Post by: wandering on May 24, 2007, 10:05:11 PM
Here's some info about the characters, items, etc.:
------------------------------------------Characters!------------------------------------------
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Fox McCloud
Ike
Kirby
Link
Mario
Meta Knight
Pikachu
Pit
Samus - turns into Zero Suit Samus after performing her Final Smash
Snake (Picture)
Wario
Yoshi
Zelda
------------------------------------------Items!------------------------------------------
Assist Trophies - they're like Pokeballs, except they contain characters from a wide variety of games.
Banana Peel
Bumper
Cracker Launcher
Crates & Barrels
Gooey Bomb
Pitfall
Pokeballs
Smash Ball
Smoke Ball
Super Scope
------------------------------------------Stages!------------------------------------------
Battlefield
Bridge of Eldin
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Halberd (Picture)
Mario Circuit
Pokemon Stadium
Shadow Moses (Picture)
Skyworld
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Rumble Falls
------------------------------------------Final Smashes!------------------------------------------
A final smash is a super powerful attack that you can only perform once per match, and only if you have a smash ball.
------------------------------------------Single Player!------------------------------------------
The Subspace Emissary is a "robust side-scrolling action game" that "also emphasizes character development."
------------------------------------------Controls!------------------------------------------
You can control Brawl with a Gamecube controller, or a classic controller, or a wiimote + nunchuck, or just a wiimote.
To preform a smash attack with the wiimote, you simultaneously press down on: a direction on the d-pad, the 1 button, and the 2 button.
------------------------------------------Music!------------------------------------------
Double S double B will feature music from tons of great composers.
------------------------------------------Links!------------------------------------------
The old thread (R.I.P)
NWR's profile of the game
The official site
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 25, 2007, 02:00:01 AM
I still like the old thread, and see no reason for this...but if it is meant to find new information faster...then ok.
Post by: Pale on May 25, 2007, 02:58:43 AM
Post by: Crimm on May 25, 2007, 05:50:53 AM
That was good for a laugh.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on May 25, 2007, 06:21:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Crimm
Koji Hayama - Cho Aniki
That was good for a laugh.
Now I'm going to make you cry.
Somebody on another forum discovered this. Here's the picture of the Gooey Bomb in SSBB:
http://www.smashbros.com/...item01/item01_070524a.jpg
And here's a picture from Cho Aniki:
http://img337.imageshack....7661/1179993201853zi2.jpg
Post by: Arbok on May 25, 2007, 07:06:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: wandering
NEW - Battlefield. Basically just "Final Destination", with a spiffy day/night cycle, and stuff.
Uhh... It's an update of *drum roll* the Battlefield stage.
Final Destination has no platforms on it.
Post by: nickmitch on May 25, 2007, 07:06:40 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 25, 2007, 07:06:45 AM
Post by: Arbok on May 25, 2007, 07:10:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Don't we also know that Meta Knight has a stage and that the logo is an item?
Snake has his own stage too, which is the first snow "section" from Metal Gear Solid. There is also a Fire Emblem stage (the castle both inside and outside), Pit's cloud stage, the Mario Kart stage, the Yoshi's Island stage and Fox's stage (and I'm probably missing even more).
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I much prefer this thread, especially if Wandering continues to update the first post.
So far the first post is just stuff from smashbros.com mainly; if you are having trouble keeping up with that, they do have a last update portion of the site:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html
Post by: Ceric on May 25, 2007, 07:18:47 AM
Post by: Strell on May 25, 2007, 07:31:15 AM
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2007, 08:02:09 AM
Anyway, why they keep translating parutena as palutena? It should be partena, given the greek theme of the game it makes the most sense, lousy translators.
Post by: Crimm on May 25, 2007, 08:03:22 AM
I, however, would love it.
Post by: Adrock on May 25, 2007, 08:11:05 AM
2. I kind of like the name Palutena. They might as well just keep calling her that because they bastardized Greek mythology worse than Temco did with Rygar.
Post by: Pale on May 25, 2007, 08:29:39 AM
Post by: vudu on May 25, 2007, 08:36:02 AM
Post by: Pale on May 25, 2007, 08:37:58 AM
Post by: Ceric on May 25, 2007, 08:50:05 AM
Actually that be cool to have on the site somehow...
Post by: IceCold on May 25, 2007, 12:49:54 PM
Post by: Shecky on May 25, 2007, 01:23:52 PM
Seriously, no offense to the originator... but can this compete with the clean SSBB web site?
Edit: Well I guess it's got it's place as a suppliment for some info using released screenshots.
Post by: mantidor on May 25, 2007, 06:24:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
2. I kind of like the name Palutena. They might as well just keep calling her that because they bastardized Greek mythology worse than Temco did with Rygar.
but its like bad engrish, not "You have no chance to survive make your time." funny engrish... oh well, I'll live with it.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 25, 2007, 07:56:41 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 25, 2007, 09:59:43 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2007, 12:23:41 AM
Post by: wandering on May 26, 2007, 08:19:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: wandering
NEW - Battlefield. Basically just "Final Destination", with a spiffy day/night cycle, and stuff.
Uhh... It's an update of *drum roll* the Battlefield stage.
I knew that. That's why I shouldn't post at 3AM.
Post by: Zach on May 27, 2007, 02:28:11 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on May 27, 2007, 03:29:52 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 27, 2007, 03:33:23 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on May 27, 2007, 03:35:12 PM
(SB)^2 is SB * SB which is the same as S^2 * B^2 and S*S*B*B
Post by: nickmitch on May 27, 2007, 03:46:20 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 27, 2007, 05:43:45 PM
Anyway, when they changed the name to Wii, they destroyed all hope of calling it Dance Dance Revolution Revolution..
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 27, 2007, 09:25:03 PM
Post by: Pale on May 28, 2007, 03:41:43 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on May 28, 2007, 08:20:06 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 28, 2007, 03:17:24 PM
Just BTW.
Post by: Kraven on May 28, 2007, 03:54:19 PM
Oh and Pit looks sweet, I just wish they had given video of his special moves and not pictures.
Post by: wandering on May 28, 2007, 05:28:08 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 28, 2007, 05:50:28 PM
Nintendo could always just use Pit's Brawl design. I think it's a pretty good update on his character, except he's smiling in most of the released screenshots. What's he so damn happy about? That smug bastard.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 28, 2007, 06:28:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kraven
It would be (S^2)(B^2)=SSBB
That would be (SS)(BB)
Post by: wandering on May 28, 2007, 06:36:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Kraven
It would be (S^2)(B^2)=SSBB
That would be (SS)(BB)
But....(SS)(BB) = SSBB, thanks to the, um, somethingsomething property.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 28, 2007, 06:37:11 PM
Post by: nickmitch on May 28, 2007, 08:08:26 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on May 28, 2007, 08:29:31 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on May 28, 2007, 09:11:19 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on May 28, 2007, 10:17:22 PM
The Final Smash.
Sounds promising.
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 29, 2007, 12:28:29 AM
I also think this means Samus turns into Zero Suit Samus by using one of these items then. We all talked about this after the E3 2006 trailer when her armor comes off after using here Final Smash attack. I think this is now a reality because it makes sense because her Final Smash looks like it takes up most of the screen which will probably make it one of the strongest Final Smash attacks, but after using it she'll because Zero Suit in order to trade power for speed for the rest of the match. I think this sounds like a great way to balance out her character if true then.
Post by: Dasmos on May 29, 2007, 01:24:50 AM
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 02:02:21 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 29, 2007, 03:08:15 AM
But we are talking about an extremely powerful attack that can only be used once per game, per player...and only if you get a special item. So if you don't like the ability turn the item off.
Personally, I like the idea of a mega attack...it will be fun to see people running desperately to pick up the item, and then flee desperately away when they don't pick it up.
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 03:55:04 AM
Also, I know they already revealed how Zero Suit Samus would work last year, but I was hoping they would re-consider and make her a separate character. I was also hoping they'd make Samus more like she is in Metroid 3 and give her the stacked ice beam, a charged shot would temporarily freeze enemies. With a little tweaking, that could've added a lot to Samus' character in Smash.
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 04:20:16 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on May 29, 2007, 05:41:48 AM
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 05:52:56 AM
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 06:02:44 AM
I find it odd that the Final Smash changes Samus so much. You'd think it'd have a similar effect on other characters, say Mario's arms fall off or something.
Post by: Arbok on May 29, 2007, 07:12:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I find it odd that the Final Smash changes Samus so much. You'd think it'd have a similar effect on other characters, say Mario's arms fall off or something.
I hope the Final Smash does a diverse pool of things for different characters, ala Ganondorf becoming Ganon or something to that effect. Powerful techniques, but with incredibly varied results.
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 07:40:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
On the old site, it was mentioned that Zero Suit Samus is playable only "under special circumstances." The Smash Ball seems to fit the bill.
I find it odd that the Final Smash changes Samus so much. You'd think it'd have a similar effect on other characters, say Mario's arms fall off or something.
Mario turning Small.
I agree with Arbok.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 29, 2007, 07:59:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I was never really fond of the Smash Ball item. I kind of wish you earned a Final Smash through good old fashioned pwning to fill a meter though the addition of a meter could complicate the game a bit.
So then the person in the lead is even MORE in the lead? That doesn't make any sense.
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 08:31:59 AM
I'd rather just have Zero Suit Samus or Ganon be separate, selectable characters. Or at least it could be like with Zelda in Melee where I could choose to be Shiek. That's the real difference here.
Now that I've had more time to consider the Smash Ball, I think I flat-out dislike it. I like the idea of the Final Smash, but I don't like the idea of it being attached to an item. While everyone rushing to get the Smash Ball is bound to create some classic match moments, I'd rather the game reward skill, not that getting the Smash Ball first requires no skill. A lot of it also relies on luck of the draw too. If the Smash Ball appears right next to me, you're SOL. It's kind of like the bob-omb, where the bob-omb could spawn in the air as your air-attacking thus dooming you, except without the possible negative repercussions.
So I would prefer a Smash Bar/Meter instead (of course, with the option to turn it off). It would be a bit more complex, but hardly convoluted. Attacks fill the meter, KOs fill it more, and it drains completely by losing a life or using a Final Smash. You could further complicate it by rewarding/punishing higher percentages: pwning with at a high percentage fills the meter quicker, while getting pwn3d decreases the meter.
Quote
So then the person in the lead is even MORE in the lead? That doesn't make any sense.
If you earned it, why not? It's not too far off than just plain being a good player and I think it encourages getting better at the game. As I've said, the Smash Ball isn't always earned which I view as a potential problem. And I'd imagine in either case, if you miss or your opponent dodges, you're left vulnerable for a bit. Hey, it's just my take on things.
In any case, I'd hate for Final Smash Attacks to deal instant KOs. Some of them look like wide attacks (i.e. Mario's fire storm) while others look like (attack it's weak point for) MASSIVE DAMAGE (i.e. Link's Omnislash-esque flurry of attacks).
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 29, 2007, 09:08:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Now that I've had more time to consider the Smash Ball, I think I flat-out dislike it. I like the idea of the Final Smash, but I don't like the idea of it being attached to an item. While everyone rushing to get the Smash Ball is bound to create some classic match moments, I'd rather the game reward skill, not that getting the Smash Ball first requires no skill. A lot of it also relies on luck of the draw too. If the Smash Ball appears right next to me, you're SOL. It's kind of like the bob-omb, where the bob-omb could spawn in the air as your air-attacking thus dooming you, except without the possible negative repercussions.
But the item can only be used once per match by each character. This means if you don't get it the first time, you can get it the next time it appears because your opponent will be unable to use it.
Post by: WalkingTheCow on May 29, 2007, 09:24:45 AM
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 09:45:51 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on May 29, 2007, 09:51:21 AM
And if you can only use the Final Smash once per game, what's keeping you from disposing of the item before your opponent gets it? Sure appearance of items is random, but there isn't going to be too many times where you and your opponent are separated by a large distance, so typically the more skilled player can claim items for himself.
On a second note, the parasol better be in this game, too. I loved to use it as a throwing item.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 29, 2007, 11:27:23 AM
Yes it is powerful...but it isn't impossible to dodge. Mario can only point it in one direction...which means you can get behind Mario...and I am willing to bet that since Mario's is such a wide attack it may be weaker than some of the other Final Smash attacks.
Link's Looks more powerful, but harder to hit multiple people,
Kirby's looks limited to range, but potentially can catch several people in the attack.
So the attack doesn't look too overpowering.
But I would like to remind that there are several items in Melee that give lucky fighters that pick up the item extremely powerful attacks.
1)Legendary Pokemon...sure you can't be positive to pick a special Pokemon but when they come they are very powerful...and the more common Pokemon are still quite powerful as well.
2)The Hammer, It was balanced much better in Melee, but it still had the power to take every one of your opponents out with ease.
I know there are more items, but I can't think of them right now.
The point is tying it to an item allows you to easily turn it off...and it provides a random element to the power. After all, if it was based on skill then the person ahead in points or higher in skill will get to use a super powerful attack placing them further ahead in the game. If it was based on who is losing the game, then skilled players never to use an awesome attack, and will feel that the game gives an unfair advantage to the underdog.
As it is, the game creates it as an item, and will cause a mad dash for the item...but if you feel you can't get there in time, you can start planning how to avoid it.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 29, 2007, 11:48:08 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 29, 2007, 11:57:28 AM
And it still wasn't impossible to counter toe-to-toe, depending on your character. Some could sneak in a hit between Hammer animations, and some like Mario had the ability to deflect it.
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 01:15:26 PM
Quote
thatguy wrote:
Sure appearance of items is random, but there isn't going to be too many times where you and your opponent are separated by a large distance, so typically the more skilled player can claim items for himself.
Not necessarily. If the Smash Ball appears literally right next to me and you're not too far away, you better say your prayers. If the Smash Ball was equidistant between two characters, chances are that the faster character will claim it and the slower one is a sitting duck having no Smash Ball and being slower to boot.
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
The point is tying it to an item allows you to easily turn it off...and it provides a random element to the power. After all, if it was based on skill then the person ahead in points or higher in skill will get to use a super powerful attack placing them further ahead in the game. If it was based on who is losing the game, then skilled players never to use an awesome attack, and will feel that the game gives an unfair advantage to the underdog.
I suggested the option of turning off the meter. Regardless, the Final Smash attack isn't the problem. By snatching the Smash Ball, you didn't necessarily earn the right to use the Final Smash. If I earned a whole life lead over you, why should I possibly get screwed over if the Smash Ball happens to land in your vicinity? As an item, I see it potentially being very cheap. I know items in Smash often rely on luck and randomness and that's why I don't think it should be an item. As a character-unique move, I think it should part of the character's repertoire of moves.
However, advanced players should be be able to use advanced techniques. If you're good enough to charge the meter (which I wouldn't consider easy), why shouldn't you get to use such a strong attack? I find this way far more balanced. Want that fancy move? Earn it... and the closer you get, the bigger a target you become since everyone can see how close you are to filling the meter. I like the idea that pwning increases the meter while getting pwned decreasing it. Adds a bit more strategy to the game.
Quote
As it is, the game creates it as an item, and will cause a mad dash for the item...but if you feel you can't get there in time, you can start planning how to avoid it.
That's not too different than trying to pwn at much a possible to fill the meter while also preventing others from filling theirs... and if you can't stop an opponent's meter from filling, you can start planning how to avoid it.
Hey, I realize my point is moot because the Smash Ball has already been establshed. I just think the concept of a meter is fairer and requires more strategy. It's a more complicated for newer players, but I think it's a good tradeoff and it could be turned off. Then again, they could have 3 options: Smash Ball/Smash Meter/Off.
Anyway, the Final Smash move creates quite a conundrum. If I turn the Smash Ball off, I'll never have access to Zero Suit Samus. The reliance of that item to use her makes it hard to master her play style. I see that as a problem for many reasons. And if I'm KO'd, does Samus come back in her suit or not?
Post by: Kairon on May 29, 2007, 01:20:08 PM
Stop trying to hardcore my game!
Post by: that Baby guy on May 29, 2007, 01:30:44 PM
Adrock, you neglect to mention varying level designs and also forget to factor that while one person is getting the Smash Ball, the other player isn't just going to sit there. On top of that, the superior player is going to have control of the inferior player enough that he or she will be able to control the game enough to get whatever item he or she wants. If the match is close, this item could be a tipping point, but isn't that part of the reason why the game has items in the first place?
Post by: Shecky on May 29, 2007, 01:44:55 PM
Besides, it takes skill + luck with use of any items... even the hammer took some skill/luck.... (pick it up on a cloud, whoops...) and is all about the mentality of the player. Most of the time we played, getting the bat was a challenge in the sense that the other players would be ready to avoid, use a shell, kirby rock the user, etc.
Mario's smashball example is great at showing this too. You have to get it, and then position yourself well in accordance to the field and your opponents. Chances are you'd want to head TOWARDS Mario to "flee"
On top of all that, it's an item, and hence falls under the item switch.
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 02:13:07 PM
Quote
Kairon wrote:
Stop trying to hardcore my game!
I would argue that the game is pretty hardcore as it is. Smash has always been easy to get into yet extremely difficult to master. Think you're good... play someone new (especially at a local tournament or something) and kiss your testicles goodbye (if you're a girl, adjust the statement accordingly). And a veteran player will always run circles around a newbie. Always. I don't want to hear how a skill based meter would put the match leader even more ahead because a better player can just pwn either way. Want to change that? GET BETTER AT THE GAME. A meter simply rewards advanced players, adds more strategy, and as I suggested twice already, would be optional. I love options. Come on, who doesn't?
Quote
thatguy wrote:
Adrock, you neglect to mention varying level designs and also forget to factor that while one person is getting the Smash Ball, the other player isn't just going to sit there. On top of that, the superior player is going to have control of the inferior player enough that he or she will be able to control the game enough to get whatever item he or she wants. If the match is close, this item could be a tipping point, but isn't that part of the reason why the game has items in the first place?
Everything I said still applies. A skill-based meter prevents getting cheaped out. In a close match, I'd rather strictly skill, not luck, determine the winner. If it really came down to the wire, no player would have a full meter because everyone would be good enough to prevent that from happening. However, as I understand it, the Smash Ball can be held (if it's automatic upon touching, it's useless) and I'd hate for a match to go down like that.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 29, 2007, 02:16:26 PM
Post by: Kairon on May 29, 2007, 02:25:13 PM
Smash Bros. is beautiful because it ISN'T a traditional fighting game. Don't make it into one. Because then Smash Bros. will be DEAD.
Post by: Shecky on May 29, 2007, 02:29:58 PM
So one side hates not having his skill directly correlate to his score and wants a very structured and systematic match.
The other side doesn't mind having 4 player with items on high, and the challenge of having to deal with the chaos. With stolen kills, shell tosses across the field, and hammer threats.
The funny thing is that smash has always given the option to help cater to both sides, with options like the item switch and plain flat levels. SSBB is taking that and polishing it even further (day nite of the flat levels) and adding a bit of extra kick to make it even more exciting (smashball).... if you like that sort of thing. Heck I wouldn't be surpriesed if they came out with a new mode or something to cater to Adrock's type. The tournament was a start of that in SSBM, as was some of the other options.
Post by: Kairon on May 29, 2007, 02:34:38 PM
... I have no problem with people turning off items... if they want. I do it often. But items are the natural way to play the game for me.
Post by: Shecky on May 29, 2007, 02:34:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I HATE meters. That is all.
It's systematic, meter lovers can probably tell you the exact formula of how it builds in strength for their favorite game.
On that note, I'm on the chaos side of SSB. I like the challenge of trying to deal with it all and setting people up for all sorts of crazy maneuvers
Edit: Heh, I guess it's Kairon's turn to rant
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 29, 2007, 03:20:23 PM
Jesus.
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 03:24:07 PM
Though I don't agree with that being the only way to get an alt mode.
Also off the top of my head I can think of at least 2 levels in Melee where it would be super easy to dodge Mario's Final Smash.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 29, 2007, 03:53:08 PM
Upgrades would be nifty, too, but I could see some balance problems with that.
Post by: Ceric on May 29, 2007, 04:08:12 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 04:36:42 PM
I don't see how adding one OPTIONAL meter suddenly turns Smash into a traditional fighter. Do you even know how the super meters work in games like Street Fighter Alpha? There are levels, super combos for each level, chains, and so on. My suggestion proposes one thing: charge a meter to perform one move. Theoretically, it could be charged by repeatedly performing forward+A. I don't think that's too unreasonable for newbies. A bit more complex maybe (should you even choose to have it on), but certainly not unreasonable. Don't act like a single extra bar for each player is suddenly the most complicated thing ever because Smash already asks players to pay attention to at least 4 onscreen indicators: your percentage, your opponent's percentage, your shield and your opponent's shield.
Don't get me wrong, I'll take Smash any way I can get it. I play with and without items. I think they're both great ways to play and each requires its own unique strategies. Though I dislike the Smash Ball, I think it could work, but I can totally see it potentially being a broken, match-ruining mechanic. I simply prefer a means that rewards skill. Face it, we were all newbies at Smash at some point. But you practice and get better. A simple meter like the one I'm suggesting asks only that you pay attention to it and play the game the way Smash has always been played. It's not about chaining combos and complex button combinations. It's essentially just playing the game.
I'm not even a big traditional fighting game fan. I just think this could work in Smash because it's simple yet not simplistic. It follows the same principle of accessibility that the series is known for.
But... I can see that, in this forum anyway, it's me against the everyone.
Post by: Dasmos on May 29, 2007, 05:11:12 PM
QuoteYour idea is horrible. Go away.
Originally posted by: Adrock
I'm merely proposing and supporting my idea of an alternative and people jump on my ass. I don't think I've been discourteous to anyone. God forbid someone has an opinion. Jeez....
Post by: Kairon on May 29, 2007, 05:13:13 PM
But seriously, don't you see how the screen real-estate is limited for a 4-player vertical AND horizontally staged fighter with frenetic action and dynamic camera zooming game like Smash brothers? Throw four minibars on there and everything would get infinitely more cluttered. Not to mention that minibars of that size would utterly suck. And not to mention that they would just give players more things to track, lessening the jump-in simplicity of it and messying up the HUD.
Plus, that would imply that super smashes become a regular thing in the match, since it can be used over and over again... whereas with the item implementation it's something that's rarer, more special, and more flavorful as well.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 29, 2007, 10:02:31 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 29, 2007, 10:58:16 PM
As I've stated, the game already asks players to keep track of quite a few things and I don't think that extra optional meter would make things super-complicated. It does one thing and only when charged. It's not a hard concept to explain and it'd be optional. I feel I've been quite clear on that. And I would like to use the Final Smash more than once a match. Here's the rub: since it's based on skill, you have to earn it which wouldn't be easy. Two equally (or near equally) skilled players might never see one in a match. Think of it as a sort-of tug-of-war. You want it, but you don't want your opponent to get it so trading hits wouldn't fill either bar. Final Smashes would be still rare, still special, and still frantic.... maybe moreso.
Anyway, moving while firing adds a new dimension to the game. Adds a bit more strategy to the Super Scope. And for nostaglia's sake, I'd like to see the NES Zapper replace the Ray Gun. I hope the Wii Remote becomes an item too though I wonder what they could do with it. Maybe a lightsaber... give Lucasarts a little hint...
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 02:07:58 AM
But that is the nature of Smash Bros and the nature of the beast. The randomness of the game that you can't control...and that randomness is what makes it such a good game for beginners and expert Smash Bros players. Do we complain in Risk when I have a lead over you, but because of some great dice rolls you are able to completely break my defenses, and I can't get an edge in against you? How about in cards when for some reason you continue to get pocket pairs, and I am not able to pick up a single good hand to bet on? Randomness within the game is what creates character in the game, and what makes it approachable to all players. My friends play me in Melee, because they know through the randomness of items, multiplayer action, and the entire nature of the beast...they can beat me.
You say you don't want a person to get a lucky item and get a leg up on you after you earned a point lead on them...but the truth is that happens all the time in the game even with the most mundane items. The Baseball Bat lands next to me...all of a sudden I have a huge advantage over you if we are equally skilled, because one hit and your gone.
Basing it on skill and using the same system that scores your play in the skill mode would make it more interesting when playing 1 on 1 with equally skilled players, as it does become a give and take...but what happens when they aren't equally skilled. Now you are completely dominating me...and you get the ability to use special moves? What fun is that? Dislike it or not, there is a reason last place gets the lightning bolts in Mario Kart, and Blue Shells...and not first place. Because it is a balance.
Limiting it to once per character, and with an item trigger gives everyone a equal chance to get the item and use it...and yes at times the item will fall closer to your opponent than not. Just accept the randomness and move on. It is just part of the game, that has ALWAYS been in smash since the very beginning.
Post by: Dasmos on May 30, 2007, 02:35:43 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 02:52:26 AM
I like the idea of movement with some weapons, it is a good evolution, and depending on different game modes it could be a vital new strategy.
Speaking of different game modes, I am hoping for a King of the Hill time game. I think defending a territory as a team, or as a solo player would be fantastic...and moving with a weapon would be a great tool in charging a defender.
Another game mode that at first might not seem to fit but would be cool is Capture the Flag.
Have 2 teams and if you grab the flag all you can do is move and throw the flag (no attacking.) Could be a blast to play, and best of all something to play team with.
Post by: Ceric on May 30, 2007, 03:14:30 AM
1. The icon or portrait whatever there using to change as you charge like already mentioned
2. The character itself change as you charge. Like we now that flames go around Mario with his so as he charged they would start to develop until he has those huge flames in his eyes.
I just think it fit a little better with the feel of the game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 04:03:50 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 30, 2007, 05:14:52 AM
Well they didn't specifically state that you could move and charge at the same time...Only rapid-fire burst...
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 05:47:27 AM
A player can easily turn around and jump and nail you any time they want.
They can drop through platforms. Lead you into a trap that you weren't paying attention to.
Lure you into fighting somebody else.
I mean you need to look more abstractly. I also believe people are judging new additions to Brawl from the aspect of 1vs1 battles. Well Brawl is more than that...specially if you include online play, where 1 on 1 should not be the norm.
Post by: vudu on May 30, 2007, 07:09:37 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 07:21:40 AM
The question being debated is: Whether or not Final Smashes are too powerful to be an item that can be randomly picked up by any player, even if it is just one time use item. Somebody in second or even third place could last minute KO 2 or 3 giving them the win that they truly didn't deserve.
The other arguement is that Smash Bros random nature of items, 4 player mayhem, and level hazards creates an intense unpredictable game environment that both advanced players and beginners can enjoy, and even have a chance against each other...and basing the collection or powering of the Final Smash on skill would create an even greater gap between great players and novinces that could hurt the fun factor.
Finally, I think there is another arguement, that is a blend of the two. This opinion is ok with it being an item...they just don't want it to be a completely random item. They want it to appear either after a certain time, action, points, kills, skill...something so that there is a way to play a good strong game and be rewarded by the item appearing and taking it. Perhaps this creates a compromise that when the item appears it can be anyones to grab, but the skilled player triggers it, and potentially has the best chance of obtaining the item.
But to repeat there is no meter in the game.
Post by: mantidor on May 30, 2007, 08:43:48 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 30, 2007, 09:09:21 AM
Post by: that Baby guy on May 30, 2007, 09:22:22 AM
With Link's, who knows. Maybe it lays the Tri-force down like a mine, and the first person to step on it gets ensnared.
Post by: SixthAngel on May 30, 2007, 09:37:25 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 30, 2007, 09:39:02 AM
One thing that is bugging me right now is that they are acting as if they are saving the updates in fear that they will run out of stuff to talk about, so they are only doing small updates.
Here's the thing; they have already revealed 11 characters (Mario, Link, Pikachu, Kirby, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Snake, Metaknight, Pit, Wario and Fox). From the looks of things, they will make updates on these characters first. Once they are finished with them, they will move on with the returning Melee cast along with the Brawl newcomers. The final tally could be 20 + characters (there was the rumor of the game featuring around 40 characters, but as S_B pointed out to me that was a rumor mentioned by some random game, it never came directly from Sakurai, so the safest bet is that the game might feature 20 plus characters).
If they are planning on making individual updates on their moves, final smashes, items, stages, music, gameplay additions, basics of gameplay, controls and other stuff, they will have PLENTY to talk about, even after the game is released, so there's no excuse as to why the SSB creators are holding the updates back.
So for example, if the character of the day is going to be Mario, then make multiple updates about HIS character, stage, theme song and special attacks included, not just make individual updates.
Later in the week: Look out for the update on how they worked greatly on Wario's ass so that its realistic and accurate, especially when performing his final smash, the Wario Waft (this is Smash_Brother's joke. He is very busy today so I am making sure the joke gets posted
).
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2007, 09:40:16 AM
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
But that is the nature of Smash Bros and the nature of the beast. The randomness of the game that you can't control...and that randomness is what makes it such a good game for beginners and expert Smash Bros players.
Randomness is part of the game, not the nature of it. You can turn items off, making the game far less luck based. A meter only means that the Final Smash would not be left to the luck of the draw. The game would still be as random as its ever been. As I said before: Smash has always been easy to get into yet extremely difficult to master. Randomness doesn't make Smash accessible. Items don't bridge the gap between beginners and expert players because real expert players won't lose to beginners. They're better and know the ins and outs of the game better, including how to use the items more effectively. Skill is at the heart of every good game. Where's the fun in getting cheaped out? The Final Smash moves could potentially f*ck up your day. Attacks that powerful should be as hard to pull off as possible.
Quote
mantidor wrote:
how does Link's and Kirby's final smash work?
I'd imagine that while Final Smash is activated, Link is in a loop and can only move and attack in the direction of opponents in the vicinity.
Kirby's would be way too cheap if everyone automatically was dropped into a pot. I really don't know how Kirby's would work.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 30, 2007, 09:41:00 AM
There are enough daily updates to last till 2012.
Daily updates are enough there are.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 30, 2007, 09:42:43 AM
uh huh.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 30, 2007, 09:45:11 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 10:16:49 AM
We don't even know exactly how the attack works. Perhaps it triggers the attack right after you get the item...or your first attack after you get. Perhaps you can stop somebody from using the attack just by attacking them before they pull off the move? We know nothing yet.
As for discussion about how Link's and Kirby's works.
I would assume Kirby's is an Area attack. Everyone within a small close Area of Kirby gets caught in the attack. Putting the risk that Kirby has to get close to use it...and making it easier to avoid.
I believe Link's is more of a straight forward dash attack. Anyone caught in the line of the attack is going to get hit. I think the Triforce isn't there as a trap...just decoration to make the move look cooler.
Post by: Ceric on May 30, 2007, 10:44:05 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2007, 11:18:18 AM
Small updates ensure that the team isn't overwhelmed with the website while still working on the game.
E3 is going to bring tons of information and first hand game play of Brawl. Right now we are getting teasers and that is ok with me.
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 30, 2007, 02:18:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang ..specially if you include online play, where 1 on 1 should not be the norm.
Considering that Sakurai already expressed the difficulty in getting 4 player online play to work, I think it's reasonable to expect it to be the norm.
Fighting games tend to have a hard time going online because of the sheer amount of twitch gameplay involved. SSBB will be no exception.
Maybe we might have 2v2 with only 2 Wiis connected, but I wouldn't be holding my breath for 4 player online play.
Post by: Shecky on May 30, 2007, 03:24:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Lets say the did use a meter instead. That could work fine but I personally would prefer instead of a meter one of two things:
1. The icon or portrait whatever there using to change as you charge like already mentioned
2. The character itself change as you charge. Like we now that flames go around Mario with his so as he charged they would start to develop until he has those huge flames in his eyes.
I just think it fit a little better with the feel of the game.
AAARGH! and no one gets the ref...
Post by: Darkheart on May 30, 2007, 05:57:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Lets say the did use a meter instead. That could work fine but I personally would prefer instead of a meter one of two things:
1. The icon or portrait whatever there using to change as you charge like already mentioned
2. The character itself change as you charge. Like we now that flames go around Mario with his so as he charged they would start to develop until he has those huge flames in his eyes.
I just think it fit a little better with the feel of the game.
AAARGH! and no one gets the ref...
Theres some issues with grammar and spelling in the bolded parts. Is that to refer to that Word Coach game going on in the other thread?
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2007, 06:26:49 PM
And I like the small updates. I just wish they'd unveil one really big surprise a week. A new stage or character. They haven't really wowed me yet though something is better than nothing.
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
And you don't think the definition of hard to pull off is waiting for an item to come and get ONE single chance to use it and pull it off effectively? Its not like you can pull off the perfect attack with it each and every time.
It's the "wait for the item to come" part that kills it for me. Don't you think it's hard to earn it by plain being good at the game? Everyone seems to be protecting novice players without considering that everyone started as a novice player.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 30, 2007, 09:41:25 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 30, 2007, 10:02:55 PM
That's great and all. I just really would like to see a newcomer we haven't seen or something.
Still, that item looks like loads of fun, mostly because of the ability to aim. The site mentions that "You can walk around and jump while holding the launcher." I wonder if you can shoot it in the air. If it's so heavy, how fast can you shoot while jumping.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 30, 2007, 11:20:40 PM
Post by: Shecky on May 31, 2007, 01:17:28 AM
On the Cracker Launcher... looks to act as a mortor of sorts, which will likely affect the speed and jumping capabilities of your character. SSB has been good about that in the past (aka DK can move with those big crates easy, kirby cannot. This isn't a large crate, so I imagine even the smaller characters can move with it, just slowly.
And you get nice eyecandy after the shell explodes, great weapon!
Post by: Ceric on May 31, 2007, 02:02:11 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 31, 2007, 02:46:24 AM
I am not 100% opposed to the idea of a super meter per say...it is just that my experience with Smash Bros has been one where friends stopped playing because the skill level to compete made it to frustrating to play with friends better than you. The original N64 game was our second most played multiplayer experience (Perfect Dark being first) but Melee became too complicated. There was so much more strategy and depth to the game that people literally stopped wanting to play me. Or they would just do that cheap auto Smash C-Stick the entire game.
Soon even I dispised the multiplayer aspect of the game even though Melee was one of my favorite games to play solo. For me anything that can get my friends back to play Brawl with me I want. Better balance, slow the speed a tad, and create an experience more like the original.
To me that is where items come in. Items like the newly announced Cracker Launcher...something that just sounds fun and crazy to use. That can cause chaos on the screen and is simple to use.
Or the Final Smash that gives players a single attempt to make a big score in the game. To me, that just sounds like alot of fun.
Post by: that Baby guy on May 31, 2007, 04:36:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
it is just that my experience with Smash Bros has been one where friends stopped playing because the skill level to compete made it to frustrating to play with friends better than you.
Auto handicaps really helped me out.
Post by: Artimus on May 31, 2007, 04:46:10 AM
Post by: Kairon on May 31, 2007, 05:08:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Everyone seems to be protecting novice players without considering that everyone started as a novice player.
That's EXACTLY why we're protecting novice players: so there will be more of us.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 31, 2007, 08:38:08 AM
With hot sauce.
Post by: Ceric on May 31, 2007, 08:52:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Reggie eats novice players.
With hot sauce.
Hence the real reason Reggie is trying to garner new players. To satisfy is insatiable hunger. Hence why he was look for a hera... assistant.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 31, 2007, 08:11:35 PM
According to the site, what happens is that you start on a platform high above the city, then it will travel all around it. When it lands, it becomes a normal Brawl stage.
Looks nice! The colors are really vivid.
So far it looks like we have two "moving" stages confirmed (the Halberd and Delfino Plaza).
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 31, 2007, 08:23:14 PM
Post by: IceCold on May 31, 2007, 08:59:31 PM
Post by: Adrock on May 31, 2007, 09:01:25 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on May 31, 2007, 10:08:55 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 31, 2007, 11:39:36 PM
Plus I also love the idea of these moving stages and hope to see a lot of them. Who's hoping we'll see a moving Metroid stage that takes for a wild ride through the different parts of Zebes, or maybe a Kirby stage that takes place on a gaint star and takes you to all these different locations from the Kirby games. Now that would be sweet.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 01, 2007, 02:37:56 AM
It sounds dull at first, but then you realize you are going to be flying around moving to different locations, which are going to have different fighting strategizes. From the looks of it, the stage is atleast partially a flat level...and then another part is mostly flat with stairs.
This is going to be fun finding your vantage point and fighting.
To me this is going to feel like a changing stage instead of a moving stage, since you will be staying at a new location for awhile.
I am very excited about this stage...and what that means for other stages changing/ evolving.
Post by: Caterkiller on June 01, 2007, 05:02:54 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 01, 2007, 05:35:34 AM
Though, stuff like that could be saved for the Adventure mode.
Personally, I really love revisiting all the places in the Nintendo universe...and I am specially pleased that Nintendo is taking the events that occur in the individual Mario games and characters and mixing them together, creating a more consistant world.
Post by: Ceric on June 01, 2007, 06:03:07 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 01, 2007, 06:03:30 AM
Post by: Adrock on June 01, 2007, 08:45:37 AM
I don't think the Delfino level is finished yet since it's awfully empty. Some Melee stages had things happening in the background. The Great Bay stage did take place during the events of Majora's mask (with the gods and the moon), so I wouldn't be surprised if, when all is said and done, we see Piantas (who admittedly are lame, but they live on Delfino Island) and paint/graffiti.
I like the color scheme in Brawl. Some of the colors in Melee were too bright (like Samus' suit). I think they found a good balance in Brawl.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 01, 2007, 09:08:23 AM
And the sun could get blocked out and restored.
Post by: Ceric on June 01, 2007, 09:12:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Yoshi turns into bubbles.
I don't think the Delfino level is finished yet since it's awfully empty. Some Melee stages had things happening in the background. The Great Bay stage did take place during the events of Majora's mask (with the gods and the moon), so I wouldn't be surprised if, when all is said and done, we see Piantas (who admittedly are lame, but they live on Delfino Island) and paint/graffiti.
I like the color scheme in Brawl. Some of the colors in Melee were too bright (like Samus' suit). I think they found a good balance in Brawl.
I think those bright colors were part of the charm. We all know from the first two that what really is fighting is toys.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 01, 2007, 09:17:35 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 01, 2007, 09:21:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
So instead of toys, they're RealDolls this time. oh baby.
AO rating confirmed. New meanings of Smash and Brawl come into common vocabularly.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 01, 2007, 09:27:04 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 01, 2007, 10:53:09 AM
Post by: Maverick on June 01, 2007, 11:38:58 AM
Post by: ShyGuy on June 01, 2007, 12:19:50 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 01, 2007, 12:52:52 PM
Post by: AwesomeMan on June 01, 2007, 02:04:47 PM
Pit looks awesome though.
Post by: Maverick on June 01, 2007, 03:23:19 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 01, 2007, 03:34:47 PM
Quote
Ceric wrote:
I think those bright colors were part of the charm. We all know from the first two that what really is fighting is toys.
I didn't think it had anything to do with the characters actually being toys/trophies. The graphics were brighter in Melee. It was a first generation Gamecube title so I didn't mind too much.
I hope they don't follow the toys/trophies thing. I think we've been through this but man, I still dislike Master Hand. I want real bosses.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 02, 2007, 09:45:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Just need Daisy and Krystal to complete the package.
DO NOT WANT
Post by: Khushrenada on June 02, 2007, 10:17:14 AM
Post by: AwesomeMan on June 02, 2007, 01:02:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
You don't look right wearing chainmail!
yes but unlike link you don't wanna see me without it
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 03, 2007, 08:05:47 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 03, 2007, 08:26:47 PM
Quote
Composition Supervisor: Kazumi Totaka
Arrangement Supervisor: Masafumi Takada
From what I understand, the "composition supervisor" originally wrote the song while the "arrangement supervisior" remixes it for Brawl. Masafumi Takada's notable works include Killer 7 and God Hand. Does this mean we can strike a Killer 7 character as a possible 3rd party character? Jun Fukuda is still on this list for all you Killer 7 hopefuls, however, this update seems to suggest that the musicians list is simply a very impressive list of musicians contributing to the game. I could be wrong though.
The theme is nice though annoying with Yoshi kind of "singing" in the background. It really can't get much worse than the DK Rap... unless of course "Seven Rings in Hand" from Sonic and the Secret Rings somehow makes it into Brawl.......
Post by: wandering on June 03, 2007, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: Strell on June 03, 2007, 09:10:13 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 03, 2007, 10:28:39 PM
Post by: Strell on June 03, 2007, 10:55:16 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 04, 2007, 12:06:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrockhowever, this update seems to suggest that the musicians list is simply a very impressive list of musicians contributing to the game.
Did it ever suggest anything else?
Post by: Shecky on June 04, 2007, 01:33:32 AM
Fixed...
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 04, 2007, 01:52:50 AM
I heard this song and told myself I really want this soundtrack to listen in the car. If they can just make a dual disc CD with all the tracks in the game I will be happy.
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2007, 03:47:39 AM
Post by: Kenology on June 04, 2007, 04:01:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
Composition Supervisor: Kazumi Totaka
Arrangement Supervisor: Masafumi Takada
From what I understand, the "composition supervisor" originally wrote the song while the "arrangement supervisior" remixes it for Brawl.
Yup.
Masafumi Takada + Yoshi = Complete Dopeness ("Yoshi's Tale" is one of my favorite tracks on the Yoshi's Story OST)
They're droppin' these small, tender morsels and I'm dyin' to hear more.
Post by: mantidor on June 04, 2007, 05:28:58 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 04, 2007, 07:59:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
I love this song, and boy does it bring back memories. I have the smashing live CD, and when this sound track eventualy comes out, I know im going to be listening to it just as much if not more.
Melee's soundtrack never came out, so scratch that idea =D
(you could, however, rip all of Melee's music off the GCN disc, since it's entirely pre-recorded)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2007, 08:07:24 AM
But I was relieved to find out that it had more to do with
than in had to do with any sort of racial interaction.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 04, 2007, 08:08:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I swear I read somewhere that all the original smash characters, not melee, are guaranteed to return, maybe it was Sakurai in some interview? or maybe I'm making things up...
I think that was just wishful thinking on the part of some, but I hope it's true.
I didn't care for any of the character additions of Melee to the point where I'd regret seeing them axed with the exception of Bowser. The rest can DIAF, though it is fun to annoy the sh*t out of people with the Ice Cimbers while saying, "essssskiiimoooos!!!" in a high-pitched voice.
As for the connotations of the various music producers, I think there ARE some connotations in there, unless this isn't the complete list of producers (which I don't think it is, since FF's composer isn't credited even though he did the main theme).
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2007, 08:31:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I just read the updates in the OP and I was shocked to see that there was a "Cracker Launcher".
But I was relieved to find out that it had more to do with ... than in had to do with any sort of racial interaction.
I was hoping it be a barrel that shot out saltine crackers when I first saw it. Maybe even Cracker Jacks.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 04, 2007, 09:03:20 AM
Post by: Strell on June 04, 2007, 09:56:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
I love this song, and boy does it bring back memories. I have the smashing live CD, and when this sound track eventualy comes out, I know im going to be listening to it just as much if not more.
Melee's soundtrack never came out, so scratch that idea =D
(you could, however, rip all of Melee's music off the GCN disc, since it's entirely pre-recorded)
Really? Cuz I got exactly that from Nintendo Power...
Post by: that Baby guy on June 04, 2007, 10:00:26 AM
Post by: Strell on June 04, 2007, 11:04:39 AM
But I can leave it well enough alone.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 04, 2007, 11:18:31 AM
Post by: Strell on June 04, 2007, 01:48:42 PM
You can add some pie charts and maybe even a bibliography.
Post by: Kenology on June 04, 2007, 01:55:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Not, it isn't. The arrangements are completely different from what's in the game. It's more like an interpretation of specially chosen songs from the game. The songs are not at all the same as what you hear in the game, featuring a stronger sense of orchestra than what was used in game, and it's missing probably half of the game's music. Not hardly close to an OST. That isn't semantics, it's fact.
He's right strell. There's a big difference. For example, listen to the "Opening" theme from the concert and you'll notice that the choir from the in-game version ris missing. Also, the 'win' fanfares are attached to the ending of each piece effectively making them the end coda. Thirdly, quite a few of pieces in the concert weren't even orchestrated in the game, such as "Yoshi's Story", "Doctor Mario", "Jungle Garden", almost everything from "Smash Bros. Great Medley", etc...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 04, 2007, 09:02:46 PM
That is one BIG motherf***ing Pokemon.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 04, 2007, 09:06:38 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 05, 2007, 02:57:37 AM
However, I am not a big fan of the really powerful legendary Pokemon attacking.
I love the smaller Pokemon though, as it adds humor to a powerful attack.
You just got a beat down from Squirtle. BOO-YAH!!!
Post by: Ceric on June 05, 2007, 03:01:21 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 05, 2007, 06:39:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I think Groudon just stands there and is hot.
I'd hit that.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 05, 2007, 10:14:55 AM
For a Dollar
Post by: Zach on June 05, 2007, 08:03:51 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 05, 2007, 08:55:22 PM
I really hope they add more ledge mechanics, such as grabbing onto someone's legs. I described it in fuller detail in the old topic and I'm too lazy to dig it up.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 05, 2007, 11:23:07 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 05, 2007, 11:41:15 PM
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 06, 2007, 01:36:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
With new updates every weekday, I don't think you should be so quick to judge!
Here here! I'm happy to be getting new screens, even if it is just Mario recovering!
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 06, 2007, 02:41:14 AM
The pictures are nice to see just how far someone can fall and still recover. And the post has a nice tease about Aeral combat, which was mentioned before to be getting a much larger focus this game.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 06, 2007, 07:35:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Today's update for Smash Veterans is pretty meaningless. But for newcomers to the series (and not just hidden characters) it is an important aspect of the game to each. That single element of Mid-Air Jump and Up Special to avoid being knocked out is a defining principle of the game...and one I have had a hard time explaining to people. (Maybe I just know video game stupid friends.)
Exactly, people have to remember that these updates are not for the Hardcore Smash Bros players but for everyone. Since the Wii is more popular then the N64 or Gamecube ever were, Brawl is going to be the highest selling Smash Bros game in the series. Meaning these updates are very important to inform those that aren't familar with the series.
If these updates were just aimed at people like us, and only showed off the new and more advanced features, it's be a poor way of bringing in new players. This is what killed 2d fighters back in the 90's because the companies only started focusing on pleasing the hardcore fanbase and so it became impossible for the average person to jump in because they had no idea what to do anymore.
Post by: Kairon on June 06, 2007, 07:49:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Today's update for Smash Veterans is pretty meaningless. But for newcomers to the series (and not just hidden characters) it is an important aspect of the game to each. That single element of Mid-Air Jump and Up Special to avoid being knocked out is a defining principle of the game...and one I have had a hard time explaining to people. (Maybe I just know video game stupid friends.)
Exactly, people have to remember that these updates are not for the Hardcore Smash Bros players but for everyone. Since the Wii is more popular then the N64 or Gamecube ever were, Brawl is going to be the highest selling Smash Bros game in the series. Meaning these updates are very important to inform those that aren't familar with the series.
If these updates were just aimed at people like us, and only showed off the new and more advanced features, it's be a poor way of bringing in new players. This is what killed 2d fighters back in the 90's because the companies only started focusing on pleasing the hardcore fanbase and so it became impossible for the average person to jump in because they had no idea what to do anymore.
QFT.
Stop trying to hardcore my game website.
Post by: Ceric on June 06, 2007, 07:58:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Today's update for Smash Veterans is pretty meaningless. But for newcomers to the series (and not just hidden characters) it is an important aspect of the game to each. That single element of Mid-Air Jump and Up Special to avoid being knocked out is a defining principle of the game...and one I have had a hard time explaining to people. (Maybe I just know video game stupid friends.)
Exactly, people have to remember that these updates are not for the Hardcore Smash Bros players but for everyone. Since the Wii is more popular then the N64 or Gamecube ever were, Brawl is going to be the highest selling Smash Bros game in the series. Meaning these updates are very important to inform those that aren't familar with the series.
If these updates were just aimed at people like us, and only showed off the new and more advanced features, it's be a poor way of bringing in new players. This is what killed 2d fighters back in the 90's because the companies only started focusing on pleasing the hardcore fanbase and so it became impossible for the average person to jump in because they had no idea what to do anymore.
Sounds like sports game.
Edit: changed smarts to sports. I don't know how that happened I know I was thinking sports.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 06, 2007, 10:46:49 AM
Now, I can't do anything in the Sports games and I quite playing them. Thankfully Nintendo is bringing simple FUN back into Sports games (Mario Sports Series) and other companies are following suit. (Big series of games).
People need to realize that simulation games work but they should not be the only games around.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 06, 2007, 12:44:51 PM
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 06, 2007, 01:09:10 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 06, 2007, 01:48:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
who else thought the music updated so far was pretty kool
I did.
Post by: Kenology on June 06, 2007, 02:10:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
who else thought the music updated so far was pretty kool
I did.
Me too. Particularly the arranged Yoshi song... The Melee menu theme was nice, but they need to give Motoi a Zelda theme to arrange as that would be an total eargasm.
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 06, 2007, 02:14:37 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 06, 2007, 02:17:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
So remind me again. Exactly what casual game players are going to check the Smash Bros. website every day for updates, or even at all? None? Exactly.
They don't have to check it every day. Hell we don't have to check it every day.
If a casual gamer or new Nintendo gamer hears about Smash Bros from a friend, or any source they may check the website...and will have tons of information about how to play the game. Each entry will be important to teach the person how to play.
Come on, and think before you just post a reactionary post...so it isn't what you wanted in a post. Perhaps tomorrow will be.
Post by: Adrock on June 06, 2007, 02:37:33 PM
Quote
So remind me again. Exactly what casual game players are going to check the Smash Bros. website every day for updates, or even at all? None? Exactly.
Yeah, pretty much.
Everyone is taking this babying of newcomers to such an extreme level. Seriously, you don't need 4 sets of training wheels on the same bike to show someone how to ride one. A newcomer is going to see Mario punching Pikachu and think either: for me/not for me. Then, those left will play it and decide again: for me/not for me.
Smash is so far removed from traditional fighting games. Games like Street Fighter aren't complicated simply because of block meters and super moves... they're more complicated from the very core of the gameplay with its controls: 6 attack buttons (all of which do something different) plus button combinations and quarter/half circle directional inputs etc. That's nothing like Smash. You all act like newcomers need a "Smash for Dummies" manual to guide them through what basically amounts to fairly straightforward controls and some platforming. If you or I could get into the Smash system, anyone can get into it.
Some people get all weary that more advanced features will turn off newcomers and I don't see it that way. For example, Melee introduced holding attacks to cause more damage which complicated the gameplay over the original but added some depth to the system. I figure very few people exclaimed, "Oh God! I don't get this!" The basics of the Smash gameplay system are still in tact. New "advanced" mechanics like running while shooting the Super Scope don't suddenly make the game "hardcore" or inaccessible to newcomers. Like any other game, being good at Smash still requires player improvement and practice. Getting into Smash is easy because understanding the system is quite easy itself. Getting good at Smash is hard because the system asks players to gain an increased knowledge of the game as a whole which I suppose we can call advanced maneuvers and techniques.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 06, 2007, 03:12:42 PM
And my friend Kevin had the same issue.
Sure Smash Bros isn't as complicated as a normal fighter, but there are still several techniques and strategies to master...many that aren't in any other game.
Why does it bother people so much for people to create updates and information for newbies.
In truth if you really wanted only information for the hardcore or average gamer, then why have any preview stories or impressions of upcoming games? We all know what a new Mario game will be like, or we all understand what to expect in the next Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy game. And besides new characters added to any fighter we don't really need to know about anything else, because most fighters are just extensions of previous games.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 06, 2007, 04:22:30 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 06, 2007, 04:32:29 PM
How many of you have played an RTS?
Good.
Now think about the Tech tree or similar in that game.
First you need a base unit before you can branch out to something more complicated and interesting.
This is that base unit. Now when they do something more advance they can just link back and not have to go through a mini-explanation. They did the exact same thing with the Pokeballs. Have a Pokeball segment and then the Pokemon themselves.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 06, 2007, 04:52:07 PM
You mean the how-to-play video shows up once you get into multiplayer or adventure mode?
"is covered in the manual"
Cuz of Nintendo's habit of forced tutorials the past few generations, manuals are often ignored.
Post by: Arbok on June 06, 2007, 08:41:15 PM
I was considering busting out the old "OMG, MEGATON!" thing with that... but yeah...
At least we have some more pictures.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 06, 2007, 11:07:58 PM
Then last week we got two of Pits moves on Monday, Mario's Final Smash on Tuesday, the ability to shoot while running on Wednesday, a new item (Cracker Launcher) on Thursday and then a new stage (Delfino Plaza) on Friday.
Now this week we've had, music from what will be a Yoshi stage, Pokeball items, how to recover and now two Veteran Fighters. If tomorrow's update deals with a Newcomer then there's definitely a pattern.
From all this it seems that each week the updates in random order are
- Stage related, whether it's a stage or music from a stage
- Basic Gameplay info
- One of the items from the game
- Something related to Veteran Fighters
- Something related to Newcomers
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 07, 2007, 01:49:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Explain to me how posting a triple jump on the website is even remotely important? All that is explained the second you play the game, is covered in the manual, and will be covered by pretty much every article ever written about the game.
Simple: The Triple Jump to Recovery is the FOUNDATION of the game. That simple move is the basis that allows the game to work and be fun...since the game is basically King of the Hill.
So why is it important to be covered in the OFFICIAL website blog for the game. Perhaps because it is the official website and they want people to learn how to play the game. Perhaps its because you can't play Brawl yet so the manual isn't available to read. Perhaps its because the game isn't out yet so you can't play it and go through the tutorials. Finally, perhaps its because Nintendo doesn't want to trust other articles to represent and teach people how to play its game. After all, the articles on game sites and magizines are equally for average or hardcore gamers as their website is.
Today's update
As for today's update it is alittle dull, but we do find some interesting things out. First, we see Two of Kirby's special attacks and read about his copy ability. I was really hoping for a picture with Mario's hat on Kirby but oh well. The update states that Kirby's look has changed, but Kirby himself hasn't changed at all either. I am expecting that gets no new moves at all.
That could mean that most of the core characters aren't getting new moves...and perhaps like Link will just get a few different normal or smash moves for the game. This isn't bad, because I love the characters how they are, and I would rather focus on new characters and balance in this game.
For Pikachu, his pictures show us less...but the pictures really do show a great personality in the animation. He looks more rodent like then he is sometimes portrayed, and I hope that all his animations are more natural and animal like.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 07, 2007, 02:51:34 AM
And I honestly can't see how anyone can complain about these updates...We are getting new screenshots EVERY WEEKDAY...Asking for more than the generous amount we are already getting is pretty pathetic...
Post by: mantidor on June 07, 2007, 05:47:38 AM
I'd actually prefer less info because its much better to get it all in one single trailer, so I think I'll avoid the thread for a while.
Post by: Arbok on June 07, 2007, 06:26:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
And I honestly can't see how anyone can complain about these updates...We are getting new screenshots EVERY WEEKDAY...Asking for more than the generous amount we are already getting is pretty pathetic...
Not complaining, just saying there is not much to get excited about with today's update compared to some previous ones, like with Groudon.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 07, 2007, 06:47:42 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 07, 2007, 08:11:22 AM
Wii obviously outputs DS resolutions.
Post by: TEM on June 07, 2007, 08:23:42 AM
Post by: vudu on June 07, 2007, 10:07:02 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 07, 2007, 10:38:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
I just had a great idea for a stage. It's a medium-sized planet from Super Mario Galaxy. Players would be able to run around all sides of the planet (on a 2D plane, of course) and the only way to die would be to get thrown off one of the sides (that is, there's no pit on the bottom to fall into).
That would make for some long fights. Also a little confusing if someone was an the top and another on the bottom. Still fun though.
Post by: Zach on June 07, 2007, 11:29:34 AM
The most fun thing I could think about with a stage like that would be the potential to put a player into orbit (EX falco hits fox, fox flies around the planet and kicks falco from opposite direction). Does bring up the question of how you would control the players upside down.
Post by: Shecky on June 07, 2007, 01:05:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Zach
I like that idea though. Conceivably, to die, you would have to be hit hard enough to escape the planet's gravity, kinda like being kicked up on a regular stage. (since everything would be pulled toward the center, rather than straight down).
The most fun thing I could think about with a stage like that would be the potential to put a player into orbit (EX falco hits fox, fox flies around the planet and kicks falco from opposite direction). Does bring up the question of how you would control the players upside down.
Which is why it would probably work like the Metroid stage in SSBM (the one with Kraig). Instead of lava you have a sun that you orbit (while the moon/planet rotates on it's own axis) and the sun shoots out some solar flairs every now and then.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 07, 2007, 01:39:14 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 07, 2007, 03:26:28 PM
Post by: Shecky on June 07, 2007, 05:06:24 PM
Three rotating planets/moons, all spinning (at different rates and directions)
The entire cluster orbit each other and the whole thing orbits a sun, which you fall towards if your off normal ground. To further add to this, give the planets floating ledges that rotate with the planet (such that you stand on the top of them when they're above the planet and the "bottom" of them when they are below the planet)
Post by: Smoke39 on June 07, 2007, 06:32:33 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 07, 2007, 06:47:02 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 07, 2007, 08:05:11 PM
Every controller is compatible somehow. Awesome. No specifics, but still nice to know.
I'll probably stick with the Gamecube controller though I plan on buying a classic controller at some point for VC games so I'll try that too.
Post by: Arbok on June 07, 2007, 08:09:23 PM
Unless certain modes force certain play styles... which I kind of hope not as I don't want to have to juggle around controllers for "adventure" mode or something.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 07, 2007, 08:36:47 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on June 07, 2007, 08:41:56 PM
Post by: IceCold on June 07, 2007, 08:43:58 PM
But I seriously don't understand how only the remote can be used. With that option there are only two real accessible buttons (1 and 2). I guess you could use the B trigger, but still.. you need at least four easily accessible buttons at the minimum (attack, special, jump, shield). Maybe if you make UP the jump and B the shield. Hmm..
Here is his comment on that..
QuoteSo I guess this means that the battle system will be completely overhauled and motion controls will be added when you only use the remote. Or, as Arbok said, you might only be able to play certain modes with the remote only.
Hmm? How do you do smashes and dashes with just the Wii Remote?
If I get the chance to tell you, I will.
But then this brings up huge balancing issues. Do they allow some people to play with only the remote and others to use the Cube controller at the same time? If so, even if they spent all the time in the world balancing, wouldn't one setup still have an inherent advantage over the other? Everyone wouldn't be on an even playing field to begin with. And with online, this is an even bigger problem.
Wow, I'm so confused..
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 07, 2007, 08:56:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caterkiller
I know im going to want to go with the classic controller all the way!
You're crazy. Classic controller controls are going to be ass due to the awkward position of the analog stick.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 07, 2007, 09:02:54 PM
Huge balance issues? As long as everyone can do all the moves, any vague advantages any control schemes have seem to me like splitting hairs or largely down to personal preference.
Anyway, this is good news. It essentially comes down to "if you have a Wii, you can play Brawl." The new motion controls could even widen the game's audience even further, if they're intuitive.
Post by: Artimus on June 08, 2007, 12:27:41 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 08, 2007, 12:31:11 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 08, 2007, 01:11:35 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 08, 2007, 02:47:04 AM
They gave us the information we want to know, but did not give everything away.
I kinda fill blue-balled, but at least it was by the best.
As for how it will all control let the speculation begin...but I will simply say...all you need is what 4 buttons for Smash Bros to work...so all the control methods work with that.
As for me, I will be playing with the Classic Controller. The analog sticks are not that poorly placed that you can't play the game, and besides I don't have Gamecube Controllers anymore...I guess I could go buy some, but I would rather just use the classic.
The classic controller is going to open a great debate though. Nintendo created a great controller with the Gamecube, but many critized it for being poorly shaped and preventing different button combinations easily. Will Brawl be able to answer which button layout is better the traditional round buttons, or the nice easily recongized (by feel) Cube buttons.
Just realized one final thing...those that love to jump with buttons, are probably going to have to use the classic or Gamecube controllers....though it could be possible to impliment that with the Nunchuck and Remote combo...which may actually make a great control scheme.
Post by: Ceric on June 08, 2007, 03:20:42 AM
With just the Wiimote why not tilting left or right to move left or right like in Sonic and the Secret Rings? Then you free up the D-pad and the A button. Plus I don't know why they don't use the B button in the horizontal config becuse I can tap or hold it really easy myself. Also to do Smash moves you could just jar it up or down while pressing the the respective button. Up D-pad could be jump and down D-Pad could be duck. Maybe even designate A as jump. There are possibilities though.
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 08, 2007, 05:41:18 AM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 08, 2007, 06:00:35 AM
QuoteRoll:
Originally posted by: IceCold
But I seriously don't understand how only the remote can be used.
Dodge:
Jump:
Shield or Grab if done together with attack button:
Smash could even be done with variations of these (ie: Sideways Smash done with the first one and the attack button), but in any case, I'm pretty sure they could come up with way better ideas than these.... so don't worry too much
Post by: wandering on June 08, 2007, 06:14:43 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 08, 2007, 06:19:43 AM
I hope I can have more willpower when MP3 news start to appear.At first I was preparing a healthy-sized rant on how much I hate the remote being underused and how lame this gc controller/gesture thing is, basically TP all over again, then I realize that smash is probably one of the few games that can pull it off. The remote-only is the one that intrigues me the most, since smash games are heavily oriented towards stick controls (as opposed to every other fighter game and their stubbornness sticking with the old d-pad), I guess the remote will emulate a big stick, which seems kind of interesting.
The classic controller can die in a fire for all I care, its the deformed lovechild of a dualshock(ugh) and the SNES (glorious) controller, and for a game that puts such big emphasis on the control stick it will suck for sure with its horrible stick placement.
Besides Sakurai already choose GC, "feel that powerful rumble!", I can't help to agree
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 08:41:03 AM
SSB is based around a level of twitch gameplay that makes the small delay in motion control a HUGE hurdle when fighting a skilled opponent.
Post by: Adrock on June 08, 2007, 09:03:11 AM
But yeah, I kind of feel that the Wavebird or even the Classic Controller is the way to go. The whole gameplay system was built around traditional controls so unless they changed the system, it's hard to imagine motion controls working better. Not that it can't, I just find it hard to imagine.
I wish Nintendo would release a wireless traditional controller for Wii. I know I've said that before so I won't get into the intricacies of it, but I'd still like to see it happen. I've worn out several controllers from basically Melee alone. And I haven't seen many GCN controllers at stores though I suppose Nintendo could ramp up production, but if a Wavebird is $35, I'd rather spend that money on a traditional controller built specifically for Wii. I digress...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 08, 2007, 09:22:46 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 08, 2007, 09:36:08 AM
1-Attack
2-Special
B-Block
A-Grab and Throw
D-Pad movement.
Rolls=Block and Move remote left or right
Dodge=Block and Move Controller up or down
Smash Attacks: Hold Attack Button to charge and then Swing controller in any 4 directions.
There you go perfect controls with just the Wiimote.
Moving on to Wiimote + analog later.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 09:43:55 AM
Remember that holding block while pressing A was/is grab/throw, and they COULD manage to use that.
However, I can see double-tapping a direction counting as a tap whereas only tapping it once counts as a lean. Anything else won't work as motion control users will just get their sh*t wrecked by GC players.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 08, 2007, 09:59:02 AM
Can anyone think of something I missed?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 10:01:39 AM
But yeah, that could work without any motion control, and since the game will use GC and classic controllers, we know it WILL be possible to play without motion control so those playing with it will be creamed by those on regular controllers.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 08, 2007, 10:05:50 AM
The control I described above probably isn't a bit slower than with a GC controller. In fact, it may be faster, but you lose some control over direction by using a D-pad rather than a joystick to move, it's a trade off, though.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 08, 2007, 10:18:24 AM
Sure it isn't perfect, but Taunt isn't used often at all.
All the motion controls should be for the Smashes alone so not to confuse people.
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2007, 12:00:27 PM
QuoteWell, I agree with you that the people who care about balance will probably use the best option online or otherwise.
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Huge balance issue is solved.
BUT, what if you only have two remotes and two Cube controllers, and you want to play a 4-player game. Two of the people will be at a disadvantage from the getgo if one of the options is a better alternative.
Post by: Kairon on June 08, 2007, 12:27:36 PM
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 08, 2007, 01:53:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
GC users will eat Wiimote users alive if motion control is implemented.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Anything else won't work as motion control users will just get their sh*t wrecked by GC players.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
But yeah, that could work without any motion control, and since the game will use GC and classic controllers, we know it WILL be possible to play without motion control so those playing with it will be creamed by those on regular controllers.
so tell me Mr I-predict-the-FUTUAH, when will the world implode?
seriously, you are aware that the controls haven't been revealed yet, right?
Post by: Ceric on June 08, 2007, 02:48:58 PM
I doubt they do anything like that. I also know from experience that no matter how weird the control scheme their will be people who master it and stand on par with the best of the best.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 08, 2007, 03:01:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteWell, I agree with you that the people who care about balance will probably use the best option online or otherwise.
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Huge balance issue is solved.
BUT, what if you only have two remotes and two Cube controllers, and you want to play a 4-player game. Two of the people will be at a disadvantage from the getgo if one of the options is a better alternative.
You're really making too big of a deal out of this. If you're really competitive, you can buy a couple more controllers so everyone's using the same control scheme. Was this a problem with the 'Cube? Oh noez, I have to buy two more controllers because I only have two! What, you bought a Wii and only two controllers expecting two to be enough to play with four players?
And if you're just four guys playing together for fun, it doesn't matter if one control scheme is technically slightly faster. If it's really that big of a deal to you, doesn't SSB have a handicap setting?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 03:22:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
so tell me Mr I-predict-the-FUTUAH, when will the world implode?
seriously, you are aware that the controls haven't been revealed yet, right?
Do you own a Wii?
Do you notice that there is an extra .25-.5 second delay in the reaction time of the Wiimote when using motion sensing features?
Do you understand that two players who are evenly skilled (even if they both suck) using a GC controller and a Wiimote (if motion sensing is used) will see an advantage in favor of the GC user because of the far, far lower reaction times?
This isn't about the "future" at all: motion-sensing will cripple the player using it if playing against a non-motion user, period.
I think it can be pulled off with just a Wiimote by using double taps to replace stick taps and single taps for stick leans: double-tapping is a time-honored means of indicating a different command in a certain direction.
However, yes, if motion sensing is used, I think it'll be s hinderance to players using it against players who aren't using it.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 08, 2007, 03:59:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Do you notice that there is an extra .25-.5 second delay in the reaction time of the Wiimote when using motion sensing features?
That's an exageration. Half a second is a long time. It's closer to a tenth or a fifth max.
Post by: IceCold on June 08, 2007, 04:12:56 PM
QuoteAnd that's only with games like WiiSports tennis. Tilting is usually almost instantaneous.
That's an exageration. Half a second is a long time. It's closer to a tenth or a fifth max.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 06:25:18 PM
Second, the GC player is still going to have a definite advantage. It takes longer for a person to shake a Wiimote in a direction than it takes for them to tap an analogue stick in a direction and hit a button at the same time (or hit the C-stick in a direction, which some expert players do because it's faster as it doesn't initiate a charged smash).
I have no reason to care in the long run as I'll be playing with all wavebirds (I demand a jump button), but motion controls WILL reduce a player's reaction time because it introduces a lag time where before there was none.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 08, 2007, 07:34:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I don't think tilting would work well either because you'd need to hold the controller level at all times to get the proper reaction.
It sure is hard to drive straight in Excite Truck.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 08:16:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
It sure is hard to drive straight in Excite Truck.
Because when you tilt the controller to the left by accident, the truck will execute an attack in mid-air, miss the ledge and get KOed, right?
And two levels of lateral control won't work. Pressing the d-pad left while executing a smash to the right will feel weird.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 08, 2007, 08:29:25 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:32:31 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 08:34:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Tilting doesn't necessarily have to engage an attack. It could be a modifier for button presses. Either way, though, you could have a reasonable dead zone so you wouldn't have to hold the remote inhumanly steady.
Too imprecise.
And one of the things that Sonic SR's creator mentioned was that every player holds the Wiimote differently and as such you need to account for it.
Then there's the coordination it would take to tilt the controller while moving your character around at the same time. I highly doubt most people will have the necessary coordination to pull it off, let alone it being "casual friendly".
And all that aside, tilting the controller still takes more time than executing a smash attack on a GC controller. If we both go to smash at the same time and I have the GC controller, I win.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:35:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Tilting doesn't necessarily have to engage an attack. It could be a modifier for button presses. Either way, though, you could have a reasonable dead zone so you wouldn't have to hold the remote inhumanly steady.
Too imprecise.
And one of the things that Sonic SR's creator mentioned was that every player holds the Wiimote differently and as such you need to account for it.
Then there's the coordination it would take to tilt the controller while moving your character around at the same time. I highly doubt most people will have the necessary coordination to pull it off, let alone it being "casual friendly".
And all that aside, tilting the controller still takes more time than executing a smash attack on a GC controller. If we both go to smash at the same time and I have the GC controller, I win.
I don't think we need to be quoting SR's creator, that is almost a slap in the face to Nintendo.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2007, 08:37:57 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 08, 2007, 08:40:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
All I mean is that people hold the controller differently and that will play into which control schemes will and will not work.
Yeah I know I'm just teasing you.
Post by: EasyCure on June 09, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
and so what if you're playing against someone with a wiimote and they cant pull off a smash attack as fast as you can, you win! pat yourself on the back and get over it for being a better player soley because you chose a differnet input method.
there will be people that may enjoy playing with the wiimote so much that they stick to it, ultimately gaining experiance and becoming good players. some might become great players. they may learn to face off evenly against skilled Stick users.
besides, its unknown if motion controlls will be implmented or not so theres no need for petty arguments, other than to amuse some of us but it goes so on so much in this thread its getting annoying and making me look forward to PASSING on this game. thanks a bunch
Post by: mantidor on June 09, 2007, 09:46:18 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 09, 2007, 10:55:09 AM
Post by: EasyCure on June 09, 2007, 04:33:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
mantidor, don't listen to them. especially in this thread.
QFT
Post by: Strell on June 09, 2007, 07:08:30 PM
It would be satisfying in a way your mom isn't, except on my birthday.
Post by: Mario on June 09, 2007, 10:36:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 09, 2007, 10:40:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
I'll be using the GC controller for one reason, to save batteries.
But what if it is a wavebird, you wouldn't be saving batteries then!
Post by: Mario on June 09, 2007, 10:58:35 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 09, 2007, 11:13:18 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 10, 2007, 04:35:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
I'll be using the GC controller for one reason, to save batteries.
But what if it is a wavebird, you wouldn't be saving batteries then!
Not true. The Wavebird has a better lifetime on batteries then the Wiimote.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2007, 10:12:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
I'll be using the GC controller for one reason, to save batteries.
But what if it is a wavebird, you wouldn't be saving batteries then!
Not true. The Wavebird has a better lifetime on batteries then the Wiimote.
Is that the case though if you turn off rumble. My Wiimotes last a long time.
Post by: Ceric on June 10, 2007, 11:51:46 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 02:18:57 PM
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Originally posted by: EasyCure and so what if you're playing against someone with a wiimote and they cant pull off a smash attack as fast as you can, you win! pat yourself on the back and get over it for being a better player soley because you chose a differnet input method.
See, this is EXACTLY my issue with the idea.
I love intense competition, especially in SSB. The best games ever are the ones between four people where ANYONE could win, where the odds are basically 25% across the board.
Playing against a handicapped player is just an insult.
That said, I'm not saying it's a big deal, just that GC users WILL have an advantage.
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what!? the remote has noticeable delay!? O_o really? that sucks if true, but this is the first time I've read something about that.
The motion sensing can never be 100% immediate due to the fact that the sensor is using inertia to read the direction of the motion.
This may not seem like a big deal, but in a game between even-skilled players, one will have an advantage with a GC controller.
And there are some people who won't care, but I'm personally against violating the basic integrity of the game by training people using incorrect timing. Move lag plays a huge role in fighting games so it would make sense to train people correctly from the start.
It's like playing DDR barefoot: at some point, you're going to have to learn to play with shoes and relearning it takes a while.
Yeah, it won't effect me personally, and I'm not saying it matters, only that, for those with just Wiimotes when the game releases, motion control WILL make you slower.
And for those of you who wonder why I'm so passionate about the subject, it's my name for a reason.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2007, 05:33:50 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 05:37:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash proves my point that Smash Brothers should have only used the Wiimote.
Yeah, then you'd say the motion control makes it too hard and yell at the people who don't have a problem with it.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2007, 05:40:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash proves my point that Smash Brothers should have only used the Wiimote.
Yeah, then you'd say the motion control makes it too hard and yell at the people who don't have a problem with it.
I only have a problem with crappy motion control.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 05:42:53 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2007, 05:43:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I can't imagine anything more shoehorned and wagglicious than mapping SSB moves to motion control.
We will never know all I know is that MK got a good reception and I don't see why Nintendo can't do better with a Wiimote/Nunchuck combo.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 05:46:22 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 10, 2007, 05:48:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'd say it's because MK had been doing poorly so anything was an improvement over previous iterations.
Ah so that explains why you like Sonic and the Secret Rings.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 10, 2007, 05:52:39 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 10, 2007, 06:05:27 PM
Also, MKA wasn't that bad. I haven't tried the Wii version, but the Xbox version was entertaining for a (free) rental. It was also pretty neat having like 4000 characters, even if many of them were lame.
Post by: LuigiHann on June 10, 2007, 06:47:11 PM
*The sideways remote may not use motion controls, or if it does, might use them in a way that's different from what you expect.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 10, 2007, 09:13:25 PM
Even though I didn't find Melee's balance issues to be as bad as some, I do agree Fox needs to be changed because his character in Melee can be very cheap. And from the looks of these images they've indeed changed Fox which really points to him being balanced out in this game.
Post by: joepiinion on June 11, 2007, 02:29:01 AM
How can you find so much to complain about regarding the controls??? You guys look way too deep into these updates, and in all the wrong places. Everyone wants to be the first to say, "this screen shot proves this!" or "this update proves the gave will have these problems!"
Come ON. The wiimote-only control could be ANYTHING. But what if to walk, you press the d-pad over? And then what if in order to run, you press the d-pad over AND are moving the remote in some way, like tilting it or shifting it? And what if attacks worked in a similar manner? That way the trigger would be a button press, not a wiimote action. WOW! Genius! That's just too crazy!
Sheesh. Some of you guys need to log off for a while and just go enjoy some SSB:M.
EDIT: PS, this should really end all of the control complaining, regarding these controls ruining the sacredness of the basis of competitive perfection of Smash or something, but I know it won't.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 11, 2007, 03:22:50 AM
If you know about since...theory that is untested is almost always highly debated. Heck even theory that is highly regarded is debated...so why would it be much different about information for a game, we can play and test?
The question about controls is just one of curiosity, trying to figure out how it will play, and IF it will play as good as the others...because the control of the game is literally the most important aspect of any game.
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2007, 03:28:59 AM
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 11, 2007, 03:44:41 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2007, 03:47:00 AM
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 11, 2007, 04:09:18 AM
Like the characters are old news to us right now. Unless they release a new one.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 11, 2007, 04:19:13 AM
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Originally posted by: joepiinion Sheesh. Some of you guys need to log off for a while and just go enjoy some SSB:M.
That would first require Melee to be enjoyable.
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 11, 2007, 04:25:45 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 11, 2007, 05:40:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
well some things. I just would like them to release more music and stages
Like the characters are old news to us right now. Unless they release a new one.
Yeah, but they're doing an update every week day for at LEAST several more months. They need to pace themselves.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 11, 2007, 05:42:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
melee is very enjoyable. Dont know why u dont like it. Anyone will tell you SSBM is a very fun game.
I was really just rebuking a comment made against me, but SSB64 was and forever will be a superior game in my eyes.
Also, I don't listen to "anyone" because "anyone" can be a brain-dead, drooling idiot with no redeeming social or intellectual value to speak of.
You might say I'm a people person...
Post by: IceCold on June 11, 2007, 12:40:41 PM
QuoteThey did it even better in Donkey Kong Jungle Beat. Of course the Wii's capable of it; it's just a stylistic choice.
Is the Wii incapable of hair? They did it in Star Fox Dinosaur Planet...
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 11, 2007, 01:05:52 PM
Fox is supposed to be more well-groomed.
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 11, 2007, 01:21:38 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 11, 2007, 02:55:27 PM
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 11, 2007, 02:56:33 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 11, 2007, 03:46:45 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 11, 2007, 04:22:41 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 11, 2007, 05:42:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
melee is very enjoyable. Dont know why u dont like it. Anyone will tell you SSBM is a very fun game.
I was really just rebuking a comment made against me, but SSB64 was and forever will be a superior game in my eyes.
Also, I don't listen to "anyone" because "anyone" can be a brain-dead, drooling idiot with no redeeming social or intellectual value to speak of.
You might say I'm a people person...
Wow, I thought that I was the only one to think that the original SSB was a much more solid game than Melee, not to say that I think it was a horrible game or anything.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 11, 2007, 06:05:05 PM
SSB could have been a bit faster, but Melee was too fast for most non-hardcore gaming types to keep up, thus alienating all of my SSB64-loving friends. If Brawl is 80-85% of Melee's speed, it'll be just fine by me.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 11, 2007, 07:51:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I thought the paced, tighter control of SSB was superior to that of Melee, one reason I'm happy to see that Brawl is a bit slower.
SSB could have been a bit faster, but Melee was too fast for most non-hardcore gaming types to keep up, thus alienating all of my SSB64-loving friends. If Brawl is 80-85% of Melee's speed, it'll be just fine by me.
Because you aren't a hardcore gamer if your reflexes are slow.
Post by: Shecky on June 12, 2007, 01:59:00 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 12, 2007, 02:00:33 AM
But unfortunately, the speed increase made several character unbalanced in skill and hurt slower character making them much harder to use effectively.
There are several reasons why people may enjoy the original more, as well why people may like Melee more.
I personally enjoyed the single player Event Challenges and Adventure mode of Melee, but enjoyed the multiplayer aspects of the original more, because I could get more friends to play the original.
It just felt more simplistic in a good way.
I agree with Smash Brother that speed needs to be dealt with. I like the slowing down to about 80% of Melee's speed or perhaps 75%, but I also think it is necessary to give heavier slower characters more advantages over the speed characters.
Melee was a great game, but it wasn't perfect, and as such we can discuss ideas on how to improve the game.
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 12, 2007, 02:03:48 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 12, 2007, 02:06:53 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 12, 2007, 02:12:22 AM
Personally it doesn't bother me, because it hits the original game so well. I like the tilting platform, and I am curious what that will do for the game play...and save ghost is very interesting.
However, it also makes me hope for the classic levels from melee and the original Brawl to be hidden in the game, because these levels are appearing to be much different than the originals.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 12, 2007, 02:43:35 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 12, 2007, 06:17:40 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 12, 2007, 06:38:12 AM
As for heavy characters, we postulated back in the early days of Melee that they could better balance speed vs. weight by making it so heavy characters shrug off small attacks (like the metal cap in Melee). When Fox kicks Bowser in the middle of his forward smash, Bowser shouldn't stop to cringe in the middle of it but he should take the damage and nail Fox.
Maybe make it damage related: heavy characters won't start cringing until they reach a certain damage %.
In SSBM, Bowser's trophy blurb suggested that the best way to attack him is straight on. I still think that was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard because the point of heavy characters should be that coming straight at them is suicide. Heavy characters should need to be attacked indirectly with faster attacks in an effort to run them up on damage before they can be knocked around.
I'm having mixed feelings about these stages. Most of them seem pretty similar except for scenery changes. With Halberd, Delphino, Fox's stage and Yoshi's, it sounds like most of these levels will do the "single platform with moving background" deal. I hope we have more variety seen later on.
Can't wait to see what they do for Wario's level...
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2007, 07:02:53 AM
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Maybe make it damage related: heavy characters won't start cringing until they reach a certain damage %.
Yeah. Basically my big problem with both previou Smash games was that fast characters ruled. I wanted to like Bowser. It was just so pointless.
As for the stages, I like what I've seen so far. Certainly, they're aiming for more than Melee (and possibly more past stages included, though I hope they remake them). I still want to see a Create-A-Stage feature. There are so many possibilities. And with the rumored hard drive, there'd be space to store them all. I know most people are apprehensive about a HD. I wouldn't buy one without a game that could justify it, but if any game could, it'd be Brawl.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 12, 2007, 08:42:47 AM
And as much as I love Bowser, I play him as a handicap but still win frequently. If I play as Fox, I never lose.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 12, 2007, 09:27:29 AM
Now players can crawl, so perhaps they took this to another level allowing crawling and attacking to work much better for characters in Bowser's line.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 12, 2007, 09:34:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm having mixed feelings about these stages. Most of them seem pretty similar except for scenery changes. With Halberd, Delphino, Fox's stage and Yoshi's, it sounds like most of these levels will do the "single platform with moving background" deal. I hope we have more variety seen later on.
Can't wait to see what they do for Wario's level...
The way I see it, Melee had plenty of interactive stages (the ones you could sometimes would run away from), but also had many simple and stationary stages. So if they are taking a cue from Melee, only a hand will be of the "changing background" while the others will have their own quirks and features.
Post by: ThePerm on June 12, 2007, 11:34:50 AM
Post by: Patchkid15 on June 12, 2007, 11:56:38 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 12, 2007, 01:21:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Because you aren't a hardcore gamer if your reflexes are slow.
I don't get what you're trying to say here. I think you're being sarcastic, and suggesting that people with slow reflexes can be hardcore gamers?
I might disagree with you. "Hardcore gamer" is a nebulous term, and I don't know that there are many requirements, but one of the things that hardcore gamers tend to have is fast reaction time. Even if it's not a pre-requisite, playing fast-paced games presumably improves your reaction time. So it would make sense that hardcore gamers would have faster reaction times then some non-gamers, although I'm sure plenty of non-gamers have perfectly adequate reflexes, and I'm sure there are some gamers, such as myself, with stupidly slow reflexes. But most of my hardcore Melee-playing friends have faster reflexes, and I consider them "more hardcore" for that and other reasons.
O_o
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on June 12, 2007, 02:00:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Because you aren't a hardcore gamer if your reflexes are slow.
I don't get what you're trying to say here. I think you're being sarcastic, and suggesting that people with slow reflexes can be hardcore gamers?
I might disagree with you. "Hardcore gamer" is a nebulous term, and I don't know that there are many requirements, but one of the things that hardcore gamers tend to have is fast reaction time. Even if it's not a pre-requisite, playing fast-paced games presumably improves your reaction time. So it would make sense that hardcore gamers would have faster reaction times then some non-gamers, although I'm sure plenty of non-gamers have perfectly adequate reflexes, and I'm sure there are some gamers, such as myself, with stupidly slow reflexes. But most of my hardcore Melee-playing friends have faster reflexes, and I consider them "more hardcore" for that and other reasons.
O_o
Yes I was just poking fun at this statement by Smash Brother:
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SSB could have been a bit faster, but Melee was too fast for most non-hardcore gaming types to keep up, thus alienating all of my SSB64-loving friends. If Brawl is 80-85% of Melee's speed, it'll be just fine by me.
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 12, 2007, 02:32:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
To change topics... I think the new Yoshi's island level looks beautiful.
It does indeed and it will look even better in motion. I wonder if the seasonal changes will affect gameplay in any way? Perhaps in winter the ground becomes icey and therefore player control becomes more slippery similar to the Fountain of Dreams stage in SSBM. In Autumn leaves could litter the ground reducing walk speed of characters.
Post by: UniversalJuan on June 12, 2007, 04:46:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
They toyed around with those ideas, Smash_Brother. When you duck and take an attack, it has much less of an effect on your character. With someone like Bowser, he really does shrug it off. The problem was that there wasn't much you could do while ducking to make it work. For most characters, eventually this would cause them to fly away horizontally, without any real height upon high damage and heavy hit, but this technique works very well for Bowser in the higher damage ranges. With good timing, a solid Bowser player can take great advantage of this, though so few player as Bowser to start with, so most, if any, use it in lower percentages for other characters, opting not to get hit at all, anyways.
Now players can crawl, so perhaps they took this to another level allowing crawling and attacking to work much better for characters in Bowser's line.
The technique you're referring to is called crouch cancelling. An invaluble technique for all characters light or heavy. Oh, and I'm not even about to touch S_B with this topic again. I'm just going to sit back and use my own experiences in tournament eviroments (Yay for tourney-level Peach players!) for my judgement calls.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 12, 2007, 05:24:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan I'm just going to sit back and use my own experiences in tournament eviroments (Yay for tourney-level Peach players!) for my judgement calls.
Don't get mad at me.
Get mad at Ken, Bombsoldier and all of the others tournament champions who generate the tiers.
Post by: UniversalJuan on June 12, 2007, 05:37:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: UniversalJuan I'm just going to sit back and use my own experiences in tournament eviroments (Yay for tourney-level Peach players!) for my judgement calls.
Don't get mad at me.
Get mad at Ken, Bombsoldier and all of the others tournament champions who generate the tiers.
You think Peach can survive something like this?
I've seen Ken, Bombsoldier, etc etc vids more than you can possibly know. Yes, she can (Look it up, there a couple of vids of PEach either winning or coming within 1 life of beating Ken) So yeah, it is more than possible to survive. But like I said, I'm avoiding this subject because no amount of evidence in the world will ever prove me right.
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2007, 08:21:45 PM
This is the only update I've been absolutely disappointed in. The Smash Ball I can deal with. You know, whatever. Butchering one of my favorite themes from one of my favorite series is just... blasphemy.
Maybe I'm overreacting a little. I've listened to it a few times now and I just don't like it. There's just too much going on that it sounds cluttered. Oh dear....
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 12, 2007, 08:27:31 PM
Post by: Shecky on June 13, 2007, 01:20:53 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 13, 2007, 01:54:40 AM
Post by: Sarail on June 13, 2007, 03:34:50 AM
Plus, maybe this is a hint that Ridley is a possible secret playable character.
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2007, 03:54:11 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 13, 2007, 04:20:59 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 13, 2007, 04:26:30 AM
The first Adventure mode was fun, but in the end didn't capture the feel of all the different games well.
Of course the ones that felt most accurate were:
Mario,
Metroid,
F-Zero (believe it or not)
I would like adventure mode to be about experiencing one aspect of that game.
Be it running through an authentic level of that game.
Going through a turn based Smash Bros. Battle in a traditional RPG style.
Facing a giant Alien Boss.
Be forced to do some crazy Micro Games to advance.
Solve typical Puzzles from the game.
Escape a Maze.
Basically, I want to feel like Smash Bros is putting me inside the different Nintendo games and worlds with my combatant. The last adventure mode didn't feel that way at all...instead it felt like I was being forced to do strange battles that made no sense. (A giant Kirby after facing all the other Kirbys, or a Giant Donkey Kong after facing mini Donkey Kongs)
Heck, Donkey Kong's level would be great as a single screen adventure level that cancelled your attack and double jump and made you climb up to save the girl from Donkey Kong...and then you end up in a battle on that level now switched to a more traditional Smash Bros level.
A fun Pokemon Adventure level would be to have battles with different Pokemon that Ash throws out at you. You have to attack the Pokemon and defeat them, without hurting Ash too much as to disqualify you from the battle.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 13, 2007, 05:08:53 AM
Going through a turn based Smash Bros. Battle in a traditional RPG style. - No way
Facing a giant Alien Boss. - Done
Be forced to do some crazy Micro Games to advance. - Hell no
Solve typical Puzzles from the game. - No
Escape a Maze. - ...Maybe
No matter what games are represented in Smash Bros., it's still its own game. I don't want to play Wario Ware when I'm playing Smash Bros. If I want to play Wario Ware, I'll put Wario Ware in the system instead. I do like the idea of a Donkey Kong level, although there's no reason to take away any abilities, because that's paying homage to the old game within the gameplay of Smash Bros. Once you take Smash Bros. out of it, though, you're no longer paying homage, you're just playing a crappy version of another game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 13, 2007, 05:42:26 AM
I understand that Smash Bros is its own game, but come on. If you have the regular single player mode, Vs mode, Event Battles, why not spice up the adventure mode for variety.
I think it would be fun. Most of the giant boss battles in Melee was not unqiue villians to a specific franchise, just either larger scary version of playable characters, or the final boss Master Hand.
I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.
The Super Mario level was cool but felt off because you were attacking the goombas with punches and kicks. Why not limit the abilities to only jumps so you must play that level in the means of playing a Mario game.
A Link Level could take place in a side scrolling Dungeon actually forcing you to solve puzzles along as monster. Like pushing blocks, hitting those eyes to open doors ect.
Ash actually fighting you 10 different Pokemon. Calling out attacks and such as you fight the Pokemon...the very end he puzzles out a Legendary Pokemon and your just like AHHHHH NUTZ!!!
A well placed lighthearted turn based level would not destory the adventure mode game...it would be fun.
Heck, if they could get a good 3D engine going a Metal Gear Solid sneaking around level could be a blast as well.
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2007, 09:12:23 AM
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I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.
I agree. While Adventure mode was a great idea, the levels were too few and just kind of lame. I've read that during Melee's development Miyamoto told Sakurai to focus squarely on multiplayer and that Sakurai had to practically beg to keep the expanded single player in tact. So, I feel that since Sakurai has basically been given free reign over Brawl, the single player aspects will be greatly improved.
I'd like to see:
- Randomly generated levels
- Real bosses... from the games that probably wouldn't work as playable characters, like Ridley
- Enemies that did more than walk
- a storyline
Post by: LuigiHann on June 13, 2007, 09:19:09 AM
I'd also love to see more of a storyline, with some kind of tongue-in-cheek explanations for traveling between worlds.
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2007, 09:19:32 AM
I agree with Adrock except I don't want a real storyline because it messes with the overall storyline of them being kids play things. Also I like to see the Koopa kids make an appearance as non-playable characters in a battle. I'm looking forward to a greatly expanded Single Player experience since I don't have anyone to multi with and enjoy the single player.
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2007, 09:34:27 AM
So I'd like to see a better way of explaining the Smash universe. It don't want long cutscenes or anything like that. Just a better way of connecting all these characters and worlds.
Post by: LuigiHann on June 13, 2007, 09:48:07 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 13, 2007, 10:38:10 AM
SSBB is Nintendo's flagship MULTIPLAYER game.
If they botch yet another SSB game with clones and cut corners because they spend too much time focusing on the single player instead of the multiplayer, then I will eat all of Sakurai's children, starting with the most tender and moving to the stringiest.
Let me further illustrate this point with a graph for better effectiveness...
No one is going to buy SSBB for the single player, and even if you do, guess what? You will be able to play it ONLINE so you will still enjoy more multiplayer aspects of it because, no matter HOW much they focus on the single player, it will not be played anywhere near as long as the multiplayer, period.
So, bottom line: if you want to play Metroid, SMB or Zelda, go play that and let SSB be SSB.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 13, 2007, 10:39:22 AM
Uh, what? If anything, Melee was a big departure from SSB64 with its Teen rating... =|
Post by: Ceric on June 13, 2007, 10:49:15 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2007, 11:10:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant. It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes. Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe. Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in. It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences. Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time. No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.
Quoted For 'Effin Truth.
Smash is beautiful. Stop trying to hardcore my game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 13, 2007, 11:35:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
I want to feel something more like I am actually in the actual games, not just running around through their world just waiting to Smash something.
I agree. While Adventure mode was a great idea, the levels were too few and just kind of lame. I've read that during Melee's development Miyamoto told Sakurai to focus squarely on multiplayer and that Sakurai had to practically beg to keep the expanded single player in tact. So, I feel that since Sakurai has basically been given free reign over Brawl, the single player aspects will be greatly improved.
I'd like to see:
- Randomly generated levels
- Real bosses... from the games that probably wouldn't work as playable characters, like Ridley
- Enemies that did more than walk
- a storyline
This is exactly what I want to see. I think a solid Single player experience is important, and I hope that a new revived focus is created for it.
Personally, I think the toys work for this idea. I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.
I am happy with the kids playing with toys and using their imaginations to create the worlds and wonderful sceneros.
It is perfect, but we do need Bosses from games that could never be playable, and a nice blend of other elements of the games which inspired Brawl.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 13, 2007, 11:46:09 AM
Know what happens when a single game tries to be a game for all genres? You get Sonic Adventure.
Let Smash be Smash.
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2007, 12:39:34 PM
Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
no matter HOW much they focus on the single player, it will not be played anywhere near as long as the multiplayer, period.
The same could be said of any game with great multiplayer. I don't think developers should automatically shun the single player experience just because the multiplayer mode will be played more. In Smash, much of the multiplayer is unlocked through the single player game. I feel that improving the single player game improves all aspects of the overall game. Smash will always be known for its multiplayer, but a great single-player mode would be like getting 2 great games in one. It's still the Smash we all know and love, just with a better single player game.
Quote
Ceric wrote:
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant. It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes. Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe. Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in. It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences. Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time. No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.
I'm sorry, but that's seriously like the weakest argument ever. Consider, for example, that both Samus and Link were in Super Mario RPG. They don't belong there, but that doesn't matter. A Metroid game is never going to reference Samus' stay in the Mushroom Kingdom. What I'm suggesting is an independent Smash universe in which a storyline wouldn't be considered canon among any of the series represented.
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
Personally, I think the toys work for this idea. I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.
I know what you and Ceric are saying. The toy/trophy thing works as a way of bringing the characters together. I just don't like it. It's lame. A storyline could work and maybe even justify an overhauled and far deeper Adventure mode. It doesn't have to be a Kingdom Hearts like story. Just something competent and interesting to link all the characters and worlds together.
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2007, 02:23:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
Ceric wrote:
I'm sorry Adrock but I think the whole toy/trophy thing is brilliant. It allows all the characters to interact without having to worry about muddling each other universes. Samus nor Link will ever know that Mario exist because he doesn't in there universe. Throw in Smash and you start mixing thing up if the actual characters come in. It also makes it easy to explain some of the little differences. Not to mention the different sizes and having multiple of the same character at a given time. No it explains things to well to be replaced by a hard story.
I'm sorry, but that's seriously like the weakest argument ever. Consider, for example, that both Samus and Link were in Super Mario RPG. They don't belong there, but that doesn't matter. A Metroid game is never going to reference Samus' stay in the Mushroom Kingdom. What I'm suggesting is an independent Smash universe in which a storyline wouldn't be considered canon among any of the series represented.Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
Personally, I think the toys work for this idea. I don't want a large story Kingdom Hearts style of any kind telling me why I am playing these characters.
I know what you and Ceric are saying. The toy/trophy thing works as a way of bringing the characters together. I just don't like it. It's lame. A storyline could work and maybe even justify an overhauled and far deeper Adventure mode. It doesn't have to be a Kingdom Hearts like story. Just something competent and interesting to link all the characters and worlds together.
Ah, I get what you're saying now Adrock. You mean a storyline that's fun and playful more than anything. They don't need to be toys, the storyline is just a narrative throw-away giving them all excuses to be together... but FUN and non-serious ones!
I'm for that. I thought you were implying that they should go for some epic, serious, and hardcore-y Kingdom Hearts storyline that tries to be more than it is. I'm against that, but if they put a storyline that's as light and playful as the adventure mode in Melee, then I'm all for it. No one questioned that when you got blown off of Zebes that you landed on Kirby's Warp Star World!
Post by: that Baby guy on June 13, 2007, 02:38:57 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 13, 2007, 02:57:15 PM
Btw, did anybody notice that Super Paper Mario's premise was basically a dumbed-down kingdom hearts?
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 13, 2007, 03:37:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock Smash will always be known for its multiplayer, but a great single-player mode would be like getting 2 great games in one. It's still the Smash we all know and love, just with a better single player game.
I have no problem with THAT.
What I DO have a problem with is that they worked on the single player mode while the multiplayer mode was still horribly lacking via clones, sh*tty secret character lineup and balance issues up the wazoo.
Halo 2's single player ended abruptly. Does anyone care? Of course not, because it's remembered as the game that sold 8 million copies and had the best online multiplayer on the Xbox.
No one remembers SSBM for the adventure mode.
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2007, 03:38:52 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on June 13, 2007, 03:44:58 PM
How about Sonic Battle. Nope, no one remembers that one either...
Hmmm.... That NES fighting game where you are some kind of Karate master, and people kill you. You know the one I'm talking about. I think you go down stairs at some point. Anyone else remember this thing?
Post by: Shecky on June 13, 2007, 04:04:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If they botch yet another SSB game with clones and cut corners because they spend too much time focusing on the single player instead of the multiplayer, then I will eat all of Sakurai's children, starting with the most tender and moving to the stringiest.
Heh, for the record, I think clones are more for a tweak on one particular character. You'll not they're not exactly the same. Someone may want a slightly stronger version of Fox, well hey! you have Falco...
People complain about the weirdest things when it comes to this game. I kind of like the idea of putting some genuine thought into making adventure mode a bit more of a, well adventure. SSpank I think had some random thoughts and I'd love it if the developers went through the same brainstorming and came up with some truely unique elements for the adventure mode (by the way, it's likely better to make moves ineffective than to make them not available). The whole face this guy, then face a team of kirbies, then polygon team... it hasn't changed at all...
And if you think they cut corners on SSBM b/c of single player???? please! They spent all of five seconds on it... what did they do? add a little randomization? Instead of always starting with Link, it's random now! Whoopieee!
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2007, 04:14:59 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on June 13, 2007, 04:30:27 PM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 13, 2007, 05:32:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky And if you think they cut corners on SSBM b/c of single player???? please! They spent all of five seconds on it... what did they do? add a little randomization? Instead of always starting with Link, it's random now! Whoopieee!
You don't remember the adventure mode in SSBM?
Wait, of COURSE you don't! NO ONE does!
Post by: Kairon on June 13, 2007, 05:42:00 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2007, 06:25:40 PM
Quote
Kairon wrote:
I thought you were implying that they should go for some epic, serious, and hardcore-y Kingdom Hearts storyline that tries to be more than it is. I'm against that, but if they put a storyline that's as light and playful as the adventure mode in Melee, then I'm all for it. No one questioned that when you got blown off of Zebes that you landed on Kirby's Warp Star World!
Oh no, no, no, no... F*CK THAT! Keep epic plots away from my Smash Bros! The next step would be long, drawn out cut scenes and I HATE long, drawn out cutscenes. While I would like to see a Kingdom Hearts kind of game that brought all the Nintendo characters together (but no where near as serious and over-dramatic as KH), Smash isn't the game I want to see it in. It'd have to be an adventure/RPG or someting. Maybe Monolith Soft could... nevermind.
Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
What I DO have a problem with is that they worked on the single player mode while the multiplayer mode was still horribly lacking via clones, sh*tty secret character lineup and balance issues up the wazoo.
I always thought Melee was rushed to hit the holiday 2001 season. Gamecube absolutely needed that game to come out then. Hal Labs also had to rethink the original 12, something the new team doesn't have to (entirely). With Brawl, Sakurai has probably been given a larger (and most likely better) team than Hal Labs and more importantly, no strict deadline. It'll probably be released this year, but there's certainly no rush considering Wii's surprise success and already impressive upcoming 1st party lineup. That said, I think Brawl will be a better game all around.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 13, 2007, 09:34:34 PM
Post by: King of Twitch on June 13, 2007, 11:06:54 PM
Post by: Shecky on June 14, 2007, 12:49:17 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 14, 2007, 01:10:56 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2007, 01:46:02 AM
The Single player mode of Melee is actually what I played the most. Event challenges made me cry with many of their difficulty. The adventure mode was fun, and it was relaxing in many ways.
But this Brawl game just seems to be oozing with quality. Every musical sampling they have given us has been brilliant. Items and levels are being more thought out. Balance issues I am sure are being resolved, because the team working on the game has had hundreds of hours with Melee, and I am sure they know the balance problems inside out.
Which leaves Sakurai with the time to develop his single player vision like he desires, and work on getting some form of online play working. I think we can have our cake and eat it too. And I am just brainstorming ideas. I want Adventure mode to be awesome. I want Event mode to be Awesome...and I want multi-player mode to be awesome. And I don't want to compromise one mode for another.
Post by: Ceric on June 14, 2007, 02:26:56 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 14, 2007, 05:03:45 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 14, 2007, 05:47:03 AM
The sliding crates will be random in the same manner as exploding crates from Melee...
Post by: Ceric on June 14, 2007, 06:37:39 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 14, 2007, 07:04:32 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 14, 2007, 07:34:47 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 14, 2007, 10:28:18 AM
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Originally posted by: PartyBear
It's implied in the kind of weird, translated English that's easy to misinterpret, so I went to the pictures instead.
This is weirdly translated?
Quote
...By the way, this time we’ve thrown "sliding boxes" into the mix.
Makes sense to me.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 14, 2007, 10:56:52 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
As for moving crates, I just assumed that the Crates can be pushed (Zelda style) and if they hit a slope they would move. It would make sense specially if you can use the Crates for leverage and jumping. I could see several different strategies for team play and such with these Crates.
Post by: Khushrenada on June 14, 2007, 11:42:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
Well, I take this as a confirmation of a ridley battle as part of the adventure mode...
Just switching gears for a moment and going back to yesterday. I notive a few people were taking the music to be a sign that Ridley was in the game, if not a playable character. (Shecky's not the only one who said this but he was the first so I took his quote.) Anyways, if you ask me, (which no one did, [what's up with that?]), I think the music points towards the fact that there might be a Norfair stage instead. The only other music we have so far is the Smash Bros. theme and the Yoshi's Story: Ending theme. The Yoshi's story theme is most likely for the Yoshi Story stage. I think it's more logical to assume that the music only points towards a Norfair/Ridley stage for now.
While such a stage could mean Ridley is a playable character (and I'm still hoping for his inclusion), it could also mean another Lower Brinstar type stage. Except instead of Kraid in the background, you might see Ridley fly around and swoop down and attack on occasions.
Oh, and I also love the single player. I've spent a lot of time on that adventure mode.
Post by: Shecky on June 14, 2007, 12:56:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
ParyBear: I did notice that, and I thought it was pretty cool...I think it would be a simple idea to allow characters to jump on crates, even if they are moving. It would add positioning advantages.
As for moving crates, I just assumed that the Crates can be pushed (Zelda style) and if they hit a slope they would move. It would make sense specially if you can use the Crates for leverage and jumping. I could see several different strategies for team play and such with these Crates.
That would mean crates restrict your normal movement if you can push them, which would be a departure from the behavior in the past (go right through them).
Post by: Shecky on June 14, 2007, 01:08:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KhushrenadaQuote
Originally posted by: Shecky
Well, I take this as a confirmation of a ridley battle as part of the adventure mode...
Just switching gears for a moment and going back to yesterday. I notive a few people were taking the music to be a sign that Ridley was in the game, if not a playable character. (Shecky's not the only one who said this but he was the first so I took his quote.) Anyways, if you ask me, (which no one did, [what's up with that?]), I think the music points towards the fact that there might be a Norfair stage instead. The only other music we have so far is the Smash Bros. theme and the Yoshi's Story: Ending theme. The Yoshi's story theme is most likely for the Yoshi Story stage. I think it's more logical to assume that the music only points towards a Norfair/Ridley stage for now.
While such a stage could mean Ridley is a playable character (and I'm still hoping for his inclusion), it could also mean another Lower Brinstar type stage. Except instead of Kraid in the background, you might see Ridley fly around and swoop down and attack on occasions.
Oh, and I also love the single player. I've spent a lot of time on that adventure mode.
I think it's a natural progression to create more NPCs to both battle against in adventure and who make cameos on the various levels.
BTW, I just revisited the event mode and the pokeball battle has been done already
(no moves connect only pokeballs)Post by: Spak-Spang on June 14, 2007, 03:24:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
ParyBear: I did notice that, and I thought it was pretty cool...I think it would be a simple idea to allow characters to jump on crates, even if they are moving. It would add positioning advantages.
As for moving crates, I just assumed that the Crates can be pushed (Zelda style) and if they hit a slope they would move. It would make sense specially if you can use the Crates for leverage and jumping. I could see several different strategies for team play and such with these Crates.
That would mean crates restrict your normal movement if you can push them, which would be a departure from the behavior in the past (go right through them).
True but would that be a bad thing? After all...there are already several items that you can just walk past. We are talking about giant crates...why not allow a new twist to the game. It could add much to the game play.
1)Positioning Crates to prevent people from successfully cover.
2)Positioning yourself to attack players from a height advantage...or to make an unexpected higher/further leap.
Add to the concept of a sliding ground missle, and perhaps a surfboard type effect down a slope and attack, and you have some fun new ways to play with crates.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 14, 2007, 03:40:54 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 14, 2007, 11:46:54 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 15, 2007, 01:54:39 AM
Interesting that no mention of Samus turning into Zero Suit Samus. So either they decided to keep that a secret, or perhaps seperate the characters into two distinct characters.
Speaking of which anyone want to guess how Samus changes? From the video it seems like a sacrifice to making a Final Smash Attack, but perhaps it is a sacrifice to making a fully charged Blast from her arm cannon. If this is true, perhaps you have more options with the arm cannon. regular, fully charged blast, Mega charged blast, that turns you into Zero suit Samus?
Personally I am hoping for two completely different characters now.
Also does the picture of her attacking Link look like a redesign of her flame thrower attack? I loved that attack in Smash Bros, but can't remember if it was in Melee or not.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 15, 2007, 02:46:58 AM
(And yes, the flamethrower attack is in Melee...Not sure if what we are seeing in that screen is it, though...)
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 15, 2007, 02:48:26 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 15, 2007, 02:52:59 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 15, 2007, 03:13:22 AM
On the crates, I was thinking that if you cant just walk through them anymore maybe they'll let you dodge through them.
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 15, 2007, 06:08:28 AM
Post by: vudu on June 15, 2007, 07:29:11 AM
QuoteYeah ... the "certain condition" is when you choose Zero Suit Samus from the character selection menu.
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Considering the old Smash Brothers site directly stated the tie between the two characters (Zero Suit Samus appears under "certain conditions" while playing as Samus), that isn't very likely...
Post by: Smoke39 on June 15, 2007, 10:57:07 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 17, 2007, 11:10:12 PM
Post by: Shecky on June 18, 2007, 02:29:19 AM
Makes sense to me...
So from that I'm guessing:
Link: Power hitter, has a focused attack that does damage and sends you flying with little to save you.
Mario: Balanced hitter, has a more sweeping attack that does a good amount of damage and causes each player to careen a bit
Kirby: Speed hitter, has a attack that may do a good amount of damage to a large area but doesn't send you flying much at all.
Just a thought and nothing more than speculation.
Post by: Ceric on June 18, 2007, 04:39:21 AM
Though now we have an answer on the question whether Link or the Triforce was doing the damage.
Post by: nickmitch on June 18, 2007, 07:07:25 AM
As for Kirby's final smash, he should regain %. In Kirby Superstar, the cook power turned your enemies in to food, so it makes sense. But there's still the question of how much damage it will do to your opponents, and how many will be damaged.
Post by: Arbok on June 18, 2007, 07:57:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
With Zleda/Shiek at least you could switch back at will, but if some of the forum contributer's theories are correct, then mid-way through battle Samus uses the Final Smash item, and now she's essentially a different character for the rest of the battle?
Thought: perhaps don't use her Final Smash then if you don't want to change playstyles?
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 18, 2007, 10:55:43 AM
As Zero Suit Samus her Final Smash charges herself back up to become armored Samus. And As Samus it is the big blast.
Or another thought is we are all wrong and it is simply a switch like Zelda and Shiek transformation. It would help Samus to be able to switch to a fast nimble close range fighter with little to no range attacks when the situation calls for it...and then switch back when she needs to an armored range fighter.
Post by: anubis6789 on June 18, 2007, 11:26:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Perhaps another Thought. Samus can have two actual final Smashes.
As Zero Suit Samus her Final Smash charges herself back up to become armored Samus. And As Samus it is the big blast.
Or another thought is we are all wrong and it is simply a switch like Zelda and Shiek transformation. It would help Samus to be able to switch to a fast nimble close range fighter with little to no range attacks when the situation calls for it...and then switch back when she needs to an armored range fighter.
Perhaps ZSS's final smash is the Crystal Flash from Super Metroid, that would make sense for a move that reforms the Chozo Armor. If you don't know what I am talking about just look up Crystal Flash on youtube (I cannot remember if linking to a youtube video is against TOS).
Post by: MattVDB on June 18, 2007, 01:39:59 PM
For starters, why call her a "newcomer" if the character isn't going to be a new character? If it was just a modification to Samus, why give the distinction "newcomer". But I hear you say "on the old dojo site it said 'under certain conditions'". Yeah? So what? To me, it seems like that is more of a back story than gameplay detail.
Secondly, consider this (my biggest piece of evidence saying they are indeed two characters), ZSS has a pistol/whip. AKA, multiple playstyles already built in. Why would ZSS get not only two different fighting methods, but armored Samus's fight style as well? Sheesh. We need separation here folks.
For me personally, I thought it was cool that Zelda and Sheik could go back and forth, but I never used it. I always held 'A' before the match, and played as Sheik. I didn't like playing as either character though because I lost the opportunity to have a down A with both of them. I felt like I was missing a move, rather than being excited I had a different character/playstyle available. If they do this to Samus (a crowd favorite) I'm going to be seriously annoyed.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 18, 2007, 04:09:20 PM
What if you must unlock her. In that when playing single player mode you must defeat Samus in a certain means to get her to shed her suit, and become a newcomer you must defeat to unlock her.
Post by: Arbok on June 18, 2007, 05:31:41 PM
Honestly can't wait until they get to talking about Kirby's Final Smash...
Post by: anubis6789 on June 18, 2007, 05:47:48 PM
Quote
For starters, why call her a "newcomer" if the character isn't going to be a new character? If it was just a modification to Samus, why give the distinction "newcomer". But I hear you say "on the old dojo site it said 'under certain conditions'". Yeah? So what? To me, it seems like that is more of a back story than gameplay detail.
Keep in mind that on the Japanese SSBM site Zelda and Shiek were treated as different characters, maybe ZSS is being treated the same way, because being treated as a separate character would make her a newcomer. Regarding the old Dojo site having that "under certain conditions" remark, if I remember correctly (does anybody have the original text somewhere?) it was a pretty clear hint at ZSS being a transformation of Samus, not just some piece of back story. Combining that remark with the fact that the first trailer clearly shows her going from Armored Samus to ZSS, gives me the strong impression that Samus now has a transformation (because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...).
Quote
Secondly, consider this (my biggest piece of evidence saying they are indeed two characters), ZSS has a pistol/whip. AKA, multiple playstyles already built in. Why would ZSS get not only two different fighting methods, but armored Samus's fight style as well? Sheesh. We need separation here folks.
Just because she is equipped with a multi-function weapons does not mean that she has two move sets, that would be like saying Link will have four move sets (Sword, Boomerang, Bomb, and Bow) or, more aptly, that Pit has up to three with his variable use bow (Bow, duel blades, and as one picture shows: the blades combined as the bow but with the blades facing different directions). In fact we have only seen the whip once and that is all, for all we know it could just be like Shiek's chain or part of a combo special attack like Marth's forward B. Even if it were to be used in her A button attacks it is not like the gun could not change forms speedily. The only thing that even remotely gives the impression that two move sets exist is the part in the second trailer where Samus is fiddling with the gun; changing it between modes, but for all we know that could just be an idling animation or appeal/taunt.
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For me personally, I thought it was cool that Zelda and Sheik could go back and forth, but I never used it. I always held 'A' before the match, and played as Sheik. I didn't like playing as either character though because I lost the opportunity to have a down A with both of them. I felt like I was missing a move, rather than being excited I had a different character/playstyle available. If they do this to Samus (a crowd favorite) I'm going to be seriously annoyed.
One could say that even though Zelda and Shiek did each loose a down+B, as a combined character they actually got six distinct moves (seven if you count the transformation as a move) which is two more than any other character, not to mention the entirely new set of A moves. Just because you don't like to transform does not mean that others did not take full advantage of, and enjoy using, the larger move set. This is only problematic if Samus does in fact lose one of her moves to have a transformation (if she does indeed transform), but like it has been discussed before though the transformation could come from the use of the SSA (this method though could become problematic if the current theory of the SSA item only coming around once a match is true). The transformation could be done by pressing both A and B together, or B and guard together, or some other method that we have not even thought of all of which would allow her to keep all her current moves. As a Samus player, I would love to have a transformation as part of her arsenal, but that is just me.
In closing I would just like to say that we (unless someone here is privy to information that no one else is)really do not know for sure either way if she is a transformation character or not, and we probably wont know until a ZSS update occurs, and even then it might not tell us what we want to know (if a ZSS update does occur and it says nothing about transformation though I would concede that they are probably separate, but even then there would still be a chance they could be holding that info till later). Which ever happens though, I actualy think that it would be better to assume that they are separate, and being surprised when they are, then to assume ZSS is a transformation and be bummed out (at least I would be) when it turns out she is not.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 18, 2007, 08:24:39 PM
Hunt them! Hunt them down!
Post by: Strell on June 18, 2007, 08:50:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Hunt them! Hunt them down!
I'm thinking Sakurai is hilarious to be around. The quotes all over the site are great.
Post by: Shecky on June 19, 2007, 12:30:39 AM
Considering the move caries recoil in the games and their hints on the site... Pikachu probably suffers from a daze/exhastion after using it. Hence it it runs out (aka cancelled) over a pit well.... bon voyage
Post by: Shecky on June 19, 2007, 12:44:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Combining that remark with the fact that the first trailer clearly shows her going from Armored Samus to ZSS, gives me the strong impression that Samus now has a transformation (because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...).
So where is Zelda's harp from the first trailer for SSBM? I think the trailer was just part of show and isn't gameplay, so why associate them?
Clearly both arguments are user speculation untill they spell it out... and even then it could be spelled out to intentionally mislead (to keep you guessing all the way to November of 2008, bwahaha).
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 19, 2007, 12:56:10 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 19, 2007, 01:02:42 AM
It's ok to speculate, but don't go pointing to those movies as facts to try and discredit other speculation
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 19, 2007, 02:57:13 AM
Pikachu has a pretty awesome final Smash, and information leads us to speculate what they mean by canceling the attack.
Most likely it means that you can manually cancel Pikachu's attack in the middle, but perhaps you lose the ability to jump again until you hit the ground. The move sounds quite powerful, but also quite dangerous because of its speed.
I do wonder if there is perhaps other ways to cancel Final Smash's now. Can you throw an object and hit Pikachu to stop it? Or sneak behind Mario during the attack and Smash him? This is an important question because it goes to the very balance of Final Smashes and can be great information nugget in this entry.
With the Samus transformation. I really like the idea of the final smash triggering the transformation. It is kinda a cool sacrifice for the use of a probably very powerful attack. And I love the idea of Zero Suit Samus using that Crystal Flash to regain her suit. It could hurt people that touch it.
Speaking of changing Samus up some. I would love for Samus to get an upgrade on her bombs...to where they are sorta like mini power bombs, with a bigger area blast than her smaller bombs, but nothing like real powe bombs.
Post by: Ceric on June 19, 2007, 04:19:11 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2007, 07:05:09 AM
I don't mean to be a downer here, but all I really care about is new characters and I don't think they're going to reveal those with these mini-updates.
I basically burned myself out on anticipation for Melee and that didn't help me in the long run at all.
Don't get me wrong, it's GOOD that Sakurai's doing this, but for me, this is a small disappointment every day that a new character had the chance to be announced but wasn't.
I'll just wait for Pap to call me at 3AM some morning to tell me that we've finally seen some REAL news out of one of these.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 19, 2007, 07:14:00 AM
SB: What?
Me: The SSB site! They updated on something incredible!
SB: REALLY? What is it man? TELL ME!!
Me: They finally made an update on...
SB: Yes????
Me: ....Wario's ass. The entry was double length. They mention how they had a big staff of 3D modelers, texture artists and programmers working day and night just so they can get the mass and movement of his ass just right, especially when he performs his final smash. They went as far as to create a separate engine just for his ass! It's great!
SB: ...F*ck you, Pap
Post by: Ceric on June 19, 2007, 07:31:57 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 19, 2007, 07:33:40 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2007, 07:42:27 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 19, 2007, 11:04:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
With the Samus transformation. I really like the idea of the final smash triggering the transformation.
I don't. It seems to me like it would make ZSS into a just a curiosity that you rarely get to actually play as rather than a real new character.
Post by: mantidor on June 19, 2007, 11:27:49 AM
What will happen is Tingle, I have faith, with an awesome Koolo Limpah final smash of confetti death, if theres one game where something like that would make any sense is this one.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2007, 11:28:50 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 19, 2007, 01:03:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I still don't see how are they balancing things, mario smash seems awfully powerful compared to all the others.
It covers more area, but it probably does less damage. Sounds fair to me.
Post by: anubis6789 on June 19, 2007, 01:21:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Combining that remark with the fact that the first trailer clearly shows her going from Armored Samus to ZSS, gives me the strong impression that Samus now has a transformation (because if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...).
So where is Zelda's harp from the first trailer for SSBM? I think the trailer was just part of show and isn't gameplay, so why associate them?
Clearly both arguments are user speculation untill they spell it out... and even then it could be spelled out to intentionally mislead (to keep you guessing all the way to November of 2008, bwahaha).
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
yes, but the suit thing may have just been a clever segway to introduce a new character and not the condition... (aka people reading into it... claiming "facts"... etc)
It's ok to speculate, but don't go pointing to those movies as facts to try and discredit other speculation
First off, I would just like to say that the transformation in the trailer means nothing alone, but when combined (thus the reason I started that statement off with "Combining") with the statement that I remember being on the original Smash Dojo website, not to mention that Sakurai said something to the effect of ZSS being a transformation of Samus in an interview, which I cannot find/ to lazy to go find (take your pick), pretty much makes it a solid bet.
I would also like to add that it was said after the original trailer that Armored Samus was indeed still a playable character, yet she did not show up at all in the second trailer, nor was her portrait placed along side the rest of the confirmed characters at the end of the second trailer. To me this says they are the same character.
I would like to say that I never said that it was absolutely correct with my assumption that ZSS is a transformation. I would also like to say that I never meant to come off like I was trying to discredit MattVDB, and if I came as rude or obnoxious then I am sorry, but this is a discussion board and sharing ideas is part of discussion.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
With the Samus transformation. I really like the idea of the final smash triggering the transformation.
I don't. It seems to me like it would make ZSS into a just a curiosity that you rarely get to actually play as rather than a real new character.
She would not be a curiosity if they allow you to hold a button down before a match to start off as ZSS, kind of like what they did when you would want to start off as Shiek in SSBM.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 19, 2007, 03:13:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
She would not be a curiosity if they allow you to hold a button down before a match to start off as ZSS, kind of like what they did when you would want to start off as Shiek in SSBM.
That'd be okay. It'd let ZSS see some more action without copying Zelda/Shiek's distinguishing tranform anytime in the match characteristic or replacing Samus' bombs. Though in that case I don't see why they wouldn't just make them seperately selectable characters.
Post by: Ceric on June 19, 2007, 03:14:24 PM
Zero Suit Art: Detail
Zero Suit Art: Cute
Now I just need a picture of O-Suit Samus again and how do I get that in the game... :p
Post by: anubis6789 on June 19, 2007, 03:45:46 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 19, 2007, 04:04:12 PM
That says transformation to you?
Post by: Ceric on June 19, 2007, 04:07:21 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 19, 2007, 04:07:28 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 19, 2007, 04:38:36 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 19, 2007, 04:58:05 PM
Post by: Shecky on June 19, 2007, 05:24:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I would like to say that I never said that it was absolutely correct with my assumption that ZSS is a transformation. I would also like to say that I never meant to come off like I was trying to discredit MattVDB, and if I came as rude or obnoxious then I am sorry, but this is a discussion board and sharing ideas is part of discussion.
Well that wasn't particularly directed at any one person. More of just a general observation on how often times discussion on speculation can turn to "factual" arguments. With comments sometimes that litterally say "you wrong, it's got to be like this!". It might be in the end or it might not. The developers might even change how or when you can play as ZSS as the game's development continues.
Another example... if one of the special moves doesn't match up with a move that had been stated on the SSMB brawl website, I guarantee that there will be people who cry foul
Post by: Adrock on June 19, 2007, 05:33:19 PM
And speaking of Samus, I wish her charged beam was smaller and weaker. Making it faster to charge would balance that out. A charged shot was a bit too powerful in the first 2 games, it's fast, large and causes like 25% damage which could easily KO most characters at around 100% damage. Samus already has several finishers. Also, her missile should be weaker and faster. I never understood why she strikes a pose before firing one. Homing missiles were also pretty lame.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 19, 2007, 07:57:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Not alone, but when combined with the statement "This isn't a pure character addition" it does.
Both of those combined make it much easier to think that it means she transforms when she does her Final Smash.
Post by: anubis6789 on June 19, 2007, 08:05:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Not alone, but when combined with the statement "This isn't a pure character addition" it does.
Both of those combined make it much easier to think that it means she transforms when she does her Final Smash.
That is what I am saying.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 20, 2007, 12:24:35 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 20, 2007, 01:31:55 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 20, 2007, 02:31:41 AM
But what a great update with screens that are easily the most crazy we have seen yet.
Wario is simply going to be a joy to play as. My favorite shot is him trying to eat Kirby. Please let that be his Smash Attack...it is outrageously funny.
Post by: mantidor on June 20, 2007, 03:02:58 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 20, 2007, 04:16:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
Motion to start Birthday Suit Samus petition.
O Suit Samus... Cap has a pic if memory serves.
Quote
I hope Samus and Zero Suit Samus are completely separate selectable characters. If Final Smash triggers the transformation, I don't want to be minus 1 character whenever I choose to turn items off. She becomes more of a novelty addition at that point.
And speaking of Samus, I wish her charged beam was smaller and weaker. Making it faster to charge would balance that out. A charged shot was a bit too powerful in the first 2 games, it's fast, large and causes like 25% damage which could easily KO most characters at around 100% damage. Samus already has several finishers. Also, her missile should be weaker and faster. I never understood why she strikes a pose before firing one. Homing missiles were also pretty lame.
I always thought the opposite. For the time it takes to do a full charge, I'm glad you can hold a charge just because of that, I always thought it was a little slow and underpowered. Now on the missile they are underpowerred but I wouldn't want them to be able to be shot any faster because then you could spam weak homing missiles whenever anyone went off the side and they probably couldn't recover.
Post by: Caliban on June 20, 2007, 04:52:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wario is simply going to be a joy to play as. My favorite shot is him trying to eat Kirby. Please let that be his Smash Attack...it is outrageously funny.
QFT!
Post by: vudu on June 20, 2007, 07:06:54 AM
QuoteSounds fair if you're playing a 4-player match. If it's 1-on-1 then the extra area damage is worthless and Mario would be at a disadvantage if the attack is weaker than others.
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I still don't see how are they balancing things, mario smash seems awfully powerful compared to all the others.
It covers more area, but it probably does less damage. Sounds fair to me.
Post by: LuigiHann on June 20, 2007, 08:51:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteSounds fair if you're playing a 4-player match. If it's 1-on-1 then the extra area damage is worthless and Mario would be at a disadvantage if the attack is weaker than others.
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: mantidor
I still don't see how are they balancing things, mario smash seems awfully powerful compared to all the others.
It covers more area, but it probably does less damage. Sounds fair to me.
Even in a 1-on-1 match, the wider area means he has a better chance of hitting his opponent.
Again, this is all hypothetical. I'm assuming it's possible to somehow "miss" with an attack like Link's final smash.
Post by: Zach on June 20, 2007, 04:45:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wario is simply going to be a joy to play as. My favorite shot is him trying to eat Kirby. Please let that be his Smash Attack...it is outrageously funny.
lol, its called karma for all of the years of kirby annoyingly eating everybody else. Now we just need a shot of Wario eating yoshi.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 20, 2007, 04:52:50 PM
Quote
It’s rumored that this unpredictable character will give birth to a form of martial arts that other characters cannot even see.
In other words, silent, but deadly...
I just got that's what they are implying.
Post by: nickmitch on June 20, 2007, 06:59:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
The final smash for Wario will be the nuke fart.
Wasn't it called the Wario Waft?
Post by: Darkheart on June 21, 2007, 12:28:58 AM
Mario: Hey fox how much damage did you just land on Pikachu
Fox: ITS OVER 9000~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Post by: Strell on June 21, 2007, 02:14:49 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 21, 2007, 03:07:46 AM
You know I think I know what Star Fox's Final Smash will be. Probably a fly by Air Strike from his team...or even them dropping a bomb on the level. That would be quite cool.
Yeah that fart is called the Wario Waft...and it will definitely be fun to use...if not slightly disturbing...in a good way.
I wonder if one of Wario's special moves will be a short ranged invisible projectile being expelled from his buttocks? What will his other moves be? Probably a charging attack, since that is one of his few moves he had in his games, but then what else?
Post by: Ceric on June 21, 2007, 04:13:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: darkheart
So today's update is fox's blaster and reflector moves fun fun . . . however fox's eye piece reminds me of something. . .
Editted out for space savings.
Mario: Hey fox how much damage did you just land on Pikachu
Fox: ITS OVER 9000~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
lol
"Marios power went off the Charts."*crack*
I sort of want to see a closeup of fox in action because methinks the reflector is its own object because it seems to come up when he is reflecting. What would really be cool is if it dangled on his belt and could actually see it swing around making a little clinking noise when he moves.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 21, 2007, 06:15:33 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 21, 2007, 04:25:35 PM
Clockwise from the upper left:
Mario:
1) B: Fireball
2) Down-A: Sweep Kick
3) A: Attack
4) In-Air Forward-A
Link:
1) L/R Smash
2) Recovering from a roll
3) B: Arrow
4) A: Attack
Kirby:
1) ?? A: Attack
2) Up-B: Final Cutter
3) L/R-B: Hammer
4) Running-A: Running Kicks
Pikachu:
1) Idle animation
2) Crouched
3) B: Discharge
4) Controlled Fall
Fox:
1) Up-B: (His "he-ya" flaming recovery move)
2) ?? A: Attack
3) Crouched
4) L/R B: Dashing Attack
Samus:
1) B: Charge Beam
2) In-Air Forward-A: Arcing fire attack
3) L/R-B: Missile
4) Edge Recovery (via grapple beam)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 21, 2007, 08:25:41 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 21, 2007, 08:49:13 PM
Quote
How are they breathing? And why is there gravity? I suggest that you not worry about it too much.
lawlz
Post by: Kairon on June 21, 2007, 08:52:12 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2007, 01:15:47 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 22, 2007, 01:35:08 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2007, 02:22:39 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2007, 04:37:36 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2007, 06:06:29 AM
But all these new levels shown so far, are quite unique, and add some great positioning options, and an enviroment you will want to play in over and over again, as they are literally moving works of art with a story to them.
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2007, 08:24:21 AM
Is it just me or are all the stages shown so far really caustrophic. There all just so tiny. About the size of Final Destination.
(After Reading)
I really enjoy the detail that the levels have, especially this one. They I hope you get to fight the length of the ship a variation as well.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 22, 2007, 09:30:54 AM
remember the classic Mario stage in the sky about Peach's Castle in the first SSB? THAT'S WHAT WE NEED
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 22, 2007, 09:58:58 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 22, 2007, 10:29:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
this stage is utterly boring. 3 platforms, a floor, and an animated background.
remember the classic Mario stage in the sky about Peach's Castle in the first SSB? THAT'S WHAT WE NEED
With the crooked bridge and sliding platform?
Each stage has it's thing... this likely has the arwing cross fire and the platforms may even adjust on the ship given they seem to be part of the wings.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2007, 11:02:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
(Have not read everyone comments today yet)
Is it just me or are all the stages shown so far really caustrophic. There all just so tiny. About the size of Final Destination.
(After Reading)
I really enjoy the detail that the levels have, especially this one. They I hope you get to fight the length of the ship a variation as well.
Well you have to remember we've only seen about 12 known stages so far. Melee had 26 all new stages, and so even if Brawl was to have the same amount of stages as Melee, we still haven't seen half of them. And then when you realize that Brawl is obviously going to have more many more stages then Melee, there's still going to be many more unique stages with a wide variety of designs.
I'm going to guess and say Brawl is probably going to have at least 40 brand new stages. Because if most of the character franchises were represented with two stages in Melee, then they'll all at least have two stages in Brawl. And right now for completely new franchise characters we've seen Pit has two stages, Wario is being counted as his own series so he'll have two stages and this time the Fire Emblem characters will have two stages as well. Not to mention any new Nintendo series that might get added last minute will have at least one or two stages given to them. Then there's the fact that Snake is getting his own stages which we've already seen some of, which means the other two third party characters will get their own stage as well. Of course I'm sure the third parties will only get one stage.
Plus I get the feeling that the really popular series like Mario and Zelda might be given three or maybe four stages this time around, so when every thing is added up, it easily equals around 40 stages if not more so we still have a long way to go.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2007, 11:15:38 AM
What? Just one so far...
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2007, 01:09:05 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 22, 2007, 02:04:12 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2007, 05:13:24 PM
If you actually count the levels from Melee most series only got one level per character. The Mario series had 4 characters and yet only had 4 levels.
Fire Emblem had 2 characters, and no level based on it.
Pokemon had 4 characters and only 2 levels based on it.
Zelda had 3 characters but only had 1 level.
Ice Climbers 1 level.
Post by: nickmitch on June 22, 2007, 05:22:28 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 22, 2007, 05:31:45 PM
Post by: Khushrenada on June 22, 2007, 06:49:33 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 22, 2007, 07:11:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I thought that stage with the statues was another (or part of the one) Fire Emblem stage.
Yep, I'm fairly sure it's a Fire Emblem stage...
Post by: IceCold on June 22, 2007, 07:47:04 PM
QuoteMakes me want to listen to Fountain of Dreams now..
Plus, Kirby music seems to be the best when converted to symphony sound.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2007, 09:37:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wario will only have one stage based on his character...if that. Whatever Wario's level is will be extremely wacky though.
If you actually count the levels from Melee most series only got one level per character. The Mario series had 4 characters and yet only had 4 levels.
Fire Emblem had 2 characters, and no level based on it.
Pokemon had 4 characters and only 2 levels based on it.
Zelda had 3 characters but only had 1 level.
Ice Climbers 1 level.
Which is why I said each franchise instead of character. In Melee each franchise was given 2 stages and Wario is being counted as a different franchise which is why his icon on his page is a W instead of a Mushroom like Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser have. Which is why Wario will have two stages for him, one will be based of Wario Ware of course but the other will probably be based off one of the Wario Land games.
Here's the brackdown of all the franchises and their stages in Melee
Super Mario Bros - Princess Peach's Castle, Rainbow Cruise, Mushroom Kingdom, Mushroom Kingdom 2
Yoshi - Yoshi's Story, Yoshi's Island
Donkey Kong - Kongo Jungle, Jungle Japes
Legend of Zelda - Great Bay, Hyrule Temple
Pokemon - Pokemon Stadium, Poke Floats
Kirby - Fountain of Dreams, Green Greens
Star Fox - Corneria, Venom
Metroid - Brinstar, Brinstar Depths
F-Zero - Mute City, Big Blue
Earthbound (Mother) - Onett, Eagleland
Ice Climbers - Icicle Mountain
Game and Watch - Flat Zone
Smash Bros - Battlefield, Final Destination
Classic N64 Stages - Kongo Jungle, Yoshi's Island, Dream Land
As you can see, the average was two per franchise except in the case of Ice Climbers and Game and Watch who only got one and Super Mario Bros which got four. This means each franchise in Brawl will at least have 2 as well but since it's a sequel chances are some will have more. I'm guessing that Zelda and Pokemon will have four this time and Kirby, Star Fox and Metroid will have three.
Here's a list of all the stages we've seen so far for Brawl.
Mario - Delfino Plaza, Mario Kart
Yoshi - Yoshi's Island
Pokemon - Pokemon Stadium
Kirby - Halberd
Star Fox - Lylat Cruise
Fire Emblem - Outside of a Castle under attack, a Throne Room
Kid Icarus - An Ancient Greece stage, an underground stage with Greek statues
Metal Gear - Alaska base from the first Metal Gear Solid
Smash Bros - Battlefield
Post by: Ceric on June 23, 2007, 12:58:27 AM
While looking for that new trailer that had some of that stuff you guys mentioned I found this: Smash Trailer Retro It makes me sort of want a mode like that in the game.
Post by: LuigiHann on June 23, 2007, 07:31:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
this stage is utterly boring. 3 platforms, a floor, and an animated background.
remember the classic Mario stage in the sky about Peach's Castle in the first SSB? THAT'S WHAT WE NEED
I agree. I liked the level design in the first game better than the second game, because there were real, clever gameplay differences between the stages.
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 24, 2007, 08:04:51 PM
IT'S PRINCESS ZELDA!!!!
Ok, all bets are now off, I guess we wont have to wait until E3 to get huge info.
Post by: Adrock on June 24, 2007, 08:09:34 PM
She doesn't seem to have her sword from Twilight Princess which sucks, but I wonder what Sheik will look like now. Hmm.... They could split them into separate characters. I used Zelda a lot in Melee so it would change my playing style significantly. I wouldn't mind, if say, Zelda's new Down+B unsheathed her sword. My guess though is that she probably changed very little from Melee.
Post by: anubis6789 on June 24, 2007, 09:28:37 PM
In all probability though I think that The first two possibilities are for more likely than the last two. I hope that If they do separate Zelda and Sheik, they will make ZSS a transformation of Samus, so that at least one character will carry the transformation ability, because I do not want all the characters to play the same as one another. When every character in a fighting game has roughly the same play style you end up with a bunch of ninjas, shotos and jacks, and no variety makes the game less interesting in my opinion. I would prefer that both Samus and Zelda have transformations that are each done in an entirely different manner, and that the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game And Watch, Ness, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and to a lesser extent Pichu to still be in the roster, even though many people want them out, just to keep those different play styles alive in SSBB.
Regardless of Sheik's fate, I would love to see a Twilight Princess version of Sheik.
Another thing I just thought of: What if they give Sheik's move set to Humanoid Midna? It could work, even as, keep an open mind here, a transformation of Zelda.
Well that is all I have to say about the update right now, and just to clear up anything you may assume about me from my comment of who I would like to see in the roster, I am not a huge fan of Pokemon, I just feel that those characters have very different styles than most of the other fighters in the series. Now I feel, with my comment regarding my opinion on Pokemon, that I just come off as an insecure man who is trying to assert my masculinity, to which I say that I have played and liked the Pokemon games, they just are not my favorite (there, I think I fixed that...).
Post by: tiamat1990 on June 24, 2007, 11:55:49 PM
I really hope they include another Fire Emblem character.
Post by: Pale on June 25, 2007, 12:53:59 AM
Could it be tied to the final smash? The original trailer had Samus transforming right after the final smash happened. I don't really think so because it would make their smashes significantly different...
I dunno, It's going to be a toss-up between Pit and Zelda for my first ever character played.
Post by: ShyGuy on June 25, 2007, 01:36:35 AM
Post by: Mario on June 25, 2007, 01:40:24 AM
Tingle is far more likely.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 25, 2007, 01:50:18 AM
Post by: Caliban on June 25, 2007, 01:57:49 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 25, 2007, 02:18:59 AM
It has been noted that Shiek and Zelda are sometimes referred to as two seperate fighters in the game.
I love character model of this Zelda, and it makes me hope Shiek is in the game more, because I really want to see the character model they create for her.
As for the stages. Melee still did not have two stages (nor one really) for Fire Emblem.
I just think you are assuming much from a very small amount of information. We don't even know if those Castle stages are truly from Fire Emblem...we are just assuming.
Post by: Mario on June 25, 2007, 02:24:43 AM
Quote
Why do you assume Shiek isn't a part of Zelda like normal.
Because its TP Zelda. She has nothing to do with Sheik.
Post by: Pale on June 25, 2007, 02:33:48 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on June 25, 2007, 03:16:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
As for the stages. Melee still did not have two stages (nor one really) for Fire Emblem.
I just think you are assuming much from a very small amount of information. We don't even know if those Castle stages are truly from Fire Emblem...we are just assuming.
Even I don't know if that Castle is a Fire Emblem stage. I can't see the flag. It IS possible that it's FE, since Zelda isn't exactly known for wars and castles under siege. Then again, maybe they just felt like making something more epic for Zelda. Who knows.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 25, 2007, 05:40:33 AM
It looks very much like traditional designed Zelda...just with more detail.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 25, 2007, 05:57:05 AM
I still expect the NEW characters to be unveiled through trailers and gameplay footage, but at least we know they don't have to wait to reveal returning characters.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 25, 2007, 07:23:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I guess they are using the Twilight Princess design for Zelda, but nothing about that design screams NO Shiek.
It looks very much like traditional designed Zelda...just with more detail.
It's possible that Sheik could be a separate character this time around...
Post by: Pittbboi on June 25, 2007, 07:51:09 AM
), built to compliment each other's strengths and weaknesses. And, from the looks of the screen shots, it seems as though Zelda's moveset is relatively unchanged from Melee. If that's the case it wouldn't make sense to not have her Sheik transformation--having Sheik's moves is part of her moveset.Anyway, this is a happy update.
For a minute I was getting worried that Zelda (my Brawler of choice) wouldn't even be in the game...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 25, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 25, 2007, 09:40:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
As for the stages. Melee still did not have two stages (nor one really) for Fire Emblem.
I just think you are assuming much from a very small amount of information. We don't even know if those Castle stages are truly from Fire Emblem...we are just assuming.
Actually in Melee Fire Emblem did have one stage, it just never got finished because of time constraints. On the stage list for the debug menu one of the stages says AKANEIA, which is Marth's kingdom from his Fire Emblems. But when you click on it the game freezes because there's nothing there. But it means that they were going to make a stage for Fire Emblem but didn't have time to make one.
So if Melee was suppose to originally have a Fire Emblem stage then Brawl for sure will have a Fire Emblem stage.
Post by: Louieturkey on June 25, 2007, 01:41:24 PM
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 25, 2007, 02:49:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I would prefer that both Samus and Zelda have transformations that are each done in an entirely different manner, and that the Ice Climbers, Mr. Game And Watch, Ness, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and to a lesser extent Pichu to still be in the roster, even though many people want them out, just to keep those different play styles alive in SSBB.
I haven't heard anyone suggest Ness would be out. That would be horrible his up-b recovery is surely the coolest attack in the game.
Post by: Arbok on June 25, 2007, 03:24:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: blackfootsteps
I haven't heard anyone suggest Ness would be out. That would be horrible his up-b recovery is surely the coolest attack in the game.
Hasn't it been said anyway that all of the original Smash Bros characters (i.e. N64) would be back? I could've sworn that was stated at one time.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 25, 2007, 03:41:23 PM
Now people assume that Ice Climbers, Nes, and others won't be there...but there is no facts to back that up.
Post by: nickmitch on June 25, 2007, 04:07:05 PM
And wasn't that reovery move down-b?
Post by: Smoke39 on June 25, 2007, 04:22:29 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2007, 04:27:16 PM
Post by: Caliban on June 25, 2007, 04:48:01 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 25, 2007, 04:49:14 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 25, 2007, 08:08:48 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 25, 2007, 08:11:23 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 25, 2007, 08:34:30 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 25, 2007, 08:36:27 PM
ITS...SO...BEAUTIFUL!!!
Post by: Zach on June 25, 2007, 08:40:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Ness better be in there. >:|
And wasn't that reovery move down-b?
The recovery move refers to the move a character uses to get back onto the stage, which is always up-B. I can understand the confusion though, Ness' down-B move could be considered recovery, since it does recover health.
Post by: Mario on June 25, 2007, 08:49:32 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 25, 2007, 09:09:50 PM
Composers of the music in Brawl so far
Smash Bros Melee's Menu 1 theme was composed by Motoi Sakuraba of Golden Sun/Mario Golf & Tennis fame
Yoshi's Story Ending theme was composed by Masafumi Takada of killer7 / GOD HAND fame
Metroids Ridley Fight theme was composed by Yusuke Takahama of Digital Pinball fame
Ocarina of Time Medley was composed by Michiko Naruke of Wild Arms fame
Wow this should be exciting to see who's going to be composing what in the future since it seems like it'll be the people we least expect.
Oh and one last thing I've notice is if this music is all from Ocarina of Time, does this point to Sheik still being in the game? Since Link, Zelda, and I'd assume Ganondorf are based off of their Twilight Princess counterparts, if Sheiks in the game she'd be the only Ocarina of Time character. Of course does this also mean Sheik is now separate from Zelda and will be her own character as well, with her own Ocarina of Time stage?
We'll this is a rather tricky question which I have no idea really. Is Sakurai giving us a hint of things to come, or is this just a red herring that I'm looking too deep into.
Post by: Mashiro on June 25, 2007, 09:09:51 PM
What a beautiful and upbeat rendition/remix of the classic OoT music. The sheer production value and polish of this game has me drooling I can't freaking wait for this to come out.
Bravo to everyone working on this game it's going to be a masterpiece.
Edit: Though the Metroid music sample is still my favorite, that remains one of my all time favorite game tracks and I love how the remixed it =D.
Post by: tiamat1990 on June 25, 2007, 09:25:50 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 26, 2007, 01:49:42 AM
I thought that Ocarina of Time arrangement was pretty weak for quite a few reasons:
1). I'm not a synth whore, but the low quality MIDI samples in this piece really causes it to stand out when compared the high quality samples of the previous three song samples.
2). I was expecting something a bit more epic - how about a boss battle theme medley or a few of the major heavy hitters from the score? If I want an Ocarina medley, I can just throw in Hyrule Symphony.
3). "Ocarina [Song of Storms]" was a bit off in two key places.
I'm mainly disappointed by with reason #2, but I'll get over. Plus, they really need to polish up that synth, maybe throw an orchestra behind it - which would definitely redeem it.
*sigh* I really wanted to hear what Sakuraba, Tsujiyoko, Shimomura, or Mitsuda would've done with Kondo's masterpieces. Hopefully one of 'em will still get the chance.
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2007, 01:52:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
All I want is to not see Daisy as a playable character, that's all I want mwuahahahahahahahahaha...ha.
And that was the last we heard from the true Caliban. Welcome Caliban Drone.
Music needs more Tuba...
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2007, 02:06:42 AM
As for mentioning Shiek and Zelda. Again, I say this simply...the Princess Zelda model is based on the Twilight Princess model, because it is the most detailed and last version of Zelda we got. But even then, it isn't Zelda in her cloak hiding. It is Zelda in a redesigned wardrobe that she has worn in almost every single Zelda game.
Zelda is even described as having the same weakness and strengths she had from Melee, which probably means Shiek is there to balance her out. I no doubt Shiek is in the game. I am 100% confident that She will be tied as a part of Zelda again.
And I am 100% this game will have the greatest soundtrack of any game created.
Kenology: You do realize that the sample was not the entire composition, and an epic boss Meledy may actually still be a part of it don't you? We are only getting very short samples of the music which are probably 3-4 minutes long.
Post by: blackfootsteps on June 26, 2007, 02:31:40 AM
In between the Song of Storms and Song of Time Epona's song gets a guernsey, unless I'm hearing things.
Post by: Darkheart on June 26, 2007, 02:36:30 AM
Post by: mantidor on June 26, 2007, 02:54:55 AM
Post by: Caliban on June 26, 2007, 03:22:46 AM
Post by: Pale on June 26, 2007, 03:39:06 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on June 26, 2007, 04:36:28 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2007, 04:45:12 AM
It also goes to show why you shouldn't take everything stated previously as gospel. For instance, the idea that online Brawl play is going to be limited or nonexistent. We don't know how true that is...and there is a possibility that Nintendo has worked around that.
Or the idea that there will be only 1-2 other 3rd party characters in Brawl because the character list is set. That could have changed as well. We will never know until the game is out.
That is why I am trying not to assume anything until we have official word...and even that can be taken with a grain of salt until the game is out.
Post by: Deguello on June 26, 2007, 04:51:58 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 26, 2007, 05:03:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think it was assumed that it would be completely orchestrated after listening to the first trailer music created. But the reality is that bringing an Orchestra to Japan to create all the music in the game is expensive, very expensive and time consuming. It was probably much cheaper for Nintendo to go to all these famous Japanese gaming composers to put their spin on classic Nintendo arrangements instead of getting a full orchestra.
You don't think they have orchestras in Japan? I'm pretty sure they have more than J-pop and shamisens over there.
I love the composition, but I'm disappointed in the quality of the instruments, too, and I hope it's a work in progress. There's no reason to assume it's not, as far away as the game's release is.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2007, 05:50:41 AM
Now you add to the fact that you still have to create a composition for the orchestra to play, meaning hiring a good composer then have that orchestra play around 12-20 musical numbers recorded for a game and it is quite expensive.
Post by: mantidor on June 26, 2007, 05:57:09 AM
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2007, 06:13:46 AM
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
As for mentioning Shiek and Zelda. Again, I say this simply...the Princess Zelda model is based on the Twilight Princess model, because it is the most detailed and last version of Zelda we got. But even then, it isn't Zelda in her cloak hiding. It is Zelda in a redesigned wardrobe that she has worn in almost every single Zelda game.
The Smash series basically throws canon right out the window. That said, I don't think it really matters if Twilight Princess Zelda transforms into Sheik (And I'd love for Zelda's alt costume to be her cloak). However, because I like the art direction of TP, if Zelda does transform into Shiek in this game, I'd like to see Sheik redesigned.
Quote
Zelda is even described as having the same weakness and strengths she had from Melee, which probably means Shiek is there to balance her out. I no doubt Shiek is in the game. I am 100% confident that She will be tied as a part of Zelda again.
Probably though I wouldn't mind if they were separated. Sheik didn't really balance Zelda, she was more of a substitute. Zelda was a great character... except against insanely fast characters like Fox and Marth. To balance Zelda out, her magic would have to be more useful. Din's Fire was too slow, too hard to hit, and only stuns for a second or 2 (which is almost always not long enough). Nayru's Love was so weak especially compared to Fox's reflector. Farore's Wind was okay (it'll take too long to explain how the cons slightly outweigh the pros). Giving her the sword would also help by giving her longer reach and faster attacks.
Post by: mantidor on June 26, 2007, 06:58:22 AM
What if her alter-ego is not sheik but her in her twilight robe? maybe she was dressed up like sheik behind that, I don't know, Smash Bros is rarely consistent so I think is very possible they end up with something like that.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 26, 2007, 07:06:40 AM
Post by: Pittbboi on June 26, 2007, 07:12:36 AM
Ahem...*opens Can-O-Worms*
Quote
if Sheiks in the game he'd be the only Ocarina of Time character.
Fixed.
Anyway, yeah, I hope this means Sheik is still in the game. It is a pretty good indication. I don't think it means that Sheik is going to be a separate character though. There really wouldn't be enough there to make a Sheik themed level. If anything this song will probably be for a Zelda montage stage, or maybe the victory tune for someone...
Quote
o balance Zelda out, her magic would have to be more useful. Din's Fire was too slow, too hard to hit, and only stuns for a second or 2 (which is almost always not long enough). Nayru's Love was so weak especially compared to Fox's reflector.
BLASPHEMY
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 26, 2007, 07:22:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think it was assumed that it would be completely orchestrated after listening to the first trailer music created. But the reality is that bringing an Orchestra to Japan to create all the music in the game is expensive, very expensive and time consuming. It was probably much cheaper for Nintendo to go to all these famous Japanese gaming composers to put their spin on classic Nintendo arrangements instead of getting a full orchestra.
It also goes to show why you shouldn't take everything stated previously as gospel. For instance, the idea that online Brawl play is going to be limited or nonexistent. We don't know how true that is...and there is a possibility that Nintendo has worked around that.
Or the idea that there will be only 1-2 other 3rd party characters in Brawl because the character list is set. That could have changed as well. We will never know until the game is out.
That is why I am trying not to assume anything until we have official word...and even that can be taken with a grain of salt until the game is out.
You forgot to mention that when Brawl was announced Sakurai made a big deal about how the game will be using the GC controller and how he believed that while the Wiimote was a neat controller he felt that Brawl was not the right game to use it. Now the game will feature 4 control options, one of them being just the Wiimote.
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2007, 07:39:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Zelda should transform into an Octorok.
A blue Octorok at that so she'll be tougher...
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 26, 2007, 08:22:12 AM
Zelda = Shiek
Therefore...
Shiek = Female
Nowhere in the game did it say Shiek was ever a male...it was always left a mystery, we just thought she was a male because there was no breasts in the character design.
But, since we know the big reveal about who Shiek really is, that means She being Zelda is definitely female.
Post by: Pittbboi on June 26, 2007, 08:26:28 AM
Oh, and Sheik was referred to as male several times in the game.
(PS. Not trying to seriously argue this age-old topic. Just being an ass
)
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2007, 08:32:29 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 26, 2007, 09:00:11 AM
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2007, 09:02:29 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 26, 2007, 09:02:41 AM
And "HOLY CRAP!" at the new song...Best song update yet, and that's saying something!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 26, 2007, 10:02:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think it was assumed that it would be completely orchestrated after listening to the first trailer music created.
Actually, Sakurai posted that the entire game would be orchestrated on the music section of the old site.
Also, it can't possibly be that horrendously expensive to hire an orchestra when they did it to make the Nintendo Power bonus CD, which they gave out for free.
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2007, 10:04:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Worst observation skills ever.
They have a DS game in Japan that fixes that.
Post by: Arbok on June 26, 2007, 10:41:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
No they have orchestras. They are just expensive to hire. I remember reading an article that stated it is cheaper to higher and fly in an orchestra from another country than to use Japanese orchestras.
That's exactly right. It was cheaper for Toho to fly their composer out to Russia to score both Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S., on two seperate trips in two years, compared to how much it cost to orchestrate the scores in Japan.
The saddest part? The orchestra was also several times larger as well, and really the soundtracks for those two films were heads and shoulders above other recent efforts in that series on account of it.
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Dammit, it's Sheik, stop calling him Shiek...
Stop calling her a he... :-(
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2007, 11:02:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
No they have orchestras. They are just expensive to hire. I remember reading an article that stated it is cheaper to higher and fly in an orchestra from another country than to use Japanese orchestras.
That's exactly right. It was cheaper for Toho to fly their composer out to Russia to score both Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla and Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S., on two seperate trips in two years, compared to how much it cost to orchestrate the scores in Japan.
The saddest part? The orchestra was also several times larger as well, and really the soundtracks for those two films were heads and shoulders above other recent efforts in that series on account of it.
That's not sad, that's globalization.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 26, 2007, 12:37:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Dammit, it's Sheik, stop calling him Shiek...
Stop calling her a he... :-(
No, because Sheik, the character (as in, who Zelda is masquerading as), is a male...It's noted many times in OoT...
Post by: mantidor on June 26, 2007, 12:59:53 PM
Later when Nintendo gave FMV a chance in the intro of Melee it made quite clear Sheik was a male by detailing his (her?, it? :p) chest.
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2007, 01:07:50 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 01:31:15 PM
Regarding the new mix on the site, I could tell that it was done by someone who worked on the Wild Arms series, because of the somewhat prominent western (as in cowboy) motif, and I think it would be a crime not to have the Gerudo Valley Theme be part of it, and I do not care if it is not one of the tunes played on the ocarina.
Regarding Sheik's gender, I always figured that after Zelda reveled that she was in fact Sheik that it was pretty solid that Sheik was actually a Female. I did not think there was anything like a Ranma or Berg Katse thing going on. At most one could say that Sheik is supposed to be heavily androgynous, like the Statue of Liberty (everyone assumes it is a she but it is not), so that when playing OOT one would not be sure who was behind the mask. As for the use of "He" in the game script, it is convention in common english to use masculine pronouns in the case of an androgynous or genderless entity (person or animal). It is also part of human nature to usually assume that an entity that appears androgynous or genderless is in fact a member of one's own gender.
The more I think about it though the more I would like to see Human Midna take Sheik's place as Zelda's transformation, keeping all the same moves of course. I think that SSB is ready for a hot redhead.
Post by: that Baby guy on June 26, 2007, 01:37:12 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 26, 2007, 02:10:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But it was all an ILLYOOSHUN!!!
It doesn't matter...Zelda was pretending to be a guy, so Sheik is a guy...Zelda's gender has nothing to do with who she was pretending to be...
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 02:11:35 PM
I may be wrong about the Statue of Liberty's androgyny, but I think my point stands fine without such an example. This does call into question my memory though.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 26, 2007, 02:15:18 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 02:25:27 PM
I still think that Sheik's character was more androgynous than anything, but that is defiantly another way to look at it.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 26, 2007, 02:30:31 PM
edit: basically what anubis said.
Post by: Kenology on June 26, 2007, 02:34:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Kenology: You do realize that the sample was not the entire composition, and an epic boss Meledy may actually still be a part of it don't you? We are only getting very short samples of the music which are probably 3-4 minutes long.
WTF??
A better question would be:
Do YOU realize that I used the word "sample" at one time in the context which would denote that it was to mean 'a small part of something or one of a number, intended to show the quality, style, or nature of the whole' don't you? Nevermind, rhetorical question, you clearly didn't.
Secondly, if we assume that the track would 3 - 4 minutes long, I doubt that'd leave the appropriate amount of time to do a decent battle theme medley either.
Anyways, I maintain the piece sucks for the reasons I outlined two pages back. And judging it from exactly what's heard in the sample, it was an Ocarina Medley.
Post by: Mario on June 26, 2007, 03:20:23 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2007, 03:48:31 PM
Just for the fun this will cause.
(I hope they change Zelda's hair color to a lighter brown if the keep it that way. Because right now it looks like comes from a bottle.)
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 03:53:49 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 26, 2007, 03:58:31 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 26, 2007, 04:00:34 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 04:01:09 PM
Just messing with you man.
Post by: Pittbboi on June 26, 2007, 04:16:45 PM
Post by: stevey on June 26, 2007, 04:31:05 PM
Quote
Oh and one last thing I've notice is if this music is all from Ocarina of Time, does this point to Sheik still being in the game?
I dont think it does, nothing about it really sound like it a Sheik theme(Nocturne of Shadow, ect). But it pretty much scream a cow girl theme all over
*finger crossed* come on, please let Malon be in brawl please
Post by: ShyGuy on June 26, 2007, 04:33:29 PM
Post by: Caliban on June 26, 2007, 04:40:53 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 26, 2007, 04:40:55 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2007, 04:52:36 PM
Post by: Khushrenada on June 26, 2007, 05:15:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteMakes me want to listen to Fountain of Dreams now..
Plus, Kirby music seems to be the best when converted to symphony sound.
While that is probably one of my top 3 favorite tracks in the game, the best Kirby music I have heard orchestrated is a track from the Orchestral Game Concert series. Orchestral Game Concert #5 has a track based on Kirby Super Star. You can learn more about the music and cd's on the Wikipedia entry of them. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, they could just take that track and put it in the game. I'm not sure it can be topped. There are a few other good songs from these cd's that are top-notch.
Learning that much of the game may not be orchestrated is a real blow, especially when you hear how of some of these songs sound orchestrated. I know Funhouse Radio will play this song on occasion as well as a few others from these cd's. Although, if you want, you could ask me descreetly if there is another way to quickly find and listen to these songs. Like sending me a private message. No one talks to me.
On a different note,
And now it's time for......
Khushrenada's Favorite Edited Quote of the Day
Today's winner comes from this thread and blew all other competition out of the water. Congratulations Dirk Temporo!
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I dress up as a girl, and call myself Sue
So there you have it. I hope you enjoyed today's Edited Quote. I'm Khushrenada reminding you to help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed or neutered. Goodbye everybody!
Post by: Blue Plant on June 26, 2007, 05:22:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi those pecks are too well-defined (and sex-ay)
Post by: Shecky on June 26, 2007, 05:27:46 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 26, 2007, 06:37:15 PM
Post by: The Traveller on June 26, 2007, 08:26:00 PM
Post by: Dasmos on June 26, 2007, 08:30:28 PM
Post by: Arbok on June 26, 2007, 08:52:26 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 26, 2007, 09:43:32 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 26, 2007, 10:34:10 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 27, 2007, 01:52:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
Thankfully everyone else in the entire world disagrees with you. Dumbest reasons to hate a music piece ever.
Your hyperbole is appreciated, but some other people have expressed their disappointment with the arrangement. Even if the whole world did think it was great, wouldn't change my opinion of it sucking one bit! Try be less childish. Grow up and try be respectful of dissenting opinions.
If it bothers you that I think it sucks (which it clearly does), then I dunno what to tell you. That's on you. Man up and stop getting so emotional over such a wack piece of music!
Michiko Naruke needs to stick to Wild Arms and never be allowed to touch any of Kondo's masterpieces again.
So anyways, yeah. On with the Shiek/Zelda convo...
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2007, 01:56:13 AM
Post by: Mario on June 27, 2007, 01:56:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Thankfully everyone else in the entire world disagrees with you. Dumbest reasons to hate a music piece ever.
Your hyperbole is appreciated, but some other people have expressed their disappointment with the arrangement. Try be less childish. Grow up and try be respectful of dissenting opinions.
If it bothers you that I think it sucks, then I dunno what to tell you. That's on you. Stop getting so emotional over a weak piece of music!
Your opinion sucks
Post by: Kenology on June 27, 2007, 02:03:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Originally posted by: KenologyQuote
Originally posted by: Mario
Thankfully everyone else in the entire world disagrees with you. Dumbest reasons to hate a music piece ever.
Your hyperbole is appreciated, but some other people have expressed their disappointment with the arrangement. Try be less childish. Grow up and try be respectful of dissenting opinions.
If it bothers you that I think it sucks, then I dunno what to tell you. That's on you. Stop getting so emotional over a weak piece of music!
Your opinion sucks
Thanks. I edited since then, too...
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2007, 02:25:56 AM
Drop a Banana peel right by the edge and watch some helpless character trying to recover slip back down right as he safely lands. hehe
Brilliant.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 27, 2007, 05:50:02 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 27, 2007, 06:07:06 AM
Post by: Arbok on June 27, 2007, 06:22:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
The banana peel is still there after Kirby slipped on it. I guess it stays put for a while like the flipper. Considering that Kirby seems to be momentarily stunned after slipping on it, it could be quite the tide-turner.
Banana peel + fully charged punch from DK = Evil
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2007, 06:37:33 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 27, 2007, 07:23:58 AM
JUST LIKE BOB-OMBS AND MOTION SENSOR MINES, M I RITE?
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2007, 07:32:02 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 08:35:20 AM
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2007, 08:38:21 AM
Post by: vudu on June 27, 2007, 08:57:17 AM
QuoteThat makes no sense at all.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
The more I think about it though the more I would like to see Human Midna take Sheik's place as Zelda's transformation, keeping all the same moves of course. I think that SSB is ready for a hot redhead.
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2007, 08:59:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteThat makes no sense at all.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
The more I think about it though the more I would like to see Human Midna take Sheik's place as Zelda's transformation, keeping all the same moves of course. I think that SSB is ready for a hot redhead.
Midna's a redhead. EVERYTHING makes sense.
Post by: Mashiro on June 27, 2007, 09:02:12 AM
What the hell do people expect? A new character everyday or something?
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 09:18:41 AM
Quote
"I think that SSB is ready for a hot redhead."
Sup, Roy...
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2007, 09:28:38 AM
Or how about Misty as a playable character...not hot, but is a red head.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 09:30:38 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2007, 09:59:57 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 10:02:19 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2007, 10:18:30 AM
That does not make someone HOT. That makes you arrested. Period.
The most you can say is she is spunky and cute...and you still will get the pervert look from people.
However, Jill is simply a must for Brawl...I dream of her and Mega Man.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 10:32:12 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2007, 10:34:42 AM
Followed by the NERD!!! Insult.
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2007, 10:45:59 AM
Post by: nickmitch on June 27, 2007, 11:36:50 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 27, 2007, 11:57:25 AM
Post by: Shecky on June 27, 2007, 12:49:46 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 01:34:55 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 27, 2007, 02:02:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
It's hilarious all the bitching that's going on at Gamefaqs about this update. They're crying that it's the worst update ever, and a useless item, because you can just jump over it.
JUST LIKE BOB-OMBS AND MOTION SENSOR MINES, M I RITE?
I thought that I was the only one here who also goes to the Gamefaqs boards. I did not think that anyone else here was masochistic enough to wade into that pool of mostly mentally inebriated whelps when these forums are much more conducive to (mostly) intelligent conversations.
I wonder what the next update is going to be. My bet is on either something that will go under the "How to play" listing or a characters moves.
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2007, 02:10:05 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 27, 2007, 05:24:58 PM
Quote
Spak-Spang wrote:
That does not make someone HOT. That makes you arrested. Period.
Hands down, the best comment of the thread.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 27, 2007, 05:26:35 PM
"Oh noes. Someone thinks an over-sexualized anime character is hot!"
Post by: LuigiHann on June 27, 2007, 06:52:59 PM
I don't know what she looks like now, but she must be close to 18 by now
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 27, 2007, 07:24:32 PM
Because it's appropriate!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 27, 2007, 07:26:01 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2007, 07:47:41 PM
/bows down
Post by: LuigiHann on June 27, 2007, 07:56:45 PM
She's filled out nicely.
So yeah, she could be in Smash Bros. Maybe just as a trophy. I wonder if they'll do trophies again.
Man, Misty is hot
Post by: Mashiro on June 27, 2007, 07:58:07 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 27, 2007, 08:00:30 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 27, 2007, 08:03:36 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 27, 2007, 08:10:23 PM
Post by: Mashiro on June 27, 2007, 10:02:31 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 27, 2007, 11:36:30 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 28, 2007, 12:46:09 AM
I think most people are just looking for something that is not there, hoping to gleam some more info out of what I think some, not me, would call a lackluster update. This is all just my take though, and I wont mind hearing about the characters that other may see in the screen shot.
Post by: Sarail on June 28, 2007, 01:42:47 AM
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2007, 01:44:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHann
When I was like 13, Misty was hot.
I don't know what she looks like now, but she must be close to 18 by now
Lets see, Misty was 10 in the original cartoon and games. Pokemon has been around ~11 years. So she is 21. Congratulation Misty you can drink!
Anyways, they did a great job on taking a possibly lame utilitarian update and spicing it up with some good information. Though anyone else notice that they to do cellphone style name entry? I'm starting to think that actual games don't have access to the keyboard input stuff built in. Which would make sense actually. Nintendo generally just dumps you into the raw hardware when a game starts.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2007, 02:22:13 AM
They are literally thinking of every little detail to make not only the game playable and enjoyable, but also the entire interface for playing the game.
I love the idea of programing how I want EACH control setup to work, that way it is done once, and no matter how I decide to play the game it is setup for me.
The only thing I don't like is the Cell Phone set up for name entry. It is too modern and really not the fastest way to do it. Sure everyone knows how to text on phones now...but give me the Wii internet keyboard please...I am pretty fast with that.
Post by: Shecky on June 28, 2007, 03:30:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Though anyone else notice that they to do cellphone style name entry? I'm starting to think that actual games don't have access to the keyboard input stuff built in. Which would make sense actually. Nintendo generally just dumps you into the raw hardware when a game starts.
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
The only thing I don't like is the Cell Phone set up for name entry. It is too modern and really not the fastest way to do it. Sure everyone knows how to text on phones now...but give me the Wii internet keyboard please...I am pretty fast with that.
It could just be the real estate that the keyboard takes up. I remember in SSBM that entering a new name would cause a pretty nasty interruption if done at the character select screen. A small cellphone keypad type entry would be easy enough to bring up without interrupting others from picking a name or creating their own name. It is also likely due to the teens that are just used to it and focus group studies may have shown that it is a preferred form of input. (Even if older people like me find it slower)
Post by: Kenology on June 28, 2007, 03:35:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
This update reminds me what seperates the good designers from the great designers.
They are literally thinking of every little detail to make not only the game playable and enjoyable, but also the entire interface for playing the game.
Agreed.
This is a great update. I plan on using the GC controller, and hopefully, I'll be able to configure it to use the d-pad as opposed to the analog stick.
Post by: EasyCure on June 28, 2007, 03:57:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
This update reminds me what seperates the good designers from the great designers.
They are literally thinking of every little detail to make not only the game playable and enjoyable, but also the entire interface for playing the game.
I love the idea of programing how I want EACH control setup to work, that way it is done once, and no matter how I decide to play the game it is setup for me.
The only thing I don't like is the Cell Phone set up for name entry. It is too modern and really not the fastest way to do it. Sure everyone knows how to text on phones now...but give me the Wii internet keyboard please...I am pretty fast with that.
even if it does take (you) longer you're only going to be doing it once. if you want a different profile name for a different controller (ie "spak" for wiimote and "spak2" for GC controller) you'd only have to input each name only once, so a few extra seconds of your life won't be completely wasted (compared to how many hours you might play this with friends off or online)
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2007, 05:01:06 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2007, 05:02:26 AM
Anyway, I don't want to sound like I am complaining too much...I just don't like the Cell Phone input...to me it is counter intuitive. However, if it does allow for multiple people to input their name at a time then it will be a pretty cool system.
Post by: Caterkiller on June 28, 2007, 05:41:21 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2007, 05:44:32 AM
Classic Controller:
L/R Block/Throw
X/Y both Jump
A Special
B Attack (Or vice versa) I can't remember the button layout.
That is how I will be playing.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 28, 2007, 06:26:20 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 28, 2007, 06:30:39 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2007, 07:20:12 AM
I enjoyed the charging Smashes from Melee, but I am also ok with the simplistic Smash System from the first.
It doesn't really matter to me though. I just want to play the game.
Post by: vudu on June 28, 2007, 08:22:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
The first post is falling behind!
Quote
Originally posted by: wanderingonJune 8, 2007
Just to let you all know, I'm going on a trip and I won't be able to update the first post for a few weeks.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 28, 2007, 09:20:23 AM
A - Standard attack
B - Special Attack
D-pad Down - Jump
Z - Shield
C - Grab
I might switch the buttons for Special Attack and Jump if I feel it necessary...
Post by: that Baby guy on June 28, 2007, 09:27:15 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 28, 2007, 09:50:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kenology
This is a great update. I plan on using the GC controller, and hopefully, I'll be able to configure it to use the d-pad as opposed to the analog stick.
Worst control setup ever.
Post by: Smoke39 on June 28, 2007, 01:48:39 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 28, 2007, 01:57:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Kenology
This is a great update. I plan on using the GC controller, and hopefully, I'll be able to configure it to use the d-pad as opposed to the analog stick.
Worst control setup ever.
lolz!
But just in case you're not being sarcastic and mocking Mario, I'm thinkin' that the GC controller was already proven with SSB:M. And I'm thinking that perhaps the D-Pad might be a little better to use being as though everything takes place on a 2D plane.
Post by: IceCold on June 28, 2007, 03:02:16 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 28, 2007, 03:55:05 PM
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2007, 04:22:43 PM
Post by: Kenology on June 28, 2007, 06:24:33 PM
Post by: Dasmos on June 28, 2007, 06:33:16 PM
Quotelol, Sakurai mentioned it in the test below the image. Anyone who read the update would have noticed it.
Originally posted by: Ceric
Though anyone else notice that they to do cellphone style name entry?
Post by: Zach on June 28, 2007, 07:30:10 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 28, 2007, 08:07:36 PM
Post by: Adrock on June 28, 2007, 08:08:51 PM
And it kind of looks like the Wario Waft can be used as a recovery move.
Also, I hope they include his original yellow outfit, for nostalgia's sake.
Post by: Arbok on June 28, 2007, 08:13:31 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 28, 2007, 08:30:11 PM
Post by: Kairon on June 28, 2007, 08:48:56 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 28, 2007, 09:17:25 PM
I also liked this update because it inched more towards ZSS being a transformation of Samus, at least in my opinion.
This update does leave a few interesting questions open though. The first one that comes to my mind is what would happen if there are multiple Warios in a match? Does each Wario get his own chopper, or do they have to share one? Second, since it looks like Mario is carrying Wario's Chopper, does that mean that it can be considered an item when Wario is not on it? Would that not make Wario banned from tournaments for the mere fact that he introduces an item into the match (by the way, I cannot stand the currently used tournament rules for anyone who would like to know)? Lastly, will Wario's FSA still be the big nuke fart, seeing as how everyone was lead to believe that it was called the Wario Waft, yet it now appears that the name is for a regular special move.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 28, 2007, 10:29:19 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 29, 2007, 02:39:21 AM
As for the update...I really love this update. Wario was one of the characters I was worried about just playing too similar to other characters...but now there is definitely a different feel to him.
I can safely say now that Wario is going to be a heavy power character. His two special moves highlighted as quite dangerous, but have interesting quarks to balance them out.
The Wario Waft is hilarious...and it is new type of charged attack that charges while you battle normal. I wonder if there will be visual indications of how charged the attack is...or if players are just going to have to watch Wario and remember?
Now, the chopper represents the first time that a special move perminently stays on screen. This obviously has some fun advantages. You can drive around and leave the bike in a crucial place for attacks, or what not.
But, the fact that other players can jack with Wario's Bike is great and also a new gameplay element. When Wario is playing do we automatically have a perminent projectile to throw on screen?
Another question is will there be two Bikes on screen if two people play Wario? The entry states specifically only one Bike will be on screen at a time. If the above is true you will have some fun Wario on Wario battles for that item.
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 29, 2007, 02:42:31 AM
Wario's Final Smash will be forcing a player into a series of random Wario Ware activities which if they fail it is instant death.
Ok...not really, but it would be funny.
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 29, 2007, 03:35:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
What did that update have to do with Samus?
He means that everything in the first trailer should be taken at face value...
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2007, 04:03:09 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 29, 2007, 04:06:29 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on June 29, 2007, 05:03:29 AM
Quote
Tilt the Control Stick in the opposite direction of your movement to pull a 180. Use an attack button to jump off.
Quote
Only one motorcycle will appear on screen, so if you fall off, run back up to it and climb on again.
It's possible that the move only lasts for a certain amount of time in the first place, like everyone else's, and then the chopper disappears. It may also disappear if you end the move early yourself. The bit about falling off makes me think Wario can be knocked off with a well placed attack, and it is only then that the chopper remains.
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 29, 2007, 05:28:17 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on June 29, 2007, 05:40:03 AM
Post by: Darkheart on June 29, 2007, 08:08:06 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 29, 2007, 09:45:25 AM
Or be unbeatable bosses that put everyone on an endless challenge like beating the Running Man from Zelda. Like, it'd be about how many breaths you can take before getting your name taken while in the face of intensity.
Post by: LuigiHann on June 29, 2007, 09:54:41 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 29, 2007, 10:17:17 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on June 29, 2007, 11:07:59 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on June 29, 2007, 12:06:48 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 29, 2007, 12:53:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Maybe neutral B is a chargeable shoulder rush. It would also be cool that when he grabs somebody he holds them up over his head, single handed, and can move like DK can when he has grabbed somebody.
Hah, I was just thinking that. I'd be fine if it was based on weight, like he could easily hold and throw Kirby or Pikachu like that, but would obviously have to take heavier characters more seriously.
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2007, 01:41:04 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on June 30, 2007, 11:20:39 AM
The bike doesn't bother me one bit, its just a bigger turnip or bobomb from Peach thats easier to pick up.
Post by: TEM on June 30, 2007, 03:07:23 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on June 30, 2007, 03:13:02 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 01, 2007, 08:07:49 PM
Sad that Samurai Goro isn't a selectable character... I can honestly see a lot of characters we all want to see playable being relegated to Assist Trophy status. At least we all know Pit made the cut.
Post by: Dasmos on July 01, 2007, 08:10:03 PM
Definately my favourite update so far.
Post by: Mashiro on July 01, 2007, 08:18:46 PM
Even if additional non-nintendo characters don't make it into the game, I wonder how many/if any will make it as assist trophies =D
Post by: Mashiro on July 01, 2007, 08:18:46 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 01, 2007, 08:23:35 PM
Quote
Even if additional non-nintendo characters don't make it into the game, I wonder how many/if any will make it as assist trophies =D
I wouldn't expect 3rd party characters to make it as assist trophies unless the series they're from is represented by a playable character. For example, no Tails or Knuckles assist trophies unless Sonic is selectable.
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 08:38:45 PM
Post by: Caterkiller on July 01, 2007, 08:45:06 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 01, 2007, 08:47:12 PM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 01, 2007, 09:14:24 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 01, 2007, 09:36:06 PM
Quote
You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them.
Wow, I can't wait to see who some of these characters will be.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 02, 2007, 02:23:48 AM
I don't know what to think about 3rd party characters being assist characters or not. In a way if Sonic is included it would be a great easy way to include tails, or Mega Man included then have Proto Man or Rush come to aid you.
It definitely isn't necessary but it could be a cool way to bring out the entire history of Nintendo and its trusted 3rd parties.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 02, 2007, 03:25:07 AM
Though, Capcom has already done stuff like this in their games.
This is how we'll probably see the EBA, instead of as a playable character.
Post by: Strell on July 02, 2007, 03:46:32 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 02, 2007, 03:46:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This is how we'll probably see the EBA, instead of as a playable character.
It seems a lot more plausible now. Now they could easily have EBA and Ouendan as trophies. Along with all the other not-famous-enough-to-be-playable characters.
In fact, this seems like the most likely way we'll see oddball character variations like Wind Waker Link and Paper Mario.
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2007, 04:06:54 AM
I hope you have percentage chance to get randoms ones you don't have but it mostly comes from the collection you built up. Puts more into the trophies. I hope you are vulnerable while you hold the trophy up to summon. That way people can counter-act it easier. The hammer bros looks nice.
Post by: mantidor on July 02, 2007, 04:51:40 AM
if he makes it he would be an assist trophy most likely.At least he would be invincible.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 02, 2007, 05:10:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
At least he would be invincible.
I bet they'd be willing to make an exception for Tingle.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
But what would EBA do?
Dance? Maybe dance so hard that they turn the Earth itself into a giant laser?
Or maybe they'd just dance around and hit people with their fast moves and kicks.
Post by: EasyCure on July 02, 2007, 05:11:56 AM
Quote
Right now I am calling that a Metroid will be an assist Character. It will go and drain the energy (damage them) and then give you that energy back...unless it is killed first.
Quote
At least he would be invincible
you wouldnt be able to kill the metroid, as the blog stated and mantidor reiterated, assist trophy characters are invincible.
Post by: Arbok on July 02, 2007, 05:15:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
you wouldnt be able to kill the metroid, as the blog stated and mantidor reiterated, assist trophy characters are invincible.
Not so:
"By the way, the majority of Assist Trophies are invincible."
Most will be, but not all going from that comment.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 02, 2007, 05:57:19 AM
I've wanted to punt his irritating ass out of the Termina Bay stage for years.
Post by: mantidor on July 02, 2007, 05:59:12 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 02, 2007, 06:00:20 AM
But yes, assist characters should be KO-able.
Though...
"By the way, the majority of Assist Trophies are invincible. Trying to fight back is useless, so just run away."
Damn.
Post by: Kairon on July 02, 2007, 07:17:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
"By the way, the majority of Assist Trophies are invincible. Trying to fight back is useless, so just run away."
Bolded for hope.
Post by: Kenology on July 02, 2007, 08:34:23 AM
I swore Samarai Goroh was a selectable playable character at first though...
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 02, 2007, 09:10:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kenology
I swore Samarai Goroh was a selectable playable character at first though...
Same. They really need to say, "Assist Character: Samurai Goroh" so we don't get excited.
My jaw dropped when I saw it as well.
Post by: Sessha on July 02, 2007, 01:30:42 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 02, 2007, 02:02:42 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 02, 2007, 02:48:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Kenology
I swore Samarai Goroh was a selectable playable character at first though...
Same. They really need to say, "Assist Character: Samurai Goroh" so we don't get excited.
My jaw dropped when I saw it as well.
Take a glance at the top right corner of the update, and it'll tell you if it's a character or an item, so you don't get your hopes up.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 02, 2007, 03:03:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Sessha
If Ness is included in Brawl it would be cool to see Pokey in his Spider Mech.
The background of the stage could be replaced with Giygas while Pokey was running around causing trouble. :D
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2007, 03:39:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Well Personally I hope one of the Koopa kids is playable in the game...or perhaps like Ice Climbers two at a time.
While it be awesome to see them playable I think I rather have them as assist trophies simply because it could include them all. Then they could have a Koopa Family event. Where there was always at least 1 member of the koopa family on the field at a time and all assist trophies were other or minions.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 02, 2007, 03:43:34 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 02, 2007, 07:22:13 PM
Man, I'll cry if some Pikmin show up as assist characters - I want Olimar as a full-fledged one, dammit!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 02, 2007, 08:02:50 PM
Quote
To be honest, there are a LOT of characters that offer a slightly different flavor this time around. If you think they’re all going to be the same as they have been, it’ll be rough for you.
Oh snap.
Post by: Sarail on July 02, 2007, 08:12:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Bowser, nice. Also...Quote
To be honest, there are a LOT of characters that offer a slightly different flavor this time around. If you think they’re all going to be the same as they have been, it’ll be rough for you.
Oh snap.
Oh my, oh my. Let the tournament Smash junkies start their collective ranting...
*sits back to watch the onslaught*
Post by: Adrock on July 02, 2007, 08:40:50 PM
Several characters in Melee had a lot of potential but were completely ruined by the balance issues. Take, for example, the Ice Climbers. If they weren't so pathetically weak, they'd be a hell of a lot more fun to play as. I like the Ice Climbers; it's just hard to use them seeing as they have basically one finisher, next to no range and they're not even that fast. I'll take tweaked characters any day.
Also, some Assist Trophy suggestions (apologies in advance for repeats): Mouser, Triclyde, Koopa Kids, Kamek, Stalfos, Wall Master, Goron, Starman Super, a Chozo, a Metroid, the X parasites.
And I know Castlevania probably won't be represented, but Medusa Heads would be pretty cool.
Post by: Sarail on July 02, 2007, 08:49:17 PM
Anything can happen with Brawl. Anything.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 02, 2007, 08:55:57 PM
But regardless, I really hope they make Bowser not suck. He was so badass, but he was made of so much fail.
Post by: Adrock on July 02, 2007, 09:11:15 PM
I'd love to see a Belmont, but I think it's a long shot to see 2 selectable Konami characters in the game. I won't complain if I'm proven wrong though.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 02, 2007, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 02, 2007, 09:48:29 PM
Nice to hear they are tweaking a lot of the characters.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 02, 2007, 10:42:39 PM
Well since I already know how Smash Bros plays I guess it's not that disappointing but I was really hoping to see how Meta Knight would play and what his moves are. Of course maybe they'll be a new trailer that'll show some of that so I'll remain hopeful.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 02, 2007, 10:49:40 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2007, 01:41:45 AM
I think everyone is curious to see what it means by tweaked. Obviously, the balance needed to be solved between fast and heavy characters...lets hope it has been.
As for it being playable at E3, I believe it and don't. Yes, it will not be highlighted to all media at E3. Nintendo is going to want E3 to be focused on Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Battalion Wars Wii, Super Mario Strikers, and several of its DS games.
However, behind closed doors print Magizines and probably IGN and Gamespot will be getting exclusive game time with Smash Bros Brawl...and if Nintendo feels it needs to show more after hearing what Microsoft and Sony is showing can reveal Brawl to everyone.
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2007, 02:20:16 AM
I agree with Spak-Spang. It could still appear. I mean by that time if they want it out by holiday it should at least be fairly playable. From the updates it already seems to be.
Can't wait for BWII. My Cube glitched on the first so I never finished it and I can't find the disc now.
Post by: EasyCure on July 03, 2007, 02:37:10 AM
that gleam in his eye do make him look sinister though
Post by: Mashiro on July 03, 2007, 02:51:49 AM
I agree as well with Spak-Spang.
You know . . . (random side note) if Nintendo REALLY wants Metroid Prime 3 to fly off the shelves they should include a playable demo of SSBB. Imagine how fast the game would sell out =D
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2007, 02:59:05 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2007, 03:11:32 AM
Now, I went back to look at the Bowser model to see what people were talking about highly detailed stuffed animal. I can kinda of see it. Though to me it looks more like a model or trophy which if you notice is still the theme of Brawl.
It also appears to me though that Bowser looks roughed up...like he has some scars from all his battles and such.
Finally, I like his hair, bed hair or not, do you actually expect Bowser to wake up and do his hair, he is an evil turtle afterall, not a metasexual.
Post by: Strell on July 03, 2007, 03:22:51 AM
Like "Hey kids! I'm soft and full of candy!"
Post by: Mashiro on July 03, 2007, 03:32:45 AM
Also if you look at Bowser from the top right screen shot you will notice his spikey hair isn't quite gone, it's still somewhat spikey =)
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2007, 03:41:39 AM
Heres why. MP3 Dark FPA/S where you go it alone; Mario bright platformer where you go it alone. BWii action RTS for lack of a better term with what will most likely be a rocking online multi; Smash multi all the way. Stark contrasts with similar targets.
Bowsers face area just looks like a stuff toy.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2007, 04:22:22 AM
Well, one thing I have noticed about almost all 3D models is they are designed to be animated...when you see any model even the great models from Pixar or the top movies they begin to look wierd still.
Post by: EasyCure on July 03, 2007, 05:00:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Finally, I like his hair, bed hair or not, do you actually expect Bowser to wake up and do his hair, he is an evil turtle afterall, not a metasexual.
LOL true but he looks like a punk rocker with all the spiked bands he has and the hair complimented that ;-)
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2007, 05:10:13 AM
Post by: EasyCure on July 03, 2007, 05:50:04 AM
i cant afford SPM right now..is the music as heavy as the metal OCRemix of his castle tune from SMB1?
Post by: stevey on July 03, 2007, 06:36:07 AM
Quote
To be honest, there are a LOT of characters that offer a slightly different flavor this time around. If you think they’re all going to be the same as they have been, it’ll be rough for you.
I glad that they're fixing broken characters and Bowser is the one that needs to be fix more than any other SSBM characters. Bowser would be my favorite character if he just move a lot faster....
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2007, 06:38:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
is the music as heavy as the metal OCRemix of his castle tune from SMB1?
First off rent not buy SPM. Its worth a play through and a bargain pick-up if you haven't. I haven't heard that remix but it was sort of grudgy using and electric guitar.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 03, 2007, 08:42:14 AM
THANK FUÇKING GOD!!!!!
Well, I'm not going to get my hopes up yet, but Bowser is easily my favorite character and I'd love it if he didn't suck this time.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 03, 2007, 09:09:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
"The biggest and the heaviest of fighters, Bowser has a slightly different flavor this time around!"
THANK FUÇKING GOD!!!!!
Well, I'm not going to get my hopes up yet, but Bowser is easily my favorite character and I'd love it if he didn't suck this time.
We'll if you look at the image of him hitting Fox, you see that his claw has a much longer reach then it did in Melee. Which points to him being made into a better character since it looks like his attacks can actually hit people in this game.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 03, 2007, 09:19:12 AM
But I'll still hold out judgment until I actually play the game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2007, 09:23:54 AM
If it is not then it is good that Bowser is getting more range. It also looks like his Shell Spin attack is different...but I dunno what that exactly means yet.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 03, 2007, 10:35:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang I remember a Claw swipe attack in Melee.
Long time no smash?
Bowser's toward+B would make him slash, which could result in either hitting an opponent or grabbing them if they were close enough.
It was an incredibly hard move to pull off, but throwing someone backwards after doing it equated the strongest throw in the game.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2007, 11:27:17 AM
But now, I don't have any cube controllers and they are actually quite hard to find used...oh well.
Post by: EasyCure on July 03, 2007, 05:48:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
is the music as heavy as the metal OCRemix of his castle tune from SMB1?
First off rent not buy SPM. Its worth a play through and a bargain pick-up if you haven't. I haven't heard that remix but it was sort of grudgy using and electric guitar.
i dont like renting games that are good (and going by reviews and all the praise it gets here, it is good) cuz even if its short (like i hear SPM is) if its that good i'll gladly play it over and over again. i never like getting rid of games.
oh and check this out: "Bowser is Pissed"
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 03, 2007, 06:02:10 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on July 03, 2007, 08:23:36 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 03, 2007, 08:31:48 PM
Yeah, it's the Juggernaut Bitch!!!
Post by: Mashiro on July 03, 2007, 08:44:33 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 03, 2007, 08:46:51 PM
I'd say he has the greatest looking character model so far. He looks to be even bigger than he was in Melee too.
Post by: Crimm on July 03, 2007, 09:05:17 PM
...what?
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 03, 2007, 09:27:09 PM
In any case, very neato.
Post by: Mashiro on July 03, 2007, 09:32:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
I was kinda hoping Ganondorf would have a final smash like this. . .
In any case, very neato.
Who says he wont? =)
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 03, 2007, 09:44:55 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 03, 2007, 10:17:08 PM
Please Sakurai, make it happen.
Post by: Kenology on July 04, 2007, 01:37:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Hopefully Ganondorf will be able to transform into Ganon for his Final Smash. Then we might be able to have a Ganon Vs Giga Bowser fight. Oh God, I'm afraid my TV might explode from such power.
Please Sakurai, make it happen.
LMAO @ "TV might explode from such power"!!
But yeah, that would be hot. And also, I'd like Ganondorf to be able to fight hand-to-hand (though not as a Captain Falcon mock character) AND be able to fight with his sword (the one he had in one of his Melee win poses and the 2000 Zelda demo). He'd better be the most powerful fighter in the game again too... he Ganondorf.
Post by: Ceric on July 04, 2007, 02:18:36 AM
I think Ganondorf should have a powerful final smash but, end up as a pig afterwards, temporarily.
Post by: Shecky on July 04, 2007, 02:36:53 AM
Quote
What, you think just because he’s huge, you can needle him with lots of little attacks and keep him off balance? Heh heh... Yeah, you keep thinking that.
Heh, wasn't that the strategy with jigglypuff and gigabowser in SSBM?
Complete random thought... would it be cool to have items that worked *if* you throw them off screen. As an example, lightning item that if thrown at a player gives them a minor shock but if thrown up into the sky causes it to thunderstorm.... Wind item that if thrown off the sides causes an eruption of wind from that direction (and if there is water, waves as well)... Eruption item that if thrown into lava immediately raises it to a higher than typical level for a bit (but not that it covers all possible safe ground)
Hmm, maybe it could all be a single item, that depending on what you do with it has different effects.
I think that would make for a pretty neat item...
Post by: Caliban on July 04, 2007, 03:05:40 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 04, 2007, 05:04:00 AM
But I'll keep him for the sake of a new "Event Match 51" just to DESTROY HIM AND GIGA TURTLE WITHOUT LOSING STOCK ALL OVER AGAIN
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 04, 2007, 05:05:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
I was kinda hoping Ganondorf would have a final smash like this. . .
In any case, very neato.
I think that would be pretty cool looking, Ganondorf turning into the big bullish thing from TP and trashing everyone on the stage. Or maybe turning into his pig form from OOT, also trashing everyone on the stage.
Post by: stevey on July 04, 2007, 06:14:00 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 04, 2007, 10:55:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
I'd like to see Ganondorf kicked out.
I'd like him in the game, but he needs all-new moves. And a sword.
Post by: Ceric on July 04, 2007, 03:16:26 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 04, 2007, 05:15:23 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 04, 2007, 08:11:49 PM
Now we know. :P
Post by: Mashiro on July 04, 2007, 08:58:01 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 05, 2007, 01:43:29 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 05, 2007, 01:49:58 AM
I personally don't know yet. I am assuming that A is special attacks, B is Regular attacks, and Together are Smash Attacks. It is a fairly easy means to design the game.
That means Up on the D-Pad is probably jump, and either A or B is Block. So how will running work in the game? I assume that will work by tilting the controller slightly and pressing the D-Pad, or by just double tapping the D-Pad and holding it.
Post by: Ceric on July 05, 2007, 02:50:07 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 05, 2007, 03:24:07 AM
I guess B for Blocks, and then tilt for Dodges and rolls would work. Double tap to run.
The only problem I would personally have is Up for jump, because I hate using up for jump. Other than that it looks like a pretty viable control scheme.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 05, 2007, 03:24:41 AM
SPM used the 1+2 combo to bring up the quick menu and it didn't always work for me.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 05, 2007, 04:26:17 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 05, 2007, 05:37:53 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 05, 2007, 05:50:05 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 05, 2007, 06:01:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
It can't be, though. The update makes note of the fact that 1+dpad = strong attack.
It's confusing enough that I had to check, but you're mixing 1 and 2. 2+dpad = strong attack. They haven't said what 1 does outside of the 1+2 smash move.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 05, 2007, 06:03:17 AM
I'm assuming it's the special moves, though.
I don't mind the idea of double tapping up to jump, double tapping down to drop through a platform, but combining it with a button just seems cumbersome.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 05, 2007, 06:50:26 AM
I find the idea of using the 1 button in such a way is no harder than using the shift button on a keyboard or holding B to unholster your weapon and then pressing A to fire said weapon in RE4, but that could just be me.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 05, 2007, 06:56:29 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 05, 2007, 07:07:46 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 05, 2007, 08:10:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
A button can't work. You can't take your hand off the dpad and still do toward+B special moves.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
A will have to be taunt or something else relatively useless. Be should be the other attack because I don't see most people wanting to hold that button.
Hmm... I did not really think about those particular problems. My guess now is that B will be special, and that A may be shield, although that does not allow someone to move their shield around or preform evasions with ease, unless they want people to have to move their hands around the control to preform such moves (which, in effect, would telegraph your intentions to the other players). So maybe shield is minus or plus. I do not know, in fact I think I am just going to give up on trying to figure it out with the information given. I am sure that the design team has gone through all of this and has come up with a viable solution, because right now thinking about it is making my head hurt.
Post by: Ceric on July 05, 2007, 08:51:24 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 05, 2007, 09:51:24 AM
But really I think the "Shift" button idea is very cumbersome, and not very likely for controlling a fast fighter like Smash Bros.
Besides, we have proven that you don't need a "Shift Button" 1,2, and combo1&2 equal 3 buttons worth of moves. a Double tap Jump would be easy to handle, and B for shield will be very easy to impliment. Then you can press B and forward to grab a player and throw. Tilt while holding B to evade attacks or dodge.
A very simple and elegant control scheme for the fighter.
Post by: Shecky on July 05, 2007, 11:27:11 AM
Oh and grab would be shield and attack, like it has been in the past titles. No need for tilting to roll... just shield + Left or Right
- = Taunt
+ = Pause (for single player)
Edit: They may also let you assign gestures for control (like a few default gestures - tilts and shakes) but not use any be default. There could be a whole assortment of control options for a player to pick from. ie: reverse axis, disable up for jump, remap buttons, rumble on/off, (speaker is a global thing afaik)
Post by: Sarail on July 05, 2007, 12:19:10 PM
D-pad left/right: Move character (of course)
D-pad up: Jump
D-pad down: crouch (double tap to fall through platforms)
1 button: Specials (double tap for those few characters with Smash specials)
2 button: Standard attacks
1+2 buttons: Smash attacks
A button: Shield (motion left/right to roll left/right - same for air dodges)(also thrust down for sidestep)
B trigger: Grab/throw
Motion for dodging makes more sense than for attacking. Attacking just seems like it requires more precision.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 05, 2007, 12:31:30 PM
Post by: Shecky on July 05, 2007, 05:03:56 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 05, 2007, 05:05:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
Throwing has always been the combination of bringing up a shield and pushing the attack button, why would it need it's own button?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Z button on the Cube controller the melee throw button?
Post by: Kairon on July 05, 2007, 05:08:26 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 05, 2007, 05:29:07 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 05, 2007, 05:46:43 PM
But yeah I prefer the Z-button throw method far more than the Shoulder Button + A combo.
Post by: Mashiro on July 05, 2007, 08:09:07 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 05, 2007, 08:09:31 PM
Man, Bridge of Eldin looks simple but great... the fact that King Bulblin appear to populate it, somehow, has me really interested.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 05, 2007, 08:14:11 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 05, 2007, 08:16:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
It's very... orange.
Post by: Adrock on July 05, 2007, 09:18:59 PM
It doesn't look like it's to scale. Not that I'd want a stage as expansive as Eldin Bridge was in Twilight Princess, but I was hoping for exact scaled stages.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 05, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on July 05, 2007, 09:40:15 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 05, 2007, 10:20:04 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 06, 2007, 01:07:48 AM
Post by: Shecky on July 06, 2007, 01:14:54 AM
Should be good for beginners and tournaments alike (and for general play too)
Post by: Kenology on July 06, 2007, 01:35:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I really couldn't think of better Zelda themed stage idea.
Me either. Bridge of Eldin FTW, indeed.
I'm almost sure that the Zelda medley we heard won't be playing on this stage. I'm thinking there's another OoT inspired stage as well.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2007, 01:53:11 AM
Kenology: I agree with you that the Zelda medley doesn't work for this stage. I want to hear the boss music from the Twilight Princess battle sequence on the bridge.
I do believe this may have been the biggest and best week of updates on the Smash Bros. site. We got controller information, a great new level, Bowser, Giga Bowser...what more could you ask for? That is right nothing.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 06, 2007, 03:22:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang That is right nothing.
Secret characters?
Post by: mantidor on July 06, 2007, 03:44:51 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2007, 03:56:09 AM
Hmm? huh? Buh?
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 06, 2007, 04:01:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang That is right nothing.
Secret characters?
Do you know what secret means?
I for one don't want to know who the secret characters are until I unlock them. It was a thrill in the previous games, and I don't want that kind of thing spoiled while I'm reading tidbits on new stages and moves.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 06, 2007, 04:29:05 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2007, 05:58:52 AM
With Brawl and the posibilities of several 3rd party characters, I hope they keep several secret because it will blow the net away when they are finally discovered, and when you have to face them for the first time and are like. "HOLY SHATNER, Its Mega Man...they really did put him in!!!"
now how do I beat him.
Post by: Ceric on July 06, 2007, 06:11:23 AM
If they did decide to put Megaman in I would vote for Cartoon series Megaman. Especially since he can grab others powers on the fly. He just has to have contact with them for long enough.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 06, 2007, 06:19:42 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 06, 2007, 08:08:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
If Sakurai demonstrates that he doesn't know what secret means, either, I'll simply do my best to avoid spoilers until the game's release.
I think I'll probably do the same, but that'll only be because I'll be too busy with other things as Brawl is coming out.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 06, 2007, 08:28:33 AM
Plus I'd like to know were you heard Sakurai say he'd reveal them all before the games released? I followed all of the translations from his responses to Japanese fans last year and he never said anything about revealing them all before launch.
Post by: Adrock on July 06, 2007, 09:02:20 AM
Once they start revealing secret characters, I think I'll try to avoid Brawl news. Finding out 1 or 2 is fine by me, but I really do want to be surprised this time. I wouldn't mind if someone listed how to unlock all the characters/stages without revealing what was unlocked.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 06, 2007, 09:10:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
You are aware that Sakurai said that ALL secret characters would, in fact, be revealed before the launch of the game, right?
Link please. What the hell's the point in making them secret if they're, you know, not?
Also, I think Samurai Goro should be removed from the first page, ESPECIALLY since he's under the section with all the playable characters. Also:
Post by: wandering on July 06, 2007, 09:23:31 AM
Quote
Also, I think Samurai Goro should be removed from the first page, ESPECIALLY since he's under the section with all the playable characters.
Oh, he's an assist trophy, isn't he? No wonder he looks so crappy. Sorry bout that.
Post by: Shecky on July 06, 2007, 12:48:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
lol, I thought you where actually going to say Bill Shatner...
If they did decide to put Megaman in I would vote for Cartoon series Megaman. Especially since he can grab others powers on the fly. He just has to have contact with them for long enough.
Heh, he could be like Kirby except instead you grab the opponent (and maybe hit special attack). Either that or you get their power after KO that opponent and loose it when you yourself die.
Post by: Ceric on July 06, 2007, 04:05:12 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 07, 2007, 04:22:51 AM
His other special attacks can be his uppercut, a Slide move, maybe a teleport, since he seems to teleport into each level of his games.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 07, 2007, 08:27:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I actually wouldn't want Mega Man to copy abilities. But be able to have a Down B to cycle through like 3-4 different Robot forms from his past games giving him different projectiles.
Agreed.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 07, 2007, 10:21:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Link please. What the hell's the point in making them secret if they're, you know, not?
In hindsight, it could be bullsh*t, but I think the plan was to avoid all of the fuss people were making over them before Melee came out.
I wouldn't mind if they stayed secret, but the truth is, it would be better for me to learn about a disappointing secret character lineup online (like I did for Melee) than to learn about it as I unlock them.
Even I wouldn't want to be in the room when I unlocked a terrible character...
Post by: LuigiHann on July 07, 2007, 02:47:40 PM
Not too relevant, I know. But man, that picture of Luigi had a giant head.
Post by: TEM on July 07, 2007, 02:47:54 PM
It's like Christmas morning when you are 8 rolled up into 3 seconds of mind orgasm.
So if anyone can get a link and can confirm or somehow disprove it, that'd be mighty fine.
Post by: MODE_RED on July 08, 2007, 03:21:55 AM
Post by: Shecky on July 08, 2007, 06:24:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MODE_RED
Anyone else notice that the Bridge of Eldan stage looks like Cammy's stage from Super Street Fighter 2?
You jest...
Post by: Mikintosh on July 08, 2007, 03:50:48 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 04:15:06 PM
I wonder how Smash Bros will play on a totally flat, almost Street-Fighter-like level. Should be interesting.
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 04:19:10 PM
Post by: Shecky on July 08, 2007, 04:27:36 PM
You might as well say that any stage that had a bridge was similar if your going to claim that level bears resemblance... Not that I care either way, I guess I just don't see it
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 04:30:35 PM
I guess because Final Destination was so round, it didn't look flat the way this one does.
And Shecky, don't forget that not only is this a stone bridge, it's also near a castle. :p It's a mildly interesting coincidence.
Post by: Shecky on July 08, 2007, 04:34:43 PM
[I guess I'm seeing it a bit... maybe]
Also, Final Destination "floated" meaning you had edges to worry about. The bridge goes completely off screen so it does change up strategy a bit....
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 05:12:41 PM
The ends of the stage will probably act Similar to that of "Mushroom Kingdom II" (The Super Mario Bros. 2 stage in Melee).
Thanks for reminding me of Final Destinations name btw, can't believe I forgot its name. It was my favorite stage for intense 1v1 matches. God I can't wait for Brawl =D
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 05:59:11 PM
Interesting that this version of the Eldin Bridge doesn't have the uhh... "railings" or whatever that the original did. I guess that would make the scale issues a lot more obvious.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 08, 2007, 07:07:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
What? I see the resemblance, time of day excluded.
So it looks like it in that... It's a bridge?
Post by: LuigiHann on July 08, 2007, 07:41:19 PM
Is the castle, like, invisible to everyone but me?
Post by: Adrock on July 08, 2007, 08:22:48 PM
I hope tomorrow's update is better. We'll probably get a new trailer this week because of the E3 press conference.
Post by: Kairon on July 08, 2007, 08:30:55 PM
I mean, check it out:
Hold down the button and not hitting enemy = repeated first stage basic attack (repeated jabs)
hold down the button and hitting enemy = progressive stages of combo (jab, then kick, then whatever)
repeatedly tapping the button and regardless of whether you're hitting the enemy or not = progressive stages of combo (jab, then kick, then whatever)
Post by: Sarail on July 08, 2007, 08:33:58 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 08:35:31 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 08, 2007, 08:37:55 PM
Post by: Mikintosh on July 08, 2007, 08:43:55 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 08, 2007, 08:47:04 PM
Post by: Strell on July 08, 2007, 08:57:16 PM
I love this man. He's hilarious. Almost as amusing as Miyamoto. They should let this guy out in the public and see what in the hell he does. I bet he's damn sure been locked up in a developer studio for several months, I can only imagine the insane sh*t he might do when unleashed.
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 08, 2007, 10:07:38 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 08, 2007, 11:54:54 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 09, 2007, 01:36:08 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2007, 03:03:33 AM
The good is that it really doesn't change the gameplay that much. Holding a button and rapidly pressing a button for a combo is going to be about the same speed. Specially when you realize you can tap a button faster than the animation can play usually.
This will not hurt the balance of the game, or take skill away from the game. BUT, it will make the game more accessable to all controller types, all types of gamers (non, advanced, novice) and potentially open the game to some combo options.
Now you can potentially begin a standard combo, and then move forward, down, up, back to tack on a strong attack, and just flick to add a Smash. This WILL make the battle system easier, but we are talking about a 4 player game that is not about defeating an enemy by depleting their health. It is a game about area control, and fighting several opponents knocking them off the stage.
I don't think this inclusion is anything like the C-Stick Smash either. That mechanic allowed for you to pull off Smash attacks too quickly and easily. Making it harder for those that don't use that method to get their Smash Attacks in...which is the driving mechanic of the game. Standard combos and attacks are not the driving element of the game, only the Smash attacks are in my opinion, and I hope since they include this simplier combo system and they are trying to balance out all control methods, that they will remove the C-Stick Smash so that Wiimote users can have equal balance.
Post by: Ceric on July 09, 2007, 03:21:00 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 09, 2007, 06:43:00 AM
What I mean is that characters like Wario, Mario, Kirby and Pikachu will look WEIRD standing next to characters like Samus, Snake, Link and Zelda, who are far more realistically designed than in the last SSB games.
As Cap put it, it will be something like "Who framed Roger Rabbit?".
Post by: LuigiHann on July 09, 2007, 06:52:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
As Cap put it, it will be something like "Who framed Roger Rabbit?".
I don't think it'll be quite like that. There's a broad spectrum, sure, but not a clear line between "cartoon" and "real" like there is in that movie. Fox looks a bit more real than Wario, and Wario looks a quite a bit more real than Pikachu, even though all 3 of those characters might be considered "cartoonish." Similarly, Link has a bit more of an anime style than Snake, but their proportions are still similar. I think the textures and shading also help to mask the differences in style.
I mean, you can already see them standing together in screenshots. It doesn't look weird to me, at least, no weirder than Melee, and no weirder than it should. Does it look that weird to you?
Post by: Ceric on July 09, 2007, 07:11:30 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 09:08:51 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 09, 2007, 09:50:04 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 09:52:18 AM
Post by: Crimm on July 09, 2007, 10:58:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
So if it isn't that hard, why complain?
I have no beef with the change, but the "Hee ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya!" was intolerable.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:07:52 AM
Characters such as kirby with never ending combo punches come to mind and as a general rule of thumb I HATE automated combat features in fighting games.
It'll be very annoying getting boxed into a corner when those repeated combo hits just keep on coming and your shield starts to go away and this time the person delivering the hits won't accidently miss a press and stop the barrage of punches since well all they need to do is hold down a button.
Sorry that was an awful run on sentence.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 11:10:02 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2007, 11:10:38 AM
It is much the same charm that Kingdom Hearts has. You are able to visit the worlds of every Nintendo game, with any of your favorite Nintendo characters.
And for all the fears that the games won't graphically go together so far there is nothing that indicates that will happen. It is actually Melee that proves otherwise that the level designs straight from the games, and character models straight from the games do blend well together. Even if it is still surreal to be fighting Pikachu with Link.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 11:12:38 AM
Post by: Pale on July 09, 2007, 11:30:37 AM
Holding the button down won't make any difference there, as the time of the combo will still be identical.
This isn't even close to the same thing as the C-Stick.
If this were Street Fighter 2, this change would be like using a turbo button.
In Street Fighter two the C-Stick would be the equivalent of having a macro button the has all of the special moves programmed into it.
Post by: King of Twitch on July 09, 2007, 02:16:44 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 02:26:58 PM
Post by: Pale on July 09, 2007, 04:34:01 PM
There is nothing more frustrating than to be leaving a rookie alone in a 4 player match only to lose track of them and have them c-stick you to your death after a heated battle with a competent player.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 04:44:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
I disagree completely Kairon. A smash attack is an advanced enough maneuver that first time players should not be able to do it until they learn a little bit.
There is nothing more frustrating than to be leaving a rookie alone in a 4 player match only to lose track of them and have them c-stick you to your death after a heated battle with a competent player.
That's awesome. It makes for an encouraged rookie, and an expert who'll hopefully learn that in Smash, even rookies can't be written off.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 04:49:58 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 09, 2007, 05:24:36 PM
Quote
pap64 wrote:
What I mean is that characters like Wario, Mario, Kirby and Pikachu will look WEIRD standing next to characters like Samus, Snake, Link and Zelda, who are far more realistically designed than in the last SSB games.
Kind of. I get what you're saying. All they've really done, though, is make the colors darker. Smash has always looked weird when you consider that none of these characters really fit into each other's worlds. My guess is that none of us will even notice the second we witness, controllers in hand, Snake punching Pikachu in the face..... repeatedly.
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 05:50:46 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 05:57:31 PM
God I hope not. It didn't seem like it in the videos. Melees' pace was fine IMHO.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2007, 05:57:41 PM
Almost everything I have read on Brawl has been a change for the better. Sakurai is really working on making his opus, and since this might be the final Smash game he is involved in...and therefore possibly the last Brawl game ever it is great that he is really perfecting it.
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 06:09:19 PM
It better have online because honestly, so long as it does, the game will become timeless and probably be played years after Nintendos NEXT system comes out. I know I still love melee with friends =)
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 09, 2007, 06:15:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
A smash attack is an advanced enough maneuver that first time players should not be able to do it until they learn a little bit.
Uh... What? Myself, and everyone I know, could perform a smash attack easily after being told how to do one.
Post by: Requiem on July 09, 2007, 07:19:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 08:12:31 PM
Post by: The Traveller on July 09, 2007, 08:13:11 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 09, 2007, 08:13:44 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 09, 2007, 08:15:41 PM
Post by: The Traveller on July 09, 2007, 08:26:45 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 09, 2007, 09:25:56 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 10, 2007, 01:39:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Combos (at least the kind that this latest blog post is referring to) never had anything to do with rhythm anyway. You just tapped the button as fast as possible.
Holding the button down won't make any difference there, as the time of the combo will still be identical.
This isn't even close to the same thing as the C-Stick.
If this were Street Fighter 2, this change would be like using a turbo button.
In Street Fighter two the C-Stick would be the equivalent of having a macro button the has all of the special moves programmed into it.
I know I'm in the minority here but I was really hoping that they would go "rhythm" based this time.
It be super weird for him to be playable. Especially with the ability to summon skyscrapers.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 10, 2007, 01:51:05 AM
As for Dr. Wright, he is the bomb. An awesome inclusion and is totally obscure. Way to go.
Post by: Ceric on July 10, 2007, 02:20:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Rhythm based would be cool, but hard to teach...and also could be frustrating when you start a attacking and two other players go after you. You really need that quickness and simplicity so you can think more about how to attack and maneuver around 3 players instead of just one.
As for Dr. Wright, he is the bomb. An awesome inclusion and is totally obscure. Way to go.
I like it like PSO. Where it would be sort of timed. In other words you could keep during your "weak" attack as fast as you please but if you won't to pull of a meaningful combo than you need to learn the rhythm. For example Mario might be short long short short. Which could be the equivalent to: Fast animated attack, longer reach more powerful punch attack, kick, finisher. If you didn't want a piece you just mess up the pattern. Everyone would probably be short first just because fast attacks are more useful for hits. It would coincide with the animations. So there isn't such a disjoint and penalty for not synchronizing with your character.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 10, 2007, 06:01:52 AM
Majora Moon - Slowly crashes down onto the playing field, crushing everyone in its wake...
Koopa Clown Car - Flies by and tips over, dumping out Mecha-Koopas that'll walk around until they are destroyed...
Ridley - No-brainer (Personally I'd rather have him playable, but I have a feeling he'll pop up here instead)...
Goomba - Think of it as the Goldeen of Assist Trophies...
Marin - Sings "Ballad of the Wind Fish" to put characters to sleep (Please, oh please...I want a remix of the song so bad...)
Metroid - Flies around and attaches to nearest character, draining energy and slowing them down...
Viruses - Lines of Viruses fall from the sky and pile up...Can crush you and will block your path...
Bullet Bill - Think Unown, but coming in horizontally and with more explosive power...
Lakitu - Floats overhead, throwing Spiked Beetles onto players...
Earthbound UFOs - Do what UFOs do best...Zap things!
Poo - PK Starstorm
Professor Oak - Throws pokeballs, which will capture players inside them for a few seconds, giving time for the Assist Trophy user to grab them and throw them off the edge!
Mr. Resetti - Comes up and buries unsuspecting players with lots of text! (Ahaha, that'd be an amusing sight...)
Pikmin - No-brainer...Lots of tiny Pikmin attack players or slow them down...
Donkey Kong (Arcade Version) - Throws barrels across the stage...
Ray MK II - I'd rather him be playable, but an Assist Trophy would be fine...
Little Mac - I have a feeling he'll be playable, but this is just in case...
And for laughs:
Sheik - Ahaha, I don't know why, but I have this itching feeling that he'll be thrown here...Just imagine the angst that'd hit forums everywhere!
Post by: Sarail on July 10, 2007, 10:33:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Sheik - Ahaha, I don't know why, but I have this itching feeling that he'll be thrown here...Just imagine the angst that'd hit forums everywhere!
I personally think this will be the case also. Unless Sakurai decides to weaken a few of her attacks... AND slow her the heck down. Gah. o_O
Post by: Adrock on July 10, 2007, 08:05:10 PM
YES!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 10, 2007, 09:07:00 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 10, 2007, 11:43:09 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 10, 2007, 11:48:40 PM
jk =P
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 11, 2007, 02:25:57 AM
This item was 3 parts fun, evil, and useful. The return only means good things.
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2007, 02:50:28 AM
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2007, 10:07:46 AM
the earthbound UFOs should give characters colds then inflict small amounts of damage every few seconds until KOd
that's what they did best every the i encountered one... Lovable bow wearing bastards
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 11, 2007, 10:22:28 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 11, 2007, 10:28:39 AM
Post by: EasyCure on July 11, 2007, 01:38:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Good call...That reminds me: they need to bring in the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom as an item! Just as in the game, it'd make a mushroom grow out of your head and mix up your directions for a short period of time... =D
How about a Territorial Oak? looks innocent to any one that doesn't know what game its from then BAM it explodes into a burst of flames
Post by: Kairon on July 11, 2007, 01:42:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCureQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Good call...That reminds me: they need to bring in the Ramblin' Evil Mushroom as an item! Just as in the game, it'd make a mushroom grow out of your head and mix up your directions for a short period of time... =D
How about a Territorial Oak? looks innocent to any one that doesn't know what game its from then BAM it explodes into a burst of flames
*dorkgasm*
Post by: that Baby guy on July 11, 2007, 03:51:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 11, 2007, 03:57:59 PM
Post by: Shecky on July 11, 2007, 04:10:51 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 11, 2007, 05:06:31 PM
Post by: Sessha on July 11, 2007, 05:42:57 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 11, 2007, 06:25:24 PM
This update (likely because of E3) came earlier than it usually does. Maybe there's another scheduled update in a few hours. Probably not. They're both dated July 12.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 11, 2007, 09:14:53 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 11, 2007, 09:48:27 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 11, 2007, 11:34:36 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 12, 2007, 02:12:06 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 12, 2007, 02:16:17 AM
Anyone else thing TGS will be where Nintendo announces officially that the game will be online?
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 12, 2007, 02:28:38 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 12, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
When the bridge teleports in, I hope it falls down from the sky so anyone caught under it will be smacked down by it.
Post by: Ceric on July 12, 2007, 05:10:04 AM
Post by: couchmonkey on July 12, 2007, 05:13:16 AM
Since Bowser turns into Giga Bowser, DK should turn into KING KONG for his final Smash. Actually...he should just start randomly chucking unstoppable barrels, that would be sweet...
Post by: LuigiHann on July 12, 2007, 05:37:16 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2007, 06:13:16 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 12, 2007, 07:17:05 AM
Not sure if this has been posted yet or not...
Game looks goddamn gorgeous, but it is so OBVIOUSLY slower than Melee.
The game looks a great deal more "floaty", and movement is all around more sluggish.
I knew this was coming: if SSBB is to be online, they'd NEED to slow the game speed down for latency reasons. The "twitch" gameplay of Melee just wouldn't be possible online.
Post by: Requiem on July 12, 2007, 07:24:37 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 12, 2007, 07:27:08 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 12, 2007, 07:31:43 AM
Melee, on the other hand, required much better reflex and thus it wasn't as well received. It sucked because SSB was such a regular thing for us and Melee was the end of that regular thing.
I'm glad to see Brawl might go back to its roots.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 12, 2007, 07:33:55 AM
And I agree with SB, the game definitely looks to move slower than Melee.
Oh and Requiem...
ROSSDOWER!
Post by: Mashiro on July 12, 2007, 07:43:28 AM
The speed does seem slightly slower than SSBM but as long as it's not too slow it should still be a pretty intense game.
Post by: Requiem on July 12, 2007, 07:55:47 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 12, 2007, 08:04:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Meh, SSB64 was about throwing people and nothing more,
Actually, the game was the about forcing people over the edge and then preventing them from returning.
Any player who tried to just throw people in my circle of SSB64 players would get their sh*t wrecked.
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 12, 2007, 11:05:47 AM
My friends and I are totally the opposite, Smash Brother, at least in SSBM. When we knock someone off, we look down on people who "edge guard" and knock them straight off again. We think it's cheap, and shows a lack of skill and sportsmanship. Not to suggest we can't get around it; playing as Marth I have a foolproof way of getting back onto the stage. But it's less exciting, I always thought. We agreed to start edge guarding once we get a person up to about 90% damage, but even then I hardly do.
Game is looking fantastic, though. I love these updates, and I'm getting quite psyched.
Post by: Mashiro on July 12, 2007, 11:13:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Meh, SSB64 was about throwing people and nothing more,
Actually, the game was the about forcing people over the edge and then preventing them from returning.
Any player who tried to just throw people in my circle of SSB64 players would get their sh*t wrecked.
Pikachu back throw.
Most powerful throw in the game so anyone with some damage on them could easily be flung clear of the stage.
It just destroyed all.
SSBM > SSB64
Post by: Kraven on July 12, 2007, 11:28:42 AM
Post by: IceCold on July 12, 2007, 03:12:51 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 12, 2007, 03:24:40 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 12, 2007, 03:34:04 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 12, 2007, 08:08:59 PM
Of course, Smashville looks like a nice level. My guess: Nook will be revealed at E3 sometime today.
Edit: Never-mind. Nook is in the background of the level. Maybe his niece and nephew are a combo team like the Ice Climbers.
Post by: Mikintosh on July 12, 2007, 08:19:46 PM
How about Befuddled Museum Owl? I'd pay a surtax on my copy of Brawl just to see this happen.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 12, 2007, 08:23:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 12, 2007, 08:25:20 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 12, 2007, 08:31:20 PM
The more creative stages are likely never going to be revealed on the site which is fine by me. I'd love to be blown away when I finally boot up the game on December 3rd.
Post by: Mashiro on July 12, 2007, 08:35:46 PM
Every little bit of detail is just whimsically beautiful. 8 pm Saturday concert? I'll be there!!
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2007, 09:16:17 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 12, 2007, 10:27:44 PM
I just noticed that the top platform in the stage moves left and right. Look at the screens.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 12, 2007, 10:52:35 PM
I also think there will be some obstructions that they just aren't showing...
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2007, 01:52:20 AM
Maybe also change with the seasons as well.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2007, 02:35:45 AM
I hope it does change for seasons, and can you imagine if they tie a hidden character to playing on this stage on a certain day. (Christmas would be awesome...or is that Toy Day in Animal Crossing...that would be cool.)
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 13, 2007, 03:04:00 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 13, 2007, 04:41:26 AM
Post by: Kenology on July 13, 2007, 04:42:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I absolutely, positively adore all the people working on this title.
Every little bit of detail is just whimsically beautiful. 8 pm Saturday concert? I'll be there!!
Cosign! They're really putting so much effort into this!
And the concert @ 8p on Saturdays = AWESOME!
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 05:03:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Pikachu back throw.
This is SSB, not rocket science.
1. Hold Z and hit left/right to roll out of the way of Pikachu when he tries to grab you, then retaliate.
2. Jump. He can't grab you if you're in the air.
3. Hit him with something BEFORE he grabs you!
My friends and I played SSB64 for at least 500 hours (according to our cartridge log). Guess what? If throws were the solve all, end all of the game, we would have figured it out and used them to no end.
However, there's a very simple fact you're overlooking here: throws require you to be close enough to your opponent to grab, and seasoned veteran SSB players are dangerous to get close to. If you and your friends were stymied by the inclusion of throws in the game and couldn't find a counter tactic, then I've no other explanation other than that you weren't very good at the game or you didn't give it a fair shake and simply gave up on it.
Actually, it sounds to me like you faced a Pikachu player who WTFPWNED the hell out of you and your only recourse was to dismiss the entire game.
As for the level, I'm probably being very wishful here, but you'll note that Mr. Sonny Resetti appears nowhere in the background...
And as to whether or not there will be a stage without a corresponding character, though I'd like to say no, this is the last SSB game Sakurai said he'd do so I think it's anyone's guess.
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2007, 05:20:04 AM
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 05:43:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
2. Jump. He can't grab you if you're in the air.
Hopefully in Brawl, Sakurai is going to allow us to do air throws. That'd give us a total of 8 different throws to work with this time around. I'm all for it!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 06:40:39 AM
Ahaha, right now I picture some player jumping into the air going "Nyah, nyah, you can't grab me!" before getting THUNDER'd off the map...
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 06:51:30 AM
Also, this character gave me a bit of a scare:
However, someone on another forum pointed out that this is Sow Joan.
Resetti is still noticeably absent.
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 08:13:48 AM
I can't wait for Brawl!
Post by: Grant10k on July 13, 2007, 08:33:44 AM
They could simply delete the character from the background if you happen to be that character. Or just populate the background at random with characters you didn't select (a la Wii Sports). They probably wander around anyway, treating the battle like an event that happens to be going on in their town.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 13, 2007, 08:43:30 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 13, 2007, 08:46:30 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 08:46:36 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 08:50:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Pikachu back throw.
This is SSB, not rocket science.
1. Hold Z and hit left/right to roll out of the way of Pikachu when he tries to grab you, then retaliate.
2. Jump. He can't grab you if you're in the air.
3. Hit him with something BEFORE he grabs you!
My friends and I played SSB64 for at least 500 hours (according to our cartridge log). Guess what? If throws were the solve all, end all of the game, we would have figured it out and used them to no end.
However, there's a very simple fact you're overlooking here: throws require you to be close enough to your opponent to grab, and seasoned veteran SSB players are dangerous to get close to. If you and your friends were stymied by the inclusion of throws in the game and couldn't find a counter tactic, then I've no other explanation other than that you weren't very good at the game or you didn't give it a fair shake and simply gave up on it.
Actually, it sounds to me like you faced a Pikachu player who WTFPWNED the hell out of you and your only recourse was to dismiss the entire game.
As for the level, I'm probably being very wishful here, but you'll note that Mr. Sonny Resetti appears nowhere in the background...
And as to whether or not there will be a stage without a corresponding character, though I'd like to say no, this is the last SSB game Sakurai said he'd do so I think it's anyone's guess.
Actually no I just "WTFPWNED" WITH Pikcahu against anyone I came across. It wasn't much of a challenge and I don't think SSB64 was balanced enough to warrant the level of praise you are giving it.
Melee on the other hand was a much more skillful based game and the battles are far more enjoyable.
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 08:58:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I can't believe that anyone prefers SSB64 to Melee, I think the latter is uncomparably better. The first one set a foundation, the second one improved significantly upon it. I love the fast pace of Melee. I always felt like I was moving through molasses in SSB64, SSBM is such a relief in comparison. I guess a compromise wouldn't be bad, but I'd prefer keeping the speed of Melee. It's much more fun.
Whoa, man. I didn't say I prefer SSB over SSBM. I said I prefer how it feels over SSBM. Totally different concept. I love Melee more for the simple fact that it oozes with TONS of crap that brings a smile to my face. But SSB definitely plays and feels better. Melee is way too fast.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:00:46 AM
Edit: This game better have online >=) NWR SSBB Tournament!
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 09:04:00 AM
But man, I love my Ice Climbers.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:05:15 AM
I hope this version of Link is just as good in Brawl.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 09:06:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro Actually no I just "WTFPWNED" WITH Pikcahu against anyone I came across. It wasn't much of a challenge
Then you didn't fight any decent players and ergo have not had adequate experience with the game to be making comparisons.
Quote
and I don't think SSB64 was balanced enough to warrant the level of praise you are giving it.
Kirby and Ness were top tier (which is why they were nerfed like crazy in SSBM), but the slower speed ensured that more people in my circle enjoyed playing it, including those who couldn't keep up with Melee's speed and thus opted to not play it.
I'm not worried, though, as SSBB is quite clearly slower than Melee.
Quote
Melee on the other hand was a much more skillful based game and the battles are far more enjoyable.
Everything in the above statement is subjective, except that Melee is balanced: it isn't. The tiers in Melee totally and completely favor the fastest characters, with Fox and Falco being top tier. Neither game was balanced, but SSB64's more paced speed made it a far better choice when it came to enticing newer players, and I've no doubt that Nintendo understands this concept when it comes to Brawl (one of the reasons the game is slower).
Also, Sakurai has already said that Brawl will take steps to alleviate the balance issues, even suggesting that it "will be created with balance in mind".
Melee was a rush-job and it clearly shows. Had it experienced adequate playtesting, they would have realized that the fastest characters are unstoppable in the hands of a skilled player.
Though I love Bowser, I'm not exactly holding my breath when they suggest that he won't suck as badly in Brawl, but I at least hope that the top tier isn't completely dominated by the fastest characters in the game again.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:09:19 AM
You can talk all the smack you want and so can I but it'll be just endless repetitive garbage. You've never seen me play and I've never seen you play.
We can settle this online in december =P
Edit: Just because characters are top tier it doesn't mean they are the only way to win.
And yes I agree a slower speed entices more people. Either way I don't mind about the speed I just highly preferred Melee over 64 but I enjoyed each at the times they were played.
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 09:12:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
=) I was Pikachu all the time in SSB64 then I made the switch to Link in Melee as he wasn't as gimped as in 64.
I hope this version of Link is just as good in Brawl.
See, I thought Link was gimped in Melee and not the original. His back and forward airs landed for better damage and impact, and his bombs were a heck of a lot more explosive. I honestly thought he was more of a wuss in Melee. o_O
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2007, 09:12:51 AM
Now can we stop polluting this thread. We have 3 other super huge threads about this issue.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 09:16:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro<
Edit: Just because characters are top tier it doesn't mean they are the only way to win.
Of course not, but the very existence of tiers negates the idea that the game is balanced. Melee was rushed and there are a lot of places where it shows. Balance was one of them.
And quite frankly, no. I expect that, come Dec, people who get their asses stomped online are going to complain that SSBB is "too much like the first one and not like the vastly-superior Melee" and that they would have won "if we were playing Melee".
Sorry to be prophetic here, but this is exactly the kind of thing I expect will be said, a lot.
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
See, I thought Link was gimped in Melee and not the original. His back and forward airs landed for better damage and impact, and his bombs were a heck of a lot more explosive. I honestly thought he was more of a wuss in Melee. o_O
I agree.
Link's recovery may have sucked in 64 (which is why we wound up calling him "No-recovery Link), but he was far more of a killing powerhouse. In Melee, his best killing move is either the downward stab or the up+B, especially in a crowded stage.
A lot of the moves in Melee also felt too similar to other moves, like a lot of the neutral air As, for example. I hope Brawl fixes that and adds more variety. I'd rather have 20 characters who are balanced and unique than 50 which clearly overlap in many moves.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:16:19 AM
Edit: Yeah but even games likes Soul Calibur have top tier characters in fact almost all fighting games do. It's just the nature of the games. Though I never find myself as one of the top tier I still hold my own in most circles. It comes down to the persons play style in the end and what they are comfortable with.
Also about people complaining online let em, who cares, I just want to be online to get freaking better at the game. I love competition and love improving upon my weak points. That's what makes the game fun!
Post by: Sarail on July 13, 2007, 09:18:37 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 09:23:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro I love competition and love improving upon my weak points. That's what makes the game fun!
That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to online: the idea that I could have a skilled opponent at any time makes me salivate.
Also, if they can only manage 1v1 online play, I'll be FINE with it because that will force them to balance 1v1 fights, which means people can't make the excuse of "Bowser sucks because the game is balanced for 4 players" (which isn't true, by the way).
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:30:39 AM
Those are my all time favorite fights =D
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 09:34:03 AM
On rare occasion, a friend from Montreal comes down to visit who's the only person I know who's a real match for me and I love dueling with him and can spend many hours doing so.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 09:34:55 AM
I really hope this game is online I would like to fight you =)
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 13, 2007, 09:45:30 AM
Quote
Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?
Those are my all time favorite fights =D
Absolutely. Some of my best video game memories are from playing SSBM with my friend murk (me as Marth, him as Fox), one on one on final destination, items turned off. Five or ten lives. Sometimes just one. Those were incredible, some of the most intense and satisfying challenges I've faced in a video game.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 13, 2007, 10:02:04 AM
On the issue of playable I'm going to guess that Tom Nook will be the character. Even though he's a part of the stage, everyone has to remember that the Tom Nook in the background looks the exact same as he does in the Animal Crossing games. If he was playable he'd be given a design change and a huge graphical upgrade over the one we see in the background.
Which means it doesn't matter if he's already part of the stage since a playable Tom Nook would look a lot different anyway.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 10:05:28 AM
And damn all this 1v1 melee talk, I wanna play again but no one is around ::tears::.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 10:09:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?
Those are my all time favorite fights =D
Post by: Adrock on July 13, 2007, 10:20:43 AM
Quote
Smash_Brother wrote:
Link's recovery may have sucked in 64 (which is why we wound up calling him "No-recovery Link), but he was far more of a killing powerhouse. In Melee, his best killing move is either the downward stab or the up+B, especially in a crowded stage.
As a Link player, I didn't think he was gimped in Melee at all. They just changed the way he plays. Link was still a great character to use, granted you knew how to use him. The only changes I object to were his boomerang was pathetically weak (almost to the point of worthlessness), the hookshot throw does practically nothing while also being slow (though the whole game deemphasized throws) and the spin attack was ungodly cheap. Link's arrows were also pretty lame. Considering how slow and weak they were, I wonder how Pit's are going to work. They gave him swords, but Pit's primary weapon was his bow.
Anyway, I thought jumping in SSB64 was too floaty, it was like they were in space. I was fine with the speed in Melee, but I wouldn't mind if they slowed it down by 10%-15%, especially if it balances out the game.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 10:24:26 AM
His arrows looked pretty fast in the trailer...
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 10:57:21 AM
I honestly prefer the 64 Link, but just because he was so deadly in the proper hands.
As for online, I look forward to tons of online matches with the folks here. I like to think that I've done a decent job honing my skills with the opponents I've been given, but who knows? Maybe I'm crap and I just don't know it and the name "Smash_Brother" speaks only for my love of the game and not my skills.
As for the prediction, all of the stages under the level section are marked with the icons indicative of their characters, the battlefield stage has a plain old smash logo adjacent to it, but the AC level is indicated by the trademark AC leaf icon (which I actually predicted would be the case for an AC character).
I think this is Sakurai's subtle hint of what we can expect to see in the game. I don't believe they'd include a stage without a corresponding character, but I think they're trying to make us second guess ourselves on that.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 11:12:42 AM
And hey don't worry I like to think I've done a good job too with becoming awesome with Link in Melee but if there is one thing I've learned, just like with everything else in life, there will always be someone out there better than you.
As long as I have good close battles I'm happy, win or lose ^^
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 13, 2007, 11:21:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Smash Brother do you also enjoy 1v1 fights on stages like final destination with no items?
Those are my all time favorite fights =D
Mashiro you just named the only way to play Melee. That's what it's all about. I usually play as Ganondorf and my good friend plays as Sheik, we have some very insane battles on that turf. It's too bad I lose most of the time because Sheik dominates in Melee. Speed > Strength
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 11:24:59 AM
I smell a NWR Super Smash Bros. Brawl team! We shall roam across the lands, 1v1'ing our way through all the tournament brackets and slowly but surely we will become the most powerful force in all the world!!! . . . OF SMASH BROS.... YEAH!!!!
Sorry . . . a little too excited on that one >.>;
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2007, 11:40:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I found Link far more accessible in Melee and it just fit how I liked to play. Everyone has their own play style =) that's why I love fighting games it's great to see how others use X character and what they can do with him/her.
Edit: Yeah but even games likes Soul Calibur have top tier characters in fact almost all fighting games do. It's just the nature of the games. Though I never find myself as one of the top tier I still hold my own in most circles. It comes down to the persons play style in the end and what they are comfortable with.
Also about people complaining online let em, who cares, I just want to be online to get freaking better at the game. I love competition and love improving upon my weak points. That's what makes the game fun!
Oh lord that reminds me of Roll users in MvC2 I believe it was. She took more damage then the other characters from what I could figure. I never won a fight with her. But someone who specialized with her you blink you be gone. I could never figure it out...
I sure hope they can include stages without characters. I know their are a few games I wouldn't mind stages from but I don't think I want a character for and vice versa. (Ex. Strider, I love for him to somehow make it into the game but I don't want a neo-communist stage. I like an Excite Truck stage if possible with varying terrain but come on what would be the character a truck?)
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 12:20:46 PM
Post by: Requiem on July 13, 2007, 12:23:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
So many people enjoy that stage and battle style as much as I do ::tears brought to eyes::
I smell a NWR Super Smash Bros. Brawl team! We shall roam across the lands, 1v1'ing our way through all the tournament brackets and slowly but surely we will become the most powerful force in all the world!!! . . . OF SMASH BROS.... YEAH!!!!
Sorry . . . a little too excited on that one >.>;
Dude I play the same way! I also like Starfox's stage (the ship longways). That's a great level, especially if your using Link (using his hookshot in the air has saved my life many-a-time).
I use to play with Roy, until I could never be beaten :P. He is too powerful when you master his parry move. His smash is too devastating and he can juggle really well too.
I play as Link now and I feel like I am more vulnerable, but that's a good thing. My friend and I (who plays as the Ice Climbers) have some crazy battles as well. I remember at one time we were playing for what seemed like our lives it was so intense ($50 heads-up can do that), and each of us not being able to hit the other for AT LEAST 5 minutes. We were dodging like crazy! Seriously.....it was better than the Matrix. If you watched this, you'd be like WTF is the Matrix? By the end of that 7 stock match, my hands were twitching with adrenaline. I nearly shat myself with excitement.
They really need to add the ability to save a match. And character entrances.
And oh ya, I always bet on my games. ALWAYS. It not only makes it more intense (especially $50 heads-up), but I'm $300 up!
Also, S_B I own as Link in SSB64, even though he's like the worst character.
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 12:30:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Augh, go play a real fighting game you silly people, if 1 on 1, boring, non-item fights is what you want...
=P
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 13, 2007, 01:42:46 PM
Post by: stevey on July 13, 2007, 01:47:24 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 13, 2007, 02:01:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
I with bill, 1 on 1 with no items is boring. The only real way to play is 4v4 with Items on high!
I don't disagree that 4 player melee with items is fun, it's just not competitive enough. It's always a blast but when you want to get serious and compete, it's all about Final Destination 1 on 1 no items.
Post by: decoyman on July 13, 2007, 02:57:15 PM
I feel like Pikachu was gimped somewhat in Melee (if I was quick enough in SSB, I could get back from nearly anywhere, so long as my momentum didn't take me off the board before I could regain control – he used to be able to do THREE little Up+B bursts if you were quick enough... THREE!). But I've learned to accept and adapt to his new strengths and weaknesses (charged lightning headbutt FTW!).
Definitely looking forward to playing against you folks here.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 03:04:12 PM
But I love both. I love the Brawls, but I love the duels as well. It's just two facets of a game I very much enjoy overall.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2007, 03:07:11 PM
I figure that every time we say it, the gods of cruelty and irony push Sakurai one step closer to axing online play. Seriously, the more we enjoy the prospect of it, the more likely it'll be "cut for time".
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 03:11:53 PM
Hell if Atari can freaking do it with DBZ on Wii I would hope to god they could do it in Brawl.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 03:15:20 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
Also for Nintendo to say it was (well planning on) Launching Brawl at the Wii's launch while being online it means that they definitely want the game online so I am going to assume it'll make it in.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 13, 2007, 03:49:01 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 03:53:43 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 13, 2007, 04:06:57 PM
Post by: decoyman on July 13, 2007, 04:09:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And we need to knock it off the "I can't wait to play you guys online!" stuff, badly.
I figure that every time we say it, the gods of cruelty and irony push Sakurai one step closer to axing online play. Seriously, the more we enjoy the prospect of it, the more likely it'll be "cut for time".
Quick, everybody knock on wood! That should counteract any negative energy our online enthusiasm has built up.
Post by: stevey on July 13, 2007, 04:11:01 PM
I figure that every time we say it, the gods of cruelty and irony push Sakurai one step closer to axing online play. Seriously, the more we enjoy the prospect of it, the more likely it'll be "cut for time"."
Quote
Will the game take advantage of WiFi connection? Will it be online?
Sakurai: My plan is to include WiFi and online functionality. Actually one of the reasons it was created was that the staff said that when the console went online, the first game should be SSB. I'm going to try very hard to do that. But, I think it may be a lot of work to come up with a system with 4 players simultaneously and figuring out who's first, but we may look at other ways of bringing 4 people together.
It was made for online. And on the old blog, Sakurai already stated they got 2 play running online and working to get a lag free 4 player in.
Edit: while looking for Sakurai quote on 2 player I found this old rumor that turned out to be true-ish...
Quote
A Japanese blog run by a programmer on Super Smash Bros. Brawl (yes, that really is the story!) has leaked some info concerning gameplay. First up, we can expect destructable environments such as crumbling terrain. Second, apparently there will be a lot of character customization relating to moves, costumes, speed, and power.
The Bridge of Eldin already confirms the first part of the rumor so could customizable character also be true?
Post by: Adrock on July 13, 2007, 04:54:49 PM
Quote
The Bridge of Eldin already confirms the first part of the rumor so could customizable character also be true?
Pit's Angel Land stage shown in the Nintendo World trailer confirmed destructible environments too. That still seems like a lucky guess though. Really, one could argue that the Dream Land Green Greens or Zebes Brinstar stages from Melee were destructible.
Costumes seem possible (I'd be surprised if they didn't make it). The other stuff, though, is stretching.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 13, 2007, 05:04:14 PM
Quote
character customization relating to moves
This could conceivably be refering to the control customization that was mentioned a while back.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 05:15:17 PM
It was in Melee...Remember that you could unhook the platforms in the Brinstar stage? =\
Post by: Adrock on July 13, 2007, 05:41:25 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 13, 2007, 06:09:29 PM
Also, I hope each character has multiple different costumes, not just the recolors. Maybe even some unlockable costumes. At the very least, Wario needs to have his classic outfit as an option. And I wouldn't mind seeing Link's alternate armor from TP, or a subtle alternate costume that's basically an updated version of his OoT look.
Post by: EasyCure on July 13, 2007, 06:56:45 PM
it would be convenient to just pick my name from the list and have the character change accordingly.
it might not seem that important but i was very picky about the colors of the characters i used for a few reasons. One being that in a stage like the Great Temple, when the camera pans out to its max, it's hard for me to see where i am if i'm in the bottom parts of the level if the characters color was too dark.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 13, 2007, 06:57:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I already mentioned that.........
Oh whoops, I have a bad habit of wanting to post before finishing reading a post... ^_^,
Post by: TEM on July 13, 2007, 07:47:20 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 13, 2007, 08:31:12 PM
Oh and you're not allowed to have images in you sig. Just a heads up.
Mon Edit: Prediction for the update coming in a few hours: Musical Piece preview.
Post by: Mashiro on July 15, 2007, 08:11:44 PM
Star Fox: Space Armada.
Edit: Nice remix! I hope they release an OST for this game.
Prediction for tomorrows update: character that was in melee being shown off for the first time in Brawl. I'm gonna go with Princess Peach.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 15, 2007, 08:25:39 PM
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 15, 2007, 09:16:04 PM
Quote
Prediction for tomorrows update: character that was in melee being shown off for the first time in Brawl. I'm gonna go with Princess Peach.
Nah, We're getting an item tomorrow.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 15, 2007, 09:19:09 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 15, 2007, 09:34:02 PM
Post by: TEM on July 16, 2007, 01:15:35 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 16, 2007, 01:28:08 PM
Have I mentioned yet how appropriate it would be to have Kirby's theme played by an Oompah band as a polka?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 16, 2007, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 16, 2007, 01:36:16 PM
My new favorite program: Game Music Box. I'm listening to the Super Mario RPG soundtrack as we speak (the original src/rsn files). <3
Post by: mantidor on July 16, 2007, 02:12:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I should go around beating up people who think midi music is a bad thing...
This song sounded great for midi.
Orchestrated would sound much, much better.
Post by: Mashiro on July 16, 2007, 02:17:25 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 16, 2007, 02:45:14 PM
Post by: Shecky on July 16, 2007, 02:49:00 PM
However, SSMB being a fighting game wouldn't likely have much use for that feature.
Midi tunes can sound as good as the real thing too depending on the quality of the synth and samples
Post by: Mashiro on July 16, 2007, 02:54:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Shecky
However, SSMB being a fighting game wouldn't likely have much use for that feature.
Super Smash Melee Brawl! Only for Nintendo Wii 2
Post by: mantidor on July 16, 2007, 04:09:08 PM
Post by: Crimm on July 16, 2007, 05:03:08 PM
True recorded dynamic music is pretty close to impossible, unless you feel like recording a transition at every note.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 16, 2007, 05:28:51 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 16, 2007, 06:17:19 PM
Post by: Crimm on July 16, 2007, 06:31:49 PM
* And the word "armada" refers to a large fleet of ships, of course. Though I always chuckle when I hear it because it sounds like my colleague’s name, Mr. Amada.
* That’s right, a live performance. It’s a good time to be alive...
* Ahh... That really takes me back.
* Run! It’s King Bulblin and Lord Bullbo!
* He just cuts, cuts, cuts away with the blade at his hip.
* Goldeen, Goldeen, Goldeen, Goldeen, Goldeen…
* I-I… I want it!
Post by: IceCold on July 16, 2007, 06:54:55 PM
Quote
Hee ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya ya!
This guy needs to calm down.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 16, 2007, 08:21:13 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 16, 2007, 09:20:32 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2007, 02:09:16 AM
Post by: Pale on July 17, 2007, 02:14:12 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2007, 02:17:39 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 02:51:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I always liked Dragonite best but I could easily see how Deoxys could have a good set of moves and gameplay styles.
? You realize he's not playable right?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 17, 2007, 04:03:31 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 04:08:13 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2007, 05:58:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I always liked Dragonite best but I could easily see how Deoxys could have a good set of moves and gameplay styles.
? You realize he's not playable right?
"I saw it in my RSS feed and the first thing to come to mind is how good of playable character Deoxys could be. There goes that. Hyper-beam? I mean come on. I would have preferred Dragonite do that and Deoxys use his forms. "
The next was if he was a playable character.
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 06:27:35 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 17, 2007, 07:02:41 AM
The Deoxys update is cool, but I can't help but feel that these types of updates should be multiple, not once per day.
The way I see it, the updates are a lot like food in a restaurant. The small updates (like music, Pokemon, Assist trophies and such) are like the chips; they are delicious, but don't fill you up and leaves you wanting for more. The medium updates (veteran characters, the already known newcomers and stages) are like the appetizers; far more pleasing than chips, but you still want the main course. And finally, the big updates (new trailers, dates, brand new characters) are the main course; they are big, extremely appetizing and leaves you more than satisfied, but its a very rare thing and can't have it often.
...Damn, I'm hungry. I miss my job as a dishwasher. All that good food...
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 07:07:54 AM
I don't mind the on update a day thing . . . I just HATE no weekend updates.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 17, 2007, 08:03:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
The way I see it, the updates are a lot like food in a restaurant. The small updates (like music, Pokemon, Assist trophies and such) are like the chips; they are delicious, but don't fill you up and leaves you wanting for more.
This is the part where I sarcastically point out that that's the whole point.
Quote
...Damn, I'm hungry. I miss my job as a dishwasher. All that good food...
And this is the part where I get really grossed out.
Post by: Adrock on July 17, 2007, 08:30:39 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 17, 2007, 09:22:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
The way I see it, the updates are a lot like food in a restaurant. The small updates (like music, Pokemon, Assist trophies and such) are like the chips; they are delicious, but don't fill you up and leaves you wanting for more.
This is the part where I sarcastically point out that that's the whole point.Quote
...Damn, I'm hungry. I miss my job as a dishwasher. All that good food...
And this is the part where I get really grossed out.
The thing is that if they are planning on talking about every single thing in Brawl they will never run out of updates.
Let's say that there are 40 assist trophies total. That's 40 updates right there. Now lets say that there are 30 playable characters in the game. If each character gets 3 updates (character, special moves and final smash) that means that there are 90 updates right there. If there are more than 10 stages, there will be 10 updates about them. The list goes on.
There's no point on rationing the updates since the game will be big enough that even when they reveal all the secrets they will still be stuff to talk about.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 17, 2007, 09:25:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
After how horrible he turned out to be in PKMN Diamond / Pear he doesn't deserve to be a playable character =P
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 17, 2007, 09:47:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Seems like a giant waste of time and money when midi sounds just as good these days...
Anybody who honestly thinks midi sounds as good as a real, live orchestra needs to listen to more music. Midi will never sound as good as the real thing. And all this midi crap is disappointing, especially when Sakurai said that the entire soundtrack would be orchestrated.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 17, 2007, 09:55:31 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 10:08:25 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 17, 2007, 10:52:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Anybody who honestly thinks midi sounds as good as a real, live orchestra needs to listen to more music.
I have, one example of which is the Wind Waker soundtrack, which still has people denying the fact that it's 100% midi...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 17, 2007, 11:31:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
Hating midi because of bad FM synthesis is like hating sheet music because of bad kazoo playing. It's just an interface protocol.
Just because I'm saying that midi can't ever be as good as an orchestra (because it can't) doesn't mean I hate midi.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 17, 2007, 11:41:10 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 17, 2007, 11:42:02 AM
Post by: TEM on July 17, 2007, 04:30:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk TemporoQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Seems like a giant waste of time and money when midi sounds just as good these days...
Anybody who honestly thinks midi sounds as good as a real, live orchestra needs to listen to more music. Midi will never sound as good as the real thing. And all this midi crap is disappointing, especially when Sakurai said that the entire soundtrack would be orchestrated.
You are my new best friend.
Post by: Requiem on July 17, 2007, 05:29:12 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 17, 2007, 08:05:46 PM
Kinda weird. Though thinking about it in the first trailer ever for the game she does use her final smash and then we see Zero Suit Samus.
Very interesting.
Edit: oh and the blast looks freaking awesome.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 17, 2007, 08:11:53 PM
Samus Final Smash causes her to transform into Zero Suit Samus.
Post by: Adrock on July 17, 2007, 08:26:57 PM
However...
If you can select Samus and hold A before the match to transform into ZSS (like the Sheik "trick" in Melee), that'd be fine with me... granted, you likely couldn't transform back into regular Samus. I think that's a fair compromise though Zero Suit Samus probably doesn't have a Final Smash. They could have the "death" animation (you know when Samus dies and her suit explodes off as she arches her back) before the match which would be so cool.
Post by: Arbok on July 17, 2007, 08:55:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
What many of us have been saying since last year has now been officially confirmed.
Samus Final Smash causes her to transform into Zero Suit Samus.
Yep. I'm not surprised at all... although I love the fact that you can throw pieces of her suit that fell off. I do wonder how this impacts the rest of the match. Like if she will only stay in the Zero Suit until the next life is lost, or if the change stays for the rest of the match.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 17, 2007, 09:06:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Though hardly a surprise, I was still hoping Sakurai and co would change their minds and make ZSS selectable. Samus' Final Smash could've easily been the hyper beam or power bomb. Not as flashy, but I'd rather have a whole extra selectable character.
However...
If you can select Samus and hold A before the match to transform into ZSS (like the Sheik "trick" in Melee), that'd be fine with me... granted, you likely couldn't transform back into regular Samus. I think that's a fair compromise though Zero Suit Samus probably doesn't have a Final Smash. They could have the "death" animation (you know when Samus dies and her suit explodes off as she arches her back) before the match which would be so cool.
why would ZSS not have a FSA? What if one were to get a Smash Ball while playing as ZSS (assuming of course my personal theory of how the Smash Ball works is correct)? I think that ZSS's FSA will in fact change her back into Armored Samus. My guess is that ZSS's FSA will be the Crystal Flash from Super Metroid which will reform the suite on her.
Post by: Arbok on July 17, 2007, 09:17:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
why would ZSS not have a FSA?
"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed."
The site seems to indicate that Final Smashes can only be used once per character, so I would be surprised if Zero Suit Samus had her own Final Smash on top of Samus', but it's not impossible.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 17, 2007, 09:38:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
why would ZSS not have a FSA?
"The Final Smash is a secret skill that can be performed but once…and only after obtaining an item called the Smash Ball, which is a precious item, indeed."
The site seems to indicate that Final Smashes can only be used once per character, so I would be surprised if Zero Suit Samus had her own Final Smash on top of Samus', but it's not impossible.
That wording could also mean once per match, or once per Smash Ball pick up. I am inclined to believe that it is once per pick up. There is also the possibility that there is a way to start as ZSS, like Sheik in SSBM, in which case ZSS would still need an FSA.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 18, 2007, 02:21:29 AM
Perhaps after a certain amount of damage it can fall off as well. Or what if the player can taunt and remove the suit...basically shedding your suits protection, but allowing you to eliminate the damage you have received during the match...that would be pretty cool.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 18, 2007, 02:48:04 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 18, 2007, 02:52:36 AM
Post by: Sarail on July 18, 2007, 03:12:52 AM
Zero-Suit should have been a separate selectable character, AND Samus should have a different Final Smash, too.
Post by: Ceric on July 18, 2007, 03:15:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
Mario and Luigi should be a character... yes, together and have Bros. moves from Superstar Saga. The problem is trying to differentiate them if other players choose individual Mario and Luigi.
Lets take your idea and run with it. Why not just have two Players play Mario and Luigi on the same team allowing them to hop on each other and like to do Superstar moves?
To the Audio People: Yes Midi played by an electrical device, their for people who want to play it with real instruments, will never be as rich as a real live orchestrated performance. Though it can be much more dynamic in an interactive way. Though in all actuality this doesn't really get my goat or anything because I realize that. I believe it is important for the music to be interactive with the game and really complement it. High Quality Midi when done well will not degrade my game enjoyment.
Now why we're on the topic. What really annoys me is that everyone seems to be ok with mp3's. Come on... When I got my Audigy 2 it came with an Audio DVD. It was night and day. I really like Lossless music. Especially for instrumental music, read any non-electric instrument. Part of the reason I haven't jumped on the Digital music band wagon.
Now to wrap up with the update. Throwing the suit is great.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 18, 2007, 03:23:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
It's official. Samus is a broken character.
Zero-Suit should have been a separate selectable character, AND Samus should have a different Final Smash, too.
Totally not over-reacting...And God forbid there be more variety and unique characters...
Post by: Dasmos on July 18, 2007, 03:29:25 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 18, 2007, 04:25:58 AM
But we learned about Final Smashes even showing us several of them. Gave us 4 brand new characters, and showed us several of their actual moves. Even crazy stuff like Wario's Bike Special was hinted at.
Bill Aurion: I definitely like how they truly added something new to the game, and added to Samus' character. Which she really needed, because Samus was a pretty boring Smash character. Now this adds a little depth.
Unfortunately, I do not believe this totally answers are questions about Samus...we need more confirmations. Is this the only way to turn into Zero Suit Samus? Can you turn back to normal Samus? Is there away to star as Zero Suit Samus ect.
Post by: Ceric on July 18, 2007, 04:49:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock on Mario Galaxy Thread
...
Mario needs to don the Fire Flower suit...
...when he does his Final Smash
That would be great.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 18, 2007, 04:54:14 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 18, 2007, 05:03:27 AM
(Edit: Oh, you must be talking about her gun/sword thing...I dunno, didn't even notice that... =O)
Post by: Chasefox on July 18, 2007, 12:01:12 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 18, 2007, 08:12:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Chasefox
So most of the assist trophies and characters were at least trophies in the other game it seems, but how about something else...Wolf O'Donnell was in the opening movie to Melee, but not a trophy if I remember correctly...my brother and I want him to be in Brawl more than anyone else, think he has a chance as a trophy if not an actual character? (would prefer the playable character, obviously)
I don't think it's very likely. If anyone from the Star Fox franchise is going to be added in, I think Krystal is probably the most likely, due to the fact that there aren't many female characters to pick from and that she has enough powers/weapons to easily make a playable character of. It's not out of the question, though.
Anyway, site got updated with Zero Suit Samus, which only adds further support that Sheik is still a likely addition as part of Zelda in the future.
Post by: Sarail on July 18, 2007, 08:19:40 PM
Geez, why can't he just come out and say that she's a fully selectable playable character from the get-go? GRRRRR.
Post by: Mikintosh on July 18, 2007, 08:22:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Chasefox
So most of the assist trophies and characters were at least trophies in the other game it seems, but how about something else...Wolf O'Donnell was in the opening movie to Melee, but not a trophy if I remember correctly...my brother and I want him to be in Brawl more than anyone else, think he has a chance as a trophy if not an actual character? (would prefer the playable character, obviously)
I don't think it's very likely. If anyone from the Star Fox franchise is going to be added in, I think Krystal is probably the most likely, due to the fact that there aren't many female characters to pick from and that she has enough powers/weapons to easily make a playable character of. It's not out of the question, though.
Anyway, site got updated with Zero Suit Samus, which only adds further support that Sheik is still a likely addition as part of Zelda in the future.
Why? If anything, I'd think the opposite, since it looks like Zero Suit Samus controls exactly like Sheik, making the latter redundant.
Post by: Arbok on July 18, 2007, 08:31:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Why? If anything, I'd think the opposite, since it looks like Zero Suit Samus controls exactly like Sheik, making the latter redundant.
In the videos, she is noticeably slower than Sheik was for one thing, but really we know nothing about her moves except for her whip... that's hardly enough to say that she's going to be exactly like Sheik.
Considering it's a more difficult transformation too, I think it more than enough merits having both.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 18, 2007, 08:33:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Anyway, site got updated with Zero Suit Samus, which only adds further support that Sheik is still a likely addition as part of Zelda in the future.
Yeah, their moves are nothing alike, so there is no chance that ZSS would be Sheik's "replacement". Good thing in my opinion, I want each character to be as varied in play style as possible. As much as I would like to see a TP-afied Sheik (which may happen), I am still hoping that they replace the Sheik model with a certain redhead's model, but otherwise keep them the same play wise (zero chance of that happening).
Post by: SixthAngel on July 18, 2007, 10:02:43 PM
Post by: Mikintosh on July 18, 2007, 10:05:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Why? If anything, I'd think the opposite, since it looks like Zero Suit Samus controls exactly like Sheik, making the latter redundant.
In the videos, she is noticeably slower than Sheik was for one thing, but really we know nothing about her moves except for her whip... that's hardly enough to say that she's going to be exactly like Sheik.
Considering it's a more difficult transformation too, I think it more than enough merits having both.
What I mean is that I think Zero Suit Samus is a modified Sheik, not that they'd be identical. I think the fact that Sheik is not the alternate form of the TP Zelda that's actually in the game would be enough to disqualify her from Brawl, anyway. If they're axing characters from Melee, why would they keep an alternate whose function has been taken over by a new character which they featured in the first trailer?
Did Samus even have a whip in any of her games? It's obvious the basis is Sheik's model and at least one of her moves.
Post by: Shecky on July 19, 2007, 01:24:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
So.. does this mean Sakurai is going to add a character profile for Giga Bowser soon? >_<
Geez, why can't he just come out and say that she's a fully selectable playable character from the get-go? GRRRRR.
Not at all. The use of Giga Bowser is strictly temporary, where Zero Suit Samus is a side effect of the FSA.
I have a feeling there will be two characters.
Character Select -> Samus -> FSA -> Zero Suit Samus
Character Select -> Zero Suit Samus -> FSA -> Samus
With no going back and forth unless an option exists which controls how many FSA can be used in a match.
Post by: Strell on July 19, 2007, 02:18:14 AM
The funny thing about this was that your character could then attack immeasurably faster, which always made the computer opponent that much deadlier. I actually didn't want them to lose their weapons because their speed increased so much that I couldn't get an attack in (especially if I was using Seigfreid, since he had the massive zweihander to begin with).
This all said, I don't necessarily find it bad that Samus might have an irreversible transformation due to using her Final Smash. "Getting weaker" never really registers with me since I prefer faster hit 'n run characters anyway, and since everyone has at least one good (what I call) "impact" smash attack, you can chip away and then send someone flying pretty easily.
Still, I must admit, if Zero Suit Samus ends up being the replacement for Sheik, I wouldn't be happy. I doubt it would happen primarily because I have to imagine Sakurai knows how much she's used in tournaments, so I don't think he wants to piss those people off.
There's probably going to be a way to start as ZSS vis a vis Sheik/Zelda in Melee. Guess we'll find out soon.
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 19, 2007, 02:57:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
So.. does this mean Sakurai is going to add a character profile for Giga Bowser soon? >_<
Geez, why can't he just come out and say that she's a fully selectable playable character from the get-go? GRRRRR.
Not at all. The use of Giga Bowser is strictly temporary, where Zero Suit Samus is a side effect of the FSA.
I have a feeling there will be two characters.
Character Select -> Samus -> FSA -> Zero Suit Samus
Character Select -> Zero Suit Samus -> FSA -> Samus
With no going back and forth unless an option exists which controls how many FSA can be used in a match.
They are the same character, I'm betting on the hold A type thing like Sheik/Zelda in Melee.
Post by: Shecky on July 19, 2007, 03:16:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mr. JackQuote
Originally posted by: SheckyQuote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
So.. does this mean Sakurai is going to add a character profile for Giga Bowser soon? >_<
Geez, why can't he just come out and say that she's a fully selectable playable character from the get-go? GRRRRR.
Not at all. The use of Giga Bowser is strictly temporary, where Zero Suit Samus is a side effect of the FSA.
I have a feeling there will be two characters.
Character Select -> Samus -> FSA -> Zero Suit Samus
Character Select -> Zero Suit Samus -> FSA -> Samus
With no going back and forth unless an option exists which controls how many FSA can be used in a match.
They are the same character, I'm betting on the hold A type thing like Sheik/Zelda in Melee.
Sure, I guess I meant to imply that you can likely start as either and then FSA to the other, and that there may be a knob to turn to specify how many FSA can be done in a match...
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2007, 03:54:12 AM
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 19, 2007, 04:02:41 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2007, 05:35:04 AM
Post by: Mikintosh on July 19, 2007, 08:33:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Still, I must admit, if Zero Suit Samus ends up being the replacement for Sheik, I wouldn't be happy. I doubt it would happen primarily because I have to imagine Sakurai knows how much she's used in tournaments, so I don't think he wants to piss those people off.
But if she's a similar character, they'd probably rationalize it as being a fair trade in the evolution of the series; they said they didn't want to keep the entire roster of Melee, so this is how some characters survive onto the next game.
If somehow they allow Sheik into the game, I'd be happy; I play Zelda in matches from time to time. I just don't see it happening with the evidence I've seen.
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 19, 2007, 08:43:28 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2007, 08:59:44 AM
He needs to be redesigned to be Wind Waker Link, and have completely new special moves. To take away your variety of Link's is to ask for Spak-Spang to master the Take Names technique from Sensei Reggie-San
Post by: vudu on July 19, 2007, 09:03:31 AM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 19, 2007, 09:33:21 AM
vudu, as far as Mewtwo goes, I just said I wouldn't care if he got cut, just a personal opinion. There's very little chance they would cut him anyway, but if he did you wouldn't see me complaining.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 19, 2007, 10:01:23 AM
And I'm sure Mewtwo will stay in as well. He's one of the most popular Pokemon characters worldwide and can pretty much be considered the villain of the series. Even though he's not really evil, he fits the antagonist role the best. For Mewtwo to not be in the game would be like Bowser or Ganondorf also not appearing. Mario, Pokemon and Zelda are Nintendo's Top 3 series of all time, for a character as important to one of those series as Mewtwo is to not appear in the game, would only mean someone has kidnapped Sakurai's family and has forced him to remove them.
Post by: Strell on July 19, 2007, 10:06:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MikintoshQuote
Originally posted by: Strell
Still, I must admit, if Zero Suit Samus ends up being the replacement for Sheik, I wouldn't be happy. I doubt it would happen primarily because I have to imagine Sakurai knows how much she's used in tournaments, so I don't think he wants to piss those people off.
But if she's a similar character, they'd probably rationalize it as being a fair trade in the evolution of the series; they said they didn't want to keep the entire roster of Melee, so this is how some characters survive onto the next game.
I meant it in a very specific way, i.e. if we only have access to a Sheik moveset character via going through Samus to begin with, that sucks, because it ruins the chance for someone to just play an entire match with that style.
However there's no real way to know if this is the case right now. She's a new character after all, so maybe you can select her from the beginning. Hard to say.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 19, 2007, 10:13:14 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 19, 2007, 11:21:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
I find it hard to picture a cell-shaded Wind Waker Link in the midst of all the SSB chaos. I don't see it happening. I think Young Link was a waste of a character in the first place.
But Snake fits?
Super Smash Brothers is one series where EVERYTHING fits!
Post by: Darkheart on July 19, 2007, 11:36:54 AM
Post by: stevey on July 19, 2007, 01:29:22 PM
Quote
Nintendo better not cut Young Link.
He needs to be redesigned to be Wind Waker Link,
I rather see a MM link that can change into different things with (random) masks instead of a plain WW link.
Post by: mantidor on July 19, 2007, 04:26:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: steveyQuote
Nintendo better not cut Young Link.
He needs to be redesigned to be Wind Waker Link,
I rather see a MM link that can change into different things with (random) masks instead of a plain WW link.
YES!now I hate you because this awesome idea will never be implemented, I'm dissapointed by default
Post by: mantidor on July 19, 2007, 04:43:03 PM
EDIT: oops I meant to edit instead of posting again, sorry.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 19, 2007, 04:50:21 PM
Also, Kirby should be able to eat assist trophies to gain their powers.
Post by: Dasmos on July 19, 2007, 04:57:32 PM
QuotePlease tell how this is safe to assume? Has there been any shred of evidence to allude or point to this conclusion? No.
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Well considering how Wind Waker designed Link has been the star of more games over the last several years then realistic Link, I think it's safe to assume that Young Link will be turned into Wind Waker Link with a new move set.
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2007, 05:40:55 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 19, 2007, 07:20:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Though Celda "Link" could be an interesting character. Especially if they put the parry in their and did the sounds for him like in the game.
What's with the quotes? Shouldn't they be around "Celda"?
Post by: Sarail on July 19, 2007, 08:02:45 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 19, 2007, 08:21:02 PM
Maybe a brand-new fleshed out storyline for the single-player arcade mode? I could go for that.
Post by: Kairon on July 19, 2007, 08:35:58 PM
But what's with Meta Knight's ship showing up when things going bad? I thought Meta Knight was a good guy?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 19, 2007, 08:37:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I am sooo looking forward to this new storyline they're hinting at.
But what's with Meta Knight's ship showing up when things going bad? I thought Meta Knight was a good guy?
Meta Knight is a bad/good guy, he can be either, at least he is in the kirby games. He does have honor though, which is why he always gives Kirby a sword.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 19, 2007, 08:40:12 PM
From what I understood the characters we see in Brawl are not the original characters but gladiator drones whose sole purpose is to fight each other for the amusement of others.
Being turned back into a trophy is basically a metaphor for death at the hands of your opponent.
I think Mario resurrecting Kirby and becoming friends went against the rules and thus brought chaos to this world.
Maybe the storyline in single player mode has your character battling his or her way through various worlds in order to defeat this evil and restore peace to the SSB world.
They definitely created a teaser update with this one...
Post by: Kairon on July 19, 2007, 08:56:01 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 19, 2007, 08:57:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
They've had that angle ever since the first smash bros. All smash bros. have shown toys transforming into the fighters. And why do you think "Master Hand" was always the boss? Master Hand was the thing picking up the toys and making 'em fight each other!
Do I sense a philosophical meaning behind this?
Post by: Pittbboi on July 19, 2007, 10:32:40 PM
Look at the clouds in that one screen...
There's faces in them.
from the left is Bowser, then Ridley, can't make out the other one, but to the far right is Ganondorf.
Hmmmmm...This is one sneaky update
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 19, 2007, 10:55:50 PM
The players are the bad guys, because we make them fight... =3
"Look at the clouds in that one screen...There's faces in them."
To be honest, I think you are looking too hard into things... =D
As for Metaknight's ship, since this Puppet Master (which I will call the main boss until we get official confirmation on who it is...) has control over all these characters, it's not impossible to assume he has access to it and other things found in the Nintendo universe...
Post by: Shecky on July 20, 2007, 01:05:42 AM
I'll note that this game mode is still undisclosed. It listed as ??? and will likely stay that way until release. It likely ties to the name of the character in the last shot and to either the adventure or arcade mode.
Post by: Patchkid15 on July 20, 2007, 02:31:13 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 02:45:21 AM
I hope they don't ever talk in that game. Just show what their saying through actions. Let you fill in the words. Much like if you were playing with ... wait for it ... Toys.
I don't know what my take is on an actual Smash specific character. I rather have a character from a series trying to put the world "right." I always had the romantic notion that the Fields and everything in Smash where just from the Master Hands imagination.
Looking at it again it looks like it could be the son of the Homerun Hitting bag. Get revenge for the abuse his father/mother took.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 02:53:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Patchkid15
who is the guy in the last pic. A brand new character? Or a boss for the game
Doesn't look menacing enough to be a boss...I'm thinking minor underling...
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2007, 02:53:46 AM
Is the new adventure mode.
Basically the story starts out as typical Smash Bros. Trophies fighting together in friendly competitions. That is all they know.
This is no different than the basic story of Melee...and pays tribute to children playing with toys. A simple elegant system to allow Nintendo to bring their mascots to fight, but without having them truly fight. They are toys.
But, now something is interrupting that world. That isn't us. We were already a part of that world.
I believe the story is going to be about freeing these Statues and releasing them into "the real world"
but, the real world isn't our world. It is the worlds of each video game. They are being released into Hyrule, Mushroom Kingdom, and Dreamland.
There is definitely going to be a deeper story to this game.
As for Metaknight, I would suggest that perhaps he was one of the trophies freed first. Because they don't actually show Metaknight, they show a new character never before shown...or is that something happening to a new character?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 03:02:35 AM
Seems more like they are slaves this time around...From the screenshots, I can gather this:
1) Mario and Kirby forced to fight
2) Mario wins and Kirby turns back into a trophy
3) Mario saves Kirby from his trophy state and they become friends
4) Bad guy controlling the trophies doesn't like that and comes down to play
With the fact that a "deeper" story seems to happening, it'd be really neat if all the battles to unlock characters had a tiny bit more dramatization to them (like Kirby running through the woods, then Metaknight jumps down, tosses Kirby a sword, and they fight...If you win, you get Metaknight, etc...)
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 03:15:44 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 20, 2007, 03:17:21 AM
and that would be an awesome story!
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 03:44:11 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 20, 2007, 04:19:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Looking at it again it looks like it could be the son of the Homerun Hitting bag. Get revenge for the abuse his father/mother took.
I think it'll be the opposite, with a climactic revelation:
Badguy: Mario never told you what happened to your father.
Sandbag: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Badguy: No. I am your father.
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 04:21:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Looking at it again it looks like it could be the son of the Homerun Hitting bag. Get revenge for the abuse his father/mother took.
I think it'll be the opposite, with a climactic revelation:
Badguy: Mario never told you what happened to your father.
Sandbag: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Badguy: No. I am your father.
Sandbag Playable Character Confirmed. That would be awesome in a very weird way. Sandbag Saviour of the Smash.
Post by: Patchkid15 on July 20, 2007, 05:07:31 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 20, 2007, 05:10:31 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2007, 05:28:41 AM
The final shot the new character looks like a robot. And it does look more like a minor minion.
What if these new robots can become other characters. Transform into the other trophies...and therefore they are breaking the rules of the Smash world. Trophies are perhaps being totally destroyed instead of characters being frozen as a trophy until being called to fight again.
They could incorporate this into the story for the reasons why some characters from Melee are not in the game. Perhaps Pichu, Doctor Mario, ect were attacked by these robots and eliminated.
So for the first time in Brawl it truly is a fight for each characters life, and they must pull together to rid this menace from their world.
In this story line Meta Knight has already been taken over by the robots. (Though if that is the case Trophies can't be destoryed...perhaps to copy them they must enslave them as trophies perminantly...like they are taking their souls from them.
Just a thought.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 05:30:24 AM
(Edit: And the text...
Fighting is the sole reason for their existence...Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much like death...Those are the rules of this world.)
Post by: mantidor on July 20, 2007, 05:32:35 AM
EDIT: Also this looks like an awesome trailer, I hope they show it soon.
Post by: Mashiro on July 20, 2007, 05:39:34 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 20, 2007, 05:41:56 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2007, 05:45:34 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 05:57:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I think the placement of the text and screens suggests that Mario helping Kirby isn't breaking the rules at all. "Those are the rules of this world" comes after that act, and the line about breaking rules says "When someone...or something...breaks those rules." If we already knew who broke the rules, there'd be no need for the corny "or something" bit.
Then what's the point of Mario turning Kirby back into his normal self from the trophy? What's the point of the "Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much like death" line at all?
And this line doesn't seem to me to be very fitting for a Melee-esque happy-go-lucky "kid playing with figurines" storyline..."They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Frankly, it's pretty depressing!
Post by: Louieturkey on July 20, 2007, 05:58:15 AM
Pacman confirmed for SSBB!!
Post by: mantidor on July 20, 2007, 06:04:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I think the placement of the text and screens suggests that Mario helping Kirby isn't breaking the rules at all. "Those are the rules of this world" comes after that act, and the line about breaking rules says "When someone...or something...breaks those rules." If we already knew who broke the rules, there'd be no need for the corny "or something" bit.
Then what's the point of Mario turning Kirby back into his normal self from the trophy? What's the point of the "Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much like death" line at all?
And this line doesn't seem to me to be very fitting for a Melee-esque happy-go-lucky "kid playing with figurines" storyline..."They know nothing but fighting. Fighting is the sole reason for their existence." Frankly, it's pretty depressing!
Depressing and Smash does not compute. thats why I think this is a hint of a new gameplay mechanic, a co-op of some sort or something.... I don't know, anything but some "story".
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 06:05:38 AM
Post by: Pittbboi on July 20, 2007, 08:50:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Look at the clouds in that one screen...There's faces in them."
To be honest, I think you are looking too hard into things... =D
Or am I?
Ganondorf (though honestly a little hard to make out...until you realize that it's his side profile with him looking to his right...).
Master Hand (A little hard to make out, too, but I can definitely see it)
Then that's DEFINITELY Bowser
And that reptilian face could only belong to Ridley at the far end.
Post by: WalkingTheCow on July 20, 2007, 09:10:53 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 20, 2007, 09:11:45 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2007, 09:30:09 AM
Here is how I read it.
"In This World Trophies fight. They know nothing but fighting. That is their sole reason for existence."
Pictures show Mario and Kirby turn from trophies into combatants. Pretty typical story that has been given since Melee really. But why is it their sole purpose? I think it is simply because they are trophies, because they are toys. They are not real. It is not Mario turning from a trophy into a fighter. It is a statue of Mario fighting.
"Being turned back into a trophy, being unable to fight, is much life death"
Pictures show Mario bringing Kirby back to life. I think this is a respect and understanding of their roles. They are gladiators...they don't fight out of anger towards eachother or hate, but because that is what they do. Kirby being brought back to life is part of the nature of things so they can fight again. I believe this is supported by the next line:
"These are the rules of this world."
It is placed after Kirby is revived...implying that Mario's actions are within the rules...or that is how I read it.
"But...When Someone or Something...breaks those rules, the world will pay a terrible price.."
Pictures show MetaKnights ship coming in and a really mean looking red storm blowing in. What could that mean? Well I think Mario is realizing something wrong is going on. His heroic sense tells him to be ready. But, I would not say he is in the wrong. He doesn't have that rightgious look of a defiant hero.
Then the money shot. Something happening to a new character...but what? Is it dark matter corrupting them? Are they creating the purple energy? Nobody knows, but it is certain the new character is either being attacked by the new threat, or apart of the new threat.
I don't see this story being a story or defiant rebellion by the Trophy Mascots for freedom. I see it as a battle for their world, a fight for their way of existence, for their life.
Post by: Pittbboi on July 20, 2007, 09:33:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
Well, since you originally said "from left," I spent a long time trying to figure out how you were seeing anything in those clouds that looked like Bowser and Ridley, or how you saw Ganondorf in that cloud on the right. I eventually saw Ridley, but nowhere near where you're claiming to see him there. That should demonstrate how subjective this is.
Sorry about that, it was late when I typed that up. Anyway, I don't think it's subjective really...when you actually do see them. For example, Ganondorf took my the longest to make out, but once I did see him I realized that there was NO way that was coincidence...
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 09:38:24 AM
Oh, and I just realized another important bit from the text...
"When someone...or something...breaks those rules, the world will pay a terrible price..."
If the one breaking the rules was on the outside, wouldn't it be redundant to say "the world will pay a terrible price"? It's not "the world will be in danger," but "it will pay a price." This phrase is associated with someone doing damage to him or herself...This way, it makes it seem more like the world is punished for one of its' occupants breaking the rules...
Post by: Pittbboi on July 20, 2007, 09:44:16 AM
I'm getting a very weird Kingdom Hearts vibe from all of this. Maybe some big, new evil's in town and their rounding up all the classic baddies to help.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 09:48:09 AM
Post by: mantidor on July 20, 2007, 09:53:08 AM
Post by: Pittbboi on July 20, 2007, 09:57:25 AM
Quote
I guess that could work, too, but Metaknight isn't evil...
Yeah, but the Dark Nebula is...
Post by: Adrock on July 20, 2007, 11:23:03 AM
I am pleased that there's more of a story this time around, just something to explain why all these characters are fighting one another other than it's just plain cool that they are. They're still trophies, but I actually don't mind as much since they've added a storyline.
I don't have much to say about the plot. That robot thing is stupid looking. I highly doubt he's the final boss. In fact, I'm kind of thinking that it's a placeholder so as not to spoil anything.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 11:28:45 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2007, 11:36:57 AM
Oh, and I can see now how it can be interpreted that it's NOT the helping of Kirby that breaks the rules, but instead, the intrusion of Meta Knight (with those suspicious looking clouds).
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 11:53:15 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 12:04:16 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2007, 12:05:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well, except for Bowser, considering he was the final boss in Melee's Adventure mode...
WHAWHA... WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATT?!?!
Post by: Pittbboi on July 20, 2007, 12:15:01 PM
I kinda like the idea of there being a battle of good versus evil in the story mode of the game. Yeah, the premise seems a little cheesy, but games like Kingdom Hearts showed it could work. Whatever this "force" is that's bringing them together (and I do think it's something bringing them together, considering those clouds) I definitely think it won't be "new" exactly, but something from Kirby's games, I don't think the emphasis on Meta Knight's ship is just for effect.
I'm going to make a prediction now: Dark Meta Knight and the Black Nebula. Ten bucks...
Post by: Svevan on July 20, 2007, 12:16:41 PM
I actually think the story is unnecessary, and if the "adventure" mode is as half-assed as Melee's, I won't give two squats other than to unlock characters (and trophies! And whatever other goodies there are).
Also, the face on the far right (if there are faces, which is debatable) could be K. Rool.
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2007, 12:24:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
Yeah, Giga Bowser...
WAAAAAHHH! I PHAIL!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 12:26:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I actually think the story is unnecessary, and if the "adventure" mode is as half-assed as Melee's, I won't give two squats other than to unlock characters (and trophies! And whatever other goodies there are).
So, uh, pretty much half the fun of the game... =)
Post by: IceCold on July 20, 2007, 12:30:19 PM
QuoteHaha, to me the "Master Hand" looks like Rayman jumping out at us.. it really does!
Originally posted by: WalkingTheCow
I'm unsure about the Master Hand being in there but the other three are certainly there.
But I can see the resemblance to Bowser and Ridley..
Post by: Svevan on July 20, 2007, 12:44:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I actually think the story is unnecessary, and if the "adventure" mode is as half-assed as Melee's, I won't give two squats other than to unlock characters (and trophies! And whatever other goodies there are).
So, uh, pretty much half the fun of the game... =)
Explain that to me Bill. Did you really love Melee's Adventure Mode?
Post by: Kairon on July 20, 2007, 12:47:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 20, 2007, 01:01:53 PM
Post by: Svevan on July 20, 2007, 01:16:47 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2007, 01:51:08 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 20, 2007, 05:03:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I think we just misunderstood each other: my point was that the only fun part of Adventure Mode was unlocking trophies and characters. In and of itself it is dreck, with battles to break up the monotony.
Kind of funny, because the whole point of the "dreck" was to break up the monotony of the battles.
I think Adventure Mode was a good concept that was imperfectly executed, so I hope they do a better job with that idea in Brawl. I wouldn't want them to cut it completely.
Also, Mario and Kirby holding hands... I wonder if there will be a 2-player co-op story/adventure mode. I would really like that.
Post by: Sarail on July 20, 2007, 05:08:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: Svevan
I think we just misunderstood each other: my point was that the only fun part of Adventure Mode was unlocking trophies and characters. In and of itself it is dreck, with battles to break up the monotony.
Kind of funny, because the whole point of the "dreck" was to break up the monotony of the battles.
I think Adventure Mode was a good concept that was imperfectly executed, so I hope they do a better job with that idea in Brawl. I wouldn't want them to cut it completely.
Also, Mario and Kirby holding hands... I wonder if there will be a 2-player co-op story/adventure mode. I would really like that.
I think that was mainly just Mario helping Kirby up... after coming out of his trophy state.
Post by: Adrock on July 20, 2007, 05:50:01 PM
Quote
A "placeholder"? What would be the point of having an update of something that won't exist?
The update is that there's something of a storyline, filled many cryptic statements. The purpose of a placeholder would be to protect specific information from being spoiled. I remember Silicon Knights creating a whole E3 demo level of Eternal Darkness featuring a character who, in the final game, is shown for all of 3-4 seconds. I remember no Raiden before MGS2 was released, instead Snake was shown in all promotional material. It's not like there's no precedence for this kind of thing.
The update was pretty serious and ominous until that goofy sandbag-robot thing with punching gloves was shown. I'd like to think that Sakurai's artists could come up with better designs than that..... unless the point is that breaking the rules turns you into something that stupid.
Post by: Mashiro on July 20, 2007, 06:13:11 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 20, 2007, 07:03:10 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 20, 2007, 07:14:22 PM
The character in the last screenshot could easily be a minion of the real boss, even if it still looks stupid. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I feel that the fighting polygon team/wire-frames would've fit quite nicely there. They were always kind of mysterious to me so they'd work well as minions or if a character turns into something else for breaking some unexplained rules.
It's really not that big a deal. I just think that thing looks lame. And everyone else has their theories, so I thought I'd toss mine up for consideration.
Post by: IceCold on July 20, 2007, 08:32:50 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 20, 2007, 09:08:31 PM
I hope "helping" is used in the context of a child "helping" to make dinner by shaking up the shake 'n' bake bag.
Post by: Ceric on July 21, 2007, 04:57:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
It was just a suggestion. With Hideo Kojima involved in the game, I wouldn't put it past them.
The character in the last screenshot could easily be a minion of the real boss, even if it still looks stupid. I may be getting ahead of myself, but I feel that the fighting polygon team/wire-frames would've fit quite nicely there. They were always kind of mysterious to me so they'd work well as minions or if a character turns into something else for breaking some unexplained rules.
It's really not that big a deal. I just think that thing looks lame. And everyone else has their theories, so I thought I'd toss mine up for consideration.
Thats actually an even better idea. The Smash world already has generic enforcers in the form of the Polygon/Wire-Frame(P/WF) Team. I rather have those "enforce the rules" if its the mascots breaking them. I like them to be canon fodder for the defense of the world if its that.
Now why we are on the P/WF Team I think they make an interesting playable character. It would work one of two ways. You select P/WF and it would randomly assign a characters move set to them, giving some visual que of who, and you use that set to play. In Adventure type mode etc. the mimicked character would change every stage. Another way this could be taken is that you start off with a generic P/WF and then though some button combinations in the boringest version you can "become" other characters. A really interesting take is if the P/WF would evolve to someone with the strengths of your believed fighting style. Lots of interesting possibilities their.
Post by: Strell on July 21, 2007, 06:58:59 AM
The more I think about it, the more I cannot ignore Nintendo's silence on the matter. They are sort of like the little kid who has broken the lamp, but the parents haven't found out yet.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 07:03:23 AM
Brawl needs to be online. Period.
Riot in the street if it isn't (I know I will =P).
Edit: And hey if Jump Ultimate Stars for DS can be online, I would assume Brawl can. Hell I'll even take 1v1 matches only online I don't care it just has to have some form of online mode.
Post by: Ceric on July 21, 2007, 09:27:56 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 09:48:34 AM
Gah! If it isn't 4 players with items, THERE IS NO POINT IN HAVING ONLINE!
It'd be like announcing New Super Mario Brothers 2 with co-op stages, but without power-ups or enemies...That is, hilariously pointless...
Post by: LuigiHann on July 21, 2007, 09:54:57 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 21, 2007, 10:43:40 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 21, 2007, 11:14:07 AM
Why I would like to have items and the works I don't think at the current time that they Lowest Common Denominator Speed for broadband is up to it. I also don't see any tricks they can do to get around some of the hang ups that other games use. Fighting games are just to unpredictable compared to other styles of games.
On NSMB2 I see Co-op as pretty pointless. Now Vs maybe.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 11:45:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
The thing is, 4 player Smash Bros online is impossible. Hell, most companies have trouble just getting 1v1 fighting games to work online and even then several of these games still suffer from lag. Trying to get a game like Smash Bros, with more characters, interactive stages and items like Pokeball's and Assist Trophies that can bring in even more characters would create lag so bad it'd be unplayable.
I wonder if it'd help things if they pulled a Mario Strikers and had four players play through two consoles...
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 11:53:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I'll take 1v1, selected stages, with no items. Ok 4 player if there is no items.
While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items (the selected stages is okay because I can understand how they might have a problem with a stage like Poke Floats online). If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.
WARNING: Rant ahead.
I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB. First off I have never seen a game played competitively where the rules are change so much from default . I would like to say that I have only participated in arcade, console, and portable tournaments, I have never played in a PC based tournament, although I would find it hard to believe that in a BF2 tournament they would turn off all vehicles and weapons except the knife (I do know people who play this way however). Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.
Contrary to what it may sound like,I am not trying to bash the tournament rules, I just wish that most Professional players would see that the way they play is not the only true competitive way to play, it is only showing one facet of the game. Let me give you an example; would you say that NASCAR or Rally racing is the only true way to professionally auto race? You may say that Rally racing is better because of some arbitrary reason like "because in NASCAR you only have to go left, and that does not show any real skill at all", but you would be wrong for saying that. Rally Racing shows the driver's skill versus the course, while NASCAR show the driver's skill versus other drivers. I can already hear you saying "but what about GT racing? GT racing is clearly the best form auto racing because it shows the driver's skill versus both the other drivers and the course." To that I say that while it may show how good the driver is against both the course and other drivers at the same time, it does not show how well he can deal with each variable individually as NASCAR and Rally can.
I guess what I am I trying to say is that all the rule sets that people tend to use show how well a particular player is at playing with that rule set, not so much how well you play the game as a whole and as such their should be a few rule sets to show how well one plays at each facet of SSB.
Post by: IceCold on July 21, 2007, 12:49:38 PM
QuoteAs soon as I heard Reggie talking about WiFi and mentioning Strikers and Mario Kart while excluding Smash, I've been expecting the worst.
So who wants to take a bet right now that this game is not online?
The more I think about it, the more I cannot ignore Nintendo's silence on the matter. They are sort of like the little kid who has broken the lamp, but the parents haven't found out yet.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 01:24:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
The thing is, 4 player Smash Bros online is impossible. Hell, most companies have trouble just getting 1v1 fighting games to work online and even then several of these games still suffer from lag. Trying to get a game like Smash Bros, with more characters, interactive stages and items like Pokeball's and Assist Trophies that can bring in even more characters would create lag so bad it'd be unplayable.
I do not think it would be impossible, just really hard. The way I see it if the new Mario Kart can have online Battle mode with the amount of stuff that can go on, then it should not be all that much harder, in fact I think it would be easier, to have 4 player Smash with items online. I mean if they can supposedly have a working version of VF5 on live then SSBB should be no problem, but...
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteAs soon as I heard Reggie talking about WiFi and mentioning Strikers and Mario Kart while excluding Smash, I've been expecting the worst.
So who wants to take a bet right now that this game is not online?
The more I think about it, the more I cannot ignore Nintendo's silence on the matter. They are sort of like the little kid who has broken the lamp, but the parents haven't found out yet.
You bring up a good point, SSBB not even being mentioned as online during the conference does not bode well for online Smash, and I am surprised I did not catch that before.
Maybe we should all just assume that SSBB will not be online so we will not be too disappointed if no online turns out to be true, that is my stance now anyway.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 01:34:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I'll take 1v1, selected stages, with no items. Ok 4 player if there is no items.
While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items (the selected stages is okay because I can understand how they might have a problem with a stage like Poke Floats online). If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.
WARNING: Rant ahead.
I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB. First off I have never seen a game played competitively where the rules are change so much from default . I would like to say that I have only participated in arcade, console, and portable tournaments, I have never played in a PC based tournament, although I would find it hard to believe that in a BF2 tournament they would turn off all vehicles and weapons except the knife (I do know people who play this way however). Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.
Contrary to what it may sound like,I am not trying to bash the tournament rules, I just wish that most Professional players would see that the way they play is not the only true competitive way to play, it is only showing one facet of the game. Let me give you an example; would you say that NASCAR or Rally racing is the only true way to professionally auto race? You may say that Rally racing is better because of some arbitrary reason like "because in NASCAR you only have to go left, and that does not show any real skill at all", but you would be wrong for saying that Rally Racing shows the driver's skill versus the course, while NASCAR show the driver's skill versus other drivers. I can already hear you saying "but what about GT racing? GT racing is clearly the best form auto racing because it shows the driver's skill versus both the other drivers and the course." To that I say that while it may show how good the driver is against both the course and other drivers at the same time, it does not show how well he can deal with each variable individually as NASCAR and Rally can.
I guess what I am I trying to say is that all the rule sets that people tend to use show how well a particular player is at playing with that rule set, not so much how well you play the game as a whole and as such their should be a few rule sets to show how well one plays at each facet of SSB.
My best reason to give you as to why "professional" play is considered how it is in Smash is because random =/= skill.
I'm not saying it's the only way to play but in a more "official/professional" setting that's just how it is.
Quote
Second, randomness is part of the game, no matter what you do, you will never get rid of of the "unfairness" of the randomness because people are still able to play as Luigi, Peach, Ice Climbers, and Mr. G&W; besides until everyone is forced to play as the same character then no match will ever be completely fair.
There's a difference in choosing a character that plays different and in having random items fall from the sky. In a professional setting you're typically looking at one players skill vs another. How well they play their character with just well their characters. Not using items. Not getting health back. Etc etc.
Again it isn't the only way to play, of course it isn't. I enjoy 4 player smash with items on just like anyone else. But I also enjoy just plain skill matches. More times than not they are way more fun and far more difficult than a 4 player romp.
Quote
If they cannot at least get the default rules (how the game is setup without messing with the options) online then it just would not be Smash online, and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.
Well it would be better than nothing =)
Post by: stevey on July 21, 2007, 01:55:50 PM
Probably because it hasn't been full finalized and Reggie didn't want to be ask how many can play at once or are all the stages playable online when he doesn't know himself. Or that info just being saved up for a blog update.
I bet the game going to be at lease 4player online and maybe more. Iwata said it was going a launch game and online and since they gave it all the time they need and miss launch they definitely have online play.
Post by: Arbok on July 21, 2007, 01:55:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items ... and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.
...wow
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB.
I love four player Smash Bros with all items turned on. I love one vs. one with no items on Final Destination, aka "pro" settings. I don't see either as the "true" way to play, and the strength of the franchise is the number of options available.
I really have not met very many "Professionals" who are adamant about other methods of play in Smash Bros being wrong. In fact, I find it ironic that you are complaining about this, when you opened up the post by stating you would be happier if there was no online versus allowing a 1 vs. 1 setup.
Really, what's getting people rilled up about this? Is there really a problem if someone enjoys playing a game in a different manner than you if the options allow it?
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 02:03:36 PM
If it wasn't online I would be incredibly shocked. I know there are many technical hurdles but they are gonna make it work.
Edit: Here's the quote from the man himself.
Quote
"My plan is to include Wi-Fi connection compatibility and online functionality. One of the primary reasons Super Smash Bros. Brawl was created was that Nintendo, when taking Wii online, wanted to have Smash Bros. to do that," added Sakurai.
If it's a primary reason for the game being made (for it to be online) I have to assume it will be online in some way. It just has to.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 21, 2007, 02:19:49 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 02:32:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
I assume they are just waiting for TGS to drop the SSBB Online Megaton. They gotta save announcements for all of these shows that are too damn close together now.
"We're happy to announce . . . 8 player online for SSBB." MEGATON!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 02:35:07 PM
Yes, because I'd rather Ninty focus on meating up the actual game than try to get a crappy, diluted online mode up and working...
Post by: Mario on July 21, 2007, 02:41:51 PM
Quote
I love four player Smash Bros with all items turned on. I love one vs. one with no items on Final Destination, aka "pro" settings.
I think the issue people have with calling those settings "Pro" is that Pros should be able to deal with items and not have to bend the rules to their liking to be competitive.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 02:44:38 PM
Quote
I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!
Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?
Post by: Mario on July 21, 2007, 02:45:10 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 21, 2007, 02:46:18 PM
So I say don't fret, but at the same time don't get your hopes up.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 21, 2007, 02:55:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!
Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?
Isn't that basically how the internet works? Real life can't be that different... although I admit I haven't tried it.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 02:59:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHannQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
I have already accepted there wont be online, and i'm currently working on finding some real human beings to interact with. My options are limited however since there's only about 4 million people in this city. Man this sucks!
Hiya random person! Do you wanna be my friend and play Super Smash Bros. Brawl?
Isn't that basically how the internet works? Real life can't be that different... although I admit I haven't tried it.
Uh if you're just trying to meet people than yeah. I'm saying do people venture forth in search of new friends in real life JUST for the sake of playing a video game? Then when you're tired of that person you find a new person to play the game with? That's a lot of footwork and effort just to get a kick outta a game lol.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 03:03:04 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 03:06:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well having friends sorta eliminates that problem, no?
Did you read what Mario said Bill? Lol, I'm merely pointing out it's a lot of footwork to keep finding new people IRL to play a game as opposed to having the ability to just connect to Wifi and have a game find a random person(s) for you to battle.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 03:10:57 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 03:14:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Mario was making fun of the fact that people think a game needs to be online for them to play other people, when they can just actually, you know, go out and meet people...
Yeah because clearly everyone lives in a city with 4 million people AMIRIGHT?
Come on. There's a REASON why games are online.
Besides, I'm not saying being social and having friends and stuff don't make games like Brawl fun. Of course it does. Heck back when Melee first came out I had parties with co-workers where we all just got together and played melee. It was great fun =) but online adds the ability to keep that feeling of new challenge in the game fresh. After a while playing the same people over and over again just gets boring. And like I said, not everyone is in a central location with lots of people.
Edit: To add to this, online gives the ability to play with friends who may not be close to you anymore. For example, my cousin is going to college soon. He and I have great fun playing Melee and we can't wait for Brawl. It will be nice to be able to play with him online as opposed to having to wait for a holiday get together to play.
Again being social and having RL friends isn't bad but that doesn't replace what an online feature in a game can bring.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on July 21, 2007, 03:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Mario was making fun of the fact that people think a game needs to be online for them to play other people, when they can just actually, you know, go out and meet people...
Yeah because clearly everyone lives in a city with 4 million people AMIRIGHT?
Come on. There's a REASON why games are online.
Besides, I'm not saying being social and having friends and stuff don't make games like Brawl fun. Of course it does. Heck back when Melee first came out I had parties with co-workers where we all just got together and played melee. It was great fun =) but online adds the ability to keep that feeling of new challenge in the game fresh. After a while playing the same people over and over again just gets boring. And like I said, not everyone is in a central location with lots of people.
Like me, I live out in the middle of nowhere. Heck just a year ago we finally got DSL in our area!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2007, 03:26:15 PM
So NEETs can play against people without having anyone complain about their smell?
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 03:27:20 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 21, 2007, 04:38:35 PM
Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting for a media event in order to officially announce online mode. They already said that they have 2 on 2 online mode working. The one thing they haven't been able to do is an online leader board.
So I say don't fret, but at the same time don't get your hopes up.
That just seems a little backwards.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 05:52:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
While it would be disappointing if SSBB was not online I, and I am being serious, would rather have no online at all then to only be able to play 1v1 with no items ... and the only people I could see enjoying it for a long period of time would be "pro" players.
...wowQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I do not see why "Professional" Smash players think that the rule set that they use, either because they like the rules or because the rules were put into place before they began to play it competitively, is the only true way to play SSB.
I love four player Smash Bros with all items turned on. I love one vs. one with no items on Final Destination, aka "pro" settings. I don't see either as the "true" way to play, and the strength of the franchise is the number of options available.
I really have not met very many "Professionals" who are admit about other methods of play in Smash Bros being wrong. In fact, I find it ironic that you are complaining about this, when you opened up the post by stating you would be happier if there was no online versus allowing a 1 vs. 1 setup.
Really, what's getting people rilled up about this? Is there really a problem if someone enjoys playing a game in a different manner than you if the options allow it?
Most of the "professional" players I have met have acted like their way was the only true way to play competitively. Perhaps This is conducive to my area, but I have also talked to many online that feel the same way, maybe I am running into only the elitist Smash players.
To clarify my "I would rather not have online" statement, I meant that if that was the only way to play online, then I would rather not have online. If it was one way of many then I would fine.
I really do not care how others play the game, especially since I have no interest in becoming a pro player (although it may be because I do not like the rules, and plus I am not really all that good
), but when the main competitive style is one that turns SSB into nothing more then a generic 2-D fighter, why not just go play Garou or SF3 which do it so much better? Plus I just like to argue.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 06:00:39 PM
Quote
but when the main competitive style is one that turns SSB into nothing more then a generic 2-D fighter, why not just go play Garou or SF3 which do it so much better? Plus I just like to argue.
1v1 melee no items is like no other fighting game on the market =)
Post by: EasyCure on July 21, 2007, 06:14:56 PM
Quote
I think the issue people have with calling those settings "Pro" is that Pros should be able to deal with items and not have to bend the rules to their liking to be competitive.
QFT
“randomness =/= skill” = fail
i have two close friends whom i usually do most of my duals with reluctantly and we're fairly evenly matched, until we add items and possibly a fourth player. thats usually when i start pwning because they aren't used to dealing with everything else going on. They don't know how to use the level to their advantage either. You'd think a pro could handle it though. Thats why it irks me when pro rules are considered the only way to play.
That and because every “pro” player i've met is a pompous arse. Or when something like this happened:
When i worked at the nintendo store there would be six people on break, a comfy couch that easily sits 4 people, a gamecube with Smash loaded up, and four perfectly good controllers sitting there..
but two were always untouched because everyone insisted on 1v1. I didn't even bother to play if i had to wait for those stupid matches to end and hope i was handed off the nasty sweat covered controler of the loser.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 06:21:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
but when the main competitive style is one that turns SSB into nothing more then a generic 2-D fighter, why not just go play Garou or SF3 which do it so much better? Plus I just like to argue.
1v1 melee no items is like no other fighting game on the market =)
Joy Mecha Fight?
It is also kind of like playing any of Capcom's Vs. series on Auto mode.
EDIT: Sorry, meant to post more then the original message.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 06:36:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCureQuote
I think the issue people have with calling those settings "Pro" is that Pros should be able to deal with items and not have to bend the rules to their liking to be competitive.
QFT
“randomness =/= skill” = fail
i have two close friends whom i usually do most of my duals with reluctantly and we're fairly evenly matched, until we add items and possibly a fourth player. thats usually when i start pwning because they aren't used to dealing with everything else going on. They don't know how to use the level to their advantage either. You'd think a pro could handle it though. Thats why it irks me when pro rules are considered the only way to play.
That and because every “pro” player i've met is a pompous arse. Or when something like this happened:
When i worked at the nintendo store there would be six people on break, a comfy couch that easily sits 4 people, a gamecube with Smash loaded up, and four perfectly good controllers sitting there..
but two were always untouched because everyone insisted on 1v1. I didn't even bother to play if i had to wait for those stupid matches to end and hope i was handed off the nasty sweat covered controler of the loser.
While I don't think a 4v4 match with items should determine whom really is the better player, any "pro" style player should be able to deal with all the normal play stuff (items, stages, etc).
One of my personal favorite stages to play on is the Brianstar depths stage in Melee because of it's hectic nature.
A good player or anyone whom really wants to consider themselves a "pro" should learn all methods of play and try to become the best at all of them because in the end, it just increases your overall skill.
For my Randomness =/= skill remark, I stand by it. Though I should clarify that that does not include stages. I think a pro match should be able to be held on any stage.
Edit: About pro players beings "arses" thats a shame and tell em to lighten the f*** up. It is just a game after all haha. I remember at this convention call I-Con that's in my area, I went to the game room and a bunch of torni players had just finished their melee matches and were playing for fun. I joined in and rocked em in a 4 way FFA match a couple of times on various stages, until they picked the F-Zero stage where you fight on the cars. Needless to say I got my ass kicked but it was all in good fun and we had a good laugh =)
Post by: Kairon on July 21, 2007, 06:46:11 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 21, 2007, 07:22:46 PM
I stand by it.
Post by: EasyCure on July 21, 2007, 07:32:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Tolerance! With items, without items, with selected items, 1 vs 1, 4 vs 4, random stage, picked stage... it's all good, and none is better than the other!
Also QFT
I know my post seemed hostile but it wasn't my intent. Also Mashiro i didn't mean to sound like i was attacking you buy using your quote. If you thought i was calling you an arse, i apologies.
its just i'm sick of the boneheads i've had to deal with for competition because they never want to lighten up. Melee permanently became stuck up their rectums and ruined the game for me. i used to love a good dual as much as the next guy but i can't deal with it anymore. I only play 1v1 one when i have no choice, either we play the game buy those stupid rules or not play at all. And some times you just have to get your Smash on so i deal.
it's just become so boring. If you cant enjoy the game whats tin point of playing? even if i'm competing i try to have some fun. I honestly don't know how i feel about Smash being online because part of its appeal is sitting down with friends and trash talking and i don't think i'd get the same feeling playing someone online. It wouldn't matter if it were 1v1 or a 4player brawl, or against a stranger or a friend, i don't think it can capture the fun vibe. A 2 on 2 game with a buddy by my side vs someone else could be fun but i don't see that happening often since i've separated myself from most of my smash circle (because they're the ones that take it too serious).
If the game does have online i hope for more than just 1v1 battles because i'd like to enjoy ALL types of matches. With that said i hope i get to face off with most of you this december
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 08:29:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
For my Randomness =/= skill remark, I stand by it. Though I should clarify that that does not include stages. I think a pro match should be able to be held on any stage.
I am not trying to attack you or anything, but I just do not follow your logic. You treat randomness and skill as mutually exclusive, but that is not the case. Pro golfers have to deal with changing wind, Football players (North American) have to deal with adverse weather, poker players have to deal with the hand they are dealt, and in BF2142 players have to deal with being spawned right in front of a hostel Walker. Its all about adapting or dying, and adaption is a skill which the current tournament rules do not test as much as they could. I will concede that surviving in a random, harsh environment does not automatically make one skillful, but neither does surviving in a sterile, fair environment.
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Tolerance! With items, without items, with selected items, 1 vs 1, 4 vs 4, random stage, picked stage... it's all good, and none is better than the other!
I would just like to say that I have no problem with how people play the game for fun, but what I am actually arguing is that the current tournament rules should not be held up as the only way to truly play SSB as a "pro". If fencing can have three recognized professional forms then why is it so far a stretch to say that SSB cannot have more then one?
I actually think that the unwillingness in the pro smash community to have a different rule set, even in tandem with the old one, may come from the fact that those who are in power, the Pro players, are so entrenched and have spent so much time using the current rules that the mere idea of change and having to share their Pro status with upstarts that do not follow the same rules both disgusts and scares them , either consciously or subconsciously. I would like to add that this is more of a generalization of the smash community as a whole, and does not pertain to every individual that is apart of the smash community, remember that group think is wrong, no matter what end it is used from, but from my personal experience the "my way is the only way" belief is adopted by most of the Smash community that I have dealt with and, up until participating in this forum, I have not found any Smash players who would even humor the idea of another set of rules that one would also consider to be professional. Keep in mind that I do not want the old rules to be abandoned, I just would like to see another set of rules that would be used at the same time and would also be given the status of professional.
Post by: Kairon on July 21, 2007, 09:17:57 PM
Personally, I believe tournaments should be held under all sorts of different conditions. They could have certain sections with items, without, on random stages, on specific stages, even with particular hand-picked items! The beauty of Smash showed be showed off by the mutability of its conditions, and players should be celebrated for being well-rounded, not just obsessively skilled.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 09:43:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I completely agree with your assessment of such people.
Personally, I believe tournaments should be held under all sorts of different conditions. They could have certain sections with items, without, on random stages, on specific stages, even with particular hand-picked items! The beauty of Smash showed be showed off by the mutability of its conditions, and players should be celebrated for being well-rounded, not just obsessively skilled.
This is a trap isn't it? No one just agrees with me like that... do they...?
Post by: Kairon on July 21, 2007, 09:51:22 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 21, 2007, 10:23:53 PM
With no items, players fight to the best of their abilities with no x factors.
Post by: Kairon on July 21, 2007, 10:35:33 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 21, 2007, 10:48:06 PM
Getting rid of them all is the only reasonable conclusion, and by default, is the only way to consistently judge a person's skill.
Or, of course, the exact opposite.
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 10:55:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Fighting with no items is the best way to see raw skill. Items tend to help the player and that is a handicap (plus quicker players tend to get more items).
With no items, players fight to the best of their abilities with no x factors.
/agreed
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 11:05:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Fighting with no items is the best way to see raw skill. Items tend to help the player and that is a handicap (plus quicker players tend to get more items).
With no items, players fight to the best of their abilities with no x factors.
I will say that fighting with no items may show how well someone would fight just using the character themselves, but if you were to add items then that scenario would require a different SKILL set, it would still take skill, just different skill then fighting with no items. Also what is funny is that with items on, current low tier characters are much more dangerous, like Mewtwo and Bowser, in fact one could say that items are a balancing factor and by taking them out of the game you are in effect disrupting the balance of the game. Perhaps Sakurai and his team factor in items as part of the balancing system in which case the current rules would always make the game seem unbalanced, or even broken, in the eyes of the pros.
Another possible balancing factor maybe the number of players in a match. I feel that a few characters are more suited for "crowed-control" than for dealing with just one other player.
So in effect I am saying that if characters are balanced with these things in mind, are you not giving the characters who were designed to not need items for things like range an X factor by default?
Post by: Mashiro on July 21, 2007, 11:13:05 PM
Quote
know my post seemed hostile but it wasn't my intent. Also Mashiro i didn't mean to sound like i was attacking you buy using your quote. If you thought i was calling you an arse, i apologies
Oh it's alright I didn't think you were attacking me, I really meant for those other arses to chill =)
Also it should be important to note I would have no problem playing in a tournament style game of Melee with items on and such, in fact I find it easier to win that way, I just feel like it makes it too easy sometimes. Hence why I personally prefer more official style matches to be held in the more "standard" way. Furthermore, too many people end up crying with items on (in my experience) and with a 1v1 setting of no items it just makes it more clear that the person lost because well they couldn't handle the battle at hand rather than "oh you got lucky cause the heart fell by you" or some stupid stuff.
Post by: Stogi on July 21, 2007, 11:15:54 PM
He's slow and big.
Post by: Mikintosh on July 21, 2007, 11:30:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
How can Bowser possibly be better when items are on? He's slow; making it hard for him to race his opponent. He's big; making him a pretty easy target.
He's slow and big.
And he doesn't have much range, but most of the offensive weapons are either throwable or have a longer reach than Bowser can easily manage. While Bowser's still a little too clumsy (same with DK), the items help make him competitive in the frenetic atmosphere in a way that he can't function in otherwise; Mewtwo's just a floaty goof, always.
Man, it's late.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 21, 2007, 11:52:08 PM
Quote
Hence why I personally prefer more official style matches to be held in the more "standard" way.
More "Official"? By who's standards? Those who are already good at fighting with the "official" rules? And would not the "Standard" way be the way that the game is setup when you first turn it on? It seems to me that items have time taken to design and implement into the game, and they keep putting them on by default. Why do some characters have special attributes with certain items while others do not, such as the length of the Beam Saber when used? To me it clearly says that items are in fact part of the balancing of the game, and by most peoples definition a more balanced game is the better game.
In a lot of ways the constant reimplementation of items is in fact a snub, on the developers part, in the pro players direction.
Quote
Furthermore, too many people end up crying with items on (in my experience) and with a 1v1 setting of no items it just makes it more clear that the person lost because well they couldn't handle the battle at hand rather than "oh you got lucky cause the heart fell by you" or some stupid stuff.
What ever happed to the phrase "Sucks to be you"? Seriously though that can be remedied with a best 2 out of 3 match setup, or by using timed matches, but things like that should only become a problem in a match where there are very close equally skilled players, but in that case the game would still come down to who screwed up less, item or not.
BTWI hope you do not think that I am attacking Mashiro, it is that I may just come off that way. Like I said, I love to argue.
And Thank you, Mikintosh, for saving me the typing on explaining what I meant with Bowser, but to me it is quite early.
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 12:15:50 AM
Quote
More "Official"? By who's standards?
By the standards of those who play on an international level and are give thousands of dollars of prize cash for winning in said tournaments =)
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 02:02:24 AM
Wrong, wrong, WRONG...Considering there isn't a single designated spawn point for items, there is absolutely no way a single player can monopolize all the items on the map...And if you have trouble fighting someone who is using items against you, you don't have a right to consider yourself "pro" in the first place...
You are basically saying "Fighting without items is skill" and then are turning around and saying "Items are luck," without realizing it takes skill not only to utilize items to your advantage, but also skill to deal with how your opponents themselves utilize them...
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 03:34:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Getting rid of them all is the only reasonable conclusion, and by default, is the only way to consistently judge a person's skill.
Or, of course, the exact opposite.
I prefer the opposite.
Post by: Ceric on July 22, 2007, 04:01:32 AM
I'm going to say this. For everyone who wants a change in the Tournament rules. More power to ya. But like any general sport you'll get different specializations to test different skill sets. Its like the Strongest Man competitions and Professional Weight lifting. One has you lift a wide variety of different weight in different ways and they other is primarily lifting the weight over your head. Both are in the Muscle Building arena.
A better example I guess would be Olympic swimming. I mean how many styles of races are there. You have freestyle, butterfly, breast stroke, etc. Though at the end of the day they are all swimming. I see Smash needing to migrate to that sort of setting. You would have your sterile dual tournaments and you would have your rich item 4 player tournament, probably a variant inbetween, team and no team. Then I can see an Iron Man style tournament where you go through and each tier would have a condition or twist. Like maybe having items or Low-High team up where the Lowest ranked in the Tier is teamed with the Highest in a match.
I also hope that if they get it fully working online that they take the time to make the tournament mode be able to be hosted by someone and be really tweakable. Enough that I could just set it to do everything I mentioned above. It would also be cool if they would allow the option for spectators. While I'm pipe dreaming add later character additions to that.
Post by: Sarail on July 22, 2007, 04:06:50 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 04:19:59 AM
so long as it is not a Fzero stage where you fight on moving cars lol.
Post by: EasyCure on July 22, 2007, 06:49:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Fighting with no items is the best way to see raw skill. Items tend to help the player and that is a handicap (plus quicker players tend to get more items)."
Wrong, wrong, WRONG...Considering there isn't a single designated spawn point for items, there is absolutely no way a single player can monopolize all the items on the map...And if you have trouble fighting someone who is using items against you, you don't have a right to consider yourself "pro" in the first place...
You are basically saying "Fighting without items is skill" and then are turning around and saying "Items are luck," without realizing it takes skill not only to utilize items to your advantage, but also skill to deal with how your opponents themselves utilize them...
YES YES YES
I don't like getting into debates over items because its subjective to too many different things. For example someone mentioned stars and hearts before and that it can make things unfair and suggested a match becomes less competitive but you can simply turn them off and solve that problem.
there are so many different ways to play i don't even know where to begin..
recover items: only time we play matches like this is if we use then exclusively, at its lowest setting in duals or four player crawls with 99 lives. Those matches are spectacular and show off tremendous endurance amongst us as players. In a dual its rare to actually get an item because we end up fighting over it so much that it disappears. When someone actually does get it and the other person or everyone else is at a high percentage you have to change you fight style and become more defensive. In the end the player with the most skill is going to triumph over the other no matter who replenished more health.
bob-bombs: play with these on high with two speed characters on final destination and the match becomes about who can avoid them the best while still being able to attack their opponent.
Post by: EasyCure on July 22, 2007, 07:12:02 AM
We hardly ever hit ourselves with bombs because we're in a high defensive mode not only to guard against each other but the hostile environment being created by walking bombs
All items: best played with four players or even three because with two it becomes and arms race, but even then there is little luck because a good player will know the pros and cons of a weapon. With four players though its just more fun. And with skill you can still come out on top. throwing items is useless because every thing is caught. If you miss the catch it wasn't due to bad luck its due to not having the timing to catch it properly. You must also decide to catch items or reflect them somewhere else? skillful players know what to do and when.
With that said i'd also like to point out some rules we always play under that you can't alter in the game.
We do not ever ledge guard, EVER, since the days of the days of the original game.
We do not snake kills either. If i work hard to send a foe flying and you get the point because you used fox to hit him with his blaster then you are going to pay!
we do not team up in free for alls. When one player is eliminated it becomes difficult but we try our best to interrupt ourselves from teaming against a single player.
And lastly we never steal opponents. this kinda goes with double teaming and snakeing. In 4 player matches, you hit the one closest to you at the start and you keep on then till the end or until two players are killed at the same time. Then the two respawned players face off. Rinse and repeat.
Thats how we used to play smash and the victor was always the more skilled player. Good players are good under any circumstances. Period.
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2007, 07:14:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Fighting with no items is the best way to see raw skill. Items tend to help the player and that is a handicap (plus quicker players tend to get more items)."
Wrong, wrong, WRONG...Considering there isn't a single designated spawn point for items, there is absolutely no way a single player can monopolize all the items on the map...And if you have trouble fighting someone who is using items against you, you don't have a right to consider yourself "pro" in the first place...
That's why I put the word "TEND" in the sentence "quicker players TEND to get more items." Also, did I ever use the word abbreviation "pro?" Your bringing up something that wasn't in my argument in the first place. All I'm talking about is scientifically, what is the best way to EVENLY judge a person's skill.
Quote
You are basically saying "Fighting without items is skill" and then are turning around and saying "Items are luck," without realizing it takes skill not only to utilize items to your advantage, but also skill to deal with how your opponents themselves utilize them...
I didn't say anything of the sort. There you go putting words in my mouth.
I have no preference one way or another. I am looking at this as objectively as possible.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 22, 2007, 07:15:26 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 07:25:10 AM
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 22, 2007, 07:36:06 AM
When we play with more people (we usually only play one on one when we're alone), it'll usually be with items. Of course, we're usually the last standing, each of us with five lives left while everyone else is dead. But we all have fun playing, and they even enjoy watching us fight each other. Just watching us is intense.
I like without items just as much as with. Using items certainly takes skill, and there's certainly techniques that can be used with them (I barely ever use them; even when they're available I'll just grab them and throw them at an opponent or off the side of the stage. That's why I like items like motion sensors and stuff, because I can use them immediately. One of the few items I'll hold and keep is a beam sword, and even then only occasionally), but the two modes of play are different in a lot of ways. I'm not going to make some definitive statement on what is "pro" or not, cuz I think the entire idea is ridiculous, but I personally feel more challenged and more engaged without items, on final destination. Items cause more chaos, so the game becomes less about fighting and more about keeping your wits about you and surviving. A different skill entirely.
When my friends do play with items, we usually turn off items like healing items, pokeballs, and a few other things. Murk often turns off star wands because I discovered that Fox's shield can't deflect them. :P
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 07:42:00 AM
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2007, 07:42:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Well that's all true to a certain point, but even then your omitting some items (i.e. the [star and/or heart). [Omitting some of items, any items] is an act of segregation which bring us to a whole new topic: what items are fair and what items are not?
Getting rid of them all is the only reasonable conclusion, and by default, is the only way to consistently judge a person's skill.
Or, of course, the exact opposite.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 07:54:15 AM
I wasn't quoting you, and my argument never was on my usage of "pro" in the first place (which I quoted for my own little dig at those who consider themselves to be pro Smash players)...It was on your saying that playing without items is how you judge skill, which I disagree with...
"I didn't say anything of the sort. There you go putting words in my mouth."
You did! You said playing without items is the best way to judge skill, and that items are handicaps!
My argument here is that items are NOT objects of luck and handicap like "pro" players like to say, but instead are important tools to judge the true skill of a Smash player, both offensively and defensively...
Post by: Maverick on July 22, 2007, 12:48:56 PM
Now, personally, I can't stand Snipers in online death matches, but that's because I suck at shooters for the most part.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 12:56:36 PM
, it's just that I find it silly that they think it's the best way to play or determine skill...So I'm not so much attacking no-items as I am defending items...)
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2007, 01:01:26 PM
I shouldn't have given two sh!ts in the first place.
Anyway, the game looks great, sounds great, and hopefully, plays great. If it has online, I can't wait to play anyone here I've been talking to for years; even if it demoralizes me.
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 01:08:52 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 22, 2007, 01:11:39 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 22, 2007, 01:13:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
LOL. The biggest problem with having an opinion is that everyone else has one too. And THEN you have to go to the problem of supporting it and defending it and thinking rationally and making educated arguments... all this thinking is hard work, and I'm sure a lot of people don't believe it's worth the effort!
I disagree. Please tell me why I should agree.
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 01:14:34 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 22, 2007, 01:15:32 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 01:18:53 PM
The international tournaments for SSBM play by the following rule set: 4 lives, 8 minute timer, no items, with specific designated stages of play.
These tournaments are usually held for large sums of money and are sponsored, hence making it "professional" level gaming.
Again I'm just saying where the whole pro style play comes from.
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 01:26:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
There wasn't enough funny!
The internet is for quotes.
Quote
Cat Stevens
“I always knew looking back on my tears would bring me laughter, but I never knew looking back on my laughter would make me cry.”
Quote
Friedrich Nietzsche
“Perhaps I know best why it is man alone who laughs; he alone suffers so deeply that he had to invent laughter.”
Quote
Robert Louis Stevenson
“You can forgive people who do not follow you through a philosophical disquisition; but to find your wife laughing when you had tears in your eyes, or staring when you were in a fit of laughter, would go some way towards a dissolution of the marriage.”
*disclaimer: I know nothing about the above people... though I'm sure wikipedia does!
Post by: UERD on July 22, 2007, 01:43:45 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 01:48:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
Introducing...SUPER SMASH PHILOSOPHERS MELEE! ... Coming to the Wii® this fall! Pre-order your copy today!
Who's publishing? If it's Majesco, I'm buying two.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 22, 2007, 02:16:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Just to point out WHERE these "pro" rules come from . . . (and I'm not saying it's the only way to play but merely pointing out this is why the no items rule-set is considered "pro" play)
The international tournaments for SSBM play by the following rule set: 4 lives, 8 minute timer, no items, with specific designated stages of play.
These tournaments are usually held for large sums of money and are sponsored, hence making it "professional" level gaming.
Again I'm just saying where the whole pro style play comes from.
Thanks, but my next question would be were the rules generally used before this big association adopted them, or did the association make the rules themselves?
One more thing though, could you please tell me why a match would need to go on for eight minutes? It seems a bit much for a one on one match (or a two on two). I mean damn, do most Smash players turtle the whole time or what
. I have known about all the rest of the rules for a while, but I guess that the time limit never really entered my field of vision.
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 02:27:27 PM
Personally, I go with 6 life stock matches, all items either on or off at normal frequency, completely random level.
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 02:33:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
There's nothing wrong with organizational standard rule sets. If a lot of people want to create a league and go with 4 person, 8 minute, no item matches, that's fine. Just don't fool yourself into thinking they're somehow magically universal.
Personally, I go with 6 life stock matches, all items either on or off at normal frequency, completely random level.
I wasn't fooling myself at all into thinking it's universal or universally excepted per say (clearly from the discussion at hand). I was merely stating where the pro rules come from in regards to the whole no item discussion / pro discussion.
Personally, I go with 10 life stock matches, all items off, no time limit and final destination level for my most intense 1v1 matches.
(Edit: and to answer a previous question I think the 8 minutes comes from the doubling of lives the player has. I guess they figure an average maximum of 2 minutes per life)
Post by: Kraven on July 22, 2007, 02:55:42 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 22, 2007, 03:00:46 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 22, 2007, 03:12:48 PM
Personally I would like to see the personalized character introductions from the original SSB make a return, as well as ending screens like those from the original (the Earthbound one freaking rocked).
Post by: Hostile Creation on July 22, 2007, 04:22:31 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 08:03:49 PM
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat stage GET!
(Hmmm, I wonder if there really are climbing animations or if Mario was stuck there by the person screencapping...)
Post by: Sarail on July 22, 2007, 08:06:01 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 22, 2007, 08:09:34 PM
Post by: IceCold on July 22, 2007, 08:09:45 PM
It looks a bit generic compared to the beauty that was Jungle Beat, but the same could be said about the Sunshine stage. It doesn't bother me much though.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 22, 2007, 08:09:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Oh, yes! Reminds me of the Ice Climbers level.. except this one will be quite playable as opposed to the previous. I wonder what Sakurai is suggesting by that last quote, though? :P
I wonder...
Post by: Stogi on July 22, 2007, 08:11:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Rumble Falls!
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat stage GET!
(Hmmm, I wonder if there really are climbing animations or if Mario was stuck there by the person screencapping...)
Little dudes definitely climbing that ladder.
Edit: I see........
Post by: anubis6789 on July 22, 2007, 08:18:12 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 22, 2007, 08:18:23 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 22, 2007, 08:27:37 PM
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2007, 01:45:10 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 01:55:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Now that I think about the fact that ladders may be a new feature, the more I believe that it would be a crime if there is not a stage based on any of the stages from the original arcade Donkey Kong.
I'm fully expecting a DK Arcade level, even if it's only a minigame or stage in Adventure Mode...If not, I'll cry!
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 23, 2007, 01:56:48 AM
Personally, I loved the Ice Climbers level, because it was a moving level that was pretty easy to fight in and create some strategy. While some of the later moving levels were too hard to do that.
The one thing I didn't like about Ice Climbers was that random speed up of the climbing of the level...I felt that was out of place for the level, though I understood where the influence came from.
I don't think this level will have that which is awesome. I also think there is much more variety in the platforming of this level which will add to it being more enjoyable...each full screen scroll will bring completely new level elements to fight through and around.
Post by: LuigiHann on July 23, 2007, 05:45:58 AM
With the ladders and platforms, though, this level looks sort of like a combination of old-school and new-school DK styles.
I also like that this seems to be a combination of the good elements of the Ice Climbers level and the Rainbow Ride level of Melee.
I hope they don't bring back the DK Rap.
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 05:49:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHann
I hope they don't bring back the DK Rap.
I hope so as well. The DK rap is something that should be locked away in a vault forever and never heard again and should be stricken from all previous games.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 23, 2007, 06:11:49 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 06:49:28 AM
As for the music in this stage, I think it'd be the logical thing to predict the Rumble Falls theme, but I hope the music from Arie Fortress makes it in instead...
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 23, 2007, 08:52:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
Yes, the classic first level of DK NEEDS to be in the game. Let's of barrels, lot's of ladders, Pauline and the whole shebang. Need it.
I agree, but I would rather it be in Adventure mode, and it actually be the original 4 levels of DK. Redesigned...to require double jumps over barrels, or at least disable double jumps.
Barrels of course would be inmmune to attacks as well. It would be one of the greatest Adventure Mode levels in the game.
Post by: vudu on July 23, 2007, 08:52:38 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2007, 09:06:04 AM
A little off topic there.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 09:07:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vudu
I'd like to propose that whoever is the first to post a comment regarding the daily update must link to said update.
But the latest update is always on the same page!
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 09:08:58 AM
"Super Smash Bros. Brawl! Please select your characters . . .
EMOOOOO STARRRRRR PRINCESSSS!" *exaggerated drawn out yell of name ala MARIIIOOOOO from Melee*
Post by: vudu on July 23, 2007, 09:09:06 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2007, 09:14:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol Emo Star princess . . . is that her formal name? =)
"Super Smash Bros. Brawl! Please select your characters . . .
EMOOOOO STARRRRRR PRINCESSSS!" *exaggerated drawn out yell of name ala MARIIIOOOOO from Melee*
lol. We can call her Esprin for short.
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 09:18:46 AM
"Esprin I choose you! . . . wait why are you already damaged? Ugh were you cutting yourself again!?"
Did I go too far? lemme know . . . lol.
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2007, 09:20:36 AM
Though what is the antithesis of emo anyways? Opera loving upbeat people? She could really be that.
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 09:30:14 AM
Post by: Sarail on July 23, 2007, 12:57:33 PM
Post by: UERD on July 23, 2007, 01:00:51 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 01:02:00 PM
Post by: UERD on July 23, 2007, 01:04:23 PM
Post by: vudu on July 23, 2007, 01:40:06 PM
QuoteBut you can still link to the direct entry, like this, so when someone reads this a few days after the update they can figure out what the Hell everyone's talking about.
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: vudu
I'd like to propose that whoever is the first to post a comment regarding the daily update must link to said update.
But the latest update is always on the same page!
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 23, 2007, 02:35:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UERD
Actually, it would be pretty awesome. Which is why they're going to Photoshop out the screen and leave only the cursor.
Agreed. I'd like to see how many we're looking at.
Honestly, I'd prefer fewer characters and better balance and uniqueness to more characters and more commonality and tiers.
Post by: mantidor on July 23, 2007, 02:52:21 PM
edit:
oops wrong thread this is the first time this ever happened to me! I feel like a finally earned my geek badge
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 02:53:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidor
There's no point of listening to Ebert, he doesn't play games! seriously, why should we care about it? bring me someone who actually plays a lot of games and don't consider them art.
*checks thread*
Almost fooled me there for a second.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 03:05:07 PM
SMASHDATE
(Oops, I forgot to add the very first day of updates with the Battlefield stage...If there are any other mistakes, let me know...)
Post by: UERD on July 23, 2007, 03:15:00 PM
Quote
Honestly, I'd prefer fewer characters and better balance and uniqueness to more characters and more commonality and tiers.
Yeah, to be honest I feel the same way. I'd rather Nintendo put fewer, more 'diverse' characters in that are balanced, fair, and fun to play, than make SSBB into some sort of fanservice wank filled with dozens of crappy clone characters. (Although the game is a fanservice wank to begin with, there's no reason why it can't be a fanservice wank with good gameplay).
Quote
There's no point of listening to Ebert, he doesn't play games! seriously, why should we care about it? bring me someone who actually plays a lot of games and don't consider them art.
Bullcrap! All the time you uncultured brutes spend on video games could be used to try to reason out why an orange carpet, a urinal with a placard, a pile of dung, and a bunch of live fish in blenders all count as modern art masterpieces.
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2007, 03:16:52 PM
Coins Bad...
You will now use the Claw and all the trophies will be huddled together.
...Your Master the Claw Good
I Have Been Chosen!
Once the Trophy is in hand you make a throwing motion with the Wiimote to summon your contender into battle.
Mario! You are a Goooooo!!!!!
How Exciting.
Post by: Mashiro on July 23, 2007, 03:18:44 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 23, 2007, 03:22:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 03:38:22 PM
How to Play
5/22 - The Basic Rules
5/29 - What is a Final Smash?
5/30 - Moving and Shooting
6/06 - You must recover!
7/05 - Smash Attacks
7/09 - Standard Combos
Game Modes
6/08 - Four Kinds of Control - Wiimote/+Nunchuk/Classic/Gamecube Controllers
6/28 - Names - Custom controls attached to player profile
7/20 - This World... - ??? (Story/Adventure Mode?)
Characters
5/23 - Mario; Link
5/25 - Pit
6/07 - Pikachu; Kirby
6/11 - Fox McCloud
6/15 - Samus Aran
6/20 - Wario
6/25 - Zelda
7/03 - Bowser
7/12 - Donkey Kong
7/19 - Zero Suit Samus
7/24 - Yoshi
Lacking profile
Metaknight
Snake
Lyle (so says mantidor the Nintendoz insider)
Special Moves
5/28 - Pit - (B) Palutena Arrow ~ (Up+B) Wings of Icarus
6/21 - Fox McCloud - (B) Blaster ~ (Down+B) Reflector
6/29 - Wario - (Over+B) Wario Chopper ~ (Down+B) Wario Waft
Final Smash
5/29 - Mario - Mario Finale
6/18 - Link - Triforce Slash
6/19 - Pikachu - Volt Tackle
7/04 - Bowser - Giga Bowser Transformation
7/18 - Samus - Zero Laser
Lacking profile
Kirby - Chef Kirby
Stages
5/22 - Battlefield
6/01 - Delfino Plaza (Mario Sunshine)
6/12 - Yoshi's Island
6/22 - Lylat Cruise (Starfox)
7/06 - Bridge of Eldin (Twilight Princess)
7/13 - Smashville (Animal Crossing)
7/23 - Rumble Falls (Donkey Kong Jungle Beat)
7/25 - Skyworld (Kid Icarus)
Lacking profile
Castle (Fire Emblem)
Castle Interior (Fire Emblem?)
Mario Circuit (Mario Kart)
The Halberd (Kirby Super Star)
Pokemon Stadium
Shadow Moses (Metal Gear Solid)
Items
5/24 - Gooey Bomb - New Item - SSB Exclusive
5/29 - Smash Ball - New Item - SSB Exclusive
5/31 - Cracker Launcher - New Item - SSB Exclusive
6/05 - Pokeballs/Groudon - Return Item/New Pokemon - Pokemon Ruby
6/14 - Crates/Barrels - Return Item - SSB Exclusive (Or every 360/PS3 game ever, *boomtisk*)
6/27 - Banana Peel - New Item - Mario Kart
7/02 - Samurai Goro - Assist Trophy - F-Zero
7/10 - Dr. Wright - Assist Trophy - SimCity
7/11 - Bumper - Return Item (Original SSB) - SSB Exclusive
7/17 - Deoxys - New Pokemon - Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire
Lacking profile
Hammer Bros. (Assist Trophy)
Nintendog (Assist Trophy)
Music
5/22 - Battlefield Theme - SSBM Menu 1 - Motoi Sakuraba & Hirokazu Ando
6/04 - Yoshi's Story Credits - Yoshi's Story - Masafumi Takada & Kazumi Totaka
6/13 - Ridley's Battle Theme - Super Metroid - Minako Hamano & Yusuke Takahama
6/26 - Legend of Zelda: OoT Medley - Ocarina of Time - Michiko Naruke & Koji Kondo
7/16 - Space Armada - Starfox - Kenji Ito & Hajime Hirasawa
(Edit: Thanks to Ceric for providing the links so I didn't have to dig them up...=D)
Post by: mantidor on July 23, 2007, 04:15:30 PM
Lyle confirmed playable.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 23, 2007, 04:30:30 PM
I put 5 bucks on my copy
. I hope it has online, even if its just 2 on 2. That's going to be the determining factor in my full purchase.
Post by: IceCold on July 23, 2007, 06:28:11 PM
QuoteYES! I've said it before, but that music is incredible..
As for the music in this stage, I think it'd be the logical thing to predict the Rumble Falls theme, but I hope the music from Arie Fortress makes it in instead...
It's Aerie Fortress, though..
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 06:41:44 PM
Prediction time! I say there will be a new addition to the Special Moves or Items (regular items) category tonight...
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 08:08:01 PM
Italian site because English isn't up yet for some reason...
(Edit: Now it is!)
Post by: IceCold on July 23, 2007, 08:09:28 PM
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2007, 08:11:54 PM
Post by: Dasmos on July 23, 2007, 08:14:03 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 23, 2007, 08:16:29 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 23, 2007, 08:23:50 PM
Quote
He can launch consecutive attacks and even smack around enemies below him mid-flight.
I wonder what all that means,and why is he ridding DK in the bottom right picture?
Well at least he has some sort of third jump now, although that kind of kills some of his uniqueness as a fighter, but the consecutive attack comment may be a new unique trait. I wonder, now that Yoshi has a third jump will his second jump still have the super armor-esque attribute that it did in SSBM?
Post by: Caterkiller on July 23, 2007, 08:54:28 PM
And come on, if thats not a shell on its back then what the heck is it?
I don't think Yoshi has a 3rd jump this time around either. I believe he just meant that throwing eggs while falling will move him closer to the stage.
Post by: Smoke39 on July 23, 2007, 11:55:31 PM
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 24, 2007, 01:17:04 AM
Quote
And come on, if thats not a shell on its back then what the heck is it?
It's a saddle for Mario to ride, right?
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 01:48:25 AM
Post by: Dasmos on July 24, 2007, 02:19:47 AM
Post by: Strell on July 24, 2007, 02:23:08 AM
I also don't really care for the uber-cute Yoshi. I like the grittier characters for Brawl because...well it is for fighting after all.
Besides, the Smash series seems to contain the best character models for Nintendo mascots, and I always wondered why they aren't just used everywhere. I remember thinking the Sunshine Mario didn't compare to the Smash version (let's not even mention the abortions that are the Mario Party versions).
I don't even think "grittier" needs to be done. Donkey Kong from Jungle Beat was awesome - he had this sort of anxious hero look to him, with his looks of semi-worry/"We're in a tight spot" sort of thing. These were counterbalanced (very well, I might add) by his crazy smiles. I thought that was the perfect persona for him to embody, and he looked tens time better than the Smash version, which was a lot more goofy. I guess I just like it when the personalities seem a little less extreme one way or the other.
Oh well. I'm not going to let it bother me.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 24, 2007, 02:33:33 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 02:59:13 AM
And there's really no point for it to be "textured" when it's never had much of a texture to begin with...
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 03:03:35 AM
He looks graphically good but I haven't liked Yoshi since the abomination that was Yoshi's Story. Oh well yay for characters.
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 03:10:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
But Yoshi isn't gritty.
Neither is Mario.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 24, 2007, 03:15:36 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 03:26:34 AM
Yoshi's Island had a perfect blend of being cute and quirky without it being too overbearing but Yoshi's Story just completely killed it.
Edit: Wow that word is forbidden! >.>
Double Edit: Bring back classic yoshi as a hidden character!!!
Post by: Dasmos on July 24, 2007, 03:32:52 AM
QuoteYou're right, Yoshi needs great big claws and sharp teeth. And what about scales, Yoshi's a dinosaur right so where are his scales?
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
But Yoshi isn't gritty.
Neither is Mario.
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 24, 2007, 03:33:26 AM
Yoshi shared the bottom tier in SSBM for many good reasons, and one of those was the fact that he was easy to keep off ledges if you just kept knocking him away since he had no up+B to save him, whereas hitting other characters grants them an additional up+B.
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 04:07:52 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 24, 2007, 04:18:13 AM
Snake would look hilarious...
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 04:25:52 AM
Damn it though, I know it won't be in the game so now I will just have to imagine snake looking like that.
Snake: "Commander, what the hell am I supposed to do with this thing? It looks like a . . . watermelon?"
Roy Campbell: "Snake you've been in retirement for too long! Don't tell me you've forgotten how to use the watermelon weapon! Although you did need an explanation on how to climb ladders and such . . ."
Snake: "Commander I don't have time for this! Tell me how to use this weapon! I have a dinosaur...thing, a yellow rodent and a giant ape about to kill me!"
Roy Campbell: "Shove the whole damned thing in your mouth Snake and spit out the seeds!"
Snake: " . . . God I hate my life."
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 24, 2007, 05:36:13 AM
Yoshi, I think is a very simplistic cartoon character. His design doesn't need much detail, because it is really all about the personality. And from what I see they have definitely added more personality to his character and animations.
Overall, I like the design. I loved the saddle/turtle shell on his back was a nice touch.
It appears that Yoshi is one of the characters getting major tweaks. The Turtle Shell toss giving him some helpful jumping ability is nice...and I hope that it means he can throw downwards, because that would add some devious technique to the egg tossing.
I am really starting to get excited about re-learning the characters all over again. I have a feeling that all the characters are going to be tweaked and hopefully all of them will feel fresh and exciting.
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 05:39:42 AM
Quote
I loved the saddle/turtle shell on his back was a nice touch.
Just for reference he's always had that on his back =)
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 24, 2007, 05:55:04 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 24, 2007, 06:57:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
But Yoshi isn't gritty.
Neither is Mario.
O RLY?
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 08:05:49 AM
Also I know their is a better Realistic Mario Pic its been posted before.
That pictures makes me want the ability to catch and redirect things like bullet bills and the like with the bigger/stronger characters.
I guess on Yoshi I just wanted a little more definition. Like I'm fairly sure those little rounded spikes on his back aren't squishy. They could have had some feature. Though his shoes do have treads and the hands area a little weird.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 09:54:15 AM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 10:01:33 AM
Maybes it's the boots or those big eyes. I can't quite put my finger on it.......
I KNOW! It's his little tail. Why is it so small? How is it suppose to provide balance to his enormous head?
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 10:01:44 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 10:03:43 AM
As for his tail supporting his big head...His nose is actually a giant hollow sphere filled with helium! =O
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 10:05:35 AM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 10:12:12 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 10:17:18 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 10:19:40 AM
Pure magic Bill . .. pure magic.
. . .
ANYWAY! Back to Brawl discussion! =D
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 10:19:43 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 10:22:13 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 10:23:28 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 24, 2007, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 10:32:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
The truth lies in our Avatars . . . just look at how they look at each other!
Pure magic Bill . .. pure magic.
. . .
ANYWAY! Back to Brawl discussion! =D
HHAHAHAHAHA...hahahaha....haha........hah......ha.........*sniffs*..................*wipes tear*..............what was that?!
Quote
oh uhhh never mind then . . .>.>
Burned so bad!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 24, 2007, 10:42:13 AM
Anyone that wants Yoshi to be realistic, here's your damn realistic Yoshi.
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 10:47:02 AM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 10:49:38 AM
I just want his tail to be a little bigger that's all.
Post by: therat on July 24, 2007, 11:07:36 AM
Post by: Grant10k on July 24, 2007, 11:22:30 AM
from the BEST (this is sarcasm) movie ever made about Super Mario Brothers
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 02:59:45 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 03:27:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wow...I can't believe how many people are looking at cartoon at analyzing the design for form and function. He is a cartoon. If you start criticizing everything you will live a miserable life...or something like that.
I enjoy talking about cartoons. Most good cartoon characters have a well thought out design and in one episode of a good cartoon will not waste any part of it because it just be more work for the animators. Anyway another time and place.
Now on Yoshi's tail. His tail could be made out of Bismuth unless its radioactive. Though he was originally a way to save space.
Post by: Kairon on July 24, 2007, 03:45:33 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 03:57:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wow...I can't believe how many people are looking at cartoon at analyzing the design for form and function. He is a cartoon. If you start criticizing everything you will live a miserable life...or something like that.
I enjoy talking about cartoons. Most good cartoon characters have a well thought out design and in one episode of a good cartoon will not waste any part of it because it just be more work for the animators. Anyway another time and place.
Now on Yoshi's tail. His tail could be made out of Bismuth unless its radioactive. Though he was originally a way to save space.
God. That's even more retarded (though delightfully clever).
Paradox?
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 04:05:43 PM
Post by: mantidor on July 24, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Grant10k
Joining the post-a-realistic-mario/yoshi bandwagon...
[IMG]http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0905/9.jpg[IMG]
from the BEST (this is sarcasm) movie ever made about Super Mario Brothers
why the super mario movie is an underappreciated masterpiece
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 04:29:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Grant10k
Joining the post-a-realistic-mario/yoshi bandwagon...
[IMG]http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0905/9.jpg[IMG]
from the BEST (this is sarcasm) movie ever made about Super Mario Brothers
why the super mario movie is an underappreciated masterpiece
I read through that . . . and that was awesome lol!
Creepy about the WTC shot though, completely forgot about that part in the film.
Post by: Ceric on July 24, 2007, 04:36:34 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 24, 2007, 05:01:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Grant10k
Joining the post-a-realistic-mario/yoshi bandwagon...
[IMG]http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0905/9.jpg[IMG]
from the BEST (this is sarcasm) movie ever made about Super Mario Brothers
why the super mario movie is an underappreciated masterpiece
I read through that . . . and that was awesome lol!
Creepy about the WTC shot though, completely forgot about that part in the film.
I don't remember half the character references he mentioned. Maybe its time i buy the dvd.
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 05:04:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCureQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: mantidorQuote
Originally posted by: Grant10k
Joining the post-a-realistic-mario/yoshi bandwagon...
[IMG]http://www.x-entertainment.com/articles/0905/9.jpg[IMG]
from the BEST (this is sarcasm) movie ever made about Super Mario Brothers
why the super mario movie is an underappreciated masterpiece
I read through that . . . and that was awesome lol!
Creepy about the WTC shot though, completely forgot about that part in the film.
I don't remember half the character references he mentioned. Maybe its time i shoot myself in the face.
fixed.
Bill: Don't tell me that you really do think his tail is adequate. It looks like he has a pointy ass.
Post by: EasyCure on July 24, 2007, 05:12:41 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 05:21:12 PM
I have eaten watermelon in the shower. I have drank beer and taken shots in the shower just to save some time. I've definitely been on the phone in the shower. I've been domed up in the shower.....
That place is my home within a home.
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 05:22:28 PM
Quote
I have drank beer and taken shots in the shower just to save some time.
Post by: Stogi on July 24, 2007, 05:31:17 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 24, 2007, 05:36:07 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 24, 2007, 07:31:50 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 24, 2007, 08:05:28 PM
....the floor falling out seems interesting.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 08:06:07 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 24, 2007, 08:06:51 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 24, 2007, 08:09:06 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 24, 2007, 08:09:45 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 24, 2007, 08:30:34 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on July 25, 2007, 12:31:44 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 25, 2007, 01:13:32 AM
Which has me happy. (Simply because with 4 people spread out the camera always pulled too far back and it made it hard to see the action).
Edit: Why do they make all the screenshots so small? Come on web site people, give us nice big screens when we click on those pics!
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2007, 01:48:22 AM
I can't believe that they would allow for the whole stage to be destructible like they are implying. Mario does his Final Smash and takes out everywhere to land. Even for him...
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2007, 01:53:28 AM
Also worth nothing if nobody is keeping count we have 14 confirmed playable characters (Not counting Zero-Suit because we don't know if she is connected to Samus 100% or not.)
I personally think these daily updates are much more informative and interesting way to release data on Brawl instead of an E3 appearance.
Post by: Mashiro on July 25, 2007, 02:03:54 AM
I like the level design so far for the reason you game Spak, in that they are basic but really not basic. I like how I already know I will be fighting on various stages more so than in say Melee where some stages (while cool) just weren't fun to fight on per say. I get a real "We know what works and what doesn't work" vibe from these updates and that's always a good thing.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 25, 2007, 02:11:09 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 25, 2007, 02:15:57 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 25, 2007, 04:13:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Also worth noting is that so far we only have 8 levels shown, and those 8 are going to be the most basic levels so far, and they really aren't basic at all. They each add something new to Smash Bros, even if they keep the traditional flat ground, 3 platform layout.
Well, there's been 14 stages shown, several of which we have a fairly decent idea of how they work... =)
Castle (Fire Emblem) - Appears to be somewhat basic, but there's a little hump in the middle that players could get stuck against and a sloped side, plus the possibility of being nailed by incoming catapulted objects...
Castle Interior (Fire Emblem?) - Basic (for what we know now)...Statues holding up platforms (could end up more than this)...
Mario Circuit (Mario Kart) - Probably works like Mute City/Delfino, with a platform taking you to multiple sections of the track...The question is whether or not these sections are varied in design...
The Halberd (Kirby Super Star) - Basic (though it's possible you might fight inside the Halberd at some point)...
Pokemon Stadium - I assume this will start off "basic," before transforming into different stages like in Melee
Shadow Moses (Metal Gear Solid) - Sadly we've only got a few shots in the second trailer of this...However, Snake appears to be on a fairly high level in the "snow area" and ZSS and Snake are on a lower interior area in the second shot...I'd think it was the same stage, but we'll see...
Post by: Pittbboi on July 25, 2007, 04:43:32 AM
).I'm really disappointed with Pit's level. This is Pit's first major appearance in a game since the 80s, and that's supposed to be SKYWORLD, for crying out loud! It doesn't look bad, but for Pit's grand return to gaming they could have least given his stage a little more than random platforms against a generic Greco-Roman backdrop. I mean, come on...Pelunta's palace in the sky, people!
But, then again, we've only seen a handful of what I'm sure will be dozens of stages in the final game. So there's PLENTY of opportunities for Brawl to wow us.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 25, 2007, 05:57:40 AM
Post by: Mysticspike on July 25, 2007, 06:07:56 AM
Post by: MLS_man_64 on July 25, 2007, 05:40:50 PM
Notice a certain blue logo on the box art?
Post by: Kairon on July 25, 2007, 05:51:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MLS_man_64
http://www.ebgames.com.au/wii/product.cfm?ID=7566
Notice a certain blue logo on the box art?
I don't trust 'em! Could be a photoshop!
Post by: anubis6789 on July 25, 2007, 08:13:46 PM
Post by: Adrock on July 25, 2007, 08:14:20 PM
Post by: Arbok on July 25, 2007, 08:18:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I really like this new footstool jump technique. It makes jumping back onto the platform a bit more interesting and I have a feeling that this is going to be a very important (and difficult) technique to master. This could be very interesting in team matches.
Sounds like edge guarding just got a huge boost against... well, Yoshi I guess, since he's the only one without a secondary, offensive or teleportation style jump. I could also see this causing some trouble for Ness, depending on how close he was to the edge when he tried to PK thunder.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 25, 2007, 08:25:29 PM
By the way, does anyone else find the name "footstool jump" a little silly sounding? I think that it would have sounded better for it to be called the spring hop or something else in that vane, but it could just be me.
Post by: Dasmos on July 25, 2007, 08:27:33 PM
QuoteNo, no it doesn't.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Well this explains why Yoshi was riding DK.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 25, 2007, 08:31:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteNo, no it doesn't.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Well this explains why Yoshi was riding DK.
If you look at the picture of Yoshi on DK, and then the picture of Yoshi on Wario, you will notice that Yoshi is in the same position in each picture... man, reading that back to myself just sounded dirty in ways that I did not think possible when discussing Nintendo characters.
Post by: Dasmos on July 25, 2007, 08:33:13 PM
QuoteCheck the link again.
Originally posted by: anubis6789Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteNo, no it doesn't.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Well this explains why Yoshi was riding DK.
If you look at the picture of Yoshi on DK, and then the picture of Yoshi on Wario, you will notice that Yoshi is in the same position in each picture... man, reading that back to myself just sounded dirty in ways that I did not think possible when discussing Nintendo characters.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 25, 2007, 08:35:14 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 25, 2007, 08:52:45 PM
Hmmm.......I wonder if Bill has an expert opinion about this? (Couldn't resist mate!)
P.S. I really hope every character has the ability to perform this move!
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 25, 2007, 11:49:34 PM
On a more serious note, this is definitely an awesome addition, and one of the first core gameplay modifications. This is definitely going to change the outcome of matches that include more than 2 players, and will possibly change up the 1v1 scene in the edge guarding department. I'm interested to see how the particulars of the move work and how it plays out in a match.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 26, 2007, 12:50:06 AM
"Sounds like edge guarding just got a huge boost against... well, Yoshi I guess, since he's the only one without a secondary, offensive or teleportation style jump"
Go back and read Yoshi's profile again... =)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 26, 2007, 01:51:36 AM
Post by: SalesBot on July 26, 2007, 01:58:40 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 26, 2007, 02:00:29 AM
Post by: Dasmos on July 26, 2007, 02:19:18 AM
QuoteYou don't know what a meteor smash is?
Originally posted by: Ceric
I could also see this move getting annoying if it stuns you even for a fraction of a second. Though I see the logic behind the edition. Now I want to know whats this Meteor Smash.
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 26, 2007, 03:07:29 AM
This little additional move has a very high risk-gain system that balances out any stunn that might occur. Though it might be fun to use this technique in the middle of two other combatants fighting.
Post by: Strell on July 26, 2007, 03:37:23 AM
Goomba cannot possibly be a character now.
Post by: Ceric on July 26, 2007, 03:46:04 AM
Yes I haven't heard the term Meteor Smash used and I've read all three or four incanation of this thread.
Post by: Strell on July 26, 2007, 03:50:18 AM
Generally these are smash attacks in the air, down-As. If you watch the demo video before Melee, you can see Mario doing this to Bowser.
It varies between characters. I think Fox/Falco's are their down-As.
This is all my personal understanding and I could be very wrong.
Post by: Mashiro on July 26, 2007, 03:53:20 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 26, 2007, 04:05:22 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 26, 2007, 05:04:15 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 26, 2007, 05:12:40 AM
Meteors don't have to be strong attacks, either. Just anything which will redirect an opponent's momentum downward.
Post by: Strell on July 26, 2007, 05:16:49 AM
A really good Smash player can actually jump out, perform a Meteor, and then recover back to the platform. They'll also guard the edge and do their meteors with short hops. Again, the demo of Mario slamming down Bowser is a good example. Bowser flies straight down. Kirby's down-B tends to actually send characters upward and/or just cause some damage - it doesn't actually cause a directional influence on where you get hit.
Meanwhile, Falco's jumping down-A smash is that spinning "needle kick," and if you guard the edge with it, chances are you're going to get the KO. Short hopping this meteor is particularly devastating because you'll normally just be out of right of an opponent's third jump attack, and be given priority when you hit them during your descent.
I guess you can recover from them, or maybe just the computer AI gets to cheat around it. The point is that a meteor is a devastating attack when you're pretty much over 50% - the chance of you recovering from one are slim.
Down-B attacks typically aren't meteors to my knowledge. I'm sure if you went to Gamefaqs they'll have guides for every character detailing exactly what their meteors are. Again, most of the time it's a down-A smash in midair.
Post by: Arbok on July 26, 2007, 05:42:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Sounds like edge guarding just got a huge boost against... well, Yoshi I guess, since he's the only one without a secondary, offensive or teleportation style jump"
Go back and read Yoshi's profile again... =)
Forgot about that.
Seems Sakurai and his team already considered that then.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Meteors, or "spikes" as they were called in my group, are basically any move which can knock an opponent straight downward.
Meteors don't have to be strong attacks, either. Just anything which will redirect an opponent's momentum downward.
About the jist of it, although generally the downward momentum is surprisingly fast, and very hard to recover from in any situation.
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Meanwhile, Falco's jumping down-A smash is that spinning "needle kick," and if you guard the edge with it, chances are you're going to get the KO. Short hopping this meteor is particularly devastating because you'll normally just be out of right of an opponent's third jump attack, and be given priority when you hit them during your descent.
I'd say that's one of the most lethal ones, depending on the opposing character. You don't even have to jump out, putting yourself in danger, to pull it off... just be near the edge when you strike the other player and it will send them crashing down. It's very hard for both Captain Falcon and Ganondorf to stop it if they are a fair distance away from the platform, as they can risk either the meteor strike or Falco simply grabbing the edge himself if they try to avoid it.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 26, 2007, 05:55:16 AM
Not all meteor smashes are aerial moves, either. I can't recall a down-B that's a meteor smash, but I know of a couple of B moves that are. Captain Falcon's forward-B in the air is one. The third hit of Roy's forward-B combo can be one if you hold up when you do it. Also, Luigi's pose is a meteor smash, and I have, in fact, pulled that off.
It's not entirely clear whether every character has a meteor smash, although some have more than one. The game itself points out that Mario has one on one of the trophies as if that's a trait that not all the fighters share.
Post by: Strell on July 26, 2007, 06:21:47 AM
I guess "spikes" are those attacks that make that specific sound play when you hit with 'em, like Jiggly's down B Sleep attack, Luigi's Up-B Uppercut (but only if you hit RIGHT at the beginning of the animation), etc.
Post by: Mashiro on July 26, 2007, 07:17:08 AM
uuuuuwweeeeeeuuuuuuuu!
Post by: Strell on July 26, 2007, 07:36:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Tonight's update will be Yoshi's final smash.
uuuuuwweeeeeeuuuuuuuu!
You probably just die from Cute Cancer.
Post by: Mashiro on July 26, 2007, 07:46:58 AM
Post by: LuigiHann on July 26, 2007, 07:56:38 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 26, 2007, 07:59:00 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 26, 2007, 08:13:50 AM
Post by: Shecky on July 26, 2007, 08:18:56 AM
Post by: Kairon on July 26, 2007, 08:30:19 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 26, 2007, 08:35:22 PM
I hope there's more Kirby characters. Waddle Doo would be great and the Hammer Guy (did we talk about him already?). The ice and fire guys wouldn't be good 'cause they'd be too much like pokemon.
I just hope that Dedede doesn't wind up as an assist like Samurai Goroh.
Post by: Mashiro on July 26, 2007, 08:40:10 PM
Fear the raw power of knuckle joe, fear!
Post by: Stogi on July 26, 2007, 08:40:53 PM
If so, -1,000,000 respect points.
Post by: Mashiro on July 26, 2007, 08:45:16 PM
Quote
Did you just say "Dedede" as in the Carlos Mencia "De-de-de"?
If so, -1,000,000 respect points.
Kashogi minus 1 Million respect points for not knowing whom Dedede is.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 26, 2007, 08:49:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Did you just say "Dedede" as in the Carlos Mencia "De-de-de"?
If so, -1,000,000 respect points.
You just performed the most epic fail in history.
Post by: Kairon on July 26, 2007, 08:58:06 PM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 27, 2007, 04:35:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
For the lazies.
Fixed.
With both assist trophies and pokéballs flying around, Brawl should be even more chaotic than Melee. It's no wonder they slowed things down a little.
Post by: nickmitch on July 27, 2007, 06:34:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Did you just say "Dedede" as in the Carlos Mencia "De-de-de"?
If so, -1,000,000 respect points.
Kashogi minus 1 Million respect points for not knowing whom Dedede is.
Agreed, while my respect points intact. For shame, Mashiro, for shame.
Post by: Arbok on July 27, 2007, 06:50:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Did you just say "Dedede" as in the Carlos Mencia "De-de-de"?
If so, -1,000,000 respect points.
Kashogi minus 1 Million respect points for not knowing whom Dedede is.
Agreed, while my respect points intact. For shame, Mashiro, for shame.
Wait, what did Mashiro do?
Post by: Mashiro on July 27, 2007, 07:44:51 AM
Post by: Elementos on July 27, 2007, 04:14:50 PM
~SUPER SMASH BROTHERS MELEEEEEEEE~
________
|Shaddup|
|/
Post by: nickmitch on July 27, 2007, 07:10:14 PM
Post by: Stogi on July 27, 2007, 08:07:11 PM
I've never played Kirby. I could never get into it.
Big marshmallow sucking in things that don't belong.......
Meh.....
Edit: By the way, I said "IF SO, then -1,000,000 respect points."
As in if not, then he's straight.
Post by: Stogi on July 27, 2007, 08:15:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Screencapped for posterity.
God I hate you Kairon.
Post by: Mashiro on July 28, 2007, 03:48:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Oh no, I made a boo-boo. KashogiStogi is the one deserving of shame. Mashiro you are only deserving of my apologies and (I suppose) a cookie.
^^!!!!
Post by: Sarail on July 28, 2007, 04:55:31 AM
Post by: Smoke39 on July 28, 2007, 06:26:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Meh.....
I've never played Kirby. I could never get into it.
Big marshmallow sucking in things that don't belong.......
Meh.....
At least try Kirby Super Star. All other Kirby games pale in comparison to it.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 28, 2007, 07:03:36 AM
Post by: Mashiro on July 28, 2007, 07:20:31 AM
The Kirby game on GBA (Kirby Nightmare in Dreamland) was also a lot of fun.
Post by: Stogi on July 28, 2007, 07:39:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
If you've never played it, how do you know if you could get into it or not?
I never played them entirely.
Better?
Post by: Strell on July 28, 2007, 08:03:29 AM
Post by: Khushrenada on July 28, 2007, 08:19:04 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 28, 2007, 08:30:58 AM
Post by: IceCold on July 28, 2007, 09:30:17 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 28, 2007, 10:10:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Maybe next week will reveal King Dedede as a playable character? I sure hope so. I think it's high time that Sakurai unveils a brand new character to Brawl. 96 more updates to go, right?
That's not going to happen until at least the end of September. Right now he's just unveiling the returning characters and the new characters we already knew about. When the games not coming out until December, there's no real point in revealing brand new never before seen character right now when there's still a ways to go.
We have to remember Nintendo normally doesn't reveal big info on their games until about 2 months or less before release. We're already lucky Sakurai is able to break that tradition with his daily updates but for the really big stuff like brand new characters, I'm sure that still falls under the whole month before release like a lot of Nintendo's other games.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 28, 2007, 02:04:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
The Yoshi Stampede, just like in Melee's intro movie.
That'd be the most AWESOME thing ever...
Post by: Shecky on July 29, 2007, 10:11:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill AurionQuote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
The Yoshi Stampede, just like in Melee's intro movie.
That'd be the most AWESOME thing ever...
... and they would need something to stampede in since you know... most of the levels have gaps on the edges.
Maybe a rainbow?
Heh, thought.... activate Yoshi's FSA and trace out the path for the stampede (with the character).
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 29, 2007, 05:02:48 PM
I just realized that.
Post by: Shecky on July 29, 2007, 05:15:33 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 05:16:25 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 29, 2007, 05:19:04 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 05:21:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Of course it's Yoshi. If it wasn't, they'd tell us. Who else could it be? ... BOSHI?!?!?
Boshi in SSBB CONFIRMED!
and Geno . . . and Mallow . . . pleassseeeeee Nintendo/Square pleasseeee
Post by: anubis6789 on July 29, 2007, 05:23:06 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 29, 2007, 05:27:45 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 05:31:43 PM
See the Mother Brain used to be the overlord of all the Yoshi and kept the hive-mind structure going for the society. However, when Samus destroyed Mother Brain in Super Metroid this hive-mind link was destroyed.
Thus Boshi came to be and was the first and only Yoshi to strive to be unique.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 05:33:20 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 29, 2007, 05:36:31 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 29, 2007, 06:19:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Well . . . there IS an explanation for Yoshi(s?) acting as individuals.
See the Mother Brain used to be the overlord of all the Yoshi and kept the hive-mind structure going for the society. However, when Samus destroyed Mother Brain in Super Metroid this hive-mind Link was destroyed.
Thus Boshi came to be and was the first and only Yoshi to strive to be unique.
No, no, no. Space-Pirate female Link was around at this time. Shoe was worshiped by the previous Space Pirates, the ones who followed Mother Brain until Samus, and eventually, she died from poisoning from her Master Sword's nuclear reactor. However, the sword managed to make a back-up of her consciousness, and the Space Pirates realized this. The sought for several years to learn a way to bring Link back, for she was the best pilot and most daring marauder they had ever known. Eventually, they found the Super Mario World, and, consequentially, Yoshi's Island. They met an ancient, dying tree, the Deku-fruit tree, that told them what they longed to hear: That Space-Pirate Female Link could upload her consciousness into the seed of this very tree. The Space Pirates immediately injected the sword into the seed, and at that very moment, the Happy Tree was born. The tree, which contains characteristics of the Deku-fruit tree and Space-Pirate Female Link, was able to assert its telekinetic powers to fundamentally alter the genetic code of all Space-Pirates. All but one became Yoshi, forever stuck in a mutual, but parasitic link with the tree. The one Space Pirate that resisted became Baby Bowser, a retarded freak of nature that reproduces asexually, but believes he needs a human female to mate, as his restructuring glitched, and Space-Pirate Female Link forever imprinted herself onto his soul. Princess Peach is Link's next incarnation, which does not aide this infatuation.
Thus, Bowser forever stalks the Happy Tree, as well as Princess Peach, and by association the Mushroom Kingdom. I hope that clears things up about Yoshi, Metroid, and Bowser. It all seems to click so well, so you know it has to be true.
Post by: Sarail on July 29, 2007, 07:33:31 PM
...amazing.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 07:56:11 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 29, 2007, 08:01:15 PM
Anyways, I'm just working on tying the entire Nintendo universe into one cohesive event.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 08:14:24 PM
And the update is 15 minutes late...I hope Sakurai didn't slip on a banana peel this morning...
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 29, 2007, 08:18:00 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 08:20:26 PM
Post by: that Baby guy on July 29, 2007, 08:24:49 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 29, 2007, 08:27:56 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2007, 08:28:32 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 08:29:07 PM
8 player online battle play or Sonic, Frog, Chrono and Cloud all being in the game.
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2007, 08:32:23 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 29, 2007, 08:33:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 08:34:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I think he's deciding which megaton announcement to make:
8 player online battle play or Sonic, Frog, Chrono and Cloud all being in the game.
Or a megaton like Fox being playable and Pokeballs being items, both of which were also late updates...
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 29, 2007, 08:42:18 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 29, 2007, 08:47:59 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 08:49:14 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2007, 08:56:46 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 09:00:06 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 29, 2007, 09:02:38 PM
BONGOS! OH GOD, THE BONGOS! =D
Post by: nickmitch on July 29, 2007, 09:03:18 PM
Post by: Mashiro on July 29, 2007, 09:07:43 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 29, 2007, 09:10:26 PM
.In all seriousness its really cool that they are acknowledging DK's bongo games, especially Donkey Konga.
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 29, 2007, 09:12:19 PM
Taa-daah!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 29, 2007, 09:18:53 PM
I wonder if ALL final smashes will become double edged knifes in moving stages...
Post by: Dasmos on July 29, 2007, 09:29:29 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 29, 2007, 09:41:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
This update confirms that Donkey Kong is the the ugliest character model in the game.
He doesn't look that bad in my opinion.
I do, however, think they should have used the Jungle Beat model. His fur is too bright brown.
Post by: Shecky on July 30, 2007, 12:52:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Did you guys also read about using the smash in scrolling stages?
I wonder if ALL final smashes will become double edged knifes in moving stages...
Yeah, but it might still work to your favor.... I mean it looks like DK's final smash holds other characters in it's effect... so if you all scroll off screen is that +3 for you and -1 for everybody? And having some sense while using these moves seems fair. If you on the fzero grand prix type stage, start this move on the track, and the main platform up and leaves. Well then the result of you being left behind is of your own consequence.
Post by: Pale on July 30, 2007, 05:04:07 AM
But I think it's awesome if it's yet another suicide move in DK's arsenal. Grabbing people and jumping to my death in melee is one of my favorite past times.
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 30, 2007, 05:18:38 AM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 05:30:36 AM
A discussion popped up about halfway through this toipic so far about DK's final smash.
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
He probably just whips out some bongos and makes everyone dance.
We need to capture this person and remove his brain as to further probe it and extract the prescient information we can about SSBB.
Also, I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the fact that Melee was released in America on December 3rd, 2001, exactly 6 years before Brawl. Obviously, since this is the third Smash Brothers game, and it is 6 years since the last one, 3....6.... triple 6. Super Smash Bros. Brawl is obviously a warning that the end is near, and we shall all prepare for the day of reckoning.
Post by: MaryJane on July 30, 2007, 05:35:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: insanolord
I have just finished going back through this whole topic, because I'm new here and I have that kind of time. Look what I found.
A discussion popped up about halfway through this toipic so far about DK's final smash.Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
He probably just whips out some bongos and makes everyone dance.
We need to capture this person and remove his brain as to further probe it and extract the prescient information we can about SSBB.
Also, I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the fact that Melee was released in America on December 3rd, 2001, exactly 6 years before Brawl. Obviously, since this is the third Smash Brothers game, and it is 6 years since the last one, 3....6.... triple 6. Super Smash Bros. Brawl is obviously a warning that the end is near, and we shall all prepare for the day of reckoning.
Now we just need a pig, a squirrel with a thousand eyes, and the EPA.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 05:43:45 AM
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 05:47:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MaryJaneQuote
Originally posted by: insanolord
I have just finished going back through this whole topic, because I'm new here and I have that kind of time. Look what I found.
A discussion popped up about halfway through this toipic so far about DK's final smash.Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
He probably just whips out some bongos and makes everyone dance.
We need to capture this person and remove his brain as to further probe it and extract the prescient information we can about SSBB.
Also, I don't believe that anyone has mentioned the fact that Melee was released in America on December 3rd, 2001, exactly 6 years before Brawl. Obviously, since this is the third Smash Brothers game, and it is 6 years since the last one, 3....6.... triple 6. Super Smash Bros. Brawl is obviously a warning that the end is near, and we shall all prepare for the day of reckoning.
Now we just need a pig, a squirrel with a thousand eyes, and the EPA.
More like the EBA. But seriously, I like this plan; it's better than the brain probing one.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 05:58:04 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 30, 2007, 08:04:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Pale
Man, who plays score mode? Stock all the way.
If that's directed at me, I'll have you know that I do not play score mode. The scores show up after every match regardless, so I use them to show off.
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 10:46:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: insanolord
Yes, but don't you think you're a little to biased on the subject of the brain probing plan to make an objective judgment? I don't think we should dismiss it too quickly.
If, ifs and buts were candy and nuts, etc, etc.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: SixthAngel on July 30, 2007, 01:01:45 PM
Hooking up words and phrases and clauses.
Conjunction Junction, how's that function?
I got three favorite cars
That get most of my job done.
Conjunction Junction, what's their function?
I got "and", "but", and "or",
They'll get you pretty far.
NEWCOMER: The Conjunction Junction Engineer
Post by: EasyCure on July 30, 2007, 01:57:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
vagina Junction, what's your function?
taking in sperm and spittin out babies
fixed
Post by: UERD on July 30, 2007, 02:38:33 PM
- Japan's health minister, Hakuo Yanagisawa
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 04:08:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: insanolord
Yes, but don't you think you're a little to biased on the subject of the brain probing plan to make an objective judgment? I don't think we should dismiss it too quickly.
[added emphasis]
Quote
Originally posted by: insanolord
I don't believe I used either of those conjunctions.
Yeah, I don't believe it either.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 04:15:38 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 04:36:19 PM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 04:48:05 PM
Post by: Ceric on July 30, 2007, 04:49:12 PM
Now can we get back to the subject at hand. I'm saying that the update will be either Music or Item.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 30, 2007, 04:54:19 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 04:57:17 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 30, 2007, 05:27:40 PM
I would be so unbelievably pissed.
Post by: Strell on July 30, 2007, 05:46:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I've just been thinking about what would happen if Brawl didn't have online play.
I would be so unbelievably pissed.
I wouldn't. I win the bet!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 30, 2007, 05:47:22 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 30, 2007, 06:20:50 PM
I'd love to see a mock-up box art for that game title. :P
Post by: Shecky on July 30, 2007, 06:42:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I hope it's Snake's profile. That way, the next character profile will be new (or old, but confirmed).
Except for.... oh .... meta knight?
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 07:31:57 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 30, 2007, 07:36:20 PM
Haven't had one of those in a while.
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 08:00:40 PM
Post by: Kairon on July 30, 2007, 08:01:58 PM
Post by: nickmitch on July 30, 2007, 08:06:46 PM
link
Post by: Sarail on July 30, 2007, 08:07:05 PM
Pitfalls from Animal Crossing! Much greatness abound! This item is going to be hilarious to use. Can't wait. Ooh! Just now thought of something... imagine using this in conjunction with a Gooey Bomb. Hah!
Post by: Arbok on July 30, 2007, 08:07:37 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 30, 2007, 08:11:59 PM
I wonder when Sakurai is going to reveal who the playable Animal Crossing character is going to be? My anticipation is killing me.
Post by: Kairon on July 30, 2007, 08:12:49 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 30, 2007, 09:15:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
So, ya know... we have this Animal Crossing "Smashville" stage, and now a "Pitfall" item.. and both have an Animal Crossing leaf as their emblem...
I wonder when Sakurai is going to reveal who the playable Animal Crossing character is going to be? My anticipation is killing me.
seriously...
though since the introduction of assist trophies i've doubted it would happen, but i'd love to be proven wrong!
to see an AC stage AND item make it into the game makes it almost a sure thing but i don't want to get my hopes up if it doesn't happen. So many great ideas on what an AC stage and character would play like were tossed around in the old SSBB thread, i think most of us on these boards would love to see some form of our ideas realized in the game.
my votes go to Resetti or Your character for the new brawlers
i guess i'd settle for tom nook...
Edit: looking back at the screens for Smashville i noticed Officer Copper and Booker are no where to be found... New duo character ala ice climbers??? hm..
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 12:34:36 AM
The more I think about it, and the more I look at the pictures in the Smashville update the more I think that maybe there will not be a AC character playable. If you look at the pictures you can tell that the AC characters are no taller than kirby which may present a problem with how they will function within the game as I see it. If the developers do implement an AC character, I am sure they have thought of every thing and it will be awesome; and maybe it will be the Ice Climbers-esque scenario EasyCure describes in which case I can see Copper standing on Booker's shoulders (but not the other way around, I do not think that Copper is strong enough) to give them some Height, besides the AC characters apparent size may actually be a result of a skewed angle in the photos.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 31, 2007, 01:33:48 AM
Post by: Ceric on July 31, 2007, 02:11:40 AM
QuoteI pay to see that. Now if I like to know how your going to get the long flight.
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I would SMASH YOU.
I'm going to get nit-picky because we all know this will be an awesome item. From the screenshots thoug I would have liked it if the pitfall didn't just put up a generic dirt graphic but actually deformed the stage or have different "dirts" for different materials like how the crates and barrels now change.
Post by: that Baby guy on July 31, 2007, 03:16:37 AM
Post by: Strell on July 31, 2007, 03:23:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
I would SMASH YOU.
I'm not scared of your boobs, Booblord!
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 31, 2007, 03:33:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: thatguy
Anyone else think that DK's model had more fur in those Pitfall pics? I think they altered it a little.
Remember, these pics aren't from the final, completed game...I'm sure the visuals will get even slightly better still by the time of release...
Post by: Sarail on July 31, 2007, 03:57:48 AM
Heh, I like trying to guess these things now. :P
Post by: Ceric on July 31, 2007, 04:41:35 AM
Post by: Louieturkey on July 31, 2007, 04:59:29 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 31, 2007, 05:44:37 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 31, 2007, 06:20:06 AM
Perhaps it will be music that hints on a new character reveal.
If it is a stage, I predict it will be a stage that doesn't hint at any new characters. Perhaps the Mario Kart stage? Or I could see a cool Luigi's Mansion stage.
If it is Special moves perhaps MetaKnight since we haven't seen him in awhile. Or perhaps Bowser?
As for the Pitfall, I think this item is awesome. It is another in a list of strategy items, and not just weapon items. These are important, because they add spice and depth to gameplay without being a cheesy gun or melee weapon.
Also this will be a brilliant power to use against several different attacks.
Hammer or invincible star. Even someone about to start a Final Smash could be hurt by this item. It is quite fantastic.
Post by: Ceric on July 31, 2007, 06:29:19 AM
QuoteYou counting Assist trophies in that?
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
I'll go out on a limb and say we get a new character tonight.
Post by: Sarail on July 31, 2007, 08:11:38 PM
Sakurai's not going to be late again is he? Sheesh.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 08:30:10 PM
Post by: Sarail on July 31, 2007, 08:35:10 PM
At least let Sakurai and his team finish making the game first... then you can kill him. >_<
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 08:43:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
No, anubis, no!
At least let Sakurai and his team finish making the game first... then you can kill him. >_<
Let him finish it then he can kill himself if the game doesn't have a proper online mode...
a sword to the stomach will be much less painful than what an angry mob of smashers are going to do to him
Post by: Mashiro on July 31, 2007, 08:45:54 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 08:49:02 PM
“i'll suck yo naughty word for an update man, come on i'll do it for an item”
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 08:49:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCureQuote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
No, anubis, no!
At least let Sakurai and his team finish making the game first... then you can kill him. >_<
Let him finish it then he can kill himself if the game doesn't have a proper online mode...
a sword to the stomach will be much less painful than what an angry mob of smashers are going to do to him
I call dibs on being Sakurai's Second.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 31, 2007, 08:49:19 PM
It's going to be a crap update.
Post by: Arbok on July 31, 2007, 09:11:43 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 09:24:34 PM
its going to be made of phail
Post by: NWR_pap64 on July 31, 2007, 09:25:02 PM
Must be extra crappy today!
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 09:32:44 PM
paper fan ftl
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 09:33:54 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 09:36:45 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 09:51:07 PM
Post by: EasyCure on July 31, 2007, 09:55:04 PM
goodnight!
Post by: Smoke39 on July 31, 2007, 10:49:09 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 31, 2007, 10:49:42 PM
Oh sh!t this is the greatest update ever. I told you guys he would be in.
Post by: anubis6789 on July 31, 2007, 10:52:13 PM
Post by: tiamat1990 on July 31, 2007, 10:52:18 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 31, 2007, 11:15:06 PM
I think I just found the character I'm going to play as first.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 31, 2007, 11:17:59 PM
Post by: Nick DiMola on July 31, 2007, 11:48:08 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 01, 2007, 12:35:06 AM
My proof:
He brings his special move "Aether" with him as he crashes the Brawl party. Try for a single-stroke finishing blow with his mighty blade!
Sounds to me like Ike has the one hit kill move that Roy was known for in SSBM. Granted this "proof" is really shaky at best, because Aether may be Ike's FSA, but the way I read it the comment seems to show that Ike has replaced Roy. I am also assuming that he uses the Marth/Roy Move set, which is entirely unfounded except that all of them are FE characters.
Post by: Robageejammin on August 01, 2007, 12:46:03 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on August 01, 2007, 01:42:11 AM
Check out the awesome of Ike in action here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=V2_H9KZWZeA
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 01, 2007, 01:44:34 AM
Plus Sakurai said in one of his responses that they wouldn't include any Japan only characters, but then he added since the Fire Emblem characters (Marth and Roy) were so well received by the rest of the world there might be an exception. This leads me to believe that he might keep Marth in the game as well.
Of course poor Roy's as good as gone. The best he can hope for is to appear as an Assist Trophy, which I could see Sakurai actually doing.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 01, 2007, 01:55:54 AM
I am going to agree that Ike seems to be the Fire Emblem replacement character. Marth and Roy were two characters that were clones of each other, but really didn't play too drastically differently. Ike seems to be a character that may blend together the characteristics of Marth and Roy. That would be awesome.
If another Fire Emblem character is included in Brawl I would rather it not be Marth or Roy, but us the franchise to bring another Female character into the game. And perhaps to show other elements of the Fire Emblem game. I still would love a light weight character that can use healing spells on herself or allies. It just seems like something that could fit in the Smash universe well...and it would have to be a light weight character to balance out.
Post by: Sarail on August 01, 2007, 02:22:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Wow. What an Update. Truthfully, there is very little little information with this update, but the simple that it is a completely new character is awesome.
I am going to agree that Ike seems to be the Fire Emblem replacement character. Marth and Roy were two characters that were clones of each other, but really didn't play too drastically differently. Ike seems to be a character that may blend together the characteristics of Marth and Roy. That would be awesome.
If another Fire Emblem character is included in Brawl I would rather it not be Marth or Roy, but us the franchise to bring another Female character into the game. And perhaps to show other elements of the Fire Emblem game. I still would love a light weight character that can use healing spells on herself or allies. It just seems like something that could fit in the Smash universe well...and it would have to be a light weight character to balance out.
Sothe (thief) from FE9, Eirika (myrmidon) from FE8, or even Lyndis (lord) from FE7 would all make good candidates for this "lightweight" FE character you're talking about. Plus, all three of these guys and gals are very popular, too. Including Eirika and Lyndis would be especially great because they're female fighters -- spice up the character roster a bit, ya know.
Post by: Ceric on August 01, 2007, 02:35:31 AM
. No one can outdo Captian Falcon. Seriously though, I wasn't expecting this. I can't say I'm to excited though I never got the hang of Marth/Roy.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 01, 2007, 02:55:45 AM
Post by: bosshogx on August 01, 2007, 03:16:13 AM
I'm going to have to agree with Rachtman about adding Lyndis as a second female FE character. For those of you who have no idea who she is:
Of course, she will HAVE to be referred to as Lady Lyndis to ensure she gets the respect she deserves. She is also a sword user, so she could be a semi-clone of Ike, but you can also give her a bow as a separate special move. Oh man, her final smash would be awesome. Observe:
Lady Lyndis tearing it up
Now imagine that in glorious 3-D! Actually, it would look a lot Link's I guess, but they could soup it up a bit, maybe have a few other FE characters (Eliwood or Hector) jump in and help her beat the hell out of them. Word!
Post by: Strell on August 01, 2007, 03:25:25 AM
BUT STILL NO CONFIRMATION OF ONLINE!
*edges closer to winning the bet*
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2007, 03:26:48 AM
And yes, LYN PLEASE! =D
Post by: Ceric on August 01, 2007, 03:38:38 AM
Post by: bosshogx on August 01, 2007, 04:09:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I have mixed feelings about other characters jumping in for a Final Smash.
Ceric, did you ever play Capcom vs SNK 2? There was a playable character named Kyosuke who could call out his two teammates from Rival Schools for a level 3 super. It was pretty tight and over quickly, ie. not very distracting at all. This is what I'm talking about:
Fast forward to 2:18
Just replace the other two characters with Eliwood, Hector, Guy, Rebecca, Raven, Sain, or Kent. Ah to heck with it, just have her step to the side and have Merlinus run over the enemy with his cart.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 01, 2007, 04:24:21 AM
Now if only the 2nd character would be one of the massive tank-types, I'd be happy. Though, I'd vote Lyndis because this game could still use more female characters.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 01, 2007, 04:25:41 AM
If it wasn't for the fact that late updates have happened before I would say that when an update is late it means it must be special.
Post by: Terranigma Freak on August 01, 2007, 04:47:28 AM
Now then...
Old Ike is better!
Adult Mia is also better than Lyn.
Also, Ayra is still way more popular than Lyn ever was.
As for the most popular Lord, that title goes to Sigurd. According to Sakurai, Sigurd was suppose to be in SSBM but was replaced by Roy at the last minute to promote FE6 instead. Ike is the second most popular according to fans in Japan.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2007, 04:58:00 AM
Post by: Terranigma Freak on August 01, 2007, 05:29:21 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 01, 2007, 05:40:10 AM
Post by: EasyCure on August 01, 2007, 06:40:36 AM
i'm glad i went to sleep last night, to stay us any longer than 5am only to get this would of been just as bad as staying up for santa claus and having him bring you a big bag of molestation
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 06:56:36 AM
I like this character, if anything, because it reminds me of Marth.
So long as Nintendo keeps the taunt Japanese I'll give this chara a try hehe.
Edit: also a female sword wielding chara from FE would be awesome.
Post by: Darkheart on August 01, 2007, 08:27:21 AM
Post by: Stogi on August 01, 2007, 10:06:51 AM
I first mastered Roy before anyone else (he was the only character I hadn't seen before other than Marth, but Marth's a pussy) so it kinda sucks that he might be gone this round. However, Ike looks like a better replacement overall. So I guess it evened out.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2007, 10:25:50 AM
(also a Roy user...)
Post by: Kenology on August 01, 2007, 10:46:44 AM
Also, fabulous update! IKE FTW, as well!
But, assuming an FE character doesn't have to be a Lord to be in Smash, I say bring in:
Post by: Athrun Zala on August 01, 2007, 12:15:14 PM
Quotelol wut?
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I am going to agree that Ike seems to be the Fire Emblem replacement character. Marth and Roy were two characters that were clones of each other, but really didn't play too drastically differently.
Seriously, Roy and Marth, despite the similar moveset, played completely diferent...
Quotehope so, Roy was way too awesome in SSBM...
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
He'll most likely end up with Roy's exact move set anyway, so no huge loss... =)
(also a Roy user...)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 01, 2007, 02:44:18 PM
Smash has been a game that has been light on female fighters, and there isn't too many popular characters Nintendo can pull from to really even this out. So Fire Emblem is a great opportunity for Nintendo to do so.
As it stands the only Female characters I believe we can/could get for Brawl are:
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda
Samus
Birdo???
Crystal (from Star Fox)
Fire Emblem character
Jill from Drill Dozer
Perhaps Daisy
Although there are many supporting Nintendo female characters, there are not many main characters...so it is hard to list options...I know I have forgotten so obvious options, but then again doesn't that show just how hard it is to find female Nintendo characters for Brawl?
Post by: Smoke39 on August 01, 2007, 03:13:32 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 03:29:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Although there are many supporting Nintendo female characters, there are not many main characters...so it is hard to list options...I know I have forgotten so obvious options, but then again doesn't that show just how hard it is to find female Nintendo characters for Brawl?
Tsk, tsk for looking over the Wars series. Sami and Lash, with a creative mind behind them, could have a lot of potential... although I would love to see Sturm, above all others in the series, in Smash.
Also, for another female character, I would make a huge movement of support toward Midna:
Dixie Kong would be another possibility. I would personally like to see it done where she is joined up with Diddy Kong, doing something similar to the Ice Climbers... but different due to each having a differing play style.
Anyway, in terms of the most likely, I think that award would go to Krystal from the Star Fox series, IMO.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 03:31:46 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 01, 2007, 04:14:05 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 04:23:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Why does everyone think that Ike being in means Marth and Roy are out? I'd say Ike replaces Roy, as they seem similar (medium speed, strong characters), and Marth stays in, due to popularity.
That would be my guess as well. I think many people are hesitant, though, due to the fact that both Marth and Ike have blue hair...
Post by: tiamat1990 on August 01, 2007, 05:24:18 PM
Post by: mantidor on August 01, 2007, 06:41:44 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on August 01, 2007, 07:42:38 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 01, 2007, 07:57:59 PM
I still hold out hope that Zelda transforms into uncursed Midna instead of Sheik while retaining all of the latter's moves and style. I think it could work.
As far as Ike is concerned, after sleeping on his announcement and doing some research on him (I have not played Radience), I have a feeling that he may not use the Marth/Roy move set. Aether may also be his FSA, and it may be completely separate from the mentioned one-hit kill move; the wording can be taken either way really.
I have also reevaluated my belief that he will replace Roy, I still believe that Roy's chances of staying in SSBB sunk pretty low after Ike's announcement, but I still fill he has an so-so chance of staying in (around 30 - 35%). Marth will in all probability stay in, but part of me thinks that if Ike does have the Marth/Roy move set, and given Sakurai's comments on trying to shy away from Japanese only characters (although this statement does not say he will not put in any new Japanese characters, it merely stated he would like to avoid it, not exactly a strong statement against the inclusion of a Japanese only character), Marth may find his own chances of returning getting worse.
Of course this is all just conjecture.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 08:49:19 PM
Awesome stage! I can't believe the stage collapses to the interior and then BELOW that. Good stuff!
Can't wait to see what's below the interior.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 08:53:29 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 01, 2007, 08:55:28 PM
The stage reminds me a bit of Ultimate Mortal Kombat in that you can travel to different places within the same stage through the floor. And this is the second they are teasing us about a hidden part of the stage (the first being about Rumble falls' top).
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 08:56:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I'm SOOOO glad they are doing more stage design like Power Stone 2 where it is constantly changing on you, makes for a great time!
Soo true so true.
I think this will be the stage I play on the most
looks so fun!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 08:56:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I kinda expected that in honor of Ike being revealed they would do a FE based update.
The stage reminds me a bit of Ultimate Mortal Kombat in that you can travel to different places within the same stage through the floor. And this is the second they are teasing us about a hidden part of the stage (the first being about Rumble falls' top).
Comparing it to a stage in Ultimate Mortal Kombat is INSULTING! You are supposed to compare it to Power Stone 2.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 01, 2007, 09:01:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I kinda expected that in honor of Ike being revealed they would do a FE based update.
The stage reminds me a bit of Ultimate Mortal Kombat in that you can travel to different places within the same stage through the floor. And this is the second they are teasing us about a hidden part of the stage (the first being about Rumble falls' top).
Comparing it to a stage in Ultimate Mortal Kombat is INSULTING! You are supposed to compare it to Power Stone 2.
I'm sorry, but that's the first thing I thought of when I read about the stage.
And am I the only that is a tad worried about some of the Brawl the stages being a lot like the Power Stone 2 stages?
PS 2 was a fun game and all but I hated the fact that about 20% of it was fighting and the other 80% was about escaping the stage. It was a neat concept but made things way too chaotic and messy for me to enjoy. Luckily Brawl will have its share of nice, simple stages.
Oh and there should DEFINITELY be a Mario Strikers element in Brawl now that I think about it...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:04:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
I kinda expected that in honor of Ike being revealed they would do a FE based update.
The stage reminds me a bit of Ultimate Mortal Kombat in that you can travel to different places within the same stage through the floor. And this is the second they are teasing us about a hidden part of the stage (the first being about Rumble falls' top).
Comparing it to a stage in Ultimate Mortal Kombat is INSULTING! You are supposed to compare it to Power Stone 2.
I'm sorry, but that's the first thing I thought of when I read about the stage.
And am I the only that is a tad worried about some of the Brawl the stages being a lot like the Power Stone 2 stages?
PS 2 was a fun game and all but I hated the fact that about 20% of it was fighting and the other 80% was about escaping the stage. It was a neat concept but made things way too chaotic and messy for me to enjoy. Luckily Brawl will have its share of nice, simple stages.
Oh and there should DEFINITELY be a Mario Strikers element in Brawl now that I think about it...
Yep you are the only one that thinks that because Power Stone 2 is one of the greatest games ever! My guess is that there will be variety of stages, changing stages and stationary stages.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 09:08:06 PM
I think the whole collapsing stage isn't going to be as hectic as a Power Stone 2 stage for the simple reason that (from what I can gather) the Stage just collapses. In Power Stone 2 when stages would change things would occur that would damage you, make you lose your power crystals, etc. Plus Brawl is a "flat" design where as the power stone series is more Top down view 3D style fighting which makes it even harder to keep up with stage changes.
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 09:12:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I think this will be the stage I play on the most
I concur. The level of detail that went into both sections of the stage is quite amazing:
Hope the "underground" is as interesting as the former two levels.
You know a level is amazing too if it gets GoldenPhoenix interested in the "overrated" Smash Bros series.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:18:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I think this will be the stage I play on the most
I concur. The level of detail that went into both sections of the stage is quite amazing:
Hope the "underground" is as interesting as the former two levels.
You know a level is amazing too if it gets GoldenPhoenix interested in the "overrated" Smash Bros series.
Overrated but fun. Personally I found the series as a whole to rely a lot more on luck then skill. Yeah it has depth but not enough IMO, at least in Power STone 2 there was alot of stuff going on it kept me on my toes and provided a 2nd layer to the fighting genre (Not to mention I found it relied on a bit more skill than luck at least compared to Smash Brothers). At least Brawl is shaping up to be a highly varied game that will have something for everyone (Like this awesome looking stage). I also found Melee to be a bit more unbalanced than the first (though on the flip side I found Melee to be more fun).
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 09:23:33 PM
Quote
Overrated but fun. Personally I found the series as a whole to rely a lot more on luck then skill. Yeah it has depth but not enough IMO, at least in Power STone 2 there was alot of stuff going on it kept me on my toes and provided a 2nd layer to the fighting genre (Not to mention I found it relied on a bit more skill than luck at least compared to Smash Brothers). At least Brawl is shaping up to be a highly varied game that will have something for everyone (Like this awesome looking stage).
GP I am so sorry but I have to call complete and utter BS on that statement.
Complete BS. ::raises BS flag:: is there an emote for this?
Power Stone 2 is one of the MOST random fighters EVER. The main reason why PS1 was BETTER than 2 was because you could actually have decent skill fights in 1. In 2, the game was designed around 4 player combat with hectic stages that would collapse, do damage to you, etc.
Sorry but Melee has more depth than power stone 2 ever had.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:25:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Overrated but fun. Personally I found the series as a whole to rely a lot more on luck then skill. Yeah it has depth but not enough IMO, at least in Power STone 2 there was alot of stuff going on it kept me on my toes and provided a 2nd layer to the fighting genre (Not to mention I found it relied on a bit more skill than luck at least compared to Smash Brothers). At least Brawl is shaping up to be a highly varied game that will have something for everyone (Like this awesome looking stage).
GP I am so sorry but I have to call complete and utter BS on that statement.
Complete BS. ::raises BS flag:: is there an emote for this?
Power Stone 2 is one of the MOST random fighters EVER. The main reason why PS1 was BETTER than 2 was because you could actually have decent skill fights in 1. In 2, the game was designed around 4 player combat with hectic stages that would collapse, do damage to you, etc.
Sorry but Melee has more depth than power stone 2 ever had.
Power Stone 2 was random and it kept you on your toes, it gave more opportunity for skill to show through during the battles since a skilled person can use the stages to their advantage along with fighting skills. So take that and smoke it
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 09:27:38 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:33:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that Nintendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless. It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 09:37:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.
Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?
Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.
Post by: Adrock on August 01, 2007, 09:44:17 PM
I wonder if you can attack while falling to lower levels.
I think Ike will be an original character. Marth, because he's Marth, will probably be back. Roy may be back because people liked him in Melee. The only reason I'd doubt it is because his only purpose in Melee was to promote The Sword of Seals. If he came back as a costume, that would be a fair trade in my opinion.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:49:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.
Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?
Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.
Why don't you tell me exactly why it is such a great a game? For the most part the stage designs are so simple even I could design them (which is pretty sad actually), and the movesets are severely limited. Yeah it has items, but so did PowerStone which I believe came out BEFORE Smash Brothers, which could actually make Smash Brothers more of a clone of Power Stone! Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them. Not to mention it still remains one of the most unique and daring fighting games released. It took strategy to a whole new level when you used stuff around you in order to succeed in a battle, whether that was using the deadly obstacles, hiding behind various items, utilizing vehicles, in addition to utilizing each fighters unique special skills.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:50:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Adrock
I also thought of Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3.... I never played the Power Stone series. You know why? Because I keep getting outbid on ebay.....
I wonder if you can attack while falling to lower levels.
I think Ike will be an original character. Marth, because he's Marth, will probably be back. Roy may be back because people liked him in Melee. The only reason I'd doubt it is because his only purpose in Melee was to promote The Sword of Seals. If he came back as a costume, that would be a fair trade in my opinion.
I believe you could attack in Power Stone 2 when falling to new levels, I do hope they include that in Smash Brothers, could make for some crazy fun fights.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 09:54:57 PM
Quote
It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Wow I can't believe how much you dig into the Smash series . . . anyway.
Also, Power Stone is not a deep fighter . . . the combos are just as easy to master as anything in Smash.
Power Stone 2 IS NOT a deep fighter. Sorry but it's not. Smash has random elements to it but so did Power Stone 1. The difference between Power Stone 1 and 2 is that Power Stone 1 focused on 1v1 battles in stages that gave elements to you which you could use to your advantage. At times depending on the character (super strong and see a poll? you can lift it and smash your opponent, for example). It really allowed the hectic nature of the random weapons and stage elements to work well in a fighter.
Power Stone 2 completely went overboard on stages that were just crazy. Yeah it was fun for a 4v4 complete crazy brawl but there was no real finesse to it. The stages were too out there to have any form of consistency and while Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 09:57:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Because you edited I'll reply to your edit:Quote
It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Wow I can't believe how much you dig into the Smash series . . . anyway.
Also, Power Stone is not a deep fighter . . . the combos are just as easy to master as anything in Smash.
Power Stone 2 IS NOT a deep fighter. Sorry but it's not. Smash has random elements to it but so did Power Stone 1. The difference between Power Stone 1 and 2 is that Power Stone 1 focused on 1v1 battles in stages that gave elements to you which you could use to your advantage. At times depending on the character (super strong and see a poll? you can lift it and smash your opponent, for example). It really allowed the hectic nature of the random weapons and stage elements to work well in a fighter.
Power Stone 2 completely went overboard on stages that were just crazy. Yeah it was fun for a 4v4 complete crazy brawl but there was no real finesse to it. The stages were too out there to have any form of consistency and while Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy.
Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power. Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:03:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol no I won't I'm sorry I like you GP but I think you're smokin' something to think that about the game.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that NIntendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.
Because games like Soul Calibur don't have tiers for characters right?
Seriously, Melee might not be the most in-depth fighting in the world but it is far better than the Powerstone series.
Why don't you tell me exactly why it is such a great a game? For the most part the stage designs are so simple even I could design them (which is pretty sad actually), and the movesets are severely limited. Yeah it has items, but so did PowerStone which I believe came out BEFORE Smash Brothers, which could actually make Smash Brothers more of a clone of Power Stone! Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them.
GP you are completely contradicting. The move sets in Melee are limited? What is powerstones move sets? Come on GP Power Stone has just as little move sets per character (probably less).
Also why are you arguing Smash being a "clone" of Power Stone? What does that have to do with anything?
So without further a due here is why smash melee is a great game:
1) It is a great party game. It is simple enough for anyone to pick up and have a good time with.
2) It is a great competitive game. You can have epic competitive battles in a 1v1 environment or go for the more traditional 4v4 battles.
3) There are tons of modes which allow you to choose different ways in which you like to play.
4) There are a variety of stages that provide a fun battle ground to play on.
5) Great musical score to accompany the fighting.
6) Great visuals, for being one of the first games to come out on Cube it is still a good looking game.
7) Multiple characters with different and unique move sets that appeal to just about everyones tastes.
Just to name a few reasons.
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 10:05:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has.
The tiers are constantly updated. People find new strategies, the meta game that is the tournament scene evolves. Samus was recently deemed into a higher tier, so was Marth, Jigglypuff and the Ice Climbers. This will all change though as strategies evolve to counter what's most overused, and the cycle will continue.
Let's also not ignore the fact that Melee has the same number of characters, currently, in the higher tiers than the entire roster for PS2.
Also, again, this is for the 1-on-1 item-less metagame, and going outside of that shifts the tiers completely.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless.
Point taken, although oddly enough Bowser is no longer in the lowest tier as strategies have changed. Kirby, Pichu and Mewtwo are currently placed there (all four of which need help, though).
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there...
Some don't like that, some like that about it. I personally like both aspects. I like playing the larger levels, with all items turned on with the highest frequency, and sometimes I like one-on-one matches on Final Destination... the options let me play both ways, and many in between, which gives it endless replay value for me.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games...
My GOD! You don't say! Well my view is totally changed about it now... forget everything I said about it prior.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is).
Unlike the huge tournaments established for Power Stone 2, which have dis... oh wait...
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Where is Smash_Brothers. Basically, it's not Street Fighter. Isn't trying to be. I didn't realize a game having easy to wield controls makes it for "two year olds" either.
Man, you really went off the cuff about this GoldenPhoenix...
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:06:48 PM
Quote
Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power. Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.
You're not reading what I'm saying and getting way too defensive over your Power Stone 2 lol.
I said "Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy." Power Stone 2 is crazy all the time.
Also, any skilled player can avoid an item in Smash that may "shift" the battle for you. Even the Super Hammer. You can avoid it or can actually hit the player wielding it.
There is no blue turtle shell in Smash =P
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:11:10 PM
Oh yeah Mashiro you obviously don't know much about PS2 because the stages get VERY consistent in the end where strategy is key to winning.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:14:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Where is Smash_Brothers. Basically, it's not Street Fighter. Isn't trying to be. I didn't realize a game having easy to wield controls makes it for "two year olds" either.
Yeah it is a clone of Power Stone 2 I already answered that.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:14:38 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:14:39 PM
ZING!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:15:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Magic Wands=consistency. Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power. Not to say that is a bad thing (Heck I love Mario Kart) but to not admit that is silly. Smash Brothers got just as if not more crazy than PS2 especially in the smaller stages which turn into dumb but fun brawl fests between four people. At least PS2 provided places to give you cover so you were never really trapped to an all out brawl, in fact those who took their time in that game and plotted out their attack would more than likely win if they used their surroundings.
You're not reading what I'm saying and getting way too defensive over your Power Stone 2 lol.
I said "Smash may have random elements it still has some elements that remain more constant and not crazy." Power Stone 2 is crazy all the time.
Also, any skilled player can avoid an item in Smash that may "shift" the battle for you. Even the Super Hammer. You can avoid it or can actually hit the player wielding it.
There is no blue turtle shell in Smash =P
In smaller stages items can really shift the balance in Smash Bros, you have to agree with that (I really hate the small stages too, I preferred the larger ones like Hyrule Castle). Guess what in PS2 you can avoid items as well if you have the skills.
Post by: Adrock on August 01, 2007, 10:17:30 PM
Ok, resume Power Stone talk.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:18:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.
WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:18:28 PM
Smaller stages make some items more effective but it doesn't change much if you know your character well.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:20:28 PM
Quote
Text1) It is a great party game. It is simple enough for anyone to pick up and have a good time with.
2) It is a great competitive game. You can have epic competitive battles in a 1v1 environment or go for the more traditional 4v4 battles.
3) There are tons of modes which allow you to choose different ways in which you like to play.
4) There are a variety of stages that provide a fun battle ground to play on.
5) Great musical score to accompany the fighting.
6) Great visuals, for being one of the first games to come out on Cube it is still a good looking game.
7) Multiple characters with different and unique move sets that appeal to just about everyones tastes.
It is kind of funny besides 3 Power Stone 2 has (or had in the case of the visuals) all of those, except for variety of stages you get a ton of variety in a stage. Power Stone 2 had a great cast as well which was fun to play as, while I felt Smash Brothers was trying too hard to include tons of characters, to the point where some suffered or were flat out clones.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:20:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.
WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.
Smash does require more skill. Again you can't strip down the game (or Meta game as arbok put it) in PS2 and get the same experience you get in Melee. You just don't.
You've been making those comparisons in my said quote with saying how "easy" Melee is (a 2 year old can learn all the combos) yet Power Stone is just as easy.
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 10:20:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Power Stone 2 never had the following Smash Brothers had even if it is mainly Nintendo fans.
What does it matter where the fans come from?
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Also Arbok thanks for taking my quote out of context, I was referring to the learning of combos and moves in Smash Brothers, not the whole game.
That's part of the controls, which is what I quoted and responded to.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not sure what you mean off the cuff...
It was in reference to the point when your conversation became less about comparing the merits of the two games, and more in trying to simply dismiss Smash Bros as a "fanboi's wet dream".
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:21:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I never complained about the items in Power Stone 2 did I? The stages and overall balance towards it being a 4v4 fighter is what makes it more of a "hectic" fighter. You can't strip down Power Stone 2 and get the depth out of it if you did the same with Melee.
Smaller stages make some items more effective but it doesn't change much if you know your character well.
Unless you have Jigglypuff vs Fox and fox gets an item!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:25:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Power Stone 2 never had the following Smash Brothers had even if it is mainly Nintendo fans.
What does it matter where the fans come from?Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Also Arbok thanks for taking my quote out of context, I was referring to the learning of combos and moves in Smash Brothers, not the whole game.
That's part of the controls, which is what I quoted and responded to.Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Not sure what you mean off the cuff...
It was in reference to the point when your conversation became less about comparing the merits of the two games, and more in trying to simply dismiss Smash Bros as a "fanboi's wet dream".
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more. In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.
To sum up my feelings of Melee I would give the game a 8.5/10. Power Stone 2 a 9.5 out of 10.
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 10:27:09 PM
It takes all sorts...
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:30:20 PM
Quote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
Edit: it doesn't matter that Nintendo had a number of solid characters in the games, many with a unique move pool and plus and minus traits. it doesn't matter that they gave us a number of stages to fight on, from normal stages to race tracks to a rotating rock that is smashed by a giant beast.
Yeah Melee was so basic and lame all it did was rely on fans wet dreams.
No substance what so ever.
/sarcasim
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:31:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
GP . . . you're defending PowerStone 2 as if it was tekken or soul calibur and it's really funny lol.
WHere did I do that? I said Power Stone 2 is a unique fighter hybrid, and IMO one of the most unique to ever grace consoles. All I've been stating is that you are exagerrating Smash Bros. strengths, and not giving PS2 a fair shake in comparison. You are the one that said that PS2 required hardly any skill and indicated Smash Brothers does.
Smash does require more skill. Again you can't strip down the game (or Meta game as arbok put it) in PS2 and get the same experience you get in Melee. You just don't.
You've been making those comparisons in my said quote with saying how "easy" Melee is (a 2 year old can learn all the combos) yet Power Stone is just as easy.
I don't believe I denied how accessible and limited the move set was in Power Stone 2 did I? Also that comparison with stripping the game is quite ridiculous actually, you could say that about any game out there, Power Stone 2 was focused on one aspect of the game (1 on 1 could be quite strategic as well, heck I played most of my games that way!), while Smash Brothers Melee was seemingly designed as game that was to please everyone, which I have always been a little leery about. Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way). Power Stone 2 was a fighter/3D plat former with destructible environments while Smash followed more PS1 which was leaned more to fighter. What I am trying to say is that Power Stone 2 had a different focus and it is completely unfair to harpoon the potential strategy which was designed around its unique take on the fighting genre. Power Stone 2 has just as much strategy as Smash Brothers, it just goes about it differently.
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 10:32:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more.
Melee would have been incredibly fun, even if all of the characters looked like the polygon team with different hats. The game dynamic is what makes it so great. Crossovers aren't new, but when a great one like Smash Bros or the Capcom Versus series comes along, it clicks. Of course, all of these franchises have things to gain from the source material, but that won't propel them to be as widely accepted as either is without fantastic gameplay to back it up.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.
That never stopped Street Fighter III, which is hugely popular at tournaments.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:32:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:34:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.
Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.
Good work Capcom!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:34:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
...yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more.
Melee would have been incredibly fun, even if all of the characters looked like the polygon team with different hats. The game dynamic is what makes it so great. Crossovers aren't new, but when a great one like Smash Bros or the Capcom Versus series comes along, it clicks. Of course, all of these franchises have things to gain from the source material, but that won't propel them to be as widely accepted as either is without fantastic gameplay to back it up.Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
In regards to the fans, it matters because a game that does not sell well and is pretty much overlooked (as the Dreamcast as a whole was) will not be featured at tournaments.
That never stopped Street Fighter III, which is hugely popular at tournaments.
Um that is a bad example as well, the Street Fighter series has had an established name for YEARS. Power Stone never had a prayer to get to that point.
Post by: Arbok on August 01, 2007, 10:34:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).
Oh COME ON!
That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:35:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.
Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.
Good work Capcom!
Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:35:58 PM
Quote
I don't believe I denied how accessible and limited the move set was in Power Stone 2 did I?
You're faulting a series like Melee for being easy but you're series is just as easy if not easier.
You're contradicting yourself.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 10:37:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.
Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.
Good work Capcom!
Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.
And on the flip side we have GP who says Melee is nothing more than a fan boys over hyped wet dream where as many in the industry regard it as one of the best games created.
See what I did there?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:37:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).
Oh COME ON!
That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.
It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets. It shows that development was not focused (personally I think Melee was rushed) and in order to accomidate they allow the user to eliminate gameplay related items, which works for some stages (smaller) and doesn't work for larger ones unless you like boring fights.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:39:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
That is taking what I said completely out of context, yeah I think Smash Brothers relies way too much on being a fanboi's wetdream especially Melee which did way too much IMO instead of focusing more
Yeah power stone 2 defenitely focused on bettering the power stone universe with 4 new characters and 8 stages (well 11 if you count the "bonus" stages).
At least Power Stone 2 tried to reimagine and innovate the series. Like I said I'd rather have 8 brilliantly designed stages then 30 poor to good stages.
Yeah and in doing so they raped what made the series good.
Good work Capcom!
Now that is really debatable, especially since Power Stone 2 was much better received by most except for someone named Mashiro and his group of friends.
And on the flip side we have GP who says Melee is nothing more than a fan boys over hyped wet dream where as many in the industry regard it as one of the best games created.
See what I did there?
Yeah you proved my point about Nintendo fans because they are about the only ones that say it is one of the best games ever created. Most agree with me because I say it is a great game but not one of the best at an 8.5/10.
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 10:42:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).
Oh COME ON!
That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.
It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets.
We're approaching Ian levels of insanity here, seriously people!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:45:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Anytime a game allows you to turn stuff off, especially a fighter, shows me the developer didn't have faith in his original game design and instead threw in safeguards to make everyone happy (Or at least try too, it doesn't always turn out that way).
Oh COME ON!
That's it, I'm calling it a night before this gets any worse.
It is a bandage, you can think whatever you want but the ability to turn stuff off is a bandage around designing a game that can grab hold of everyone. It would be like Super Mario 64 allowing you to turn off goombas or Soul Calibur allowing you to turn off movesets.
We're approaching Ian levels of insanity here, seriously people!
Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 01, 2007, 10:45:28 PM
Oh! They've added soldiers to the throne room, I see...Nice touch...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:47:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Yaaaay, I was thinking from since both "Fire Emblem stages" were revealed that they could possibly be from the same stage (since I couldn't see them adding a second fairly simple Fire Emblem stage), so I'm glad that's the case...I'm personally hoping for an underground waterfall/river thing...
Oh! They've added soldiers to the throne room, I see...Nice touch...
You know that would be really cool, I love waterfalls! Maybe have it interact with the environment.
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 10:53:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.
You made a blanket condemnation. Only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 10:55:58 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 10:56:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Haven't we seen this stage before? Those statues look familiar... from a very early screenshot perhaps?
It sounds like we only seen part of the stage in earlier screenshots.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 11:00:13 PM
Quote
Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.
Disprove what?
You said: "Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in"
Well when I see a 2 year old master Melee or Brawl I'll letcha know.
Also PS2 isn't a hard fighter ether which you said. So you're faulting Melee for not being hard but not faulting PS2. Double standards.
You said: "not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has."
Lots of games have "tiers" in them that are in tournaments: Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, etc etc.
You said: the movesets are severely limited.
I say, so are power stones. Again double standards. Melee sucks for this reason but Power Stone doesn't.
You said: Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power.
Anyone who plays the game will disagree with you on that. Any skilled player can beat a noob regardless of items.
In any case I just disproved your double standards. Anywho moving along . . .
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 11:02:34 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:04:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Yeah like people replying with something pointless and not trying to disprove it.
Disprove what?
You said: "Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in"
Well when I see a 2 year old master Melee or Brawl I'll letcha know.
Also PS2 isn't a hard fighter ether which you said. So you're faulting Melee for not being hard but not faulting PS2. Double standards.
You said: "not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has."
Lots of games have "tiers" in them that are in tournaments: Soul Calibur, Guilty Gear, etc etc.
You said: the movesets are severely limited.
I say, so are power stones. Again double standards. Melee sucks for this reason but Power Stone doesn't.
You said: Seriously Smash Brothers had the consistency of a Mario Kart game where a crappy player could luck out and get a special item that would completely shift the balance of power.
Anyone who plays the game will disagree with you on that. Any skilled player can beat a noob regardless of items.
In any case I just disproved your double standards. Anywho moving along . . .
I hate to be rude but read what I said. What does this quote sound like?
Quote
Yeah I'll admit PS2 is not a complex fighter but the hectic and well designed stages made for a unque experience every time you went into it, and provided countless hours of fun which is saying alot because there were so few of them.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 11:05:52 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:08:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
But . . . that doesn't change the fact that you said Melee was easy and that a 2 year old could master it. Hence that being a negative.
When did I say a 2 year old could master it? I said a two year old could learn the special moves and combos, didn't say he'd be able to master any of it. Heck if you want I'll say a 2 year old could learn the moves and combos in PS2 too, but they couldn't master that either. Hey I'll go a step further and I'll say the great aspects about BOTH PS2 and Smash Brothers Brawl is that they are easy for anyone to get into and have fun with.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 11:12:05 PM
All I'm saying is original you made the simplistic nature of the game (easy to learn hard to master) a negative and indicated it was so easy a 2 year old could "learn" all the combos.
Edit: and your edit makes even more sense. See that's great.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:14:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
You're backtracking and thinking about what you're saying now see that's good
All I'm saying is original you made the simplistic nature of the game (easy to learn hard to master) a negative and indicated it was so easy a 2 year old could "learn" all the combos.
In context I was using that to show that Smash Brothers wasn't a complex/strateguic fighter like I THOUGHT you were indicating. I was doing that to bring it down to earth, now if I would have said Power Stone 2 had none of that I would be contradicting myself, but the key is that I didn't even mention Power Stone's fighting mechanics.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 11:15:16 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:16:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
You're backtracking and thinking about what you're saying now see that's good
All I'm saying is original you made the simplistic nature of the game (easy to learn hard to master) a negative and indicated it was so easy a 2 year old could "learn" all the combos.
Edit: and your edit makes even more sense. See that's great.
I'll admit the combo thing was dumb, that isn't what I was thinking lol. I was thinking more in lines of your special moves and movesets, not "combos" which can be construed as utilizing and combining EVERYTHING including the enviroment around you which is what a skilled player would do.
Post by: Mashiro on August 01, 2007, 11:17:03 PM
"good fight, good night"
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:17:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
But smash can be a complex and strategic fighter . . .
I guess that depends on your definition of complex, I was thinking along the lines of strategy utilized in a Virtual Fighter or Tekken game.
Post by: Kairon on August 01, 2007, 11:20:21 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 01, 2007, 11:47:03 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 01, 2007, 11:56:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Wow... and I thought the argument about tournament rules I was apart of was heated.
I wish I could argue with you, but I don't care about tournament rules.
Post by: Nick DiMola on August 02, 2007, 12:25:58 AM
Fire Emblem level looking good. Glad they finally decided to show off what we have been seeing since the very first video.
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2007, 01:49:51 AM
I really don't like this level because its another platform set in front of a pretty back drop. It be like playing Mario Galaxy but instead of doing the whole little planet thing you just had platforms in front of each new planet to navigates. I'm frankly getting tired of this type of level design for the stages. Melee did a fair job avoiding this type of stage design. The platforms seemed like a viable part of the landscape. This is not that way. Its just some random platform that just seems to be in front of a sieged castle. Why am I not fighting on the actual castle? Maybe a siege Machine. Every time I see a stage I go wow thats beautiful and the concept is cool but, how is that any different the stage x and why are they all so small?
Post by: Shecky on August 02, 2007, 01:55:02 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 02, 2007, 02:30:24 AM
It seems that most of the Brawl stages are just different platform arrangements with pretty backgrounds. I was also a fan of the larger stages of SSB64 because they lent to more strategic combat in lieu of "you're cramped together in a small space, now fight" type of levels.
I'm sure there will be others, but I vastly prefer the stages were you're fighting on a piece of Nintendo history, not in front of it.
For this stage, wouldn't it be insanely awesome if you saw a siege tower pull up to the castle in the background, then a load of soldiers pile out, then another one pulls up to the actual platforms and a load of soldiers pile out and the players need to KO them?
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 02, 2007, 02:50:42 AM
It appears that the Brawl team has decided that Smaller more compact levels that the action does not get lost in our better than scrolled out fighting...at least so far. I will agree with that definitely...and it is going to make the battles fast and furious.
I do get the sense that too much is going on in all these levels. They are not just background changes, but level changes with drops and such that will slow the action down momentarly...not always a good thing.
I hope tomorrow bring some Fire Emblem music to really set this week up as a theme week.
Post by: LuigiHann on August 02, 2007, 06:09:52 AM
I don't too much mind that a lot of the stages seem to be set "in front of" landmarks instead of on them... One of my favorite levels in the series is still Peach's Castle from SSB64, and that was basically the same concept.
Post by: Mikintosh on August 02, 2007, 06:51:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I agree with Ceric. Hyrule Castle in SSB64 and Peach's Castle in SSBM both WERE the castle. This one is a part of the castle, but doesn't encompass to the same extent.
It seems that most of the Brawl stages are just different platform arrangements with pretty backgrounds. I was also a fan of the larger stages of SSB64 because they lent to more strategic combat in lieu of "you're cramped together in a small space, now fight" type of levels.
I'm sure there will be others, but I vastly prefer the stages were you're fighting on a piece of Nintendo history, not in front of it.
For this stage, wouldn't it be insanely awesome if you saw a siege tower pull up to the castle in the background, then a load of soldiers pile out, then another one pulls up to the actual platforms and a load of soldiers pile out and the players need to KO them?
I think stuff like that sounds good in theory (or in Adventure mode), but not as much in practice. When I want to play against people, I usually want to play against them, not against the elements of the stage. Some of the stages like that in Melee (Big Blue, Poke Floats) were fun, but my favorites were mostly flat with outside elements (Corneria). Though I'm confident that in the end they'll have a good balance, and I think the number of "platform" stages is being exaggerated because they're the only ones that've been revealed yet.
I'm also not incredibly keen on the pauses between changes on the stage, but as long as it's not a Dead or Alive-type movie that happens, I'll be alright with it.
Post by: Stogi on August 02, 2007, 08:16:12 AM
That was quite possibly the most worthless argument I've heard been witness to (and that's saying alot).
Post by: UERD on August 02, 2007, 08:36:21 AM
Regardless, their argument only illustrates my point that the 'OMG 1337 h4rdc0re' gamers will never take Nintendo seriously.
Post by: vudu on August 02, 2007, 08:37:13 AM
QuoteI'm quoting this for BILL because he didn't believe me when I told him people were actually suggesting this idea.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I still hold out hope that Zelda transforms into uncursed Midna instead of Sheik while retaining all of the latter's moves and style. I think it could work.
Post by: Sarail on August 02, 2007, 08:48:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteI'm quoting this for BILL because he didn't believe me when I told him people were actually suggesting this idea.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I still hold out hope that Zelda transforms into uncursed Midna instead of Sheik while retaining all of the latter's moves and style. I think it could work.
And that sounds incredibly awkward to see happen, too.
I still stand by my belief that Sakurai will make Sheik a stand-alone character with an altered moveset and slightly nerfed abilities. Anything to make those so-called "pros" wince a little.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:50:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
God, I just wasted 20 minutes of my life (thanks alot GP and Mashiro!).
That was quite possibly the most worthless argument I've heard been witness to (and that's saying alot).
Hey I didn't twist your arm to read any of it did I?
QQ =P
Edit: actually I do apologize for the extended argument and ruining 2 pages of forum.
/repent
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:12:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
God, I just wasted 20 minutes of my life (thanks alot GP and Mashiro!).
That was quite possibly the most worthless argument I've heard been witness to (and that's saying alot).
Hey I didn't twist your arm to read any of it did I?
QQ =P
Edit: actually I do apologize for the extended argument and ruining 2 pages of forum.
/repent
Don't repent, everyone else is just in denial.
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2007, 09:19:47 AM
Post by: IceCold on August 02, 2007, 12:33:43 PM
QuoteNo he's not. And no it isn't. It's a decent game at best, and it can't hold a candle to SSBM..
Yep you are the only one that thinks that because Power Stone 2 is one of the greatest games ever! My guess is that there will be variety of stages, changing stages and stationary stages.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 12:36:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteNo he's not. And no it isn't. It's a decent game at best, and it can't hold a candle to SSBM..
Yep you are the only one that thinks that because Power Stone 2 is one of the greatest games ever! My guess is that there will be variety of stages, changing stages and stationary stages.
Oh dear God, Ice Cold did you not see the following 2 pages after that? lol
::lends support to Ice Cold with his Kokoro Clan power.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 12:38:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: IceColdQuoteNo he's not. And no it isn't. It's a decent game at best, and it can't hold a candle to SSBM..
Yep you are the only one that thinks that because Power Stone 2 is one of the greatest games ever! My guess is that there will be variety of stages, changing stages and stationary stages.
Oh dear God, Ice Cold did you not see the following 2 pages after that? lol
Take shelter children! Take shelter while there is still time!
Post by: IceCold on August 02, 2007, 12:40:39 PM
QuoteGP, that's quite possibly the most idiotic thing you have ever said on these forums. I've never known you to flamebait like that. You've had some amazing posts in the past which I have completely agreed with, but this.. it's just beyond belief.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that Nintendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless. It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Sorry about elongating this argument, this will be my last post on the matter.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 02, 2007, 01:07:11 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 01:08:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
No, I Quick Replied.. but I would just like to add.QuoteGP, that's quite possibly the most idiotic thing you have ever said on these forums. I've never known you to flamebait like that. You've had some amazing posts in the past which I have completely agreed with, but this.. it's just beyond belief.
Smash Brothers Melee has so much depth in it that Nintendo slapped new textures over current characters and call edit quits, not to mention that only a select few characters dominate at tournaments illustrating the balance problem the game has. Not to mention they raped Bowser and made him almost useless. It is kind of odd you complain about PS2's randomness when Melee is perhaps one of the most random games out there, it is like Nintendo threw a bunch of ideas in a blender and called it good. The game felt like a game built for people who like Nintendo games so they through in whatever idea they had and called it good.
I think there is a good reason why SMash isn't that respected outside of the Nintendo core and that is because it is more of a fanboi's wet dream then a complex and balanced fighter (even if the fans try to say it is). Smash Brothers is basically a dumbed down fighter that even a two year old could learn all the combos in, with items and a smattering of stages that don't follow simplistic designs, and even then don't match the creative and diversified stages of PS2 and hectic fun.
Sorry about elongating this argument, this will be my last post on the matter.
I addressed all those points in later posts. The end.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 01:11:11 PM
Fire Emblem musical piece.
Post by: Ceric on August 02, 2007, 02:11:22 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 02:12:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
I'm going out on a limb and saying: Turtle.
Godzilla will be revealed.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 03:09:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RachtmanQuote
Originally posted by: vuduQuoteI'm quoting this for BILL because he didn't believe me when I told him people were actually suggesting this idea.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I still hold out hope that Zelda transforms into uncursed Midna instead of Sheik while retaining all of the latter's moves and style. I think it could work.
And that sounds incredibly awkward to see happen, too.
I still stand by my belief that Sakurai will make Sheik a stand-alone character with an altered moveset and slightly nerfed abilities. Anything to make those so-called "pros" wince a little.
I don't see see how my idea is any less viable then the idea for a separate Sheik. I mean Zelda and Midna did share their essences with each other in TP (man that just sounds horrible, why is my mind in the gutter?), did they not ? As for how Midna will keep Sheiks moves, the throwing blades could become shards of Twili energy, and the chain I can still see fitting with no modification. I still think that the most likely thing that will happen will be that Zelda will now transform into a redesigned Sheik.
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 02, 2007, 04:44:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Anything to make those so-called "pros" wince a little.
Oh, you mean tourneyfags. Like Dylan_Tnga lulz.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 05:07:28 PM
Something I have been meaning to bring up but keep forgetting about; does anyone else think that the "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" banner posted before the Ike update might mean that he is a hidden character, or could it just mean that Ike was completely unannounced up till that point? I wonder because part of me would actually liked to be surprised by hidden characters as I come across them, but the other part does not really care because I have always known of the hidden characters in each SSB long before I got to play the games, and would just like to know if maybe I should stop going to the site now.
In all actuality though, I am probably still going to check the Dojo everyday, regardless of the fact that they might be giving out info on secrets, so it really does not matter.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 05:15:10 PM
Quote
does anyone else think that the "Warning! Challenger Approaching!" banner posted before the Ike update might mean that he is a hidden character, or could it just mean that Ike was completely unannounced up till that point?
I think its the latter. At this point it would make little sense to reveal secret characters.
Also good find about his birthday maybe we will get a nice update today =D
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 05:27:22 PM
I would link to the article, because it is on Gameinformer.com, but I cannot remember the protocols for linking to another news site on this forum, and I would rather not break the rules.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 05:56:00 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 06:03:46 PM
If imp form Midna makes it in though I will be extremely sad.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 06:07:36 PM
Also, thanks for passing on the news anubis, as I really wanted to Shiek return as part of Zelda and keep that transformation aspect of the character intact.
Post by: OcarinaLink34 on August 02, 2007, 06:10:40 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 06:12:25 PM
I guess once this spreads Sheik and Ganondorf will just have to be announced. This pretty much confirms them.
Good find, BTW.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 06:13:48 PM
Quote
Also, thanks for passing on the news anubis, as I really wanted to Shiek return as part of Zelda and keep that transformation aspect of the character intact.
Yeah I second that motion.
Shiek is just pure bad-assness.
Quote
yea well u got basically every update from Smash Bros DOJO..but do u even no what Smash Bros is?!....u didnt seem like it....?
o_O
Edit: also from that interview
Quote
We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.
Mayhaps they will fix Zelda's wacky hair color before release?
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 06:16:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
You should just link to Game Informer and not worry about it.
I guess once this spreads Sheik and Ganondorf will just have to be announced. This pretty much confirms them.
Good find, BTW.
Yep, and let's get a quote for the Smash question in particular:
Quote
Aonuma: I’ve been working with Sakurai for a very long time with this new Smash Bros., because the Wii came out and when discussion for a new Smash Bros. took place nobody could think of anyone other than Sakurai working on it. He was kind of the default, and I was very happy to hear that he would be working on it. Actually, my designers did work on the designs for Sheik and Link and Ganondorf. So they submitted the initial designs, and so it would fit in the Smash Bros. Brawl environment, they’ve had to tweak some of the designs. But Sakurai has brought those altered designs to NCL. We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.
It will be interesting to see what Ganondorf looks like. I personally hope it's sans his beard, ala how he looked in Ocarina/Melee, but that seems very unlikely given how the other two Zelda characters were updated to their Twilight look.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 06:24:57 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 06:29:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
You should just link to Game Informer and not worry about it.
I thought about doing that but I am just one of those people who just likes to follow the rules, and when I do not know them, or remember them, I just do not do it.
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
It will be interesting to see what Ganondorf looks like. I personally hope it's sans his beard, ala how he looked in Ocarina/Melee, but that seems very unlikely given how the other two Zelda characters were updated to their Twilight look.
I personally love the TP Ganondorf design, in my opinion he is the best Ganondorf yet, and I hope that if he has his own move set in SSBB that he will use the Sword of Light. I like the contrast of an evil entity using a tool made of its antithesis.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 06:31:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Maybe Ganondorf will be yet another sword wielding character (I hope so, him being based off of Captain Falcon was kinda lame in Melee).
I loved my "heavy" Captain Falcon, personally, who was my favorite character to play as in Melee. Ganondorf is better suited as matching his attack capabilities from the Zelda games though. However, I would love it if someone carried the "heavy" Falcon torch, although with a few new moves to help separate the two more. I was actually hoping for either Black Shadow or Deathborn from the F-Zero series to take up that role, but both are pretty obscure...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 06:32:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Midna needs to make it in the game, period. What form she takes doesn't really matter to me. I think she has more than enough magic related to her to make a fairly solid movelist from.
Also, thanks for passing on the news anubis, as I really wanted to Shiek return as part of Zelda and keep that transformation aspect of the character intact.
Just slap her texture on Zelda and Nintendo can call it good then, not like they haven't done it before but hey Nintendo doesn't add stuff just to make people happy regardless of it being a clone or not.
Seriously I hope we can all agree that each character should have a unique moveset, I was severely dissapointed when Ganondorf was a clone. So come on Nintendo, you have the time, don't give us lazy characters!
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 06:33:07 PM
I just wish they give him an actual moveset this time around. FFS he's the king of all evil! He has more than enough attacks!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 06:34:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I loved Ganondorf's TP design. He had a presence not even the OoT Ganondorf had.
I just wish they give him an actual moveset this time around. FFS he's the king of all evil! He has more than enough attacks!
I hope they keep his TP design, I thought that was the best looking Ganon. Or if they want to tick everyone off they could put his fat Wind Waker design in there.
Post by: tiamat1990 on August 02, 2007, 06:41:52 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 06:44:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: tiamat1990
Wind Waker desgin...lol...Yeah I'm pretty much happy with his Twilight Princess design. He looked totally cool.
Ganon's wind waker design could have the ganon bounce where he has the deadly belly flop.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 06:49:18 PM
Quote
Just slap her texture on Zelda and Nintendo can call it good then, not like they haven't done it before but hey Nintendo doesn't add stuff just to make people happy regardless of it being a clone or not.
Seriously I hope we can all agree that each character should have a unique moveset, I was severely dissapointed when Ganondorf was a clone. So come on Nintendo, you have the time, don't give us lazy characters!
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.
Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.
Post by: LuigiHann on August 02, 2007, 06:54:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I just do not think that uncursed Midna had enough screen time to be her own character.
If imp form Midna makes it in though I will be extremely sad.
You're overlooking the most obvious possibility given your own analysis:
Uncursed Midna as a transformation for a playable Imp Midna.
I'd still expect Midna as an Assist Trophy rather than a playable character, though. I think uncursed Midna would be too much of a spoiler for such a recent game, though. Sheik was only included because of how much time had passed between OoT and Melee, so it was more or less common knowledge by that point.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 06:54:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Just slap her texture on Zelda and Nintendo can call it good then, not like they haven't done it before but hey Nintendo doesn't add stuff just to make people happy regardless of it being a clone or not.
Seriously I hope we can all agree that each character should have a unique moveset, I was severely dissapointed when Ganondorf was a clone. So come on Nintendo, you have the time, don't give us lazy characters!
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.
Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.
Regardless it still is lazy and made for some really dissapointing special characters. I've HATED doing that even back in games like Tekken or Soul Calibur. Might as well leave them out and focus on what they have instead turning in a half made character.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 06:59:22 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 07:00:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.
Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.
Sakurai and his team have a lot more time to work on Brawl than they did Melee, and not to mention he was even given his own studio location for the project. There is no doubt in my mind that the game will reek of polish, and details like the assist trophies will probably be just the tip of the iceberg.
It has been stated many times that not all of the characters will be back, and I think it's most likely that the clones will be the ones to get the axe... or updated into all new characters (as I suspect Ganondorf will be). I personally doubt we will see any new straight up clones this time around.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 07:00:49 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 07:03:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Just to clarify, what was done in Melee wasn't just slapping a texture on an existing character and calling it a day.
Nintendo did model the characters in Melee like Ganondorf, the only problem was they didn't give some of the bonus characters their own move set.
Sakurai and his team have a lot more time to work on Brawl than they did Melee, and not to mention he was even given his own studio location for the project. There is no doubt in my mind that the game will reek of polish, and details like the assist trophies will probably be just the tip of the iceberg.
It has been stated many times that not all of the characters will be back, and I think it's most likely that the clones will be the ones to get the axe... or updated into all new characters (as I suspect Ganondorf will be). I personally doubt we will see any new straight up clones this time around.
Oh I completely agree. I wasn't trying to insinuate that Brawl would lack polish or go the "clone" route again. I was just stating how calling something a texture swap is incorrect =)
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 07:04:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
To me there were only two disappointing clones in SSBM: Dr. Mario and Roy. There was not enough differences between them and the originals. Really though, all of the clone characters did have at least more uniqueness between them then the "Jacks" of Tekken, at least in my opinion anyway.
I concur, although Roy has one of the larger followings for the clones. I personally didn't care much for Young Link either (partly because, like Dr. Mario, it was actually the same character) as, despite the fact that he was different from his adult form, there didn't seem to be enough balance to compensate all the stuff he lost for the speed advantage he had.
I'm probably one of the few people who really liked Pichu though, however I couldn't help but fall into the "one trick pony routine" of trying to exploit it's fully charged skull bash.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 07:09:35 PM
Quote
I'm probably one of the few people who really liked Pichu though, however I couldn't help but fall into the "one trick pony routine" of trying to exploit it's fully charged skull bash.
Lol I fall into that category. I love messing around and using Pichu on occasions because the skull bash move is just awesome (when it hits).
Also Pichu has two different taunts that just burst with cuteness and make it all the more fun to just run from players and mock them. Oh and when he fires the Super Scope weapon he looks like he's humping it which is just added hilarity.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:10:50 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 07:14:05 PM
Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,
There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:15:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Dr. Mario was definitely the worst clone in Melee. I mean, the only reason he was included was because the team wanted to have his theme song in the game! Not to mention we technically had two Mario clones already (Luigi is a Mario clone, even though he was more unique in Melee).
Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,
There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.
Maybe him and Godzilla could team up.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 07:17:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.
Only when used to state its inferiority... Sakurai didn't have enough time to do everything he wanted, that's more than clear. A number of things had to be cut (Fire Emblem stage, Ditto, etc), this is all well known. Does the game, overall, give off the sense of a rushed product? Hardly. I would call anyone a liar who could state it as thus.
Features from the greatest games are trimmed all the time, though. Goldeneye has a regular shopping list of stuff that couldn't make it into release (Cradle was so awesome as a multiplayer stage too...), it happens. Brawl has been given a very generous development window, though, and the amount of support from the entire industry is really a phenomenon in itself as the composer list alone is a "whose who" in the industry. I really can't wait to see what Sakurai does with the game, and, as I said before, expect a level of polish and attention to detail that many games simply can't afford to do these days.
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Speaking of Luigi, if he's in Brawl I hope he's even more unique. I mean, he had Luigi's Mansion under his belt. Some of his new attacks could included using the vacuum cleaner and flashlight,
There's no excuse for him to be Mario's clone character once more.
Well, at the very least, I think we can expect a totally different Final smash attack out of him.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:22:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.
Only when used to state its inferiority... Sakurai didn't have enough time to do everything he wanted, that's more than clear. A number of things had to be cut (Fire Emblem stage, Ditto, etc), this is all well known. Does the game, overall, give off the sense of a rushed product? Hardly. I would call anyone a liar who could state it as thus.
Features from the greatest games are trimmed all the time, though. Goldeneye has a regular shopping list of stuff that couldn't make it into release (Cradle was so awesome as a multiplayer stage too...), it happens. Brawl has been given a very generous development window, though, and the amount of support from the entire industry is really a phenomenon in itself as the composer list alone is a "whose who" in the industry. I really can't wait to see what Sakurai does with the game, and, as I said before, expect a level of polish and attention to detail that many games simply can't afford to do these days.
Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being put out on the market and it gives a sense, even if it minor, of something that is not complete. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or any other genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, which give me a sense of a product being pushed out the door before everything could be fully implemented or at the very least completing what is there. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?
Maybe I"m mistaken but wasn't Melee the start of Nintendo not delaying games as much? Personally I think that contributed to the unpolished nature of games like Zelda: Wind Waker and SMS.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 07:22:49 PM
Quote
And here I get attacked when I say Melee felt rushed in places.
To be fair that past discussion wasn't over Melee feeling rushed in places and you know it
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 07:22:50 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 07:26:17 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 07:28:26 PM
2. I liked Ganondorf's design in Twilight Princess, except this goofy hair and freakishly small legs. Unless, I was seeing things, the back of his head was entirely bald. I wouldn't mind his Wind Waker robes as long as he loses 50 lbs.
3. In Melee, Luigi > Mario... but I would like Luigi to be more unique.
Ok, well, I'll be back after today's update.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:28:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I honestly think they should reclone-ify Luigi in Brawl, or at least give him the cape swipe, with more lateral movement, instead of the stupid Green missile move. If there was one clue that SSBM was rushed, it was that move. Where did it come from and why was Luigi doing it. Now if they were to keep the move I would rather Luigi change into the frog suite while charging, and unleashing the move; to me that would make much more sense within the scope of the game then him just flying across the screen for no real reason.
I think Luigi's special move should be sucking up players with his vacuum and shooting them out.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 07:31:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being rushed. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or another genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, that gives me a sense of a product being rushed before everything could be fully implemented. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?
People have different views on the clones. If you asked me, directly, would I rather see the clones included or not in Melee, my answer would be a resounding yes. I loved the unique aspects of Ganondorf, Falco and Pichu. The roster was large enough where I didn't feel "cheated" in the least by their inclusion, unlike Mecha-King Ghidorah, Godzilla 2000 and Kiryu in G: DAMM for the Gamecube/Xbox which made that roster seem really restrictive on account of it.
I would love a more unique approach to them, but I have also grown fairly attached to their play styles. I will be sad, for example, if a "heavy"-like Captain Falcon character is not included, as I loved playing as the Melee Ganondorf, or a character that could leap (and sink) like Falco could.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 07:34:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
I honestly think they should reclone-ify Luigi in Brawl, or at least give him the cape swipe, with more lateral movement, instead of the stupid Green missile move. If there was one clue that SSBM was rushed, it was that move. Where did it come from and why was Luigi doing it. Now if they were to keep the move I would rather Luigi change into the frog suite while charging, and unleashing the move; to me that would make much more sense within the scope of the game then him just flying across the screen for no real reason.
I think Luigi's special move should be sucking up players with his vacuum and shooting them out.
That would be fine as well, I just do not like the Green Missile, the move made no sense for Luigi, it just felt tacked on. Considering the depth of stuff they could have dug up from the Mario Universe that would have probably had the same effect, it just felt like they did not even try.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:39:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I can say it felt rushed at least when I see recycled move sets, that is a sign of things being rushed. I'll say the same thing about any fighting game (or another genre) where I see characters sharing the same abilities or movesets, that gives me a sense of a product being rushed before everything could be fully implemented. Hopefully Brawl does not have the same problem and they aren't trying to do too much to the point where they have to cut corners on some of the characters. Is it too much to ask that each character is unique?
People have different views on the clones. If you asked me, directly, would I rather see the clones included or not in Melee, my answer would be a resounding yes. I loved the unique aspects of Ganondorf, Falco and Pichu. The roster was large enough where I didn't feel "cheated" in the least by their inclusion, unlike Mecha-King Ghidorah, Godzilla 2000 and Kiryu in G: DAMM for the Gamecube/Xbox which made that roster seem really restrictive on account of it.
I would love a more unique approach to them, but I have also grown fairly attached to their play styles. I will be sad, for example, if a "heavy"-like Captain Falcon character is not included, as I loved playing as the Melee Ganondorf, or a character that could leap (and sink) like Falco could.
My answer would be a resounding NO, I'd rather they focus on other aspects of the game then throwing together a model and slapping an already created moveset on it, calling it a day. There is no excuse for a clone IMO, if you want different looks give a character a new costume but don't try to drive up your character list by creating a character that is nothing more than something pretty to look at yet are hollow inside.
Ganondorf was the worse offender since he is an all powerful wizard, but hey don't care about that, we need make people happy so lets give him an F-Zero drivers moveset, people will eat it up! You want to butcher a crappy character that no one cares about, I could live with it but to butcher a character that has so much potential is wrong. Ganondorf should have had his own unique personality shown through his moveset, he deserved that much.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 07:48:05 PM
The Melee character roster was such a large size already I didn't feel cheated by the clone move sets and what not.
Would it have been cool if they gave them their own move sets? Yes of course.
Did it kill the game to have clones? No.
Was it lazy? Yeah.
Would I have shot myself if all I had to play on Gamecube was Luigis mansion for months on end while they gave the characters a more unique move set? Yes. lol
Edit: does it really matter at this point anyway? lol Melee was a great game on the Cube. It's still a greatly fun game to play and Brawl is shaping up to be the be all end all of Smash games.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 07:48:42 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 07:52:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Would I have shot myself if all I had to play on Gamecube was Luigis mansion for months on end while they gave the characters a more unique move set? Yes. lol
Hey! Wave Race, Pikmin, and Super Monkey Ball should have been more then enough to hold you over.
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 07:53:17 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 07:57:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Dr. Mario as a Mario clone in Brawl is ok; as long as, he's an alt. for Mario instead of a fully separate character. That'd be nice.
I would be fine with that, at least then you know they are being honest about the REAL character roster. What I can't stand, and frankly I do find it a bit unethical, is to advertise a game having X amount of characters yet when you unlock them you find out they are nothing more than a model swap.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:03:29 PM
Massive update goto site NOW!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 02, 2007, 08:04:36 PM
Plus we get to see Peach.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:11:42 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:14:35 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 08:14:58 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:15:48 PM
Best update yet?
You decide!
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 08:15:48 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:15:56 PM
I was really hoping Adventure mode would turn into something grander for Brawl, but this is beyond my expectations...
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:17:27 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 08:17:38 PM
Looks neat, though! I just hope they put just as much attention to the multiplayer side of things since multiplayer IS what the SSB series is all about.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:17:44 PM
(So hyped now . . . even more so than before which is. . . I didn't even know this level of anticipation was possible).
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:18:52 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:18:53 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:20:12 PM
Quote
Looks neat, though! I just hope they put just as much attention to the multiplayer side of things since multiplayer IS what the SSB series is all about.
Please, would you honestly worry about Brawls multiplayer? come on that's just silly.
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:20:16 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:20:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Peach looks great, the screenshots look awesome, I just want the movie to load!!! lol.
(So hyped now . . . even more so than before which is. . . I didn't even know this level of anticipation was possible).
The movie loaded fine. And I know this level of anticipation is possible because I anticipate Mario Galaxy more than you can believe.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:21:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I, too, am having trouble with this video loading. I wonder if there's some sort of problem.
Likewise. It is loading, though, just very slowly.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:22:09 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:23:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
This is an update that will definitely piss S_B off (especially if online was axed in favor of a detailed single player mode).
Looks neat, though! I just hope they put just as much attention to the multiplayer side of things since multiplayer IS what the SSB series is all about.
Smash would be justified too, honestly I don't see why people are so excited about the single player mode. Who here honestly believes it will be great? If it is great then that could indicate the focus being taken off multiplayer which would probably tick off alot of people. I think people are going to be in for a dissapointment who think this single player mode is going to be the greatest thing ever, it will probably be solid (better than Melee most likely) but I don't think it will be a game seller.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:26:10 PM
and with this update it looks to be one mighty fine tasting icing.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:27:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Yeah because people would buy Brawl for the single player ::face palm:: come on GP you know as well as everyone on this forum knows and everyone that's going to buy brawl knows that a good 1 player adventure mode is icing on the cake.
and with this update it looks to be one mighty fine tasting icing.
I'll have to wait and see how it actually plays, until then it has promise but I'm not going to give my hopes up.
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:29:40 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:29:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash would be justified too, honestly I don't see why people are so excited about the single player mode. Who here honestly believes it will be great? If it is great then that could indicate the focus being taken off multiplayer which would probably tick off alot of people. I think people are going to be in for a dissapointment who think this single player mode is going to be the greatest thing ever, it will probably be solid (better than Melee most likely) but I don't think it will be a game seller.
Umm... yeah... Starting to get the picture that this game could part the red sea, and it would still merit complaints...
Multiplayer in Melee was pretty fantastic. Increasing how great single player is seems like the next evolutionary step. Many people are probably going to be itching to complain about how it's "too similar to Melee" and this is definitely working to differentiate the game from its predecessor.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:31:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
It's more like: If THIS much effort was spent on the adventure mode, then the effort put on the multiplayer mode must be astronomical. At least, that's the feeling I get.
TVman you deserve this in bold:
QFT
I feel the same way.
Edit: the cinematic is almost fully loaded....so far it looks so beautiful.
I have to say Mario waving to a crowd and getting applause is just awesome ::tears come to eyes::
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:32:53 PM
I like to think of myself as a word smith. Usually when I talk (out loud), my speech has a similar effect.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:33:48 PM
Zelda gets + 10000000 cool points for best "coming to aide comrades" entrance ever.
Lol freaking awesome update. Best week ever for updates.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:35:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Smash would be justified too, honestly I don't see why people are so excited about the single player mode. Who here honestly believes it will be great? If it is great then that could indicate the focus being taken off multiplayer which would probably tick off alot of people. I think people are going to be in for a dissapointment who think this single player mode is going to be the greatest thing ever, it will probably be solid (better than Melee most likely) but I don't think it will be a game seller.
Umm... yeah... Starting to get the picture that this game could part the red sea, and it would still merit complaints...
Multiplayer in Melee was pretty fantastic. Increasing how great single player is seems like the next evolutionary step. Many people are probably going to be itching to complain about how it's "too similar to Melee" and this is definitely working to differentiate the game from its predecessor.
Because we know how great the single player mode will be right? I am just trying to bring down this unsubstantiated excitement when we really know nothing about the single player besides this teaser, heck we don't even know that much about the multiplayer.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:37:56 PM
Who the hell questions Smash's multiplayer. Holy mother of god. IT'S SMASH BROS.
::slams head into a wall::
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:38:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Because we know how great the single player mode will be right? I am just trying to bring down this unsubstantiated excitement when we really know nothing about the single player besides this teaser...
Likewise, how much did we know about Mario Galaxy when it was first announced? How much do you know about it now, or know how great it will be?
Mario Galaxy is one of my most anticipated titles (although way behind Brawl), and personally I didn't need unsubstantiated proof that it is going to be a great game to get excited about it, and nor do I here for the new Adventure Mode.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:40:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Because we know how great the single player mode will be right? I am just trying to bring down this unsubstantiated excitement when we really know nothing about the single player besides this teaser...
Likewise, how much did we know about Mario Galaxy when it was first announced? How much do you know about it now, or know how great it will be?
Mario Galaxy is one of my most anticipated titles (although way behind Brawl), and personally I didn't need unsubstantiated proof that it is going to be a great game to get excited about it, and nor do I here for the new Adventure Mode.
Exactly!
Also questioning Brawl's multiplayer is like questioning Mario Galaxy's single player.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:41:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Because we know how great the single player mode will be right? I am just trying to bring down this unsubstantiated excitement when we really know nothing about the single player besides this teaser...
Likewise, how much did we know about Mario Galaxy when it was first announced? How much do you know about it now, or know how great it will be?
Mario Galaxy is one of my most anticipated titles (although way behind Brawl), and personally I didn't need unsubstantiated proof that it is going to be a great game to get excited about it, and nor do I here for the new Adventure Mode.
Mario Galaxy has actually been played and has had hands on impressions (Heck wasn't it playable when it was announced?). Not to mention we have a myriad of videos of the single player in action. What do we have for Smash Brothers? A couple short trailers and pics? No one has really gotten to play it, so there is no telling what single player is going to be like. You KNOW what Mario Galaxies will be like because you've seen big chunks of it being played or watched the detailed trailers.
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 08:41:16 PM
Quote
Who here honestly believes it will be great?
I do.
And I don't think the multiplayer will suffer because of it. This team, which is likely larger than Hal Labs, weren't rushed nor did they start from scratch as they were given all source material.
On an unrelated note, I love reading Mashiro's posts. Always good for a chuckle. Face palm.... gold...
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:44:51 PM
GP is being completely non-sensical tonight once again so I will just be turning a blind eye to her comments which make no sense what so ever.
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 08:46:17 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:46:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I try Adrock I try.
GP is being completely non-sensical tonight once again so I will just be turning a blind eye to her comments which make no sense what so ever.
How am I being non-sensical? The fact remains that we know what Mario Galaxy will be like because we've seen and read impressions on it, Brawl's single player is still a mystery. I fail to see how that is non-sensical.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:48:36 PM
Quote
We know the single player will be great in Brawl because it was good in Melee and looks improved. And, when you improve good, you get great. It's really that simple.
Again TVman sums it up perfectly.
Thank you TVman =)
Post by: Smoke39 on August 02, 2007, 08:50:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I am just trying to bring down this unsubstantiated excitement.
Talk about a party pooper. Getting excited about a new game is fun. Mellow out.
Post by: Mikintosh on August 02, 2007, 08:51:33 PM
And honestly, I believe this is the most work put into a Smash Bros. game (the first had a small budget, and the second was on the fast track to make the Gamecube launch window), so I doubt that the multiplayer is anything less than an improvement, or at least at Melee's level. How could you judge the single player mode to be bad off some screens and a movie? It looks a better, game-long version of the Mushroom Kingdom/Hyrule Castle/etc. scenes from Adventure mode with enemies and a lil story. I'm really looking forward to it, HEEDLESSLY.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 02, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:53:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Unsubstantiated praise is the lifeblood of this board, how could you supress it?
And honestly, I believe this is the most work put into a Smash Bros. game (the first had a small budget, and the second was on the fast track to make the Gamecube launch window), so I doubt that the multiplayer is anything less than an improvement, or at least at Melee's level. How could you judge the single player mode to be bad off some screens and a movie? It looks a better, game-long version of the Mushroom Kingdom/Hyrule Castle/etc. scenes from Adventure mode with enemies and a lil story. I'm really looking forward to it, HEEDLESSLY.
Where did I say it is bad? Heck I said I had promise but until we know more I don't see why it is getting so much hype. I also believe I said Melee had a good single player in it and this could be better.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 08:53:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Wha...what is wrong with you people?
Who the hell questions Smash's multiplayer. Holy mother of god. IT'S SMASH BROS.
::slams head into a wall::
The heart of the multiplayer lies within the fighting engine and we all know that Melee's engine was lacking polish, was rushed and could've been better had they taken their time with it. Brawl is the perfect opportunity for the developing team to make the game Melee was supposed to be and MORE. So it would be disheartening that a great chunk of the developing time was spent working on the single player rather than to work the kinks out of the fighting system.
Hell as much as I hate to say it by the way they are touting the single player being one of Brawl's biggest features I believe that the online mode was pretty much scrapped.
Sorry for being cynical and pessimistic but that's how I see things. As much as I love Nintendo they have the tendency of going against logical thinking on occasion.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:53:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
We know the single player will be great in Brawl because it was good in Melee and looks improved. And, when you improve good, you get great. It's really that simple.
QFT
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Here's the Youtube Link for the video for anyone's computer that wont load it on the official site.
Awesome, thank you... it simply won't load all the way on my computer on the main site.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:54:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Wha...what is wrong with you people?
Who the hell questions Smash's multiplayer. Holy mother of god. IT'S SMASH BROS.
::slams head into a wall::
The heart of the multiplayer lies within the fighting engine and we all know that Melee's engine was lacking polish, was rushed and could've been better had they taken their time with it. Brawl is the perfect opportunity for the developing time to make the game Melee was supposed to be and MORE. So it would be disheartening that a great chunk of the developing time was spent working on the single player rather than to work the kinks out of the fighting system.
Hell as much as I hate to say it by the way they are touting the single player being one of Brawl's biggest features I believe that the online mode was pretty much scrapped.
Sorry for being cynical and pessimistic but that's how I see things. As much as I love Nintendo they have the tendency of going against logical thinking on occasion.
Thank you pap, but prepare to get flamed. Also never mention that Smash Brothers Brawl's single player mode is anything less than Nintendo's best platformer because that is being closed minded.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:54:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Here's the Youtube Link for the video for anyone's computer that wont load it on the official site.
Pure awesome =D
(Absolutely love the detail in Peach's dress)
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 02, 2007, 08:56:32 PM
Also, epic update is epiiiiiic.
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 08:56:36 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 08:56:59 PM
So this new single player focus isn't something new.
Edit: Does anyone seriously doubt the game that's been delayed for over a year?
This thing is leaking with polish. I would be shocked absolutely shocked if the entire game wasn't a polished experience.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:57:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Hell as much as I hate to say it by the way they are touting the single player being one of Brawl's biggest features I believe that the online mode was pretty much scrapped.
Wait, what? It's gotten an update in a blog. Nothing in that blog touts it as one of Brawl's "biggest features". Tonight is the first night we have heard about it, and it has gotten just slightly more attention than most of their other blog updates. It's not like they gave it a press conference or anything, so I fail to see how this leads one to conclude the fate of online play...
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:58:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Hell as much as I hate to say it by the way they are touting the single player being one of Brawl's biggest features I believe that the online mode was pretty much scrapped.
Wait, what? It's gotten an update in a blog. Nothing in that blog touts it as one of Brawl's "biggest features". Tonight is the first night we have heard about it, and it has gotten just slightly more attention than most of their other blog updates. It's not like they gave it a press conference or anything, so I fail to see how this leads one to conclude the fate of online play...
All except this being the greatest thing ever, I guess it isn't being touted by you guys.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 08:58:15 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 08:59:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
All except this being the greatest thing ever, I guess it isn't being touted by you guys.
Right, and we are the ones who decide the fate of online play, I guess then?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:00:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
All except this being the greatest thing ever, I guess it isn't being touted by you guys.
Right, and we are the ones who decide the fate of online play, I guess then?
Actually you have me there, you guys will take it with or without online play and won't go after Nintendo for slashing the most touted feature the game has.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:02:48 PM
So is everyone who says Brawl won't have online.
This was THE LAST UPDATE.
Brawl launches tomorrow there is no hope.
Oh wait . . .
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:03:02 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
All except this being the greatest thing ever, I guess it isn't being touted by you guys.
Right, and we are the ones who decide the fate of online play, I guess then?
Actually you have me there, you guys will take it with or without online play and won't go after Nintendo for slashing the most touted feature the game has.
Wait, how did this change from a discussion of them touting single player as one of the "biggest features", meaning somehow online was cut, to how we feel about online play being there or not?
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:03:09 PM
Post by: Mikintosh on August 02, 2007, 09:03:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Hell as much as I hate to say it by the way they are touting the single player being one of Brawl's biggest features I believe that the online mode was pretty much scrapped.
Wait, what? It's gotten an update in a blog. Nothing in that blog touts it as one of Brawl's "biggest features". Tonight is the first night we have heard about it, and it has gotten just slightly more attention than most of their other blog updates. It's not like they gave it a press conference or anything, so I fail to see how this leads one to conclude the fate of online play...
All except this being the greatest thing ever, I guess it isn't being touted by you guys.
Yeah, but we're not making the game...so Pap's theory makes no sense then. The actual development team has had about 99% of their updates on multiplayer stuff, and only one on the single player. I don't think that's "touting".
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:04:08 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 09:04:43 PM
I mean sure it looks cool, but will it be fun? Single player adventure modes in fighting games have been notorious for not being that good (the adventure mode in the Tekken games come to mind). What makes the single player mode in Brawl any different?
As S_B will tell you hype can get your hopes up in the biggest way possible. When that thing doesn't meet your expectations the disappointment can be devastating. The single player in Brawl sounds really neat, but again we don't know how good it will be.
In short, despite how exciting something may sound its best to have a neutral way of looking at it. That way, if the thing is better than you expected it will be far more enjoyable and if it sucks you won't be as heartbroken.
You know the news that we should get excited for? The announcement of a fully working, 4 player online mode without the use of friend codes.
Now THAT is worth going crazy over.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:05:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
So, as to not focus on the current argument, does anyone think that there'll be more expansions on this? I mean, the trailer was just a follow up to the "This World" post.
I think so, we only got the tip of what seems to be the intro cinematic, or at least the cinematic for the single player adventure mode.
I was so happy to finally see a movie update but now I want more haha.
Edit: Sorry pap but we don't need excitement police on the forums. Just my opinion.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:06:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Forgot to mention in the other post is that GP is simply preventing you guys from getting over excited over something that we don't know how will work in the end.
I would actually call it stealth trolling at this point.
Post by: Mikintosh on August 02, 2007, 09:06:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
So, as to not focus on the current argument, does anyone think that there'll be more expansions on this? I mean, the trailer was just a follow up to the "This World" post.
Nah, I think they just want to give a glimpse. The game's coming out in a few months, they'll probably want to leave it until then. Maybe they'll have a profile on the punching bag-esque guys.
Small note, but it seems like they're holding onto the old Zelda and Peach voices, even though I believe they've changed actresses in both series.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:06:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Forgot to mention in the other post is that GP is simply preventing you guys from getting over excited over something that we don't know how will work in the end.
I mean sure it looks cool, but will it be fun? Single player adventure modes in fighting games have been notorious for not being that good (the adventure mode in the Tekken games come to mind). What makes the single player mode in Brawl any different?
As S_B will tell you hype can get your hopes up in the biggest way possible. When that thing doesn't meet your expectations the disappointment can be devastating. The single player in Brawl sounds really neat, but again we don't know how good it will be.
In short, despite how exciting something may sound its best to have a neutral way of looking at it. That way, if the thing is better than you expected it will be far more enjoyable and if it sucks you won't be as heartbroken.
You know the news that we should get excited for? The announcement of a fully working, 4 player online mode without the use of friend codes.
Now THAT is worth going crazy over.
That is the one feature that I WOULD get excited over because I could finally beat the crap out of Mashiro and Arbok.
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 09:07:44 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:08:17 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:08:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Forgot to mention in the other post is that GP is simply preventing you guys from getting over excited over something that we don't know how will work in the end.
I would actually call it stealth trolling at this point.
Yeah because what I said was so flame worthy. Give me a break. If I have a problem it is being realistic and waiting for something more substantial to point out. To call that trolling is being snobbish to be honest, because I fail to get excited over something I know little about and share that opinion that doesn't align with yours, then that must mean I am just trying to bash the game right?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:09:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lies Carry-on! You know I am optimistic about there being online play.
Let me ask you? What if they axe the feature, what will you do then?
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:10:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lies Carry-on! You know I am optimistic about there being online play.
Let me ask you? What if they axe the feature, what will you do then?
I'll be very mad.
but hey guess what?
THERE ARE STILL 85 DAYS WORTH OF UPDATES COMING. THERE ARE STILL 2 MASSIVE GAME CONVENTIONS COMING.
There is still time for the announcement people.
Quote
ecause I fail to get excited over something I know little about and share that opinion that doesn't align with yours, then that must mean I am just trying to bash the game right?
Well you're deliberately trying to ruin our fun so =P
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:11:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lies Carry-on! You know I am optimistic about there being online play.
Let me ask you? What if they axe the feature, what will you do then?
I'll be very mad.
but hey guess what?
THERE ARE STILL 85 DAYS WORTH OF UPDATES COMING. THERE ARE STILL 2 MASSIVE GAME CONVENTIONS COMING.
There is still time for the announcement people.
I'm holding you to that!
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 02, 2007, 09:11:45 PM
EDIT: Me specifically. My best friend is moving 3000 miles away. We still play Melee all the time.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:13:01 PM
Who WOULDN'T be mad if online was axed.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:13:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
GP stop being an idiot. All of us want online multiplayer, and all of us will go absolutely apesh!t if there isn't any.
EDIT: Me specifically. My best friend is moving 3000 miles away. We still play Melee all the time.
Classey, really classey Dirk.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:15:57 PM
Unfair assumptions my dear.
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 09:16:34 PM
There's really nothing to suggest that online was axed at the expense of the new Adventure mode. If there's no online, I think it'd be due to it not working well enough to implement broken. Fighting games rely on frame by frame accuracy. If they can't keep that in tact, it's almost not worth including and I certainly wouldn't want it half-assed either.
Anyway... I hope that's Palutina in the bottom right pic above the movie and that's she's selectable. Newcomer Palutina. OMG! L33t.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:17:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
He's right though, you are making out like just because some of us didn't get absolutely pissed over clones in Melee that we will just be ok with certain features (or lack of features) in Brawl such as online.
Unfair assumptions my dear.
We'll see, if the response to me trying to bring down the single player mode to land levels is any indication I'm not sure if the game can do no wrong.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:19:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
He's right though, you are making out like just because some of us didn't get absolutely pissed over clones in Melee that we will just be ok with certain features (or lack of features) in Brawl such as online.
Unfair assumptions my dear.
We'll see.
Yeah I'll be super happy about no online. Is that what you're waiting to see? Get real.
Thanks for ruining my freaking happiness over this update. Next time you wanna kill the mood keep it to yourself for a day or something yesh.
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:19:49 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 09:19:53 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 09:21:12 PM
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:21:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
He's right though, you are making out like just because some of us didn't get absolutely pissed over clones in Melee that we will just be ok with certain features (or lack of features) in Brawl such as online.
Unfair assumptions my dear.
We'll see.
Yeah I'll be super happy about no online. Is that what you're waiting to see? Get real.
Thanks for ruining my freaking happiness over this update. Next time you wanna kill the mood keep it to yourself for a day or something yesh.
Yeah, anyone that has a different take on something in Smash Brothers should learn to keep it to themselves, can't have opposing opinions here. Nono, not that.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:22:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Look, Nintendo knows how we feel about online. They know how we feel about Brawl online. If there is ANY shred of the hardcore-appeasing, non-casual-cradling Nintendo still left in that company, if they have any decency or any respect for the fans that made them who they are with years of blind loyalty, then there will be some sort of online for Brawl. Even if it's just 1-on-1.
I really hope if online is there it is 4 player if it is possible. I'll be dissapointed if it is only 1 on 1 since I've never really enjoyed playing 1 on 1 matches in Smash. Then again if they include bots that are somewhat challenging that could help.
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 09:24:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah, anyone that has a different take on something in Smash Brothers should learn to keep it to themselves, can't have opposing opinions here. Nono, not that.
Same with Alien Syndrome and FarCry and Sprung and countless other games! *ggrrrrrr* I'll take on all comers! Have at ya! Have at ya!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:24:31 PM
Post by: SixthAngel on August 02, 2007, 09:25:01 PM
This new update has put Smash Bros. way up on my list. It was below my top 3 but if the single player pans out it is moving right next to Mario Galaxy.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yeah, anyone that has a different take on something in Smash Brothers should learn to keep it to themselves, can't have opposing opinions here. Nono, not that.
Same with Alien Syndrome and FarCry and Sprung and countless other games! *ggrrrrrr* I'll take on all comers! Have at ya! Have at ya!
The funny thing is that I thought Melee was a great game and I have no doubt Brawl will be even better, yet I'm made out to be this super hardcore Brawl hater because I question the single player mode.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:25:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
We'll see, if the response to me trying to bring down the single player mode to land levels is any indication I'm not sure if the game can do no wrong.
To what point? Is there something wrong if people get very excited in this thread about a new feature that has just been announced? People go crazy over a bullet point in a press release sometimes that states something new, but we are being shown it here through screens. Our excitement is not totally unfounded or anything, nor does it substantiate that the multiplayer must suffer or other excuses I have heard for why we, I guess, shouldn't be celebrating.
Stealth trolling was poor wording on my part before, but, in the vein I was going for, you certainly seem to be trying to "rain on everybody's parade" about what is simply a newly announced and more "robust" single player mode.
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 09:26:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
Look, Nintendo knows how we feel about online. They know how we feel about Brawl online. If there is ANY shred of the hardcore-appeasing, non-casual-cradling Nintendo still left in that company, if they have any decency or any respect for the fans that made them who they are with years of blind loyalty, then there will be some sort of online for Brawl. Even if it's just 1-on-1.
I really hope if online is there it is 4 player if it is possible. I'll be dissapointed if it is only 1 on 1 since I've never really enjoyed playing 1 on 1 matches in Smash. Then again if they include bots that are somewhat challenging that could help.
Super Pessimist: No online
Pessimist: 1v1 online only, no items
Optimist: 4 player online, 2 consoles only, items maybe
Super Optimist: 4 player online, 4 consoles, items
I choose Optimist!
I don't want to imagine what Ian-level pessimism would be...
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:27:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Here's the problem with that logic, TVman.
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
I have a problem with that, too, but I don't see this as some sort of distraction from a lack of online play. with 85 update days to go, I just have to believe, for no reason other than my own stubbornness to not give up hope, that it will exist. I just really want them to be saving it for when hype for the game is dying down amongst the releases of other big name titles across the board.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:27:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
Look, Nintendo knows how we feel about online. They know how we feel about Brawl online. If there is ANY shred of the hardcore-appeasing, non-casual-cradling Nintendo still left in that company, if they have any decency or any respect for the fans that made them who they are with years of blind loyalty, then there will be some sort of online for Brawl. Even if it's just 1-on-1.
I really hope if online is there it is 4 player if it is possible. I'll be dissapointed if it is only 1 on 1 since I've never really enjoyed playing 1 on 1 matches in Smash. Then again if they include bots that are somewhat challenging that could help.
Super Pessimist: No online
Pessimist: 1v1 online only, no items
Optimist: 4 player online, 2 consoles only, items maybe
Super Optimist: 4 player online, 4 consoles, items
I choose Optimist!
You know I wonder if they could possibly tone down the visuals for online play? Wouldn't that help stability?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:28:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Here's the problem with that logic, TVman.
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
I have a problem with that, too, but I don't see this as some sort of distraction from a lack of online play. with 85 update days to go, I just have to believe, for no reason other than my own stubbornness to not give up hope, that it will exist. I just really want them to be saving it for when hype for the game is dying down amongst the releases of other big name titles across the board.
When is this so called dying down of big releases? Seems like we have a pretty packed schedule this winter!
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:30:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
Brawl's revealing habits have been anything but normal, this daily blog is proof enough of that. If Sakurai has the level of control that it appears he does over when major stuff is shown off, then I certainly wouldn't start coming to conclusions about features. After all, we know nothing about the other third party characters in the game. That would probably be a major game seller, and other developers would be chanting their names... but that's not the case, and I don't think Snake will be the only one simply because they have been silent on it for so long.
Post by: SixthAngel on August 02, 2007, 09:31:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
When is this so called dying down of big releases? Seems like we have a pretty packed schedule this winter!
He meant the hype for Brawl being drowned out by the other big names that people will be talking about. Even amidst releases of Halo 3 brawl having online would be a huge announcement the gaming press would all pick up.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:32:09 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:32:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Here's the problem with that logic, TVman.
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
I have a problem with that, too, but I don't see this as some sort of distraction from a lack of online play. with 85 update days to go, I just have to believe, for no reason other than my own stubbornness to not give up hope, that it will exist. I just really want them to be saving it for when hype for the game is dying down amongst the releases of other big name titles across the board.
When is this so called dying down of big releases? Seems like we have a pretty packed schedule this winter!
Well, think about it. We're all talking about Brawl now, but what are we playing? Strikers? Pfft. Now, what will we be playing this fall? A ton of sh!t, especially if you own more than one system. Besides, you can expect Brawl to be the talk of the town forever. All I was suggesting is that once it drops from the spot of the first four words on everyone's lips is when they'll announce online play.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:34:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Here's the problem with that logic, TVman.
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
I have a problem with that, too, but I don't see this as some sort of distraction from a lack of online play. with 85 update days to go, I just have to believe, for no reason other than my own stubbornness to not give up hope, that it will exist. I just really want them to be saving it for when hype for the game is dying down amongst the releases of other big name titles across the board.
When is this so called dying down of big releases? Seems like we have a pretty packed schedule this winter!
Well, think about it. We're all talking about Brawl now, but what are we playing? Strikers? Pfft. Now, what will we be playing this fall? A ton of sh!t, especially if you own more than one system. Besides, you can expect Brawl to be the talk of the town forever. All I was suggesting is that once it drops from the spot of the first four words on everyone's lips is when they'll announce online play.
If only you could see the games I am interested in this year, I have trouble getting excited about anything because there is SO MUCH!
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
THis is an off topic question (kind of) but how long has Brawl been in development? Two years?
Give or take. The old site used to say exactly when, but, as I recall, it started to move toward becoming reality shortly after the Wii's first E3 (when we saw that pre-rendered Metroid footage).
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 09:35:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
THis is an off topic question (kind of) but how long has Brawl been in development? Two years?
If I am not mistaken, roughly a year.
From Wikipedia:
"Masahiro Sakurai, former HAL Laboratory employee and creator of Kirby and the Super Smash Bros. series, returns as the director for the game. Sakurai revealed that at E3, he was called to executive producer Satoru Iwata's room on the top floor of a Los Angeles hotel, and told by Iwata, "We'd like you to be involved in the production of the new Smash Bros., if possible near the level of director".[17] Although originally suggested to be a launch title, an IGN article states that "as of May 2005, the game's development staff consisted of exactly one person," Sakurai himself, actual development of the game never started until late 2005. Sakurai states that many people who have spent excessive amounts of time playing Super Smash Bros. Melee are being brought in as the development team and the team will have access to all the original material and tools from the development of Melee, courtesy of HAL Laboratory.[18]
The game was absent from Nintendo's Wii showing at its 2006 Pre-E3 press conference. The next day, on Wednesday, May 10, 2006, at the After-Hours Press Conference, Nintendo officially revealed the game under the name of Super Smash Bros. Brawl. In an interview with IGN, Sakurai said the Wii's motion sensing features might not be included because, "we found that trying to implement too much motion-sensory functionality can get in the way of the game."[14] As far as Wi-Fi play is concerned, both Iwata and Sakurai have expressed an interest in the incorporation of some functionality.[19][14] However, as stated in the Toukouken on the Japanese version of the Smash Bros. website, "there would be many hurdles to cross," and an online ranking system is unlikely to be implemented.[20]
Sakurai has updated the site to say that it will be a little longer before the game will be playable. During a test play between Sakurai and Hideo Kojima, Kojima stated that the game feels complete and that Nintendo "could put it out right now and it could sell millions of copies."[21] Starting May 22, 2007, the site has had updates every weekday. At the Nintendo Media Conference at E3 2007, it was announced by Reggie Fils-Aime that Super Smash Bros. Brawl would be released on December 3, 2007 in the Americas. [2]"
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:36:17 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:39:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Apparently true development began late 2005.
Yep, seems establishing the team behind the game took longer than I recalled, although it did stick in memory about that E3 being the first time Sakurai was actually confronted with the idea of doing a Smash Bros for the Wii.
I do wish that old post of his was still live... I loved reading his shocked words about those people on his team that had rubbed down the "grooves" on the Gamecube joysticks from playing Melee too much. ^_^
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:40:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Here's the problem with that logic, TVman.
Back when Endless Ocean, Mario Strikers Charged and Batallion Wars were announced they confirmed right away that they would have online play.
With Brawl, however, all that we have heard about the online play is that they only got 1 on 1 matches working and that stuff like leader boards and ranked matches would be hard to pull off.
Since then, nothing. The fact that they are keeping quiet and have said nothing but negative stuff leads me to believe that online was somehow scrapped and they are making up for it by including a detailed single player.
Of course, I am the first to admit that I could be dead wrong with this and there's the opportunity that they will make a massive announcement about it. I'm just saying that the silence on online play along with the big emphasis on single player mode leads me to believe that something is up.
I have a problem with that, too, but I don't see this as some sort of distraction from a lack of online play. with 85 update days to go, I just have to believe, for no reason other than my own stubbornness to not give up hope, that it will exist. I just really want them to be saving it for when hype for the game is dying down amongst the releases of other big name titles across the board.
When is this so called dying down of big releases? Seems like we have a pretty packed schedule this winter!
Well, think about it. We're all talking about Brawl now, but what are we playing? Strikers? Pfft. Now, what will we be playing this fall? A ton of sh!t, especially if you own more than one system. Besides, you can expect Brawl to be the talk of the town forever. All I was suggesting is that once it drops from the spot of the first four words on everyone's lips is when they'll announce online play.
If only you could see the games I am interested in this year, I have trouble getting excited about anything because there is SO MUCH!
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:42:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:46:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
Lol. Well, I'm just glad this arguing stopped. I'm gonna go to bed just as soon as my Naruto download finishes.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:47:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
Lol. Well, I'm just glad this arguing stopped. I'm gonna go to bed just as soon as my Naruto download finishes.
Come back tomorrow night for yet another Brawl in honor of Smash Brothers Brawl.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:47:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
Lol. Well, I'm just glad this arguing stopped. I'm gonna go to bed just as soon as my Naruto download finishes.
TVman wins yet again for downloading Naruto lol.
I'm doing the same. My friend and I are gonna watch it tomorrow after the Blizzcon press conference. Then it's off to blockbuster to rent strikers.
yay for hour long Naruto specials!
/gnight
Post by: nickmitch on August 02, 2007, 09:48:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVmanQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
And what would make you more pumped about Brawl than online play? There is simply just a better time for the announcement than right now.
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
Lol. Well, I'm just glad this arguing stopped. I'm gonna go to bed just as soon as my Naruto download finishes.
Come back tomorrow night for yet another Brawl in honor of Smash Brothers Brawl.
I was hoping tomorrow that we can all get together like this and throughly over examine each screen shot from this post. That should be a rousing good time.
Post by: Kairon on August 02, 2007, 09:51:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
The minute Spore ships is the minute my life goes down the toilet. So no... I would NOT be happy at such an announcement.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:51:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
I was hoping tomorrow that we can all get together like this and throughly over examine each screen shot from this post. That should be a rousing good time.
Yeah, I was really kind of hoping we could have done that tonight...
Anyway, is anyone else getting the Ganon vibe from the enemy above here?
Will be interesting to see what characters are, I guess, behind the things that happen in Adventure mode... and what it might be like, if at all different, when one plays as Metaknight or something there.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:52:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Well I do hope you are right. Though I can think of one announcement that would make me happier.....SPORE THIS YEAR!
The minute Spore ships is the minute my life goes down the toilet. So no... I would NOT be happy at such an announcement.
But does any of us know if spore will actually be any good?
Totally kidding but I felt like being a jerk
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:52:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
I was hoping tomorrow that we can all get together like this and throughly over examine each screen shot from this post. That should be a rousing good time.
Yeah, I was really kind of hoping we could have done that tonight...
Anyway, is anyone else getting the Ganon vibe from the enemy above here?
Will be interesting to see what characters are, I guess, behind the things that happen in Adventure mode... and what it might be like, if at all different, when one plays as Metaknight or something there.
Looks like Ganon is trying to be Dr. Wily.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 09:53:34 PM
.In all seriousness, I was wondering if they are going to include some of Peach's move from Super Princess Peach. Maybe her final smash is having the mother of all mood swings! The attack will depending on her mood. For example, if she's angry the stage gets on fire and when she cries she floods it.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:54:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
I was hoping tomorrow that we can all get together like this and throughly over examine each screen shot from this post. That should be a rousing good time.
Yeah, I was really kind of hoping we could have done that tonight...
Anyway, is anyone else getting the Ganon vibe from the enemy above here?
Will be interesting to see what characters are, I guess, behind the things that happen in Adventure mode... and what it might be like, if at all different, when one plays as Metaknight or something there.
The skill has a distinct Doctor Wiley feel to it . . .
Edit: to hell with GP for beating me to the punch =P
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:54:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Bah, the argument isn't quite over. We still haven't heard Smash_Brother's opinion and we ALL know his feelings on Melee and Single Player Smash
In all seriousness, I think wondering if they are going to include some of Peach's move from Super Princess Peach. Maybe her final smash is having the mother of all mood swings! The attack will depending on her mood. For example, if she's angry the stage gets on fire and when she cries she floods it.
I think pap should design the game.
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 09:56:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Looks like Ganon is trying to be Dr. Wily.
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
The skill has a distinct Doctor Wiley feel to it . . .
Creepy. Anyway, I would love if some third party characters were tossed into the villain canon for whatever might be going on here. I'd rather have Sigma, myself, though, if we were dipping into the Mega Man universe for an antagonist... although I would also want him playable.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 02, 2007, 09:57:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: pap64
Bah, the argument isn't quite over. We still haven't heard Smash_Brother's opinion and we ALL know his feelings on Melee and Single Player Smash
In all seriousness, I think wondering if they are going to include some of Peach's move from Super Princess Peach. Maybe her final smash is having the mother of all mood swings! The attack will depending on her mood. For example, if she's angry the stage gets on fire and when she cries she floods it.
I think pap should design the game.
If I'm not mistaken that was actually Peach's attack in SPP.
Considering that the characters' attack have been inspired by their recent games so far I wouldn't be surprised if Peach did have her attacks from SPP.
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 09:59:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Looks like Ganon is trying to be Dr. Wily.Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
The skill has a distinct Doctor Wiley feel to it . . .
Creepy. Anyway, I would love if some third party characters were tossed into the villain canon for whatever might be going on here. I'd rather have Sigma, myself, though, if we were dipping into the Mega Man universe for an antagonist... although I would also want him playable.
Can it only be the X games on the SNES (They kinda made Sigma a babbling idiot towards the end of the X series on PS). But yeah classic Sigma would be so freaking awesome (and he would have his dog! <3)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 09:59:48 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 02, 2007, 10:01:35 PM
Does anyone have any insight on whose arm that might be in the shot? Might be someone obvious that I'm overlooking, but nothing springs to mind.
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
But yeah classic Sigma would be so freaking awesome (and he would have his dog! <3)
I agree. Sigma in the first game would be my choice... lightsaber and all.
Post by: Strell on August 02, 2007, 10:02:15 PM
Good to see so many people arguing over the very thing I have a bet on!
DANCE PUPPETS. DANCE!
Post by: EasyCure on August 02, 2007, 10:04:15 PM
There's no way we'll get a great week of updates two weeks in a row and still have stuff to hype up the game to megaton proportions right before its release
Post by: Mashiro on August 02, 2007, 10:05:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Okay, here is my big question:
Does anyone have any insight on whose arm that might be in the shot? Might be someone obvious that I'm overlooking, but nothing springs to mind.Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
But yeah classic Sigma would be so freaking awesome (and he would have his dog! <3)
I agree. Sigma in the first game would be my choice... lightsaber and all.
Arbock I was going to ask the exact same thing about that woman but then I got side tracked and the dark side took over and forgot to bring it up X_X.
Perhaps it's Palutena? She is the goddess of light and she seems to be shimmering =)
Oh and Sigma with Lightsaber would be . . . well I think it would be insanity and just pure awesome haha. Thrown in Chrono and Frog and it'd be the greatest game of all time lol.
Edit: Look at the style of the dress. Matches the picture kinda eh?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 10:08:53 PM
Post by: EasyCure on August 02, 2007, 10:21:34 PM
also may i add, i don't like the idea of having 3rd party characters as antagonists in the single player. I'm not opposed to any being in the game, i just wouldn't want Smash to become a “Nintendo vs ...” affair
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 10:23:50 PM
She's kind of transparent in the picture which makes me think "Help me, Obi Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope." You know, except with Pit.
From the picture of her on wikipedia, I can see the makings of a playable character with a unique moveset. Then again, they could just make it all up like they did with most of the other characters.
And I still say the antagonists should be the fighting polygon team/wire frames. They're cooler and would fit in perfectly with the series.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 02, 2007, 10:29:37 PM
As far as the update is concerned; holy hell it is efing awesome. Looks like multiple enemies on screen, insane moving platforms, and some sort of story is thrown in too.
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Anyway, is anyone else getting the Ganon vibe from the enemy above here?
Will be interesting to see what characters are, I guess, behind the things that happen in Adventure mode... and what it might be like, if at all different, when one plays as Metaknight or something there.
I do not get a Ganon vibe at all, the pig face is too round. To me it looks like something possibly having to do with Pigma from StarFox Command, or maybe it is an invention of The Pig Mask Army from Mother 3, which could fit considering the factory-like background.
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Okay, here is my big question:
Does anyone have any insight on whose arm that might be in the shot? Might be someone obvious that I'm overlooking, but nothing springs to mind.
That is probably Palutena, like Adrock and Mashiro said. Here is a weired little theory that I came up with, which probably will not happen: What if Palutena's face looks like ZSS's face, and Pit helps Samus because she thinks that she is Palutena. It wouldmake sense considering that Metroid and Kid Icarus are sibling games, running on the same engine, produced by the same producer, have the same composer, etc. Like I said though, just my personal theory.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 02, 2007, 10:31:06 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 02, 2007, 10:35:55 PM
Post by: EasyCure on August 02, 2007, 10:37:44 PM
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2007, 01:59:26 AM
I called it... There was a turtle in the update.
This looks to be like it is going to be a fun romp. I hope they had played Odin Sphere. That would rock if the story did the whole timeline thing with different characters like they did. Even though this looks excellent I hope the two Melee modes still come back.
The little trailer thing seemed to indicate that it was common for competitors to be untrophied afterwards so, I'm thing Sandbag Jr from the Phozon is the rule breaker.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 03, 2007, 02:07:44 AM
I was expecting a huge upgrade to the Adventure mode...because Melee just did not do it right, but I wasn't expecting anything this grand. AWESOME, INCREDIBLE...and sky-rockets this game beyond MUST HAVE into if you own a Wii and do not own this game a curse should be cast upon you for all eternity.
Some many great things with this update.
1)Confirmed Adventure mode which is a complete side scrolling adventure mode playable with all characters, but do you get a choice this time around or are levels setup for individual characters? I hope the later so that levels can be designed to take advantage of each characters unique abilities.
2)A newly confirmed character. Yes, we now know Princess Peach is playable. With Ike and Peach our list or characters is already at 15 or 16 with no clones at all. And we still have classic characters to confirm and we still have hidden characters to confirm.
3)A real story to the game complete with CGI cut scenes. This is surprising because Nintendo doesn't usually do this, yet here we see it being used throughout the adventure mode.
4)Bill, just a side note...the animation provided is the end of that initial tease, so I (as along as many others) were right when we argued that Mario saving Kirby's life was not the event threatening the world or even against the world's rules.
5)This game needs to be released ASAP...I can't wait anymore. Nintendo you better give us a special show for the press soon allowing them to play the heck out of this game and give us impressions.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 03, 2007, 02:19:23 AM
And Pap64: that is a brilliant idea for Peach's final Smash. I would love to see a mood attack from her. It could actually be random, and they could have her mood hearts float around her rather quickly and then player pushes A to activate and the one in front of her is her mood.
Her Final Smash would either:
Rage: Burn with a huge pillar of fire
Gloom: Sweep players away with a flood of tears
Calm: Heal herself 100% (Because one of her emotions does that
or...
Joy: Peach turns into a spastic crazy tornado slightly controllable by the player and insta-Smashes characters she touches. (Think Super faster Hammer)
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2007, 02:19:36 AM
Smash will need to be word of mouth to get non-gamers in and people who don't already know about it, yes you two, there, under the rock.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 03, 2007, 02:52:47 AM
1)The original director of the series is back and was able to use the original source code from Hal to help jump start production...this will have immediately helped his team design a new game engine or tweak and perfect the old Engine saving huge amounts of development time.
2)The team that is designing Brawl is huge. I don't remember the exact number but is was like a 100 people wasn't it? That tells me that Sakurai will be able delegate the team into different areas. One could be working solely on the Multi-Player and character balance. One team could have complete focus on Adventure mode. And then a technical team could be working to stabilize online battle modes.
To me I do not waste time assuming no announcement means negative announcement. I think the reason Sakurai and Nintendo did not announce anything about Brawl or have it playable is because Sakurai wanted control of the information release in his blog, and wants continually build hype and excitement for the game.
Just as easily as you all say the online multi-player is not a feature because it has not been mentioned yet, I can assume that not only is online multi-player a feature but so is CO-OP adventure mode online, and special event battles. I have no evidence supporting that, but neither do you the other way.
I say Nintendo needs to be given more faith than we are currently giving them. Nintendo knows that this is one of the largest and most important franchises, and went out of their way to get the original director that had left Nintendo to do the sequel. We know he is dedicated 2 years solely on this game, and has a huge development staff creating the game. We know that Nintendo has spared no expenses and courted several of the top game composers in Japan to work on Brawl's music, creating a collective list of composers never before compiled for a single game.
Have faith in Sakurai to create one last Opus for Nintendo until he moves on to independent game design.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 04:02:34 AM
It really does look like there will be different story paths for each character, which will definitely encourage replayability...And just...WOW! =D
(Yay, finally new Peach is revealed! Seems she's closer to her canon-style than Melee, but it's a nice balance...)
Post by: Strell on August 03, 2007, 04:17:54 AM
In other words, Samus gets warped into Kirby's world/universe (Dreamland?) and has to fight off King Dedede and all those minions. Star Fox pops into Angel World (Angel Land? Can't remember...) and has to shoot down some Egg Plant Wizards. Metaknight ends up in Hyrule.
That would easily, easily make this one of the best games of all time. Basically creating a gigantic 2D side scroller mismatch.
Like all the villians somehow got together and stole their trophies. Maybe it's like each character's soul. So they have to go to those other universes to get their trophy. (Something like all the Disney villians in Kingdom Hearts cooperating into their own Legion of Doom.)
You'd have to fight your way out with each character and reclaim your trophy.
/super wishful need-new-pants thinking
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 04:22:50 AM
Post by: Strell on August 03, 2007, 04:30:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well the pictures already show Fox fighting a Hammer Bro., Pit dodging Bullet Bills, etc, so no worries there! Who knows about boss characters for now...
Melee's adventure mode had something like this. I'm talking about something far more indepth, where the stages initially have to be beaten by a particular character. So instead of running through the 10 stages or whatever Melee did with all the characters, initially you have to, say, sneak through a MGS-like facility with Mario. After you clear it, you can go back with Snake (and all the other characters). Maybe the conditions could change slightly given which character you are using. So there's an individual mission adventure mode for each character.
Basically I'm envisioning something that could very well be its own game independently. Hugely ambitious, and I doubt that would be possible.
At the least I'd love to hear that the engine gets used for something like that. That would be dream come true.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 04:35:27 AM
On a separate note, after looking at the screens again, I'm hoping for Palutena to be a playable character (or at least an Assist Trophy)... =D
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2007, 04:38:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well the pictures already show Fox fighting a Hammer Bro., Pit dodging Bullet Bills, etc, so no worries there! Who knows about boss characters for now...
Melee's adventure mode had something like this. I'm talking about something far more indepth, where the stages initially have to be beaten by a particular character. So instead of running through the 10 stages or whatever Melee did with all the characters, initially you have to, say, sneak through a MGS-like facility with Mario. After you clear it, you can go back with Snake (and all the other characters). Maybe the conditions could change slightly given which character you are using. So there's an individual mission adventure mode for each character.
Basically I'm envisioning something that could very well be its own game independently. Hugely ambitious, and I doubt that would be possible.
At the least I'd love to hear that the engine gets used for something like that. That would be dream come true.
I don't think thats far fetched at all. Especially since they made the comment that this will all be on the one disc. Its probably pretty expansive if he felt obligated to say that. Though I think my Odin Sphere style dream is out the window... That would have been cool too.
Though just think about how much content they where able to fit with Melee. Now they have what 5, 6 times the space and twice the horsepower. Should be interesting.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 04:44:16 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 03, 2007, 04:51:02 AM
Post by: bosshogx on August 03, 2007, 05:01:54 AM
Not to much of a surprise if it's true. Although, that should bring a smile to Shiek players. How will Shiek be implemented? Transform from Zelda or just playable on her own.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 03, 2007, 05:08:07 AM
I'm certain there's a clue here somewhere...
Post by: Strell on August 03, 2007, 05:11:32 AM
When magnified, it looks a lot like Sonic's head.
/fair warning
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 03, 2007, 05:19:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
We need to figure out where these various enemies being fought in the pictures are coming from.
I'm certain there's a clue here somewhere...
Are you talking about how the Fruit F***ers seem to form from the purple smoke things dropped from the Halberd, or are you asking which games the enemies came from?
Personally, the evil sheep looks familar, but I don't think I've seen those blue-faced helmet-wearing sword-wielding tentacle-having things anywhere before.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 05:22:04 AM
Post by: OcarinaLink34 on August 03, 2007, 05:32:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: CericQuote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Well the pictures already show Fox fighting a Hammer Bro., Pit dodging Bullet Bills, etc, so no worries there! Who knows about boss characters for now...
Melee's adventure mode had something like this. I'm talking about something far more indepth, where the stages initially have to be beaten by a particular character. So instead of running through the 10 stages or whatever Melee did with all the characters, initially you have to, say, sneak through a MGS-like facility with Mario. After you clear it, you can go back with Snake (and all the other characters). Maybe the conditions could change slightly given which character you are using. So there's an individual mission adventure mode for each character.
Basically I'm envisioning something that could very well be its own game independently. Hugely ambitious, and I doubt that would be possible.
At the least I'd love to hear that the engine gets used for something like that. That would be dream come true.
I don't think thats far fetched at all. Especially since they made the comment that this will all be on the one disc. Its probably pretty expansive if he felt obligated to say that. Though I think my Odin Sphere style dream is out the window... That would have been cool too.
Though just think about how much content they where able to fit with Melee. Now they have what 5, 6 times the space and twice the horsepower. Should be interesting.
yea well the bosses will probably be a villain from each of the characters history..cause that is wat Sakurai said that the mode was based on each characters history..so hopefully its gonna be like what im thinkin, because he said he wanted to have basically every person a rival...or villain in the game..plus(we dnt have enough)
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 07:16:43 AM
Quote
Let me ask you? What if they axe the feature, what will you do then?
Mashire "I'll be very mad."
I think I made it into another sig! (Thanks Brawl!) Except my name is spelled wrong.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 07:20:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
From GoldenPhoenix's Sig:Quote
Let me ask you? What if they axe the feature, what will you do then?
Mashire "I'll be very mad."
I think I made it into another sig! (Thanks Brawl!) Except my name is spelled wrong.
All lies and you know it!
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 07:35:46 AM
Quote
All lies and you know it!
Anyway back on the topic of Brawl, I wonder if they will have a gigantic combat mode again. I want to have Bowser vs Ganondorf (whom I hope as a final smash of turning into a beast) both grab two mushrooms, grow huge, then pop their final smash and see how much screen space they can take up.
=) ah the simple joys in life.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 07:42:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
All lies and you know it!
Anyway back on the topic of Brawl, I wonder if they will have a gigantic combat mode again. I want to have Bowser vs Ganondorf (whom I hope as a final smash of turning into a beast) both grab two mushrooms, grow huge, then pop their final smash and see how much screen space they can take up.
=) ah the simple joys in life.
Watch the framerate drop to like 10fps then. Oh wait here I am being negative!
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2007, 07:54:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: bosshogx
Joystiq is reporting that Eiji Aonuma revealed Gannondorf and Shiek as playable characters in Brawl. This apparently happened during an interview about Phantom Hourglass. Here's the link
Not to much of a surprise if it's true. Although, that should bring a smile to Shiek players. How will Shiek be implemented? Transform from Zelda or just playable on her own.
It was also reported here, and we've discussed this already. It was just before the big argument of the past few pages.
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2007, 07:57:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Someone posted a screen somewheres where they magnified a small blue box just to the right of ZSS's head.
When magnified, it looks a lot like Sonic's head.
/fair warning
There's also one on the left that COULD look like that. I don't think it does, but I don't really care about Sonic being in that pic because of how gorgeous Samus looks.
Post by: Strell on August 03, 2007, 10:13:27 AM
Someone magnified that and it looks like Sonic's head/profile.
It's probably up at NeoGAF, but I do not visit that wasteland.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 10:23:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Aye. Just to the right of her head, there's tiny screens. You can clearly make out a bright white one, and then two screens above it, there's a darker blue one.
Someone magnified that and it looks like Sonic's head/profile.
It's probably up at NeoGAF, but I do not visit that wasteland.
I zoomed in and I am not quite sure. It looks like a face definately but it looks to have big eyes and 2 ears. Then again it is so pixelated it is tough to tell.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 03, 2007, 10:23:58 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 03, 2007, 10:28:11 AM
Post by: stevey on August 03, 2007, 01:54:38 PM
It kinda looks like sonic
but it also looks just like a mouse (chu chu rocket??)
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 03, 2007, 02:05:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
I dont know,
It kinda looks like sonic
but it also looks just like a mouse (chu chu rocket??)
I think it is Mickey Mouse
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 02:47:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
I dont know,
It kinda looks like sonic
but it also looks just like a mouse (chu chu rocket??)
Lol well I think this confirms not only Sonic but any blue third party character ever.
Nice find!
Post by: Arbok on August 03, 2007, 02:49:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stevey
but it also looks just like a mouse (chu chu rocket??)
An electric mouse?
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 02:51:54 PM
Post by: UERD on August 03, 2007, 03:12:06 PM
DUH.
Post by: Sarail on August 03, 2007, 05:17:56 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 03, 2007, 05:27:45 PM
Post by: Stogi on August 03, 2007, 07:01:16 PM
I wasn't expecting this. I hadn't given a single thought towards what the single player mode might become. To me, it was all about characters, stages, and items. But, just wow.
Still, as cool as this all might be, I hope they spend just as much time thinking about Event matches and Target-Practice/Bag-toss. There's a lot of cool things that I KNOW Sakurai wanted to put into Melee but didn't have enough time and let's not forgot how flexible the Smash Bros. design is. There's definitely a lot of possibilities and certainly a lot of potential.
Even after saying all that, I would rather lose the entire single player experience than be without a Video and Camera mode (with the ability to call up such a mode in-game of course). Smash Bros. has always held the spot for "Most Priceless Video Game Moments" and I want to be able to cherish those moments damn it!
Yes, yes, Melee did have a camera mode, but it's implementation was terrible at best. Sure if you wanted to play a completely different way, you could. You could make some funny ass slide-shows. But what about documentation? That's all I really want.
Post by: EasyCure on August 03, 2007, 07:13:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KashogiStogi
Wow.
I wasn't expecting this. I hadn't given a single thought towards what the single player mode might become. To me, it was all about characters, stages, and items. But, just wow.
Still, as cool as this all might be, I hope they spend just as much time thinking about Event matches and Target-Practice/Bag-toss. There's a lot of cool things that I KNOW Sakurai wanted to put into Melee but didn't have enough time and let's not forgot how flexible the Smash Bros. design is. There's definitely a lot of possibilities and certainly a lot of potential.
Even after saying all that, I would rather lose the entire single player experience than be without a Video and Camera mode (with the ability to call up such a mode in-game of course). Smash Bros. has always held the spot for "Most Priceless Video Game Moments" and I want to be able to cherish those moments damn it!
Yes, yes, Melee did have a camera mode, but it's implementation was terrible at best. Sure if you wanted to play a completely different way, you could. You could make some funny ass slide-shows. But what about documentation? That's all I really want.
Someone get this man on a plane and set up a meeting with Sakurai, and bring maryjane with you and i don't mean the poster on there boards
Post by: nickmitch on August 03, 2007, 07:23:41 PM
Post by: Dasmos on August 03, 2007, 07:41:47 PM
QuoteNo, it looks like blue smudge. Everybody who is looking into things like things is an idiot.
Originally posted by: TVman
This image, to the left of Samus, looks more like Sonic to me.
Post by: Arbok on August 03, 2007, 07:41:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
This image, to the left of Samus, looks more like Sonic to me.
Looks like eyes (upper left, just off screen with the black shadows), a nose, a mouth and strains of hair (far right) to me...
Although it really could be anything. Or, to that extent, and what I'm betting, nothing, to be honest.
Post by: Stogi on August 03, 2007, 07:46:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Dasmos
No, it looks like blue smudge. Everybody who is looking into things like things is an idiot.
Agreed. This is quite possibly THE dumbest suggestion for a rumor. And that's saying alot!
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 09:01:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
And this is exactly the reason why I wish the website updated on weekends... >=|
Yeah . . . I wish they would have like a movie highlight reel of the weeks update just to give us some more awesome movie action.
Post by: Khushrenada on August 03, 2007, 09:42:25 PM
If you look at the screen closely, even with it shrunk down as it is, you can see what looks to be Sonic's spiky hair. Also, there appears to be an eye that looks like it would belong to Sonic. It's got a lot of white and the dot pupil. Or it could just be people trying to see what they want out of the photo. But, if anyone is still confused about Sonic. I believe that's what you should be looking at.
Second, I actually wouldn't complain that much if online wasn't in the game. I am happy with what I have seen so far for the single player. I know Smash_Brother has asked who plays the single player more than the multiplayer. Well, I guess I am the answer. I was looking at my data record and noticed that I've spent two more hours playing single over multiplayer.
Third, now I know the reason for the existance of assist trophies. They've been added to make some use for the character models that are being put into the single player mode. Think about it. We've seen Hammer Bro as an assist trophy and now there's a picture of him fighting Fox McCloud. You think Knuckle Joe is going to be an opponent in the Kirby world? Of course. Don't forget the first assist trophy, Samurai Goroh. If they have bosses for these single player worlds, chances are he's the boss of the F-Zero world. Of course, I'm not sure how Dr. Wright from Sim City would fit in but it's possible he's used in the single player mode also.
Fourth. I for one believe that the reason Nintendo is being tightlipped on the online for brawl is because they are going to go all out on it. I think of the way Sakurai puts in data trackers. There is all the different data results you can see in Melee like KO numbers, time spent playing, stuff like that. Meteos for the DS also had something similiar. So, it's possible Sakurai has a huge online system planned. However, not everything may be able to work for it or be finished in time. So by staying tightlipped, Nintendo doesn't promise something that may not happen. Think about it this way. If Nintendo said, yes, there is online play, there will be 1 vs 1, 4 player melee, etc, well then people would keep asking for details on how this will work or if this will be put in. Will there be leaderboards? Can we make online tournaments?
But by not even saying anything about online, everyone is instead just focused on asking if there will be online. Then, when Nintendo is ready, they announce it's online and what all the online features are and can start discussing and answering what is possible and what isn't. I think it's just a matter of waiting and finalizing. You look at Strikers. People knew it was online but that just raised a whole bunch of questions and confusion about how the online worked. Was there international play or just national play? How do you find opponents? Are there friend codes or not? Just stating it was online was not enough.
Just my thoughts though.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 03, 2007, 10:14:01 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 03, 2007, 10:41:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Sonic was in SSBM if you put in the secret code, right?
Yeah haven't you seen the final picture? Here I took a screenshot.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 04, 2007, 01:47:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
And this is exactly the reason why I wish the website updated on weekends... >=|
Yeah . . . I wish they would have like a movie highlight reel of the weeks update just to give us some more awesome movie action.
I was more, uh, implying my dissatisfaction with silly speculation over a blue smudge in a tiny screenshot... =3
Post by: UERD on August 04, 2007, 02:31:47 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 04, 2007, 03:04:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
This image, to the left of Samus, looks more like Sonic to me.
Looks like eyes (upper left, just off screen with the black shadows), a nose, a mouth and strains of hair (far right) to me...
Although it really could be anything. Or, to that extent, and what I'm betting, nothing, to be honest.
Come on Arbok. It looks more like a Toho character then anything else to me
.Godzilla Confirmed for Brawl! (He's been on a Nintendo Platform and already has a set of fighting moves.)
Mashiro: You should have left out Sonic. Just said the franchise was represented by Tails because Tails looks like he belongs.
The screens are just screens. Background. Does the Fire Emblem stage mean that Catapults are an item? Anyways who wants Sonic in the game anyhow...
Just to add fuel to the speculation I have version of the image blown up to 1920x1080. It looks to me like a security station from a game like Metal Gear. Unfortunately my webspace isn't working so I can't put it up for download just PM or e-mail me if a you want me to send it to ya. It also confirms that those screen shots are 16:9 (Widescreen). I only resized the width to 1920 letting the height adjust to keep aspect. If anyone wants any of those shots as desktop, just send me the size and the shot and I'll redo them for ya.
Post by: Arbok on August 04, 2007, 04:32:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Come on Arbok. It looks more like a Toho character then anything else to me
Godzilla Confirmed for Brawl! (He's been on a Nintendo Platform and already has a set of fighting moves.)
...why must you tease my emotions so?Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Just to add fuel to the speculation I have version of the image blown up to 1920x1080. It looks to me like a security station from a game like Metal Gear.
I agree there, which was also my first thought when you showed the blown up images before stating what it was. Could still be anything, but, to me at least, there appears to be a metal ladder in the image and of the franchises that are represented, Metal Gear seems like the likely candidate.
Post by: Ceric on August 04, 2007, 04:46:16 AM
lol. I just realized the Peaches umbrella was designed like a parachute, hole in the middle. Well maybe its just a dark patch... Everything is so dark in all these shots...
Post by: UERD on August 04, 2007, 06:22:02 AM
Quote
Everything is so dark in all these shots...
Well, they couldn't base the game around 32,000 realistic shades of brown, so they had to take an alternate approach.
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 06:49:03 AM
Quote
Mashiro: You should have left out Sonic. Just said the franchise was represented by Tails because Tails looks like he belongs.
Yeah . . . you're right. I like how Tails fits in with the picture, couldn't find a decent Sonic shot.
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2007, 04:12:23 PM
I still feel like Brawl is going to have a roster of around 40 to 45.
Post by: Arbok on August 04, 2007, 04:18:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rachtman
So, I wonder if we're gonna start getting a new character revealed each week until release? There's 17 weeks to go.. if I add it all up right...
I still feel like Brawl is going to have a roster of around 40 to 45.
Possibly, although I figure, like Melee, more than a few characters won't be shown again. Last time that was all the secret characters (even the roll overs like Jiggly and Luigi), be interesting to see how they handle it this time. Personally, I would prefer it if the secret characters... well, remain secret again until release.
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2007, 04:20:28 PM
Post by: Ceric on August 04, 2007, 04:21:00 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 04, 2007, 04:51:56 PM
Quote
I still feel like Brawl is going to have a roster of around 40 to 45.
If there are less than 40, I'll be kind of disappointed. Assuming all the original characters from Melee return (minus "clones"), a roster of 40+ seems very possible. I'm going to guess 50 completely unique characters,
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2007, 05:15:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
I still feel like Brawl is going to have a roster of around 40 to 45.
If there are less than 40, I'll be kind of disappointed. Assuming all the original characters from Melee return (minus "clones"), a roster of 40+ seems very possible. I'm going to guess 50 completely unique characters,
And Sakurai really does seem like he's going all out on this incarnation of the series. Let's hope for the best!
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 05:26:20 PM
I'd hate for Solid Snake to be the only third party character in the game.
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2007, 06:02:34 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 06:04:57 PM
*WARNING! INCOMING NEW COMER!!*
:: old snake appears::
DAMN IT >.<!!!!
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2007, 06:10:00 PM
Solid Snake
Simon Belmont
Crono
Sora
Mega Man
Sonic
There are plenty of others that I'd love to see make the Brawl roster such as Rayman and Rya Hayabusa.. but those are the six that I'd absolutely pee my pants for to see in the game. Sakurai... please let this happen.
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2007, 06:17:29 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 06:27:14 PM
Crono
Frog
Mega Man X
Zero
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Post by: Sarail on August 04, 2007, 06:28:33 PM
Besides, he fits in too well with Smash's atmosphere.
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2007, 06:35:04 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 06:36:17 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 04, 2007, 06:46:01 PM
Post by: Louieturkey on August 04, 2007, 06:46:59 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 06:49:47 PM
Edit: I too think there will be no Square character in Smash Bros Brawl.
Maybe a Dragon Quest character . . .
Post by: Dasmos on August 04, 2007, 07:12:32 PM
QuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.
Post by: tiamat1990 on August 04, 2007, 08:18:35 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 04, 2007, 08:35:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: tiamat1990
Hey anyone's a likely candidate. Snake would have been the last person I would have guessed to be in the game. But voila there he is. Anyone could be in it for all we know. Speculate and be happy!!
THat is a great point, I think we do forget that how out of blue Snake was.
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 08:44:22 PM
I guess if the character is popular and the developers want it in the game, it has a high possibility of it being in the game.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 04, 2007, 09:21:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.
How is what he said crap? Out of all the third party characters Sora has a much better chance of appearing then many others. He's a well known character from a very popular series and his game Chain of Memories on a Nintendo system sold over 1 million copies which is much better then Snakes Twin Snakes for the Gamecube which couldn't even hit 500,000 worldwide.
If a Square Enix character appears in the game then Sora has the highest chance of being that character because he's the most popular Square Enix character currently that's appeared on a Nintendo system. Unless a Final Fantasy VII or X remake is announced for a Nintendo system before Brawls released then I'd put good money on Sora being the Square Enix character IF a Square Enix character was to appear.
Popularity is one of the most important factors for determining who's going to appear in Brawl, and so it's only natural that the most popular characters from a third party company are going to be the most likely candidates if that company was to have a character included in Brawl.
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:23:18 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 04, 2007, 09:25:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I thoughyt that they said that any third party character to appear would have to have had one previous game at least on Nintendo hardware? Kingdom Hearts 3 hasn't even been announced yet... (*crosses fingers for wiiclusive*)
Just like SSB:B was guaranteed at launch.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 04, 2007, 09:25:21 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 09:25:49 PM
Edit: haha same time post good call.
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:26:54 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 04, 2007, 09:28:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Not on a Nintendo console. My grudge remains unmoved. Yargh.
Kairon is in denial.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 04, 2007, 09:30:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Not on a Nintendo console. My grudge remains unmoved. Yargh.
The Gameboy Advance is just has much of a console as the NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube and Wii are.
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:31:10 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM
Quote
I thoughyt that they said that any third party character to appear would have to have had one previous game at least on Nintendo hardware?
So GBA is hardware and I agree it is a console albeit a hand held one =).
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:34:20 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 09:38:10 PM
Think about it: DQ:Swords is out for the Wii, the next installment of the main story of DQ will be on the DS, the DQ games from yesteryear are being remade for DS and it's a huge possibility that if sales go well, DQ's next installment beyond the DS will be on the Wii.
It'd be a smart way to get people outside of Japan excited about DQ. Much like how Marth and Roy got people interested in Fire Emblem outside of Japan.
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:41:33 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 04, 2007, 09:43:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
As long as Sonic is included, I'm fine. I really can't think of any other characters who are famous enough to qualify.
Mega Man!
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:44:06 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 04, 2007, 09:44:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Okay, her too.
Mega Man is a girl?!?!?!
Post by: Kairon on August 04, 2007, 09:47:25 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 04, 2007, 09:48:22 PM
If Mega Man is included I hope it's X and I hope Zero is with him.
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 01:36:13 AM
Here is an example:
armor on - (flame stags weapon) a forward dash while on fire, similar to the fire fox move
w/o armor- fireball shoots out from buster
i'd rather see him in X - X3 armor. Anything after X3 was trash, especially the second armor from X4 :shutter:
of course a standard x w/o armor is good too
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 05, 2007, 02:05:01 AM
And even if there were, say, 6, like has been mentioned in this thread, I really doubt we'd see multiple characters from the same series.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 02:33:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: insanolord
I believe Sakurai mentioned that there would probably (my emphasis, not his, just pointing out that it's not necessarily set in stone) only be 2 or 3 third-party characters in Brawl, with Snake being one of them.
Well if you wanted to, you could go the exact opposite direction and say that we may only get the one third party character. Just thought I would point out before the game comes out and we only have one or two third party characters available.
Post by: Ceric on August 05, 2007, 02:48:14 AM
I hope they only put in characters that make sense or give them something they don't have in the Nintendo universe and could use.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 05, 2007, 02:50:11 AM
Though as long as Sonic is there (and Tails, Knuckles, and Robotnik as ATs) I don't care what else they do with the third parties.
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2007, 03:08:37 AM
QuoteHow is what he said crap? He doesn't know anything, he's speculating. Speculation is crap. Anybody can speculate. He has no real basis for his speculation apart from his aparent like for the charcater. You can't talk about chance of inclusion when you don't know the criteria for inclusion is. The only criteria that we know of is the character must have apeared on a Nintendo console, which this character fits, but that's it. Thousands of characters fit this criteria.
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuoteHow is what he said crap? Out of all the third party characters Sora has a much better chance of appearing then many others. He's a well known character from a very popular series and his game Chain of Memories on a Nintendo system sold over 1 million copies which is much better then Snakes Twin Snakes for the Gamecube which couldn't even hit 500,000 worldwide.
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.
QuoteYour statement has no merit or basis. You have no idea how Nintendo is going about their inclusion of 3rd party characters. Your logic, although sounds reasonable, is only speculation. Again; anybody can speculate.
Popularity is one of the most important factors for determining who's going to appear in Brawl, and so it's only natural that the most popular characters from a third party company are going to be the most likely candidates if that company was to have a character included in Brawl.
The only thing we know about the inclusion of Snake is that Kojima begged for him to be included, that's it.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 03:11:01 AM
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2007, 03:14:17 AM
QuotePlease tell me where?
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Are you not speculating too, Dasmos?
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 03:34:10 AM
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 05, 2007, 03:36:26 AM
Post by: Sarail on August 05, 2007, 03:45:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.
Awww, I'm sorry. Negativity must run rampant in your family. :P
I didn't say this was fact. I stated my opinion that I believe Sora is highly likely to make it into Brawl. And that's all. He has just as good of a chance as Solid Snake does -- and Snake doesn't even mesh well with the Smash universe.
Don't open your mouth like that... makes you sound dumb.
Post by: Darkheart on August 05, 2007, 03:53:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteHow is what he said crap? He doesn't know anything, he's speculating. Speculation is crap. Anybody can speculate. He has no real basis for his speculation apart from his aparent like for the charcater. You can't talk about chance of inclusion when you don't know the criteria for inclusion is. The only criteria that we know of is the character must have apeared on a Nintendo console, which this character fits, but that's it. Thousands of characters fit this criteria.
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuoteHow is what he said crap? Out of all the third party characters Sora has a much better chance of appearing then many others. He's a well known character from a very popular series and his game Chain of Memories on a Nintendo system sold over 1 million copies which is much better then Snakes Twin Snakes for the Gamecube which couldn't even hit 500,000 worldwide.
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.QuoteYour statement has no merit or basis. You have no idea how Nintendo is going about their inclusion of 3rd party characters. Your logic, although sounds reasonable, is only speculation. Again; anybody can speculate.
Popularity is one of the most important factors for determining who's going to appear in Brawl, and so it's only natural that the most popular characters from a third party company are going to be the most likely candidates if that company was to have a character included in Brawl.
The only thing we know about the inclusion of Snake is that Kojima begged for him to be included, that's it.
Well Sora was in Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories. The next game in the Kingdom Hearts Series will be a spin off game again starring Roxas and Mickey slated for either the Ds or PSP Nomura hasnt decided it yet but will announce the game at TGS. So if that goes through thats 2 Kingdom Hearts games on a Nintendo Console. Plus with the current failure of a PS3 and the success rate of the Wii, the series just might make a leap to another console. If Nintendo knows that they are getting these 2 games in advance or even one of them then Sora or any Kingdom Hearts original character is welcome.
"Further details of the next Kingdom Hearts game have appeared in a recent interview with Tetsuya Nomura. It's been confirmed that the new game, a sidestory, will likely feature on a handheld platform and explore the KH2FM+ secret movie.."
http://www.kh2.co.uk/?page=NI/KH2FMU
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2007, 03:56:41 AM
QuoteUnless they can prove otherwise what they were speculating was baseless and full of crap. I never said they were wrong.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
That their speculation is baseless, or crap, or wrong.
QuoteIf you are stating opinion it usually goes along the lines of "I think Sora is a highly likely candidate" or "I believe Sora is a highly likely candidate", not "Sora is a higly likely candidate.
Originally posted by: RachtmanQuote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteSays who? You? I hate the fact that people on the Internet spout crap as fact. You have no idea what Nintendo plans on doing with 3rd party characters and the fact that you like a character does not make them a likely candidate.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Sora is a very highly likely candidate to be included in Brawl.
Awww, I'm sorry. Negativity must run rampant in your family. :P
I didn't say this was fact. I stated my opinion that I believe Sora is highly likely to make it into Brawl. And that's all.
It's like saying "God doesn't exist" as opposed to "I think God doesn't exist". You need to express your opinion in a way that isn't confusing.
QuoteI never argued this.
He has just as good of a chance as Solid Snake does
QuoteStatiing your opinion as fact again?
and Snake doesn't even mesh well with the Smash universe.
QuoteLOL
Don't open your mouth like that... makes you sound dumb.
Post by: Sarail on August 05, 2007, 04:06:02 AM
Ya know what, no. It is very likely that Sora could appear in Smash. That's fact. Keyword there for ya, bub, is of course could.
Aside from all that, speculating about games that we all love is what gets us all excited about games in the first place. That's why we all choose to come onto these message boards and talk about it.
People such as yourself ruin the fun that we have talking about it.
Post by: Ceric on August 05, 2007, 04:09:38 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 04:14:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteUnless they can prove otherwise what they were speculating was baseless and full of crap. I never said they were wrong.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
That their speculation is baseless, or crap, or wrong.
Why is the onus on Rachtman to prove his speculation, and not your own? The only thing that we have to go on is that Sakurai said that in order for a third party character to be considered, they (the third party character) would have to have a game on a Nintendo system, which Sora does. Those two facts gives more credence to the speculative arguments of those who thinks that Sora is in then those who do not.
Personally, I do not think that Sora has a snowball's chance in Hell of being in SSBB, and I would not like him to be in anyway, I did not care much for KH.
I also feel bad about getting into this argument anyway, seeing as how I somehow opened the flood gates on the Dasmos Hate Club, which I am sorry about. I was just trying to jab you a little with no malicious intent.
Edit: I was originally using myself in the first sentence, but then it occurred to me that since I was not the original person bringing up Sora in Brawl, that it may be confusing.
Post by: Dasmos on August 05, 2007, 04:28:38 AM
QuoteOf course Sora could be included. I just don't know where you're pulling the "very likely" from. Actually I have a pretty good idea.
Originally posted by: Rachtman
Ya know what, no. It is very likely that Sora could appear in Smash. That's fact. Keyword there for ya, bub, is of course could.
QuoteI'm not the one spouting ridiculous claims, that's why. If you claim you were abducted by aliens, you have to have some evidence to back up your claim.
Originally posted by: anubis6789Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteUnless they can prove otherwise what they were speculating was baseless and full of crap. I never said they were wrong.
Originally posted by: anubis6789
That their speculation is baseless, or crap, or wrong.
Why is the onus on me to prove to prove my speculation, and not your own?
QuoteDitto.
Personally, I do not think that Sora has a snowball's chance in Hell of being in SSBB, and I would not like him to be in anyway, I did not care much for KH.
Quotelol, no worries.
I also feel bad about getting into this argument anyway, seeing as how I somehow opened the flood gates on the Dasmos Hate Club, which I am sorry about. I was just trying to jab you a little with no malicious intent.
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 04:31:56 AM
Quote
i'd rather see him in X - X3 armor. Anything after X3 was trash, especially the second armor from X4 :shutter:
of course a standard x w/o armor is good too
Yeah my favorite armor designs came from those games. Capcom really made the series crap after X3, aside from the inclusion of Zero being a fully playable character,
Post by: Louieturkey on August 05, 2007, 04:58:37 AM
Mega Man 1-7
Mega Man Soccer
Mega Man X 1-3
Mega Man GB 1-5
Mega Man Battle Network 1-6 (5 & 6 were each 2 or 3 games as well)
Mega Man (that funky BN spinoff on the GC)
Mega Man Collection
Mega Man 64
I'm probably missing some even now as I didn't go to Wikipedia to find this out. This was off the top of my head.
So I'm hoping for Mega Man. Here's hoping it's either the original and he can use Rush for different attacks, or X as he was just cool.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 05:00:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
lol. This is the only place I go to where its not uncommon to have heated debate because of quirks in the English language being dissected.
You have never been to the Gamefaqs SSBB board (or all boards for that matter) have you?
It is like here but with 400 units of pure stupid.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 05, 2007, 05:10:55 AM
This idea now gets me giddy and now I have even higher hopes for MM to be in the game.
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 05:48:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Mega Man definitely has the most chance for a third party character next to Sonic. In fact, MM has appeared in A LOT more games on Nintendo consoles than Sonic anyways.
Mega Man 1-7
Mega Man Soccer
Mega Man X 1-3
Mega Man GB 1-5
Mega Man Battle Network 1-6 (5 & 6 were each 2 or 3 games as well)
Mega Man (that funky BN spinoff on the GC)
Mega Man Collection
Mega Man 64
I'm probably missing some even now as I didn't go to Wikipedia to find this out. This was off the top of my head.
So I'm hoping for Mega Man. Here's hoping it's either the original and he can use Rush for different attacks, or X as he was just cool.
poor Mega Man X: Command Mission lol.
yeah with the "had to of been on a nintendo platform" criteria, megaman has been in more games that appeared on their systems more than anyone. It would be like a slap in the face to capcom to NOT have him in the game at this point. As a blue bomber fan since the original game i would absolutely be crushed if he didnt make it into the game knowing he could be, again based on the criteria (that we know about). Megaman has been in more games on nintendo than Snake has so i dont see why he shouldnt be included. Im not sure about Sonic but i feel like megaman has been in more nintendo games than he has too, so if sonic gets in and megaman doesnt.... wow.. i'll just be crushed.
and yes, the stealing of powerups has been discussed many many times in here. everytime we bring up another character we'd like to see we recycle our ideas aallll over again. the only exception is when we know more details about the game, like smash balls, which opens new ideas, like the one i mentioned in a previous post.
if they do have megaman, the original version, i think a cool final smash would be if he used his rush power adaptor from mm6 or 7 (prefferably the flying one*) to fly around blasting charged shots or those fist missiles. Most likely it'll be something lame like having auto, beat, rush, and eddie all attacking with him at once (ala mm8)
I would much rather prefer the X incarnation though since we already have a fighting game with original Megaman, but if not i hope they can be unique with him and not use the same moves found in marvel vs capcom (tengu glade, mega ball, leaf sheild..uhm... thats all i remember).
and yes, no megaman BN or those other ds incarnations. Especially if they include zero (playable or assist) i want the original version over those Zero and other versions.
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 05:52:58 AM
Quote
and yes, no megaman BN or those other ds incarnations. Especially if they include zero (playable or assist) i want the original version over those Zero and other versions.
Couldn't agree more.
Zero's "redesign" for the DS is one of the worst character design changes I've seen in Video Game history. I freaking hate the Zero on DS.
If there is one thing the PSX versions of MMX got right, it was Zero's design.
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 05:59:58 AM
dont get me wrong, i actually found the mmZ games fun and pretty challenging when i finally got a ds (i know i know, their gba games but i skipped the gba so when i got a ds i had to backtrack on games)
it was bad enough that people thought he was a SHE since the first game on SNES (not psx mashiro, its not like they changed his design from snes to psx, so your comment just confused me). the mmZ incarnation looks too feminine.. i mean c'mon he has accentuated hips!! wtf? they ruined X too by making him look kinda fat, not Copy x, he was pretty badass, but the 'fairy' x.. disgraceful
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 06:49:36 AM
Quote
it was bad enough that people thought he was a SHE since the first game on SNES (not psx mashiro, its not like they changed his design from snes to psx, so your comment just confused me).
I think two thoughts are colliding there lol.
From a Sprite / 2D stand point, Zero always looked better (IMHO) on the PSX. On the SNES Zero always kinda . . . I dunno they never quite got the sprites right. Overall Zero's final look, animations, attacks, etc, all came together really well on the Playstation 2D versions. While the overall design concepts might not have changed much from SNES to PSX they certainly executed it better on the PSX.
Where as with X, they absolutely destroyed his model and I always preferred his look on the SNES MMX games.
Post by: nickmitch on August 05, 2007, 08:12:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Just thought of this while reading through posts. What if Mega Man (whatever version ends up in the game if he gets in), whenever he smashes someone out actually acquires a talent from that character. He smashes Mario, he gets fireballs. He smashes Jigglypuff, he learns to sing. He smashes Link, he gets bombs or arrows. He smashes Ike, he gets an awesome sword.
This idea now gets me giddy and now I have even higher hopes for MM to be in the game.
Having to kill someone to get their powers would suck strategy wise. It'd be easier if you could just grab a character and gain their powers.
Post by: Sarail on August 05, 2007, 09:02:04 AM
Also, here's a little something that's been a work in progress since the Dojo site went live. I'm constantly updating it, so keep checking up anytime a new character is introduced. Just wanted to show this to you guys... since I love posting in his thread with everyone. Great company!
Click here for the full sized version.
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 05, 2007, 11:15:32 AM
Also, I thought of something that there is next to no chance of actually happening but would be so awesome in Brawl. Kuribo Goomba should be an assist trophy, and if you footstool jump on him you can get in Kuribo's shoe and do a lot of damage jumping on opponents but you lose it when you get hit. That would be the greatest thing ever in the eyes of my SMB3 fanboy self. Another SMB3 Brawl idea: Mushroom Kingdom III stage, like MKII in Melee, with SMB3 graphical style and enemies that pop up. Also, the 7 Koopa Kids from SMB3 and SMW need to be Assist Trophies.
That is all.
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 11:46:23 AM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 05, 2007, 03:07:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DasmosQuoteNo, it looks like blue smudge. Everybody who is looking into things like things is an idiot.
Originally posted by: TVman
This image, to the left of Samus, looks more like Sonic to me.
QFT. Remember those stupid clouds that everyone was claiming they saw characters in?
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 05, 2007, 04:44:49 PM
I mean, they revealed her in the last update, so it makes sense...
Post by: Tanookisuit on August 05, 2007, 04:59:12 PM
And Kuribo's shoe should just be an item, not an assist trophy.
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 05:21:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
it was bad enough that people thought he was a SHE since the first game on SNES (not psx mashiro, its not like they changed his design from snes to psx, so your comment just confused me).
I think two thoughts are colliding there lol.
From a Sprite / 2D stand point, Zero always looked better (IMHO) on the PSX. On the SNES Zero always kinda . . . I dunno they never quite got the sprites right. Overall Zero's final look, animations, attacks, etc, all came together really well on the Playstation 2D versions. While the overall design concepts might not have changed much from SNES to PSX they certainly executed it better on the PSX.
Where as with X, they absolutely destroyed his model and I always preferred his look on the SNES MMX games.
ah misunderstanding, i see where you're coming from now. my apologies, i did run my thoughts together but i'm too lazy to edit them or explain it here. i will say this though:
i personally didn't like the way they did zero in the psx games, but i think that has to do with the fact that MMX3 was like my dream game when i first read about it in the nintendo power at the toys r us. I was so young then, i only ever got games for xmas or birthdays and other than that my only means of getting games was to save up my allowance. By the time i saved up the money ($70!!!) for it the store in the mall that is now a game stop didn't have it. I checked the toys r us that was closer to home and they didn't have it either. We were kinda poor back then and didn't have a car so we could only go back to check every other weekend by bus or taxi. Eventually i read an article saying that the cart was one of the last games to use a certain chip and was becoming a rare find.
For years i would take the bus to funcoland to track a copy down but never had any luck. these were the days before the internet for me so that place was my best shot. God the prices for used games were sick back then..
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 05, 2007, 05:30:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
I agree, tomorrow will be Peach.
And Kuribo's shoe should just be an item, not an assist trophy.
The way I described it it could be both. You kill the assist trophy and then can use the item. It would be weird if the shoe just spawned, that's not how it worked in the game.
Slightly off topic: If any of the following appear in Super Mario Galaxy it is immediately in the discussion for best game ever: Kuribo's shoe, Tanooki/Frog/Hammer suit, or the 7 Koopa Kids.
Back on topic: I also agree that Peach is most likely tody's update, but I'd love to be surprised with another awesome new thing like on Friday.
Post by: EasyCure on August 05, 2007, 05:35:33 PM
anyway eventually i stopped looking. My stepfather got me a saturn which i rarely played until i sax they had X4 which was one of only two games i bought for it (the other was mm8). I was so exited to play it but it was kind of a let down..
Part of it was the awkwardness of the saturns controller which i wasn't used to but also Zero was pretty disappointing. For years i had the legendary images of him blasting Viles war armor apart, blowing away the fake zero with one shot... But most memorably... Having to fight him and seeing his aggressive power. The was he'd punch the ground and tear it to pieces and that blaster + saber combo he did... When i was a kid that made my jaw drop.
but in x4 he felt gimped and i just couldn't got over it. it was cool that the saber combat have his game a different feel, which i later appreciated, but after spending so long yearning for the zero in X3 that i knew could blast and hack his way through enemies i couldn't help but be let down. That's why the snes versions are better in my eyes.
(sorry for double posting, typing on the wii has a character limit)
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 06:11:23 PM
X2's X vs Zero was one of my favorite classic fights and I loved the attacks just like you. *pllshhh plsshhh PLSSSHHH* *sword attack* lol so awesome.
and of course X1 having his sacrificial moment was very touching, as well as his introduction. I remember not understanding what was going on when I first turned on X1, because I had never played a Mega Man game with an intro stage (I remember thinking it had a save file on it and I somehow was starting at the end of the game). I played through the classic highway only to come up against the unstoppable Vile.
Zero coming in to save the day made it all the more sweet and first the first time in an Mega Man game I really felt the bond between two characters. I also loved how X was unsure of himself but Zero was confident that X would one day be stronger than him. Truly made his sacrifice and dying words all the more sentimental.
So yeah SNES Zero was super awesome =)
Post by: Mashiro on August 05, 2007, 08:07:24 PM
The Smoke Ball!
Looks like a fun new item =)
Post by: nickmitch on August 05, 2007, 08:24:04 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 05, 2007, 08:24:28 PM
Speaking of the actual update, depending on how much the smoke actually obscures the view of the battlefield, it may be one very strategic item.
Post by: Kairon on August 05, 2007, 08:25:39 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 05, 2007, 10:45:28 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 05, 2007, 11:43:36 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 06, 2007, 02:22:02 AM
This update is really cool...and already you can see the huge potential power of the weapon.
I personally would love to guard an edge with the Smoke ball and Bumper combo.
These small updates are exciting because you see glimpses of ideas they could have for the events mode. Like now they could have you battle in a thick Fog to defeat your opponent.
Post by: Mikintosh on August 06, 2007, 06:26:22 AM
Though this looks a bit more useful, as you can throw it towards your opponents. Still, I can imagine this getting switched off when I play if it's as distracting as it sounds.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 06, 2007, 09:55:39 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 10:08:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Tonight's update: Items can't be turned off ever! Uh oh, what now?
That would make me both laugh, for the sheer amount of outrage amongst the tourney players this would cause, and cry, for the sheer amount of outrage amongst the tourney players this would cause.
Seriously though, I think that the next update will probably be music, because we are well overdue for one of them, although I feel there is a small chance for either a Final Smash or a "How to Play" update, and then there is always the possibility of the looming Metaknight, and now Peach, update.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 06, 2007, 10:26:17 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 06, 2007, 10:29:01 AM
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 10:32:31 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 10:36:18 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 06, 2007, 10:37:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Tonight's update: Items can't be turned off ever! Uh oh, what now?
SAKURAAAAAAIIIIIII!
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 10:40:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Let's not forget Snake's profile. That's still not up.
Well, Metaknight has been in many screen shots since the Dojo's relaunch, while the same cannot be said for Snake. To me this says that Metaknight is a starter, while Snake is hidden, which means that Snake will not be shown till near or after the launch.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 06, 2007, 11:00:06 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 06, 2007, 11:18:49 AM
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 11:31:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Tonight's update: Items can't be turned off ever! Uh oh, what now?
SAKURAAAAAAIIIIIII!
Best use of Goku EVER.
Post by: LuigiHann on August 06, 2007, 01:43:26 PM
Post by: Caliban on August 06, 2007, 02:06:02 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 02:07:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
If there was to be an item of the Metal Gear series to be used in Brawl, of my pick of course, it would be his new camouflage suit shown in MGS4...maybe that wouldn't work too well since there already is an invisibility item in Melee (I think, unless memory betrayed me), darn.
Yes there is, I forgot all about it until I played the game again yesterday.
Post by: Tanookisuit on August 06, 2007, 02:12:22 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 06, 2007, 02:13:14 PM
Post by: EasyCure on August 06, 2007, 02:13:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Where there's smoke bombs, there's ninjas.
oh god i thought you said “Three Ninjas” as in those horrible movies.
and in case someone didn't say this (but i doubt i'm the first) Grey Fox confirmed?!? as snakes clone
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 02:22:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCureQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Where there's smoke bombs, there's ninjas.
oh god i thought you said “Three Ninjas” as in those horrible movies.
and in case someone didn't say this (but i doubt i'm the first) Grey Fox confirmed?!? as snakes clone
CONFIRMED: Smoke bombs in both Smash Brothers Brawl and Metroid Prime 3. Here is my source, who wishes to be anomynous.
Quote
Nobody has anything to say about smoke balls?
Is this really the first time i get to be first talking about an update??
oh my lucky stars! this is such an honor.. I... I can't blow this so i have to come us with something good to say..uhm...
they're neat!
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 02:24:40 PM
Post by: EasyCure on August 06, 2007, 02:41:55 PM
Post by: Louieturkey on August 06, 2007, 06:12:44 PM
Of course, this has probably been talked about before. Oh well, I like the idea anyways.
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 06:22:46 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2007, 06:39:39 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 06:42:23 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 07:07:45 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 06, 2007, 07:24:50 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 07:27:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I'm guessing tonights update is going to be either a character related update or a music update. That should get people more excited then item ones do.
Actually I find the items far more exciting then anything else because it actually says what you can do with them.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 06, 2007, 07:50:32 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on August 06, 2007, 07:53:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Louieturkey
Has anyone talked about the idea of changing the different colors of the characters to different costumes. Such as instead of having Mario and Dr. Mario, you choose Mario and then choose the costume you want, such as basic plumber, Dr. Mario, Strikers Mario, Bee Mario, etc. I think it'd be a lot more fun to have different costumes than different colors. That way, you can have the clones without them seeming like clones.
Of course, this has probably been talked about before. Oh well, I like the idea anyways.
That's been my opinion since Melee. Most modern 3D fighters have unlockable costumes for each character, and I think a history-rich game like Smash Bros should be no exception. I also agree that characters like Dr Mario and Young Link waste slots on the character select screen, when they should just be alternate skins for existing characters. I really hope they'll do that for Brawl, but we'll see.
On the other hand, it might be difficult to work in detailed alternate costumes in the face of some of the body-altering final smashes, but we'll see. Melee took a step toward it with Peach's Daisy outfit and the hats for the Pokemon, so hopefully they can go a bit further in Brawl.
I just hope Wario has the option to wear his traditional outfit, for one.
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 07:59:43 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 06, 2007, 08:00:12 PM
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 08:02:28 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:03:36 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:05:17 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 08:06:41 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, is this the first "normal" special move update?
Post by: Arbok on August 06, 2007, 08:07:14 PM
Wow. Well, Ike is clearly not Marth/Roy with a new character model, if there was still any doubt. I'm really amazed how high he jumps with Aether. Looks to be a dangerous recovery move, if he falls down as quick as it seems, but it's very unique from everyone else.
Also, Eruption looks pretty neat.
EDIT: Oh, also, I liked this line:
Quote
He’s not really invincible—he still takes damage. But he won’t flinch in the slightest.
Sounds like someone took Smash_Brothers idea on how to balance the bulker characters.
Also, if it's true that he can't be flinched while doing Aether, it makes it pretty hard to edge guard against... but, again, the move looks pretty risky depending on how fast he plummets on the downward strike.
Post by: Mashiro on August 06, 2007, 08:08:47 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:09:54 PM
Post by: Adrock on August 06, 2007, 08:10:30 PM
Maybe we'll see Marth again after all.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 06, 2007, 08:11:07 PM
Plus I like how Sakurai says Heavyweight characters will have moves where they wont flinch if hit. It looks like Smash_Brothers dream of a much improved Bowser will be coming true.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I was right, it was a character related update tonight. Well it looks like Ike is the replacement for Roy with his standard B being pretty much the same, but his Up B is different and looks sweet.
Plus I like how Sakurai says Heavyweight characters will have moves where they wont flinch if hit. It looks like Smash_Brothers dream of a much improved Bowser will be coming true.
Actually that is my dream too, no more neutered Bowser.
Post by: Arbok on August 06, 2007, 08:15:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Well it looks like Ike is the replacement for Roy with his standard B being pretty much the same, but his Up B is different and looks sweet.
I don't know about that.
Roy's "charged-explosive-sword-o-doom" had a huge explosion... but actually not a lot of range. Ike shoving his sword into the ground already looks to have much better range than that.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 08:16:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I was right, it was a character related update tonight. Well it looks like Ike is the replacement for Roy with his standard B being pretty much the same, but his Up B is different and looks sweet.
Eruption looks more to like a close range chargeable PK Fire. If you look close enough you can see that Ike has plunged his sword into the ground, thus it probably is not a slashing attack.
I am happy though that Ike is not going to use the Marth/Roy moveset because that means more unique characters, and it makes the chance of Marth returning go back up.
EDIT: Sorry Arbok, did not see your post while I was writing mine.
Post by: Arbok on August 06, 2007, 08:20:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Eruption looks more to like a close range chargeable PK Fire. If you look close enough you can see that Ike has plunged his sword into the ground, thus it probably is not a slashing attack.
That was my impression as well, something akin to the PK Fire or Bowser's flame breath in terms of range. I also can't help but wonder how "charged up" the attack is that we are seeing...
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
EDIT: Sorry Arbok, did not see your post while I was writing mine.
That's okay. We are in the 30 minute "happy hour" period when everyone is rushing on to comment on the update, so we are going to get a lot of comments stated near back-to-back, at which point it's easy to have a few posts logged in while you are writing your own.
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 08:21:27 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:25:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Eruption looks more to like a close range chargeable PK Fire. If you look close enough you can see that Ike has plunged his sword into the ground, thus it probably is not a slashing attack.
That was my impression as well, something akin to the PK Fire or Bowser's flame breath in terms of range. I also can't help but wonder how "charged up" the attack is that we are seeing...Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
EDIT: Sorry Arbok, did not see your post while I was writing mine.
That's more okay. We are in the 30 minute "happy hour" period whenever is rushing on to comment on the update, so we are going to get a lot of comments stated near back-to-back, at which point it's easy to have a few posts logged in while you are writing your own.
Didn't do too much rushing because I beat you all to it!
Post by: Arbok on August 06, 2007, 08:25:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
While Ike having an original move set is nice, I just hope the Roy/Marth set isn't lost. This could be an indicator of either one's return or an additional FE character with their moveset.
I don't see why it would be. Ike being original would certainly indicate that they are trying to differentiate the character from the previous "Fire Emblem play style". Heck, perhaps Ike is a "heavier" character, ala Link, which would separate him even more from Marth or Roy, and while it's not locked that either of those will return... I do feel confident that at least someone will carry the same play style.
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Didn't do too much rushing because I beat you all to it!
Well, given the number of typos I made in that quoted reply, I'd say I'm rushing enough...
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 08:30:21 PM
Just a note, but Ike only has super-armor (the no-flinch-still-can-be-damaged mode, not an actual suit of armor, if I was confusing anybody) on while the sword is not on him, and also did any one else notice that aether has little to no lateral movement?
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2007, 08:40:03 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 06, 2007, 08:41:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ShyGuy
Who is this "Ike" character? Is that short for Eisenhower?
He is the brother of Captain Pike the first captain of the Enterprise before Kirk.
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2007, 08:48:08 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 08:49:39 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 06, 2007, 09:04:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
You fish way too much.
PRO666 WILL PAY FOR THIS LEGACY
Post by: nickmitch on August 06, 2007, 09:46:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: TVman
While Ike having an original move set is nice, I just hope the Roy/Marth set isn't lost. This could be an indicator of either one's return or an additional FE character with their moveset.
I don't see why it would be. Ike being original would certainly indicate that they are trying to differentiate the character from the previous "Fire Emblem play style". Heck, perhaps Ike is a "heavier" character, ala Link, which would separate him even more from Marth or Roy, and while it's not locked that either of those will return... I do feel confident that at least someone will carry the same play style.
Well, given the popularity of that move set, I would think that it would return in some form. I mean, Marth was a pretty top-tier character. So, if not him, then someone should "carry the torch," so to speak.
Post by: SixthAngel on August 06, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 11:22:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: SixthAngel
I can see them getting rid of the move set entirely in order to use more moves taken directly from the Fire Emblem series like Aether instead of the generic sword attacks that Marth had. I never played as him because his moves were just boring.
Supposedly, from what I have heard, and I have not verified this myself, Roy used some of his moves from Smash Bros. in Fire Emblem: Sword of Seals. Assuming that to be true, that would mean that they are more Roy's moves then Marth's, and, more importantly, it also means that the moves are in a Fire Emblem game, thus making them legitimate moves for SSB even though they may not be used by the character that uses them in a game. All of this is assuming Marth will return and Roy's fate as questionable, and that Roy does in fact use some of his SSBM moves in his game, which I will say again, I have not verified.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 06, 2007, 11:41:40 PM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 06, 2007, 11:51:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Marth's moves were from the Fire Emblem series. His move set was a combination of attacks different sword users used in all the different Fire Emblem games. Just because he didn't have anything big and flashy like Aether doesn't make him any less true to his series then Ike is.
Oh okay, that makes a lot more sense than what I read about Roy using some of his SSB moves in his game, although I could of misinterpreted what I was reading.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 07, 2007, 02:01:04 AM
This is interesting, because it proves that Ike is his own man in Brawl and is not a hybrid of Marth and Roy...though, he still has a charge Fire Sword Strike, and he even though his Up Sword attack is different it is in the same vein as Marth and Roy's.
I hope he has some sort of counter sword attack like the other two had.
Though the most important aspect to this post is the hinting at how they balanced Heavy characters. Ike's Aether attack leaves him momentarily "unflinchable" which means once he starts that attack it will finish no matter what. And all Heavy Characters have attacks like this. So a little Speedster may be able to pop Bowser for a few quick damage hits, but Bowser will be able to pull off his stronger attack and punish them severally for that damage. Very nice to know.
Post by: Caterkiller on August 07, 2007, 03:40:51 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 07, 2007, 04:25:06 AM
1. Being unflichable for the first part of the attack makes it so your prey cannot escape.
2. Your prey will be stun for the followup already so you no longer need to protect from that. Leaving it up to another character to interrupt the finishing of the move.
He could be unmovable through the whole thing but I can't believe that with the air element of it.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 07, 2007, 05:15:38 AM
As you said the person you attack should be stunned, and it looks like it can be an attack that hits 3 times. On the ground, top arc of the jump, and the final slam into the ground.
Aether could be a devestating attack.
Post by: Ceric on August 07, 2007, 05:31:16 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 07, 2007, 05:47:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Haha, I beat the so called hardcore Smash Brothers fans when it came to posting what the update was!
Hey, your up with the rest of us in the middle of the night, to me that makes you just as much a "hardcore Smash Bros. fan".
Sorry that I am commenting on post so old, but I just felt that it needed a reply when I reread it after I woke up.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 07, 2007, 06:17:30 AM
Ike being a heavy character for example, it was hinted at in his character profile, but now we know for certain, and it is interesting to me, because I would have assumed Gannondorf would have been the heavy sword based fighter in the game.
I am really curious how Gannondorf turns out. I hope he is revealed soon and we can see his changes.
Post by: Arbok on August 07, 2007, 06:44:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
...and he even though his Up Sword attack is different it is in the same vein as Marth and Roy's.
I see it being much, much different given the rush downward as part of the attack.... meaning it would be completely suicidal to use the move to recover unless you are close enough to the edge to grab it already, unlike Marth or Roy.
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Though the most important aspect to this post is the hinting at how they balanced Heavy characters. Ike's Aether attack leaves him momentarily "unflinchable" which means once he starts that attack it will finish no matter what. And all Heavy Characters have attacks like this. So a little Speedster may be able to pop Bowser for a few quick damage hits, but Bowser will be able to pull off his stronger attack and punish them severally for that damage. Very nice to know.
I'm interested to see how that plays out as well. If some "longer duration" moves are "unflinchable", I wonder if it would be viable to use them, say, against a Bomb-omb if you knew it was unavoidable. You would still take a huge helping of damage, but at least you wouldn't be sent flying.
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I am really curious how Gannondorf turns out. I hope he is revealed soon and we can see his changes.
I'm betting Ganondorf is a secret character, so I don't expect to see him on the site until after release.
Post by: Adrock on August 07, 2007, 07:04:09 AM
In any case, it'd be cool if, when using Aether as a recovery move, the sword could catch the side of the stage, like the hookshot and grapple beam, allowing Ike to jump back up.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 07, 2007, 07:47:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-SpangI am really curious how Gannondorf turns out. I hope he is revealed soon and we can see his changes.
Well, going with my different costume ideas, I'm hoping Gannondorf has a Wind Waker costume along with his Ocarina look. I thought he looked cool with the cel shading.
And with Ike, I could see them making his separate costumes be other Fire Emblem heroes. That would really knock my socks off.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 07, 2007, 09:05:57 AM
Personally, I think this would be the best way to deal with the "clone" characters...
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 07, 2007, 09:42:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: Luigi DudeQuote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Tonight's update: Items can't be turned off ever! Uh oh, what now?
SAKURAAAAAAIIIIIII!
Best use of Goku EVER.
I don't think you quite see what he did there.
Post by: Mashiro on August 07, 2007, 02:51:46 PM
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 07, 2007, 06:14:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I guess I didn't? lol.
If you really want to know, click here.
WARNING, VERY OFFENSIVE AND NOT SAFE FOR WORK
I REPEAT VERY OFFENSIVE AND NOT SAFE FOR WORK!
Post by: Mashiro on August 07, 2007, 07:07:17 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 07, 2007, 08:03:01 PM
Post by: LuigiHann on August 07, 2007, 08:07:25 PM
....Still hoping for a Kirby Polka.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 07, 2007, 08:08:54 PM
Very bouncy and cheery, although a tad too happy for the character and theme.
Post by: nickmitch on August 07, 2007, 08:10:39 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 07, 2007, 08:13:21 PM
Sounds old school but new just the same. I agree with ya pap64 very bouncy and cheery. Good stuff good stuff.
Post by: Kairon on August 07, 2007, 08:18:45 PM
Recommended for EVERYBODY.
Post by: Sarail on August 07, 2007, 08:21:38 PM
Post by: ShyGuy on August 07, 2007, 08:32:24 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 07, 2007, 08:48:26 PM
Post by: Smoke39 on August 07, 2007, 08:51:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Very bouncy and cheery, although a tad too happy for the character and theme.
Those tunes weren't exactly brooding in Kid Icarus. Besides, I'd prefer to avoid having to fight to boring music like in Kraid's stage in Melee.
Post by: LuigiHann on August 07, 2007, 08:58:44 PM
Post by: Strell on August 07, 2007, 09:14:09 PM
/continues to keep listening
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 07, 2007, 09:15:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHann
Yeah, if you go back and listen to the original Kid Icarus songs, they're just as bouncy. The new version matches the tone well.
Also if you look at the offical artwork that was in the manual for the original game, it shows that the series as a whole has always had a very happy and cheerful setting to it as well.
Post by: Strell on August 07, 2007, 09:37:40 PM
Also, boobies.
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 07, 2007, 09:50:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Also, boobies.
That'll be tomorrows Assist Trophy update.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 07, 2007, 11:13:04 PM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 08, 2007, 02:31:51 AM
I do understand what he says about "feeling forced" but really, it is just a transition, but as smooth but it works.
I personally don't believe it is "cheery" instead it feels like the start of an adventure. Sorta like the Indiana Jones theme. It has this excitement level before the adventure turns sour and dangerous.
Unfortunately, if this was really based on Kid Icarus they would realize that the adventure turns sour 1 minute into game because it is so hard.
Still I may have to get into the 8-bit game again, but man I can't bet that first dungeon level.
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2007, 02:41:20 AM
Post by: Pale on August 08, 2007, 03:13:39 AM
Post by: Strell on August 08, 2007, 03:36:41 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2007, 04:01:53 AM
But that doesn't kill my enthusiasm for the game because who can even hear the music in the middle of an intense SSB match anyway?
Post by: Strell on August 08, 2007, 04:05:21 AM
So no one cares what you think.
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2007, 04:06:11 AM
Edit:
Relistened to all of them and I stand by what I said. It just doesn't seem as polished as the rest.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 08, 2007, 04:14:59 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2007, 04:18:04 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2007, 04:35:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
You play the game without items and only when the Moon is in the fifth house, perfectly aligned with Mars.
So no one cares what you think.
I play the games with items with four players when they're willing to play, which isn't often.
Furthermore, I think the music of Melee is better than anything I've heard off this site, and no amount of whining from the peanut gallery will invalidate my opinion.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2007, 05:56:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I seriously wonder if the "omfg, midi != orchestraz!11" comments are equivalent to the people who say things like "UNLESS IT'S 1080P IT HURTSA MAH EYEZ WOMG."
Seriously! Or like complaining about lack of voice-acting...It...makes me want to punt something...or someone...
Post by: Louieturkey on August 08, 2007, 05:56:58 AM
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 08, 2007, 06:09:48 AM
Or have several classic Nintendo music that although midi is being arranged by the largest pull of talented video game musicians in Japan.
Although, orchestral pieces are always better, I have not been disappointed with the quality of music in Brawl and I am pleased that I will be getting more rather than less.
Though now that this is the musical post, and no really big announcements have been made this week, I am hoping for one or two surprises for Thursday and Friday. I would not mind a classic character revealed...or another stage, but I really want to know more about the single player game. Will the mini games and events be back? How about a nice surprise announcement of another new character!!! Or you could just confirm or deny WiFi support.
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2007, 06:18:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I seriously wonder if the "omfg, midi != orchestraz!11" comments are equivalent to the people who say things like "UNLESS IT'S 1080P IT HURTSA MAH EYEZ WOMG."
Well, music is more important to different people. I love soundtracks, they dominate my collection of music, so I was hoping for really grand stuff from the Brawl score as a few of these will likely make it onto my iPod in the end (yes, I'm that much of a nerd). Not that I'm dissatisfied with the end result, but I do think it could have been better with a orchestra.
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
You play the game without items and only when the Moon is in the fifth house, perfectly aligned with Mars.
So no one cares what you think.
Now that was a bit uncalled for. I certainly never got the impression that Smash_Brothers was a "tournament play style only" snob, or anything. I am getting tired of the people who seem fairly close minded about how people play too, either with or without items... why does it matter how others enjoy the game? Hopefully, the sarcasm just flew over my head in the last post, though.
Post by: Strell on August 08, 2007, 07:16:55 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2007, 07:27:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Now that was a bit uncalled for. I certainly never got the impression that Smash_Brothers was a "tournament play style only" snob, or anything. I am getting tired of the people who seem fairly close minded about how people play too, either with or without items... why does it matter how others enjoy the game? Hopefully, the sarcasm just flew over my head in the last post, though.
This goes back to an older argument between him and I about tiers and balance.
Sakurai has said that they'll be paying close attention to balance in Brawl which is why heavy characters (like Ike) will have moves which will be unstoppable.
I don't want to start the argument again, Strell. All I'm saying is that Brawl is looking more and more like it'll have better balance and I like what I've seen.
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 07:44:05 AM
Midi for life woot.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2007, 08:41:42 AM
My dream Smashdate is anything Earthbound-related, though it'd make the most sense to start off with Ness' Profile...
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 08:54:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
We've gone the longest without a new Final Smash or How to Play/Techniques Smashdate, so I'll go with Pit's Final Smash...
My dream Smashdate is anything Earthbound-related, though it'd make the most sense to start off with Ness' Profile...
i've been thinking about what ness might look like. will he go the "cute" route like yoshi/pikachu where his model is basically the same with some extra polygons or will they try to make him a little more like-like, ala link, zelda or pit? with Pit they completely reimagined him for 3d but with Ness they already have a model to work with from melee which is pretty cartoony and "cute." is there a chance they might change him though?
while we're on the subject of EB, brawl should have Paula to add more female characters to the roster, or pokey (with spider looking robot armor perhaps?) to add more villains.
and this is a long shot but it would be awesome to get to name Ness' final smash (PSI *favorite thing*). the more realistic guess for his final smash will be PSI starstorm omega.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2007, 09:00:36 AM
I also definitely think Paula should be added, though it'd make just as much sense to just make her a costume...A clone is a possibility, but then NESS would become the clone considering he's stolen most of his attacks from her...In a perfect world, I would give Paula her moves back and give Ness a new move-set that better represents his in Earthbound...On another note, I predict Flint or Lucas to join the cast from Mother 3...
And yes, PSI ___ Omega would be fantastic...I would rather not Ness steal yet ANOTHER move...
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 09:07:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I think he'll most definitely go the Yoshi route, with some slightly better "simplistic" textures...Since this is HAL's character, expect them to hold the character as true to the original as possible! =D
I also definitely think Paula should be added, though it'd make just as much sense to just make her a costume...A clone is a possibility, but then NESS would become the clone considering he's stolen most of his attacks from her...In a perfect world, I would give Paula her moves back and give Ness a new move-set that better represents his in Earthbound...On another note, I predict Flint or Lucas to join the cast from Mother 3...
And yes, PSI ___ Omega would be fantastic...I would rather not Ness steal yet ANOTHER move...
i wouldnt mind keeping him as true to the original as possible but even the melee model looked a lil off.. i guess i was expecting him to look a little more like the clay models found in the earthbound "manual."
if they added Lucas or Flint and didnt announce a US release for Mother 3, i will riot in the street.
and yes, in a perfect world paula and ness would be more like their original characters in brawl, but i have a feeling they'll keep ness as in and have his final smash be starstorm omega, stealing poo's power. i'd love for them to prove me wrong and have his *favorite thing* be the final smash, especially if they used the same on screen images from the original game, with or without new sound effects. that would ROCK!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2007, 09:27:31 AM
I'm hoping for Flint from Mother 3 to be in the game. Of course I wonder with Mother 3 being Japan only and all, but it is the latest Mother game and so it seems likely that Sakurai would put in a character from it since it's the latest one. Plus I think Sakurai might be willing to do it since Flints a cowboy, and American's love cowboys. He has a much better chance of being loved in America then Marth and Roy did and so I could see that being the decided factor for Sakurai.
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2007, 10:18:56 AM
Post by: Kenology on August 08, 2007, 10:49:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Arbok
Well, music is more important to different people. I love soundtracks, they dominate my collection of music, so I was hoping for really grand stuff from the Brawl score as a few of these will likely make it onto my iPod in the end (yes, I'm that much of a nerd). Not that I'm dissatisfied with the end result, but I do think it could have been better with a orchestra.
VGM soundtracks dominate my collection of music too. While I think the arrangement itself is really nice (even though it sounds somewhat lifted from Manabu Namiki's arrangement in Famicom 20th Anniversary Arrange Soundtracks), I just think more realistic samples should've been used. I personally love MIDI music (and yes, I'm one of the poeple who want MIDI music in my Zelda games as opposed to a real orchestra - which isn't even realistic, but tha's another discussion).
It's not that I'ma synth whore, it's just that I've heard better sample pumped out of my N64 even.
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2007, 11:02:53 AM
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2007, 11:40:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Weren't we guaranteed no Japan only characters? It's pretty safe to assume that no Mother 3 characters would be in the game unless NOA announces Mother 3 first. Personally, I want to see Poo. He'd be awesome.
No, there was no guarantee. Sakurai said that since Smash Bros is more popular outside of Japan they don't really plan on throwing in Japan only characters. But he then said, since Marth and Roy were so well received by western audiences though, they'd think about MAYBE using a Japanese only character.
This is why many believe Marth still might be in the game, but it does open the door to maybe a Mother 3 character appearing as well. Since Mother 2 was released in America, people here are familiar with the series and since Mother 3 is the most recent one in Japan, it's one of those cases where Sakurai might consider adding a Japan only character.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 08, 2007, 11:43:04 AM
I feel the same about F-zero, C. Falcon will probably be the only playable character from the series, and he already has an alternate costume, Blood Falcon, and I would like to see another costume be Kent Akechi, while his version of the costume is kind of plain it just looks better than the original in my opinion, plus that would be such an obscure cameo, and I love me some obscure cameos.
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Weren't we guaranteed no Japan only characters?
From my memory, Sakurai said that they would try to stray away from adding Japan only characters, which to me sound like a stance of noncommittal, in other words; not a guarantee.
EDIT: Sorry Luigi Dude, I was still writing my post when yours was posted.
Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Personally I would like a How To Play. In specific: Dodging. I wonder if that mechanic has changed any.
You know, I do not think that I have seen a single shield in all the media for this game, but plenty of dodging. I wonder if the shield is even in the game. I am sure that any "how to play" update dealing with dodging would have to tackle shielding, which would answer my questions, so I am with you.
As far as this game's soundtrack, and in my opinion all game soundtracks, is concerned,everything in game should be midi, because of its ability to warp and bend fluidly with in game actions as well as its relatively low overhead, and only scripted events like cut-scenes, intros, credits, Title screens, etc. should use non-midi formats. I throw out this view if we are talking about music and rhythm based games because then the music is more important to the actual game and the format used should be whatever fits that specific game's need.
Post by: Shecky on August 08, 2007, 12:44:27 PM
One key response is that it makes last minute changes harder to deal with, which is an interesting side effect I had not thought of...
A friend of mine has some midi program that cost more than nothing and has a single instrument takes something on the order of a gig to store. If they ran the scores through high end midi equipment and recorded that for the game... how would you even tell?
Post by: UERD on August 08, 2007, 01:04:45 PM
Quote
how would you even tell?
It would be pretty dang hard. I have some Final Fantasy-inspired piece I got off OCRemix and it sounds almost completely orchestral, even though it's all software. Unfortunately, soundtracks are the only really good source of contemporary, melodic orchestrated music anymore, so it would be a pity if MIDI forced those musicians out of a job :P.
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 01:37:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: TVman
Weren't we guaranteed no Japan only characters? It's pretty safe to assume that no Mother 3 characters would be in the game unless NOA announces Mother 3 first. Personally, I want to see Poo. He'd be awesome.
plus how cool would it be for the smash announcer guy to yell out POO!!!!! on the character select screen.
but seriously, paula as an alt costume for ness i can see but poo and (lets not forget about) jeff could both have their own unique fighting styles. Poo could be a medium whieght speed character with martial arts type moves while jeff could be a normal paced lightweight with projectile moves and use lots of gadgetry.
having never played mother 3 i cant comment on flint or lucas.
also, wheres the pokey love!?
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2007, 01:45:17 PM
Post by: Tanookisuit on August 08, 2007, 01:49:52 PM
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 02:06:36 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 08, 2007, 02:16:04 PM
OMG another female Nintendo character you guys forgot!
Edit: doh.
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 02:37:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
On the contrary... maybe they'll add in Paula?
OMG another female Nintendo character you guys forgot!
my post from the last page:
Quote
while we're on the subject of EB, brawl should have Paula to add more female characters to the roster, or pokey (with spider looking robot armor perhaps?) to add more villains.
Post by: Smoke39 on August 08, 2007, 03:02:35 PM
Also, I want to be able to play as a starman. Those guys just look cool. :b
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2007, 04:02:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Oh god. I talked about the moon's alignment, people. Did you think I was being serious?
Yep, clearly over my head... sorry about that.
Quote
Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
I'm kind of wondering if even Ness will be back...
Why wouldn't he be? Wasn't it stated at one point that all the original Smash Bros characters would be back? I think the cuts are going to come from the ones added to Melee.
Post by: Kairon on August 08, 2007, 04:28:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I'd like to see Jeff added. His lack of PSI would make him contrast nicely to Ness, and his reliance on guns and other equipment could make him a unique character.
Jeff? Oh, you mean Isaac. Or is that Abraham?
Post by: EasyCure on August 08, 2007, 06:42:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: Smoke39
I'd like to see Jeff added. His lack of PSI would make him contrast nicely to Ness, and his reliance on guns and other equipment could make him a unique character.
Jeff? Oh, you mean Isaac. Or is that Abraham?
Which one of The Beatles names did he get?
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2007, 08:03:22 PM
So flashy, so awesome.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 08, 2007, 08:04:01 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 08:04:33 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 08, 2007, 08:05:35 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 08:07:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yes I agree, that looks like an AWESOME special move and could make for some crazy fun watching people try to dodge the army of Centurions.
GP and I agree on something Smash related!
Truly this is a wonderful update <3
(On somewhat of a downer, does this mean there is no chance Palutena is a playable character?)
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2007, 08:09:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
On somewhat of a downer, does this mean there is no chance Palutena is a playable character?
I'd be willing to bet she has no chance of being playable at this point.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 08, 2007, 08:09:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Yes I agree, that looks like an AWESOME special move and could make for some crazy fun watching people try to dodge the army of Centurions.
GP and I agree on something Smash related!
Truly this is a wonderful update <3
(On somewhat of a downer, does this mean there is no chance Palutena is a playable character?)
I would say there is no chance of that. They better have Daisy in it though! We need more girls in it besides Zelda and Samus that aren't prissy Peachs. What I like about this special is that it appears while it will give you a definite advantage it doesn't mean automatic knockout either because you may be able to skillfully dodge the Centurions.
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2007, 08:12:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
We need more girls in it besides Zelda and Samus that aren't prissy Peachs.
I concur... this game needs Lash:
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 08:14:27 PM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 08, 2007, 09:11:32 PM
Speaking of Final Smashes I'm willing to bet anything that the minute Brawl is released there will be some people that will say that the final smashes are very cheap and thus the game is very unbalanced.
It happened to Strikers...
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 09:18:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I like how Palutena's army is composed of cartoony characters. They remind a bit of Popeye :P .
Speaking of Final Smashes I'm willing to bet anything that the minute Brawl is released there will be some people that will say that the final smashes are very cheap and thus the game is very unbalanced.
It happened to Strikers...
Nah, something that can only be used once per match won't be considered unbalanced.
Edit: Also Strikers =/= Brawl in any way shape or form
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 08, 2007, 09:26:06 PM
Even with the rules established I'm sure someone will play Brawl, get pwned by a final smash and whine about it.
Post by: Mashiro on August 08, 2007, 09:28:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
I mentioned Strikers because I know someone that believes the game is unbalanced because of the megastrikes, even though they are very hard to do during a heated match against skilled players.
Even with the rules established I'm sure someone will play Brawl, get pwned by a final smash and whine about it.
Well maybe but in any case those people will be happy that they can switch items off.
Edit: I mean once per match won't even off set things enough to really make a difference. Yeah they are gonna be awesome flashy moves and add something nice and new to the gameplay but it won't be like "zomg he keeps doing the super charged attack in Strikers AIYEEE!"
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 08, 2007, 09:44:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
We've gone the longest without a new Final Smash or How to Play/Techniques Smashdate, so I'll go with Pit's Final Smash...
Yay, got one on the dot for once... =D
But...This confirms no playable Palutena...
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 01:19:14 AM
We really do not know how the FSA and the Smash Ball work, the wording in that update is probably the most vague of all the updates so far.
I think that tonights update will most likely be a "how to play", maybe on shielding, or a Pokemon/Assist Trophy update.
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2007, 02:47:11 AM
Pit's final Smash is cool, but it looks like it may be weaker than some of the other ones...like say Giga-Bowser, or even Mario's Final Smash.
As for female characters Nintendo can put into Brawl. We have made this list several times.
1)Jill She would be a great heavier female character with her mech and all.
2)Fire Emblem girl: Light weight sword fighter with magic...would love to have some sort of healing attack for new variety.
3)Daisy: Tomboy Princess that kicks butt
4)Wendy the Koopa: Not likely, but she could represent.
5)Birdo: Most likely a costume switch for Yoshi.
6)Any female from Advanced Wars would be good.
7)Krystal from Star Fox
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 03:49:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
1)Jill She would be a great heavier female character with her mech and all.
2)Fire Emblem girl: Light weight sword fighter with magic...would love to have some sort of healing attack for new variety.
3)Midna (/Wolf Link)
4)Paula
5)Birdo: Most likely a costume switch for Yoshi.
6)Any female from Advanced Wars would be good, most likely Sami
7)Krystal from Star Fox
8)Lip (Panel de Pon)
Fixed for various reasons...
(I see the Koopa Kids MAYBE making an appearance as an Assist Trophy at most...)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2007, 04:00:13 AM
Paula would work. I forgot to put her on there, and then saw it mentioned by others, so I figured I would leave it be.
Midna: I may be the only one, but I really do not want a Wolf Link in the game at all. That leaves her in her imp form alone or as the full restored "Princess" version of the Twilight Princess. Either of those could work well...but my favorite idea would be to replace Sheik with a turning into the Twilight Princess and Zelda, but they are the two Princesses in the two realms, but I don't think that idea would work well.
I don't know Lip very well, but I do agree that the Koopa kids make better Assist trophies, specially if one of them can turn players into an animal temporarily.
As for the rest of my list, you could of just added on to it...and not taken away. There is nothing wrong with Daisy.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 04:43:34 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 05:00:02 AM
Captain Syrup (Wario Land 1 & 2)
Princess Shokora (Wario Land 4)
Mona (Warioware series)
Katt (StarFox series)
Kumatora (Mother 3)
Jody Summer (F-Zero)
The princess from Galaxy is named Rosetta.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 05:03:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Is the last pick of this update depicting Ike blocking a Centurion or engaging/disengaging eruption, or is it just hit stun? If he is in fact blocking where is the bubble shield?
I'm wondering the same thing. That looks a lot more like a block than anything else. Also, in the original trailer, Pit is shown blocking with his sword. Other things in that video have turned out to be real gameplay features, so maybe the bubble shield is no more.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 05:06:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Is the last pick of this update depicting Ike blocking a Centurion or engaging/disengaging eruption, or is it just hit stun? If he is in fact blocking where is the bubble shield?
I'm wondering the same thing. That looks a lot more like a block than anything else. Also, in the original trailer, Pit is shown blocking with his sword. Other things in that video have turned out to be real gameplay features, so maybe the bubble shield is no more.
Or maybe Ike is so badass that even when getting hit hard, it doesn't look like he was hit.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 05:08:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Some more female character ideas:
The princess from Galaxy is named Rosetta.
Ah thanks, I now vaguely remember that name during E3. We still don't know her personality though. It would suck if she becomes something completely different than a Peach clone but used as such in Brawl.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 05:13:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Is the last pick of this update depicting Ike blocking a Centurion or engaging/disengaging eruption, or is it just hit stun? If he is in fact blocking where is the bubble shield?
I'm wondering the same thing. That looks a lot more like a block than anything else. Also, in the original trailer, Pit is shown blocking with his sword. Other things in that video have turned out to be real gameplay features, so maybe the bubble shield is no more.
Well, that may be some form of guarding or Pit may have a parry type attack, but I think that scene may be more for dramatic effect, but what did catch my eye after rewatching the first trailer just now is when Metaknight wraps his cape around himself to block Pit's arrow, maybe that is not a special move as most, including myself, first thought.
Post by: EasyCure on August 09, 2007, 05:24:12 AM
hell i wouldn't even want her to be an assist trophy knowing that she's already in the background of a stage! why you ask? well that would mean they axed another, more obscure, character from being an assist trophy in favor of one that's model is already in the game. That to me equals lazy! this game looks so polished already that i'd hate for there to be any signs of laziness.
besides most of us accepted or at least hypothesised that no characters shown in the Smashville stage would be playable, why should Midna be any different?
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 05:34:03 AM
*runs off to check Eldin update*
...
*comes running back*
*shoves screens in EasyCure's face*
She is NOT in these screens!
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 05:38:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: EasyCure
I thought Midna would make a cool character too but that was until she showed up above The Bridge of Eldin doing construction work. That puts her in the no way she can be playback maybe as an assist trophy category.
hell i wouldn't even want her to be an assist trophy knowing that she's already in the background of a stage! why you ask? well that would mean they axed another, more obscure, character from being an assist trophy in favor of one that's model is already in the game. That to me equals lazy! this game looks so polished already that i'd hate for there to be any signs of laziness.
besides most of us accepted or at least hypothesised that no characters shown in the Smashville stage would be playable, why should Midna be any different?
I looked at all the media of Eldin Bridge and I cannot see any sign of Midna being anywhere, but maybe I am missing something.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 05:39:55 AM
If anything this proves she's a character, because she is the one to open the portal and fix the bridge in TP, yet she's not shown in these screens...
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 05:53:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I think he just saw the portal and assumed Midna was the one opening it...
If anything this proves she's a character, because she is the one to open the portal and fix the bridge in TP, yet she's not shown in these screens...
Or she's an assist trophy that shows up to fix the bridge after it breaks.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 06:00:19 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 06:03:29 AM
Post by: EasyCure on August 09, 2007, 06:06:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Wait, they showed her in screens!? I do not recall such a thing!
*runs off to check Eldin update*
...
*comes running back*
*shoves screens in EasyCure's face*
She is NOT in these screens!
DAMN YOU BILL!!!
I will forever shake my fist at you for this mockery!
ok well then maybe she is but i'd rather her not be riding link that's zelda, malin, ruto, and nabaroos job
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 06:08:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
All that is moot though since we have no evidence that Midna is the one fixing the bridge.
Actually, there is a little evidence in the fact that she does it in Twilight Princess. We haven't seen anyone else from any other game going in there and fixing it, so she is the most logical choice at this point.
Or it could just happen randomly as the level progresses.
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 06:12:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Some more female character ideas:
Captain Syrup (Wario Land 1 & 2)
Princess Shokora (Wario Land 4)
Mona (Warioware series)
Katt (StarFox series)
Kumatora (Mother 3)
Jody Summer (F-Zero)
The princess from Galaxy is named Rosetta.
Needs more Dixie Kong...
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 06:14:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: LouieturkeyQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
All that is moot though since we have no evidence that Midna is the one fixing the bridge.
Actually, there is a little evidence in the fact that she does it in Twilight Princess. We haven't seen anyone else from any other game going in there and fixing it, so she is the most logical choice at this point.
Or it could just happen randomly as the level progresses.
Considering that in TP Midna only used the portals that were already setup by the bad guys, and they in fact transported the bridge away to begin with, there is little evidence that Midna has to be present for the bridge to drop out of a portal.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 06:18:37 AM
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 06:23:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: anubis6789
Some more female character ideas:
Captain Syrup (Wario Land 1 & 2)
Princess Shokora (Wario Land 4)
Mona (Warioware series)
Katt (StarFox series)
Kumatora (Mother 3)
Jody Summer (F-Zero)
The princess from Galaxy is named Rosetta.
Needs more Dixie Kong...
I knew I was forgetting someone obvious.
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
So, who else will be playing as Pit just to get his hawt goddess to show up now and then?
I was going to post saying something to this effect, but I was too scared to, But yeah, one more reason why I am probably going to be playing as Pit.
Post by: Louieturkey on August 09, 2007, 06:25:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
So, who else will be playing as Pit just to get his hawt goddess to show up now and then?
*raises hand*
I'm one of those people. Though I'm also going to play Samus to see her Zero Suit self in all her glory.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 06:29:50 AM
I mean, making Samus turn into Z-Suit Samus seems unnecessary, especially since you won't even be playing as her without the final smash (unless there is another way to play as her).
That, and now Palutena. Compare her original design to the new one (on that same page). She was pretty conservative where as the new version is showing a thigh-high stocking and a substantial amount of leg.
Post by: anubis6789 on August 09, 2007, 06:34:38 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 06:44:26 AM
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2007, 06:51:46 AM
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 07:00:33 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 07:01:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
S_B, Smash Bros. already had a lot of latent bubbling sexuality: upskirts of Peach and Zelda, and Daisy's third eye!
An upskirt shot with tights isn't in the same league as the side of a woman's bare buttock, which is what Pal is showing here.
In fact, I think it's safe to say that this will be the first time such a thing has appeared in a Nintendo-made game. The picture might be a little deceiving, as it might only flash her thigh for a moment in motion, but still, this is the raciest a Nintendo game has ever gotten to the best of my knowledge.
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
It's also kind of unfair to compare a characters cartoony design from 20 years ago to a new design today. It'd be like having Super Mario Bros. as the only Mario game and then suddenly Strikers comes out and claiming that "wow strikers is going for a lot more sex appeal! look at peaches design".
Strikers' designs were already in place in a previous game, and we've never seen Peach's bare behind (or even a side profile of it).
Considering that SSBB didn't NEED either Pal in her stockings or Z-Suit Samus in her skin-tight glory, all I'm saying is this is clearly intentional on Nintendo's part. They're probably aiming for an older audience.
Anyone want to start a betting pool that Z-Suit Samus will be on the cover of Brawl?
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2007, 07:08:50 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 07:09:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
An upskirt shot with tights isn't in the same league as the side of a woman's bare buttock, which is what Pal is showing here.
*stares at the screenshot for awhile unblinkingly*
... I need a higher rez image.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 07:16:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
So, who else will be playing as Pit just to get his hawt goddess to show up now and then?
I already had the hots for Pit, but this is definitely the icing on the cake...
(I can't believe such a great character model will only appear every once in a while...Please, oh please, Ninty, use the model in an all-new Kid Icarus...)
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 07:21:29 AM
Quote
Considering that SSBB didn't NEED either Pal in her stockings or Z-Suit Samus in her skin-tight glory, all I'm saying is this is clearly intentional on Nintendo's part. They're probably aiming for an older audience.
You mean Melee?
Honestly I don't think a special showing off Pal's ass somewhat and Zero suit Samus means massive sex appeal being put into the game to appeal to a wider audience. Furthermore Zero suit Samus isn't all that "sexy" of a character IMHO.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 07:21:46 AM
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2007, 07:22:20 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 07:32:15 AM
I think that Nintendo's internal art style is simply coming to reflect the more exposed accepted image-culture we have today, where even young girls can idolize Britney Spears and Xtina the like.
Ironically, this may be a way of keeping up with their main audience: the kids.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 07:32:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro You mean Melee?
No, I meant Brawl. SSBB will still sell 6 million+ copies with or without Z-Suit Samus or any other sex appeal. I'm just saying that it's clear they went out of their way to add it.
Quote
Honestly I don't think a special showing off Pal's ass somewhat and Zero suit Samus means massive sex appeal being put into the game to appeal to a wider audience. Furthermore Zero suit Samus isn't all that "sexy" of a character IMHO.
I didn't say it was "massive", but it certainly is far, FAR more than what we've seen in any past Nintendo game, really. That's largely in comparison to the vacuum of sex appeal in previous games. I mean, the original SSB had absolutely none (unless you count Link's prettiness). SSBM didn't have any overt sex appeal, but Brawl certainly does.
And the rest of the internet pretty much disagrees with you about ZSSamus.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 07:34:45 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 07:36:08 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 07:38:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
It's a stylistic choice...I hardly think Ninty is thinking of "sexing up" the game through the semi-rare appearance of a Final Smash...
Be it through that or ZSS, I'm pointing out that Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 07:39:22 AM
Seeing Palutena in this screen is amazing, but in motion should be STUNNING...
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 07:44:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Seeing Palutena in this screen is amazing, but in motion should be STUNNING...
Personally, considering her involvement, I'm expecting her not to move at all actually... just appear and then "flash away" or something as the minions move onto the scene.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 07:46:24 AM
Hopefully, she'll at least wave her scepter around or something.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 07:48:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
S_B, Smash Bros. already had a lot of latent bubbling sexuality: upskirts of Peach and Zelda, and Daisy's third eye!
What kind of bizarre perversion makes Daisy's third eye something sexual?
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 07:48:27 AM
I see her appearing in a flash of light, raising her scepter (along with her clothes and hair blowing in the wind), and then she'll disappear in time for the Centurions to buzz the playing field...
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 07:53:44 AM
Quote
No, I meant Brawl. SSBB will still sell 6 million+ copies with or without Z-Suit Samus or any other sex appeal. I'm just saying that it's clear they went out of their way to add it.
Oh . . . I'm going to agree with Bill on this I just think it's a design choice. What are they going to do, advertise these few segments so overly horny teenagers will be like "zomg a bare ass! must have!!!1111one!!!"?
Quote
And the rest of the internet pretty much disagrees with you about ZSSamus.
The majority of the internet is weird and sex(iness) deprived.
Zero Suit Samus is not sexy.
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2007, 08:06:00 AM
Quote
Be it through that or ZSS, I'm pointing out that Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
What about Metroid 3 and 4?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 08:14:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And the rest of the internet pretty much disagrees with you about ZSSamus.
I don't care what the rest of the internetz thinks abt how hawt ZSSamus is, I don't like Nintendo turning Samus into a big breasted, blond haired, barbie doll bimbo, which is in contrast to her original design in Super Metroid and even Fusion.
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 08:14:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
Be it through that or ZSS, I'm pointing out that Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
What about Metroid 3 and 4?
Yeah, I mean the whole point of doing quick time runs in games like Super Metroid was for some quick, and lame T&A...
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 08:15:12 AM
Quote
Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
Hmmm I dunno:
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 08:20:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
Hmmm I dunno:
She actually looks like a strong character in those pics, compared to the now huge breasted barbie doll look.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 08:22:44 AM
Quote
She actually looks like a strong character in those pics, compared to the now huge breasted barbie doll look.
I wasn't questioning your opinion.
Though I do think the Super Metroid look suits her the best though for non-barbie looks.
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 08:23:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
She actually looks like a strong character in those pics, compared to the now huge breasted barbie doll look.
...really? I mean, I could see that in the Super Metroid pic, but the Gameboy one?
Anyway, I will throw in my two cents that I was slightly disappointed upon first seeing Zero Suit Samus in Brawl. I always considered her the "Ripley" of the video game universe, who threw norms out the window, while that look pretty much subjected her to those very stereotypes. Oh well, I'm not expecting it to be carried into the Prime franchise so... meh.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 08:25:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Hmmm I dunno:
She actually looks like a strong character in those pics, compared to the now huge breasted barbie doll look.
...really? I mean, I could see that in the Super Metroid pic, but the Gameboy one?
Anyway, I will throw in my two cents that I was slightly disappointed upon first seeing Zero Suit Samus in Brawl. I always considered her the "Ripley" of the video game universe, who threw norms out the window, while that look pretty much subjected her to those very stereotypes. Oh well, I'm not expecting it to be carried into the Prime franchise so... meh.
Metroid II sucks so it doesn't count, everything was wrong with that game. My main point is that this new Zero Suit Samus doesn't appear to be the type of woman that would be one of the most feared bounty hunters in the world and a "scrapper" so to speak.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 08:30:02 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 08:37:27 AM
*ashamed*
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2007, 08:41:56 AM
Quote
I don't like Nintendo turning Samus into a big breasted, blond haired, barbie doll bimbo, which is in contrast to her original design in Super Metroid and even Fusion.
They made her chest larger in Fusion.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 08:44:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: AdrockQuote
I don't like Nintendo turning Samus into a big breasted, blond haired, barbie doll bimbo, which is in contrast to her original design in Super Metroid and even Fusion.
They made her chest larger in Fusion.
Well that is the one aspect I don't like, but at least Fusion tried to not go overboard which NIntendo is doing now (Zero Mission was really the start of this new design)
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2007, 08:53:46 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 09:32:49 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 09:40:14 AM
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 09:44:14 AM
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 09:45:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
You don't get to complain about art and design if you've got something anime inspired as your avatar.
Wow really?
Yeah anime has nothing to do with art and design and is terrible. /sarcasim
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 09:49:02 AM
I really wish every company in the world would suddenly use that template as their RPG main character, because it's such an untapped resource.
Hey - maybe they could make the girl look like she's 12. That would be awesome.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 09:51:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Well I certainly have a shortage of plucky young adolescent boys with wild long hair wielding swords where they save the world alongside their childhood female friend.
I really wish every company in the world would suddenly use that template as their RPG main character, because it's such an untapped resource.
Hey - maybe they could make the girl look like she's 12. That would be awesome.
So because something is overly used you can make blanket statements such that anime or Japanese inspired animation =/= any sort of art and design?
Yeah good point man, well thought out!
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 09:55:31 AM
Tired boring design in every RPG means I can't call it devoid of design?
You're right. When every RPG in the world features Cloud but with a different shade of hair, that's design at its best.
Let's go back to debating what sex appeal is, and about how if someone is in a skin tight uniform, that instantly means they can't be seen as anything more than sex object, because that's just the way things are.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 09:57:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I'm sorry, is there a reason I can't?
Tired boring design in every RPG means I can't call it devoid of design?
You're right. When every RPG in the world features Cloud but with a different shade of hair, that's design at its best.
Let's go back to debating what sex appeal is, and about how if someone is in a skin tight uniform, that instantly means they can't be seen as anything more than sex object, because that's just the way things are.
That is the primary reason behind the choice of skin tight uniforms, especially when you have something as busty and unrealistically "endowed" as Samus who looks like she is built more for the anime swimsuit magazine not as a battle hardened, yet attractive bounty hunter feared and respected around galaxy.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 09:57:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I'm sorry, is there a reason I can't?
Tired boring design in every RPG means I can't call it devoid of design?
You're right. When every RPG in the world features Cloud but with a different shade of hair, that's design at its best.
Let's go back to debating what sex appeal is, and about how if someone is in a skin tight uniform, that instantly means they can't be seen as anything more than sex object, because that's just the way things are.
Oh really? Hang tight for a second while I prove how grossly over exaggerated your statements are (and once again how you blanket ALL OF ANIME into RPGS). Ignorance is bliss.
Edit: Oh I'll make a separate thread for this as to not derail this one. Continue one with sexy discussion
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 09:59:11 AM
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 09:59:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
That is the primary reason behind especially when you have something as busty and unrealistically portioned as Samus.
She doesn't look any more out of place than Lara Croft, and I doubt there's going to be a huge jiggle factor since that's not Nintendo's MO, so this doesn't strike me as suddenly nothing more than sex appeal when we've got games like Dead or Alive running around.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 09:59:41 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 10:01:23 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 10:04:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
That is the primary reason behind especially when you have something as busty and unrealistically portioned as Samus.
She doesn't look any more out of place than Lara Croft, and I doubt there's going to be a huge jiggle factor since that's not Nintendo's MO, so this doesn't strike me as suddenly nothing more than sex appeal when we've got games like Dead or Alive running around.
I really wouldn't consider Laura Croft or the DOA designs as what Samus should look like, the Metroid series tone and her portrayal in the series should be taken into consideration.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 10:07:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
That is the primary reason behind especially when you have something as busty and unrealistically portioned as Samus.
She doesn't look any more out of place than Lara Croft, and I doubt there's going to be a huge jiggle factor since that's not Nintendo's MO, so this doesn't strike me as suddenly nothing more than sex appeal when we've got games like Dead or Alive running around.
I really wouldn't consider Laura Croft or the DOA designs as what Samus should look like, the Metroid series tone and her portrayal in the series should be taken into consideration.
/agreed
Hell I don't even give the DoA series respect anymore as it's just a big cash cow for horny gamers who get off on seeing hot polygons bounce around the screen and they say it's a good game.
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 10:08:41 AM
All I'm saying is that the context of things, she's going to get compared to other characters, especially fighting characters, and at that point the whole comparison seems to break down.
Taki is much the same way in Soul Calibur - she's skin tight and her breasts goggle around. But compared to DOA it's completely negligable.
If we're going to sit here and say she looks like nothing more than sex appeal, it just seems to fall apart when we get outside of our concentrated bubble.
A better argument might be that Sheik is Zelda, but she looks like a total hard ass and plays like one, and doesn't seem to perv it up.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 10:09:42 AM
But seriously guys, let's not make the mistake of thinking that just because someone is beutiful, it therefore follows that they must be vapid as well. Yes yes, I started this whole thing, but I repent! I see the light! I was wrong ok!!! ... doesn't mean I have to like her art design though.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 10:11:35 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 10:15:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I don't think there should be temporary bans over some harmless fun!
But seriously guys, let's not make the mistake of thinking that just because someone is beutiful, it therefore follows that they must be vapid as well. Yes yes, I started this whole thing, but I repent! I see the light! I was wrong ok!!! ... doesn't mean I have to like her art design though.
Fake/bigbreasted/1inch waist/stereotypical game design female characters are not beautiful especially for a battle hardened and already established character design for Metroid. Why must Nintendo turn Samus into your copy cat game design barbie doll woman? WHat is wrong with her being more toned, proportional, and yet still remain very attractive?
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 10:16:56 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 10:17:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Well, then, let's not discriminate against the surgically enhanced. No matter how much silcone they contain, they're still people!
Lol. I can just imagine Samus getting a breast job done on her down time from fighting aliens around the galaxy with her life in danger at all times.
"Before I go into battle I think I need to make my hair nice, get a boob job which could hinder my mobility, put on some makeup, and wear skin tight uniforms"
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 10:18:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I don't think there should be temporary bans over some harmless fun!
But seriously guys, let's not make the mistake of thinking that just because someone is beutiful, it therefore follows that they must be vapid as well. Yes yes, I started this whole thing, but I repent! I see the light! I was wrong ok!!! ... doesn't mean I have to like her art design though.
Fake/bigbreasted/1inch waist/stereotypical game design female characters are not beautiful especially for a battle hardened and already established character design for Metroid. Why must Nintendo turn Samus into your copy cat game design barbie doll woman? WHat is wrong with her being more toned, proportional, and yet still remain very attractive?
well said GP well said.
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2007, 10:23:35 AM
Quote
Pal in her stockings or Z-Suit Samus in her skin-tight glory, all I'm saying is this is clearly intentional on Nintendo's part. They're probably aiming for an older audience.
Nintendo would never intentionally try to mature up their games. They want them to be fun to everyone not just 13yr old boys. Also if Nintendo was trying to then it wouldn't be Z-suit Samus but NO-suit Samus or at least bikini Samus and as for Pal, aren't most goddess usually show as nearly/completely nude anyway. Everything else, I blame on game programmer with 18 hour shift who haven't seen daylight for over 2 years
Quote
ok well then maybe she is but i'd rather her not be riding link that's malin job
Malin? Do you mean Marin or Malon? Yes, there a difference
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 10:28:13 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 10:30:08 AM
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 10:32:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I want to point out the irony of complaining about ZSS being in, well, a full body suit, when we should all expect a bathing suit whenever Samus's armor comes off.
The zero suit makes way more sense than a bathing suit for wearing under that armor. That would chafe.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 10:35:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
I want to point out the irony of complaining about ZSS being in, well, a full body suit, when we should all expect a bathing suit whenever Samus's armor comes off.
For some odd reason I don't believe my points focused on what she was wearing for the most port but more of he overall body design. Personally I don't care much about the zero suit either way, it is what they did to the rest of her model in order to sexualize the skin tight suit more.
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 10:37:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
The zero suit makes way more sense than a bathing suit for wearing under that armor. That would chafe.
My power suit doesn't chafe me.
Maybe it's a woman thing.
GP: It just doesn't seem intentional, and seems pretty innocuous compared to other things. But such is differing viewpoints.
Post by: stevey on August 09, 2007, 10:39:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Strell
I want to point out the irony of complaining about ZSS being in, well, a full body suit, when we should all expect a bathing suit whenever Samus's armor comes off.
The zero suit makes way more sense than a bathing suit for wearing under that armor. That would chafe.
But wouldnt it get HOT with zero suit and armor on.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 10:44:02 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 10:45:06 AM
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2007, 10:48:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I'm sure the suit is air conditioned.
Well I have the Aegis 4000 series (model 4120X, to be specific), which does have this feature.
Samus must have the Aegis 3000 series. AC was present but not that great. The freon kept leaking mostly.
Plus it appears that her suit gets blown up every time she goes somewhere anyway, so maybe that further complicates it.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 10:52:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I don't care what the rest of the internetz thinks abt how hawt ZSSamus is, I don't like Nintendo turning Samus into a big breasted, blond haired, barbie doll bimbo, which is in contrast to her original design in Super Metroid and even Fusion.
I didn't say I did either, only that I've seen far too many people with pictures of her in their icons/signatures all over hell to believe that the internet hasn't taken a shine to her.
Bottom line: your average horny teenager will be enticed by a picture of her on the cover of the game, which I'm certain will happen.
Frankly, I'm surprised they included her as well. The whole point of the Metroid games was that Samus was only ever shown to the player if they beat the game as fast as possible. Yeah, it was a cheap T&A ordeal, but seeing her like that was supposed to be some kind of reward for beating the game quickly.
And that flows into my OTHER point that there was NO reason to give Samus an alternative and more revealing costume. I never once recall seeing a thread on a SSB board about how Samus should come out of her suit in the next SSB game and I was stunned to see her in there.
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Hmmm I dunno:
A previous SSB game.
If I wanted to, I could count Eternal Darkness and Geist, which both had far worse than a few pictures of Samus in a bathing suit.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 10:56:10 AM
Post by: Mikintosh on August 09, 2007, 11:10:58 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:12:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: StrellQuote
Originally posted by: PartyBear
I'm sure the suit is air conditioned.
Well I have the Aegis 4000 series (model 4120X, to be specific), which does have this feature.
Samus must have the Aegis 3000 series. AC was present but not that great. The freon kept leaking mostly.
Plus it appears that her suit gets blown up every time she goes somewhere anyway, so maybe that further complicates it.
And let's not forget that Samus' suit is extensively modified, not to mention the addition and inclusion of additional chozo technology.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:14:11 AM
Does Samus' suit have such a function?
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:16:16 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:16:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Oh so 2 games clearly establishes what Nintendo would and wouldn't do. Gotcha.
I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth.
All I'm saying is that it's not like Nintendo to use sex appeal, ESPECIALLY alongside family-friendly icons like Mario and Pikachu.
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 11:17:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Darth Vader's suit supposedly has a urine reception unit that recycles it and converts it into energy.
Does Samus' suit have such a function?
Well, I don't recall any potty breaks in any of the Metroid games. Come to think of it, there aren't any bathrooms, either.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:18:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Oh so 2 games clearly establishes what Nintendo would and wouldn't do. Gotcha.
Sure it does. That's twice 2 M-rated games were made with such content, and that's TWICE Nintendo has published them.
It's definitely a trend.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:20:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Darth Vader's suit supposedly has a urine reception unit that recycles it and converts it into energy.
Does Samus' suit have such a function?
Well, I don't recall any potty breaks in any of the Metroid games. Come to think of it, there aren't any bathrooms, either.
The Chozo must be extremely advanced beings.
Do you think they ate fried chicken?
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:20:55 AM
Quote
Be it through that or ZSS, I'm pointing out that Nintendo never would have had anything like this in a previous game, at all.
So I posted the metroid pictures.
Quote
A previous SSB game.
If I wanted to, I could count Eternal Darkness and Geist, which both had far worse than a few pictures of Samus in a bathing suit.
So I merely said how can 2 games establish what Nintendo would and wouldn't do with the franchise?
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:23:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666 That's twice 2 M-rated games were made with such content
Uhh, no comment...
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 09, 2007, 11:24:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: PartyBearQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Darth Vader's suit supposedly has a urine reception unit that recycles it and converts it into energy.
Does Samus' suit have such a function?
Well, I don't recall any potty breaks in any of the Metroid games. Come to think of it, there aren't any bathrooms, either.
The Chozo must be extremely advanced beings.
Do you think they ate fried chicken?
I don't think beings that just let their waste fall where it may can be described as "advanced."
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:26:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
So I merely said how can 2 games establish what Nintendo would and wouldn't do with the franchise?
Alright, aside from the male fantasies of the eccentric Gunpei Yoko, where has Nintendo included anything even loosely resembling T&A in a game less than M?
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:30:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
So I merely said how can 2 games establish what Nintendo would and wouldn't do with the franchise?
Alright, aside from the male fantasies of the eccentric Gunpei Yoko, where has Nintendo included anything even loosely resembling T&A in a game less than M?
Lol another words "aside from examples you given give me more examples".
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:31:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mikintosh
I being only a casual Metroid guy, wasn't the Zero Suit lifted from an earlier game? It's not like they created it for T&A. And what the big harm? It's a T-rated game and the outfit isn't any worse than that of the average Power Ranger. I for one am glad the games becoming less and less of a guy-and-creature-fest like the first one was, and providing variety in both the characters and their body types. Plus, it's not even her default look, honestly.
The first appearance of the Zero Suit was in Zero Mission I believe, which hasn't been long ago.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:32:38 AM
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:33:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol another words "aside from examples you given give me more examples".
Yes, because my point is the presence of sex appeal in Nintendo games is immensely uncommon and if all you can summon is one meagre example featured at the end of a game made by an eccentric dead Japanese guy, then I don't think you've countered my point at all.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:34:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
So I merely said how can 2 games establish what Nintendo would and wouldn't do with the franchise?
Alright, aside from the male fantasies of the eccentric Gunpei Yoko, where has Nintendo included anything even loosely resembling T&A in a game less than M?
TP was full of it.
Plus i can hijack this thread with an explosion of Daisy images.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:35:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Lol another words "aside from examples you given give me more examples".
Yes, because my point is the presence of sex appeal in Nintendo games is immensely uncommon and if all you can summon is one meagre example featured at the end of a game made by an eccentric dead Japanese guy, then I don't think you've countered my point at all.
You first said NEVER.
You're backtracking to say "immensely uncommon" so my point was very valid to your initial argument.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:36:14 AM
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 09, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:36:58 AM
Also, Kyrstal from SFA. And yeah... Midna is friggin' FEMININE.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:38:19 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:38:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Is the T&A in Brawl even an issue worth discussing? Even if its clearly existent its not as bad as in other games.
It is when they destroy one of my favorite heroines!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:39:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Midna is friggin' FEMININE.
Because feminine is a big cat head that is not proportional with the rest of the body.
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 09, 2007, 11:40:04 AM
I also forgot to mention Peach and Daisy in the Strikers games. They show midriffs, bellybuttons and wear tight shorts. Definitely very different from the main Nintendo games.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:44:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Midna is friggin' FEMININE.
Because feminine is a big cat head that is not proportional with the rest of the body.
(Imp) Midna was a caricature of feminine sexuality, which was even more shocking. To begin with, she's got a STUNNING hourglass figure.
Trueform Midna was a blue supermodel stick-figure in comparison, yuck
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:48:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
TP was full of it.
Falbi doesn't count because he wasn't technically a woman.
Quote
You're backtracking to say "immensely uncommon"
Yes, because I've only ever played the Prime series and I forgot that Gunpei Yoko decided to reward speed completion of the game with a less-clothed Samus.
My point isn't countered by one example.
Nintendo tends to be a very conservative company. Remember that this is the company who insisted that trophy girls in racing games like Off Road on the SNES and Crusin' USA on the N64 be redone with t-shirts instead of bikinis.
I don't expect Nintendo to use sex appeal. They've done it very rarely in their games and I was stunned when ZZS showed up in the initial trailer.
Did you honestly expect them to use sex appeal in this or any other game?
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:49:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: pap64
Pro's right. Midna in her true form was pretty sexually appealing.
I also forgot to mention Peach and Daisy in the Strikers games. They show midriffs, bellybuttons and wear tight shorts. Definitely very different from the main Nintendo games.
Midna=alien esque/mystical beatuy
Samus in Brawl: skin tight uniform/generic video game woman design
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:50:30 AM
Quote
Did you honestly expect them to use sex appeal in this or any other game?
They could, but then again I don't really see a slight butt cheek on a special more or ZSSamus as "sex appeal".
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:50:56 AM
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Originally posted by: Kaironan eccentric dead Japanese guy
Props to his work, but you have to be pretty eccentric to make a game which rewards players for completion time by showing them a more scantily-clad female.
And he's obviously male, Japanese and, well, dead.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:51:06 AM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:52:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Midna is friggin' FEMININE.
Because feminine is a big cat head that is not proportional with the rest of the body.
(Imp) Midna was a caricature of feminine sexuality, which was even more shocking. To begin with, she's got a STUNNING hourglass figure.
Trueform Midna was a blue supermodel stick-figure in comparison, yuck
Imp Midna=pot bellied, stubby legged, huge head, furry, one eye caricature. But if that is what you call feminine sexuality to each their own!
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:53:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But that's EXACTLY IT S_B... it ISN'T sex appeal. It's just Nintendo's art style keeping up with a more skin-friendly image culture! They're keeping up with the kids, not with the adults!
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 11:54:31 AM
Time to drop your pants if you haven't done so already (don't do it at work)
Brawl E3 trailer Samus
Midna (SPOILARZ)
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:55:01 AM
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 11:55:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But that's EXACTLY IT S_B... it ISN'T sex appeal. It's just Nintendo's art style keeping up with a more skin-friendly image culture! They're keeping up with the kids, not with the adults!
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
Okay, this is going a little too far now...
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 11:56:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
They could, but then again I don't really see a slight butt cheek on a special more or ZSSamus as "sex appeal".
I understand that, and I understand why, as such, you wouldn't be as inclined to see it that way.
But can you imagine what your average 15 year old would think when looking at this shot (from the original trailer)?:
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 11:58:10 AM
people are giving kids far too little credit as to how much they know or have seen.
Edit: especially for a 15 yo.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 11:58:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: ArbokQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Kairon
But that's EXACTLY IT S_B... it ISN'T sex appeal. It's just Nintendo's art style keeping up with a more skin-friendly image culture! They're keeping up with the kids, not with the adults!
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
Okay, this is going a little too far now...
No it isn't, they have turned Samus into the typical/generic video game girl character. That to me is destroying a once unique character design when you turn them into a Laura Croft or DOA esque character.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:58:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Imp Midna=pot bellied, stubby legged, huge head, furry, one eye caricature. But if that is what you call feminine sexuality to each their own!
Of course she's all that, she's an abstraction of the feminine form! You have to dig past the layers of labeled-fantasy to see the very basic sameness between Midna and ancient "Venus" figurines that our cro-magnon ancestors used to make.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 11:59:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
*throws up hands defensively*
Hey, I'm not arguing that point. I agree with you for the most part there.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 12:01:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Imp Midna=pot bellied, stubby legged, huge head, furry, one eye caricature. But if that is what you call feminine sexuality to each their own!
Of course she's all that, she's an abstraction of the feminine form! You have to dig past the layers of labeled-fantasy to see the very basic sameness between Midna and ancient "Venus" figurines that our cro-magnon ancestors used to make.
Lol, I think you are starting to reach there.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 12:04:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
*throws up hands defensively*
Hey, I'm not arguing that point. I agree with you for the most part there.
One thing that made Samus special, as others brought up is that she remained a mysterious character. Even the glimpses of her "scantily" clad form added mystique especially in Super Metroid and while not your typical definition of beatiful she showed off a slightly chiseled physique and was attractive. Now she is a video game barbie doll in a skin tight uniform.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 12:08:27 PM
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 12:11:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
I agree. I think that the tradition of showing Samus outside of her suit HAS TO STOP NOW!!!
I like how Prime 1 did, showing her with only her helmet off (Or was that Prime 2?).
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 12:13:58 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:18:21 PM
Ms. Ugly Head Aran.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:18:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
1. ONE. Oh god 2's reveal was horrid.
Yeah she's been Ms. Ugly Head 2 games in a row now.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 12:19:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
Imp Midna=pot bellied, stubby legged, huge head, furry, one eye caricature. But if that is what you call feminine sexuality to each their own!
Of course she's all that, she's an abstraction of the feminine form! You have to dig past the layers of labeled-fantasy to see the very basic sameness between Midna and ancient "Venus" figurines that our cro-magnon ancestors used to make.
Lol, I think you are starting to reach there.
Well excuuuuuuuse me Princess. I don't see what's so wrong about applying archaeological discoveries to modern day theories on human sexuality. &P
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:20:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
By raping original character designs and destroying unique characters.
*throws up hands defensively*
Hey, I'm not arguing that point. I agree with you for the most part there.
One thing that made Samus special, as others brought up is that she remained a mysterious character. Even the glimpses of her "scantily" clad form added mystique especially in Super Metroid and while not your typical definition of beatiful she showed off a slightly chiseled physique and was attractive. Now she is a video game barbie doll in a skin tight uniform.
Agreed. She should be chiseled and skin-tight like CAPTAIN FALCON.
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 09, 2007, 12:27:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
1. ONE. Oh god 2's reveal was horrid.
Yeah she's been Ms. Ugly Head 2 games in a row now.
You have an ugly head.
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 12:28:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
1. ONE. Oh god 2's reveal was horrid.
Yeah she's been Ms. Ugly Head 2 games in a row now.
You have an ugly head.
Soon to be 3.
Post by: wandering on August 09, 2007, 12:32:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
So I merely said how can 2 games establish what Nintendo would and wouldn't do with the franchise?
Alright, aside from the male fantasies of the eccentric Gunpei Yoko, where has Nintendo included anything even loosely resembling T&A in a game less than M?
TP was full of it.
Plus i can hijack this thread with an explosion of Daisy images.
I agree, Nintendo has tried to capture the beauty of the human form in other games besides Brawl.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:33:40 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 09, 2007, 12:38:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KaironQuote
Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenixQuote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
1. ONE. Oh god 2's reveal was horrid.
Yeah she's been Ms. Ugly Head 2 games in a row now.
You have an ugly head.
Soon to be 3.
You will have three, ugly heads?
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 12:41:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
They would think "wow I've seen stuff a million times more sexy than a cover characters ass on the internet."
I've yet to meet a young male who has ever said, "I won't ogle that ass because I've seen better ones."
And good god, what have I done to this thread...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:42:17 PM
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2007, 12:42:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Good god, what have I done to this thread...
Don't worry, the next update will purge the thread of its current topic... always does.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 12:45:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
They would think "wow I've seen stuff a million times more sexy than a cover characters ass on the internet."
If you honestly believe this, then I'm not the one giving kids too much credit.
Good god, what have I done to this thread...
The internet changed many things for kids lol. Besides at the age of 15 you're a teenager and have probably already seen worse than a covered ass.
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2007, 12:47:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: MashiroQuote
Originally posted by: Smash_BrotherQuote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
They would think "wow I've seen stuff a million times more sexy than a cover characters ass on the internet."
If you honestly believe this, then I'm not the one giving kids too much credit.
Good god, what have I done to this thread...
The internet changed many things for kids lol. Besides at the age of 15 you're a teenager and have probably already seen worse than a covered ass.
Read my edit...
Bottom line (no pun intended): boys don't stop looking at additional women just because they've seen ones they consider more attractive.
And the underlying point is still a subjective one: you don't consider ZSS attractive. That's great, but there are many, many people who do and I'm talking about them and not you because, odds are, they'll be able to buy more copies of SSBB collectively than you will alone.
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 12:49:19 PM
Post by: Mashiro on August 09, 2007, 12:53:05 PM
Quote
And the underlying point is still a subjective one: you don't consider ZSS attractive. That's great, but there are many, many people who do and I'm talking about them and not you because, odds are, they'll be able to buy more copies of SSBB collectively than you will alone.
It's not just that it's that the whole point is this isn't adding sex appeal to the game as a SELLING POINT. Yeah the designs may be more "sexy" in some peoples eyes but it isn't being done to make it a selling point.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 12:53:34 PM
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2007, 01:04:34 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2007, 01:17:06 PM
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 09, 2007, 01:35:50 PM
Have you guys ever beaten any Metroid game? Ever? Or have you ever read the OFFICIAL Nintendo comics? Samus is hot. Deal with it. Having Zero Suit Samus isn't "raping" a character or even over-sexualizing her.
Post by: S-U-P-E-R on August 09, 2007, 02:21:40 PM
