Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on June 26, 2008, 05:34:16 PM
I don't know about this man.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2008, 05:46:56 PM
It's a Castlevania game so I'll at least play it. I don't want to complain because it is a Castlevania game and Wii exclusive to boot, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed that Judgement isn't a 2D Symphony of the Night killer.
Now I really want Konami to think long and hard before they say that X or Y game isn't appropriate for the Wii crowd with a straight face ever again because they passed up the opportunity to release the most obvious game on home platform ever to release a 3D spin-off of a traditionally 2D series on a console that is not only a perfect fit for the series, but also is highly suitable for 2D games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2008, 05:56:38 PM
@_@
...
who's...developing it?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: stevey on June 26, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
Another crappy kiddy game.
Goodbye any hope of a true Castlevania game or anyother Konami game ever again for the wii now the have their excuse for not releasing anything when this bombs....
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 26, 2008, 06:06:34 PM
Man, being a Nintendo fanboi is never boring, I'll give ya that.
Does Kairon already have this preordered?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2008, 06:41:35 PM
What's this? Another Wii exclusive spinoff of a popular series instead of a REAL entry? What a surprise!!
Can we all just agree that the Wii third party support is complete balls yet? The old "third parties didn't expect the Wii to be so successful" excuse officially no longer makes sense. Konami has had ample time to analyze the different consoles. This isn't some game annouced two years ago. This is a brand new title and development started after the Wii already was the number one selling console!!
Nintendo's blue ocean strategy has paid off for them but has completely ruined the console in terms of relevent support. Third parties think we're all casual non-gamer saps that buy any old crap. And the Gamecube 1.5 hardware and non-gamer focus and weird ass controller contributed to that. The Wii may be the top selling console but to a hardcore gamer it might as well be in last place like the Gamecube was.
I thought Nintendo was living in a dream world when they mentioned how they weren't really competing with the other consoles. They were right! The Wii isn't competing because its success has no effect on third party support. From the perspective of the "old market" the PS3 and X360 are competing while the Wii is unrelated and just happens to attract members of the old market as well due to a few token gamer focused sequels from Nintendo.
Though to be fair any REAL Castlevania game from Konami on a console would be doomed to suck anyway. ;)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2008, 06:42:10 PM
After hearing the Super Cool News about Retro Mega Man 9...this just sucks.
How I would of loved a Wii Ware Castlevania over this...even a retro one or something...but this, just doesn't work at all for me.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: bosshogx on June 26, 2008, 06:49:53 PM
Um...wow? I don't know what to think. Being a huge fan of fighting games, I'm at least interested. Konami doesn't have an impressive track record making fighting games, so we'll just have to sit back and see. To be honest though, I really wouldn't want a 3D Castlevania game anyway. Make the next Castlevania game for the WiiWare instead.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 26, 2008, 06:50:44 PM
Ian Konami has been treating Wii like crap since the beginning so please quit the dramatic "OH noes this means 3rd Parties aren't going to treat Wii well". This is one company who has always been screwed up in who they support. Both Capcom and EA has been showing GROWING support for Wii in all kinds of genres, heck from what I've heard there is a good chance that some of EA's sports games on Wii could be the definitive versions.
So please stop whining about "Oh no the Wii is not as powerful as the Xbox 360 or that you don't personally like the controller", 3rd parties have no one to blame but themselves. Third Party traditional games have sold well on Wii, at least those with some marketing behind them.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2008, 07:00:33 PM
Quote
Ian Konami has been treating Wii like crap since the beginning
EVERYONE has been treating the Wii like crap since the beginning. Who they hell hasn't? And if you say EA I'm going to scream and scare my co-workers.
The only noticable improvement I've seen other than vague promises is from Activision who originally gave us an inferior port of Guitar Hero 3 but are promising to make the Wii version of GH: World Tour as close to the other versions as possible.
Everyone else's games fall into four categories: 1. Wii exclusive spin-off of popular series with waggle optionally accompanied by REAL entry to the series being announced for the PS3 and X360 2. PS2 port with optional waggle 3. Incredibly low quality non-game 4. Patronizing kids game that may or may not be good depending on who made it with accompanying "we feel Magical Baby Adventure fits the weenie hut jr. userbase of the Wii" press release
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on June 26, 2008, 07:10:54 PM
Majesco treats the Wii well.
BTW, I believe Kairon pre-ordered Weenie Hut Jr.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2008, 07:12:31 PM
Hey, at least EA and Ubisoft tried....a little.
Capcom released one awesome game, and then released some remakes. Konami made two new franchises that weren't that great. Most of the Japanese companies have seem to really be neglecting the Wii or not putting great effort.
Ubisoft at least started strong...although it ended up all being shuffle ware...that leaves Capcom.
Which didn't produce quality, but it wasn't exactly crap either.
SSX Blur was pretty good. BOOM Blox is amazing...and the Sports games had original features and were playable.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2008, 07:18:58 PM
1. Wii exclusive spin-off of popular series with waggle optionally accompanied by REAL entry to the series being announced for the PS3 and X360 2. PS2 port with optional waggle 3. Incredibly low quality non-game 4. Patronizing kids game that may or may not be good depending on who made it with accompanying "we feel Magical Baby Adventure fits the weenie hut jr. userbase of the Wii" press release
All better than GC. And trending up. Lot of original titles coming from THQ; waaay more exclusives, even at B level, than the GameCube could ever boast; plus a lot of exclusive content, original IP and established franchise, including JRPGs, from Japanese developers revealed over the past couple months.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 26, 2008, 07:25:14 PM
EA has been one of Wii's most important third parties. All their madden games have been high quality (with the upcoming one actually teetering on being revolutionary). SSX BLur was a well received game along with Godfather which was doing some great things with the Wii Remote. Then we have Boom Blox which is AMAZING. From what I've read about Tiger Woods it could easily be the definitive version with the Wii remote.
Supposedly EA also has some new ground up games coming out on Wii soon as well. EA has been a great developer for Wii and were constantly trying to take advantage of the system. Heck look at Medal of Honor 2 which beat the crap out of any other online game on Wii along with GREAT controls. So yes I"ll say EA because they've done an admirable job, even MySims was a solid step.
I also have to throw a praise out there for Smarty Pants one of my favorite trivia games EVER which was by EA.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on June 26, 2008, 07:25:41 PM
So who would win in a fight, Siegfried or Simon Belmont?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2008, 07:27:19 PM
Scream Ian...Scream. Please.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Ian Sane on June 26, 2008, 07:32:02 PM
Quote
All better than GC.
Does anyone who says this even remember what the Gamecube was like?
The Wii doesn't have ANYTHING third party even remotely on par with
Rogue Leader Soul Calibur II The three Resident Evil games
Even with something like Resident Evil 4 only being a temporary exclusive at least we got it. RE 5 isn't even annouced for the Wii. At least we got multiplatform games like Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell. The Wii doesn't even get stuff like that. Soul Calibur IV may have dumb Star Wars stuff in it but it's not on the Wii and is on the other consoles. Just the fact that the Cube got a version of Soul Calibur II is better in comparision.
Though the Cube third party support did suck. Oh man did it suck. I'd say at best right now the Wii is comparable. But I don't see how it's better. Both consoles require me to think really hard about what third party games were worth a damn.
Plus you bring up THQ? Come on! Don't be so naive to think THQ will release anything that isn't complete shovelware on ANY console. The only THQ product that was ever worth a damn was the Aki wrestling games on the N64.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: EasyCure on June 26, 2008, 07:34:00 PM
i want to make some smart ass remark but i got nothing. Between this and Sould Calibur/Mortal Kombat putting weird **** into their games like Yoda/Vader and Superman/Batman... i feel like this is that awkward period in the 90s when Street Fighter was King and EVERYONE wanted a peice of the fighter pie.
It just reaks of Shaq Fu + TMNT Tourney Fighters
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 26, 2008, 07:50:01 PM
Let me think of some 3rd party games I enjoy on Wii:
-Okami -No More Heroes -RE: UC -Smarty Pants -Boom Blox -Zack and Wiki -Elebits (Konami's only good Wii game IMO)
Not even sure I would include Rogue Leader as an example of GC 3rd party support since Factor 5 was quite close with Nintendo. Regardless this summer we will also see Fatal Frame 4 which looks STUNNING to one of the creepiest survival horror series around.
There, and I'm not including all the various "ports" that I believe to be high quality, with Okami being the only one I listed. And THQ's Deadly Creatures looks extremely promising and unique and I think it is a bit silly to start trashing them before they are given a chance with the game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2008, 08:42:04 PM
Does anyone who says this even remember what the Gamecube was like?
The Wii doesn't have ANYTHING third party even remotely on par with
Rogue Leader Soul Calibur II The three Resident Evil games
Even with something like Resident Evil 4 only being a temporary exclusive at least we got it. RE 5 isn't even annouced for the Wii. At least we got multiplatform games like Prince of Persia and Splinter Cell. The Wii doesn't even get stuff like that. Soul Calibur IV may have dumb Star Wars stuff in it but it's not on the Wii and is on the other consoles. Just the fact that the Cube got a version of Soul Calibur II is better in comparision.
Though the Cube third party support did suck. Oh man did it suck. I'd say at best right now the Wii is comparable. But I don't see how it's better. Both consoles require me to think really hard about what third party games were worth a damn.
Plus you bring up THQ? Come on! Don't be so naive to think THQ will release anything that isn't complete shovelware on ANY console. The only THQ product that was ever worth a damn was the Aki wrestling games on the N64.
The only console I owned last gen was a GC. So I think I'm quite qualified to speak on the subject, thank you very much. And your post exposes your narrow view of what comprises a library.
The Wii's library of exclusives is much more numerous and much wider than the GC's could ever be remembered as. It includes Sonic:Sotr, Trauma Center, and Elebits. You may wish to ignore them, but the success of MySims, Carnival Games, and potentially We Ski prove that they're serving consumer needs. EA has suddenly been inspired to provide new and exclusive content like Boom Blox, along with other much less palatable, but nonetheless exclusive, fare. Compared to having to wait ages for an obscure title like Doubutsu no Bancho/Cubivore to come stateside, the Wii saw surprising localizations of such quirks as Puchi Copter and The Dog Island. Will we get Jawa as well?
The GC saw one SE game in its lifetime. The Wii hasn't been out for two complete years yet and it's getting its second this July. The GC's sole headlining JRPG was Tales of Symphonia, which defected to the PS2 soon enough. Now we're getting another Tales in Dawn of a New World, but also Arc Fantasia and that mysterious Fragile. Behind the scenes the PS3's abysmal Japanese performance is likely to cause more defections.
Actually, Parappa used to be a strictly Playstation deal. The dog still is, but the next game from his creators is a Wii Exclusive(guess who the publisher is? A company most "traditional" gamers don't give a second thought to: the much-maligned and ignored Majesco). Monster Hunter Tri is coming to the Wii, a high profile steal from the PS3. So too are the Tenchu IV and Fatal Frame IV exclusives: stolen franchises from across the console divide.
In fact, considering that the Balance Board has a higher userbase in Japan than the PS3, it should prove no surprise that Nintendo's peripheral is breaking all the rules for peripherals. It's got third parties from EA(Skate it) to Konami(We Ski) to THQ(All Star Cheerleader) pledging support for what is likely to be one of the game industries most successful peripherals.
Ah, so I've mentioned THQ, that company you so ignorantly malign. They've prepared titles for the Wii that cause one to wonder where they came from. de Blob was my favorite game of the Nintendo Media Event: a platform/action game with addictive multiplayer and such a seamless pick-up-and-play experience. Deadly Creatures has you playing a Scorpion or a Tarantula...and is loaded with next-gen Brown. Yes, they're THQ and they also have a healthy stable of licensed franchises, yes they took Drawn to Life and decided to stick Spongebob in it for a sequel, but whether you like it or not they've got a one-two punch for Traditional gamers this fall in those two original IP core games.
And it's funny to think of the games I've forgotten to mention at this point, like Light Gun shooters (the GC never got those, I had to play Time Crisis on a friend's PS2 with their guncon) and adventure titles(Zack & Wiki yes, but also upcoming exclusive PC crossovers like Sam & Max, Strong Bad, and Runaway Dream of the Turtle). Then there's the WiiWare and indie games that are gravitating our way for the first time ever. And of course the music games, where not only is Activision upping their game, but EA will have to respond and other games are, exclusively, filtering in around the fringes.
I remember the GameCube as long stretches of dashed hope. I remember the Capcom Five, the droughts, and a horribly ported version of Conflict Desert Storm. I remember beating Tales of Symphonia as an exercise of willpower, not of pleasure, and I remember envying the quirks that were on other consoles: in what games could I take pictures of ghosts, fly around as mosquitos (Ka, oh where have you gone?), or enjoy rhythm music gaming? There's still plenty to envy Ian, but there's less now.
Actually, if I owned just an XBox 360, I'd personally be looking over the fence this way and wondering: "There's nothing about it that really absolutely needs motion, why didn't they give me de Blob? Why am I not getting the Strong Bad game on XBLA? And why did Geometry Wars get ported over with added features?"
Even as a PlayStation 3 owner I'd be asking myself: "would I rather have Time Crisis IV or Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles?"
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: animecyberrat on June 26, 2008, 11:16:26 PM
I....think the game looks like it could be fun. I find it funny how everyone talked trash on the 3D Castlevanias and now they suddenly want on. I know Castevania would rock on Wii Ware, but aren't they still putting their main Castlevania games on the DS so how is that a bad thing? Is there a chance the game might suck, sure there is that chance with any game. Is this a "slap in the face" to Nintendo? Nope not one bit, considering the DS still gets the main games. Is there a chance the game might turn out good? Maybe, bt at least it *is* another fighting game and so far GC, and even Wii has been lacking in those so spin off or not it's fine by me.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 27, 2008, 12:28:31 AM
Some more info from Nintendo Power:
Castlevania: Judgment - more details
Some more snippets from the Nintendo Power article…
- Maria unlocked through DS to Wii connectivity - special move gauge that builds up to a move that is much like a “final smash” - some sort of WFC interaction - character models by Takeshi Obata (Death Note) - Quote from Igarashi “I guess some fans may worry about the game quality, but I am confident that we can achieve a very high-quality game. I think that fans…will see that it stays true to the Castlevania series. Even though this is a fighting game I can guarantee that it will be fun.”
Now Ian the general consensus is that is that 3rd party titles on Wii are crap and to a degree they are, however Wii (and you can even count the DS on this one) both platforms are getting very diverse support by all the publishers, and the diversity in the Wii's and DS's library is nothing like any other you can't really say anything about the amount of diversity in the 360's library or PS3's library. Sure you can argue and say that theres a lot of crappy games on the Wii but guess what crappy games exist on every console about 30 - 50% of games on a console art crap.
The main problem with a lot of gamers are that they are just clinging on to the main established franchises and are afraid to try new franchises even though those new franchises have exceptional or excellent quality games; it happened to Okami, Boom Blox, Viva Pinata , Blast Works amongst other franchises. There's nothing wrong with sticking to the main established series but a lot of people are going to get sick of those types of games if they are force fed the same exact thing millions of times over.
While Wii does sometimes get a different variation of a established series it's usually not a bad thing because what if that spin off do something well and people like it better than the main series? Castlevania is a interesting series since it went from a strict 2d affair then to a metroidesque experience that last till this day then to a 3D game, the DS pushed the series to have online functionality and now finally a fighting game with online features of some kind. If IGA's team put in an exceptional amount of effort into it then perhaps IGA can change your mind that castlevania can in fact be a fighting game with good Wii controls. It's disheartening to see how people can be so closed minded about things hell just look at the Wii when it was first revealed people kept knocking it and calling it a impeding failure and yet it's the king of the hill now in all territories.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Strell on June 27, 2008, 01:38:29 AM
As much as I hate to say it, I'm with Ian on this one.
The third party offerings this time around fall into those categories he described.
I do see the point that third party software from a "have versus have not" angle is marginally better this generation around, but it's still pretty abysmal.
We all know that 3D Castlevanias suck, and that sticking franchise characters into a fighting game MORE OFTEN THAN NOT results in total failure (some obvious exceptions noted). Konami has tried their hand at fighters, and they've failed everytime.
The ONLY WAY this could possibly be good is if I find out they've stolen major players from the Tekken and Virtua Fighter development teams.
I mean, is this what I have to look forward to when it comes to non-1st/2nd party games for Nintendo's consoles until eternity? It's like everyone is being as passively aggressive as humanly possible toward Nintendo these days. Capcom brings us endless remakes/re-releases, doesn't advertise them, and than whines about sales, but then turns the profit around and wastes it on big production 360/PS3 games that *can not* be driving profits that high. EA strips out key elements and gives us bull**** I am a terrible poaster. -grade nonsense. Namco is basically nowhere to be found.
I mean SERIOUSLY. So now the next time I hear a rumor that could be actually GOOD, like, say, "Metal Gear Solid may come to the Wii," the absolute BEST I could hope for in that situation would be Metal Kart Solid, right? Or Metal Party Solid? Or Metal Puzzle Solid?
I'm so ****ing tired of this kind of ****. The best answer that can be given to me is to get another console, and that's a few hundred bucks easily.
I mean, I don't even know who to be mad at anymore. Should I be pissed at Nintendo for letting this kind of bull**** happen? Should I be pissed at Nintendo for seemingly making motion controls this generation's version of GC-GBA connectivity, where we have one minor/overblow/turns out to not be that great feature being used *in place of* something that developers and gamers actually respond to (i.e., connectivity versus online play, and now waggle versus HD graphics)? Should I be pissed at Iga, because he's a damn asshole? Should I be pissed at Konami, who greenlit this trash to begin with?
I've had it with this generation. It's nothing but derivative crap on the "big" systems, and nothing but PURE **** on the Wii.
Everyone knows SOTN rocks. Everyone generally seems to like the DS incarnations. Why in the **** would you not want to pursue that inherent fanbase?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2008, 01:55:52 AM
Soul Calibur Legends set a precedent for terrible spin-offs so I give Nintendo fans a pass for being close-minded about this game. IGA guaruntees that the game will be fun but while they're different companies, I remember Namco bragging that Legends was being developed by a so-called "Dream Team" at the company. Spare the lip service, we needs results. That's why Miyamoto is so revered. He can talk up a storm about his games, but when they're released, they're often F*CKING amazing. And it certainly doesn't help that IGA has yet to succeed in bringing the series to 3D. Additionally, he's experimenting with Castlevania in a genre he knows nothing about. He's a talented game designer, but there's certainly reason to have reservations.
Anyway, I find it odd that IGA is going back to the anime/manga art style. In last month's Nintendo Power, I recall him admitting that fans didn't like the art direction of Portrait of Ruin and Dawn of Sorrow. So much for that.....
Everyone knows SOTN rocks. Everyone generally seems to like the DS incarnations. Why in the **** would you not want to pursue that inherent fanbase?
True, but I won't kick up a fuss unless a 2D game is announced for PS3/X360. A 3D game will sting, but a 2D game is like bricking in every Nintendo fan's mouth.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2008, 02:06:52 AM
I mean, is this what I have to look forward to when it comes to non-1st/2nd party games for Nintendo's consoles until eternity?
No. Only for about 1.5 more generations, I think. Then we'll move onto the next stage of widespread third-party support. *crosses fingers*
Seriously though, sometimes I just want all the stubborn third parties to go bankrupt so we can just get a clean slate. But then I realize that I'm talking about game company genocide.
I mean, I don't even know who to be mad at anymore.
...
Should I be pissed at Iga, because he's a damn asshole? Should I be pissed at Konami, who greenlit this trash to begin with?
This too. Is there a Konami expert in the house who can explain the direction this company is headed in at all? Was there a management change somewhere along the line? An exodus of staff? Did making Metal Gear Solid 4 just suck that much life out of them? Is there some psychological/cultural thing at that company?
Sure, there's always the possibility that this game will turn out good, and Iga is promising that it'll be fun... I hope he knows what he's doing.
That's why Miyamoto is so revered. He can talk up a storm about his games, but when they're released, they're often F*CKING amazing. And it certainly doesn't help that IGA has yet to succeed in bringing the series to 3D.
I say we give Castlevania to Nintendo and Retro Studios.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 27, 2008, 03:15:12 AM
I guess I better stop loving Boom Blox because is it is PURE ****. Why in the heck are people being so freaken dramatic? It is stupid to state that all the 3rd party games on the Wii are crap and that the other consoles have nothing but derivative crap. Let's get some perspective people, it looks pretty silly. As an owner of all THREE systems they each have great gaming experiences to offer (Well PS3 less than the others, but they are still there) that you cannot find on other systems. I LOVE my Wii because I get completely different genres than I can get on 360 and vice versa. For every great shooter like Bioshock there is also a great game like Zack and Wiki on Wii or even a Boom Blox.
The Wii Remote is starting to come into its own. Dang people the Wii has only been out for a year and a half, what is with this Armageddon, this generation sucks? Don't anyone remember last generation? It took PS2 at least a year perhaps longer to get anything worthwhile on it and that system is still going. It is extremely naive and absurd to condemn a system so early in its life especially when console life spans can surpass 5 years. Not to mention a system that has such a new way of playing. EVERY new technology or way of doing things takes time to adjust to and Wii is no different. Heck look at the NES, it took a couple of years for it to take hold and through those growing pains gaming was changed.
Nintendo has hit something with the Wii Remote and it will not be some forgotten gimmick, so please give it time. Third Parties and even Nintendo themselves are not used to the new doors the system has opened, so there is going to be careful but steady progress, just give it time. Don't be sad and silly but instead be optimistic and happy!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 27, 2008, 03:43:44 AM
I just want to know what the hell was going through IGA's head when he decided to do this? Every since the Wii was first shown, IGA has been asked over and over again about making a Castlevania for the Wii. He even commented about how a lot of people want him to make a Castlevania for the Wii. IGA had huge support from the Nintendo fanbase, and yet he decided to completely blow it.
Hopefully when this game bombs and the third DS does well, IGA will get the message that the Nintendo fans on the Wii want an ACTUAL Castlevania game on the Wii, and not some half assed spinoff crap.
And yes I'm going to refer to this game as crap until IGA proves to me otherwise. Right now IGA has only shown that he can make good games that are 2d Castlevania's based heavily off of Symhony of the Night and that's it. If he wants to show us he can do something other then that, then this will be his time to shine.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 27, 2008, 03:48:23 AM
Are we sure IGA wasn't pushed into this by Konami because it would be a low risk game?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on June 27, 2008, 08:38:01 AM
Strange that Konami gives us a 2d fighter (among the most hardcore genres out there) after whining so much about casuals. Fighters are hard to get right and without experience I doubt this will go well (and I don't remember any fighting games by Konami) but they haven't been able to get Castlevania right in 3d after so many tries it's not a loss. I think Inafune is right, you can't make an oldschool 2d game on a home console and expect it to sell much at retail since it will be seen as inferior. Besides, 2d doesn't lend itself to motion controls. The alternative would have been a 3d Castlevania that would be forgotten just as quickly. They're already making another 2d Cv for the DS, what else should they have done? Make two different 2d games?
Also the Wii isn't very big on fighters so far so it does kinda fit in. I think connectivity unlocks are lame but eh, I guess more people will own the matching DS game than this.
And because I just have to say it: MOAR MOAI!!!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Ian Sane on June 27, 2008, 12:18:14 PM
Quote
Even as a PlayStation 3 owner I'd be asking myself: "would I rather have Time Crisis IV or Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles?"
As a PS3 owner I'd be all "are there any worthwhile exclusives on this console besides MGS4?" I may crap on the Wii's third party support but the PS3 is only doing better in that it gets a lot of the big Xbox 360 third party games. But the PS3 is largely an unessential console. Both the X360 and Wii have way more exclusives. If I owned a Wii and an X360 Metal Gear would be the only thing I would feel I'm missing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Pale on June 27, 2008, 12:25:41 PM
Maybe until LBP comes out :)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Plugabugz on June 27, 2008, 01:42:10 PM
The entire internet is banned from reminding me of this.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2008, 02:26:21 PM
little butt plug
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2008, 04:53:40 PM
What really upsets me is that if this game doesn't sell Konami won't analyze the game and think...wow perhaps we made a poor choice in mixing our IP with a fighting game. Instead, they will blame it on Nintendo's Wii market not supporting these type of games and not make anything for the Wii.
What a crock. They could have just made a nice 2D Castlevania and everyone would have been happy....but this is just stupid.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: vudu on June 27, 2008, 05:12:29 PM
I don't think they'll blame Nintendo. They'll come to the conclusion that 3D Castlevanias don't sell and stop making them. (Did any of the PS2 ones sell?)
They'll probably stop making the 2D ones, too, because Konami hates me.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2008, 05:14:03 PM
Hopefully when this game bombs and the third DS does well, IGA will get the message that the Nintendo fans on the Wii want an ACTUAL Castlevania game on the Wii, and not some half assed spinoff crap.
I won't go as far as labelling this crap (yet), but it does seem set to bomb at retail. The Castlevania series already isn't a huge seller. It's a series produced on the cheap that sells enough to its fanbase to turn a decent profit. Judgement, as a spin-off, already alienates some of that fanbase and doesn't necessarily appeal to the rest of the Wii audience. I hope after this game sells its one copy (to me, in all likelihood) that someone, regardless of console affiliation, palms IGA in the face and pushes it away when he tries to PR spin poor sales to hardcore games not selling on the Wii.
They're already making another 2d Cv for the DS, what else should they have done? Make two different 2d games?
To be honest, yes. That's exactly what they should have done. The fans want it and if they didn't already have a Wii, many would buy one for a new 2D Castlevania on a home console. That's the nature of a fanbase. Spin-offs, on the other hand, are fanbase splitters. You can already expect some people to pass because it's not their cup of tea.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2008, 06:10:24 PM
I think after this game flops, Konami is well on its way to being finished.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2008, 07:47:39 PM
To be honest, yes. That's exactly what they should have done. The fans want it and if they didn't already have a Wii, many would buy one for a new 2D Castlevania on a home console. That's the nature of a fanbase. Spin-offs, on the other hand, are fanbase splitters. You can already expect some people to pass because it's not their cup of tea.
Makes no sense IMO, why make two games with the same design goal just so two different consoles have exclusives for the same type of game? Why not make one game and port it? Konami has no interest in making the Wii succeed, they only want to make money themselves. Developing two almost identical games for different platforms is a waste of money, one of them could be declared a sequel and both get released on the same system (thus selling more because the fans of that gameplay are more likely to own the system) which would also allow using the same team so the games turn out consistent. If they really wanted to get a 2d Wii Cv they would do that instead of the DS game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Michael8983 on June 28, 2008, 03:53:35 AM
You all need to chill. Konami is giving us an exclusive game featuring one of its most prominent franchises. This is good news and you're all acting like we've been done wrong. I mean this is the problem with Nintendo fans, they want third-party support and when they get it they bitch about it not being good enough. Sure if we end up getting this and missing out of the next "true" Castlevania game it would suck but that's yet to be confirmed. We could still very well get that as well. Or the series could remain on the DS where it probably belongs. If there is a PS3/360 version in the works (which I doubt) it's most likely a full, free-roaming 3D title that will almost certainly suck and be even less of a "true" Castlevania to fans.
Besides this might just end up being a damn good game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2008, 04:10:49 AM
I blame Konami first, Nintendo fans second.
Is there any news as to when this is coming out though? Because my fall schedule is getting more and more competitive for gaming.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2008, 04:23:11 AM
I think most of us are upset with Konami because they've treated Wii owners in general horribly, all you need to do is look at Targer Terror to know what I mean. While other 3rd parties appear to be trying, Konami is stuck in stupid mode when it comes to games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2008, 04:59:31 AM
The thing is though that I totally dig Elebits and Dewy. Konami somehow made interesting titles even though they intended to backhand me in the face. But even then, Konami has a single tiny team on Wii and OH GOD DON'T TELL ME THAT THE ELEBITS/DEWY TEAM WAS PUT ON THIS?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 28, 2008, 05:02:50 AM
The thing is though that I totally dig Elebits and Dewy. Konami somehow made interesting titles even though they intended to backhand me in the face. But even then, Konami has a single tiny team on Wii and OH GOD DON'T TELL ME THAT THE ELEBITS/DEWY TEAM WAS PUT ON THIS?!?!?!?
Well I'll give you Elebits but really you can tell they do NOT take Wii seriously. That would be hilarious if the Dewy and Elebits team was on this!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2008, 05:12:03 AM
That would be hilarious if the Dewy and Elebits team was on this!
I'd be furious. I can handle Konami shoving a Castlevania fighter down our throats. I COULDN'T handle them forcing the Dewy Elebit team to do this instead of making me another delightfully quirky game against all odds.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Michael8983 on June 28, 2008, 08:47:56 AM
It's fair to be upset at Konami for treating the Wii so poorly in its first year or so but can't we take this announcement as a sign that it's now making an effort. I mean this is 1) one of Konami's biggest franchises 2) a 3D fighting game, a genre that the Wii needs more of and 3) a "hardcore" title that will probably get at least a "T" rating which shows they don't see the Wii as a kiddy/uber-casual console afterall.
Also being the first next-gen console with a Castlevania title (not to mention all the previous entries available on the VC) makes the Wii all the more likely to get the next true installment.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2008, 12:23:40 PM
Makes no sense IMO, why make two games with the same design goal just so two different consoles have exclusives for the same type of game? Why not make one game and port it? Konami has no interest in making the Wii succeed, they only want to make money themselves. Developing two almost identical games for different platforms is a waste of money, one of them could be declared a sequel and both get released on the same system (thus selling more because the fans of that gameplay are more likely to own the system) which would also allow using the same team so the games turn out consistent. If they really wanted to get a 2d Wii Cv they would do that instead of the DS game.
How does it not make sense? A main series entry would sell more than a spin-off. Guarunteed. Konami would make more money. Isn't that the bottomline?
On top of that, who said anything about "two almost identical games?" Aria of Sorrow, for example, isn't almost identical to Symphony of the Night or more of traditional pre-SotN Castlevania titles like, Super Castlevania IV. On top of that, companies do that all the time. Why do we need Mario Kart, for example, on both Wii and DS? We don't, but they make money and people enjoy them.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 28, 2008, 12:30:25 PM
"You all need to chill. Konami is giving us an exclusive game featuring one of its most prominent franchises."
Soul Calibur Regends rears its ugly head.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 28, 2008, 05:50:32 PM
Yes, the recipe for perfect fanboi drama...
Anyway, its the same song and dance with you people so I'll just save my strenght and play some games.
KTHANXBYE
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 28, 2008, 06:26:24 PM
Also Konami is giving Wii owners a proper DDR games, while PS3 gets no DDR games and 360 gets DDR games full of random crappy American music that should not exist in a DDR game, even though DDR isn't as relevant as it was in the PS1/PS2 era it's still a major franchise for Konami. But in general Konami has been treating all the current consoles like crap the only major console games this gen by Konami is MGS4. The portables however are quite decent with konami support again, there's a lot of crap that Konami is throwing on the DS and PSP but there are quite a few gems as well.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on June 28, 2008, 08:17:07 PM
[...]360 gets DDR games full of random crappy American music that should not exist in a DDR game[...]
I didn't realize that J-Pop was so much better than popular American music. I'd rather see DDR come packed with good Japanese music, like Malice Mizer, Moi dix Mois, X Japan, etc!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 28, 2008, 08:45:55 PM
[...]360 gets DDR games full of random crappy American music that should not exist in a DDR game[...]
I didn't realize that J-Pop was so much better than popular American music. I'd rather see DDR come packed with good Japanese music, like Malice Mizer, Moi dix Mois, X Japan, etc!
This says your wrong. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OfL7VtNUk9E&feature=related) This says your reasoning = epic failure. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GoQXSTUZf3I&feature=related)
Now compare those two to some songs on the Wii DDR mix that was made in house at Bemani.
Like this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7JmgnzAzh8&feature=related) Or this. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9pJoagP7vJU)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on June 29, 2008, 03:01:45 AM
Talking about how Konami doesn't give us good games means ignoring PES 2008. The GC didn't get any PES AFAIK and the Wii got the best version of this year's release.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 29, 2008, 04:35:31 AM
Talking about how Konami doesn't give us good games means ignoring PES 2008. The GC didn't get any PES AFAIK and the Wii got the best version of this year's release.
Well to be fair PES was a great game by Konami. It has a chance to be a game that will revolutionize sports games (even Madden is taking aspects from it). Now I'm not sure I'd give Konami all the credit, it could be a Vicarious Visions thing where the developer went the extra mile.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on June 29, 2008, 10:46:28 AM
Talking about how Konami doesn't give us good games means ignoring PES 2008. The GC didn't get any PES AFAIK and the Wii got the best version of this year's release.
Well to be fair PES was a great game by Konami. It has a chance to be a game that will revolutionize sports games (even Madden is taking aspects from it). Now I'm not sure I'd give Konami all the credit, it could be a Vicarious Visions thing where the developer went the extra mile.
Yeah PES is a great example but the 360 and PS3 versions were mediocre with a horrid online component on the 360 and PS3, I don't know about the online on the Wii version since I don't own it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on June 29, 2008, 01:59:54 PM
[...]360 gets DDR games full of random crappy American music that should not exist in a DDR game[...]
I didn't realize that J-Pop was so much better than popular American music. I'd rather see DDR come packed with good Japanese music, like Malice Mizer, Moi dix Mois, X Japan, etc!
This says your wrong. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=OfL7VtNUk9E&feature=related) This says your reasoning = epic failure. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=GoQXSTUZf3I&feature=related)
Now compare those two to some songs on the Wii DDR mix that was made in house at Bemani.
Like this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q7JmgnzAzh8&feature=related) Or this. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=9pJoagP7vJU)
Okay, I can't argue about the Safety Dance, but I do enjoy The Bangles. Neither of those two "in house" songs sounded like actual music though, just a bunch of synthesized noise with something akin to rapping overdubbed. :P
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Crimm on June 29, 2008, 02:29:04 PM
The best part of this news is the following:
Soul Calibur on Wii: Action/Adventure Castlevania on Wii: Fighting
It's like Namco and Konami got together to institute mass trolling.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 29, 2008, 03:35:45 PM
Actually, this game could have a chance of being somewhat decent. When you think about it, since IGA's team is pretty small and have no experience with 3d fighting games, it is possible that an outside company could be working on this game with IGA just overlooking the progress. Just like how the PSP Castlevania was done by and outside team and all IGA did was overlook the development.
If we're lucky, then 8ing might end up being behind this. Since all 8ing does is make 3d fighters for other companies, who's to say Konami and IGA didn't get a hold of them to make this game. And since they're capable of making decent fighting engines, I'd actually have faith in this game if they're involved.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ReverendNoahWhateley on June 30, 2008, 02:45:17 AM
I actually enjoyed the second N64 Castlevania game. That you could play through it again with the guy with flintlock pistols was pretty original, for its time.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 30, 2008, 02:50:32 AM
That was also, I believe, the last time they made a 2D one for a console. 2D wouldn't have flown on any console since the PS1 (maybe the Cube) but it would work on the Wii, and instead they gave us Super Smash Belmonts.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on June 30, 2008, 05:52:48 AM
No, Super Smash Belmonts was on the GC and called Dream Mix TV World Fighters, letting you play as Snake, Optimus Prime, Bomberman and a Moai too.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on July 01, 2008, 08:01:18 PM
I found this amusing... (http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb132/tomoisawesome/alucard_new_castlevania_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 02, 2008, 05:14:23 AM
Would have been awfully funny with Juste Belmont.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: RABicle on July 02, 2008, 06:55:02 AM
I think after this game flops, Konami is well on its way to being finished.
Are you kidding?
Quote from: MADONNA DYNOMITE
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 02, 2008, 12:37:28 PM
I think RAB understood that. He followed up with some sarcasm afterword.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 09, 2008, 10:45:43 AM
More Screenshots courtesy of NeoGaf (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11882785&postcount=35)
Do not look at the first post of that thread because he has overblown his screenshots tremendously.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 09, 2008, 11:19:38 AM
There are complaints about it looking PS2 like, I'd say that's the fault of the lighting. The character models don't seem problematic though they have a more painterly style than what you usually see (which may come across as looking last gen). With a prettier lighting setup it would look much better. Anyone feel like shopping the rim lighting from SMG or the Red Steel promo shots into those pics?
People complain about the way Simon looks, I think he was like that in World Fighters too. It doesn't resemble the sprite that much but we're talking about an 8 bit era sprite, anything with arms, legs and a bandana would look like simon. Be glad they didn't use the Captain N design...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 09, 2008, 11:57:41 AM
Well KDR it didn't help that the original poster of those pics put them in 2560x1920 and some one re-sized them from those pics. But really the graphics are good. I hate how a lot of people judge lighting this gen. Rim lighting =/= proper lighting 99% of the time. What do we want next a castlevania game that's lit up like its full of Christmas lights?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Peachylala on July 09, 2008, 02:01:35 PM
*Second Newbie Post*
@ Adrock: That. Was. Awesome.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 09, 2008, 03:13:01 PM
I might buy this game to keep Igarashi from making standard Castlevania games.
[konami suit] Decent sales, Iga! You sold 2 yesterday! The game even has lolis! [Iga] Thanks! [konami suit] We'RE going to have you make 3 more games to have a fantastic fighting series on Wii! [Iga] WHAT
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on July 09, 2008, 05:28:31 PM
Casltevania Judgement is shaping up to be more interesting.
I wonder if you're the riddler, or the riddle.
I'm actually very impressed with the graphics myself. The character models are really good.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 09, 2008, 08:12:45 PM
I actually think CJ could be cool. At least they're doing the series justice with their character designs and models. What bothers me is how you just know that this game won't have a good online component. Instead of something that players want - like, say, one-one-one online fighting, like 99% of all fighting games these days - you'll get something like the ability to trade items over WiiConnect24. GREAT
Also, the PS3 has a lot of great exclusives aside from MGS4: Resistance: Fall of Man, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Super Stardust HD (PSN), Ratchet and Clank, Motorstorm, Echochrome (PSN), Ninja Gaiden Sigma, MLB 08 The Show (best sports game this generation), and maybe a couple more. The whole "PS3 has no games" stuff has been invalid for a while, yet people still perpetuate it. Maybe these games aren't some people's cup of tea, but they're all critically-acclaimed. You could bring them up to defend the PS3 just like people bring up Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes on the Wii.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 09, 2008, 08:38:54 PM
I actually think CJ could be cool. At least they're doing the series justice with their character designs and models. What bothers me is how you just know that this game won't have a good online component. Instead of something that players want - like, say, one-one-one online fighting, like 99% of all fighting games these days - you'll get something like the ability to trade items over WiiConnect24. GREAT
The material for this game DOES confirm 1 vs 1 online fighting...
Also, the PS3 has a lot of great exclusives aside from MGS4: Resistance: Fall of Man, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Super Stardust HD (PSN), Ratchet and Clank, Motorstorm, Echochrome (PSN), Ninja Gaiden Sigma, MLB 08 The Show (best sports game this generation), and maybe a couple more. The whole "PS3 has no games" stuff has been invalid for a while, yet people still perpetuate it. Maybe these games aren't some people's cup of tea, but they're all critically-acclaimed. You could bring them up to defend the PS3 just like people bring up Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes on the Wii.
It's true. Just like the GameCube had good exclusive games, so too does the PS3.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Deguello on July 09, 2008, 09:58:22 PM
Also, the PS3 has a lot of great exclusives aside from MGS4: Resistance: Fall of Man, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Super Stardust HD (PSN), Ratchet and Clank, Motorstorm, Echochrome (PSN), Ninja Gaiden Sigma, MLB 08 The Show (best sports game this generation), and maybe a couple more. The whole "PS3 has no games" stuff has been invalid for a while, yet people still perpetuate it. Maybe these games aren't some people's cup of tea, but they're all critically-acclaimed. You could bring them up to defend the PS3 just like people bring up Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes on the Wii.
And? The WONDERSWAN had good games too. What we're talking about here is the PERCEPTION that the PS3 has no good games. And as we all know, perception = reality.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 09, 2008, 10:25:55 PM
I actually think CJ could be cool. At least they're doing the series justice with their character designs and models. What bothers me is how you just know that this game won't have a good online component. Instead of something that players want - like, say, one-one-one online fighting, like 99% of all fighting games these days - you'll get something like the ability to trade items over WiiConnect24. GREAT
Also, the PS3 has a lot of great exclusives aside from MGS4: Resistance: Fall of Man, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, Super Stardust HD (PSN), Ratchet and Clank, Motorstorm, Echochrome (PSN), Ninja Gaiden Sigma, MLB 08 The Show (best sports game this generation), and maybe a couple more. The whole "PS3 has no games" stuff has been invalid for a while, yet people still perpetuate it. Maybe these games aren't some people's cup of tea, but they're all critically-acclaimed. You could bring them up to defend the PS3 just like people bring up Zack & Wiki and No More Heroes on the Wii.
Getting a $400+ system to play more-expensive HD upgrades (or "corrections" to cover previous-gen mishaps) versions of last-gen experiences is not A CUP OF TEA it's 5-6 tanks of gas, or RENT. How you managed include Motorstorm on that list is beyond me. "Critically acclaimed" is a marketable way of saying "yeah this game was pretty cool and looked good on an expensive TV" by journalists (lolz) who don't have to buy these games in the first place.
That is my extremist view.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on July 09, 2008, 11:26:40 PM
People complain about the way Simon looks, I think he was like that in World Fighters too. It doesn't resemble the sprite that much but we're talking about an 8 bit era sprite, anything with arms, legs and a bandana would look like simon. Be glad they didn't use the Captain N design...
Simon in CJ is based on Ayami Kojima's redesign from Castlevania Chronicles. He doesn't look as manly but I always liked Kojima's designs so I never minded.
At least they're doing the series justice with their character designs and models.
Eww...
I'm not digging the anime art style for the series nor do I watch/care for Death Note. I still find it strange that IGA admitted on several occasions that fans of the series have not been receptive of the anime designs in Dawn of Sorrow or Portrait of Ruin and yet he opts for anime designs for Judgement AFTER going back to a darker, more mature art style for Order of Ecclesia. He's like an alzheimer's patient.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Mario on July 10, 2008, 01:14:54 AM
All those games are embarassingly awful
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 10, 2008, 11:54:54 AM
I think the game has potential. I'd much, much rather see a 2D Castlevania game hit the consoles though (preferablly with an Aria of Sorrow like soul system!). Considering just how high resolution 2D graphics could be on home consoles today, it's really a shame that no one wants to make them.
Also, how do we go from this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Mariarenard.jpg) to this (http://www.wiicafe.com/news/media/staff/Images/casj19.jpg)? Anime can be good, no doubt, but the art style is far inferior in this case.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2008, 12:56:10 PM
Adrock: There's still a bit of a difference between PoR's look and this, PoR is closer to the saturday morning type of anime while this is more like Soul Calibur. Also the characters still appear as apathetic and androgynous as the Kojima designs, if it hadn't been talked about so much I'd have thought it was designed by Kojima (adaption into 3d cannot be that true for paintings like that but the characters retain a fairly painted look).
Quote
Considering just how high resolution 2D graphics could be on home consoles today, it's really a shame that no one wants to make them.
I think you already found the issue there: High resolution. Sony and MS expect HD. Sprites look best when they are designed pixel perfect (otherwise you get scaling artifacts), with HD that's impossible since you can't even assume a certain resolution for the screen (and more pixels = more work). It costs too much to get proper sprites for HD graphics and it'll not be easy to get something that looks good at all resolutions (since details can't just be scaled algorithmically).
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Strell on July 10, 2008, 01:03:28 PM
Sigh.
I think I know Konami's game here. They know I am so appalled by the horrid Soul Calibur IV - wracked with Namco's extreme ambition to try and suck away every ounce of dignity from the series by populating it with bullshit anime figures and ridiculous third party characters - that I'll actually start to see CJ as "making sense" in a way, and ultimately be drawn to it.
I mean, at least the characters designs aren't laughable like SC has become.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 10, 2008, 01:05:20 PM
And? The WONDERSWAN had good games too. What we're talking about here is the PERCEPTION that the PS3 has no good games. And as we all know, perception = reality.
That's exactly what I'm arguing against: the PERCEPTION that the PS3 has no good games. The whole point of my post was that that perception is WRONG. In fact, it's not even close to true. I mean, I could also toss Folklore, Eye of Judgement, and Uncharted: Drake's Fortune onto my above list. Hell, Unreal Tournament III was PS3-exclusive until last week, when a gimped (i.e. you can't use user-made content like you can on PS3) version was released on 360. On top of that you can run out and buy non-exclusives like Burnout Paradise, Call of Duty 4, Oblivion, and Devil May Cry 4. Yeah, the PS3 has NO GAMES. Right.
Getting a $400+ system to play more-expensive HD upgrades (or "corrections" to cover previous-gen mishaps) versions of last-gen experiences is not A CUP OF TEA it's 5-6 tanks of gas, or RENT. How you managed include Motorstorm on that list is beyond me. "Critically acclaimed" is a marketable way of saying "yeah this game was pretty cool and looked good on an expensive TV" by journalists (lolz) who don't have to buy these games in the first place.
That is my extremist view.
What do expensive TVs have to do with any of this? You don't need one to play 360 or PS3. Furthermore, the phrase "critically-acclaimed" also applies to games like Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Mario Kart Wii, all of which, by the way, are upgrades of last-gen experiences.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 10, 2008, 01:14:43 PM
Quote
Hell, Unreal Tournament III was PS3-exclusive until last week
PC says hello. Anyway, the perception of "no games" comes from having mostly games with only niche appeal. Most people haven't even heard of those games. Perception may not be reality but perception drives sales. Negative perception = low sales and you know what low sales mean for a console.
Pro was probably complaining about the notion that critical acclaim is all a game needs and that failure of such games to sell is somehow the fault of the buyers rather than the fault of the seller.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 10, 2008, 06:35:40 PM
I think you already found the issue there: High resolution. Sony and MS expect HD. Sprites look best when they are designed pixel perfect (otherwise you get scaling artifacts), with HD that's impossible since you can't even assume a certain resolution for the screen (and more pixels = more work). It costs too much to get proper sprites for HD graphics and it'll not be easy to get something that looks good at all resolutions (since details can't just be scaled algorithmically).
Computer games have managed to scale well enough to differing resolutions for a long time now, including ones far higher than any television could ever hope to achieve. I think the reason is as simple as the perception that 2D graphics equal inferiority. It's kind of a backwards statement too, considering how well 2D games have held up in contrast to games from the N64, PSX, and Saturn. In general, 2D games have a style about them that tends to have a much better chances at timelessness (more or less), whereas 3D only lasts as long as the next "better" iteration comes along and marks it predecessor as primitive.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on July 10, 2008, 06:53:56 PM
Also, how do we go from this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Mariarenard.jpg) to this (http://www.wiicafe.com/news/media/staff/Images/casj19.jpg)? Anime can be good, no doubt, but the art style is far inferior in this case.
This (http://www.gamesarefun.com/games/psp/castlevaniadraculax/art02.jpg) is probably a fairer comparison, but point taken.
Any kind of anime art style just doesn't seem appropriate for the series. Still, that's not going to stop me from playing and, more importantly, buying the games. While I'm more than likely going to be buying this game, I still don't really see the point of a Castlevania fighting game. Then again, Dissisia: Final Fantasy on PSP looks phenomenal. I suppose I'd just rather have a 2D game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Deguello on July 10, 2008, 10:55:18 PM
But but silks.. in THIS THREAD you said perception is shaping reality when it comes to UBISoft dumping horrible games on the Wii.
So why is it not the case here?
Perception is shaping reality. I'm sure the PS3 has several decent games, like the 3DO and the Jaguar, even. But the perception that comes with being in last place and barely doing better than the GameCube and most sequels on the system selling less than their previous gen counterparts (GTAIV for instance. Much less) gives the impression that the Ps3 has no games that the majority value. And thus the reality that the PS3 has no games, because perception = reality.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 11, 2008, 03:34:33 AM
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So why is it not the case here?
It's not the case here because the PS3 already has a bunch of good games. Good PS3 games haven't stopped being released due to the alleged perception that gamers don't think they exist. In fact, the number of good - hell, great - PS3 games is constantly increasing, regardless of any sort of negative perception on the part of the gaming public. However, I'm guessing that a lot of people on the NWR forums don't own a PS3, so they have no reason to care or be educated about its better titles.
On the other hand, you have the Wii, which is currently getting plenty of garbage shovelware, party games, and "casual" titles, because that's what publishers believe Wii gamers want. Now THAT is perception shaping reality. For instance, do you think that Activision created its "Wee 1st" game label thanks to some consumer write-in campaign? No, it's because they believe that there isn't much money to be made in hardcore games on Wii. People on this board would surely say otherwise, yet due to publisher actions like this we're sure to see fewer hardcore games on Wii. Activision's perception of the market has thus shaped the reality of the market.
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I'm sure the PS3 has several decent games, like the 3DO and the Jaguar, even.
Congratulations, you're condescending.
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most sequels on the system selling less than their previous gen counterparts (GTAIV for instance. Much less)
GTA IV sold "much less" because the PS3 userbase is smaller than PS2. However, in terms of tie ratio, I've read that a slightly higher percentage of PS3 owners bought GTA IV than 360 owners. *shrug* If you can come up with another example of a sequel to a PS2 game that was some sort of disastrous failure on PS3, I'd love to hear it.
Sony has actually taken a lot of risks with their PS3 library by relying on several new IPs (Motorstorm, Resistance, Uncharted, Folklore, Eye of Judgement) to carry their flag, instead of relying on sequels like Nintendo (Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Metroid Prime 3) or Microsoft (Halo 3). If Nintendo relied on Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, and Okami, people would probably assume that the Wii had "no games of value" either. And of course, they would be wrong.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2008, 04:13:04 AM
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Computer games have managed to scale well enough to differing resolutions for a long time now, including ones far higher than any television could ever hope to achieve.
But they weren't 2d either. Most 2d PC games still run at 640x480.
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Any kind of anime art style just doesn't seem appropriate for the series.
I think the problem with that girl character is less the anime style and more the ridiculous design.
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instead of relying on sequels like Nintendo (Mario Galaxy, Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Metroid Prime 3) or Microsoft (Halo 3). If Nintendo relied on Zack & Wiki, No More Heroes, and Okami, people would probably assume that the Wii had "no games of value" either.
Er, you completely forgot the two biggest system sellers on the Wii: Wii Sports and Wii Fit. Supposedly Carnival Games sells a lot too. Nintendo had Mario and Zelda last gen too, the difference this time is Sports and Fit.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Mario on July 11, 2008, 11:59:05 AM
Sony far from "relied" on those games, they hid them as well as they could behind the 'big' franchise games that weren't coming out for ages and ones that didn't even exist (8 days and The Getaway). In fact, they even preferred the image of having NO games to those "new IPs", with their "PS3 will sell at launch with no games" statement.
There's a big difference between a console having good, functional, playable games, and games worth $500.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Deguello on July 11, 2008, 12:10:07 PM
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Congratulations, you're condescending.
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However, I'm guessing that a lot of people on the NWR forums don't own a PS3, so they have no reason to care or be educated about its better titles.
Congratulations, so are you. And besides, aren't you agreeing to the perception that THEY [the Jaguar and 3DO] had no good games by insinuating just the act of mentioning them in the same sentence as PS3 is an "insult?"
I think the problem here is that you believe the perception about the Wii and don't believe the perception about the PS3. But it is the truth, most 360 fans cajole the PS3 for the same thing, and same with the Wii owners, both expanded and core. The market performance of most PS3 titles has been pretty bad, which means there isn't a populist base to counter this perception. And considering the critics and the press had it against both the Wii AND the DS ever since they were announced (I remember IGN basically saying they've given more 9.0's to PSP games than DS games. Who cares? Seriously) and almost dogmatic in their support for "HD systems" (they link to two to appear unbiased) its kinda hard to take critical praise as a metric too. And hell remember that Kane and Lynch Gamespot crap? Who says that doesn't happen more often? Why do we slam these reviewers for taking kickbacks and then suddenly wholeheartedly accept their opinion without suspicion just because a few happen to agree this time? And besides, these guys are TERRIBLE at predicting future classics. Super Mario Bros. was reamed by the predominantly computer-based game reviewers.
You keep saying that "it isn't the truth" but neither is the truth about he Wii only selling shovelware. The top sellers are not predominantly shovelware, 'family' titles, 'casual' games. The most anticipated games aren't shovelware either. And besides, you are using your own game values for the judgment of what is "good" or "bad" on the PS3. The majority disagrees, therefore the majority controls the perception and... hey, guess what? Perception = Reality.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 11, 2008, 04:18:11 PM
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Congratulations, so are you. And besides, aren't you agreeing to the perception that THEY [the Jaguar and 3DO] had no good games by insinuating just the act of mentioning them in the same sentence as PS3 is an "insult?"
I think comparing the PS3 to the 3DO and Jaguar is a silly (and extreme) comparison, because the PS3 isn't a commercial failure, period. It'd be like saying the PSP has "no games" and then comparing it the the Virtual Boy.
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You keep saying that "it isn't the truth" but neither is the truth about he Wii only selling shovelware.
Where did I say the Wii ONLY sells shovelware? I said that the Wii is getting PLENTY of shovelware/family/casual games when compared to PS3 and 360, because developers believe that that's pretty much the only thing that will sell on Wii outside of Nintendo's own mega-recognized titles. It's like the GameCube all over again. Games that skew hardcore sell well, but developers pretty much ignore that and keep pumping out cartoony games because they don't think a hardcore title is worth the risk.
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And besides, you are using your own game values for the judgment of what is "good" or "bad" on the PS3. The majority disagrees, therefore the majority controls the perception and... hey, guess what? Perception = Reality.
Yes, I'm judging the PS3 titles as good or bad by my standards, but I don't have wildly different tastes from any other "hardcore" gamer out there. I've played plenty of Halo 3, CoD4, Gears of War, and Metroid Prime 3 so I can confidently say to you that, when compared to other first-person shooters/adventures on other consoles, Resistance: Fall of Man is EXCELLENT. Just like the other games I listed for PS3...I play everything across all consoles, therefore I can give you a truly informed opinion on whether or not the PS3 has a game library featuring "games of value". The same way that I can tell you that the DS' game releases this year have been ass compared to the PSP - because I actually buy and play PSP games.
I'd love to see a show of hands in this thread about people that actually own a PS3 and play it regularly. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I bet that number is really low.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2008, 04:30:04 PM
This is...somewhat...off-topic.... I fear that the NWR disease of derailing threads has spread from the forums to the staffers.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 04:33:13 PM
I own 5 PS3 games I think the system is poor when it comes to exclusives, yeah you have some great multiplatform games but when it comes to exclusives, especially quality exclusives the Wii trounces it along with the 360. The PS3 is getting better though, but I cannot say I play mine all that much mainly because most of the games I can get for it are also on 360. Even then I play my Wii more than both COMBINED. I haven't even touched many of the great Wii titles out (Heck I haven't even beat MP3 yet!).
Also we are starting to see signs of perception changing with games like Mad World and Deadly Creatures. Just like the NDS before it, it is taking time for companies to get it together.
P.S. Reisitance is perhaps the most bland FPS I've played out of the "big" titles, it is Halo but more linear with some truly rip-off character designs. It is uninspired and does nothing different from every other FPS out there.
P.S. Part 2: Deg gets my vote for most condescending. There was a poll on this right? ;)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 04:35:34 PM
This is...somewhat...off-topic.... I fear that the NWR disease of derailing threads has spread from the forums to the staffers.
BAN THEM.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 11, 2008, 04:40:58 PM
Rule of thumb for "not enough games": If you can list all games in the category easily in a post there are too few.
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I think comparing the PS3 to the 3DO and Jaguar is a silly (and extreme) comparison, because the PS3 isn't a commercial failure, period.
For a business the only valid diection is UP. To be a success the PS3 would have to match/exceed the profits made from the PS2. It doesn't seem to be on track for that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 04:43:29 PM
One thing I think we forget is that PS2 wasn't that hot of a system (game wise) until at least a year. It had some great games but not many. PS2 also had tons of shovelware as well, it is something that comes with the territory of being number 1.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Deguello on July 11, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
Well silks if it's just your opinion about what's good or bad then you should leave out things like commercial and critical success, because those are more or less objective and your own opinions are subjective.
And if that's the case you should probably remove Eye of Judgment from your list, because that game was both 1) critically panned and 2) a flop.
You are fighting here the perception that the PS3 has "no good games" which is really a coded term for "it has no games that I value." And since the PS3 is in last place both hardware and software, it's pretty obvious the majority doesn't either. Facing disagreement is not an invitation to play LISTWARZ like a Gamefaqs forum regular, nor to play "Hardcore Definition Warz" like... well... the entirety of the games press. Why you want to change people's minds about things is beyond me, and to call them "uneducated" is a bit much.
And it's funny you qualified that you "buy and play PSP games." Do you know what the perception (and statistical truth) on that machine is? It's owners don't buy games of any sort. It was the worst tie ratio in history. Here it's like 2 or 3 and in Japan it's a mind-staggering 1.8. That means that, if there are people who've played two standard deviations above the norm, like yourself, silks (you've played 5 PSP games this year and I imagine that you maybe own another) Then it is vry possible that there is a significant number of people out there, who own PSPs, and DO NOT OWN ANY GAME WHATSOEVER. Certainly girds the loins as for as the future of games for that console, eh? And you can fight THAT perception that the PSP's lineup is bad and nobody buys them anywayif you want, but you will most-assuredly be drowned out by the "uneducated" RPG fans who want FFIVDS badly and just got Etrian Odyssey 2 and The World Ends With You, by "uneducated" adventure game games who bought Apollo Justice, by "uneducated" Strategy game fans who loved Advance Wars: Days of Ruin and Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and "uneducated" fans of really obscure (and not so obscure) Atlus games like Rondo of Swords and Trauma Center 2, not to mention the wide range of games like Pokemon and FF:CC and Lost in Blue 3 and that Megaman Game uhhh... Star Force.
I know they may not be what you value, but the majority do and some will defend TO THE DEATH these games (like Bill for Apollo Justice and Myself for Trauma Center.) You are entitled to your opinions, and nobody will try to change them. But you certainly show an interest in changing their minds. Which is puzzling, to be honest.
And by the way GoldenPhoenix:
Deguello ^ This letter, that one right there, in between the first 'e' and the 'u,' is a G. Not a Q. Thank you :D
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2008, 06:38:43 PM
I'm buying Lost in Blue for the Wii. Deguello's last post just inspired me. ^_^
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 11, 2008, 06:38:48 PM
Deguello ^ This letter, that one right there, in between the first 'e' and the 'u,' is a G. Not a Q. Thank you :D
Sorry for being blind, geesh.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Mario on July 11, 2008, 09:04:32 PM
I played about two hours of Resistance last night. It's awful.
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I'd love to see a show of hands in this thread about people that actually own a PS3 and play it regularly. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I bet that number is really low.
Because most people here aren't STUPID. Refer to my previous post.
And that's why Castlevania will have 3D graphics.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on July 11, 2008, 09:32:56 PM
This thread needs less PS3 hatorade and more Castlevania pics. Remember when Simon Belmont was manly?
I've played plenty of Halo 3, CoD4, Gears of War, and Metroid Prime 3 so I can confidently say to you that, when compared to other first-person shooters/adventures on other consoles, Resistance: Fall of Man is EXCELLENT.
I'm sure it is with comparisons like that... Maybe you should try some REAL first-person shooters?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 12, 2008, 02:06:53 AM
Well guess what, this doesnt play like a traditional 3d fighter but more like a powerstone game haters rejoice!
Quote from: IGN
For starters, the game plays like Power Stone, or a vs. version of the Xbox/PS2 games from a few years back. Each player grabs a character, and runs around in a small, one-level, free-roaming arena filled with monsters, candlesticks, and a classic Castlevania backdrop. General movement is handled with the analog stick on the nunchuk, while Wii-mote waggle doe s the main attacks for each character. To add modifiers to the regular attacks, you can hold any combination of A, B, and (right now it's only working slightly, but it's there) C and Z. When pressed alone, A throws whatever sub-item you selected for your player – the list includes four for each fighter, and they are set up based on that character's style – while A and B together does an item crush that uses hearts and magic together.
There's also general double-jumps for the players you'd expect. We can only talk about playing with Simon Belmont, Dracula, Alucard, and Maria, but out of those three everyone except Dracula could double jump, with Dracula's second jump instead keeping him in the air in "hover" mode for as long as you'd like. As a few other quick observations, Alucard could use his "tetra spirits" attack, Dracula threw fireballs and the huge dark sphere attack made famous in Symphony of the Night, and Maria's jump attack and sub-items make use of her summon creatures and famous owl. With someone like Simon Belmont, players can use daggers, holy water, the boomerang cross, or throwing axe.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on July 12, 2008, 03:01:18 AM
I was about to post "What the hell happened to my thread?" but props to ShyGuy and Flames of Chaos. *respect knuckles*
Wise choice on IGA's part to not make Judgement a traditional fighting game. I'm hoping for 4-player support and multiple control options, but I won't hold my breath.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 12, 2008, 03:04:45 AM
I loved Power Stone 2 on the Dreamcast. The multi-tiered levels were great, if nothing else. I'm not sure if I like this angel as much for Castlevania though, as it was looking to be more Soul Calibur-esque in my mind.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_Lindy on July 12, 2008, 03:39:07 AM
I think Resistance is excellent. To me it has the furious twitch gameplay of an Unreal Tournament III, but it has a better story and cooler universe than, say, Halo 3. I also love the multiplayer, especially when you could get 30+ people online.
Enough derailing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 12, 2008, 04:15:41 AM
LOL I'd rather have a Soul Calibur competitor. But whateva!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Mario on July 12, 2008, 10:59:16 AM
Furious twitch gameplay isn't possible with the PS3 controller.
Which is why it's good this game is on Wii.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Kairon on July 12, 2008, 01:20:40 PM
Powerstone comparisons make me cautiously optimistic.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 12, 2008, 02:53:13 PM
This thread needs less PS3 hatorade and more Castlevania pics. Remember when Simon Belmont was manly?
And fought The Joker?
EDIT: One thing I'm kinda worried about is how hard it will be to accurately whip a candle in 3d.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 12, 2008, 05:36:10 PM
If the game plays like Powerstone then it needs to have 4-Players. The whole appeal to games like Powerstone and Smash Bros is their amazing party games with everyone going at it. Making it two player only completly destroy's that feel, and as a result would severally limit the already limited appeal this game has.
Of course the thing I don't get is if IGA is going to make this play like Powerstone, why didn't he make it like Smash Bros instead? Smash Bros and Powerstone are similar except one's 2d and the other's 3d. As we all know IGA is a big 2d fan who's only good games are all in 2d, while his 3d is poor. So why did he decide to base a Castlevania fighting game of the best 3d party fighter, instead of the best 2d party fighter which he would be better at.
Plus after the success of Brawl, a Castlevania fighter based of is Smash Bros would have a much better chance of selling, since the average person knows what Smash Bros is and might be interested in a game like it. While the Powerstone series is nothing more then a relic of the Dreamcast which only a smaller group of gamers know about.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 12, 2008, 05:41:14 PM
Exactly, nobody knows about Power Stone, and because of that nobody will know that he's ripping something off. If he did a 2D Smash Bros. clone everybody would know he's ripping something off, and I don't think he wants to be known for that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 12, 2008, 06:28:04 PM
Well I'm more optimistic and hearing it will be like Power Stone which I love. Though I am not giving my hopes up!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 12, 2008, 06:47:44 PM
I want Symphony of the Night up on WiiWare while we're at it. Xbox Live Arcade and the Playstation Network both have it, so why not WiiWare? Or better yet, add Sega Saturn support to the Virtual Console, then localized and release the far superior Japanese version.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on July 12, 2008, 08:33:35 PM
Plus after the success of Brawl, a Castlevania fighter based of is Smash Bros would have a much better chance of selling, since the average person knows what Smash Bros is and might be interested in a game like it. While the Powerstone series is nothing more then a relic of the Dreamcast which only a smaller group of gamers know about.
I would think that it'd have a worse chance of selling if it were more like Brawl. Being more like a game fewer people have played makes the game feel fresher and more unique instead of another copycat game that does everything worse and has far less variety. Still, I hope IGA doesn't draw influences from too many games and experiments more. That's what gave us Symphony of the Night and that's also why I think the 3D Castlevania titles haven't been as successful as they could have been.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 13, 2008, 04:24:56 AM
Making it too much like Brawl would make it a direct competitor to brawl which it probably doesn't have a chance against (Brawl is big name, has big name characters and Nintendo devs who also have a lot of experience with Smash Bros games). Besides, you can already use Simon in a Smash Bros-like game.
I wonder how the game design willbe used for single-player, if the controls are designed to allow free movement and attacks there might be some interesting possibilities there.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: vudu on July 13, 2008, 12:31:53 PM
Well, at least now we know why Simon Belmont isn't in Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 13, 2008, 12:36:48 PM
Simon would have made a great addition to Brawl. He could have had a fairly unique fighting style, given his whip and thrown bottle of holy water. Furthermore, he could have had an absolutely awesome level!
I want to see Sonia Belmont as an unlockable in Judgment. Oh, and Kid Dracula (young Alucard?)!!!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on July 13, 2008, 06:21:07 PM
IGA personally retconned Sonia Belmont from the series. Castlevania Legends is the only game to be completely retconned from continuity as IGA returned Circle of the Moon and both N64 games back into series canon (as side games to the main series). I like the idea of a female Belmont, but truthfully, Legends made no sense since Sonia and Alucard have a child together, meaning every successive Belmont would not only be Dracula's descendant but also completely unable to touch Vampire Killer. Yeah, fail.
This game should have a good variety of characters. Off the top of my head, there's Soma Cruz, Joachim Armster, Walter Berhard, Maxim Kischine, Stella and Loretta, Isaac, Saint Germaine, and Death.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 13, 2008, 06:26:33 PM
Sonia looked awesome in the concept art and early render from Castlevania Resurrection though!
Besides, Alucard and Sonia's child would just barely have any vampire ancestry, which would be bred out even more as the family continued.
I don't want to make an argument out of this because it's really not a big deal, but Trevor would be 1/4 vampire and even ignoring that, being of vampire ancestry would, like I said, make the Belmonts incapable of using Vampire Killer.
I never liked that art from Resurrection and I'm glad that game was canceled.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on July 13, 2008, 08:34:23 PM
I'm not arguing the math, I'm simply saying that the vampire blood would eventually be bred out of the family tree after several generations. Maybe that doesn't matter to Vampire Killer as far as canon goes, but it's not too far fetched. Sonia being retconned is why I mentioned her as an unlockable, after all.
I'm not too fond of the art either, but the design itself is nice... except for perhaps that haircut.
No qualms over Kid Dracula's inclusion? :P You're right that the game definitely needs Death though.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 14, 2008, 02:58:04 AM
Who said she had only one child? It used to be common to make as many children as you can, besides, is it certain that Sonia was the only Belmont alive at her time?
Kid Dracula could be the game's joke character.
But Maxim without Juste? Sure, Juste isn't unique in any way (except maybe that he's fucking fast if you spam dashes, slides, kicks, ...) but he's still the main character.
Maybe Christopher Belmont could be in with his fire-shooting whip. Or, well, at least Julius cause Cv needs more 50 year olds.
What about that thief guy from Cv3? What was he called?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 14, 2008, 03:05:36 AM
I'm not arguing the math, I'm simply saying that the vampire blood would eventually be bred out of the family tree after several generations.
And what do you know about Vampire blood, maybe it is super blood that cannot be bred out!
Let's just say that I know...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 14, 2008, 12:24:59 PM
And where has the Vampire Killer's functionality and origin been explained? Lament of Innocence doesn't count, cuz it's make-believe corrective garbage by Iga.
Trevor and the Belmonts shouldn't have a problem wielding it, cuz they're not vampires, they're vampire mutts. It's not necessarily the Master Sword that can't be touched by evil, and they are not evil.
And throughout its career, the Vampire Killer has mostly been a Monster Killer since Dracula is typically the only vampire you defeat in the games, while the majority of vampires fought happened to be lumped in the N64 games.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 14, 2008, 01:34:56 PM
Well, has Soma Cruz ever tried to touch Vampire Killer?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: ShyGuy on July 16, 2008, 11:22:19 PM
But Maxim without Juste? Sure, Juste isn't unique in any way (except maybe that he's ****ing fast if you spam dashes, slides, kicks, ...) but he's still the main character.
I purposefully omitted Belmonts from my list since a lot of people can't seem to think of anyone besides Belmonts, Dracula, and Alucard.
And what do you know about Vampire blood, maybe it is super blood that cannot be bred out!
One drop blood rule. Hey, it made sense in the old South.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on July 17, 2008, 01:00:25 AM
It looks better than I expected it to be and its kinda cool how there can be monsters to distract players. I can only wonder how Konami will balance this out.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 17, 2008, 03:04:32 AM
I don't like how any shake is just like a button press, they should've thought of something better there, at least react to the directions or strength.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on July 17, 2008, 03:07:13 AM
I agree KDR. That is dumb.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: BeautifulShy on July 18, 2008, 11:59:35 AM
Not so rosy impressions (http://Http://gonintendo.com/?p=49667) Rmc believes it is a early build. Do you think so?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on July 18, 2008, 01:22:53 PM
Hard to tell, I think to some degree the battles won't be high skill simply because noone has much experience with the game. Camera issues are something that can be rectified throughout the development (a bad game design cannot be fixed easily). The complaint that the characters shouldn't meet each other because of the story falls on deaf ears for me, it's a necessary step for such a game. Still, the game could easily be as lame as Bleach GC. Though "The actual fighting is at least serviceable and responsive, but it’s also uninspired. I never really felt like I was doing anything all that interesting." describes every 3d fighter IMO.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 18, 2008, 05:42:14 PM
There's no talkback thread as far as I can see, so those of you who only visit the forums may have missed the Igarashi interview (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=16557).
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Arbok on August 18, 2008, 06:15:04 PM
There's no talkback thread as far as I can see, so those of you who only visit the forums may have missed the Igarashi interview (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=16557).
Yeah, I was wondering what was up with that... kept looking in there to find a associated thread only to turn up empty handed...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 19, 2008, 03:02:14 AM
I saw it, seemed like he was dodging loads of questions.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 19, 2008, 03:28:25 AM
Nah we just wussed out on asking him questions. But I bet that is because we want future interviews right?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 19, 2008, 09:57:03 AM
Oh and I hope the DS-Wii unlocks can be reached in other ways, at least the character (14 characters is small enough, locking one away completely would be too much. Could be ignored in a 70+ character roster like KoF but not here). Of course I'll buy OoE but I don't think those who don't (o even don't have a DS) should be left out.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 20, 2008, 09:00:32 PM
Some more screenshots (http://Http://flickr.com/photos/25792657@N00/sets/72157606854738276)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 20, 2008, 10:33:22 PM
Those graphics are quite quite nice. Holy crap.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 21, 2008, 01:54:01 AM
The game has been delayed till 2009. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason behind the delay was in order to improve the game after the royal bashing it received at E3.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 21, 2008, 02:33:16 AM
That depends on whether Iga can overcome his ego and admit that some basic parts of the game are flawed (especially the low number of standard attacks along with the stupid wiimote use and the FMV supers).
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 21, 2008, 02:43:50 AM
This game can have my money if it doesn't play bad.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 21, 2008, 03:56:32 AM
That depends on whether Iga can overcome his ego and admit that some basic parts of the game are flawed (especially the low number of standard attacks along with the stupid wiimote use and the FMV supers).
Supposedly he WAS disappointed with how it played and wasn't too happy with the project.
But again, if the game was delayed till 2009 then I'm sure the bashings and poor impressions made it happen. Hell, don't be surprised if Classic and GC controller support is added.
This might be Konami's biggest Wii project yet, even if its a spin off. They can't afford to mess it up.
I say they should take as long as they need in order to make it work.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Mario on August 21, 2008, 11:49:47 AM
Sorry but Elebits is bigger than a niche spinoff of a dead franchise.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 21, 2008, 12:11:07 PM
... AHAHA, haven't seen the DS Castlevania games? PFF dead franchise nothing.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 21, 2008, 12:47:39 PM
Strange, I could swear that I posted a comment about how they should not drop the Wiimote (as GC and classic controller support would imply) but instead design the game to make better use of it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on August 21, 2008, 12:50:28 PM
Strange, I could swear that I posted a comment about how they should not drop the Wiimote (as GC and classic controller support would imply) but instead design the game to make better use of it.
Better use of it by using motion plus? I'd be cool with that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 21, 2008, 03:10:32 PM
Not even necessarily that, there's a lot of things that can be done even without MP that go beyond making "move the wiimote" act as a button.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 21, 2008, 03:30:41 PM
Strange, I could swear that I posted a comment about how they should not drop the Wiimote (as GC and classic controller support would imply) but instead design the game to make better use of it.
Not saying they should drop the Wii controls, but I do expect Konami implementing classic controls just to please some people who thought the game was too much waggle.
And yes, if Castlevania is a dead franchise, Megaman, Mario, Zelda, Pac-Man etc. must be on life support.
The side scrolling games continue to sell and gather INCREDIBLE reviews from fans and the media. If the franchise is dead no one didn't notice.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on August 21, 2008, 06:16:10 PM
Those screenshots revealed a new playable character. Aeon?
Strange, I could swear that I posted a comment about how they should not drop the Wiimote (as GC and classic controller support would imply) but instead design the game to make better use of it.
Like No More Heroes.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: BeautifulShy on August 21, 2008, 08:04:41 PM
Yes Adrock it does show that. I really like the shot with Maria and the Tiger,Dragon and Phoenix.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on August 22, 2008, 02:09:08 AM
If it's done properly Wiimote support cannot be replaced with a button since it's analog input (anyone who tries to use analog BUTTONS that don't have a huge GC-like travel distance should be shot in the face). When the movement of the 'mote just triggers a button input it's being used wrong.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 22, 2008, 05:34:43 AM
The gameplay videos look like a huge pile of crap.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 29, 2008, 06:55:05 PM
Now normally I wouldn't be one to complain about something like character designs, but now Takeshi Obata has gone too far.
http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/dracula_wii/
What the **** has he done to Eric? Maria's design was already atrocious enough but Erics is just, words cannot describe the RAGE!!!
Did IGA even show Obata what the characters originally looked like? Because what Obata's designed now is Death Note characters trying to cosplay as Castlevania characters and doing a poor job at it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 29, 2008, 07:12:59 PM
Yeah hope it bombs.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on September 29, 2008, 10:08:37 PM
What the **** has he done to Eric? Maria's design was already atrocious enough but Erics is just, words cannot describe the RAGE!!!
Well, I think you're overreacting.
*looks at website*
When did Eric become a 13 year old girl?
Ugh, the fact that this game is probably going to be ass hasn't hit me yet since Order of Ecclesia isn't out. When there's no "real" Castlevania to look forward to, it'll be time to weep about Judgement.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on September 30, 2008, 06:16:32 AM
Um, where? I see no new screenshots.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 30, 2008, 11:54:21 AM
Art in the character roster.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on September 30, 2008, 01:31:02 PM
Oh, okay, that requires Flash to see...
Yep, definitely a girl. Quite the hourglass figure there. Cue the Eric x Bridget doujinshi...
Oh and Death without robe = fail. That design looks more like an Akuma from D.Gray-Man than the grim reaper, especially with those legs.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 30, 2008, 02:42:39 PM
I'd rather have Grim from the Adventures of Billy & Mandy.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 30, 2008, 04:48:07 PM
Well since the topic is alive again I'll just post this for the hell of it. Out of the 14 character roster these are the characters that are confirmed.
Simon Dracula Death Alucard Maria Eric Aeon
According to rumors, here's the other seven characters. Even though it's just a rumor, as we all know sometime rumored character list (coughMeleecoughBrawl) can come true
Cornell Carmilla Trevor Sypha Grant Golem Shoana
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 30, 2008, 04:49:32 PM
Leon LLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
OH C'MON, WHERE IS SONIA
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 30, 2008, 08:54:28 PM
Eric, it's Eric. That damn new Aeon character, I keep wanting to say Leon since there is an actual character in the Castlevania series named Leon.
So it's Eric and Aeon. Forget you ever read Leon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on September 30, 2008, 11:29:56 PM
I thought Shanoa was confirmed.
Also, no Richter even rumored? Odd.....
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Caliban on October 01, 2008, 12:03:24 AM
"Shanoa will appear as an unlockable character in the 3D fighting game Castlevania: Judgment for the Wii. She is unlocked through a wii connection option from the game Order of Ecclesia for the Nintendo DS." - http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Shanoa
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 01, 2008, 02:57:47 AM
What would differ between Richter and Simon? Most of the Belmonts would play the same and just look different. The secondary characters probably make more sense since they differ.
Also I'm saddened by the lack of AoS characters (Alucard doesn't count), surely Soma would bring something new to the table? Of course he can't really be in the same time as Dracula but hey, the other characters don't respect their timelines either so why not?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: BeautifulShy on October 07, 2008, 03:32:54 PM
What would differ between Richter and Simon? Most of the Belmonts would play the same and just look different. The secondary characters probably make more sense since they differ.
What would differ between Mario and Luigi? A lot apparently.
I mentioned Richter because in terms of major characters, outside of Death and Dracula, he's in the most Castlevania games, sometimes for no explicable reason.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 08, 2008, 01:29:22 AM
They're still fairly close in SSBM, that game has tons of characters so a near-dupe doesn't matter much but with 14 characters you'd hope they'd all be significantly different.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 09, 2008, 06:23:32 PM
No they aren't. Mario and Luigi play completely different despite similar movesets with Luigi being a far superior character in my opinion. Regardless, the original Smash Bros. had 12 characters.
Anyway, just because all the Belmonts use the same weapon, doesn't mean that can't be completely different characters.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 10, 2008, 08:27:37 AM
Of course, if the game doesn't shape up a lot before release that won't really matter.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 10, 2008, 11:36:00 AM
This is basically the new Toshinden.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 10, 2008, 03:20:35 PM
Except Toshinden actually had people who weren't all negative about it, eh?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 10, 2008, 04:09:13 PM
Things were different back then.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on October 11, 2008, 12:40:23 PM
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 11, 2008, 01:57:43 PM
New Trailer from TGS
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41352.html
Shows that Shanoa is indeed in the game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on October 11, 2008, 02:07:38 PM
That looked a lot better than before I think.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 11, 2008, 05:04:19 PM
I just read that if you go to the 2:25 mark on the newest trailer, during the scene where Shanoa is doing her super attack her you can see that her opponents lifebar says Carmilla. Well I just checked it out and it indeed does say Carmilla, which means Carmilla is a playable character.
Now this is interesting since the rumored list said Carmilla would be playable, and now she is. Makes me wonder if that rumor list really is the real deal then.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 11, 2008, 06:08:56 PM
2:38 shows a Minotaur with a life guage. They could be bosses.
Also, that headdress that Shanoa is wearing kind of makes her look like a nun... a sexy nun... not sure how I feel about that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Morari on October 11, 2008, 09:04:10 PM
2:38 shows a Minotaur with a life guage. They could be bosses.
The thing is the Minotaur doesn't have one of those artwork profile pictures next to his name. If you look at the one with Carmilla, there's an artwork profile picture next to her like the other playable characters have.
To me, if Carmilla was just a boss I don't see why they'd give her one of those artwork profiles, while they wouldn't for another boss like Minotaur.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 12, 2008, 10:03:02 PM
That crossed my mind. I have a number of different possible responses (such as the Minotaur being a generic enemy). I'm not saying Carmilla isn't/won't be playable. I guess I just can't figure out why Carmilla. There are better characters........
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2008, 02:18:17 AM
How many are there, really? Especially on the evil side (I expect them to want some evil characters for castle mode)? There have been tons of good guys throughout the series but most bad guys are pretty boring (and I don't think the ones that were just being controlled by Dracula would fit in either), Dracula and Death are already a significant fraction of the evil cast in each game, in many cases even the whole evil cast. Carmilla at least has a more interesting design than "another guy in a business suit".
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on October 13, 2008, 02:20:23 AM
Well they could have included some of the bosses from the CV games like Medusa and others. They'd have to redesign them a bit to get them to fit but there is still plenty to choose from.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2008, 03:19:09 AM
Seems to me like those bosses will be included (but not as playable characters) anyway.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Stogi on October 13, 2008, 04:43:56 AM
This game looks terrible. It really makes me want to cry every time I see a video of it.
Why does this have to be the first Castlevania to hit a Nintendo console in more than a generation?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 13, 2008, 03:46:02 PM
You make it sound like it would have been better if the PS2 Cvs came to a Nintendo console first...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 13, 2008, 06:38:51 PM
How many are there, really? Especially on the evil side (I expect them to want some evil characters for castle mode)?
Shaft, Walter, Joachim, Isaac, Graham, Succubus, Celia, Dmitri, Dario, Olrox, Dullahan, Brauner and (if you want to count them as evil) Stella and Loretta to name a few......
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 14, 2008, 09:37:48 PM
Ok, well that settles that. Carmilla is playable and she's 70% boob and a dead ringer for Soulcalibur's Ivy (where's her giant skull?). Then, there's another new character: Golem. Again, like I said above, there are better characters... not to mention, more relevant.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2008, 09:41:42 PM
I don't think relevance was in the design spec for this game.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 14, 2008, 10:01:13 PM
Perhaps. Then again, why Simon Belmont and not Christopher? Simon is clearly a more relevant character. I'm not trying to start a debate; I'm just curious. I suppose the best answer is that there is no answer
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 15, 2008, 12:18:27 AM
Konami is BONKERS.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 15, 2008, 02:00:58 PM
Well looks like the rumor list was true after all. Considering Carmilla and Golem were the most obscure characters on that list and they've ended up confirmed, it's pretty safe to say that Cornell, Trevor, Sypha and Grant are in as well.
Looks like IGA let his Castlevania 3 fanboyism get the better of him then. Castlevania 3 is a great game and all, but it doesn't deserve to have it's entire cast playable. Not when characters like Richter and Soma who're a lot more important to the overall series get ignored.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 15, 2008, 03:17:43 PM
Also Soma would just be plain awesome to play. Meh, I guess I should be happy he doesn't get to ruin those characters too...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Nick DiMola on October 15, 2008, 03:58:07 PM
It's a scary proposition: taking a beloved series like Castlevania and dropping its familiar adventure formula in favor of one on one fighting. But that's what Konami has done with Castlevania Judgment. Fortunately for series fans, the developers are giving players plenty of content to sink their fangs into. The depth starts with the character roster; in addition to previously revealed warriors...the game features Trevor Belmont, Sypha Belnades, Grant DaNasty (all from CV-III), Eric Lecarde (from Bloodlines), werewolf Cornell (from CV: Legacy of Darkness) and a few villains, including time-manipulating newcomer Aeon. The game has plenty of modes, too; there are personalized story modes for each warrior, plus you can engage in traditional Arcade, Versus and Survival Modes, as a well as a Castle mode in which you proceed through Dracula's abode, floor by floor, while dealing with certain restrictions. And if you're not convinced that swinging a Wii remote is the best way to beat the Count, worry not; you can also play using the GameCube or Classic Controller.
Well it's nice to see that the game will at least support Gamecube and Classic controls, since according to most reports the Wiimote motions controls made the game play like ass.
Of course how much the Gamecube and Classic controls will improve the game is yet to be seen. If the overall gameplay ends up bad, then no amount of traditional controls will fix that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on October 16, 2008, 08:15:50 PM
Well it's nice to see that the game will at least support Gamecube and Classic controls, since according to most reports the Wiimote motions controls made the game play like ass.
Hey, that's funny. I thought Judgment being a fighting game made it play like ass.
And I love how Konami showed a X360/PS3 teaser at TGS too. I guess I'll go back to thinking that a 2D Castlevania game is coming to the Wii...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on October 17, 2008, 05:42:31 AM
Well Amazon already dropped this to 39.99 so if you want to pick it up, you might want to pick it up from there.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on October 17, 2008, 10:12:38 AM
I guess thes aren't going for a higher retail price then. Probably a good idea, many third parties seem to price their games at 60€ while Nintendo goes for 50€... 40€ seems like the right price for this game though it's still likely that the price will go up here...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 04, 2008, 03:14:24 PM
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: vudu on November 04, 2008, 03:18:41 PM
Oh, come on! Is that really necessary? It breaks up the page flow horribly. Can't you just link to Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5076153/castlevania-judgments-final-three-revealed) next time?
Also, what in god's name have they done to Grant?!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: EasyCure on November 04, 2008, 03:45:26 PM
was that Voldo (third pic down)???
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 04, 2008, 03:47:29 PM
It does look kinda good.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 04, 2008, 03:50:08 PM
Polygons are just about the only thing Konami can manage.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 04, 2008, 04:01:20 PM
Nope that was cornell the mechanical looking thing with claws.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: EasyCure on November 04, 2008, 04:21:20 PM
yet it looks like Voldo if they took off the headgear and revealed it was an emo-girl.
I don't even know who Cornell is but i still wanna say "wtf?"
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 04, 2008, 04:56:12 PM
Cornell = werewolf protagonist from N64 CV director's cut.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 04, 2008, 04:58:42 PM
Yeah, Grant definitely looks like Voldo.
I wonder if this game will end up being Castlevania's Star Wars Christmas Special...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 04, 2008, 05:41:38 PM
I wonder if this game will end up being Castlevania's Star Wars Christmas Special...
Well for that to happen they need to pull a scamco and invite darth vader, broken yoda and starkiller from soul calibur 4 to the party.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 04, 2008, 06:05:19 PM
Throw in Heihachi, Mickey Mouse, Master Higgins, and Indiana Jones and call it a day.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 19, 2008, 02:31:28 AM
Bump, it's out in the jungle guys.
IGN gave it a 7.5. I'm interested in this pretty much because I like fighters. So does anyone wanna be the first penguin in the dark waters? I don't have the money right now.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on November 19, 2008, 03:14:50 AM
IGN gave it a 7.5. I'm interested in this pretty much because I like fighters. So does anyone wanna be the first penguin in the dark waters? I don't have the money right now.
I actually may get it now. So it MAY be me
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Infernal Monkey on November 19, 2008, 03:49:28 AM
I'll probably pick this up when it gets a PAL release late next year; game gives me a real MACE: The Dark Age vibe for lol.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 19, 2008, 09:57:02 AM
IGN gave it a 7.5. I'm interested in this pretty much because I like fighters. So does anyone wanna be the first penguin in the dark waters? I don't have the money right now.
I actually may get it now. So it MAY be me
We should have a Nintendo WiFi night with this title since there is online play. Amazon.com still has a 10 dollar discount on this game so it's your best chance if you want to spend 39.99 on it.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Stogi on November 19, 2008, 10:23:51 AM
I'll probably pick this up when it gets a PAL release late next year; game gives me a real MACE: The Dark Age vibe for lol.
HOLY ****! I misss that game so much. My brothers and I use to play it day in and day out. There were so many great characters, like that arab dude that could summon sand storms.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 19, 2008, 01:56:58 PM
Well the reviews so far make the game sound like it turned out decent. I'll probably buy it then when it drops to $20 sometime next year.
Of course the music to the game should be uploaded on Youtube sometime this week so that's something I'm looking forward too. The thing I've wanted to know the most about this game is what tracks made it in and how they were remixed.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 20, 2008, 03:27:20 PM
Castlevania Judgment - retail release details
14+ characters 10+ stages Wiimote + Nunchuck, Classic Controller, or Cube controller 10 subweapons Character-specific Story mode 1P, initially only Simon and Alucard are selectable Unlock other characters as you progress the story Can earn equipable accessories earn art for the gallery earn music for the player Arcade mode (1P) Castle mode (1P only, kill Dracula) Versus mode (2P or CPU) Survival (1P) Training mode (practice) Tutorial mode (beginner, intermediate, advanced guides) Accessories (accessorize your characters) Gallery (art and music) Connect to DS (gain instant access to Shanoa and Aeon, both of which can also be unlocked via Story mode) WiFi menu (friend battles, rivals battles, normal matches, ranked matches)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: DAaaMan64 on November 20, 2008, 04:03:05 PM
I'm pretty interested honestly. Anyone get it yet?
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on November 20, 2008, 05:46:33 PM
The voice acting is about what you'd expect out of a Castlevania game. The only difference is that it's not funny bad like in Symphony of the Night, it's "I want to punch Maria's voice actress in the face" bad. I guess some characters should just not talk, like Tinkerbell.... oh, wait... nevermind.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 20, 2008, 10:29:47 PM
it's "I want to punch Maria's voice actress in the face" bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYTPWAavALg
Great, so not only did they have to make Maria look just like Misa, she now acts just like her as well. I wonder if IGA is one of the five Misa fans that exist in the world then.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 21, 2008, 01:16:47 AM
The voice acting is about what you'd expect out of a Castlevania game. The only difference is that it's not funny bad like in Symphony of the Night, it's "I want to punch Maria's voice actress in the face" bad. I guess some characters should just not talk, like Tinkerbell.... oh, wait... nevermind.
I didn't find SotN particularly funny either, it just sounds like Alucard has a cold...
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 21, 2008, 05:04:05 PM
Alright I got this in the mail today Amazon Prime 1 month free trial FTW!!
And here are my impressions after playing a few matches and exploring the online options
Okay out of all the control schemes my favorite by far is Wii remote and Nunchuk type B, (Type A an C makes wii remote shaking your primary attack and it doesn't feel good) in type B it your main attack is B and wii remote shakes are only used for your special finisher (when your special gauge is full) and a more powerful version of your A+B attack and the nunchuk shake allows you to do a dodge.
Gamecube and Classic Controllers are fine just some of the button commands are a bit weird so you would have to experiment which control type you would prefer the most unfortunately I didn't find any way to completely customize the controls but in general with the 3 types that each control style has (wii remote+chuck, classic, gamecube). For people who like using dpads apparently the dpad is disabled in the game with an exception the down on the wii remote which either fires your subweapon or hyper attack(depending on what control type you pick) but the good news is that there is really no need for it. Speaking of control types you can't change between styles A,B or C mid match but only in the main game menu which is a pain but it saves your control preferences so you don't have to change them each time you boot up the game or your save file(the game has 3 save files as odd as that sounds for a fighting game), and luckily there is a seperate control profile for wii remote+chuck, Classic and gamecube controllers which is nice .
Before I move on to game play I do have to note one semi-annoying thing, if you want to play with Wii remote and nunchuk or Classic Controllers DO NOT have a gamecube controller or a wave bird receiver in controller slot 1 or 2 because the game will assume that you will be using a gamecube controller because the game senses controller changes automatically (during the middle of the fight you can change between controller types just by plugging in what controller you want).
Now as far as gameplay, it's a shallow fighter so don't expect this game to be something like street fighter, virtua fighter and so forth. This game reminds me a lot of powerstone and the gamecube/wii naruto fighting games because the combo system while fairly simplistic it's satisfying and very fun. The game is a full 3d fighter and it doesn't snap you on a 2d pane so you will have full 3d movement in the fighter like powerstone does. Each level has hazards like enemies, enviromental effects, spiked floors, poisonous water, guillotines and those swinging axes on a chain all of them are typical Castlevania hazards you would find in the games. In story mode you can't turn them off but for versus matches it asks you if you want to turn hazards on or off. Some of the AI is cheap but beatable and the game is balanced in general but some characters are simply better than another or like how some fighting game enthusiast would group fighters in tiers.
The graphics are actually quite nice for a Wii title featuring full widescreen with no black bars there is also a deflicker option for people who want to turn it on or off, and the game runs at a smooth 60FPS. The graphical effects for each finisher and special looks awesome. The stages look fine and all of them are quite big and roomy each stage is different enough to make them feel unique. If you hate the english voice acting there is an option for Japanese voice acting.
The options for online is very robust for a Wii game, but it still has a traditional matchmaking system you can set it to look for matches in your local continent or worldwide. I played about 3 matches and I experienced some small lag but nothing game breaking. Since the game does have 3 save slots I don't know if each save shares the same friend code or generates a different one since I didn't bother testing it.
The game is a pretty good package with some minor gripes and it looks like IGA and his dev team put a lot of care into it, for a "fanfare" type of game it's a really good one and it's a fun light hearted fighting game with a solid single player, online and multiplayer modes. Its a 3rd party game done right and a fighting game done right on the Wii whether if you use Wii controls or traditional controls.
EDIT: If any one is wondering, the DS connectivity unlocks Shanoa, Aeon and a couple of items and accessories. The data transfer take like 2 seconds so it looks like that it's just a simple unlock code. I wasn't paying attention on my DS screen if it unlocked anything in Order of Ecclasia.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on November 22, 2008, 03:14:49 AM
I didn't find SotN particularly funny either, it just sounds like Alucard has a cold...
The opening dialog between Richter and Dracula is pure comedy.
"What is a man? A miserable little pile of semen.... I mean, secrets."
I can go to the nearest bus stop and find "voice actors" too.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 22, 2008, 04:31:34 AM
That was more a terrible translation than terrible voice acting. The least funny part of the translation was spike breaker being translated as spear breaker in German since that makes it sound more like a regular armor with a fancy name than an item that actually does something special.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 22, 2008, 05:35:42 PM
Quote
If you hate the english voice acting there is an option for Japanese voice acting.
Oh thank God. Norio Wakamoto as Dracula and Ryotaro Okiayu as Alucard FTW!!!
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 22, 2008, 09:23:16 PM
Maria has the best dialog in the game especially when she fights female opponents. She compares her breasts to others and she calls them stuff like sacred gifts and other funny things. Click here for the epic dialog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYTPWAavALg)
Also if anyone is interested Here is how the special finishers look like (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRIVrKdmirE&NR=1)
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on November 22, 2008, 10:03:07 PM
Ugh, I finally played this game. Not terribly impressed so far. The CG is nice though.
That was more a terrible translation than terrible voice acting.
It has both. A better translation would still sound just as hilarious with the original voice actors. It's like they don't know what inflection is or at least, which words should be stressed in a sentence. But, I digress, if you don't find it funny, I'm not going to try to convince you.
"No, mother!"
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 23, 2008, 02:38:04 AM
Heh, compare that to the terrible G4 review that complained Dracula is completely underpowered since he has zero defense against aerial attacks.
Wow what the heck were they playing, Dracula has a lot of defense against regular attacks but not so much against hard hitting specials, and aerial attacks in the game are special especially the ones where you hold down a button to charge it up. I'm just surprised that G4 didn't mention anything about the online mode. The controls aren't bad at all but compared to other fighters the Classic Controller/Gamecube button configurations are a bit odd.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 23, 2008, 10:59:11 AM
I'm more surprised that none of them mentions that you can configure it to use a button for regular attacks in wiimote+nunchuk mode too. Maybe I'm just imagining it but I thought G4 said the online is as laggy as other fighting games but it doesn't matter because the game sucks so much anyway.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 23, 2008, 12:01:52 PM
I'm more surprised that none of them mentions that you can configure it to use a button for regular attacks in wiimote+nunchuk mode too. Maybe I'm just imagining it but I thought G4 said the online is as laggy as other fighting games but it doesn't matter because the game sucks so much anyway.
The game is quite good if you enjoyed the gamecube/wii naruto fighting games, smash bros, and powerstone. It's not a deep game by any means but my huge impressions post should answer all potential questions that people have. And you don't even need to use wii remote and nuchuk since you have gamecube and Classic Control support and all 3 control schemes are fine! If you hate control style A each configuration has 3 styles. The only thing I will agree on with G4 is that each fighter has practically the same exact button combos for special moves. But then again so did powerstone and the naruto fighting games on Nintendo platforms and Super Smash Bros yet no one bitched about them with that con.
Edit: Even though each fighter has practically the same button combos for moves, they all play differently enough to make a difference, some people are slower, some are faster, some excel in melee, some excel in range, some excel in slower but stronger hits, some excel in lighter damage but are far more speedy. Like I said it's fairly balanced but like any other fighter or brawler there are "Tiers". The only thing each character has in common is that the special finisher takes out about 50% of the health meter (not current health but total health).
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Monteblanco on November 23, 2008, 04:15:00 PM
Actually, SSBB showed me I prefer to use the remote+nunchuck over the classic or gamecube controler. I feel more confortable to have my hands far apart and resting wherever I want.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 23, 2008, 05:05:24 PM
Maybe some reviewers just saw that people on the internets hated the character designs and the previews were negative so they figured the users want a negative review and gave them that.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on November 23, 2008, 05:18:27 PM
Maybe some reviewers just saw that people on the internets hated the character designs and the previews were negative so they figured the users want a negative review and gave them that.
Probably because we all know IGA/Konami giving the character design to the Death Note designer is raping the series. :rolleyes: If Konami raped the series because of that then Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin deserve a bad scores since character design and only character dictates how awesome a game is :rolleyes:.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: KDR_11k on November 24, 2008, 03:51:21 AM
DoS and PoR at least implemented the old designs with less detailling, they didn't e.g. replace Death with a freaking Akuma from D.Gray-Man or turn Yoko into a loli. I meant I think the reviewers base their target score on the internet hype so they give users "what the users want", i.e. if users hate a game then the reviewer will give it a bad review since otherwise the users will complain.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 26, 2008, 01:48:11 PM
I honestly can't wait to try this game out. I've already played and enjoyed games the media tells me to "hate" (Dragonquest Swords, Link's Bowgun Training, Wii Play), so adding one to the list wouldn't kill me.
One question to CV fanatics...is Maria Renard supposed to be a loli? I've seen artwork of her, including some Chibi ones and don't know which one is supposed to be canon.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 26, 2008, 02:16:47 PM
Maria was loli in Rondo of Blood (maybe younger). She grew her boom-booms by the time Symphony of the Night came along. Since she appears at different ages in the series, we should've been given a playable grown-up foxy Maria. I wonder how Kornamee will mess that up.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NWR_pap64 on November 26, 2008, 02:22:48 PM
Maria was loli in Rondo of Blood (maybe younger). She grew her boom-booms by the time Symphony of the Night came along. Since she appears at different ages in the series, we should've been given a playable grown-up foxy Maria. I wonder how Kornamee will mess that up.
Especially since little Maria is upset about her boom booms...
Really, her jokes in Judgment all have to do with boob size. But its a fighting game, so the fan service is needed for the sake of fap.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 26, 2008, 05:02:34 PM
One question to CV fanatics...is Maria Renard supposed to be a loli? I've seen artwork of her, including some Chibi ones and don't know which one is supposed to be canon.
Well she was a young girl in Rondo of Blood, but the difference is she was a nice and sweet young girl. The loli they're using in Judgement now is anything but nice and sweet.
Like I said, the Mario in Judgement is Maria in name only. Her personality is completely different from anything in any of the cannon storylines.
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: Adrock on November 26, 2008, 06:06:46 PM
Shanoa is by far the best character in the game though I haven't unlocked Death or Dracula.
Well she was a young girl in Rondo of Blood, but the difference is she was a nice and sweet young girl. The loli they're using in Judgement now is anything but nice and sweet.
Mainly because all she does is spam that bicycle kick. Stupid kids....
Title: Re: Castlevania Judgement... not what anyone expected ever... EVER
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on November 26, 2008, 07:40:44 PM
