Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: tendoboy1984 on August 02, 2014, 01:13:42 PM
Title: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: tendoboy1984 on August 02, 2014, 01:13:42 PM
I found a very interesting rumor on GoNintendo. Apparently, Nintendo's management is unhappy with Iwata and they want to kick him out. They also want the company to start making smartphone games. Of course Iwata is against that, saying Nintendo's specialty is making integrated hardware and software.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: UncleBob on August 02, 2014, 01:25:07 PM
Aside from some actual, real issues with the article (like the idea that Iwata is an "outsider"), to anyone who seriously thinks Nintendo should go the way of iOS/Android/Cell phone games... name one developer who has actually seen success transitioning their known franchises from consoles/handhelds to smartphones. Even EA and Activision has had a terrible time at doing this.
Nintendo needs to focus on getting Nintendo titles on Nintendo systems.
I would totally buy a Nintendo Phone though.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Mop it up on August 02, 2014, 03:10:53 PM
Well I don't know what article this is, but I'd think if there were any truth to it, Iwata's approval rating would have been lower. How quickly they would forget that Nintendo's most successful systems are under Iwata.
name one developer who has actually seen success transitioning their known franchises from consoles/handhelds to smartphones.
How are Square's franchises selling on phones? I know they've released a bunch of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest stuff.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: UncleBob on August 02, 2014, 03:21:17 PM
Squenix has had limited success in the cell phone market. They get a lot of grief for "overpricing" their games ($10-$15 range)
A quick search of lists of top cell phone developers doesn't seem to ever include them.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 02, 2014, 04:27:34 PM
Didn't he just get re-elected President of the company a couple months ago with over 80% approval?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Shaymin on August 02, 2014, 04:32:13 PM
His approval rating was the only one to actually *improve* YoY.
Also, management =/= idiot shareholders.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 02, 2014, 05:51:13 PM
The management of Nintendo is the Board of Directors and Iwata himself. If the board of directors is unhappy, they could vote to remove him at any moment. If they really wanted to start making smartphone games for that kind of money, they would have fired him years ago.
Unless this rumor is talking about the top game designers, which makes even less sense. Many of the top designers have been given more freedom then ever these last several years since Miyamoto has become less hands on. There's a reason why a lot of recent Nintendo games have higher production values and orchestrated music compared to what they used to have. If the developers want to start making smaller smartphone games, they sure aren't showing it.
So yeah, the rumor is bullshit anyway you look at it.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 02, 2014, 06:52:10 PM
Cellphone games make more money in Japan than both console and handhelds, so while this rumor seems bogus, I can believes that eventually they may have to go that road.
That is the day I stop gaming.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Soren on August 02, 2014, 07:41:02 PM
This reeks of a vocal minority trying to muscle their way into public opinion with a few choice quotes. Would love to see an accurate translation of the piece.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 02, 2014, 07:56:25 PM
I had to check the date on this thread and make sure it wasn't a bump from 2012.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 03, 2014, 12:26:21 AM
Course tendoboy bolds the mobile games part.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Enner on August 03, 2014, 04:17:25 AM
It's all in Japanese, but here's the article that has been making waves: http://biz-journal.jp/i/2014/08/post_5585_entry.html
Here's a rough translation of one of the juicy insider quotes. Disclaimer: it's been ages since I took Japanese.
Among management, there's a shared recognition that "Iwata is the culprit". That is, in the company, there is a strong desire to make popular games such as "Super Mario" etc. for smartphones, but Iwata is vetoing this very strongly. Iwata, continually repeating that "Nintendo's strength is in unified development of game hardware and software", stubbornly rejects the "net", and fixates over "game consoles", possibly because of his pride as a former developer. With the death last fall of the long-reigning company founder Hiroshi Yamauchi, there is nobody left who can defy Iwata. There are frequent rumors that part of the management is scheming to get rid of Iwata.
There's another insider quote later which claims that there's cultural friction due to Iwata's coming from outside the company. It says that Iwata continues to take part in software development even after becoming president and looks down on Nintendo "natives" as being, not sure how exactly to translate this, not dedicated enough? (口ばかりで体を張っていない。) Meanwhile, said "natives" feel that Iwata ignores their opinions.
With three years of financial losses and poor start with this fiscal year, it's not surprising that there is some grumblings and malcontent feelings within the company. Whether this is leading to some sort of upheaval or not is something we aren't privy to until it happens.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 03, 2014, 06:35:46 AM
This reeks of a vocal minority trying to muscle their way into public opinion with a few choice quotes. Would love to see an accurate translation of the piece.
I think this is right on. If these quotes are legit, this is likely someone trying to pass this off as more than it is.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 03, 2014, 10:42:46 AM
Yeah if it was a large percentage of the management that wanted him gone, they would have done so by now. It's probably a few people at best, with none of them on the Board of Directors since Iwata has pretty much filled all the seats with his longtime friends over the years.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2014, 08:53:17 PM
For US companies, management and the board of directors are two separate bodies. Management refers to the executive board and their immediate sub-ordinates, people in charge of day-to-day operations, etc. While the Board is the Board. I dunno if it's the same for Japanese companies, but that could be problematic for Iwata if it's true.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 03, 2014, 11:54:40 PM
Big Brother: Nintendo Edition?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 04, 2014, 06:13:14 PM
I am unhappy with Iwata, he made the best game console in history (GameCube) and followed it up with a toy for the elderly. Only good thing he has ever done was remove that geezer Miyamoto from head of development.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2014, 06:30:44 PM
I am unhappy with Iwata, he made the best game console in history (GameCube) and followed it up with a toy for the elderly. Only good thing he has ever done was remove that geezer Miyamoto from head of development.
While I disagree with your sentiment, I'll point out that it's not all that accurate to say he made the GameCube, since he didn't take over the company until 2003.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 04, 2014, 09:20:27 PM
I am unhappy with Iwata, he made the best game console in history (GameCube) and followed it up with a toy for the elderly. Only good thing he has ever done was remove that geezer Miyamoto from head of development.
While I disagree with your sentiment, I'll point out that it's not all that accurate to say he made the GameCube, since he didn't take over the company until 2003.
I suck at sarcasm or you suck at reading me, take your pick.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2014, 09:24:51 PM
Sorry, I thought it might be, but I've seen enough people make similar arguments seriously that I took it as such.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Mop it up on August 04, 2014, 09:40:41 PM
RUMOR: NWR forum management unhappy with Insanolord.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2014, 09:43:11 PM
I *am* the forum management, and I have nothing but good things to say about insanolord.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Oblivion on August 04, 2014, 11:27:19 PM
I *am* the forum management, and I have nothing but good things to say about insanolord.
Isn't that pretty much the situation with Iwata?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 04, 2014, 11:48:17 PM
Iwata's actually probably in a better position than I am since he's largely stacked the board of directors with his own people and I have no say over who's the director of NWR.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 05, 2014, 06:18:45 AM
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 05, 2014, 01:23:40 PM
I find it very annoying that the concepts of firing Iwata and Nintendo moving to smartphones are so entwined. Now I understand how that could be a realistic possibility of Nintendo getting new management. What I find strange is that there appears to be a small group of Nintendo fans that seem to want Nintendo to go to smartphones. How would any fan benefit from that?
Though the whole scenario stinks. "Put up with this bullshit Wii U or things will be EVEN WORSE!!" My Nintendo fandom is totally in a lose-lose scenario.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 05, 2014, 05:26:14 PM
I wouldn't want them to go smart phones I never play any games there, I bought ONE Sonic game and I played it for five minutes, and I had to force myself to play it that long because I paid money for it. I would be OKAY with them going full third party in console and PC arena but keeping their handhelds exclusive but realistically that won't work either. I would also be okay with them doing what Atari and Sega do by releasing a couple retro consoles for the retro crowd who aren't into buying full on consoles, hell a system that just played Virtual Console games would be fine by me I would buy it in a heartbeat if the price was right.
The way they horde their very lucrative IP is what bothers most people I don't think its so much they just want their games on cell phones as they don't want to have to spend $300 bucks on a new console just for a few games, especially those who are just interested in the retro games I think Nintendo really needs to pay better attention to the retro scene and throw something out there to rake in the money or else they will sink. I know lots of people who might pick up one of those retro style consoles that looks like a classic SNES but has built in flash and can play VC games, they would make a **** tone of money off that, it would still be their hardware and they would still sell their games to the people who want them but aren't interested in the NEW stuff as much.
Atari and Sega might not be making a killing off their Retro stuff but a look at ANY used video game store, ebay, or amazon will tell you that Nintendo's retro stuff is in fucking insane demand. Not enough to get people to run out and buy a $300 dollar console but they could make lots of money selling a $50 retro themed machine that only plays the old games, it should theoratically also play carts too like some of the Sega Retro machines but flashed based loaded with access to the Virtual Console would satisfy most people and shut up the majority of the smartphone crowd and might put some much needed money in the bank to subsidize the losses Wii U is racking up.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Phil on August 05, 2014, 05:44:13 PM
Which anti-Nintendo neckbeard was rubbing his hands together and getting sweaty while writing this fan-fiction-esque slop?
That was overly mean, and I apologize. :(
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 05, 2014, 05:49:46 PM
Which anti-Nintendo neckbeard was rubbing his hands together and getting sweaty while writing this fan-fiction-esque slop?
That was overly mean, and I apologize. :(
Was that directed at me? How am I anti Nintendo? I love Nintendo when did I ever come off as anti-Nintendo? I had major issues with Wii U and how they handled that and I lost interest in Wii but I never said anything to come off as hating Nintendo, why the hell would I be here if I hated them?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Phil on August 05, 2014, 05:55:23 PM
Which anti-Nintendo neckbeard was rubbing his hands together and getting sweaty while writing this fan-fiction-esque slop?
That was overly mean, and I apologize. :(
Was that directed at me? How am I anti Nintendo? I love Nintendo when did I ever come off as anti-Nintendo? I had major issues with Wii U and how they handled that and I lost interest in Wii but I never said anything to come off as hating Nintendo, why the hell would I be here if I hated them?
No! No! No!
Talking about the original rumor!
I'm not mean to users here! So sorry!
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 05, 2014, 06:03:15 PM
I was confused no worries your still cool.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 05, 2014, 06:47:35 PM
I like marvel moviefan's idea about Nintendo offering some product for the retro gaming scene. Since old NES's are a huge bitch to get to work right I would love it if Nintendo released a new top loader. There are lots of machines that play old games but they do so with emulation which I'm not interested in. I would instantly snatch up a Nintendo produced system that used legit hardware and supported NES and SNES games (and if I'm being greedy lets throw in a Famicom slot or include N64 support). Hey and why don't they make it connect online to also support the VC so you can buy downloads or play with old legit carts? I can see a disapproval of "used games" (as if 20 year old out-of-print carts are eating into Nintendo's bottom line) but if they had VC support with it then they can't complain that such a product would eat into VC sales. If anything it would encourage it.
Of course retro console clones exist and they sell and Nintendo currentlys gets absolutely no revenue from it at all. The old carts will continue to sell with Nintendo not getting a dime unless Nintendo lobbies to change the law on used sales or Nintendo starts buying the old copies themselves to remove them from the market. There is a demand and there is a product that's making money off the demand. Nintendo could either make it their product or they can continue to make nothing from it.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 05, 2014, 08:35:17 PM
I read that Kim Kardashian's game raked in 200 million.
That's not gonna help our situation.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: lolmonade on August 06, 2014, 12:32:49 PM
I don't think any gamer should take issue with Nintendo releasing games on mobile phones, provided the following: 1) It doesn't affect their ability to release games on their own platforms in a timely manner. 2) They're not microtransaction filled time/money sink versions of classic games 3) They don't stop making their own dedicated handhelds to get the meaty game experiences.
I just assume they're incapable of providing mobile offerings without breaking at least one of these conditions.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 06, 2014, 12:50:04 PM
I don't think any gamer should take issue with Nintendo releasing games on mobile phones, provided the following: 1) It doesn't affect their ability to release games on their own platforms in a timely manner. 2) They're not microtransaction filled time/money sink versions of classic games 3) They don't stop making their own dedicated handhelds to get the meaty game experiences.
I just assume they're incapable of providing mobile offerings without breaking at least one of these conditions.
I would expect Nintendo to break Rules number 1 easily. 2 I am not so sure and 3 doesn't sound like them at all.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 06, 2014, 01:24:47 PM
Microtransactions are pretty much the only way anybody's had success with in terms of making real money in that arena, so if Nintendo weren't going to employ them it wouldn't make sense at all to jump into the mobile market.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 06, 2014, 02:54:41 PM
I was concerned about Nintendo expanding their audience to include casuals and damn near everything I was concerned about came true. So, yeah, I don't trust that Nintendo would do phone games right. I don't see how the fans could come ahead. If the concept failed Nintendo would be in worse shape than they are now. If it succeeded, why would they bother to make "real" games for us if the smartphone market was where the money was? That was my big concern with the Wii - if the casual audience, who has considerably lower standards than we do, makes them more money why would they bother to continue to cater to us? While the Wii was selling big, Nintendo seemed to have almost no interest in improving their product because they didn't have to and a lot of the Wii's flaws carried over to the Wii U because they assumed the casuals would transition to it.
So if they're making smartphone money, with "games" that are a whole lot shittier and take a whole lot less money and effort to make, why are they going to bust their ass to make some great Zelda game for a smaller audience? Cheap half-assed product selling in high volume to an audience that doesn't give a **** about quality is a dream scenario for any company. You shouldn't want any company you like to make money with a sub-standard product.
The whole idea is pretty idiotic anyway since so much of Nintendo's strategy is in hardware and they would lose that if they went with phones. Unless they made a Nintendo phone that is the exclusive platform for their smartphone games but would you honestly expect them to get something like that right? Smartphone development would only make sense if they went third party.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 06, 2014, 03:56:01 PM
Mobile games would cost less to make, but also only bring in, at most, a few bucks a pop, at least without microtransaction bullshit. Zelda's a lot more expensive to make, but they can also sell it for 30 times the price of a mobile game.
I think it would be possible to do both, but it'd be an extremely fine line to walk. They'd need to be complementary to the meatier console/dedicated handheld titles, but not so much that it'd turn people off from buying the dedicated hardware. It would be really tough to pull off, and I don't think I'd bet on any company doing so, especially Nintendo.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 06, 2014, 09:33:21 PM
Mobile games would cost less to make, but also only bring in, at most, a few bucks a pop, at least without microtransaction bullshit. Zelda's a lot more expensive to make, but they can also sell it for 30 times the price of a mobile game.
I think it would be possible to do both, but it'd be an extremely fine line to walk. They'd need to be complementary to the meatier console/dedicated handheld titles, but not so much that it'd turn people off from buying the dedicated hardware. It would be really tough to pull off, and I don't think I'd bet on any company doing so, especially Nintendo.
That sounds like square enix's final fantasy mobile strategy, would likely work about as well also.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2014, 11:15:10 PM
I don't want Nintendo making games on smartphones because that's not the kind of company Nintendo is, nor the kind of company I like to support. Nintendo makes some of the best games money can buy. Smartphones aren't the platform for the best games. Nintendo systems are designed to make the best games, phones are designed for twitter and text messaging. I know I sound really fanboy-ish right now, but seeing Nintendo make smartphone games would really bother me.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: lolmonade on August 07, 2014, 10:07:08 AM
Microtransactions are pretty much the only way anybody's had success with in terms of making real money in that arena, so if Nintendo weren't going to employ them it wouldn't make sense at all to jump into the mobile market.
Let me rephrase my point then, provided it's not something like the old arcade system where you had to pay for more lives, and more like "pay $0.99 for the spare mushroom power-up 3 pack" on a mario game, I wouldn't be against it.
That said, I wouldn't bother to buy a Nintendo mobile phone game, unless they were strategy games or something that lended well to the platform, like Advance Wars.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: lolmonade on August 07, 2014, 10:19:48 AM
I don't want Nintendo making games on smartphones because that's not the kind of company Nintendo is, nor the kind of company I like to support. Nintendo makes some of the best games money can buy. Smartphones aren't the platform for the best games. Nintendo systems are designed to make the best games, phones are designed for twitter and text messaging. I know I sound really fanboy-ish right now, but seeing Nintendo make smartphone games would really bother me.
You see, I get the argument you're making, but the Wii U and 3DS reek of Nintendo making a first effort into a console/handheld as a multimedia device, falling flat on their face, and instead of fixing the issues and offering what the customer expects, retreating back into their cave while yelling "WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN JUST ABOUT THE GAMES, GUYS!".
3D gaming has limited appeal, Wii U's gamepad has been touted for the off-TV play feature, but let's be honest that they beat their chest quite a bit about TVii and how it would change the way you interact with not only your cable subscription, but your streaming services. Hell, 3DS has that Nintendo video app where they stream random music videos and Dinosaur Office episodes.
Nintendo is great at video games, provided you don't expect robust online features for them outside of MarioKart. The Wii U and 3DS probably have my favorite games of the generation so far. That said, despite all their vocal statements that they won't be entering the mobile market, don't be shocked when they decide it's too alluring and start releasing NES games and specific mobile minigame collecions on iOS & android devices.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2014, 12:53:17 PM
3DS and Wii U have been missteps in terms of designing hardware specifically to make games. I can totally agree with that. But Nintendo needed to enter the 21st century, and I'm hoping this are just growing pains. Sony and MS both learned a lot from their first forays into the HD realm, and I'm sure Nintendo will too.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 01:25:34 PM
I don't think Nintendo should be getting into Mobile, MS and Sony are moving away from that market so unless Nintendo thinks they can claim it all to themselves they need to stay out of it. I DO think they would make a killing on a low cost Retro themed console that was basically just a Virtual Console machine that could connect to the internet or something similar to the Sega/Atari retro consoles, not the knock off ones the official ones.
Wii U had a lot of problems going in and so far they have failed to address the most obvious ones. The best they can do now is release the best software they can make and hope that is enough. It is too late to re-do the hardware and they don't even know what mistakes they made with it based on what they say about it.
They could get away with releasing their top retro games on mobile markets and even Steam if they cared to but they would have to spin off the Virtual Console separate from Wii/Wii U and I don't realistically see them doing that either so that is why people are upset they want the classic games but don't want to have to pay for the new console just for the classic games and classic hardware is getting harder to come by.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2014, 02:43:02 PM
Part of what makes the phone stuff so idiotic is that smartphones are the main competitor of the 3DS. Putting games on smartphones would be like releasing games on the PS4 and expecting people to still buy the Wii U. Nintendo exclusivity is a big selling point for the 3DS. Imagine if they put Pokemon on smartphones. It would kill their handheld market almost single-handedly.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 07, 2014, 03:31:01 PM
I want an eShop console where I can play Shovel Knight on cartridge with a wired controller on a CRT with an rf adapter and drink Tang.
"My future is only in the past."
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 03:40:09 PM
I don't know that I'd call mobile phones their main competitor; the 3DS library, at least from Nintendo, is predominantly made up of larger, more substantial games, compared to the simple stuff on phones. The realities of how money is made in the mobile arena wouldn't allow Nintendo to throw real, full support behind that platform.
Honestly, I'm not sure the 3DS has any real legitimate competitor right now. I love my Vita, but I'm under no illusion that it's on the same level as 3DS in terms of software support. Still, Sony's strategy there, while different from Nintendo's, is a lot closer to Nintendo than smartphones are,
If Nintendo does support mobile phones at some point it'll most likely be smaller, complementary things that are primarily designed to say "Hey, this is pretty good, right? Well if you go buy this dedicated hardware you can get an even better version of it."
Apple only made the iTunes Store in the first place to make the iPod more desirable. Phone games/apps would be a means to an end, convincing people to go out and buy a Wii V or a 6DS. As I said earlier in the thread, though, it's a fine line to walk.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 07, 2014, 05:00:42 PM
there are two discussions going on simultaneously about mobile and that is why Nintendo can't do it right. I would hate for them to go all in or even release current made for mobile games unless they were just to promote the big stuff. BUT I think most people just want them to put out stuff like Dr. Mario, original DK, maybe some stuff like that the classics people are all dying for but not wanting to spend a fortune on.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 05:49:49 PM
You can't make games with the scale and level of polish most of what Nintendo puts out have, there's no way you could make your money back. Going all-in doesn't make sense, and doesn't seem to have worked out especially well for the major traditional publishers who've tried it.
The kind of thing Nintendo should do is have an official Nintendo Pokedex app on there with all the detailed info on everything. There are already things like that on there, but in this case Nintendo would have the marketing advantage and the ability to get the other ones taken down of they wanted to.
To be effective, they need it to be something that expands upon their console/handheld games, but not so much that people feel like they can just get the mobile games without the bigger stuff.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 07, 2014, 06:09:06 PM
I didn't read anything on this page other than the 1st post which I will quote and then reply to. sorry if anything has already been said.
I find it very annoying that the concepts of firing Iwata and Nintendo moving to smartphones are so entwined. Now I understand how that could be a realistic possibility of Nintendo getting new management. What I find strange is that there appears to be a small group of Nintendo fans that seem to want Nintendo to go to smartphones. How would any fan benefit from that?
Though the whole scenario stinks. "Put up with this bullshit Wii U or things will be EVEN WORSE!!" My Nintendo fandom is totally in a lose-lose scenario.
$0.99 VC games? what the majority of them should really cost.
and speaking of that. The only games Nintendo should be bringing to mobile in these here technological times of 2014 is a self contained (but shared) VC service. The VC games would be official from Nintendo, and would expand the audience by so much, that it would justify lowering the game prices down to $0.99-$4.99 with occasional $0.10 game deals $4.99 game bundle packs. Nintendo could be the Steam of old ass console games from generations ago. everything from Atari, NES, SNES, Sega MS, Genesis/Nomad, N64, Saturn, NeoGeo/P, GB/C/A, 3DS, DS/i, GameGear, TG-16/e, PCE, 3DO, Jaguar, (GC & Wii)*, Arcade and indie PC games.
*only playable on home console
Even sell a bluetooth gamepad that clamps around your phone, and you are golden. $1B in earnings on 100+M users within the 2nd year from launch. You can play your games from any compatible cell phone or Nintendo Device when logged into your universal ClubN account. This allows you to play games on the go, in the bathroom, on the couch or up on the bigscreen.
This is so fucking easy, I just don't get why it hasn't been done yet. this money has been sitting on the table for so long, that I think most of it has blown down onto the floor as the idea keeps going over Nintendo's head like a warm summer breeze.
it's ridiculous.
Now the share holders are happy, and Nintendo can get back to making console specific games that can only be done on their consoles. win win situation. just do it already.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 07:34:43 PM
1. Nintendo will never, ever sell a game at a 99 cent price point. 2. If they were willing to cut the price of VC games they would have done so on 3DS and/or Wii U. 3. Number 2 again, except replace "cut the price" with "cross-buy." 4. Game controllers designed to clamp onto phones exist, but all the ones I've seen are $70+, more than any console controller.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Shaymin on August 07, 2014, 07:42:48 PM
5. If you're pulling out a controller to clamp onto your phone you might as well pull out a 3DS and save your phone's battery for, I dunno, communication.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 07, 2014, 07:45:13 PM
I like the idea of cheaper VC games but I don't need them on a phone. What I'd like is cross-compatibility between console and handheld so I can buy the game once on the Wii U and then play it on my 3DS if I'm on the go. Having different stores with different games is idiotic. I suppose it could become cross-compatible between Wii U, 3DS and phone but phone support doesn't need to be there to make the concept a reality.
I feel a bluetooth gamepad for phones would destroy the public impression of the 3DS's need to exist. Hardcore gamers will know better but the mainstream won't. I consider smartphones to be the 3DS's main competition because we all know Nintendo wanted it to be the next DS but it is not getting to that level because the casual portion of the DS audience is content with their phones. The DS was a universal handheld for all audiences while the 3DS is more for dedicated gamers that want more depth than a phone game provides. That wasn't Nintendo's goal. Smartphones have taken away a big chunk of their audience and any future videogame handheld has to work harder to justify its usefulness. Making games play BETTER on phones will drive more consumers away from handhelds. Right now the whole point of owning a 3DS is effectively because smartphones are inadequate videogame players. Take that advantage away and it just seems pointless to carry around two devices if you could get away with one. And take their handheld success away and how long do you think Nintendo lasts as a videogame company?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2014, 08:23:48 PM
6. Once people see Nintendo release games outside their systems, people will become infinitely more reluctant to buy Nintendo systems.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 08:34:59 PM
It's a highwire act. They'd need to be substantial enough to get people to care but not so much that they're seen as a valid alternative to dedicated hardware.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 07, 2014, 08:37:57 PM
1. Nintendo will never, ever sell a game at a 99 cent price point. 2. If they were willing to cut the price of VC games they would have done so on 3DS and/or Wii U. 3. Number 2 again, except replace "cut the price" with "cross-buy." 4. Game controllers designed to clamp onto phones exist, but all the ones I've seen are $70+, more than any console controller.
1 & 2. Like I said, if they got an additional 100 million cell phone users to sign up to ClubN through whatever phone app, and purchase a few $.99 games, that would more than justify dropping the price. 3. This self contained VC service would be on whatever systems Nintendo wants to put it on. You buy the game once, it's in your ClubN connected account, and now you can play it one whatever device you have on hand as long as you have compatible controls available. 4. Nintendo could corner the market on bluetooth controller and set the controller standard for cell phones.start selling these controller shells for $29.99/$39.99 and rake in the profits.
This appeases the shareholders, expands their audience and in the process significantly raises Nintendo's awareness among the casual gamers and the awareness of all their brands. They can even market the eShop and Nintendo dedicated hardware for a more immersive gaming experience with bigger, better games that can only be played on "Wii U/3DS" or whatever the successors are.
*and I didn't mean to include the 3DS in the included systems on the previous post.
But I think this plan wouldn't compromise Nintendo's core business, but actually properly supplement it and inject additional funding towards actually supporting the VC with timely releases and increased catalog.
on the other hand, Nintendo absolutely should not move into making any original games for cell phones, only resell all the old ones that fit in the VC service.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2014, 08:41:37 PM
It's a highwire act. They'd need to be substantial enough to get people to care but not so much that they're seen as a valid alternative to dedicated hardware.
Call me cynical, but the second Nintendo puts out a press release announcing anything like that, the headlines will read: "Nintendo FINALLY Goes Third Party", "Beginning of the End: Nintendo's First Release on iOS", "EDITORIAL: Why Nintendo's Newest Release Spells the End of the Nintendo Console". Et cetera, et cetera.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 07, 2014, 08:56:26 PM
Probably, but we still see articles like that all the time even with Nintendo swearing up and down they won't do it.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2014, 09:20:06 PM
But it would add so much more fuel to that fire.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 07, 2014, 09:43:32 PM
any news is good news. as long as they are talking about you.
I think the idea makes too much business sense to really happen, and it's not exactly what the shareholders had in mind (just another plus towards making it happen... it would be giving them what they asked for "technically" with out doing what they intended.). It would be cheap to implement and also giving the existing userbase exactly what they want and deserve for being loyal/supportive this whole time.
Hell, they could even make it a subscription based service. Play all you want for $14.99 mo. I'm sure some people might go for that.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2014, 10:58:38 PM
Hell, they could even make it a subscription based service. Play all you want for $14.99 mo. I'm sure some people might go for that.
I would absolutely love a Nintendo equivalent to PlayStation Plus. I think the only reason they aren't doing it is because they have that sort of stubborn, prideful attitude for not copying from their competitors, even when they really should.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 09, 2014, 12:48:18 AM
Yeah lets not forget this is the company that had Squere/FF safely tucked away in their camp and let them get away because they refused to make a console that used CD ROM, which they have technically not done even to this day. The same company when they did get around to using industry standard DVD, they left out the movie part intentionally, and the same company that swore up and down online was not really worth the effort and have shown no intentions of correcting that stance, they were dragged online against their will kicking and screaming and would kill to return to the glory days where the industry bowed to their will.
Honestly if it wasn't for eShop/VC I think Nintendo would still be resiting online entirely, somebody probably had to really twist their arms to see that as a revenue stream and hey look at their efforts to get their games on that service clearly they are still resisting being online period.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 13, 2014, 09:45:34 AM
any news is good news. as long as they are talking about you.
Nope this isn't true. What is written is extremely important for the image of a company, individual, political party. This idea of any publicity is good publicity or any news is good news is such a silly notion.
Nintendo does not want their name to be linked with stories of going 3rd party.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 13, 2014, 12:09:53 PM
I think it could backfire on them if the suggested going third party but they could THREATEN to go third party to get third parties back on board. Think about it 3rd parties are scared to put their games on Nintendo consoles because they can't compete with Nintendo. Now suppose Nintendo went to someone small like Capcom whose games are the most similar to Nintendo and said listen we need your help put games on our machine or we might have no choice but to go third party and Capcom/Konomi and Sega all three would lose to a Nintendo who was emboldened by a new market and unrestricted by their platform. Seriously going third party might not be bad for Nintendo but it would be devastating for the rest of the industry they could leverage that to get support back if they were tactful about it.
I don't think their games are so great because they are tied to the hardware the hardware is fucking limiting to their designers give them damn near unlimited resources and a traditional game console controller that hard core gamers and casual gamers are already interested in, the people who are clamoring for Nintendo games but don't want to buy two systems suddenly flock back to buying Nintendo games and everybody else goes bankrupt and Sony is forced to cut a deal to keep Nintendo exclusive to their platform to protect the motherland.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 13, 2014, 12:31:15 PM
I think it could backfire on them if the suggested going third party but they could THREATEN to go third party to get third parties back on board. Think about it 3rd parties are scared to put their games on Nintendo consoles because they can't compete with Nintendo. Now suppose Nintendo went to someone small like Capcom whose games are the most similar to Nintendo and said listen we need your help put games on our machine or we might have no choice but to go third party and Capcom/Konomi and Sega all three would lose to a Nintendo who was emboldened by a new market and unrestricted by their platform. Seriously going third party might not be bad for Nintendo but it would be devastating for the rest of the industry they could leverage that to get support back if they were tactful about it.
Third parties aren't scared to compete with Nintendo. The Wii U is selling like **** and the token third party efforts at the Wii U launch all bombed. THAT is why third parties are avoiding the Wii U. Nintendo is also the hardest console maker to work with. And if they were afraid of competing with Nintendo why would Nintendo threatening to go third party attract support? Don't the third parties have to compete with Nintendo either way?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 13, 2014, 02:27:36 PM
that is why I said it could backfire but it is strategy they could pull not directly threatening but you know dropping hints. I don't know it seems to me like the ONLY way to gain third party support is to just make a PS4 equivalent and suck up to everyone with money hats and that is a poor business model to follow.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 13, 2014, 03:27:13 PM
I think teasing going third party would cause their stock to drop and would pretty much kill the Wii U off for good and maybe even the 3DS. Going third party means their existing systems are effectively discontinued and no one is going to buy them if they think Nintendo is discontinuing them any time soon. It's like how the Saturn was toast once that idiot Bernie Stolar publicly stated that it wasn't Sega's future.
The strategy is not that complicated. Make a console that developers want to support and consumers want to buy. Make sure it has a steady release of quality games. There is no trick to it, it's just competency and hard work. Wacky strategies is why the Wii U is a flop. "Well we have no games and no third party support but our controller looks like a tablet so everyone will just be so mesmorized that they won't notice!" Nintendo thinking they're King **** and can cut corners everywhere and jerk their customers and business associates around the whole time has blown up in their face. They ride out this gen (since they're clearly not abandoning the Wii U) and next time stop fucking around for the first time in 20 years and maybe they'll bounce back if they haven't completely burned all their bridges.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on August 13, 2014, 06:33:27 PM
any news is good news. as long as they are talking about you.
Nope this isn't true. What is written is extremely important for the image of a company, individual, political party. This idea of any publicity is good publicity or any news is good news is such a silly notion.
Nintendo does not want their name to be linked with stories of going 3rd party.
As opposed to no one giving a ****? At least someone cares enough for it to be news or discussion worthy in the first place, which is why the saying exist.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: nickmitch on August 13, 2014, 09:31:30 PM
The strategy is not that complicated. Make a console that developers want to support and consumers want to buy. Make sure it has a steady release of quality games. There is no trick to it, it's just competency and hard work. Wacky strategies is why the Wii U is a flop. "Well we have no games and no third party support but our controller looks like a tablet so everyone will just be so mesmorized that they won't notice!" Nintendo thinking they're King **** and can cut corners everywhere and jerk their customers and business associates around the whole time has blown up in their face.
That's still easier said than done. Nintendo needs to find way to decrease the development cycle without compromising game quality, build a better support network for devs, and a whole host of other things.
But yeah, they do need to get their heads out of their asses first.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 15, 2014, 03:12:45 PM
The strategy is not that complicated. Make a console that developers want to support and consumers want to buy. Make sure it has a steady release of quality games. There is no trick to it, it's just competency and hard work. Wacky strategies is why the Wii U is a flop. "Well we have no games and no third party support but our controller looks like a tablet so everyone will just be so mesmorized that they won't notice!" Nintendo thinking they're King **** and can cut corners everywhere and jerk their customers and business associates around the whole time has blown up in their face.
That's still easier said than done. Nintendo needs to find way to decrease the development cycle without compromising game quality, build a better support network for devs, and a whole host of other things.
But yeah, they do need to get their heads out of their asses first.
It's a huge amount of work but no one forced Nintendo to dig the pit they're in. Had they done the "fix all the stupid **** we're doing" strategy back with the Gamecube then they wouldn't have to deal with an additional three generations of screw-ups. They've been ducking their problems for multiple console generations now. I think the most insurmountable part of this is that the guys on top are the same guys that dug the hole. To fix things they have to admit they have made mistakes, recognize what those mistakes are and know what the correct course of action is to address them. Well if they knew how to do THAT then why make the mistake in the first place? Why not address these mistakes in prior generations, particularly when something like poor third party support has been a problem for 18 years? If they knew how to fix the problem why wouldn't they have done so at least ten years ago?
That's probably the main reason why anyone is calling for Iwata's head or any sort of major management turnover. Everyone involved in the major decisions has been a long term employee of Nintendo. Realistically the chronic problems that never get resolved were introduced by the same people calling the shots now. The negative aspects of Nintendo's corporate culture are long engrained in Nintendo management. The possibility of improvement from the same guys that largely fucked everything up or were mentored by those guys seems to be nil. How could it happen? Iwata would have to be one of the most humble and self-conscious people in history to accurately recognize his mistakes, know how to solve them and be willing to address them without any concern of losing face or bruising his ego.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 15, 2014, 03:54:00 PM
Unless Gunpei Yokoi built a time machine that's been sitting on a dusty shelf in the basement of NCL the last 30 years, what happened in the past is irrelevant to Nintendo's decision making process in this regard. It doesn't matter if Iwata was part of the reason they're here; all that matters is whether he's a good choice to lead the company going forward. And honestly, no one reading these forums knows whether or not he is. I'm not sure if anyone truly does, but it would take a lot more familiarity with the internal workings of Nintendo than anyone here has.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: oohhboy on August 16, 2014, 01:40:41 AM
Ok, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my phone to an iPhone and while it is a slick kit the Games on it are universally awful even after you have waded pass the infinite number of click to farm "games". The vagueness of the controls would automatically send the control centric Nintendo packing. The games mostly don't take into account differing screens shapes an resolutions resulting in unusable UI.
Then there is the app store itself which just vomits "Free" IAP games everywhere and you can't filter them. Even if you are Nintendo, good luck getting your game sold pass the click farm games. Then there are the duplicate entries, "Lite" Versions, Paid IAP that is gold/gem/wood, more click farm games, fucking outright lies, iAds and no I don't want a game account or to share this diarrhoea. The e-shop is a surprising massive step up from all this.
Good thing I never had any intention to play games on the thing as it is an absolutely horrible platform for it. If Nintendo does go Zynga, I will be the first to go while I pour a forty out for Nintendo. That said there are some nice apps for normal, everyday things.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2014, 05:05:35 AM
The strategy Nintendo needs to pursue next system is simple…and I don't think it is what everyone things.
1) Make the System Nintendo wants to make. Hardware be damned if it is too expensive to develop for. I don't care. I just want good games. 2) Make the System extremely easy to develop for. If that means using similar specs as other systems go for it. If that means gaining the support of the leading 3D Graphics Engine and what not. Get whatever you need and make developers happy. 3) Make it extremely easy for developers to make a profit on your system. I am talking cheap development kits, cheap royalty fees. I am thinking royalty fees could be as low as 12-15% until you hit X units sold, then it jumps to 20% royalty fees. 4) Have built in functions for internet, chat, and everything you need for online play built into the OS so that developers do not have to worry about that.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2014, 04:08:27 PM
Ok, I finally bit the bullet and upgraded my phone to an iPhone and while it is a slick kit the Games on it are universally awful even after you have waded pass the infinite number of click to farm "games". The vagueness of the controls would automatically send the control centric Nintendo packing. The games mostly don't take into account differing screens shapes an resolutions resulting in unusable UI.
Then there is the app store itself which just vomits "Free" IAP games everywhere and you can't filter them. Even if you are Nintendo, good luck getting your game sold pass the click farm games. Then there are the duplicate entries, "Lite" Versions, Paid IAP that is gold/gem/wood, more click farm games, fucking outright lies, iAds and no I don't want a game account or to share this diarrhoea. The e-shop is a surprising massive step up from all this.
Good thing I never had any intention to play games on the thing as it is an absolutely horrible platform for it. If Nintendo does go Zynga, I will be the first to go while I pour a forty out for Nintendo. That said there are some nice apps for normal, everyday things.
Ticket to Ride and Settlers of Catana are suppose to be good. I can vouch for Ticket to Ride.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: oohhboy on August 16, 2014, 05:11:53 PM
That's because they are well designed board games. But its a shame that only the iPad version looks playable. For some reason Ticket to Ride is two different apps for Europe/USA on the phone. The physical limitations of the phone is going to put me off even trying to play games. If I was using an iPad maybe, but I really don't need or want an iPad.
I can also see why Nintendo went with a resistive screen on the WiiU/3DS - Its a lot more responsive and harder to fuckup an input. Use a stylus, both the response and accuracy gets even better.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 16, 2014, 05:30:09 PM
I can also see why Nintendo went with a resistive screen on the WiiU/3DS - Its a lot more responsive and harder to fuckup an input. Use a stylus, both the response and accuracy gets even better.
Let's not kid ourselves; Nintendo chose resistive touch screens because they're cheaper and require the least amount of effort in terms of compatibility with their older hardware. But like with load times on the N64, there are beneficial side-effects to Nintendo's short-sighted, self-serving decisions.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: ShyGuy on August 16, 2014, 10:27:04 PM
You're a short-sighted self-serving decision!
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 16, 2014, 11:17:04 PM
And proud of it.
EDIT: All my hardware is proprietary and both highly exclusive and extremely expensive, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Oblivion on August 16, 2014, 11:27:55 PM
Is your hardware also extremely underpowered compared to its competition?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Shaymin on August 16, 2014, 11:37:01 PM
EDIT: All my hardware is proprietary and both highly exclusive and extremely expensive, if you know what I mean.
pix plz
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: broodwars on August 17, 2014, 01:44:20 AM
I started doing some Android gaming myself lately after recently upgrading my phone as well (to a OnePlusOne, if you're curious). While I can vouch for some genuinely good games on the Play Store like Deus Ex: The Fall; Dead Space (mobile); Hitman Go; and Angry Birds Epic (all of which are devoid of pushy in-app purchases, at least compared to the likes of Candy Crush), it feels like 99.9% of the games on the series are either reskins of the EXACT same "Match 3" sliding tile game...or badly-converted ports of console experiences. While I feel that Nintendo is going to have to support the mobile platform going forward, I honestly don't know what they could do to stand out in a market so utterly devoid of quality experiences. Having experience with the platform has certainly changed my view of the viability of that market.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 17, 2014, 02:30:48 PM
Is your hardware also extremely underpowered compared to its competition?
Sometimes, but I make up for that with creative new input methods.
Some women might call that a "gimmick". ;)
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 17, 2014, 03:07:11 PM
Many ladies love a man with simple, easy access controls.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 17, 2014, 03:13:28 PM
Something about Mommy Bloggers.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Mop it up on August 17, 2014, 05:17:52 PM
RUMOR: NWR forum goers unhappy with Funhouse.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 17, 2014, 10:35:19 PM
If you've got a problem with the Funhouse then I've got a problem with you.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: ShyGuy on August 17, 2014, 10:55:04 PM
Funhouse should go third party.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 17, 2014, 11:32:38 PM
I will fix it give me mod powers for a day I promise to clean up this place.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Ian Sane on August 18, 2014, 01:38:09 PM
Quote
The vagueness of the controls would automatically send the control centric Nintendo packing. The games mostly don't take into account differing screens shapes an resolutions resulting in unusable UI.
I've been trying to think of a really good term to describe the flaws of Iwata-era Nintendo's approach to controls and "vagueness" is perfect. Ironic that you used it in an argument praising Nintendo's controls. The second Nintendo grafted wonky touchscreen and motion controls to their systems they ceased to give the slightest **** about decent controls. A controller is seen as a marketing gimmick first, useful tool second. The limits of smartphone controls is not going factor into Nintendo's decision. This is the company that released outright trash like DK Barrel Blast. Quality control will not matter. They will make this decision based purely on its financial potential.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: oohhboy on August 18, 2014, 02:13:59 PM
Experimental is what I would use for Nintendo. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Vagueness is a factor in it's non-core titles. But look at the mainline Mario games, Pikmin or Mario Kart, the controls in those games are tight. That said, I have every form of control for the WiiU for those core games, so I can pick and chose what is better for me within reason. Those extra controls or what you call gimmicks give options for me and developers.
It's a shame Nintendo doesn't have more support, but things can't go your way all the time. One last interesting titbit, I never owned a Wii. Good figure.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 18, 2014, 02:42:53 PM
NWR makes nothing but the same dozen or so Ian Sane posts rehashed every year.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Khushrenada on August 18, 2014, 06:30:55 PM
I think you are losing it. Vagueness is not at all how I'd describe the controls in the Iwata era. Oohboy is probably right with experimentation.
To me, the Iwata era is Nintendo trying to move past button inputs to discover new control methods that might spur game development into a new direction. You had the bongos and microphone GC additions in the later GC era. The DS with its ideas of touch screen, duel screen, microphone input. The Wii with Motion control, the balance board, the updated zap gun. Although not from Nintendo, Guitar Hero and Rockband were able to benefit from this new game control experimentation that was going on. The Zelda games on the DS could have been done with button controls but they tried to experiment with a new control scheme by using the touch screen. Kirby had Canvas Curse. We saw Wii Sports, Wii Music, converting GC games to have Motion controls like Pikmin, Mario Power Tennis or Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. This testing of new ways to play.
Maybe some of these things should have stayed experimental instead of being released but I think part of it was that Nintendo may have been unsure what the new audience would like or how they'd respond to such new ways to play and so they wanted to get the public's reaction. Even mixing motion controls with button controls was a new form of control. With this change in user input methods, I think Nintendo became unsure of what might be considered good or bad since it was new and unproven. Plus, the danger is that a program/software designer knows how their product should work or how they would use it but a new user can have totally different expectations and do things the designer would never have thought of. That's why there's debuggin and testing of programs and software before they are released. It could be the same with Nintendo where the designers could use these new input methods well or expected users to follow their expectation of how they would be used and it turned out to be totally different when actually released.
While this experimentation does seem to have toned down, it hasn't fully gone away. However, I see Nintendo trying to build on this past decade of ideas now and getting better at knowing what is working and what isn't. There wasn't much change in the 3DS from the DS and the Wii U is a furthing of the DS ideas along with Wii. This may also have something to do with developers and designers in Nintendo now being raised and trained on creating games with these input methods as well than older traditional button models. Hence why there was the "Mario Design School" we heard about with the release of all the New Super Mario Bros. games. While this experimentation can have a great impact when done right as shown by the DS and Wii juggernaut as well as the Guitar Hero/Rock Band impact that happened for a couple years, it can also be a great danger when it doesn't take off and can make a consumer wary when they are no longer sure what they may be getting or will be offered by allowing experimentation to run free.
There are some people who can go to a restaurant and continually try different items on the menu and some who will go and get the same thing over and over because they like it. I'd say the Iwata era is focusing more on the former and lesser on the latter and that may actually be a big part of the whole core vs casual gamer issue that arose in the Wii era than just what franchises or games were released. Look at what people consider core games, EA sports games like Madden, Fifa or NHL, Call of Duty, Halo, and others. They are games with very few changes in gameplay or style. Call of Duty could be considered an exception with it going from a WW2 shooter to Modern Day but since that change, it looks to have stayed pretty consistent from game to game but I've never played any so I'm just surmising. Still, that is the impression of core games on other systems.
You get to Nintendo where people consider core games to be Mario and Zelda and yet look at how much they will change things up on those titles. We've gone from Sunshine to Galaxy to 3D World and they are all different styles and changes in control methods. You could argue it is the same basic formula or core mechanic of running and jumping to the goal but compared to other systems, these are changes with varying responses by players to them. Zelda has gone from Twilight Princess (which I played on GC so I consider it traditional controls) to DS games and then Skyward Sword to more traditional with 3DS to who knows what now. You could call F-Zero a core title in that it has a great barrior to entry compared to Mario Kart, is more difficult and so is thus suited towards a regular gamer than one dabbles occasionally. Yet, Nintendo is reluctant to make another one unless they can find some new mechanic for it. Yet, Madden gets games released over and over, Call of Duty has games released over and over without trying to come up with new gameplay mechanics. F-Zero fans aren't asking for new mechanics. They'll take the same mechanics. They just want new tracks. Something that will test their racing skills. Although it could just be a way of deflecting that the series doesn't sell well and the Wii U userbase is too low to make an entry for it. Yet, Star Fox is finally getting a new entry because there is a new control method to be used for it. One of the odd exceptions is the New Super Mario Bros. series which has been blasted as being the same over and over. Yet, while it may be criticised for doing little to innovate, sales for it show that many gamers are happy to have the same old over and over.
Anyways, I've ranted on long enough. I was hit with inspiration and now I'm not sure I've made as definitive a point or statement as what seemed to occur to me so I'll leave it to others to pick over the pieces and figure out if there is anything worth following up on.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: Mop it up on August 18, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
If you've got a problem with the Funhouse then I've got a problem with you.
Yes I have a problem with the Funhouse!
The problem is that the Funhouse isn't funny anymore, and so people are making jokes in other threads instead, like this one. So it seems people might be unhappy with the Funhouse, and therefore the rumor started.
NEW RUMOR: Funhousers unhappy with Mop it up.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: pokepal148 on August 18, 2014, 08:04:33 PM
It's a tendoboy thread. Who cares if this one gets derailed, he'll make 6 more of them tomorrow anyways.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 21, 2014, 02:52:13 PM
I like that Nintendo experiments with controls but I don't like that they can't keep the traditional as the core and release these others as add-ons like they used to.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 21, 2014, 02:56:24 PM
The Wii U GamePad *is* a traditional controller. It has extra stuff like the touch screen but devs don't need to use it. The only Nintendo system to experiment at the expense of traditional controls was the Wii; DS, 3DS and Wii U include both.
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: ShyGuy on August 21, 2014, 03:16:39 PM
And maybe N64?
Title: Re: RUMOR: Nintendo management unhappy with Iwata
Post by: marvel_moviefan_2012 on August 21, 2014, 03:25:21 PM
The Wii U GamePad *is* a traditional controller. It has extra stuff like the touch screen but devs don't need to use it. The only Nintendo system to experiment at the expense of traditional controls was the Wii; DS, 3DS and Wii U include both.
I was talking about Wii, I have stated a thousand times I do not have a Wii U. *MY* issue with Wii U has always been value, to me it is too much money for what it is. I don't have an issue with the controls because I never tried them. I will get a Wii U when it comes down in price or gets more games which ever comes first.
