Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
Title: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mashiro on March 12, 2008, 09:21:44 PM
As to not derail another thread I want to hear your opinions on which game you enjoy more and why.
I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.
For some reason, I don't get that joy from Brawl. I don't care about the stickers or trophies this time around. I just wanted to get all the unlockable characters and stages and be done with it just so I could use them all in multiplayer modes.
The fighting isn't as fun either for some reason. Maybe it's the slower speed or maybe it's the more "floaty" feel to the game but I can't get into the game like I get into Melee.
The items too don't stand out as much as they used to in Melee (minus the final smash orb). Too many items just seem to get "lost" in the stage design and many of them are so small they are hard to decipher when in a multiplayer match.
The online play is disappointing at best and really makes me wish Nintendo would have copied Microsoft with it's online structure.
If anything killed this title for me it was the delays. I just don't get that feeling of "Ohhhh this is why they needed the extra time" with this title.
The stages are the only aspect of the game that I say are (overall) better than Melee.
The roster also leaves a lot to be desired and all this extra time going into the game doesn't seem to have been well spent in terms of making unique characters.
I guess in the end it's hard for a game like Brawl to live up to the hype but that still doesn't make up for the fact that Melee felt more enjoyable of an experience.
Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Shecky on March 12, 2008, 09:45:26 PM
I just played 1on1 for an hour and liked it a lot... played a few slightly laggy matches online with S_B and (calib?) once two and remember when I DK bongo'd them both as they tried to seek shelter from lava on Norfair.... There have been a lot of funny moments... that I've rather enjoyed. If I can get 4 ppl in one room this will be a blast.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Adrock on March 12, 2008, 09:48:35 PM
I was wowed more by Melee than I am with Brawl now. I suppose the Smash dojo spoiled a lot, but at the same time, I feel that Melee was a much larger jump in terms of well, practically everything.
As you probably know by now, Subspace Emissary just didn't do it for me. Too many reasons why. And too many reasons why it should have been scrapped for more of what series fans really wanted.
Ultimately, they should have focused strictly on multiplayer, like Miyamoto wanted. Comparatively, Melee did much more in terms of refining the gameplay without disrupting the core. For example, the addition of charged smash attacks and an improved defense system among other things made the game feel completely different. I, personally, felt that it was nothing like the original. I had to essentially learn a new game and I didn't mind because Melee did all the new things well.
Brawl is very, very close to Melee in almost every way. The Smash Ball and Assist Trophies are interesting additions, but don't change the gameplay as much as the charged smash attacks did or 4 directional throws in Melee did.
Over the years, I've heard and even came up with a couple interesting gameplay additions I felt could have spiced things up in a new Smash Bros. I could give examples but I don't want to derail Mashiro's topic (if he gives the okay, I'll go over a few of them). The ideas are there, fans have talked about them for years and most of them, I'd say, still fit into the simple yet deep gameplay that Smash Bros. provides. It's these kinds of gameplay additions and refinements that's really missing from Brawl to set it apart from Melee.
As a fan of innovation and new gameplay mechanics that really change the fundamentals of a game, I'd say Melee was more fun than Brawl. At the same time, Brawl, so far, has remedied Melee's one glaring flaw: its unbalanced gameplay which, in the long run, may give it the edge.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 09:55:03 PM
You know it's been like... 4 days right? Don't you think your jumping the gun?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 12, 2008, 09:56:27 PM
You know it's been like... 4 days right? Don't you think your jumping the gun?
I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 12, 2008, 10:02:38 PM
Brawl. The fights flow much better, and are much more fun in general.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Ceric on March 12, 2008, 10:03:41 PM
Brawl draws me to finish more of it than Melee does but, that has a lot to do with the little board that tells me what I need to do. Which I like having the extra oomph. I liike the Co-op modes and I like the variable difficulty in Event mode. The large amount of music is good. I also like the better range of moves on most of the characters.
Though I think Melee is at its core the better of the two. I just like how it does things better.
Thinking about this I really think a lot of the inconsistancy through Brawl is due to the size of the development team and how it kept changing. There was nothing tieing them together. It shows.
A jack of all trades is master of none. I think as an overall package Melee is of a higher quality standard. In individual areas Brawl is better than Melee but there are to many inconsistancy, lost opportunities, and bad decisions. For the time and the talk Brawl would be like a diamond that is only chipped and polished on one side.
I have to say that Brawl is to Melee what Kingdom of Hearts 2 is to Kingdom of Hearts.
You know this is hard.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Adrock on March 12, 2008, 10:14:16 PM
Thinking about this I really think a lot of the inconsistancy through Brawl is due to the size of the development team and how it kept changing. There was nothing tieing them together. It shows.
A jack of all trades is master of none. I think as an overall package Melee is of a higher quality standard. In individual areas Brawl is better than Melee but there are to many inconsistancy, lost opportunities, and bad decisions. For the time and the talk Brawl would be like a diamond that is only chipped and polished on one side.
I agree.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 12, 2008, 10:28:36 PM
You know it's been like... 4 days right? Don't you think your jumping the gun?
I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).
Quote
I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.
So far I completely disagree, there are in-consistencies in the game. But they tried hard to make something new, they didn't intend us to think they were being lazy, they just had a different vision. I find this game much more balanced then Melee, for example, the heavy characters actually feel usable in this one. I am at a point now where I can't find my best character, and I think that is because, the best cannot be picked out so easily.
This game is rock solid awesome for hours to come.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mikintosh on March 12, 2008, 11:55:11 PM
You know it's been like... 4 days right? Don't you think your jumping the gun?
I don't think that is fair. You pretty much know what much of the game is like, at least in the way of content (Like roster and single player modes).
Yeah, but you're judging an instant impression of Brawl (well instant on the "years" scale) based on almost a decade of Melee.
And based on what I've played of Brawl, I'd give it a nod above Melee. It fixes everything wrong with its predecessor, has more characters, items, and stages than Melee, has a solid 1-player mode which is leagues beyond Adventure mode, and controls the same, which means there isn't a single aspect of Melee which makes it superior. I'll grant Melee was a bigger evolutionary jump than Brawl, but that's not the question here.
I'd really like to know...what's this amorphous "core" quality you people are speaking of? It's fine to have your own opinion, but the "why" is right there in the question. Is there some glaring flaw I'm missing during all the fun?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Dasmos on March 13, 2008, 12:04:57 AM
I don't need to play Brawl to know it's better than Melee. Melee was a broken pile of confusion.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 13, 2008, 01:00:05 AM
Melee all day long.
Brawl is too damned slow. Plus we have a round up of characters, none of which are particularly good at finishing off an enemy. It feels like you really need to get the damage meter above 100 for most people to really finish someone off. This also ties into my next point, jumping/gravity is too floaty. It gets really annoying for me, especially after playing Melee for all these years.
Lets see, what else bugs me? The mid air dodge is too flexible now. In Melee there was a tactic involved there. You could hit it and avoid a real devastating smash, but you were still vulnerable after, so you really had to weigh your options. With the mid air dodge in Brawl, you can just keep tapping the damn thing and avoid everything. It really takes the interesting part of the move away.
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones. Plus you can't really use it in a serious match. It doesn't really take any skill and due to it's traversal about the map, someone getting stomped in the match can hit it and win a match without even trying.
Now I will give Brawl some credit; it did fix some of my issues with Melee. The roster is definitely more balanced (and clearly better), and all of the "advanced" moves (aka wavedashing, etc) seem to be impossible now due to the shift of execution with the mid air dodge. In addition, the music, levels and single player experience are also much better. Plus the stage builder is made of pure win.
I just think that Melee was a much more enjoyable experience and felt much cleaner than Brawl. I know that as the years pass, Melee will be first pick for me when choosing a Smash game to play.
I'd really like to know...what's this amorphous "core" quality you people are speaking of? It's fine to have your own opinion, but the "why" is right there in the question. Is there some glaring flaw I'm missing during all the fun?
I think this all depends on how much you played Melee. If you didn't really play it too much (or somewhat competitively), I'm not sure the difference would be that obvious. There is just something inexplicably different between the two. It very well may be just a personal preference that has developed after playing for so long with Melee, but whatever it is, it isn't a welcome difference. The game just feels different, and personally, I don't like that.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 13, 2008, 01:10:12 AM
I just think that Melee was a much more enjoyable experience and felt much cleaner than Brawl. I know that as the years pass, Melee will be first pick for me when choosing a Smash game to play.
I was thinking of saying "Well, good luck with that", since people are slowly moving away from Melee, but then I remembered that there are many tourneyf**s who refuse to move away from Melee you are no longer the odd duck out (not saying that you are a tourney guy, but that you will likely not be the only one who prefers Melee as his main SSB game).
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 13, 2008, 01:14:34 AM
Wait SSE being leagues better than Melee is extremely arguable. I don't find it enjoyable to have to trudge through 6-8 hr quest to unlock characters in a mode that feels incomplete. Adventure mode was short and to the point, granted it was not great, but at least it was a fair length, and didn't make unlocking characters a chore. Also I think Brawl is a better game when it comes to its core (the multiplayer and fighting mechanics IMO), then again I can also see where others are coming from.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 13, 2008, 01:14:48 AM
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.
I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.
This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 13, 2008, 01:18:02 AM
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.
I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.
This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.
Well it has only been in development for, what, 3 years maybe? Like others have said though it was obvious they went all over the place, because the clones are indicative of prirorities being screwed up. My guess is that Sakurai wanted quite a bit of time and resources put into SSE because he indicated in the past he wanted to move away from Brawl. So maybe that was how he justified doing it again, by doing an expanded single player mode.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 13, 2008, 01:20:32 AM
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.
I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.
This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.
Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.
I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Smoke39 on March 13, 2008, 01:23:40 AM
So far I'm liking Brawl better. Attacks feel like they have more impact now because of the new sounds (the ones in Melee were mushy and lacked punch). I like the expanded roster. I personally like the slower speed. I really like the customizable controls. There are more and better stages and a level editor. More music.
Really, I think the only thing I haven't really liked so far is the Subspace Emissary, which was meh. And I'm still not sure I like the changes they made to Samus.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on March 13, 2008, 01:25:53 AM
So far I'm liking Brawl better. Attacks feel like they have more impact now because of the new sounds (the ones in Melee were mushy and lacked punch). I like the expanded roster. I personally like the slower speed. I really like the customizable controls. There are more and better stages and a level editor. More music.
Really, I think the only thing I haven't really liked so far is the Subspace Emissary, which was meh. And I'm still not sure I like the changes they made to Samus.
I think I pretty much agree with you (Except I still feel there should have been more characters in roster or at the very least 35 UNIQUE characters).
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 13, 2008, 01:33:28 AM
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.
I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.
This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.
Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.
I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.
There is no way it went through all of that development and no one said "hey Smash Balls are way out of balance!", I'm sure they did it on purpose, whether they cared if it unbalances the roster or not.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 13, 2008, 01:38:45 AM
Right, and that's exactly the problem. Someone probably did say that it unbalances it, and someone probably just blew it off because they didn't care. I'm convinced that the top priority for a Final Smash move was for it to look cool.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Svevan on March 13, 2008, 01:50:06 AM
and your problem with that is.....
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 13, 2008, 01:53:46 AM
I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!
I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Svevan on March 13, 2008, 01:55:26 AM
That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mikintosh on March 13, 2008, 02:03:36 AM
Wait SSE being leagues better than Melee is extremely arguable. I don't find it enjoyable to have to trudge through 6-8 hr quest to unlock characters in a mode that feels incomplete. Adventure mode was short and to the point, granted it was not great, but at least it was a fair length, and didn't make unlocking characters a chore.
Well, you have to look at things from a long-term perspective. Once all the characters are unlocked, what're you left with in each mode? With Adventure, it's the same 15 min. thing all over again, whereas with SSE you get a whole adventure for the same price, which you can challenge with different difficulty levels. And how is it incomplete? It's as long as a damn Metroid game.
And for the final smash thing...get over it? They are all roughly about the same in usefulness, even though they aren't all offensive in nature. Some characters have strong attacks with a narrow range or wide-ranging attacks that are weaker or, in Luigi's case, just afflict status changes. C'mon guys, this is the game where you throw Bomb-ombs and Poke Balls at each other, let's not so serious about this stuff.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 13, 2008, 02:09:03 AM
That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.
First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.
Second, what I mean is that some of the FS are a little too over the top and powerful, even for the character. Luigi is an example of this.
Plus, it does feel weird that some of the weaker character have insanely strong attacks while the strong ones get average ones (save for Bowser which is fitting).
And Mikintosh, telling hardcore SSB fans to not take the game seriously is like telling the Pope that God doesn't exist...
Seriously, saying that we shouldn't take SSB seriously because we use Pokeballs is silly. The game may have a sense of humor about the madness going on, but its deep enough that it can be taken seriously as a fighter.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Dasmos on March 13, 2008, 02:09:34 AM
Right, and that's exactly the problem. Someone probably did say that it unbalances it, and someone probably just blew it off because they didn't care. I'm convinced that the top priority for a Final Smash move was for it to look cool.
Don't you think it just adds to the random unfairness that items already provide? I mean, they can be shut off, and for those who want them shut off, they should. Doesn't this just seen to be a matter of not liking items in serious battles?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mikintosh on March 13, 2008, 02:53:48 AM
That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.
First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.
Second, what I mean is that some of the FS are a little too over the top and powerful, even for the character. Luigi is an example of this.
Plus, it does feel weird that some of the weaker character have insanely strong attacks while the strong ones get average ones (save for Bowser which is fitting).
And Mikintosh, telling hardcore SSB fans to not take the game seriously is like telling the Pope that God doesn't exist...
Seriously, saying that we shouldn't take SSB seriously because we use Pokeballs is silly. The game may have a sense of humor about the madness going on, but its deep enough that it can be taken seriously as a fighter.
I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.
And honestly, I think Luigi's Final Smash is barely as good as Peach's, unless there's an automatic KO side-effect I'm not aware of. Pit's actually causes damage, and crosses the entire stage.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Svevan on March 13, 2008, 03:17:33 AM
That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.
First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.
yeah don't take me so seriously bud; the conversation can be retarded and I can respect other people's "tastes" at the same time. not mutually exclusive
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 13, 2008, 07:27:31 AM
I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.
Well, understand that the game is so open that it allows for many different play types. Some people prefer to play a certain way, and the fun of the game is mastering a player under a certain rule set. Playing the game as a party game is just fine, but not everyone does that, and not everyone finds that way of playing fun.
I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.
I don't like the seemingly random tripping either, or the Smash Ball for that matter. It is unbalanced as hell. Some characters have massively powerful Final Smashes while others have totally crappy ones.
Three Land Masters.
I think the developers were well aware of this and did it completely on purpose. It is part of the character's overall balance.
This game has been in development for around 5 years, imbalance as obvious as the Final Smashes must of been intention, because it couldn't have been an accident.
Not sure if I buy that. Just because a game has been in dev for a long time doesn't mean they really balanced everything out very well. Especially with the FSs. The Smash Ball can be turned off, so balance isn't a huge issue with the Final Smashes; balance goes right out the window anyway when you turn any item on. I would agree with your sentiment if it was a core move that didn't require an item to perform it.
I guess my frustration with it is the simple fact that if you pick a character with a crappy one, it detracts from the game rather than adds to it.
There is no way it went through all of that development and no one said "hey Smash Balls are way out of balance!", I'm sure they did it on purpose, whether they cared if it unbalances the roster or not.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 13, 2008, 09:59:25 AM
I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.
Serious battles? Oh trust me, Melee was all serious battles after I unlocked everything. Once I unlocked everything it was all Final Destination and The Temple of Time with no items for everything. LOL
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mashiro on March 13, 2008, 01:19:51 PM
Just to echo Mr. Jacks statements, I know I have been very harsh on the game.
In fact I really haven't even posted on these forums this much in well, a very long time and all I have been doing is knocking the game.
Don't get me wrong, Brawl is still a lot of fun but I think that's because well . . . it's Smash Bros. The formula of fun for the multiplayer battles has always been there in one way shape or form.
It's the added stuff (or lack there for of) that makes me upset.
This isn't to say I don't enjoy playing the game it just feels like a lot of missed opportunities are glaring me right in the face as I play over Melee.
I just hope Nintendo releases another Smash! either by the time their next system comes out or i the same life span of the Wii but I doub't that'll happen.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: vudu on March 13, 2008, 02:29:35 PM
I'm going to start by saying so far, Melee was far more fun for me. I found myself playing it every waking minute when it was first released and that enjoyment of playing lasted long after I had fully cleared the game.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe you were just in a different place when Melee came out? You were probably 17 when Melee came out. Chances are you were still living at home, going to high school, and had plenty of access to friends who wanted to play multiplayer. Now you're 23, you have a job, and likely don't have nearly as many opportunities to get together with friends to play video games. You can't blame Nintendo for changes in your lifestyle.
I was 21 when Melee came out. I logged over 300 hours into the game within the first 2 years (mostly multiplayer). Since then, I've maybe put 20 hours into it. Tops. **** happened, I grew up, and I don't have time to play games as much. Multiplayer is even more rare, because we need to work it around all our schedules, which isn't easy, especially because we don't live in the same city anymore. I'll be lucky to sink 50 hours into Brawl in the next five years.
You prefer Melee because you got to play it a lot more the way it was meant to be played (i.e. with friends). Perhaps I'm way off here, but I'm guessing you haven't had the chance to play much multiplayer in the past five days. Keep an open mind and try to get your buddies over for a Saturday night and play the game the right way.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mashiro on March 13, 2008, 03:08:19 PM
Actually I picked up Brawl at the midnight launch, played a little before I had to sleep for work the next morning. That night a group of my friends from work and I got together and played multiplayer for about 4 hours or so. Most of the SSE I played through with a friend and the other night I played multiplayer with a friend once again.
So the vast majority of my time was played in multiplayer at this point. And as I've said before it's fun, I don't enjoy it as much as Melee but it is fun none the less.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mikintosh on March 13, 2008, 03:44:23 PM
I'm still amazed after spending months on Brawl boards that there *are* hardcore Smash Bros. players. Maybe it's because I first picked up the original game when I was only twelve, but I view the whole thing as just fun; anything that reeks of "tourney play" runs counter to that for me. I play the game all the time but no I don't take it seriously; the whole point is fun, and whining about how some character might have a slight advantage over the other is not fun and a waste of energy.
Well, understand that the game is so open that it allows for many different play types. Some people prefer to play a certain way, and the fun of the game is mastering a player under a certain rule set. Playing the game as a party game is just fine, but not everyone does that, and not everyone finds that way of playing fun.
I think the reason you seem to like Brawl more (than Melee) is because of that attitude towards the game, and there is nothing wrong with that. My play style (which is more "serious" as you put it) seems to not really agree with Brawl. Melee just feels like a better fit because it better caters to that play style. But trust me, through all the bitching, I still think Brawl is phenomenal and I have been up playing it non stop.
Well, I'm not entirely unserious (I just happen to play mostly against those "party"-type players), and I still don't see why Brawl doesn't match up to Melee in that respect. I think the roster's way more balanced and again, I don't see any one Final Smash outweighing the others in effectiveness.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Dirk Temporo on March 13, 2008, 03:50:34 PM
I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!
I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?
Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: darknight06 on March 13, 2008, 06:07:57 PM
Brawl by far. I hated the speed of Melee and missed the more tactical pacing of the original. This one is a solid enough compromise. The story mode is way better. The balance is better. I can't even play Melee anymore without it feeling just plain wrong.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 13, 2008, 09:45:17 PM
That's like saying everyone should do the same damage when you do a smash attack, or when you activate your up plus b special attack. I know of people who play as Yoshi even though he doesn't have a valid triple jump. This conversation is retarded.
First of all, calling the conversation "retarded" was not needed. There are a lot of fans who don't enjoy using the Smash ball and its fine. That's why we were given the option of turning them off. While there are others who don't mind them at all. So, there's no need to insult people's tastes.
yeah don't take me so seriously bud; the conversation can be retarded and I can respect other people's "tastes" at the same time. not mutually exclusive
OK, you are retarded...But don't take me so seriously. I can respect you as a person and STILL think you are a retard. Why do you think I get along with so many people?
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 17, 2008, 09:12:44 AM
I have really enjoyed my time with Brawl. Everything feels much more balanced, and much better thought out. I enjoy Brawl better than Melee...even though I think I enjoyed Melee's Adventure and Classic Mode much more.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Ceric on March 17, 2008, 09:28:16 AM
I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!
I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?
Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.
Seriously? I've had pretty good luck with Dedede's final smash. Also Lucario you have to pick someone to initially go for and then try to sweep for other. I do well with his. So far my worst final smash is the Landmaster and the Ice Climbers.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 17, 2008, 02:26:54 PM
I have to agree with Mr.Jack about the smash balls. They do seem unbalanced. Take for example, Mario and Luigi's final smashes. Mario's FS looks fairly strong and is screen filling. Fine. But Luigi's is INSANE, literally! It inflicts more than 3 status ailments, and if Luigi gets you its over. Not to mention is covers half the arena!
I know the point of the smash ball is to create a grand attack, but shouldn't all the characters get equally powerful and useful attacks?
Seconded. Dedede's final smash is almost useless. It's very rare that I ever KO anybody with it or even inflict a significant amount of damage with it. And Lucario's final smash is awesome for heavy characters, but literally useless for anyone that can jump high enough to get over him, because it moves so slow. Can't complain about Ganondorf or Marth though.
Seriously? I've had pretty good luck with Dedede's final smash. Also Lucario you have to pick someone to initially go for and then try to sweep for other. I do well with his. So far my worst final smash is the Landmaster and the Ice Climbers.
I have had very poor luck with Luigi's Final Smash, so I guess to each his own. There are some final smashes that seem less than useful and some that seem over powering...but usually taken into the context of the character you are playing as it seems to balance out.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mashiro on March 17, 2008, 05:13:26 PM
The worst final smash award goes to jigglypuff unless I am missing something to her final smash . . .
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 17, 2008, 06:00:48 PM
The worst final smash award goes to jigglypuff unless I am missing something to her final smash . . .
It's very effective on small stages. I've been KOed several times on Smashville by it. Otherwise it sucks.
Part of the strategy is positioning too on larger stages. It also works well on the Ice Climbers stage as I pulled an upset victory when I KO'ed everyone with it last second. ;) But I digress.
I think each version has it's own quirks but overall I've enjoyed brawl much more. Not expecting much out of the Subspace Emissary I found myself having fun with it. IMO it's leaps and bounds better then the Adventure mode in Melee. One thing I miss in Classic mode though is the Race to the Finish stage.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Nick DiMola on March 18, 2008, 09:27:36 AM
I wanted to add a bit more to this thread after going back and playing some Melee after playing a couple solid weeks of Brawl. Brawl presentation wise, and graphically is infinitely better looking. The Melee roster feels REALLY small now after playing Brawl which is disheartening, and the speed of Melee is very clearly about 1.5 to twice that of Brawl.
I also feel even more strongly now than I did before, Melee's core gameplay just feels better. Moving and attacking is so much more fluid, probably as a result of the speed and the gravity increases. Doing fluid quick combos is much more satisfying to me than having to plod around to catch my enemy and attack after each time I smash them.
I know the consensus is that Brawl is better, and I agree on just about all accounts, except for the feel of the game. If Brawl would've kept the same gravity and speed as Melee, Brawl would've easily surpassed Melee in every imaginable way. I will hold out hope that an Action Replay comes out for the Wii with some hacks to alter these attributes of the game, because I would be much happier with the total package if this was the case.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 18, 2008, 10:54:16 AM
Mr. Jack, I find your comments interesting. Mostly, because many people have praised the slower feel of Brawl over Melee.
I have been playing Brawl with a classic controller, and I can tell you that control is just not as good as the Gamecube controller...either that or Brawl just isn't as tight as Melee. I have found Brawl I have accidentally done special attacks I didn't want to...and dodging is much more difficult than I remember in Melee, which seemed to allow you to much easier perform dodges, and shielding in general. The same is true with throws in Brawl. I find performing throws much more difficult than in Melee. And this might be because of the controller I am using, but if it is not, then that is the only complaint I have with Brawl.
The controls in general are not as tight as Melee. But I love the speed slow down...even if it makes some characters harder to use, it brings I think a balance better.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Ceric on March 18, 2008, 11:56:28 AM
I don't know if anyone else has notice this yet but in Brawl each character has a different level of difficulty in regards to Dodging, Smashes, Charged Smashes, and a few other miscellaneous things of that nature. It could just be me though.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on March 18, 2008, 01:20:44 PM
No, Brawl contains too many useless animation frames which delay the effects of our intended actions, while Melee had cut-to-chase no-nonsense action timing (having to click L/R buttons all the way down on GCN controllers -- that's a serious delay).
This is the result of letting RPG makers pack their useless fluff into a Nintendo action game.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 18, 2008, 03:16:43 PM
Is it the result of letting RPG makers, or is it the result of artists trying to make more fluid animation and character movement? I have to say some video games end up not needing the additional frames of animation, because it is the action and end result that is more important, not the fluidity.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Smash_Brother on March 18, 2008, 04:28:21 PM
Brawl is the game Melee should have been.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: IceCold on March 18, 2008, 06:24:25 PM
Quote
I know the consensus is that Brawl is better, and I agree on just about all accounts, except for the feel of the game. If Brawl would've kept the same gravity and speed as Melee, Brawl would've easily surpassed Melee in every imaginable way.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I know that many people found Melee to be too fast, but the speed made the game for me.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Ceric on March 18, 2008, 07:31:51 PM
I know the consensus is that Brawl is better, and I agree on just about all accounts, except for the feel of the game. If Brawl would've kept the same gravity and speed as Melee, Brawl would've easily surpassed Melee in every imaginable way.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I know that many people found Melee to be too fast, but the speed made the game for me.
Ironic part of the day I found Melee a little slow at times. Also I find things get a little more frantic and Melee like when your turn the Damage Ratio up.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Mikintosh on March 18, 2008, 09:52:39 PM
No, Brawl contains too many useless animation frames which delay the effects of our intended actions, while Melee had cut-to-chase no-nonsense action timing (having to click L/R buttons all the way down on GCN controllers -- that's a serious delay).
This is the result of letting RPG makers pack their useless fluff into a Nintendo action game.
I can never tell if you're kidding, but I hate cut-to-chase no-nonsense action timing. That's what made it so I can't play against anyone who's "good" at Street Fighter; that type of stuff is exploitable by "pros", and ruins the fun of it all. Smash Bros. is not a "pure" fighting game, and it should never be one, lest the series loses its charm.
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 18, 2008, 10:01:47 PM
Has anyone played a match with higher gravity and speed? O_o It is crazy!
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: Smoke39 on March 19, 2008, 02:08:21 AM
Holy crap it's just like Melee!. o:
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: DAaaMan64 on March 19, 2008, 03:00:25 AM
Title: Re: Brawl vs Melee, which did you enjoy more and why?
Post by: NWR_pap64 on March 19, 2008, 10:03:55 AM
I've yet to play Brawl myself, but I like how smoother and slower it is. I saw some videos of Melee matches and it was insane how fast that game was. The characters look like they were missing frames of animation and were high on speed and caffeine. It was more like watching a race than a fighting match. So I am liking the fact that the Brawl engine runs smoother.
