Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Stogi on July 09, 2009, 03:48:01 PM
Title: Wii HD?
Post by: Stogi on July 09, 2009, 03:48:01 PM
Have you guys seen this? Apparently, they've been able to emulate the Wii and GC on computers and in doing so have been able to bump our favorite games to 720p.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Caterkiller on July 09, 2009, 04:00:29 PM
I can clearly see the difference in Brawl and WW! Wow that is really nice! I wasn't on the HD bandwagon so long ago, but after seeing this, I can't wait for HD Nintendo in another 5 years or so.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 04:02:41 PM
Wii should have been HD from the beginning. Even if it had the same general specs just out putting the picture in 720p would make a difference. Even the original Xbox could output in 720p!
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 09, 2009, 04:56:11 PM
I saw this a while back, do you have any idea what the minimum PC specs are?
Just wanna know out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: ShyGuy on July 09, 2009, 04:56:54 PM
480p up to 720p doesn't seem that dramatic to me.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 05:07:16 PM
480p is not HD, 720p is HD. If yo have two TV's set up next to each other one in 480 and then one in 720 it is easy to tell the difference. When games run at a higher resolution things are always clearer and sharper.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 09, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
480p is considered ED or Enhanced Definition
720p/1080p is HD or High Definition.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 09, 2009, 05:42:58 PM
Really really nice. Good to see obviously.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2009, 08:09:19 PM
It seems that there is notable slow down in the HD versions...the games just don't seem to be running as smoothly and fast in the higher resolution.
That said, this also proves that Nintendo can and probably will have the Wii 2 HD with backwards compatibility, after all if you can have all your games play already with 720p then why not in the upgrade? It would also be a huge selling point for Wii 2.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 08:19:14 PM
Alot of that has to do with they record with FRAPs. Record anything with it and there will be pretty good slowdown in your video. Then it all depends on the rig also. Wii games arn't really meant to be run on anything other than the Wii hardware so there isn't the same optimization.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Morari on July 09, 2009, 08:22:41 PM
I saw this a while back, do you have any idea what the minimum PC specs are?
Just wanna know out of curiosity.
Taken directly from the developer's page:
Quote
======= System Requirements ======= * Operating System: Microsoft Windows (2000/XP/Vista or higher) / Linux / Apple Mac OS X (Intel version). * Processor: Any Fast CPU with SSE2 supported (recommended at least 2Ghz). Dual Core for speed boost. use cpu-z to see if your cpu supports it( and google cpu-z dont ask us!) * Graphics: Any graphics card that supports Direct3D 9 or OpenGL 2.1. * Your Brain: Understanding the FAQ, Forum Rules, and that we don't support Piracy.
Note: OpenGL plugin is the best working video plugin for Dolphin, do not expect great results with the Direct3D9 plugin compared to the alternate one. Note: Direct3D9 plugin is still in the works and has more kinks than the OGL one, so expect to run into black screen, shading errors, and other graphical bugs. Note: Dolphin is not 100% perfect at its emulation. Running into crashes, errors, and whatnot is expected!
======= Runtime Library Requirements ======= Dolphin needs you have to have the libraries listed below installed.
[Windows] -MS Visual C++ Runtime 2008 SP1: This fixes the "side by side" / "application config" & model errors Microsoft VC++ 2008 SP1 Redist x86 - For 32bit Windows Microsoft VC++ 2008 SP1 Redist x64 - For 64bit Windows
-The DirectX March 2009 Runtime: This fixes the plugin loading errors Note: THIS MEANS UPDATE YOUR DIRECTX EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE VERSION 9.0c or 10 or 10.1!!!!!! Microsoft DirectX Updater
[Linux] -install libbluetooth: fixes the "PANIC failed to load plugin Plugins/libPlugin_wiimote.so" error for linux users
======= Video Card Requirements ======= You must have a video card that support OpenGL 2.x fully or Direct3D 9.0c.
Note: The Direct3D9 video plugin is old/outdated and it looks like it doesn't work anymore. We recommend using the Dolphin OpenGL Video plugin for better video emulation.
Note: Make sure your drivers are up to date! [Driver Sites] NVIDIA Drivers ATI Drivers
[Models that Dolphin likes] - NVIDIA GeForce 6 to 9 Series and GeForce 200 Series --* GeForce 6 Series --* GeForce 7 Series --* GeForce 8 Series --* GeForce 9 Series --* GeForce 200 Series - ATI Radeon R200 to R700 Series --* ATI Radeon Processor Generations --* Radeon 300 --* Radeon 420 --* Radeon 520 --* Radeon 600 --* Radeon 700
[Model thats Dolphin doesn't like] - Any Intel Graphics Media Accelerator (GMA) Chipset (These cards do not support OpenGL 2.x fully) --* Intel Graphics Media Accelerator - Older NVIDIA Chipsets --* GeForce 256 --* GeForce 2 --* GeForce 3 --* GeForce 4 --* GeForce FX Series - ATI Radeon R200 and Older --* ATI Radeon Processor Generations --* Radeon 100 --* Radeon 200 --* RIVA TNT ------+ RIVA TNT --* RAGE ------+ Rage
Not too steep at all. That said, performance does vary... just like with any emulator.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 09, 2009, 08:42:51 PM
That seems like any basic computer you could have bought for the last 5 years... Doesn't say much for Wii processing power.
I would hope that a Wii2 has full backwards compatibility with all disc based Nintendo systems with an automatic visual upgrade to a minimum of 720p.
And from what I've seen, alot of HD adopters have been unknowingly buying 720p set thinking that all HD is created equal because they found a great deal. So I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo only planned on 720p support for the next console. I wouldn't agree with such a decision, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: King of Twitch on July 09, 2009, 09:10:10 PM
GX still has crappy music in HD
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 09:12:48 PM
You need a 52'' or bigger to really notice any difference in 720p and 1080p. Even though the 360 and PS3 can do 1080p almost all games just do 720p though, just look at the cases.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: AV on July 09, 2009, 09:13:56 PM
I agree. I think the video fails because it doesn't have compare and contrast. It doesn't click instantly sure it looks nice but its something to cry home about.
It seems that there is notable slow down in the HD versions...the games just don't seem to be running as smoothly and fast in the higher resolution.
That's a huge concern for me. it look great but if its not as smooth frame-rate as the 'original ' it doesn't do me any good.
I do think Nintendo should release a HD Wii. This is one of the upgrades that I actually want (DSi sucks IMO ) to have Wii that is equal to 360 in graphics, can up convert stuff and has on board 20 gig storage (in addition SD card support [ so download games can now be huge ] ) have Blu-Ray support and I'll be in love. The problem is that Nintendo might release it, but it won't mandate anything. So you will still have 80% of games only 480i. Not all games have widescreen or Progressive scan as is, some games look no better than PSP games for crying out loud.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 09:17:18 PM
Just keep in mind, its an emulator playing these games.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 09, 2009, 09:46:58 PM
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 09, 2009, 10:53:17 PM
I copied the conduit from my Wii to my USB HDD, and transferred to my laptop and played it in 1080p (and Super Smash Bros Melee), it looks absolutely amazing. Every Wii Game would look leaps and bounds better if we could simply upscale the image (via hardware). The games still can't really compare to 360/PS3, but they just look so much more crisp and you can see the detail in the textures that gets destroyed by the 480p maximum resolution.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 09, 2009, 11:07:36 PM
pics?
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 09, 2009, 11:11:04 PM
You do this through the emulator? Can you PM me the links to what you used? Thanks in advanced!
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: King of Twitch on July 10, 2009, 01:15:32 AM
Big Blue and Fire Field GX versions are a mess, enough said
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2009, 02:27:41 AM
Maybe they'll add it to the backwards compatibility of their next console, certainly doesn't make sense to release a hardware revision over something so minor especially since the hardware is tuned for the SD resolution and would probably need a bump in aspects like fillrate to keep up at HD.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Caliban on July 10, 2009, 02:45:58 AM
You need a 52'' or bigger to really notice any difference in 720p and 1080p.
You will only notice any difference in a 1080p source for screens bigger than 60", or so I've read.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: kraken613 on July 10, 2009, 03:04:24 AM
It all depends on the screen by that size. It just depends. 1080p is only for very large TV's.
So I got the emulator installed but my bluetooth is being retarded....
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2009, 03:50:51 AM
It also depends on how close you sit to the screen, of course I can tell resolutions apart on my 19" CRT PC monitor, I can also tell them apart on the 23" HDTV/PC monitor the consoles are conncted to. I just don't care enough to go "OMG I can't play my Wii anymore because it isn't HD and my eyes hurt!" because I've seen consoles remain at 320x240 when I've already run PC games at HD resolutions.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BwrJim! on July 10, 2009, 01:25:04 PM
Actually in the specs of the revolution it has the capability to do 720p, it was just locked down to help keep developers in a simple mind set. So a wii HD is already possible, they just have to basically flip a switch in a way. I have been waiting for this actually, because when the time comes, Nintendo can do what they need and then all of the sudden the wii is magical again for the masses.
and if I must, I can also point out that the wii is more powerful than the original xbox which did 720p no problem and through the use of hacks could actually do 1080i and p.. although the p output was a bit sluggish, the 1080i ran just fine. so I am taking it that the group responsible for the 720p is just usuing the revolution sdk that was leaked awhile back and did their thing.
This strategy falls right in line with two things for nintendo, no need to release new hardware and they can pull it out after they determine they need it to appease the masses.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2009, 01:30:24 PM
A Wii HD wouldn't be "all magical again for the masses" because the masses don't really care about HD. To the masses HD is nice to have but not necessary. While the grpahics hardware may be capable of 720p can the output connector handle that? If even one component in the chain cannot they'd have to release a Wii Plus.
Nintendo's high definition for the Wii is high definition motion controls AKA Motion Plus.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 10, 2009, 02:16:21 PM
You need a 52'' or bigger to really notice any difference in 720p and 1080p. Even though the 360 and PS3 can do 1080p almost all games just do 720p though, just look at the cases.
That's not even remotely true. If you're sitting about 6 feet away you probably won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p on maybe a 32" TV, anything larger than that will be very obvious. On my 17" laptop the difference between even 1440x900 and 1920x1200 is absolutely huge. 1080p is not for large TVs, it's the new standard. Every *new* TV I've seen 27" and larger has been 1080p, for a long time. Also, even though most 360 games are 720p, or even lower, they are upscaled via hardware to whatever resolution you set your console to (unlike the PS3, which lacks a hardware scaler). Hell, it's even obvious in the YouTube videos how big of a difference there can be. Watch a clip in "HQ" from any game listed in the YouTube post, then watch a clip in "HD", both times in fullscreen, and sit 3 feet away from your monitor. You'll see a huge difference, unless you're just fooling yourself. Note: this isn't all for kraken, I'm just using your post for a generalization.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 10, 2009, 02:33:03 PM
Actually in the specs of the revolution it has the capability to do 720p, it was just locked down to help keep developers in a simple mind set. So a wii HD is already possible, they just have to basically flip a switch in a way. I have been waiting for this actually, because when the time comes, Nintendo can do what they need and then all of the sudden the wii is magical again for the masses.
I'd be quite the happy camper if Nintendo were to release a firmware upgrade that did this, but I doubt they would.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 10, 2009, 03:04:27 PM
I've read that the framebuffer is too small, and the Wii will never output over 480p. I would LOVE to be wrong though.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BwrJim! on July 11, 2009, 12:57:17 AM
Hey KDR, lets not forget though that nintendo is training a new generation of players. and if the mass market has taught us one thing, they like shineys when the time is right. Over the years, the HD revolution is taking place all across america as we have the switch to digital signals. With the digital signals and sharper cleaner images (have you seen the tv picture threough the air waves.. Its neat) becoming more and more available, its only a matter of time for the masses to want to take advantage of this and not use a converter box and whatnot. I imagine that if anything was to happen, it would be about 2 years from now. That should be just about the beginning of the ramp up and we all fall for a shine gets every now and then. But the mass market is expected to start making large strides in upgrading and if we know one thing about Nintendo, they sure know how to market.
i will research the buffer concept, but the way the memory is organized in the system and how it works, i dont forsee that as an issue.
eheh, wouldnt it be funny if all the hacks out there on the wii, and they ported that dolphin emu to the wii and ran it through that..
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: TJ Spyke on July 11, 2009, 01:12:30 AM
Every *new* TV I've seen 27" and larger has been 1080p, for a long time.
When was the last time you actually checked? 1080p is NOT the standard, at least not for TV's under $1,500. 720p seems the standard, with 1080i also very common. 1080p tends to not be on a lot of TV's under $1,000. I wish it was, my 26" (yes I know you said 27") goes up to 1080i and I got it last August.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2009, 03:35:54 AM
HD is nice to have but I don't think a bit of shiny is enough to sell people on new expensive hardware. A TV is something you'll probably have to buy anyway but something like a BluRay player is only a tiny improvement over DVD and definitely not worth the massive investment, especially with all the version number chaos where your several hundred dollar player can suddently end up obsolete.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 11, 2009, 10:05:30 AM
You probably got that RCA that people have been trying to get rid of for years. Seriously, 1080i only applies to rear projection and CRT TVs, both of which are basically non-existent at this point. Anyway this is Best Buy's selection of 720p TVs (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=8337494234871180390&id=pcat17080&type=page&lcn=TV+%26+Video&sc=TVVideoSP&st=processingtime%3A%3E1900-01-01&usc=abcat0100000&cp=1&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&nrp=83&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0100000%23%230%23%23wv~~cabcat0101000%23%230%23%236e~~nf706||37323070&pagetype=listing), there are 87 of them, they are all under 32", or are 2 year old Samsung (series 4)/Panasonic TVs, or generic "starter" TVs. The 1080p section has 123 sets, and they start at 22" at a quick glance.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 11, 2009, 01:48:30 PM
You probably got that RCA that people have been trying to get rid of for years. Seriously, 1080i only applies to rear projection and CRT TVs, both of which are basically non-existent at this point. Anyway this is Best Buy's selection of 720p TVs (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&_dynSessConf=8337494234871180390&id=pcat17080&type=page&lcn=TV+%26+Video&sc=TVVideoSP&st=processingtime%3A%3E1900-01-01&usc=abcat0100000&cp=1&sp=-bestsellingsort+skuid&nrp=83&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~cabcat0100000%23%230%23%23wv~~cabcat0101000%23%230%23%236e~~nf706||37323070&pagetype=listing), there are 87 of them, they are all under 32", or are 2 year old Samsung (series 4)/Panasonic TVs, or generic "starter" TVs. The 1080p section has 123 sets, and they start at 22" at a quick glance.
But what price do they start at? My mom almost bought a 50" plasma the other day because it was on sale for ~$1000. I found it it was only a 720p set and told her to wait a little bit longer. Most of the TV's being bought are in the $350-$1200 range, and only the informed know to go with 1080p over 720p. From what I've seen (anecdotal evidence and all) most people are buying 720p because they don't know any better.
If you think about it, why would the average consumer spend more for the same size HD TV they walk into the store and see two 50" HDTVs, one for $999 and the other for $1450. They are naturally gonna get the 50" HDTV that there were looking for @ $999 not even caring that its 720p because they don't know the difference. Its just another confusing # like 10,000:1 ratio, black levels & contrast ratios, XXXhz
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 11, 2009, 04:31:37 PM
It's only confusing if you don't do any research before sinking huge amounts of money into an appliance.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 11, 2009, 04:38:50 PM
It's only confusing if you don't do any research before sinking huge amounts of money into an appliance.
That would be your average consumer.
learn the key phrases "HDTV" "widescreen" and run with it from there. Then they rely on the idiot sales man, who is most likely gonna push what makes him/her the most commission, and you end up with someone buying the 3yr old product that was probably 720p with only one HDMI slot.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 12, 2009, 03:54:06 PM
It's only confusing if you don't do any research before sinking huge amounts of money into an appliance.
That would be your average consumer.
Yeah, but it shouldn't be. That's my point. It's not difficult to check out a couple different websites before heading to the store/ordering one online. Five minutes will basically tell you everything you need to know.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just weird because my mom ALWAYS did her research before buying ANYTHING important. She has a 100% track record for buying games for my birthday and Christmas, even if I never even mentioned I wanted the game. Hell, she bought me Zack and Wiki and I never even uttered that phrase around her. She always looks at specs and reviews for any major purchase, mostly electronics such as TVs, computer parts, GPS...
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 12, 2009, 05:56:28 PM
Research is much slower when you don't even know what to research. People who have no idea that HD comes in different resolutions will first have to figure out that they have to look for that.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BwrJim! on July 12, 2009, 08:24:12 PM
heh
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 12, 2009, 08:43:51 PM
I bought 720p... because I only have a Wii.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Stogi on July 12, 2009, 08:55:39 PM
Isn't 720p and 1080i the same thing?
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: Caliban on July 12, 2009, 09:04:03 PM
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BwrJim! on July 13, 2009, 02:58:32 AM
differnce between i and p is
i = interlace p - progressive i = drawn 2 times on screen to get one image p = drawn once on screen to get image.
thats the most basic explanation.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: KDR_11k on July 13, 2009, 03:08:58 AM
Of course interlacing makes no damn sense considering how few HD CRTs there are. Also PC monitors have been doing resolutions like that without interlacing for a long time so it's not like it's hard to implement either. Modern digital encodings work better for progressive images than interlaced ones too.
Title: Re: Wii HD?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 13, 2009, 12:20:11 PM
i = interlace p - progressive i = drawn 2 times on screen to get one image p = drawn once on screen to get image.
thats the most basic explanation.
for a little more detailed explantion
A 640x480 image @ 30fps i = 1 image divided into 2 parts, 240 lines each. 1st half is shown @ 15fps on the odd frames (1, 3, 5, 7, etc, etc), 2nd half is shown on @15fps on even frames (2, 4, 6, 8, etc etc.). The two images get shuffled together like a deck of cards onto your television screen. Its why you would get a weird flickering image if you tried to record or take a pic of your television screen.
p = 1 solid image every frame every second. No flickering image when photographed or filmed.
