Our second Game Club dives into Nintendo and Team Ninja's divisive 2010 release.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/29979
Last month's inaugural Game Club was A Boy and His Blob, a universally adored game from Majesco and WayForward. This month, we tackle a different beast: Nintendo and Team Ninja's controversial Metroid: Other M.
Some people really dug Other M (like me!), while others weren't the biggest fans of the game, thinking it did more harm than good for the franchise. The sales numbers and critical confusion certainly made the future of Metroid murky for the first time in a decade.
So, go check out Metroid: Other M for the first time or the tenth. Then discuss it in the forums with our staff and community. We'll be writing up features, referencing old ones, and discussing the game on Connectivity at the end of the month. We might have some surprises, too (I'll be coy, since they could very easily not happen).
Metroid: Other M - Beat it the first time I played in the span of a week.
Metroid fans loved Other M:
Spotty dialogue still beats no dialogue in my book.
I thought Retro did a magnificent job of offering a deep narrative while still staying true to the spirit of isolation and openness that are integral to the franchise.
While I won't defend Other M's dialogue, I'll bitch a bit about the Metroid Prime narrative delivery. If I want to read all that ****, I'll buy a book. In Metroid Prime, I was obsessive about reading new lores and stuff, but then it got to a point where I felt like I was reading more than playing. From what I hear, Mass Effect has a similar issue. I don't think Prime's narrative is bad. It's decently compelling, but it's something that most people will completely ignore.
Though I guess that's why it works. You can just ignore what you don't care about. In Other M, it's always there.
I completely understand why people hate on Other M's dialogue. To me, it's some of the best comedy Nintendo has ever delivered.
I completely understand why people hate on Other M's dialogue. To me, it's some of the best comedy Nintendo has ever delivered.
But you say yourself that you don't usually care for story in games at all. That sort of invalidates your assessment since you just need a working START button to skip stuff and all execution becomes irrelevant on your end.
@Insano
But you say yourself that you don't usually care for story in games at all. That sort of invalidates your assessment since you just need a working START button to skip stuff and all execution becomes irrelevant on your end.
When I was a kid and story was very minimal, kids always described the cool parts of the game from their perspective. It wasn't "Mario did this or that" it was "*I* defeated Bowser. *I* made this impossible jump. The boss did this and *I* had to dodge it." When I think of a very cutscene oriented game like MGS it's gets described as "Snake jumps off this missile. Snake says 'Metal Gear?!'" Nobody ever says "I did this" when describing a cutscene. It's like in a typical videogame I'm me until a cutscene starts and it switches to someone else and then I take over again.
@ChozoGhost
Yea... Samus sure isn't tough or brave in Other M.
Who blew up all those aliens when Samus was crying her way back home?
This is a sharp contrast from every other Metroid game where Samus saves the day by herself.
Metroid: other M (Wii)
I found it for $10 new
Gameplay wise this game is solid with a few caveats: it would have been better with a nunchuck/wiimote control scheme since the game insists that you move into the first person despite the fact that other M would have been better off without it; In fact if there wasn't any first person integration the classic controller would be the way to go. The Hunt and peck portions of the game do a good job of replacing any enjoyment with frustration, spending 20 minutes not being able to move Samus while trying to look for anything that will trigger the next event is not fun in the slightest. I'm not even going to bother writing about the terrible story/dialogue; that horse has been beaten to death, ground into meat and made into glue. Just know that my score accounts for it. Like I said before though, the core gameplay concept of other M is solid and if the above issues were resolved I wouldn't have any objections to the next Metroid game following the same formula.
6/10
@GoldenPhoenix
+1 ... hundred.
@Lithium
Don't forget, dialogue and story are two separate things. I hated the dialogue but loved the story. You make a good point about some people not being able to overlook the bad to enjoy the good, though. It certainly is a skill that varies not only person to person, but game to game.
I am not immune to this. I loved Conduit 1 but HATED Conduit 2. Why? The game was better in nearly every way. Except, they made Michael Ford (almost literally) into Duke Nukem. I couldn't get past it.
I think most of the negativity around it is more over people's perceptions of who Samus should and shouldn't be based on their own interpretations from the limited characterization of her in previous games, more so then the story itself, that aspect alone seems to have created the most hostility.
It's kind of weird, but one of the reasons I always appreciated Nintendo as a developer was because their control schemes were always so honed and refined. Between Metroid: Other M, Donkey Kong Country Returns (shake to roll? What the hell is wrong with the classic controller?) and Kid Icarus: Uprising, Nintendo has made some serious mistakes in recent years.
Besides video game stories are not really known for being amazing works of art, and compared to many games out there, the story was A+++ material (which I admit is pretty sad, but that says more about the lack of storytelling skills in the industry then anything)!
Samus: That computer reminds me of a gruff Federation CO I served under named Adam Malkovich. He called me "Lady" on missions; from anyone else, it would've sounded sarcastic, but Adam made it sound dignified. Out of respect and with some irony, I named the computer after him.
Samus: As I listened to the briefing, my thoughts turned to Adam. The real Adam understood me well. He would end orders by saying, "Any objections, Lady?" He knew I wouldn't disagree. That was just his way of noting our trust. I wonder if I can trust this computer, too...
Samus: The real Adam would have said the same thing about that incident, but he would have softened the blow. He was relentless in his criticism, but he always cared... He was not a machine obsessed with duty. No such compassion could exist in that computer...
SC: And what would this...friend advise you to do now?
Samus: He would know that the only way to end this is to start the self-destruct cycle. He'd know how important it is...
SC: Did this "Adam" care for you? Would he sit in a safe Command Room and order you to die?
Samus: He would understand that some must live and some must die... He knew what it meant. He made that sacrifice once.
SC: So, he chose life for you? Our fair warrior, Samus Aran... Your Adam gave his life so that you might keep yours... For the sake of the universe...
Adam: Then return to your ship and escape. Move quickly, and stay alive. That's an order! Any objections, Lady?
Samus: That perfect military mind... The wisdom of Adam Malkovich continued to serve even after death. Until today, I had no idea that the minds of leaders and scientists were frequently uploaded to computers. My incredible reunion with Adam may have saved the universe...
But how will the beings of the universe view our resolve? I doubt they will understand what we did... the danger we barely averted. They will hold tribunals and investigations. They will hold us responsible. Adam understood this, and he spoke to me in my anger...
"Do not worry. One of them will understand. One of them must."
I've reflected upon his words, and I see the wisdom in them. We are all bound by our experiences. They are the limits of our consciousness.
But in the end, the human soul will ever reach for the truth... This is what Adam taught me.
I think most of the negativity around it is more over people's perceptions of who Samus should and shouldn't be based on their own interpretations from the limited characterization of her in previous games, more so then the story itself, that aspect alone seems to have created the most hostility.
It's not an issue of "perception" or "interpretation" when Samus acts completely contrary to the character established in previous games. You want to argue that in the NES and Super NES Metroids that Samus was merely an avatar for the player because modern storytelling conventions weren't common back then? Fine, but it doesn't explain how the Samus in Other M is completely different from the one shown in the Metroid Prime games, which were created with full cutscenes (albeit largely unvoiced). But just like how Sakamoto almost seems to go out of his way to not reference the Western-made and more financially/critically successful Prime games, he likewise also probably didn't want to acknowledge the Samus character solidified by Western developers.
Both Fusion and Zero Mission also IIRC had internal monologue cutscenes and some dialogue, and Samus wasn't anywhere near as whiny and emotionally unstable as she was in Other M. I don't remember reading posts and articles around the release of any of those games from people saying that "that's not Samus", yet that was commonly the case with Other M. Other M's Samus is just very incongruous from her previous depictions, especially when it comes to her dealings with Ridley (which I've extensively detailed in my previous posts on this matter). In fact, the only other Metroid product that apparently has a similar Samus was a Japan-only manga, to which I say "if it's not consistent with the other games, it's not canon."
Besides video game stories are not really known for being amazing works of art, and compared to many games out there, the story was A+++ material (which I admit is pretty sad, but that says more about the lack of storytelling skills in the industry then anything)!
Maybe the actual story itself in Other M is fine. Who knows. I can't tell because the actual storyTELLING is unbearable. The laziest, least cinematic way to tell stories in any visual medium is through straightforward narration. Another terrible storytelling technique is overt, on the nose dialog. Main characters should also not be confined to a narrow emotional range for very long. Other M has ALL of these things.
Does the game deserve a pass because this is Nintendo's first attempt at something like this? I mean it's understandable, but no, it doesn't. The best thing to come out of this generation is the improved storytelling in video games. Games like Bioshock, Red Dead Redemption, GTAIV, Mass Effect, Uncharted, Portal, Ghost Trick, etc. have all raised the bar considerably in this area. Really, I'm beyond fine with Nintendo not including narrative in their games at all or doing so minimally, but if you're gonna have a lot of story in a game these days, you better know how to do it right.
Other M was really the first game to truly delve into her complexities as a character, and I APPRECIATE that. I've always viewed Other M as a retcon/reimagining of the series, including Samus, to push it beyond the avatar portrayal of Samus.
Ian may be onto something... maybe Samus being so emotional in Other M is a reflection of Sakamoto and his own personality. Maybe Samus breaking down and crying in the game is based off Sakamoto's reaction to Retro taking "his" Metroid franchise, and then upstaging him by making a superior version. Maybe that really got to him so much that he did break down and cry in real life, and made him so desperate to take the series back and make it his own again.
Then you have the dictatorial Adam character telling Samus and everyone else what to do. Maybe Sakamoto identified with this Adam character. Maybe that's a window into his mindset while making this game and his feeling over Retro and what they did with "his" franchise.
A lot of that sounds like it's plucked right from Other M, don't it?
Found the game for $5. My interest has been piqued with all the arguing back-and-forth in this thread to invest the time to play it. This'll be interesting, especially since it's my first Metroid game.That might actually be beneficial to you. Then, you can move on to the better ones, namely Super Metroid and Metroid Prime... unless Other M scars you so much that you don't want to.
The silly story choice of "permission" seemed ludicrous
The silly story choice of "permission" seemed ludicrous
Agreed. But is it any more ludicrous than an alien planet being full of compatible missile and energy upgrades?
Or starting every mission with only the base equipment?
No one wants to field this simple "yes" or "no" question?A lot of that sounds like it's plucked right from Other M, don't it?
@broodwars
Use your imagination, eh? :) So, what was the story you used to tell yourself for how all this compatible gear got lodged deep within the bowels of an alien planet?
@broodwars
Sorry, honest mix-up. Though I actually find the way you intended even more surprising. I don't recall anything explaining the item placement (aside from the Chozo stuff obviously) in the original manuals. Got a link?
So, is this game worth paying ten dollars for, or am I better off not wasting my time and money on?
@Rachtman
Stay strong, brotha. :P: : : : ;) Remember, most Metroid fans on this one message board agree with us: link (http://www.metroid-database.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3710)
@broodwars
I meant all the random missile expansions and energy tanks.
If I ignore everything about Other M that I absolutely hate (the story, the writing, the pixel hunts, the forced item progression, the fact that you can't 100% the game before facing the Queen, the WORST FINAL BOSS "FIGHT" OF ANY GAME EVER, etc.), I like the game. The gameplay is generally surprisingly good.
I genuinely believe that Other M is meant to replace Fusion in the mainline continuity, though. I honestly do. There are lots of reasons for it, and I'll be writing about it for a feature this month. We may also debate it on Connectivity.It would kind of have to or at least one of them has to not count because they don't make sense in the same series, such as Samus learning of a Metroid cloning program and the Nightmare boss showing up. Other M attempts to explain that away by having the Galactic Federation extract its remains from the Bottle Ship but Samus never does say, "Oh, you again..." in Fusion. Yeah, I understand the whole "how can you reference a story that hasn't been written yet?" However, don't write a story that way just because you think something is cool (which is the problem most fanfiction runs into) or, preferably, plan it ahead of time.
I genuinely believe that Other M is meant to replace Fusion in the mainline continuity, though. I honestly do. There are lots of reasons for it, and I'll be writing about it for a feature this month. We may also debate it on Connectivity.
Even the "sexualization" is present from the very first game when you can see her in a bikini!
It's even more revealing than the Zero Suit, but as I've been saying in many regards to the game, it was the technology that changes people's views. If you rendered Samus' bikini version from the NES original in gorgeous modern CGI? Yea.... stop the presses! Nintendo porn!
I'm not even sure that's a plot hole as much as a plot-not-able-to-see-100%-into-the-future. As mentioned above, they still did a rather admirable job fitting the events of Other M into the quotes I provided from Fusion.Are you for... Seriously?
Yeah, I understand the whole "how can you reference a story that hasn't been written yet?" However, don't write a story that way just because you think something is cool (which is the problem most fanfiction runs into) or, preferably, plan it ahead of time.Not only are they completely avoidable plot holes considering Fusion already existed but they're created by Other M's very existence. Other M almost does a decent job of fitting in between Metroid 3 and 4. All Sakamoto needed to do was not step on the toes of a story he wrote himself some 8 years earlier. He has access to all of his notes and reference materials because they're his notes. If he can't be bothered to keep track of his own ****, he shouldn't have that responsibility.
Another thing to consider is the Bikini Samus was only revealed at the very end of the game, and for a very short period of time.
Not only are they completely avoidable plot holes considering Fusion already existed but they're created by Other M's very existence. Other M almost does a decent job of fitting in between Metroid 3 and 4. All Sakamoto needed to do was not step on the toes of a story he wrote himself some 8 years earlier. He has access to all of his notes and reference materials because they're his notes. If he can't be bothered to keep track of his own ****, he shouldn't have that responsibility.
The quotes I listed above directly reference events in Other M.
The real Adam would have said the same thing about that incident, but he would have softened the blow. He was relentless in his criticism, but he always cared...
The word he so obviously chose, "outsider," pierced my heart.
Even the "sexualization" is present from the very first game when you can see her in a bikini!
It's even more revealing than the Zero Suit, but as I've been saying in many regards to the game, it was the technology that changes people's views. If you rendered Samus' bikini version from the NES original in gorgeous modern CGI? Yea.... stop the presses! Nintendo porn!
Another thing to consider is the Bikini Samus was only revealed at the very end of the game, and for a very short period of time. The form fitting Zero suit on the other hand reveals every nook and cranny, and is shown for a longer length of time during the cutscenes, and even during gameplay in some cases.
Its also a bit debatable that the Bikini is more revealing, because the Bikini isn't spandex and doesn't mold itself to her like a second skin the way the Zero suit does. Granted, the bikini does cover less skin, though.
it doesn't constitute a full plot hole.How can you have part of a plot hole? It's either one or it isn't. As it stands, without an explanation, it makes no sense. Your making excuses for what is ultimately just bad writing. For a story that force feeds every plot point ad nauseum, I find it extremely suspect that Sakamoto chooses this one instance to leave it up to interpretation.
During the times she talks to Adam and he tells her about a weapon, how is she suppose to know it was the same thing she fought in Other M since she doesn't actually see the creature in Fusion until she finally fights it.How is she suppose to... He calls it "Nightmare." Then, he describes what it is, what it does, and why it's so dangerous.
So you mean to tell me that Ship-Adam tells Samus all of that and her reaction would be, "Wha- Well, that could be anything!" Other M creates a plot hole because these events are inconsistent and Fusion now blatantly disregards that Samus already knows what the Nightmare is based on Other M's place chronologically. Sakamoto goes out of his way to include this enemy in an attempt to tie the games together but he pushes them further apart.
Never played beyond an hour for any Metroid game. Would this be a bad starting point?It may actually be a good starting point since you don't have an idealized vision of what Metroid should be, but just remember that other Metroid games are not like this (except maybe Metroid Fusion).
...how is Samus suppose to know it's the exact same creature she fought in Other M? For all she knew, they could have created a new type of gravity manipulating monster that was completely different from the one she fought in Other M.Really? You think Samus would just chalk it up to there being a different random gravity manipulating monster wreaking havoc on a similar vessel and draw absolutely no comparisons to the one that tried to kill her on the very day her mentor, friend, and father figure sacrificed himself due to Galactic Federation negligence. All of that despite her nostalgic elevator asides about Adam. Then, after destroying Nightmare a second time, she wouldn't mention it at all or question the motives of the people who sent her on this mission who may also potentially be behind the massive cloning conspiracy that she uncovered the last time she took down Nightmare. That's what happened? Okay...
Considering Nightmare was a top secret weapon for the Federation, only high ranking officals like Adam actually knew it's name. Since Adam never tells Samus the name of the creature in Other M, it's literally impossible for her to know what Nightmare is until the exact moment she fights it in Fusion. So once again, this part of Other M isn't a plot hole because it is pretty easily explainable.So, she doesn't know the name of it and so no comparisons a drawn? At all? None? Then, after killing it again, nothing still? That's a pretty shoddy explanation for what simply amounts to poor writing. Sakamoto could have avoided this by just not putting the creature in there. Problem solved. What you're doing is trying to make sense of what the game doesn't or does badly. You're trying to fill in the holes in a game that demanded that players do no such thing because it didn't trust them enough to draw simple comparisons to babies and bottles and motherhood without shoving it down their throats. In a story so blatant about everything, there is no room for interpretation. Sakamoto's writing in Other M is negligent and flat-out awful at times. These instances of poor writing completely changes how one views Samus and the events of Fusion. If we are to take Other M as is, as the prequel to Fusion rather than in place of it, Samus is, at best, suffering from amnesia or, at worst, an idiot.
So if we go from a game everyone likes to a game everyone is divided on, will next time's game be one that everyone hates? If so, go with Carmageddon 64.
But Carmageddon 64 is worse, if you can believe that. Gotta make sure everyone hates it.So if we go from a game everyone likes to a game everyone is divided on, will next time's game be one that everyone hates? If so, go with Carmageddon 64.I have a better idea: How about Superman 64? ;)
Look, we're all assuming that Other M takes place between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. What I'm suggesting is that Other M retcons Fusion out of the continuity entirely. According to Other M, Fusion never happened. It also conveniently allows Sakamoto to avoid dealing with the aftermath of Fusion (Samus is part Metroid now) by creating a new canon.
Q: Talk about why you decided to return to Samus' story after the events of Super Metroid.
Sakamoto: Metroid: Other M is an episode which fills in the blanks of the overall Metroid storyline between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. We couldn't just leave this part of the storyline untouched. It's so critical that without addressing it, we wouldn't be able to make new games that show Samus' adventures that take place after the events of Metroid Fusion.
Q: Does this game bring Samus' story to an end or leave room for future adventures?
Sakamoto: Since chronologically, Metroid: Other M is followed by Metroid Fusion, it is certainly not the end for Samus. However, it was important for us to address the storyline of Metroid: Other M before looking at events that happen later in her life.
Sakamoto also likes to pretend the Prime games aren't canon, so I honestly couldn't care less what he thinks about the canon of the franchise.
What I'm suggesting is that Other M retcons Fusion out of the continuity entirely.
But there's nothing in Other M that makes Fusion unable to happen. Plus Sakamoto himself even says this game takes place between Super Metroid and Fusion which means that's were it takes place.
Sakamoto also likes to pretend the Prime games aren't canon, so I honestly couldn't care less what he thinks about the canon of the franchise.
Plus, if you don't care what the god damn primary creative director thinks then your roll in this conversation is unnecessary. Sorry, friend =\
He even took a loose supervisory role in the creative direction of Prime 1+2.
Seriously, it's like some of you Sakamoto haters are just looking to make things up to hate about him.
Miyamoto of all people had it changed to a first person camera? Is it known why he did that? I figured he'd want it to be third person.He originally wanted Ocarina of Time to be 1st person as well. I recall an old interview where Miyamoto mentioned that 1st person was ideal for Metroid because there are a lot of enclosed spaces and corridors. I'd have to dig through a pile of old EGMs to find the exact quote.
There's no reasoning when people object to the reasons themselves!And you're objecting to their reasoning. That's what makes it a discussion. That's (presumably) what we're all doing on an Internet message board in the first place. Welcome to the party. Glad you could make it.
I agree that Team Ninja did a great job on the game's production values. If the whole thing was left up to them, I'd bet money the game would have been better overall.
And really, Adrock? You really think the man who gave us...Yes. He's a good game designer. To me, Super Metroid is nearly flawless. I can't think of one bad thing to say about the game. I kind of wish it was longer but that might have affected the pacing. You're picking apart one game but his track record is pretty solid. I admit Other M is not perfect but the bulk of its gameplay is good. I had fun with it.
- No backtracking and minimal exploration in a Metroid game.
- Forced Wiimote-only 3D gameplay on a console that has an analog stick attachment.
- Terrible static 1st person shooting that requires you to flip the Wiimote, a process that apparently didn't always work for some gamers.
- "Pixel Hunt" first-person sequences.
- Pointless "slow-moving, over the shoulder" 3rd person sequences.
...was "being good at...being a game designer"? :confused;
Yes. He's a good game designer. To me, Super Metroid is nearly flawless. I can't think of one bad thing to say about the game. I kind of wish it was longer but that might have affected the pacing. You're picking apart one game but his track record is pretty solid. I admit Other M is not perfect but the bulk of its gameplay is good. I had fun with it.
