans of the franchise. I have played tons and tons of fighting games in my life, I've loved them, but i have to say iv never played a full package. To say that the single player sucks because its not the best platformer in the world is ignoring that its a fighting game. Its no super mario world or castlevania, but it sure as hell is better than alot of mediocre trash that arrived on super nintendo. That being said, there has been a gradual improvement over the single player modes in the smash bros series, to say cut it out entirely on the next one or this one ignores the fact that by the next one it could be worth your time playing.
Its kinda strange how the game is so fun to play, but even stranger that i start off as an expert. There was absolutely no learning curve. The only thing that throws me off a little is Links boomerang is nerfed and that now I can be more dominat with bowser.
Also, as far as Ganondorf goes, just sounds like a bunch of bitching to me. Ganondorf doesn't have to be in the game at all. I never cared if his moves were like Captain Falcons, i just like his purply magical goodness. Ganondorf never carried a sword in Ocarina of Time, when melee came out WindWaker was not out, and didn't have his two swords, there was the video of him with the Zweihander, but that was never an official game, and was merely a demo. Not everyone is aware of that video, people who were aware never cared im sure, and liked Ganondorf just the same. To change his movesets and give him a sword would anger fans who liked playing as him in melee. Ganondorf had a sword in TP, but they really didn't change any other characters movesets much since the last game. Don't expect Ganondorf to ever change unless they do something like i talked about in a previous thread where he has different stances alá Mortal Kombat Deception
As far as Sakurai goes, I had no idea who he was until he quit a few years ago. It seems as though with this game his status as director has been elevated, and thats maybe thats what he wanted when he left. Miyamoto gets credit for everything Nintendo makes, its at least nice to see someone get some credit. However, with credit comes flack too. I think i can agree however that his involvement in the next game should be less. As someone who's played a ton of fighting games, iv learned whats more rounded. I thinksit would be great to see someone from Aki/Asmik the creators of Toukon Retsudon(and the GOOD n64 wcw/wwf games). They made their games that included every wrestler 60+, their signature moves, character editors..oppertunities that were missed in this game.
Eww, no. The second someone starts mixing wrestling with my Nintendo is the day I sell all my gaming crap and buy a very expensive book. And the character editor...fine (only for create-a-character mode, and no stat changing because that'd destroy the game balance), but...signature moves? Aren't all the characters' moves "signature moves"? What else do you want? And if I hear "I dunno, I just wanted...more", then I'm just gonna have to hit somebody.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 10, 2008, 06:16:08 PM
BATISTA BOMB
~~~~~
ZSS would receive a breast enlargement. I'd guaruntee it.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: darknight06 on March 10, 2008, 08:50:34 PM
People expecting too much and then getting burned when the final product comes out. Good thing I didn't go salivating over this game for the last 2 and a half years, I'm enjoying it that much more for it. I'm not seeing what's so bad about SSE. It's everything adventure was in Melee and then some. I've particularly enjoyed the DK section of it.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Ceric on March 10, 2008, 10:34:13 PM
I just started it I agree. I am almost to the point where I'll just spend the 8 hours playing the coputer in versus to get the character I want. This is like plain jello. It has everything to be great but the flavoring. A combo count would have done worlds of good in my book and now I'm stuck somewhere that won't let me down and it has no way to proceed that I can see. Plus, this is my first run through, I haven't met any secret characters yet and I've gone through every door I can find. I dread having to go a second time just for that. Also Pikachu makes more sense how they set it up then Yoshi and link.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on March 10, 2008, 11:13:42 PM
You find the secret characters after you beat the game. Stages with unfound things are marked with those flags, and once you beat the game, when the secret character stages are added, a flag is added.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Ceric on March 10, 2008, 11:17:35 PM
Arg... Then it be quicker for me to just play the matches. I need to anyway to get some items.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 10, 2008, 11:27:14 PM
I just started it I agree. I am almost to the point where I'll just spend the 8 hours playing the coputer in versus to get the character I want. This is like plain jello. It has everything to be great but the flavoring. A combo count would have done worlds of good in my book and now I'm stuck somewhere that won't let me down and it has no way to proceed that I can see. Plus, this is my first run through, I haven't met any secret characters yet and I've gone through every door I can find. I dread having to go a second time just for that. Also Pikachu makes more sense how they set it up then Yoshi and link.
What does a combo count have to do with anything?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Bill Aurion on March 11, 2008, 12:09:56 AM
I've found myself waiting to start hating the SSE based on everyone's impressions, but no go...I still love it... ^_^
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 11, 2008, 01:39:20 AM
So in the Great Maze, do I have to win every encounter in the Maze to get to the end? If I do, that's pretty retarded.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 11, 2008, 02:00:49 AM
Yes you do, and yes it is retarded.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 11, 2008, 08:32:43 AM
That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
SAKURAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Ceric on March 11, 2008, 09:17:03 AM
I just started it I agree. I am almost to the point where I'll just spend the 8 hours playing the coputer in versus to get the character I want. This is like plain jello. It has everything to be great but the flavoring. A combo count would have done worlds of good in my book and now I'm stuck somewhere that won't let me down and it has no way to proceed that I can see. Plus, this is my first run through, I haven't met any secret characters yet and I've gone through every door I can find. I dread having to go a second time just for that. Also Pikachu makes more sense how they set it up then Yoshi and link.
What does a combo count have to do with anything?
Like in the Devil May Cry 4 demo I found it fun to try to get my hit combo up. Just little things like that. I also don't like the whole post-apocalyptic thing going on. Its like this world was ravaged before anyone arrive. Then the lack of any real Nintendo locations. Just in the end I think it could have been done a lot better reach back into the lore of Nintendo more. Though I'm starting to think the Melee is the purest of the smashes.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 11, 2008, 09:21:49 AM
I have barely touched the Subspace Emissary, but I have many of the characters unlocked. Subspace is a good diversion from the original game, but it still feels like adventure mode with really silly enemy designs.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 11, 2008, 08:51:23 PM
Alright I beat SEE, it was pretty good. Other than the first two stages and the Great Maze was bullshit. The ending kicked ass!
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 12, 2008, 01:05:19 AM
I just got my copy today (I'll write a post on the "I Played Brawl" thread), but no, SSE totally rocks. And the character designs are great; more interesting than stomping on Goombas and Koopas all the time (tho the DK part with them was just fine).
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 12, 2008, 02:55:21 AM
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2008, 03:16:54 AM
im not saying mix wrestling into the game, im saying having a game with more characters, all their specials, some character editors, basically they were a company that did everything right, the only downside were good n64 graphics on n64. Otherwise, if you wanted it..then it was probably in there. Wrestling is pretty deep, so its hard to do.
like for instance. Say i wanted to play as the wrstler Sting, well sting has had multiple persona's and costumes, well if i wanted to switch then they'd be there, and theyd be there for like 60-65 characters, each wrestler has a set of moves that they do, and those would all be there as well. The game actually gameplay wise was similar to smash bros in that its just combinations of a and b and how you held them and what direction you pressed.
http://ign64.ign.com/articles/164/164737p1.html
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: darknight06 on March 12, 2008, 01:54:12 PM
Smash is nothing like AKI's wrestling games.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 02:10:24 PM
SSE is a waste of time and a waste of resources for the game.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 02:20:42 PM
SSE is a waste of time and a waste of resources for the game.
Nah, I loved the cinema scenes and had fun when having to kick several easy enemies asses at once.
To beat the SSE one time through took me about 7 1/2 hours. It was a good experience other than the maze. The final Boss was hard and extremely cheap some times. Reminiscent of stupid Contra bosses, but was a really cool boss and battle anyway.
After about 11 hours I have unlocked all characters and stages. Took me 3 days. That is pretty fast for me. This game is amazing.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 12, 2008, 02:42:57 PM
I AGREE WITH MASHIRO
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 02:46:30 PM
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 04:50:41 PM
What's so amazing about it?
I'm sorry but I find myself not impressed by the SSE at all. Yeah the cinemas were cool but pointless just like the mode itself.
It builds itself up to be something so epic and yet there is no solid story, no reason behind the events that unfold, nothing . . . it's just a bunch of soulless eye candy.
Are we supposed to be impressed? I'm not.
For all the delays and hype and well everything surrounding the game I am left feeling sorely disappointed.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 04:56:15 PM
Well first I wasn't expecting much and got a lot. It turned out to be a pointlessly cinematic brawler with no worthy story line. It was fun. Not amazing no, the cinema scenes were pretty amazing and awesome though. Like the first donkey kong and diddy kong one and the scene with the giant gun coming out of the sphere and Kirby flies through it.
Was it disappointing? Ya probably for those who expected much more than I did. haha But it was worth it for me for the little entertainment I got from beating the **** out of weak enemies, and the fun I got from the cinema scenes.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 12, 2008, 04:57:32 PM
You know what, I really didn't mind the SSE until the very end of it. The final boss and the great maze were ass. The rest of it was fun just because it had pairings of characters you never see together. There was some good humor thrown in and some epic feeling moments. The part that killed it was the tedium of it all and the terrible choices they made with regards to coop mode.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 04:58:39 PM
You know what, I really didn't mind the SSE until the very end of it. The final boss and the great maze were ass. The rest of it was fun just because it had pairings of characters you never see together. There was some good humor thrown in and some epic feeling moments. The part that killed it was the tedium of it all and the terrible choices they made with regards to coop mode.
LOL that scene with Peach and her umbrella in front of the turrets was HILARIOUS. So was the cup of tea scene that followed.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 12, 2008, 05:03:42 PM
You know what, I really didn't mind the SSE until the very end of it...The rest of it was fun just because it had pairings of characters you never see together. There was some good humor thrown in and some epic feeling moments.
All of the good things you just mentioned were in the cutscenes.
The final boss and the great maze were ass...The part that killed it was the tedium of it all and the terrible choices they made with regards to coop mode.
This is your description of the actual gameplay
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 12, 2008, 05:08:41 PM
SSE aint no Viewtiful Joe
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: vudu on March 12, 2008, 05:22:19 PM
Red Hot Rumble aint no Brawl
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 05:25:15 PM
SSE should have been one giant CG movie and once you were done watching it everything would have been unlocked so you can actually have some fun with the game =D
I shouldn't just knock on SSE though because truth be told the game doesn't feel like it's all that it was supposed to be.
Just my (sad) opinion.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 12, 2008, 07:27:04 PM
I DISAGREE WITH MASHIRO
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mikintosh on March 12, 2008, 07:38:19 PM
SSE should have been one giant CG movie and once you were done watching it everything would have been unlocked so you can actually have some fun with the game =D
I shouldn't just knock on SSE though because truth be told the game doesn't feel like it's all that it was supposed to be.
Just my (sad) opinion.
Yeah, 'cause Smash Bros. with only 21 characters is no fun at all. How many characters were there total in Melee? What, only a couple more than that? Huh.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 07:56:52 PM
I had far more fun with Melee than I am with Brawl ::shrugs::
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 12, 2008, 08:21:12 PM
I had far more fun with Melee than I am with Brawl ::shrugs::
Don't worry, just some people get grumpy and feel the need to defend every aspect of the game. Perfection must be created in their head to further their enjoyment.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 08:25:44 PM
I had far more fun with Melee than I am with Brawl ::shrugs::
Don't worry, just some people get grumpy and feel the need to defend every aspect of the game. Perfection must be created in their head to further their enjoyment.
THAT'S what I did for Melee. I feel this one is authentically better. SSE is far from perfect, but it isn't bad and I had fun.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 12, 2008, 08:26:05 PM
I had far more fun with Melee than I am with Brawl ::shrugs::
Right there with you. I think the problem is the core of the game was neglected for the trimmings.
At the time of release, Melee was so full of stuff to do it felt just as massive as Brawl. However the core of the game was clearly the focus, everything else was gravy. It was a huge upgrade from the original and catapulted the series into the position it sits today. Ignoring all the hype, the simple fact that Melee plays better than Brawl is enough to make me disappointed.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 12, 2008, 08:37:01 PM
I had far more fun with Melee than I am with Brawl ::shrugs::
Don't worry, just some people get grumpy and feel the need to defend every aspect of the game. Perfection must be created in their head to further their enjoyment.
THAT'S what I did for Melee. I feel this one is authentically better. SSE is far from perfect, but it isn't bad and I had fun.
Well I think Brawl is far superior to Melee, though some of the choices are a bit too confusing (THough unlike Mr. Jack I prefer the speed drop). Also I can't help but feel Brawl is turning into Halo for Nintendo systems, a new game every few years that isn't that big of a step up from the last but has "more" things.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on March 12, 2008, 08:38:07 PM
Ignoring all the hype, the simple fact that Melee plays better than Brawl is enough to make me disappointed.
How are we defining "plays better?" Cause I disagree with your statement on face value. Brawl has the rhythm of a heartbeat; each fight pulses as it progresses. I love the core game that's there, I don't know what else is needed.
I also don't think the new game has to radically change the original formula. It's not as huge of a step as Melee was from the 64 version, but we jumped a mighty leap in 3-D gaming from 32 and 64 bit to GC, Xbox, and PS2.
I think Brawl's levels are much better, too.
Um, and we may need to move this conversation to a different thread.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 09:00:19 PM
Ignoring all the hype, the simple fact that Melee plays better than Brawl is enough to make me disappointed.
How are we defining "plays better?" Cause I disagree with your statement on face value. Brawl has the rhythm of a heartbeat; each fight pulses as it progresses. I love the core game that's there, I don't know what else is needed.
Well I am definitely better at Melee then I am at Brawl. Brawl I seem to have been evened out, I am having a hard time finding my main character I like to play as. I suppose that could be what Mr. Jack is talking about. However I hear my main character from Melee was Fox. I here he was overpowered/cheap, so that maybe why I felt so good with him :P
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 09:08:43 PM
I was about to type something but . . . I'm gonna make a new thread as to not derail this one.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on March 12, 2008, 09:17:06 PM
I'm sorry but I find myself not impressed by the SSE at all. Yeah the cinemas were cool but pointless just like the mode itself.
It builds itself up to be something so epic and yet there is no solid story, no reason behind the events that unfold, nothing . . . it's just a bunch of soulless eye candy.
Are we supposed to be impressed? I'm not.
For all the delays and hype and well everything surrounding the game I am left feeling sorely disappointed.
I agree mostly though I'm only really disappointed in SSE (not sure if you meant that you were sorely disappointed in the game as a whole). I would like to see a cross-over game adventure again some time in the future, but I suppose Smash Bros. isn't the game to do it in. SSE doesn't feel like a separate game, it feels like an extra mode that got too much attention and thus, was a waste of development resources.
In the end, Miyamoto was right. I guess there's a reason he's almost unanimously regarded as the greatest game designer ever.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Adrock on April 11, 2008, 05:11:03 AM
So I actually went to the Smash Bros. Dojo for the first time in a while. April 10th's update was an explanation of the Subspace Emissary's plot.
FAIL!
Yet another reason the mode sucks. By Sakurai's own admission "there may have been some story-related items that didn’t fully make sense" so he goes on to explain some backstory that you couldn't get from the cut-scenes. You shouldn't need supplementary information to make sense of a story. It should have been complete on its own, except it wasn't so it fails.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: nickmitch on April 11, 2008, 10:55:13 AM
Some of the things that were in that post could easily be derived from the story that was there. A lot of other things seemed irrelevant. The gunship, the Ancient Minister's disguise and the part about Mr. G&W didn't seem to matter.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on April 11, 2008, 12:01:10 PM
Some of the things that were in that post could easily be derived from the story that was there. A lot of other things seemed irrelevant. The gunship, the Ancient Minister's disguise and the part about Mr. G&W didn't seem to matter.
If they could easily be derived, why did he feel the need to give us the whole plot?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2008, 01:22:26 PM
Yeah, that's proof beyond all else that the SSE was a waste of time and energy. "Soulless eye candy" is pretty apt.
The funny part is that, years ago, I imagined a crossover between the Nintendo universe and another, and in that crossover, I imagined Bowser and Ganondorf working together, but there would be dialogue between them, not this "silent-movie-interpreted-entirely-by-gestures" nonsense. I also imagined there would be a dark version of Peach...eerie.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on April 11, 2008, 01:27:37 PM
Damn you guys I really liked the cinema scenes and did enjoy a fair portion of the gameplay.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 11, 2008, 02:25:29 PM
Some of the things that were in that post could easily be derived from the story that was there. A lot of other things seemed irrelevant. The gunship, the Ancient Minister's disguise and the part about Mr. G&W didn't seem to matter.
If they could easily be derived, why did he feel the need to give us the whole plot?
Cuz he feels he did a terrible job of delivering it.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2008, 03:15:02 PM
Damn you guys I really liked the cinema scenes and did enjoy a fair portion of the gameplay.
I thought it was cool myself (I actually liked the maze at the end, heh), but I'd have scrapped it if they could've instead given us something which would apply to multiplayer.
I mean, SSE was neat, but we spent MAYBE a week playing SSE. We'll spend the next 6 YEARS playing the multiplayer.
Which one necessitates more attention?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 11, 2008, 03:15:56 PM
Mario Kart.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2008, 03:43:42 PM
Actually, the correct answer was "Online play".
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_insanolord on April 11, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
I don't think there was anything they could have done during the development of the game that would have improved the current situation with the online play.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 11, 2008, 03:52:30 PM
That's a strong point. Fighting games are just doomd onrine.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 11, 2008, 03:57:46 PM
I actually liked the corny story, and I got most of it from the silent movie acting just fine. What I didn't like was the multitude of cheap deaths from the levels and bosses. Maybe I shouldn't have played through it on Hard mode, but I just didn't think I could live with myself if I took the easy way out. I refused to even use stickers until the Great Maze finally completely wore down my resolve and I just wanted it to end.
By the way, I presume there are slightly different movies based on the choices you make. Is there any way to unlock the versions I didn't get without replaying the whole thing?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on April 11, 2008, 04:45:09 PM
That's a strong point. Fighting games are just doomd onrine.
Funny you mention that...
From what I've learned, Google is in the process of rolling out a new type of NAT transversal tech which completely obliterates the need for a proxy service.
Right now, playing through Gamespy's services means our connection goes through their servers because it acts as an intermediary in order to keep the connection alive. Otherwise, the connection couldn't be maintained due to firewall issues, since reaching a device on the other side of a firewall is immensely difficult.
With what Google is offering, the need for the intermediary really DOES go away, meaning the connection would be going between the two player's Wiis instead of having to pass through Gamespy or any other service.
Needless to say, this type of setup would be godly for online gaming and voice chat alike. If we had this instead of Gamespy, SSBB matches would probably be almost completely lag free from across the country, no question.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 11, 2008, 05:29:33 PM
What makes you think Nintendo will take advantage of such a thing within the next 5 years?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: vudu on April 11, 2008, 05:43:15 PM
Blind faith and the love of being let down.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Svevan on April 11, 2008, 06:30:29 PM
I actually liked the corny story, and I got most of it from the silent movie acting just fine. What I didn't like was the multitude of cheap deaths from the levels and bosses. Maybe I shouldn't have played through it on Hard mode, but I just didn't think I could live with myself if I took the easy way out. I refused to even use stickers until the Great Maze finally completely wore down my resolve and I just wanted it to end.
By the way, I presume there are slightly different movies based on the choices you make. Is there any way to unlock the versions I didn't get without replaying the whole thing?
I've tried to go back to the levels and play them the differently to get the different cut scenes, but to no avail. I actually started over for them and then promptly gave up and went back to multiplayer.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on April 12, 2008, 07:03:23 PM
You can get all the cutscenes by making alternative choices. The last choice you've got to make involves Meta-Knight and Lucario, and no cutscenes after that one can be altered by choices.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Arbok on April 12, 2008, 08:52:01 PM
Well I guess I'm one of the few who actually really likes the SSE. Me and my sister have already beaten it, start to finish, twice and are working our way up the difficulties (Intense is... quite interesting so far).
*shrugs* I guess I have always been a fan of mindless beat-em ups like Final Fight and what not, as has my sister, so the SSE feels right at home to us.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on April 15, 2008, 04:27:02 PM
You can get all the cutscenes by making alternative choices. The last choice you've got to make involves Meta-Knight and Lucario, and no cutscenes after that one can be altered by choices.
Immediately after beating that level, I replayed it, chose the other character, and got no cutscene at all. It seems that you need to keep an old save handy when these choices come up. If only I had known that from the beginning, I wouldn't be so annoyed by it.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: vudu on April 15, 2008, 04:28:13 PM
What are all the choices you can make? Obviously, the first is which princess you save from Petey. What are the others?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on April 15, 2008, 05:48:12 PM
No, the first choice is Kirby and Mario. After that, you've got to pick who to save. Beyond that, I think the only one is Meta-Knight and Lucario.
Essentially, there's very little difference with two of the choices, but the cage choice affects a few fights down the road when near the time four heroes meet up.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: vudu on April 15, 2008, 05:52:34 PM
So in my game I chose Mario. If I had chosen Kirby would only the short scene of the winner un-trophying the loser have changed, or would Mario and Kirby have switched parties for the first half of the game? I'm confused as to the extent of the branching paths.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on April 15, 2008, 07:07:39 PM
The cutscene would have changed. That's it. And in order to unlock all the cutscenes, you have to do that. The only choice that has any real effect on the story is the cage choice, and even then, it's only at one point later on, where you play a different lady and play as a different set of heroes.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Halbred on April 16, 2008, 04:34:23 PM
I like Subspace, but I'm stuck at 98%. There are flags in both areas of the Halberd and like...the Wilds or something, and I'm not sure how to get those extra 2%.
I'm kind of irritated that Trophy Stands only pop up at random intervals during boss fights, and usually not at all. I got a Trophy Stand during the first ten seconds of the Rayquaza fight and I was like "oh, COME ON." It disappeared before I could do significant damage to the beastie.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Shecky on April 16, 2008, 08:56:41 PM
I bet there might be stickers that help with trophy stands...
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Arbok on April 16, 2008, 09:52:25 PM
I bet there might be stickers that help with trophy stands...
Yep, and as noted in the blog it helps to play on the higher difficulties. Hard and Very Hard are ideal if you are looking to get boss trophies, Intense even more so... although it's harder to stay alive while waiting around for one to appear.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on April 16, 2008, 10:55:05 PM
Intense single boss fights aren't so hard if you power up the characters you would be playing as. All you have to do is make sure you maximize trophy space and use stickers that would effect the specific attacks you'd use, or defend against the attacks the boss would use. And don't forget the trophy-dropping sticker, of course.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Deep-Six on May 01, 2008, 04:11:53 PM
Well I guess I'm one of the few who actually really likes the SSE. Me and my sister have already beaten it, start to finish, twice and are working our way up the difficulties (Intense is... quite interesting so far).
*shrugs* I guess I have always been a fan of mindless beat-em ups like Final Fight and what not, as has my sister, so the SSE feels right at home to us.
Actually, your not alone there, I actually loved the SSE and never had had a lot of fun with it (and we both also like Godzilla, wowee). I beat it on hard my first time, beat it 100%, and now plan to play it again on intense. I guess I'm just very good at the game.
Best cut-scean goes to the airship battle. (drool)
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: EasyCure on May 02, 2008, 11:05:07 AM
i finally had some time to beat this damn thing after stoping half-way thru the Great Maze on my last play time like a month ago. I don't think the complaints about the SSE are that serious, it didnt take anything away from my time with it and the fun i had. I really liked it in fact, but i DO still feel they should of worked more on brawls on-line components since having an on-line smash bros is what most of the fans wanted. Since launch, i've been unable to play random matches at all and only played a handful of friendly matches because i'd keep getting disconnected from the network. I don't want to hear anything about using X or Y cuz i've tried a few methods of getting my game on-line
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 11, 2008, 10:47:31 PM
OK, having fully played the SSE mode I am ready to offer my thoughts...
The mode does indeed suck. Its a tad better than the single player adventure modes seen in other fighting games (I'm looking at you, Tekken!)....but not by much. In fact, it suffers from many of the problems commonly found in these modes, and here's a rundown:
1. Lame/annoying enemies: These are perhaps some of the worst enemies I have ever seen in a videogame. They are supposed to be part of an army made of the same substance, but they are all over the place. The Brawl team should have taken a cue from Square's Kingdom Hearts and make the SSE army a lot like the Heartless army; be wild in their design but make them look like they belong on the same team.
But what truly kills me is how greatly annoying they are on the harder levels. Some of them are insanely cheap! And the game loves to throw many of them at once. I swear I almost threw the controller across the room in frustration due to how ridiculous these enemies are.
2. Annoying level design: I admit, I thought the levels were cool, especially on the first levels. But afterwards they are an exercise in patience as they are very bland, boring and un-inspired. Seriously, we are playing a NINTENDO ALL STARS GAME! Shouldn't we be visiting levels based on Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and such? I know that this is an alternate trophy world, but really!
And the Great Maze level? WORST...LEVEL...EVER! Really, WHY did Sakurai and his team throw in this really tedious final level? Its like they ran out of ideas for a cool final level and instead decided to throw the player around the same, boring levels they already endured, throw in even more enemies and force them to repeat every single boss battle and character battle in the game.
3. The SSB engine DOES NOT WORK AS A PLATFORMING ENGINE: Did anyone on the development ever team realize this? In fact, when playing through the mode I remembered one of the reasons the adventure mode in Melee was lame; the SSB engine does not work as an adventure and platforming engine. Once you do a third jump the character can't jump anymore until he or she lands. This can kill your character if you miss a platform in a level. Plus, it just made the controls feel very awkward, especially for climbing ladders and jumping using springs.
The ending now sucks even harder, especially since I endured a rather long and tedious level in order to get it.
So overall, I am left wondering "Considering Sakurai's dream was to make an expanded single player adventure, this is the best that he and his team could come up with?" Lord knows how many online features, characters, stages and items were sacrificed just so work on this mode could be finished in time of the game's release.
The really pretty cutscenes and "story" does not make the mode even more appealing. The decision to use the fighting engine as a platformer, annoying enemies and terrible level design make the SSE mode yet another mode that developers tried to shoehorn into the game, but failed to live up to the standards set by the main game.
If there's a SSB 4, the SSE shouldn't be brought back. Or at the very least, given a massive overhaul.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 12, 2008, 12:34:32 AM
If I were Sakurai, I'd have made the SSE a bunch of cutscenes with fights between characters in between, none of the silly, bland platforming.
That way, he could've outsourced the CGI and focused on testing the game to eliminate game breaking balance issues, like how Marth, Snake and some others can infinite-grab-kill Lucas and Ness and Dedede can infinite grab kill 5 different characters.
I wouldn't have minded the SSE so much if the rest of the game was picture-perfect, but as it stands, it doesn't look like much testing happened at all. Chaingrabbing isn't a super advanced technique, especially when you can just mash the grab button (like in Marth's case against Ness/Lucas) and have a guaranteed kill on your hands.
I can't imagine how beta testing could've overlooked infinite-grab kills unless Sakurai only brought non-gamers in to test it or something. The game wasn't rushed, so what's the excuse this time?
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2008, 12:41:13 AM
He didn't care.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: D_Average on July 21, 2008, 01:15:23 PM
After 90 day hiatus I finally forced myself to play this again over the weekend. 68% done now, almost there!
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ShyGuy on August 10, 2008, 04:34:03 AM
I'm really liking Sub Space Emissary. Much better than the lousy fighting game.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Spinnzilla on August 12, 2008, 05:03:50 PM
SSE is kind of a chore to play by myself, but with my girlfriend it's alot more fun. I think the boss battles are fun, as I'm trying to get all the boss trophies at the moment.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Mario on August 16, 2008, 02:30:40 AM
I agree I played it co-op and it was actually much better and very fun.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Shecky on August 16, 2008, 08:10:18 AM
I can't imagine how beta testing could've overlooked infinite-grab kills unless Sakurai only brought non-gamers in to test it or something. The game wasn't rushed, so what's the excuse this time?
You can't grab SSE characters (and maybe that's where a bulk of the testing went).
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ShyGuy on August 17, 2008, 07:09:39 AM
Subspace Emissary got overly hard all of a sudden. The floating platform jumping makes me angry.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: nickmitch on August 17, 2008, 06:12:15 PM
Don't use Samus, when you have the option.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Smakian on August 21, 2008, 09:52:14 PM
I was addicted to SSE the first day; I really don't see what all the fuss was about. I suppose what kept me going was constantly unlocking a new character every hour or so; I had to keep going just to see what was next. I enjoyed the cinematics too...I suppose the gameplay was fairly sparse, but it was enough to keep me playing pretty much nonstop from start to finish.
Honestly, though, I've barely picked up the game since, so maybe I approached it wrong.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Suemealso on October 16, 2008, 03:23:30 AM
I thought it was okay and i actually liked the cut scenes =/ When i heard about the adventure like thing i said i could careless about it, Most SS veterans obviously bought the game to fight.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: DAaaMan64 on October 16, 2008, 04:31:21 AM
The cut scenes were awesome.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: that Baby guy on October 16, 2008, 03:30:49 PM
OK, having fully played the SSE mode I am ready to offer my thoughts...
The mode does indeed suck. Its a tad better than the single player adventure modes seen in other fighting games (I'm looking at you, Tekken!)....but not by much. In fact, it suffers from many of the problems commonly found in these modes, and here's a rundown:
1. Lame/annoying enemies: These are perhaps some of the worst enemies I have ever seen in a videogame. They are supposed to be part of an army made of the same substance, but they are all over the place. The Brawl team should have taken a cue from Square's Kingdom Hearts and make the SSE army a lot like the Heartless army; be wild in their design but make them look like they belong on the same team.
But what truly kills me is how greatly annoying they are on the harder levels. Some of them are insanely cheap! And the game loves to throw many of them at once. I swear I almost threw the controller across the room in frustration due to how ridiculous these enemies are.
2. Annoying level design: I admit, I thought the levels were cool, especially on the first levels. But afterwards they are an exercise in patience as they are very bland, boring and un-inspired. Seriously, we are playing a NINTENDO ALL STARS GAME! Shouldn't we be visiting levels based on Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and such? I know that this is an alternate trophy world, but really!
And the Great Maze level? WORST...LEVEL...EVER! Really, WHY did Sakurai and his team throw in this really tedious final level? Its like they ran out of ideas for a cool final level and instead decided to throw the player around the same, boring levels they already endured, throw in even more enemies and force them to repeat every single boss battle and character battle in the game.
3. The SSB engine DOES NOT WORK AS A PLATFORMING ENGINE: Did anyone on the development ever team realize this? In fact, when playing through the mode I remembered one of the reasons the adventure mode in Melee was lame; the SSB engine does not work as an adventure and platforming engine. Once you do a third jump the character can't jump anymore until he or she lands. This can kill your character if you miss a platform in a level. Plus, it just made the controls feel very awkward, especially for climbing ladders and jumping using springs.
The ending now sucks even harder, especially since I endured a rather long and tedious level in order to get it.
So overall, I am left wondering "Considering Sakurai's dream was to make an expanded single player adventure, this is the best that he and his team could come up with?" Lord knows how many online features, characters, stages and items were sacrificed just so work on this mode could be finished in time of the game's release.
The really pretty cutscenes and "story" does not make the mode even more appealing. The decision to use the fighting engine as a platformer, annoying enemies and terrible level design make the SSE mode yet another mode that developers tried to shoehorn into the game, but failed to live up to the standards set by the main game.
If there's a SSB 4, the SSE shouldn't be brought back. Or at the very least, given a massive overhaul.
It's of note that it's not just a fighting game engine that it's running on. They gimped the characters so they jump lower and run slower. SSB:B's SSE characters jump lower and run slower in the stages, and then go back to full form when fighting another character or a boss. Why would they make things worse in this mode? I've got no idea, but I find it pretty lame, and it makes the platforming, fighting, and adventuring increasingly tedious.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 16, 2008, 03:35:33 PM
Yeah, totally misrepresents Captain Falcon.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Shecky on October 16, 2008, 09:27:26 PM
Heh, if they didn't cramp up Falcon's legs in single player, you'd run clear off the imaginary boundary every time they "freeze the screen/camera". That's a huge annoyance factor right there (freezing the screen/camera).
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 16, 2008, 11:55:15 PM
No screen can contain him.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: ShyGuy on November 02, 2008, 11:50:42 AM
Started this back up last night, was playing coop but I think the mode is easier if you go single player.
I liked the part where Captain Falcon killed all the Pikmin.
Title: Re: The Subspace Emissary Sucks
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 02, 2008, 02:01:28 PM
