Community Forums => General Chat => Topic started by: Morari on December 31, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
Title: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on December 31, 2011, 12:03:40 PM
...and withdraws their support for SOPA. Of course, this is probably just lip service. SOPA brings about bad press, and I'm sure Nintendo wants to distance themselves from it for that reason and that reason alone. Lest they end up like GoDaddy.
Regardless of what the article states, Sony is still onboard with the bill. Several of their subsidies can be found on the list. We already knew that Sony hates their customers though. :P
Edit: I didn't notice that this hit the main page of the site as well. Might be best to relegate discussion to that Talk Back thread.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 31, 2011, 01:08:08 PM
SOPA is a good bill, but you have people spreading misinformation about it. If you don't support illegal content, then you have nothing to worry about. I am disappointed that Nintendo caved in to pressure from criminal groups like Anonymous.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 31, 2011, 01:58:15 PM
SOPA is horse **** and I can't believe any end-user would ever even *consider* supporting something like it. You are completely wrong about the "don't support illegal content" it's not even funny.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on December 31, 2011, 02:44:10 PM
No I am not wrong. Read the bill, not just what opponents of it say.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: bustin98 on December 31, 2011, 03:04:03 PM
The problem is it doesn't define what illegal content is, and places the fight in the courts, which ultimately means the deepest pockets wins. It takes free choice and free speech out of the end users hands and into the hands of a group of lawyers who will scourer the Internet looking for objectional material. There is no 'innocent before proven guilty'.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on December 31, 2011, 05:01:10 PM
TJ, please move to China. I think you'd like the way their government works. ;)
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on December 31, 2011, 07:20:16 PM
but you have people spreading misinformation about it.
Yeah, in fact there is someone on this site who is doing just that. I'm not going to name any names, but here is an example of the sort of misinformation being spread about SOPA:
Quote
SOPA is a good bill,
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 31, 2011, 07:46:32 PM
if it was a good bill, I don't think Google, EA, Nintendo would have backed off (or any other company that doesn't have the RIAA/MPAA/FBI, etc) in their pocket. This has nothing to do with being afraid of some DDOS hacks by Anonymous - after all, they're in it for the lulz (and you know how they feel about lulz...), and apparently like Nintendo.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Spenczar on December 31, 2011, 09:23:55 PM
SOPA is the sequel to DOTA. right?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on December 31, 2011, 10:49:40 PM
No, but it is Spanish for soup.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: ShyGuy on December 31, 2011, 11:42:26 PM
Wise fwom the gwave, Nintendo...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 16, 2012, 04:39:27 AM
The US Congress has shelved the Stop Online Piracy Act. (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2012_01/putting_sopa_on_a_shelf034765.php) Clearly, Nintendo dropping support was a major factor in this.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Plugabugz on January 16, 2012, 06:00:50 AM
Given the Digital Economy Act had a similar-to-SOPA portion removed because it's not workable here either, i'm not surprised SOPA was shelved.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 16, 2012, 08:40:58 AM
PIPA been stopped also? It's the fraternal twin to SOPA in motive and just as damaging.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 16, 2012, 09:11:11 AM
PIPA's still alive, although they've removed a lot of the most offensive parts of it. We'll see if the backlash continues and gets that killed as well.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 16, 2012, 09:28:07 AM
That's awesome, now the 1/18 protests probably won't have to take place.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 10:12:46 AM
They "shelved" it. I guess that means it could be brought back up at some point. The danger isn't over it, so it would be foolish for those against this to let their guard down. Maybe that was the reason why it was shelved; to wait until all the opposition die down, and then once everyone has forgotten about it, then quietly reintroduce it for a more smooth passage.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Shaymin on January 16, 2012, 06:41:03 PM
Or waiting until there isn't an election staring everyone in the face.
I'd say we see it rear its ugly head about this time next year.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 16, 2012, 07:44:36 PM
That's awesome, now the 1/18 protests probably won't have to take place.
If any sites were stupid enough to do that, I would have supported any permanent boycott of those sites because they would be the true enemy. PIPA isn't as bad and will help protect IP's.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 07:50:42 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 16, 2012, 08:42:24 PM
Once again you show that you don't understand anything, TJ. The sites that were going to go dark are some of the same sites that would most likely be shut down due to SOPA - giving the internet a preview of what is to come should this horrid legislation pass. And these sites would only be down until the online petitions that they were going to link to would hit a certain amount of signatures, which would probably only be a matter of minutes.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 16, 2012, 09:15:46 PM
Of course he does, he's just trolling. No one can be so absolutely authoritarian without something to gain from it. I imagine that since TJ is just a middle-class white kid, and is not making any money off of these statements, it must all just be an elaborate inside joke.
The only other explanation is that he's afraid to have to think for himself.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 16, 2012, 09:18:46 PM
Sites still need to protest. SOPA isn't dead, if it was, that would be the headline. I just really hope I don't have to use Wikipedia that day.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 09:34:14 PM
Once again you show that you don't understand anything, TJ. The sites that were going to go dark are some of the same sites that would most likely be shut down due to SOPA - giving the internet a preview of what is to come should this horrid legislation pass. And these sites would only be down until the online petitions that they were going to link to would hit a certain amount of signatures, which would probably only be a matter of minutes.
On Wikipedia, only free use images are allowed, so they wouldn't be affected. Even SOPA would not be as bad as opponents claim.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 10:09:22 PM
On Wikipedia, only free use images are allowed, so they wouldn't be affected. Even SOPA would not be as bad as opponents claim.
They said the same thing about giving Hitler dictatorial powers, and look what happened. Any power that can be abused will be abused if given enough time. So the best policy is to not give anyone that power in the first place.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 16, 2012, 10:26:08 PM
Hitler comparisons only hurt your argument.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 10:42:37 PM
Another thing you could compare it to is like a witch hunt where someone could get burned to death based on accusation alone. In this case with SOPA websites can be shut down based on mere accusation. That's the danger this legislation poses. There is no due process.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 16, 2012, 10:48:58 PM
It's not valid though. Unless your site is illegally hosting content, you have nothing to be worried about.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 16, 2012, 10:58:30 PM
It's not valid though. Unless your site is illegally hosting content, you have nothing to be worried about.
Yeah you do, because you have to worry someone will wrongly accuse you of hosting illegal content and have your site shut down without due process of law.
And if you think just because you are innocent you have nothing to worry about I can direct you to articles of people shot and killed by the DEA who made a drug raid on the wrong house and they thought someone had a gun but it ended up just being a tv remote. So don't tell me just because you are innocent you have nothing to fear from the law. People are literally dead because of mistakes. Now sites getting shut down isn't as bad as people getting killed, but its not right either.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 17, 2012, 11:59:18 AM
I think that the widespread abuse of the DMCA is proof enough that the media cartels don't need the kind of power SOPA would present to them. Never mind the recent illegal seizure of foreign domains by the DHS and ICE. This brewing "War on Piracy" will be just as successful as every other made-up, ideological battle... be it drugs or terror. Criminals will continue completely unaffected, while your average Joe is rounded up, tried, and convicted. Perhaps we should try looking at what's wrong with the copyright system and fixing it instead? Let's repel all of these Disney-friendly copyright terms of life + 70 years. Let's get things into the public domain, so that they can be taken, used, and expanded upon.
Dim-witted authoritarians always like to use the "if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide" argument. I assume it comes from a combined lack of foresight, perception of human nature, and historical education. These are the kind of people that would have telescreens installed in every room of every house if they could. Because corporations are people, and we just have to look out for peoples' best interest, right?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 17, 2012, 12:40:09 PM
That's awesome, now the 1/18 protests probably won't have to take place.
If any sites were stupid enough to do that, I would have supported any permanent boycott of those sites because they would be the true enemy. PIPA isn't as bad and will help protect IP's.
So now that Wikipedia's going dark tomorrow to protest PIPA, I guess TJ Spyke boycotting it means he won't be using it as a source of information for his pedantic corrections anymore.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 17, 2012, 01:45:47 PM
I haven't used Wikipedia for information (other than stuff like game sales) in quite some time.
Morari, please explain how you think letting more stuff into public domain sooner would help stop piracy?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 17, 2012, 03:00:21 PM
Well if more things go to the public domain, those things that use to be pirated wouldn't be.
I think pirating is a good thing though for a few reasons.
1. It allows people who can't afford media to experience it. This allows a greater amount of people to become fans and if it's good enough the creators will make more than enough money.
2. It sets a higher standard of excellence. A lot of people who don't deem it worthy to go see a movie in theaters will wait for it to come out on DVD. Piracy lets people take it one step further and allows people who don't deem it worthy to rent or buy to still watch it. This makes the standards of movies that excell much higher. So despite giant ad campaigns, movies that are terrible won't make as much money as Hollywood execs are use to making. Eventually crap like Green Latern should stop being made, but I admit, it could backfire due to studios playing it safe and movie goers not wanting to risk their money on a creative film. Still, despite those good creative films flopping, a fan base will grow due to point number 1.
3. Piracy allows for remixes. Remixing is possibly the greatest thing ever. It's taking an idea and manipulating or adding to it. This is a fundamental step to the innovation process and a fundamental step to human intellectual evolution. It is so influential in fact that every product that we deal with, even the food we eat, is a remix of a product long ago. Remixing is essentially taking an idea and trying to make it better. Now imagine if all ideas were free to manipulate and there was nothing called piracy, human imagination could be set loose. People could actually dabble with things and ideas without the fear of persecution.
Now I understand there are people who sell other people's ideas for themselves and that's wrong, but the recognition is never transferred nor is there such a loss of money that undersells that recognition. It's simply because of the system that is in place makes it seem so. Most ideas are not as great as the price tag may make them seem. Chalk that up to marketing. The ideas that are great will always make the money it deserves and that's a fact.
The biggest reasons piracy is hated is because almost all industries are trying too beat one idea with another in order to make money. This fuels competition and thus should make the best product. But that's a bold face lie. If it makes the best product for customers, and not for people. That's why medicine rarely deals with cures but instead treatment, that is why phones and computers make integral upgrades, and that's why popular music sounds so similar.
The industry instead should be set up in terms of paying those who collaborated, paying those that collaborated the greatest the most. Companies shouldn't be mad and say "Hey you stole my idea!" they should say "Wow you made our idea better, but what if we added this..." Companies would then not be competing since money would be flooding in from all sides, but instead be collaborating with themselves and even with consumers who would be your best collaborators.
If that were the way things worked, we would live in a better world simply because money would take a backseat to progress.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 17, 2012, 03:22:13 PM
Copyrights should be finite and they should expire after some reasonable amount of time. That said, I think people deserve to be able to profit from their intellectual creations, but that should end at their death. How can a dead person profit from his creations? They can't. Mickey Mouse was created almost a century ago and Walt Disney who created it has been dead for a long time. That's an example of something which should be out of copyright now, but it isn't because of the Sonny Bono copyright extension. Walt Disney deserved to be able to profit from Mickey Mouse, but he has been dead for about 45 years now so what good does it do him to still hold onto it beyond the grave?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 17, 2012, 03:39:23 PM
Copyrights are pointless. Copying is the sincerest form of flattery, so why should anyone become angry? Again, recognition will never copy over and if it does, it is vanity that compells someone to scream out "He copied my idea!" What people don't realze is just because I created it does it really make it mine? The fact that it is so loved and cherished is because of other people and not me, so why should I withold my tecnique or way of thought from my fellow human beings? Does a secret recipe taste better simply because it is secret?
I need to stop smoking this ****...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 17, 2012, 03:55:14 PM
Copyrights are pointless. Copying is the sincerest form of flattery, so why should anyone become angry?
Two reasons come to mind.
1) If someone makes something and someone else takes it and creates derivative works and those derivative works end up becoming more popular than the original then the original creator might not be credited for their creation. Someone who made the more well known derivative work would get all the accolades.
2) In addition to accolades, the derivatives might make more money. Not being able to profit off your own creation is bad, but to then have someone make a few tweaks and make that money instead is adding insult to injury.
There was a movie a few years ago based on a true story of this guy who invented automatic windshield wipers and I think GM stole that idea and he not only didn't get the money he deserved but he didn't get the credit for it either. He fought his whole entire life for it and the big auto company offered to pay him money to drop it but he didn't want the money. He just wanted the credit that this was his idea. Finally like 50 years later he got the credit he sought his whole life and was able to die in peace.
Like I said, people deserve to be credited for their creations. They should also be able to profit from them too. But once they die then I think it should go public domain.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 17, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
Sounds like a waste of a life to me. What he should have done is continued to be creative and make something else. People will steal your ideas and no amount of fighting, money or laws will ever stop that from happening.
As for accolades, being told your great is like being patted on the head like a dog. The greatest people in the world are those that never wanted to be told they were great in the first place, because they didn't need it.
Furthermore, making money from your idea is different than creating it and I wish people would learn that. Just because you make it doesn't mean you deserve money when it's sold. You need to take the inniative and sell it yourself. Now in a perfect world, people will give credit and money to those inventors, but until we fix the fundemental issue of idea beating ideas, it will never be a right afforded to people.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: King of Twitch on January 17, 2012, 04:34:27 PM
But then people would just sit around all day waiting for good ideas to copy, just like on Wii.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 17, 2012, 04:57:35 PM
Sounds like a waste of a life to me. What he should have done is continued to be creative and make something else. People will steal your ideas and no amount of fighting, money or laws will ever stop that from happening.
Maybe it was his fear that anything else he created would just get stolen anyway so what's the point? Copyright laws are supposed to protect against that. Do they work 100% like they should? No. But removing them entirely would just make it a free for all. BTW, the movie is called "Spark of Genius" if you want to watch it.
I seen the movie and the way he was screwed over pissed me off and I was glad he won in the end, even though it took him his whole life of fighting it.
You need to take the inniative and sell it yourself.
That won't work if there was no copyright laws protecting your work. Let's say you write a novel and you try to publish it yourself. I'm sure you can print some copies yourself, but not many. But as soon as some big printing monopoly manages to get one of your handful of copies they can make millions of copies out of it and you can't compete with that. Removing copyright laws allows big business to run roughshod over individuals by making it completely legal for them to take their creations and market them and exploit them in a way a lone individual could never manage to do on his own. That's not right.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 17, 2012, 05:53:47 PM
Perhaps the only way to get paid is by actually doing something worth getting paid for, like giving me a physical copy of a book, or a concert I can go to, etc.
Some industries have already made this transition. Wedding photographers used to shoot weddings for a minimal fee, then charge a large amount for prints and reprints. If you wanted extra copies of your wedding photos for your extended family, you had to pay for the extra prints.
With the advent of scanners and dirt-cheap photo printers, they've transitioned to a model where they charge a lot for shooting the wedding, but charge little for the prints or even give them away for free. Technically they can charge for the prints as they did before, but realistically they know it's so easy to make copies there's no possible way they'd be able to enforce their copyright for every photo the take. So they've just restructured their payment system to reflect reality, rather than copyright laws.
Forget for a moment everything about copyright, publishing, movie/music production, etc. Think of this purely in terms of work vs. compensation. I shoot photos of a wedding and process the photos. That's a lot of work. I print pictures of said wedding. That's very little work. Under the old model, the payment system did not reflect my costs - I charged very little for the part which required a lot of work on my part, but charged a lot for the part which required almost no effort. The new system fixes this. I now charge a lot for the part which requires a lot of work, and charge little for the part which requires little work.
The same thing has got to happen to books, music, and movies. In the old days, musicians and actors were paid for live performances. That is the norm.
In the 20th century there was a bit less than 100 years where technology was good enough to allow mass duplication, but not good enough to lower cost of duplication to the point where individuals could duplicate. This allowed a business model to flourish in which payment did not reflect costs. Musicians and actors were able to work once, then sit back and make money over and over based on that single performance. This is not normal. No other business is like that - you have to constantly work if you want to keep making money.
Now in the 21st century, the cost of mass duplication has fallen far enough that it's now easily within grasp of the individual. No longer does it make sense for people to be charged large amounts of money for what is a nearly free service (duplication). People may be stuck on the morality of it because the 20th century way is all they've ever known. But strictly in terms of work invested vs. compensation, the 20th century way was clearly wrong since the most money was being made for the step which cost the least money.
The transition to a model where content creators are not paid for duplication services is not some new journey into unexplored territory. It is a return to what was the norm for millenia. For most of history, duplication was impossible (performances) or nearly impossible (books), so the only way to get paid was for the actual content creation. During the 20th century, duplication became possible, and content creators leveraged it to get paid multiple times over for the same work. Now in the 21st century duplication has become so cheap that people are starting to question if it's really fair for content creators to be paid multiple times for the same job. That is the true crux of the matter, not who owns the work or whether copying is stealing.
I do believe in copyright - the temporary monopoly does encourage creation. But the terms have to be reasonable. With duplication costs having dropped to almost zero, preventing society from making copies simply because of archaic laws does more harm than good. Something like 10-20 years for copyright seems about right to me. Copyright is fundamentally about encouraging creativity and creation of new content. A copyright term of life + 70 years discourages creativity, and instead encourages trying to figure out how to create something new once and live off it for the rest of your life.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 17, 2012, 06:11:08 PM
This thread is full of lengthy replies! But, if I may just chime in on copyrights, the purpose of copyrights is to allow people to make a creative idea and profit from it exclusively without the fear of it being stolen. If you're successful in doing this, you'll probably live off of the idea, so it lasts your whole life. BUT if you die, your family was probably pretty used to living off the money, so it lasts for some considerable time after you die. The problem comes in when corporations hold copyrights. Corporations are supposed to have some of the same rights that people have, but then there's the problem of a going concern: they are intended to last forever. If a company makes a business around an idea and is continuing to thrive off of the idea, then having that idea go in to the public domain kinda fucks that **** up. Say what you want about Disney and all the **** they own, but if Mickey Mouse, Winnie the Pooh and other perennial franchises which now include Marvel properties fell in to public domain, even they would be hurt significantly.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 17, 2012, 06:42:21 PM
Wedding photographers used to shoot weddings for a minimal fee,
Is that the story behind your avatar? :P
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 17, 2012, 06:53:06 PM
It was a shotgun wedding. She was about to have puppies, and was totally enthralled by my mullet.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 17, 2012, 11:26:05 PM
This thread is getting derailed pretty badly (I think) but Morari has made some excellent points (and several other users without any initials...). Anyway, Wikipedia is not the only site that would be affected. The internet as a whole would lose much of its appeal. Hell, nintendoworldreport.com would probably get shut down because if SOPA. We could all be considered criminals for discussingmovies and video games and using the names of copyrighted characters, etc. Your CM punk avatar could get the whole site taken down.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 17, 2012, 11:38:04 PM
Talking about copyrighted stuff is not illegal. The avatars fall under fair use. NWR would be safe.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 18, 2012, 12:50:20 AM
Talking about copyrighted stuff is not illegal. The avatars fall under fair use. NWR would be safe.
No site would ever be safe because under SOPA they can be shut down based on an accusation alone. Whether a site is actually guilty or not doesn't matter, because it would be shut down with no questions asked. What part of that don't you understand?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 18, 2012, 05:12:51 AM
Fair use (http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/packet/200810/copyright-owners-must-consider-fair-use-doctrine-when-issuing-dmca-tak) is no deterrent from take down notice being sent and acted upon. Unless you're willing to go to court and bear the expenses, a takedown would stand if acted upon.
It has already been shown that companies already abuse DMCA. Giving them more power would only cause more widespread and more damaging abuses of law. SOPA and PIPA is Legal Grey Goo as the internet to connected to everything by design. Even back in 2000 linking (http://www.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/06/cyber/cyberlaw/16law.html) could have been considered illegal and a breach of copyright. The sponsors of bills like this other others have shown themselves time and again morally and intellectually bankrupt willing to destroy the greater good to make a quick buck.
Quote
Google notes that more than half (57%) of the takedown notices it has received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act 1998, were sent by business targeting competitors and over one third (37%) of notices were not valid copyright claims. (http://pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/pcw.nsf/feature/93FEDCEF6636CF90CC25757A0072B4B7)
It's not valid though. Unless your site is illegally hosting content, you have nothing to be worried about.
Put up, or shut up (http://underdevelopmentlaw.com/update-sopas-managers-amendment-and-digital-distribution/). We have only your assertions that we have nothing to worry about. A just world fallacy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis) if I ever saw one. There are places that do argue for SOPA/PIPA and like hell I would help you look for them. Do you own damn homework. They run the flimsiest of justifications as to why SOPA/PIPA wouldn't breach the first amendment ignoring real world precedent and making the assumption abuses never happen. That is assuming places like it isn't a sock puppet blog or site.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 18, 2012, 08:46:40 AM
I love Google's logo today, signed the petition on there and xda-developers.com so far...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 18, 2012, 04:51:25 PM
I'm on Twitter,youtube,and the like and I am liking SOPA videos on youtube as well as faving them on my channel. Also retweeting any videos I have come across. Gonna start contacting my reps and signing petitions soon.
For those that want to contact their Representatives just go to Wikipedia and enter your zip code and they will give you contact info so you can talk to your Representatives.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: SonofMrPeanut on January 18, 2012, 10:13:54 PM
In case some of you weren't already aware, the ESA (Electronic Software Association) supports SOPA and PIPA. They are currently considered the face of the video game industry in the government. Since the ESA runs E3, this has given way to a protest movement: People and Outlets refusing to cover E3 until the ESA changes their stance on SOPA and PIPA.
Watch the video below and sign the petition in the description.
I encourage everyone to get on Nintendo World Report about this, since they are a major force in the Nintendo community.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 18, 2012, 10:26:28 PM
LOL, that is a bad idea. First, I want coverage of E3 so I would not support anything that interrupts it. Second, the mainstream press will still cover it. Third, I don't see you doing something like refusing to watch any movies (for example) since the MPAA supports it.
And since E3 is not until June, it's very likely that the bills will either be signed or not by then. President Obama has already said he does not support them, so he would most likely veto them (though I think both bills have a veto proof majority so far).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 18, 2012, 10:29:15 PM
That would be the best thing ever, if say, someone like Microsoft or Nintendo had the balls to pull out of E3 to show that they actually care about their consumers.
And the MPAA does *not* support you "watching movies" they support you buying movies.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 18, 2012, 10:36:37 PM
See here's the thing TJ the news will still be out there after E3 is over.There isn't anybody stopping you from getting the info yourself. Also if I am not mistaken E3 is in June this year so if the ESA pulls support for SOPA then it is a win win for all parties. The SOPA supporters will have another company against SOPA and the gamers will have their news. You said it yourself there will likely be someway of getting the news so whats the point in not supporting this idea?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 18, 2012, 10:39:32 PM
I assumed people would get that is what I meant.
Also, the NFL supports it. Why don't you try and get media to not cover the Super Bowl? LOL
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 18, 2012, 11:13:02 PM
I couldn't support boycotting E3. If EVERY major videogame news outlet got involved I wouldn't be able to get the damn info. Now, if Sony, MS and Nintendo all had the balls to pull out, then I just simply wouldn't get an E3. And Congress (and this is key) STILL WOULDN'T GIVE A ****! They're not gamers. They're not us. If they were us, this would not be a thing.
Random webcomics going dark today helps because they all say "sign this petition" or "here's a link to help you write your congressman." No E3 only hurts us in the short term with no real long term benefit.
BTW, I wrote my congress people today.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 18, 2012, 11:32:40 PM
You seem to be the only one who finds this whole thing amusing. This means either you are a sicko who finds humor in other people's misfortune or you are a troll like Morari said earlier. Which one is it? Or is it both?
You don't really support this stuff, do you TJ? You are just trolling, right?
Quote from: TJ Spyke
I would not support anything that interrupts it
Under those conditions it wouldn't be sincere support anyway, so no big loss IMHO.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 18, 2012, 11:45:02 PM
I just find the idea of websites deciding not to cover E3 to by funny since it would never happen. And what misfortune?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 18, 2012, 11:47:57 PM
Talking about copyrighted stuff is not illegal. The avatars fall under fair use. NWR would be safe.
I'm curious, how, exactly, does an avatar count as fair use? It's not for news or critiquing. It's not for educational purposes. It doesn't really seem to fall under any of the typical "Fair Use" exemptions...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: broodwars on January 19, 2012, 12:02:05 AM
This supposed boycott on E3 will never be successful because no site that statistically matters when it comes video game news coverage will sign on. You didn't see IGN, NintendoWorldReport, Gamespot, 1up, etc. blacked-out today to join the irritating "SOPA Blackout Day" protest. And you won't see them boycotting their largest event for readership to protest a bill that will not be signed into law.
That's right, I said it won't become law. Obama (in one of the few moves of his I agree with) has given a statement saying he will veto the bill if it passes congress, and I don't think SOPA has the votes to override a presidential veto. Game Over.
I definitely side with all the websites and people denouncing SOPA because it is a terrible bill with horrible longterm repercussions, but enough is enough. The entire internet has been whining about this bill for months, and I'm sick of hearing and reading about it. Until we see a revised bill with a better chance of passing congress and getting the President's signature, the day is won.
Everyone should still keep an eye on the bill, but enough with all the self-righteous posturing all over the internet. Somewhere down the line, something is going to have to be done about online piracy because it is damaging to IP viability, but this is not the bill to do it. All the people complaining about SOPA should turn their attention to what they're willing to give up to keep the internet as open as possible, because the internet won't remain like it is forever. Whether you agree or disagree with that, I think we're going to be facing a Kobiyashi Maru scenario: remain against any changes and watch more bills like SOPA be attempted until finally one of them passes, or prepare to give some concessions to keep the internet as open as possible for as long as possible. We've seen this before with the creation of the ESRB, and is anyone really going to argue that we're worse off for that, especially considering the alternative under a governmental censorship system like Australia or Germany?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 19, 2012, 12:26:17 AM
Broodwars, hopefully Obama will veto it, but just because he said he would doesn't necessarily mean he will. Politicians say a lot of things during an election year, and not all of it ends up being carried out. 2012 is a presidential election year so that's why he would say something like that. I hope he does mean it, but I won't count on that as a given.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 19, 2012, 12:39:45 AM
Broodwars...I think people are just afraid of what could happen if these Bills pass and are just doing what they can to try to stop it from happening by any means. Few things I want to bring up though. The gaming media has behind this whole SOPA and PIPA thing since it was first announced so I am not really surprised to see most of them not particapating in what was happening today. I actually found about this bill on youtube from the Let's play community.Not from any of the big gaming sites. Yeah mull that around a bit.
I just feel that the entire internet won't back down until it is dead and gone for good. These Bills can affect a lot of peoples livelihoods and they are fighting for that amoung other things to protect that. This past year or so has been very protest heavy and it has started a movement that I am not sure when it is going to end.
There was also another bill a few years back that passed the President said wouldn't pass but it did. The DMCA I believe it was.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 12:46:10 AM
All the DMCA did was put into US law 2 different international treaties that had been passed 2 years earlier. The DMCA would have been passed even if President Clinton vetoed it since it was passed unanimously in both chambers of Congress (so they could have over-rode the veto).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 19, 2012, 09:57:46 PM
So, Anonymous shut down the Department of Justice, MPAA, and RIAA websites today, because they took down megaupload.com and arrested 7 people that ran it. Pretty ironic when you think about it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 10:21:30 PM
Megaupload was one of the biggest sites of illegal content, so they were right to be shut down. Anonymous proves once again that they are cowards and criminals. This is like police shutting down a piracy ring, and then a group attacking them from the shadows. This is no different than a torrent site getting taken down.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 19, 2012, 10:29:00 PM
No, it's like the RIAA and MPAA shutting down website whenever they want to. It's very different than a torrent site getting taken down, since torrent don't actually host anything.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 10:38:35 PM
You are right, in this case Megaupload is very clearly breaking the law since they are hosting the content themselves (though torrent sites are not exactly squeaky clean). I am not a big fan of the site anyways (the 72 minute time limit), so I am not said to see it taken down.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on January 19, 2012, 10:42:05 PM
God, why do the US have to ruin everything.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 10:45:34 PM
You are right, why shouldn't a site be allowed to illegally host thousands of movies and TV shows?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on January 19, 2012, 11:11:34 PM
Dude, sharing is caring. Didn't anyone share with you as a child?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 11:14:52 PM
Of course, though only stuff the legally owned.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 19, 2012, 11:20:37 PM
How were they able to shut the site down when SOPA hasn't even passed yet?
In any case, this is a small sampling of what will occur under the Dystopian future which TJ Spyke is cheerfully ushering in.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on January 19, 2012, 11:25:30 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 19, 2012, 11:27:02 PM
The same way sites like The Pirate Bay and Napster were shut down (though both later came back). The site knowingly hosted illegal content, which is against the law. Apparently there was a 2 year investigation into the site.
Dystopian future? Because I don't support site stealing content that doesn't belong to them and then profiting from it? I think that is why the executives were arrested, because they were providing pirated material and making money from it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on January 19, 2012, 11:30:19 PM
Yeah, I don't think MegaUpload is coming back.... (http://109.236.83.66/)
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 19, 2012, 11:31:00 PM
Apparently there was a 2 year investigation into the site.
So why do we need SOPA then? If Megaupload was a problem, the problem was investigated and dealt with under existing legislation.
The only thing SOPA does is now instead of investigating if piracy is actually being committed the site just gets instantly shut down even if it is completely innocent. I guess waiting for due process isn't good enough for the likes of the RIAA, MPAA, etc. They want instant results, even before guilt has been proven.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 20, 2012, 01:15:40 AM
Napster never came back. The name maybe.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 20, 2012, 06:11:32 AM
You are right, why shouldn't a site be allowed to illegally host thousands of movies and TV shows?
Lots of copyrighted material illegally posted on YouTube as well; do you support the government shutting it down entirely in response to that? There are plenty of legitimate uses for sites like MegaUpload. I've used it in the past to transfer my audio recordings for NWR podcasts so they could be edited. It can be used for illegal purposes, but so can most everything else.
The way the system is supposed to work, as with YouTube, is that when the content owners spot material on there that infringes on copyright, they file a DMCA request and it gets taken down. Just because they're too lazy to follow the rules as they're set up doesn't mean they should be allowed to shut down entire sites they don't like.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 20, 2012, 09:59:44 AM
I say we keep pushing the envelope. Best Buy should be shut down since they sell DVD-R discs, which can be used for piracy - they have no control over what their consumers do with the product that they provide, but hey, tough ****. Wal-Mart should be shut down since they sell wireless routers - which give people access to the internet, which they use to upload and download illegal content - sure, it's not their fault that people "abuse" the products and services provided by them, but again, tough ****.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 20, 2012, 10:23:52 AM
That's a bit of a reach. Selling DVRs or Routers isn't illegal.
Distributing copyrighted material without permission is.
Megaupload was doing exactly that. To what extent they knew about it is, of course, debatable.
If I own a hotel and allow a couple of guys to run a meth lab out of one of the rooms, I could find myself in jail. If I own a hotel and a couple of guys run a meth lab out of one of the rooms and I don't know about it, then I might get a free pass.
How much did Megaupload know about their network traffic and what did they do to prevent THEIR PROPERTY (i.e. servers) from hosting illegal materials?
If I'm delivering a package for someone and it has cocaine or child porn in it, how far is the "Well, I didn't know" defense going to get me?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Plugabugz on January 20, 2012, 10:42:11 AM
I say we keep pushing the envelope. Best Buy should be shut down since they sell DVD-R discs, which can be used for piracy - they have no control over what their consumers do with the product that they provide, but hey, tough ****. Wal-Mart should be shut down since they sell wireless routers - which give people access to the internet, which they use to upload and download illegal content - sure, it's not their fault that people "abuse" the products and services provided by them, but again, tough ****.
We should ban cars, for they allow stolen property to be transported.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 20, 2012, 11:01:39 AM
Megaupload was doing exactly that. To what extent they knew about it is, of course, debatable.
Hosting? Sure. Providing? Nope.
It doesn't matter to what extent their knowledge ran. Megaupload allowed anyone to upload anything. It's not Megaupload's job to police what is or isn't uploaded. Of course, the copyright cartel doesn't quite seem to care about that little Safe Harbor clause sitting around on the books.
Megaupload seems like an odd one to go after anyway. I don't know anyone who really used it for much. The file and time limits were pretty discouraging for the typical users, let alone the hardcore pirate. Wouldn't you rather your tax dollars go toward solving actual problems?
Anonymous once again proves themselves to be modern heroes. Injustice must be fought on all fronts. Bringing attention to it is just the first step. I can't wait for them to go after the NDAA next month.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 20, 2012, 11:50:54 AM
I think that is why the executives were arrested, because they were providing pirated material and making money from it.
As opposed to someone who hacked their PSP for purely nonprofit reasons? Does that make it okay? Under SOPA and all those bullshit laws you are a criminal, and you may well find yourself hanging by your own noose. When that happens I hope you will see the irony in it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 20, 2012, 12:03:18 PM
I used Megaupload a lot, sometimes even for non-piracy. I'm also rather enjoying the backlash from anonymous. I feel like they're actually representing my interests, as opposed to certain members of congress.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 20, 2012, 01:20:25 PM
Megaupload was doing exactly that. To what extent they knew about it is, of course, debatable.
Hosting? Sure. Providing? Nope.
Distributing? Yes.
Which is what's illegal.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 20, 2012, 03:55:52 PM
Quote
Despite what Forbes contributor John Gaudiosi and many others said, SOPA was alive all week, even after President Obama came out against it and scores of senators fled in the wake of the internet blackout. That is no longer the case. After massive protests and amidst rapidly declining support, both SOPA and PIPA have been shelved indefinitely.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 20, 2012, 04:32:02 PM
http://kotaku.com/5877996/esa-drops-sopa-support
LOL, little late there guys. Better late than never, I guess?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 20, 2012, 04:41:48 PM
Its easy to drop support of something which is dead.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 20, 2012, 04:42:19 PM
It's not really dead though. Shelved means they can just come back to it later. They'll probably revise the language beforehand though, so this is a good victory.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 20, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
If only TJ was there to convince them to stay on board, to tell them how great it was!
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 20, 2012, 11:28:02 PM
I don't how anyone running megaupload couldn't how that site was mainly used for piracy. It's hard to turn a blind eye to what the majority of your users do. That'd be like NWR saying, "We didn't know people come on forums and post about Zelda."
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 21, 2012, 12:08:23 AM
If this is true, would anyone here still come out in the defense of MegaUpload?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 21, 2012, 12:47:01 AM
Things against Megaupload (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/00373617487/megaupload-details-raise-significant-concerns-about-what-doj-considers-evidence-criminal-behavior.shtml) may not be as cut and dry as one might think. The short version the prosecution may have issues proving intent and some of their evidence are questionable catch 22 along with significant technical misunderstandings. From a pure copyright violation stand point, it's shaky and can set some nasty precedents since it's attacking some very key technical concepts. Also ICE and DOJ have a very poor record (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/13052817473/doj-gives-its-opinion-sopa-unilaterally-shutting-down-foreign-rogue-site-megaupload-without-sopapipa.shtml) on dealing with the net.
Unfortunately the authors expertise doesn't extent to the other charges which is more likely to stick.
If you have nothing productive to say TJ, shut the hell up. Not once have you ever posted something that supports your position other than "I said so".
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 21, 2012, 12:54:38 AM
Promoting stolen copyrighted material is wrong, but if they aren't liable for what's uploaded and there is no record of money going to those who upload copyrighted material, then they really have no case. The worse they can do is try and go after the money. But that might be the most legitimate part of it considering it is a subscription based model.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2012, 02:16:54 AM
If this is true, would anyone here still come out in the defense of MegaUpload?
If they were in on it like that stuff says then no, I won't defend them. That doesn't change the fact that SOPA is bullshit, however.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 21, 2012, 05:28:52 AM
They ran a service that let people upload whatever they wanted. I'm sure they were aware that it was used for piracy, but what were they supposed to do about it? Should they have scanned all the files people uploaded to see if they infringed on copyrights? They complied with DMCA takedown notices when they got them, which is all they're legally required to do.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 21, 2012, 09:00:49 AM
Yeah, but according to UB's link, they rewarded some people for uploading movies and such, and even used their own service to download shows and movies...although technically didn't they own everything that got uploaded?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2012, 10:51:46 AM
They ran a service that let people upload whatever they wanted. I'm sure they were aware that it was used for piracy, but what were they supposed to do about it? Should they have scanned all the files people uploaded to see if they infringed on copyrights? They complied with DMCA takedown notices when they got them, which is all they're legally required to do.
From Uncle Bob's link:
Quote
Other emails show how executives discussed cash rewards for uploaders who had provided specific DVDs and other copyrighted works.
Quote
Further emails show how some of the executives scoured their own service to download copies of The Sopranos and various music albums.
Quote
The indictment even includes chat logs with conversations between company executives, which include statements like: “we have a funny business . . . modern days pirates :)”
Quote
Some of the emails show that MegaUpload had an interesting policy on when to follow take-down requests. When asked by Warner to take down files, the site’s CTO wrote in an internal email: “We should comply with their request — we can afford to be cooperative at current growth levels.”
If all that is true, it is pretty damning. It seems like they not only knew about the piracy but even encouraged it with cash rewards, and made use of it themselves by scouring their site for Sopranos and stuff. So they are equally guilty of the copyright infringement as the uploaders of it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 21, 2012, 11:09:59 AM
I didn't see that. Yeah, that does change things if it's true.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 21, 2012, 12:38:21 PM
The timing of this raid was pretty weird with SOPA and all that protesting against it going on. I wonder if it was just a coincidence, or if the powers that be decided to do the raid at that time for some reason? They were investigating them for 2 years, but only acted now with SOPA in the news? Could be just a coincidence, but I don't know.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 21, 2012, 01:42:21 PM
Probably just a coincidence. I can't really see any benefit to waiting until all the SOPA/PIPA hoopla to push this case forward. Sitting on evidence like that costs time and money, which could end up hurting the case in the long run. And a 2 year investigation isn't that long of a time to gather evidence. You gotta have a strong case to begin with or you could lose the culprit forever.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 22, 2012, 01:12:58 AM
SOPA's not dead yet (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39775/SOPAs_not_dead_yet_the_6_things_every_game_developer_needs_to_know.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GamasutraNews+%28Gamasutra+News%29): the 6 things every game developer needs to know. Mona Ibrahim has once again provided some excellent brain food with her legal expertise. Link contain what the label on the can says.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 24, 2012, 03:47:49 AM
In related news, the MPAA has publicly threatened politicians (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/14472117492/mpaa-directly-publicly-threatens-politicians-who-arent-corrupt-enough-to-stay-bought.shtml) for not staying brought.
Chris Dodd and the MPAA/RIAA can go suck on a log with their collective ass. His failure is now complete (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120119/21092917484/why-chris-dodd-failed-with-his-sopapipa-strategy.shtml).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2012, 12:15:58 PM
In related news, the MPAA has publicly threatened politicians (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120120/14472117492/mpaa-directly-publicly-threatens-politicians-who-arent-corrupt-enough-to-stay-bought.shtml) for not staying brought.
I don't want to get into a political discussion on here, but is it surprising that someone would come out and say "Hey, if you don't support my positions, I'm not going to support your campaign."?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 24, 2012, 02:02:16 PM
You have to understand in any other democracy, the everyday behavior exhibited in Washington would be considered bribery, blackmail, incompetence and corruption. Sure it happens here too from time to time, but it's illegal and it isn't a everyday process. People start going to jail (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/4592600/Disgraced-MP-Field-appeals-again) or get kicked (http://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/5945715/Disgraced-MP-in-family-feud) out of parliament (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4343008/Wong-gutted-after-leaving-cabinet-post) and things get investigated (http://www.topnews.in/disgraced-new-zealand-politician-quits-parliament-2176950).
Throw in the description of how government works in the US found in the NWR Podcast Star Wars Porn, it's insane the US should ever pass any laws since the whole thing is a marketing exercise. I have seen the some of the debates that go on in committees and it's mind blowing how completely ignorant the people talking about the issues are. They don't brief themselves in anyway, waffle on with irrelevant anecdotes, positions are given with no regard to expertise or even as an interest as a hobby, people talking in circles of cover your ass speak. I don't expect them to be an expert at everything they do or read every bill in it's entirety, but it's like watching a room full of brain damaged mouth breathers a lot of the time. It's a miracle anything gets done, good or bad.
It is surprising as this doesn't happen anywhere else that considers itself and is democratic. There would be rioting in the streets. It surprising as this mind set has been slow boiled into the system slowly and for so long that it's considered normal and legalised.
So to answer your question, yes, it's surprising.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Ceric on January 24, 2012, 02:07:38 PM
There was rioting in the street. Its just soooo Diffused and removed from where the people who actually have the power are its like a fart in a Stadium and its chances to effect the whole Stadium.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2012, 02:18:26 PM
I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with a lot of what you're saying - but you're really surprised that people would come out and say "I'm not going to support politicians who don't have the same political beliefs I do."? Or do you feel that everyone should be forced to support every candidate equally, regardless of their individual sets of beliefs?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2012, 02:26:38 PM
Um, what is the news here? For decades, companies (and people) have based their decision to make contributions based on whether the candidate supports or opposes certain things. This happens in other countries too, pretty much any country where politicians get elected. It should not be surprising that the MPAA will not support candidates who who don't try and stop online piracy.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 24, 2012, 02:28:38 PM
The U.S. Congress: You will never find a more retched hive of scum and villainy.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 02:56:25 PM
It takes on a bit of a different tone when the company threatening to stop giving them money is the same one that wrote the bill and really the only one still pushing it. It implies that they were giving the legislators money specifically so they would pass a horrible bill that they put together that only benefits them. Not technically illegal, but incredibly sleazy.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2012, 03:28:38 PM
There are plenty of people who cast their support and votes based on a singular issue (not going to mention them, as we're already borderline political talk here).
If Jane Doe puts together a petition to save the purple bellied fleas and threatens to boycott any politicians that don't support her efforts, no one would blink an eye.
In this case, these people (who work for/represent various media companies) are saying *THIS* is the issue most important to us. If you don't support it, we won't support you.
Of course these various media companies wrote the framework for the legislation and are pushing it. It's something that virtually only effects and interests them. I don't see anyone on this forum working to write up legislation to help lower piracy rates.
And, again, I'm against SOPA - it's bad legislation. But I also see no issue with individuals or groups of individuals determining which political issues are important to them and supporting candidates that have a similar political agenda/outlook.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 24, 2012, 03:32:54 PM
If Jane Doe puts together a petition to save the purple bellied fleas and threatens to boycott any politicians that don't support her efforts, no one would blink an eye.
No one would care because that would be an environmental issue and it is obvious no one cares about the environment because everyone continues to burn up fossil fuels and waste electricity as usual, even though the temperature right now in what is supposed to be winter is far warmer than usual. The ice caps are melting and the polar bears will become extinct, but no one cares.
Someone pirating a few mp3s or video games on the internet? That's what people care about. Congressmen will get off their fat lazy asses to do something about that, but not the stuff that effects common people or the planet as a whole.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2012, 03:48:56 PM
If Jane Doe was throwing boatloads of cash at those who supported her movement to preserve the purple-bellied flea, you'd best believe there would be a boatload of elected officials moving in to support the movement.
As for the last part of your comment, let's be grown adults and be honest - this isn't about "Someone pirating a few things..." It's about a large segment of the population pirating massive quantities of copyrighted material. Your attempts to trivialize it only show how little you really understand the situation.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 03:52:31 PM
Let's be honest here. The only reason SOPA and PIPA got as far as they did was because of how much money those industries contributed to the politicians. Neither side is making any attempt to hide that. That's what people have a problem with here. I'm not arguing they don't have the right to do what they're doing, because they certainly do, but you have to see how sleazy it comes off. This kind of thing is exactly why we need to get all private money out of politics.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 24, 2012, 04:00:33 PM
Let's be honest here. The only reason SOPA and PIPA got as far as they did was because of how much money those industries contributed to the politicians.
A) Of course - no one else is going to be working with politicians to slow down/stop piracy. B) I think it says more about our political system that it takes boatloads of campaign cash to get politicians to consider one's issue.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 04:25:03 PM
No argument on the second point, which is why I said what I said in my last sentence. I suppose it's the same argument people make defending the Yankees in baseball: you can't really blame them for taking advantage of the way the current system works. We need to change the political system (and institute a salary cap in Major League Baseball).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 24, 2012, 05:27:15 PM
Your attempts to trivialize it only show how little you really understand the situation.
I understand the RIAA/MPAA likes to sue people for millions of dollars and bankrupt them for the rest of their lives. Isn't it like $200,000 per song or something like that? If you steal a CD from a store the consequences are far less severe than stealing that album online. I agree both are stealing and should be illegal, but the punishment is far in excess of the crime. Especially when you hear stories of elderly people who don't even have a computer being sued, or people who died years ago are being sued. That just goes to show that they don't even know who is really guilty when they send out these lawsuits.
So no its not a trivial thing at all if you are the recipient of one of these lawsuits. Your life is forever ruined and your quality of living is forever lowered because you will never live long enough or make enough money to ever be able to pay back the huge fines, unless you are lucky and hit the lottery or something like that.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 05:31:28 PM
Also, the piracy, despite how much of it there is, may, in fact, be trivial. There's really no way to know how much of an impact it has on the movie, music and gaming industry.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: bustin98 on January 24, 2012, 05:38:06 PM
It's not the stealing they are concerned so much about, but rather the distributing. When you become a torrent seed, you are a source of a file. And if you have a million MP3s sitting on your hard drive, you have the potential to distribute a million songs to millions of fellow torrent users.
They way companies go after people is wrong because all anyone is is an IP address. So if someone spoofs your address suddenly you could find yourself on the wrong end of a search warrant.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 24, 2012, 05:49:30 PM
I think the RIAA/MPAA is happy piracy exists because they probably make more money off suing thousands of people for millions of dollars each than they make off the actual album sales. That is their business model. The claim they are victims of piracy, but really the fines from that piracy is making them very rich.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on January 24, 2012, 06:12:59 PM
itt: moderators breaking forum rules and discussing politics.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: bustin98 on January 24, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Until Vudu shows up...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 10:23:09 PM
As for the last part of your comment, let's be grown adults and be honest - this isn't about "Someone pirating a few things..." It's about a large segment of the population pirating massive quantities of copyrighted material. Your attempts to trivialize it only show how little you really understand the situation.
Shouldn't the government be looking into supporting this large segment of the population, then? If a majority of the population partake in an activity, exactly when does it cease to be criminal? Isn't that how democracy is supposed to work? Instead they're acting as a dying industry's personal security force.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2012, 10:34:20 PM
"large" is not the same as "majority". Also, this country has never been a democracy, it's always been a republic. The problem with democracy is that sometimes the people don't always want what is right. The government had to act themselves to do stuff like enacting civil rights laws in states where most people opposed them.
Plus, even if a majority of people did pirate stuff, that is still not a reason to legalize it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 24, 2012, 11:06:40 PM
The government had to act themselves to do stuff like enacting civil rights laws in states where most people opposed them.
Yet it was also the government which enacted the Jim Crow laws in the first place. Whether a government action ends up being "good" or not depends entirely on who is controlling the government, because they are the ones who steer it and get it to pass various laws and whatnot. That said, I don't think the MPAA/RIAA should be holding the reins of government. The honest truth of the matter is they only care about their own interests, and would not care if a law they supported trampled the crap out of civil liberties in the process.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2012, 11:13:19 PM
State governments enacted Jim Crow laws. The federal government had to fix that. That was my point, there are plenty of times a state wants to do something discriminatory, and the federal government had to fix it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 11:18:13 PM
Hey, no discussing non-SOPA politics in this thread unless you have mod powers.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 24, 2012, 11:35:18 PM
Speaking of SOPA, the ESA announced they were dropping their support of it the other day.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2012, 11:41:31 PM
That's a pretty bold move.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2012, 12:42:53 AM
I think the RIAA/MPAA is happy piracy exists because they probably make more money off suing thousands of people for millions of dollars each than they make off the actual album sales. That is their business model. The claim they are victims of piracy, but really the fines from that piracy is making them very rich.
This is completely ridiculous. Do you actually have any stats on how many of these lawsuits have A) Made it to court, B) Been found in favor of the record company, and C) How many of those winning lawsuits actually had defendants who paid out?
As for the last part of your comment, let's be grown adults and be honest - this isn't about "Someone pirating a few things..." It's about a large segment of the population pirating massive quantities of copyrighted material. Your attempts to trivialize it only show how little you really understand the situation.
Quote
Shouldn't the government be looking into supporting this large segment of the population, then?
Perhaps - but remember one of the basic tenants of our government - "Majority rules with minority rights." - meaning the majority of people can't trample on the rights of the minority.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: broodwars on January 25, 2012, 12:49:57 AM
I think the RIAA/MPAA is happy piracy exists because they probably make more money off suing thousands of people for millions of dollars each than they make off the actual album sales. That is their business model. The claim they are victims of piracy, but really the fines from that piracy is making them very rich.
This is completely ridiculous. Do you actually have any stats on how many of these lawsuits have A) Made it to court, B) Been found in favor of the record company, and C) How many of those winning lawsuits actually had defendants who paid out?
Don't forget as well all the money paid to the lawyers in these lawsuits, because companies LOVE paying lawyers so much they just can't wait to hand out lawsuits for protracted multi-year legal battles with people very unlikely to actually pay up.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 25, 2012, 01:56:32 AM
The campaign has been supplemented with the creation of a new website, http://www.P2Plawsuits.com (http://www.P2Plawsuits.com). At the website, those receiving pre-litigation letters can simply settle their cases by paying the settlement with a credit card, without any aspect of the case ever entering the legal system. This in turn saves the recording industry the substantial costs of actually having to file and pursue a "John Doe" suit. The "reduced" settlement amount, in other words, represents the record companies’ savings from cutting out the middleman—our justice system. At the same time, the costs saved by the RIAA in not filing an actual suit can then be applied towards targeting more students with pre-litigation letters.
So you see, they can avoid the costly and lengthy legal process by coercing their victims into paying for a "discount settlement" with their credit cards through this website. Its a racket.
Is a song really worth $100,000? No one would argue someone who steals a pack of bubblegum should be fined $100,000. You can buy an mp3 for about a $1 which is about the same as a pack of gum, but stealing a pack of gum is treated like a trivial offense but if you steal a song then you are a felon and end up bankrupted for life. As I said earlier, the punishment is far in excess of the actual crime and the RIAA/MPAA is profiting greatly from these settlements.
If they are really just doing this to stop piracy then why do they have a website demanding money from people by credit card? If this was really about principle I would expect them to go about this differently. This is a source of revenue, and they don't want it to go away. The truth is they are perfectly happy with piracy existing, in the same way that a weapons manufacturer is happy with war, because they profit from it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2012, 02:08:23 AM
Do you have any concrete numbers regarding how many people have actually paid using this website?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 25, 2012, 02:11:58 AM
No, I don't. It may be on Google, but I suspect its something only the RIAA knows and probably wouldn't want anyone else to know.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: broodwars on January 25, 2012, 02:12:15 AM
Is a song really worth $100,000? No one would argue someone who steals a pack of bubblegum should be fined $100,000. You can buy an mp3 for about a $1 which is about the same as a pack of gum, but stealing a pack of gum is treated like a trivial offense but if you steal a song then you are a felon and end up bankrupted for life.
The problem with your analogy is that I can't take your pack of bubblegum and then give it to 10,000 other people (who are then also not buying the gum) with exactly the same quality and amount as the pack I would have originally stolen (which still keeping my gum). You can make the argument as to whether people who merely download the file deserve the same punishment as those that host or seed the file on the internet, but your physical argument is flawed.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 25, 2012, 02:29:00 AM
The problem I have with his statement is that he has implied there was a quid quo pro transaction which is Bribery in any other country, the kind where people go to jail for. The legal loop holes make it technically legal, but it still bribery by another name. Dodd's statement is literally "We made you, you owe us and we can unmake you". Classic villain talk.
This problem is much bigger than simple piracy. In a city you can't take a simple photo without catching something in the picture that is under copyright. Maybe it's a logo, a TV, an ad, some building design or a name. You put your photo up on the net. Without fair use which Hollywood very happily attacks, the things in the background is copyright infringement. You are using their intellectual property without their expressed permission correct? Piracy is just one form of copyright infringement.
SOPA and PIPA was never about piracy or copyright infringement. The exercise was to break the internet so that the channels of distribution reverts back to them. Imagine if the internet was only a couple thousand sites wide, all controlled by a handful of companies, the internet wouldn't be anything more than cable TV with 500 channels. Currently no one owns the internet and this is a very good thing. I hoppe this remains this way forever.
What the MPAA and RIAA did with these bills is the equivalent of Thomas Edison electrocuting an elephant (http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/01/dayintech_0104). Looking back now you think hahah, very funny, how silly of Thomas. But if you read the article the entire point of the exercise was to discredit alternating current so he can continue selling electricity under his old system which he controlled. Thomas Edison, the "Great inventor (http://techrights.org/2010/09/03/patent-office-icon-shamed/)" was trying to stop progress because he didn't own it.
As for TJ's ridiculous assertion that the US is a republic, wrong, the US is a representative democracy if it could be considered that now. Edmund Burke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Democracy)
Quote
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion
It really doesn't matter exactly what kind democratic governement the US is under as long as it's one person, one vote and his expert opinion is judged on his evidence, not by the weight of his purse. The US government as it functions is now backwards for all intents and purposes to it founding.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: broodwars on January 25, 2012, 02:35:19 AM
As for TJ's ridiculous assertion that the US is a republic, wrong, the US is a representative democracy if it could be considered that now.
Actually, you're both right to some extent. The U.S. is a Constitutional Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_republic), which practices Representative Democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy) in choosing its leaders.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: MegaByte on January 25, 2012, 02:44:34 AM
Also, the piracy, despite how much of it there is, may, in fact, be trivial. There's really no way to know how much of an impact it has on the movie, music and gaming industry.
I'm not going to dig up all the studies that noted that piracy is actually a net positive, but I wanted to leave this here (http://www.itworld.com/security/242587/best-evidence-showing-we-need-sopa-based-govt-studies-never-existed).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2012, 09:22:52 AM
No, I don't. It may be on Google, but I suspect its something only the RIAA knows and probably wouldn't want anyone else to know.
The lawsuits and the settlements are pretty much attempts at scare tactics. They know they can't stop piracy - but the biggest reason people pirate (aside from the "Hey, free stuff!") is that there is virtually no downside to it. If the MPAA/RIAA can make you think maybe, just maybe you're gonna get caught and have to pay out thousands and your entire life will be ruined... then, perhaps, you'll stop downloading.
On a slightly related note, why the **** do people shoplift CDs? I mean, really - you're not gonna get caught downloading the music online - it's far more risky to come into my store and steal a CD...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 25, 2012, 10:18:03 AM
SOPA and PIPA was never about piracy or copyright infringement. The exercise was to break the internet so that the channels of distribution reverts back to them. Imagine if the internet was only a couple thousand sites wide, all controlled by a handful of companies, the internet wouldn't be anything more than cable TV with 500 channels. Currently no one owns the internet and this is a very good thing. I hoppe this remains this way forever.
Bingo!
It's all about controlling distribution channels. It always has been. Entities like the RIAA and MPAA are little more than middlemen. They're useless without a strangled market, and the emergence of just such a market scares them. They know that they will fade away. So rather than change and adapt to the market, they would rather hold it back and try to control it in the same way that they always have.
The internet is dynamic. You get what you want, when you want, from where you want. The powers that be would much rather havve an easily controlled and passive experience. They want to decide what you get, and when, and how. Just like they do with television and radio. It's easy to control. Furthermore, it makes the populace itself easier to control.
Sadly, the internet is already closer to that than it was originally intended to be. You can see the corporate control everyday. People gleefully herb themselves into these portals, walled gardens, and gateways, never peaking out beyond the fence. If it's not on Facebook or YouTube, chances are they don't know that it even exists. There is no longer and exploration. Hardly anyone has a personal website nowadays. There are no web rings. It's the same kind of mindset we used to snicker at AOL users for. The sheer popularity of the internet has been its greatest weakness as well as its greatest strength.
Plus, even if a majority of people did pirate stuff, that is still not a reason to legalize it.
Wouldn't it be? That's how revolutions start right there.
The point isn't to argue the decriminalization of copyright infringement though. The point is to get the system grounded back in something resembling reality. To stop catering to dying industries. To spend money where it is really needed and will really help people. I guess that we would have to stop thinking of faceless corporations as "people" first...
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2012, 10:30:01 AM
The point isn't to argue the decriminalization of copyright infringement though. The point is to get the system grounded back in something resembling reality. To stop catering to dying industries. To spend money where it is really needed and will really help people. I guess that we would have to stop thinking of faceless corporations as "people" first...
You realize that actual, living and breathing people make up these "faceless" corporations, right?
Also, seriously, do you realize how bad it would be if copyright infringement was just legalized? For better or worse, countries with strong copyright protections (US, Japan) are countries with strong entertainment industries.
If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?
Now, imagine you just spent $50 million on that game/movie.
The *only* reason people don't mass pirate now (aside from those with slow internet speeds) is because it's illegal/immoral. If you take that away, you'd destroy the industry.
I agree the laws need to be changed - but to do away with criminal penalties all together? Insanity.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 25, 2012, 11:58:47 AM
The reason why I don't pirate everything is because I want to see more of whatever I had brought. It's not a legal or a moral question. The question is, do you want more of this?
Let's say I pirate something and I turn around and buy a copy. I didn't do it out of the kindness of my heart, I did it as an investment for more of the same in the future.
If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?
This situation already exists yet the market is still here. In China where they don't give a ****, they still make movies, massive epics with thousands of extras and they continue to do so because there is money in it even with industrialised bootlegging. Bollywood gets stronger every year. There are indie developers (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/39673/Indie_Fund_recoups_QUBE_90k_investment_in_4_days.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20GamasutraNews%20%28Gamasutra%20News%29) that spend upwards of 5/6 figures on a game and they make that back without issue.
Plenty of new innovations are coming out in this free environment, including new ways of funding development with kick starter programs, indie funds, direct end user funded development. The older models are still here, you can go to the big publishers, but now it is no longer the only option. This is literally voting with your dollars in action.
"Fair use (http://www.informationweek.com/news/201805939?cid=RSSfeed_TechWeb)" (Effectively limited legalised copyright infringement)is worth almost double in added value to the US economy than copyright @ 2.2 Trillion dollars.
Now abolishing copyright would make the whole exercise moot. There has to be some level of protection to prevent people from copying your product and selling it as their own. Laws should be a shield, not a weapon and the people who wrote SOPA/PIPA in every way to be a weapon as will their future attempts will be. No one wants them, but they bully, threaten (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/spains-ley-sinde-new-revelations), plot in secret (https://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/01/29)(ACTA), using the US government power to pass laws in foreign countries without representation of the citizens who had earlier rejected such law. Copyright laws are already too strong when you have a company suing a Timezone database (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/just-facts-lawsuit-against-timezone-database-deserves-sanctions) and almost winning just from the threat alone because they are a timezone database with no legal resources.
There are people like TJ that think saving the Music and Movie industry $89 million (http://www.itworld.com/security/242587/best-evidence-showing-we-need-sopa-based-govt-studies-never-existed) is worth sacrificing the internet over. I won't summarise that article as I can't do it justice it deserves.(Thank you MegaByte for the link earlier) That is 28.9 CENTS per person in direct ecomonic damage caused by piracy assuming that it doesn't have positive effects or assuming that there is a level of economic damage that would call for the destruction of the internet not offset by the internet itself.
Lastly corporations maybe made up of people(Not always, see shell corporations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_corporation)), but they are not people and they don't represent people. They are a legal construct used to mitigate personal risks in business. It is a useful construct, it lowers risks by pooling and limiting liability, help people work towards a singular goal regardless of motivations, creed or ability, increased productivity through scales of economy and enable big projects by pooling resources.
But never, ever mistake a company as a "person".
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: bustin98 on January 25, 2012, 12:31:37 PM
I like this thread. Shows we have some thought provoking people here. I don't agree with everyone, but there is some thought present.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 25, 2012, 05:12:42 PM
If you spent $5,000 developing a game or shooting a movie, and as soon as it was released (or, sometimes, beforehand) anyone could copy it whenever they wanted and no one was expected to pay you for it, do you think you'd make you $5,000 back?
It's funny you should ask, because I have done exactly that. Except in my case it was actually closer to $8,000. It took a little more than a year of fairly low-level marketing to make all of my money back. That was in 20009, and the film still sells a handful of copies each month. I've made a profit doing something I would have done anyway because I enjoy doing it.
The entire film is available for download or for streaming right through my website for free. Furthermore, it is made available under a Share-alike license. Just like all of my work is. People still buy a physical copy, though. Why? Because they genuinely enjoy it and want an official copy. Maybe they want to spread the word and give it to someone else as a gift or donate a copy to their local library. Perhaps they tend to like my work in general and want to show their support. Hell, maybe they just want to see the goofy extras and behind the scenes stuff that is held back exclusively for the physical release.
The point is that this isn't some utopian idea being thrown around. It works, and it works well. The entrenched industries don't like it however because they would have to do things like charge fair prices and produce products that aren't absolute trash. They would have to change how they do business, and that is the very last thing they want to do.
As I said before, the point isn't to decriminalize copyright infringement. The point is to get the system grounded back in something resembling reality. Should content creators be able to profit from their work if they choose to? Absolutely, but not for Life+70 Years. That doesn't promote creativity, it stifles it. Not only will the original creator become lazy and never produce again, but his work is now locked down to the point where it may practically never be used in further innovation. Without a copyright system in place I can't retain what control I do want over my own work, such as impose a Copyleft license. ;)
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 25, 2012, 05:22:36 PM
I'm not sure whether piracy helps or hurts the industry. Either way may be true. But if it does hurt the industry, I doubt its by very much. Actors and Actresses are making hundreds of millions of dollars, so they can't be hurting too badly.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 25, 2012, 09:34:00 PM
Exactly. I love when people representing Hollywood studios whine and bitch about how piracy "really hurts the stage hands, etc" - yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the lead actors making $20 million per film (along with profit sharing, not just their salary, often), and the producers making the same if not more.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 25, 2012, 09:47:25 PM
Right. The cost of doing movies is going up, and it's not the pirates' fault. Studios try to throttle movie theatres out of the ticket sales who then have to (pardon my French) charge out the ass for soda and popcorn. The real problem just comes down to studios making **** movies with over paid actors and overdone CGI.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 25, 2012, 10:59:44 PM
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like. While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 26, 2012, 11:42:46 AM
I don't believe that your hardcore pirates gather things for actual consumption. They download hundreds of movies and dozens of video games per week. They never get around to actually utilizing the vast majority of what they pirate. They would have never bought most of it in the first place, even if they could have physically afforded to. They just like having the stuff.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 26, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
Most of the movies I've seen aren't even worth watching a single time, and of those worth watching once very few were good enough I'd ever consider watching a second or third time. So it wouldn't be worth it for me to spend $20-$30 to buy a DVD/Blu-ray since I would only watch it once anyway.
That said, I also don't understand why anyone would pirate movies when you can just borrow them from the local library for free anyway or you can watch them on TV if you're willing to wait long enough. There's nothing illegal about that, but at the same time it doesn't cost you a cent either.
Shouldn't public libraries be illegal? One would think they would hurt sales, because people can just borrow what they want for free instead of buying it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 26, 2012, 06:38:46 PM
Shouldn't public libraries be illegal? One would think they would hurt sales, because people can just borrow what they want for free instead of buying it.
*yawn*.
Either you know why this isn't the case or it's not worth the time explaining it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 26, 2012, 07:31:13 PM
Public libraries would be illegal if the idea was proposed in today's world of IP laws. There's already a plethora of idiotic arguments against lending digital goods, such as e-books.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2012, 07:44:03 PM
Stop being so cynical Morari, no they wouldn't be. I do think it's stupid publishers are having restrictions on renting eBooks (the American Library Association recently was upset after Penguin Publishing pulled its eBooks from libraries after a glitch let Kindle users keep their books after the rental date ended). If anything, the government has been very supportive of libraries and I have never seen any IP holder complain about them.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 26, 2012, 08:14:20 PM
Stop being so cynical Morari, no they wouldn't be.
Can you offer a good argument that they wouldn't?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 26, 2012, 08:22:15 PM
Besides the fact that I just stated that both the government and IP holders support libraries? You don't see anyone advocating against them like you do with used games or services like Netflix/Redbox.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 26, 2012, 09:55:58 PM
If it wasn't for the fact that libraries are and have been a staple of society for a very long time, as in, if libraries did not exist and the idea to start a library was something new, then I agree with Morari's notion.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 26, 2012, 10:07:14 PM
I remember Jack Valenti who was the head of the MPAA at the time was against the introduction of VCRs and fought it. Fortunately he lost and VCRs were allowed to exist, and the movie industry has profited greatly from them and the sales of VHS videos and then later DVDs and Bluray, but at the time they were against it and tried to kill it off.
So with that said, I have no doubt if public libraries didn't exist and if someone tried to introduce them now in this day and age there would be a shitstorm of opposition to it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 28, 2012, 05:37:03 AM
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like. While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?
I have been thinking about this question over the last couple of days thinking why I couldn't come up with an answer to this question. Reframing the question to"If Hollywood keep making **** movies,why are people still paying movie to see them?" produces an answer and the answer is the same for both questions and is equally irrelevant as the question itself.
The answer is that there are people that like this stuff and people with more discerning taste might very well be in the minority. Why do you think movie license games keep selling in significant, but not blockbusting amounts despite overwhelming evidence that they are 95% of the time at best mediocre games and at worse a step above a black screen.
I couldn't possibly tell you why they like it, you will have to ask someone like that yourself, all I can tell you is that they do like it and they represent a significant number that maybe a silent majority. In related news: European Parliament rapporteur quits in Acta protest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16757142) For those wondering what the hell a rapporteur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapporteur) is. They are special investigators of special issues who produce reports that shape policy. Based on the artical, it looks like he was completely locked out of the process he was hired for. Kader Arif:
Quote
"I condemn the whole process which led to the signature of this agreement: no consultation of the civil society, lack of transparency since the beginning of negotiations, repeated delays of the signature of the text without any explanation given, reject of Parliament's recommendations as given in several resolutions of our assembly."
ACTA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement) is something we wouldn't know about if it was for Wikileaks (http://wikileaks.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_US_ACTA_multi-lateral_intellectual_property_trade_agreement_%282007%29). Since it is a treaty, it can bypass a lot of the normal legal channels bills are considered under. Due to the general lack of information cause by the secrecy in has been negotiated under, the treaty's impact cannot be accurately estimated, but based n the leaks so far, there is nothing good (http://www.stopacta.info/) about it, mirroring bills like PIPA and SOPA.
The Polish (http://www.webcitation.org/64zkMch6h) are in (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16735219) protest (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16686265).
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on January 28, 2012, 06:37:52 AM
Poland owns
(http://i.imgur.com/bogKP.jpg)
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 28, 2012, 01:02:07 PM
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to try and assassinate the king of England). I know that is a picture is not of Anonymous, just saying. It would be like wearing a mask with the image of Timothy McVeigh.
Also, ACTA was public news BEFORE Wikileaks posted something. Wikileaks first posted something on it in May 2008 (though it still didn't become more well known until earlier this year), but I found news articles on it as early as October 2007: http://www.outsourcing-pharma.com/Contract-Manufacturing/Global-pact-to-fight-fakes (http://www.outsourcing-pharma.com/Contract-Manufacturing/Global-pact-to-fight-fakes) and http://newsblaze.com/story/20071024102942tsop.nb/topstory.html (http://newsblaze.com/story/20071024102942tsop.nb/topstory.html)
And since it's a treaty, it itself is now law. It's just an agreement by the countries to create laws/policies/guidelines, etc.
There are still lots of good movies from Hollywood, it's just that there are so many more movies now that is just seems like it's mostly crap. It's like TV, there are still just as many good shows but there are many more channels now and this meant more crap too.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 28, 2012, 01:05:59 PM
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to assassinate the current king of England).
I recall a story about a bunch of thugs that disguised themselves as natives, then went and ransacked their government's ships, sinking them and throwing all the property overboard in protest of some of their government's policies.
"Terrorism" can vary, based on which side of the politics you fall on.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on January 28, 2012, 01:10:56 PM
There is a difference between throwing tea and stuff into the water, and trying to kill the king and members of parliament. That is never acceptable, and I would go into more modern terms but don't want to go too much into politics. McVeigh also did what he did because he disagreed with what the government did, the only difference is he succeeded (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=hqD&rlz=1R1GGLL_en___US410&sa=X&ei=eDokT-DeBcHc0QGUorS3CA&ved=0CCQQvwUoAQ&q=succeeded&spell=1) in his act of terrorism while Fawkes did not.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 28, 2012, 01:17:20 PM
Whoops - they didn't sink the ship... I thought they did.
Regardless, TJ - how many of the King's soldiers did these terrorists kill during their little revolt against their government? Or did they just hold them down and tickle them?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 28, 2012, 02:22:06 PM
I keep reading comments about the lack of quality that comes out of Hollywood and the like. While I don't disagree on a large portion of it - I do have to ask, if no one likes what they're producing, then why does anyone bother pirating their stuff?
It's hard to know if you'll like something without tasting it. Sure it may have your least favorite ingredient, and sure it doesn't smell too great either, but curiosity is a bitch.
This is how I pirate:
1. Movies that deserve to make money, I'll watch in IMAX, maybe even three or four times. This category included some great movies like the Dark Knight, Avatar, and How to Train Your Dragon.
Watching movies in IMAX only is important because it is an experience I can't replicate yet. And the less money I give to normal theaters, the more Hollywood will be forced to innovate; making IMAX theaters more prevalent at first and later bringing better and better technology to theater goers.
2. Movies that suck deserve to be pirated. It's a train of thought I have that most people don't agree with, but it's no doubt a form of capitalism. I'm voting with my dollars only when I deem it completely worth it. If I don't find it worth going to the theater for or renting, I'm going to download it and see if I was right. Now there are times where I watch a pirated movie and realize that it was absolutely worth my money and I go out and buy the DVD or BluRay (Boondock Saints falls into that category). But mostly, I'm proven right.
The only problem with my model is that the quality of my pirated movie is usual sub-par while it's in theaters so I have to make a gut decision whether to go watch a movie or not. My last decision was Immortals. That didn't turn out too well. Kinda wish I didn't vote for it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 28, 2012, 02:27:34 PM
2. Movies that suck deserve to be pirated. It's a train of thought I have that most people don't agree with, but it's no doubt a form of capitalism.
Taking something without compensating the owners/creators of that something is no form of capitalism I'm aware of.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 28, 2012, 02:35:47 PM
In theory, yes. But it practice, the world can't work like that. Information would be so limited.
Have you ever given a book to a friend after you read it?
In order for that example to work, someone would have to first buy the pirated movie and then give it to me. Since the best quality versions are DVD-rips or BluRay-rips, I'm pretty sure that's the case. However, in my example it is one book being given and not a copy of it, so the first owner would lose the book as someone gained it. And that is where I think the fundamental argument lies.
If I own something, can I make a copy of it? If I own a copy of something, can I give it away?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 28, 2012, 02:36:54 PM
It's actually kind of an interesting business model he's suggesting. In a post-scarcity economy for entertainment, he's arguing for payment to be contingent on enjoyment, as opposed to distribution, which no longer costs anything. I've seen musicians arguing a similar point, where they make their money from live shows and merchandise, and don't care if the music files are pirated. If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money. Or it could destroy the business entirely. But it would be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 28, 2012, 02:42:05 PM
If it were widely adopted, I could see it increasing the quality of entertainment, with the things people enjoy the most making the most money.
Which is *awesome* - if you like popular things.
If you like niche things, well...
Niche things don't do well now under the conventional system.
They do well enough to get made.
That's not to say your idea would kill niche products - they already exist now, in a similar format to what you describe. But it's already hard enough to find some of this stuff legally - could you imagine if there was *no* profit to be made by it?
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 28, 2012, 03:20:30 PM
As someone who doesn't pirate, I don't think you can relate to the type of environment I dwell in. Having every genre of music available to you for free doesn't make things harder to find, it opens up the world. This isn't like searching through a library in the dark, it's more like Homer visiting the Land of Chocolate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb7YtNu35xU). The only thing stopping you from exploring the land and all it's wonderful fruit is you.
Furthermore, in today's conventional system popularity will always make you money. That's true in what I envision as well except I'm not being told what's popular, I'm finding it. So if these niche bands who would have never been picked by the conventional system get circulated by billions of people, they have a better chance of becoming popular and thus of succeeding.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 28, 2012, 03:36:59 PM
The contents on ACTA were never made public until Wikileak's release and it's contents still doesn't have an official release. Why do you think Kader Arif quit his job? Here is the full text of his statement (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120126/11014317553/european-parliament-official-charge-acta-quits-denounces-masquerade-behind-acta.shtml):
Quote
I want to denounce in the strongest possible manner the entire process that led to the signature of this agreement: no inclusion of civil society organisations, a lack of transparency from the start of the negotiations, repeated postponing of the signature of the text without an explanation being ever given, exclusion of the EU Parliament's demands that were expressed on several occasions in our assembly.
As rapporteur of this text, I have faced never-before-seen manoeuvres from the right wing of this Parliament to impose a rushed calendar before public opinion could be alerted, thus depriving the Parliament of its right to expression and of the tools at its disposal to convey citizens' legitimate demands.”
Everyone knows the ACTA agreement is problematic, whether it is its impact on civil liberties, the way it makes Internet access providers liable, its consequences on generic drugs manufacturing, or how little protection it gives to our geographical indications.
This agreement might have major consequences on citizens' lives, and still, everything is being done to prevent the European Parliament from having its say in this matter. That is why today, as I release this report for which I was in charge, I want to send a strong signal and alert the public opinion about this unacceptable situation. I will not take part in this masquerade.
The whole process is damn undemocratic. Do you think they have something to hide? Looks to be a classic example of policy laundering (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_laundering).
And since it's a treaty, it itself is now law. It's just an agreement by the countries to create laws/policies/guidelines, etc.
For the US, this is very wrong and it other countries, still wrong, just less so. Once a treaty is ratified, it becomes binding on all the states under the Supremacy Clause (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_ratification#Ratification_of_an_international_treaty). Once ratified in the US, it automatically becomes law even if it was agree upon under executive agreement(Presidential power) alone, requiring no vote. In fact, treaties are only second to the constitution and will override domestic laws in the US and in many other countries.
What is potentially likely to happen is that should the treaty be ratified, the US would repeal the treaty due to "Unconstitutionality" once foreign governments have enacted the law leaving other nations in a competitive disadvantage.
If you don't want to discuss politics TJ, stop discussing it. Also, what the hell does terrorism have to do with this? Guy Fawkes's image has long since been co-opted into something different from the moment his plot was discovered and continues to change as time goes by. Guy Fawkes was initially celebrated to promote the King's escape, then as a man of convictions to stand against corruption and now the universal face of rebellion against western governments that no longer represent the people. It also sells fireworks. In a spot of irony, The Guy face mask is copyrighted by Time-Warner (http://fairuselab.net/2011/08/30/who-profits-from-those-anonymous-guy-fawkes-masks-time-warner/). Which makes it an extra awesome display of subtly that the Polish pirated the mask by printing them on paper. I really hate having to explain a joke to you TJ. Sorry for ruining your joke SUPER.
Oh, lets not forget to add something funny to the discussion. Remember when the RIAA sued for $75 TRILLION DOLLARS. That's 75,000,000,000,000 Dollars (http://www.pcworld.com/article/223431/riaa_thinks_limewire_owes_75_trillion_in_damages.html). Yes that's trillions. That's greater then the GDP of the entire world and a full 5 years GDP of the US. I will let you guess what the judge said.
Niche products always have a smaller market by definition, the main problem was always the difficulty of reaching the potential customers of such a market. Now things are just a google away. Old school business models don't do niche this they are so small they don't have good investment to payoff ratios assuming under their model it was ever positive, leaving it open to other more enterprising people willing to take more risks. With the internet, the bar to finding a niche product has fallen so far(Think rule 34), that the sum total of the niche market has become a large proportion of the total market making them collectively, a threat to the larger, established players. Under the new system, the big players earn less, but everybody else gains. The big boys don't want this since it means they buy 2 boats instead of 3 when they can live with 1.
One of the greatest things that impede free market efficacy is imperfect information, while perfect information can't be achieved, we can get very close to it. Pirating something can be considered almost perfect information on a product, making it extremely good at judging it's true value. It's very free market.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: broodwars on January 28, 2012, 04:09:29 PM
The U.S. could always chose to not accept the treaty, rather than leave this matter to the courts. China's done it on at least one occasion to preserve its piracy-driven economy, and I believe we've refused a few environmental treaties before as well.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on January 28, 2012, 04:17:05 PM
As a point of clarification, it's the US pushing for this treaty in cooperation with Japan, so the US has already accepted the treaty. What happens afterwards is another matter.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 28, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
I find it fitting that Anonymous likes Guy Fawkes masks since Fawkes was a terrorist (he tried to blow up the Parliament building and participated in the plot to try and assassinate the king of England).
Does it mean anything to you that the king was a despot who persecuted Catholics and anyone else who wasn't Protestant? If taking a stand for religious tolerance makes Guy Fawkes a terrorist, then yeah he was a terrorist but a good terrorist.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 28, 2012, 06:55:42 PM
At least we can all agree that Guy Fawkes is the best name in human history.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 28, 2012, 07:55:49 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 28, 2012, 07:58:59 PM
I am hesitant to consider Guy Fawkes a hero per se because his objective was to install a new (although probably less tyrannical) monarch in place of the one he assassinated. Had his goal been to create a republic or democracy, then yeah, why wouldn't he be a hero? But on the same token, I don't consider him to be a villain either because the king was a bad guy. According to wikipedia King James VI personally supervised the torture of women during the witch hunts. How the hell can that be considered good? And the persecution of catholics and other religions was evil too.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 28, 2012, 08:37:11 PM
I'm pretty sure we blew up Saddam Hussein's house...sorry for getting the thread closed.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2012, 09:10:15 PM
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 28, 2012, 09:28:04 PM
I was going to point that one out, but actually THIS (http://www.break.com/pictures/batman-bin-suparman577325.html) is the best name ever. It means Batman, Son of Suparman...which is close enough.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2012, 12:38:40 AM
I think the thing some of you are missing regarding my concern for niche products isn't "finding" them (although I did use that word) - is more of "Who's going to create them?"
Granted - you're going to have some folks who will create to create, if only for the passion of it - but passion can only get you so far. Personally, I'd *LOVE* to own my own arcade... and you can't tell me I don't have the passion for it. However, I'd need someone to finance it and, as the arcade likely wouldn't really make enough to survive, I'm going to need them to finance my salary as well.
It's a similar thing with niche products. If we move to a "pay what you want" model, you're going to see less niche products simply for the fact that small-time producers and such can't afford to make them. They're going to have a harder time getting any kind of capital to help finance their vision (more so than now) and they're not going to have as much time to devote to it because they're going to be working a day job or two.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 29, 2012, 01:43:20 AM
How is that significantly different from something like the indie game scene right now? They rarely get outside capital, and often work other jobs in addition to making the game.
Look at something like the Humble Indie Bundles. A lot of people pay less than a dollar, but some people pay thousands. Obviously you can't expect that to happen all the time, but it would at least somewhat balance out, at least at first. The real issue would be how things would work if such a model became more common and fewer people went out of their way to support it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2012, 01:47:39 AM
How is that significantly different from something like the indie game scene right now? They rarely get outside capital, and often work other jobs in addition to making the game.
Look at something like the Humble Indie Bundles. A lot of people pay less than a dollar, but some people pay thousands. Obviously you can't expect that to happen all the time, but it would at least somewhat balance out, at least at first. The real issue would be how things would work if such a model became more common and fewer people went out of their way to support it.
Is there a game on the indie scene anywhere close to the quality of, say, Xenoblade?
Don't get me wrong - there are some great indie games out there (just finished Cut the Rope on my phone today... first cell phone game I've actually not felt like I wasted my money on!)... but nothing on the indie scene has reached this kind of quality.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 29, 2012, 02:01:30 AM
If by quality you mean production values, then no. Personally, I'd take something like Super Meat Boy or VVVVVV over Xenoblade in a heartbeat. But you were talking about niche products, which I wouldn't consider Xenoblade to be.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2012, 02:11:40 AM
I'd say Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV actually have a larger audience than Xenoblade.
As for "quality", of course, it's subjective - but looking at the reviews of Xenoblade vs. those of Super Meat Boy and VVVVVV, I'd say the general consensus is that Xenoblade is a notch above the other two.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 29, 2012, 02:25:43 AM
I'm a big platformer guy and not much of an RPG fan. People who like big, epic RPGs probably wouldn't benefit as much from a system like this.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: UncleBob on January 29, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
I'm a big platformer guy and not much of an RPG fan. People who like big, epic RPGs probably wouldn't benefit as much from a system like this.
Platforming isn't really a niche genre though. RPGs that are not Final Fantasy are. :D
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 29, 2012, 03:20:44 PM
Sims, Farmville, Animal Crossing.
All three of those have been more popular than FF as of late.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on January 29, 2012, 07:34:42 PM
Don't forget Mass Effect and Fallout.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Morari on January 29, 2012, 10:11:43 PM
Just wait until there's a 3D printer in every house. Then we'll be having this argument about downloading the schematics to IKEA furniture pieces.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on January 29, 2012, 10:26:21 PM
Odd that you bring it up, because PirateBay just starting posting torrents for 3D printers.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: nickmitch on January 29, 2012, 10:36:21 PM
That's actually going to be a REALLY interesting. Will companies sell things for us to print? Or will people just scan things, write the programs and send them out? Is that bootlegging? Counterfeiting? Interesting question. . .
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: oohhboy on February 06, 2012, 03:58:29 AM
A step (http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120203/11115017653/poland-prime-minister-suspends-any-effort-to-ratify-acta-may-kill-acta-eu.shtml) in the right direction. On a related note, some levity.
Head to the site for a bonus panel. Go to the red button at the bottom of the comic.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on May 25, 2012, 11:11:10 AM
Wow. The RIAA is insane. (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/05/24/the-riaa-do-not-believe-a-word-they-say-ever-for-theyre-claiming-72-trillion-in-damages/)
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 25, 2012, 12:22:33 PM
Did you read the entire article? Because the author admits they screwed up, the RIAA did not ask for $72 trillion or any specific amount. Someone made up the number and others started saying the RIAA asked for it. It doesn't matter anyways since the RIAA settled with Limewire for $105 million in May 2011.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Dasmos on May 27, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
Did you read it?
Quote
So the RIAA is quite correct, they did not ask for a specific number and they did not ask for $72 trillion. However, they did at one point seem to be asking for statutory damages not for each file that was shared but for each copy of each file: multiply that up and you get the $72 trillion figure. So that’s not actually what they asked for although it is implied in one of the detailed legal arguments that they tried to use. And of course this is an old case which has been settled.
So yeah, they didn't specifically outline $72 trillion, but it's what they were suggesting they were entitled to.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 27, 2012, 10:54:29 AM
$72 Trillion is more than the entire planet is worth.
Title: Re: Nintendo Wises Up
Post by: Stogi on May 27, 2012, 01:15:17 PM
