Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Caterkiller on December 12, 2012, 12:39:55 PM
Title: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Caterkiller on December 12, 2012, 12:39:55 PM
Kotaku asks developers about their upcoming bigger games to see if they are coming to the Wii U. Not very encouraging. ]http://kotaku.com/5967668/most-of-early-2013s-biggest-games-seem-to-be-skipping-wii-u (http://kotaku.com/5967668/most-of-early-2013s-biggest-games-seem-to-be-skipping-wii-u)
Whether this is what we should expect for the rest of its life we'll just have to see. Nintendo is just eternally hated by the industry...
YES Aliens: Colonial Marines Injustice: Gods Among Us
MAYBE/NO/NOTHING ANNOUNCED Army of Two: The Devil's Cartel BioShock Infinite Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2 Crysis 3 Dead Island Riptide Dead Space 3 DmC Fuse Grand Theft Auto Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance Metro Last Light Remember Me South Park: The Stick of Truth Splinter Cell: Blacklist Tomb Raider
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2012, 12:50:52 PM
I think we'll end up getting almost everything on that list that's by a Japanese company (which includes Tomb Raider, since Square-Enix owns that now), plus a few others on that list, though probably not day-and-date with the PS3/360 release.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: leahsdad on December 12, 2012, 01:03:10 PM
Damnit! We're not getting South Park Stick of Truth! I really wanted that game. Okay, time to ebay my Wii U now!
And no Crysis! The friggin game where you can drive around for 20 minutes without seeing a single enemy? That sucks. I love playing FPS's where you spend most of the time not actually shooting.
And no Splinter Cell. Damn, because the ending of Splinter Cell Conviction was just SO GOOD and SO SATISFYING. I love games where you never see the main antagonist except in cutscenes, and the main antagonist is defeated not by you, but by your sidekick. In a friggin FMV cutscene!
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Soren on December 12, 2012, 01:11:04 PM
This quote is really damning:
Quote
We really developed the game based on these two consoles [PS3, 360] and the Wii U, we think, is unique in a way that the controller is innovative and the entire console's pretty much not hand-in-hand with the consoles that we're making it for now. So if we were going to make it for the Wii U we'd have to start from zero again and really design something for that console, so we could say 100% that it was a good game for this console.
The excuse for the Wii was "well it just doesn't have the muscle to handle our game". Fine.
But now that you have a console with the muscle the excuse now turns into "OMG a tablet controller?!?! WHAT DO?!?!"
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 12, 2012, 01:15:48 PM
I agree, I call BS on them basically saying they don't want to release a game on the Wii U unless it has a unique feature for the system. If Wii was equal to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, they would have said the same excuse ("we don't want to release a game on Wii unless it uses waggle").
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Caterkiller on December 12, 2012, 01:18:56 PM
I should note some of these games are still "unannounced" so there is still hope. It's not like a press release was given to confirm the official status and no way they would reveal anything new over a phone call.
I swear though, if another developer comes to my house again and asks me why I only own a Nintendo console... Bones will be smashed and war declared on the nearest 3rd party offices. And I've got 4 of em within a 2 mile radius.
And by that I mean kindly ask the person to leave and write an angry letter to the 3rd parties in bold red letters.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Soren on December 12, 2012, 01:31:27 PM
And I get it, a lot of these games were in development before the Wii U was even revealed. But I just feel that it's BS that they're turning the Game Pad into a barrier of entry.
I would gladly play South Park on the Wii U even if the only thing they can think of to put on the Game Pad is an inventory screen. I understand the real awesome Game Pad integration stuff might not come until the next wave of games. Just give me a chance to play these games on my system. Take my money please.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: azeke on December 12, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Good, less games for me to buy ;p
But i might have thought about getting Tomb Raider or Bioshock if they would come to WiiU.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: gaugheyad on December 12, 2012, 01:57:14 PM
All excuses from 3rd parties as to why their games aren't going to appear on *Whatever* Nintendo systems always boil down to "Nintendo won't pay us".
That's pretty much it.
I mean, wasn't it these same developers who also said that they couldn't make their games for the Wii because it wasn't powerful enough and that they needed as many systems as possible to port around to since development costs had gone up so much?
Ignoring the first issue (since Wii development was pretty much the same as last gen and therefor Wii games were a fraction of the cost of HD titles and didn't NEED to be ported to hell and back in order to make a profit), now they have another HD system, something developers claimed that they needed. Now all of a sudden... they don't need it any more?
Could it be because that box has the word "Nintendo" on it?
3rd parties will support Nintendo hardware again when Sony and MS leave the industry, and the way things are going that's not going to be that far off. Until then, don't expect much beyond token support, specifically under the auspicious veil of "outsourced" ports. And it's nothing that Nintendo can control or change without driving themselves out of business. Something Sony and MS would absolutely LOVE since they wouldn't actually have to make games anymore in order to sell their little boxes.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: DigitalGreenTea on December 12, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
I think this is ridiculous... The system came out last month. Just like with previous systems, third parties will come once the system is out for longer and they get a developer kit. Most third party developers didn't have a kit when the Wii U wasn't out yet. I don't understand why sites like Kotaku always want systems to be perfect the day it launched. They need to look back and see what Nintendo has improved on over the last few console generations.
Besides, the Wii U is getting cool exclusives early next year, Rayman Legends[/color], Lego City: Undercover[/font][/color], Pikmin 3[/font][/color] and Game & Wario. These games alone would keep me entertained for more than half a year.[/font]
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 12, 2012, 02:10:09 PM
I think we'll end up getting almost everything on that list that's by a Japanese company (which includes Tomb Raider, since Square-Enix owns that now), plus a few others on that list, though probably not day-and-date with the PS3/360 release.
Yeah, the 3DS shows Nintendo is a lot more aggressive with Japanese third parties now. If they can get something as big as Monster Hunter exclusive to their consoles, I don't see how they wouldn't be able to get cheaper ports of 360/PS3 games from a lot of Japanese companies as well.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: regin on December 12, 2012, 03:12:26 PM
I only know two people within the gaming industry, both are tech/engine coders but at two different studios. They've both told me that if you know what you're doing, you can bring a decent version of your game to another platform within a few months at the most. So why no WiiU ports? Did the dev kits arrive too late? All I know is that during the fall of 2011, Nintendo delivered dev kits to these two small-ish studios to "play around with". Neither studio had asked for a dev kit in the first place, so I suppose it's a good thing that Nintendo tried to get them on board. I don't know if this is a new thing for Nintendo, but these guys definitely did not get any Wii or 3DS dev kits out of the blue like this. Unfortunately, none of them even bothered to open the box before they shipped them back to Nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 12, 2012, 03:30:31 PM
I think the real answer is "well we already started working on this game and we figure the PS4 and Xbox 720 will come out soon and we're going to move to them and we figure the Wii U will not be powerful enough to handle multiplatform games with those systems so why bother? The Wii U will be 'on par' for about a year and we can't get anything out by then anyway." They also probably figure this will become the casual system like the Wii and that the audience for their games won't be on the system anyway.
Nintendo worked REALLY hard at pissing off third parties during the NES and SNES days. The N64 cartridges was the last straw so they lost almost everybody overnight and those third parties were probably GLAD to be rid of Nintendo. And since then what the hell has Nintendo done to win them back? The Cube was the most third party friendly system they've released since then and it's appeal was pretty much that it was not grossly incompatable for ports like the N64 and Wii were. Hooray, Nintendo adequate! I so want to work with them now. Everything I've heard about Nintendo's relationships with any outside company is that they're hard to work with, treat everyone like competition, and always try to gain some advantage. This isn't just with third parties but also with retailers and the gaming media. It's not just that Nintendo doesn't offer moneyhats, they're just not easy to work with and provide no incentive for anyone that wrote them off to consider coming back.
On the N64 they had secret microcode so that their own games would have an advantage over third party titles. On the Cube if you asked them how to go online they said "I don't know. You figure it out" and so no one did. If you've ever worked with someone who is a huge pain in the ass, you don't work with them again unless you have to or the opportunity presented from working with them is so great you can't ignore it. So do these companies NEED to support the Wii U? Is the Wii U such a gold mine for third parties that they would be complete fools to ignore it? If they can skip the Wii U and still be successful, then why not do that?
Even from a creative perspective who cares about the Gamepad? Who has had this awesome idea in their heads for years that only now the Wii U can allow for? Nintendo acts like this is a big deal but it's a forced gimmick and no one, not even Nintendo devs, have been waiting for a system with this functionality. Is it worthwhile to deal with Nintendo if you don't need them to stay in business, it won't bring about any major financial gain, and you don't require the unique features of their system to bring your idea to life?
Another thing to remember is that while publishers are businessmen, developers are creative people and the better ones that have the clout to do so, want to make the games they themselves want to play. Nintendo's whole Wii approach was not inviting to creative developers. Who the hell dreams of making casual shovelware for rubes? No one, so any dev that isn't just in it for money or isn't some small time team that just gets stuck making games for Pixar movies, is not going to want to be part of Nintendo's strategy. The "core vs. casual" backlash that the Wii created exists with developers as well because devs are typically gamers. They don't want to make or play casual crap and they don't want the industry to turn into casual crap so they have no reason to specifically help Nintendo be successful unless they have to.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on December 12, 2012, 03:41:46 PM
These comments are not surprising in the least.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ymeegod on December 12, 2012, 08:03:14 PM
Sales matter--it all comes down to numbers. Right now the WII U just starting out and there's to many games (good for gamers/bad for publishers) so having only a few games in the next couple of quarters might actually help those games that are already released like CoD BO2 which only sold 50K or so.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: shingi_70 on December 12, 2012, 08:24:50 PM
Isn't that the problem with the Wii U that's its built to be a response to the 360/PS3 and not what comes next.
The Wii U is in a really werid postion in which its probably not getting a lot of the third party software on the list because third party resources have probably moved on to development for the other next gen systems.
Hopefully I'm wrong for those who only roll with nintendo.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: the asylum on December 12, 2012, 09:08:05 PM
Nintendo really pigeonholed themselves into the "Soccer-Mom" market with the Wii. Naming the new system Wii U will not help to shake that stigma. The flood of shovelware combined with long droughts of quality games didn't raise Nintendo's stock in the third party eyes either. The Wii was hot **** for a few months and then it was completely written off by the big developers.
Besides, it's been 6 years since 2006. The third parties are likely already anticipating news of Sony's and MS' new platforms, and aren't banking on Nintendo's current-tech console stacking up to whatever Sony/MS is hiding up their sleeves.
And don't get me started on the lasting stigma of the Wii's horrific online setup.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: MrPhishfood on December 12, 2012, 09:15:41 PM
They're all games targeted at conventional 360/PS3 anyway. Why bother porting and publishing.
I think the real answer is "well we already started working on this game and we figure the PS4 and Xbox 720 will come out soon and we're going to move to them and we figure the Wii U will not be powerful enough to handle....BLAH BLAH BLAH
So.. much.. speculation.. so many.. assumptions :Q
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Pixelated Pixies on December 12, 2012, 09:45:22 PM
I think the real answer is "well we already started working on this game and we figure the PS4 and Xbox 720 will come out soon and we're going to move to them and we figure the Wii U will not be powerful enough to handle....BLAH BLAH BLAH
So...much...truth
Sorry. I couldn't help myself.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: EasyCure on December 12, 2012, 10:12:01 PM
I should note some of these games are still "unannounced" so there is still hope. It's not like a press release was given to confirm the official status and no way they would reveal anything new over a phone call.
I swear though, if another developer comes to my house again and asks me why I only own a Nintendo console... Bones will be smashed and war declared on the nearest 3rd party offices. And I've got 4 of em within a 2 mile radius.
And by that I mean kindly ask the person to leave and write an angry letter to the 3rd parties in bold red letters.
If you decide to go with the large font letters clipped from magazines and news papers, I'll help you. I've always wanted to do that!
I think the real answer is "well we already started working on this game and we figure the PS4 and Xbox 720 will come out soon and we're going to move to them and we figure the Wii U will not be powerful enough to handle multiplatform games with those systems so why bother? The Wii U will be 'on par' for about a year and we can't get anything out by then anyway." They also probably figure this will become the casual system like the Wii and that the audience for their games won't be on the system anyway.
Nintendo worked REALLY hard at pissing off third parties during the NES and SNES days. The N64 cartridges was the last straw so they lost almost everybody overnight and those third parties were probably GLAD to be rid of Nintendo. And since then what the hell has Nintendo done to win them back? The Cube was the most third party friendly system they've released since then and it's appeal was pretty much that it was not grossly incompatable for ports like the N64 and Wii were. Hooray, Nintendo adequate! I so want to work with them now. Everything I've heard about Nintendo's relationships with any outside company is that they're hard to work with, treat everyone like competition, and always try to gain some advantage. This isn't just with third parties but also with retailers and the gaming media. It's not just that Nintendo doesn't offer moneyhats, they're just not easy to work with and provide no incentive for anyone that wrote them off to consider coming back.
On the N64 they had secret microcode so that their own games would have an advantage over third party titles. On the Cube if you asked them how to go online they said "I don't know. You figure it out" and so no one did. If you've ever worked with someone who is a huge pain in the ass, you don't work with them again unless you have to or the opportunity presented from working with them is so great you can't ignore it. So do these companies NEED to support the Wii U? Is the Wii U such a gold mine for third parties that they would be complete fools to ignore it? If they can skip the Wii U and still be successful, then why not do that?
Even from a creative perspective who cares about the Gamepad? Who has had this awesome idea in their heads for years that only now the Wii U can allow for? Nintendo acts like this is a big deal but it's a forced gimmick and no one, not even Nintendo devs, have been waiting for a system with this functionality. Is it worthwhile to deal with Nintendo if you don't need them to stay in business, it won't bring about any major financial gain, and you don't require the unique features of their system to bring your idea to life?
Another thing to remember is that while publishers are businessmen, developers are creative people and the better ones that have the clout to do so, want to make the games they themselves want to play. Nintendo's whole Wii approach was not inviting to creative developers. Who the hell dreams of making casual shovelware for rubes? No one, so any dev that isn't just in it for money or isn't some small time team that just gets stuck making games for Pixar movies, is not going to want to be part of Nintendo's strategy. The "core vs. casual" backlash that the Wii created exists with developers as well because devs are typically gamers. They don't want to make or play casual crap and they don't want the industry to turn into casual crap so they have no reason to specifically help Nintendo be successful unless they have to.
You had a very good post until that one bit, then you just went in to your usual rants. I call bull **** because a creative dev very well could have wanted to make a creative game using motion controls, and guess what; some have! The rest of the devs that used the limited hardware as an excuse not to create something magnificent just proved that they're not that creative.
That whole sentiment is like saying art made with crayons isn't worthy of being called art, no matter how creative it is (http://www.etsy.com/transaction/53925457)
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 12, 2012, 10:24:38 PM
I think there have been rumors of Tomb Raider and Splinter Cell coming to Wii U. EA is still doing a partial blacklist of the Wii U because Nintendo rejected Orbis exclusiveness, and THQ can't afford to keep the lights on, let alone fund a port.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2012, 10:36:30 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we got Dead Space 3 a few months late like we are with Need For Speed.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: azeke on December 12, 2012, 10:57:16 PM
Even from a creative perspective who cares about the Gamepad? Who has had this awesome idea in their heads for years that only now the Wii U can allow for?
Ubisoft so far uses Gamepad better than Nintendo itself.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: UncleBob on December 12, 2012, 11:03:27 PM
My issue with the entire "we can't think of a unique use for the gamepad, so no Wii U" is that it's complete bull****. It's not as if they *have* to come up with something special for the gamepad. Does this mean that the Wii U version might look cheaper because it doesn't do things that some of the other Wii U games do? Possibly. But if the game is good enough, no one will care.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 12, 2012, 11:26:57 PM
It's not hard to come up with a simple use for the GamePad. Not every game needs to be ZombiU and integrate it completely. Ninja Gaiden 3 barely used it, with what was there being pretty much useless, but I still gave it an 8 because it was a good game even without any real use of it.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ThePerm on December 13, 2012, 12:06:36 AM
I've accepted the fact that third parties don't like Nintendo. The best times are when Nintendo fills the gaps themselves. I loved Nintendo 64 and Gamecube and they didnt have much third party support.
I kind of predict Sony;s future downfall, and if it happens. They'll either flock to xbox, steam, or Nintendo
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Soren on December 13, 2012, 12:18:45 AM
Quote from: Randy Pitchford, on why Borderlands 2 isn't coming to the Wii U
we couldn't think of a natural, obvious, 'OMG, I want that for what the Wii U brings to the table 'feature''
I don't understand how they couldn't come up with putting a map, status indicators and inventory management on the GamePad. Also, it'd be perfect for off-TV play.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: the asylum on December 13, 2012, 12:43:07 AM
That's Thirdparty-ese for "We dont give a **** about the Wii U and nobody will buy our game for that platform anyway so we're just not gonna bother."
Basically what we've been hearing since 2007
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Louieturkey on December 13, 2012, 12:47:20 AM
Quote from: Randy Pitchford, on why Borderlands 2 isn't coming to the Wii U
we couldn't think of a natural, obvious, 'OMG, I want that for what the Wii U brings to the table 'feature''
I don't understand how they couldn't come up with putting a map, status indicators and inventory management on the GamePad. Also, it'd be perfect for off-TV play.
Off TV play is the perfect use for the gamepad for all games. It makes the greatest sense.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Kytim89 on December 13, 2012, 01:24:29 AM
With the collpase of Sony and Nintendo positioning itself to tighten its grip on the Japanese game industry, I see no reason why the third party developers of Japan would turn away from the Wii U. On the other hand, western third party developers have been burned so many times that they will tell Nintendo to shove it if their games do not sell well.
The bottom line is that I am more than willing to give my money to any developer that makes good games for the Wii U and 3DS. If these consoles are not good enough for certain developers then I will not buy their games. I have reached a point where I am officially a Nintendo loyalist and will never quit likeing Nintendo consoles.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 13, 2012, 02:17:32 AM
Once the PS4 is finally revealed will probably be the moment Japanese third parties start to embrace the Wii U. If the PS4 is a huge power increase over the Wii U, then it's going to be 3DS vs Vita all over again. Even though third parties were having great sales on the PSP in Japan, once the Vita was revealed to be a huge increase in power and would be more expensive to develop for, Nintendo was able to get most Japanese third parties to just hold on to their PSP engines and assets and use them for to make 3DS games instead. Don't be surprised if they do something similar with the Wii U.
And if the PS4 isn't a huge increase, well then the Wii U should be able to get ports then since nothings holding it back and the Wii U will easily be the dominate home console in Japan.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Adrock on December 13, 2012, 08:20:33 AM
Most, if not all, of the teams who worked on Wii U launch ports have probably moved on to other ports for the console. So, the "no plans" line these companies are feeding the press should be taken in many cases as "we'll announce it later." Those announcements affect a lot of things.
Wii U won't get every 3rd party game, but it should get the major ones. 3rd parties invested a lot in those games and porting them to every capable platform allows them to see even greater returns without putting forth that much more effort. Some people may scoff at 3rd parties handing these ports to smaller teams, but I'm actually not that worried. Nintendo handed the Holy Grail of ports to virtual unknown Grezzo and that turned out fantastically.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Sarail on December 13, 2012, 11:05:12 AM
You know, it's not that the entire games development industry hates Nintendo. It's the majority of western developers who have no care for Nintendo and it's platforms. And it's a crying shame, because there's money to be made on Nintendo's platforms - you just have to actually, oh...you know, try.
It's the reason I consider myself to be a Japanese gamer. And Japanese developers (those without the western development mindset - curses to you Kojima and Itagaki) make the type of games that I love and enjoy playing. Sure, I love Uncharted (I squee like a little school girl, and a small bit of pee comes out whenever a new third-person shooter catches my eye), but the very western ideas brought forth in that game are game mechanics that feel very Japanese. Metal Arms had a bit of this, Jet Force Gemini (my favourite game) did this well, and I'm immensely looking forward to Watch Dogs - oh lawd, please be a Wii U game.
Anyways, I just feel like western devs have pigeon-holed themselves into a corner where a game's mechanics and play control HAS to be designed a certain way. And because the typical bro-gamer has latched on to this, they expect no less. Madden, GTA, Halo, CoD, etc... any of these games are all incredibly similar with each series' installment. And then you've got companies like Valve, and their games like Portal and Half-Life - two VERY different games that each use a first-person perspective.
Of course, the NSMB series makes my statement mute, but oh well. That's just ONE series. And there's LOTS of different Mario games.
Also, I feel like western devs are scared of colour. :P
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: shingi_70 on December 13, 2012, 11:08:54 AM
But what point is there in third parties being coy on the Wii U getting ports of these games. From my perspective all this is just giving reasons to delay a purchase of a Wii U.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: shingi_70 on December 13, 2012, 11:33:22 AM
Sorry for the double post.
But what Japanese Japnese developers are their anymore besides niche stuff or tecmo.
I mean let's be honest.
Konami has pretty much have everything done by Kojima or Western devs. Hudson is dead and even PES is moving development to europe.
Sqaure enix is being dragged along by the Edios side of the company. The Japanese side has nearly killed the company by overstreching the final fantasy brand and fucking up Final Fantasy 14. Dragon Quest 10 seems to be doing well and Braverly default looks cool.
Capcom is another dev that is out sourcing most of its output to Western Developers and even its internal studios barring Monster Hunter are pretty western styled.
Sega in all honesty I expect to be where THQ is this time next year if not sooner.
I think Japanese developers are killing themselves by not keeping their unquie flair. When this generation started we saw Japanese developers struggle with HD development and the longer development cycles as well as the stagnation of the RPG. Instead of trying to cope with this they decided to just try and appeal to the western market copy and paste instead of trying to have a mix of western and eastern development style.
I think the death of the console RPG is probably one of the things I disliked most about this generation because there were a lot in the early of this Gen. The problem was the first few attempts were either poor or Good games that still could have been made on say the PS2. Then the big one FF13 ended up disapointing. I think there has to be a middle ground between the open world WRPG and the narative focused TB JRPG.
Not only that japanese developers for whatever reason released only on one system (the tales games, ni no kuni) which is okay in japan but not so much in any other markets. They also decided to for the most part completely ignore xbla/PSN. Square could have easily made a new RPGs in the style of the snes or PS1 games with decnt length that would have sold well and cheap.
But I've just gotten off on a crazy tangent. Only real japanese devs that are sizable are nintendo, namco, and tecmo koei.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: lolmonade on December 13, 2012, 11:39:20 AM
How many of these games were pretty far into development before the Wii U came out?
I'd expect at least some of them to be delayed ports. I think we'll have better visibility on 3rd party support once games start being built from the ground-up with the Wii U now being out.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2012, 01:29:50 PM
So let's break this down by publisher. I'll miss some publishers and titles, so help me fill it in.
Western: EA - Mad that Nintendo didn't go exclusivley Orbis for online. Ubisoft - Big on the Wii U, bringing good support so far. Activision - They do COD and....? THQ - Almost dead. Selling themselves on the street corner in hopes of surviving. 2K Games - GTA and...?
Eastern: Capcom - What's their problem? Konami - They do MGS and....? Tecmo Koei- Tekken. Dynasty Warriors. what else? Square Enix - FF and DQ. That's it. Sega - Barely Alive. I am getting Aliens/Marines though!
I think the future is more and more indie devs with downloadable titles. Wii U has a decent start there. Look at a game like Trine 2. It may be an indie downloadable title, but it is an A grade game without a doubt. Polished, pretty and lots of content. Maybe even AA.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 13, 2012, 01:41:49 PM
One problem for the Wii U is that getting some of the same third party games as the other systems, while a good thing, is not a selling point for anyone with a PS3 or Xbox 360. So the Wii U has Arkham City and ME3. Big deal. I can play those on my PS3. The market for such games is entirely those that were Wii-only last gen. And no PS360 owner is going to buy a Wii U for those third party games because it makes no sense to buy a new system to play a game you can already play on a system you own. Only the exclusives will influence a purchase.
And even if the PS360 owner does buy a Wii U for Mario, will he buy Arkham City or did he already buy it when it was brand new? Usually when a new system comes out, any multiplatform games it gets will be for the new generation. So the Cube got something like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 which had come out for the PS2 a few months earlier. That was okay because the PS2 was new enough that a lot of Gamecube owners would not already own one. Usually the new systems are all released close enough together that a early adopter's purchase would be their first and only console of that generation. But the Wii U is sharing third party titles with consoles that have been around for an entire generation. Being a few months late makes a huge difference because those other consoles are so widespread.
Any third party game that is not coming out the same day as it does on the other systems or is not an exclusive is pretty much doomed to weak sales. The Wii U realistically is supposed to be the start of a new gen but thus far it's really being treated by third parties as a competitor to the PS360. They should be kicking off their next gen of games on it, but they're not. They're not really offering anything that deserves to sell well, so it won't, and they'll have an excuse to just not bother in the future.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Adrock on December 13, 2012, 01:49:17 PM
@ShyGuy
You're mixing up Take Two and 2K Games. The former has GTA, Max Payne, and Red Dead while the latter has Borderlands and Bioshock.
Konami has Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Catsylvania, and Contra. They also have Dance Dance Revolution and since they own Hudson Soft, they also have Bomberman (and Bonk if you remember him)
Square Enix has Star Ocean, Mana, Kingdom Hearts, and Parasite Eve in addition to FF and DQ. They also own Eidos now so Tomb Raider, Hitman, Legacy of Kain, and Deus Ex are theirs too.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: shingi_70 on December 13, 2012, 02:17:56 PM
@adrock
Tale-two and 2) are the same company.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Kairon on December 13, 2012, 02:23:05 PM
I, for one, will continue to buy 3rd party games on Nintendo systems.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Adrock on December 13, 2012, 02:25:19 PM
My bad. I was trying to separate Rockstar and 2K. Take Two has all of those series then.
I, for one, will continue to buy 3rd party games on Nintendo systems.
And that's why we love you.
^_^
But seriously, I'm not doing it to fit an image. I am disappointed when I can't play games like BioShock or Deadspace. But I have one console, one handheld, and one very-out-of-date-pc that I can't afford to replace yet. So I do the sensible thing: focus on having fun with every CoD released on the Wii/Wii U, and a Funky Barn every now and again. With under-the-radar gems like Star Trek: Conquest and Dawn of Discovery, and even with third-party exclusives like Red Steel 2 or the upcoming Rayman Legends.
I may have been disappointed when I had no way to play Mass Effect when that got big, I'd watch my friends play and knew it was very compelling. But now I have a copy of Mass Effect 3 that eventually found its way into my collection.
When third party games that interest me come within my reach, I buy them. Third parties can depend on at least my amount of consumer demand. And if a third party game I'm curious about isn't within my reach, then I pout a bit and then move on. Life's too short to complain on the internet about games I haven't played.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: MysticGohan on December 13, 2012, 03:35:48 PM
You're mixing up Take Two and 2K Games. The former has GTA, Max Payne, and Red Dead while the latter has Borderlands and Bioshock.
Konami has Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Catsylvania, and Contra. They also have Dance Dance Revolution and since they own Hudson Soft, they also have Bomberman (and Bonk if you remember him)
Square Enix has Star Ocean, Mana, Kingdom Hearts, and Parasite Eve in addition to FF and DQ. They also own Eidos now so Tomb Raider, Hitman, Legacy of Kain, and Deus Ex are theirs too.
Damnit Adrock! you forgot the best game of them all! Chrono Trigger! :p And Capcom need to bring back Breath of Fire! a true BoF game at that!
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2012, 04:19:22 PM
I notice a lot of the Japanese developer's franchise's are dead, dormant, or relegated to B and C level status. If nothing else, I hope they can come back in the Wii U eShop.
Out of Kotaku's list, the only games that are on my "will buy for sure" list are Aliens:Colonial Marines and Bioshock Infinite, so I won't be missing out on too much.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: MrPhishfood on December 13, 2012, 04:45:38 PM
Western: EA - Mad that Nintendo didn't go exclusivley Orbis for online.
HA! Is Origin so obscure you can't even remember its name?
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Ian Sane on December 13, 2012, 05:03:50 PM
I strongly prefer Japanese games so if Nintendo can get all the Japanese devs that in theory would be great. Except that the quality of Japanese games has fallen like a rock over this last gen. Companies like Konami, Capcom, Sega and Square used to consistently make great games. You would occasionally get a lousy title but now it's more like you occasionally get a good one. Nintendo is by FAR the most consistent Japanese dev these days... which I guess isn't that different since I felt they were the best dev during the glory years of Japanese games as well. ;)
Anyway, Nintendo of today would not be the best Japanese dev of ten years ago and the gap between them and everyone else has really widened. There really isn't another Japanese company that can be consistently associated with quality and all of them are clearly past their prime. The market is run by the West now, which means that that is the support that is going to be the most consistent. If Japan could turn things around, that would be fantastic. But based on how things are now a Wii U that dominates mostly with Japanese third party support is going to get only a few really great third party gems a year.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 13, 2012, 05:19:03 PM
I strongly prefer Japanese games so if Nintendo can get all the Japanese devs that in theory would be great. Except that the quality of Japanese games has fallen like a rock over this last gen. Companies like Konami, Capcom, Sega and Square used to consistently make great games. You would occasionally get a lousy title but now it's more like you occasionally get a good one. Nintendo is by FAR the most consistent Japanese dev these days... which I guess isn't that different since I felt they were the best dev during the glory years of Japanese games as well. ;)
Anyway, Nintendo of today would not be the best Japanese dev of ten years ago and the gap between them and everyone else has really widened. There really isn't another Japanese company that can be consistently associated with quality and all of them are clearly past their prime. The market is run by the West now, which means that that is the support that is going to be the most consistent. If Japan could turn things around, that would be fantastic. But based on how things are now a Wii U that dominates mostly with Japanese third party support is going to get only a few really great third party gems a year.
The problem with most Japanese third parties is they keep trying to make their games like Western games because they want to appeal more to the massive COD and GTA audience. But since they're not Western designers, they end up failing to recreate what people like about Western games and don't create what people used to like about their old Japanese games.
This is why Nintendo has faired much better then the rest of Japan because Iwata still allows Nintendo's studio's to make games the way they used. Unlike the rest of Japan were the management tells their studio's to be like the West when these studio's don't really know how to be Western though.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: ShyGuy on December 13, 2012, 06:32:16 PM
One problem for the Wii U is that getting some of the same third party games as the other systems, while a good thing, is not a selling point for anyone with a PS3 or Xbox 360. So the Wii U has Arkham City and ME3. Big deal. I can play those on my PS3. The market for such games is entirely those that were Wii-only last gen. And no PS360 owner is going to buy a Wii U for those third party games because it makes no sense to buy a new system to play a game you can already play on a system you own. Only the exclusives will influence a purchase.
And even if the PS360 owner does buy a Wii U for Mario, will he buy Arkham City or did he already buy it when it was brand new? Usually when a new system comes out, any multiplatform games it gets will be for the new generation. So the Cube got something like Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 which had come out for the PS2 a few months earlier. That was okay because the PS2 was new enough that a lot of Gamecube owners would not already own one. Usually the new systems are all released close enough together that a early adopter's purchase would be their first and only console of that generation. But the Wii U is sharing third party titles with consoles that have been around for an entire generation. Being a few months late makes a huge difference because those other consoles are so widespread.
Any third party game that is not coming out the same day as it does on the other systems or is not an exclusive is pretty much doomed to weak sales. The Wii U realistically is supposed to be the start of a new gen but thus far it's really being treated by third parties as a competitor to the PS360. They should be kicking off their next gen of games on it, but they're not. They're not really offering anything that deserves to sell well, so it won't, and they'll have an excuse to just not bother in the future.
Very well put and I agree entirely.
Title: Re: Wii U gets little 3rd party love.
Post by: Gamejunkie on December 16, 2012, 08:22:21 AM
So let's break this down by publisher. I'll miss some publishers and titles, so help me fill it in.
Western: EA - Mad that Nintendo didn't go exclusivley Orbis for online. Ubisoft - Big on the Wii U, bringing good support so far. Activision - They do COD and....? THQ - Almost dead. Selling themselves on the street corner in hopes of surviving. 2K Games - GTA and...?
Eastern: Capcom - What's their problem? Konami - They do MGS and....? Tecmo Koei- Tekken. Dynasty Warriors. what else? Square Enix - FF and DQ. That's it. Sega - Barely Alive. I am getting Aliens/Marines though!
I think the future is more and more indie devs with downloadable titles. Wii U has a decent start there. Look at a game like Trine 2. It may be an indie downloadable title, but it is an A grade game without a doubt. Polished, pretty and lots of content. Maybe even AA.