Post by: NWR_Neal on May 04, 2012, 11:24:54 PM
Remember when we had almost a new Game Boy release on eShop every week? Yea, me neither.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/30050
On March 28, roughly a month and a half ago, I wrote an article entitled A Frightening Virtual Console Realization, in which I explained how I was worried that Nintendo of America was prematurely abandoning the service far earlier than they did on Wii.
Now, on May 4, approximately six opportunities to release a 3DS Virtual Console game later, I have the same complaint. Oddly enough, it's coming on the heels of a mini-Wii Virtual Console renaissance. For the first time since 2010, there will be three consecutive weeks of Wii Virtual Console releases, thanks to Capcom and Sega. Hell, next week we're getting two games, including the never-before-released-in-America Monster World IV, which looks awesome.
It is rather depressing right now for 3DS owners who love retro games, as only two Game Boy games have come out on the system this year, which we're almost halfway done. To add insult to injury, they were Lock'N Chase and Maru's Mission, two games that are mediocre at best. The 3DS Virtual Console wasn't completely barren outside of those two games in North America, though, as the service did get three wonderfully emulated Game Gear games, and three NES games (two of which were given out as Ambassador titles in August 2011). Those six games were also all added to every other region.
Since February 9, the last time North America received a new Game Boy title on the eShop, Japan and Europe have added nine and six games, respectively.
Look at my handy chart (above) to see the depressing disparity. It's not like Japan and Europe are receiving shovelware games. All three Wario Land games are available on the 3DS Virtual Console. Kid Icarus' Game Boy sequel is on the service in both Japan and Europe now, as is Game & Watch Gallery 2. The Game Boy Goemon game is in Japan. Kirby's Block Ball is available in Europe, and Kirby's Dream Land 2 is out in Japan. Meanwhile, we have freaking Maru's Mission in North America. And...oh wait, that's about it.
Even with accounting for the Game Gear and NES games, this is an awful trend for Nintendo of America to be setting. You've got to think, that coming off the Operation Rainfall debacle, where Nintendo of Europe so thoroughly embarrassed the North American branch with successful launches of Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower, Nintendo of America would want to triumph over their sibling in some way.
Instead, we're stuck with the worst 3DS Virtual Console by a large margin, and sadly, there is no promise of a light at the end of the tunnel.
Note: We have reached out to Nintendo of America to comment on this trend, but as of this posting, we have not gotten a response.
Post by: xcwarrior on May 04, 2012, 11:57:47 PM
Good article, I didn't realize there were only 2 VC releases all year. That's horrid!
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 12:18:37 AM
Quote
a mini-Wii Virtual Console renaissance. For the first time since 2010, there will be three consecutive weeks of Wii Virtual Console releases
I'd like to read the editorial on this. When does that run?
Quarter past never?
Post by: Oblivion on May 05, 2012, 12:31:31 AM
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 05, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
But seriously, for me personally, I wasn't excited by the past two Wii VC releases. It's great the service isn't dead, but I can't get excited for Super Hang-On and another Street Fighter game (even if it's online). The two coming this week are interesting to me, though. I'm really looking forward to them. We covered their announcement, and we'll cover them after their release. I don't know what else you want us to do.
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 01:16:29 AM
We covered their announcement, and we'll cover them after their release. I don't know what else you want us to do.
Yes, you covered them. Much in the same way covering this story would have sounded like "Here Are the Recent Releases on the eShop: New games, but no VC games." But instead you wrote an editorial on how the drought in this particular segment of Nintendo's digital offering depresses you. Wouldn't it be just as valid to write an editorial on how a particular streak of Wii VC games is exciting?
People think I'm afraid of critiques. It's not true. I just don't see why there can't be (at worst) a balance. And in the land of the gamer, b*tching and moaning is king. It's like whatever we aren't getting RIGHT THIS SECOND is the biggest deal in the world. So, fine.... b*tch and moan... but balance it out with equal measures praise and gratitude. (Nintendo) gaming is pretty cool and there's nothing wrong with admitting it.
Side note: non-VC games have been coming out. I imagine if those dry up and the VC starts getting releases, we will instead get an article about how "It is rather depressing right now for 3DS owners who love modern games. Nintendo only wants to sell us recycled products." I'd love to be wrong.
Super Side note Championship Edition: A VC Street Fighter with online? You gotta admit that's pretty bad-ass, especially for this stage in the Wii's life. Yet, as you acknowledged, it's met with a yawn instead of praise. Just sayin'.
~~~
I eagerly await being proven wrong and sucking down this crow like Kirby inhales baddies. ;D
Thanks for responding politely, Neal. I apologize if it ever seems like I'm just hear to make your lives harder. I hope you know, perhaps even just deep down, that's not the case.
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 05, 2012, 01:28:27 AM
I get your point on the negativity, though, and yes, it would be valid to write a pro-Wii VC article. I wrote this because I am passionate about the 3DS Virtual Console, and in North America, it sucks right now. I really want to play the games I mentioned that are out in Japan and Europe. As I said, I don't care about the past two weeks of Wii VC releases. It's great that they exist, but I have no interest in either game. It's neat that there is a Street Fighter game with online. That's all the excitement I can muster for it.
But man, Monster World IV... I'm excited for that. I've heard many good things about it.
EDIT: Also, I didn't complain when we were getting diddly squat outside of a weekly VC release on the 3DS last summer. It's still unfortunate that the retail market was barren, but I was content with playing Gargoyle's Quest and stuff.
Post by: Halbred on May 05, 2012, 01:33:34 AM
I apologize if it ever seems like I'm just hear to make your lives harder.
It really, really does.
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 02:25:48 AM
My only issue with you is sometimes you don't respond politely. I doubt that's your intention, but in the world of typed words in forums, if comes off as rather aggressive.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I can see that being the case, and for that I sincerely apologize. If anyone had these conversations with me in real life "aggression" is not the sense they'd get. I assure you.
It's just that I love and enjoy gaming so much and I want to revel in its splendor with my fellow gamers (I'm big on social connection). So then I come online (the village in which gamers live) and everyone is just sh*tting all over everything and everyone else 98% of the time. Its frustrating. I feel like I'm running a one-man AA intervention. ("Just put the bottle down and enjoy gaming for a change!!")
I believe a silent majority of gamers who do simply appreciate the positives has taken the high road and said "f*ck this buzz kill ... Imma enjoy my games without 'em." But me? I'm not quite smart enough for that. So I stick my nose in and hope I can tap in to the gaming passion that I know is hiding behind every bitter "critique."
I do understand that just as I gripe in the name of a better gaming culture, internet gamers gripe in the name of a better gaming industry. (Though many game journalists gripe in the name of flame-bait/traffic). The reason why I feel one is justified and the other isn't is because the industry doesn't change course based on internet griping. Maybe something as large, organized, and respectful as Operation Rainfall had an impact. But short of something like that? No. On the other hand, game culture is just between all of us ... we can make a difference because we create this culture every day through our own actions. We don't have to dwell on the negative 98% of the time. Even if someone thought they could enact change through complaint, why not try maintaining quality through praise? Seems just as practical to me.
Sometimes people say "But, NinSage, I do show my love for X, Y, and Z." The problem is, the expressions of love and hate are not balanced. It's usually something like...
LOVE: Hey, Skyward Sword was pretty cool.
HATE: What the f*ck have they done with Skyward Sword? Motion control sword play!? What the hell were they thinking? Zelda games are f*cking dead to me until further notice.
I don't know... it really is hard to effectively communicate and have open exchanges online. But, as I said, I'm not quite smart enough to stop trying. So, if that is bothersome? Again, my apologies - I only want to help. In the past I've taken breaks from NWR because I just felt my opinions were too unwanted and, as I said, I'm not here to make things worse. However, do know that I wouldn't be here in the first place unless I thought this was one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet. And coming from me, that should be saying something, right?
That's for being cool again in your reply, Neal. I know sometimes it's not easy between us. If you have some advice on how I could better voice my concerns in the future, I'm open to talking about that.
I apologize if it ever seems like I'm just hear to make your lives harder.
It really, really does.
All I can do is assure you that is a misinterpretation. Whether you believe me or not is out of my hands.
Post by: Halbred on May 05, 2012, 04:20:20 AM
Oh, but I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you. In fact, it seems people misunderstand you a LOT. As a rhetoric major who drafts and interprets construction contracts for a living, I can tell you that the fault lies not with the audience. Want to be a better rhetor? Go study Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Cicero and Quintillion. When you can form a cohesive argument clearly, concisely, and free of argumentative fallacies, we'll talk.
Post by: monoxzide on May 05, 2012, 07:17:39 AM
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 09:13:41 AM
However, do know that I wouldn't be here in the first place unless I thought this was one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet.
So... you like this site... you think it's one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet...
...yet you're always posting negative things about it and about the staff that volunteer to run it.
That seems to have a strange parallel with the exact thing you're complaining about.
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 05, 2012, 09:37:41 AM
Post by: ejamer on May 05, 2012, 09:46:06 AM
...
Super Side note Championship Edition: A VC Street Fighter with online? You gotta admit that's pretty bad-ass, especially for this stage in the Wii's life. Yet, as you acknowledged, it's met with a yawn instead of praise. Just sayin'.
...
I would've been excited if this happened earlier in Wii's lifecycle, but don't think it's "bad-ass" at all due to the timing.
The active Wii user base (especially for Virtual Console/WiiWare titles) has diminished to the point where I'm not at all confident that there would be enough other people buying to make online play enticing. It's also a bit of a kick-in-the-junk to learn that online multiplayer was possible for other Virtual Console games, but never arrived until the dying gasps of the Wii life cycle. Even if you do want fighting games with online play, there are simply better options available at this point.
Instead of being something really cool and exciting (which it should be), to me this is just another entry in the growing list of "too late for me to care" decisions by Nintendo - with NoA in particular generating the most entries.
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 11:23:58 AM
So... you like this site... you think it's one of the best Nintendo sites on the internet...
...yet you're always posting negative things about it and about the staff that volunteer to run it.
That seems to have a strange parallel with the exact thing you're complaining about.
You must have missed the paragraph where I explained this ...
I do understand that just as I gripe in the name of a better gaming culture, internet gamers gripe in the name of a better gaming industry. (Though many game journalists gripe in the name of flame-bait/traffic). The reason why I feel one is justified and the other isn't is because the industry doesn't change course based on internet griping. Maybe something as large, organized, and respectful as Operation Rainfall had an impact. But short of something like that? No. On the other hand, game culture is just between all of us ... we can make a difference because we create this culture every day through our own actions. We don't have to dwell on the negative 98% of the time. Even if someone thought they could enact change through complaint, why not try maintaining quality through praise? Seems just as practical to me.
Also, the following recent posts of mine might help speak to unnoticed facets of my character...
Exhibit A) praise for NWR/it's people:
I can't wait to read this later. Good choice, NWR!
Kudos, Neal.
SOPHIA? Gotta be a Blaster Master reference ...... *begins listening to podcast!*
I will watch this tomorrow! Can't wait!!!
Just watched it. Loved it. I want to move to Japan and be a famicast production crewman!
... unfortunately, life has other plans :-\
Best comment in the whole thread. This could have saved us all a lot of typing and should probably be "stickied" should this subject ever come up again.
Well done, Neal ;D
Exhibit B) proof I can find fault in Nintendo, I just voice it less angrily/ominously:
mmm, not impressed by that color. Not one bit. Kinda gross to me.
Still wish Ice White and/or Leaf(?) Green was available in NA. Perhaps when/if the 3DS XL comes out!? *fingers crossed*
I'm also super-thrilled about the folders, but disappointed in their display. One letter means I can't even properly distinguish between "Media" and "Mii stuff."
I assumed that the folder would display the first icon inside the folder or (even better) cycle through all the icons contained inside. Now THAT would be sweet! In the words of Luigi: "nex-a time?"
*Still waiting for his MMO-like Pokemon game*
make it happen and I will gladly pay a sub fee or get microtransactioned into debt or any number of other things I swore I would never, ever, ever do!!
@ejamer
A fair point. But why have people bothered complaining about a lack of Wii VC if they won't be pleased by quality releases? The answer to that only seems to be that they expected/demanded (good) games being released CONSTANTLY and indefinitely. Which might be a little unrealistic, no?
Post by: joshnickerson on May 05, 2012, 11:39:20 AM
Problem is, we really don't know what the answer is, since Nintendo is historically frustratingly tight-lipped about their inner workings, but I seriously doubt it's part of some evil plot by Reggie to hate upon Nintendo fans.
And I understand where NinSage is coming from. It's kind of frustrating to visit Nintendo news/fan sites, only to find a majority of the community bitching and complaining. But that's when I turn off the computer and go play some damn video games. :)
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 12:19:04 PM
Exhibit A) praise for NWR/it's people:
Yeah...
Sometimes people say "But, Unclebob, I do show my love for X, Y, and Z." The problem is, the expressions of love and hate are not balanced. It's usually something like...
LOVE:
I can't wait to read this later. Good choice, NWR!
HATE:
I'd like to read the editorial on this. When does that run?
Quarter past never?
LOVE:
Kudos, Neal.
HATE:
This is why I offered to boil things down into simple likes and dislikes... some of you folks have gone off the deep end with your completely baseless conclusions.
LOVE:
SOPHIA? Gotta be a Blaster Master reference ...... *begins listening to podcast!*
HATE:
Oh no!! Trent Oster of Beamdog thinks the Wii tastes like sour grapes and doesn't "get" the Wii U.
This time, more than any of the hundreds of other times, Nintendo is really and truly ... doomed.
Thankfully Trent can keep his children fed on MDK2's successful XBL and PSN release ... oh... wait.
LOVE:
Just watched it. Loved it. I want to move to Japan and be a famicast production crewman!
... unfortunately, life has other plans :-\
HATE:
I agree, man ... funny how (gaming) media is always willing to look past its own shortcomings for the sake of criticizing others, right?
LOVE:
Best comment in the whole thread. This could have saved us all a lot of typing and should probably be "stickied" should this subject ever come up again.
Well done, Neal ;D
HATE:
If only there was a 1-year-old handheld to cover or a game coming out this week that people have (apparently) been waiting 20+ years for!
Realistically, if Xenoblade and TLS didn't get covered to death amidst the "why aren't we getting these games?!?! RAWR!!" phase the entire media went through, there might still be some articles to write about those =)
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on May 05, 2012, 12:32:06 PM
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 01:00:58 PM
Cool. The more people like yourself who speak up the less I'll look like a lone nut.
And I understand where NinSage is coming from. It's kind of frustrating to visit Nintendo news/fan sites, only to find a majority of the community bitching and complaining. But that's when I turn off the computer and go play some damn video games. :)
I believe your case supports exactly what I described earlier ...
I believe a silent majority of gamers who do simply appreciate the positives has taken the high road and said "f*ck this buzz kill ... Imma enjoy my games without 'em."
@UncleBob
If you disagree with the explanation I provided for this distinction, feel free to say why. But don't just keep ignoring it and thinking you're making points in spite of it.
@Jonny
You are correct. No one should have to invent enthusiasm. My point is, in theory, people who are passionate about gaming (a prereq for writing and in some sense being here, no?) should, almost mathematically (law of averages), find at least as many reasons to get excited as they have reasons to get depressed/upset.
It's clear we're not just talking about this one story here, right? So if, on average, people are more inclined to represent the negatives in gaming and forego the positives, why are they the best choice to cover gaming?
It's perfectly valid to merely call 'em as one sees 'em. That is ideal journalism. But there is clearly a lot to like about the world of gaming!! Yet it is glazed over. Treated as that which should be taken for granted. Meanwhile the smallest chink in the armor is taken as a valid excuse to poke the bees nest. That's not being informative or objective... and if that is a certain outlet's/writer's/gamer's perspective, it deserves to be challenged because there's a lot of good stuff going on.
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 01:06:34 PM
I'd be interested in stopping by your site and reading some of your well-written, informative and balanced articles.
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 01:14:22 PM
NinSage - you seem to have a lot of opinions on what would make a successful gaming news website.
I'd be interested in stopping by your site and reading some of your well-written, informative and balanced articles.
We don't have any sort of privileged access or industry connections whatsoever. So we've never been, or tried to be, a news outlet.
We've stumbled upon literally two opportunities to report novel news stories, ever.
So, what's your point?
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 05, 2012, 01:31:36 PM
Also, I can't make everyone else on this website excited for everything Nintendo, but I am somewhat bothered by the insinuation that I'm always negative about Nintendo. I'm likely the biggest Nintendo apologist on the site. I might be more negative regarding the downloads/3DS VC lately, but that's because, as you said is ideal, I calls it like I sees it. And right now, I sees a slow release slate and nothing that interests me in the download world.
Just wait for a week until I'm likely the only person in the gaming press that's all like "oh snap! Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV!" Then it'll balance out.
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 01:51:50 PM
NinSage - you seem to have a lot of opinions on what would make a successful gaming news website.
I'd be interested in stopping by your site and reading some of your well-written, informative and balanced articles.
We don't have any sort of privileged access or industry connections whatsoever. So we've never been, or tried to be, a news outlet.
We've stumbled upon literally two opportunities to report novel news stories, ever.
So, what's your point?
NinSage - you just don't get it, do you?
We're Nintendo fans. We wouldn't be here if we weren't. It's not like this site is ran by or populated with a bunch of Anti-Nintendo trolls out to show everyone how stupid Nintendo is or something.
Hell, I dare say, I'm more of a Nintendo fan than you are (but that's a ****ing contest for another thread).
But being a Nintendo fan doesn't mean you cannot post negative things about them. We're fans, not married.
For you, the negative sticks out far more than the positive.
But here's the trick - that's not just for you - that's for everyone.
Just as you have this idea that we're all a bunch of anti-Nintendo whiners, we're getting this picture of you in our heads as a whiny fan-boy.
Should we (i.e.: Forum posters - do note that I'm no a staff member) post more positive things about Nintendo? Mayhaps. Should the site feature more positive things about Nintendo? Possibly. But you know what I'm not doing when I'm not at work or on the internet? There's a good chance I'm playing Nintendo games. My 3DS is sitting on my chest right now, with Mario Kart 7 paused, as I continue to go for three stars in all cups (how come when I'm in second, I never see a blue shell go by... but when I'm in first, I get hit with them almost every time?!?).
Posting a negative voice is IMPORTANT.
Do you know how Nintendo knows we like them?
We spend money on them. I could show you a stack of the brand new titles I've purchased in the past year. Many of us were in line launch day for our 3DS. Most of us will be in line launch day for our Wii U. I've already requested the release day off (although we don't know when that is, I already told my boss I was going to need it off!).
We could post a bunch of positive stuff about Nintendo online. And, to some extent, that's good. However, it doesn't really do much. If everyone posted good about Nintendo, but didn't buy anything - well, you can see how that would have a negative effect on Nintendo. Between a choice of buying their stuff or posting positive things about them online, I'm betting Nintendo will pick the "buy our stuff" option.
But how do we covey things we don't like to Nintendo?
The obvious solution is to not buy Nintendo stuff. But there are several problems with that. First, not buying Nintendo stuff has a negative effect on Nintendo. None of us want that. Second, not buying Nintendo stuff means that we lose out on the Nintendo experience. Keeping in mind that we ARE (in spite of what anyone believes) Nintendo fans, we don't want that either. Most importantly, if we don't buy Nintendo products, then we're not Nintendo customers - meaning there's little reason for Nintendo to listen to what we have to say in the first place.
Thus, we're left with the other option - discussing what we don't like.
Now, I'm sure, every single one of us would love to have a direct line into Reggie's office so we can praise him or give him an earful - personally. But that number is hard to come by - and even when you get it, you still end up talking to his personal assistant who won't talk to you and threatens to get a restraining order if you keep calling/sending nude photos. In all seriousness, Nintendo is a pretty secretive, closed company that simply doesn't communicate well with those outside the company. They don't take outside submissions. Customer service contact - while above awesome for many issues - is barely more than form letter responses when submitting issues and concerns. It took them losing most all third party support for THREE GENERATIONS STRAIGHT before they actively involved third parties in the design process of their hardware.
So, we, random internet peons, are pretty much stuck *****ing to one another on the internet and hoping that the Reggie account that pops up on here every so often is really secretly Reggie.
You're still somewhat new around here - so you don't remember the old PlanetGameCube forums slogan. Anyone have that image handy?
In summary - While I may disagree that we post more negative things about Nintendo, I'll agree that the negative posts tend to stick out more than the positive ones - but that's merely a sign that we're very passionate about Nintendo. Many of us have had a Nintendo in the household for over twenty years straight. That's far longer than most marriages.
We love Nintendo - we wouldn't be here if we didn't.
But we don't need you criticizing US on how, exactly, we should go about discussing Nintendo.
Or do... but then don't be shocked to get called on it.
Post by: Halbred on May 05, 2012, 03:12:54 PM
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 03:14:24 PM
This article that we're commenting on has nothing to do with insider connections.
When did anyone say it did? He asked me about news on our site. Totally unrelated to this piece, which, as I said from the start, is not news, it's an editorial or "blog" as the site states.
Also, I can't make everyone else on this website excited for everything Nintendo,
No one is asking for anyone to force anything. My point is that it shouldn't require force. Does that make sense?
but I am somewhat bothered by the insinuation that I'm always negative about Nintendo.
I started by singling out this one article, not you. The conversation almost immediately shifted to game media and culture in general. So toss the assumption that this was/is all about you out the window!
I'm likely the biggest Nintendo apologist on the site.
I've noticed that and your passion. But even if you were the biggest Nintendo apologist in all of gaming media that wouldn't be saying very much, don't you agree?
I might be more negative regarding the downloads/3DS VC lately, but that's because, as you said is ideal, I calls it like I sees it. And right now, I sees a slow release slate and nothing that interests me in the download world.
And there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. Zero % wrong. The problem is when it never seems to balance out. Again, it's not about forcing positivity. But objective reporting, even when passionate and non-sterilized, should have even roughly equal measure good things to say. All I'm trying to communicate is that that shouldn't be such an insane and apparently offensive idea. Can anyone explain why that is the case?
Just wait for a week until I'm likely the only person in the gaming press that's all like "oh snap! Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV!" Then it'll balance out.
I look forward to it. And if the headline is in equal measure positive as this one was negative, I will surely compliment you on it. Of course, that compliment will go ignored and not start a big argument. Thus, I will not have the chance to further defend my comment. Thus, perpetuating my imbalanced percentage of praise to challenges.
Note...
Negative: "The Sad State of Virtual Console on 3DS in North America."
Neutral (news reporting): "Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV hit Nintendo platforms"
Positive: "Nintendo platforms going strong with Mario Tennis Open and Monster World IV"
@UncleBob
I truly appreciate that last comment. There was no ad hominem (except for maybe the first line) and you made a genuine attempt to further the discussion towards an understanding. This we can work with and it's an excellent example of how internet disagreements can be fruitful.
However, as great a post as it was, it largely offers solutions to a problem that was not raised. So, sadly, your good writing about voting with our wallets was not really pertinent. We can talk more on that if you want in another thread, but at least from my end, it's entirely unrelated to this one. Believe it or not I'm not here for Nintendo's or Reggie's egos or something :-P As arrogant as it may sound, I'm trying to facilitate OUR enjoyment. More on that later*.
I don't doubt that you guys love Nintendo.
I stick my nose in and hope I can tap in to the gaming passion that I know is hiding behind every bitter "critique."
So I think it's great that you're passionate about Nintendo and warm and fuzzy hearts may pop out of your eyes when new games are announced. But my challenge is why it's so crazy to let that be experienced and heard? Even if the only thing it could accomplish is make the gaming audience feel warmer, friendlier, happier emotions, why is that not as valid a reason as voicing complaints that no one of importance will hear?
Indeed, my issue is a larger problem with game culture that happens to be here in smaller part as well. That is, *this assumption that true gamers or devoted gamers or refined gamers are performing some "duty" by pointing out every flaw and treating displays of satisfaction as a sign of weakness. Like, for (an extreme) example, "the game was a 40-hour thrill ride but I noticed the shaders in level 5 were not rendered using Obtuse Engine 3. Also the jumps last 1.3 seconds where as a much less floaty 1.1 seconds was the obvious choice. In addition the game came out last week but the expansion doesn't come out until next week. What the hell am I supposed to do in the meantime, GameCompany X?!"
Conversely..."oh, my mom was playing Mario and was just tickled pink that when she pushed the button the little man on the screen jumped. What a n00b."
~
So, why do I darken NWR's doorstep? Well, as I said, I think it's way ahead of the curve. So why do I challenge it? Because my momma told me a long time ago that everyone fits in to 3 categories on a given subject: for it, against it, and on the fence. The ones on the fence are the only ones you have a real chance of reaching.
I could spend my time in the heart of darkness (Kotaku, G4), but that would just be a waste of everyone's time. Around here, I see a lot of potential for a place that has enough passion and power (connections/reach/readership) to actually be a voice for Nintendo that doesn't just bash it constantly. You have to admit, across the grand scheme of game media/culture, there is PLENTY of that.
~~~
I think maybe all the other words in this thread could be ignored except for this...
Should we ... post more positive things about Nintendo? Mayhaps. Should the site feature more positive things about Nintendo? Possibly.
So, why is it so insane and offensive to try that? All nonsense aside, that's all I'm really after.
So fine, if you don't want to soften the negative blows, why can't we just emphasize the positive ones a little more? What's the worst that could happen? Why is negativity perceived as "keepin' it real" by positivity is seen as "selling out?" People feel a little happier and more excited? People drop their guard a little bit?
Thanks again for the well-thought-out post, Bob. I do appreciate it.
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 03:23:44 PM
This article that we're commenting on has nothing to do with insider connections.
When did anyone say it did? He asked me about news on our site. Totally unrelated to this piece, which, as I said from the start, is not news, it's an editorial or "blog" as the site states.
Actually, I didn't ask about the news on your site - wasn't even aware you had one. I was being a smart***. ;)
But to Neal's point - this article, like many others that you seem to have a negative attitude towards, are not articles that require insider information, hard-to-aquire interviews, pre-release copies of games, etc., etc. It's an editorial (hey, didn't you say that's what's on your site?) analyzing one man's opinion regarding very public information.
Just like the thread where they posted the - very public - press release detailing the lack of games for the Wii.
Almost like the thread where a staff member discussed their disappointment with one of the rewards they ordered from Club Nintendo - though, I guess, the rewards aren't 100% "public", since you do have to be a member of their exclusive club. :D
You can write up an article - using this very same public information - detailing why the Virtual Console is so hot right now and why it's awesome to be the Wii. Then, link to it so we can all go to your site and read it.
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 05, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
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Totally unrelated to this piece
Then take it to another part of the forum. :)
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But objective reporting, even when passionate and non-sterilized, should have even roughly equal measure good things to say. All I'm trying to communicate is that that shouldn't be such an insane and apparently offensive idea. Can anyone explain why that is the case?
This was an opinionated article based on fact. We practice objectivity in our news stories, which, for the most part (the abstracts are usually the exception), just present the facts. Any review or editorial is inherently subjective. We're not aiming to be dishonest or inaccurate; we just present our subjective opinions in this blogs/editorials and in our podcasts. It's not an insane idea to write about something like the latest rush of Wii VC games; it's just not an idea that anyone on staff (except maybe Daan, who apparently is loving Super Hang-On) feels passionate about to write about. We are all 100% volunteer, so if we don't have the passion to write about something, it likely won't happen.
Go ahead and crap on other media outlets who do this professionally (and generally focus on things that interest them, which is usually not Nintendo-related), but don't attack our staff about how we're not super jazzed for Street Fighter II on Genesis being online.
And I know you're not meaning to attack us, but as I'll continue to say, your writing style and heavy use of bold say otherwise. I know from talking to you that you don't mean to attack us in the way some members of the forums/staff take it, but the fact that we all generally take it as you attacking us means that we're not crazy.
Post by: Chocobo_Rider on May 05, 2012, 03:40:20 PM
Is there a better way I should do this?
Post by: broodwars on May 05, 2012, 03:47:35 PM
Post by: UncleBob on May 05, 2012, 03:48:06 PM
You may not believe it, but even I read through your posts before responding to them.
Post by: BeautifulShy on May 05, 2012, 04:08:19 PM
Second of all I think most people here on this site would either not do it publicly here like Sage is doing here and do it via PM also I do want to point out that I have noticed that the writing style lately has been getting a bit less objective. I just haven't had the time to comment on them personally or the patience to either. I am busy with many things myself.
Post by: broodwars on May 05, 2012, 04:10:22 PM
First of all Broodwars are we really resorting to name calling here. I do know what you are referring to and it is cute.
Which is why I went back and added the winking face emoticon, as that was really meant to be more joking than originally written.
Post by: ejamer on May 05, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
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@ejamer
A fair point. But why have people bothered complaining about a lack of Wii VC if they won't be pleased by quality releases? The answer to that only seems to be that they expected/demanded (good) games being released CONSTANTLY and indefinitely. Which might be a little unrealistic, no?
Except people here are complaining about the 3DS Virtual Console - a service that should be going strong right now because there aren't that many retail (or even digital) releases to compete with, making it the perfect opportunity to fill in the current gaps with older catalog titles.
It's great to see that Wii Virtual Console still has some life, but for many people it's a case of "too little, too late" since they've already moved on. For 3DS it's prime time right now, which is probably why some people are vocally disappointed that NoA seems to be avoiding 3DS Virtual Console releases. (Although NoE has shown far fewer original eShop releases - we probably get the better deal on that one?)
...
Problem is, we really don't know what the answer is, since Nintendo is historically frustratingly tight-lipped about their inner workings, but I seriously doubt it's part of some evil plot by Reggie to hate upon Nintendo fans.
...
Good points all around from this post, but I wanted to highlight this statement because limited communication and a failure to set appropriate expectations is what has me the most frustrated with NoA over the past couple of years. (Better communication and fan involvement isn't required. It sure would be nice though.)
Post by: C-Olimar on May 05, 2012, 07:06:34 PM
Post by: TheLastMetroid21 on May 07, 2012, 12:38:03 AM
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"Oh, you want balance? You got it. You know those Club Nintendo blog posts I write? I've written favorable reviews of Kirby patches, Hanafuna cards, Mario & Co. figurine, Mario buttons, and DS game case. I wrote unfavorable pieces about the Wii Remote holder aaand the Handheld History cards (which you threw a hissy fit about). So for Club Nintendo rewards, guess what? I'm MORE Positive than negative. But that's not good enough, is it? What kind of skew would you like to see? 90-10? 95-5? 'Cause it's not 50/50, and it's not 80/20, either.
Oh, but I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you. In fact, it seems people misunderstand you a LOT. As a rhetoric major who drafts and interprets construction contracts for a living, I can tell you that the fault lies not with the audience. Want to be a better rhetor? Go study Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Cicero and Quintillion. When you can form a cohesive argument clearly, concisely, and free of argumentative fallacies, we'll talk."
That was completely unprofessional and insulting. What is this IGN?
As a new reader this is extremely off putting. I may not return if i am spoken to this way
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 07, 2012, 12:56:49 PM
I am noticing, per a Twitter interaction with people over this week's possible North American downloads, I'm getting increasingly spiteful about all this. It's just a terrible feeling not thinking anything for the Game Boy will come out knowing how much I enjoyed regular 3DS VC releases of Game Boy games last year. Game Gear games are okay, as it is likely Sonic Labyrinth will hit NA on Thursday, but that's a system I could really care less about. I bought the previous Sonic GG game and was nonplussed.
I just really want to play Kid Icarus GB, Wario Land, Kirby's Block Ball, G&W Gallery 2, etc. It is beginning to not make sense to me in any way, shape, or form, as to why these haven't come out in North America. I'm just baffled.
Post by: Kytim89 on May 07, 2012, 03:16:39 PM
Post by: NWR_Neal on May 07, 2012, 03:46:42 PM
At the very least a "this month in games" press release like Japan always does would do.
Post by: NWR_DrewMG on May 07, 2012, 06:26:43 PM
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but balance it out with equal measures praise and gratitude.
We should be GRATEFUL that Nintendo allows us to buy their products?
Post by: Halbred on May 07, 2012, 09:45:03 PM
Quote"Oh, you want balance? You got it. You know those Club Nintendo blog posts I write? I've written favorable reviews of Kirby patches, Hanafuna cards, Mario & Co. figurine, Mario buttons, and DS game case. I wrote unfavorable pieces about the Wii Remote holder aaand the Handheld History cards (which you threw a hissy fit about). So for Club Nintendo rewards, guess what? I'm MORE Positive than negative. But that's not good enough, is it? What kind of skew would you like to see? 90-10? 95-5? 'Cause it's not 50/50, and it's not 80/20, either.
Oh, but I'm sure I'm just misunderstanding you. In fact, it seems people misunderstand you a LOT. As a rhetoric major who drafts and interprets construction contracts for a living, I can tell you that the fault lies not with the audience. Want to be a better rhetor? Go study Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Cicero and Quintillion. When you can form a cohesive argument clearly, concisely, and free of argumentative fallacies, we'll talk."
That was completely unprofessional and insulting. What is this IGN?
As a new reader this is extremely off putting. I may not return if i am spoken to this way
You probably won't be. For some context as to why I reacted this way, do a forum search for threads involving NinSage. I'll get you started.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/28268 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/blog/28268)
