Post by: NWR_Neal on March 17, 2015, 04:48:47 PM
Nintendo popped the cork on their mobile plans, their Club Nintendo successor, and their next console. What does it all mean?
Nintendo will be partnering with the large mobile company DeNA to create smartphone apps and games that will be part of a Club Nintendo-like ecosystem that links the Wii U, 3DS, tablets, phones, computers, and Nintendo’s future console, which is currently dubbed NX. That’s a hell of a way to start a morning. Yes, Nintendo is going into mobile development, but at least for now, they are still working on their own consoles.
Thinking about it, this is the ideal way for Nintendo to expand their market. Working with DeNA, a proven company in the mobile space, they can create unique games and experiences on smartphones without worrying about servers and a lot of the back-end functions in the mobile space. As we have come to learn over the past 10 years, Nintendo’s forte is not in creating smooth online experiences. Relying on a company such as DeNA is smart, because it lets the brilliant game-making minds at Nintendo focus on creating compelling mobile experiences while not being bogged down by the servers and infrastructure. Of course, we don’t really know who’s even working on these games yet at Nintendo or what they might be. All we really know is that Nintendo won’t just port the classics over and these new games will make use of Nintendo characters and franchises.
Given the mention of Nintendo’s next console, the mysterious NX, this radical mobile announcement shouldn’t immediately alter Nintendo’s home and handheld console development. If Nintendo went through this announcement without specifically mentioning a new console, I’d worry they’d be “third-pillaring” their mobile initiative. For those that didn’t live through the Nintendo DS reveal, Nintendo introduced the DS as a third pillar in addition to GameCube and Game Boy Advance, which in retrospect was a essentially a failsafe in case the DS bombed. The DS succeeded, so the handheld ended up replacing the Game Boy Advance. The thought was always that if the DS flopped, Nintendo would shove it quietly under the rug and keep going with GBA game development.
Before the mention of the NX, my thought was that Nintendo might try to “third-pillar” their DeNA partnership. They could introduce their mobile games with the intent to wind down Wii U and 3DS development. Instead, NX appears to be a console that will be made in tune with their new Club Nintendo successor. With an estimated launch this fall, this new membership service will tie together their current systems, the NX, and their new mobile plans. While it wasn’t explicitly stated, it looks like we’re on the verge of the fabled Nintendo account system.
The NX is being developed with this new membership service in mind, but aside from that, what could the NX even be? When mentioned today, Iwata didn’t say much about the nebulous future console other than it will have a new hook (a la motion controls for the Wii, 3D for the 3DS, etc.) and more info will come next year. It appears that NX might be on tap for a 2017 release, with a holiday 2016 release not out of the realm of possibility depending on how the Wii U and 3DS perform this year.
Given past hints and comments, the NX could potentially bring together their home and portable experiences into one device. It’s not set in stone, but there’s a chance that within two or three years, we could be playing Nintendo games solely on our NX device and our phones. Is that a weird, mildly scary future? Sure, but it might also be a future where Nintendo succeeds on their own terms, making mobile games the way they want to while still making the console games we’ve loved for 30 years.
Post by: Triforce Hermit on March 18, 2015, 12:39:57 AM
Quote
"It’s not set in stone, but there’s a chance that within two or three years, we could be playing Nintendo games solely on our NX device and our phones. Is that a weird, mildly scary future? Sure, but it might also be a future where Nintendo succeeds on their own terms, making mobile games the way they want to while still making the console games we’ve loved for 30 years"
Depending on what the NX is, that is a future where I'm no longer a Nintendo gamer.
Post by: Caterkiller on March 18, 2015, 01:59:32 AM
Quote"It’s not set in stone, but there’s a chance that within two or three years, we could be playing Nintendo games solely on our NX device and our phones. Is that a weird, mildly scary future? Sure, but it might also be a future where Nintendo succeeds on their own terms, making mobile games the way they want to while still making the console games we’ve loved for 30 years"
Depending on what the NX is, that is a future where I'm no longer a Nintendo gamer.
I love Nintendo just about as much as anyone, I was sure they would never go mobile(though with Pokemon stuff getting there I should have known it was a possibility) and all I've ever owned was Nintendo. Well I had Genesis for Sonic and PS2 for Guitar Hero, both given as gifts. So some might view me as one of those stubborn Nintendo fans, I don't hate anything else they just don't appeal to me like a gorilla wearing a tie does.
So with all that said I do not see the problem with what Nintendo is proposing at all. You won't be playing Mario 64 or Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze on your tablet or smart phone any time soon, if ever. Those games will still exist the same way they always have on the dedicated gaming console we've always loved(and hated). You'll get Yoshi's Wooly World for the Wii U and Yoshi's Touch and Go Again for smart phones. That is a win win if I ever seen it! Specific smart phone games will be made with Nintendo IP basically just doing advertisements. The real deal will always be on the home console and handheld devices.
Basically we'll see Angry Birdos, Yoshi's Cookie Crush and Bobomb Beach for mobile. Popular mobile games with Nintendo characters slapped on and you know Nintendo will be able to come up with something that will be just as addictive as any of those others.
Nintendo makes more money, the world can shut up about going mobile, and we can potentially get more of the "real" games!
Originally the thought of Nintendo going mobile was to me, release Mario 3D World for 3DS and smart phones. This is not the case at all and I am happy.
Post by: Evan_B on March 18, 2015, 03:23:16 AM
Post by: tyto_alba on March 18, 2015, 04:05:10 AM
Post by: Adrock on March 18, 2015, 08:06:55 AM
I still think NX actually means "N Cross" which could be a hybrid, but I think cross-platform is more likely. Nintendo cryptically mentioned "a new concept." What about a deeply integrated yet separate console and handheld that constantly communicate with each other? Nintendo has never done that before. Its devices rarely communicate outside of some minor connectivity attempts.
Nintendo has been hinting at this for a while now.
1. Nintendo combined its console and handheld divisions.
2. Nintendo added Miiverse and Nintendo Network to 3DS.
3. Iwata talked about future hardware being "like brothers in a family of systems" and compared it iOS and Android.
4. Nintendo released its first cross-buy game: Mario vs. Donkey Kong: Tripping Stars.
This partnership with DeNA is the logical next step. Perhaps DeNA is actually making a Nintendo version of Mobage (or updating eShop, Miiverse, and Nintendo Network). DeNA already has a headstart with a platform to base it on. This gives Nintendo the infrastructure to make a cross-platform game between console, handheld, and mobile devices without putzing around trying to figure out how to integrate this itself. An inter-connected platform makes sense because it brings people together. I suppose the thinking is to eventually get mobile users to join existing NX users on NX. "If you get an NX, we can play Mario Kart."
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 18, 2015, 09:29:42 AM
Post by: Soren on March 18, 2015, 10:54:23 AM
And let's not kid ourselves, dedicated console gaming experiences are still Nintendo's strong suit. The reviews show it. Letting Nintendo focus on the hardware and giving the reigns of the infrastructure to DeNA means we get all the things we wanted in terms of a unified account, a hybrid infrastructure and a better product overall. Third parties? Let's stop acting like that means anything right now, it doesn't. They're not coming back. They're bleeding too much money to properly push development across three different platforms. Nintendo grows inward(because Nintendo) and any third party that wants to join in will be treated well.
Post by: Adrock on March 18, 2015, 11:47:02 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2015, 02:27:35 PM
We liked that Nintendo was resisting mobile because then this "threat" wasn't there. Hell, I think gaming as a whole was happy that at least one major player was not going down that path. If all else failed at least Nintendo was still going to be making "real" games. Now that's not the case.
Videogames are pretty new in the grand scheme of things. My generation is really the first one to grow up with videogames so we really haven't had a generational shift like other forms of entertainment. With something like popular music there comes this point for everyone where it all shifts to the younger generation. Grampa Simpson said it best: "I used to be with it but they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it and what's it seems weird and scary to me." Is mobile the generational shift? Is it the future of videogames for the next generation while us old farts are all left in the cold?
Post by: Shaymin on March 18, 2015, 02:37:35 PM
No, it's the children who are wrong."
Post by: broodwars on March 18, 2015, 03:07:36 PM
We'll see where this leads, but I don't like how this whole situation feels right now, especially when Nintendo was already churning out wannabe-mobile crap like Pokemon Shuffle.
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 18, 2015, 03:30:57 PM
I find Nintendo going to mobile troubling, as it's been pretty much the death knell of the entire Japanese development scene. Capcom & S-E have increasingly abandoned traditional gaming for mobile the last few years (both of which only green-lightning new console projects if platform holders pay them for it), and SEGA recently joined them. One of the saddest things to see the last generation was the growing irrelevancy of Japanese developers due to this shift. If you want traditional gaming now (outside a handful of Japanese devs like Platinum or NIS), you look to Western developers because Japan no longer matters. Nintendo insists now that they have no intention of leaving traditional gaming, but years of investor pressure eventually made Iwata cave on mobile development. Years of investor pressure can change his stance on traditional games development as well.
We'll see where this leads, but I don't like how this whole situation feels right now, especially when Nintendo was already churning out wannabe-mobile crap like Pokemon Shuffle.
This is pretty much my position. Like, there's a reason the stock is blowing up now and not when Iwata first announced that they were planning on creating teaser products for mobile. The whole "people will try Nintendo's mobile experiences and then buy a console!" thing is ridiculous on its face. If the mobile game is effective then you don't need a console because you're already satisfied playing a mobile game for the most part (i.e. the huge majority of people playing games on smartphones). If the mobile game is unsatisfying why should that encourage you to seek out a "better" version at a costly buy-in/lifestyle choice?
Post by: broodwars on March 18, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
Post by: Soren on March 18, 2015, 04:26:38 PM
The audience that games on mobile devices aren't looking for the kind of experiences we have on dedicated devices, nor have they historically proven that they want to pay for those kind of experiences.
Why do you think that's what's going to happen here?
Post by: broodwars on March 18, 2015, 04:36:31 PM
The audience that games on mobile devices aren't looking for the kind of experiences we have on dedicated devices, nor have they historically proven that they want to pay for those kind of experiences.
Why do you think that's what's going to happen here?
Because $.99 right now is considered (at best) the ceiling on mobile games, only a handful of mobile games are actually successful, and this same audience shunned more traditional experiences on the Wii & Wii U. I just don't see how Nintendo breaks with history here and convinces people that refuse to pay even $5 for the handful of good games on the various mobile stores...to now pay $50-$60 (or more) for games on top of the price of a console or handheld device. This audience is cheap, lazy, and only buy games modeled after slot machines...so naturally, everyone wants them.
Of course, this all also hinges on Nintendo's own console development to be up to snuff as the receiving end of the deal. When you look at the total domination the PS4 has right now compared to where Nintendo is with the Wii U, the NX (if it's even a console) would have to be something really special to compete on that level. I need to see much more evolution out of Nintendo before I'm ready to believe that's even a possibility. Unified accounts is definitely a step in the right direction, but it's just one of many that Nintendo needs to do.
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on March 18, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
All entertainment went to **** as soon as they brought in the talkies. Everyone knows this.
Videogames are pretty new in the grand scheme of things. My generation is really the first one to grow up with videogames so we really haven't had a generational shift like other forms of entertainment. With something like popular music there comes this point for everyone where it all shifts to the younger generation. Grampa Simpson said it best: "I used to be with it but they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it and what's it seems weird and scary to me." Is mobile the generational shift? Is it the future of videogames for the next generation while us old farts are all left in the cold?
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2015, 04:53:00 PM
The irony of this plan? If casuals turned into core gamers why would they stick with Nintendo? Core gamers prefer the PlayStation and Xbox brands. If you graduated to core games you would suddenly be very aware of all of Nintendo's problems. The Wii really coasted on the target audience being too unfamiliar with games to notice all the serious issues it had. So if you came in with Wii Sports and then graduated to fuller games you would probably be savvy enough to notice the shitty online setup and the weak third party support and how utterly shallow and imprecise motion control is. For all we know a lot of casual gamers did "graduate"... and then bought a PS4 instead of a Wii U.
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 18, 2015, 07:50:52 PM
For all we know a lot of casual gamers did "graduate"... and then bought a PS4 instead of a Wii U.
Maybe, inasmuch as they were kids with a Wii in the house (or had a DS), got interested in videogames, wanted mainstreamy/"core" stuff, picked up PS4s when they had the chance as adults. But the DS sold 150 Million units, the Wii 100 million. There's no way in hell anything now, even PS4 and WiiU and Vita and XBone combined, will touch that kind of penetration. The PS4 is selling well, but even Sony is confused about why it's succeeding as much as it is. I think it's because there's a pretty rigid audience of 20-40 year olds (majority male) who grew up with video game consoles, playing console-type games, and now have disposable income to drop on new systems and a weirdly ingrained cultural identification with this specific formulation of the medium (more so than there were at the outset of the PS360 gen).
Anyway, my point is I think the console space is set to become a large but calcified niche, which will attract less and less business enthusiasm given corporate growth priorities. Kids growing up now on tablets and phones aren't going to care about the console space in the same way. If anything Nintendo did great work in easing the "casual" audience into motion-controlled interactive media with the DS and Wii, only for them to inevitably turn to smart phones. I guess in summary I suspect the long-term history of video games is going to look at consoles and what we think of as "real" games as interesting dodos, unequipped to survive contact with invaders from the blue ocean.
Post by: Mop it up on March 18, 2015, 08:38:33 PM
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 18, 2015, 08:47:45 PM
For all we know a lot of casual gamers did "graduate"... and then bought a PS4 instead of a Wii U.
Maybe, inasmuch as they were kids with a Wii in the house (or had a DS), got interested in videogames, wanted mainstreamy/"core" stuff, picked up PS4s when they had the chance as adults. But the DS sold 150 Million units, the Wii 100 million. There's no way in hell anything now, even PS4 and WiiU and Vita and XBone combined, will touch that kind of penetration. The PS4 is selling well, but even Sony is confused about why it's succeeding as much as it is. I think it's because there's a pretty rigid audience of 20-40 year olds (majority male) who grew up with video game consoles, playing console-type games, and now have disposable income to drop on new systems and a weirdly ingrained cultural identification with this specific formulation of the medium (more so than there were at the outset of the PS360 gen).
Anyway, my point is I think the console space is set to become a large but calcified niche, which will attract less and less business enthusiasm given corporate growth priorities. Kids growing up now on tablets and phones aren't going to care about the console space in the same way. If anything Nintendo did great work in easing the "casual" audience into motion-controlled interactive media with the DS and Wii, only for them to inevitably turn to smart phones. I guess in summary I suspect the long-term history of video games is going to look at consoles and what we think of as "real" games as interesting dodos, unequipped to survive contact with invaders from the blue ocean.
I disagree with everything you said. Consoles have always existed as a niche of the larger market, have you never heard of Arcades, that is the market mobile replaced not consoles. PS4 is not only going to sell well it is going to blow past Wii and DS sales numbers before this generation is done. Maybe the reason PS4 is selling so well is it does everything right and hasn't compromised on anything. The games will just naturally gravitate to it and eventually the sales will continue to rise.
Even if you take blue ocean out of it, the console space as a whole has not changed much in terms of raw numbers, if anything its growing not declining.
PS2+Xbox+GC sold a combined number roughly 196 million total. Last gen sold a combined total of roughly 340 million and counting. That is *just* consoles not counting handhelds and so far PS4 has blown past Dreamcast, Game Cube, and original Xbox lifetime sales. Well they maybe have another month to go for that last one but they will surely do better than PS3 did which is sitting around 80+ million and counting as of right now. Hell PS3 still has a chance to top Wii life time sales if it keeps selling, which doesn't look like Sony wants to kill it any time soon. Playstation consoles are famous for their incredibly long life spans, Nintendo consoles are not so much.
Steam Machine is gearing up to expand the console space as well as it will combine PC and console into one unit, something Xbox and Playstation have been sort of attempting for years. Society as a whole might be gravitating towards mobile in large numbers but as the worlds population increases so does the gaming population. Its not like in the 90's where gaming was a niche today it is pretty mainstream and consoles do a LOT more than play video games, well unless you stick ONLY to Nintendo consoles and then they barely do more than just video games and well sometimes they barely do video games.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 18, 2015, 09:05:52 PM
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 18, 2015, 10:33:52 PM
You're crazy if you think the PS4 surpasses the Wii, and downright insane if you think it gets anywhere even close to the DS. There's definitely a market for consoles, but mobile has eaten into the demographics that got Wii and DS where they were.
really so who was buying Ps2 consoles? That sold better than Wii.
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 18, 2015, 11:44:44 PM
Wow.
"PS4 is not only going to sell well it is going to blow past Wii and DS sales numbers before this generation is done. Maybe the reason PS4 is selling so well is it does everything right and hasn't compromised on anything. The games will just naturally gravitate to it and eventually the sales will continue to rise."
Hooboy. Anyway, yeah, all those compelling games are going to gravitate toward PS4, which will have a library just like the PS2. All those novel, moderately budgeted, aesthetically and mechanically varied retail games are going to flow like honey. And not be substantively replaced by indie games that could run on your Dell laptop from college and exist in a nostalgia hot-boxed echo chamber.
"Steam Machine is gearing up to expand the console space as well as it will combine PC and console into one unit, something Xbox and Playstation have been sort of attempting for years."
Yes, Steam Machines are going deliver the Millennium of gaming. They might be almost as popular and influential as the Steam Controller is destined to be.
"Its not like in the 90's where gaming was a niche today it is pretty mainstream and consoles do a LOT more than play video games, well unless you stick ONLY to Nintendo consoles and then they barely do more than just video games and well sometimes they barely do video games."
Certainly having access to media streaming and social networking services that come loaded on toasters nowadays is a sterling and insurmountable advantage. Also, too, recording videos of yourself playing a video game is a feature that will reel in a massive audience of people who don't already live inside the present population-growth-adjusted stagnant or declining "hardcore gamer" ecosystem.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 18, 2015, 11:49:20 PM
"I disagree with everything you said. Consoles have always existed as a niche of the larger market, have you never heard of Arcades, that is the market mobile replaced not consoles."
Wow.
"PS4 is not only going to sell well it is going to blow past Wii and DS sales numbers before this generation is done. Maybe the reason PS4 is selling so well is it does everything right and hasn't compromised on anything. The games will just naturally gravitate to it and eventually the sales will continue to rise."
Hooboy. Anyway, yeah, all those compelling games are going to gravitate toward PS4, which will have a library just like the PS2. All those novel, moderately budgeted, aesthetically and mechanically varied retail games are going to flow like honey. And not be substantively replaced by indie games that could run on your Dell laptop from college and exist in a nostalgia hot-boxed echo chamber.
"Steam Machine is gearing up to expand the console space as well as it will combine PC and console into one unit, something Xbox and Playstation have been sort of attempting for years."
Yes, Steam Machines are going deliver the Millennium of gaming. They might be almost as popular and influential as the Steam Controller is destined to be.
"Its not like in the 90's where gaming was a niche today it is pretty mainstream and consoles do a LOT more than play video games, well unless you stick ONLY to Nintendo consoles and then they barely do more than just video games and well sometimes they barely do video games."
Certainly having access to media streaming and social networking services that come loaded on toasters nowadays is a sterling and insurmountable advantage. Also, too, recording videos of yourself playing a video game is a feature that will reel in a massive audience of people who don't already live inside the present population-growth-adjusted stagnant or declining "hardcore gamer" ecosystem.
So what because you prefer Nintendo that means nobody else is allowed to like Playstation? News flash Ps4 is not only selling really well its gaining a lot of praise from everyone who isn't a fanboy.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 18, 2015, 11:58:09 PM
You're crazy if you think the PS4 surpasses the Wii, and downright insane if you think it gets anywhere even close to the DS. There's definitely a market for consoles, but mobile has eaten into the demographics that got Wii and DS where they were.
really so who was buying Ps2 consoles? That sold better than Wii.
The PS2 sold a lot to the casual market as well, and especially early on as a DVD player. The market is different now, that's kind of the point.
Post by: ShyGuy on March 19, 2015, 01:51:17 AM
For some reason I don't feel interested in speculation on this stuff, so I'll just be waiting for more information.
A Pichu slap of reason!
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 19, 2015, 02:38:24 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 19, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
how do you know PS4 won't double as a casual friendly console since it does everything people want in terms of multimedia stuff too? It has Facebook integration built in there is nothing more casual right now than FB.
Casuals aren't going to buy a $400 videogame system to do things they can already do on their PC or smartphones. Sony would have to create a Wii Sports type casual phenomenon to make these people even think about buying the PS4 and Sony has shown no interest in doing that.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 19, 2015, 05:42:14 PM
how do you know PS4 won't double as a casual friendly console since it does everything people want in terms of multimedia stuff too? It has Facebook integration built in there is nothing more casual right now than FB.
Casuals aren't going to buy a $400 videogame system to do things they can already do on their PC or smartphones. Sony would have to create a Wii Sports type casual phenomenon to make these people even think about buying the PS4 and Sony has shown no interest in doing that.
Sure they will, they are doing it in droves. Every sales story says the Ps4 is selling faster than Ps2 do you really think all of that is hard core gamers? The flaw in this argument is lumping all people who aren't hard core into one "casual" umbrella which is erroneous there are a lot of Madden/CoD and Wrestling only "gamers" who will buy the damn thing too. You can say Ps4 won't sell as well as Ps2 all you want while in the real world it ALREADY IS doing just that.
Post by: Wah on March 19, 2015, 11:03:40 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 19, 2015, 11:34:26 PM
Sure they will, they are doing it in droves. Every sales story says the Ps4 is selling faster than Ps2 do you really think all of that is hard core gamers? The flaw in this argument is lumping all people who aren't hard core into one "casual" umbrella which is erroneous there are a lot of Madden/CoD and Wrestling only "gamers" who will buy the damn thing too. You can say Ps4 won't sell as well as Ps2 all you want while in the real world it ALREADY IS doing just that.
That's not true anymore.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/jabbamk1/NPD%20PS2%20PS3%20PS4_zps68dxokx4.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/jabbamk1/media/NPD%20PS2%20PS3%20PS4_zps68dxokx4.jpg.html)
Yes it launched stronger but that's thanks to the huge demand for new next gen consoles since the previous one dragged on so long. The hardcore make launches successful while the casuals are what drive long term sales. The fact PS4 sales are slowing down around the time the PS2 took off shows it's not appealing to families and casuals like the PS2 did.
Post by: Soren on March 20, 2015, 12:21:07 AM
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on March 26, 2015, 02:05:50 AM
Sure they will, they are doing it in droves. Every sales story says the Ps4 is selling faster than Ps2 do you really think all of that is hard core gamers? The flaw in this argument is lumping all people who aren't hard core into one "casual" umbrella which is erroneous there are a lot of Madden/CoD and Wrestling only "gamers" who will buy the damn thing too. You can say Ps4 won't sell as well as Ps2 all you want while in the real world it ALREADY IS doing just that.
That's not true anymore.
(http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr180/jabbamk1/NPD%20PS2%20PS3%20PS4_zps68dxokx4.jpg) (http://s481.photobucket.com/user/jabbamk1/media/NPD%20PS2%20PS3%20PS4_zps68dxokx4.jpg.html)
Yes it launched stronger but that's thanks to the huge demand for new next gen consoles since the previous one dragged on so long. The hardcore make launches successful while the casuals are what drive long term sales. The fact PS4 sales are slowing down around the time the PS2 took off shows it's not appealing to families and casuals like the PS2 did.
what you have one month where it dipped slightly and suddenly that is a trend? The PS4 is proving that there is still a market for home consoles.
