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Community Forums => General Chat => Movies & TV => Topic started by: Stratos on May 04, 2016, 06:38:14 PM

Title: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Strange's Multiple Cameo Madness)
Post by: Stratos on May 04, 2016, 06:38:14 PM
This is the thread for talking without spoiler tags about Marvel Films.


The rules:
Since regional releases can be different follow the subject line for what can be talked about that is new.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 04, 2016, 08:27:12 PM
Poor Rhody... :-[
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 05, 2016, 11:08:36 PM
Spider-Man was pretty shamelessly inserted. I don't understand why they felt the need to shove so much exposition for the character into the film, and it felt a little ham-handed.

Black Panther should have been the only character introduced in the movie, because his story was extremely well-integrated, unlike Peter's. Don't get me wrong, it was awesome to see Spidey and he did some great stuff, but it was superfluous.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 05, 2016, 11:14:27 PM


Poor Rhody... :-[

What? He's still alive.

Anyway, the movie was awesome. Going to see it again this weekend. Definitely the best version of Spider-Man - they introduce him perfectly, no need for an origin story (though I imagine Homecoming will have one). I really don't think he was shamelessly inserted, and as far as we know, this was his first big fight, so his usage had to be limited. I think there was just enough Spider-Man in the movie. I was kind of surprised with the ending, well, the reveal that Zemo killed the other Winter Soldiers in order to get The Avengers to destroy each other. Also kind of surprised to see that in the movie, Bucky (well, Winter Soldier) killed Tony's parents. In the comics they never reveal who caused the car accident that killed them, so I guess this is acceptable (and makes sense). They didn't pull a Sandman (Spider-Man 3), since they've been building up to this reveal since Captain America Winter Soldier came out. Also, Giant Man! Damn that whole scene was awesome. I wonder if they'll bring him back again - maybe to fight Hulk or something.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 06, 2016, 02:41:42 AM
First, I would love to see The Hulk PUMMEL Giant Man. Literally man-handle him how Ant-Man did Widow. That would be hilarious.

As far as the Bucky killing Howard Stark, that was revealed in an earlier movie... was it Winter Soldier? unless you meant you were surprised to see that they actually showed the murder scene as it happened. But yeah, we, just like Steve, already knew Bucky was responsible for the death of Howard Stark.

That very quick peek at Wakanda had me hyped.
Cap: "You know if they found out we were here... they'd come for us"
Panther: "Let them try"
::pans out across a fog covered landscape and rest on a giant Panther statue::

Panther was dope as ****. in suit, out of suit. don't fucking matter.
and how much you wanna bet Panther gets Cap a brand new shield hand crafted out of that vibranium mine they are sitting on?
And does this also mean that the "Secret Avengers' will be in the Panther "solo" movie?
What does this mean for the Ant-Man and The Wasp movie?

Can I fast-forward time!!!? why can't these movies be released on a more Netflix TV like schedule?
you know... all at once so I can binge watch at my leisure.

and now we all know why Stark is in the homecoming movie. From Pepper Potts To(aunt)mei.
Keeping Peter geared up and out on the streets so (aunt)mei gets Loney, and then Tony can help her keep that couch warm.... as they burn it in the fireplace of the new penthouse suite he buys for her as a "thanks for the sex" gift, like it was a box of chocolates or a bouquet of flowers. ;) But Spidey/Parker was fun, and everyone will most likely enjoy his "solo" if he carries on like he did in this movie.

Scarlet is one powerful witch. with more practice... I can see not ever being able to be fucked with.
I'm sure Vision will be her match, but he has to not have a soft spot for her first... and figure out how to harness the actual power of the Mind Stone in his forehead.

I'm so relieved that no one actually died.... except for Crossbones.... and King T'Chaka and all those people in the office building and the U.N. Building... but you know what I mean. No Avengers/Heroes kicked the bucket. Poor Rhodes though... although I'm sure Tony will just make him a permanent suit that will allow him to walk, and problem solved.

I really think that Widow could have her own movie... maybe a lower-key Netflix Original 2hr spy action flick. Her action was pretty bad-ass in this movie as well.

And Rogers getting that Agent Carter play however he could. Never got to bang out the original... so bang out the most recent model instead. I salute you Steve Rogers.


I do have some criticisms for the movie as well, nothing major, but I'll save those for another day.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 06, 2016, 01:08:38 PM
I just felt the movie was one of the most mature perspectives of superheroes we've seen in cinema- actual superheroes, not the madmen of Gotgan seen in Nolan's Bat-flicks. These were men and women of great power dealing with matters that would apply to superheroes in a real-world setting. This is not heroes realistically portrayed, this is super heroics adapted to reality.

Anyway, my previous comments on Spidey are really my greatest complaint with the movie, although I also think the airport fight was a BIT too long for its own good. The beginning of the movie truly felt like a Cap film, but it lost itself somewhere in the middle, before neatly tying itself up. I really enjoyed the film and I think, in retrospect, the Cap trilogy will be remembered as the best films of Phases 1-3, and the most grounded films in the MCU.

But it just couldn't beat The Winter Soldier.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 07, 2016, 02:26:23 AM

I really think that Widow could have her own movie... maybe a lower-key Netflix Original 2hr spy action flick. Her action was pretty bad-ass in this movie as well.


Well it looks like you'll have your wish.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/684411-kevin-feige-says-marvel-studios-is-committing-to-a-black-widow-solo-movie#/slide/1
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 07, 2016, 02:46:31 AM

I really think that Widow could have her own movie... maybe a lower-key Netflix Original 2hr spy action flick. Her action was pretty bad-ass in this movie as well.


Well it looks like you'll have your wish.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/684411-kevin-feige-says-marvel-studios-is-committing-to-a-black-widow-solo-movie#/slide/1

and I hope she teams up with Bucky and Hawkeye, on an off the books mission for Fury.
And just for good measure, a little help from Cap in his Stealth Suit with a "small" assist from Ant-Man in his new Black Ant suit.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: nickmitch on May 07, 2016, 08:09:25 PM
I LOVED Spider-Man.  All of his dialogue was hilarious.  I couldn't stop laughing.  He even made other characters funnier.  "Is this your first fight? Usually there isn't this much talking."

I also liked the budding romance between Scarlet Witch and Vision.  Hopefully that builds to something.

One thing that really stood out: Cap's objective became to stop the other Winter Soldiers to wreck havoc.  Then Tony came in to offer the assist.  I couldn't help but think that's how BvS played out.  The two heroes threw hands then teamed up to fight a greater foe.  But the movie did a classic bait-and-switch where you see the soldiers dead, and Zemo's plan was to make them fight again.  It was as if the film said, "NOPE! The theme of this is heroes fighting eachother, that's what you're gonna get!"  Whereas with BvS, well, you know.

However, that part of the movie made the scene where Zemo was trying to get that Hydra guy to talk pointless.  It was only there to kind of trick the audience into thinking you know what his plan is (and it worked on me).  But it didn't seem like he needed to get the location of the Winter Soldiers from that guy since he seemed to have this elaborate plan to get it out of Bucky.

Also, kind of ironic how Thunderbolt Ross was like, "Do you know where Thor and Hulk are? If I lost two nukes, blah, blah, blah. . .", since he was the one in charge of bringing the Hulk in, in the first place and totally failed at that.

Overall, fantastic movie. Definitely a fave.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 08, 2016, 01:17:56 AM
SW and vision romance, oh it builds to something alright...
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2016, 05:25:45 AM
I also liked the budding romance between Scarlet Witch and Vision.  Hopefully that builds to something.
SW and vision romance, oh it builds to something alright...

Are we allowed to post a comic pic?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stratos on May 08, 2016, 09:25:30 AM
Why not? MCU is different from the comics so I would presume that is fair game.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 08, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
It's a shame House of M will never happen in the MCU, because it's one of my favorite reinterpretations of the universe.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2016, 11:35:21 AM
Yeah.  Fox could retool House of M to only include the X-Men though.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 08, 2016, 02:49:20 PM
Yeah. Fox could retool House of M to only include the X-Men though.
This is true, but the coolest interpretations of characters were those found in the MCU. Iron Man and the Hulk, for example. However, the Fearsome Four was an awesome retelling of the Fantastic Four universe, if Fox could get on top of that.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2016, 03:03:56 PM
you mean if Fox could let go of that.

No one wants another Fantastic Four anything from Fox at this point. They really should put it on the table and see what Disney/Marvel is willing to offer for it.

I bet not only would Disney give them full TV rights, but could probably negotiate production of X-Men related toys again. It would be a way to pay Fox w/o actually paying them, since they would split the movie related merchandise money 50/50, of which there currently isn't any since Marvel refuses to produce any. Extra "free" revenue might loosen that grip on Marvel's first family.

Then Fox can get back to expanding the X-Verse w/ Deadpool, X-Force, New Mutunts, X-Men, The Savage Lands, Mojo's World, The Brotherhood, Multiple Man and Stong Guy, Xavier's School for the Gifted, The Phoenix Force and whatever else they can dream up.
They don't need the distraction of F4 and trying to make that fit in w/ everything else.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stratos on May 08, 2016, 11:25:02 PM
Just like Amazing Spiderman will continue to boycott F4 films until the rights revert to Marvel. And really, I jut want Dr Doom and Thing. Watching the Avengers Assemble cartoon got me into Doom as a competent and intriguing villain and Thing would be fun to see team up with Hulk in a buddy film, though Thor+Hulk could be a fun pair as well (hoping to see some great fighting between them in Ragnarock).


I just adored the new guys in Civil War. Black Panther is even more exciting to me now and Spiderman really nails the character. With how the film ended I can totally see Cap appear with Panther and Stark with Spidey. This would be a great way to "phase them out" over time, only bringing them back fr the Avenger flicks. I really want to see Evans get a shot at directing as he could then still appear as a side character. Maybe give him some Agents of Shield arcs to break him in.


I really only had one disappointment in Civil War. No one died. On one hand I was happy no one did, but it feels a little hollow when there were rumored to be upwards of three deaths. Though it was still a powerful film with very high stakes. My wife freaked when Rhodey was falling and I think she was about to cry when she thought he was dead. And that final scene with Iron Man and Cap "He's my friend...", "So was I" That really got me.


In the end, I like it better than Winter Soldier, and it feels like people are trying to bring the film down because of how high a pedestal people placed WS.


It's funny, MCU got me into these characters as I was more of a Star Wars kid, but I liked Civil War better than Force Awakens. I'm way more excited for future MCU flicks over what Star Wars has coming out.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 08, 2016, 11:39:24 PM
But there were 3 named deaths in Civil War

1) Rumlow/Crossbones
2) Agent Peggy Carter
3) T'Chaka - King of Wakanda, father of T'Challa aka The Black Panther

and one un-named offscreen but implied death:
Cap's Virginity as he finally nailed an Agent Carter

but there is a list of 40 rumors or something like that about CW that never came true. So lots of the **** we were hearing was a load of BS.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2016, 11:54:37 PM
He meant "no one important died".
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 09, 2016, 12:05:04 AM
Why are we spoiler-tagging things in the spoiler thread? Anyway, Crossbones was relatively important. I think everyone is expecting Hawkeye to take one for the team  though.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 09, 2016, 12:58:57 AM
I spoiler tagged my punchline, forcing you to read the setup before the spoilered text.

But it was the one death we've all been wanting to see since WS, so I'm glad it finally happened.
Millions of little soldiers finally got to salute the Cap after he suited up for battle, and then pulled out after winning a very personal war.

I wonder who will have kids first. Cap and 13, or Wanda and Vision
Possibly Stark and Aunt Mei... or Hulk and Widow!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stratos on May 09, 2016, 01:31:21 AM
I wonder who will have kids first. Cap and 13, or Wanda and Vision
Possibly Stark and Aunt Mei... or Hulk and Widow!?


Gamorra and Star Lord.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 09, 2016, 02:43:11 AM
I wonder who will have kids first. Cap and 13, or Wanda and Vision
Possibly Stark and Aunt Mei... or Hulk and Widow!?


Gamorra and Star Lord.

I'm actually thinking it will be Jessica & Luke, but I'm crossing my fingers for Mack & Yo-yo.
I would guess FitzSimmons, but we all know that will end tragically.


edit: Not sure how I could forget SkyeWard
although at this point, that would probably turn out either really gross, or not at all what you expected.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 09, 2016, 06:23:25 PM
Stratos:  I originally thought that too about nobody dying.  But OK...what if someone dies?  How does anybody come back to trust the other if somebody died in the battles?  I thought War Machine was going to die, but I realized if he did...Tony would go to a dark, dark place.  He already went there with his mother's death.  But I think he was still holding back.  If someone in his team died...he would not have pulled any punches. 

Plus there is the question of who dies?  There are only 3 choices.  War Machine (Already explained what happens if you kill him.)  Hawkeye, which would be a horrible death.  He is a fan favorite, and has a family...though he is probably the most expendable.  Then that leaves Winter Soldier, which would do the same to Captain America as War Machine does to Tony Stark.  So, yeah they were smart not include a death. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 09, 2016, 10:08:27 PM
Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 09, 2016, 10:17:59 PM
Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?
It was rumored, and debunked.

If War Machine had died, Tony would have no one to blame but himself. The Vision is his creation, and Rhodey chose to pursue Steve and Bucky. It would have been a freak accident. Hell, it was. But brushing away Rhodes' current fate is a little lenient, as well- sure, Stark can just "build him some new legs", but he has had something taken from him that can never be replaced, and will have to live out the remainder of his life with that in mind. All for trying to **** with Captain America.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 09, 2016, 10:40:00 PM
Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?
It was rumored, and debunked.

If War Machine had died, Tony would have no one to blame but himself. The Vision is his creation, and Rhodey chose to pursue Steve and Bucky. It would have been a freak accident. Hell, it was. But brushing away Rhodes' current fate is a little lenient, as well- sure, Stark can just "build him some new legs", but he has had something taken from him that can never be replaced, and will have to live out the remainder of his life with that in mind. All for trying to **** with Captain America.

I take it you sided with Team Cap.  I sided with Team Stark.  I think Captain America was the irrational one.  Yes, it was a freak accident, and Rhodey was in pursuit.  In fact, I think the scene with Tony working with the robotic legs was to help the audience now how they should feel about that "casuality" of war.  It was a great scene. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 09, 2016, 10:55:10 PM
Not to get too political - but there should have been some middle ground between turning the Avengers over to the UN and being a wholly independent organization.

I'm amused that Tony was so on-board with the accords when it was 100% because of the events of Avengers 2.  And what happened in AoU wouldn't have really been averted by these accords.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 09, 2016, 11:15:53 PM
Didn't Marvel already negotiate the Fantastic Four rights back from Fox?

Only speculated, nothing to even base a credible rumor on from what I've seen. But I mention it in the OP & last post of the MCU thread
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 09, 2016, 11:42:28 PM
I take it you sided with Team Cap.  I sided with Team Stark.  I think Captain America was the irrational one.  Yes, it was a freak accident, and Rhodey was in pursuit.  In fact, I think the scene with Tony working with the robotic legs was to help the audience now how they should feel about that "casuality" of war.  It was a great scene. 
With the title being "Captain America: Civil War", I went with the side that was A) right, B) had the cooler team, and C) didn't endanger the youth of the superhero community by throwing him into a massive battle with some of the most dangerous and skilled individuals in known existence.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2016, 01:22:01 AM
1) Both Steve and Tony were wrong, and right.
2)  Steve is wrong that they should not have checks and balances.
3)  Tony is more right than wrong, but his methods were questionable.
4) Steve's motives were right and pure, but his attitude was wrong and dangerous.
5) Tony's team was pretty badass.  Spiderman and Black Panther and Vision...they are all A listers.
6) Steve could have TRIED to reach out to Tony before the big fight.  But no, he just says he won't listen.  How about making a compromise.  I will turn myself in, but please lets help look into this bigger issue. 
7) Tony never believed the airport battle was going to happen...and his team was pulling their punches...both teams were. 

No, both teams were wrong, but I sided with Tony Stark more.  The world doesn't need a team of super heroes going about the world doing whatever they want.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 10, 2016, 01:49:06 AM
But Cap smashed Tony's Arc Reactor in the end, so I sided with the team that WON.

As we all know in these affairs, to the victor goes the spoils.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2016, 03:14:54 AM
5) Tony's team was pretty badass.  Spiderman and Black Panther and Vision...they are all A listers.

One correction... Black Panther was never on Tony's team. He was always on his own. His one singular goal was to get to Bucky, he had no interest in anything else at the time of the big fight. In fact he was the only one out with the intention of actually hurting anyone.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: elvshaunt2 on May 10, 2016, 06:49:56 AM
I just hope he would have his own movie next year.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 10, 2016, 11:33:15 AM
One correction... Black Panther was never on Tony's team. He was always on his own.

Eh...  Black Widow made a comment with regards to recruiting him in the conversation she and Tony had when Tony mentioned recruiting Spider-Man.  I mean, they were pretty loosely-defined teams anyway...

C) didn't endanger the youth of the superhero community by throwing him into a massive battle with some of the most dangerous and skilled individuals in known existence.

Eh... Scarlet Witch is young and inexperienced.  Sure, she's potentially one of the most powerful mutants Inhumans? around, but she's still young, barely knows how to control her powers and is still controlled by her base emotions.

Also - AntMan.  Not "young", but totally naive and, unless there were some more stories untold between AntMan and Civil War, the dude never should have been put up against Tony's team.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: DreamyWarrior00 on May 10, 2016, 04:06:29 PM
Watched the film never read the comics. They made reference to Hulk and Thor in the film. I get why Thor might not get involved due to the fact he is a being from another world and all but where is Hulk? Can he just no take a side because when he turns into the big guy the sides get blurry ad he just smashes?

Also loved stan lee's cameo "Tony Stank"  ;D
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 10, 2016, 05:33:22 PM
Thor is off in Asgard, so he's probably completely unaware of any of this conflict, and Hulk took off to be alone somewhere, so he is probably equally unaware of most of what's going on as well.

He could be in Tahiti sipping mojitos at a beach side bar watching this play out from the parts that were covered on live tv news for all we know.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stratos on May 10, 2016, 05:57:38 PM
He could be in Tahiti sipping mojitos at a bead side car watching this play out from the parts that were covered on live tv news for all we know.


Right next to Nick Fury, right? ;)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Plugabugz on May 10, 2016, 06:00:13 PM
It seems the TV/Netflix series have split completely off from the movies. The events of SHIELD should have fed back up into the movies, not the other way around.

Especially with Hive who can run around potentially controlling/killing all of them (not sure about Vision though?)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 10, 2016, 11:31:59 PM
I can forgive it.  The events in SHIELD are pretty low profile/under the radar and the events in the movie probably occured over a few days.  HIVE's resources are probably pretty limited, so he's probably playing the long game with plans to go after the megas once he has an established army.

More concerning, why hasn't Coulson called up Cap or Tony for help against HIVE?  I mean, he's a pretty world-ending threat level.  Seems like the kind of thing the Avengers were assembled for.

As for Hulk...  I'm sure Natasha and/or Cap knows right where he is.  I'm sure, as Natasha alluded to - neither one wants him in a fight.  Everyone was still friends, in spite of the job they had to do.  Plug Hulk into the battle and a crippled War Machine is likely to be the least worst outcome.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 11, 2016, 12:05:32 AM
Best argument for registration, would you let superheroes' run-around without any laws in real life?
No you wouldn't so why do these people support team cap?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stratos on May 11, 2016, 12:33:11 AM
But what laws are appropriate? And who would the governing body be? I can think of a number of people who would not want to see the UN control them exclusively. And what sort of enforcement and punishments are in place? Even if registration is "right" are the Sokovia Accords the best way to deal with the issue?


Laws pushed through in haste with the best of intentions tend to have unseen negative consequences down the road. Look at the DMCA and the ACA in America, these laws meant well, but there are some issues with them because of how they were passed through without enough thought into what the long term effects would be.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 11, 2016, 05:21:03 AM
Best argument for registration, would you let superheroes' run-around without any laws in real life?
No you wouldn't so why do these people support team cap?

We do have to tread carefully as not to break the "No politics" rule, but Stratos is right.  I agree that I wouldn't want super-powered individuals running around unchecked and without laws designed to protect 'us' from 'them' - but I don't think the Accords offered up in Civil War are the way to go.  Obviously, can't say for sure (A.) They don't exist and B.) I can't read the giant manual in-full), but the fact that they were trying to pin the destruction in New York and Washington on the Avengers tells me they probably weren't looking at it properly.  You have an alien army attacking the Earth with essentially no prep-time and no warning and when a government-like entity did try and get involved, their answer was to nuke the place, killing everyone in the area and causing irreparable damage - yeah, the damage done "by" the Avengers pales in comparison.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: ThePerm on May 11, 2016, 05:31:23 AM
The thing with Agent Coulson...are the avengers even aware he isn't dead? I don't remember if he was on winter soldier or not.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: oohhboy on May 11, 2016, 06:44:45 AM
The thing with Agent Coulson...are the avengers even aware he isn't dead? I don't remember if he was on winter soldier or not.
Not at all. He gets "Promoted" aka, TV show. AOS references things and the odd actor makes a video phone call. Also wouldn't shut up about New York.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2016, 10:35:38 AM
By now, I'm sure they all know, and probably just don't really care. LOL

Lady Sif knows, which means she could have told Thor. Agent Colbie knows, so she could have told Stark or Banner.
BW and Clint ate both spies and not stupid, so I'm sure they know SHIELD is still operating and Coulson is running it... They have connections, but probably no direct means of contact, nor a need to seek him out.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Stogi on May 11, 2016, 03:41:55 PM
I saw it and if I had to some it up in a word, I'd call it "satisfying".

It had me worried about half way through about the should we/shouldn't we argument not really carrying any weight for a cataclysmic climax. So I was glad and surprised to see it focus on something a bit more primal, vengeance, instead.

That last scene of them fighting Tony was incredible. Absolutely perfect.

Now the film does have problems. One big one is that the debate is never truly debated. They had one scene and Tony gave a couple quips about Aliens and Ultron, but where is footage of other inhumans or heroes breaking things and killing people? Vision mentioned how Ironman started a movement, but there was no footage of it. Where is Cap saying that the government wanted to nuke an American city? Where is Tony talking about relief funds for Avenger ****-ups? Where is Black Widow talking about how governments can't be trusted due to first-hand experience? What about how Hydra infiltrated Shield? Could that happen again? Why is Antman not on Tony's side? Wasn't he trying to fly straight and see his girl? Where are the average citizen protests? Other than one mother, we saw nothing of the citizenry getting pissed off.

All in all, it made for a real lack of conflict. It never truly felt like they were fighting one another with conviction and that's why the last scene is so great. That conflict felt real and therefore, so did the fight.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2016, 07:30:23 PM
I saw it and if I had to some it up in a word, I'd call it "satisfying".

It had me worried about half way through about the should we/shouldn't we argument not really carrying any weight for a cataclysmic climax. So I was glad and surprised to see it focus on something a bit more primal, vengeance, instead.

That last scene of them fighting Tony was incredible. Absolutely perfect.

Now the film does have problems. One big one is that the debate is never truly debated. They had one scene and Tony gave a couple quips about Aliens and Ultron, but where is footage of other inhumans or heroes breaking things and killing people? Vision mentioned how Ironman started a movement, but there was no footage of it. Where is Cap saying that the government wanted to nuke an American city? Where is Tony talking about relief funds for Avenger ****-ups? Where is Black Widow talking about how governments can't be trusted due to first-hand experience? What about how Hydra infiltrated Shield? Could that happen again? Why is Antman not on Tony's side? Wasn't he trying to fly straight and see his girl? Where are the average citizen protests? Other than one mother, we saw nothing of the citizenry getting pissed off.

All in all, it made for a real lack of conflict. It never truly felt like they were fighting one another with conviction and that's why the last scene is so great. That conflict felt real and therefore, so did the fight.

Honestly, I think it wasn't debated because Steve Rogers has no legs to stand up.  Last movie he was against an agency having free reign to do whatever he wants.  He wants freedom and not to be put in check, but he doesn't want others to have the same.  The reason is understandable, he doesn't trust organizations, but he does trust people.

However, the more you get into the logistics of a team like the Avengers you realize Tony Stark is right.  I liked how Steve is blinded by his own friendship to see where he is wrong.  And how Tony is blinded by his own vengeance in the end to see reason. 

 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 11, 2016, 08:29:47 PM
Wait, why would AntMan be on Tony's side?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 11, 2016, 08:30:40 PM
He was in the comic
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 11, 2016, 08:55:05 PM
Comic AntMan is a lot different than movie AntMan, right?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 11, 2016, 08:56:28 PM
movie ant-man is the second ant-man so yeah.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2016, 09:41:17 PM
Ant-Man was recruited by Falcon, that's why he was on Team Cap. Stark might not have even known about him.

Cap was down to sign for some sort of regulation, but there was never a debate with the heroes on how that regulation would look, and that's why he was more hesitant to sign.

I'm glad they didn't actually skew the debate, as that would have added unnecessary length to an already long movie.

So to sum it up, they were both in a way right, and both in a way wrong, but Caps blindness due to friendship turned out to be him seeing the truth after all. Bucky was framed, and Cap was in the right top save an innocent man from a kill squad.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Wah on May 11, 2016, 10:54:26 PM
He killed tonys parents (even tho the mind control) that's still not innocent.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 11, 2016, 11:33:12 PM
Because Ant Man wants to be a "good guy"

You know, like the majority of the cast.

Seriously, though. The main issue was brushed under the carpet, because it was a Captain America film and those events merely stood as a backdrop. You could have likely pulled off the same story without the Civil War "references" in there.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 12, 2016, 03:59:48 AM
He killed tonys parents (even tho the mind control) that's still not innocent.

He was innocent of the crime he was being hunted down for.
He is only partially at fault for all his other crimes, as he was merely the gun being pointed. It was Hydra that loaded that gun, pointed it and then pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: lesavit7 on May 12, 2016, 09:05:25 AM
He's still partially responsible for being there.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: UncleBob on May 12, 2016, 11:39:46 AM
I don't think Tony, who is willingly responsible for the creation of an army of killer robots that destroyed a country and killed hundreds(?) really has *any* right to be upset at some poor smuck that basically died defending his country and his broken, battered body was recovered and brainwashed by Hydra.

Honestly, this was my least favorite part of the movie.  Tony should have came to that realization, and instead of the epic battle between him, Cap and Bucky, they should have teamed up and beat the crap out of Zemo, with a grand speech about how the Avengers are awesome BFFs and not going to let some jerk tear them apart.  Granted, I liked the more somber note the movie ended on, since it really opens the universe up in my opinion, but yeah, Tony was totally in the wrong at the end, no question.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2016, 07:47:34 PM
UncleBob:  If it was his father I think he might have.  But it was his mother who he loved.

Honestly, you could say a similar thing about Steve Rogers.  Look at what Bucky has done...yes brainwashed, but still he is a weapon.  He killed several innocent people.

The story arc of Tony Stark has always been one of regret for his past life and mistakes and how despite trying to do good, seemingly repeating the same mistakes.  His fatal flaw is he is completely emotionally reactionary.  He is brilliant given the time to think and work, but having to respond to his emotions he fails every time. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 17, 2016, 01:48:11 AM
Finally watched it!

- Cap should have just put Bucky in a medically induced coma instead of running around the world with him blowing stuff up. The Winter Solider is dangerous like a Psychotic on Bath Salts.

- Tony should have known better than to get into bed with a hastily written law that could easily be turned into totalitarianism against super heroes. (and kinda was)

- Why were Hawkeye and Widow even fighting?

- I think if Bucky had been wilfully killing people for years, Captain America would have still made excuses for him. Bucky was the last person alive from the world he once knew. His last connection to home. Just like he admitted he didn't tell Tony about who murdered his parents for himself, he was defending Bucky for himself.

- The CG on young Tony was really good!

- Spiderman was cool, I think Aunt May looked a little too hot though ;)

- Black Panther was great. I would have liked if they put in the Captain America-WWII connection.

- I'm glad Zemo is still alive, They kill off the bad guys too easily in these movies.

- Was there one after credits scene or two? I only watched the prison break.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 17, 2016, 03:28:44 AM
There was another. You get to follow T'Challa & Cap as they put Bucky under in Wakanda.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: ShyGuy on June 17, 2016, 10:02:51 AM
I think I saw that part too, it was before the credits. With the big Panther statue?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 17, 2016, 12:09:39 PM
Yes, post-credits scene was Peter Parker back at home discovering some type of communication device along with the Spider Symbol inside the web shooters that Tony Stark made for him.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Captain America: Civil War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 17, 2016, 08:33:22 PM
Yes, post-credits scene was Peter Parker back at home discovering some type of communication device along with the Spider Symbol inside the web shooters that Tony Stark made for him.

Oh yeah, that was the 2nd one... my bad.

it was some version of this:
(http://i.imgur.com/A120apY.jpg)


I think I saw that part too, it was before the credits. With the big Panther statue?

as far as the giant Panther statue...

(http://i.imgur.com/IHhMldR.png)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stratos on September 19, 2016, 06:49:02 PM
So in anticipation for both Luke Cage and Dr Strange I am updating our spoiler alert thread.


Dr Strange synopsis:


Dr. Stephen Strange (Benedict Cumberbatch), a young, arrogant surgeon with a promising career, loses his ability to operate after a terrible accident. Despondent and suicidal, Dr. Strange seeks advice from a mystical being known as the Ancient One and learns that he is the newly designated Sorcerer Supreme, responsible for protecting the planet from evil. With his girlfriend Clea and his loyal assistant Wong in tow, Strange sets out to fulfill his destiny.


We are almost to the release of Luke Cage as well. I never finished JJ so I'd better get on that before this since it take place after JJ S1.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 07, 2016, 09:10:48 AM

we know when the story starts, but not where it ends.

The story starts around the time of civil war. They mention a man in experimental armor getting injured, that is Falcon

When it ends? Not sure. Dr. Strange is a fast learner. I don't know if it takes him years to learn this stuff or weeks. I think he has a convo with Rachel Macadams that reveals how much time has passed, but not sure.


nope.
It mostly likely starts around the time of IronMan 2, and the man in the experimental Armor is probably a guy wearing the Hammer IM knock off suit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1M5i5Y4Qc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m50s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1M5i5Y4Qc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m50s)

Some of the events (or the entire movie) had to be taking place during or before The Winter Soldier, which is why Hydra thought Doctor Strange to be a threat worthy of mentioning by name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGpz8Q4Jq6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGpz8Q4Jq6A)

But they did a terrible job of placing this movie in the timeline, or conveying how much time was passing, because as you said, we don't know if his training took weeks, months, or even years.
Just knowing that it had to of started around IM2, and possibly ended around TWS means years had passed, but they way training, and the final battle took place, you would think it all happened rather quickly.

and the movie wasn't that long, so if I could play armchair director, i would make a few changes:

1: I would have dropped subtle hints about the year i the beginning. His invitation to the speaking engagement being the annual award dinner of 2010 or something. (this is very minor though, not that important, other than to establish the placement of this movie in the timeline)

2: His montage of looking for a cure, and not being to use his hands just a minute or 2 longer. Show more of him getting frustrated because he couldn't even hold peas on his fork or something. A few more failed doctor visits, alternative methods, etc etc. show the trip to TAO as an absolute last resort and final ditch effort. Not that this was portrayed poorly, but more so to really show how desperate, selfish, and verbally abusive he was.

3: Give Kaecilius 3-5 more minutes of development, setting up his plans, recruiting and explaining his desires. Maybe deciphering the pages he had read or more to the connection ritual so we have more insight on his point of view and give his character a little more depth. Maybe a quick scene where he also took over and blew up the Tokyo Sanctum.

4: Add a few seasons changing to a montage of Strange continually getting his ass handed to him or just failing during training, and the later half showing him exceeding the students next to him.
I actually would have shown him show up to training in astral projection form, and had Mordo come wake his physical form and make him physically come to training. I think that would have been funny, and shown that Strange has progressed so far, that he is now doing all this in his sleep. This would have also doubled as letting Mordo show off some.

5: Fastforward through a montage of Strange deaths, dozens upon dozens of them, a few of them were he seems to dodge attacks, or not die instantly. for one to show that it wasn't 10 attempts before Dormammu gave in, and two, to show just how dedicated Strange was to this selfless act. Maybe even a scene in the middle of it where Dormammu tries to leave, and Strange follows him while trying to bargain in his ear. Dormammu kills him out of annoyance, and then back to the rest of the fastforward death montage.

I know that we know that it was probably days worth of attacks before Dormammu gave in to Strange's terms, but the general audience walked away thinking what was shown was it.
same issue with the training. I think it would have helped the movie to to add maybe a total of 10 or so minutes to add the stuff above. The movie was only like 1hr 52 minutes or something like that, and the 1st two suggestion are minor, but to include another 10 minutes to add depth to Strange, Mordo, Kaecilius and Dormammu would have been more than worth it.

Overall I liked the movie, but I think those few changes could have improved things a lot.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Plugabugz on November 07, 2016, 04:50:39 PM
I think the movie was intended to sit outside the existing timeline in the same way how Guardians did.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: ThePerm on November 07, 2016, 04:56:29 PM
woah you've traversed threads!

edit: I also wanted to add two hours later, that i'm glad that you did because I was looking for a reply in the wrong thread.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2016, 06:28:28 PM
BnM:  I agree with much of your points.  However, we don't know if those scenes were filmed and cut for time.  I especially agree that they should have spent more time with Stephen Strange the Doctor before and after his wreck.  However, this film was already bordering on dark and depressing, so I am OK with them spending less time with some of the material.

I also, understand your point with the final battle, but we saw MANY different deaths and styles of deaths, and time is relative...perhaps it doesn't matter how much time took place.  Remember Dormammu exists without time and death...being trapped in any amount of time and loop could have been torture for him.  He may not even have known or experienced time and the effects of time like we understand them, so being restrained by time could have been maddening. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: ThePerm on November 07, 2016, 08:19:08 PM
Also, I had it backwards I meant War Machine not Falcon. Which, really puts into perspective how similar their characters are.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 07, 2016, 08:47:23 PM
Also, I had it backwards I meant War Machine not Falcon. Which, really puts into perspective how similar their characters are.

Which is perhaps why War Machine was taken out in Civil War, I predict the character won't be focused on very much anymore in the movies.  I am also curious who Disney will choose to replace Captain America when the actor leaves or the character eventually dies.  Falcon or Winter Soldier?  Both have been Captain America, and both could be Captain America in the future.  I honestly have no preference, however I think Falcon would be a better fit, because once Steve Rogers is gone the Bucky story line is basically gone as well.  Really the best thing they can do is have Bucky to save Steve or vice versa but have a very emotional end to both. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: ThePerm on November 07, 2016, 09:00:13 PM
The main problem with Chris Evans ever leaving the role of Captain America is he is going to keep getting handed amazing scripts.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stratos on November 08, 2016, 12:44:38 AM
I loved the film, but felt the pacing for the first half was too fast. BnM really hit the nail on the head for where they should have added a bit more to the film. This is possibly the first Marvel film where I have wished for a Peter Jackson/Lord of the Rings style extended edition to release on DVD.


But it did not detract from my enjoyment of the film, more it did it's job of leaving me hungry for more. I especially liked how they handled the cloak of levitation. Felt like it had the spirit of Aladdin's magic carpet.


I read some reviews that stated the humor wasn't entirely on point, but the theater seems to laugh at all of the funny moments and I thought it was well done.


I did almost wish for Strange to be a bit more faulted in the beginning, but too much could have turned people off of him. Not everyone wants to go through a brutal Game of Thrones Jamie Lanister "hate him then like him" character arc.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2016, 02:09:19 AM
BnM:  I agree with much of your points.  However, we don't know if those scenes were filmed and cut for time.  I especially agree that they should have spent more time with Stephen Strange the Doctor before and after his wreck.  However, this film was already bordering on dark and depressing, so I am OK with them spending less time with some of the material.

I'll probably watch it again, but it just seemed like they were rushing to the visual wizardry on this one. They didn't need to get graphic or get too dark, but they could have just spent a little more time showing just how desperate and hopeless he was to spend his last coins on spiritual healing after modern medicine ultimately failed him.

Quote
I also, understand your point with the final battle, but we saw MANY different deaths and styles of deaths, and time is relative...perhaps it doesn't matter how much time took place.  Remember Dormammu exists without time and death...being trapped in any amount of time and loop could have been torture for him.  He may not even have known or experienced time and the effects of time like we understand them, so being restrained by time could have been maddening. 

Yeah, I get that, but I'm thinking from a general audience perspective. I actually think the scenarios i thought up for the boss battle (and the training) would have taken that entertainingly inventive scene and made it a hilariously inventive one, yet only added about 2-4 minutes to the run of the film. But I guess we can hold out hope for deleted scenes.... I guess.

I loved the film, but felt the pacing for the first half was too fast. BnM really hit the nail on the head for where they should have added a bit more to the film. This is possibly the first Marvel film where I have wished for a Peter Jackson/Lord of the Rings style extended edition to release on DVD.

But it did not detract from my enjoyment of the film, more it did it's job of leaving me hungry for more. I especially liked how they handled the cloak of levitation. Felt like it had the spirit of Aladdin's magic carpet.

Yes. the Cloak was quite the character. and it probably would't have hurt if they could have had a few moments more to explore more artifacts in the NY Sanctorum before Kaecilius arrived...

But Aladdins carpet is a very on the nose comparison

Quote
I read some reviews that stated the humor wasn't entirely on point, but the theater seems to laugh at all of the funny moments and I thought it was well done.

I did almost wish for Strange to be a bit more faulted in the beginning, but too much could have turned people off of him. Not everyone wants to go through a brutal Game of Thrones Jamie Lanister "hate him then like him" character arc.

Lots of the humor didn't really hit me, but when Wong finally started laughing, that made me laugh pretty hard.
and the point I was hoping they would push to for Strange was not so dark that you hate him, but show him so broken, miserable, desperate, helpless and lost, that you actually start to feel bad for him... even though he was being a total dick about everything like it was everyone elses fault.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 08, 2016, 06:33:12 AM
BlackNMild:  I agree some seasons passing and giving us more time with him training would be good.  And if they needed to give us even some time with the other Doctor so you can see she is still struggling with losing Stephen...perhaps show her still researching cures and medical procedures herself...that is if you are worried the time would draw them further apart.

A few seasons changes during training could also be used to show even more trippy magic visuals and how just how devoted and how long Strange studied.  Personally, I would have loved him learning to manipulate time to study more as well...but perhaps that trick was already done in Harry Potter.

I strongly disagree with putting humor in the last battle scene by extending it at all.  Or showing some fast forward or anything to make that scene funny.  That is Doctor Strange's hero moment.  That is where he decides to be fully committed and devoted to being a hero and how he what kind of hero he was going to be.  It is very important in this movie Strange chose to solve the problem without killing.  This is very different than any other Super Hero movie.  In fact, his fighting was almost purely self defense, and he disengaged the "henchman" to fight the big bad.  This moment needed to have weight and be long enough for the audience to realize and understand the death loop sacrifice.  At this moment Doctor Strange was becoming a Christ figure in the movie.  He was preventing "Satan" from claiming the Earth through His death and "resurrection." 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 08, 2016, 09:35:58 AM
It was more like "Self-less Defense" but the moment was already funny in that it time looped and Dormammu was annoyed.
It's just that the initial impression from lots of general audience i've seen and read about, is that the 7-10 deaths that were shown, was all that happened. He was literally gone for 5 minutes, and now he's back.
2 extra minutes w/ a FstFwd montage would have just sunk it in that he was there for a while, suffered immensely, and stuck it out till he eventually got what he was asking for.

But it's pointless to bicker about, because we didn't get it. I just think it would have added much need weight and longevity that you mentioned. And the break in the middle to annoy Dormammu even more as he tries to just leave, only to get killed again and reset the loop back to the quick killing spree in fast fwd, would have just been a great way to break up the violence in a very Marvel way. Keeping it light, especially when it was about to get dark and heavy.

as a matter of fact, maybe they could have played out the missing time of the battle of self-sacrifice during the credits, after the mid credits scene, but leading up to the post credits scene. Marvel really needs to fill that space with something interesting. That's the real Marvel Movie fix that needs to happen across ALL the Marvel movies.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on November 09, 2016, 09:15:37 AM
Dammit Strange....

They said there was dangers to playing with time. We are now in The Dark Dimension. Dormammu won afterall.

I now have to root for Thanos to complete the guantlet, and reset the timeline.

and to now mask a wall of text about what I really feel behind the words of a mere phrase.

WE ARE GROOT.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stogi on November 10, 2016, 05:36:12 AM
Let me first say, this movie was the best movie visually I've seen since Avatar. The incredibly creative eye-candy blew me away. IMAX 3D is the way to watch this.

As for the story, I thought it was a decent introduction. Maybe a 7 out of 10. You guys hit most of the points I had problems with; ie not enough Doctor before Strange, the comedy was forced, the villain had no backstory, and Strange's self-sacrifice was glossed over too quickly. I really think if they added 15 minutes to the movie and cut down on the comedy, it would have been an excellent movie.

Speaking of the comedy, I understand it's supposed to be fun, and it was. Still, I really think this story, more than other MCU movies, lends itself to feelings of pain and desperation. I wanted to see Strange as whimsically cocky as ever as the head of his field only to struggle for a good part of the movie to the point of even contemplating suicide. I wanted to feel that sadness, self-loathing, and destructive behavior. It would have made the "traversing the multiverse" scene hit so much harder, and really give meaning to his waiting outside the monastery other than for the plot. We all wanted to relate to his character and we weren't given the chance.

That aside, I really have a problem with MCU villains. They all...well, kinda suck. There's nothing ever interesting about them (except Loki). I don't know if it's the scripts' fault or what, but I'd be hard pressed to name any of them. This is a real problem as a hero is only as good as their villain. This is why DCU will always be (more?) popular. Their villains, from the Joker to Lex Luther to Vandal Savage, have clear-cut motivations and personalities. In MCU, none of the villains (except Loki again) have any charisma, and so they're hard to care about and understand.

Last thing I'll say is, did you realize this movie had maybe 6 characters with more than two sentences of dialogue? Count them out. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I just thought it was interesting.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 10, 2016, 07:33:03 AM
That aside, I really have a problem with MCU villains. They all...well, kinda suck. There's nothing ever interesting about them (except Loki).

You should say including Loki.

Marvel's Heroes are more interesting than DC comics, but almost all of DC comics villains are more interesting than Marvel's.

Marvel has Magneto and most of the X-men villains. 

DC has Joker and most of the Batman Villains.  Lex Luthor, Bizzaro, Doomsday, Vandal Savage, Cheetah, Darkseid, Deathstroke...and more that are all pretty great.

But honestly Marvel could have great villains (Look at King Pin) but they don't spend time writing and developing those characters.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stogi on November 10, 2016, 11:15:22 AM
I forgot about Magneto! One of my all-time favorite villains!

There are actually a lot of great villains from the X-Men.

I like Loki. I understand his motivations and personality. He was destined as a child to fight Thor for the thrown. Hell, Odin saw fit to that when he pretty much told them both they could be ruler someday. And instead of trying to match Thor's braun to win, he uses his cunning instead. Now just give him a good plot that I can make sense out of, and you have a great villain.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: ThePerm on November 10, 2016, 04:24:28 PM
MCU Villains have been mediocre

The best villains Fox and Sony has.

Luckily Spider-man is back in the MCU. All of the Spider-man villains are good. Doctor Octopus, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Shocker, Mysterio, Electro, Vulture, Venom, Carnage, Lizard, Morbius, Kraven, King Pin :P

(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/theultimateperm/toys/toys.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stratos on November 10, 2016, 07:51:19 PM
Most of the MCU villains so far had the potential to be fantastic. Many were even creatively cast, but I feel the direction wasn't there to make them truly memorable. Christopher Eccelstein in Thor 2 should have been great, but between all of the makeup and direction he missed the mark.


I suspect the problem really boils down to the MCU films being about heroes. They want us to latch onto the heroes. It was really the point of the MCU for the Avengers to get together. Because of this driven focus, we got a great film series which so far has culminated with Civil War, a film all about heroes versus heroes. Villains just take a back seat in the entire MCU vision.

The only villain I expect to rise about this is Thanos, because he has been the only villain outside of Loki to have any sort of focus so far. Just as the Avengers was the end goal of the MCU in the start, so also is the fight against Thanos the new endpoint for the series.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Agents of SHIELD S04E15)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 22, 2017, 02:26:35 AM
can we update the thread title to include Agents of SHIELD S4 so Far.... because it's not even over yet, but someone else on this forum had to of been watching besides me.

This season YTD is the best MCU related thing this year (so far) and last year without a doubt.

here is a SPOILER (don't look until you are caught up on the LMD arc of AoS)
https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/834255157307207682 (https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/834255157307207682)

we need to break down this episode. I need some Khushrenada like insight to the meanings of everything that happened in tonights episode alone. **** was crazy.

Who's watching besides me!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Stratos on February 22, 2017, 03:00:42 AM
I was waiting for the season to hit Netflix this Summer/Fall, but will have to get it back on our plate and catch up.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Agents of SHIELD Season 4)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 22, 2017, 03:11:47 AM
You got 6 weeks, but before you leave this thread till you're caught up, please rename the thread.

thanx :)

So many things to talk about, but just know that after Ghost Rider, the show actually gets even BETTER.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 22, 2017, 01:29:24 PM
I've been watching.  By far the best comic book show on TV.  Far less irritants than the DC Arrowverse tripe. 

Though I don't know why Daisy didn't lead with that super quake shot thing instead of taking a beating by the fake director and being shot twice by fake Phil and Mac.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Agents of SHIELD Season 4)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 22, 2017, 08:14:26 PM
She didn't have her Gauntlets, so she needs to be careful and conservative with quake blast.

and see didn't see PhiLMD and LMacD before she got shot.

the fight sequences were really good, and it was Jed Whedon's first episode as a director. He did a really great job, especially if he did the action scenes himself. Quake vs LMDirector was a very well shot scene, with minimal jump cuts.

The multi-twist at the end tho
antoniobanderas.gif

Where does poor Gemma end up? six feet deep?


and they didnt' even revisit the Inhuman left on the bottom of the ocean. He was suspected to be Darwin, where he will adapt to whatever circumstance he is in to survive it. I hope that wasn't just a loose thread to never be revisited.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 23, 2017, 01:34:54 PM
She didn't have her Gauntlets, so she needs to be careful and conservative with quake blast.
and see didn't see PhiLMD and LMacD before she got shot.

Yeah I know.  I was just thinking it would have been so much easier if she just dispatched him straight up like that but it's cool.  It is explainable and compared to the misgivings and overlooked nonsense in the Arrowverse shows it's completely fine lol.  I really should stop watching them but I just can't.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Doctor Strange / Luke Cage)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 23, 2017, 10:38:05 PM
She didn't have her Gauntlets, so she needs to be careful and conservative with quake blast.
and see didn't see PhiLMD and LMacD before she got shot.

Yeah I know.  I was just thinking it would have been so much easier if she just dispatched him straight up like that but it's cool.  It is explainable and compared to the misgivings and overlooked nonsense in the Arrowverse shows it's completely fine lol.  I really should stop watching them but I just can't.

We are all so invested in the Arrowverse, that it's more habitual to watch, more than it is excitedly looking forward to the next episode, like I am w/ AoS. It's not that it's all terrible, or maybe it is and I'm just so used to overlooking it's shortcomings, but I'm still mildly entertained by it, and I'm really hoping for a BIG payoff in the form of crossovers or something like that I guess.
tl:dr Arrowverse... I don't hate it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: Marvel Cinematic Universe (Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 4)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 25, 2017, 12:18:11 PM
Back to AoS though.

I know a bunch of people probably dropped this show back in the 1st season, and considering how many good shows were out then and out now, I don't blame them. Not many were so invested in the MCU that they stuck it out till the Winter Soldier twist (Hydra was there the entire time) that changed the whole show for the better.

Which means they also didn't stick around for the excellent 2nd season, which picked up the momentum from the end of the 1st season, and just ran with it and never looked back. It was like AoS was a whole new show at this point, a much better show at this point, but it was still the 1st season that set up some elements of character development and storyline that made S2 that much better. This was the season where they discovered Inhumans, where someone found out who they really were, what they could really do, and that they weren't alone. It ends with the cliff hanger of Simmons getting sucked into the black rock.

Now S3 was a bit of a bumpy ride with it's ups and downs, but overall it was very enjoyable. This was the Alien planet season, and the ep where Simmons is stuck on an alien planet was one of the best episodes of the show. One of the biggest builds up in this season is that Ward dies twice and hopefully Hydra was taken out in the process.

*Minor Spoilers below - this is a spoiler thread, but I wanted to talk about this show without diving into all details, just enough detail to renew interest in watching the show again.*

But on to the star of this show. The ongoing and Amazing Season 4 so far, as it's on'u 2/3 done, with a six week break before coming back to once again flip this show on it's head again.
Season 4 changes things up a bit in it's approach. For one it moved to 10pm on Tuesday nights. It decided to take it's borderline mature rating, and just go for it instead of trying to hit every demo like in S1, and the biggest and best change was that they decided to do 3 serialized story arcs with a thread or 2 connecting it all, instead of just 1 long "aimless" arc in S1 or 2 half seasons like in s2 & s3.
 
It starts off with the great Ghost Rider arc, which has a great storyline that involves the Darkhold and the new Ghost Rider, Robbie Reyes who drives a car, not a bike (although we do we do see Johnny Blaze on the Motorcycle too) One of the best things about this arc, besides Ghost Rider himself, was that it set up the next arc so well with use of the Darkhold and the creation of an LMD... using the Darkhold. This opening arc of S4 was so good, you figured, it's probably never going to be this good again.... seeing as GR had to make an exit from the show. Well, we were wrong.
Arc #2: LMD is actually EVEN BETTER.
LMD standing for Life Model Decoy, and the first prototype being A.I.D.A, and she is more terrifying than Ultron, and this season so far was actually better than the movies. Bold statement, I know, but one I believe to be true at this moment in time, as there are dozens and dozens of hours of build up and development in this show vs the movies. The sense of mystery and distrust built up in this season has been incredible. Between not knowing who is who, are you yourself, are you what and who you say you are, and is this reality, AoS really stepped up their storytelling and last episode that just aired before the last break of the season really has the potential to flip this show on it's head once again.

We find out that AIDA is crazy. Her objective is clear, but the process in which she interprets her programming to be more human has allowed her to rationale her thoughts. This led to preserving Radcliffe's life as programming, but not in the way he expected... or wanted.
Her reading the Darkhold has giving her access to understanding of things way beyond what we thought possible, and this lead to her creating not only a portal to the Limbo Dimension to rescue Coulson and Fitz, but also to creating artificial brains that allowed the for real LMD's and the Framework, which is a Virtual Reality that that simulates the entire world down to the most minute details. Artificial brains allowed Radclife and AIDA to map the entire human brain into an LMD so that the LMD may not even realize it was an LMD, but the framework allowed them to store the host body in stasis while they occupy the mind in a completely realistic virtual environment that was indistinguishable from reality... except they controlled what the reality was in here.
The dark side of this virtual reality is that AIDA was told to map brains and remove a guilt, and make that the host new reality, so this is where things can get flipped on their heads.

*Actual Spoilers Ahead*
Coulson, May, Mack, Fitz, and the Director are all trapped in the framework and don't know it.
Their LMD bodies have all been disposed of at this point.
Daisy and Simmons decide to jump into the frame work to rescue them.
-Coulson is no longer an Agent, but now a teacher, as he sometimes wished he never got in that life.
-Mack is at home with his daughter Hope that he never lost due to whatever that tragic accident was.
-Fitz is ballin' with a babe of some sort on his arm as he gets out of a limo in his expensive suit  Looks like maybe he invented some tech that made him insanely rich. I'm assuming Aida is his girl. and I assume that because....
-Simmons has a grave stone with a death date of November 8th, 2XXX which, could mean she wakes up in the Virtual world in a pine box.... or not... who knows.
-May is an Agent of Hydra, in the rebranded Triskellion with a giant Hydra logo on the side.
-Skye wakes naked in the bath, getting notified that she and her BF are being called in. she assumes it's Lincoln, but nope, it's even better. Her boyfriend in this virtual world is Ward. Yes he is back.

and back in the real world, Aida is chopping up a body to create a remote controlled LMD using a real human brain. One that feels real feelings in it's fake body. In other words, she put a dudes head in a box (it's still alive), and connected him remotely to an artificial body. The power of the Darkhold at work here people.

and it's been suggested by Marvel that the name of the 3rd arc is Agents of Hydra, but I'm hoping its something better than that.

The most impactful thing about this last episode is it calls back to everything you know about these characters in an attempt to realize not only what their regret was, but why it puts them where they are in The Framework.

So now, lets talk about where this next arc will take us and where it might leave us.
and who comes out of this, assuming they come out of this, with the worst case of PTSD?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Guardians of the Galaxy V2 / Iron Fist / AoS S4)
Post by: Stratos on February 25, 2017, 01:12:32 PM
Updated with the next "wave" of releases. I was watching AoS with my wife, but I may ask her to let me cheat ahead on my own, because all I'm really watching on my own right now are reruns of P&R and American Dad, SW Rebels, Empire, and Once Upon a Time. Everything else I am watching is "watch with the wife" material so it is all on hold until we can find time to watch together. Too many shows with too little TV-together-time. I've already released her to watch ahead on some of our joint shows she cares more about, so I'm sure she won't mind me jumping ahead with Agents.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Agents of SHIELD S4 - It's great stuff, people!)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 27, 2018, 10:55:34 AM
The guy next to me made the film worth it. He was gasping and shocked and surprised and pointed at the screen and super into it but not overly so. His enthusiasm was infectious.

Then at the end he shouted **** YOU MARVEL! and everyone started laughing

Well.... when Fury was like "You Mothafu::fade to dust::...." I said No No NO NOOO NOOOOO Not Fury!!!!!!

Then everyone kept asking me what the symbol was that got the distress call out for. It's gonna be real interesting ho the Capt Marvel plays out, and how AoS is going to react this. OMG AoS... that just occurred to me ;_;
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Agents of SHIELD S4 - It's great stuff, people!)
Post by: Evan_B on April 27, 2018, 03:21:28 PM
It’s almost as if people didn’t expect a dude with a reality-controlling gauntlet to kill half the universe.

Even Marvel’s pseudo-high stakes can’t make for compelling drama.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Agents of SHIELD S4 - It's great stuff, people!)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 27, 2018, 05:00:49 PM
I still think each movie or show should have its own spoiler thread. I've never seen AoS and only wanna talk about Infinity War...
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Stratos on April 28, 2018, 08:50:49 PM
Changed the title to reflect the current film. Not reading comments until after viewing film tomorrow morning. Happy spoiling!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 28, 2018, 09:58:19 PM
I still think each movie or show should have its own spoiler thread. I've never seen AoS and only wanna talk about Infinity War...

You should fix that. It's actually a really good show. Top Tier MCU stuff.

I still can't believe how punked Hulk was in that whole movie. He was literally acting like a scared little bitch that didn't want to come out of his room. It was actually kinda funny. Thanos literally punked Hulk in the first 5 minutes of the movie, and all he does for the rest of the movie is poke his head out and say "NOOOOOOO". LOL

Doctor Strange looked at 1million possible outcomes.... and in none of them did he rewind the moment where Starlord lost his **** and fucked up the plan because of his feelings. They were seconds away from getting that gauntlet off of him... "it was the only way...."
I'm assuming he saw the outcome of Avengers 4 knowing that he would be back, but I'm pretty sure had they gotten the glove off of Thanos, they could have left him stranded on that planet and at least bought more time, or just outright kill him while he was "incapacitated".

Scarlet Witch also could have prevented this mind stone if only she had done what needed to be done, long before she actually did it..... :/
Tough choice for her though.

So many damn things happened in this movie. I'll probably keep parsing out thought randomly over time on this one.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: oohhboy on April 28, 2018, 10:56:03 PM
You should take the Agents of Shield talk to the Rate the TV show thread so it doesn't disappear under IW.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 29, 2018, 05:21:56 PM
Just took my kids to see it. When the screen went dark, my son asked "are they dead?" and I nodded my head...he burst into tears.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Stratos on April 29, 2018, 08:16:06 PM
I cried as Tony held Peter. That was the hardest moment. But the whole film was hard. I'm torn up that Heimdall and Loki are gone (still convinced that Loki faked it, he would never go out in a noble fashion like that, definitely faked it out somehow for sure, but had to make it believable.)


All of the Guardians are gone except for Rocket. Though it is fairly obvious everyone disintegrated in that moment will be back when they are able to reverse it. Hopefully it also reverses the deaths on the Asgardian ship. I am told there was another ship with Valkyrie and Korg on it, explaining their absense. Felt a little hollow to see everyone die there after the events of Ragnarok.


I really liked how they built up Thanos. It worked and worked well. You understood his stance, but he was still wrong. He was absolutely the star of the film.


Also, did they confirm that Hela died? I presumed there was a chance she survived. She deserved another chance to be a villain. But Thor talks about killing his sister.



Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 29, 2018, 09:10:07 PM
I mean Thor assumes she died because it literally happened like minutes before Infinity War started...so who knows.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 29, 2018, 09:50:56 PM
Quote
I really liked how they built up Thanos. It worked and worked well. You understood his stance, but he was still wrong. He was absolutely the star of the film.

ehhh...

Don't get me wrong, I liked Thanos as the villian... but his motivation is so flimsy to me.

Finite resources in the universe.  Sure, with you so far.

Life cannot continue to expand uncontrolled and be substained on the finite resources.  Okay, I'll accept this premise.

Thanos plans to gather a source of limitless control over all time, space, reality, etc.  Makes sense.

Thanos then plans to kill half of all life... instead of using this reality warping device to, I dunno, create more resources?

Like, dude, you killed your daughter and it made you all weepy eyed.  Bring her back and alter reality so that life doesn't even need food to survive.  Look, I just cut down on the resources needed.

Also, I'm gonna need some more background on this "extinguish half of all life" thing.  Did he just kill half of the plants and animals as well?  Half of all bacteria and microbes?  Seems like that would dig into the finite resouces pretty bad.

Oh, and that helicopter (Thanoscopter?) crashing at the end... that probably killed some people.  Are they counted in the half that died?  Stan Lee has a bus full of kids going down the bridge when he disappears, causing the buss to veer off the side od the bridge and the 50 kids onboard to drown (sorry Spider-Buddy).  Do they count towards the half?  Ohhhhh.... a pregnant woman turns to ash... the fetus?  Is it a person?  Does it count?  Might have just solved the abortion debate here.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2018, 10:22:13 PM
Being able to dig into the reasoning of everything that happened. Thanos was beautifully developed and executed in this movie. We know where he was coming from, where he was going, and why he was trying to get there. We even knew he was willing to sacrifice it all (except himself) to see this through.
And even though he essentially had the power to be the one true God, he was still fallible and certainly killable.

Now if The Russos can pull off Avengers 4 in the same manor if not even better than the previous 3 MCU movies they have done (which all 3 fit into most people's Top 5.... I should make a poll), they will have cemented themselves as some of Hollywoods top grossing directors *for only having done 5(?) movies. They will basically be able to pick their next project and get the blank check to make it as well. LOL
Hopefully Feige continues to bring them back for future projects as well.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 29, 2018, 10:30:12 PM
>They will basically be able to pick their next project and get the blank check to make it as well. LOL

Justice Leage 2: Mustache Moar.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Stratos on April 30, 2018, 02:07:26 AM
I get that he could have created life/space instead, but I view him similar to a zealot of sorts, maybe someone like Judge Frollo from Hunchback of Notre Dame. He thinks he is a force of nature doing the will of the universe to "balance" things and believes that this is the only way. The argument with Gamorra settled that for me. He was the only one who "saw what needed to be done"... or at least of those that knew he was the only one with the gonads to attempt to pull it off. I wouldn't expect a person like him to even consider any alternatives just like someone who is a flat-earther would never consider an alternate truth, as every argument you put forth has some sort of flaw in that person's mind.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ThePerm on April 30, 2018, 02:26:36 AM
Thanos has the same character flaws I pointed out in the Iron Fist. Zealots usually end up being bad guys.

This movie was really really good.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: nickmitch on April 30, 2018, 10:53:21 AM
I don't think doubling the resources is a simple as killing half the people.  From Thanos's perspective, when he first thought of the idea on his home planet, doubling the resources wasn't an option.  Plus, once he has the stones, things like land and physical space are finite resources.  Would doubling that mean making planets twice as big?  Would that impact how habitable the planets are?  Would doubling all the resources cause life to increase at an increasingly rapid pace?  Would he just have to keep doubling the resources every few centuries as they constantly run out?  At what point does the entire universe run out of space?  Can he make the finite universe bigger?

Seems easier just to wipe out half of the people.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: nickmitch on April 30, 2018, 11:07:13 AM
Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.  The excuse for Ant-Man not being there was that Scott was on house arrest during the film.  Does the movie take place with Scott defying his sentence? or is it set after IW somehow?  The former seems more likely, so we'll have to wait until the post-credits for a even a tease of the next Avengers film.  We already know Captain Marvel takes place in the 90s, so that's another wait for the post-credits tease.

Also, is it just me, or were the heroes disproportionately affected by the half of all life thing?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 30, 2018, 11:38:47 AM
I think it's just you. 50% doesn't mean "every other".
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 30, 2018, 01:39:38 PM
Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: nickmitch on April 30, 2018, 05:19:44 PM
Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.

You're a monster!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 30, 2018, 06:17:27 PM
I think we will find out tomorrow, kinda, when the new trailer is released. I assume much of it will be before IW but some will happen during the end of IW.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 30, 2018, 06:26:10 PM
Looking forward, I wonder when Ant-Man and the Wasp is going to take place.

It is my hope that it takes place both before and during Infinity War and ends with a post-credit scene of Scott's daughter turning to ash.

You're a monster!

Yup.  But imagine the feels.

I mean, we all know it's going to be completely undone by the end of A4 no matter what - so why not go crazy?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Stratos on April 30, 2018, 07:00:42 PM
Another concern about "making more space" is the question of the limitations of the universe. What if the universe is actually finite in size like some astrophysicists/astronomers theorize. Granted, it is getting larger as things expand from the big bang in this scenario, but if there is an "outer wall" of the universe, then no amount of creation would solve the problem in the end.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 30, 2018, 07:19:29 PM
Maybe I'm overestimating the power of the stones.

To me, they sound as if they can defy all of what we understand to be physics.  I mean, he used them to turn Drax and Mantis into wierd twisty/rock piles without killing them.  If you give me complete control of time, space, and reality, should I not be able to change the rules of them?  Create a planet 100 times the size of a regular planet that can literally exist in the same space as 100 other planets the same size?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 30, 2018, 08:00:14 PM
But he wants to balance the universe, not increase the size of the things in it. I think he respects the stones and why they exist...he's not trying to "improve" the universe that created them...just balance it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: UncleBob on April 30, 2018, 10:43:51 PM
If a scale has five grams on the left side and ten grams on the right, you can balance it by removing five grams from the right.  You can balance it by removing all 15 grams.  You could balance it by adding ten to the left and five to the right.

Is any one of these options inheretently better or worse?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 01, 2018, 12:04:37 AM
Doctor Strange looked at 1million possible outcomes.... and in none of them did he rewind the moment where Starlord lost his **** and fucked up the plan because of his feelings. They were seconds away from getting that gauntlet off of him... "it was the only way...."

Scarlet Witch also could have prevented this mind stone if only she had done what needed to be done, long before she actually did it..... :/
Tough choice for her though.
Both are absolutely terrible story choices. Either Strange's power is limited to only perceiving the possibilities of a specific outcome (removing the glove, and no other elements outside of that, which is bullshit because every other element present could have some effect on the outcome of that single action), or he very deliberately chose that outcome because he perceived some sort of positive result down the line.

Once in possession of the Time Stone, Scarlet Witch literally could not avoid the Mind Stone being stolen. Further proof that when you try to tell a story about a character controlling reality, you write yourself into a corner.
Just took my kids to see it. When the screen went dark, my son asked "are they dead?" and I nodded my head...he burst into tears.
You should have said "until next year."
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 01, 2018, 12:39:54 AM
Doctor Strange looked at 1million possible outcomes.... and in none of them did he rewind the moment where Starlord lost his **** and fucked up the plan because of his feelings. They were seconds away from getting that gauntlet off of him... "it was the only way...."

Scarlet Witch also could have prevented this mind stone if only she had done what needed to be done, long before she actually did it..... :/
Tough choice for her though.
Both are absolutely terrible story choices. Either Strange's power is limited to only perceiving the possibilities of a specific outcome (removing the glove, and no other elements outside of that, which is bullshit because every other element present could have some effect on the outcome of that single action), or he very deliberately chose that outcome because he perceived some sort of positive result down the line.

That was my second thought, but I didn't put it out there because I wanted to spark discussion, and maybe someone else thought of it too. Maybe it was the only outcome where "everyone" survived in the end. Getting the glove off of Thanos, and no one else being powerful enough to really wield the glove with any strength just ended up getting pummeled anyway, and Thanos gets the glove back.

Quote
Once in possession of the Time Stone, Scarlet Witch literally could not avoid the Mind Stone being stolen. Further proof that when you try to tell a story about a character controlling reality, you write yourself into a corner.

Well, had Scarlet Witch just destroyed it back in the lab, or even sooner. Thanos wouldn't know what or where to rewind to get it back. He would've had to just rewind all of time to a point where he had come across Vision still in possession of the stone.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 01, 2018, 12:57:41 AM
Something I harp on quite a bit regarding the MCU is the number of unnecessary entries in the canon and how they add nothing significant, and although Doctor Strange was a "prequel" of sorts that had the character developing his powers, I just don't feel he's had enough growth or significant screen time to warrant the idea that he was planning for such actions. Despite the amount of fluff that exists in this series of films, I still feel as if the majority of the characters (with the exception of maybe Thor, which is something I never thought I'd say) have absolutely no place being in this sort of epic, cosmic-scale event. That is personally just a perception issue for me, but this Phase planning seemed to spiral out of control and proportion way too quickly.

In any case, even though the Marvel brakes won't ever stop until the movies stop making oodles of cash, this movie at least feels like a part one to a significant end, and I hope they scale themselves back a bit after Part 2. I mean, there are only two characters I could realistically see as worthwhile threats after this, and they're going to need to build up some serious stakes if they want to come close the scope and scale that was present here.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 01, 2018, 01:17:55 AM
GALACTUS IS COMING!!!
as pronounced by the herald Silver Surfer.


as a side thought.... what if the recreation of 50% of people turned into dust, isn't done perfectly and causes more than a few.... MUTATIONS? hmmmm.

Wouldn't that be Fantastic!? Or would the MCU just be DOOMed!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 01, 2018, 01:39:20 AM
So let's talk about the Hulk/Banner arc that's happening in AoU -> Thor3 -> IW -> A4

The struggle, the conflict, the adversity, the rivalry.
Bruce afraid of unleashing the Hulk, to The Hulk burying Banner because he's too weak, to Bruce finally gaining control again only to have to summon the Hulk back to fight again.
Now the Hulk get punked hard and turns into a lil bitch, forcing Banner to have to Man Up causing Hulk and Banner to actually communicate with each other.

So where do you think this arc leads in Avengers 4? Smart Hulk where Bruce and Hulk learn to co-exist in the same space at the same time? What's next for the Hulk?

edit: You think this will lead to Hulk getting his "Thor" moment. where he breaks onto the scene at a really pivotal moment, now bigger, badder, madder and even stronger than ever?

oh, and WTF.... I know they mentioned Hawkeye in the movie, and I know he wouldn't really have a place in this mess, but I swear the Russos said he was in the movie. Unless I missed him in that glimpse of the cabin in the middle of nowhere scene. LOL
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Plugabugz on May 01, 2018, 04:49:51 AM
The one thing that i have been thinking about is how the AOS Storyline conflicts with Infinity War. The season 5 plot suggests AOS has been stuck in a timeloop, and this has happened several times. If only SHIELD know about this then the Avengers won't (as they don't appear in the movie) and the events of Infinity War have looped several times already. Only by breaking the loop are the events of Avengers 4 allowed to happen and then stick.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: oohhboy on May 01, 2018, 07:05:04 AM
Forget about AoS being connected to MCU. Your head would explode trying and failing to make the connection. They stop Avenger level planetary threats as their day job. Easier to just assume that there are no Avengers or god tier superheroes because whatever reason makes sense to you. Maybe they all died in New York. RDJ is now having an endless bender with the whole team and they can't get out. Whatever.

Almost every season could have been fixed with a phone call. Even if they sent just Hawkeye things would get sorted pretty quick. Black Widow could take the entire team to the cleaners, butcher, back of the woodshed and finally some unmarked graves if she is generous.

Coulson knows these people and he would have some chips to call in even if they don't care about the planet exploding with them on it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Adrock on May 02, 2018, 12:04:54 AM
Saw Infinity War on Sunday, and I’ve been letting it sink in. I want to watch it again before going into a big thing about it.

When everyone was disappearing, I was convinced the action was going to cut to Hawkeye as he watched his family turn to dust. I thought it would have been a good way to show that this was happening everywhere. I mean, the audience is told this; it’s still important to show it. Then, the after credits scene happened, and I was content with that.

Speaking of, I figured it was going to be a Captain Marvel tease. I’m really glad Brie Larson didn’t show up. I remember reading that The Wasp was written out so she could make her debut in the solo (duo?) film, and I thought that was a good choice. I hoped for the same with Captain Marvel.

My understanding is Ant-Man and The Wasp takes place before Infinity War. I read some speculation/predictions that a good portion of the film takes place in the Quantum Realm and since time passes differently there, Scot and Hope could return right in the middle of the end of Infinity War as people are disappearing even if the story starts shortly after Civil War. That would be a pretty wild ending, but I think it would be a disservice to Ant-Man and The Wasp as a solo film since it would depend so heavily on the audience being familiar with Infinity War to make sense. Granted, if one is watching Ant-Man and The Wasp, chances are they already saw Infinity War, but Marvel shouldn’t assume.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 02, 2018, 01:45:14 AM
My understanding is Ant-Man and The Wasp takes place before Infinity War. I read some speculation/predictions that a good portion of the film takes place in the Quantum Realm and since time passes differently there, Scot and Hope could return right in the middle of the end of Infinity War as people are disappearing even if the story starts shortly after Civil War.

I wouldn't expect any Infinity War tie-ins outside of the post credit scene. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ThePerm on May 02, 2018, 02:11:25 AM
The one thing that i have been thinking about is how the AOS Storyline conflicts with Infinity War. The season 5 plot suggests AOS has been stuck in a timeloop, and this has happened several times. If only SHIELD know about this then the Avengers won't (as they don't appear in the movie) and the events of Infinity War have looped several times already. Only by breaking the loop are the events of Avengers 4 allowed to happen and then stick.

It would all be explained that the Avengers are busy. I don't watch AOS, I did a bit, but there was a time with more alignment. Anything in Marvel could be explained with Alternate realities.

The Defenders only touches on MCU a bit too. I imagine Marvel is just waiting to collect enough money to buy out Sony's complete Marvel rights. Which is probably something like 4.5 billion dollars. I can only imagine how much Kevin Feige raged or scoffed when he saw the Venom trailer.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: oohhboy on May 02, 2018, 03:27:52 AM
Seriously, don't think about it at all. Planet is going to blow up and they couldn't even keep Deathlock around. Call Pepper Potts, I am sure she has someone in her Rolodex even if RDJ is dead. Bloody call Ghost Rider. Even Aida would work as I doubt she wants the planet to explode if you can get her back from hell. Old Hydra wouldn't want the planet gone either or Hunter. How many heroes or villains don't want the planet to blow up especial with them standing on it.

This season disintegrates hard precisely because they upped the stakes far, far too high. The previous seasons were plausible that they don't send up the red flare. This season is not going to end well. I can't envision any payoff that will work within their means in show or outside. It has had some good episodes but I am watching a car crash happening.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 02, 2018, 10:30:03 AM
I left the movie after the single post credit scene happened, but was there really an end credit song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7GlmrHS78 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG7GlmrHS78)

Why do I not believe Marvel/Disney would actually put this at the end of the movie?
This has to be a joke right? can anyone confirm?


edit: There's a ton of good memes going around. So I 'm gonna sprinkle some here, and some there, so as to not spoil any other threads. LOL


(https://i.imgur.com/uP8ezVb.png)

:(
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 03, 2018, 07:04:14 AM
Yeah that song is not a real thing. The Chadwick Boseman-Hemsworth should have been a giveaway if the terrible song wasn't.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Adrock on May 03, 2018, 08:44:00 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/jHO48fd_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

#InfinityWarSpoilersWithoutContext
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Evan_B on May 03, 2018, 12:04:14 PM
GALACTUS IS COMING!!!
as pronounced by the herald Silver Surfer.


as a side thought.... what if the recreation of 50% of people turned into dust, isn't done perfectly and causes more than a few.... MUTATIONS? hmmmm.

Wouldn't that be Fantastic!? Or would the MCU just be DOOMed!?
I was actually thinking about The Beyonder instead.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Khushrenada on May 08, 2018, 11:07:27 PM
I still think each movie or show should have its own spoiler thread. I've never seen AoS and only wanna talk about Infinity War...

I've been beating the drum to have a movie/tv forum to do just that. Give each show and movie it's own thread and post away. Then when we discussed forum change (a year ago) so many people seemed to poo-poo the idea of such a forum so blame the other users for this problem. (I'll just keep blaming Insanolord.)

Quote
I really liked how they built up Thanos. It worked and worked well. You understood his stance, but he was still wrong. He was absolutely the star of the film.

ehhh...

Don't get me wrong, I liked Thanos as the villian... but his motivation is so flimsy to me.

Finite resources in the universe.  Sure, with you so far.

Life cannot continue to expand uncontrolled and be substained on the finite resources.  Okay, I'll accept this premise.

Thanos plans to gather a source of limitless control over all time, space, reality, etc.  Makes sense.

Thanos then plans to kill half of all life... instead of using this reality warping device to, I dunno, create more resources?

Like, dude, you killed your daughter and it made you all weepy eyed.  Bring her back and alter reality so that life doesn't even need food to survive.  Look, I just cut down on the resources needed.

On my drive home after seeing this movie, I thought the same thing. Why not make resources more renewable or generate infinite spawning resources? I suppose you can argue that even then it could eventually lead to incredible overpopulation yet shouldn't an infinitely expanding universe allow for more land and space to be created to continuously allow for there to be room?

For that matter, when Scarlet Witch destroyed the Mind Stone and yet Thanos didn't seem that disappointed, I figured he could probably use the Time Stone to rewind time and get it and sure enough that's what happened. So why didn't Dr. Strange rewind time for a moment to keep Star Lord from snapping Thanos out of Mantis's spell to remove the glove? As someone else pointed out with Dr. Strange before he vanished is that allowing Thanos to succeed might be "the only way" to stop him but guess we'll see for sure in part 4.

I left the movie after the single post credit scene happened, but was there really an end credit song?

That's fake. In the time it took me to get up from my seat, walk down the aisle and then turn to leave the theater than that song would have started playing based on the time it starts in that video and it did not. Plus, the lyrics do not seem Disney approved.




Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Khushrenada on May 09, 2018, 12:18:23 AM
For me, I do feel like Infinity War is definitely one of the best movies put out in this Marvel Universe but it's hard to recommend it on its own since much of its strength comes from all the movies and history from what has come before. So for those that don't get the Marvel universe or just watch some but not all of the movies here and there then it may not have that same impact. Part of me wonders how the Marvel universe may be received in a couple decades. The James Bond franchise has 24 canon films in it. Yet, aside from a couple, you can watch them in any order you want. Yeah, there will be differences between them based on the time it was made but that's the great thing about Bond flicks. You kind of know what you're going to get as it plays different variations on a theme so people can catch up on the series however they want. But with Marvel, I think it would be a weird and questionable experience to see these films in any order. You almost have to watch them in the order they were released to really enjoy movies that were in Phase 2 and then Phase 3. I wonder if that barrier of entry of time and planning to go through them all will affect newer generations and how they view the films. I was talking with my cousin who's around 23 and he's never seen Return of the Jedi to complete the original trilogy because the older effects in those films don't work for him and they're a different vibe from the newer prequel and Disney made ones though he's not really a huge fan of those either. Star Wars just isn't that appealing to him. Perhaps the same thing may happen to this cinematic universe especially since a lot of Phase 1 is a bit rough which makes going through those movies another barrier of entry due to the quality. (And then there is the similar story beats in a lot of the movies which can make them seem repetitious at times.)

Still, having mostly kept up with the universe, I knew what was going on. That said, I felt this movie almost needed a bit more backstory. Like what made Thanos decide now was the time to go after the stones? Was it the destruction of Asgard? It's not like Thanos went after the Tesseract first. He did attack Xandar which also seems like a big deal considering it's importance in GotG1 and the battle of Ronan. At the end of Avengers 2, Thanos has the gauntlet yet he destroyed that forge place to get it made so why didn't Thor and the Norse Gods realize this or get a signal about Thanos threatening it? Then we also got all these Thanos underlings which is odd since up to this point, we really didn't see much of an organization under Thanos and they were treated like they somehow mattered but ultimately didn't. From sitting in a chair on a rock in space to suddenly having a home planet with spaceships going to and fro, the sudden Thanos Empire was odd and felt like it could have been set-up more at some point prior to this.

I liked the Guardians presence in this massive team-up and they gave the movie a lot of its humor but it almost clashed a bit with the rest of the tone of the movie and the stakes in it plus they really screwed up a lot of things in Thanos favor. Teenage Groot was much better than Baby Groot so hopefully we get more of that in GotG3. Groot and Rocket were the only ones successfully doing things from that group. The (maybe) death of Loki (no one trusts a trickster villain to be dead after being such a big part of this universe and faking death before) and Idris Alba's character set the tone that this was going to be a movie with death and destruction so the only ones who are safe are characters getting sequels in Phase 4 (and even then the movie surprises with a lot of those characters dying yet obviously those deaths can't last). Apparently Thanos was the real Ragnarok.

For the most part, the characters were separated into groups with their own missions against Thanos. I was hoping for more co-mingling with the heroes but it would probably very difficult to schedule all those people together and allow them to play off each other and stand out. In some ways, it almost felt like an Avengers movie with part of a Guardians movie grafted on to it. After Thanos took Gamora, how did the other Guardians know or decide to go to Titan since Thanos had never been shown before in these movies of being there or mentioning it as a home base? Thinking about it, although the movie does have a few fights and action moments in the beginning, it's mostly a slower movie with a lot of moving pieces as Thanos collects the stones. I think the best fight is the one on Titan with Stark and Strange and the others. The battle at Wakanda has some great moments but the battle on Titan had a better gelling of the hero's strengths in combat against Thanos and his power. I found the Vision and Scarlet Witch parts the least interesting of the film and they seemed to drag the most for me.

The Stark/Parker relationship is pretty good. Tony asking Peter how he'd handle the situation like he's teaching Peter a lesson on how unprepared he is for this level of threat only to go along with the plan Peter comes up with was a nice touch. Then having to face some of the Guardians and attempt to lead them was another great moment. I came in thinking Iron Man and Cap would probably be casualties since I don't think they've got much contract obligations left after this Avengers team-up but was shocked that they're still going at the end of this one. Still, I think they may bite it yet in A4 then. But at least Iron Man is getting a bit more time to shine before he potentially goes out even if his tech is getting more ridiculous. I guess that's what happens when you have Wakanda pushing the bar even further into magic tech.

Just how powerful is Thor? Dude can withstand the blast of a sun/star and the temperatures of space. I guess he can't summon lightning in space since he never used that power in the beginning when confronted by Thanos. Why didn't he go for the head or chop of Thanos arm or cleave him in two with the axe? C'mon, Thor!

I appreciate that at least Thanos seemed to understand the powers he was accumulating with the Infinity Stones and was successfully using those powers all throughout the movie. Harder to fault him since he kept succeeding with what he did while the heroes made all the mistakes. I really hope Part 2 can come up with a satisfying solution to this current ending and I wonder how it's all going to get resolved. The Infinity Gauntlet on Thanos hand seemed a bit destroyed at the end after he made his wish but there seemed to be another potential Gauntlet with Dinklage's character. That said, the stones are still attached to Thanos' glove so maybe it is still viable. He at least still holds the stones so they'll have to be taken from him.

The end credits scene of Fury calling to Captain Marvel seems to set her up as an important piece in defeating Thanos (so lucky thing she survives the 50/50 chance of Infinity Death) and makes her upcoming movie more interesting to see just what she is all about and can bring to this fight but this movie doesn't do much to inspire interest in Ant-Man and the Wasp which just seems irrelevant now and I really didn't care much for the first one already.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Plugabugz on May 09, 2018, 09:44:03 AM
The main reason why Infinity War works so well is the same reason why other studios trying to make their own universe of IP can't manage it:

1 - make a good movie first
2 - then add layers then payoff (sequels that tie into Avengers)
3 - then payoff the payoff (thus IW and Avengers 4)

Some movies have skipped to 2 (the mummy remake), then others went straight to 3 (justice league!). All have failed in some reason since then.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: oohhboy on May 09, 2018, 02:29:28 PM
The key is has always been #1. If your movie is just that good, and I mean perfect, you can jump to #3. The problem is after that you have nowhere else to go.

The big, big problem facing superhero movies and one of the many things Star Wars suffers from is threat escalation. With each movie the problem has to get arbitrary bigger and stronger. You have more, stronger, powerful, op heroes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2018, 11:22:00 PM
LMAO

(https://media0dk-a.akamaihd.net/78/48/41c7971ad8f1fd3b415d7aef841bbc05-infinity-war-memes-funny-marvel-twitter-tumblr-reddit.jpg)

I knew it would be something that started with an "H"!!!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ThePerm on May 13, 2018, 11:29:43 PM
The key is has always been #1. If your movie is just that good, and I mean perfect, you can jump to #3. The problem is after that you have nowhere else to go.

The big, big problem facing superhero movies and one of the many things Star Wars suffers from is threat escalation. With each movie the problem has to get arbitrary bigger and stronger. You have more, stronger, powerful, op heroes.

Head to 4. Phase 4 Fantastic 4.

Eventually head to Phase 7
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568816/
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: oohhboy on May 13, 2018, 11:42:51 PM
Head to 4. Phase 4 Fantastic 4.

Eventually head to Phase 7
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568816/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568816/)
lol: Inside a quarantined apartment building a man must protect his pregnant wife from his new neighbors.
Budget:ARS 2,500,000 (estimated)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ThePerm on May 14, 2018, 08:26:13 PM
It might be my favorite Argentinian movie. My favorite of like 5 "stuck in an apartment quarantine" movies.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2018, 02:11:15 AM
Dead men don't lie..... that is how the saying goes right?

https://twitter.com/Cade_Onder/status/996574880182231041

LOL. Fucking Mahvel!!!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 16, 2018, 08:10:28 AM
Lol, inside joke about Footloose.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: lolmonade on May 17, 2018, 03:34:05 PM
Is this the partitioned area we can talk about Infinity War freely?  I just saw it a few days ago. 


Overall, I really enjoyed my time watching the movie, although it's definitely not as well put together as the first Avengers, and I agree with Unclebob that Thanos' motivations are a bit too much to swallow (I honestly would rather it be all over some unrequited love/obsession with death). 


For starters, Thanos feels oppressive through the entire movie, in a way that feels suffocating each time he's taking action on-screen.  This movie more than anything is about him, which I don't know if it's intentional or if it just feels that way because he's such a pivotal part of the story that he seemingly takes up more screen time than any of the other characters.  How early on he decimates Loki/Heimdall, brutalizes Hulk, and humbles Thor sets the tone from the beginning.  The scene with him and the guardians shows he's not just a brute, but also clever.  And the battle sequence on Titan has fantastic moments between the team effort to contain him, Spiderman's "magic punch" and "magic kick", and Iron-Man fighting so desperately for that "one drop of blood" before being completely overpowered.


I also loved Thor's arc, because his moments in the movie were where you could come up for air, get some levity (for the most part), and where the movie generally takes a bit slower pace and gives some breathing room.  Him, Groot, and Rocket have some great interactions, and allow both humor and some somber talk to happen that gives Thor more dimension than he usually gets a chance to have.


Dr. Strange/Spider-Man/Iron-Man worked great together as well.  The tension between Dr. Strange/Iron Man with the quips and quirkiness of Spider-Man struck a good balance, and 2/3 of the Guardians joining up with them mid-movie was a great layer on top of that. 


Where I think things felt a little flat to me were Captain America/Scarlet Witch/Vision/Black Panther segments.  Partly because Cap felt heavily stone-faced and lifeless, partly because I have no affinity for Scarlet Witch and Vision's characters or romance that was just introduced, and partly because they've done the "hordes of mindless monster enemies" so often that nothing about this sequence felt particularly special. 




The "snap of the finger" wasn't surprising to me only because I got spoiled the end of the movie, BUT, Peter Parker's moment with Tony was a bit gut wrenching for me only because they did such a good job capturing the likely thought process of a kid realizing how badly things have gone wrong, looking to a parent figure for help, realizing it's too late, and apologizing for not doing good enough.  I saw my oldest son a bit in that moment watching it, and it was just really tough to witness in that sense.  Fantastic dialogue and acting in that moment. 


I really do think this movie is going to be thought of by younger people similarly to how some of us might think of The Empire Strikes Back.  It isn't a perfect movie, and even if you assume all the "disappeared" characters are going to come back in the next one, I can appreciate Marvel at least leaned heavy into the end of this movie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 17, 2018, 10:02:51 PM
This was stated from the get-go to be Thanos' story. With Thor having the 2nd most story in this movie.

And considering AoS got renewed for a Half Season, that airs after Avengers 4.... this Friday's episode is probably gonna kick your screen in and start cutting onions right under your nose.
They know I hate it when they do that too....

Oh and regarding the survivors of IW, notice how it's the original Avengers all still standing.

also remember that Thanos had to break his own Heart to get the soul stone.
the theory of T.H.A.N.O.S. is complete. The only question now is how does Thanos snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: lolmonade on May 17, 2018, 10:27:38 PM
It may have been stated from the get-go that it's Thanos' story, but from the perspective of someone whose been deliberately not actively following the Marvel Cinematic universe lately, it was a pleasant surprise.


I dropped off of AoS after last season.  Not that I expected it to drop off in quality, but I just didn't know if I was interested in investing time into the show after Coulson ends up in spaaaaace.


Yep, definitely noticed besides Rocket and Blue robo girl that it was OG Avengers.  Not sure what the implication is there for storytelling, but makes me believe that at least for a few of them Avengers 4 will be their last movie.



Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 24, 2018, 10:20:00 AM
So even if they reverse the Infinity Gauntlet, Heimdall, Loki, Gamora, and Vision are all still dead, right?

Am I the only one disappointed we didn't get to see Nova Corp vs Thanos?

Was that a dark elf from Thor 2 that Thanos had working for him?

What exactly does the mind stone do? Did Thanos know he was loaning it to Loki in the form of the staff in Avengers 1?

Is Thanos dead from Thor killing him?

edit: More questions

Where was Captain America's shield?

Red Skull must have unknowingly Tesseract'ed himself to some distant planet when the ship crashed, right?

Asgard getting destroyed was the signal for Thanos to make his move, right?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 24, 2018, 10:33:29 AM
Shyguy:

Where was Captain America's Shield:  He left it with Iron Man after their battle because Tony Stark said he didn't deserve the shield because His father (Tony's) made it.

Is Thanks Dead from Thor's attack?  Probably not, but that is left unknown.  Yes it was a lethal blow, but He still has the gauntlet and stones to change reality or some how heal himself.  Personally, I would love him to be dead...but the reality is he is probably very much alive. 

Red Skull, was transported to the distant planet with the Space Stone yes. 

Since the movie was already pretty long and Nova Corp sucked against Ronan I didn't need to see them suck against Thanos.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 24, 2018, 11:44:51 AM
I see people on the Internet complaining about Starlord being an idiot who screwed everything up, but Hulk was the most infuriating hero in  the movie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: lolmonade on September 24, 2018, 03:25:13 PM
I see people on the Internet complaining about Starlord being an idiot who screwed everything up, but Hulk was the most infuriating hero in  the movie.

Also, Starlord in MCU is a rash, impulsive idiot.  It is not out of character at all for him to act based on his emotions.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 24, 2018, 06:21:03 PM
I think Asgard bring destroyed was the signal to Thanos that Loki would have the tesseract wherever it was, and unfortunately for half of the survivors, he was on Korg's ship.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: nickmitch on September 24, 2018, 07:34:05 PM
Thanos knew that Gamora found the soul stone from Nebula, which meant he basically had the location of all the stones, meaning it was time for him to move.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 25, 2018, 10:58:52 AM
Don't forget that Odin not being in Asgard, and Loki neglecting his duties as "Odin" left the Dwarf Star Forge unprotected.
Thanos was then free to attack the Forge and force them to make him the Gauntlet w/o fear of Odin and the Asgardians interfering.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Avengers Infinity War)
Post by: Stratos on September 25, 2018, 06:42:31 PM
Would be a fun twist if Thanos was in fact dead, but there was a sort of "astral shadow" of him still walking around due to the power of the gauntlet. It takes him having to realize/accept that he is dead for him to totally pass away.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Stratos on March 07, 2019, 11:58:15 AM
Bumping for Captain Marvel spoiler conversations.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 08, 2019, 01:17:31 AM
my daughter LOVED T!!!

she was laughing, excited, and even asked a question during a specific scene.

Maria: "Call me (???) one more time, and I'm gonna shove my foot where it don't belong"
Talos: ".....am I just supposed to guess where that would be!?"
edit:(My daughter: "Where is her foot gonna go!?
me: straight up his ass butt)

Goose was definitely a scene stealer. (my daughters favorite character in the whole movie)

I really liked the message they had for young women and younger people in general.
The "don't let them get you down, tell you your not good enough, and that you'll never be what you aspire to be" message. And they managed to not shove it down your throat. It was prominent enough that it was obvious to those old enough to understand it.

There was tons of action, a bit of a twist, and we got answers to several long standing questions whether you were asking them or not.
Loved how they kept teasing about Fury's eye. LOL
Eventually we'll learn how he lost it.... right. He will neither confirm or deny anything.... :.

fun times. I enjoyed it. It was a fun ride.
I know they changed the origin a bit, but Carol being powered by the Tesseract works for the MCU.

Also love that they setup the reappearance of Monica Rambeau.
I wonder if that's an Endgame cameo or a Phase 4 cameo.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 08, 2019, 01:20:49 AM
Fucking great movie. That mid-credits scene was great...and shows you who is the character that's been hidden in the Endgame trailer.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: RABicle on March 08, 2019, 01:24:35 AM
my daughter LOVED T!!!

she was laughing, excited, and even asked a question during a specific scene.
Did she ask to enlist in the Air Force?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 08, 2019, 01:49:09 AM
my daughter LOVED T!!!

she was laughing, excited, and even asked a question during a specific scene.
Did she ask to enlist in the Air Force?

No... she asked where her foot was gonna go.
Kinda forgot to add that in the post. LOL
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Stratos on March 08, 2019, 12:49:15 PM
Good fun film. I wish there were some better fights, it was great how she realizes what's holding her back, but I was hoping for a bigger fight against the AI. It just felt like a bunch of ass kicking, which is fine, but I would have liked a more expanded showdown for the film's climax. Though I did like how he challenged her "mano a mano" and she just pummeled him, similar to how Loki got pummeled by Hulk in the first Avengers.

Guess the fight with the AI will be saved for the sequel. I do wonder how a sequel would go, do we get an explanation of her helping the Skrulls find a home and her fighting the Kree/AI, or will it take place after Endgame? Both somehow?

Also curious where are Maria and Monica? It would be great to bring in Monica as someone like IronHart or another new hero in the future. I feel like she has a future in the MCU, and she was adorable.

I loved Fury and Carol's chemistry. Made me a little sad, because they would have been great together in a sequel. Not that it won't happen still, but I'm not sure how many more films Jackson will be doing.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 08, 2019, 03:00:14 PM
Monica Rambeaux = Photon

Look her up. The next Captain Marvel I believe.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 08, 2019, 03:01:20 PM
I reckon (and am hoping) the mantle of IronHeart will go to Shuri.   She's perfectly placed to suit up.  She's got the brains, the tech, the materials, the facilities and now the motive to take over from Stark when if/he's written off in Endgame.  We also don't know if she was dusted so she may still be alive.

As for my thoughts on Captain Marvel.  I had a great time with it.  As is the general consensus, it certainly wasn't Marvel's best but it was a great romp and it was fun seeing someone so OP just go to town breaking stuff.  She did seem to be a bit emotionless at times but given the fact she has amnesia and is constantly chastised for displaying emotion I think it works well.

Some nice surprises in it too.  The opening Marvel Studios logo thing was a very nice touch.  Some very audible 'awwwwws' from the majority of patrons in my showing.  Nice to see the origins of the quinjet.  And of course the life and death battle where Fury lost his eye.

They handled the cat quite differently in this.  In the comics the cat is actually Carol's.  Yet here they just stumble upon him and he just tags along.  Which is fine I guess but I was hoping Carol would have had a bit more time with Goose.

I think it also would have been a fun fan moment to see Carol in the traditional black swimsuit leotard thing with the yellow stripe in one of her flashbacks, relaxing by a pool or something.  Also, sad to see the sash didn't turn up. 

As for the post credit scenes.  Talk about drumming up Endgame hype.  Many gasps as all of the main Avengers suddenly appeared on screen, then many more when Carol turned up.  (That's why I love going to the earliest possible showing. All the die hard fans are there, really invested in the movie and the atmosphere in the cinema is charged, really enriching the experience.)  They could have improved the last one though.  When Goose spat up the tesseract it should have knocked something expensive off the desk.  Since that's what cats do afterall.

Going again this afternoon for a second viewing.  Then it's the loooong wait to Endgame. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: oohhboy on March 08, 2019, 11:27:52 PM
Brie is a allergic to cats. Yeah.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/01/brie-larson-severely-allergic-captain-marvel-cat-goose-8789566/
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: nickmitch on March 09, 2019, 08:48:54 PM
Just watched it.  Great movie.  I was most impressed with how they got the crickets in the Louisiana scenes.

Very nice that they set up Monica Rambeau to be in future films since she'd be 20+ years older, so right around the age where she could start caping up in Phase 4.

The mid credits scene was perfect.  While I kinda expected her to make more of a grand entrance in endgame, that scene was just the best.

One of my favorite moments from the film was when everyone was sitting around waiting for the audio to load on the computer. Fury was just being patient while Captain Marvel was like "WTF?".  I laughed that whole time.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 10, 2019, 06:14:21 PM
I watched Captain Marvel the other night and I enjoyed it a lot.  The start of the movie was a little odd and I felt out of place in it but that was probably intentional for the 3rd act and how that all played out.    Something felt off when Vers went and talked with the Kree Supreme Intelligence and that device on her neck changed her mind and she went off and did her mission.

When Vers got dropped on Earth it was like I was transported back to the 90s and the tone was pretty funny with everything.  I do like the buddy cop theme between Fury and Vers once they got going.

I do think what they did with the Kree refuges was interesting and it subverted my expectations from Secret Invasion. Although it kinda went along with it in that in this and Secret Invasion they both needed somewhere to live but in Captain Marvel it was handled differently.

When I was talking with my friends the other night about the movie I asked them if Fury had that cat in the previous movies in the MCU and they said he didn't so I am kinda wondering where the cat went between the end of Captain Marvel and the first Iron Man.   Kinda interested in that. 

The mid credit scene tied into some of the Endgame trailers I saw and I was like that is so cool and glad to see Carol in Endgame.

Finally I want to say I like how the third act was resolved versus Yon-Rogg. He tried to bargin out of actually fighting Captain Marvel when she was full binary and tried to get her to fight him on his terms but she said "I have nothing to prove to you" to take back the power he had over her from the first act.  Nicely done.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Adrock on March 10, 2019, 11:42:29 PM
I liked Captain Marvel a lot. When I rewatched both Black Panther and Ant-Man and the Wasp, I realized they were better the second time (more so the former). I got to appreciate it for what it was, not what I wanted it to be. I think my problem was I kept expecting them to be better than previous MCU movies or to show me something I’ve never really seen before which isn’t completely fair though it would be nice. That said, I went into Captain Marvel with a different mindset so that’s probably why I enjoyed it more.

The filmmakers did an excellent job with Carol’s arc. No complaints there. And an important note is that Captain Marvel wasn’t upstaged in her own movie like Black Panther and Ant-Man (though at least The Wasp was in the title). Brie Larson did a great job. She had amazing chemistry with Samuel L. Jackson. Speaking of, it was good to see him in a substantial MCU role again. I was a bit disappointed that Phil Coulson wasn’t in it as much, but I’m just nitpicking. The writers made smart choices, more importantly the right ones for the movie. Coulson is in this as much as he needs to be in this.

They nailed the 90s. The loading joke was *chef kiss*. Stan Lee’s cameo is probably his smartest cameo in any Marvel movie even though it completely breaks the universe. He’s reading the script for Mallrats and presumably playing himself in that movie which now exists in the MCU. What would Stan Lee be famous enough for to have a cameo in Mallrats? It’s a joke that’s just worth having despite being completely illogical like the X-Men appearing in Deadpool 2.

I really liked the slow build up and how Captain Marvel didn’t just go wild with her powers. They’re playing the long game. You can’t just go full Man of Steel in the first movie. You never go full Man of Steel because you write yourself into a corner and then make Batman v Superman. It would have been nice if Ronan the Accuser did something this time except he didn’t, and they just teased him doing things which felt like a waste since we know he dies in Guardians of the Galaxy.

My only major problem was how the Starforce/Kree soldiers just wouldn’t use their guns at the end of the second act. They’re just not shooting Fury, Maria, and the Skrulls. “Eject them into space.” Why? Just shoot them. I don’t understand why they won’t just shoot.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: ThePerm on March 12, 2019, 01:31:37 AM
Stan's parts really don't need to be logical. The fact that he's been able to cameo in Fox Marvel, Disney Marvel, and Sony Marvel is enough to know he is Stan the Man.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 12, 2019, 02:42:29 AM
I would definitely not say that this movie has ruled out a Secret Invasion story at all.  This is 25 years prior to current events. And who's to say that the Skrulls were honest with them and aren't the bad guys after all?  I don't think we have any guarantee that all the skrulls that ended up on earth actually left.  There was a whole frigate thing in earth's orbit with many ejection pods after-all. Surely more than Director Krennik's pod landed.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if a big Skrull curve-ball is pitched our way sometime in the next phase or two.  If anything, this set up is a stroke of genius because if they do go that path one day it'll make the reveal far more powerful.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Wah on March 12, 2019, 04:26:51 AM
Captain marvel did a dookie in her panties.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Wah on March 12, 2019, 04:27:17 AM
It's very stinky send help!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Wah on March 12, 2019, 04:28:13 AM
Only real gripe with the movie is the skrull are good guys like wtf.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: nickmitch on March 12, 2019, 01:47:49 PM
I would definitely not say that this movie has ruled out a Secret Invasion story at all.  This is 25 years prior to current events. And who's to say that the Skrulls were honest with them and aren't the bad guys after all?  I don't think we have any guarantee that all the skrulls that ended up on earth actually left.  There was a whole frigate thing in earth's orbit with many ejection pods after-all. Surely more than Director Krennik's pod landed.

I wouldn't at all be surprised if a big Skrull curve-ball is pitched our way sometime in the next phase or two.  If anything, this set up is a stroke of genius because if they do go that path one day it'll make the reveal far more powerful.

This is a good point.  If the Skrulls were still the villains at the end, then there would always be the question of "Well, did they get all of them?".  But since they're shown as the victims, you wouldn't really have any reason to suspect any of them would still be on earth.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: UncleBob on March 12, 2019, 02:58:35 PM
I mean, they're an entire race of beings. Just because some are sympathetic and or heroes, it doesn't rule out the possiblity of bad ones coming in the future.  Heck, the fact they're sympathetic may give rise for great storytelling of refuges just doing whatever it takes to make a home for themselves.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BeautifulShy on March 13, 2019, 03:40:34 AM
I have been watching the New Rockstars YT channel for several months and they tend to do these full movie breakdowns for the MCU and DCU movies. Well worth a watch.


For BnM.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPXDl-HRjlk
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: Stratos on March 13, 2019, 11:49:44 AM
Stan's parts really don't need to be logical. The fact that he's been able to cameo in Fox Marvel, Disney Marvel, and Sony Marvel is enough to know he is Stan the Man.

The best part was how she looked at him, and gave that knowing half-smile. I like to think she could tell he was a Watcher and thought "Don't worry, your secret is safe with me".
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 13, 2019, 09:10:00 PM
Pretty sure the intentional focus on Talos's daughter seeing him I'll the Kree soldier will end up having a huge impact on the Secret Invasion storyline. My assumption is you won't see the Skrulls again until the post credits scene of Captain Marvel 2.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Captain Marvel)
Post by: ThePerm on March 17, 2019, 07:27:23 PM
Skrulls could still go bad. Maybe the next generation of Skrulls are jerkish. These things happen in cycles.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Stratos on April 16, 2019, 03:42:18 AM
Looks like we are in the Endgame now. Not seeing until Friday night so will be back then.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2019, 01:33:31 PM
Spoilers ahead.

Just finished watching the movie.  Honestly it was fun, but predictable.  Everything everyone guessed would happen basically happened, with only one surprise death.  As for the movie itself, the End Scene was a mess.  Where Infinity War's final battle cleanly jumped from one character piece to another.  End Game tried to do that, but mostly failed.  Was it a good roller coaster battle, yeah...but it seemed like they had to JAM a scene with every character in a very short timespan. 

The best the movie had was the time travel.  So many throwbacks to the best and most classic scenes from the movies.  It was clever, fun and surprising how they worked the time travel elements into the movie.  It was the best part of the movie and made the event truly unique and special.  Not many movies pull off time travel this good. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 24, 2019, 03:21:03 PM
That was awesome.  A truly worthy way of wrapping up the saga.  So many fan moments.  Several moments of applause throughout our showing.   I will agree the final battle wasn't as smooth as IW, but given they had heaps more characters to try and fit in I'll let it slide.  And the fan service was was absolutely amazing which more than made up for it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 24, 2019, 08:37:05 PM
That was awesome.  A truly worthy way of wrapping up the saga.  So many fan moments.  Several moments of applause throughout our showing.   I will agree the final battle wasn't as smooth as IW, but given they had heaps more characters to try and fit in I'll let it slide.  And the fan service was was absolutely amazing which more than made up for it.

Yes, I think the final battle definitely can slide.  Besides the final before the final battle was so great, that the fight didn't need it. 

I didn't mention it in my post, but I am amazed how this movie was able to capture the themes and feeling of several of the independent movies throughout this movie.  It tied bows around loose ends, and really helped give closure from almost every character.  The movies 2nd act is so strong, that it makes up for a slightly underwhelming 3rd act.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 25, 2019, 06:16:38 AM
Just got back from my second viewing. 

I missed this the first time, but Carol had her sash as well as her Captain Marvel haircut after the five year jump.  I'm so happy.  I was disappointed she didn't end up with it in her movie, but this is the next best thing.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 26, 2019, 02:29:09 AM
Fat Thor

Looking just like Lebowski. OMG, that had me.

Now Thor truly is the "Everyman" character.
Asguardians of the Galaxy... that should totally be the name of the GotGvol3

I've heard it before, but it's a good name. They should run with it.

and I know there was no "mid or post credit scene"
But what most of the audience didn't know was that last scene with Peter Parker, is probably right where the next movie picks up. Might be a shared scene with the next movie.

I was actually really surprised with how quickly the main villain was dispatched in the beginning of the movie too. Thor lopped of Thanos' head, and I was like "ok, roll the credits" and pretended to get out of my seat. Left me wondering how they were gonna undo everything and make it make sense. I had heard about the time travel theory, but I was surprised with how well it was pulled off.

Bravo Marvel. Bravo Feige. Bravo Russos.
now bring me more MCU asap.

edit: Can I also just state that I wholeheartedly agree with Valkyrie when she says she prefer either of the other 2 over blended Hulk. Hulkallo was kinda weird, and never angry enough.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 26, 2019, 05:16:21 AM
We now have a dignified, gentleman hulk. He transcends the need to smash things.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 26, 2019, 07:17:02 AM
Professor Hulk is great. I thought for a second when Ancient One punched out Hulk's astral form that she separated the two beings. I wonder if that will lead to Bruce finding a way to do it later.

I was shocked when Black Widow took Hawkeye's place, but it makes me happy that he was able to be there for the return of his family, and plus he got to be pretty badass throughout the movie.

I screamed "YEEEAHHH" as soon as I saw Mjolnir pass Thor because I knew it was going to Cap. That may have been the best part of the movie, and of course when he finally said it. I thought for sure right before everyone started reappearing that Thanos was about to kill him...glad that it didn't happen so we got to see the torch being passed to Falcon. Of course this means no Bucky Cap, but honestly in the movies it would be pretty hard to reconcile that with Bucky being an assassin for so long.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 26, 2019, 07:26:00 AM
The one complaint I have about the "Avengers Assemble" call was the delivery.  I had been looking forward to that moment for many years and when it finally came it was just......limp.  He started off well with a good strong "Avengers...", then he came out with such a quiet, grumbly "assemble" that it ruined the whole moment.  It should have been a strong, authoritative captain's call to attention. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 26, 2019, 08:33:52 AM
Loved Gentleman, Hulk. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on April 26, 2019, 06:25:02 PM
The one complaint I have about the "Avengers Assemble" call was the delivery.  I had been looking forward to that moment for many years and when it finally came it was just......limp.  He started off well with a good strong "Avengers...", then he came out with such a quiet, grumbly "assemble" that it ruined the whole moment.  It should have been a strong, authoritative captain's call to attention. 

I wanted a long “Assemble” too. It took ten years for him to say it and it was literally at the climax of a 22 film run. But I will say it kind of fit in its own strange way.

I’m also glad they went through the trouble making sure they fix the timeline, and calling out Dr Strange as the chosen one or whatever was interesting.

I’m really wondering what they do with WandaVision now. Certainly won’t be a series taking place after Endgame. Same for Black Widow’s movie.

I really liked that Thor has a place with the Guardians, since the character has really come around since his first movie.

Also, did anyone else see some sparks between Rhodey and Carol??
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on April 26, 2019, 06:33:46 PM
Well I guess there won't be a Black Widow movie.

This had a very Return of the Jedi, Return of the King, Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End feel. It was the culmination of something. The movie had a lot of moving parts. The most moving parts.  Not everything was going to be satisfied. I'd say the movie had a bunch of plot holes, but they're more like messy plot devices. I'd make some different choices with the final battle. But the movie up until that point was great.

One thing I would change.
-Captain marvel would not ever carry the glove. I know she doesn't have nanobots to screw with the glove really, but she should have maybe got back together with the team earlier instead of being a weird outlier. Her holding the glove makes the audience think "why doesn't she just put it on?" even if she can't in the back of your head you think "Aww Carol Danvers that little bitch, her stupidity is why iron man died" A better choice: Have some other character get the glove over to Tony. That way it's not in the back of your head. She definitely could take it. On the other hand she's reviled and nobody likes her Deusx Machina stuff. If she had put the glove on the fans would hate it more. That's why that beat should have been rewritten with a another character. I'd have picked Rocket. He's got little hands.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 26, 2019, 08:40:43 PM
1) Either A the Black Widow movie talks were to throw us off. Or it will be a prequel.  A Hawkeye/Black Widow origin story could be fun, but it isn't really needed.

2) I think Thanos' plan in End Game shows the flaw of the original plan. 

3) I am curious about the Time Travel stuff.  So the splintered into a new Timeline and everything that happened, happened.  But does that mean the infinity stones exist in the new time line still?  Or are they gone forever, since they returned them to the original moments in time, and those moments must lead to the old time line?

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 26, 2019, 09:24:58 PM

3) I am curious about the Time Travel stuff.  So the splintered into a new Timeline and everything that happened, happened.  But does that mean the infinity stones exist in the new time line still?  Or are they gone forever, since they returned them to the original moments in time, and those moments must lead to the old time line?

Steve went back and put all the stones right back at the time they were taken so in the past all those alternate events in the past no longer occurred.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 26, 2019, 10:57:52 PM

3) I am curious about the Time Travel stuff.  So the splintered into a new Timeline and everything that happened, happened.  But does that mean the infinity stones exist in the new time line still?  Or are they gone forever, since they returned them to the original moments in time, and those moments must lead to the old time line?

Steve went back and put all the stones right back at the time they were taken so in the past all those alternate events in the past no longer occurred.

If that is true, then the stones get taken and destroyed Doctor Strange will be very upset when Dorommoru (sp) decides to come back. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 26, 2019, 11:12:40 PM
Wasn't it rumored that BW movie was another prequel.... I guess it kinda has to be now that BW is dead.

And I'm pretty sure the Hawkeye show will be more of A Hawkguy with his daughter.

No idea what Wandavision.... Wanda discovering her reality warping powers and living her best alternate life!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 26, 2019, 11:24:53 PM
>I’m really wondering what they do with WandaVision now. Certainly won’t be a series taking place after Endgame. Same for Black Widow’s movie.

WandaVision could have to do with bringing back Vision's character.  No reason they can't write some reason to bring him back.

Black Widow could be a Prequel or could be a new character taking up the mantle.  Or a clone.  Which would be terrible.  I'd like it to be a two-part story, the first half featuring a prequelesque story with Johansson, giving us her origin while introducing a new, connected character that shares a similar but distinct background - and the second half being a "current" story where the new character becomes Black Widow in the wake of Endgame.

>3) I am curious about the Time Travel stuff. 

I kinda wish they had played it differently.  Basically,  Instead of calling it time travel, they should have said they were going to alternate but virtually identical dimensions within the multiverse, where time flows differently.  This would give them exactly what they were going for without as many issues arising by claiming it's time travel.

I am far more concerned with the missing five year gap for the dusted people and how that will be addressed going forward.  This is HUGE.  Like, say you remarried in those five years, then suddenly your spouse shows back up.  Or your older child comes back and is now your youngest.  If you were on a plane when you were dusted, did you come back in the sky and are now plummeting to earth?  If you were going 80 down the interstate, do you come back with your body flying 80 down the road?  Or are you standing still in the road and get smacked by a semi?  What happens to the "The Vanished" monument?  If I was born in 2002, snapped in 2018, and returned in 2023, How old am I?  Can I buy liquor and tobacco?

What the fudge does this mean for Agents of Shield?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 26, 2019, 11:37:53 PM
Basically the way the timeline in how it works is it has the standard MCU timeline and then when they go back in time it starts an alternate timeline and things that happen within that timeline branches off into different paths at different points until they get back to the snap where it continues on from that point where the snap still happened but because Thanos was beaten in 2014 then it kinda continues from there along the main MCU timeline.   New Rockstars did a video better explaining it in more detail.
For BnM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQEv_V9UjHI&t=0s
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 12:41:59 AM
Haven't watched that video, but, if Steve went back and spent a lifetime with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how did he end up as Old Man Steve on the bench in the "prime" timeline?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 27, 2019, 12:57:03 AM
Haven't watched that video, but, if Steve went back and spent a lifetime with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how did he end up as Old Man Steve on the bench in the "prime" timeline?
It happened because once the timeline converged again Steve had lived a whole life and wasn't trapped under ice like in the prime timeline.  Plus I think the Super Soldier Serum doesn't make him immortal it just makes Steve live a long time so he would leave the main timeline where Bucky and Falcon were, return all the infinity stones back to where they were and then Steve would go to that alternate timeline and stay with Peggy and then go to the bench where he left those two but aged.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 01:03:38 AM
Why would alternate timelines converge?  Old Man Steve probably interacted with a LOT of people in the Peggy timeline over 70 years.  Did everyone in that timeline just disappear when converging?

Like, say Steve met a guy named Danny McGee in Peggy-timeline's and played chess in the park with him every Sunday for the past thirty years.

Would this Danny McGee stop existing when Old Man Steve 'convirges' into the prime timeline?  Would he wonder what happened to his dear friend that went missing suddenly?  Are they having an International search party in the Peggy-timeline for America's most well known American Solider?  Or did the billions of lifeforms in that timeline get snuffed out?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2019, 01:15:53 AM
Yeah the captain America ending was the weakest part. 70+ years is a long time to be messing with a timeline.

Also, aren't there some lines that indicate Steve was semi-conscious when frozen?

And Falcon doesn't have super-strength. Where's he going to get a serum?

When the MCU started I had hoped they'd go really in depth into the whole super soldier program. They did for a little bit, but I had wished at the time Spider-man was involved so they could get Ozcorp involved.

List of places looking for a super soldier:
- Hydra/Nazis - Red Skull
- OzCorp  - Green Goblin
- U.S Government/ Dr. Bruce Banner - Hulk
- U.S. Government - Dr. Abraham Erzkine - Captain America
- Wakandan Government - Nature/Panther Cult - Black Panther
- Canadian Government - Various Weapon X scientists - Wolverine, Deadpool, Sabretooth
- Dr. Noah Burnstein -  Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, DareDevil
-Curt Conners - Lizard *accident

List of places building super suits
-Hammer Corp - A few bad guys
-Stark Industries - Iron Man, War Machine
-Toomes Salvage Company - Vulture
-SHIELD- Falcon
-Dr Octavius- Dr Octopus  *accident

If I were to redo Green Goblin's origin I'd make him be an experimentation with crossing Skrull and Human DNA
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 01:40:46 AM
Exactly.  But had they gone to different, yet very similar universes within a bigger multiverse, they could easily just have said Old Man Steve jumped back to the prime universe at the end.

Saying it creates a different timeline every time you jump makes it overly confusing.  If that's the case, when they went back to 2012 the first time, that's one jump and should create one timeline and when Cap goes back the second time to return the two stones, isn't that a second jump?  Shouldn't that create another branch?

If they had done alternate universes, that would seem to really help the whole issue and give Disney an opening for the What If series.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 27, 2019, 02:04:31 AM
I believe it was explained that they can't really change ones own past or memories but they break off into an alternate timeline that runs parallel alongside that timeline.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 03:01:14 AM
That's just... confusing.

Let's say I Scott Lang it and travel five years into the future.  Get married, have babies, then think "Damn, I should have invested in some stock five years ago."

So, I go back to the day I left and put $1,000 into the stock market.  *This* creates the new time line.  Then, I can go sit on a park bench, age five years, then I could meet up with my wife and kids from my old timeline?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 03:56:04 AM
Also: https://powerrangers.fandom.com/wiki/Past,_Presents,_and_Future

Yeesh, couldn't they have written an original idea?

😂😂😂
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 27, 2019, 04:34:46 AM
I wonder if it is truly parallel timelines, which would mean they never meet, which would make the old Captain America scene confusing.

Or if they are slanted inward moving ever closer to the main (Prime) timeline until the become back into sequence again.  But then then does that really make sense?  to me I would think it does, as there should only be one Prime timeline, and these splinter Timelines must merge back into the main timeline eventually...at least for the travelers of that timeline. 

Either that, or once Steve Rogers decided to go back and live out his life, we are in a 3rd timeline unknown to us all, and that timeline has Captain growing old.  Now you can say foul, because Steve would alter too much of that timeline...but doesn't it depend on when he goes back, and how low profile he lives his life.  If he lived a simple uneventful life not hero-ing and mostly off the grid, his life could have almost zero impact on the world. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 27, 2019, 10:18:14 AM
you could, but it wouldn't be your timeline anymore.
You changed something, so now it becomes a branch off your timeline into a new timeline. An alternate reality, I guess.

But yes, time travel is confusing. but that's why they established the rules within the movie, so that it made sense in the moment, and explains how it works in the MCU.

I can't go into the past to change my present.
If I change my past, I create a new path to an alternate present.
but if I go back and undo that change before it affects that past.... that alternate present will cease to exist.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 27, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
Steve went and lived with Peggy in a different timeline and then when she died he went back to the main one.  Yes they didn't show him appear at the jump point which we can argue about it being a plot hole, but having him show up again as an old man already sitting at a bench that we slowly see as Falcon talks to him is something the directors probably thought would be a stronger cinematic scene vs Steve suddenly showing up as an old man at the spot everyone expected him to appear.

Nebula shot and killed her past self but is still alive which made it very clear timetravel in this movie is basically like Dragon Ball Z.  Going back in time just causes a new timeline to be created but you can use it to help save your old one, (at least until Super).  The Ancient Ones speech about taking the stones can leave a huge ripple was very obviously talking about how if Strange doesn't have the Time stone in her timeline then Dormammu wouldn't have been stopped.  Returning the stones didn't make this timeline merge back into the main one, it just lets them run a similar course where they don't get screwed over by not having them.

Plus even if there was a way to let these timelines merge, that went out the window by the end of the film.  The Thanos from 2014 invades the main timeline where he and his whole army is then killed.  This means in the old timeline that Steve returns all the stones to, the events of Infinity War will never happen since Thanos is no more in that timeline.  Which means in that timeline half the universe is never killed only to reappear 5 years later which is a pretty major event.

Seriously, just treat the time travel in this movie as DBZ.  You have the main timeline which is like Trunks future and the new timeline which was the past that will never face the effects of Infinity War.  I would not be surprised if we get an Avengers movie that deals with the fact the timeline they visited is going to have a radical change with Thanos being gone.  Everyone should remember what Mordo said in Dr. Strange after Strange used the Time stone to repair the damage done by end of that movie and stop Dormammu.

Quote
"You still think there will be no consequences, Strange? No price to pay? We broke our rules. Just like her. The bill comes due. Always!"

Now that the Avengers used time travel to undo the events of Infinity War and created a separate timeline that will have a major branch coming up, I would not be surprised if something from this new timeline ends up coming back to effect the main one in a big way down the road.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 27, 2019, 02:36:20 PM
That is about the best I have seen Endgame explained and how time travel works in it. Wonderful post.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 27, 2019, 03:22:21 PM
Agreed. Though it's worth mentioning that the way they traveled time in Endgame is completely different than using the Time Stone. Of that's all they needed to do, Doctor Strange could have just reversed time before Thanos defeated them, or even back to before Thanos for the Soul Stone, or sent himself to Wakanda to get Vision, etc.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 03:48:13 PM
That works - but, what *exactly* causes a timeline to split?  Jumping into another point in time and making changes?

If that's the case, then wouldn't Old Man Steve jumping to the bench and interacting with everyone be enough to kick off another branch?

Would Young Steve, say, jumping and returning the time stone to 2012 New York create a new psth, one where he does and one where he doesn't (The exact thing the Ancient One feared?).

Or is it *only* making changes to *your* specific past?  That goes back to the stock example.  Going forward five years does nothing, but going back to right after you went back in order to invest in stock would?  This seems awfully plot convenient.   "If the time travel would create a paradox, then it makes a split, otherwise, no."
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 27, 2019, 03:55:11 PM
Agreed. Though it's worth mentioning that the way they traveled time in Endgame is completely different than using the Time Stone. Of that's all they needed to do, Doctor Strange could have just reversed time before Thanos defeated them, or even back to before Thanos for the Soul Stone, or sent himself to Wakanda to get Vision, etc.

Hm. In theory, I wonder if they could have stolen a Dr. Strange from shortly before Infinity War (Time Stone and all)., brought him to Endgame time, and just had him use the Time Stone to 'rewind' the destruction of the five Endgame-universe Infinity Stones, rather than doing the entire Time Heist sequences.  Now, obviously, they can't do this because they don't know Doctor Strange has that ability (the only ones to meet him before the snap were Bruce and Thor, who never saw him use time stone powers and Tony/Rocket, who never saw him use the 'rewind' feature.  And even this, Wanda saw Thanos use the 'rewind' feature to restore the mind stone, but she's gone), but for funsies, I do wonder if that would have worked and been easier.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 27, 2019, 04:54:09 PM
I would assume that Doctor Strange looked into that and it didn't work. It's actually kind of fun to think of all of the things that didn't happen in the movie, because they wouldn't have worked. Sure, it ultimately comes down to the Russo Bros. writing, but if you play along it's pretty interesting.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 27, 2019, 06:04:55 PM
In the comics, the Infinity stones from multiple worlds or timelines, only work in their parallel World.  So Doctor Strange could not use his Time Stone to reverse the destruction of the stones, because at that moment there would be 2 stones in that time line, the destroyed one and the out of place one, which the out of place one wouldn't work. 

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 27, 2019, 07:17:29 PM
the ont thing i do know, is now that we know Old Man Rogers is still alive in our time line, they can use the Banner approach to time travel (time traveling through you) to bring Young Man Rogers back.
We saw it happen with Ant-Man, they can use that same technique to Cap.
He lived his life with Peggy, he has all those memories, and now he can reverse age and be Young Man Cap for the next decade of Avengers Movies.
He don't even need his Shield... he has Mjolnir now (assuming he didn't somehow return that to Thor of the Dark World)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on April 27, 2019, 07:25:13 PM
Cap did return Mjolnir and all the infinity Stones back when he went back in time.  He also passed on the Captain America title to Falcon much like the comics did.  I think in the comics they had it so that Steve was depowered of his Super Soldier Serum and had Falcon take the mantle of Captain America and had Steve in an advisory role.  That may be what happens but the MCU have zigged when the comics zagged so we shall see.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2019, 07:41:26 PM
Thanos teleported to Earth at present time? Or did he teleport to Earth when everyone disappeared? This part was ambiguous. I figured he teleported to Earth five years later.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 27, 2019, 08:12:48 PM
I got out of Endgame about five hours ago, and I've been letting that set in.

A few things got spoiled for me due to that YouTube algorithm. Some were just obvious like "Captain Marvel fights Thanos". The only one that kind of mattered was Steve Rogers wielding Mjolnir. It was right in the video title as I was scrolling on my phone.

I fully expected this to be my favorite line:

2012 Steve Rogers: I can do this all day.
2023 Steve Rogers: Yeah, I know.

But then.... "And I. Am. Iron Man." *snap* happened. Hnnnngh....
Thanos teleported to Earth at present time? Or did he teleport to Earth when everyone disappeared? This part was ambiguous. I figured he teleported to Earth five years later.
My understanding was 2014 Nebula brought Thanos to the movie's present (2023) through the Quantum Tunnel.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on April 27, 2019, 08:21:35 PM
The absence of Thanos in that timeline must have created a parallel timeline where nobody got snapped.

Was Ocarina Ganon gets the Triforce of power timeline. Now is Link put  the sword back timeline.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Stratos on April 28, 2019, 12:23:32 AM
#LokiLives!

I still thing the main Loki faked his death, plenty of signs there. I had half figured we'd get a tease scene where he ends up somewhere else only to get dusted at the snappening.

But 2012 Loki made off with the Tessaract, so I wouldn't be surprised if he finds his way back as well. He always finds a way back.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on April 28, 2019, 09:34:58 AM

I fully expected this to be my favorite line:

2012 Steve Rogers: I can do this all day.
2023 Steve Rogers: Yeah, I know.

But then.... "And I. Am. Iron Man." *snap* happened. Hnnnngh....

Same. I really liked all the call backs to the earlier movies. The fact that Tony’s dying words were the iconic phrase from the first film was *chef’s kiss*.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 28, 2019, 01:05:03 PM
I really liked that there wasn't an Electro-esque teeth-fixing scene and Thor remained out of shape for the final battle.

When Carol met Peter, I thought they were going to do the cover of Avenging Spider-Man #9.
(https://i.imgur.com/KLfxdkJ.gif)

Also, I’m at least a little disappointed the time jump forced Cassie Lang to be recast. Abby Ryder Fortson was great in the first two Ant-Man films.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 28, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
It was a 5yr jump, why Cassie look like she went from age 7 to age 15/16.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 28, 2019, 03:43:53 PM
It was a 5yr jump, why Cassie look like she went from age 7 to age 15/16.
Oh, I know why. I even mentioned it. Emma Furhmann seems like a perfect good replacement. I was just musing about how I liked the actress who played young Cassie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 28, 2019, 07:08:13 PM
to continue a thought from another thread since it crosses into *SPOILER* discussion

I think part of Thanos' plan has to deal with the population at large taking for granted the opportunity they have at life to be more than the ungrateful consumers of all resources around the universe.

To kill off half the universe should make the other half feel grateful to have survived, and then thrive as a species to be better than what they once were.
That is something that doesn't get solved by simply doubling the resources of the universe, as that allows the already ungrateful population to just double up on consumption and continue the current destructive ways without consequence.

To speak any further requires spoiler tags, and that's too much work from my phone. But you kinda mentioned it in your post above.

Where Thanos thought that life itself should owe him thanks and gratitude's for giving them the space to thrive and be better, instead of continually being congested and stepping on each other to get ahead. His visit to the future to see his plan executed before he actually had to execute it, revealed something to him...

In Endgame, Thanos realized the error of his ways, in that he left the other half who would remember those that were gone, and instead of being thankful that they survived, they mourned those that they lost and had trouble doing much more than trying to find their way back to a normal center. Cutting the population in half was only addressing the issue he sought to fix at the surface.
His revised solution was to end all life and recreate it in his image, so that they could thrive as species and be better than what once was before, now that they had no memory of the past and therefore did not long to regain what was lost, but instead only saw what could be moving forward.

So while I agree his initial plan was flawed, I also think in his mind it made sense at the time.
and seeing how he saw the flaw in his own plan after seeing it executed... and then undone, you learn the underlying reason for him wanting to "fix" said problem in the first place.

But I've only seen the movie once (so far) so I may have some extrapolation of details in my mind that weren't in the movie. It's been in there marinating for a few days now.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 28, 2019, 07:24:22 PM
>Where Thanos thought that life itself should owe him thanks and gratitudes

Glad others picked up on this.

This is why I'm set on his plan not being to 'bring balance' or whatever he rambled about over and over.  It was about proving he was right in order to serve his own ego (No, he's not related to Quill).  He didn't care that whales were thriving on Earth.  He wanted to be right and he wanted everyone to know it.

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, but there's one line in particular, when 2014's Thanos is ranting about taking apart the entire universe, where he says something something basically 'remaking the universe in my image' (not what he says, but, that is the idea).
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on April 29, 2019, 12:12:32 AM
In the alternate thread Oohboy tries to pick apart Thanos's plan. Thanos is even aware by the end of End Game that his plan is flawed. He evolves his plan.

I completed Art School despite it not being a great plan. I've also completed may Pringle's cans. Sometimes once you pop you can stop.


http://youtu.be/TKxm6s4XJlg
idk what is up with youtube links sometimes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 29, 2019, 12:51:03 AM
Exactly.  It's like, the entire world of Titan told him it wasn't a good plan.  I'm sure they used all kinds of math, logic, and science to try to explain it to him (or maybe they just wrote him off as crazy and didn't waste their time) and he still thought he was right.  Which adds support to my theory that it isn't about the act, it's about him being right.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: oohhboy on April 29, 2019, 04:25:25 AM
Not in the text.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on April 29, 2019, 09:20:25 AM
Edit: Deleted since it was better explained in the other thread.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 29, 2019, 09:29:58 AM
You built an entire theory around an instance of inadequate writing then strawmanned and condescended your way through the rest of the discussion. The filmmakers chose to make a mass murderer their protagonist with the intention of portraying him as empathetic, something they really, truly believe they’ve succeeded in doing. You can have your fan theory. It’s fine as a theory with the caveat that nothing the filmmakers have said suggests that any of that was intentional. And that’s also fine. Most fan theories are not substantiated by the creators. Even when they are, it doesn’t really excuse flaws in the writing.

This is exhausting and we aren’t getting anywhere. I imagine Endgame discussions will be similarly exhausting. I really liked Endgame, found it to be hella entertaining. I have to watch it again before taking a stand on certain things to make sure I have certain facts straight. Right now, after sitting on it for a while, some things didn’t make much sense to me. They’re nitpicks (like the other thing) and didn’t ruin the movie for me.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 29, 2019, 03:28:48 PM
You built an entire theory around an instance of inadequate writing then strawmanned and condescended your way through the rest of the discussion. The filmmakers chose to make a mass murderer their protagonist with the intention of portraying him as empathetic, something they really, truly believe they’ve succeeded in doing. You can have your fan theory. It’s fine as a theory with the caveat that nothing the filmmakers have said suggests that any of that was intentional. And that’s also fine. Most fan theories are not substantiated by the creators. Even when they are, it doesn’t really excuse flaws in the writing.

This is exhausting and we aren’t getting anywhere. I imagine Endgame discussions will be similarly exhausting. I really liked Endgame, found it to be hella entertaining. I have to watch it again before taking a stand on certain things to make sure I have certain facts straight. Right now, after sitting on it for a while, some things didn’t make much sense to me. They’re nitpicks (like the other thing) and didn’t ruin the movie for me.

👌
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 29, 2019, 03:46:01 PM
👌
🙄
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Plugabugz on April 30, 2019, 03:42:36 AM
The single biggest achievement of the movie was getting Robert Redford back one more time. He retired last year on The Old Man and His Gun, but he was back for Endgame AND he managed to hustle a "with" credit on just three-ish lines of dialogue.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 30, 2019, 06:31:32 AM
Easy money. why not take it?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on April 30, 2019, 08:25:22 AM
If Redford was in it for the money, he wouldn’t have retired.

I was surprised to see Natalie Portman though I read her scenes were from deleted scenes.

I still haven’t seen Thor: Dark World and I didn’t think Rene Russo was amazing or anything in the original. In fact, I didn’t even know Frigga died until maybe Thor: Ragnarok. That said, her cameo was probably my favorite just because that scene was so good. Russo was great, and it was effective character building for Thor after Infinity War.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on April 30, 2019, 08:31:15 AM
The single biggest achievement of the movie was getting Robert Redford back one more time. He retired last year on The Old Man and His Gun, but he was back for Endgame AND he managed to hustle a "with" credit on just three-ish lines of dialogue.

When was The Old Man filmed?  wasn't Endgame and Infinity War filmed at the same time?

I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, but there's one line in particular, when 2014's Thanos is ranting about taking apart the entire universe, where he says something something basically 'remaking the universe in my image' (not what he says, but, that is the idea).

Rewatch from last night.  He rambles about building a new universe where no one remembers the old one, but ends with it being a "grateful" universe.  He basically wants to be worshipped like a god.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: oohhboy on April 30, 2019, 01:51:58 PM
👌
🙄
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 30, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
So the Thanos wanting to balance the universe thing is actually from the comics too. Silver Surfer #34.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 05, 2019, 12:52:09 AM
Got around to watching Endgame. The movie was somewhat a jumble, but plenty of great moments throughout. It feels satisfying to close the book on the MCU. At least, that's how it feels to me. I don't feel obligated to see upcoming MCU movies. Her are some random thoughts:

- Why didn't Coulson show up? The separation of the TV and movies still irritates me.
- I was glad Tony finally moved on with his life. And then he was dragged back in!
- Whatever happened to Lady Sif?
- Thumbs down on Professor Hulk, he seemed a little too much in the uncanny valley.
- Cap got a potty mouth after the snap
- How is Hawkeye going to explain to his family that he was murdering hundreds of people for five years?
- Black Widow sacrificing herself felt like a twist for twist's sake.
- Tilda Swinton and Rene Russo stole the show. Great performances
- So is Gamora stuck in the future? Is that how they get her back? If so, that seems lame. She wasn't on the Guardians ship at the end.
- The female Avengers coming together was a nice moment
- Both Nebulas should have died. Traitor!
- Thanos from 2014 seems much more nasty
- I loved that Captain America got to wield Thor's hammer. Avengers Assemble!
- I didn't like that Thanos' Darth Maul sword chopped up Cap's shield
- Captain America had a satisfying ending, exactly what I wanted. I'm glad he got his dance with Peggy.
- I'm bummed that Tony Stark died. He went out like a hero, but I was hoping he could have retired with his family in an alternate future
- As other have already said, the world's timeline is all screwed up now

Predictions and thoughts for the future of the MCU:

- Peter Meets Gwen Stacy and Mary Jane in this the new disjointed timeline
- Thor better be in the third Guardian's of the Galaxy movie!
- Captain Falcon (ha!) has to get juiced up somehow if he's going to be the new Captain America
- Bucky is going to be in the next Black Panther movie and become some version of the White Wolf
- Hulk will be around for cameos I'm sure

What the heck happened to the idea of Integrating the X-Men and the Fantastic Four? Part of me wishes the MCU had a bigger reset than it actually did in the end.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 05, 2019, 12:56:37 AM
Oh! Also, what's the deal with Loki escaping with the cosmic cube? Did Cap fix that too? Is Loki still alive?

What the heck, Vision is just dead? that's stupid. They should have done more with the infinity stones.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2019, 01:01:38 AM
Actually, Coulson not showing up does make sense...

Tilda Swinton did steal the show.  Wasn't expecting her to show up and it was amazing when she did.

But... from the internet rumors of the FFH trailer, you might be drug back into the MCU after this. :D
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 05, 2019, 01:16:13 AM
In regards to the Fantastic 4 and the X-Men I think the Fox deal happened too close to the release of EndGame to implement it. I think this was the culmination of the Infinity Saga and it deserved to have a nice bow on it. In regards to the X-Men I think when Thanos used the stones again the movie said that using them caused gamma radiation to be expelled out.  I am kinda expecting the upcoming Black Widow and The Eternals movie to expand on mutants in the MCU.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Stratos on May 05, 2019, 01:36:13 AM
Loki is certainly an intentional loose end, but I agree with Shyguy that these alternate timeline/reality versions of characters feel like a hollow cop-out for the MCU. Gamora and Loki had so much character development that is all lost. MCU felt much more tangible without all these copy/alt worlds and characters. Having them be alts feels much more like a bad Sy-Fi plot or the convoluted nature of the Flash/Arrowverse.

Presumably Loki's loose end leads into his D+ show.

WandaVision (still a bad show name) will probably revolve around Wanda bringing back Vision in some form.

Aren't the stones never truly gone in the comics? I recall reading that if they ever were destroyed they would reform elsewhere in the universe.

The five year jump does leave a lot of possibility for insertion of the F4 and X-Men down the road.

Some people also think there was a Namour the Submariner teaser in the reference to the underwater earthquake that was discussed between Black Widow and Okoye. The way Okoye firmly intended to leave it alone felt a bit ominous, like they knew there was something there that should be left well enough alone. Could have been Atlantis. Still think Jason Momoa should be scooped up and pulled into the MCU and this would be a hilarious way to do it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on May 05, 2019, 03:42:29 AM
The character development between Gamora and Star Lord is still in existence. But only Star Lord remembers. All that needs to happen is Mantis touch Star Lord and Gamora at the same time.

I enjoyed Aquaman....but Jason Mamoa IS Namor.

Maybe Namor should resemble Aguaman in this universe.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2019, 05:02:53 AM
The Gamora thing is brilliant.  Quill alludes to it in GotG2, when he rants about the whole Cheers/Sam/Diane will they/won't they.

Obviously, by the end of GotG2, it was a given.  Now, boom.  Reset.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 05, 2019, 08:08:27 AM
Oh! Also, what's the deal with Loki escaping with the cosmic cube? Did Cap fix that too? Is Loki still alive?

What the heck, Vision is just dead? that's stupid. They should have done more with the infinity stones.
Yes, Vision is "dead" - but, Shuri had downloaded his "being" in Wakanda (oh hey look, that's also where all the Vibranium is) before he was killed, so he will probably be recreated, just without the Mind Stone this time. This didn't happen in Endgame because Shuri was also dead for 90% of that movie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 05, 2019, 03:07:00 PM
@Shyguy

- Coulson is dead. he died at the end of season 5 of AoS
- Lady Sif was probably dusted on some random planet, she had no reason to immediately go to Earth
- I also didn't really like Mark Hulkallo, although it was humorous to see a non aggressive Hulk.
- Hawkeye will probably explain the last 5 years like he did the previous 20.... not at all.
- I wanna say Gamora got dusted, like everyone else form the past. But since they obviously and purposely didn't show her... I guess we'll have to wait and see.
- Caps ending also left him a way back in using Banner's failed attempt at Time Travel. Passing time though Cap can make him a young man again.
- Stark had a full character Arc, and RDJ got paid a kings ransom on his way out. RIP Tony.

@ BeautifulShy

The Black Widow movie has to be a prequel set sometime between Captain Marvel and Ironman.
it will probably also cover the mission that Natasha and Barton are always referencing that they worked together.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 05, 2019, 06:05:50 PM
@ BeautifulShy

The Black Widow movie has to be a prequel set sometime between Captain Marvel and Ironman.
it will probably also cover the mission that Natasha and Barton are always referencing that they worked together.


Yeah but what if Wolverine was there while he was working with Team X and Black Widow is there monitoring his mission after the establishment of Shield. Just a small part of the movie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on May 05, 2019, 06:52:34 PM
They could just give the soul stone back to the red skull and then use the Time stone to do the reverse vision thing.

You need all the infinity stones to do a massive act, 1 or 2 of them can be used for smaller things.

Also, way back in 2009 I thought when they made Dragon Ball...why do everything at once? You'll burn out the plotline and it'll be a terrible movie.

We should really credit Harry Potter for making long saga movies a thing. Before then at most movies were designed with one or two sequels, maybe a trilogy. Movies with lots of sequels would usually not care about continuity too much... like James Bond movies.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 05, 2019, 07:27:09 PM
I have no problem with Iron Man leaving the MCU, I just don't like that Tony left behind a wife and kid.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on May 06, 2019, 01:00:01 AM
Trade Spider-man for Tony. No country for old men.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 06, 2019, 10:02:34 AM
I'm fine with that. Spiderman has a very different story in these movies. Despite the good characterization, he almost feels like a different character.

- Aunt May is younger
- He has a best friend named Ned
- No OsCorp
- No Daily Bugle
- No Gwen Stacy
- Half of Mary Jane
- Ironman was his mentor
- Spider suit has a bunch of Stark technology
- Not really bothered by Uncle Ben being dead
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Adrock on May 06, 2019, 10:33:01 AM
I'm fine with that. Spiderman has a very different story in these movies. Despite the good characterization, he almost feels like a different character.
Makes the reboot worth it.

The verdict is out on Oscorp, Daily Bugle, and Gwen Stacy. Maybe Marvel/Sony just haven’t gotten to them yet. Peter had been Spider-Man for about six months by Civil War/beginning of Homecoming. They (thankfully) skipped his origin story so we don’t really know how much Peter was affected by Uncle Ben’s death other than the implication is that he’s fighting crime due to it. Still, everyone knows this side of Spider-Man’s lore. And I suppose it certainly helped to have a “replacement” (for lack of a better term) father figure in Tony Stark. If Marvel/Sony want to revisit the lost father-figure thing, they can still do it post-Endgame.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 06, 2019, 10:49:36 AM
New Spider-Man: FFH Trailer - posted in here because of Endgame Spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt9L1jCKGnE

multi-verse!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on May 06, 2019, 11:40:46 AM
I can't help but feel that's just the bad guy pulling our legs.

I'm disappointed there's no hints of the five year time gap in that trailer.  Of course, it could just be because it's a trailer.

(https://66.media.tumblr.com/69751e41852567d0f1a48588b7f09586/tumblr_pr04i2cYln1rxjb9io1_1280.pnj)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 06, 2019, 06:15:34 PM
Either way the movie looks pretty great! I have a feeling the multiverse thing is a lie too, but if it's real, then my post-credits prediction is Peter taking off his mask and the camera pans around again, but this time it's Deadpool standing behind him saying WHAT THE F---?!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 06, 2019, 08:14:09 PM
A lot of what was shown in the EndGame trailers was spot on just not spelled out before then. So I think with the multiverse now we are going to see different versions of different Marvel characters so things should be even more interesting. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 06, 2019, 09:07:29 PM
You know one thing I noticed about the new trailer and I didn't really see pointed out was that Spider-Man Noir was in the trailer and I wonder if he was pulled from the 1930s and is now in present time or if Peter just got a new suit.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 06, 2019, 10:15:27 PM
It's just Peter with a different suit. He's wearing it without the mask in one of the scenes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 06, 2019, 11:24:17 PM
That is a shame.  I kinda want things to open up in different ways.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on May 07, 2019, 05:15:50 PM
@Shyguy

- Hawkeye will probably explain the last 5 years like he did the previous 20.... not at all.

He still has to explain all his new tattoos.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 07, 2019, 06:12:04 PM
Clint honey, how's Nat been?
...I dropped her off a cliff
...In space
...While time traveling
But don't worry, I tried to kill myself instead!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2019, 09:53:08 PM
So, the Far From Home trailer had me thinking. Do you guys remember the Sony email leak? Specifically the crazy-ass plans they had before the MCU made them a deal?  I'm specifically referring to the Spider-Man vs The Amazing Spider-Man film idea.  With the multiverse in play and the MCU deal (potentially) coming to a close, this could be back in play.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 08, 2019, 09:58:29 PM
That's not happening. The multiverse is coming from Feige.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on May 08, 2019, 10:01:19 PM
That just gives Sony an excuse.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 08, 2019, 11:11:00 PM
One thing I like about this multiverse idea is we could see Hugh Jackman's Wolverine pop up in the MCU.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Stratos on May 09, 2019, 11:45:10 PM
One thing I like about this multiverse idea is we could see Hugh Jackman's Wolverine pop up in the MCU.

I know he has said he is done, but people change their mind. I'm really hoping he does at some point down the road. Would be great just to get him in Deadpool.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2019, 09:42:42 AM
I think he would come back for an MCU cameo.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on May 10, 2019, 04:39:04 PM
I was hoping he'd appear in Endgame for the final battle too.  While he did indeed say he was done with the character, he has also said he'd love to be in the MCU.  I reckon it's not unrealistic that we'd see him come in one more time for a swan song, then hand the claws to the MCU successor.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on May 10, 2019, 04:39:48 PM
With DC doing the elseworlds thing Marvel will have to jump ahead of them.

As far as Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. I hope he's as done as Robert Downey Jr.

Logan was a sendoff. I think it was a good one.

I remember Wolverine before he was associated with an actor, so I'm less attached. It's going to be hard to follow Jackman, but it can be done. If they can turn Scott Eastwood into a good actor that would be my choice.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 13, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
Potential Future MCU Spoiler ahead.... you have been warned.

https://twitter.com/rogerwardell?lang=en

This guy also correctly detailed things from Endgame months before release.
go ahead and read back....
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ShyGuy on May 13, 2019, 10:38:58 PM
Well hmm. Is this guy the janitor at the Marvel studios office or something?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: ThePerm on May 14, 2019, 01:03:12 AM
wow that guy is dead on.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: Stratos on May 14, 2019, 01:26:50 AM
Sounds like some neat potential for new ground. Hopefully they give us more of a vision for future plans for Phase 4-6. Even a tease of the next big bad would be nice.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 04, 2019, 03:42:16 PM
So um.... the post credits for Far From Home....

#1.
J. Jonah Jameson!!!!!!! Let the hate begin. LOL
Peter's life is FUCKED - how does Flash handle this confliction!? (honestly, who cares tho)
There has to be something coming up that discredits the video so that Peter gets a normal life again, but the Spider-man hate from JJJ can continue.

#2
I thought it was a little strange that Fury was so trusting of a new hero so quickly.
It only made sense later when they revealed that Fury wasn't Fury at all.

But since the Real Nick Fury stood up, and revealed that he wasn't in a Corona commercial, hell he wasn't even on Earth, where do they pick this storyline up!!? Is he forming S.W.O.R.D.!?
is the S in AoS about to stand for SWORD instead of SHIELD!? that would be pretty awesome.
but seriously, WTF is Fury at and where does that storyline pick up!?

GotG 3? CM2? something we haven't heard of yet?

I need some answers dammit!!!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (We're in the Endgame Now)
Post by: UncleBob on July 04, 2019, 04:25:57 PM
Isn't this the last season of Agents of SHIELD? ;)

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 04, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
If by "this" you mean this season, as in S6, where they've spent the last 1.5 seasons in space already, then yes, it just might be...?

#itsallconnectedagain?
S7 is Agents of SWORD
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 04, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
The first Mysterio fight was simply incredible. That's some straight up "right off the page of the comic"-type stuff. The second one was great too, especially the end when Peter grabs the gun. The J. K. Simmons reveal was so awesome too. I literally jumped out of my seat and pointed to the screen and let out an audible "YES!" when that happened. That was such a great way to set up he next movie.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 05, 2019, 01:38:16 AM
I wonder if the JK Simmons appearance indicates that we might have some crossover with the Raimi movies?  I suspect not though.  I imagine it was more of a "everyone loves JK's JJ so let's get him back".

Since Peter still has Edith I imagine he'll have something at his disposal to discredit the video.  Of course, the one bit of the video that was real was his name so there'll always be a risk that it could get out even if they do manage to patch this one.  But it was still an unexpected event regardless.

I picked the skrulls still being on earth as soon as the credits rolled to Cap Marvel so I'm pleased I was right about that.  We still very much have an opening for Secret Invasion.  But yeah, the big question is when did this exchange happen.  Have we actually had a real Nick Fury or is this the first time we've seen him?  Also, what about Maria Hill?  Where is she at?  Has she been a skrull since Avengers or did it happen afterwards.

You have to hand it to Marvel.  They were likely expecting a modest amount of their viewers to check out after the Infinity Saga but dropping some curve balls like that is one hell of a way to keep you invested.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Adrock on July 05, 2019, 07:05:49 PM
I accidentally clicked into the wrong thread. I’d blame fat fingers except I have tiny, baby hands. I regret everything.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 05, 2019, 09:04:14 PM
I accidentally clicked into the wrong thread. I’d blame fat fingers except I have tiny, baby hands. I regret everything.

Mysterio is a bad guy - he used to work for Tony Stark - using "B.A.R.F." tech to create his deceptions/illusions
The multi-verse may be a real thing, but it's a bullshit story from Mysterio in this movie used to fool everyone
Nick Fury wasn't actually Nick Fury.... it was actually Talos (the shape shifting Skrull from Capt. Marvel) - Same with the other agent... both Skrulls.
The Real Nick Fury is actually off-world creating the SWORD space station (I think)

JK Simmons is back as J. Jonah Jameson and appears on the NY Outdoor TV Billboard to out Peter Parker as Spider-man, and Spider-man as a crazed killer "hero"

and Tony is a jerk. He leaves Peter a gift, and named in a way that was way too funny.
EDITH - Even Dead, I'm The Hero.
asshole. LOL

now just be glad you clicked in early and only read about the post credits scenes. We haven't actually discussed much of the movie yet. LOL
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Adrock on July 06, 2019, 07:07:47 PM
now just be glad you clicked in early and only read about the post credits scenes. We haven't actually discussed much of the movie yet. LOL
When I saw you responded, I clicked back into this thread expecting you to make fun of me then I read the first line of your post and promptly punched the Back button. Luckily, I didn't remember the B.A.R.F. connection from Captain America: Civil War.

That said, the way Spider-Man: Far From Home connects with the MCU is one of my favorite things about it. That exposition dump scene where Quentin Beck reveals his evil plan would normally feel extremely lazy, but retconning Beck into Civil War and having Peter Billingsley reprise his role as that one Stark scientist Obadiah Stane yells at in Iron Man was just so good. At the same time, this is now the second Spider-Man villain that turned to the dark side after getting punked by Tony Stark. I'd really like them to move away from that in Spider-Man: Something Something Home Something. The mid-credits scene kind of sets that up. If they want to throw another curveball, stealth-cast Vincent D'Onofrio and have him reprise his role as Kingpin. I just can't buy into "IT'S ALL CONNECTED" until something like that happens. I know the Netflix shows are canceled. It doesn't matter.

Overall, Spider-Man: Far From Home is great. I think Zendaya's MJ is my favorite character in the Spider-Man bubble. A lot of people complained about Marvel changing Mary Jane Watson, but she kind of sucks as a character. I really like the direction Marvel/Zendaya took with MJ. They're also subverting what we expect. Jon Watts didn't even try to hide the fact that Zendaya is taller than Tom Holland which is refreshing to see in a movie. MJ freaking out while holding onto Spider-Man swinging around New York was also really great.

I also watched Spider-Man: Enter the Spider-Verse on Thursday. It's just a little bit better than Far From Home. I give it the edge for the visuals. I've never seen a CG movie with anywhere close to the same art direction. Olivia Octavius is also best-Doc Ock. Don't @ me. Semi-related: I want Hailee Steinfeld to be Gwen Stacy/Spider-Woman in the MCU. She's actually younger than Tom Holland so she's in the same age range as the rest of the kids. Make it happen, please.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Plugabugz on July 08, 2019, 01:42:35 PM
My only complaint is the geography. I live in London. The events of Thor 2 and Far From Home happened 4 miles apart. The people who live there in that universe must really hate it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 28, 2019, 05:22:36 PM
I just got back from seeing Far From Home and overall I thought the movie was solid. I liked how everything came together with Mysterio and how he was a pretty decent guy even though back in my head I knew this was Mysterio and he had to be a bad guy.  The sequences where Mysterio was messing with Peter and making him question things really got me in that type of mindset. Like what was real and it felt like a dream within a dream. 

The end credits with Fury and Hill were kinda a surprise. I am wondering how far back the switch happened with Fury and Talos. Also where is the real Hill?  Things to ponder.

I am interested in seeing how Peter is going to untangle that mid credits scene with that info being out there to the whole world.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Stratos on August 03, 2019, 02:27:29 PM
Finally got around to seeing it. Very fun film. Was tired of avoiding this thread for so long but glad I waited. JJJ being back is great. We have one more film for the MCU Spidey according to the deal with Sony, right? I'm worried about how Sony could muck it all up with their own side projects. Pretty much all of the other Marvel children have come home, so I'm hoping they find a way to permanently keep Spidey.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 03, 2019, 06:40:16 PM
They gotta convince Sony to sell Sony Pictures to Disney.
or that's gonna be some crazy negotiating for the Spider-Man contract extension talks....

Or Disney gonna have to play a little (disney/sony): yes/no yes/no yes/no no/yes no/yes Deal!/Deal! :)/wait a second... with Sony
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Stratos on August 11, 2019, 06:24:18 PM
Disney could always offer up some of the extra Fox properties in exchange if nothing else. Does Disney really need to own Simpsons or Aliens VS Predator?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: ThePerm on August 12, 2019, 05:05:18 AM
hmmm there are probably some spy agent properties from the Fox side that could be a good trade to Sony for Spider- man.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: UncleBob on August 12, 2019, 02:23:03 PM
I scrolled through the list of Sony movie properties... Spider-Man is virtually their biggest grossing one.

Maybe Disney can give them Lucasfilm/Star Wars.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 14, 2019, 07:02:25 AM
I dunno.  I don't want Disney to give up any of those Fox Properties.  Think about it the value Disney can give for Hulu and Disney+ because they have those properties.  Plus, Disney could easily find writers and directors that can build a universe and world around many of those franchises and make them compelling properties.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: nickmitch on August 14, 2019, 03:39:28 PM
Disney would have to trade virtually all of the Fox properties before Sony would even consider it.  They'd have a better chance of buying Sony Pictures outright than stealing away Spider-Man.  I think more collaboration and possible universe integration with Venom and whatever else they want to build off is their best bet.  Sony knocked it out of the park with Into the Spider-Verse, so I think Disney/Marvel could offer up more franchises for animation (X-Men and F4 come to mind).
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 14, 2019, 04:25:31 PM
That's what I was saying earlier about Disney having to buy Sony Pictures, but maybe leasing them the rights to animated movies based on Marvel properties could be a fair trade off.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: nickmitch on August 16, 2019, 07:23:53 PM
I think that's a fair trade off.  An animated MCU could be great for the big screen.  I know Disney has a cartoon for Disney XD, but I think they can keep those universes separate without too much confusion.  Plus, if Disney keeps the streaming rights for D+, then that's just more content for the platform.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: ThePerm on August 20, 2019, 01:17:59 AM
Well when Amy Pascal was running the show the price to buy Spider-man in the leaked e-mails was 6 billion. Which, is the same as what I'd figure it out to be. The approximate amount of money a good Spider-man series can make in a decade.

She had no idea what she was doing though. So, I don't know how that offer would be received now. Something of interest though is she is still a producer on the MCU Spider-man movies despite no longer being an executive at Sony.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider-Man: Respect the Hyphen)
Post by: nickmitch on August 20, 2019, 09:28:21 AM
10 year revenues is a common way of pricing a business, so that makes sense.  That number has to be through the ceiling now though.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (WandaVision - A Strange Couple)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 15, 2021, 12:15:21 PM
So title update for WandaVision

I need to rewatch the 1st episode, but I'm gonna talk about the 2nd as that's still fresh in my mind.
Did you see the watch commercial? for the "Struker"

Hydra (logo) 1000m

like it was saying it was water resistant up to 1000m. very very clever.
Commercial calling back to Wanda's past.

the copter in the bushes... in color, with the "SWORD" logo on it.

the guy in the Bee Keeper suit coming out of the sewer..... he had bees surrounding him.
that didn't make no sense. But you know who wears a suit that looks like a bee keeper suit?
A.I.M. could that have something to do with A.I.M.? were they rumored to be involved in this show?

I need to rewatch the first ep to see the little things, but I look forward to the 3rd Ep. to unveil some  of the mystery surrounding what is actually going on here.


edit: I rewatched the first episode to remember the 1st commercial.
The Stark Toast Master 2000, with the arc reactor sound and beeping noise, like a certain stark missile/bomb that didn't go off in Wanda's past  (good reason to watch Legends, as it goes through their MCU movie moments to refresh you on moments that will likely be referenced)


pre-post edit: and I also read some analysis of the first 2 episodes and lots of little things I never would have known about or noticed that were pointed out.
the most obvious of which being the manhole the "beekeeper" crawled out of was not there previous to him crawling out of it.
and easter egg in the intro for Grim Reaper
and a subtle speculation being that the colorized SWORD copter I mentioned earlier in the bushes, may have been the entry vehicle of Monica Rambeau into the fantasy world

and some more comic based speculation on who the big bad may be, and plot details, both based on comments made within the show "The devils in the details... and that's not all he's in" and "For the Children"
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 19, 2021, 04:32:56 PM
Notice how when they see the beekeeper entering the street Wanda says "No" and the whole thing rewinds. She's in control of everything even if she doesn't fully realize it is what I suspect. The beekeeper may have been an outside agent that found a way in and either she pushed him back out or pulled him fully into the fake reality. Keep an eye out for the appearance of a strange new character in the next episode to coincide with a new person being pulled into the reality.

Speaking of new people:
and a subtle speculation being that the colorized SWORD copter I mentioned earlier in the bushes, may have been the entry vehicle of Monica Rambeau into the fantasy world

Good catch. I remember a helicopter in the "real world" shown in the trailer. I wonder if the real world clips will be showing parallel story 'flashbacks' showing the sword folks trying to enter Wanda's World.


Wasn't Strucker the guy who made Wolverine, or was that Striker? Or am I mixing up characters?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 19, 2021, 10:43:07 PM
Baron Von Strucker was the Hydra guy that used the Mind Stone on Wanda and Pietro that supposedly gave them their powers.

remember the first time we see the twins in cells next to each other using their powers as a Capt America post credit scene or something.

I believe it was Striker that was involved with the Weapon X/Wolverine thing in X-Men.

And I believe you are very right that Wanda is in control... to an extent.
She created her TV Land "reality" for reasons unknown, and has the ability to alter how it plays out.

I think a question that needs to be asked is what would Vision be like if he was brought back to life w/o the Mind Stone... maybe that is the basis for what we see playing out in TV Land.
Wanda trying to get Vision back, recreate something that was lost, and doing it in what she has always thought to be the "perfect life" of the TV Land Family.

But I can't wait to see them start to sprinkle in the MCU reality in the up coming episodes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 20, 2021, 09:12:12 PM
I forgot that he was the guy who had the twins in a cage. What happened to him? Could he make a return in this show coming after Wanda's kids perhaps?

It makes me wonder what Vision would have been like if Shuri had succeeded in removing the Mind Stone from him. Maybe it was close enough that she attempts to rebuild what was damaged? It sounded like she was very close to getting there, close enough I thought they would find a way to bring him back in End Game.

There was a teaser for WandaVision planned for the end credits of End Game they axed before release, so this may have something to do with all that.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 20, 2021, 10:14:32 PM
I believe Strucker was killed in AoU.
I think he was in that base Tony raised in the beginning
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 21, 2021, 12:30:47 PM
Right, he was the "AI" in the computers (Or am I thinking of someone else from a scene in Winter Soldier)? Course, being an AI construct now means he could have been transferred or downloaded elsewhere, yes?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
No, that was Arnim Zola, the scientist that helped Red Skull in the first Capt America movie that uploaded himself into a computer and was in the bunker in The Winter Soldier.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 21, 2021, 09:58:06 PM
Whelp, my MCU knowledge seems to be getting rusty. Probably high time I re-watched some of the earlier stuff. Haven't seen AoU or Winter Soldier in a long while.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 21, 2021, 11:06:18 PM
Baron Von Strucker
(https://i.imgur.com/tWnQGwm.jpg)

Arnim Zola
(https://i.imgur.com/CDgTfUa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VpCBv4v.jpg)

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 23, 2021, 08:02:01 AM
and here is a nice analysis of WandaVision Ep1&2 and shows Von Strucker at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzkkviBrHV8&feature=emb_title

and after watching Ep3, it appears that Ep4 is where the outside is gonna be brought into the story more, considering Monica was just expelled to the outside world.

I also noticed that the Beehive guy had a SWORD symbol on his back, so it couldn't be AIM.... right?and Vision is definitely noticing that things ain't right.... 18hr pregnancy to birth kinda secured that though. And that Stork... WTF was up with that!? She kept trying to get rid of it, and it just refused..... Someone is messing with her.
I was also really hoping to see what Neighbors were too afraid to just come out and say to Vision, but I know they were also afraid of getting kicked out or worse it seems. Or maybe Agnes didn't want to ruin the fun, and and wanted to continue to let it play out as it has been?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 23, 2021, 01:38:46 PM
I imagined the neighbor's hesitancy being not so much out of fear as out of them not fully remembering. Like they have an idea of what is wrong but it is clouded by the "world" created by Wanda.

Articles online are claiming that Geraldine is Monica Rambeau as an adult now. Did I miss something in the episode to clarify this or did the casting reveal it somehow? Or are people just assuming?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on January 23, 2021, 06:22:38 PM
I think the neighbors felts something was off because she was an outsider.  If she managed to sneak into the town, then there wouldn't be a place for her, yet Wanda's powers kind of shoehorned her into the setting she's created for herself.

Articles online are claiming that Geraldine is Monica Rambeau as an adult now. Did I miss something in the episode to clarify this or did the casting reveal it somehow? Or are people just assuming?

I believe it was the casting.  I think she had been previously casted to play Monica in some future MCU thing, so her showing up here is causing people to draw the connection.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on January 23, 2021, 06:28:37 PM
and a subtle speculation being that the colorized SWORD copter I mentioned earlier in the bushes, may have been the entry vehicle of Monica Rambeau into the fantasy world

I really like this analysis.  The loud crashing noise the couple dealt with in the episode being explained by the tree was probably Wanda hoping for some simple explanation, while not being accepting that this town she's projecting over has been breached by a crashing helicopter.  She then decides that because the best her powers could do with the helicopter was turn it into a toy (that was in color), she had to adapt her world into something that wouldn't allow the toy to stand out, hence the shift to a 70s sitcom in technicolor.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 23, 2021, 07:32:15 PM
and a subtle speculation being that the colorized SWORD copter I mentioned earlier in the bushes, may have been the entry vehicle of Monica Rambeau into the fantasy world

I really like this analysis.  The loud crashing noise the couple dealt with in the episode being explained by the tree was probably Wanda hoping for some simple explanation, while not being accepting that this town she's projecting over has been breached by a crashing helicopter.  She then decides that because the best her powers could do with the helicopter was turn it into a toy (that was in color), she had to adapt her world into something that wouldn't allow the toy to stand out, hence the shift to a 70s sitcom in technicolor.

Don't forget the Blood on the hand of the blonde girl that broke the glass. that was in color too.

As for the neighbors, Agnes and the Black man both know something.
I don't know the comics that well, but speculation is that Agnes is actually Agatha Harkness... not sure who the Black man would be, but him cutting through the brick wall and then wanting to tell Vision something when he was away from Wanda, and Agnes whispering something to stop him, let's me know they are both very aware of what's going on, but for some reason have to keep playing along.

The doctor was trying to leave town, but was confused as to how hard it was to do that.... but Geraldine/Monica found out how easy it is to get (thrown) out the hard way.
Wanda almost had a Carrie moment once Ultron was mentioned. and the frame skip reset of Vision when he started to question ****, almost had me rewind because I thought something happened to my stream. LOL

We have now seen everything that the initial critics got to watch.
I think from here is were **** really gets good, but who do you think is the actual bad guy in this series?
Is Wanda creating all this on her own? Is she being manipulated by outside forces "for the children"? is there several forces at work, and all of this was Wanda's way to protect herself?

Edit:
Episode 3 breakdown anyone - from New Rockstars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65EmPiJeR08

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on January 24, 2021, 05:40:19 PM
and a subtle speculation being that the colorized SWORD copter I mentioned earlier in the bushes, may have been the entry vehicle of Monica Rambeau into the fantasy world

I really like this analysis.  The loud crashing noise the couple dealt with in the episode being explained by the tree was probably Wanda hoping for some simple explanation, while not being accepting that this town she's projecting over has been breached by a crashing helicopter.  She then decides that because the best her powers could do with the helicopter was turn it into a toy (that was in color), she had to adapt her world into something that wouldn't allow the toy to stand out, hence the shift to a 70s sitcom in technicolor.

Don't forget the Blood on the hand of the blonde girl that broke the glass. that was in color too.

As for the neighbors, Agnes and the Black man both know something.
I don't know the comics that well, but speculation is that Agnes is actually Agatha Harkness... not sure who the Black man would be, but him cutting through the brick wall and then wanting to tell Vision something when he was away from Wanda, and Agnes whispering something to stop him, let's me know they are both very aware of what's going on, but for some reason have to keep playing along.

The doctor was trying to leave town, but was confused as to how hard it was to do that.... but Geraldine/Monica found out how easy it is to get (thrown) out the hard way.
Wanda almost had a Carrie moment once Ultron was mentioned. and the frame skip reset of Vision when he started to question ****, almost had me rewind because I thought something happened to my stream. LOL

The blood is another good moment of showing Wanda's power over the town slipping.  She clearly had lost control with the radio of someone clearly trying to reach her.  Then she slips and the woman cuts her hand, something else unexpected, so more reality breaks through.

Interesting take on Agness.  I was thinking something was up with her because of the husband that's frequently referenced but never seen.  However, I'm not sure if I buy that both of them are in on whatever's going on, since they both had to be aware of the weirdness of the outsider.  They may also suspect something is wrong with the world around them.

The doctor being unable to leave town is hilarious.  There was also a moment where someone comments that no one leaves their small town, but idk if that was the same guy.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 25, 2021, 10:04:59 AM
Wandavision episode 2.  I would also like to point out that the blood color was the bright red color that is usually used for blood back then that is obviously not the color of real blood.  It was a nice touch. 

My second thought is that WandaVision really nailed the 3rd episode and really landed a fan.  I think the premise and show provide itself with that episode being both genuinely funny.  A perfect retro feeling TV show and satire, and mysterious. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 25, 2021, 12:37:12 PM
Read this set of theories online, sharing them here:

After Avengers Endgame, Wanda suffers a mental breakdown from the loss of Vision.
>She looks for a way to revive Vision without the Infinity Stones, and befriends Agatha Harkness, who mentors her with her powers.
>Through Agatha, Wanda learns of Mephisto, and despite Agatha's warnings, she contacts him
>Mephisto offers to bring Vision back and to let the couple live the life she dreamed of when she was a child watching American sitcoms. Wanda accepts
>Mephisto seals off the entire town they're inside in some kind of reality-altering field, to appear like a sitcom.
>However, Mephisto's side of the contract is that he gains possession of their children, who are massively cosmically powerful.
>Meanwhile, both the FBI and a new organisation, SWORD, investigates cosmic-tier issues like Thanos and are trying to penetrate the field
>Jimmy Woo, Kat Denning's character and Monica Rambeau are all involved here.
>Monica Rambeau (Geraldine) flies a helicopter in, but it's transformed into a toy, while she gets assimilated into the story and her memories get wiped.
>Other agents in hazmat suits enter but get transformed into beekeepers.
>As the pregnancy and raising of the children advances, so too does the era of sitcom.
>Eventually, during a Halloween episode, Vision regains his memories and tries to snap Wanda out of the program.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 25, 2021, 03:18:47 PM
If you look at the Loki trailer, there is a stained glass window with a "Devil" as the centerpiece. That could be Mephisto as well.

So I've seen a lot of the theories posted above, but didn't want to dive too deep into them as it's kinda getting ahead of the story (lots of them been around since the 1st week), but if it creates conversation, why not. I've seen other theories not mentioned above, but some are relying heavy on comic lore that I'm not familiar with, so I wasn't about to go there.

I also noticed that the beekeeper had a SWORD Logo on his back.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 25, 2021, 05:30:16 PM
I wonder if the whole "bee keeper" deal will turn out to be SWORD folks in special suits that are supposed to allow people to enter the reality relatively unaffected, but Wanda is still able to push them back out via her "rewind" ability even if the mind-altering properties are blocked.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 25, 2021, 10:41:31 PM
I believe Strucker was killed in AoU.
I think he was in that base Tony raised in the beginning

He was arrested in that opening raid. He's killed later offscreen by an Ultron goon. The report and aftermath of the murder is shown in the movie. If I recall correctly.
Whelp, my MCU knowledge seems to be getting rusty. Probably high time I re-watched some of the earlier stuff. Haven't seen AoU or Winter Soldier in a long while.

Though this is generally considered to be the "worst" of the Avengers movies it has one of the best fight scenes in the whole MCU in my opinion. That slow-mo sequence when the music ramps up is a joy to behold.

https://youtu.be/ab_XwyZsPxc?t=120

I was hoping for something like that in the Endgame final battle but it never came. (Not a complaint because it was still glorious, but still hoping.)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on January 29, 2021, 12:31:57 AM
I wonder if the whole "bee keeper" deal will turn out to be SWORD folks in special suits that are supposed to allow people to enter the reality relatively unaffected, but Wanda is still able to push them back out via her "rewind" ability even if the mind-altering properties are blocked.

I'm thinking it's like a hazmat suit or something and Wanda is projecting the bee keeper look on to it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 29, 2021, 09:34:32 AM
Yo, Agent Woo, Dr. Darcy, Monica Rambeau, the reveal of whats going on, and DEAD VISION!!!

This episode was both funny, and a bit disturbing.

The Darcy Woo combo was pretty good. Both of them delivering separately and together.
See Wanda realize her reality illusion had slipped and seeing Dead Vision for a few seconds was kinda disturbing....

Made me think of some old movie I can't remember the name or many details of, where there was a dead family and the mom was just pretending they were all still alive, as if all was normal and everyone wasn't at the dinner table as rotting corpses.... Except Vision is the only dead actor here... everyone else appears to be involuntary actors.

Black guy is John Collins... I tried to google search that in the Marvel Wiki... came up with no characters, but the same name of one of the Art Directors of WandaVision. was hoping for a clue

The Harts = Todd & Sharon Davis 
Norm = Abilash Tandem
Jones = Harold Copter (guy with think lip catepillar)
Beverly = Isabel Matsueida
Herb = John Collins
Agnes = "unidentified" (but I'm sure it's Agatha Harkness)
Geraldine = Monica Rambeau (obviously)
full pic of the Character Wall was at 18:19

Funny thing is they are asking a lot of the same questions we are, except they already know who the Bee Keeper was. I like how the rope that was tied to him turned into an old school jump rope with the plastic tubes on it.

But they don't get to see what happens behind the show censorship when Wanda... or someone... is making it time skip.
They didn't see the glass shatter in the radio scene, they didn't even catch that the radio trick worked. They probably didn't see Vision question the show before he was scene reset, they didn't see Geraldine get the boot and the scene get repaired.

Really looking forward to the next episode.
I wanna know how much Monica can remember if anything at all.
Assuming she remember everything, I want to know if she was forced to play along, or was that just a moment of clarity where she was able to break character. I wonder how she reacts once the show is played back for her to watch.

Is Wanda the creator of the show!? Or just it's "Executive Producer"!?
Has she reanimated the corpse of Vision? or is this the hand of the "devil" at work?

So many questions still need to be answered.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 29, 2021, 03:56:51 PM
I was so happy to see Darcy back. I've dearly missed her. Now we just need a "meaw meaw" from her (no idea why that would happen here but I can dream) and it'd be complete.

Also great to see that Woo has mastered his magic tricks. I did love that little detail.

And what a cracker of an opening. Wasn't expecting to see anything around that time.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on January 30, 2021, 12:52:50 AM
Aw, gawd. It's all connected!

Episode 4 was the best one so far. I'm going to need a Dr. Darcy Lewis/Agent Jimmy Woo miniseries, just solving mysteries. They play really well off each other.

My only nitpick is the show completely skips Monica grieving her mother or coming to grips with the way world is now. One can make the argument that Wandavision is not the space for this (since it's Wanda's story, not Monica's). The only other post-Endgame live-action media we have is Spider-Man: Far From Home, and it didn't go far enough in addressing just how much the world has to change again after half the population is brought back. It feels like everyone is acting like everything is fine.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MAJOR WandaVision SPOILER are in the WILD - be careful
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 30, 2021, 02:46:54 AM
:siren::siren: WARNING: There are apparently MASSIVE leaks in the form of footage from episode 6 & 7 that reveal what I'm assume it's a character amd or Plot twist we weren't expecting. :siren::siren:

Avoid the future spoilers. Please don't post them here if you happen across them, until after the episode airs.

Thank you
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 30, 2021, 10:14:11 AM
I was so happy to see Darcy back. I've dearly missed her. Now we just need a "meaw meaw" from her (no idea why that would happen here but I can dream) and it'd be complete.

Maybe she meets the Fluerken
Darcy: Ahhhh, look at the cute wittle kitty kat ::reaches out to touch it::
N.Fury: I wouldn't touch him if I were you, he's not a cat, and Goose doesn't like to be pet by strangers
Darcy: Does he not meow? what do you mean his not a cat? ::procced to make cat noises:: "meaw meaw, meaw meaw"
N.Fury: He's a Fluerken, not a cat. He may look cute and cuddly, but you don't want to get on his bad side, and certainly not on his inside.
Darcy: ::confused face::


Quote
Also great to see that Woo has mastered his magic tricks. I did love that little detail.

(https://i.insider.com/60144b23a7c0c4001991de23)


Quote
And what a cracker of an opening. Wasn't expecting to see anything around that time.

I hope to see more references to the Blip in some of the other shows as that's a very MAJOR event in the MCU. It has to have affected everyone in some way. From watching loved ones disappear, to those very loved ones coming back and realizing they've missed 5 years, and don't even remember fading to dust. And I'm sure some people came back... different.
Or maybe some people were replaced by Skrulls, and then the awkward moment where the real them blips back, and that exposes that a Skrull/Imposter has been among the ranks for the last 5 years.

and speaking of the missing 5 years, I saw some speculation that maybe Carol's haircut in Endgame was a tribute to the passing if her friend Maria Rambeau. I would expect some minor detail like that from Feige, so I believe it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on January 30, 2021, 08:15:11 PM
I hope to see more references to the Blip in some of the other shows as that's a very MAJOR event in the MCU. It has to have affected everyone in some way. From watching loved ones disappear, to those very loved ones coming back and realizing they've missed 5 years, and don't even remember fading to dust. And I'm sure some people came back... different.
What do you mean by different? Some people knew they were turning to dust so I imagine that would freak out most people. I was under the impression based on Peter Parker's dialog when he reunites with Tony Stark that everyone who was blipped, came back thinking that just happened. Monica Rambeau briefly saw herself get un-dusted then kind of didn't know what was going on because she was sleeping when The Blip® happened. It's something to explore though I'm more interested in the aftermath of Endgame from both the perspective of those who lived through the last five years and those who returned to the world having to catch up.
Quote
Or maybe some people were replaced by Skrulls, and then the awkward moment where the real them blips back, and that exposes that a Skrull/Imposter has been among the ranks for the last 5 years.
Interesting concept, not sure that's the direction Marvel takes. Skrulls need to see the person they're simulating in person to copy their DNA, recent memory etc. A Skrull would have to simulate a person before The Blip®, that person get blipped, then the Skrull just assumes that person's identity for the next five years. It could happen. Seems unnecessary though. Why would they need to impersonate someone for five years? With the world in panic, I feel like any Skrull could accomplish whatever they needed to then putz off, largely undetected. Also, I presume a bunch of Skrull got blipped too since it was supposed to be random. Any "good" Skrull probably went looking for Carol Danvers.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on January 30, 2021, 11:04:31 PM
I hope to see more references to the Blip in some of the other shows as that's a very MAJOR event in the MCU. It has to have affected everyone in some way. From watching loved ones disappear, to those very loved ones coming back and realizing they've missed 5 years, and don't even remember fading to dust. And I'm sure some people came back... different.
What do you mean by different? Some people knew they were turning to dust so I imagine that would freak out most people. I was under the impression based on Peter Parker's dialog when he reunites with Tony Stark that everyone who was blipped, came back thinking that just happened. Monica Rambeau briefly saw herself get un-dusted then kind of didn't know what was going on because she was sleeping when The Blip® happened. It's something to explore though I'm more interested in the aftermath of Endgame from both the perspective of those who lived through the last five years and those who returned to the world having to catch up.

I don't think we have a possible "Pet Cemetery" situation here, which is what I thought BnM was getting at, if not the Skrull thing.  Although, some people could have died in the chaos and got replaced by Skrulls or came back when they were blipped during a flight and. . .landed near a Skrull. I dunno if that would work though.

Speaking of Monica recovering pretty quickly, I also thought that was weird.  At first, I wondered if more time passed than I had thought, considering Wanda would need some time to set all this up, but I'm not really sure.  The people working in the hospital all kind of seemed to understand what was happening, which was a bit weird.  I didn't really believe people would be busily answering phones (as opposed to calling someone in a panic), nor do I think the one doctor would be able to calmly talk to Monica about what happened.

The Darcy Woo combo was pretty good. Both of them delivering separately and together.

I'm shipping them so hard.

Episode 4 was the best one so far. I'm going to need a Dr. Darcy Lewis/Agent Jimmy Woo miniseries, just solving mysteries. They play really well off each other.

Same. That chemistry is too good to pass up.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on January 31, 2021, 12:42:05 AM
Felt like they were just making medical staff a bit more bad-ass since they regularly deal with wild incidents on the fly, but my wife is a nurse so I may be reading too much into that.

It was only three weeks since the un-blip if I caught the dialogue correctly. It does look like we'll be gleaning more of the side effects from the blip as we get more shows, though I suspect it won't take center stage because of just how truly messy and rough the situation is. Feels a lot like a narrative minefield.

It actually gets me wondering if they won't eventually try to completely undo the effect in the future. Maybe a sort of way to do an MCU 'reboot' with totally new actors an such if things just get too messy, maybe make it from an alternate multiverse to explain it away to a point. The MCU is already a deeply nuanced universe and I question how far we will be able to go before things get too deep and too heavy to carry on as-is.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2021, 08:37:48 AM
When I said "different", I meant, we know everyone came back safely, but did they all come back completely same? The Infinity Stones may be infinitely powerful, but life is complex. Reassembling everyone back perfectly all at the same time seems like a complicated task.
I just think that those coming from the Blip may have some side effects that will be the excuse/cause for something else in the future. Not necessarily mutants or increased potential for an "Xgene" anything, but who knows. I'm still pretty sure we get the opposite of "No More Mutants" from Wanda at some point in the near future.  (The "different' thing is just a random thought that may not ever be a thing, just overthinking)

edit2: extra theorizing... just hear me out: re: coming back "different" i.e. the Snap(s) causing change
(What if Mutants were already a thing, but extremely rare and kept a secret from the public for the most part <outside of myths that people obviously just thought of as "stories">. X-gene being not too common, just extremely rare to have an active "x-gene", Wanda and Pietro being two of it's possessors, had the genes altered with the radiation/manipulation from the Mind Stone, which unlocked their powers.
seeing in ep4 them talking about radiation, and science, and knowing that all things in the MCU are related, such as Magic just being science we don't understand yet. what if the use of the stones, the release of a "magic cosmic radiation" across the universe, and the unsnappening, a second release of "magic cosmic radiation", further altering the existing X-genes in the the snapped, and those left behind, causing the more rapid appearance of Mutants across the universe. This sets up Wanda for a "More Mutants" call out and activating the x-genes on earth, starting a boom of mutants emerging out of the wood works in the MCU creating a public safety/discrimination and human rights crisis)


As for the Skrull situation, I figured that since the Skrulls have been around already impersonating people covertly, in the chaos, they may have seen opportunity to take over important/powerful figures long term w/o need for worry of detection, because they witnessed that person turn to dust.
For instance, a Skrull may have infiltrated the White House and been an aide to the President. Possibly even impersonating the President himself to gain access to certain areas and info. Maybe the President got dusted, in his first first year of his first term, and the Skrull took over full-time, even earning a 2nd term..... only to have the real President return, and all of a sudden we have a National Security situation at the White House as the President is in 2 places at the same time, or even face to face, or on TV at a press conference, or whatever. Just thought it could make for an interesting situation.

But back to the actual show itself....
we've had 4x 30 minute episodes so far, for a total of 2hrs of content
we've been led to believe there are only 9 episodes for a total of 6hrs of content
How does the rest of this play out?

ep5 = 30m (80's episode)
ep6 = 30m (90's)
ep7 = 60m (2000's and Outside the bubble action)
ep8 = 60m (outside the bubble)
ep9 = 60m (finale)

or maybe the next 3eps are all 40 minutes w/ some some in & out the bubble action
and the last 2 are 60m each?

edit:
Aw, gawd. It's all connected!

Episode 4 was the best one so far. I'm going to need a Dr. Darcy Lewis/Agent Jimmy Woo miniseries, just solving mysteries. They play really well off each other.

(https://i.imgur.com/nXFbd66.png)

Woo & Darcy homage to a Mulder and Scully in Marvel's "X"-Files might make for an excellent ongoing D+ series. Not sure where they take it, but it could be fun.

X-Files, with the sci-fi of Fringe (and Dr Selvig guest appearances), but the MCU connectivity of AoS.
I think I really really want this now.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 31, 2021, 09:17:01 PM
BnM:  I like your assessment of the Mindstone unlocking a mutant X gene that may be in people but without some sort of outside force activating it it does nothing.  This could then lead to a massive X-gene activation with the Blip, and that would be very cool.  We are first seeing it activated with Scarlet Witch, but it could be happening other places at the same time.  Or you know, we could get the MORE Mutants element. From Scarlet Witch.  Maybe we have an accidental magic spell from Scarlet Witch.

Person:  What are you sort of freak?  A mutant, a monster?  You need to stop this.  You are hurting everyone.

Scarlet Witch in grief and anger:  A mutant?  If I am a freak, a monster...maybe we need more mutants!

We are already seeing that she is accidentally doing her chaos magic.  What would be pretty crazy is if they explain that her magic actually pulled character from an alternative universe, leaving that universe void of heroes and mutants.  That would be a fun thing to play around with, with Doctor Strange and Wanda together in his movie. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 31, 2021, 09:33:25 PM
Remember Wanda's "No More Mutants" moment?

https://i.imgur.com/FbKBL0d.jpg

I'm thinking she does the opposite and that starts the Mutant revolution since the Snappening primed the X-genes for unlocking with all that "magical cosmic radiation" being released.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 05, 2021, 03:44:36 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am so angry and disappointed with the reveal at the end of the latest episode. Since this is a spoiler thread I'm just dropping it out there.

WHY THE HELL DID THEY HAVE TO BRING EVAN PETERS INSTEAD OF THE PROPER AARON TAYLOR JOHNSON????????

I mean, it's intriguing as hell and the implication are huge. I just didn't think his Quicksilver was interesting at all and much preferred Johnson's iteration. Talk about an emotional roller coaster. I was bouncing on my couch of excitement before his face was revealed. Then everything just crashed.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 05, 2021, 04:09:37 AM
Man, I shouldn't have looked into who the actors were...the cameo isn't a surprise at all...but the actors definitely are.  And it is a pretty crazy ride.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 05, 2021, 06:04:57 AM
I love how she didn't recognize him AT ALL. LOL
She was just as confused as the rest of us.

Darcy "She recast Pietro!!!?" LMAO

that would've been such a huge shock had it not already been spoiled through casting speculation I had read weeks ago, but I still wasn't quite sure who it was till they showed his face.

I wonder if Peters sticks around or Taylor at some point makes a reappearance as Pietro before it's all over.

and as for the set for the 80's, that was Family Ties, right?
(edit: yes it was Family Ties - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ip1szfz9nZ8
and Growing Pains too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te2iIdrm_tk)


Oh, and the Lagos commercial. Can someone remind me of what Lagos was?
(edit: on rewatch, Lagos was the opening to Civil War, bomb from Crossbones Wanda tried to get rid of and blew up that building causing an international incident. They went over it in the Wanda briefing along with Wanda vs Thanos Power scale discussion.)

and Wanda stating that "you think I'm in control of all of this..." "I don't even know how all this started"

and then going back to the Loki trailer.... hmmmm Maybe someone set the environment, and Wanda is just in charge of maintaining it?  In other words, Westview is a playground made for Wanda, but Wanda didn't make the playground.

but anyway, something larger is definitely at play here.
remember it was said "The Devil's in the details." and "that's not the only place he is...."
(https://thedirect.s3.amazonaws.com/media/photos/trailes1.jpg)


"Who's the Popscicle!?"
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 05, 2021, 10:18:56 AM
It seems like the story beats Agnes is trying to trick Wanda into doing something, especially because Wanda's control seems to be unraveling and they need her to do something before it happens.

My guess is they want her to bring someone back to life...who I don't know.  And why I don't know.  But there are a bunch of great puzzle pieces in this episode. 

Wanda can freely enter and leave her illusion and she knows it isn't real.
Sword had been experimenting on Vision trying to understand the tech.
Agnes is somewhat free of Wanda's mind control and also seems to be manipulating Wanda.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 05, 2021, 11:45:30 AM
The kids are also not under Wanda's control either.

And I think Agnes is the antogonist to Wanda steering her to make the "illusion" stay immersive and on track towards something.
And I also think they want to trick Wanda into resurrecting someone/thing, as something much larger is at play.

It seems like Wanda made some sort of deal (w/ the Devil?) to get where she's at now, but may not be quite aware of the nature of the repayment needed for services rendered.

The next 4 episodes are likely to be pretty crazy.
Ep6 is the 90's episode, so we should be getting some Full House/Family Matters vibe and it's also the Halloween episode.

Maybe there will some "kids" in the neighborhood finally, now that Vision called it out.
I mean this is all "For the Children" afterall.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 05, 2021, 06:23:51 PM
The kids are also not under Wanda's control either.

And I think Agnes is the antogonist to Wanda steering her to make the "illusion" stay immersive and on track towards something.
And I also think they want to trick Wanda into resurrecting someone/thing, as something much larger is at play.

It seems like Wanda made some sort of deal (w/ the Devil?) to get where she's at now, but may not be quite aware of the nature of the repayment needed for services rendered.

The next 4 episodes are likely to be pretty crazy.
Ep6 is the 90's episode, so we should be getting some Full House/Family Matters vibe and it's also the Halloween episode.

Maybe there will some "kids" in the neighborhood finally, now that Vision called it out.
I mean this is all "For the Children" afterall.

I think you are going to get some Married with Children or Rosanne vibes from the 90s episode because things are falling apart.  Show some family fights and such.  Sure overall may be Full House but I think it is going to sidelined with some domestic fighting....which is definitely Rosanne.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 05, 2021, 09:19:24 PM
Ooooh, Roseanne, with Agnes coming in like Jackie
general choas around the house.
I like the sound of that.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on February 05, 2021, 09:40:19 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am so angry and disappointed with the reveal at the end of the latest episode. Since this is a spoiler thread I'm just dropping it out there.

WHY THE HELL DID THEY HAVE TO BRING EVAN PETERS INSTEAD OF THE PROPER AARON TAYLOR JOHNSON????????

I mean, it's intriguing as hell and the implication are huge. I just didn't think his Quicksilver was interesting at all and much preferred Johnson's iteration. Talk about an emotional roller coaster. I was bouncing on my couch of excitement before his face was revealed. Then everything just crashed.
The cameo is too meta to be a real recast so I don’t think Marvel is replacing Aaron Taylor Johnson. Now, I expect him to show up. Contextually, Wanda is losing control of Westview and has been for a couple episodes now. Evan Peters showing up as Quicksilver is a really clever way of showing that loss of control advancing. He’s Pietro-but-not-Pietro. It’s a nice Easter Egg for anyone who’s familiar with the X-Men universe, but the audience doesn’t really need to know Evan Peters was Quicksilver in those movies. The important bit is there’s something off about this Pietro. Vision has no idea who he is; Wanda seemed confused at first then just accepts that her brother is a completely different person.

Marvel could have cast anyone to get that point across, but I’m glad it went this direction. I loved the cameo.

I spoiled myself by looking up the cast list. I saw Kat Dennings and John Krasinski returning. I remember seeing Evan Peters on there and thinking nothing of it because he didn’t have a role next to his name. This wouldn’t be the first time an actor crossed over. Peter Dinklage was Bolivar Trask in Days of Future Past and Eitri in Infinity War.

Anyway...

I’ve been thinking about the Infinity Stones recently. In Endgame, could the Avengers have used the other timelines’ Infinity Stones to bring back their own? Not that they’d want to, but could they have done so? Also, Thanos “destroyed” the stones (“reduced to atoms”), but they still technically exist in the one timeline the Avenger’s beat him. I wonder if Wanda is so powerful she can put the Mind Stone back together to bring back Vision. I kind of like the perma-death there.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 05, 2021, 11:58:57 PM
Wondering if we’re gonna get a Modern Family/Big Bang Theory parody at some point.

I loved the shock at the end. Wanda is supposed to feature heavily in Multiverse of Madness, and this is the first time we’re getting a multiverse tie *and* a FOX X-Men tie in. Very exciting stuff.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 06, 2021, 01:02:38 AM
I thankfully was shielded from the spoiler other than "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I am so angry and disappointed with the reveal at the end of the latest episode. Since this is a spoiler thread I'm just dropping it out there."

I forgot it was MCU day and opened the thread and saw that and closed everything.

So I new there was a big reveal. The episode was obviously leading you to think Pietro and...whelp, it was A Pietro.

I never saw the X-Men films he was in but had enough recollection of promos for that film to figure it was him. This might lead us right into the Multiverse of Madness. They did say it was nearly confirmed that we would get a scene in that film where the FoX-Men would cameo.

I'm wondering how different Vision is and how much of his personality was preserved/brought back. Wanda mentions how he is behaving in ways he never had in the past and I don't think that is all her gaslighting him or him having a nervous breakdown of sorts from the fake reality. Shuri was pretty close to disconnecting the stone from Vision in Infinity War so I suspect a lot if still there, but he may experience memory loss or personality changes in the process.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on February 06, 2021, 01:08:21 AM
Evan Peters was a better quicksilver than ATJ

Love this scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9GFyZ5LREQ

also
(https://jlongroadmedia.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/screen-capture.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWSlUpEvijI
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 06, 2021, 03:05:27 AM
Evan Peters was a better quicksilver than ATJ

Each to their own of course.

I just thought they made made the character nothing but a joke in X-Men. Don't get me wrong, I found them amusing - but that's all it was. Just someone they whipped out at an appropriate moment for a funny scene then he never did anything else with him.

Johnson's rendition was more of a real character than Peters', despite being in several more movies.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 06, 2021, 08:06:29 AM
You know, I have been thinking about his episode and I think they are trying to teach us about Wanda's powers as we go on.  Each episode has revealed something about what is happening and what she is doing.

1) We learn she has somehow created a virtual world that acts like a TV series.
2) We learn she can change events that happen in the episode.
3) We learn she can kick people out of the episode and that some people are aware they are trapped in this world.
4) Outside World breather where we verify it is Wanda's abilities
5) We learn that her telepathy kinda covers the real people's personality but it still lets some of it leak out. (That is my way of describing it.  We learn she can leave this world whenever she wants too.

In the 5th episode we have a lot of talk about death and she reveals she can't just bring someone back to life.  Agnes seems surprised and tries to push her to do this, but she insists she can't.  My theory is she isn't fully in control of her powers, that her powers are leaking out of her emotions, which makes her more dangerous.  I think she was missing her brother so much that when she couldn't bring him back to life because that isn't a power she contains...she pulled another Piettro out of another reality.  This is interesting because her powers could potentially open holes in the multiverse...and perhaps this is where Doctor Strange is heading...
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 06, 2021, 07:35:04 PM
Agnes is by far the most suspicious character now.  The encouragement of resurrecting the dog, the "Do you wanna take it from the top?", and Wanda using her powers right in front of her.  The show keeps pointing to her as something.  Perhaps the "she" that Norm was referring to wasn't Wanda?

Speaking of that scene, remember how in Infinity War, when ever Thanos used a stone, that stone's color showed up to represent the power of the stone?  Well, Vision used his powers on Norm in that scene with his fingers turning yellow, the color of the mind stone.  But the stone is gone, and we've seen Vision without it.  So, what gives?  Also, he did all that without Wanda knowing, so Wanda isn't puppetting him, so how is he functioning with his powers, but without the stone?

Anyway, I'm interested to see if Vision tries to reach the outside world since he seems to know something's up with the town and a message got in via email.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on February 06, 2021, 10:15:06 PM
Agnes always wears a grim reaper pendent with two twin figures on it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on February 06, 2021, 10:28:50 PM
>Perhaps the "she" that Norm was referring to wasn't Wanda?

I feel like this is a given.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 08, 2021, 11:55:09 AM
But I believe Monica stated it was Wanda in her head.
and Vision directly called her out on it.

Also i just had a thought regarding the attempt to get Wanda to resurrect the dog.
Once Wanda stated she couldn't do that, they buried the dog in the back yard.
I believe the flow of emotion that may have led to the kids crying and Wanda eventually attempting to resurrect the dog, was interrupted by an assassination attempt from the outside.

Since Wanda had to break from the show for the first time, the "Producer(s)" had to figure out how to not only get Wanda to get back in the show, but also push that feeling to need to bring back the dead. So to kill two birds w/ 1 stone, they bring in the "Long lost brother" who's not really her brother as she remembers hom, but she has to pretend as much, just so that Vision won't be freaked out.
Eventually this will make her miss her actual brother even more, and she will forcefully attempt to turn this "fake" Pietro back into the real Pietro, therefore completing whatever task they were trying to force out of her (resurrecting the dead.... for whatever means to an end they are up to).

(edit: just replayed the episode and the assassination attempt came before they found out the dog was dead, but my point still stands on the cameo being another attempt to get her to do the deed of necromancy)
also on a the rewatch, Wanda looked at Pietro like it was one of those dreams where nothing is familiar, yet you know how familiar it is at the exact same time. Where a location may not look familiar, but you somehow in your dream recognize it as "home", and how someone may not look like anyone you know, but you recognize them to be a specific person you know. Once he called himself out as "brother", she instantly knew this stranger she was looking at had to be her brother.
I'm theorizing she tries to bring her actual brother back as she tries to regain control over this "reality" that was created for her.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 08, 2021, 01:31:20 PM
I think whoever saw Wanda slipping noticed her sadness around her brother.  Since that person/entity couldn't bring her actual brother, they slipped through the multiverse to pull in another Pietro.

But I believe Monica stated it was Wanda in her head.
and Vision directly called her out on it.

Monica says, "It's all Wanda" and the rest of Wanda's actions seemed designed to lead the audience to think that she's in control.  She ejects Monica, repairs the walls, rewinds scenes, etc to suggest that she can manipulate this sandbox she's in.  Though the most recent episode pulls back on that quite a bit by having her explicitly state that she's not in control of every single person; although, she could've just been lying to Vision who was on to her at that point.

Anyway, my working theory now is that Agnes might be trying to resurrect the Infinity Stones.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on February 08, 2021, 02:18:21 PM
I'm mostly wondering if this Pietro will explicitly be the DoFP one or just a "generic Pietro from another universe".  Marvel picked that actor for a reason, but is it a part of the misdirect, a wink and a nod fanservice, or will this explicitly the first tie in with the FoX-Men?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 09, 2021, 01:50:59 AM
Anyway, my working theory now is that Agnes might be trying to resurrect the Infinity Stones. Or at least one Stone...that is interesting, because Vision's Brain was the Mind Stone.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 09, 2021, 02:30:01 AM
Anyway, my working theory now is that Agnes might be trying to resurrect the Infinity Stones. Or at least one Stone...that is interesting, because Vision's Brain was the Mind Stone.

So the idea is truly resurrecting Vision (as opposed to reanimating him like he currently is) and restoring the mind stone as well for her to take? We already know that the stones aren't gone-gone since they could go to another timeline and take borrow those ones. Having the occasional threat of their return would be a way to bring back some major threats of the past. Though I could imagine it getting old if it becomes a too-often recurring plot.

I thought the stones could reform themselves since they are products of the natural universe? The atoms would just reassemble overtime somewhere randomly? Maybe Wanda is actually reassembling the stone(s) and not realizing it by altering matter of the universe?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 09, 2021, 11:00:44 AM
*Personally I hope we never get another Infinity Stones storyline.  But I like the idea of Vision being resurrected as a living Infinity Stone.  But I also don't want Vision to be resurrected because Marvel hasn't had a meaningful death until End Game.  And No Carson wasn't a meaningful death.  And no I don't believe Agents of Shield and his resurrection is Canon. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on February 10, 2021, 01:22:23 AM
Killmonger?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 10, 2021, 02:05:02 AM
I'm assuming he meant hero death by that statement.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 12, 2021, 04:51:13 AM
They are literally asking all the questions we are in the actual show.
Pietro directly looking for answers and giving some at the same time. (he IS NOT FoX-Men Pietro, he just looks like him - and I would love to know why they didn't get ATJ to reprise, or maybe she fixes his look after dealing with her trauma issues? but the "Kick-Ass" reference (https://i.imgur.com/QBOEwoy.jpeg) was a nice touch. lol)

Wanda is controlling the environment, yet she is NOT in control of Pietro or how he got there...
He stated that he heard her call to him, he's aware he is dead, but he came to her anyway. He thinks it's her doing that he doesn't look the same. He's totally aware of EVERYTHING going on.

Darcy is now in Westview, but so is the majority of SWORD that was on site (SWORD soldiers became Clowns at a circus :rofl;)

I'm pretty sure w/o looking anything up, the intro was Malcom in the Middle? house was Roseanne inspired, but kids talking to the camera was MitM as well?

and it seems like another potentially important character may be introduced next ep? The Aerospace Engineer that is gonna help Monica get back into Westview. Who could it be? lots of speculation out there, but I don't believe it leaks... assuming it's even someone important (aka a known character/hero).

but I also gotta LOL at the "Are you Old Red Riding Hood!?" comment.
"No, I'm a Sokovian Fortune Teller" to explain the classic Wanda Look.

and Vision thinking his costume is a Luchador LMAO

and if we getting 6 hours of show (including the credits?), at worst, we still got almost 2.5hrs left in the next 3 episodes (48.5m each ep). w/o the credits... we must be getting 3 feature length "TV Movies" in the next 3 episodes (roughly 3.6hrs over 3 eps or 3x 1hr 12m eps).

I'm leaning into thinking that "6hrs" is including all the credits, or there are more than 9 episodes.


edit: the movie theater behind Wanda has The Incredibles (2004) and The Parent Trap (1998?) as playing.
Was there another Parent Trap remake in the 2000's I'm not thinking of?
edit2: based on the shows referenced in the beginning, I was confused on if this was a 90's or 00's episode... I guess I'll have to settle for a "why not both" answer?

(https://preview.redd.it/1wt1j132d0h61.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=4db1e850b518f5e5452dbfc5a000bcb04c339bf5)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 12, 2021, 06:51:56 AM
I think there was also some light Gilmore Girls influence too - the park where the party was happening with the maze. Have the gazebo there right in the middle.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 12, 2021, 12:17:44 PM
Man, I didn't even get into what Hayward is up to. Darcy was digging into it.
He's got some sort of agenda he's trying to cover up. (he was also trying to cover up those tears after getting roasted by Darcy - and on Wendy's #nationalroastday too LOL)

And Monica getting her DNA overwritten by passing through the barrier multiple times. And then she's trying to get back in, but missed her free ticket for entrance to the show. She gonna have full blown powers by the end this. Spectrum on the way. To think that Wanda inadvertently has the power to create other super powered beings through manipulation.

her kids displayed powers for the first time. Speed and Wiccan coming along nicely.
and the speed boost is definitely the same visual effect that was in AoU.

and Pietro calling out Wanda for everything that going on, from her power boost "far from reading thoughts and giving nightmares' or something like that, to controlling most everyone and everything that's going on, including bringing back the "dead".
- Are we all thinking that there may be more to Pietro that we think? Like it may not actually be he brother?
he's recalling MCU stuff, but looking like FoX QS, and probing for answers while purposely pushing her buttons.
He's up to something as well. (edit: Pietro knows Vision is dead, and no one told him... Pietro died man years before Vision died, so he is definitely not what he seems, and is certainly poking and prodding Wanda on purpose)

Vision literally being torn apart trying to escape, forcing Wanda to expand the barrier to bring him back inside, since she didn't know exactly where he was at to go retrieve him. I have no idea how he is going to react that once he comes to. and the people frozen or glitching on the outer boundaries of town...

and let's talk about that commercial.... what was it? YoMagic, what were they parodying? somethinglike gushers fruit snacks but in a yogurt cup. Who wants to point out the deeper meaning behind the trauma in Wanda's life for this one?
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/756541952526254163/809741006773288980/image0.jpg)

and I need these shows to be another 10 minutes longer... and then just another 10 minutes longer than that....
Friday just started, and next Friday is already so far away. LOL
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on February 12, 2021, 04:54:30 PM
When the kid's age up I bet I know whose going to play the older quicksilver kid.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 12, 2021, 07:28:44 PM
I think the commercials are the clues.  So Yo-magic is obviously a yogurt commercial.  But, now the hint is
"Snacking on Your-Magic"
Yo-magic.

So my theory is whoever is the villain doesn't have control of Wanda or the world, but is consuming the magic and power of Wanda...I am sure this magic she is creating is leaking magic as well.  Or it could be her grief the villain is feeding off of? 

So is there a villain in the MCU that consumes magic or power, (Like DC's Parasite?) Or one that feeds on emotions?  That is my current bet...Perhaps WandaVision ends with the Villain getting enough power to break free of a prison or break into our world?  Since the rumors of Doctor Strange is that the villain is Nightmare I wonder what his power set is?

EDIT:  Nightmare is a nigh-omnipotent, nigh-omniscient and nigh-omnipresent entity who rules the Dream Dimension. He also has the ability to draw power from the psychic energies of the subconscious minds of dreaming beings.

Hmmm...seems like this could be the direction they go.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 13, 2021, 06:03:42 AM
So someone or some object (tied to a "demon" from another dimension maybe), gave Wanda some kind of power boost (the yogurt Yo-Magic), knowing she was going to use it for completely selfish reasons (because she's the lonely one on the island).
But the more she uses it, the more power gets siphoned, using her like a battery to power some transition to this realm/reality.

Much like the Mindless Ones siphoning enough energy from the Dark dimension to summon Dormamu situation from Doctor Strange, but the power siphon is in reverse.

Interesting theory. I like it.

Also thought this was funny
(https://i.redd.it/lmol24whj0h61.png)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 13, 2021, 06:02:19 PM
My hot take during the episode was that FoX-Men-looking Pietro is Mephisto/the big bad for the show posing as Wanda's brother to try and keep things moving where they are supposed to be. And I do still think that Agnes is part of the deal as well. Notice that act with Agnes freaking out in front of Vision was the thing that drove him to cross the border and forced Wanda to expand the reality. Their goal is to keep goading Wanda into expanding her reality altering hex until it is as large as they want it to be (Large enough to open a portal? Large enough to become it's own kingdom/country/power source? Take over and rewrite the world?)

Alternately my post-episode hot take: the Director (Hayward? Hayden?) is Mephisto and purposely goading Wanda to either get Vision back or get her to turn him into a living Infinity Stone.

Both takes could turn out to be sort of right. I'm glad the episodes are getting longer, because they leave us wanting way more and its going to be hard to keep all of the elements of the show with the shorter runtimes. It already felt like they weren't leaning as heavily on the "TV Era Tropes" this time as it was seemingly quickly forgotten once things started going bonkers. Makes me wonder how much of the Tropes we'll continue to see in the final episodes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 13, 2021, 06:05:43 PM
So, the last episode threw the Agnes theory out the window. But now I'm back to wondering if it isn't just Wanda doing all this herself ala "House of M" on a smaller scale.  She has to be projecting personalities on to Pietro and Vision.  And I think Pietro talking asking Wanda how she did it is really her trying to figure out how everything is happening.  She blatantly asks him about the ethics of the situation, possibly because she's feeling guilty about what she's doing.  His "Your dead husband can't die again" comment almost sounds like the voice of reason next to someone who's worried about the whereabouts of a corpse.  I think this also explains how Pietro has MCU memories and a FoX-Men body; they're her memories but she's possibly ripped a body through the multiverse.  Speaking of Vision, I think his actions are Wanda's subscious feelings about wanting to get back to reality.  He knows something is amiss, that the world around him is fake, but she herself wants to pretend that it's real, so that it can be real.

So now I'm thinking that Wanda's powers are truly just out of control.  Although, I can't help but think maybe she got a power boost from somewhere.  She says she can't remember how all this started which falls in line with her powers going out of control, and Pietro making that point about how her powers have upgraded from nightmares to this makes me think she isn't sure how she got so strong.  But if you backtrack to how much stronger she got from AoU to Endgame, it's already a pretty big power boost and maybe what's happening now is a natural progression.  However, people keep asking her if she wants anything changed or "Isn't this what you wanted?" to her either ignoring the question or just looking confused.  Again, that could be either her powers working without her realizing or outside intervention.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 13, 2021, 06:12:51 PM
However, people keep asking her if she wants anything changed or "Isn't this what you wanted?" to her either ignoring the question or just looking confused. Again, that could be either her powers working without her realizing or outside intervention.

It could be a monkey's paw-type situation where she got her "wish" granted by Mephisto/some-other-power and so when they ask "Isn't this what you wanted?" its a subtle reminder from her 'benefactor' that she did ask for this and these are the consequences for her actions and decisions.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 13, 2021, 06:15:03 PM
I also think Hayward's plan is to use Wanda's powers to bring back Vision.  It's been shown that Wanda physically alters whatever is inside the Hex to be what she wants it to be.  Monica Rambeau's 70s attire turning being made of kevlar (or w/e) because that's what she wore when she went in makes me think Hayward's working theory is that Wanda can turn Vision's vibranium into a functioning Infinity Stone.  The way he watched as Vision stood outside the Hex as he got pulled back in made me think he was trying to observe whether or not Wanda actually brought him back successfully.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 13, 2021, 06:21:43 PM
However, people keep asking her if she wants anything changed or "Isn't this what you wanted?" to her either ignoring the question or just looking confused. Again, that could be either her powers working without her realizing or outside intervention.

It could be a monkey's paw-type situation where she got her "wish" granted by Mephisto/some-other-power and so when they ask "Isn't this what you wanted?" its a subtle reminder from her 'benefactor' that she did ask for this and these are the consequences for her actions and decisions.

That's what I was thinking.  Like Agnes and Herb seem to know what's going on and act like they're working for her (or someone else, but to her benefit).

But Pietro does say he remembers being shot in the street and then hearing Wanda call to him, which could point to it all being Wanda.  Although again she does pretty much wish for him to be there, so someone else could be granting these wishes.  I'm pretty back and forth on this, lol.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 14, 2021, 07:56:57 AM
The last episode has also made Agnes more sympathatic like maybe she isn't the big bad...I think someone else is pulling the strings...like Wanda is the puppet master, but also herself just a puppet.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 15, 2021, 04:35:01 PM
"The devils's in the details....."

Details found in the music by a reddit user:
https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/lj694k/something_i_noticed_about_all_the_wandavision/

not sure it means anything, but since everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is looking for clues as to what is going in in WandaVision and who the "Big Bad" is, maybe it is something?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 15, 2021, 08:22:17 PM
I've been thinking about this more and more, and I'm increasingly convinced it's all Wanda.  Wanda is supposed to appear in Multiverse of Madness and Spider-Man: Do the Homie.  Both of those are about the multiverse, and I'm guessing goes wrong leading to a Spider-verse thing and then Dr. Strange has to fix it in his movie.  But the question is what happened and how.  But I think whatever happens to the multiverse already happened.

Looking at Pietro, it's weird that the Fox version showed up and not the MCU one.  When Wanda accidentally sees his real body, much like dead vision, he's got the bullets holes to match MCU Pietro.  But if AoU happened in 2015 and it's at least 2024 after Endgame, that body would been decayed pretty bad.  It's had at least 5 years to decay since the timeskip, but probably upwards to 9.  So, when she's grieving for Pietro, her powers subconsciously reach out to find a body, but her earth only has a rotten corpse.  So, she pulls through the multiverse to find a fresh one and accidentally rips a hole in it.  Damaging the fabric of the multiverse may not have any  major consequences now, but it could down the road especially if Wanda does something similar.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on February 16, 2021, 12:16:26 AM
Youtuber Emergency Awesome thinks that both Vision and Pietro/Quicksilver are golems animated by Wanda's memories of them, hence why Pietro only seems to recall shared memories and Vision only remembers what Wanda wants him to remember and that all the multiverse stuff is a red herring for now. He seems more confident of the 'obviousness' of that answer than I am though.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 18, 2021, 11:47:47 AM
Sneak peek at WandaVision ep 7

https://twitter.com/wandavision/status/1362401482277064705?s=20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAk32wCK18g

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 19, 2021, 12:36:36 AM
and let's talk about that commercial.... what was it? YoMagic, what were they parodying? somethinglike gushers fruit snacks but in a yogurt cup. Who wants to point out the deeper meaning behind the trauma in Wanda's life for this one?
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/756541952526254163/809741006773288980/image0.jpg)

Ok, so I think I've settled on my interpretation of that commercial.  Wanda is both the boy and the shark.  The boy represents Wanda by being alone, needing something to sustain him to live.  The Shark is her subconsciousness trying to convince her to sustain herself with "yomagic" "your magic" "her magic.  She thinks she can fulfill her needs by relying on her powers, but she can't.  And she's slowly realizing that it's killing her too.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 19, 2021, 08:00:45 AM
that makes sense.

:siren: and this next episode has a Mid Credits Scene :siren:

Basically the Agatha Harkness theory was confirmed and she is very much not under Wanda's spell.
She's manipulating things the entire time, and even behind the fake Pietro (not FoX-Men Pietro).
They haven't revealed who he is, but clearly working for Agatha.

and important to note is Wanda's magic is Red, Agatha's magic is Purple.

for what it's worth, I think Agatha just tricked/pushed Wanda to give up her kids of her own free will by telling them to go with Agatha. Played them right into Agatha's control with no resistance from any of the 3 parties, and no Vision to interfere either.

What's interesting is that Agatha wasn't caught in the hex when it started, but inserted herself right after it started. She may have been the one to manipulate Wanda into starting this whole crazy show in the first place.

Can't believe I almost forgot to talk about how Monica has her powers now. She's been rewritten enough times to alter strength enough to push through and rewrite the rest herself. I wonder if it's because when she was expelled, she was wrapped in Wanda's Choas Magic when being rewritten, and that's why she will end up changed in that way and not everyone else who also passed through the barriers.
So if Wanda ends up forcefully expelling everyone through the barrier, it could have a "mutating" effect on them at a DNA level instead of just changing their clothes. (/my theory)

edit: and a possible explanation for this weeks commercial:
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nexus_of_All_Realities
https://superheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Nexus_of_All_Realities
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 19, 2021, 09:00:56 AM
I was really enjoying this episode until the end reveal.  I mean at the end of the day all the most basic plot twists have been very easily predicted and the story is feeling kinda shallow.  I love the themes of the show and I love the idea of going through grief and loss, but what is the end game?  That is still something that needs to be sorted out...and I can't wait to watch it, I am hoping for some surprises. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on February 19, 2021, 02:56:48 PM
They did the double reverse with Agnes, so I'll give them credit for that, especially since I fell for it. The fun jingle at the end made me less upset that they went back to the obvious route however.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on February 19, 2021, 03:20:11 PM
Loved The Office opening credits this week. Finally a sitcom I recognise.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 20, 2021, 02:57:17 PM
another potential reference for the commercial for this weeks episode:
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Nexus_Beings

and the Agatha reveal was so cheesy. I loved it. LOL
was that a play on the Munsters theme?

(https://imgur.com/a/sS3helO#xqUg1Xn)
https://imgur.com/a/sS3helO#xqUg1Xn
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 26, 2021, 08:38:08 AM
The Comicbook panels and storylines are coming to the screen!!!

:siren: There is another MID CREDITS SCENE :siren: don't miss it, because Spoiler below

So Director Hayward was lying about Wanda stealing Vision's body, seemingly trying to paint Wanda as an evil and dangerous superpowered thief that stole from the Gov.
when in reality, she's just a grieving but dangerous witch, w/ an Infinity Stone power up, who accidentally took over 100+ acres and everything and everyone within it to play a part in her fantasy come reality creation of the life she wanted.

Agatha happens to witness this from the get go... probably living somewhere nearby (or in town already), and just wanted to know who was powerful enough to create such a bubble, to wield so much power, and was using wasting it to relive a simple TV Family lifestyle.
So it appears she deduced it had to be Wanda, and started pulling the strings to get her to show her power, and reveal how she was able to wield such immense magical power, create this bubble, manipulate soooo many people, and eventually create actual beings and matter out of thin air.

I guess Hayward is lucky that his attempts on Wanda's life were doomed to fail, and that she bothered to return their drone, otherwise his actual goal to resurrect Vision but under his control (White Vision) would have never been successful.

We only have 1x 45-50 minute episode (including credits) left, unless the finale episode is set to be feature length.

But we got to see a glimpse of Wanda as a child, from post credits of TWS where she got her powerup, and Civil War(?) where she first "fell in love" with Vision. Turns out that she was always powered, and just never really knew it.... the mythical "Scarlet Witch", but is somehow able to use her power without incantation or knowledge of what she is doing, and so powerful that she is wielding "Chaos Magic" at will.

So does Agatha become friend and teach her the laws of the land?
What is up with fake Pietro (not FoX-Men QS), and Monica?

and Agatha made it known that Necromancy is not impossible... killing the dog was a ploy to get Wanda to reveal her true power, and reveal that she practiced "Dark Arts" like Agatha. It was a test... as she really wanted to see what Wanda's limits where prior to a direct confrontation.

and when White Vision is online..... who is he? (I haven't read any of those comics)
 - Will he be "Vision", Ultron, Jarvis, or more Dr. BannerStark. Something else entirely - cold and emotionless?
but what happens to Wanda's Vision if the bubble were to collapse?

Where and How will this tie into Doctor Strange!!? and how will they resolve all of this in just 35 minutes of actual show time!!!!

Is it Next Friday yet?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 27, 2021, 05:53:12 PM
Another quick thought.... ok, 2 quick thoughts

Hayward says: "I can't let you leave here with $6B(?) in vibranium, when she's talking about taking Vision's body, and eventually Wanda just left.

Wasn't there a video of Wanda storming the building and taking the body?
was that all just fabricated? (not that it would be a stretch for them to doctor such a video/event in such a short time in the MCU w/ the tech they have at hand)

and two.... Where is Wakanda on the recovery of all this stolen Vibranium? Vision died in Wakanda, or just outside of, and on the African Continent. Did they state how Vision's body was released from Wakandan control and back to the U.S. under SWORD? or have we just kinda glossed over that for now?

you'd figure, that even with Shuri dusted, studying of Vision as a feat of man would have been a high priority. With BP also dusted, I sincerely doubt they would even give Tony Stark the remains to hold on to privately, as it was created with stolen national resources and also incorporated into the most advanced piece of robotics ever created on Earth.

but maybe I need to set the blunt down and stop over thinking this....
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on February 27, 2021, 07:11:39 PM
Wanda's Vision is the soul and Hayward's Vision is the body.  They'll fight, kiss and make up, and unite to give us a whole Vision at the end of things.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 27, 2021, 07:44:14 PM
UncleBob:  Yeah, I was coming here to say something like that.  The Vision in the Hex knows the truth and is smart enough to put together what that body is...Phasing through it and rematerializing inside the body would be a very cool comic-book way to get a living Vision back, AND not just have it be Wanda's magic...which I really do think they want to limit from making it able to raise the dead...because then she could raise anyone she wanted.

BlacknMild:  Wakanda is probably in shambles after the Infinity War.  It was ground zero for the battle and so even before the snap Wakanda suffered several loses...if Vision's body was recovered before the snap, Wakanda may not have been in the position to stop an operation from getting Vision's body out.  They may have even allowed it out believing it would be given a hero death. 

How I think the next episode will go:  Agatha and Scarlet Witch will have a very small fight, and be interrupted by White Vision and the Military.  Agatha will let Scarlet Witch go to fight and defend her reality but she will do this to watch and study her magic.  White Vision will fight Scarlet Witch and almost beat her...until the Hex Vision flies and merges with the body. 

Then we get the scene from the commercial where Scarlet Witch tells Vision this is our home lets fight for it.  There is a big military vs. Scarlet Witch fight.  Somewhere Agatha will try to attack Scarlet Witch again. 

At the end of battle Scarlet Witch will have a confrontation with someone...Whoever the confrontation is with and whatever it is about...I could see it going to either Hayward or Agatha, but it is going to cause Scarlet Witch to do something crazy and cause a world changing event all over the Earth. 

What will that event be?  I dunno.  My 2 best is either:

A) Hayward calling her a monster a freak or mutant and she says something to create more mutants...but that is the less shocking predicted out come.

B) She does something that changes the entire world into her hex world, but not one that she in control of...a more free and organic version of it...and this leads to Doctor Strange coming to confront her...cliffhanger and potential season 2 plot device.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 28, 2021, 03:36:10 PM
I'm thinking the next episode is gonna have double run time length, and be around 70 minutes long.

I'm also really eager to see who the teased cameo/character appearance is gonna be.
Someone Paul Bettany has never worked with before iirc... (meaning it's not Cumberbatch "Dr. Strange")

I have no real speculation on how this is supposed to wrap up, or how it's going to tie in, connect to, or directly lead into Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness and then Spider-Man: No Way Home

I've never read the comics on Vision (white or otherwise)/Scarlet Witch/SWORD/Agatha Harkness, so I have no idea where this could go.
I've avoided all spoilers (outside of Bettany teasing being excited to work with this person that he's always wanted to work with before)

and most of the speculation I've read so far all just seems like baseless speculation, so I feel clueless right now, and I'm good with that. Completely in the dark for now, but i'm sure comic panels on potential plot lines will pop up in places (like Vision in dissected, Agatha being friends w/ Wanda, etc etc)

and then we still have to deal with Monica coming back into play with new powers
Not(?) FoX-Men QS kidnapping her
Agatha and the kids
SWORD w/ White Vision outside the Hex Barrier
Regular Vision
Darcy he left at the light
Agent Woo and the Missing Person he originally came looking for
the Hex Barrier and everyone trapped in it.....

and then the direct connection to DS:MoM

too much to cover in 35/40 minutes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 28, 2021, 04:22:03 PM
I'm just gonna share this as they reference some comics that could be sharing where this is going

New Rockstars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy6z5Q-PuAk

Once again, Mephisto keeps coming up. West Coast Avengers and comic history between Wanda, Agness, the kids, Mephisto, and White Vision.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on February 28, 2021, 05:18:29 PM
>Someone Paul Bettany has never worked with before iirc...

A youtuber played the clip from the interview where he said this and looking at things now, Bettany was talking about.... working with Bettany.

"It's an actor that I've longed to work with all of my life," said Bettany. "We have some amazing scenes together and the chemistry between us is, I think, extraordinary. It's just fireworks on set. So, I'm really excited for people to see that stuff."

He's being cheeky.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on February 28, 2021, 06:28:42 PM
BlackNMarvel2k1:
(https://i.ibb.co/rkrGZpy/Charlie-conspiracy-board.jpg)
UncleBob: *nonchalantly sips soda* Prolly Bettany.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 01, 2021, 01:21:04 AM
The actress playing Monica was also teasing about being excited to reveal who her "engineer friend" was, and so far it turned out to ne fuckingnothing.gif.
If Bettany was teasing being able to act with himself (OG Vision vs White Vision), that would actually make perfect fucking sense, and I should have though to of that after having seen the episode.

Now they just need to reveal that Monica's "engineer friend" is a Skrull or something, because that minor "hype" she did was a dud so far. I'm not even sure her female engineer friend had a name. LOL


page from the comics: White Vision, Wanda, and the kids
https://abload.de/img/414ug9.jpg
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on March 01, 2021, 12:52:53 PM
Yeah, we were quite confused about the engineer line. Wife thought it was the commander they met at that camp because who else had any screen time? It could be a breadcrumb for a future series, but such an odd thing to latch on to by the actress.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 01, 2021, 07:00:30 PM
The thing is, that the Actresses script could have a name of who the character really is...and that actor may have a contract to be involved in more shows...and we don't know.  And maybe it won't be even acknowledged in this series.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 05, 2021, 04:18:16 AM
Season (Mini-Series) Finale!!!

:siren: Mid Credit & Post Credit Scene :siren:

We finally found out who Ralph was (Ralph Boehner)
Vision v Vision, I am the real vision v neither of us are the real vision! Who's the real Vision now?
Hayward exposes himself to Woo, Darcy turns him in for indecent exposure
Monica sacrifices herself to save 2 fake children... children die in the end anyway. (Monica survives and is summoned away)
Agatha thought she had Wanda out smarted, but turns out Wanda is a quick study.

Something tells me that after the sabbatical, the WandaVision family may be seen again, but no Hex needed this time.

In the end, Monica has new powers to explore, and she didn't seem all that curious about them while developing them.... I found that to be a bit weird.
and Wanda will get a HUGE power buff by astral learning the Darkhold.... which I'm sure is the connection to Doctor Strange. I'm guessing Agatha will be her "mentor"/"trainer" even though she was kinda left behind in Westview and not shown in the post credit scene.


No Mutants, no Sorcerer Supreme cameo (just a name drop), no Multi-verse, No Mephisto, No Nightmare.

but I'm ready for Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Let's GOOOOOOO!!
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 05, 2021, 07:48:45 AM
And Wanda's new duds look amazing. Can't wait to see more of those.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 05, 2021, 09:48:14 AM
B&M:  If she finishes that book does she really need Agatha?  Seriously, she is studying a book that is explaining all her powers which seem to be quite different than other magicians...so much so they wrote a book how to defeat her.  I think she definitely could become a Dark Phoenix like villain...which would be fun, since The Scarlet Witch I believe started as a villain then became a hero...so to basically start as an Avenger (I know Age of Ultron) but really that was an origin story...and become a Villain would be cool. 

The series finale definitely had the emotional drama and the feels, but overall I feel this series could have been told as a single movie...and feel better.  There wasn't that much that truly happened in this story.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 05, 2021, 10:36:19 AM
Wanda's new fit was looking great, even the tiara.
They nailed it. It was sexy without being revealing, and classy while she also looked powerful. Like Queen of the Witches.

as for Agatha.... Wanda gonna need someone to experiment on that she won't feel guilty about.

but we also forgot about Mr. Scratchy..... just an easter egg?
We haven't seen the last of Agatha, so maybe Mr. Scratchy has more story as well? (failed summoning of Mephisto? just a transmutation?)

Also where does new Vision pop up next? He just took off after HexVision executed the Memdows Recovery Disc on him. Too bad he didn't upload his new experiences/consciousness from the Hex as well.... or maybe he did?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 05, 2021, 03:43:46 PM
That Vision v Vision fight scene was just wonderful. Very exciting with a very interesting power set to dual. The only complaint I had was that they fell into that stupid trope again where you have the two beams hitting each other from either end with one eventually being overpowered.

I hope anyone that's had absolutely anything to do with the Arrowverse was watching this and feeling woefully inadequate and embarrassed.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on March 05, 2021, 03:47:03 PM
Agatha might cackle like a witch, but then you wonder if she was really a bad person after all? I mean she existed for hundreds of years without upsetting the order of the universe. She said she takes powers from those that aren't worthy. With all the bad witch stuff Wanda was doing to that town as someone who is responsible about their powers Agatha might have wanted to restore balance. She's not even a villain in the comics. I'm rating her as neutral. But she did kill a dog.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 05, 2021, 04:37:33 PM
That Vision v Vision fight scene was just wonderful. Very exciting with a very interesting power set to dual. The only complaint I had was that they fell into that stupid trope again where you have the two beams hitting each other from either end with one eventually being overpowered.

I hope anyone that's had absolutely anything to do with the Arrowverse was watching this and feeling woefully inadequate and embarrassed.

That fight scene probably had a budget larger than an entire seasonal arc of any particular Arrowverse show. But yes, they should probably still feel ashamed. I agree.

Agatha might cackle like a witch, but then you wonder if she was really a bad person after all? I mean she existed for hundreds of years without upsetting the order of the universe. She said she takes powers from those that aren't worthy. With all the bad witch stuff Wanda was doing to that town as someone who is responsible about their powers Agatha might have wanted to restore balance. She's not even a villain in the comics. I'm rating her as neutral. But she did kill a dog.

Was that dog even real though? that dog may have been a transmuted insect of some sort.
But I'm sure Agatha is misunderstood, just as was Wanda.
Agatha could've came at Wanda differently, but instead she chose to challenge her over her powers and their usage. She came at the queen and missed... wide left.
a miscalculation she likely won't make again.

One other thing I forgot to mention, the Darkhold (I liked the AoS version where is spelled darkhold both ways), was clearly different. So unless there is more than once copy of the book, which is possible, our chances of AoS becoming Non-Multiversal Cannon (prior to a certain point) have just sunk even lower.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on March 05, 2021, 05:38:19 PM

That fight scene probably had a budget larger than an entire seasonal arc of any particular Arrowverse show. But yes, they should probably still feel ashamed. I agree.


No doubt. But I was referring more to the entire show than just that fight scene. The writing was infinitely better. And I didn't yell at the TV once like I used to do when watching the Arrowverse shows.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on March 05, 2021, 09:13:10 PM
and remember Sam Raimi is directing Doctor Strange 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xB5GBvOqEY
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 05, 2021, 09:52:50 PM
and remember Sam Raimi is directing Doctor Strange 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xB5GBvOqEY

And Bruce Campbell already teased his part in the film being filmed already.
w/o actually saying what film it was he was finished shooting, of course.


also:
they all about to be back soon (except for Vision, HexVision, and the kids)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvtBYbrUYAUDnsy?format=jpg)

and I actually liked the kids.
I wonder if where White Vision shows up next, and when the next time we see the Vision Family.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on March 05, 2021, 10:03:09 PM
What a finale! I love that the ending positioned Wanda to be both a powerful force and potential focal point for the MCU. It seemed like all the key protagonists split off for their own things. Hopes were high for the number of new focal points, but I still felt satisfied for what we got.

I suspect Wanda goes back to Agatha for training. And it's possible she attempts to steal another book. Either way, I'm excited to see how she turns up in Dr. Strange 2.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 05, 2021, 10:07:44 PM
The Darkhold will only show her so much. There is SOOOOOO much more to know, which is why Strange is was constantly raiding the library and astral studying in his sleep. The only way he was able to become Sorcerer Supreme in such a short amount of time.

Wanda may have to go back to Agatha to know more, or find out where to learn more.
Of course going straight to Strange is always a possibility, but Wanda vs Strange will be way more interesting.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 06, 2021, 02:43:22 AM
Hey, Marvel built up yet another big fight at the end between two heroes with similar powers... twice.  Agatha vs. Wanda, Vision vs. Vision.  There's a twist!

DS:MoM is just going to end with Strange fighting an Evil Dr. Strange from another universe. 🤣

Let's be real - If this were any other show that wasn't Marvel where we had no guarantee of a second season or 100 hours of upcoming content to expand on everything... none of us would be happy with that ending.

There's easily a dozen plot threads left dangling.

And yet... I am okay with that.  Maybe it's because I know they're world building and we'll have plenty of room to work with all this down the road.

All that said, it's absolutely weird that I had never heard of the Ship Of Theseus until a very short while ago (I want to say it was brought up on some random YouTube video I watched) and, blam, Vision mentions it and I'm like "Hey, I know that..."  It's like when you were just talking about something, then see ads for that something on Facebook (except I don't see ads on Facebook....)  Very weird.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 06, 2021, 01:11:51 PM
It seemed like all the key protagonists split off for their own things.
Unfortunately. I need that Jimmy Woo/Darcy Lewis The M Files show.
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I suspect Wanda goes back to Agatha for training. And it's possible she attempts to steal another book. Either way, I'm excited to see how she turns up in Dr. Strange 2.
That’s the impression I got. Agatha trains Wanda in the comics, right? Agatha is one of the few Marvel villains who didn’t get immediately discarded. She may not have quite reached Loki/Thanos/Killmonger levels, but she is the only one with a theme song and that has to count for something. I’m looking forward to seeing Kathryn Hahn return.

Not sure I see Wanda stealing some magic books. She could just ask, yeah? I’m excited to see where the Multiverse of Madness goes.
There's easily a dozen plot threads left dangling.
Such as?

I don’t mean that rhetorically. I’ve only watched each episode once so I can only remember a few. White Vision and Darcy both separately Poochie’d out of there. I thought it was kind of weird that White Vision gets his memories back, sees Wanda fighting a witch yet still fucks off to parts unknown. I wouldn’t count the mid and end credits scenes.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 06, 2021, 05:12:05 PM
White Vision is the biggest.  Darcy with one line and gone seemed like a dropped thread.  Everything with Monica.Even without the stinger, you know the kids are still a thing.  Woo's missing person.  Few other things.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 06, 2021, 08:23:58 PM
Seemingly forgotten is the "missing person" case that brought Woo to NJ in the first place.
Was it Boehner?

Most everything else I'm sure will be picked up at a later date and time.

Anyone care to speculate as to where Bleached Vision flew off to in such a hurry, and where he'll turn up next?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on March 06, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
Vision took off because he still had some things to work through I think. Probably went to revisit places in his memories. In a later show we'll probably see him (or see him tell someone) where he went and what he thought and he ends up back in Westview to begin looking for Wanda unless he can sense here elsewhere. (Maybe he shows up when Wanda goes to get Agatha).

I thought that the not-Pietro was the missing person Woo was looking for but maybe I just assumed that on my own.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 06, 2021, 10:35:46 PM
Most everything else I'm sure will be picked up at a later date and time.

No doubt.  But for a "Series Finale", this leaves me about as unsatisfied as Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Something else I didn't like - Wanda basically tortured an entire town for, what, weeks?  And at the end, Monica is al "Well, bye."  Like, I get it, your life sucks Wanda.  But you don't get to torture an entire town because of it.  On one hand, I'm glad they didn't cop out and make it not be her, but since she doesn't have to deal with any of the fallout, they might as well have.  You know, in case Wanda didn't already give the world enough of a reason for a superhero registry.

What did Haywood do that ends up with him in cuffs anyway?  Agatha gets to live a normal life as a freeish person.  Wanda gets to live in a remote cabin and hone her powers.  Those two were the only people doing any harm in the entire show.  Heck, Agatha's harm is even debatable.  But Haywood is treated as the bad guy?  For, what, doing his job?

 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 07, 2021, 04:13:20 AM
Something else I didn't like - Wanda basically tortured an entire town for, what, weeks?  And at the end, Monica is al "Well, bye."  Like, I get it, your life sucks Wanda.  But you don't get to torture an entire town because of it.
I was under the impression that Marvel is going to hand-wave this away by explaining this as Wanda didn't know she was torturing an entire town. I don't agree, just saying that seems like what it's going with. I imagine she's now on some most wanted/watch lists if she wasn't already. Is the government sending anyone after her? Who's available who even stands a chance?

I wasn't disappointed in not getting an explanation to all the questions I had and not because they'll likely be answered later. Rather, I viewed Wandavision as a story about Wanda confronting her grief and to that end, I think it largely succeeds. Wanda confronting her guilt over her actions in Westview could be a completely different story. The world keeps spinning after the credits roll or the last line on the page.
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What did Haywood do that ends up with him in cuffs anyway?  Agatha gets to live a normal life as a freeish person.  Wanda gets to live in a remote cabin and hone her powers.  Those two were the only people doing any harm in the entire show.  Heck, Agatha's harm is even debatable.  But Haywood is treated as the bad guy?  For, what, doing his job?
Attempted murder, reckless endangerment, conspiracy to commit a crime, tampering with evidence, and I'm sure a litany of others I'm not aware of as a non-expert in law. Despite being the Acting Director of S.W.O.R.D., Hayward may have overstepped his authority on numerous occasions but notably after Wanda expanded the Hex. He was all "Release The Vision!" and his conversation with Woo in the finale suggested Hayward absolutely should not be doing that. When White Vision fucks off, Hayward is solely responsible for losing a prized and valuable asset, one he even specifically calls a weapon. Imagine losing a nuke and just sitting there like "Whoopsie daisy!" I never thought Hayward was merely "doing his job".

None of the above absolves Wanda and Agatha. However, no one knows who Agatha is. There's no footage of her doing anything; no evidence she was anything more than someone under Wanda's spell. Her punishment is handed out by Wanda, and the only two mostly uncompromised witnesses (or three if you count Darcy) aren't going to say anything. I don't think that's the show giving Agatha a pass or anything. Additionally, I kind of got the impression she's a prisoner in her own mind like everyone else in Westview was. On the surface, she's Agnes the nosy neighbor, but internally, she like, "Get me the **** out of here!"
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 07, 2021, 11:43:50 AM
Who did he attempt to murder?  Besides Wanda who was a very active threat?

I think he'd need to answer for the loss of Vision, but I can't really fault him for the chain of events.  Wanda was a huge threat, a huge unknown variable, and was actively endangering many lives.  Presumably, he had orders/authority to attempt to bring Vision back online (it's not like he was hiding what he was up to) and I'd think a super powered crazy person taking over an entire town and, later, a military base, is the exact kind of situation you'd want a Vision for. Keep in mind, at this point, Wanda already came out of the Hex and was all "**** you, **** you, and especially **** you, I'll do what I want."  She was a threat to be eliminated.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 07, 2021, 01:12:13 PM
Hayward shoots at the kids (who he didn't know weren't "real") then kept shooting when Monica jumped in front of them.

He doctored footage of Wanda breaking into S.W.O.R.D. and stealing Vision's body so most of his actions on the show were predicated on a lie he created and perpetuated. Would he have gotten clearance to send that drone after Wanda if he didn't make her look like more of threat than she was at the time? That's attempted murder based on false pretenses. S.W.O.R.D. didn't have good intel when Hayward approved that strike, but he tried to brute force his way through that incident without doing the work I imagine they were sent there to do. That one lie subsequently made everything worse. If you're asking why he was arrested and treated as a bad guy, it's because of all the crimes he commits.
(https://i.ibb.co/SJ5wsYS/secret-ingredit-crime.png)

That is, of course, a separate point from why Wanda and Agatha aren't narratively arrested and treated as bad guys. First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic. She is treated like a bad guy by everyone in Westview, and I presume the authorities are looking for her. I don't believe the show is trying to justify Wanda's actions because she hasn't faced any legal repercussions (yet). Then, as previously stated, no one knows Agatha did anything except for the people who won't corroborate that she did anything. I'm not sure if you consider that to be a dangling plot thread. For what it's worth, I don't.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: ThePerm on March 07, 2021, 03:13:26 PM
lol Super Hans
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 07, 2021, 03:28:23 PM
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Hayward shoots at the kids (who he didn't know weren't "real") then kept shooting when Monica jumped in front of them.

With Wanda televising the events, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to question if they exist.  That said, three superpowered individuals are squaring off against you and your men in defense of a crazy powerful witch that's been torturing a few thousand people over the past few weeks, I don't much care if they're kids or not.

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He doctored footage of Wanda breaking into S.W.O.R.D. and stealing Vision's body so most of his actions on the show were predicated on a lie he created and perpetuated. Would he have gotten clearance to send that drone after Wanda if he didn't make her look like more of threat than she was at the time?

Again, Wanda was torturing the entire town of Westview, to the point where they were begging for death.  Take her out.

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First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic.

Monica has super powers as well.  Even a line "You know I can't just let you go, right?  These people deserve justice."  "Naw, fam, I got better things to do.  Peace out."

Instead, Monica's all "Oh, you were just sad.  I've been sad too.  Bye."

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Then, as previously stated, no one knows Agatha did anything except for the people who won't corroborate that she did anything.

Granted, we don't know what was/wasn't televised (I assumed the Agatha All Along reveal was televised, but I guess that could have just been for Wanda's viewing enjoyment.), but aside from that, Monica knows a large part of what Agatha was responsible for.  And she just lets her go as well.
 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Plugabugz on March 07, 2021, 03:30:05 PM
The lack of consequences - and Monica saying "i'd have done the same too!" - did begin to frustrate me after i let the episode sink in.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 07, 2021, 06:36:42 PM
The lack of consequences - and Monica saying "i'd have done the same too!" - did begin to frustrate me after i let the episode sink in.

I think Scarlet Witch's self isolation is her personal sacrifice, but overall yes it was annoying.  The idea because she was a hero and we should root for her, her actions have must be justified was sad.  I would have liked more confrontation with the people she attacked.  Maybe even a physical altercation.  But the reality is at least Monica should have stood up to her.  Though this could be leading up to the Dark Avengers, or a more government controlled Avengers seeking out meta-humans and policing them...which could lead in to a phase 5 X-Men.  Basically having the world split into government sponsored and controlled heroes and then freelance secret heroes and finally mutants. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 07, 2021, 06:38:35 PM
With Wanda televising the events, I don't think it's unreasonable for him to question if they exist.  That said, three superpowered individuals are squaring off against you and your men in defense of a crazy powerful witch that's been torturing a few thousand people over the past few weeks, I don't much care if they're kids or not.
Sure, but it's still something someone could reasonably be arrested for which it should be noted, can happen without being formally charged (and subsequently tried and sentenced). And even if you want to take attempted murder off the table, Hayward still committed a bunch of other crimes.
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Again, Wanda was torturing the entire town of Westview, to the point where they were begging for death.  Take her out.
Understood, and the point is Hayward most likely didn't need to do anything illegal. He was simply too impatient to do things the proper way. Hayward even admits this in the finale: "No one's going to care once I've eliminated Wanda Maximoff." Maybe? Your original questions were "What did Haywood do that ends up with him in cuffs anyway?" and "But Haywood is treated as the bad guy?" and the answer to both of those questions is because he kept breaking the law. Why he did so is immaterial as a legal matter. Tampering with evidence, for example, is still a crime and one that people regularly get arrested for and charged with. If you want to defend Hayward from a moral standpoint, I'm not here to argue that. From a legal standpoint? Yeah, he absolutely should be arrested and at least questioned. People can get arrested based on reasonable suspicion though the text shows Hayward actually committed several crimes (which would be probable cause, a legal standard of proof greater than reasonable suspicion).

That said, the end doesn't justify the means. Wanda committing crimes doesn't give Hayward license to commit his own crimes. Hayward had all the tools at his disposal to follow protocol and go through the proper channels yet he decided to take shortcuts that were unfortunately outside of what is allowed under the law. If you apply that same reasoning to any other situation, he would still be arrested.
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First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic.

Monica has super powers as well.  Even a line "You know I can't just let you go, right?  These people deserve justice."  "Naw, fam, I got better things to do.  Peace out."

Instead, Monica's all "Oh, you were just sad.  I've been sad too.  Bye."
Contextually speaking, I feel like you quoted around the important bits so here's the full quote (emphasis is mine):
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That is, of course, a separate point from why Wanda and Agatha aren't narratively arrested and treated as bad guys. First, Wanda is not arrested because she just flies away and has demonstrated the ability to literally disappear because magic. She is treated like a bad guy by everyone in Westview, and I presume the authorities are looking for her. I don't believe the show is trying to justify Wanda's actions because she hasn't faced any legal repercussions (yet).
Narratively speaking, Wanda wasn't arrested because she flew away and no one could stop her. I think the text supports this. That isn't commentary on whether she should be arrested. To clarify, in my humble opinion, yeah, Wanda should be arrested for (at least) all the kidnapping and torture. I don't think anyone here was saying otherwise. I don't even think the show itself was suggesting otherwise.

To your point about Monica, if you're saying she should have at least tried to arrest Wanda, sure. I'm not arguing that. Did Monica, as a S.W.O.R.D. agent, have the authority to arrest Wanda even if she wanted to? That isn't a rhetorical question. I don't know the answer to that. I was under the impression that the FBI arrested Hayward because Woo called for back up. It seemed like Wanda was long gone by the time the FBI got there. Maybe they would have tried to arrest Wanda? Who's to say.

Separately, I'm not sure Monica could have arrested Wanda unless Wanda surrendered. Are Monica's superpowers anywhere near Wanda's who seemingly became even more powerful? Wanda almost killed Thanos singlehandedly pre-power boost while Monica was only shown to phase through bullets and maybe display improved agility (i.e. superhero landing in episode 7).
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Granted, we don't know what was/wasn't televised (I assumed the Agatha All Along reveal was televised, but I guess that could have just been for Wanda's viewing enjoyment.), but aside from that, Monica knows a large part of what Agatha was responsible for.  And she just lets her go as well.
I thought "Agatha All Along" was for us (the real world audience), and Wanda's show effectively ended when Agatha trapped Wanda in the basement. Then, in the next episode, there was that line about runes and only the witch who cast the spell can use her power there, suggesting Wanda couldn't be broadcasting because she was cut off from using her powers.

Regardless, yes, Monica is one of the people who won't corroborate what Agatha did which is why Agatha wasn't arrested strictly from a narrative perspective. That doesn't mean she shouldn't have been arrested. A short list of Agatha's crimes specifically in Westview (or I suppose, technically Eastview) include but aren't limited to destruction of property, reckless endangerment, kidnapping, assault and battery, and a case can probably be made for aiding and abetting. If you're implying Monica isn't performing her duties as a S.W.O.R.D. agent, again, I'm not here to argue that.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 07, 2021, 07:26:26 PM
Two quick things:

Lying, in and of itself, isn't a crime.  Government officials lie without repercussions all the time. Like, presidents even.  Nothing Hayward did was much worse than Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. using the tesseract to build weapons and not being upfront about it.  I'd have to rewatch the episode, but did he actually tamper with the footage or did he just show the bits of the footage that played with the story he was telling?

He's not a great guy, for sure.  I just don't really see them having enough evidence to take him away on-sight.  What's annoying is that he could have been developed into a pretty good quasi-protagonist.  He's just a regular guy who lived through five years of hell brought on by super powered individuals and aliens who is now tasked with a **** ton of stress trying to protect the world from something like that again.

Heck, Cap and Co. went to another universe and stole the mind stone from the US Government (okay, secret Hydra agents, but no one knew that and he stole it from the government).  Then, snuck onto a military base and stole the tesseract from the government.  We rooted for him, right?  Why is his crimes okay, but Hayward's is frowned upon.  Everything Hayward did was in response to the fear of another attack and here's Wanda attacking.

>Are Monica's superpowers anywhere near Wanda's

I mean, she was willing to try to take on Wanda earlier in the season.  Isn't that what the good guys do?  Like Steve Rogers refusing to stand down against theater bullies or Thanos?  Imagine Endgame if Cap had looked at Thanos and was like "Yeah, I don't stand a chance against you.  Peace out, man."  One line to establish that Monica wasn't okay with what Wanda did and that Wanda was now a criminal.  I disagree that the show didn't try to justify her actions because of the way Monica handled her at the end. 

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 07, 2021, 08:56:13 PM
Lying, in and of itself, isn't a crime.  Government officials lie without repercussions all the time. Like, presidents even.  Nothing Hayward did was much worse than Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. using the tesseract to build weapons and not being upfront about it.
Lying itself, no. The manner in which the lie was created, yes. We have laws against this.

Also, most of these characters in the MCU should have been arrested several times over from a legal standpoint. As the audience, we ignore this because we want to be entertained. For example, Daredevil beats the ever living **** out of people he has no business beating the **** out of, but damn if that stairwell scene wasn't badass. 🤷‍♀️
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I'd have to rewatch the episode, but did he actually tamper with the footage or did he just show the bits of the footage that played with the story he was telling?
The latter is tampering.
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He's not a great guy, for sure.  I just don't really see them having enough evidence to take him away on-sight.  What's annoying is that he could have been developed into a pretty good quasi-protagonist.  He's just a regular guy who lived through five years of hell brought on by super powered individuals and aliens who is now tasked with a **** ton of stress trying to protect the world from something like that again.
Fair though I don't think Hayward was arrested on sight. If I'm correct and he was arrested by the FBI, Woo can serve as a witness to have Hayward arrested on reasonable suspicion.
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I mean, she was willing to try to take on Wanda earlier in the season.  Isn't that what the good guys do?  Like Steve Rogers refusing to stand down against theater bullies or Thanos?  Imagine Endgame if Cap had looked at Thanos and was like "Yeah, I don't stand a chance against you.  Peace out, man."  One line to establish that Monica wasn't okay with what Wanda did and that Wanda was now a criminal.
I mean, Monica tried and was vastly unsuccessful. Also, it's fair for Monica to change her mind when presented with additional information. I don't believe she views Wanda as a criminal which should reflect poorly on her as one of the supposed good guys. That might be another Marvel hand-wave.
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I disagree that the show didn't try to justify her actions because of the way Monica handled her at the end.
Alternatively, the residents of Eastview who Wanda held captive confronted her in the town square and were decidedly not so willing to forgive and forget. Then, upon returning to the square, she got a lot of dirty looks from dozens of people who knew they couldn't do much more about it (were they are all just standing there the entire time, waiting for Wanda to come back?).

I viewed the show's stance more as "We want the audience to understand why Wanda did what she did, but that doesn't make it right, and other people suffered for it."
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 07, 2021, 09:38:21 PM
>The latter is tampering.

Is it?  In a court of law, sure.  But if I'm showing my workmates a video where a guy drives a forklift into a parked vehicle to preach forklift safety, am I "tampering" if I don't show them the footage from right before showing we staged this?  Obviously, he lied and that's not good, but did he have any legal requirement to tell his subordinates the truth?

>Monica tried and was vastly unsuccessfuL

Monica stood her ground and stared her down until Agatha came along and pulled Wanda away.  We don't really know how that would have played out.  In fact, I don't really see why Agatha would have split up the fight unless she was concerned that Monica could have the potential to stop Wanda before Agatha got the chance to steal her power.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2021, 01:24:46 AM
Is it?  In a court of law, sure.
Well, yeah. I thought that was the point considering this arm of the discussion began when you asked why Hayward was arrested. Moreover, Woo brings this up in the finale, and Hayward not only doesn't deny it but leans into its illegality.
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But if I'm showing my workmates a video where a guy drives a forklift into a parked vehicle to preach forklift safety, am I "tampering" if I don't show them the footage from right before showing we staged this?  Obviously, he lied and that's not good, but did he have any legal requirement to tell his subordinates the truth?
That isn't a 1:1 comparison. Creating a workplace safety video isn't tampering with evidence because there's no evidence to tamper with. By admission, it was staged so no one broke any laws by manipulating that footage. Tampering with evidence "is an act in which a person alters, conceals, falsifies, or destroys evidence with the intent to interfere with an investigation (usually) by a law-enforcement, governmental, or regulatory authority." That's from Wikipedia but the citation is the Duke Law Journal.

The briefing in episode 5 is not necessarily the problem here (I realized after that's probably what you were referring to in the other post). Hayward doesn't have to tell his subordinates anything, the truth or otherwise. However, as Acting Director of S.W.O.R.D, he presumably answers to someone. Since Hayward was already shown to be lying, the implication to me is he used the footage of Wanda that day to lie to his superiors in order to get approval for whatever he wanted to do. And if he had to lie, they probably told him no the first time. That's insubordination, disobeying a direct order etc. Not off to a great start.

That said, S.W.O.R.D was actively investigating Wanda/Westview. Right off the bat, Hayward interfered with his own agency's investigation by falsifying evidence. Then, he based an entire tactical strategy and intelligence operation in part on incorrect or at best, incomplete intel. His heart was in the right place, but he actually put the lives of both his subordinates and the residents of Westview/Eastview in even more danger by skipping steps. If someone died, a case could be made for charging Hayward with involuntary manslaughter.
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Monica stood her ground and stared her down until Agatha came along and pulled Wanda away.  We don't really know how that would have played out.  In fact, I don't really see why Agatha would have split up the fight unless she was concerned that Monica could have the potential to stop Wanda before Agatha got the chance to steal her power.
Agatha's ignorance of Monica's abilities isn't an indicator of Monica's strength.

Wanda could have killed Thanos so we probably do know how Wanda vs. Monica would play out. Wanda had Monica suspended in the air using magic. I thought it was implied the only reason Monica survived was because Wanda didn't want to kill her. Alright, fine, that's admittedly speculative. We don't know for sure how powerful Monica is based on the limited use of her powers. For the record, I'm on Team There-Are-Currently-Two-Maybe-Three-Characters-In-The-MCU-That-Can-Stand-A-Chance-Against-Wanda (i.e. Captain Marvel and maybe Dr. Strange and Vision). I imagine The Eternals will change this.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: UncleBob on March 08, 2021, 02:19:34 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking of the briefing.  Do we ever see Hayward reporting to anyone above him?  He could have easily (and reasonably) been given the direction to revive Vision/Stop Wanda, whatever it takes.

As for Monica vs Wanda - I'm not saying she could take her, or that she even thought she might have a chance (I do think Agatha was concerned about it though).  I'm saying that Monica was willing to try and really had no reason to completely cast aside her willingness to go toe-to-toe with Wanda.  Wanda never really beat her, after all.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2021, 02:56:56 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking of the briefing.  Do we ever see Hayward reporting to anyone above him?  He could have easily (and reasonably) been given the direction to revive Vision/Stop Wanda, whatever it takes.
No, but the writers did go out of their way to mention Hayward was Acting Director which seemed intentional as if he didn't have total authority of the investigation. Additionally, he states he was given authorization to share the footage of Wanda at S.W.O.R.D. headquarters. The briefing scene offers several critical details though it's hard to say how truthful Hayward was about certain things. I've rewatched it a few times. There's no real reason for him to lie about that footage unless he had something to gain from it. If his superiors gave him the direction to revive Vision/stop Wanda, he could have just said that, or simply not said anything because he doesn't answer to his subordinates.
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As for Monica vs Wanda - I'm not saying she could take her, or that she even thought she might have a chance (I do think Agatha was concerned about it though).  I'm saying that Monica was willing to try and really had no reason to completely cast aside her willingness to go toe-to-toe with Wanda.  Wanda never really beat her, after all.
I don't necessarily disagree with this. I imagine being suspended in mid-air with magic would give most people second thoughts. Still, like I said earlier, this might be more Marvel hand-waving.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 08, 2021, 05:25:05 PM
I feel Hayward and SHIELD was supposed to be shown as an evil SHIELD just like in The Winter Soldier turned SHIELD evil.  The organization isn't evil, but it was filled with a "renegade" leader that is making choices that isn't up to him to make. 

The story tried to show that perhaps Hayward isn't supposed to have Vision, and the experiments to bring him back online, isn't in his jurisdiction.  If that is the case then the whole project and operation to get Vision online is illegal.  Plus, you have him tampering with security tapes and lying about the kidnapping of the Vision's body as an reasoning to go out against Wanda. 

The problem is, not enough time was spent developing his motivation and how he was a villain...it turned into just I am the head of an evil organization so I must be evil. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on March 09, 2021, 12:04:51 AM
If SWORD in this universe is an agency of the US government, Hayward could at the very least be brought in for misappropriation of funds and/or appropriations law violations.  He told Wanda he was decommissioning Vision, assuming that's true, anything he secretly did to make the white Vision could've been a crime depending on how his funding was written.  He also lied to the FBI, who was involved in the case, and lying to the FBI (specifically) is a crime, as we all know.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on March 09, 2021, 10:52:39 PM
I mean, he also wrongfully imprisoned an FBI agent, so that's another mark against him.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 09, 2021, 11:23:03 PM
He detained an FBI agent that could be tampering with an ongoing mission.  It depends on which department has higher authority, honestly.  Since SWORD like SHIELD is kinda a secret organization they probably get to skirt that area with a gray area of authority.

In the end, he is an interesting villain which should come back again.  Marvel has done a pretty good job on having more relative villains of late and Hayward, Agentha, Thanos, Zemo, Loki, Killmonger, and now I will put Wanda are villains that have a more complex nature than just I want to destroy the world.  That said, Marvel hasn't done a great fully writing their motivations and exploring their complex characters. 

Wanda is now up their with Captain America and Iron Man as being the more complex and intricately portrayed heroes.  So WandaVision has accomplished that, but overall I do think the series did not really land the landing so to speak.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 09, 2021, 11:33:19 PM
I agree the finale was kinda weak.
I'm not really sure how you stick the landing so to speak, but I'm kinda glad they didn't do the deep dive with Mephisto and all that just yet (assuming that's where they head). Give us that slow drip,

Although I do wonder if maybe aspects of the show were trimmed when WandaVision came out first, and Doctor Strange was delayed till.... next year?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2021, 06:14:46 PM
Weird, I've read two different quotes from WandaVision creators that contradict each other. One claimed that they didn't want to jerk around fans too much with fake outs (but Fak-ietro) and another was quoted as stating they couldn't have done the fake Pietro plot without having FoX-Men actor on board, which feels like it was an intentional fake-out. Honestly I'm a little irritated with the landing of the series. There are red herrings, but we got more red herrings than actual plot reveals it feels and the things they teased just feel off to be left as false leads.

I still enjoyed the episode and show as a whole, but even in the high of the end credits and teaser scene the series felt a little hollow to me. Only thing making me not as down on it is the MCU grace of knowing we'll pick up some of these plot points and some things that felt missing can be addressed later.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on March 11, 2021, 12:06:57 AM
To be honest, I think the Mephisto predictions were kinda over-reacting to a mild joke. Agness was just quipping that the bitchy lady was kind of a bitch, but the timing with the stained glass in the Loki trailer got people heavily speculating. 

Everyone seemed to be waiting for the big reveal, but the big reveal is Wanda herself.  She's one of the most power characters in comics, capable of bending all of reality.  She started out in the MCU giving people nightmares.  As a "Scarlet Witch" origin story, I think this worked pretty well.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 11, 2021, 05:20:42 AM
To be honest, I think the Mephisto predictions were kinda over-reacting to a mild joke. Agness was just quipping that the bitchy lady was kind of a bitch, but the timing with the stained glass in the Loki trailer got people heavily speculating. 

Everyone seemed to be waiting for the big reveal, but the big reveal is Wanda herself.  She's one of the most power characters in comics, capable of bending all of reality.  She started out in the MCU giving people nightmares.  As a "Scarlet Witch" origin story, I think this worked pretty well.

But see this isn't really a big reveal because the whole story is about Wanda doing this stuff.  Even by Episode 5 we know that it is all Wanda...nothing is surprising or shocking.  Even the Agnes reveal turns out to be a triple fake out because it "Wasn't her all along" it was still just Wanda all along. 

There was nothing...and if you are going to do an show only about Wanda you should have a bigger shocking Wanda like moment to emphasize what this chaos magic means.  They really should of had a no more mutants like surprise.  It didn't have to be crazy big, but it should have been SOMETHING. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 11, 2021, 12:09:38 PM
They did tease all sorts of stuff in show though.
Like Grim Reaper, The Whizzer, Mephisto, and many other little things I missed I'm sure I wasn't aware of, and that's why there was so many speculations and expectations of things being bigger through an unseen outside influence.

Also the Agatha All Along was a slight misdirection, as she wasn't responsible for everything, she was just fully aware and influencing others and events from within the bubble. So "Agnes"  was really Agatha All Along.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: nickmitch on March 11, 2021, 03:24:40 PM
Agatha was the one messing up things and throwing Wanda for a loop, especially with Fietro.  But I think Agatha All Along was done for the catchy song.

And maybe Wanda wasn't really a big "reveal" so much as it was an arc depicting her massive power up. Her character has fundamentally changed from "IDK, telekinesis and nightmares??" to full blown magic user. She was clearly more powerful than Thanos before, but got out matched by Agatha, only to level up to a class beyond that. Wanda just looks super powerful going forward, and I'm excited to see where they go from here with her.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 12, 2021, 02:03:51 AM
It was Agatha All Along - Animal Crossing Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ie5hgawBKM

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 12, 2021, 06:06:28 PM
It was Agatha All Along - Animal Crossing Version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ie5hgawBKM


That is crazy impressive.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 12, 2021, 10:00:58 PM
And the WandaVision intros... In Animal Crossing
https://youtu.be/vSrbdgzIGWY


Edit: I showed my daughter the Agatha AC video, and then she sent me the above video, so I thought I'd share that too.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 14, 2021, 02:16:23 PM
Hot Toys!!! Hot Toys!!! Come and get your HOT TOYS!!!!

(https://i.imgur.com/mBr2O7h.jpg)

plus a bonus video:
WandaVision Pitch Meeting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRkLLkpL5oY


edit:
Apparently Jimmy Woo's missing person is clearly not Bohner, but apparently is still an ongoing thing that will be revisited....
https://twitter.com/PhaseZeroCB/status/1370786901196701698?s=20

So speculate away as to who Jimmy Woo's missing person is.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 17, 2021, 01:36:09 AM
BnM: Do we know if the person is male or female?  If female I will vote for the Invisible Woman because it is too obvious.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU on the TV-View: WandaVision)
Post by: Adrock on March 21, 2021, 11:24:52 AM
Should we start a new thread for The Falcon and the Winter Solider?

First episode was fine. Falcon murder-death-kills a bunch of people like right off the bat. Anyway, I didn’t mind the slower pace of the so far though there are only six episodes. Bucky “making amends” by befriending that old guy (whose son he killed) seems like it’s heading toward a similar confession scene in The Borne Supremacy. For all the punchy-punchy-pew-pew, Bourne telling Irena he killed her parents is my favorite scene in the movie.

The only things that really stuck out to me about the first episode is that Falcon not at least wearing a helmet seems unbelievable even in a world full of superheroes, and when the leader of the terrorists in the beginning doesn’t believe his henchman who says he saw a man (Sam) outside the cockpit window. Why would a member of a terrorist cell right in the middle of doing illegal **** ever NOT believe that in a post-Blip world?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Stratos on March 21, 2021, 10:45:42 PM
I updated the title for the new show.

Felt a little lacking for a first episode but I expect things to speed up quickly with only 6 episodes.

Love the "we have ___ at home" meme with the new discount Steve Rogers floating around.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 23, 2021, 05:18:57 PM
BnM: Do we know if the person is male or female?  If female I will vote for the Invisible Woman because it is too obvious.


No ideas on who it is. I've  mostly been offline for the majority of the last 9 days, so I haven't looked into it any further either.

Should we start a new thread for The Falcon and the Winter Solider?

we could... but that's not how we do things around here ;)


Quote
First episode was fine. Falcon murder-death-kills a bunch of people like right off the bat. Anyway, I didn’t mind the slower pace of the so far though there are only six episodes.

If the pace fits the show, and they actually make us care about Falcon and Bucky beyond the action set pieces they've been apart of so far, then I'm all for it. Long form character building on D+ between large group action set pieces in the theater is what we've been wanting.

Quote
The only things that really stuck out to me about the first episode is that Falcon not at least wearing a helmet seems unbelievable even in a world full of superheroes, and when the leader of the terrorists in the beginning doesn’t believe his henchman who says he saw a man (Sam) outside the cockpit window. Why would a member of a terrorist cell right in the middle of doing illegal **** ever NOT believe that in a post-Blip world?

that particular henchman might be the paranoid type... they may constantly be dismissing his BS claims about this and that, and that may very well be why he is a lowly henchman and not a "right hand man" so to speak.


as for the show... that betrayal at the end. the announcement of a new symbol of hope for American's.... using the very Shield that Falcon just donated to the Capt America Museum Exhibit...
a total slap in the face. He should've taken up the mantle for himself, as Cap suggested he do.
I mean Cap ain't even dead... and he handed Sam the Shield personally.

Not to mention the insensitivity at the bank.... Should have sold him the selfie.
And then he should also go to Pepper and or the US Gov or just start a Avengers Go-Fund Me to get the money needed, and then some.

Either way, I assume this is gonna be about getting that Shield back and Sam becoming the real next Captain America. Earned, not Awarded.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 27, 2021, 02:11:43 AM
So episode 2...

Isaiah Bradley makes an appearance. And apparently he was the reason Bucky lost his arm?

Also Redwing was destroyed.... do we see an upgrade in tech for Falcon?

does anyone think that Isaiah may come in to save Falcon at some point and give him some blood transfusion and now Sam becomes Super too?

I'm gonna watch it again over the weekend before I comment more.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on March 27, 2021, 05:54:01 PM
Either way, I assume this is gonna be about getting that Shield back and Sam becoming the real next Captain America. Earned, not Awarded.
Didn't he earn it already? Sam is a regular man in a bird costume who helped save the universe. It made more sense to pass the shield down to him than Bucky what with all that PTSD.

Anyway, regarding episode 2, I liked it. Here are some thoughts/nitpicks:

Sam almost got shot by police for existing as a black man in America. Cool, cool...

Meanwhile, in the same scene, Bucky gets calmly taken into custody despite being an internationally known assassin. The cops might as well have stopped at Baskin Robbins and picked Bucky up a nice, cold treat. It pays to be the White Panther.

I didn't like the "We're gonna go see Zemo" line at the end. Even though I already know Zemo is in the show, I thought it would have hit harder to just cut to him. Not a huge deal though.

That one super solider sacrificing himself seemed so unnecessary. The way the scene was cut made it seem like that road was closer to the runway so it seemed like he could have made it back to the plane if he tried. Then, he just fucking runs right into their gunfire. What kind of plan is that? If you're trying to stall, why go down so easily? Maybe push down the utility pole then run away? It doesn't even have to be towards the plane. Make them chase you.

I'm not sure why Sam and Bucky need to visit Zemo anyway. Black Widow released all of SHIELD and HYDRA's files onto the internet. Surely, someone else in the last nine years pored over and documented those files. right? RIGHT?!
does anyone think that Isaiah may come in to save Falcon at some point and give him some blood transfusion and now Sam becomes Super too?
Ugh, I hope not. Isn't that how She-Hulk gets her powers? Even if Marvel doesn't go down that route in the MCU, be better than that. I kind like the fact that Sam is just a regular dude in a bird costume who (rightly) takes up the Captain America mantle and still kicks ass.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 27, 2021, 07:39:04 PM
My "earned, not awarded" comment was in regards to Sam getting the mantle of Captain America and the Shield that he earned, was given and then passed on, instead of US Agent being awarded the title whether the U.S Gov wants us to think he "earned" it or not.

Quote
It pays to be the White Panther.

"It's the White Wolf" - Bucky
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 04, 2021, 07:19:56 PM
Is it my TV or did that third episode of Falcon and Winter soldier have the worst lighting in years?

I had to set my brightness settings to their highest setting and everyone still looked like outlines.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 04, 2021, 08:51:31 PM
I heard certain LG TVs kept dimming the show. So it might be your TV... 🤷🏿‍♂️
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Stratos on April 05, 2021, 12:45:26 AM
Is it my TV or did that third episode of Falcon and Winter soldier have the worst lighting in years?

I had to set my brightness settings to their highest setting and everyone still looked like outlines.

I watched the final season of Game of Thrones. This episode was not too dark  ;D :D
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 05, 2021, 01:40:48 AM
I have a TCL TV.

Is it my TV or did that third episode of Falcon and Winter soldier have the worst lighting in years?

I had to set my brightness settings to their highest setting and everyone still looked like outlines.

I watched the final season of Game of Thrones. This episode was not too dark  ;D :D

That episode was 2 years ago now. That was the last time. At least that made sense from a plot standpoint. The Long Night was a remake of Army of Darkness.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Stratos on April 05, 2021, 06:02:06 AM
I have a TCL TV.

Is it my TV or did that third episode of Falcon and Winter soldier have the worst lighting in years?

I had to set my brightness settings to their highest setting and everyone still looked like outlines.

I watched the final season of Game of Thrones. This episode was not too dark  ;D :D

That episode was 2 years ago now. That was the last time. At least that made sense from a plot standpoint. The Long Night was a remake of Army of Darkness.

I would strongly disagree on it making sense as there were plenty of films and shows that show night scenes perfectly fine. But I digress; I didn't notice any issues with the episode being too dark and we watched it on our older TV that doesn't always get the color right on part of the screen so we would have noticed it. I'm thinking it was your TV?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 11, 2021, 04:57:27 PM
I'm having a difficult time buying the characterization in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier.

Everyone is so cold toward Zemo. Fair because *broadly gestures at his list of crimes* and especially with Barnes for the whole framing/Winter Soldier trigger words thing.

My problem though is when Sam Wilson defended and even related to Karli Morganthau. She blew up a building full of people and murdered a bunch of others before that. I understand her motivation. Morganthau and the Flag Smashers have a bone to pick with the Global Repatriation Council, a group they feel focused more on those who returned from The Blip than those who had to live through it. The Flag Smashers feel they have been ignored and displaced. Okay, fine. That sucks. I get it, all the murdering less so.

What I don't get is how an egregious amount of people in this version of Earth including and especially the Avengers themselves have ignored that the Avenger's own actions directly led to Zemo's revenge. Let's review: Stark and Banner created Ultron who proceeded to create hundreds of copies of itself to devastate an entire country in order to destroy the planet resulting in the deaths of thousands of Sokovian citizens including Zemo's family. Sure, the Avengers stopped Ultron, but then they just fucked off and the only consequences they faced for unleashing hundreds of hyper-intelligent kill-bots was the creation of the Sokovian Accords that half of them refused to sign.

This stems from the Wandavision discussion. The Avengers have committed a ton of (sometimes indefensible) crimes, and I've been ignoring/avoiding them. However, I'm getting frustrated by the lack of narrative consistency. I don't understand the line they're drawing between Morganthau and Zemo. Was there any evidence that Zemo was especially villainous before the Avengers fucked his homeland? Y'all destroyed this man's life yet are seemingly baffled when he decided he's sick of your elitist, no-consequence-having selves.

I don't want this to come off as Zemo-did-nothing-wrong because he absolutely did (i.e. bombed the United Nations resulting in the deaths of dozens including King T'Chaka, torture etc. etc). He had a point; he just shouldn't be blowing **** up. However, this show is making the same argument for Morganthau yet the heroes seem okay with it. They're still trying to stop her, but they're more understanding of her plight than Zemo's. What is the difference?

My understanding is Zemo wasn't blipped (or did I miss something?). He sat in prison that entire time, post-Blip would be like seven to eight years. I have doubts that a man as intelligent, resourceful, and well-trained as Zemo couldn't have escaped and disappeared if he wanted to. Dude was going to kill himself yet he accepted his punishment for the evil he wrought. He even apologized to T'Chala and Barnes. Comparatively, we know Rogers, Wilson, Romanov, Sharon Carter etc. ALL went on the run instead of facing consequences after the events of Captain America: Civil War. I don't believe Marvel is doing an especially good job of portraying Zemo as any more villainous than the heroes. Maybe that's the point?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 12, 2021, 01:19:15 AM
The difference was they were the target of Zemo's plight?

And don't forget that Sam was reasoning and connecting with her, because not only does he understand where she's coming from, but he was a counselor, and was also trying to get more info out of her. Such as the location of the rest of the NuSS serum. That was until #NotMyCaptain burst in and blew the the whole fact finding mission with his whole "I'm the Captain Now" BS.

also, Zemo used to be part of some sort of Kill Squad, so he wasn't a boy scout prior to his CW actions.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 12, 2021, 02:06:06 AM
I have a TCL TV.

Is it my TV or did that third episode of Falcon and Winter soldier have the worst lighting in years?

I had to set my brightness settings to their highest setting and everyone still looked like outlines.

I watched the final season of Game of Thrones. This episode was not too dark  ;D :D

That episode was 2 years ago now. That was the last time. At least that made sense from a plot standpoint. The Long Night was a remake of Army of Darkness.

I would strongly disagree on it making sense as there were plenty of films and shows that show night scenes perfectly fine. But I digress; I didn't notice any issues with the episode being too dark and we watched it on our older TV that doesn't always get the color right on part of the screen so we would have noticed it. I'm thinking it was your TV?

The episode looks fine on my other TV. The TV it looked too dark on is a newer 4k TV, but you couldn't see skin highlights. The only person on the show you could see clearly was Zemo because he's a snow beast. Sebastian Stan was hard to see. On my older tv, which Red is burning out, everything looks fine. So, it is the TV. We only got the TV summer of 2019. My mom is probably burning it out. She sleeps in the living room with the TV on all night. Maybe I can **** with the settings to get looking better. It seems to have pretty limited options. Nothing like my 2003 Sanyo Trueflat 24 inch 480i TV has.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 12, 2021, 02:42:29 AM
The difference was they were the target of Zemo's plight?
Yeah. That's part of my problem though. It makes the Avengers hypocrites. If your kill-bots destroyed an entire country, the least you can do is stay a while and fix some ****. According to Zemo in that awesome scene with Black Panther, the Avengers left the country in the state it was in. We don't know exactly what happened to Sokovia post-Age of Ultron, but it's probably safe to assume its entire socio-economic infrastructure collapsed and thousands of people died. None of the Avengers answered for that. Who watches the watchmen?
Quote
And don't forget that Sam was reasoning and connecting with her, because not only does he understand where she's coming from, but he was a counselor, and was also trying to get more info out of her. Such as the location of the rest of the NuSS serum. That was until #NotMyCaptain burst in and blew the the whole fact finding mission with his whole "I'm the Captain Now" BS.
Understood, and that's also part of my problem. Wilson is a counselor yet he can't connect and empathize with a man whose family was killed and country destroyed as a direct result of the Avengers' negligence. Stark was willing to kill Barnes and go through Rogers to do so.
Quote
also, Zemo used to be part of some sort of Kill Squad, so he wasn't a boy scout prior to his CW actions.
No one is arguing that. Zemo was a colonel in the Sokovian army and commander of EKO Scorpion, aforementioned death squad. We don't have any details of what they actually did. Was EKO Scorpion killing bad people? The very first scene of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier showed Wilson kill a bunch of bad people.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: UncleBob on April 12, 2021, 09:35:41 AM
Was Sam trying to talk Karli down in an attempt to befriend her and planning on letting her and her pals go if they promised to be good, or was the plan to talk her down and get her to turn herself in?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 12, 2021, 01:16:57 PM
Disjointed response to earlier post...

I would also like to think that it's not the Avengers job to stick around after a mission to do clean up. The Avengers are commissioned by SHIELD, so I would assume that the Gov (or whatever agency that took their place) would then be responsible for the post event participation, whatever that may entail.

I can see how blaming the Avengers is what makes sense, as they are the known face  (and in many ways, the cause of lots of the destruction), to those that were there, but I have to think they have a squad that does show up that they just haven't gone into detail about yet.

There was that Gov crew that came in on Spider-man: Homecoming, and it's they were the same "Damage Control" that almost got a sitcom on ABC, then that's probably the spearhead of the cleanup crew.

Speaking of which, I think it would be awesome if Feige would bring back "One Shots" but do it after event movies and have it be Damage Control don't cleanup. There's gotta be lots of comedic and dramatic opportunities in those situations to expand on the snake moments of the MCU.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 12, 2021, 08:00:24 PM
Was Sam trying to talk Karli down in an attempt to befriend her and planning on letting her and her pals go if they promised to be good, or was the plan to talk her down and get her to turn herself in?
The latter, but that's beside the point. Scenes from an earlier episode about the Wilson family possibly losing the house/the flustercuck at the bank are meant to illustrate that Sam does legitimately relate to The Flag Smashers' feelings of displacement, rather than merely saying he does in an attempt to talk them down. The writers are trying to get the audience to view Morganthau and co. in a more sympathetic light. I don't think they get there.

This reminds me of that weird scene at the end of Wandavision with Monica and Wanda. I get what the writers were angling for, but it didn't work for me. We're meant to sympathize with Wanda at least a little bit. I was mostly stunned at how easily Monica shrugged off Wanda's actions.

As the good guys, coldness towards a man like Zemo who caused so much destruction makes sense. However, that is juxtaposed with even a hint of warmth and understanding toward a young woman like Morganthau who similarly caused so much destruction. To me, that's inconsistent characterization.
I would also like to think that it's not the Avengers job to stick around after a mission to do clean up. The Avengers are commissioned by SHIELD, so I would assume that the Gov (or whatever agency that took their place) would then be responsible for the post event participation, whatever that may entail.

I can see how blaming the Avengers is what makes sense, as they are the known face  (and in many ways, the cause of lots of the destruction), to those that were there, but I have to think they have a squad that does show up that they just haven't gone into detail about yet.
It isn't so much that the Avengers are a known face as it is they're objectively directly responsible. Age of Ultron was the first time the Avengers created the problem they had to fix. Sokovia sure could have used Stark and Banner's genius, resources, and technology.

Also, the Avengers are supposed to be the good guys. Isn't the expectation that they do things because it's the right thing to do, not because it's their job?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 16, 2021, 04:55:33 PM
I haven't watched Ep5 yet, but wanted to point out this moment of insight from Ep4 real quick

https://twitter.com/MarcFaletti/status/1381596803615842305?s=20

https://twitter.com/lunamoki/status/1381631304723206147?s=20

Just one level deeper than what I realized was being presented.
I just didn't take it quite that far in my head, but to expose that layer to the sun just makes the scene all that much better.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2021, 05:17:28 PM
I didn’t catch that at all, but damn, that’s about right.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on April 16, 2021, 05:24:17 PM
Damn - episode 5 is a cracker.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2021, 05:26:18 PM
Damn - episode 5 is a cracker.
Because it’s a good episode or all the white privilege? Both?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2021, 08:22:17 PM
Yeah, that was probably the best episode so far.

My favorite scene was the conversation between Sam and Isaiah. The MCU needs more scenes where the action slows and the actors can act.

Sam and Bucky beating up Captain 'Murica was so satisfying. That dingus thinks he can make a shield out of scrap metal. Walker is the goddamn worst.

Bucky is totally going to **** Sam's sister. He's got that MILF-fever. Time to take this rivalry to the next level and assert dominance.

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier without context:
(https://i.ibb.co/3NLYBps/shakeee.jpg)

Sam got his own Crossfit montage. I still feel like his arm would get at least dislocated trying to catch the shield. Also, it seemed pretty irresponsible to be tossing that frisbee around in front of the house.

The writers are trying really hard to show Sharon Carter as having ulterior motives. I started to think she was the Power Broker when they walked into her condo dealie. It feels too obvious. Now that Elaine Benes debuted, maybe it's her? I've seen some other names floated around like Kingpin. If you're going to go nuts with fan theories, go nuts. It's Dr. Doom. Nah, the Power Broker is obviously Mephisto.

I really hope this isn't it for Zemo because he was largely useless. I don't think the plot necessarily needed him to get Sam and Bucky to Madripoor. Also, it's weird that the Dora Milaje would just be okay sending Zemo to a United States prison particularly one Captain America broke into and spring four inmates out of. Granted, not everyone is Steve Rogers, but I feel like Zemo can probably break out of there or can be broken out of there (if he wanted). I don't think he does, but no one in this world seems to acknowledge this. If the Dora Milaje really want justice for the murder of their king, maybe lock the man responsible up in a Wakandan prison. Is there any way he's getting out of there? Wakandan technology > Zemo's resources.

So far, I'm conflicted on the handling of Zemo's character. We have all of these heroes constantly breaking the law for some really heinous ****, and yet the only person who has accepted punishment is Zemo. He could have kept trying to kill himself after the events of Civil War, but the living aren't done with him yet etc. etc. Over the course of seven years, he could have escaped considering how easy that looked in episode 3. In the episode 4, Zemo escapes (pretty easily too), and he goes to the one place he knows he'll be found. That isn't bad writing. In fact, it makes me want more. His characterization is really consistent: he has a code, and he's mostly sick of superhero nonsense. They cost him his family and his country. Zemo also isn't without reason. He knows he broke the law to further his ****-superheroes agenda, and he lives with the consequences. While he's an intriguing character, maybe there's nothing more to say about him. He's nothing like his comic book counterpart. At the very least, I would like anyone to acknowledge that the Avengers really fucked him.

Without the benefit of having seen the final episode, right now it doesn't feel like the show was long enough. The Flag Smashers, John Walker, Elaine Benes, and possibly Sharon Carter all needed more time. The Flag Smashers aren't wrong per se, their methods are. I'm not sure how the writers want people to feel about them. Are they sympathetic, or merely terrorists?

Walker needed more of a descent considering the direction the show seems to be headed with the character. Marvel has the same problem with most of its villains: they lack depth the usually die before we really get a chance know anything about them. Here, we have more time with the episodic format yet Walker's character still feels hollow.

I presume Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine was more than stunt-casting. I'm so glad I didn't look up the cast list like I did with Wandavision. The surprise was nice. My expectation is she will play an important role at some point in the MCU even if there isn't another season of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

All this mystery surrounding Sharon Carter better not be a waste of time.

I'm here for Sam zooming around in vibranium armor. Can it just be next Friday already?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 16, 2021, 10:07:58 PM
Damn - episode 5 is a cracker.
Because it’s a good episode or all the white privilege? Both?

🤣🤣🤣

I still haven't watched it yet, but now I'm expecting both, with all the viciousness yet none of the subtleness of being removed like on the previous episode.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 17, 2021, 12:04:31 AM
I haven't watched Ep5 yet, but wanted to point out this moment of insight from Ep4 real quick

https://twitter.com/MarcFaletti/status/1381596803615842305?s=20

https://twitter.com/lunamoki/status/1381631304723206147?s=20

Just one level deeper than what I realized was being presented.
I just didn't take it quite that far in my head, but to expose that layer to the sun just makes the scene all that much better.
I watched these again as well as the scene in question. Some of the details are at least debatable in the first link.

Kristine Kippins' take on Bucky is perhaps too cynical for what was intended and what the text supports. First, personally, I feel that when you gift something, you no longer have claim to that item. The Wakandans gave Bucky that new arm so that is his arm, and he's correct to view it as part of him. Granted, it was also totally fair game for Ayo to literally disarm Bucky (the best offense is good defense) though I get the counterpoint that doing so was still fucked up because the Wakandans know Bucky was a slave who had no agency for decades and did not consent to the use of his body by Hydra yet for even a moment, Ayo took away that agency again. That said, I didn't see Bucky's white privilege in that scene in particular. That isn't to say it isn't there. In episode 2, Sam was racial profiled by the police officers and in the same scene, they peacefully took Bucky into custody. Then, in episode 5, Bucky admitted to Sam that he "didn't understand what it felt like for a black man to be handed the shield." That isn't aggressive white privilege, but it's still white privilege.

Second, Bucky and Sam did not immediately get involved. And it should be noted that Bucky didn't intervene until Sam suggested they do (when the fight started getting out of hand). Bucky also never even attacked Ayo; he literally only dodged. When Ayo removed the arm, I didn't see it as Bucky with fear in his eyes or "[having] the nerve to look betrayed". It was more shock than anything, like "holy ****, that can happen?"

However, I mostly agree with Kippins' take on John Walker. He clearly represents white privilege. The powers that be dubbed him the new Captain America without understanding what Steve Rogers stood for. They just picked another blond, white dude who served in the Army. Rogers is supposed to represent the best of American values while Walker uses a shield he didn't earn and doesn't deserve or represent.

Where I disagree with Kippins' on Walker is regarding the shield. He doesn't think of that shield as coming from Wakanda because as far as we know, it didn't. We don't know where old man Steve got the shield he gave to Sam. If it's supposed to be the original, we don't know where Howard Stark got the vibranium for it. I think T'Challa implied that the vibranium used to create it was stolen, but how? Ulysses Klaue didn't infiltrate Wakanda until 1992, and T'Challa didn't open Wakanda's borders until 2016. Occam's razor: when a giant meteor crash lands on Earth, there's bound to be debris falling off it.

I'm all in on the second link. All of it makes sense. I read Bucky's expression more as surprise and guilt (like, dude, that's literally a 10 minute phone call, AND y'all would have likely gotten help from the Wakandans) as in the second clip than the betrayal and ingratitude of the first.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 17, 2021, 06:01:25 PM
I believe the Bucky arm moment was a mix of emotions that fit all the descriptions.
Fear in that he just lost his left arm/vibranium shield, and feeling a defenseless in a fight
Shock/Surprise, in that he wasn't aware they could do that
Betrayal, that they would have incorporated a fail safe as such against him (think how the Justice League felt when they found out Batman had a literal contingency plan for each and everyone of them, so far as Kryptonite bullets or such for Superman).
and with that betraying thought, has to be followed by the guilt of betraying the Wakandan trust.
By which they demonstrated that they gave him that arm, but they can just as easily take it back. Which is a fear, shock/surprise, "betrayal" and guilt all at once.

He fucked up, and he realized it in that moment. This is resolved by him making amends at the end of Ep5 by handing Zemo back to the Wakandans so they can do with him as they please.
Although I do find it odd to send Zemo to the Raft, instead of imprison him in Wakanda.
But I guess this will make it easier for Thunderbolt Ross to get access to him and recruit him to a new team.


As for the Shield.... the Meteorite crashed in Wakanda, and they were the only known place to find that rare precious metal. Klaue wasn't the only raider of Wakandan lands in search of Vibranium, and certainly not the first to possibly successfully obtain some against Wakandan will.
Let's just go with the assumption that however Stark obtained the Vibranium, it was originally stolen from Wakanda before making it to his lab. They just chose not to make an incident out of it just to retrieve such a small amount 70+ years ago.
As for Walker thinking the Shield is his? Of course he does. Like she said, he think it originated from Captain America, and is the symbol of an American Hero. He thinks he earned it and ascended to face of the American Hero who that shield represents.
I see no reason as to why he would be briefed to it's origin or how the materials it contains was originally obtained. Just that this is the Shield of Capt. America, it's made of a rare bullet proof metal, defies logic, and will always bounce back to you.
But he's wrong. It isn't his. He didn't earn it. and that shield represents more than just the "heroic" face of the US Military's covert action figure who gets to act w/ impunity and jurisdiction around the world.

I'm glad he got his ass handed to him by the Dora Milajae and then Bucky and Falcon.

and I bet Falcons new Vibranium Wing Suit is gonna be BADASS BTW.
I wonder what Red Wing will be like w/ Wakandan tech behind it.


edit: I just remembered that Steve's Alt-Timeline Shield is what was given to Sam, as the Prime-Timeline shield was destroyed by Thanos. But I'll just assume all timelines were identical up to the point where Cap exited Alt-Timeline w/ their shield, meaning it's partially stolen vibranium and other rare blends of metal not yet mentioned.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 18, 2021, 07:43:29 PM
Betrayal, that they would have incorporated a fail safe as such against him (think how the Justice League felt when they found out Batman had a literal contingency plan for each and everyone of them, so far as Kryptonite bullets or such for Superman).
If anything, I'd expect Bucky to completely understand the point of a failsafe since he was a hypnotically controlled assassin for like 70 years. In fact, during the flashback at the beginning of episode 3, he had misgivings about Ayo using the Winter Soldier trigger words. That said, I don't think the text supports this take on Bucky.

More importantly, is it a failsafe, or simply expected/good engineering? Most advanced electronics/machinery is designed to be able to be disassembled for updates, repair, and modification. When the original Hydra arm is blown off by Tony Stark, it's just broken. The Wakandan arm has a socket so it seems more like a feature. Ayo doesn't render it unusable because Bucky just plugs the arm back in. If it was a failsafe, the arm wouldn't work anymore since it isn't useful for anyone except Bucky.

On second thought, I don't know why Bucky states didn't know the arm be can removed. Infinity War doesn't really support this as T'Challa presented Bucky with only the arm so he either already had the socket or the Wakandans had to surgically implant it right after. Either way, Bucky should know. That's either a retcon or the writers forgot about that scene.

I could have seen it as more as betrayal if Ayo just went, "Yoink!" then fucked off with the arm.
Quote
and with that betraying thought, has to be followed by the guilt of betraying the Wakandan trust.
Honestly, this is probably just bad or at best, negligent writing. Much of the plot wouldn't work if Bucky just dialed up Wakanda and told them they need Zemo to track down the Flag Smashers. Wakanda would likely help them too considering T'Challa's speech in the mid-credits scene of Black Panther.
Quote
As for the Shield.... the Meteorite crashed in Wakanda, and they were the only known place to find that rare precious metal. Klaue wasn't the only raider of Wakandan lands in search of Vibranium, and certainly not the first to possibly successfully obtain some against Wakandan will.
Does the text support this? I'll have to rewatch the relevant movies because I honestly don't remember. I was under the impression that the world thought Wakanda was a poor, farming country until 2016, and that Klaue only knew about vibranium because N'Jobu told him.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 18, 2021, 09:27:22 PM
I'd have to go back through the movies, but I'm sure Klaue found out about vibranium the same way a previous thief would. It's a leap of logic, but not a large one.

Wakanda is the only known place to have vibranium.
Howard Stark somehow got vibranium.
Wakandans have been interacting with the outside world for many many decades, so for them to have slipped some out for money or some other outside world riches is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 18, 2021, 10:25:17 PM
I'd have to go back through the movies, but I'm sure Klaue found out about vibranium the same way a previous thief would. It's a leap of logic, but not a large one.
But is it a smaller one than a piece of a giant meteorite broke off and landed literally anywhere else on Earth?
Quote
Wakanda is the only known place to have vibranium.
Howard Stark somehow got vibranium.
Wakandans have been interacting with the outside world for many many decades, so for them to have slipped some out for money or some other outside world riches is a perfectly reasonable assumption to make.
Wakanda is the only known place to have a stockpile of vibranium.

Sure, Howard Stark had vibranium somehow. If he stole it, that'd be a bigger deal to Wakanda, and I also doubt a man like Howard Stark would keep Wakanda a secret. A story for another time, I guess. Prince N'Jobu betrayed Wakanda by telling Klaue where the vibranium was and how to strike. The implication is no one just strolls into Wakanda and steals vibranium.

How often and to what capacity? The text of Black Panther is that they were an isolationist farming nation.

I disagree with the assumption though. Why would the most technologically advanced country need to sell one of the rarest, most valuable substances on Earth for money? They have everything they need because of vibranium.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 18, 2021, 11:27:31 PM
I'm not suggesting the Nation of Wakanda sold or shipped out anything.

I'm suggesting, just like N'Jobu, who was trying to make a life for himself outside of Wakanda duties, a previous "scout/missionary" to the outside world, may have been similarly looking to make their own footprint and used knowledge of or secret access to some Vibranium to create their freedom from the will of Wakanda while living independently on the outside.

I would assume Howard Stark came across this through means which may not have informed him of anything about Wakanda.... on the other hand, he also worked closely with the creation of SHIELD, so he may have know where it came from, and smartly just kept his mouth shut as to not cause an public or international incident.

all speculative assumptions though. It's just as likely that maybe a small fragment was discovered outside of Wakanda as well, but I don't think it's been stated either way. Someone gotta question Feige at the next ComiCon or Red Carpet. we need answers.

Maybe Feige can make Agent Carter S3 and S4 on D+ and give us some much needed answers.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 19, 2021, 08:24:02 AM
A giant meteor struck Wakanda in ancient times. It is possible small meteors struck other parts of the Earth. Or maybe the shield is what they could gather from worldwide dust debris. I'd be more curious about where Dr. Erksine got the secret recipe for the super serum?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 19, 2021, 09:36:37 AM
There was a fan theory going around a few years ago that Erskine’s serum was derived from the heart-shaped herb. The main problem with that theory is where Erskine got the herb if it’s only grown in that garden in Wakanda.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 20, 2021, 05:27:36 PM
Maybe he was aware of it, did some 1940s biochemistry stuff, he had access to vibranium. Maybe vibranium is the key. It's such a rare element on Earth, that could be why the serum has been so hard to reproduce.

I hope Feige finds it in his heart to do something with some Netflix MCU characters. Charlie Cox has mostly taken a break, it'd be great to see Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and Luke Cage to return. Even just for cameos.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 20, 2021, 05:42:00 PM
well, there are rumors of Charlie Cox showing up as Daredevil in Spider-man, and possibly D'Onofrio coming back as Kingpin to a D+ series (Armor Wars I think).

I'm not holding my breath for either, but both of those would be nice.
Hate to drag most of the the rest of the baggage Netflix along if that's the case though.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 23, 2021, 02:07:09 PM
Episode 6 was good, notably weaker than the previous episode. I don't want to write a big, long thing because no one reads those so here are some quick thoughts:

No issues with a black Captain America. Rather, I'm having trouble suspending disbelief because Sam is a regular, non-powered hero. When he got whipped into concrete tubes by a helicopter, I wondered why/how he was still alive.

John Walker is Steve Rogers' Wario.

"That's the Black Falcon there! I tell ya." / "Nah, that's Captain America!" is probably the worst bit of dialog in the entire show. Not needed, too on-the-nose.

"You don't think Lemar's life mattered?" is similarly bad dialog. I get it; I know what they're doing, and I didn't like it. The show tackled the topic of race really well that I felt invoking Black Lives Matter was unnecessary. It reminded me of when Coulson said "Fake news" in that one episode of Agents of Shield.

Sam's speech/lecture to the GRC in front of all those cameras was lazy writing. He isn't wrong. A big, expository dump is almost always the wrong choice. It felt very much like when shows wrap up "A Very Special Episode".

I liked the John Walker misdirection. I was really hoping he wouldn't do a full heel-turn. He can still be antagonistic without turning into a mustache twirling cartoon villain. Valentina calling him "U.S. Agent" could have been more subtle.

Sharon Carter as the Power Broker was a letdown. The writers leaned into it so hard, I was hoping they would swerve. They did not swerve.

The scene where Bucky's admitted he killed Yori's son was not as strong or emotionally resonant as I thought and wanted it to be. 🤷‍♀️
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: UncleBob on April 24, 2021, 12:36:11 AM
Yeah, I loved the series, but "subtle" was not in the writer's bag o' tricks.

I was angry at the end when they called Sharon "Agent Carter".  Come on, Disney.  You know we want Agent Carter Season 3.  Like, too soon man.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 24, 2021, 02:58:14 AM
I thought it was good.

to touch on points above, I thought Sam was gonna be fucked when he whipped into the concrete tubes, but I think he had his Shield on his back, and that should protect him.

What I was a little disappointed to not find out, is if since the Wakandans made the Falcon suit, is it made of Vibranium? Would he have been bullet proof had he actually been shot by Karli? I really wanted Karli to get that shot off, and Sam to think he got shot, only to find out it did no damage.

As for the speech, well, there was no other opportunity or better time to just lay the point out there bare and undressed for the masses to consume. Now no one has to ask "did you get it" as it was not subtle and hinted at what the point.

Bucky's resolution certainly did not hit with the emotional note I think they were hoping for, but Sam's resolution for Isiah Brandley did hit much harder. Not quite a tear up moment, but the feels were there.

Sharon as the Power Broker..... ehhh, we'll see where it goes. At least if gives her something more to do than be a background character that's just there.

But I do like how in the end, everyone got what they wanted.
Karli's task was fulfilled.
Zemo got rid of the super soldiers (minus US Agent)
Bucky finished his book and got Sam to be Capt America
and Sam did good by Cap, Isiah, Bucky, his family, Karli, and himself.

and apparently this is in line for a potential sequel season, and the title card was the announcement of a Captain America movie sequel as well, helmed by the same showrunner as the show.

So I'm excited we get to see more.
I hope they tighten up Sam's suit for the next outing though. it seemed a little puffy in the front, and I don't really like the neck, half head cloth.

edit: I just really wish they didn't remove the Pandemic storyline, as that was mostly tied to the Flagsmasher and their cause. I'm sure the sympathy towards Karli and her cause would've landed a bit better had they not retooled the show to remove the connections due to the COVID situation.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Plugabugz on April 26, 2021, 03:02:23 PM
So John Walker kills a man in an international country, which should be a MASSIVE diplomatic incident (the Black Panther storyline through Civil War and BP1)... not to mention all the bad social media presence that would cause. We saw the Dora Milaje track down Zemo and explicitly say "we have jurisdiction where we say we have it".... but John just walked off after episode 6 like nobody noticed him or knew who he was.

That stuck out a lot to me.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 26, 2021, 03:30:51 PM
I think for the most part Marvel shouldn't kill the villains. I think they should mostly escape.

I really with they hadn't killed Killmonger.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: UncleBob on April 26, 2021, 07:55:58 PM
So John Walker kills a man in an international country, which should be a MASSIVE diplomatic incident (the Black Panther storyline through Civil War and BP1)... not to mention all the bad social media presence that would cause. We saw the Dora Milaje track down Zemo and explicitly say "we have jurisdiction where we say we have it".... but John just walked off after episode 6 like nobody noticed him or knew who he was.

That stuck out a lot to me.

I mean, he killed a terrorist.

I'm not saying what he did was okay.  But what he did is what America does all the time.  Freaking presidents bomb weddings and kill kids while wearing their Nobel Peace Prize.

This shouldn't shock you or anyone in the International community.

I find Wanda's actions and lack of repercussions more shocking than Walker's.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 26, 2021, 11:11:27 PM
I knew who John Walker was going to be because I used to collect Marvel cards. I'm like oh, it's US agent.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: nickmitch on April 27, 2021, 07:40:09 PM
I binged the whole thing the day the last episode dropped.  Loved it.

John Walker's character was pretty good.  I liked that you first see him as the ~new~ Captain America, and it makes you immediately dislike him.  Then you get a bit of his background and he comes off as somewhat redeemable or just a guy trying to do his job.  Then, when you see him in action, he comes off as a total tool.  After that, the entitled prick comes out.  By the end, it seems like he wants to do right or at least be told what he's doing is right.  We know he has anger issues, which might be amplified by the super soldier serum.  At least there's a great starting point for a Dark Avengers.

Speaking of not-my-Captain America, I think the context of him killing the guy made sense.  He did brutally murdered a surrendering foreign national, on camera, in full attire, on an unauthorized mission.  We see Sam definitely kill a few dudes in the opening scene, but at least they weren't begging for their lives.

As for the lead terrorist, I get the idea.  But the writers really put themselves in a corner trying to make her empathetic.  Morgenthau blowing up a building with people in it isn't some minor slip into the dark side the show tried to make it out to be and neither was torching a van with people in it.  They also were a bit too vague with the Flag Smashers' goal and objectives.  I get that they cut out a pandemic plotline, but what they left didn't quite work either because it was just too vague.  And Morgenthau saying she only wants to kill people that matter was a pretty weak way of making her seem reluctant or even remorseful about killing anyone.

Sam's arc was good for me.  I liked that they brought in Isaiah Bradley in for it.  Sam was a bit too "both sides-y" for me at times, but it worked.  Seeing Bucky open up in front of him the first time was pretty cool, and I wish Sam could've had a moment where he opened up to Bucky instead of Bucky saying to him "I didn't know what it'd be like for a black man to take the shield".  His final speech was way too long, but still good.  More quotables, less filler next time.  I also really liked his final costume; it felt very true-to-the-comics.

Speaking of Bucky, is he still gonna be the Winter Soldier?  Is that a title he even wants?

Other people: Zemo was cool.  Could use more Zemo going forward.  The "Double Agent" Carter twist was way too obvious, and just got more obvious the more she was on screen or even mentioned.  Can't wait to see more MCU Elaine.  Also, MCU Patriot when????
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 27, 2021, 07:59:02 PM
MCU Patriot, and Falcon (jr)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 28, 2021, 03:44:39 AM
I wonder if there will ever be a plot that John Walker is one of Ego's sons?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 29, 2021, 12:30:50 AM
I like Bucky's name, White Wolf.  They could have named the series The Falcon and the Wolf. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 29, 2021, 11:28:12 AM
At the very least, the title card at the end should have read “Captain America and the White Wolf” or something decidedly not “the Winter Soldier” because Bucky’s entire arc is about making amends for the harm he caused as the Winter Soldier so doubtful he wants that designation.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2021, 04:31:01 PM
in context of the show....

Black Falcon and the White Wolf


actually what should've happened was it should have typed out Black Falcon and The Winter Soldier
then someone starts hitting the backspace button to erase the entire title card.
then they type out Captain Falcon.... then hit the backspace some more to erase Falcon.
then out Captain America and The White Sold..... backspace backspace backspace.... Wolf

then the complete title card enlarges to say
Captain America and The White Wolf
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: ThePerm on April 29, 2021, 06:16:29 PM
I hope Chadwick Boseman told the studio what was going on with him. If I were a studio I'd make every actor film a death scene and a goodbye scene. Especially if I were Disney after Carrie Fisher died in the middle of Star Wars. Or Warner after Heath Ledger overdosed. That would be a top policy. I'm sure nobody would really want to film these sort of scenes, but in giant franchises these seem so necessary.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 29, 2021, 10:17:49 PM
Boseman apparently told no one outside his immediate circle anything.

And with technology as it is today, if Disney wanted to film Black Panther 2 Starring Boseman w/o the mask the entire time, they could make it believable enough.

The internet edits of Carrie fisher were better than the Million dollar studio jobs.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 30, 2021, 12:29:56 AM
in context of the show....

Black Falcon and the White Wolf


actually what should've happened was it should have typed out Black Falcon and The Winter Soldier
then someone starts hitting the backspace button to erase the entire title card.
then they type out Captain Falcon.... then hit the backspace some more to erase Falcon.
then out Captain America and The White Sold..... backspace backspace backspace.... Wolf

then the complete title card enlarges to say
Captain America and The White Wolf

I like this.  They could have done it as a mystery...some government worker is typing up this report of the past events and the Title of the report could have been Black Falcon and the Winter Soldier report, and after writing up the report they scroll up on the type writer and backspace to change the title.  The report could be pulled and it could have had a SWORD letterhead or something.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 30, 2021, 12:32:27 AM
Boseman didn't want to be defined by his illness.  He fought it and kept it a secret.  I am curious who knew and when, but it doesn't matter.  I would have recast Black Panther and dedicated the next movie to him.  And move on.  Not allowing the franchise to have the Black Panther character and move on is a mistake.  A mistake a respect, but still a mistake.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on April 30, 2021, 12:48:29 AM
I was under the impression that Marvel will write out T’Challa and continue with the Black Panther character. Maybe another character takes up the mantle. I’m on Team Recast. It’s sad that Boseman died, but T’Challa is too important culturally to tie the character to the actor who played him. I’m sure Marvel had its reasons.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: nickmitch on April 30, 2021, 02:05:25 AM
I think those of use who would rather see a recast would understand if they didn't, but people who didn't want a recast would be offended.  They may shoot themselves in the foot creatively (at least a little bit), but they'll upset the fewest people.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 30, 2021, 10:48:10 AM
well this seems appropriately timed....
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/lupita-nyongo-super-sema-youtube-black-panther-2-chadwick-boseman-150021866.html

Lupita comments on the filming of BP2 w/o Boseman
Quote
the way which he [Coogler] has reshaped the second movie is so respectful of the loss we’ve all experienced as a cast and as a world. So it feels spiritually and emotionally correct to do this.

Very curious to see how they proceed. But Black Panther is the Title of the Wearer, T'Challa was just one of many Black Panthers. We can move on w/o recasting. We just need another prominant black actor to take his place and carry that mantle as King of Wakanda and Black Panther.

Maybe they saved Killmonger, who changes his ways. Maybe something happened and a Wakanda experiment went wrong and fused T'Challa and Killmonger into one, but kept the appearance of Killmonger, so that explains the fundamental change of Killmonger's M.O.

Could be another long lost brother, a cousin, or an existing character who takes over.

Whatever they do, I'm sure it'll be fine, even if it's not what most of us would have wanted. They'll make it work.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 30, 2021, 01:18:51 PM
Maybe they saved Killmonger, who changes his ways.

I think this would be the best route if they wont recast.  Killmonger was popular and many sympathized with him.  Having a redemption story where he's trying to make up for his wrongs could be pretty powerful.

Plus his death is very easy to retcon since T'Challa does tell him he can be saved before Killmonger pulls the dagger out to bleed to death.  They just need one line that says T'Challa got him to a medical team at the right moment before it was too late.  Yeah it would still be a retcon but at least it's a somewhat believable one.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 10, 2021, 12:34:12 AM
Maybe they saved Killmonger, who changes his ways.

I think this would be the best route if they wont recast.  Killmonger was popular and many sympathized with him.  Having a redemption story where he's trying to make up for his wrongs could be pretty powerful.

Plus his death is very easy to retcon since T'Challa does tell him he can be saved before Killmonger pulls the dagger out to bleed to death.  They just need one line that says T'Challa got him to a medical team at the right moment before it was too late.  Yeah it would still be a retcon but at least it's a somewhat believable one.

This right here would be the coolest idea.  You can have the opening Title Screen and opening credits be Killmonger at the Gravesite of T'Challa.  He is making his peace with a monologue teaching us how he survived AND how he wants to make amends.  He becomes the Black Panther, but renounces the leadership of King.  Now you Wakanda in a new place.  Changing with the times and you have a more interesting morally gray Black Panther that is trying to be a better person and make peace with his past.  While at the same time, facing a world that is ever showing him, that although his ultimate goal was wrong, his view and understanding of the problems of the world was and is still correct. 

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Stratos on May 24, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
It could also lead to some interesting dynamic where Killmonger is angry at T'Challa for basically breaking his final promise to him and has to work through those feelings as part of his ongoing development.

Also, it was unclear if they had anymore of the flower seeds that gave the Black Panther powers, and if Killmonger was saved, he could be one of the only people left alive with the power with T'Challa no longer in the picture, which could open the door for Wakandan leadership releasing him and possibly giving him a second chance.

We could also see Wakanda move to a more democratic government without a proper king so they basically keep Killmonger from being a leader but he retains the Panther powers and suit to find his new way in the world, perhaps finding a way to modify his vision to be a less violent one with a similar outcome.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2021, 02:08:59 PM
Doctor Strange and teh Multiverse of Maddness wrapped filming.

cast and crew were given a gift: Potential Character spoiler....? but we already knew about that character. I'll not post the actual pic just incase.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/366417781245214721/850395336752496731/20210604_092721.jpg

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: UncleBob on June 09, 2021, 04:06:21 PM
Spoiler for Loki Ep1

MOTHER FUCKING JOSTA.  GOD DAMNED MOTHER FUCKING GOD OF MISCHIEF IS JUST TEASING ME NOW.  NOTHER FUCKER.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Taking Flight with Falcon & the Winter Soldier)
Post by: Adrock on June 09, 2021, 09:04:57 PM
Loki Episode 1 was excellent. I really like how they used stock footage in a pretty interesting way to update 2012 Loki with 2018 Loki's character development. Stellar acting from Tom Hiddleston as he forwards through his file. EDIT: Owen Wilson is good as Agent Mobius as well. I wanted to give credit where credit is due. He has good screen chemistry with Hiddleston.

I have a ton of questions. I presume the next five episodes will answer most of them. I am a little disappointed by how short this show is especially given how good it is so far.

And obviously, another Time Variant Loki messing with the timeline is clearly misdirection. If we keep guessing Mephisto, we'll get it right eventually.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Viva Loki)
Post by: Stratos on June 10, 2021, 02:19:51 PM
Updated the title but skipping the comments until I can watch it tonight.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on June 12, 2021, 12:36:47 AM
#LokiLives!

Been saying it since Infinity War. He lives. This is the key. He now knows how he dies and avoids it later by faking his death. The end of the file is just the end of that tape, I bet you there is more tape as Loki lives on. Either he switches places with Infinity War Loki, warns his other self, or some other solution, I'm still confident Loki lives past his encounter with Thanos.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 12, 2021, 08:32:40 PM
I'm hoping for the opposite.

While I did enjoy the Loki character I think it's time for him (at least this portrayal) to be retired. I was pleased when Thanos bumped him off in Endgame. After all he is a mass murderer and I think he got off far too lightly for leading a murderous army and trying to subjugate a planet. What I did like is that the show didn't handwave this to get the most milkage of the fanbase. They brought it up front and centre and discussed it.

Having said that I am still hoping this is his last appearance in the MCU. The fact he is reportedly not in Love and Thunder lends a bit of credence to this (still won't be surprised if he turns up though). I think he's had his run and would like more time in another villain in future projects.

Am still watching this show with great interest though. Still promises to tell a very interesting story and will contribute with some significant world building.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on June 17, 2021, 10:24:35 PM
I like how they touched on the reverse butterfly effect. It's weird. They put into speech exact thoughts I've had on the subject.

Meteors, Natural Disasters, Apocalypses. These are all gigantic events that counter act the butterfly effect to some degree.  Because certain events are unavoidable then there would be an averaging effect on time over the course of history if one were to try to alter history.

I used to play this game called card game called Chrononauts, and there was a Back to the Future variant. In the game you play as different characters whose goal is to make history play out a certain way to ensure your existence. So, to make sure that you were born you had to make sure that certain "linchpin events" happened. An example of this in the BTTF version is Marty McFly, Marty McFly has to make sure that Lorraine Baines and George McFly kiss and the dance or he was just going to disappear.  In the regular version of the game you have to make sure the crash of the Hindenberg happens or the sinking of the SS Lusitania.

https://www.looneylabs.com/games/chrononauts

I like how the series is setting about to destroy the Marvel Canon which at this point has been sacrosanct. I'm ready for the Marvel Apocrypha.  Continuity has been too much of a problem. How do we get the X-men into the Marvel Universe? Simple, they exist in an alternate reality and the realities just need to be merged.

If I were to guess where the end of the series ultimately ends: The time keepers are just Loki. As In Me, Myself, and I.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 17, 2021, 11:46:33 PM
The reverse butterfly effect is cool.  But I hope that Loki doesn't "win" or if he does he realizes that winning was never what he truly wanted.  Because, his main arc is that he dooms himself.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on June 20, 2021, 12:55:07 PM
Finally watched the first two episodes.  I really liked the twist of gender-swapped Loki.  I knew they had to do something visual with the character (why else bother with the cloak when we know it's Loki) and all the visuals surrounding the explanation of variants showed visual alterations to them.

This does bring up some questions though.  There is one "Scared Timeline", so how do variants alter so much?  Like, how does Loki being out of time make him into a her?  And Mobius remarks "that's how it happens, that's how it always happens" as if the Scared Timeline occurs over and over.  This makes me think there are multiple timelines that just get steered back into the main one when they get branched off.  The show makes it seem like things get reset and the branching path never happens, but I'm not convinced that's always true.

I may also need to go back and revisit The Ancient One's time loop explanation she gave Professor Hulk in End Game.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on June 21, 2021, 12:16:44 PM
So my dad thinks this isn't really Loki but some magician/witch linked to Loki in the comics, which would explain why she was all "don't call me Loki" as she is an agent of Loki posing as him.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2021, 03:44:32 PM
If you pay attention to the credits... she isn't completely credited as Loki.

In other news there is a palette swapped version of Scarlet Witch.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 21, 2021, 08:12:33 PM
If you pay attention to the credits... she isn't completely credited as Loki.


you paid attention to the credits, and this is the spoiler thread, so what was she credited as?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on June 21, 2021, 09:29:02 PM
Oh yeah. It's the spoiler thread.
Sylvie as in Silvie (Lushton)Laufeydottir, which I guess is Marvel's 2nd Enchantress

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yAAGIoXQWcc/Tz0oojVWxgI/AAAAAAAAERQ/f0TyZ-y24Bg/s1600/B021612_witchenchantress.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on June 22, 2021, 01:29:50 PM
That's the character my Dad was talking about.

I'm also putting together that Wanda was referred to as a Nexus so is she a timeline event that could threaten the sacred timeline?

I wonder if all these shows are setting the stage for Multiverse of Madness that brings it all together on the big screen.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 22, 2021, 04:43:27 PM
#itsallconnected #forrealthistime
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on June 22, 2021, 05:21:11 PM
So I think either there are no time lords and the judge/boss gal is filling in as a ruse. Or she is in fact one of the time lords.

Also, my theory on Kang the Conqueror is that he's a control freak who thinks he is ordained to 'tend' the timeline as a sort of gardener. Then Loki/shenanigans disrupt his happy time-garden and he snaps, and decides that its best to wipe out the timeline and restart fresh, which leads into him being a new big bad for the Avengers to have to deal with.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on June 22, 2021, 10:26:46 PM
Everything is setting up for the multiverse. The Canon is becoming too limiting.

I can't wait to see Deadpool's surprise cameo in Doctor Strange 2.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 23, 2021, 02:24:32 AM
If Deadpool has a surprise Cameo that would be incredible.  I would love it.  So many fun and silly jokes they could do with the multiverse. 
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 03, 2021, 12:08:41 PM
So what's the over/under on Sylvie going back in time, pulling Loki back before he was "deleted" and then Loki saving Mobius....

hold up... I was in the middle of typing the above and then the mid Credit scene played...
nevermind. Carry on.

were there mid/post credits on any previous episodes? I don't remember see any.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: UncleBob on July 03, 2021, 06:43:34 PM
Nope.  First one (in Loki)

If you go on the Marvel Studios subreddit, the mods always sticky a reply at the top of their spoiler topic that says if there's midcredits/end credits scenes without spoiling what they are.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on July 04, 2021, 03:24:36 PM
That's good to know!

I watched the last two episodes the other day, and something told me there'd be a post-credits scene on that last episode.  It figures that Marvel wouldn't just let the episode end with Loki being deleted.

I don't wonder what's up with wherever Loki Prime landed.  Is that someplace that all deleted variants go? Or is there some trickery at play?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 06, 2021, 01:47:43 PM
Considering how much of a farce the TVA is turning out to be, I expected a twist like this.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on July 07, 2021, 05:57:44 AM
I wonder if the time stones work again at the end of time? If only Sylvie had known what was in that drawer.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 09, 2021, 01:53:05 PM
Latest episode was pretty funny. I think there's only 6 eps right?

Biggest Easter egg I can recall was the Thanos Copter, but there were certainly others in not recalling.
The war of the Loki's was pretty funny too.
Not Our Hiddleston Loki vs GatorLoki, and NOHLoki losing his hand just before the fighting started, and them all betraying each other. Good stuff.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 09, 2021, 02:45:33 PM
Its another Loki at the end of the void. Calling it now.

Would be great if it was our original Loki that 'died' in Infinity War. They've teased it enough he either lived like I always believed, or at the end of all things Loki 'returns' to his proper time and ends up doing the trick to avoid getting killed by Thanos.

#LokiLives
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: ThePerm on July 09, 2021, 05:38:29 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opKe7ijMyXg
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2021, 11:36:31 AM
I'm still holding out hope for it being Bob Iger and Deadpool at the end.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 12, 2021, 10:15:01 PM
I'm still holding out hope for it being Bob Iger and Deadpool at the end.

And Stan Lee.... Long con ultimate surprise payoff.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on July 13, 2021, 06:39:21 PM
I'm still holding out hope for it being Bob Iger and Deadpool at the end.

And Stan Lee.... Long con ultimate surprise payoff.

Lol. Just as long as the final 20 minutes are contract negotiations for future MCU appearances.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 17, 2021, 12:18:38 AM
Well...it was something a bit more substantive in many ways, and we get a season 2 of Loki. Also rumors point to Tom Hiddleston/Loki being in Multiverse of Madness so things are definitely going to get super crazy there, though we knew that already.

Anyone else happy with Loki and the other MCU D+ offerings? They have been enjoyable but a bit frustrating at the same time for me. Like they have missed some opportunities and were more setting the stage for the big movies to take and run with.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on July 17, 2021, 09:30:00 AM
The ending of Loki felt a little anti-climatic to me.  The setup for future content was great, but I felt that was all the finale was going for.  It feels almost like a prelude to either Dr. Strange or the second season.  Either way, the show was great overall.  Tom Hiddleston as Loki is just a pure delight, and I got about as much of it as I could've asked for.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 17, 2021, 01:13:16 PM
Even though I enjoyed Loki and look forward to a 2nd season, for some reason it never really drew me in.
The door it left open in the end is interesting, and I look forward to seeing how that shapes the entry of all of everything recently acquired into the new MCU timeline, starting with Spider-Man and Doctor Strange. Alligator Loki and Throg being present were nice little things that I hope come back at some point (there was a deleted scene for Throg vs Loki when Loki was watching his life of losses reel <Loki lost to the frog>)



Having said that though.... I still haven't seen Black Widow.... and i'm usually an MCU opening weekend type, and have the ability to watch it from home. Not really sure what I'm waiting for, but event though I haven't seen it, it still seems like a movie that should've came out mid phase 3.
AM I trippin? should I watch it already and stop holding out for some lost motivation?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 17, 2021, 02:36:42 PM
Eh, reviews of Black Widow say it is alright to good-ish, but the biggest complaint is how it should have come out earlier like you said. "Too little too late" was something I saw tossed around a bit. Truthfully Black Widow should have been released when Captain Marvel was as a prelude to Endgame or earlier. After knowing she perishes in Endgame it really took a lot of the thunder from her solo flick and really, Captain Marvel did very little to support the buildup for Endgame in hindsight. Especially considering how little she was involved in the core plots of the film. Black Widow as opposed to Marvel was an already established core character in the MCU and her solo film could have given a few nuggets that could hit harder when she gives her life in Endgame.

I've not seen it either and honestly if you haven't yet might be worth waiting for it to be free on D+. I'm actually not sure I want to go to the theater for half of the current MCU films, especially when I can wait a few months and see them on D+. Its what, three months at most? Why drop $30 on the silly Premier Access or that and more in a theater and risk mingling with clowns that are not vaccinated?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Adrock on July 18, 2021, 02:05:25 AM
Loki was my favorite of the first three Marvel Disney+ shows. It wasted none of its runtime. Michael Waldron and Kate Herron (who will, unfortunately, not be returning for Season 2) made the extremely wise choice to not relegate He Who Remains as a post credit scene as originally planned.

A friend of a friend put Black Widow on his Plex server so that's how I watched it. The movie is fine. Everything Stratos said above rings true. Natasha's death in Endgame would have hit waaaaaaaaay harder had Black Widow released before it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 24, 2021, 07:28:10 PM
I was quite underwhelmed with Loki and rank it a distant third of the three series thus far, the finale of which was the worst episode in my opinion.

A couple of standout points which didn't work for me:

1. I refuse to accept that this Loki had such a turn around in something like a week. Remember this Loki a few days prior was invading to subjugate earth. He drilled out someone's eye mercilessly. He tried to kill his brother. Loki is the god of mischief. He has been spending countless centuries causing chaos and reveling in it. It's his life purpose. And in a week we're suppose to believe that he has completely repudiated his deeply entrenched life purpose and was willing to sacrifice himself for the betterment of humanity? Not buying it. If this was Loki prime (who died in Infinity War) then I would be on board, but not this one.

2. On average the writing was excellent. So why did they ruin the episodes with combat? The choreography was awful. Once again coming back to the theme, this is Loki. He is the God of Mischief. These conflicts could have been resolved by wit and cunning which would allow the writers more opportunities to get clever. Instead we have cheap fisticuffs which looked terrible. When Loki and Sylvie were standing on guard when Mr Remains' door was opening I was laughing because of how bad it looked. Especially since Loki uses daggers, not a machete or whatever that thing was.

3. It felt completely flat and unsatisfying. It certainly left things very exciting for the remainder of phase four, but provided absolutely no resolution to the series. I was gobsmacked when the end credits came up. I thought we were only half way through the episode. Marvel have traditionally been quite good at making each project have it's own standalone resolution but leaving further story tendrils for future projects. Not the case here.

This point is a bit different, but I was also disappointed in the fact that the end of episode two with the time bombs just stopped. That was a really interesting premise and we never saw it again, rather just Loki and Sylvie arguing with each other for half an hour.

I still enjoyed it and very much look forward to what it now means for the MCU.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: UncleBob on July 24, 2021, 10:20:19 PM
>I refuse to accept that this Loki had such a turn around in something like a week.

I think we're supposed to believe that this Loki watching Prime Loki's life play out, which included his role in the death of his mother and Ragnarok, combined with making a "real" connection to another (another?) person in Sylvie, he manag  change similar to how Prime Loki did.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Adrock on July 24, 2021, 10:57:18 PM
^ Yeah. Variant Loki doesn't get Prime Loki's personal development, but viewing his Time Theatre forced the variant to reevaluate the choices he has made so far which ultimately affected the choices he made in the series. "Glorious purpose" practically became a point of shame.

I thought the Scepter/Mind Stone given to Loki by Thanos either corrupted or controlled Loki during the events of the first Avengers. Before that, he was the god of mischief who was kind of a **** but hadn't done anything especially awful. Ripping that guy’s eye out and killing 80 people in two days was implied to be Thanos' influence.

Also, I was under the impression Loki was at the TVA for an indiscriminate amount of time. Since time flows differently there, Variant Loki could have been there for a week, a few months etc.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 25, 2021, 07:54:37 AM
Also the show ending without a resolution to that series was allegedly a last minute tweak that was not in the original plan.

I don't know how that changed the final episode of the season, but the show runner/director that isn't coming back for season 2 briefly mentioned it. No idea if that has any relation to why she is not returning. She just started that it wasn't part of the original plan.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 26, 2021, 05:38:23 PM
>I refuse to accept that this Loki had such a turn around in something like a week.

I think we're supposed to believe that this Loki watching Prime Loki's life play out, which included his role in the death of his mother and Ragnarok, combined with making a "real" connection to another (another?) person in Sylvie, he manag  change similar to how Prime Loki did.

Yeah I acknowledge that, but still not enough for me. Don't get me wrong, I would certainly expect some change and growth, but nowhere near the extent we saw here. If anything I would believe Loki would be all for watching the anarchy from "the others" if Mr Remains was killed. The resulting chaos would be right in his wheelhouse.


Also, I was under the impression Loki was at the TVA for an indiscriminate amount of time. Since time flows differently there, Variant Loki could have been there for a week, a few months etc.

Yeah I did think of that, but no effort at all was made to really drive that point home. The closest they came was when they sent him to go a few rounds with Lady Sif, but the episode doesn't indicate he was down there for long at all since all that passed in the TVA world were a couple of conversations before they went and pulled him out. At the very least I guess they could have just done a Spongebob and put some text on the screen at some point saying "An indeterminate amount of time later....." to at least indicate that events aren't taking place as quickly as it seems.

Also the show ending without a resolution to that series was allegedly a last minute tweak that was not in the original plan.

If this is true it wouldn't at all surprise me. I'd love to know what the ending was supposed to be.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 26, 2021, 08:37:26 PM
Especially knowing that the show will continue another season at least, I kinda wish we got more. More episodes of Loki and Mobius playing cop/detectives for a while. Maybe make that all of S1 and then the twist at the end of S1 is the full reveal that things are a farce at the TVA or some such thing, then let Loki go on the run a while and lead into the showdown at the void at the end of S2. This would give enough time for Loki to stew on his "Prime Life" and experience similar parallel character developments to Prime.

I'm still in the #LokiLives camp for Prime Loki. Nothing shown in the show is a shoe-in for his life being over, just implied. And with all the other smoke and mirrors the MCU D+ shows and this one in particular have been throwing around I think that is still in the cards. They've teased the possibility with Classic Loki sharing the survivor story. The series could very well conclude with TVA Loki warning Prime Loki or taking his place to die at Thanos' hands or some other switch-a-roo so that story hasn't wrapped yet.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 28, 2021, 04:01:44 AM
Especially knowing that the show will continue another season at least, I kinda wish we got more. More episodes of Loki and Mobius playing cop/detectives for a while. Maybe make that all of S1 and then the twist at the end of S1 is the full reveal that things are a farce at the TVA or some such thing, then let Loki go on the run a while and lead into the showdown at the void at the end of S2. This would give enough time for Loki to stew on his "Prime Life" and experience similar parallel character developments to Prime.

I have an idea for a story for this. How about if someone grabbed a heap of those pruning bombs/time bombs and set them all to travel to different points in time and detonate? They could have buddy copped around to explore and fixed that. I have a feeling I might have drawn inspiration from that idea from somewhere.....can't recall where though
/s

Quote
I'm still in the #LokiLives camp for Prime Loki. Nothing shown in the show is a shoe-in for his life being over, just implied. And with all the other smoke and mirrors the MCU D+ shows and this one in particular have been throwing around I think that is still in the cards. They've teased the possibility with Classic Loki sharing the survivor story. The series could very well conclude with TVA Loki warning Prime Loki or taking his place to die at Thanos' hands or some other switch-a-roo so that story hasn't wrapped yet.

I was actually fully expecting Loki Prime to be the main man pulling the TVA strings. Would have been a very interesting twist if they could satisfactorily explain how he lived through the events of Infinity War.

However I think this Loki is done. I was actually happy when he was bumped off in Infinity War. I'm just getting tired of him. I was hoping he'd get killed off again at the end of this series.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on July 29, 2021, 05:34:59 PM
Especially knowing that the show will continue another season at least, I kinda wish we got more. More episodes of Loki and Mobius playing cop/detectives for a while. Maybe make that all of S1 and then the twist at the end of S1 is the full reveal that things are a farce at the TVA or some such thing, then let Loki go on the run a while and lead into the showdown at the void at the end of S2. This would give enough time for Loki to stew on his "Prime Life" and experience similar parallel character developments to Prime.

I have an idea for a story for this. How about if someone grabbed a heap of those pruning bombs/time bombs and set them all to travel to different points in time and detonate? They could have buddy copped around to explore and fixed that. I have a feeling I might have drawn inspiration from that idea from somewhere.....can't recall where though
/s

Was this referenced earlier and I overlooked it? Or is this the premise of a different show?

Quote
I'm still in the #LokiLives camp for Prime Loki. Nothing shown in the show is a shoe-in for his life being over, just implied. And with all the other smoke and mirrors the MCU D+ shows and this one in particular have been throwing around I think that is still in the cards. They've teased the possibility with Classic Loki sharing the survivor story. The series could very well conclude with TVA Loki warning Prime Loki or taking his place to die at Thanos' hands or some other switch-a-roo so that story hasn't wrapped yet.

I was actually fully expecting Loki Prime to be the main man pulling the TVA strings. Would have been a very interesting twist if they could satisfactorily explain how he lived through the events of Infinity War.



The show explains how Prime Loki could have done it through how Classic Loki did the same thing but making it a big trick, just have the End/Void Loki be a variant that did the same trick and went through the TVA similar to ShowLoki. Have a fun twist by showing the TVA events with ShowLoki are just a repeat of events PrimeLoki went through before getting to the Void showing that multiple Lokis aside from Sylvie/ShowLoki chased all this TVA-Multiverse nonsense down to the root. The Many Loki Fight before could have been a fun foreshadowing of a bigger more serious conflict that would happen again in the Void.

However I think this Loki is done. I was actually happy when he was bumped off in Infinity War. I'm just getting tired of him. I was hoping he'd get killed off again at the end of this series.

If you want the Loki Prime death to follow through, make it where ShowLoki at the end of everything chooses to go back and allow himself to be killed by Thanos as some sort of sacrifice for the timeline or something. Make it an emotional twist ending of sorts.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on July 29, 2021, 06:15:10 PM
It was how episode two concluded. Sylvie rigged all the bombs she'd been stealing off the TVA teams to travel through to all different points in time and detonate. It resulted in the time graph going bananas. This just seemed to be completely dropped, rather we follow Loki through the portal chasing Sylvie and watched them bicker and sing on a train for half an hour. Felt like a whole episode's worth of content or more was just left out. You'd think that blowing all those timelines would have been quite a significant (and very interesting) event.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on July 31, 2021, 02:37:45 AM
It was how episode two concluded. Sylvie rigged all the bombs she'd been stealing off the TVA teams to travel through to all different points in time and detonate. It resulted in the time graph going bananas. This just seemed to be completely dropped, rather we follow Loki through the portal chasing Sylvie and watched them bicker and sing on a train for half an hour. Felt like a whole episode's worth of content or more was just left out. You'd think that blowing all those timelines would have been quite a significant (and very interesting) event.

Yeah, that part felt really off to me.  Since we don't really see the TVA side of things, I'm left to think that they just cleared things up off-screen, but the situation looked pretty dire.  Multiple timelines were approaching the red.  It would've taken a Herculean effort to fix it, but this is left to the viewer to just assume?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: UncleBob on August 01, 2021, 06:51:44 AM
Yeah, Sylvie's goal in the moment was to distract the TVA long enough to break in and kill the Time Masters.  Which, kinda, she did.  She probably knew that the TVA would be able to somewhat easily fix it, but it'd literally take all their resources.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on August 03, 2021, 12:42:21 PM
Also considering how Kang was 'tending' the timelines it is possible he steps in and does something in a high risk situation to keep it from splitting. But would have been nice to see some of it get resolved. Its probably a perfect excuse to have stretched the season into more of the investigator/buddy cop stuff folks wanted having Loki and Mobius going to different timelines to cleanup messes or make sure things are well and truly fixed.

It brings up a bit of a problem all of the MCU TV stuff has to a degree. The story and plot is so tight and driven that it rarely gives us a chance to breath in the world. It is a problem with shorter series, but it can be done. The Boat repair scene from Falcon is an example of it. But these shows in general have felt like the go by too fast and are too focused on their "big picture" purposes of setting the narrative for Phase 4 movies. Let the shows dwell a bit on their own matters and let us go on these journeys with characters instead of being strapped into a non-stop rollercoaster ride to Multiverse of Madness.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What If...!? The MCU was Animated!!?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 19, 2021, 11:56:02 PM
Is no one watching What If...!?

What If...!? Captain Carter took the SS serum instead.
I have to say the first episode was alright. Felt a little rushed.
I still think I'd prefer the What If!? we got to see Cap return all the stones and live out his life with Peggy instead. But that's just me.


What If...!? T'Challa was kidnapped by the Ravagers instead
This episode I like ALOT better. The universe genuinely seemed like a better place. Star Lord actually made a difference and created a name and legacy for himself. Now Chadwick will be missed on Earth and in Space, and when people refer to the Sacred Time Line Star Lord, everyone will be like "Who!!?"

Good Guy Thanos, and him trying to repeatedly justify his plan for "genocide" was a great running gag.
so much to like about this 2nd episode... like Quill working at Dairy Queen. LOL


anyone know which What If...!? is next?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: nickmitch on August 20, 2021, 07:04:46 PM
I have not been.  I may need to wait to catch up.  It didn't feel like essential viewing, so I haven't prioritized it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 21, 2021, 06:12:54 PM
I've enjoyed What If far more than I expected to. Definitely more than Loki, and up there with F&WS and WV in terms of enjoyment. It's just wonderful seeing how much fun they're having with the show. Not to mention the animation is beautiful, and the fight scenes (especially in the first episode) were .....brilliant.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 27, 2021, 12:04:32 AM
Latest episode was pretty cool.

One Long Week variant, the Fury focused comic that came out to connect how Ironman, Thor, and Hulk from Phase1 all happened in the same week. Only things didn't go nearly as well as what we saw back in 2008.

I'd put this one behind last weeks Star Lord T'Challa, and just above Captain Carter.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 29, 2021, 11:15:07 AM
since this is a spolier thread, this was why Thanos would NEVER set foot on Earth in the last reality explored on What If...?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9Wvn4nWQAAzyBG?format=jpg&name=large)

Murderous Hank as Yellow Jacket is not to be fucked with.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Livin' La Vida Loki)
Post by: Stratos on August 29, 2021, 09:01:01 PM
I mean, Hulks demise kinda fits that premise but in a less stinky manner.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: Stratos on August 29, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
I updated the thread for What If and Black Widow (belatedly).
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 29, 2021, 11:44:13 PM
I mean, Hulks demise kinda fits that premise but in a less stinky manner.

Yeah, he put his whole heart into the effort on this one.

But just think how deadly Pym could be if he wanted to be... good thing he kept that tech out of the hands of Hydra (and SHIELD) at any means possible. The world would be a fucked up place.

Was there a trailer for what the next episode would be?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: Stratos on August 30, 2021, 02:45:44 PM
I haven't seen any trailers for anything beyond the first three.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 30, 2021, 08:05:01 PM
I just saw it's something about Dr. Strange.

Who wants to guess the "What If...?" Storyline staying Strange?

(https://i.imgur.com/DghPuPv.jpg)
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 31, 2021, 02:33:54 PM
Marvel has revealed what the next episode will be about.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTPxQC5Hk88/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=c5890a14-4608-455f-89a8-a11b32597c02

What if Doctor Strange lost the love of his life, instead of his hands.
It appears he will be seeking POWER to turn back time for personal reasons
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 04, 2021, 05:49:26 PM
just a quick update:

This was a really good but kind depressing episode.
It's also the longest episode so far as well.

also Dr Strange gonna be pulling off some crazy **** in the next 2 movies he's in.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Black Widow came out before Endgame)
Post by: Plugabugz on September 07, 2021, 03:58:11 PM
Shang Chi - This was a fun introduction, though the CGI in the third act (i saw it in 2D) was visually worse than previous not-Avengers movies. The Winter Soldier is still the best one in terms of hiding the CGI - like the entire rooftop chase scene.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Sauron gave Shang Chi his rings?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 10, 2021, 02:27:52 AM
Shang Chi was great. I really enjoyed it.

The fight scenes were easily Best of MCU, as that whole bus scene as A+
I really want more of the fight club, and maybe with Ten Rings under new management, maybe we get more of that?

Trevor Slattery cameo/appearance I honestly thought was kinda funny at times, but overstayed it's welcome. His ability to somehow understand a mythical/fantasy creature was bizarre, and for that creature to be able to guide them through the forest when you gotta move that quick was also kinda crazy, but I'm not trying to nitpick the details, as there were a few things around this part of the movie that can be nitpicked. This was fun and I look forward to more Shang Chi, Xialing and the Ten Rings.

Shang Chi's blend of Mom and Dad's style to handle the Dweller in the Darkness dragon was a nice touch, as he used the rings in a completely different style that his dad. Where Mandarin used it more as shock gloves, whips and a shield, Shang Chi used it as a fluid extension of himself and a barrier. That style is gave him the power to beat that soul sucking dragon in the first place.

As for the first mid credit scene... who is the rings signaling? Fin Fang Foom? Something else?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...I'm covered in Sharon!!?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 10, 2021, 03:46:52 PM
What If.... ZOMBIES!!!

If there was a need for a full 42 minute episode, and then an follow up episode, and possibly even one more (to just make it a full 2 hour movie-sode) it was this episode.

Really, an extra 10 minutes probably could've wrapped it up, but this was so interesting, I want to see them flesh it out. I've never read Marvel Zombies, but Feige need to go ahead and start green lighting some extra Marvel Animation projects, and I nominate this episode for a mini-series.
Of course we would be missing Boseman for T'Challa, but I hope someone can mimic his voice and style as well as the guy who did Spider-Man in place of Holland.

Part of what makes this Zombie-sode so interesting is the fact that the Zombies keep enough of themselves to still use their attributes, accessories, and powers. I saw a few snippets of the comic panels, and they actually retain their personalities in full as along as they aren't starving and giving into the "HUNGER". In the end of this ep, you could see Wanda was a little devastated over the loss of Vision.

What sucks though, is that even after they escape... it wasn't over. Zombie Thanos was coming for the Mind stone. I REALLY wanted to see how that end up playing out.
Does he snap and wish everyone back to normal? Is he still on a mission to rid the universe of half of it's life? is he even after an additional stone still? Or just more food.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Sauron gave Shang Chi his rings?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 12, 2021, 03:27:17 AM
Shang Chi - is a movie with a great setup and payoff. There is some cool action stuff in between.

I also went to Target after the movie, I walked into the toy aisle, and they had a plush Morris on clearance. I picked that up. You succeeded Disney, you succeeded damn it.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...I'm covered in Sharon!!?)
Post by: Stratos on September 27, 2021, 12:36:21 PM
What If.... ZOMBIES!!!

If there was a need for a full 42 minute episode, and then an follow up episode, and possibly even one more (to just make it a full 2 hour movie-sode) it was this episode.

So I'm slowly working through this and now Star Wars Visions as there isn't really an urgency to watch them. I hope we get additional seasons as there is so much fun stuff you can do with the What If scenario. Additional seasons could also allow us to revisit some of these timelines and see how things are going and answer some other questions.

And damn is this series dark. Between the original Avengers getting killed off, the zombies killing lots of them, the Dr Strange one, and the Kilmonger one have a lot of heavy deaths.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Sauron gave Shang Chi his rings?)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on September 27, 2021, 12:49:15 PM
Killmonger episode was also one that needed a follow-up ASAP.

Party Thor episode (the latest one) was of a MUCH lighter tone and chock full of cameos. But that end scene basically lets you know that some of these will be revisited in one way or another.

there is screenshots of *spoiler*numerous character from different episodes meeting up with each other, and there is a season 2 that comes out next year.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (What if...Sauron gave Shang Chi his rings?)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 05, 2021, 02:38:10 AM
Wow it's been quiet in here.

Seen Eternals twice and I just love it. I think it's now my favourite MCU movie. And Makkari has just become my favourite hero.

I am far from a movie reviewer but I'll try to put some words to my thoughts.

It looked beautiful. Some great looking shots, costumes were beautiful, CGI was pretty damn good. The Deviants also looked great.

The soundtrack was excellent. I might be partial here because I adore Mr Djawadi's work and it definitely had his feel to it. And it fit beautifully.

I enjoyed the story a lot. It was well told. Some parts were quite heavy on the exposition but given the subject matter, a whole new element to the universe and new characters I don't see how they could have avoided it. No complaints from me given the circumstances.

What I was not expecting were just how good the fight scenes were. Holy hell. Some were extremely tense and damn they were choreographed and acted wonderfully. And you could really feel the blows being traded. Especially with two standouts being Makkari and Gilgamesh. Each member had their time to shine and were utilised well.

Two post credit scenes to watch. Neither of them meant anything to me because I know absolutely nothing of the source material but bring it on. I dearly hope there's a sequel. I am very seriously considering going back for another viewing.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: nickmitch on November 05, 2021, 02:45:14 PM
I'm glad you liked it! I was considering going to see it this weekend. I missed F9, so my last movie experience was Black Widow. I'd been feeling a little down lately, but my mood has been on an upswing, so I'd like to carry that momentum with a good viewing experience. Might go tomorrow.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 06, 2021, 03:50:50 AM
I'm glad you liked it! I was considering going to see it this weekend. I missed F9, so my last movie experience was Black Widow. I'd been feeling a little down lately, but my mood has been on an upswing, so I'd like to carry that momentum with a good viewing experience. Might go tomorrow.

Unfortunately it's not hard to beat Black Widow. Bottom tier MCU in my opinion. In fact it's the first MCU movie that I didn't bother finishing my rewatch after home release. I'll shelve that with Guardians 2 in the movies I have no interest in ever watching again.

Eternals seems to be very divisive, at least among critics. I've very curious to see what the consensus is here. On another forum I frequent my post singing its praises was bookended by two other posters hating it. I for the life of me can't wrap my mind around it but it's definitely out there. Hopefully you enjoy it as I did.

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: Plugabugz on November 07, 2021, 03:14:04 PM
I quite liked Eternals for its completely different visual design. I'm 99% sure its critical dislike comes from the fact that its so different rather than anything specific to do with the movie itself - which lends perfectly to why WandaVision's unique look is so well liked over any of the following D+ shows.

The valet was by far my favourite character for bringing a completely warm and humble attitude to these characters.

I'm more interested in where this goes next and where we're going in this story, but i hope Marvel Studios takes the opportunity to keep swinging for something different.

However, Disney and other studios are fast developing an issue what i call "gay on paper" where they make a LGBT character that, when you delete one sentence or scene, they stop being LGBT at all and has no bearing upon the rest of the story in any way - like it never existed except on notes on the side of a script. Jungle Cruise also did this earlier this year. Big points though for pairing a black american with a lebanese guy, because the *other* issue is how non-white pairings is almost never seen in mainstream media. Given that Sersi and Ikaris get to play out their love story over the centuries and we get that one scene, it feels like Endgame levels of barely trying.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: Stratos on November 08, 2021, 04:43:59 PM
The complaints I've seen for Eternals seem to be around the story and its scope. They try to get you interested in like 10 new characters not to mention villains and side characters, and cover this grand scope. Sounds like they needed an extra film or two to lay out the foundation for a lot of folks. Too large of a cast of new folks so everyone's scenes and plot parts are too short or rushed or flat out neglected. Also seems like a bigger version of the Captain Marvel complaint where they work in a major character retroactively that leads everyone to ask "where were they in Endgame?" Its always tough to do that.

Its cool to see how much you liked it Shorty. Probably one of the most glowing takes I've seen from the film and you mention things others from both sides don't even bring up.

I will say the trailers all don't do the film any service. The jokes about "heroes heroically standing around" was my take from the trailers and promo shots.

Though honestly everything post-Endgame feels a bit underwhelming. Either its because nothing can quite follow up after that conclusion or they are struggling to lay the road for things in phase 4.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on November 09, 2021, 01:46:12 AM
As much as I just adore the movie I'm not blind to the issues. It certainly does have them. But I just loved it so much that they didn't bother me in the slightest.

Introducing ten new characters as well as a whole new side of the MCU is certainly a big ask, and you're quite right that they probably should have done it across two movies or a series. But given they chose to use one movie I think they did it about as well as they possibly could have under the circumstances. And for me it worked beautifully. Maybe I'm just a tiny niche of whom this movie really ..... spoke(?) to. I don't know, but whatever the case, I think the faults are well and truly outweighed by the praise.

I can certainly say that I very much look forward to the sequel and dearly hope Ms Zhao is once again holding the reins. If this is what she can put together with the scope it had I cannot wait to see what she can do with something tighter.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (MCU will go on for all Eternity)
Post by: ThePerm on November 26, 2021, 07:36:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpmpdwxW9Lw

I wonder how deep it goes...
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: Stratos on December 12, 2021, 07:58:46 PM
Updated thread title for Hawkeye a bit late and just threw Spidey in as well since that should be releasing soon.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: ThePerm on December 22, 2021, 12:38:12 AM
For years I read all these comments about "How does spider-man make such a crazy suit? How could he possibly make such a suit without help?"

And the answer has always been Spiders weave webs. Spider-man has superhuman knitting and sewing skills.

also What If The symbiote suit found Miles Morales in the MCUverse. Has this ever happened in the comics?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: nickmitch on December 22, 2021, 05:04:48 PM
Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: Adrock on December 27, 2021, 02:21:23 AM
Did anyone else watch the Spider-Men?
Yes.

This is the spoiler thread so I'm not tagging anything.

Loved it. Not perfect (back to that later), but it may sneak into my Top 5 MCU movies. That may be post-No Way Home hype and/or the Spider-Man fangirl in me talking. I'll revisit the list once I calm down.

Great job by Marvel/Sony for playing up Far From Home's ending in the trailers then mostly resolving that grander implications of it until the end so No Way Home can tell the story it actually wants to tell. Grade-A Charlie Cox cameo, pulling double duty. First, it's a perfect way to reintroduce the character and formally introduce him to the MCU. More importantly, narratively, it works. He hand waves away Peter's legal liability so the plot can move forward. It should be noted again that almost every MCU hero legally gets away with **** they shouldn't so it's a little weird that it was played up in this one.

The plot is nonsense if you think too hard about it. The most obvious narrative shrug being Peter could have asked Dr. Strange to make everyone forget about Quentin Beck/Mysterio. If that's too vague, Dr. Strange is also too smart not to ask Peter to really think about what he's asking before casting the spell.

We also don't know why these five specific villains (technically six) were pulled into the MCU. Dr. Strange theorizes they all knew Peter's identity, but Electro never learned this info in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. The movie even acknowledges this at the end when Peter unmasks in front of Electro (shout out to that excellent Miles Morales tease). Because of the multiverse, they may all be Variants so it still works.

The writers did an excellent job of cherry picking when it came to the other non-MCU Spider-Man movies. They took what worked, what was needed for this movie, and retconned what they had to. For example, in the Raimi movies, Norman Osborn was not publicly known to be the Green Goblin. For a more egregious change, Electro is like a completely different character. Again, maybe Variants? The writers also had some fun with the weird **** Sony did when left to its own devices (i.e. dunking on Rhino, falling into midnight sand experiment/vat of eels).

I can't stress enough how good a job the writers did here. The margin of error was very large, but they pulled it off. At the same time, there's clearly a template. Spider-Man: No Way Home works for the same reason the Avengers movies work: Completely separate movies do much of the heavy lifting. That's why the payoffs work so well here, and they were all earned. Dr. Octopus stops fighting once his inhibitor chip is fixed, and saving Peter is exactly what he would do. Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man preventing Tom Holland's Spider-Man from killing Green Goblin works because he learned that lesson about vengeance twice. Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man saving MJ gives his character some closure. We all kind of knew it was coming when MJ falling was shown in the trailer, but I was still there for it. Garfield acting totally sells it too.

This is also the first MCU Spider-Man film to understand Spider-Man as a character. I like that we've had a new take on the character since his introduction in Captain America: Civil War because we didn't need the origin again, but I also wanted to see a truer version in the MCU. We finally got the "great responsibility" line and it was marked by the death of someone close to Peter (because it has to). He is a character defined by tragedy yet he will always do the right thing even at a great personal loss (though here, with some help from his counterparts). No Way Home gets this without falling into full-on misery porn. If we get more MCU Spider-Man films, I want to see Feige and co. do more with this side of the character, again minus the misery porn.

Willem Defoe straight up knocked it out of the park. His performance may actually be better than his original in 2002. He was ungodly amazing in No Way Home, stole most scenes he was in. That laugh after no-selling Spider-Man's punches gave me chills. Alfred Molina was similarly excellent. Thomas Haden Church and Rhys Ifans recorded new lines but didn't film new footage.

My personal gripes are mostly minor:

TL;DR: Spider-Man: No Way Home is the best of the MCU Spider-Man trilogy, the best Phase 4 anything yet (haven't seen The Eternals but doubt it tops this), and one of the best MCU anything to date. Watch for Spider-Men, stay for Willem Defoe's return as Green Goblin.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: ThePerm on December 27, 2021, 04:52:13 AM
Because Sony wants too keep making billions of dollars of Spider-man expect:

The Amazing Spider-man 3 (Andrew)

The Web of Spider-man (Tobey) - I imagine some Dr. Strange 2 Sam Raimi stuff is going to go down with Tobey. Make it a TV show.

The Spectacular Spider-Man (Tom) - The home series is over, Tom is now able to go forward as a man without the need for father figures.

It would also be interesting to find out that they all have hand web powers, they just didn't know it. The fact that they can synthesize it artificially is just a result of Spider-knowledge.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: nickmitch on December 27, 2021, 09:26:48 AM
Great summary, Adrock. That movie felt very Spider-Man. I loved the scene where they're all sitting around waiting for the big fight to begin and just comparing notes about being Spider-Man. That little group therapy session felt really good for me as the viewer because it gave each character something they've never had before: kinship.

Ned trying to figure out if the other Spider-Men have a 'Ned' in their lives was hilarious to me. It reminded me of that episode of Rick and Morty where Jaguar asks if he has infinite daughters and Rick replies "No, just me".  Spider-Man is the only constant. Sorry, Ned.

I was really blown away by the acting throughout. It felt like everyone was giving it their all. Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus might've had their best versions in this film.

Speaking of Strange/Peters's decision-making, I thought it was weird that Peter needed Ned and MJ to "Scooby-Doo this ****". I wasn't entirely sure what they did other than look up news articles. The phone being taped to Peter also felt unnecessary. But it did keep the group together, so I went with it.

Such a great movie all-around. Easily in my top 5 MCU just from the years' worth of payoff. I also think the movie gives some commentary on other superhero films, MCU in particular, by having Peter insist on reforming the villains instead of letting them die.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: ThePerm on December 27, 2021, 02:42:07 PM
That has always been an issue in comic book movies. The Dark Knight left the Joker alive at the end, but unfortunately Heath Ledger had passed away. Killing villains in their first outing is bad for franchises. Thor did this right. Which is why we were able to have the Loki series. Although, Loki has died a bunch of times.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: Shorty McNostril on January 01, 2022, 04:39:33 PM
Adrock summed up my thoughts very nicely too. But I'd add two small nitpicks I found:

1. JJ didn't have the clever wit and snark that he had in the Raimi movies. He was a far more matter of fact, no nonsense reporting. Technically this is a different JJ so I can understand it as per the lore, but it's still disappointing.

2. I would have liked Tobey and Andrew's Spider-Man outfits to have been differentiated a bit. They are very similar and when in motion it's somewhat difficult to pick out who was who. Obviously they were going for full nostalgia with their original outfits but adding a dash of colour, or maybe even another classic design on one of them would have been nice.

Aside from that it was a wonderful time and probably the best quality Marvel offering this year. The patrons at our theatre viewing were cheering and applauding when the other Peters arrived and at when Andrew saved MJ (best moment in the movie in my opinion). Having said that I enjoyed Eternals more (I don't know why but I did).

Also, congrats to Jon Watts for being the first director to complete a trilogy for the MCU.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: ThePerm on January 02, 2022, 03:58:14 AM
Amazing Spider-man and Amazing Spider-man 2 had such radically different tones that we could argue that they are in fact different universes.

The Amazing Spider-man 2 suit was great, what I like in a Toby style Spider-man suit. But The Amazing Spider-man suit is so different that it's actually cool. The main problem with it, I assume is that it's made of rubber. I've seen some cosplay printed versions of the suit that have the same look, but are probably comfortable.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: Adrock on January 22, 2022, 03:29:10 PM
Hawkeye was great. Of the live action Disney+ Marvel shows, I’d rank it on par or just below Loki which is my personal favorite of the four so far.

Some thoughts:
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: nickmitch on January 23, 2022, 04:09:07 PM
Hawkeye was so good! I agree with most of Adrock's thoughts, specifically 2, 3, 4, and 5. The Blip scene was so well done, and the dynamic between Kate and Yelena was fantastic. I hope they explore this more in the future.

There was one moment I really liked where Mrs. Bishop tells Clint that being good wasn't enough to save Natasha. I liked it because Clint is pretty affected by that specific comment and Mrs. Bishop doesn't know a) how close they were or b) that they basically fought each other for the right to self-sacrifice and Black Window won, so she almost literally died because she was so good or at least that much better than Hawkeye.

I also liked how the show showed the effects of Hawkeye's adventuring over the years. He's been rendered mostly deaf from being around all those explosions. He still feels regrets over his time as Ronin, and the enemies he made are still out to get him.

The story felt pretty tight and well-contained. I don't need the stakes to be incredibly high to be entertained by super-heroics and having something feel a bit scaled-down fit the characters really well. The whole planet wasn't ever in any danger, Hawkeye just wanted to get his old suit back and tie up a few loose ends.  That much felt refreshing as I could feel invested in the characters without their being world-ending stakes which was a nice contrast from the most recent Marvel outings.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (Spider Eye & Hawk Man)
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2022, 03:08:23 AM
Doesn't being shrunk by pym particles make you super dense? So if a bird tried to eat you, you'd be like metal to the bird?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Stratos on April 12, 2022, 07:48:54 PM
Anyone watched Moon Knight? Seen the first two episodes and its interesting but feels like it needs to get going more. Not quite what I was hoping for but maybe things will fall into place later.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 22, 2022, 02:30:10 AM
anyone watch the latest episode....

and if you did... care to explain WTF was going on at the end.

Was he off to the afterlife?
the insane asylum... and the extra coffin they didn't check
self confrontation
..... and then the Hippo Lady. WTF!?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Stratos on April 23, 2022, 02:01:37 AM
Wife and I are just as lost. Caught up on the show and now just not sure what is happening.

I think there is a third personality. There are times way too violent to be Marc. And Steven denies doing it and I think that is true. If Steven is the passive/good one, Marc seems to be the "balanced" one that does the right stuff but still seems morally good. We need a third one to go the other way and I'll bet he does all the brutal killings (maybe he's even the one that killed Layla's dad?). I think that extra coffin in the asylum place is that third persona.

As for the asylum...who knows. I don't think it is all a dream/madness and he is in a real location. Maybe this is his mind prison? I've seen other shows present a physical looking location as a representation of someone's mind. Maybe this will break down all the walls between his personalities and allow him to be a little bit more harmonious in himself, more freely switching between personas?

I like the theme and music of the show, and the proper Moon Knight costume looks good. CGI seems a bit rough sadly but it isn't much of a detractor.

The hippo person? Was the voice familiar to you? I feel like that is supposed to be someone we know but maybe that was just general shock value. Could it be another god/avatar? Was there an Egyptian hippo headed god?

Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 24, 2022, 05:23:17 AM
I was aware of a 3rd personality, based exactly on the scene you were referring to.
I also assumed that shaking coffin they didn't open was exactly what you suggested as well.

The asylum being his "Mind Prison" is along the lines of what I thinking, as the last firings of his brain just before death, all played out, but in reality, happened in less than a second. This all before his awakening moments later in real time with Konshu revived in him or something crazy like that.

The Hippo.... that's really where they really lost me... no idea's there at all.
The asylum setting already had me guessing as to what they were getting at (was it all in his head all along?), and then Hippo lady as the cutaway just left me perplexed. I did not recognize the voice, and I have no idea what to expect come this Tuesday night as to what is about to go down and what it all means.


Edit: New Rockstars take on the episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdWxALuAosg
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Stratos on April 27, 2022, 12:33:58 AM
I thought it was Wednesday. Are they airing Tuesday? Might watch it tonight then!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taweret

So there is an Egyptian hippo god. To avoid spoilers I'm avoiding any explanations regarding the Moon Knight character but seems like it isn't something as wildly out of left field as we think it is for the series.

Interesting things I caught about the actual deity on Wikipedia

Quote
In Ancient Egyptian religion, Taweret (also spelled Taurt, Tuat, Tuart, Ta-weret, Tawaret, Twert and Taueret, and in Greek, Θουέρις – Thouéris, Thoeris, Taouris and Toeris) is the protective ancient Egyptian goddess of childbirth and fertility. The name "Taweret" (Tȝ-wrt) means "she who is great" or simply "great one", a common pacificatory address to dangerous deities.[1] The deity is typically depicted as a bipedal female hippopotamus with feline attributes, pendulous female human breasts, the limbs and paws of a lion, and the back and tail of a Nile crocodile. She commonly bears the epithets "Lady of Heaven", "Mistress of the Horizon", "She Who Removes Water", "Mistress of Pure Water", and "Lady of the Birth House".[2]
...
Her hand rests on the sa sign, a hieroglyph that means "protection".

So she is associated with protection, water, fertility, and childbirth. Protection and water would help him in the situation of being shot and falling into the water...assuming what we have been watching isn't all a fevered dream.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on April 28, 2022, 03:20:59 AM
It does air technically on Wednesday, but goes live at midnight Tuesday night.

speaking of which... it' now technically Thursday, and I haven't watched this weeks episode yet.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Stratos on April 29, 2022, 07:26:34 PM
We watched it and it was a fun ride. One of the best MCU shows so far I'd say. Be interesting to see how it ends. Hope we see more Moon Night after this show. Its billed as a limited run but so was Loki before they announced S2 at the end.

Wondering what will happen with Steven. Also odd that his accidental sacrifice balanced the scales. What about the third (or more) personalities? Wondering if the hearts will be key to bringing back Steven somehow. Also really crazy seeing the painful backstory. Felt much more visceral than previous attempts as 'painful and tragic backstories'. Wanda's and Bishop's losses and pain seemed much less intense because they were linked to action scenes and explosions. The slow beating and abuse of a child...that just feels more intense to me.

I thought for sure that the imbalance was the third personality being missing and they would find him to make things balance out. If I had to guess this personality is related to PTSD from his military service? Maybe he was a POW that was tortured or something? Will we even see the third personality in this season?
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2022, 12:10:37 PM
I just finished the season. I think the sacrifice balanced the scales because it essentially made it so that only "one" heart was balanced, with Steven being frozen.

I thought the third tomb that they quickly ignored was fascinating. The scene kept moving, but it still stuck out. It was unclear if Marc even noticed, but it's possible he was just more concerned with Steven or even that he knew it was there and was hell-bent on not opening it. It's clear there's a third person in there from a few episodes back when neither of them remembered killing those guys in Egypt.

Having seen the finale, it does come up, but in more of a bonus scene to tease the next season.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Adrock on May 15, 2022, 05:26:57 PM
Finally caught up on these two. Still have to catch up on What If and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.

Eternals

It's okay. Probably the weakest Phase 4 anything. At least Black Widow gave us Red Guardian and especially Yelena. Some thoughts:

Moon Knight

It's okay. Some thoughts:
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: nickmitch on May 15, 2022, 10:36:39 PM
Moon Knight

5. In Episode 4, Layla insisting on having that argument in Alexander the Great's tomb while they're fleeing bad guys is some of the dumbest **** I've seen in the MCU. Can it wait? The fate of the world is at stake.

This is basically an extension of Tony going apeshit on Cap and Bucky. Once you find out someone close to you maybe secretly killed your parents, nothing else matters.

Quote
9. Jake Lockley complicates the whole scales thing, but I'm willing to give Marvel the chance to explain that in future Moon Knight appearances.

I think the explanation is that there were two hearts on the scale that needed to be balanced. And because the two personalities were at odds with each other, they couldn't balance. I imagine if either of them tried to balance their own heart by itself, it would've worked better; but if there was a third heart on the scale, it wouldn't have worked at all.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Adrock on May 15, 2022, 10:51:06 PM
This is basically an extension of Tony going apeshit on Cap and Bucky. Once you find out someone close to you maybe secretly killed your parents, nothing else matters.
Ehh, I didn't buy it in Captain America: Civil War either. The stakes are significantly higher in Moon Knight.

Quote
I think the explanation is that there were two hearts on the scale that needed to be balanced. And because the two personalities were at odds with each other, they couldn't balance. I imagine if either of them tried to balance their own heart by itself, it would've worked better; but if there was a third heart on the scale, it wouldn't have worked at all.
Alright, that makes sense.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: nickmitch on May 15, 2022, 11:07:42 PM
Avenging your parents' murder is a core theme of the MCU. It's not their best theme.
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: UncleBob on May 16, 2022, 12:20:59 PM
Living on Earth-616 looks like a bad time.

HAVE you SEEN our Earth lately? 🤣
Title: Re: SPOILER ALERT: MCU Thread (A Good Night for a Moon Knight)
Post by: Adrock on May 16, 2022, 12:48:51 PM
HAVE you SEEN our Earth lately? 🤣
That’s fair. They’re not mutually exclusive though. Here’s how I choose to view our Earth lately:

(https://i.ibb.co/bL94Lxm/A44-D2-E98-9-E1-D-4-A9-A-BB52-754-F193-DBEED.gif)