Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 17, 2009, 07:07:00 AM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/podcastArt.cfm?artid=18459
Episode 146: WiiWare Short Shorts
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With E3 just a few weeks out, things are pretty slow in gaming land. Hence, we have a short episode this week, starting with a relatively brief New Business. As Jon catches up with Dead Space and Super Mario Galaxy, Greg forges ahead with Rhythm Heaven and Contra Rebirth, the new WiiWare game available in Japan. Jonny and James give progress reports on de Blob and Rune Factory Frontier, respectively (though not respectfully).
After the break, it's NPD sales data time. April was a tough month for everyone, except Nintendo thanks to a big debut for DSi and continuing dominance by Wii Fit and other evergreen titles. But where are Excitebots and Rhythm Heaven, and should we be worried for them?
We close by marking the one year anniversary of WiiWare, with the goal of celebrating it better than Nintendo did (which shouldn't be hard). There's a discussion of the platform's overall accomplishments and needs, and we each highlight our favorite WiiWare games from the first year.
Next week: our annual pre-E3 bonanza!
Credits:
This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.
Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon.com, or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!
Post by: kraken613 on May 17, 2009, 11:03:38 PM
Post by: Mop it up on May 17, 2009, 11:06:44 PM
Hardcore gamers are lamers. Softcore collecting is where it's at.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 17, 2009, 11:38:31 PM
What WiiWare needs? Retail compilations.
Yeah, actually.
Quote
Softcore collecting is where it's at.
...no comment.
Post by: kraken613 on May 18, 2009, 12:22:11 AM
Post by: broodwars on May 18, 2009, 01:18:06 AM
EDIT: Nice. I see John has the same issue with Mario Galaxy that I have. Granted, I did complete the game with 120 stars anyway, but still...great to see someone else have the same issue with how the game plays.
Post by: farnham on May 18, 2009, 01:53:00 AM
Pokemon Platinum sold 805k in march and 433k in april...and was released march 22th.. i believe you said that the sales were poor but 1.238 million in little over a month sounds pretty good to me..
Post by: TheYoungerPlumber on May 18, 2009, 03:34:51 AM
I'm totally bad about WiiWare: I own maybe two WiiWare games. It's shameful, I know. I'm very happy with the game choice for the next RetroActive. I guess I'll save my thoughts on that for the proper thread.
Post by: Yoshidious on May 18, 2009, 05:45:58 AM
This is Week 4 of ExciteStrike
It may well not be mentioned on-air next week either with it beng the E3 show, but it goes on inside nevertheless...
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 18, 2009, 09:49:12 AM
About the NPD discussion
Pokemon Platinum sold 805k in march and 433k in april...and was released march 22th.. i believe you said that the sales were poor but 1.238 million in little over a month sounds pretty good to me..
Yeah, you're totally right. We didn't really cover the March NPDs in depth (that's one of the shows where I was out of town), so it didn't connect. My apologies -- it's a pretty bad factual error that led into an ultimately pointless and misguided Pokemon discussion. I guess the mania and remakes will roll on.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 18, 2009, 03:06:33 PM
Post by: Mop it up on May 18, 2009, 06:23:42 PM
Wait, seriously? Somebody agrees with me on this? Does somebody make mention of retail WiiWare on the podcast? Because if so, I might have to make this the first one I listen to.What WiiWare needs? Retail compilations.Yeah, actually.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 18, 2009, 07:04:56 PM
Wait, seriously? Somebody agrees with me on this? Does somebody make mention of retail WiiWare on the podcast? Because if so, I might have to make this the first one I listen to.What WiiWare needs? Retail compilations.Yeah, actually.
Should be listening anyway. >:(
Post by: Mop it up on May 18, 2009, 07:12:44 PM
Believe me, they are on the list of incentives to get a new computer.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 18, 2009, 09:20:49 PM
I know I should, but my computer can't handle multi-tasking and I don't have a way to listen to the podcasts on anything else.
Put it on your speakers while you play DS nearby. That's similar to what I often do, though I use my iPod and headphones.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 19, 2009, 06:07:53 AM
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 19, 2009, 10:10:15 AM
Now I may be clinically insane, and in fact I'm pretty sure I am
QFT
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2009, 01:39:46 PM
My favorite Wiiware titles are:
1. World of Goo
2. Alien Crush Returns (Fantastic pinball game to kill time)
3. Jungle Speed
Followed by a ton of other good Wii Ware titles like:
Cubello
Orbient
Space Invaders get even
Lit
Groovin Blocks
Tetris Party
Gyrostarr
Onslaught
LostWinds
Toki Tori
Strong Bad Series
Bonsai Barber
My Life as a King
Most of these are close to being in my top three. Pretty good for a "disappointing" service. And these are games that I've played, I'm sure there are others.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 19, 2009, 01:44:12 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2009, 01:49:13 PM
I don't even own half the games GoldenPhoenix mentioned and I still like all my games.
I usually buy them after I read a couple of reviews. The service, while being really slow when it comes to game releases is far better then people give it credit for. Is it perfect, or Xbox Live Arcade level yet? No but it still is far from dissapointing either when you look at the selection of good games. There are hidden gems in the collection.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 19, 2009, 02:16:42 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2009, 02:30:56 PM
I'd say that it's at least as good as XBLA; I go about as nuts with XBLA as I do on the Wii Shop but when you take away the classic games from XBLA I own more WiiWare games.
Good point, most of my XBLA games are mostly classic games.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 19, 2009, 03:17:45 PM
I always got the impression that Jungle Speed was meant to be played locally with multiple people, which doesn't often happen around my Wii.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2009, 04:05:35 PM
When we said WiiWare is disappointing (if we said that at all), we were referring to how the service is run and Nintendo's own involvement in it. I don't think any of us disparaged the game selection or the games themselves; hence the latter half of the discussion when we talked about all our favorite games. ;-)
I always got the impression that Jungle Speed was meant to be played locally with multiple people, which doesn't often happen around my Wii.
Yeah it is more of a multiplayer game but it is so much fun with great production values.
In regards to Wiiware, I agree, the most disappointing aspect is Nintendo's involvement, so if I didn't interpret that correctly then I am sorry. It does surprise me how many gems there are already though, it is a great counterbalance to something like XBLA.
Post by: Sundoulos on May 19, 2009, 04:38:24 PM
I was doing a quick search for opinions about the matter and stumbled across this blurb: N-Europe: More Developers Praise WiiWare (http://n-europe.com/news.php?nid=13113) I suppose that I have to consider that the original source of the article was Official Nintendo Magazine (http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/article.php?id=7949), but I still found some of the quotes to be interesting and encouraging.
Quote
Medaverse's Jesse Lowther, lead designer of the upcoming Gravitronix talked about the low-risk financial prospects involved with WiiWare:
"They gave us the tools we needed and let us run with it... There's no creative input from Nintendo, only technical input where the game must meet certain standards to ensure it doesn't brick people's Wiis. It's just a godsend for developers who don't want their ideas compromised. Plus, if the game doesn't sell well, we can generally shrug it off and begin work on the next one."
Semnat Studios' Daniel Coleman was also modest about working under banner of Nintendo's downloadable service:
"There are no suits trying to control your creativity. They want developers to express themselves as freely as possible... This creative freedom is vital to the growth of the industry. It encourages experimentation and risk-taking. We are very fortunate to be developing for consoles since we're such nobodies."
But why choose to develop for WiiWare over rival services like Sony's PSN? Well, Shane Guilano of Autonomous Productions (the company responsible for the forthcoming Butterfly Garden - expect to hear more about that title soon) gives a very interesting personal anecdote:
"Our company got to where we are today with perseverance, luck and the insight to develop a relationship with Nintendo when everyone still thought it was nuts to release a game system with a controller that looks like a remote control. Nintendo reached out to independent developers before the Wii was even launched in a way that was revolutionary. The whole vision for WiiWare, as Miyamoto has said publicly, is to foster this creative independent revolution. I once sat next to [former Sony exec] Phil Harrison at a Will Wright GDC talk in 2006 and he wouldn't even give me his card."
So, I suppose that even though Nintendo is making some egregious errors in the eyes of some, they are doing enough that's right to foster continued support. Here's hoping we see more WiiWare success stories soon.
I also hold out hope that not all of our complaints fall on deaf ears at Nintendo.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 19, 2009, 04:46:03 PM
Post by: gojira on May 19, 2009, 07:47:46 PM
1. Lost Winds - The only problem with the game is how short it is, other than that I loved it.
2. World of Goo
3. Mega Man 9 - I'm not a huge fan of the series, but the idea of a neo-retro title blew me away.
I own five other WiiWare games, but I don't think they're that amazing. They are Lit, Toki Tori, Tetris Party, Dr. Mario and Gyrostarr. Lit and Toki Tori are both kinda similar in that they're puzzle/adventure type games. I got through about 2/3rds of each before they lost their fun for me. I'd only recommend them to fans of the genre. I got Tetris more for my girlfriend who does play it a good deal. I thought she might also like Dr. Mario, but I guess not. I never play either game since I basically got my fill in many of the previous iterations. I definitely regret getting Gyrostarr. It's not a terrible game, but it does get boring quickly. It looked a lot like N2O (a game I loved on PSone), but it doesn't compare.
There are a handful of WiiWare games I do want to get (Orbient comes to mind), but I tend to spend that money on VC games or retail releases.
The only other game I've seen advertised in magazines (Nintendo Power) is Evasive Space.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 20, 2009, 11:12:31 AM
Post by: Crimm on May 20, 2009, 01:02:10 PM
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 21, 2009, 04:21:33 PM
Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole. But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me. I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 21, 2009, 04:42:48 PM
<shrug>
Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole. But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me. I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking, although it applied to some recent games in a certain other genre. ;)
Seriously it is WAY too early to pass judgment on Mario Galaxy after 20 stars. Also the gravitational and planetoid feature adds a brand new layor to the game and you will NOT find a experience like it elsewhere.
Post by: broodwars on May 21, 2009, 04:52:50 PM
<shrug>
Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole. But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me. I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking, although it applied to some recent games in a certain other genre. ;)
Seriously it is WAY too early to pass judgment on Mario Galaxy after 20 stars. Also the gravitational and planetoid feature adds a brand new layor to the game and you will NOT find a experience like it elsewhere.
This is actually quite true. While I'm not that hot on Mario Galaxy, the game gets dramatically better around 50-60 stars when you start really delving into the Comet Stars (especially the Purple Coin Challenged, which tend to be lovely little challenging obstacle courses). It's actually quite amusing that the game gets dramtically better after you get enough stars to beat it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 21, 2009, 05:07:16 PM
Post by: Sundoulos on May 21, 2009, 06:02:02 PM
Well, Mario Galaxy is really the same formula with different play mechanics and a much, much prettier wrapper. I love it, but I can see why other people might be jaded with it, really. I lost interest in Mario Sunshine as much because it was too similar to 64, only with an annoying (IHMO) game mechanic with additional collect-a-thon options added. At the very least, Galaxy gets my kudos because they streamlined a lot of that.
And...Galaxy...well, I just love it because of the setting, the gravity field mechanics, and the neat musical score. Playing it gave me the same feeling I had as a kid playing Super Mario Bros. 3 when I first encountered a Koopaling airship.
I'm not sure how they would really change the formula too much, though, without taking away the other elements that make it feel like a Mario game. Mario platforming has always been about just getting from point A to point B, whether it's getting to a goalpost, a key or a star.
And...please, Nintendo. Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, let Bowser Jr. go the way of the Koopalings. Feel free to bring the Koopalings back if you want, though.
Post by: Mop it up on May 21, 2009, 08:32:51 PM
And...please, Nintendo. Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, let Bowser Jr. go the way of the Koopalings. Feel free to bring the Koopalings back if you want, though.I couldn't agree more. Any one of the seven Koopalings has more personality and is less annoying than Bowser Jr. But I don't think Bowser Jr. is going anywhere, he has appeared in far too many games for that.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 21, 2009, 08:47:59 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on May 21, 2009, 10:02:37 PM
I can appreciate what Lindy is saying on an abstract level. He probably get's the same thrill playing Galaxy that I would playing Starcraft 2. Very little.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 22, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
Mario Kart Wii and SSBB had the new hook of playing online. If they didn't have that, I'd probably feel the same way about them.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2009, 01:59:44 PM
It's amazing, and probably the best 3D platformer ever released.
As long as we agree on this there's no problem.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 22, 2009, 02:29:23 PM
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on May 22, 2009, 02:35:25 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 22, 2009, 03:17:11 PM
I don't disagree, Lindy, but I still think that Greg has a point when he says that most of the FPSes released in the last 5 years fall under the same umbrella.
Most FPS games from a single player standpoint are still pretty much following the same formula Half-Life created back in 1998. Which would be fine if there weren't a truck load of FPS games released each year. The online aspect has evolved (though I do not think rewarding people who play the most so they can kill people easier is a good innovation), especially in games like the Battlefield series. Even at that though a lot of what we see in regards to online modes are pretty minimal evolutions of Half-Life deathmatch or the various mods released for it like Team Fortress, or Counter-Strike.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 22, 2009, 03:34:52 PM
Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2009, 03:38:47 PM
This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...
Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.
I'm trying to keep my expectations for E3 low to avoid disapointment and that didn't help.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 22, 2009, 03:45:25 PM
This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...
Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.
That would be very cool
Post by: broodwars on May 22, 2009, 05:55:37 PM
This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...
Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.
That would be very cool
Yeah, it would be so long as you could still play the game competently solo as well. Wouldn't want a repeat of Resident Evil 5's idiotic Sheva AI during offline play (which really hurts the experience), would we?
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 23, 2009, 01:33:12 PM
When you compare Super Mario 64 to Super Mario Galaxy, the featureset hasn't expanded that much. Not that it has to - Galaxy is undoubtedly an amazing achievement - but when I speak of my initial "meh" reaction to the game this is a primary reason. It's certainly a very innovative game, but I feel like it's innovative within the boundaries of the 1996 formula. It doesn't expand that formula into other areas like co-op (the ability to have one person use the Wii Remote isn't true co-op in my opinion, and is more of a neat bonus), or any sort of online play. That's what I mean when I say that I feel like I've seen Super Mario Galaxy before. It's because there isn't anything in the game that I feel is 100% new or groundbreaking; it's just the old formula executed to absolute perfection. And that's awesome, but I think it'll be appreciated more by gamers that haven't played Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine, so that newness is still there.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 23, 2009, 03:02:00 PM
EDIT: I just realized that Lindy's reaction to Galaxy is basically the same as my reaction to Super Mario World.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 23, 2009, 04:32:51 PM
Yeah, it would be so long as you could still play the game competently solo as well. Wouldn't want a repeat of Resident Evil 5's idiotic Sheva AI during offline play (which really hurts the experience), would we?
I don't think Star Fox friendly AI could get much worse.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 23, 2009, 08:59:32 PM
If we'd gotten as many platformers in the last decade as we've gotten FPSs there'd be that kind of innovation in the genre. Sadly the genre is next to nonexistant outside of Nintendo these days, especially the 3D variety.
Totally agree.
EDIT: I just realized that Lindy's reaction to Galaxy is basically the same as my reaction to Super Mario World.
Do you mean in comparison to Super Mario Bros. 3? I can see that. I didn't buy Super Mario Bros. 3 when it was released (in fact, I've never beaten it), but I played the heck out of Super Mario World. When I went back to play SMB3 when it came to VC, I couldn't believe how similar it was to SMW. It felt like I was playing SMW all over again.
Post by: broodwars on May 23, 2009, 09:08:02 PM
Yeah, it would be so long as you could still play the game competently solo as well. Wouldn't want a repeat of Resident Evil 5's idiotic Sheva AI during offline play (which really hurts the experience), would we?
I don't think Star Fox friendly AI could get much worse.
Sheva's AI in RE5 is right down there with Slippy's, only worse because she's wasting your ammo and your health items when she's being an idiot. She won't even use any other weapon than her frickin' pistol, and when she's low on ammo she races ahead of you and breaks item crates open so she can take the ammo before you can (and it's not easy getting the ammo back cleanly once she gets it). When surrounded by enemies she stands there and just shoots instead of retreating to get a better shooting angle, and when she dies YOU lose. At least with Star Fox AI, you only had Slippy to deal with and him getting shot down usually had no real damaging impact on your playing experience (in fact, it usually improved it since you didn't have to hear some squeeky 30-year old doing their worst 10-year old boy impression).
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 23, 2009, 09:33:17 PM
If we'd gotten as many platformers in the last decade as we've gotten FPSs there'd be that kind of innovation in the genre. Sadly the genre is next to nonexistant outside of Nintendo these days, especially the 3D variety.
Totally agree.EDIT: I just realized that Lindy's reaction to Galaxy is basically the same as my reaction to Super Mario World.
Do you mean in comparison to Super Mario Bros. 3? I can see that. I didn't buy Super Mario Bros. 3 when it was released (in fact, I've never beaten it), but I played the heck out of Super Mario World. When I went back to play SMB3 when it came to VC, I couldn't believe how similar it was to SMW. It felt like I was playing SMW all over again.
Yeah, for me it was just the other way around. SMB3 is my all time favorite game and you'd think something so similar would be great for me but I never really got into World despite playing through it multiple times. On the other hand Super Mario 64 is in my top 5 and Galaxy, something very similar, has joined it there.
Post by: vudu on May 31, 2009, 05:20:41 PM
I didn't buy Super Mario Bros. 3 when it was released (in fact, I've never beaten it)
Are you fucking kidding me?!?! The director of Nintendo World Report hasn't beaten Super Mario Bros 3 or Mario Galaxy? This calls for mutiny!!!
Post by: NWR_Lindy on June 07, 2009, 02:54:34 PM
And yeah, I gotta beat Mario Galaxy. It's a hole in my resume for sure.
