Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on February 07, 2015, 12:24:57 AM
Title: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on February 07, 2015, 12:24:57 AM
Now that I have had my console for a few months and its had a couple of years to stick around it occurs to me this thin isn't just a fluke we can sweep under the rug and pretend it never happened, its here to stay we might as well accept it.
So I was curious who here who owns a Wii U can rank in amongst the previous console generations? I was thinking for me personally despite my initial dislike of the console itself, which I still do to some extent, I have come to accept it is Nintendo's current console and does belong to their legacy. I think for me I would rank it right above Wii and N64 but still beneath GameCube, SNES, and NES. I know the generation isn't over but the games that are out, to me anyways, still feel superior to their N64 and Wii counterparts, or at least the ones I am familiar with.
What are some other peoples thoughts?
I still rank SNES at the top. If I had to rank them numerically I would do so as follows
1. SNES + Super Game Boy GB Tetris helps put it over the top
2. Game Cube + Game Boy Player On its own I rank it number 3 so GBA games help it a lot
3. NES Nostalgia mostly keeps it in the running but its not aged well as a console.
4. Wii U Super Mario 3D World is probably the greatest video game ever made. Or at least the greatest 3D Mario game ever made. Or the greatest Mario game ever made. I love this game.
5. N64 It was close but honestly this machine has aged far worse than NES. The TWO games I can still go back and replay, Super Mario 64, and Zelda, are playable on newer, better consoles so there is no reason to ever bother with this tired old geezer.
6. Wii I won't lie I loved it at first, fell in love with the virtual console, the motion controls, the hype, the Mii's were a novelty but I liked them at first. Once the novelty faded and I got more experience on my friends 360 I slowly started to lose interest in this thing. It had some great ideas but it was the weakest of all their consoles, not just graphically but games wise I felt also. It was sort of propped up by Virtual Console but strip that away and suddenly it doesn't look so hot. I had to rank Wii U a notch above because it technically still *is* a Wii.
That is just where I rank it among Nintendo consoles, gaming in general however it does not fair so well. PS1, PS2, PS3, Genesis, Atari VCS, even Sega CD and Dreamcast do I rank higher than Wii U, and yes even those that fall beneath it as well. This is just me but I do rank Wii U a notch above original Xbox but probably tied with 360.
Where do others fall into this?
I think when it is all said and done Wii U will be remembered as a bomb compared to gaming as a whole but it will turn around and pull up there with GC and N64 for many people. I personally loved the Game Cube and wish it didn't have to morph into Wii. I almost ranked Wii a notch up just because it is technically a Game Cube but then I remembered it lacks Game Boy Player support so it wasn't a fair fight.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 07, 2015, 01:24:07 AM
See, I might go as far as to put the Wii at the top of my list, especially if I were including games that were technically ported from GameCube but with substantial improvement.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: broodwars on February 07, 2015, 02:04:29 AM
A console ranking of Nintendo consoles? Oh geez...let me think...
1. SNES - A strong contender with the PS2 for the best library of games ever made, and it has my favorite all-time game in Chrono Trigger.
2. GameCube - A good balance of 1st & 3rd party games, including some of my favorite RPGs in Skies of Arcadia; Tales of Symphonia; & Baten Kaitos Origins. Plus, Metroid Prime.
3. Nintendo 64 - This was the console I played throughout high school, so some of the most influential games I ever played were on this console, such as Ogre Battle 64; GoldenEye; and Mario 64.
4. Wii U - It's a console I have a lot of trouble placing. There are games on it that I like & the overall quality is pretty decent, but I can't think of a single noteworthy game that I can just unequivocally point to as a favorite game like I can the other consoles. "Meh" just sums up the thing in general.
5. Wii - It's my Xenoblade console and...yeah, that's just about it. A disappointing console on just about every level.
6. NES - No one can dispute how influential it was and I had a great deal of attachment to mine back in the day. However, after revisiting its library through Virtual Console & various web shows, it really was kind of a piece of **** and its games library (strongly influenced by the arcade scene of the time) was based on bad design & cheap mechanics. Most of the worst games ever made were made for this system, and all the good games were done better on the SNES.
So yeah, for me the Wii U sits firmly around the middle of the pack. I don't hate it, but I don't love it. It's just completely un-noteworthy in every respect.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Soren on February 07, 2015, 02:09:01 AM
The Wii brought me back into gaming after I lost interest during the sixth generation so it's right next to the SNES as my all-time favorite consoles. I guess I would put it right next to the N64, but if quality games keep coming out I guess it can get one of those goofy claims like "pound-for-pound" the best consoles around.
The Wii library is stacked, though.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 07, 2015, 09:07:59 AM
Great thread.
Personally, I have yet to own a SNES (that's something I'm looking forward to rectifying before I leave Japan, however) or an NES, so I can't really comment on either of them as a console, but I can comment on some of their games, having played a good deal on VC, emulators, and the like.
If we're talking about hardware, the consoles have a weird balance to me. I'll always love the N64 controller for its sheer ridiculousness, though the Game Cube is, in my opinion, one of the most comfortable controllers ever made. The Wii U Gamepad/Pro Controller is inching its way into my heart bit by bit, however. I don't think I have to say much about the Wii Remote, only that it's versatility was kind of impressive.
But libraries are a very different matter, of course. And the Wii U's life isn't over quite yet, but if XCX, Zelda, Devil's Third, and Splatoon turn out to be as good as I'm hoping (I have low expectations for Zelda, personally), in addition to some other titles (the first good 3D Mario since Sunshine, Pikmin 3, Mario Kart 8, Hyrule Warriors) and a functioning eShop- which is a huge part of a console in my opinion- with some decent exclusives (it's no 3DS eShop but it does have a few good exclusives and almost-exclusives), I'm going to put it around GCN level, which has some of my favorite titles ever but lacks some heft in library and features.
As far as the quality of games, I'd put it at SNES>GCN=Wii U>N64>NES. If we're throwing in handhelds the race becomes far more interesting, but I'll leave it at that.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Triforce Hermit on February 07, 2015, 11:11:02 AM
Don't own a Wii U so I can't judge it yet. But the Wii U library seems better then the Wii library. The Wii was a piece of crap aside from the virtual console, the backwards compatibility with GC games, Xenoblade, and Tatsunoko vs Capcom.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 07, 2015, 11:36:58 AM
I'm in a little bit of a different situation (though we can all be in the same situation since it's so easy to do) because my Wii U has the (Wii) Homebrew Channel installed and can play GameCube (and Triforce, woohoo!) games - and due to that I have to rank the Wii U as the best console since the N64. But treating it (and the Wii) as if there were no backwards compatibility whatsoever - and being based on how good the consoles were in their prime (not looking back and say, comparing Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario 3D World) I would say (best to least-best)
SNES N64 NES GameCube Wii U Wii
It's really hard to actually rank the consoles linearly like that though. Counting my somewhat different situation, I would put the Wii U under NES (or really tied with it).
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on February 07, 2015, 01:21:28 PM
I'm in a little bit of a different situation (though we can all be in the same situation since it's so easy to do) because my Wii U has the (Wii) Homebrew Channel installed and can play GameCube (and Triforce, woohoo!) games - and due to that I have to rank the Wii U as the best console since the N64. But treating it (and the Wii) as if there were no backwards compatibility whatsoever - and being based on how good the consoles were in their prime (not looking back and say, comparing Super Mario Bros. to Super Mario 3D World) I would say (best to least-best)
SNES N64 NES GameCube Wii U Wii
It's really hard to actually rank the consoles linearly like that though. Counting my somewhat different situation, I would put the Wii U under NES (or really tied with it).
Going by that logic then I could just rank my PC number one and be done with it since I have emulators for all of those consoles except Wii U, and that's only because it hasn't been emulated yet.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 07, 2015, 02:09:33 PM
But this is not emulation, so no, it is not like that.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Mop it up on February 07, 2015, 03:10:26 PM
I'm no fan of Wii U, I don't like the direction of the system and think the games are not as good as past games, and even ignoring the huge hole of third-party titles Nintendo haven't released as many games on it either. I don't think the library's bad overall though, just "good" instead of "great." No real stand-outs yet, but of course there are still some things to come. And I'd certainly rather have it than a PS4 or XBONE.
I'll list all systems I've owned just to put everything into perspective, in the order I like them today:
Wii - giant variety of unique and fun games Nintendo 64 - a huge revolution, still awesome Super Nintendo - refined the concepts introduced on NES into great things Nintendo DS - similar to Wii, big variety, plus lots of RPGs. Nintendo 3DS - doesn't quite live up to DS but still cool GameCube - a painful generation during its time, a bit better after the fact PlayStation 2 - lots of games yet nothing too special Wii U - this'll probably move up but for now, not impressed Sega Genesis - definitely not as good as SNES but it still has some decent exclusives Game Boy Advance - too many ports, but still a few goodies NES - extremely important to history, but not really fun anymore PlayStation 1 - never been a fan, most games not worth it today Game Boy Color - not sure if this counts as its own thing Game Boy - too primitive for my taste, need colour Xbox - never really liked anything besides Halo and Fusion Frenzy
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: ejamer on February 07, 2015, 03:23:09 PM
Wii - Don't know what some of you people are smoking to rate this console poorly. Yes, it was underpowered compared to its contemporaries... but the software library is diverse and robust and filled with interesting and unique gems. It made gaming accessible again, brought back lightgun shooters, provided full backwards compatibility with GameCube software, and introduced the Virtual Console service. If you can't have fun with a Wii then I feel sorry for you.
SNES - Took everything good about 2D gaming on NES, then polished and perfected it. Took on a real competitor in the marketplace and (eventually) dominated thanks to superb software. Has a library that is littered with classic games, many of which are still are highly respected today. Maybe I'm looking through rose-colored glasses, but it's very hard to find fault with what the SNES offered.
NES - There was essentially no competition, so gaming was the NES for a long time. Huge library with many great games. Even if the games don't always hold up well today, gaming wouldn't exist in it's current form if not for NES so it gets a respect bump.
Wii U - Hard to rate fairly while the library and legacy are still in developing, but I expect Wii U to be a mixed bag of a console. Backwards compatibility with Wii is a great start, and the ranking is buoyed by some transcendent first party software... but it's impossible to ignore how the console was an utter failure in the marketplace and what impact that had on the games library.
GameCube - Had all the tools to be successful on a hardware level, but unable to back it up with software. Almost every good third-party release on this console has a better version available elsewhere, and the same can be said for a handful of the first-party titles too. There were some gems (as always on a Nintendo console) but more misses than usual too - Mario Kart and Sunshine being two notable letdowns. Sadly, a console that just doesn't hold up well unless you rely on nostalgia.
N64 - A few remarkable classics, but the move to 3D gaming was too often filled with missteps, poor design decisions, and painfully visible hardware limitations. Too few games with several key genres almost entirely ignored. It was fun at the time and the best "party console" of the day... but very little reason to revisit the N64 now outside of nostalgia.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on February 09, 2015, 01:50:50 AM
I'm no fan of Wii U, I don't like the direction of the system and think the games are not as good as past games, and even ignoring the huge hole of third-party titles Nintendo haven't released as many games on it either. I don't think the library's bad overall though, just "good" instead of "great." No real stand-outs yet, but of course there are still some things to come. And I'd certainly rather have it than a PS4 or XBONE.
I'll list all systems I've owned just to put everything into perspective, in the order I like them today:
Wii - giant variety of unique and fun games Nintendo 64 - a huge revolution, still awesome Super Nintendo - refined the concepts introduced on NES into great things Nintendo DS - similar to Wii, big variety, plus lots of RPGs. Nintendo 3DS - doesn't quite live up to DS but still cool GameCube - a painful generation during its time, a bit better after the fact PlayStation 2 - lots of games yet nothing too special Wii U - this'll probably move up but for now, not impressed Sega Genesis - definitely not as good as SNES but it still has some decent exclusives Game Boy Advance - too many ports, but still a few goodies NES - extremely important to history, but not really fun anymore PlayStation 1 - never been a fan, most games not worth it today Game Boy Color - not sure if this counts as its own thing Game Boy - too primitive for my taste, need colour Xbox - never really liked anything besides Halo and Fusion Frenzy
Poor Wii U wouldn't even rank if I included non-Nintendo consoles that would look something like this.
1. SNES- Greatest console ever 2. Playstation 1- spiritual successor to SNES 3. Sega Genesis- almost as good as SNES but lacking in a few key areas 4.Atari 2600- classic console that introduced gaming to many and launched some classic franchises plus still tons of fun today 5. Game Cube- tragic underdog, had better 3rd party support than gets credit for but DVD/Online features drag it down 6. PS2- technically better than Game Cube but I didn't have one when they were new so you can swap these around but nostalgia plays a role. 7. NES- Nostalgia alone keeps it in the top ten but in time that will fade. 8. GBA- between the B/C with regular Game Boy and the great e-Reader stuff GBA had the best port of the Best Super Mario Game ever made. 9. DS- Pretty strong library (this includes 3DS to some extent altough that version I never had) 10. Dreamcast As a former Die hard Sega Fanatic I have to hold onto this unsung masterpiece 11. PC- even if you strip away emulators and Steam PC has the largest and most flexible library bar none. What drags it down is WINDOWS sucks, and its competition isn't smart enough to be serious option for gaming plus keyboards are terrible controllers and sure they are customizable but often configuring all those games with all those joysticks is a nightmare. 12. Arcade if you were alive in the 80's and 90's you know what I mean if not poor you. 13. Game Boy (and color) Classic Tetris alone gets it a spot on the list 14. Game Gear (because it can also play SMS and had a TV Tuner it was the PSP of its day) 15. Sega CD/32X Sonic CD and Lunar alone make it a must have but throw in Mortal Kombat CD, Earth Worm Jim, Ecco the Dolphin and even Sewer Shark why not its still fun plus it plays those Karaoke discs 16. PS3- best multimedia machine ever created, best Netflix player top of the line Blu Ray player and plays great video games 17. Sega Saturn, a few hidden gems and arcade hits that still can't be played anywhere else. 18. Commodore 64- just check out the library and if you were a kid in the 80's chances are you had one or knew someone who did. 19. Xbox 360 20. Wii U
by the time you get down to where Wii U might show up **** most have stopped reading and/or caring.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 09, 2015, 06:20:40 AM
Do you seriously thin kone or two games justifies a higher spot on a list?
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Shaymin on February 09, 2015, 07:38:06 AM
The correct order is SNES, N64, Wii U, Wii, NES, Virtual Boy, Gamecube.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on February 09, 2015, 09:24:44 AM
1. Snes That might just be the nostalgia typing or Super Metroid
2. GameCube Best overall Top 10-15 games on any nintendo System not named 3DS
3. WiiU Projected based on the software that is slated to release might even jump to 2nd place if StarFox and Metroid X are that good
4. Wii / Nes Could never choose between the 2 as for me they parallel each other in terms of gems vs junk ratio and the overall impact that these iconic systems had on the public.
6. N64 Perhaps being in last place is not indicative to just how much magic the '64' produced. Mario 64 was a Tangible Magical Experience, Goldeneye changed me as a gamer and Ocarina of Time is still the greatest experience I've had in any media (Books, Tv, Music and Movies)
*If this list included handhelds then the 3DS would be at the top of this list.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: broodwars on February 09, 2015, 12:07:26 PM
... There was a point in the Wii life where I was playing and enjoying more Gamecube games than Wii games easily.
Same here. But now, with both consoles having completed their time in the sun, the number of Wii games that I have played and/or want to play far outnumbers the GameCube games I will ever care about.
GameCube isn't a bad system. It's just not as good as Wii on any level - even without taking into account that Wii gives you access to the entire GameCube library.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Mop it up on February 09, 2015, 06:13:32 PM
Do you seriously thin kone or two games justifies a higher spot on a list?
if that was directed at me, I take the WHOLE package into consideration in my ranking, that includes nostalgia, form factor, how much fun I had with the console verses how much it pissed me off, game library that interests me, commercials, bonus non-gaming features. Still to this day Nintendo lacks their competition in non-gaming features and its pretty much been that way for them since the beginning. I also combine Sega CD and 32X into one console but realistically I don't consider those consoles I usually just lump them in with Genesis and that usually places it tied with PS1. If taken separately Sega CD and 32X would be far beneath both Wii U, Wii, and even N64.
I loved N64 when it was new but I also had a PS1 at the same time and aside from Mario 64 and OOT I hardly played the N64, occassionally I would get together with friends for the multiplayer games bu literally every milti player game on the console has a vastly superior counterpart on modern hardware so no point in revisiting primitive versions.
With Atari, for comparisons sake, even if you remove the games that can be played elsewhere that machine still had a **** ton of amazing games exclusive to the unit, plus the little touches like the controller, BIG nostalgia factor but also historical significance plays into it to for me at least.
IF I was just going by game selection alone, SNES and NES would be the ONLY Nintendo console to rank all others their single libraries pretty much suck. N64 and Wii U being the worst in terms of Libraries. And honestly YES Wii is a better console, I had more fun with it and I actually enjoyed it a lot for a brief period, Wii U outside of a couple games it still trash, BUT Wii U *IS* a Wii so its still technically superior even if just barely and being able to play Game Cube games is negated by the lack of GB-Player and the Virtual Console mostly makes up for it anyways.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 10, 2015, 05:20:55 AM
SNES Wii This system made gaming a fun event for any gathering...no other system has done that N64 so many great classics Gamecube NES
Can't rate the Wii U
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Phil on February 10, 2015, 06:25:22 AM
I didn't care for the NES despite being my first home console. Too many games were "Nintendo hard", gave me a headache, and games in most of the series that started on the NES saw better sequels on later Nintendo platforms.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 10, 2015, 07:12:56 AM
Wii - Don't know what some of you people are smoking to rate this console poorly.
I could say the same thing about the N64, such an awesome system! But at least we agree on the Wii. *high fives* ...
*high five for Wii*
I feel bad about being down on N64 - but there just aren't enough games that I actually go back and play on the console these days to rate it higher. Most of my favorites have either seen improved sequels or ports, with Virtual Console on Wii giving me access to others... so the system has kind been neglected and (perhaps unfairly) forgotten.
Don't let my rating get you down though - hearing why people love different consoles is the fun part of these discussions. :)
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 10, 2015, 10:22:01 AM
Wii - Don't know what some of you people are smoking to rate this console poorly.
I could say the same thing about the N64, such an awesome system! But at least we agree on the Wii. *high fives* ...
*high five for Wii*
I feel bad about being down on N64 - but there just aren't enough games that I actually go back and play on the console these days to rate it higher. Most of my favorites have either seen improved sequels or ports, with Virtual Console on Wii giving me access to others... so the system has kind been neglected and (perhaps unfairly) forgotten.
Don't let my rating get you down though - hearing why people love different consoles is the fun part of these discussions. :)
Some of the N64's greatest titles aren't available on any other service, which makes me very upset. But I suppose that's the downside of Virtual Console- it does actually take effort to put a game on there.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Phil on February 10, 2015, 10:27:39 AM
Without Rare, the N64 wouldn't be so loved by me. My favorite games comes from Rare: Diddy Kong Racing (best kart racer EVER!), Perfect Dark (my favorite FPS), Banjo-Kazooie (my favorite collect-a-thon platformer), Banjo-Tooie, GoldenEye 007, Jet Force Gemini, among many others.
The wait between games was so very long with the N64, which puts it over the NES but below everything else.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on February 10, 2015, 11:09:50 AM
*If this list included handhelds then the 3DS would be at the top of this list.
Do you really think the 3DS is that good? I mean, I love the hell out of mine, but I think the DS had a better library.
Yes I do. My gaming taste have changed over the years so this may be a reflection of my evolving pallet. The DS' library is outstanding and I have countless games to prove it but if I could only pick 1 system for the rest of my life it would be the 3DS.
Check this out http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?t=958813 (http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?t=958813) (neogaf)
It helps that the BC with the DS is perfect but segregated titles goes to the 3DS
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Phil on February 10, 2015, 11:23:06 AM
I think by the end of the 3DS's life, it will have a better library than DS, and that's thanks to the eShop in addition to the retail titles on it.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 10, 2015, 01:50:23 PM
Like I said, I love my 3Ds, but it's lacking in a ton of areas. Most of the titles in that thread you posted are the -only- titles. There's nothing else. Gone are the metroidvanias, the obscure RPGs, the random title that delivers. Those that are there exist in such small number compared to the DS. While I can truthfully say some of my favorite games in recent memory have been played on my 3DS, I am constantly eying a used DS title here and there, and when I do take the plunge I am always satisfied. I've had quite a few bitter experiences on the 3DS and I just don't feel that way with the DS.
2013 was an amazing year for the 3DS but it feels like that was the best year it's going to have. There's not much to get excited about in the future of the console.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 10, 2015, 02:28:23 PM
I'm not counting VC releases as part of the Wii unless that was it's first way to play the game in your region (ie: in North America you need to own a Wii to play Sin & Punishment). Backwards compatibility doesn't count either. You buy a console for the new games it provides. I'm also doing this somewhat in the context of when the system was current. I rarely play N64 now because the games look so dated but historically it had some very impressive games. I'm not including the Wii U because I don't own one and because its story is still being written.
SNES - My favourite console. It has the best Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Mega Man, Contra and Final Fantasy. 2D gaming perfected. So what's better? 2D or 3D? Well in the context of Nintendo it doesn't matter. Nintendo had well balanced consoles with strong third party support in the 2D era but not in 3D. To me that tips the scales.
NES - Nintendo's peak in regards to third party support. Many of Nintendo's more popular series debuted here. Unfortunately the games are a lot rougher around the edges than their SNES counterparts and outright bullshit difficulty is common. It's just not as enjoyable as the SNES. But I wouldn't fault someone for making it number one. It was so popular that videogames were called "playing Nintendo" at the time.
N64 - This one was pretty disappointing because Nintendo turned off third parties by going with cartridges. So you pretty much were going just on first party releases but the first party games almost always were amazing. Nintendo adapted to the switch to 3D better than anyone with an outright 100% success record. I consider this Nintendo's peak as a game developer. They had to support the system themselves and they actually did a pretty good job. Practically every first party release was GOTY stuff. While I think their SNES highs were higher, they were more consistently great during this time. You waited around for a new game but it was always worth it. Unfortunately for all the creativity and innovation those N64 games showed, they're pretty dated and hard to look at now.
Gamecube - In theory this seems like it should top the N64. It had better third party support and the first party titles aren't as dated. But Nintendo was a little off this gen. Zelda and Mario are both kind of meh efforts for example. I found that many ideas like FLUDD, the cel-shaded Wind Waker graphics and the double karts in Mario Kart felt like Nintendo had burned out their best ideas on the N64 but felt they had to make their games stand out so they introduced these sort of forced ideas that never gelled right. Metroid Prime however is a big exception. It's still a great system, just lacking the variety of the 2D systems and the consistent first party output of the N64.
Wii - The dud. The one console here that I consider a bad product. Dumbed down game design, a mountain of shovelware from third parties and horrible controls shoehorned into damn near every game. For me the Wii was about fighting the **** controls to get to the good game hidden inside. Even truly great games like the Mario Galaxy games still had annoying waggle elements and both had borderline unplayable levels involving riding an animal and steering with motion controls. And while Nintendo seemed to be forcing themselves to be innovative on the Cube, they largely gave up here and routinely released generic cookie-cutter sequels where mapping a button press to a remote shake was their idea of "innovation". There are some great games that use the CC and the VC was great for getting some old titles localized for the first time so the console isn't completely worthless. Still this system was so unsatisfying to own that I actually bought a competing console midway through the generation.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Mop it up on February 10, 2015, 05:36:43 PM
I don't feel the 3DS lives up to the DS, but it's also the freakin' DS. That's an incredible legacy to have to live up to, with crazy sales and a massive library. Even just comparing the first four years of each, I feel the DS wins it out. But the 3DS is still a good system and definitely worth having.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on February 10, 2015, 09:23:46 PM
Like I said, I love my 3Ds, but it's lacking in a ton of areas. Most of the titles in that thread you posted are the -only- titles. There's nothing else. Gone are the metroidvanias, the obscure RPGs, the random title that delivers. Those that are there exist in such small number compared to the DS. While I can truthfully say some of my favorite games in recent memory have been played on my 3DS, I am constantly eying a used DS title here and there, and when I do take the plunge I am always satisfied. I've had quite a few bitter experiences on the 3DS and I just don't feel that way with the DS.
2013 was an amazing year for the 3DS but it feels like that was the best year it's going to have. There's not much to get excited about in the future of the console.
Very interesting. I'll admit to the Metroidvaina's being missing although that Steam Digger 3DS was pretty awesome.
Wii - The dud. The one console here that I consider a bad product. Dumbed down game design, a mountain of shovelware from third parties and horrible controls shoehorned into damn near every game. For me the Wii was about fighting the **** controls to get to the good game hidden inside. Even truly great games like the Mario Galaxy games still had annoying waggle elements and both had borderline unplayable levels involving riding an animal and steering with motion controls. And while Nintendo seemed to be forcing themselves to be innovative on the Cube, they largely gave up here and routinely released generic cookie-cutter sequels where mapping a button press to a remote shake was their idea of "innovation". There are some great games that use the CC and the VC was great for getting some old titles localized for the first time so the console isn't completely worthless. Still this system was so unsatisfying to own that I actually bought a competing console midway through the generation.
I actually understand this and agree on some points. It wasn't a dud and there are plenty of gems in catalog you just have to dig a bit deeper
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 11, 2015, 01:01:22 AM
Y'all are insane who are ranking the Wii super low. It's a treasure trove of excellent titles by itself, but also has a deep bench of well-worthwhile "7/10" games that actively experiment with the medium and even invent new genres. There hasn't been a library as rich and varied since the SNES. But no, gur, waggle, gur, clearly game inputs were completely perfected with the introduction of the analog stick. With touch-only phone games cannibalizing the industry, and much hope pumped into AR and VR "revolutions", you really think motion controls were a dead end? Only inasmuch as the increasingly niche "hardcore" video game environment refuses to become a true mass medium.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 11, 2015, 02:10:10 AM
In terms of Nintendo handhelds I'd say the DS and 3DS take the top two spots, though the Game Boy Color still gives the 3DS a run for its money.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 11, 2015, 02:12:00 AM
There hasn't been a library as rich and varied since the SNES. But no, gur, waggle, gur, clearly game inputs were completely perfected with the introduction of the analog stick.
All I ever hear when it comes to Wii is the Rainfall Trio, GCN remakes, Mario titles, and the occasional third party gem. But outside of that, I can't think of anything else that enriches the system's library.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: ejamer on February 11, 2015, 08:28:14 AM
All I ever hear when it comes to Wii is the Rainfall Trio, GCN remakes, Mario titles, and the occasional third party gem. But outside of that, I can't think of anything else that enriches the system's library.
Depends on what kind of games you like, but that sounds like over simplification.
Roguelikes were a rare find until coming back into vogue recently. Wii offered several before any other console did. 2D gaming in general also saw a real resurgence on Wii (although the rise of digital distribution and indie development later brought a lot of 2D gaming to other consoles, it was not a priority there for a long time).
People bitch about motion controls - often with justification - but games like Zack and Wiki, Boom Blox, PGA Tour, Shaun White (with balance board) and other were fantastic.
Even better than motion controls was the ability to use the pointer as a cursor.
Dual analog controls might be the defacto FPS standard, but I've never gotten used to it or particularly enjoyed it - using a cursor to bring controls closer to PC standards is more accurate and (for me) more enjoyable.
Games like Trauma Center would not work nearly as well without a pointer, Dawn of Discovery also did a great job using it
I really enjoy arcade-style light gun shooters, and Wii was a renaissance for the genre. Ghost Squad, Dead Space, Resident Evil, House of the Dead and many many more.
Wii has a huge number of exclusives. A massive library that includes both improved remakes and original titles. First party games make up the cream of the crop, but there are dozens of great games available from third parties also. What exactly do you want from the Wii library?
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Phil on February 11, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
Can't agree with Zack & Wiki having good motion controls. The last few levels were impossible to do with any sort of regular accuracy, greatly detracting from the overall experience.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2015, 01:32:24 PM
If we're ranking Nintendo consoles one of them has to be in last place. Even if I wasn't so down on the Wii I could just as easily picked it as last anyway.
I find motion controls to a massive chore to play with so a console that revolves almost entirely around that concept didn't do it for me. I don't know if videogame controls have been perfected yet but motion control wasn't a concept worthy of becoming standard. We don't have to stick to one control scheme forever but we also should have to freedom to call out a new idea for being **** if we think it's ****.
I don't know what magical fairy land people that think the Wii of all consoles had decent third party support live in. To me it felt like third parties were talking down to us like us Wii owners can't handle the "big kid" games and had to have simplified fluff with tacked on motion controls. Third parties truly treated the Wii as if it was the casual console, suitable only for dumbed down bullshit, with a dishonest attitude of "these rubes will buy anything".
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: ejamer on February 11, 2015, 02:27:43 PM
Can't agree with Zack & Wiki having good motion controls. The last few levels were impossible to do with any sort of regular accuracy, greatly detracting from the overall experience.
This is a fair point - the penultimate level in particular had one item that was required but absolutely terrible to user. However, the overall experience was still a very good one for me, and motion controls enhanced the experience more often than they harmed it.
Ian Sane will never agree with my opinion because he loathes the Wii, but that's fine. Unlike him, I judge a console on all functionality - backwards compatibility and virtual console matter to me - and that gives Wii a significant boost in my rankings. Third party Wii support was a token effort in many cases, but an insane install base meant Wii saw support anyway. It had quite a few games worth playing, and more importantly offered games that were different experiences from the "big kid" games that other platforms got. For me, that difference was a much needed breath of fresh air compared to the stale designs dominating other consoles. Without Wii, I probably wouldn't have gotten back into gaming at all.
That said, Ian Sane doesn't need to be such a jerk about it. You have freedom to call things as you see them, but when people say "I like this" and your response is "that's ****" that's an example of you failing to be reasonable or respectful.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 11, 2015, 04:04:26 PM
Since I never gave a full list, I will now.
1. Wii: A lot of people are shitting on it, but I don't think any other Nintendo console offers that kind of breadth, especially in my personal favorite genre, platformers. Also home to the best versions of games like Metroid Prime, Pikmin, and Resident Evil 4.
2. Wii U: Limited library, but some truly exceptional games. The epitome of the old Nintendo fan's adage of "quality over quantity."
3. Nintendo 64: Similar to the Wii U, but not quite up to its level in my opinion.
4. GameCube: Good variety, but doesn't quite hit the heights of the aforementioned systems, especially with its best games often being better elsewhere.
5. NES: Dated in a lot of ways, but some absolute classics.
6: SNES: Massively overrated.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2015, 05:20:35 PM
That said, Ian Sane doesn't need to be such a jerk about it. You have freedom to call things as you see them, but when people say "I like this" and your response is "that's ****" that's an example of you failing to be reasonable or respectful.
Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful. I was actually responding more to "Y'all are insane who are ranking the Wii super low" from higher up.
Oh and J.P. is the guy who doesn't like Super Mario World, right? So his low ranking of the SNES isn't surprising.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Khushrenada on February 11, 2015, 06:10:07 PM
To me, ranking systems is an idea that has pretty much become extinct since the GameCube era. How does one rank systems nowadays? By their impact on the market? By sales? By other functionality? By controller? By color?
Most of the time, it is based on the library for that system. But does that mean one should include or exclude those other factors? Look how many people have to give different criteria as to how they are making their rankings. The more common or accepted method is probably the one Ian outlines by software library and by the elimination of previously released titles as mentioned here:
Quote
I'm not counting VC releases as part of the Wii unless that was it's first way to play the game in your region (ie: in North America you need to own a Wii to play Sin & Punishment). Backwards compatibility doesn't count either. You buy a console for the new games it provides.
Yet why is it so necessary to be strict? Why should it matter what was released when? Because then Wii or Wii U would be the best console? Great. That's how it should be. A newer console should be better than the last one.
In the past, console rankings made sense especially when there was so much software that was tied to one system. But in the past decade, so much of the software from the early generation systems has become more easily available or re-released on newer systems that it's rendered them more and more obsolete. I haven't turned on my NES in maybe 6 or 7 years. I haven't played my SNES in possibly 4 years and that's most likely the same with my N64. Part of that is because I've played most of the games I own for those systems pretty thoroughly. Part of it is because there are so many new games to play. However, being able to just play them all on one system or in a re-released form has also made a big difference in my not using them anymore.
In the past, when I could only play Super Metroid, Kirby Superstar, or Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars on my SNES, then the system had a more concrete advantage when comparing it to a system like the GameCube. It's still just ranking games but because those games were tied to one system, it made the system important. But now that I can or could play those games on the Wii or Wii U, it erodes the whole idea of ranking consoles based on their software.
EarthBound was an SNES release but I'll be playing it on my Wii U and that is how I'll first experience it. (Besides briefly trying it on my PC from downloading a ROM of it.) Punch Out and Super Punch Out were both experienced on the Wii for me. So does that mean I should rank them on the Wii console side or that counts as points for the NES and SNES side? Does it matter? Ian mentions Sin and Punishment 64 as being a Wii Title since that was the first way North Americans could really experience it. So, is release date what really matters? Should it be?
If a person plays EarthBound for the first time on the Wii U, shouldn't it count as a Wii U title? If I play Super Mario World on the Wii U, isn't that Wii U software since it is on the system and I've chosen to play it with that console instead of my SNES? I used to buy older games for my SNES and N64 until the Wii came out. After it came out, if there were games for those systems I wanted still, I just got them off the Virtual Console. It didn't make sense for me to try and track down the old physical copies of these games at a higher cost when I could play the same thing at a cheaper cost and more convenient set-up. What happens when a game is re-made and re-released with improvements over the original? Does that make Wind Waker a GC title or a Wii U title?
When it comes to Nintendo consoles, as far as I'm concerned, the only ones you need to still own are the 64 because of the Rare software mainly, the GameCube because most of it's library is still tied to that system and the Wii U since you can play all Wii games on the Wii U and it has the Wii shop all tied into that system also. With the virtual console and game companies re-releasing software most other consoles are rather obsolete. For handhelds, maybe the GBA depending on how that VC grows on the Wii U (although an older DS could play those GBA games as well) and a 3DS.
It is sad to say since I loved my SNES for a decade until the GameCube finally won me over about 9 years ago. But nowadays, when I look at a systems software, I ask what can it give me that I can't get already. Bubsy 2 doesn't really cut it. I may encourage someone to try a bunch of SNES classics but I wouldn't really tell them to get an SNES since most of the games I'd recommend could be played on the Wii U. A ranking of consoles is really a ranking of where game design is/was at. As more and more games get re-released or remade and offered on more and more different consoles, trying to tie down software to a certain console or restrict where it "truly belongs to" seems to be an outdated method to praise or criticise a game console in an increasingly irrelevant and obsolete competition based solely on furthering an individual's opinions and agenda. In other words, business as usual at NWR! ;)
It is something I find myself less and less concerned with the more time passes.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Khushrenada on February 11, 2015, 06:19:53 PM
Also, I don't know why everyone is trying to be so restrictive of excluding handheld's and their software from how they are ranking things. The original post ranks the consoles according to the access some had to handheld libraries which sort of further proves my statement that what matters about a console is how much software it can access or give access to and not just what new games it offered during its lifetime.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Ian Sane on February 11, 2015, 07:44:58 PM
I decided to judge the consoles based on what new games they introduced because I have all my old systems and games. So for me the Wii being backwards compatible with the Gamecube doesn't matter because I have a Gamecube. I didn't buy a Wii to play my Gamecube games or to rebuy NES/SNES/N64 games I already owned. I bought a Wii to experience the new games the Wii brought to the table. If I bought a new console and the only titles worth owning were all old games that debuted on difference systems I would feel ripped off. I'm also looking at from a historical perspective and in that context describing Earthbound as a Wii U title makes no sense. It feels to me like including a greatest hits album as a band's best album. That would be technically accurate but it destroys the conversation. Imagine doing this with Playstations? A backwards compatible PS3 is the best Playstation. The end.
Now I would consider "what consoles are worth owning today" as a different discussion. In that context the Wii U would rank pretty high because of both its VC and the Wii one. Older consoles become less essential with each generation. That's actually a good thing because ideally we shouldn't want old games to vanish over time and they won't if they're made available on newer platforms. Or alternatively you could list what you consider the most essential games of all time and what the most efficient way to access them all using the least amount of system purchases is (of course if you included emulation then PC wins).
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Mop it up on February 11, 2015, 08:24:05 PM
Yeah, I just rank the game libraries of systems when these questions pop up because that's a lot easier than trying to establish other sorts of criteria.
That said, Ian Sane doesn't need to be such a jerk about it. You have freedom to call things as you see them, but when people say "I like this" and your response is "that's ****" that's an example of you failing to be reasonable or respectful.
Is this your first time meeting Ian Sane? Being condescending towards things he doesn't like and the people who like things he doesn't like is pretty much his MO, though I'm not always sure if he realises he's doing it.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on February 11, 2015, 10:48:15 PM
EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT SIR! In all my years I don't think I have ever heard anyone refer to the Snes as "overrated" let alone "massively". What year is it where you are and do they have coffee in your mirrored universe?
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Phil on February 11, 2015, 10:54:41 PM
SNES was awesome. It's a shame that it was during a time when my brother and I stuck to series we knew we liked. We didn't play Super Metroid, any of the Kirby games, or Chrono Trigger until much, much later! D:
The Wii was fantastic because it had AAA, AA, and A stuff, and the AA stuff was where you could find really sweet gems. The Mushroom Men, Trauma Center, We Love Golf, A Boy and His Blob, Blast Works, Opoona, Shaun White, Tatsunoko VS. Capcom, Go Vacation, Super Swing Golf, Dewy's Adventure, a whole slew of rail shooters, and so much more.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Evan_B on February 11, 2015, 11:19:02 PM
Ranking consoles often comes down to personal experience with that console, I suppose. That's what everyone seems to be getting at.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 12, 2015, 01:26:59 AM
The thing the Wii did right which will in my mind bring it to top 3 every time...is the virtual console. The Wii U hasn't done it as good...and the Xbox 360 and PS3 played catch up, because Nintendo was able to get 6-7 different console games onto the system for download play. Making them better than the originals and bringing back classic gaming to be popular again...legally. The prices were fair and I loved playing the classics over again.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 12, 2015, 01:50:15 AM
EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT SIR! In all my years I don't think I have ever heard anyone refer to the Snes as "overrated" let alone "massively". What year is it where you are and do they have coffee in your mirrored universe?
On a certain level I just said that for the reaction, but i realty don't care much for that system. Apart from Super Metroid there isn't much there that I think is really great, partially due to me not being much of a JRPG fan.
Title: Re: Wii U in the grand scheme of things.
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on February 15, 2015, 03:24:38 PM
If you didn't care for SNES how did you feel about Genesis? I ask because I was more into Genesis back then and got into Super Nintendo latter, after N64 came out in fact. That is one reason I know for me its not about nostalgia because my nostalgia is tied to Genesis. I still think Super Mario World is the best Super Mario Bros. game ever made, the second best is Super Mario 3D World which was a close second. I couldn't rank Genesis above SNES now even though I did for many years, and it was always close because I didn't care much for JRPG's either and Sega CD added quite a but of cool factor originally, its far from cool these days though.
I think that nostalgia often plays a role in some people's minds but I also think that over the years that can fluctuate, I used to rank NES much higher overall because of nostalgia but now that you can get most of its worthy while games on newer consoles and every time I go back to NES I get reminded how much the hardware sucked, with the blinking and the awful controller.
If I were ever to get back into retro gaming again I would get one of those retro knock of consoles I would never buy a REAL NES again they were junk.
I freely admit that nostalgia does play a role in my holding onto Atari though, but its also a classic that deserves much attention. As a console its better than NES because they hold up better they don't break as often the game selection is equally as varied although far more primitive, there were lots of cool space shooter games that nobody could ever sort out but they were still pretty fun.
The only game console I have no use for, period, that I would never consider buying again is CD-i, even for the fact I collect video equipment I wouldn't even want it for the role it played in the Video CD history, its a total piece of worthless garbage. Every other game console I can find some merit in.
