Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: ShyGuy on May 07, 2008, 01:13:58 AM
Title: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 07, 2008, 01:13:58 AM
Time to bust out a "controversial" topic here. The Wii doesn't need a hard drive. Consoles don't need hard drives. Let me tell you why.
1. The Future. The year is 2018. You walk into your local used game store, UncleBob is furiously digging through a bin in the corner looking for a Metallic Rose DS Lite. You go up to the counter and ask to purchase Lost Winds and Boston's More than a feeling for Rock Band 360. The clerk laughs at you and says, "THERE IS NO POSSIBLE WAY TO PURCHASE THOSE ITEMS BECAUSE NO PHYSICAL COPY EXISTS." Sure, you can hope they bring the popular titles out on the virtual console for PlayStation 5, but what about obscure stuff? What about paying for the same virtual things over and over?
2. The Patch. People are predictable. They will follow the path of least resistance most of the time. The hard drive allows "updates" for games in the future they say, it solves the problem of game bugs they say. Good Intentions. Then the publisher starts breathing down their neck, whispering "Ship now, patch later" The pressure is off the programmers, the testers. They can always patch the game in a future download. NEXT THING YOU KNOW BULLY FOR THE 360 IS A BROKEN MESS CAUSE THEY LEFT THEMSELVES AN OUT. Don't believe me? Think I'm exaggerating? Look at PC Games.
3. The Bloat. The Wii has 512mb of storage. Not enough, you're running out of room, right? The PS3 has 80gig of storage! Tons more space, you'd never run out, right? WRONG. SONY FANBOYS ARE COMPLAINING THAT THEY ARE RUNNING OUT OF SPACE. No matter how much storage you give a system, the software will bloat up and fill the available space (see the path of least resistance comment above) So even if the Wii had teh mad gigabytes, we would end filling it up with 20 minute installs of Devil May Cry 4 and Pac-Man XBL goes from less than a 100k to dozens of megabytes in size.
So there we have it, a little over dramatic in places but you get the point. Now I know that fixed storage is inevitable, and sadly it's necessary. I don't have a problem with the technology itself, but the weakness of humanity means the hard drives cause more problems than they solve when it comes to game consoles.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Kairon on May 07, 2008, 01:17:10 AM
I believe in a flash memory future.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Smoke39 on May 07, 2008, 01:36:17 AM
It's Nintendo's console, they can impose any restrictions they want on third parties regarding a hard drive (or flash or whatever they want). E.g., a "no patches" policy, or size restrictions, etc. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 07, 2008, 01:47:10 AM
I don't have a lot of faith in Nintendo's policy restrictions when it comes to the Wii so far. Plus Sony and Microsoft have size restrictions and they are still running out of space.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Adrock on May 07, 2008, 01:49:04 AM
Storage space wouldn't be as big an issue if the SD expansion slot was more useful.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: King of Twitch on May 07, 2008, 01:52:37 AM
Nintendo and technology don't mix
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 07, 2008, 02:12:24 AM
I'm sorry, I don't mean to derail my own thread here, but PLEASE CHANGE YOUR NAME BACK THE PERIOD CONFUSES ME
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 07, 2008, 02:16:03 AM
I thoroughly enjoy the ironic truth of this comment.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: RABicle on May 07, 2008, 02:23:13 AM
One day. In the future. Our tubes will be so fat and our bands so broad that Nintendo will have the only harddrive for their consoles and we'll stream our games and save files right off them. I kinda look forward to teh day when I no longer have to worry about digital or physical space management.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 07, 2008, 02:49:49 AM
I actually agree with all of your points ShyGuy, particularly #1. I definitely don't want games to move away from the physical medium in the future, I think it is a major mistake and it kills the whole collection facet of gaming, which I particularly enjoy.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 07, 2008, 02:59:08 AM
I actually agree with all of your points ShyGuy, particularly #1. I definitely don't want games to move away from the physical medium in the future, I think it is a major mistake and it kills the whole collection facet of gaming, which I particularly enjoy.
Same thing I like about CDs but it hasn't seemed to stop the digital revolution.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 07, 2008, 07:31:40 AM
Hard drives are the path to the dark side. Hard drives lead to porn, and porn leads to suffering.
I sense much hard drive in you.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 07, 2008, 09:13:20 AM
"Wii don't need a hard drive", huh?
I guess you didn't have to free up space this morning just to install the Nintendo Channel.
I currently have 12 VC games stored on an SD card because the Wii's "generous 512MB of flash RAM" became pathetically small about 3 or 4 months ago.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: UncleBob on May 07, 2008, 10:12:42 AM
Why would anyone endorse something that so greatly limits what the system can do?
Hard Drives aren't just about patches and DLC - as we've seen with XBL and WiiWare, there are a *lot* of small time developers who simply could not develop a full-fledged game that would be profitable at retail. Digital distribution is virtually the only way to get these games to the public. The limited space on the Wii makes it a pain to purchase too many titles - which is something that any console maker would have to agree is crazy.
The idea of the Wii is that it's simple - so easy a caveman... Errr... Soccer Mom can do it. Forcing them to go into internal menus and swap files around isn't easy or fun.
Mario Kart and Wii Fit show this off perfectly - you install the special channel so you can quickly access the data of the game without having to swap discs. If I could have done something like this on my DS, my Nintendog probably wouldn't be dead.
Hard Drive = easy. Swapping files around on SD cards = pain in the neck.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 07, 2008, 10:52:48 AM
Hard Drive = easy. Swapping files around on SD cards = pain in the neck.
Amen.
Now, I would be content with copying to an SD card if the Wii could access Channels saved on that SD card. For all intents and purposes the SD card slot is a rather useless feature of the Wii since, many times, it takes longer to copy a Virtual Console "Channel" to the SD card than it does to download it from the Shop Channel!
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 07, 2008, 12:09:34 PM
The title of this thread is wrong. It should be Nintendo don't need to produce a hard drive
I just found this. 500GB for £75. (http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/3337499/Seagate-500GB-FreeAgent-Desktop-3-5-External-USB-2-0-Hard-Drive/Product.html) All Nintendo need to do is produce a generic driver to support them all, and the problem is sorted. No R&D involved, no mass production or marketing. All the pennies they would have spent making one have been saved! All by using a product that already exists.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 07, 2008, 12:31:26 PM
The title of this thread is wrong. It should be Nintendo don't need to produce a hard drive
I just found this. 500GB for £75. (http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/3337499/Seagate-500GB-FreeAgent-Desktop-3-5-External-USB-2-0-Hard-Drive/Product.html) All Nintendo need to do is produce a generic driver to support them all, and the problem is sorted. No R&D involved, no mass production or marketing. All the pennies they would have spent making one have been saved! All by using a product that already exists.
When the Wii was first unveiled, Iwata said that the Wii would support just about any USB Hard Drive. It's time he made good on that claim.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 07, 2008, 12:56:48 PM
It will be necessary for Wii 2 to have a hard drive.
Who cares about the "Wii 2"? It's necessary for the current Wii to have a hard drive!
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 07, 2008, 01:02:37 PM
Wii absolutely need a hard drive. I have a few VC N64 games, and it's killing my storage space.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 07, 2008, 01:06:08 PM
When I was kid back in like 1994 I thought of what an ideal console would have. I figured it should have four controller ports since it was annoying to have to buy an adapter and a hard drive because it was so useful with PC games to save as many custom tracks or levels or "Sim Cities" that I wanted. In retrospect I was designing the Xbox. ;)
It doesn't have to be a hard drive but having some sort of large built-in storage is such a no brainer idea for a console. Having save batteries die sucks. Having to buy memory cards because they don't include them with the damn console sucks. Having a limit on the amount of save slots, and thus not having enough for each sibling or friend to have one, sucks. Built-in storage eliminates those issues.
Now I'll admit that bloatware is a problem but it's a problem no matter what. The sh!tty devs that clog up the hard drive are the same ones that would eat up a whole memory card. No matter how you dice it they're going to abuse it. I think an ideal hard drive implementation allows for some form of portable storage so that you can back up files or take your save to a friend's house. You should also be able to easily remove the hard drive so that you can replace it if it breaks or just buy an extra if you have a lot of games.
No physical copies and devs relying on patches are all valid. Microtransactions are also a valid complaint and that is also a problem with the combination of hard drives and online support.
But you know what? The Wii has functionally the EXACT SAME THING. It's just smaller than what MS and Sony offer. Just because it's technically not a hard drive doesn't mean it's different. All the same issues apply. Except in this case I would say it's worse because of the huge size difference. It reminds me of how for the first couple years the Cube had by far the smallest memory card (and sure enough those crooks charged us the same price as the PS2 memory card despite it being 8 TIMES SMALLER).
Let's say Developer A makes some amazing game for the Xbox 360 and PS3 that requires extensive use of the hard drive. Where's the Wii port? Oh that's right they can't port it to the Wii because its technically-not-a-hard-drive-but-is-still-really-the-same-idea-built-in-storage is vastly smaller. The Wii misses out on a lot of multiplatform games because hardware wise it doesn't compare so a straight port requires a big chunk of extra effort. The built-in storage is part of it.
The Wii is open to bloatware and patches and games with no physical copies exactly like the other consoles are. Except the spaces runs out quicker. Yee haw. Nintendo hardware always seems like it's designed for magical fantasyland developers that do everything efficiently. While that's a nice design in theory it doesn't work at all in the real world. Devs like being lazy so they need flexible options. Rinky dink cartridges or memory cards or built-in storage doesn't fly with them if the competition allows them the option of making inflated bloatware. The result of having everything "smaller" on the Wii has just resulted in PS2 ports.
Hell people can run out of storage on the Wii just by downloading first party VC games. There's no inefficient third party there. You could have only Nintendo products on the Wii and still have to be swapping SD cards. When the designer of the console itself has nailed their dick to the floor with only 512mb of storage then you know it wasn't a good design.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Pale on May 07, 2008, 01:31:53 PM
The title of this thread is wrong. It should be Nintendo don't need to produce a hard drive
I just found this. 500GB for £75. (http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/3337499/Seagate-500GB-FreeAgent-Desktop-3-5-External-USB-2-0-Hard-Drive/Product.html) All Nintendo need to do is produce a generic driver to support them all, and the problem is sorted. No R&D involved, no mass production or marketing. All the pennies they would have spent making one have been saved! All by using a product that already exists.
The problem with this plan is that they need to fix the SD support FIRST. I saw this because I'm sure that if they do enable external hard drives, they would just work like the current SD slot anyway. They NEED to make it so the main wii menu can feed off of things other than its internal memory. This is the first step.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Morari on May 07, 2008, 03:31:13 PM
THIS POST HAS BEEN CENSORED FOR YOUR PROTECTION.
--Bureau of Internet Morality
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: animecyberrat on May 07, 2008, 03:34:59 PM
I agree with Shyguy, Nintendo needs to stay the course and not worry about following MS or Sony, Wii is running circles around those consoles why should Nintendo change their strategy to appease fans of their competition?
Sure things like VC and Wii Channels not being able to run from the SD card can be a problem, that is what Nintendo needs to work on like Pale said, those few games that require a hard drive are all built in HD and use all the muscle the big consoles have anyways, so the hard drive is not a very good excuse for not seeing those games.
Would I like Wii to have a hard drive, play games in HD and run normal DVD's/CD's? HELL YES, but does it affect me at all not being able to do those things? Nope not one bit. Besides any games that will not come to Wii because of it's lack of Hard Drive, is likely available on a PC anyways which offers more flexibility than either of the big consoles anyways.
As far as patches and demo games and stuff like that, yeah it would be nice but by not having the hard drive as an option forces devs to get it right the first time with Wii, some thing Bully proved. With 360 they could throw out a crappy games and patch it up latter on, for the Wii they didn't have that luxory. I haven't played the game myself but it seams to me all the complaining was the 360 version right?
Right now is the sweet spot, if Nintendo offers Hard Drive support by the end of this year, then there is plenty of time for developers to catch on and take advantage of it, if they wait too long than it will be too late in the game and nobody will be supporting it. It is something that maybe could have been done from the start but historically Nintendo has shown that if they don't want it they won't support it and right now their current model shows they want nothing to do with putting a hard drive on Wii so chances are they never will.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 07, 2008, 03:43:09 PM
It is something that maybe could have been done from the start but historically Nintendo has shown that if they don't want it they won't support it and right now their current model shows they want nothing to do with putting a hard drive on Wii so chances are they never will.
There was an interview with Iwata recently where he said it was something Nintendo was thinking about.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 07, 2008, 03:45:36 PM
we need more space ya but not 100 gigs of space. Like 2-3 gigs I'd say.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 07, 2008, 03:47:08 PM
Would've been appropriate to have a poll at the top of the thread asking what % of their Wii Internal Flash Memory has already been consumed.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 07, 2008, 03:56:17 PM
I used to believe the same thing about patches. Then Guitar Hero 3 happened. Third parties will still ship out games with glaring problems even if they can't patch them, and it's a lot more hassle for us to get the fix when they do.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Morari on May 07, 2008, 05:13:28 PM
THIS POST HAS BEEN CENSORED FOR YOUR PROTECTION
--Bureau of Internet Morality
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: animecyberrat on May 07, 2008, 05:40:41 PM
It is something that maybe could have been done from the start but historically Nintendo has shown that if they don't want it they won't support it and right now their current model shows they want nothing to do with putting a hard drive on Wii so chances are they never will.
There was an interview with Iwata recently where he said it was something Nintendo was thinking about.
Like how in 2003 GC went online?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 07, 2008, 06:29:53 PM
"Besides, there's still that perceived notion of computers being 'hard to configure' and **** for the end user, as if they're hunting down drivers for Windows 95 or something. I guess most people just don't like to have options, which is all too apparent when you can't even configure your control scheme in most console games."
Isn't this attitude pretty much why Apple stays in business? Macs are a lot like consoles in how the sacrifice flexibility in return for stability. Add too many non-gaming functions and effectively a console would become a game focused Mac.
I think there's a happy medium between a PC and a overly simplified inflexible console. Nintendo makes high quality products and has good customer service but they assume their userbase are stupid. They're so worried about being user-friendly that they're restrictive. Just look at the controller. The whole remote shaped design is based on the notion that non-gamers are too easily confused by "traditional" controllers. But those controllers provide a lot of flexibility and functionality. Having eight buttons instead of two provides more control scheme options. It isn't like they're just extra doodads thrown on. Making the controller more complicated over time allowed for games to expand in more directions. There's a purpose to the design, even if grandma is too dumb to figure it out.
My Dad doesn't pay at the pump because it's too confusing for him. I on the other hand always pay at the pump. If Nintendo ran the world's gas stations pay at the pump wouldn't exist because a large chunk of the population doesn't understand it.
An ideal console should not be afraid of confusing Joe Blow the moron. It should be easy enough to just plug-and-play for the average user. But it should support many types of displays: TVs, computer monitors, HD, standard resultion, PAL, whatever. As long as the average Joe can plug it into a run of the mill TV with ease, he's not going to get confused by other options. Same with sound options. Having a standard controller is needed but other controller options like arcade joysticks or paddle controllers or wheels or lightguns or motion controlled remotes or mice or keyboards or flightsticks should be available. Being able to attach whatever hard drive you want. Being able to use whatever internet connection you want. Being able to customize the controller on a level outside the game (ie: I decide that B = A). That kind of flexibility is not going to turn a console into a PC.
What needs to remain on consoles that will keep them as consoles: 1. Third party licencing so only officially approved games are available. 2. The guts of the hardware are standard. Same RAM, graphics chip, sound chip, CPU, etc. for every console. Everyone has the same guts so everything runs the same on every machine. 3. Standard controller that comes with the console that all developers must use as their base model. 4. All game saves are done in such a way that all saves can be easily located by the user using a built-in file management program so as to transfer saves to other storage devices easily. 5. You put a game in the console, hit the power button, and the game loads up. You push the reset button and the game resets.
Aside from that you could do whatever you wanted. It is possible to have a console that allows for incredible flexibility while still being simple plug-n-play for the average user. THAT is what a real hardcore gamer console would be. That's also what a true everyone console would be. It's the "and" console that Reggie lies about the Wii being.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 07, 2008, 06:50:33 PM
So you want a PS3?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Adrock on May 07, 2008, 08:24:04 PM
The problem with this plan is that they need to fix the SD support FIRST. I saw this because I'm sure that if they do enable external hard drives, they would just work like the current SD slot anyway. They NEED to make it so the main wii menu can feed off of things other than its internal memory. This is the first step.
Agreed. That's basically the more useful version of what I was getting at.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 07, 2008, 10:56:29 PM
Seriously, I think the problem would be easily solved if Nintendo allowed SD cards to function exactly the same as the internal flash memory, and basically supplement it. As of now, it seems 4gb SD cards are quite common, and I think they go up as high as 32 gb or even more... Would anyone really need anymore space than that on their Wii? If they do, I suppose they can carry on swapping, but 99.9% of people could probably do just fine on 4gb or less.
So why should Nintendo add a hard drive? Hard drives are expensive, and the amount of storage space they would offer just isn't necessary. I say SD cards could solve the problem, but Nintendo needs to remove the restrictions on them and allow VC games and other stuff to run off them directly, as opposed to swapping like you have to do now...
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 07, 2008, 10:58:12 PM
I've never played a 360 game that required any type of install. Sure, some require the HDD for cache, but I don't any of them require any type of "install" - not including DLC or Xbox originals, etc, of course. Now to get back on track. There is already a homebrew team that is working on HDD support (for homebrew only, since you can't run Wii/GCN games off of anything besides the disc, and can't run WiiWare or VC games from anything besides the internal flash memory), so Nintendo really needs to look at this issue, and fix it.
Edit - Hard drives are not expensive. When the Wii came out a 2GB SD card in most stores would cost about $40, you could easily get an 80GB HDD for the same price then.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 07, 2008, 11:15:57 PM
2 GB is about 7 bucks on Newegg. Just saying, not knockin' your knowledge Brandogg.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 08, 2008, 12:50:25 AM
I spend about 3 hours looking thru Newegg at work, each day.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 08, 2008, 12:53:00 AM
2 GB is about 7 bucks on Newegg. Just saying, not knockin' your knowledge Brandogg.
I think you missed that first part.
Anyways I still don't think adding a Hard Drive now is going to make much of a difference. Not unless they do it before this year is up. I haven't had any problems with the 1 GB SD card I have so I am not going to fill that up for a long time and until I do I won't worry about expanding.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 08, 2008, 12:17:20 PM
When the Wii first came out, 2GB Kingston SD cards were $20, at Newegg.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 08, 2008, 01:13:57 PM
To back up Madonna's point, I have a receipt as proof.
Also, I'm pretty sure the 4GB and up ones aren't supported by the Wii.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 08, 2008, 01:25:42 PM
I don't doubt that Pro. But I was just saying because 2 GB is so cheap. I wasn't going after anyone's knowledge.
PB, I don't think anything greater than 2GB works because of the hardware and ultimately Driver change.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 08, 2008, 01:25:57 PM
To back up Madonna's point, I have a receipt as proof.
Also, I'm pretty sure the 4GB and up ones aren't supported by the Wii.
Yup, that's right. Up to 2GB cards are supported as stated on the Nintendo Web Site (http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/wii/en_na/sdCards.jsp#purchase)
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 08, 2008, 01:36:38 PM
Alright so I know the solution. 1 firmware update,
This firmware update will add the newer SD drivers as well as allow things to be run off SD cards. PROBLEM SOLVED.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 08, 2008, 02:03:42 PM
It may be a hardware limitation. If the hardware can't handle 4GB+ cards then it'll stuck like that.
If it's the case, then this is (cue Ian's brilliant line of) Nintendo nailing their dick to the floor.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: animecyberrat on May 08, 2008, 04:16:09 PM
I think the point was a Hard Drive was still cheaper by any case. Now hard drives are even cheaper still and even though SD cards keep going down in price, like it has been said if the cap is 2GB it won't matter.
But the thread is about weather or not Wii *needs* a hard drive and I think that is not the case I think it is more Wii needs to be able to access the flash memory in the SD card as if it was the Wii internal memory.
Nintendo doesn't seam to be willing to do that thought because of their Piracy fears. Which I think is utter BS. I mean if you buy a Disc game you can plug it into ANY system you want, same with the old carts, you SHOULD be able to do the same with VC games you buy, BUT they should bake it so you can play them on any system but can only SAVE THEM to YOUR system. That would be a better solution where everybody wins.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 08, 2008, 04:27:44 PM
I think the point was a Hard Drive was still cheaper by any case. Now hard drives are even cheaper still and even though SD cards keep going down in price, like it has been said if the cap is 2GB it won't matter.
But the thread is about weather or not Wii *needs* a hard drive and I think that is not the case I think it is more Wii needs to be able to access the flash memory in the SD card as if it was the Wii internal memory.
Nintendo doesn't seam to be willing to do that thought because of their Piracy fears. Which I think is utter BS. I mean if you buy a Disc game you can plug it into ANY system you want, same with the old carts, you SHOULD be able to do the same with VC games you buy, BUT they should bake it so you can play them on any system but can only SAVE THEM to YOUR system. That would be a better solution where everybody wins.
Everybody except Nintendo would win, because anyone could copy all their VC games to a bunch of SD cards and give them away to a bunch of people which would cost Nintendo sales.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 08, 2008, 04:37:03 PM
When the Wii first came out, 2GB Kingston SD cards were $20, at Newegg.
Yep, and I paid $19.99 for a 2GB SanDisk SD card at Best Buy in November 2006, solely for use in my Wii.
And I bet that SanDisk card wasn't in the same Best Buy section as the "other" Wii-endorsed SD cards =]
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 08, 2008, 08:39:13 PM
Even if the Wii can only handle 2gb cards, wouldn't that be enough for most people? Heck, the 512mb of internal space is probably enough for 75% of Wii owners out there, and a 2gb SD card would add 4 times as much space as the Wii already has. That would be enough for a LOT of VC games and saves, but even with that there'd still be some hardcore Wii owners who would need more, but if that's the case they can still swap cards about.
The Wii doesn't need as much space as the 360 or PS3 does with their HD content and so forth. The competition might need 200gb of storage space, but would that much space ever really be used by the Wii?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: WindyMan on May 09, 2008, 01:13:13 AM
The Wii doesn't need as much space as the 360 or PS3 does with their HD content and so forth. The competition might need 200gb of storage space, but would that much space ever really be used by the Wii?
The Wii does not need storage space on the order of 20 gigs like the Xbox 360. It does need more than the 512MB (which is more like 300MB after system data and stuff you can't delete) than what it has, though. Even a gig would have been way more than enough for a lot of people. You wouldn't have had so many complaints about the storage issue if so many people are finding themselves running out of space every time a big game comes around to download.
I'll bet you anything that Wii models a year or so from now will ship with more than 512MB of storage space.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 09, 2008, 01:29:05 AM
The Wii doesn't need as much space as the 360 or PS3 does with their HD content and so forth. The competition might need 200gb of storage space, but would that much space ever really be used by the Wii?
The Wii does not need storage space on the order of 20 gigs like the Xbox 360. It does need more than the 512MB (which is more like 300MB after system data and stuff you can't delete) than what it has, though. Even a gig would have been way more than enough for a lot of people. You wouldn't have had so many complaints about the storage issue if so many people are finding themselves running out of space every time a big game comes around to download.
I'll bet you anything that Wii models a year or so from now will ship with more than 512MB of storage space.
That won't help people who already have one with 512 MB that's completely filled.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Plugabugz on May 09, 2008, 03:10:31 AM
If they were to patch things up so that the Wii Menu (and subsequent games) can save/load from the memory card or hard drive, would it be possible to patch up existing games to do this?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: ShyGuy on May 09, 2008, 03:35:13 AM
I imagine so, they would just need to map it so that the internal flash and the SD card appears as one drive (think RAID configuration) Whether this can be down without slowing things down is another story.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: vherub on May 09, 2008, 11:35:38 AM
If you don't buy vc titles, or wiiware titles, the internal memory is enough. But why would Nintendo have a barrier to entry to enjoy these games or limit future titles? Let's say there is a push to release sega cd or sega saturn titles on the vc or wiiware- that would be fantastic, but severely difficult due to current memory issues. Also, Nintendo is punishing those gamers who buy up multiple vc titles the most. And you would have to think that if people are less likely to buy wiiware titles because of storage issues, developers are less likely to support the service. Again, these are scenarios that hurt gamers. Let a usb harddrive be easily recognizable by the wii menu and the benefits drastically outweigh any worries over the negs.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Ghisy on May 10, 2008, 06:48:28 AM
I don't intend to buy any VC game because I already own all the older games I love. I might be interested in WiiWare titles though but Nintendo should really allow saving those up on an USB HDD or on SD cards. Otherwise, I don't think I'll ever buy a WiiWare title.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Spinnzilla on May 11, 2008, 10:34:37 PM
Wouldn't it be possible for Nintendo to create memory cards with gigs of space on them?
I'm sure this could possilbely settle the harddrive issue and large memory cards seem just way more "nintendo-y" (for a lack of a better wording).
large memory cards could work because wii DLC would probably be smaller than PS3 or 360's right?(I have no idea how much larger (if that) 360/PS3 DLC is)
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 11, 2008, 10:45:07 PM
Wouldn't it be possible for Nintendo to create memory cards with gigs of space on them?
I'm sure this could possilbely settle the harddrive issue and large memory cards seem just way more "nintendo-y" (for a lack of a better wording).
large memory cards could work because wii DLC would probably be smaller than PS3 or 360's right?(I have no idea how much larger (if that) 360/PS3 DLC is)
Memory cards like that already exist, and the Wii already has a slot for them, Nintendo just won't allow them to be used in that way.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Spinnzilla on May 11, 2008, 10:49:08 PM
Wouldn't it be possible for Nintendo to create memory cards with gigs of space on them?
I'm sure this could possilbely settle the harddrive issue and large memory cards seem just way more "nintendo-y" (for a lack of a better wording).
large memory cards could work because wii DLC would probably be smaller than PS3 or 360's right?(I have no idea how much larger (if that) 360/PS3 DLC is)
Memory cards like that already exist, and the Wii already has a slot for them, Nintendo just won't allow them to be used in that way.
I'm well aware of SD cards, but I'm speaking on cards that are specifically made for the wii.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 11, 2008, 11:02:47 PM
Wouldn't it be possible for Nintendo to create memory cards with gigs of space on them?
I'm sure this could possilbely settle the harddrive issue and large memory cards seem just way more "nintendo-y" (for a lack of a better wording).
large memory cards could work because wii DLC would probably be smaller than PS3 or 360's right?(I have no idea how much larger (if that) 360/PS3 DLC is)
Memory cards like that already exist, and the Wii already has a slot for them, Nintendo just won't allow them to be used in that way.
I'm well aware of SD cards, but I'm speaking on cards that are specifically made for the wii.
If they were going to do that they'd have to get people to buy the memory card reader in addition to the cards. If they don't want to enable SD card use for these things then the solution would have to be a hard drive (or some other kind of standalone mass storage device).
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 11, 2008, 11:17:25 PM
Wouldn't it be possible for Nintendo to create memory cards with gigs of space on them?
I'm sure this could possilbely settle the harddrive issue and large memory cards seem just way more "nintendo-y" (for a lack of a better wording).
large memory cards could work because wii DLC would probably be smaller than PS3 or 360's right?(I have no idea how much larger (if that) 360/PS3 DLC is)
Memory cards like that already exist, and the Wii already has a slot for them, Nintendo just won't allow them to be used in that way.
I'm well aware of SD cards, but I'm speaking on cards that are specifically made for the wii.
How would that be possible? The Wii has a slot for SD cards and it can also use Gamecube memory cards. There are no card slots for anything else...
As insanolord said, they'd have to distribute a new memory card reading peripheral in order to do that, and it's just a lot more of a hassle for not much of a payoff. What they should do instead is just allow SD cards to be able to expand the total memory available for the Wii without any restrictions. That's all they have to do. They don't need to create a new type of card to do this.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2008, 12:50:13 AM
Nintendo hates progress.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 12, 2008, 09:14:09 AM
When the Wii first came out, 2GB Kingston SD cards were $20, at Newegg.
Yep, and I paid $19.99 for a 2GB SanDisk SD card at Best Buy in November 2006, solely for use in my Wii.
And I bet that SanDisk card wasn't in the same Best Buy section as the "other" Wii-endorsed SD cards =]
You are correct. It was with the digital cameras. No way in hell I'd pay $50 for a "Wii White" SD card. LOL
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Rhoq on May 22, 2008, 12:25:53 PM
Well guys, I think with today's revelation that Guitar Hero: World Tour (GH4) for the Wii will include DLC this time around, I have a feeling that Neversoft is privy to an a yet-to-be announced expanded storage device. Official announcement at E3?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 22, 2008, 01:22:56 PM
nintendo will release a hard drive (as big as the wii) that comes with KID/MAN ICARUS Wii pre-installed!
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: animecyberrat on May 22, 2008, 04:18:38 PM
Well even if they allow USB Hard Drives, those still cost money.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 22, 2008, 04:27:18 PM
so does Doritos
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: UncleBob on May 22, 2008, 04:32:45 PM
For those nixing the idea of a Nintendo-only memory card for the Wii because of the need for a card reader..... ....why not just use the GameCube memory card ports?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2008, 05:06:46 PM
I need those ports for my GameCube memory cards, the ones for the games I almost never play anymore. Also, didn't you say that disc thing said there was a limit to how big GC memory cards could be?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 22, 2008, 06:19:03 PM
For those nixing the idea of a Nintendo-only memory card for the Wii because of the need for a card reader..... ....why not just use the GameCube memory card ports?
I don't think that would work. GC memory cards are probably slow to read/write and don't offer anywhere near the level of space that a hard drive would offer. They might as well just use the SD card slot without any restrictions to it.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 22, 2008, 06:22:27 PM
The SD card slot is intolerably slow. It takes like 5 seconds to delete a 1-block save file after clicking "yes".
Wii storage is doomed.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2008, 07:13:36 PM
The SD card slot is intolerably slow. It takes like 5 seconds to delete a 1-block save file after clicking "yes".
Wii storage is doomed.
As I've said before, possibly in this very thread, when you load an mp3 to listen to in Excite Truck you pick one from the list and it starts playing almost immediately, I don't think the problem with the speed of the SD card reader is the hardware itself.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 22, 2008, 08:20:37 PM
Unless the SD card reader hardware is terrible, it shouldn't be the reader itself. Readers are incredibly small and cheap now, I would suspect the wii's is no different.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: UncleBob on May 22, 2008, 09:59:09 PM
I need those ports for my GameCube memory cards, the ones for the games I almost never play anymore. Also, didn't you say that disc thing said there was a limit to how big GC memory cards could be?
The limit was to the size of GameCube Memory Cards that the GameCube could read... there's no saying what the limits to the Wii are...
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: animecyberrat on May 22, 2008, 10:05:18 PM
isn't it based on the same technology though? I know you can manage the GC memory cards from the Wii menu but can the Wii access the data on them or do they work the same as the SD card, cuz that goes back to the same dilemma we have been in from day one.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: DAaaMan64 on May 22, 2008, 10:17:53 PM
They are both flash based yes. Both capable of being very fast. Different hardware is the only catch there.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 22, 2008, 10:34:59 PM
The SD card slot is intolerably slow. It takes like 5 seconds to delete a 1-block save file after clicking "yes".
Wii storage is doomed.
As I've said before, possibly in this very thread, when you load an mp3 to listen to in Excite Truck you pick one from the list and it starts playing almost immediately, I don't think the problem with the speed of the SD card reader is the hardware itself.
That's just reading the mp3, though. The read and write speed are different things, and if the write speed is horrendously slow that could pose a problem for games that need to deal with lots of data in a rapid fashion.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 22, 2008, 11:40:51 PM
The read speed is all you need, the writing is all done to the save file which would still be on the internal memory.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 12, 2008, 06:53:10 PM
This is a nice trick to make the wii think your 4 gig sd card is a 2 gig card (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199730)
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: bustin98 on October 12, 2008, 07:41:50 PM
That traitor Strell is in that thread. BURN IT! But copy the good info from it first...
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 12, 2008, 07:46:22 PM
OMG he is. I just looked at the first page.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 12, 2008, 07:55:12 PM
This is a nice trick to make the wii think your 4 gig sd card is a 2 gig card (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199730)
Not true. His first 2GB card was just a slow card.
That only matters in the context of the speed increases he claimed, you can still trick the Wii into using an SD card with twice the capacity as is usually allowed. Of course I don't think even I have enough VC/WiiWare games that I'd need more than 2 gigs, even with my homebrew stuff, at least at this point.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 13, 2008, 12:52:02 AM
That's actually a pretty cool trick, but it's just as effective to buy 2 2GB SD cards, and cheaper too. I hope Nintendo updates the ISO to allow SDHC, especially since an 8GB SDHC card is $25 at Office Depot (might be Staples).
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 13, 2008, 01:46:05 AM
Just as effective, but not nearly as convenient.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on October 13, 2008, 06:40:32 AM
25 for a 8GB card? I bought my 8GB SD card for 17.99 at amazon for my digital camcorder that's SDHD compatible.
Insano -
That trick isn't really convenient as well since you have to juggle around files and do more things instead of just inserting the SD card and enjoying. 2GB is a lot for the Wii, I used up 500 - 600 MB on my SD card with about more than 60 VC and Wiiware combined and I still have a little over 10,000 blocks open on my SD.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Pale on October 13, 2008, 10:06:03 AM
It's more convenient AFTER you've filled up a 4 gig card... but yeah, the process involves the computer a lot.
I wonder what would happen if you filled the straggling 2 gigs up with photos... would they be visible in the photo channel?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 13, 2008, 03:12:46 PM
It's also more convenient to have two 2GB SD cards when one of them croaks (lose half your treasures), than to have that 4GB card and have that one croak (lose all your treasures) in the context of backed up save games.
But I backup my saves on PC once in a while anyway. hawt cutscenes <3
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Knoxxville on October 15, 2008, 07:29:27 PM
Hey guys, long time no see! I am *the* Knoxximus who wrote the FAQ. I hope you guys find it somewhat useful!
And yeah, my 2GB card sucked HARD...the important thing is that you can eventually realize the full potential of a 4GB SD.
And yes, if you filled it with photos, you could view them in the Photo Channel. If you filled it with music, you could use those in games that support custom soundtracks.
And as long as you make a quick backup of your card whenever you adjust something, you should be fine.
I also updated the thread with a program where you can custom make a blank file whatever size you need to cut down the time it takes to maximize your card! ^_^
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 15, 2008, 07:50:07 PM
I think I remember you from some past posts that I read.I am new to the forums.I joined back in January.As you can tell from my title I am the news dude.I bring news to the site.I started doing this because back when I joined it took a while for the front page to update.Recently we got more staff members.So I have been doing less.
Are you going to stick around here?Ask if Strell is going to come back.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Morari on October 15, 2008, 07:53:58 PM
That's actually a pretty cool trick, but it's just as effective to buy 2 2GB SD cards, and cheaper too. I hope Nintendo updates the ISO to allow SDHC, especially since an 8GB SDHC card is $25 at Office Depot (might be Staples).
Staples has their 8GB SanDisk SD and Micro SD cards on sale for $24 this week. They also have the 8GB SanDis Micro Cruzers for the same price--I couldn't resist picking one of those up, as my last UFD was a lame 1GB PNY Attache that quickly lost the cap.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Knoxxville on October 15, 2008, 07:55:37 PM
I think I remember you from some past posts that I read.I am new to the forums.I joined back in January.As you can tell from my title I am the news dude.I bring news to the site.I started doing this because back when I joined it took a while for the front page to update.Recently we got more staff members.So I have been doing less.
Are you going to stick around here?Ask if Strell is going to come back.
I hope to be around more often...I was here all the time when it was Planet Gamecube. Is IanSane still around? That was the DUDE! If you would like, you could make a news post about the 4GB trick. I've already been dugg, and trust me, it is legit and works like a charm!
That's actually a pretty cool trick, but it's just as effective to buy 2 2GB SD cards, and cheaper too. I hope Nintendo updates the ISO to allow SDHC, especially since an 8GB SDHC card is $25 at Office Depot (might be Staples).
Staples has their 8GB SanDisk SD and Micro SD cards on sale for $24 this week. They also have the 8GB SanDis Micro Cruzers for the same price--I couldn't resist picking one of those up, as my last UFD was a lame 1GB PNY Attache that quickly lost the cap.
That would be a SDHC card, which is incompatible with the Wii.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Morari on October 15, 2008, 08:02:25 PM
I'm aware of that. The quote from Brandogg specified as much anyway. ;)
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 15, 2008, 08:15:15 PM
Yes Ian is still here. Was he as grumpy as he is now?
Since you posted it here I don't see a reason to post it again.I will let the staff know though.I think I will let Kairon know.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 15, 2008, 08:27:46 PM
OK I submited the news. I told the staff to give you full credit.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Knoxxville on October 15, 2008, 08:48:32 PM
Hey guys, long time no see! I am *the* Knoxximus who wrote the FAQ. I hope you guys find it somewhat useful!
And yeah, my 2GB card sucked HARD...the important thing is that you can eventually realize the full potential of a 4GB SD.
And yes, if you filled it with photos, you could view them in the Photo Channel. If you filled it with music, you could use those in games that support custom soundtracks.
And as long as you make a quick backup of your card whenever you adjust something, you should be fine.
I also updated the thread with a program where you can custom make a blank file whatever size you need to cut down the time it takes to maximize your card! ^_^
Hey look, it's Mr. GameCube 1.5.
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: Knoxxville on October 16, 2008, 01:50:03 AM
Hey guys, long time no see! I am *the* Knoxximus who wrote the FAQ. I hope you guys find it somewhat useful!
And yeah, my 2GB card sucked HARD...the important thing is that you can eventually realize the full potential of a 4GB SD.
And yes, if you filled it with photos, you could view them in the Photo Channel. If you filled it with music, you could use those in games that support custom soundtracks.
And as long as you make a quick backup of your card whenever you adjust something, you should be fine.
I also updated the thread with a program where you can custom make a blank file whatever size you need to cut down the time it takes to maximize your card! ^_^
Hey look, it's Mr. GameCube 1.5.
That it is....that it is. And how are you, Mr. IceCold? I see some of the old timers are still around.
I just bought back into Nintendo stock too. Remember when I bought it for like $22 a share summer of '06? I sold it late last year for almost $70. 8)
Not only that, Mr. Gamecube 1.5 has something better this year....the Wii 4GB SD trick. Try it....you'll LOVE it. :D
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: NWR_Lindy on October 16, 2008, 01:58:57 AM
Um excuse my naivety but who is the Zentraedi Warlord.
Khyron is a character from the anime series Robotech (actually, Super Dimension Fortress Macross) who was a military commander on the Zentraedi (alien) side.
Khyron, Kairon...get it?
Title: Re: Wii don't need a hard drive.
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 16, 2008, 02:01:52 AM
I see.
So Silks I submited this trick to the staff.Are you going to post it?
