Sony is to slash more than 16,000 permanent and part-time jobs from its worldwide electronics division and raise prices for its gadgets in the face of dwindling consumer spending.
The draconian restructuring scheme, which will also see Sony shedding an unspecified number of “unprofitable or non-core” divisions from its sprawling portfolio, is the biggest of its sort announced in Asia since the financial crisis took hold of the world economy.
It is, however expected to set the tone for similar moves by Sony’s domestic and regional rivals, and even the likes of Samsung and LG, which have been less damaged by currency -related carnage.
I think it is very possible that Sony may soon decide to get out of the video gaming business. The PS3 is costing them badly, and with the economy being as bad as it is they may have to either sell the Playstation line to another company (perhaps Microsoft), or perhaps spin it off into a new entity.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Plugabugz on December 09, 2008, 07:47:45 PM
I have an idea. Make a console that MAKES PROFIT.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 09, 2008, 07:50:51 PM
I think it is very possible that Sony may soon decide to get out of the video gaming business. The PS3 is costing them badly, and with the economy being as bad as it is they may have to either sell the Playstation line to another company (perhaps Microsoft), or perhaps spin it off into a new entity.
Wrong, Lindy says that MS and Sony won't go anywhere, they care too much about gaming. ;)
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 09, 2008, 08:10:07 PM
I think it is very possible that Sony may soon decide to get out of the video gaming business. The PS3 is costing them badly, and with the economy being as bad as it is they may have to either sell the Playstation line to another company (perhaps Microsoft), or perhaps spin it off into a new entity.
Wrong, Lindy says that MS and Sony won't go anywhere, they care too much about gaming. ;)
Eh, I don't really think the Playstation brand will die...However, I do foresee some new heads taking control of the videogame division, and most likely a new outlook on how to take the next generation of consoles...
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 09, 2008, 08:13:21 PM
I think it is very possible that Sony may soon decide to get out of the video gaming business. The PS3 is costing them badly, and with the economy being as bad as it is they may have to either sell the Playstation line to another company (perhaps Microsoft), or perhaps spin it off into a new entity.
Wrong, Lindy says that MS and Sony won't go anywhere, they care too much about gaming. ;)
Eh, I don't really think the Playstation brand will die...However, I do foresee some new heads taking control of the videogame division, and most likely a new outlook on how to take the next generation of consoles...
I hope so, and maybe they can actually focus on creating industry changing games. Right now Sony has no recognizable franchise that people drool after like Halo or Nintendo's various ones. It is quite sad actually considering how long they've been in the industry now.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Deguello on December 09, 2008, 08:15:10 PM
Quote
Actually, I've heard that none of these cuts are really on the videogame side of things?
Well they certainly aren't going to say so outright, Karion. I don't forsee Sony getting out of videogames, but consoles... maybe.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 09, 2008, 08:18:50 PM
I hope so, and maybe they can actually focus on creating industry changing games. Right now Sony has no recognizable franchise that people drool after like Halo or Nintendo's various ones. It is quite sad actually considering how long they've been in the industry now.
What's this? No love for sackboy?
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 09, 2008, 08:36:06 PM
I hope so, and maybe they can actually focus on creating industry changing games. Right now Sony has no recognizable franchise that people drool after like Halo or Nintendo's various ones. It is quite sad actually considering how long they've been in the industry now.
What's this? No love for sackboy?
As we have seen Sackboy was a Sackdud sales wise. Not to mention I'm talking about established and anticipated franchises which Sony has none of. Who is their mascot? Heck if I know. What is their big first party franchise? Beats me. What game showcases Sony's soul? I sure don't see one.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 09, 2008, 08:39:42 PM
Actually, I've heard that none of these cuts are really on the videogame side of things?
Well they certainly aren't going to say so outright, Karion. I don't forsee Sony getting out of videogames, but consoles... maybe.
Agreed. This was actually how it used to be before Sony backstabbed Nintendo and released the original playstation. I'm not sure what the games were back then, but Sony started off as a 3rd party developer. They also made some components for the SNES, but that was about it. If they got out of the hardware business they'd just be like how they used to be, or how SEGA is now.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 09, 2008, 08:42:57 PM
Sony's too hardcore for mascots!
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 09, 2008, 08:43:25 PM
As we have seen Sackboy was a Sackdud sales wise. Not to mention I'm talking about established and anticipated franchises which Sony has none of. Who is their mascot? Heck if I know.
I don't know who it is now, but I do know who it used to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTi5EaocGaY
Which is pretty lame, because now Crash has whored himself out to the competitors by appearing on their consoles. At least Mario only sticks to Nintendo hardware like a loyal mascot should.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 09, 2008, 08:50:22 PM
I do think one of the main reasons why Sony is struggling is because they've relied too much on "me too" syndrome with the majority of their bigger games. They've relied on trends far too much and it has hurt them when it comes to differentiating themselves from MS or Nintendo.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 09, 2008, 09:01:28 PM
raise prices for its gadgets in the face of dwindling consumer spending.
So the PS3 is going to be even MORE expensive?
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 09, 2008, 09:23:51 PM
PS3 sales aren't helping them, but they've long said they're losing money on their LCD TVs as well. Right now Sony is like Microsoft without the cash cow that is the Windows OS. Actually, the PS3 is the least of their worries right now, because they aren't making money with the products that they SHOULD be cleaning up with.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: King of Twitch on December 09, 2008, 09:28:11 PM
enough talk about mascots, this is how we got here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqzB_nJMMOk
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 09, 2008, 09:30:39 PM
As we have seen Sackboy was a Sackdud sales wise. Not to mention I'm talking about established and anticipated franchises which Sony has none of. Who is their mascot? Heck if I know.
I don't know who it is now, but I do know who it used to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTi5Eaoc***
Which is pretty lame, because now Crash has whored himself out to the competitors by appearing on their consoles. At least Mario only sticks to Nintendo hardware like a loyal mascot should.
Actually, Sony could use Kratos as their mascot. The genocidal demigod couldn't possibly scare off more potential customers than those initial crying baby PS3 commercials.
I do think one of the main reasons why Sony is struggling is because they've relied too much on "me too" syndrome with the majority of their bigger games. They've relied on trends far too much and it has hurt them when it comes to differentiating themselves from MS or Nintendo.
Whereas some believe that Nintendo suffers from too little of a "Me Too" impulse.
PS3 sales aren't helping them, but they've long said they're losing money on their LCD TVs as well. Right now Sony is like Microsoft without the cash cow that is the Windows OS. Actually, the PS3 is the least of their worries right now, because they aren't making money with the products that they SHOULD be cleaning up with.
I don't really follow electronics outside videogames...Has there been a specific set of products that Sony has generally dominated?
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 09, 2008, 09:40:49 PM
PS3 sales aren't helping them, but they've long said they're losing money on their LCD TVs as well. Right now Sony is like Microsoft without the cash cow that is the Windows OS. Actually, the PS3 is the least of their worries right now, because they aren't making money with the products that they SHOULD be cleaning up with.
I don't really follow electronics outside videogames...Has there been a specific set of products that Sony has generally dominated?
Betamax!
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 09, 2008, 09:51:23 PM
PS3 sales aren't helping them, but they've long said they're losing money on their LCD TVs as well. Right now Sony is like Microsoft without the cash cow that is the Windows OS. Actually, the PS3 is the least of their worries right now, because they aren't making money with the products that they SHOULD be cleaning up with.
I don't really follow electronics outside videogames...Has there been a specific set of products that Sony has generally dominated?
Betamax!
and maybe walkman's?
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 09, 2008, 09:51:49 PM
Sony needs to get out of video gaming and go back to what they do best: trying in vain to impose new proprietary media formats on everyone. They got lucky with Blu-ray, but I guess if you keep trying something over and over again eventually you'll be successful once in awhile. But despite their victory over HD-DVD, they are in the crapper right now. Whodda thunk it? Looks like the Blu-ray victory was a Pyhrric one at best.
But I think a big problem with Sony (and to a lesser extent with MS) is these companies have too much stuff going on at once, so the left hand hasn't any clue what the right one is doing. With Nintendo this has never been a problem because Nintendo has only ever done gaming and never anything else, but Sony and MS only see gaming as a means to an end. They don't see it as a major revenue source the way Nintendo does, but instead as a way to take over your living rooms...
And I think that is why they are failing now and why Nintendo is succeeding.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 09, 2008, 10:22:54 PM
If Sony gets out of gaming, maybe Sega can come back!
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 09, 2008, 10:33:54 PM
Sega Playstation.... hm...
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: oohhboy on December 09, 2008, 11:25:14 PM
The lack of mascots was just a symptom of one of it's weaknesses, the lack of games that is Sony and Sony alone. PSX had a a lot of default mascots, but they failed to capitalize and assumed they will always be good and remain exclusive to Sony. When they did start to develop their own mascots, it was far too late. They now lack the expertise, talent, market presence or vision. Sack Boy is the end result. Home isn't helping them. It's something they can't sell, nor is it something that hasn't been done before, but better. The lack of continuity opens them up every generation to new competition.
That's just the videogames division. They haven't made any cuts in movies or the PS lines. Yet.
Blue Ray has done nothing but tied them to a war they shouldn't have fought. They only needed torpedo HD-DVD so they can some out with truly superior product in the future. Now it's stuck is a war with DVD that it can't win. The HD market is confused as there is no set standard. HDMI continues to cause more problems than it solves, for marginal gains to protect something people aren't buying. Itunes and the Ipod kills them on the music stage.
Sony not being able to work around the strengthening Yen is shortsightedness at it's best. Sony is looking like the Big 3 car makers in the US.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 09, 2008, 11:32:08 PM
Sony's core market is televisions - not exactly the most recession-proof device.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 10, 2008, 12:56:44 AM
But that would mean stripping out Blu-ray and HD, and Sony's out of touch hot-shot executives have egos that are too big to let those things go.
BluRay and HD-capable GPUs are pocket change nowadays (seriously, PC BD-ROMs can be bought for like $90 now, and there's still profit being made) - the high cost comes from the Cell processor.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 12:59:27 AM
I... THINK... that Sony's game business is not in dire straits right now. Like the report said, it's their home electronics business.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on December 10, 2008, 01:05:27 AM
GO SAMSUNG
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: stevey on December 10, 2008, 01:39:14 AM
Every time when a sony employee is fired, an angle gets it wings!
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 10, 2008, 02:02:44 AM
BluRay and HD-capable GPUs are pocket change nowadays (seriously, PC BD-ROMs can be bought for like $90 now, and there's still profit being made) - the high cost comes from the Cell processor.
$90 dollars for a drive is still a LOT. In comparison, a DVD drive probably costs $10-15 to produce. So just the drive alone on a PS3 is about $100.. that's just one component of many.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 02:06:55 AM
I... THINK... that Sony's game business is not in dire straits right now. Like the report said, it's their home electronics business.
I don't think their gaming devision is healthy though. They still are in the hole with PS3. My guess is they are still losing a big chunk of cash on each unit sold with their drastic price slashing.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 10, 2008, 03:24:52 AM
Whether the PS3 is profitable or not is probably a difficult question to answer, because one cannot judge its profitability on sales figures alone. What I mean is, if it weren't for the PS3 then HD-DVD would probably have won the format war, and that would have probably cost Sony a lot more money than whatever they're going through now, but I could be very wrong on that...
Point is, even if the PS3 is never profitable for its own sake, it could still probably be thanked for making Blu-ray a "success".
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: KDR_11k on December 10, 2008, 03:29:25 AM
BluRay and HD-capable GPUs are pocket change nowadays (seriously, PC BD-ROMs can be bought for like $90 now, and there's still profit being made) - the high cost comes from the Cell processor.
Chips go down in cost fairly quickly once you hit mass production since they don't involve many exotic components like blue lasers or special motor assemplies.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Plugabugz on December 10, 2008, 06:01:03 AM
Sony are to increase the wholesale price, but play.com (i believe) have said the retail price won't increase.
I can't speak for outside the UK though..
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 10, 2008, 09:45:07 AM
Thirding that. Although I have a Sony TV now (I got it on really special special), Panasonic any other day. Having sold TVs and the like, Sony had always been over price here compared to the competition. Toshiba has some excellent LCDs for cheaper that most while maintaining quality. Panasonic is where it's at with the really large stuff which is 42inch or greater with their plasmas. However last I checked, Panasonic was still some what behind on LCD since they invested more in plasmas, but that might have changed a lot since I was last in the scene.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 10, 2008, 11:35:35 AM
I feel very bad for all the people that will be losing their jobs. Despite whether we like a company or not we should not celebrate people losing their jobs.
However, I can't believe Sony believes that in a time of economic struggle that raising the prices is the answer to increase sales and revenue. Because right now, that is exactly what consumers and electronic stores need. (Higher Prices and lower profit margins on sales.)
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 10, 2008, 01:37:30 PM
I feel very bad for all the people that will be losing their jobs. Despite whether we like a company or not we should not celebrate people losing their jobs.
However, I can't believe Sony believes that in a time of economic struggle that raising the prices is the answer to increase sales and revenue. Because right now, that is exactly what consumers and electronic stores need. (Higher Prices and lower profit margins on sales.)
I don't think anyone was celebrating that, we just didn't acknowledge it (because its a downer)
I do agree with your second point though.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: vudu on December 10, 2008, 02:03:24 PM
Sony's core market is televisions - not exactly the most recession-proof device.
What Lindy said. Additionally, they totally missed the boat on the portable mp3 player.
Moreso, while most non-PS2 Sony products are very well designed and tend to hold up very well, they're over-priced. Fifteen years ago Sony made products of much higher quality and they demanded a premium price for them. Today, competitors have caught up on the quality (and even surpassed it in some cases) but Sony still tries to charge a premium price for products that are no longer considered premium.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 10, 2008, 02:41:14 PM
Sony's core market is televisions - not exactly the most recession-proof device.
What Lindy said. Additionally, they totally missed the boat on the portable mp3 player.
Moreso, while most non-PS2 Sony products are very well designed and tend to hold up very well, they're over-priced. Fifteen years ago Sony made products of much higher quality and they demanded a premium price for them. Today, competitors have caught up on the quality (and even surpassed it in some cases) but Sony still tries to charge a premium price for products that are no longer considered premium.
I've had bad luck with Sony products then, because nothing ever held up (thought they were usually nicely designed as long as we're speaking in terms of looks).
CD Players (portable) would get sticky buttons and eventually stop working, headphones would blow out constantly or get damaged easily. The one Sony tv my family ever had crapped out on us. The old VCR was **** too. When the first reports of PS2s failing came out, it was no surprise to me.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: vudu on December 10, 2008, 03:22:50 PM
Up until last month I was using a 12-year old Sony TV that still worked perfectly. I just replaced it with a 4-year old Sony TV that also still works perfectly.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on December 10, 2008, 03:48:55 PM
Moreso, while most non-PS2 Sony products are very well designed and tend to hold up very well, they're over-priced. Fifteen years ago Sony made products of much higher quality and they demanded a premium price for them. Today, competitors have caught up on the quality (and even surpassed it in some cases) but Sony still tries to charge a premium price for products that are no longer considered premium.
I've had bad luck with Sony products then, because nothing ever held up (thought they were usually nicely designed as long as we're speaking in terms of looks).
CD Players (portable) would get sticky buttons and eventually stop working, headphones would blow out constantly or get damaged easily. The one Sony tv my family ever had crapped out on us. The old VCR was **** too. When the first reports of PS2s failing came out, it was no surprise to me.
Sony was once known for quality electronics, but they sacrificed their reputation to get costs down enough to appeal to less affluent customers. Any Sony product with moving parts became a ticking time bomb of failure. Sony only really remained a leader in the display market, but they also still charged a premium in that market (actually, they still made solid stuff in all categories at premium prices). The march of progress solved most of the quality problems, but it also brought all the competitors' quality up, too, so Sony squandered the power of their brand name for nothing.
Of course, there's more to it than that. The other big problem Sony has is that it's also a content owner, and that side of the business puts pressure on the electronics half that compromises everything they do. If you'll forgive the buzzword, it is the exact opposite of synergy. For example, it prevented Sony from protecting the portable music market it basically started with the Walkman from the iPod. More recently, it saddled the PS3 with Blu-ray.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: ThePerm on December 10, 2008, 06:19:00 PM
i don't think sony is going the way of acclaim, i think they will bounce back. I like Blue-Ray although i know one day some solid state technology related to sd cards will **** Blue-Ray over, but until that time i will continue to buy moviesl ike the dark knight on blue ray.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on December 10, 2008, 06:45:45 PM
i don't think sony is going the way of acclaim, i think they will bounce back. I like Blue-Ray although i know one day some solid state technology related to sd cards will **** Blue-Ray over, but until that time i will continue to buy moviesl ike the dark knight on blue ray.
Yeah I like my blu-ray player, I mean blu-ray player that happens to play games (aka the PS3). In fact I have a pretty big collection now and I like how durable the disks are.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 10, 2008, 07:25:20 PM
I don't touch Sony TVs these days. If I'm buying a Plasma I'm buying Panasonic, and if I'm buying LCD I'm buying Samsung. Sony's equipment has been overpriced for a LONG time, and their build quality isn't even that great any more. Ironically, for all of the sh*t the PS3 gets, it's one of the best pieces of hardware that Sony has ever produced in terms of its build quality and capabilities.
Whether it's losing money or not, the Playstation brand and the PS3 is the best thing that Sony has going right now. It's the one area of their business that still creates a buzz. Nobody cares about their TVs any more, the Walkman brand is dead, and Blu-Ray generally gets a big shrug of the shoulders from most people.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: vudu on December 10, 2008, 08:33:46 PM
I care about their TVs. :) Then again, I get them for free. ;D
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: Kairon on December 10, 2008, 08:54:23 PM
Man, Sony WAS great back in the day though. My family used to have a Sony TV from like the '80s... thing lasted like, TWENTY YEARS before it finally broke. *sniff* Sony Trinitron, rest in peace old buddy.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: NWR_Lindy on December 11, 2008, 12:39:40 AM
The 80's were Sony's golden years for sure. Their build quality was off the charts and their stuff was reasonably priced.
Title: Re: Sony axes 16,000 jobs and shuts down plants
Post by: EasyCure on December 11, 2008, 09:29:18 AM
