1. Convincing, professional chassis mold 2. Logo changed from PLAYSTATION 3 to PS3 which is logical, not proof for/against though 3. Packaging image is not shopped (though the pack itself might be custom made) 4. IBM have had the 45nm Cell in production (since mid 2008 I believe?), we all know the story about the general downsizing of PS3 components and lower power needs 5. Pink/green work stations! (same as background) 6. Sony shipped 10m PS3's in fiscal year 07 and 08 each, they are now (http://"http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=361620") saying 13m for 09. 7. Maintek Computer located in Suzhou, China, manufactures PS3s. They brought down the thread (Chinese) that was hosting these images with cease and desist.
they are saying that it could use the laptop slot loading Blu-ray drive, external power supply & probably launch around X-mas for $399 US Dollars
would you buy one?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 14, 2009, 02:28:29 PM
LOL doesn't sound useful to me, tho I can't see the pictures from work.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2009, 02:43:32 PM
it looks to be about 33% smaller from the motherboard comparison thanks to die shrinks (assuming the thing is real).
Quote
3509 : Alex_Hsieh [url] : 2009/05/14(木) 19:06:22 ID: - | EDIT We would like to ask you kindly remove the following pages of your pages on your website because the page contains MainTeK Computer Incorporation confidential document and photos, which were illegally released and posted on your website.
thats from the site that originally posted the pics, which are no longer up on his site.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 14, 2009, 03:39:12 PM
I already have a PS3, so even if this is real (there have been convincing looking fakes for systems before) I won't be getting it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 14, 2009, 03:41:53 PM
Isn't that cute. I wonder what features Sony will rip out next with this.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on May 14, 2009, 03:42:21 PM
And yet, the controller remains unaffected. The Playstation controller is the horseshoe crab of interactivity.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2009, 03:48:45 PM
I think constantly happy dancing pandas look fake!
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2009, 04:45:29 PM
Quote
And yet, the controller remains unaffected. The Playstation controller is the horseshoe crab of interactivity.
I don't like the Playstation controller much at all but realistically how could they change the controller in the middle of a generation? I guess they could make some minor changes but the general design has to remain the same. Though they definitely should redesign the controller for next gen.
All I care about is the price. Sony just never gets this. A niftier looking PS3 won't interest me unless it costs me less to buy it. They've done the same thing with the existing models. They don't lower the price they just give me a bigger hard drive. I DON'T WANT A BIGGER HARD DRIVE I WANT A CHEAPER PS3! So if this is just "now for the same money it's slimmer!!" then, yeah, **** off.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 04:51:10 PM
I don't like the Playstation controller much at all but realistically how could they change the controller in the middle of a generation?
Are you kidding? They've already changed the controller once this generation. They changed it twice during the original Playstation era!
Not to mention MS changed their controller for the original mid generation. Oh yeah ALSO Sony changed the PS1 controller during mid generation as well. It really is not something new.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2009, 05:09:35 PM
All I care about is the price. Sony just never gets this. A niftier looking PS3 won't interest me unless it costs me less to buy it. They've done the same thing with the existing models. They don't lower the price they just give me a bigger hard drive. I DON'T WANT A BIGGER HARD DRIVE I WANT A CHEAPER PS3! So if this is just "now for the same money it's slimmer!!" then, yeah, **** off.
I'm sure they would discount the old PS3 to empty out stock. so you can buy your PS3 Phat and continue to be unsatisfied(?)
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 14, 2009, 05:18:37 PM
It would not surprise me if this turns out to be true. I'm still as indifferent as ever about the PS3.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: vudu on May 14, 2009, 05:20:21 PM
Not to mention MS changed their controller for the original mid generation. Oh yeah ALSO Sony changed the PS1 controller during mid generation as well. It really is not something new.
The Xbox controller redesign fits into Ian's "minor changes" clause.
However, adding rumble and/or analog sticks does not.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 14, 2009, 06:36:40 PM
Are you kidding? They've already changed the controller once this generation. They changed it twice during the original Playstation era!
Adding rumble does not count as changing the controller (as the controller is still the same).
They only change it once with the PS1, when they add the analog sticks. That was only 1 year into the systems lifespan though and for quite some time games were required to support controllers without the analog sticks.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 14, 2009, 06:48:20 PM
Are you kidding? They've already changed the controller once this generation. They changed it twice during the original Playstation era!
Adding rumble does not count as changing the controller (as the controller is still the same).
They only change it once with the PS1, when they add the analog sticks. That was only 1 year into the systems lifespan though and for quite some time games were required to support controllers without the analog sticks.
But it got to the point where you had to. Also it still was changed a year into the systems lifespan, that still is significant and the point was that it isn't unheard of to make changes to the controller after it has launched and has been out. Not how long it has been out.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 14, 2009, 07:32:18 PM
Sony has changed the controller significantly once but it's still rare enough occurance that to expect a console maker to do it is unrealistic. I don't think it's fair to crap on Sony for not changing the controller with this console redesign.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 14, 2009, 08:08:39 PM
Well, if it is true, at least the Spiderman font is gone. On the box shot in the red label it says 120GB/ something something. It looks like GD to me, does anyone know what that is / means?
The PS controller needs more shapely / ergonomic handles (this could happen mid gen) and a switched dpad and analog. I also prefer the bumpers on the 360 compared to the two pairs of identical shoulder buttons, mainly because don't like using my middle fingers on L2 and R2.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2009, 08:26:59 PM
it says 120GB/GO
GB (Gigabyte) is common term / GO (Gigaocetet) french, because they refuse to conform.
Makes it seem like that particular box is meant for maybe Canada where they speak both english and french
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: blackfootsteps on May 14, 2009, 08:32:23 PM
Ah interesting, thanks BnM
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 14, 2009, 09:05:43 PM
Makes it seem like that particular box is meant for maybe Canada where they speak both english and french
It's standard for all PS3 boxes (at least in North America). I live in the US and got my PS3 in November at Best Buy and it says 80GB/80 Go. It saves them money by making one box for all of the US and Canada rather than 1 for the US and most of Canada and a seperate one for Quebec. It's the reason that all of Nintendo's games now have their boxes in 3 languages (English/Spanish/French). This allows them to send the same box to all of North America rather than create separate ones.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Spinnzilla on May 14, 2009, 09:38:49 PM
This probably won't be able to play PS3 games.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on May 14, 2009, 09:42:40 PM
can't wait to see what features they drop
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: AV on May 14, 2009, 10:04:10 PM
now thats a huge improvement over the ps3 of now. E3 is going to be exciting
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 14, 2009, 10:09:50 PM
Being smaller is a "huge improvement"? I think you need to reconsider your priorities in a game console.
Anyway, sounds like Sony, so probably legit. How long after PS2 did the PSTwo come out?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2009, 10:37:36 PM
I think PStwo came out 4 years after PS2
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 14, 2009, 11:42:05 PM
Well the PS3 is also performing significantly below expectations brought about by the success of the PS2, so I can see it. Probably wouldn't be released until November or something, putting it right at the three year mark.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: AV on May 15, 2009, 01:42:36 AM
Being smaller is a "huge improvement"? I think you need to reconsider your priorities in a game console.
Anyway, sounds like Sony, so probably legit. How long after PS2 did the PSTwo come out?
I like the idea of Smaller Electronics that don't take up that much space. I love my Mac Mini, Wii and DS lite which are small compact. I don't know if it has less features or whatever, but ps3 is one ugly console so I rather have this version.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on May 15, 2009, 02:40:09 AM
Most exciting thing if this is real will be cheaper regular PS3s.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 15, 2009, 05:12:48 AM
And subsequently, used PS3 prices would drop like a rock. Probably be able to pick one up for $150 on eBay.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 15, 2009, 07:03:27 AM
Okay, so its a smaller system but with the same great price as the original? *pffft* At least it might save some money off your electric bill, and save you some space for your Bru-ray collection. This will be great especially for Japan, where everyone lives in tiny cubicles.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Plugabugz on May 15, 2009, 07:05:45 AM
Like i said in another thread, i am price sensitive. Sony knows what to do. MAKE ME TINGLE WITH JOY.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NovaQ on May 15, 2009, 07:34:28 AM
Sony has changed the controller significantly once but it's still rare enough occurance that to expect a console maker to do it is unrealistic. I don't think it's fair to crap on Sony for not changing the controller with this console redesign.
The PS3's price is definitely the gorilla in the room when you're talking about things Sony needs to improve on. That Sony refuses to modify the Dual Shock IS a fairly common complaint about Playstation hardware, however, so I don't think it's really too far-out to expect a controller that's different, on an aesthetic level, at least.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 15, 2009, 04:00:55 PM
Now, Nintendo needs to follow suit and come up with a Wii Slim.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 15, 2009, 04:12:12 PM
Now, Nintendo needs to follow suit and come up with a Wii Slim.
You make the Wii any smaller you're gonna have to expose the disc while its spinning. On second thought, that would look pretty cool, and I would probably buy one.
I'm actually waiting for the day when Nintendo tries a Panasonic Q again(would have made more sense this gen than last). maybe a slimline DVD player with a connector for a sensor bar and Wii built in. I would buy that too, as long as basic DVD functions are also usable in the Wiimote itself.
Or to add insult to injury, a Panasonic Wii-ray, Blu-ray player with Wii built in for $399. heads up sales to the PS3 and see who sells more at the price point. I think they outcome would be quite embarrassing for Sony.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 16, 2009, 12:55:25 AM
We shouldn't laugh at Sony with the slim, it is one of the few things that that they innovated, as seen with the PS2 Slim. Oh wait, slimmer consoles are nothing new! Nevermind.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BranDonk Kong on May 16, 2009, 01:08:51 AM
Looks like ****.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 16, 2009, 01:14:14 AM
I can just imagine what the Sony execs were saying.
"Wow that Wii has sure been kicking butt." person 1 states
"I agree, after sinking 100 million in our research study we have determined the reason for that success is that the unit is so small and energy efficient, and not because of the type of market it attracted or its games. Because frankly this generation didn't start until we said so. Our games are NOT THE PROBLEM" person 2 replies
"Godbless Ken for providing us with this amazing study. We shall make a PS3 Slim, people will gobble it up because it is so cute and small. Nintendo thought they had us, but we know their secret now! Also lets prepare Resistance 3 for it, the mid generation generation starts at PS3 Slim's launch. Our competition will not see this coming!" person 1 smiles in glee
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 16, 2009, 10:55:54 AM
We shouldn't laugh at Sony with the slim, it is one of the few things that that they innovated, as seen with the PS2 Slim. Oh wait, slimmer consoles are nothing new! Nevermind.
I think Nintendo started the concept with the Gameboy Pocket, and with that short-lived NES revision.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 16, 2009, 12:58:24 PM
Or to add insult to injury, a Panasonic Wii-ray, Blu-ray player with Wii built in for $399. heads up sales to the PS3 and see who sells more at the price point. I think they outcome would be quite embarrassing for Sony.
I think Sony would be happy with that, they get money from every Blu-ray Disc sold. Sony even said they wouldn't mind if the PS3 tanked if it helped establish Blu-ray Disc as a format. I think Sony would be more than happy wo have a Wii out there with a built-in BD player.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 16, 2009, 01:13:05 PM
Sony even said they wouldn't mind if the PS3 tanked if it helped establish Blu-ray Disc as a format.
And yet they wonder why it's not successful as a game system.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2009, 02:06:44 PM
Sony might be happy that BD get s out there, but the insult would be that Wii could out-sell the PS3 at the same price point with lesser tech to the injury that PS3 sacrificed its affordability for its BD drive. It would be hilarious to watch, even though Sony would sorta get what they want at the end... except for that massive R&D bill for developing CELL when a lil ol Wii did it for a fraction of the cost and a snazzy new controller with tons of peripherals. who wulda thunk?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 16, 2009, 05:40:52 PM
Or to add insult to injury, a Panasonic Wii-ray, Blu-ray player with Wii built in for $399. heads up sales to the PS3 and see who sells more at the price point. I think they outcome would be quite embarrassing for Sony.
It would be even more embarrassing for Sony if Nintendo created a Wii/HD-DVD hybrid which is such a success that it single-handedly reignites the format wars and convinces Toshiba to resurrect the format.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 16, 2009, 07:09:48 PM
hahaha, now that would be even better. They should just license out the Wii tech to Toshiba so they can make it. I would buy one just because.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on May 18, 2009, 11:03:31 PM
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 18, 2009, 11:38:11 PM
Sony better have something better then the PS3 Slim to surprise people at E3. Personally I want to see more information on that large scale online FPS.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 19, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
PS3 Slims come with a free coupon for Taco Bell? Talk about value? Aren't we cool?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 19, 2009, 01:41:04 AM
I mentioned that in the 2nd reply. The cease and desist order was posted on the same site the original pics were leaked on. The pics were removed and on ly the letter remained.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: nickmitch on May 19, 2009, 03:50:07 PM
Gamespot got one, too (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6209940.html) They also add that Sony denied any PS3 revisions, but didn't comment on the cease and desist.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 19, 2009, 04:00:02 PM
To comment is to confirm.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 24, 2009, 05:10:32 PM
There is no way Sony will not drop the price on this. That's the whole point. I figure they've been waiting for their production prices to drop to where they're actually able to maybe break even on the console or sell it at a minimal loss. The fact that they've shrunk everything shows that this thing will have lower production costs, that's for sure. I figure they'll drop it to $299.99 at E3. If they don't, well...they're screwed even more than they are right now, if that's possible.
I don't know why people knock the Sony controllers. They're the best all-around controllers on the market. They work fine for every game type (even first-person shooters), and you never hear people complaining about their D-Pads (like on the 360) or that their hands get tired from holding them up/waggling (Wii Remote/Nunchuck). PS3 controllers aren't doing anything spectacular, but they don't have any glaring negatives either.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: broodwars on May 24, 2009, 05:20:05 PM
I don't know why people knock the Sony controllers. They're the best all-around controllers on the market. They work fine for every game type (even first-person shooters), and you never hear people complaining about their D-Pads (like on the 360) or that their hands get tired from holding them up/waggling (Wii Remote/Nunchuck). PS3 controllers aren't doing anything spectacular, but they don't have any glaring negatives either.
Oh I don't know about that. I despise the PS3 Dualshock's flimsy L2 and R2 triggers. Because they don't have any kind of support on the bottom, every time I press one of them I feel like I'm going to break it. I was playing Bioshock with it a month or so ago, and the triggers just aren't very responsive during high action situations either. Other than that, yeah it's a fine controller.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 24, 2009, 05:20:40 PM
I don't know why people knock the Sony controllers. They're the best all-around controllers on the market.
Could it be because everyone has different-sized hands and differing preferences for comfort? I don't like the PS1/2/3 controller because I find the sticks and many of the buttons to be in positions ranging from mild annoyance (R1 and L1) to exasperatingly uncomfortable (thumb sticks).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 24, 2009, 07:15:43 PM
I don't like the Sony controllers because they place the D-pad before the thumbstick, which if you ask me is a very backwards thinking because virtually every game nowadays relies on the analog stick instead of the D-pad. This isn't the SNES era anymore, and while I know the PS controllers are a blatant ripoff of the SNES controller scheme times have changed... it is long past due for the ps controllers to change as well.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 24, 2009, 07:19:35 PM
I find the PS3 controller to be pretty uncomfortable and clunky. Personally my favorite controller is the 360 one (besides the d-pad which is lame).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2009, 07:27:52 PM
I don't like the Sony controllers because they place the D-pad before the thumbstick, which if you ask me is a very backwards thinking because virtually every game nowadays relies on the analog stick instead of the D-pad. This isn't the SNES era anymore, and while I know the PS controllers are a blatant ripoff of the SNES controller scheme times have changed... it is long past due for the ps controllers to change as well.
Exactly. I hate playing any game that used the analog stick instead of the d-pad because it's annoying to use on the PS3's controller. Lindy, I am of the opinion (and from what I have seen I know most people agree with me) that the Xbox 360's controller is far superior. It's perfect for EVERY type of game (unlike the DualShock 3), and even the d-pad is better than the DualShock 3's 4 little nubs. It may not be the best d-pad, but it's good enough.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 24, 2009, 07:44:38 PM
Does the XBox 360 controller still have a round D-pad like the original XBox controller? Because that thing is stupid.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2009, 08:05:05 PM
Sorta, but it's better than the original Xbox's d-pad.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 24, 2009, 10:21:10 PM
The PS controller's D-Pad isn't even a pad at all. The arrows aren't actually connected... wtf?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 24, 2009, 10:22:11 PM
The PS controller's D-Pad isn't even a pad at all. The arrows aren't actually connected... wtf?
The arrows are connected but the case covers the center of it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on May 24, 2009, 10:38:46 PM
I hate the PS controllers. All of them. One reason, really: the 'x' button being the universal accept/A/go button for it. 'X' for me means to cancel or go back for me. I still can't get fully used to it. Maybe it's due to using Windows for most of OS-with-GUI using life.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: broodwars on May 24, 2009, 10:58:31 PM
I hate the PS controllers. All of them. One reason, really: the 'x' button being the universal accept/A/go button for it. 'X' for me means to cancel or go back for me. I still can't get fully used to it. Maybe it's due to using Windows for most of OS-with-GUI using life.
Different strokes, different folks. I always see 'X' as a targeting icon, with 'O' as meaning "zero" or "nothingness" to be a cancel icon. I still wish that Sony hadn't gone for shapes as their icons, though. Royally ripping off Nintendo's SNES design didn't stop Microsoft from using A, B, X, and Y as their face buttons...even in the exact same spots on the face button section.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 24, 2009, 11:04:45 PM
I can't find a way to hold the PlayStation controller that's not really uncomfortable for me. I suppose I could get used to it eventually but the 360, GC and Wii controllers just fit my hands perfectly with no adjustments.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2009, 11:12:31 PM
Different strokes, different folks. I always see 'X' as a targeting icon, with 'O' as meaning "zero" or "nothingness" to be a cancel icon. I still wish that Sony hadn't gone for shapes as their icons, though. Royally ripping off Nintendo's SNES design didn't stop Microsoft from using A, B, X, and Y as their face buttons...even in the exact same spots on the face button section.
100% agree with me. This is why people who called the Nintendo 64 and GameCube (while being PlayStation gamers) always annoyed the hell out of me. "PlayStation" sounds like a toy made by Playskool or Mattel, and using symbols instead of letters further supports that since it is something you would do for little kids still learning the alphabet.
I also can't get used to the layout, too often I have to look down to remember where Triangle or Square is. A, B, X, Y are so much better.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: broodwars on May 24, 2009, 11:16:32 PM
I also can't get used to the layout, too often I have to look down to remember where Triangle or Square is. A, B, X, Y are so much better.
Yep, that happens to me every time I have to do a Quick Time Event in a PS2/PS3 game. When I'm playing through the game, I just subconsciously assign actions to their corresponding location on the controller. But when the game actually demands that I press that button for a Quick Time Event, I freeze up and have to look down at what button that is (which usually causes me to fail the QT Event). To be fair, this happened to me on GC games as well.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 24, 2009, 11:23:01 PM
At least GameCube games tended to have the buttons on-screen appear in the same shape as on the controller (which helped make it easier to remember where on the controller they were).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: broodwars on May 24, 2009, 11:28:52 PM
At least GameCube games tended to have the buttons on-screen appear in the same shape as on the controller (which helped make it easier to remember where on the controller they were).
Didn't make that damn knife fight in RE4 any easier (where I must have died at least a couple dozen times before I got it right), especially with Capcom randomizing the QT buttons every time you failed. At least in the Wii version that's much easier since just about everything in a QT Event is mapped to either shaking the Wiimote or pressing A+B.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on May 24, 2009, 11:30:25 PM
The GC controller problem was aggravated further when you played 3rd party games that wouldn't translate the buttons properly from PS2-> GC.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: mac<censored> on May 25, 2009, 09:12:05 AM
The GC controller problem was aggravated further when you played 3rd party games that wouldn't translate the buttons properly from PS2-> GC.
Well to be fair, that's not a "GC controller problem", it's a "crappy 3rd-party game problem".
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 25, 2009, 09:40:59 AM
I've always considered the PS controllers to be very functional all-purpose controllers (the L2 and R2 buttons could be better though, you're totally right). The 360 D-pad is awful (especially for fighting games), and I've always considered the controller overall to be a bit bulky.
My favorite all-time controllers are probably SNES. Simple and comfortable.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 25, 2009, 10:04:29 AM
I hate the PS controllers. All of them. One reason, really: the 'x' button being the universal accept/A/go button for it. 'X' for me means to cancel or go back for me. I still can't get fully used to it. Maybe it's due to using Windows for most of OS-with-GUI using life.
In Japan the standard layout is that O confirms, X cancels. For some reason SCEA demanded that to get changed in the west, X became confirm and the cancel button tended to vary from game to game.
At least GameCube games tended to have the buttons on-screen appear in the same shape as on the controller (which helped make it easier to remember where on the controller they were).
Didn't make that damn knife fight in RE4 any easier (where I must have died at least a couple dozen times before I got it right), especially with Capcom randomizing the QT buttons every time you failed. At least in the Wii version that's much easier since just about everything in a QT Event is mapped to either shaking the Wiimote or pressing A+B.
Huh? RE4 only demanded either A+B or L+R from me.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 25, 2009, 11:12:51 AM
Well to be fair, that's not a "GC controller problem", it's a "crappy 3rd-party game problem".
I never got the hate for the GameCube controller. It felt fine to me, the people complaining about the Z-Button were especially annoying as I can't see how anyone would have a problem pressing it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 25, 2009, 11:26:46 AM
My only complaint about the GC controller is the Z button. It should have been placed underneath the controller somehow, like the trigger of a gun, because that's the way the Z button is traditionally used. Putting it up on the shoulder made it more awkward and frustrating to use.
I do think the rest of the GC controller was genius, though. Having the buttons shaped, sized, and colored differently made them much easier to use when you're in the middle of a game. There was much less need for hunting and pecking, and it was very unlikely you would hit the wrong button by mistake.
In controller terms, I would say the GC was the best, then the XBOX and then finally the uninnovative PS2 .
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 25, 2009, 06:24:55 PM
I like how TJ Spyke ended his post with "the people complaining about the Z-Button were especially annoying as I can't see how anyone would have a problem pressing it" and then Chozo Ghost's post starts with "My only complaint about the GC controller is the Z button." I just found that to be rather humourous for some reason...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: broodwars on May 25, 2009, 06:43:14 PM
The GC Z-button's problem wasn't that it was up on the shoulders. It was that the damn thing was tiny and didn't press far in so it actually hurt my hand to use.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2009, 07:40:25 PM
Quote
you never hear people complaining about their D-Pads
I thought this was one of the big complaints about Playstation controllers. The splite d-pad makes it easier to get blisters.
Quote
I don't like the Sony controllers because they place the D-pad before the thumbstick, which if you ask me is a very backwards thinking because virtually every game nowadays relies on the analog stick instead of the D-pad.
I used to think this but I now think d-pad centric is the way to go. I've noticed that playing a d-pad game with an off-center d-pad is a HUGE pain in the ass but playing an analog stick game with an off-center stick is, while not as good as having the stick in the primary position, is only somewhat annoying and is overall much easier to adapt to. Ideally whatever the game needs is what you would prefer to have in the main slot but moving your thumb over to control the analog stick is less sucky than doing the same for the d-pad, so d-pad wins by default. After all the second analog stick on most controllers is always off-center and no one has a problem with that.
Regarding the Cube controller, it is easily the most ergonomic controller I've ever used. But it was still really flawed. The z-button sucked because it was hard to push and unlike the rest of the controller wasn't egonomically placed. The d-pad was small and pretty much completely useless as an actual d-pad. The reasons for those are obvious. Nintendo themselves admitted that both parts were put on at the request of third parties. So Nintendo just threw them on without putting any real effort or thought into their design. It's obvious that the shitty d-pad was picked because the GBA used the same one so they would only have to make one (which in retrospect provided no real cost savings since they later changed the GBA d-pad with the SP and thus had to make two anyway).
I also didn't care for the button layout. Yeah it was easy to locate what button was where but it was against the conventional standards (that Nintendo themselves invented in the first place) and that made some third party games control like crap because they were designed for the PS2 or Xbox controller. Why have the oddball controller when it provides such minor improvements at best and potentially causes control issues for games not designed specifically with it in mind? Nintendo touted the button layout as being more intuitive for players as if figuring out what button is what is a HUGE obstacle for gamers. It seemed like Nintendo was providing a solution for a fictional problem they themselves made up. With that and their justification for making the Wii controller look like a TV remote you get the feeling they REALLY don't give the general public much credit. ;) Somehow we all can drive cars but having face buttons in a diamond shape is just TOO DAMN CONFUSING.
Nintendo has a tendency to do things for themselves without thinking outside their little bubble and the Cube controller was reflective of that. It was amazing for what Nintendo wanted to do but for anything else it was restrictive.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Plugabugz on May 25, 2009, 08:34:01 PM
Somehow we all can drive cars but having face buttons in a diamond shape is just TOO DAMN CONFUSING.
I was in a car that had buttons on the dash, centre console, underneath the gear switch, on the windows AND the steering wheel. Wow.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 25, 2009, 10:27:29 PM
Unless you are using your middle finger to press the R-button, I don't see how pressing the Z-button is hard on the GameCube controller. It takes no more effort than the shoulder buttons on the PlayStation and Xbox controllers.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on May 25, 2009, 11:51:38 PM
Unless you are using your middle finger to press the R-button, I don't see how pressing the Z-button is hard on the GameCube controller. It takes no more effort than the shoulder buttons on the PlayStation and Xbox controllers.
I never had much of an issue with the Z button as well. Then I realized, how many games used it at all, let alone enough, to get used to it. Maybe I don't mind it that much because I rarely used it in games.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 26, 2009, 01:24:45 AM
Super Smash Brothers Melee would be a little easier if it weren't for the GCN controller's analogue L/R buttons and stubby Z button. Whoever says the placement of the Z button is ergonomically designed clearly doesn't have dainty hands, plus the spring is very dull. I also don't think it is possible to press both Z and R at the same time unless you use two fingers, which is pretty awkward.
Were there even any games which used the analogue function of the L/R buttons? I can't think of any besides Luigi's Mansion and SSBMelee, the latter of which was hindered by it...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2009, 02:10:59 AM
Rogue Squadrons and Burnouts.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2009, 10:49:56 AM
I always saw the Z button as the replacement to the select button.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2009, 11:34:05 AM
It was my throw button in Melee.
Now the GameCube controller is obsolete.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2009, 12:40:58 PM
Quote
Were there even any games which used the analogue function of the L/R buttons?
Super Mario Sunshine. It and Rogue Leader are the only games I can think of that used the little digital click. Neat idea but realistically you probably could have done the same thing with something like the classic controller's L/R buttons (which I'm assuming are analog since they have such a squishy feel).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2009, 01:10:55 PM
digital click =/= analog
The Star Wars Rogue Skwod games, Mario Sunshine, Burnout 2 used the analog triggers for actual ANALOG pressure-sensitive input.
Games people easily forget that used the Digital Click include:
all for the same function: switching locked-on targets
Those used the digital click? I just figured they required you to push the button which would logically mean the digital click would be pushed as well. Couldn't you have done those with a digital button? In my mind if it didn't use both the analog input and the click then it didn't really use the click, it was just pushing the button.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2009, 03:25:33 PM
I never ever ever clicked on the triggers all the way down unless I needed to use the click, which I was aware of ahead of time cuz Control Schemes are one of the first things I familiarize myself with when trying any new game. It saved me some finger cramping since I didn't have to apply so much pressure all the time.
The rationale for target-switching was to allow you to maintain your temporary lock-strafe (combat) orientation as you switch between targets. Twilight Princess on Wii only halfway remedies this by requiring a quick tap of the Z-trigger; by letting go of the button you risk a brief disorietation (camera & controls) since the control scheme changes for an instant (strafing vs. simple directional running).
I found the click helpful in the first two Metroid Primes, since the first person view only highlighted the sluggishness of the "tank" stick control. MP3 and BWii don't need this anymore since the IR Pointer allows you to lead to a target before locking on.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 26, 2009, 07:37:17 PM
I'd trade all of that to not have the analogue L/R buttons hinder SSBMelee.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2009, 07:38:49 PM
They never hindered it. Something wrong on your end?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on May 26, 2009, 07:43:59 PM
You have to press the L/R buttons all of the way down until it clicks in order to use the air dodge, which is pretty annoying. The same goes for using the Power Shield technique (deflecting a projectile), and if you didn't press the button in fast enough then you'd raise the shield too early and it wouldn't work.
The shield's size was also dependent on how far down you pressed the button; the further you pressed it in, the smaller your shield would be and the faster it would shrink. There was no advantage for having the smaller shield so it made no sense.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: mac<censored> on May 26, 2009, 08:14:45 PM
you never hear people complaining about their D-Pads
I thought this was one of the big complaints about Playstation controllers. The splite d-pad makes it easier to get blisters.
Yeah, the PS dpad is one of the most awful out there -- I had very painful experiences back in the PS1 days.
What's simply bizarre is that Sony has retained this horrible, horrible, dpad, in the sweet spot on all their controllers, for 15 years. Even worse, Sony made exactly the same idiotic control mistakes with the PSP (which is a new system with a different control scheme, so much less affected by compatibility concerns) -- an awful dpad, in the "main position", and an awkwardly-placed analog controller seemingly tossed in at the last moment as an afterthought.
These things have convinced me that Sony simply doesn't understand controllers, or their importance for video-gaming. That's pretty pathetic for one of the biggest video-game manufacturers on the planet. Given SCE and Kutaragi's historical obsession with flash and marketing over substance, though, it's not all that surprising I suppose.
Quote
I used to think this but I now think d-pad centric is the way to go. I've noticed that playing a d-pad game with an off-center d-pad is a HUGE pain in the ass but playing an analog stick game with an off-center stick is, while not as good as having the stick in the primary position, is only somewhat annoying and is overall much easier to adapt to. Ideally whatever the game needs is what you would prefer to have in the main slot but moving your thumb over to control the analog stick is less sucky than doing the same for the d-pad, so d-pad wins by default. After all the second analog stick on most controllers is always off-center and no one has a problem with that.
Given that like 95% of games are analogue centric -- and playing dpad-centric games on Sony's insane dpad is such an awful experience -- that's a very unconvincing argument.
Better to simply have separate controllers available for those people who are really into dpad-centric games, and optimize for the overwhelmingly common case of analogue-centric games.
I think the GC controller is my favorite overall; it has its flaws (z button), but in general, it's a fantasticaly ergonomic controller. You can really tell from using it how much research and care they put into its design (pretty much the polar opposite of Sony's controllers).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mikintosh on May 27, 2009, 12:07:46 PM
You have to press the L/R buttons all of the way down until it clicks in order to use the air dodge, which is pretty annoying. The same goes for using the Power Shield technique (deflecting a projectile), and if you didn't press the button in fast enough then you'd raise the shield too early and it wouldn't work.
The shield's size was also dependent on how far down you pressed the button; the further you pressed it in, the smaller your shield would be and the faster it would shrink. There was no advantage for having the smaller shield so it made no sense.
I thought the larger shell was weaker, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I've never had any problem doing air dodging, which is the only "pro" technique I bother to use. And someone above was saying they couldn't press R and Z at the same time...but why would you ever have to do this?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on May 27, 2009, 12:48:52 PM
Quote
Given that like 95% of games are analogue centric -- and playing dpad-centric games on Sony's insane dpad is such an awful experience -- that's a very unconvincing argument.
The fact that Sony's d-pad sucks is irrelevent to the discussion. I'm not talking about Sony's controller as much as controllers in general and what design would make sense if you were in charge of designing one from scratch. For me d-pad centric is the way to go and obviously the d-pad should be comfortable. But I think a good controller should be compatible with as many types of games as possible and analog centric doesn't do that. To me digital vs. analog is a lot like 2D vs. 3D. Neither one is better and the newer design isn't a replacement for the old. Some types of games work best with a d-pad.
I just find that if the d-pad isn't in the center then it's almost completely useless. If you're going to put on the controller in the first place you have to make it useful.
Though I'm quite certain that Sony is just sticking with the tried and true because it worked for so long. They just did a real lousy copy of the SNES controller and then became the market leader so they probably figured "why mess with this?"
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 27, 2009, 02:24:13 PM
The fact that Sony's d-pad sucks is irrelevent to the discussion. I'm not talking about Sony's controller as much as controllers in general and what design would make sense if you were in charge of designing one from scratch. For me d-pad centric is the way to go and obviously the d-pad should be comfortable. But I think a good controller should be compatible with as many types of games as possible and analog centric doesn't do that. To me digital vs. analog is a lot like 2D vs. 3D. Neither one is better and the newer design isn't a replacement for the old. Some types of games work best with a d-pad.
Doesn't this make the N64 controller the best of both worlds? It can be either Analog stick centric or D-pad centric depending on how you hold it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2009, 02:27:22 PM
Combining the three-prong layout of the N64 controller with the button layout, second analog stick and ergonomic design of the GameCube pad would create an amazing controller.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 27, 2009, 02:30:18 PM
And it'd have 6 prongs and 4 sticks.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 27, 2009, 02:37:50 PM
What's simply bizarre is that Sony has retained this horrible, horrible, dpad, in the sweet spot on all their controllers, for 15 years. Even worse, Sony made exactly the same idiotic control mistakes with the PSP (which is a new system with a different control scheme, so much less affected by compatibility concerns) -- an awful dpad, in the "main position", and an awkwardly-placed analog controller seemingly tossed in at the last moment as an afterthought.
I think the reason for the lack of imagination or innovation in Sony's controllers probably has a lot to do with video games being a major after thought to the company. They started out making TVs and VCRs and crap like that, and that's what drives their thinking even today. They really shouldn't be in the video gaming industry at all, and the reason they are is because of their work with Nintendo on that SNES CD addon which never came about, and this was repackaged and released as the PS1 which was successful because of good timing, luck, and stupidity of Nintendo and other companies in that era. So they really shouldn't be in the industry at all, and their dominance of being the market leader has been a position they never really deserved because its all based on ripping off Nintendo's ideas and being lucky.
But I would beat that the Sony executives don't actually even play video games, not even their own. They are more concerned about Blu-ray and other consumer electronics and the PS3 was just a means to an end, with that end being Blu-ray winning over HD-DVD. Well, they've achieved that end (unfortunately) but the cost was them dropping from 1st place to 3rd place in the console wars.
But I don't think they really even care... Sony treats its fans as cows for them to milk off of, which is also true of Nintendo somewhat, but at least Nintendo is completely game oriented and actually invests in innovative control methods and game concepts. Every Nintendo system has seen a different controller setup than the last. When the Wii 2 comes out you can be sure that it will feature some new controller method, but as for the PS4 its probably going to be the same boring old Dualshock/SIXAXIS piece of crap that they've stuck with since they ripped the idea off of the SNES.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on May 27, 2009, 02:39:37 PM
No, but it would probably need 2 D-Pads, something the people who love to bash Nintendo would be quick to point out is a blatant ripoff of the WonderSwan.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 27, 2009, 03:21:37 PM
Back when there was heavy speculation for the Revolution & its controller, I always imagined a GC style controller with a rotatable left side so you could put either the d-pad or the analog stick in the dominant position. Same goes for the buttons & 2nd joystick on the right side. & replace that retarded yellow nub with an actual thumb stick.
I would also imagine two analog triggers on either side positioned for the middle fingers to use in their natural position, with the L & R buttons up on top like normal. Z button was out of place for comfortable use on the GC pad. I think that would be a perfect way to blend the GC & N64 pads.
Also makes it the most customizable pad for every type of game.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2009, 03:27:00 PM
To take that a step further, why not make it so it separates in the middle into 2 parts, one for each hand, each containing an accelerometer, gyroscope, and infrared pointer.
We've just created the concept for the most expensive game controller ever.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 27, 2009, 03:32:27 PM
If you guys keep this truth in mind, you will never wonder about Sony's design decisions:
They don't innovate until someone else does it first and they can copy them (if it is a stand out concept like the analog stick or ::shudders:: motion control).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on May 27, 2009, 03:35:35 PM
I usually hate Sony's tendency to rip off other companies' ideas, but I am 100% in favor of them ripping off the GameCube or Xbox 360 controller in terms of layout and ergonomics.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on May 27, 2009, 03:46:09 PM
What's simply bizarre is that Sony has retained this horrible, horrible, dpad, in the sweet spot on all their controllers, for 15 years. Even worse, Sony made exactly the same idiotic control mistakes with the PSP (which is a new system with a different control scheme, so much less affected by compatibility concerns) -- an awful dpad, in the "main position", and an awkwardly-placed analog controller seemingly tossed in at the last moment as an afterthought.
I think the reason for the lack of imagination or innovation in Sony's controllers probably has a lot to do with video games being a major after thought to the company. They started out making TVs and VCRs and crap like that, and that's what drives their thinking even today. They really shouldn't be in the video gaming industry at all, and the reason they are is because of their work with Nintendo on that SNES CD addon which never came about, and this was repackaged and released as the PS1 which was successful because of good timing, luck, and stupidity of Nintendo and other companies in that era. So they really shouldn't be in the industry at all, and their dominance of being the market leader has been a position they never really deserved because its all based on ripping off Nintendo's ideas and being lucky.
But I would beat that the Sony executives don't actually even play video games, not even their own. They are more concerned about Blu-ray and other consumer electronics and the PS3 was just a means to an end, with that end being Blu-ray winning over HD-DVD. Well, they've achieved that end (unfortunately) but the cost was them dropping from 1st place to 3rd place in the console wars.
But I don't think they really even care... Sony treats its fans as cows for them to milk off of, which is also true of Nintendo somewhat, but at least Nintendo is completely game oriented and actually invests in innovative control methods and game concepts. Every Nintendo system has seen a different controller setup than the last. When the Wii 2 comes out you can be sure that it will feature some new controller method, but as for the PS4 its probably going to be the same boring old Dualshock/SIXAXIS piece of crap that they've stuck with since they ripped the idea off of the SNES. [/quote]
It's only stupid looking back. If you go back and check out what the situation was at the time you would have done the same thing as Nintendo. Sony would have had total freedom over games released on the CD-ROM add-on and made money from games released for it (even Nintendo's). Sony has did not have a good record as a developer as most of the games they had published had been pretty bad. The deal with Philips would have been better for them.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 27, 2009, 03:53:30 PM
What's simply bizarre is that Sony has retained this horrible, horrible, dpad, in the sweet spot on all their controllers, for 15 years. Even worse, Sony made exactly the same idiotic control mistakes with the PSP (which is a new system with a different control scheme, so much less affected by compatibility concerns) -- an awful dpad, in the "main position", and an awkwardly-placed analog controller seemingly tossed in at the last moment as an afterthought.
I think the reason for the lack of imagination or innovation in Sony's controllers probably has a lot to do with video games being a major after thought to the company. They started out making TVs and VCRs and crap like that, and that's what drives their thinking even today. They really shouldn't be in the video gaming industry at all, and the reason they are is because of their work with Nintendo on that SNES CD addon which never came about, and this was repackaged and released as the PS1 which was successful because of good timing, luck, and stupidity of Nintendo and other companies in that era. So they really shouldn't be in the industry at all, and their dominance of being the market leader has been a position they never really deserved because its all based on ripping off Nintendo's ideas and being lucky.
But I would beat that the Sony executives don't actually even play video games, not even their own. They are more concerned about Blu-ray and other consumer electronics and the PS3 was just a means to an end, with that end being Blu-ray winning over HD-DVD. Well, they've achieved that end (unfortunately) but the cost was them dropping from 1st place to 3rd place in the console wars.
But I don't think they really even care... Sony treats its fans as cows for them to milk off of, which is also true of Nintendo somewhat, but at least Nintendo is completely game oriented and actually invests in innovative control methods and game concepts. Every Nintendo system has seen a different controller setup than the last. When the Wii 2 comes out you can be sure that it will feature some new controller method, but as for the PS4 its probably going to be the same boring old Dualshock/SIXAXIS piece of crap that they've stuck with since they ripped the idea off of the SNES.
It's only stupid looking back. If you go back and check out what the situation was at the time you would have done the same thing as Nintendo. Sony would have had total freedom over games released on the CD-ROM add-on and made money from games released for it (even Nintendo's). Sony has did not have a good record as a developer as most of the games they had published had been pretty bad. The deal with Philips would have been better for them.
I'm sorry but I had to fix that for you, i thought I was having a case of dejavu.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NWR_Lindy on May 29, 2009, 11:31:31 AM
My ruthless, money-grubbing corporation can beat up your ruthless, money-grubbing corporation.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 29, 2009, 11:57:54 AM
Oh yeah! Well my money-grubbin corporation is more ruthless than your money-grubbin corporation.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on May 29, 2009, 04:26:00 PM
Oh yeah! Well my money-grubbin corporation is more ruthless than your money-grubbin corporation.
Not to mention mine can innovate!
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2009, 01:37:17 PM
Now that we know the PSPGo is gonna cost TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY US DOLLARS, what do you think that means for a PS3Slim?
$499.99? $449.99? $399.99?
Place your bets people.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: vudu on June 03, 2009, 01:50:16 PM
Same price. They're not adding anything to the PS3 Slim, right? Then why would it be more? The only reason the PSPGo is to freaking much is because of the 16 GB of RAM.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 03, 2009, 01:54:52 PM
"They're not adding anything to the PS3 Slim, right?"
They're adding improvements.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2009, 01:55:35 PM
16 gigs of Ram aint that expensive... well not it they went with SD flash instead of Memstick flash. And the fact that they got rid of the UMD drive and slimmed down the overall package using a smaller screen and everything, you think it would have cost the same too.
Besides we all know Sony like to charge a premium for anything that it can (Memstick, PSPGo, PS3, Vaio, Bravia), so why would PS3slim be any different?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: vudu on June 03, 2009, 02:26:56 PM
Besides we all know Sony like to charge a premium for anything that it can (Memstick, PSPGo, PS3, Vaio, Bravia), so why would PS3slim be any different?
Was the PSOne more expensive than the original PlayStation? No. Why the PS3 Slimline more expensive then the original PS2? No.
So why would the PS3 Slim be any more expensive than the PS3?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 03, 2009, 03:08:39 PM
Because regardless of all the positive sales talk and "record sales" from the conference, Sony posted its first loss in 14 years and needs money. PSPGo got reset to original PSP launch price, but I'm not expecting that with the PS3 slim.
Besides, I didn't didn't even state a price for the PS3slim, just listed out some options, but the PS3 is $399 right now and most people find that too expensive especially in this WW economy, so launching the PS3slim at the same premium price isn't really gonna help anybody change their mind unless they lower the price of the old PS3 to push them out the door.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 03, 2009, 04:31:53 PM
Because regardless of all the positive sales talk and "record sales" from the conference, Sony posted its first loss in 14 years and needs money. PSPGo got reset to original PSP launch price, but I'm not expecting that with the PS3 slim.
Besides, I didn't didn't even state a price for the PS3slim, just listed out some options, but the PS3 is $399 right now and most people find that too expensive especially in this WW economy, so launching the PS3slim at the same premium price isn't really gonna help anybody change their mind unless they lower the price of the old PS3 to push them out the door.
Sony doesn't need to adjust their price, their STELLAR lineup like Ice Age will sell systems all by itself.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 03, 2009, 11:07:59 PM
Because regardless of all the positive sales talk and "record sales" from the conference, Sony posted its first loss in 14 years and needs money. PSPGo got reset to original PSP launch price, but I'm not expecting that with the PS3 slim.
Besides, I didn't didn't even state a price for the PS3slim, just listed out some options, but the PS3 is $399 right now and most people find that too expensive especially in this WW economy, so launching the PS3slim at the same premium price isn't really gonna help anybody change their mind unless they lower the price of the old PS3 to push them out the door.
Sony doesn't need to adjust their price, their STELLAR lineup like Ice Age will sell systems all by itself.
They need MGS5 to save them. Since the 360 MGS wasn't MGS4 I need to get a PS3 at some point.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 04, 2009, 10:36:58 PM
Sony must make some more Spider Man movies so they can bundle them with this new revision. That was the only way they were able to make the PSP and the PS3 the success that they are. Then they can also generate some controversy (and thus sales) by coming out with a "PS3 Slim White" and launching a racist ad campaign showing skinny white models next to overweight black women just like they did with the PSP White.
If they do this, and continue to harp on the system's blu-ray capability and maybe toss in a new DVR feature the PS3 will be wiping the floor with the Wii in no time! They will be so successful that they can actually increase the price instead of lowering.
/Sarcasm
Now I'm just joking, but in all seriousness the Sony executives at their board meetings probably really are thinking along these lines.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Deguello on June 04, 2009, 11:58:35 PM
My ruthless, money-grubbing corporation can beat up your ruthless, money-grubbing corporation.
Not really sure what's "ruthless" about having a popular product that sells for profit, or how the other company can be seen as "money-grubbing" when it's swirling in the bowl. Doesn't "money-grubbing" imply concern over profits above all else?
I'd also be careful about this sort of detached outlook, because it makes points raised from the perspective of a fan seem hollow.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 05, 2009, 12:02:37 AM
My ruthless, money-grubbing corporation can beat up your ruthless, money-grubbing corporation.
Not really sure what's "ruthless" about having a popular product that sells for profit, or how the other company can be seen as "money-grubbing" when it's swirling in the bowl. Doesn't "money-grubbing" imply concern over profits above all else?
I'd also be careful about this sort of detached outlook, because it makes points raised from the perspective of a fan seem hollow.
internet is serious business...?
I think all the rest of just took it as a joke post...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Deguello on June 05, 2009, 01:46:55 AM
It is... getting... increasingly hard to tell if somebody is being sarcastic or not on the internet. I just can't tell.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 05, 2009, 02:25:18 AM
I love my work.
Title: PS3 Slim Confirmed
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2009, 10:17:26 AM
Interview with John Koller, a Sony Executive. PS3 Slim Confirmed? Thats what it sounds like to me.
Quote from: Ars Technica
The one rumor that was floating around the gaming press before E3 that didn't come true was the possibility of the PS3 slim being announced. We say it's coming in a few months, once Sony has cleared the retail channels of the existing hardware. We asked Sony's director of Hardware Marketing, John Koller, about the rumor, and he had some words for the "story."
"If [the coverage] focuses more on leaks or what may or may not happen then yes, there is a certain amount of frustration. I think we have a tremendous story to tell today, and I think the path that we're trying to lead is much different than Microsoft or Nintendo. We view a little bit of a different future," Koller told Ars. "Who's going to get to the future first? I think that's a more interesting story than 'I found some packaging in China that may or may not...' you know, personally I don't see that as a story."
"I'd love to live in a world with fewer leaks and more meat," he continued, and that was that. It was fascinating to watch his body language when I brought up the PS3 Slim, we were having a friendly conversation, and when we started talking about that piece of hardware his face closed, he leaned away from me... it became almost adversarial until we got onto a subject that's not as loaded.
Our opinion? The PS3 has gone through some significant changes since launch, and it's not unfair for people about to spend $400 on a console to be interested in what may be coming down the line in a few months. With the majority of the leaks and rumors hitting the gaming and mainstream media before E3 becoming factual now, this is a story, whether or not Sony would like us to focus on it.
And you wonder why companies employees are instructed to take the "No Comment" or " We don't comment on rumors" approach.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 10, 2009, 11:01:28 AM
Misleading to say it's confirmed. He is basically saying that speculation is frustrating.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 10, 2009, 11:51:02 AM
But he basically confirmed it by talking about how the leak of it was frustrating. Did you not catch that?
Why would he call them leaks if they weren't real? He would have called them fakes, as referring to them as leaks only implies that they are not fakes. And his frustrations come from having to downplay something they haven't officially revealed yet instead of discussing that they just announced. Its frustrating to have to put the new announced product as an afterthought in the conversation instead of the "leaked" product that "may" or "may not" exist. Its really not that hard to read between the lines on this one.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 10, 2009, 12:03:53 PM
Wii's version of a hardware revision is changing the paint job. Take that, non-competitively priced highly disappointing console.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 10, 2009, 02:32:35 PM
I'm curious to see what this will really do with backwards compatibility.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NovaQ on June 10, 2009, 02:36:27 PM
PS3 Slim will be backwards compatible with most PS3 games!
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 10, 2009, 02:40:21 PM
I may just have to hunt down one of the old ones that has full PS2 backwards ciompatibility.
Hey, that's not a bad idea. Maybe by the time the Slim comes out (well, "if," technically), those older PS2-compatible models will be cheaper.
If anything they will become more expensive since PS2 owners would probably prefer to get rid of their PS2 system if they choose to get a PS3 but would want to keep their games.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NovaQ on June 11, 2009, 09:32:11 AM
I may just have to hunt down one of the old ones that has full PS2 backwards ciompatibility.
Hey, that's not a bad idea. Maybe by the time the Slim comes out (well, "if," technically), those older PS2-compatible models will be cheaper.
If anything they will become more expensive since PS2 owners would probably prefer to get rid of their PS2 system if they choose to get a PS3 but would want to keep their games.
Dang, you're probably right.
Well, what if I put my fingers in my ears and go, "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA"?
Wait, dang, I just read this using my eyes. Um...
Dang.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 11, 2009, 03:33:59 PM
I don't think it will be that bad. PS3's are in pretty low demand so there are probably plenty available or will be available on the cheap.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: carolina17 on June 29, 2009, 04:35:35 AM
PS2 compatibility might improve with the new PS3 slim. I would wait if I were you. I don't like to buy used consoles. A price cut would be welcome for the holiday season.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 29, 2009, 04:48:03 AM
PS2 compatibility might improve with the new PS3 slim. I would wait if I were you. I don't like to buy used consoles. A price cut would be welcome for the holiday season.
By the time I have enough money to buy one the Slimm probably will be out.
I'm OK with buying used consoles, but only non-Nintendo ones since I buy almost all Nintendo systems at or near launch.
Also, I notice you're pretty new. Welcome to the forums! :)
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: EasyCure on June 29, 2009, 09:29:33 AM
PS2 compatibility might improve with the new PS3 slim. I would wait if I were you. I don't like to buy used consoles. A price cut would be welcome for the holiday season.
By the time I have enough money to buy one the Slimm probably will be out.
I'm OK with buying used consoles, but only non-Nintendo ones since I buy almost all Nintendo systems at or near launch.
Also, I notice you're pretty new. Welcome to the forums! :)
You're forgetting the obligatory link to the "Welcome new internet friend" thread... stupid noob :P
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 29, 2009, 02:48:37 PM
I let them find that. Why didn't you link to it, hm?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: EasyCure on June 29, 2009, 03:54:53 PM
I let them find that. Why didn't you link to it, hm?
Waiting for you to edit your post to include it too lazy
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 29, 2009, 04:01:25 PM
Now you both FAIL X2
please report to the "I'm an internet failure" thread immediately.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 29, 2009, 04:02:30 PM
Were both just too lazy. You do it BnM.
I'd rather report to the firing squad in Conduit. You game?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 29, 2009, 04:03:55 PM
Well here it is :P (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=1830.1900)
Sorry, Carolina, that you had to see that (not really, we tend to be like this all the time) but feel free to hop into that thread and introduce yourself so we can ask you questions about what games you like and get to know you better.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: EasyCure on June 29, 2009, 04:17:31 PM
Sounds like they spent a lot of money to make something they should've had 3 years ago.
Gee, just what Sony needs, more development costs to claw back from the few people buying ps3s...!
Price cut, here we come ... in 2015...!
I decided a long time ago that there's no way I'm buying a PS3 unless it's $250 or less; I'm not willing to suffer for SCE's endless dysfunction and development fuckups.
[BTW any sign that SCE has gotten better since losing Kutaragi? I've lost contact with my internal source in SCE ...]
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 29, 2009, 08:12:19 PM
Everyone who bought a PS3 between its launch and the release of this are going to be pissed off that they spent so much for something that isn't as good.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 29, 2009, 08:14:31 PM
I thought the original PS3 released did have some type of backwards compatibility and then they removed it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Deguello on June 29, 2009, 09:03:16 PM
SCE lost nearly $600 million in the Holiday Quarter last year. So I don't think things look too rosy over there right now.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 29, 2009, 09:25:34 PM
So you're saying, Sony just lost out on ONE HUNDRED 6-Million-Dollar Mans?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 29, 2009, 11:47:21 PM
Meh, Sony can afford those kinds of loses. They made billions from the PS2, right?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 29, 2009, 11:50:09 PM
That's gone already.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 12:08:16 AM
Hell, by the end of 2007 the video game division of Sony had already lost all the profits they had made with the PS2. Sony as whole (meaning not just SCE, but also adding in the TV/camera/movie/etc. divisions) lost over $1 billion last quarter.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 12:08:31 AM
They spent it all to make Blue-Ray the HD format of choice. The question it if they can hold together while waiting for that to pay out.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 12:22:59 AM
I don't think them winning the Blu-ray war really matters because it seems like most consumers are perfectly content with their DVDs. Blur-ray will end up being like Laser-Disc and Super Audio CDs, by which I mean they will be niche products for technophiles and for the rich but they just won't catch on with the mainstream.
Hell, most people don't even have HD tvs. They either can't afford it, or are content with what they have. There's absolutely no point in having a Blur-ray player (or even PS3 for that matter) if you just have a Standard defniiton TV.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 12:26:19 AM
I guess Sony is not doing a good job of educating people on "Blu-ray Disc" (which is they say is the correct way to spell it, including the "Disc" part).
I like all of the extra features on Blu-ray Discs, but the real reason (not just lack of HDTV's in homes) I think most people are not adopting Blu-ray Disc yet is because they are over-priced. There is no valid reason for a new movie to be priced at $25 (yet alone $30 or even $40 like I have seen some movies on BD). The average consumer sees the DVD version at about $15 and the BD version at $30, which do you think they will buy? At least Disney has come up with a good idea by releasing all of their titles in a DVD/BD/Digital copy combo package.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on June 30, 2009, 12:31:00 AM
Don't forget boxed sets of television shows, those are $100 or more on Blu-ray whereas they are $50 or less on DVD. And a lot of shows aren't even available on Blu-ray and probably never will be.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 12:44:51 AM
True, but to be fair Blu-ray players are reverse compatible with DVD so that isn't the same problem that VHS programs not being available on DVD was...
And to this day there are STILL many things only available on VHS. They probably always will be...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 12:54:19 AM
Don't forgot licensing. The Blu-ray Disc version of "Total Recall" is actually inferior to the DVD version since it lacks the audio commentary by the director and Arnold (since the distributor didn't want to pay Arnold another $100,000 like they had to in order to get him on the DVD commentary).
There are some odd decisions too. Fox has released seasons 1 and 3 of Prison Break on BD, but not season 2. Season 12 of South Park is $85 on BD (although walmart.com has it on sale for $46.86).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 02:02:55 AM
True, but to be fair Blu-ray players are reverse compatible with DVD so that isn't the same problem that VHS programs not being available on DVD was...
And to this day there are STILL many things only available on VHS. They probably always will be...
Poor Angus. My friends favorite movie because he relates so much to it. We watch it every year for his birthday and it has never had a DVD release.
There are some odd decisions too. Fox has released seasons 1 and 3 of Prison Break on BD, but not season 2. Season 12 of South Park is $85 on BD (although walmart.com has it on sale for $46.86).
Are you sure that's not a fluke? Is that a store price or Amazon's price? Because sometimes Amazon will feature marketplace seller who overcharge for the product. Sometimes you can still see the Amazon one for sal at a cheaper price but you have to look under the different sellers.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 02:23:20 AM
Poor Angus. My friends favorite movie because he relates so much to it. We watch it every year for his birthday and it has never had a DVD release.
Also my "Dinosaurs!" VHS featuring a very young Fred Savage. I 'm pretty sure that hasn't been upgraded to DVD, and probably never will. Things like this are the only reason I still keep a VCR around..
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 02:33:32 AM
That show was hilarious. "I'm the baby!"
It is too bad, really. Over the ages movies have suffered from this. There are many classics from the early days of film that are now lost forever due to confusion and copyright issues.
The same problem is now happening to games as well. Old liscenced games and other old titles are not legally able to be released on digital services and run the risk of being lost forever as well.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 02:57:02 AM
True, but to be fair Blu-ray players are reverse compatible with DVD so that isn't the same problem that VHS programs not being available on DVD was...
This only makes Blu-ray seem all the more worthless. DVD is a clear improvement over VHS, so much so that some people even replaced their VHS collections with DVDs. But if it isn't worth it for people to replace DVDs with Blu-ray then does it really offer any worthwhile improvement?
At best Blu-ray will co-exist with DVD until a real next-generation format is released but it will never replace it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: KDR_11k on June 30, 2009, 03:41:43 AM
Everyone who bought a PS3 between its launch and the release of this are going to be pissed off that they spent so much for something that isn't as good.
It sounds like it will be all software emulation, so there's no reason why older PS3's wouldn't be able to download a firmware update to add PS2 functionality.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 01:54:02 PM
You guys are talking about the patenting of the software emulation of the EE right? Hasn't the PS3 done that from the beginning? Isn't it the GPU that they need to emulate(that was included in the 1st PS3's) to have proper PS2 BC?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 30, 2009, 05:40:43 PM
You guys are talking about the patenting of the software emulation of the EE right? Hasn't the PS3 done that from the beginning? Isn't it the GPU that they need to emulate(that was included in the 1st PS3's) to have proper PS2 BC?
The 60 and 20GB PS3s had proper PS2 hardware in it that Sony used to run PS2 games on a PS3. The 80GB PS3 with 4 USB slots and memory card slots had BC on partial PS2 hardware and a mix of general software emulation. All PS3 models with only 2 USB ports and no memory card slots has no PS2 hardware inside which eliminates any backwards compatibility. So that's your key difference BnM. Nintendo and Sony always relied on hardware to pull off backwards compatibility, Microsoft relied on software emulation unfortunately the jump from nVidia to ATi and from Intel to IBM didn't bode well for Microsoft and made such an uphill battle that they gave up on updating BC.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 05:53:26 PM
It's funny how BC has become such an issue this generation. I recall some poeple near the end of the last gen that were saying BC was a declining need and not that big of a deal. But here it looks like removing it hurt a lot of the chances PS2 owners would jump up to the PS3. Unwise, I say, to alienate such a large userbase like that, especially when BC has pretty much become a standard now.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 06:29:31 PM
Well what I'm saying is that Sony had the original PS3 that had the EE & GS inside. Ten Sony revised the hardware and took out the EE as they started to emulate it with cell, and then there were lots of BC problems as plenty of games weren't working correctly. Now Sony has the current PS3 w/o the EE and the GS and there is NO BC at all.
This just looks like they are finally getting the patent for the previous EE emulation that was accomplished years ago. Once they get some GS simulation on the RSX then they will have full software BC on all PS3's.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 07:04:34 PM
Microsoft had no choice but to use software emulation. By switching chip makers they couldn't use hardware emulation. I just wish they hadn't abandoned updating the BC list, I want to be able to play TimeSplitters 2 again. I don't want to have to get the GameCube version (which had longer loading times than the Xbox version).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 07:21:41 PM
I don't recall the GC version's loading times being bad at all. Are you sure it isn't a negligeble difference?
Then again it has been ages since I played that game. I sold it off back in the day.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 07:33:00 PM
It wasn't bad on GameCube, but it was long enough to notice the difference between the two. I always got the Xbox version of multiplatform games for this reason (try Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Every time you go from one island to the other you have to deal with a loading time of about 5 seconds with the PS2 version, the Xbox version was less than 1 second).
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 08:10:53 PM
Is there anything stopping Nintendo from including PS2 BC in the Wii? Now that would be something, wouldn't it? And I think it would only be fair considering how the PSP has been used to pirate Nintendo's older systems. So turnabout is fair play...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 08:33:10 PM
The Wii is no where near powerful enough to emulate a PS2... The PS3 can't even do it properly.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Stratos on June 30, 2009, 09:07:30 PM
I still think it is possible to have PS1 (and maybe some PS2) games on the VC. Especially with the SD expansion in place now.
Sure you couldn't call them PS1 games, just call them 32-bit games or something.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 09:14:58 PM
They can't even use the game code for PS1/2 games in any official release on Wii. Since it was built with licensing from Sony.
If there was a HomeBrew Emulator, you should be able to emulate PS1 games without too much of a problem, but emulating a PS2 on a Wii would probably run like crap. frames in the single digits if you got games to play at all.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: TJ Spyke on June 30, 2009, 09:44:13 PM
I don't see how Sony could stop any company from releasing their PS1 games on ANY system. For one, we have already seen Castlevania: Symphony of the Night released on Xbox Live Arcade. Second, compilation packs (like Mega Man X Collection) have been released for non-Sony systems that contained PS1 games. Unless it is a game Sony legally has some control over currently, there is nothing Sony could do from stopping them being released on Virtual Console, Xbox Live Arcade, or other similar services. If Square Enix wanted to release Final Fantasy VIII on the Wii (I was gonna say Final Fantasy VII, but I don't know if Sony still has any control over it since they published the original version, although they don't own the IP), Sony couldn't do squat. The only issue is that Nintendo would need to come up with a different name for the system, maybe a "Other" category?
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Chozo Ghost on June 30, 2009, 09:49:38 PM
The Wii is more powerful than the PS2 in all respects. Hell, the GC was more powerful than the PS2...
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 30, 2009, 10:08:11 PM
Wii is so powerful, it runs PS2 ports.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 10:24:48 PM
Since you don't seem to understand it the way that I understand it to work, let me attempt to explain.
3rd party publisher makes game code to work for the PSX and get licensing from Sony to do so. That licensed code can not be released on another system as is. They would have to completely port/remake the game over to work on the new system getting new licensing for the different hardware.
Therefore Wii will never have a PSX VC since Sony wouldn't allow that to happen. 3rd party publisher would have to either use the PC version code or just remake it for WiiWare.
& Wii is not powerful enough to emulate a PS2. The Wii would need to be several times more powerful to run its own code and emulate a PS2 within that. The PS3 is all kinds of more powerful than a Wii and even it can't emulate a PS2. The Xbox360 is all kinds of more powerful than an Xbox and it can't properly emulate it. What makes you think a Wii is powerful enough to emulate a PS2? The Wii wouldn't even be able emulate a GC if it wasn't already a GC+x2.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Mop it up on June 30, 2009, 11:23:33 PM
That isn't really an expansion. The Wii still doesn't play games directly from the SD card, it just loads them temporarily into the Wii internal memory. So games are still limited by the 512MB limit... and I'd guess half of that is reserved for firmware updates and messges. So really it's a 256MB limit, and that means no other game saves either.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 30, 2009, 11:40:07 PM
Mop it up, your right, the Wii is a GC and that was my point. The Wii wouldn't be able to emulate a GC if it didn't already have an actual Gamecube as its base and built around it.
Title: Re: Sony's secret weapon is PS3 Slim... Jim?
Post by: Ian Sane on July 02, 2009, 12:26:48 PM
Quote
It's funny how BC has become such an issue this generation. I recall some poeple near the end of the last gen that were saying BC was a declining need and not that big of a deal. But here it looks like removing it hurt a lot of the chances PS2 owners would jump up to the PS3. Unwise, I say, to alienate such a large userbase like that, especially when BC has pretty much become a standard now.
I think in Sony's case the issue is less that they don't have BC but that they clearly HAD it and then removed it... and then kept the PS3 at the same price. So you remove a feature so that your costs are lowered but I the customer do not benefit in any way? Uh, yeah, **** that. If the PS3 never had BC I don't think it would be as big of a deal. The Xbox 360 looks better for having partial BC than the PS3 does for having full BC and then removing it.
