Author Topic: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)  (Read 31372 times)

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« on: March 01, 2013, 10:30:35 AM »
This is the official forum thread for the RetroActive discussion of Ys Book I&II. All posts here will be considered for use on the podcast when we talk about the game for an upcoming episode.


Ys Book I&II is an action-adventure game similar to 2D Zelda, but the combat is notably different. In the Turbo CD version (available on Wii Virtual Console), there is no need to swing a sword. Instead, your character (Adol) stabs enemies by running into them at an offset, so that their own weapons don't hurt him in the impact. The game also has magic and equipment, not to mention a classic story that features FMV animation and one of the earliest examples of voice acting in a console game. One of the game's most defining characteristics is the exuberant heavy rock soundtrack enabled by the original CD format.


There are also versions available for DS, PSP, and PC (including Steam).
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 01:22:17 PM »
Based on some issues friends had when the game first released on VC, here are a few tips to make the beginning smoother for folks who have never played this before:

-When you buy equipment, make sure to actually equip it.

-You can easily make enough money in the first five minutes to afford better equipment, which will let you jump into the game without any grinding: Go to the shop and buy the Sapphire Ring, then take it to the bar and sell it to the man there for a hefty profit. You'll also get enough EXP to level up.

-To illustrate what Jonny said about the combat:
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 01:33:42 PM »
@noname2200
 
Thanks for the useful info. I'm off to buy it now. I will perhaps have some impressions tomorrow.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 01:36:21 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Pandareus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 09:47:25 AM »
I was definitely bumping into enemies without a sword and a shield at the beginning. I had checked the equipment screen and pressed buttons but it looked like it was simply showing me what I had equipped. I didn't think of pressing Right.  :-\

The whole offset thing... I'm kind of bumping into enemies head on without receiving damage, as far as I can tell. Not that I could come at the enemies at an angle, the game seems to be going at double speed for some reason, it's super fast.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 09:26:28 AM »
Whatever you guys do, don't press start and select together. I was trying to see if there was a way for me skip NPC text and accidentally pressed both buttons together and it reset the game. luckily I had just saved the game.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 03:09:26 PM »
I was getting annoyed by the lack of any in game maps, so after a bit of searching I found a fantastic little guide which gives loads of information on items and also includes maps for each area. Very useful if you can't work where the hell you are.
 
http://www.vnotesonline.com/ys-book-i-ii
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Offline xcwarrior

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 06:02:12 PM »
I was getting annoyed by the lack of any in game maps, so after a bit of searching I found a fantastic little guide which gives loads of information on items and also includes maps for each area. Very useful if you can't work where the hell you are.
 
http://www.vnotesonline.com/ys-book-i-ii

I downloaded the game today on the VC, and gotta say I like what I'm playing so far. And everybody, I would have to say although the game isn't exactly confusing, the maps provided by the link above are a great help.

I find it interesting with the whole attack mechanic being just running into enemies at an angle. Made me think of The Last Story, which is the only game I can think of where you just move at an enemy to attack them. Leveling up at least for the time being is quick and easy. I just went outside, grinded for one song on my mp3 player, and got the money I needed for the initial weapons.

Also, was shocked to hear like a narrator, and voice acting! When you see a game that is 16-bit, you do not expect voice acting.

Glad this game was picked, will continue on for sure. So far it's way better than the game I just finished, Metro 2033, which was also sorts of mediocre FPS non-fun.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 07:25:48 PM »
Legacy of Ys is already on my DS list, so perhaps I'll take this opportunity to bump it up and buy it. There's actually a GameStop fairly close by that has a copy according to their website, and I was thinking of calling to ask if it includes the original case and manual. But then I realised that I have no idea how to pronounce "Ys" so that they would know what I'm talking about. Is it pronounced like the letter Y but plural? Or is it something more abstract like "eese" as in geese?

Offline Pandareus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 07:47:51 PM »
Ease.

Offline xcwarrior

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 08:41:18 PM »
Got through the Shine lair/dungeon. The boss of the area is extremely tough. I lost to it like 20-25 time easy. Glad this game lets you save just about anywhere. Crazy part was I thought I was overleveled going into the fight. Guess not.

Though you do seem to gather money pretty fast. I should be able to upgrade my weapons/armor now with all the gold I collected before the next area.

And the music in this game really rocks.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 11:44:36 PM »
Pro Tip: You can stand still on the overworld to fill up your health. This also works in the Shrine Entrance, after you beat that green wizard.

Another Pro Tip: Save often, but only in safe areas.

Yet Another Pro Tip: You can earn 2000+ gold very fast in the shrine. It's worth the trek back to Minea Town to buy a new sword, armor, and/or shield. You can also easily complete the Sapphire Ring quest for a small profit (and maybe a bit of experience).
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 02:02:54 AM »
I kind of get the same satisfaction from this game that I did from Faxanadu. Which is to say, it scratches that itch of feeling hopelessly exposed one minute and then feeling overpowered the next. So far the equipment and item upgrades have been coming thick and fast, which seems to be the real draw here. I do appear, however, to have already filled in most of the equipment and inventory slots, so I have to wonder whether or not I'm about to hit a cliff in terms of upgrades. I hope not, because the story sure isn't doing anything for me right now. Upgrading Adol and gaining levels has been the fun part for me.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 02:07:02 AM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline daverhodus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 09:40:59 AM »
I love the Turbo Duo version of Ys Books I & II. I got stuck at the giant Bat boss. I think I missed something along the way because I was doing basically no damage.

Faxanadu is a great game too, Pixelated Pixies. I compare Faxanadu to Dark Souls because of how grim and unrelenting it is. The music is amazing, which always helps.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2013, 10:44:10 AM »
Faxanadu is a great game too, Pixelated Pixies. I compare Faxanadu to Dark Souls because of how grim and unrelenting it is. The music is amazing, which always helps.

It is, indeed , a great game. It's probably one of my favourite NES games.
 
I need to try Dark Souls at some point, because it really sounds like something I'd be in to. Unfortunately, I only currently own a Wii and 3DS and therefore haven't had the opportunity.
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2013, 11:08:18 AM »
Since neither of you mentioned it yet: Faxanadu is made by the same developer (Falcom) as the Ys series. The similarities are no coincidence! But Faxanadu is much closer to Ys III than Book I&II.
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Offline ejamer

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2013, 11:31:38 AM »
Really want to participate but no gaming budget right now means no access to the game, and my memories of playing back in the day are too hazy to make any useful comment.


However, wanted to chime in with two semi-related thoughts:

1.  Faxanadu (NES) really is a fantastic 2D action/RPG. I had no idea that game was also developed by Falcom until Jonny mentioned it, but can totally see a connection.
2. It's worth mentioning that liking or disliking Ys Book I&II shouldn't determine if you will like other games in the series.  Different games in the Ys series sometimes offer very different play styles.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2013, 12:19:14 PM »
Since neither of you mentioned it yet: Faxanadu is made by the same developer (Falcom) as the Ys series. The similarities are no coincidence! But Faxanadu is much closer to Ys III than Book I&II.

Head blown, lol. I'm embarrased to say that it's been so long since I played Faxanadu that I hadn't even realised it was the same company.  :-[
 
That they're made by the same developer totally makes sense, though. As you say, that's clearly no coincidence.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 12:26:53 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2013, 12:26:57 PM »
Actually, Falcom did not develop Faxanadu, they licensed it out to Hudson Soft to develop.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2013, 12:28:50 PM »
So it is a coincidence?!
 
Now I'm just confused.
 
*...goes back to playing the game.*
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2013, 12:33:36 PM »
I am having a hard time finding out what role Falcom had in the game. They either just licensed it out to Hudson Soft, or they co-developed the game with them.

I would love to play the game, but like ejamer I dont have the funds to buy the game.
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Offline daverhodus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2013, 01:12:39 PM »

It's been a few years since I listened to it, but I think this Retronauts Falcom podcast touches on Faxanadu.

http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8982185

I'm going to listen to it again this week. Falcom is very interesting to me.

Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2013, 01:48:23 PM »

The whole offset thing... I'm kind of bumping into enemies head on without receiving damage, as far as I can tell. Not that I could come at the enemies at an angle, the game seems to be going at double speed for some reason, it's super fast.

This version of the game is probably the fastest, so the developers seem to have compromised by letting you run head-on into enemies that are a bit below your level without suffering damage (just don't stop moving, or they'll hurt you). Just don't try that with enemies you're encountering for the first time: you may have noticed by now, especially with the bosses, that you can die very quickly in this game.

Offline Pandareus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2013, 09:52:31 PM »
This version of the game is probably the fastest, so the developers seem to have compromised by letting you run head-on into enemies that are a bit below your level without suffering damage (just don't stop moving, or they'll hurt you). Just don't try that with enemies you're encountering for the first time: you may have noticed by now, especially with the bosses, that you can die very quickly in this game.

Yeah, I'm now against the vampire bat boss, and he kills me way too quickly. I think I'm approaching him from the right angle, and I do dish out some damage, but not enough before he kills me. It's... not very fun. Too bad because I've been digging the game up to this point.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 01:56:57 AM »
The boss battles generally have been the weakest part of the game for me so far. There really doesn't seem to be much strategy to them (apart from simply leveling up), and if there is any strategy then the game does a terrible job of imparting that to the player. Every boss I've beat in the game has felt like luck.
 
Still digging it though. The fact that I can save right beside where the boss will spawn certainly helps reduce the frustration (I'm looking at you La Mulana!).
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 02:01:24 PM »
I agree with both of you. The boss battles in Ys I generally suck: to this day I'm not sure why I sometimes win and sometimes lose. The good news is that they're rare (five or six total, I think), and that they become much improved in Ys II.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 04:48:15 PM »
I just finished Book I today (My Wii suggests a cumulative play time of around 8 hours, although I'm pretty sure around 40 minutes of that was spent going in a circle at one point, lol) . I wasn't sure that I had in fact (no pun intended) started the second game until I went to the save screen and realised that all my save slots simply said 'Ys I', indicating that I was now in the sequel.
 
It's actually kind of cool, because the second game starts immediately after the finale of the first. I won't go into any specifics, but there's a scene at the end which I thought was pretty awesome. It actually got me excited to start Book II, which I'll probably do tomorrow at some point.
 
Overall, I thought part 1 was pretty enjoyable. My take away thoughts were as follows.
 
  • Given that the game's primary goal is to explore floors and levels of dungeons, the omission of any on screen indicator for which floor you're on is kind of weird. I found myself saving alot simply to see which floor I was on.
  • Volume Toba is such a let down after reading the first volume. Volume Dabbie really brought the series back on track though.  :P:
  • Everything in this game (corridors, stairs, walkways etc) is needlessly long. Yet the game is surprisingly short.
  • Grinding the hell out of the guys who break through the wall Kool-Aid man style on floor 20 of Darm Tower was really useful.
  • Going all the way up to the top of Darm Tower only to have to go
    all the way back down to floor 11 to get the Blue Amulet was kind of
    lame.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 05:57:59 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 05:35:01 PM »
I'd forgotten just how long the last dungeon of Ys I is. It's at least a third of the game, and the backtracking makes me suspect the developers were running low on time and realized they still needed to pad the game. Fortunately, the music's pretty great (not that that's a surprise: the game's soundtrack in generally is extremely high quality).

Offline Pandareus

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 10:44:45 PM »
I just canNOT get past this damn vampire bat boss. I can't. I cannot damage him withouth him damaging me, and he's got way more health. And grinding yields 1 xp per kill, and I need 200+ kills to level up. This is horrible.

Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 12:23:55 AM »
That boss and the first boss were the two that gave me the most trouble.

Do you have all the Silver equipment? The timing is tricky: he's only really vulnerable for that first second after he forms. The way I get through is to time it so I rush vertically into him the second he finishes forming. Take two or three steps, then immediately pivot. The key is that his arms have to be up. If it looks like you're going to be even a split second late, abort and wait for the next go around. Patience is the key there, which is unfortunate because his attacks hit hard...

The good news is his defense is pathetic, so four or five successful attacks is all it takes.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2013, 02:08:48 AM »
I just canNOT get past this damn vampire bat boss. I can't. I cannot damage him withouth him damaging me, and he's got way more health. And grinding yields 1 xp per kill, and I need 200+ kills to level up. This is horrible.

I agree that the boss battles in this game are terrible, and that particular boss was the hardest in the game for me. The strategy that I tried to use with that boss was to rush through him just before he changes into the bats. There seems to be a very very small window of opportunity just before he transforms where he breaks into little balls, and I think that is when you're supposed to rush him. That's as close to a strategy as I was able to get, and even then it took some grinding and like 7 or 8 attempts. On my last attempt the bosses health pretty much halved with one rush and that gave me enough of an advantage to win. I have no idea, though, if this is an actual strategy or if I was just lucky.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 02:12:21 AM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2013, 06:09:04 PM »
I have to say, having started Book II today, the lack of any sort of map feature is becoming a huge problem, particularly where I am currently which is the mine area (the first real area you explore in book II).
 
Not all games designed around exploration require maps but when the level design is this generic, indistinct, and, dare I say it, bad, then a map truely is necessary. Every cave I enter leads me into another room which looks exactly like the previous 6 caves I entered, each of which have multiple doors leading to yet more nondescript caves. It's actually kind of intolerable. Then there's the added frustration of knowing that if you do get turned around or lost, and fail to find a certain room, then you might very well miss a crucial item or fail to trigger something which is required in order to progress. All of which would be alleviated by the simple inclusion of some sort of map feature. I appreciate that maps probably weren't in a lot of games back in 1989, but this game truely did need it.
 
The core of the game (leveling up and upgrading equipment) is actually really fun. It's just that the needlessly labyrinthian dungeons and terrible boss battles rear their heads every now and again to ruin that fun.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2013, 02:21:14 AM »
So, I just beat Book I. I obviously had to use a guide for a few parts (which I'll get into in a minute), but I'm into Book II now.


First off, I love the fact that you can save anywhere. There are a few horrible moments of annoying backtracking, and some of the dungeons are incredibly long. So, not having to worry about save points, like I was expecting to, is a nice change of pace from other games from this era.


Another thing I absolutely love is the heal ring. It's a genuine life saver. Having the ability to heal yourself at any time makes the game much more manageable. It's great to be able to put on the heal ring right outside a boss door and save there. Then if (when) you die to the boss, you're right back into the fight with full health in no more than 5 seconds. It makes the bad parts of the game much more bearable.


The bad parts, I think, are the maze-like level design, the backtracking, and not having any kind of map. This is the main reason why I had to look up guides for the game The worst offender, obviously, is the Mine. Paths snake out in every direction, and you can only see what's right in front of you? Ugh... Add to this the fact that certain main storyline items (harmonica) are acquired by finding them in some random chest. The game makes you search every nook and cranny of the area, but doesn't give you any indication of whether you've already searched an area or not.


Finally, I'm surprised that a lot of you guys didn't like the boss battles. I felt like they were the best parts of the game because, unlike other enemies, the bosses actually have different move-sets, and you actually have to approach them in unique ways. Sure, you still just have to run into them, but it's when and how you run into them that matters. Every other enemy in the game was just the same thing with a different coat of paint: steamroll, rinse, repeat.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 04:53:57 AM by Fjurbanski »
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2013, 03:49:35 PM »
While the boss fights are a little more involved than regular fights, the issue I have with them is that the additional complexity generally isn't that well done. Most of the time it boils down to running away while the boss is invincible, then briefly charging in during the limited vulnerability periods.

To their credit though, the fights are always quick: I usually win or die in under a minute, at least in Ys I. And while imperfect, I find this approach to be a refreshing alternative to the usual "epic RPG boss fight": the final bosses in I and II do feel epic, but because they're fast and challenging, rather than because the boss has enough health to drag on forever.

Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2013, 11:46:07 PM »
While the boss fights are a little more involved than regular fights, the issue I have with them is that the additional complexity generally isn't that well done. Most of the time it boils down to running away while the boss is invincible, then briefly charging in during the limited vulnerability periods.


Well yeah, but what else do you do when your primary means of damage is to throw yourself at the enemy, always risking damage to yourself every time? With combat like this, every fight will boil down to dodging the thing that can hurt you until you have the chance to hurt it. Which to me sounds like almost every boss fight in almost every video game ever, so what's the real problem?


The boss fights in this game aren't amazing by any means, but I think to say that they suck is too harsh. Especially when the rest of the fighting in the game is boring at best, and mind-numbingly monotonous at worst. I think the bigger issue is that the combat itself is bad, not the bosses. Take any of these bosses, and put them in a 2D zelda game, and i doubt we'd see anybody complaining.


So, with generally bad level design (with a few exceptions), egregious back-tracking, and enemy variation equal to 1, I do feel that the boss battles were the highlight of the game. They took the most strategy (what little there was) and were a good challenge, while having the least amount of annoyance possible, since you could save right outside with full health. Also, they had the most variation and the most character out of anything in the game. No enemy or NPC is as interesting or memorable as the bosses.


Were they amazing? No, I don't think the combat system doesn't really allow for that. Were they terrible, or the worst part of the game? Not to me. The exact opposite in fact.
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Offline Dropkik

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 09:47:11 AM »
I don't know why this game is called Ys, it should be called RAMMING SPEED: The Game.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 12:44:04 PM »
While the boss fights are a little more involved than regular fights, the issue I have with them is that the additional complexity generally isn't that well done. Most of the time it boils down to running away while the boss is invincible, then briefly charging in during the limited vulnerability periods.


Well yeah, but what else do you do when your primary means of damage is to throw yourself at the enemy, always risking damage to yourself every time? With combat like this, every fight will boil down to dodging the thing that can hurt you until you have the chance to hurt it. Which to me sounds like almost every boss fight in almost every video game ever, so what's the real problem?

Let's be honest with ourselves: most games have more complex combat systems and boss battles. The boss battles in other Ys games, even in Ys II, are more complex. Consequently, those battles are a bit more involved than the extreme simplicity of the bosses in Ys I. I generally like the boss fights in, say, Ys VI, or Oath in Felghana. I even think the boss fights in Ys II are generally okay. I mostly bear through the boss fights in Ys I.

I think where we differ is that I'm generally okay with the combat system in general. It's fast and simple, but unless you're overlevelled it requires you to pay attention and use your reflexes. It's not the greatest system ever made, but it works for me. Admittedly it does wear out its welcome after a while, but then the game's quite short, and Ys II adds a bit more meat by introducing magic into the mix.

The problem is that, as you say, it doesn't make for fun bosses. Although I'm inclined to think that, with a bit of creativity, they could have improved on those. They could have made the enemies' patterns more complex, or involved environmental factors, or made the objective to dodge the bosses' attacks while attempting to reach certain checkpoints scattered throughout a large room, or something more involved than a single boss in a single-screen empty room.

I like the game, so it's clearly not a deal breaker, but I would say that the boss fights are the game's biggest achilles heel.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2013, 01:10:25 PM »
I could be convinced that the boss battles aren't inherently badly designed. The problem with the bosses though seems to be that they aren't conducive to Y's very particular style of combat. If the boss battles had more indicators or feedback to the player I think that would go some way towards resolving the problems that people are having with them. Jokes are often made about the fact that boss battles in video games often have glowing sections on their bodies, or giant eyes, or an exposed underbelly etc. The use of those types of indicators are perhaps a little trite, but at least they feedback information to the player. When games fail to provide that information they can become really frustrating for some people. I think this issue is exacerbated in the case of Y's because there's so little strategy to the combat that it often feels like you have no control over whether or not you win or lose. It can, therefore, feel like the boss battles are to reduced to 'level up to win'.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 02:26:18 PM »
Quote
The problem is that, as you say, it doesn't make for fun bosses. Although I'm inclined to think that, with a bit of creativity, they could have improved on those. They could have made the enemies' patterns more complex, or involved environmental factors, or made the objective to dodge the bosses' attacks while attempting to reach certain checkpoints scattered throughout a large room, or something more involved than a single boss in a single-screen empty room.


But they DO do that, and for a game from 1990, they do enough to keep me interested. I'll put it in spoiler tags for people who haven't gotten there yet, but...


The very first boss in the game has environmental factors. The boss itself won't hurt you at all, but the fire pillars will. So you dodge the fire pillars and attack the boss whenever he appears.


The two masks is a very interesting boss battle. They both have protective orbs surrounding them, and you can only hurt the orange one. So you attempt to attack the orange one, while at the same time dodging the orbs. And then the masks will switch places. Sure, they're patterns aren't that complex, because they're symmetrical, but let's be honest, I think people would be complaining a lot more if that boss battle were overly complex. Then it really would be very hard.


The last boss in the game is plenty complex and gets even more complex as the fight continues. Every time you hit him part of the arena is taken away, giving you less room to maneuver. And first there's one orb trying to attack you, and later there's two. Once again, if the pattern the boss followed wasn't at least somewhat predictable, the boss would be a lot worse.


Quote
If the boss battles had more indicators or feedback to the player I think that would go some way towards resolving the problems that people are having with them. Jokes are often made about the fact that boss battles in video games often have glowing sections on their bodies, or giant eyes, or an exposed underbelly etc. The use of those types of indicators are perhaps a little trite, but at least they feedback information to the player. When games fail to provide that information they can become really frustrating for some people.


I kind of agree and disagree with this. Yes, the bosses had little indication of where to hit them, but that's because, for most of them, their entire body is where you need to hit them. Its just a matter of when. There are a few exception like the centipede boss, because he is attacking with a part of his body, therefore you must attack the part of his body that is not attacking you. But even then, its pretty obvious that you should not run into the giant pincers trying to bite you, but instead hit his backside But most of the bosses do not attack you with their bodies, but with something external, meaning whenever you do get the chance to attack their bodies you know you can do it without getting hurt. And whenever you land a successful hit, the screen flashes, you here that "hit" sound, and you see their life bar go down. That's a pretty obvious indication that you're hitting them at the right time.


Now, this does take some time and some experimentation, but that's not a bad thing, is it? Besides, at least this game encourages experimentation. Like I mentioned earlier, if you have the heal ring and save right outside the boss door, then you can fight the boss over and over without wasting any time. You don't have to save at a save point and slog all the way back to the boss door. That would discourage experimentation. With the system Ys I has, you can try several different approaches without being harshly punished for it.


So, do the boss fights have some issues? Sure, but I think they do plenty of things both outside of the fights and within the fights themselves to leverage those problems. In the end it makes for boss fights that are no better or worse than boss fights in any other game. And as far as this game is concerned, I find them way more fun then running around poor, maze-like level design, steam-rolling enemies with no thought.

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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 02:37:37 PM »
@Fjurbanski
 
You make some good points. I can see where you're coming from, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I simply find the exploration and levelling up to be the most engaging part of the game (although as I've said in previous posts, even exploration has it's issues given the lack of any map feature). The problems I have with the bosses are alleviated by some of the game's features (Saving anywhere for example) but that doesn't make them any more enjoyable to me.
 
It's definitely a interesting game. I'm constantly conflicted while playing it, lol.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 02:44:08 PM »
It's definitely a interesting game. I'm constantly conflicted while playing it, lol.


Oh, me too, definitely. I rag on the level design, but there are certain parts that I think are really well done. I like this, I don't like that, etc.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2013, 04:26:34 PM »
The use for the Misty Ice Drops? :confused;
 
I never would have tried that had I not referred to a guide. Some times games expect me to make these leaps of logic that I'm just not capable of making.
 


It can freeze air into ice? Surely it's the water in the air that's frozen into ice? And if it can freeze the water in the air into ice, thus creating a solid platform to walk on, then why can't it freeze the trickling waterfall into ice so that I can just walk up it? Also, if it can freeze air into Ice, then how come it only works in that once specific spot? Why can't I make platforms between all other gaps also? How was I to know that I had to use it in that specific spot?

 
See what I mean? My mind just doesn't seem to speak 'game developer'.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:37:16 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2013, 05:27:51 PM »
Yeah, that part has a lot of factors to it.


I think the mindset of the devs was that the player would get to part where the bridge is needed first and then realize that they couldn't get across without some kind of item they don't have yet. Because the gap where the bridge goes does have a slightly different design that is only seen in that area. Which is probably to draw the players eye there, making them see that something is off. Then later you'd find the item and say, "ah ha!"


So I get what they were going for, but that's definitely one area where they could do things better. For instance, have more than one area that you cannot cross without the item so that the player actively notices the trend of needing to make bridges. Maybe have giant icicles with water dripping from them over the are where the bridge should go. That's just a couple of ideas.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2013, 05:49:59 PM »
I can also see where you're coming from, Fjubanski, but at the end of the day I just feel unsatisfied by Ys I's bosses. I don't share many of the other complaints about the game, not even the lack of a map (not that I'd turn my nose up at one, but aside from the caves at the start of II I don't find the areas large or complex enough to get lost for long), but the boss fights always bugged me. The final fight was the only one that I really appreciated; like I said before, it feels "epic" without being lengthy.

Admittedly, the music may play a large role in that. I do love this game's soundtrack...



Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2013, 05:58:29 PM »
I don't share many of the other complaints about the game, not even the lack of a map (not that I'd turn my nose up at one, but aside from the caves at the start of II I don't find the areas large or complex enough to get lost for long

Yeah, since I've got past that first section of the second game (the mines) the two areas after that have been effortless. It seems to be another example of the game being uneven in spots. That first mine area absolutely needs a map. The two areas after that (I can't speak to the remainder of the game) are relatively straight forward and don't need a map. It seems like an odd way to kick off your game.
 
I do love this game's soundtrack

I've had this song in my head for the last week. It's incredible.
 

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 06:19:58 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2013, 06:03:51 PM »
Book II's level design is certainly better than Book I's, and doesn't need a map system nearly as much.


I don't even think the Mine in Book II was that bad, even though it did have a lot of dead ends. The worst part of that area to me was that if there was a doorway on the side or top of the screen, you could see it. But if there was a doorway on the bottom, depending on where it is, it just blended into the wall and I couldn't see it. So I couldn't find areas simply because there was a door right in front of my face that I couldn't see.


But aside from that, it's manageable without a map.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2013, 07:04:36 PM »
GameStop was a no go, I'll have to sit this one out. :(

Offline noname2200

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2013, 01:24:27 PM »
That's too bad: not only would it have been nice to get more voices in this discussion, but the DS (and PC/NES etc.) version is noticeably different than the Turbografx version the majority of us seem to be playing. It would have been interesting to hear how the altered mechanics affected the gameplay.

Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »
If I can I want to get a version of this and finish the first part by next week before listening to the podcast.


Apparently the DS version isn't very good, so is the PSP version on PSN available for purchase on the Vita, and how does it compare to the Steam version, gameplay-wise, graphics-wise and price-wise?

Offline Ibogaine_Effect

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2013, 02:23:21 PM »
First post on the forum, I finished Book I last night on the Wii VC.

It's a really strange game. I'll have more comments/observations later when I have more time, but it's kinda striking how small the adventure is. I don't know to what extent Book I is just a prelude to Book II, but the entire game here consists of two small towns, a tiny field that doesn't even qualify as an overworld, two medium dungeons and one big-ass dungeon. And that one big-ass dungeon is literally half the total play time. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but the pacing/structure of the game is just really really weird, there's never a sense that you're really building or advancing to anything, you just do some odd jobs then go at this tower and that's it.

Darm Tower is really interesting from an art perspective. It's cool the way they try to represent the 3D structure of the tower in 2D backgrounds. It doesn't really work and I'm certain the layout doesn't make any physical sense at all (it doesn't help that you go in doors facing up and out them facing down so there's no way to make any sense of the layout), but they do some neat tricks with the parts outside the tower to convey the 3D structure. It took me a while to figure out what they were trying to show, and it probably would have been helpful if we'd had one of the ending cutscenes showing the outside of the tower BEFORE starting the dungeon just to give some hint of what they were going for. I always think this kind of thing is interesting though, the kinda crazy solutions 2D artists had to come up with to make sensible 3D spaces in their games.

Final quick observation, there's definitely some adventure game logic going on that's not always actually logical. Though I tried to do as much of the game as possible without a guide, there were times when I had to consult one because there are just certain things you have to do in certain orders that don't seem to make much sense. To the game's credit, they do give you some good hints and in retrospect you can kinda sorta see how they tried to suggest the order to you, but often times you have to have a certain random item in a certain place to trigger events and it seems kinda random. Like, how are you supposed to know that a mid-game boss can only be damaged by a certain sword if you don't even know that sword exists yet and you have to completely exit the dungeon to get the sword? That kind of stuff, I'd say I'm just soft now but I consulted guides to beat the original LoZ back in the day too... there's a thin line between overly obtuse game design and outright handholding, this game is on the former side a bit and I'm glad I have the internet to help me out. FYI, if you haven't checked gamefaqs for this game you should at some point, the guy who wrote the guide for this wrote it sorta like a story, telling what Adol does in a third person past tense perspective, it's corny but kinda cool.

Well, that was a longish first post. Like I said, maybe more comments to come, hope these are a good start.

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2013, 03:09:36 PM »
@Ibogaine_Effect
 
Great post mate. I totally agree about it being interesting how the game designers tried to portray a physical 3D environment, with insides and outsides. It was not completely successful, but it was certainly interesting.
 
I've been really digging these games so far, despite having used a guide on several occasions. I've tried to take a page from Dr Mett's books and have used a guide for those sections where I'm not having fun. Seems to be working so far. I don't, however, like playing a game with the guide open. That kind of kills the enjoyment for me.
 
As I said previously, I'm now in Book II and am enjoying it quite a bit more than the first game. I've come across a demon called 'Keith'... So, yeah...10 out of 10.
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Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2013, 06:33:17 PM »
Yeah, it made me laugh a little the first time i ran into those circular paths on the outside of Darm Tower (or is it on the inside, and it's hollow? Idk). I walked to the right and saw one door. My natural way of handling this is to say, "Ok, there's one door, but the path keeps going. Let's see how far this goes and then come back to this door later." So I keep going and find a second door. I go in that one and I'm back in the same room I just left. It was kind of funny, but it did get the point across that those paths go in circles. Which is probably the best a game like this could do.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2013, 07:01:01 PM »
My natural way of handling this is to say, "Ok, there's one door, but the path keeps going. Let's see how far this goes and then come back to this door later."

Yup. I do the exact same thing. When it comes to exploring areas I always have the following rules to make sure I don't miss anything.
 
1 - Explore every wall and corner of the area you're in before going through any doors or ascending/descending any stairs.
 
2 - In the first instance, always explore areas by moving anticlockwise, left to right, and bottom to top.
 
3 - If you are in a position to complete a sidequest, collect an item, or defeat a boss then do so before moving on and exploring other areas. Being in a position to do something is usually the game's way of telling you to do it.
 
4 - Speak to everyone. Try to memorise faces, names, items, myths, legends, prophecies and places regardless of how banal they may appear to be.
 
5 - If you reach a seeming dead end, experiment with every single item or piece of equipment that you have even if it does not make sense. Game designers are far from infallible.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:18:51 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline Ibogaine_Effect

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2013, 08:12:24 PM »
If you reach a seeming dead end, experiment with every single item or piece of equipment that you have even if it does not make sense. Game designers are far from infallible.

Yeah, that was where my mistake was. Or rather, where I failed to account for the developers mistakes, depending on how you look at it. I got to a point where I just figured I didn't have the right item when it turned out I just wasn't equipping it right. It's strange, there are a lot of single use items in this game.

Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2013, 08:41:38 PM »
Is it normal that when I walk up to a Roda tree (without seed) it fades out, plays music for a split second and fades back in with nothing happening? That's on the Steam version. It seems like there are some weird bugs.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 10:43:13 PM by Rodrigue »

Offline Fjurbanski

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2013, 10:31:50 PM »
3 - If you are in a position to complete a sidequest, collect an item, or defeat a boss then do so before moving on and exploring other areas. Being in a position to do something is usually the game's way of telling you to do it.


With that, I generally do the opposite. I'm always afraid that if I do anything that I know the game is telling me to do first, then it might force me into a situation where I can't explore further.


Kind of why I hated the mines in Book I so much. I would get to an area that I knew was the way to progress, but I was never sure that I had fully explored the area I was on.


Also, no, that Roda Tree issue never happened with me (Wii VC).
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2013, 12:05:46 AM »
I bought the Wii VC version of this when it was new, and never really got into it.  I started over last night almost beat the second boss to get the third book, then resumed this evening to finish the boss in the mines and start my way up the tower.

I'm currently stuck on the boss on L8.  None of the rings seems to have any effect when fighting this boss, so it seems to be an endurance event .... can I play for 5-10 minutes without getting hit? Even with the silver sword equipped, hitting him only does about 5% damage where if I get hit once, I take about a 35% hit.

I've been following a guide from gamefaqs with maps to help me along, and this is what the guide has to say about this boss:

Quote
This boss battle is actually quite simple to get through. ... It is a quick and easy battle, but the blades will cause a lot of damage, so be careful not to get hit by them!

I read that and thought "F-you guide".

I think this is my stop point.  It's one thing to die a lot while you learn things to get better for next time.  But there is nothing to learn here.  It's just a case of "don't get hit for 5 minutes", which is easier said than done.
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Offline pPatko

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #56 on: March 15, 2013, 01:39:32 AM »
Nygtilger.  Eff that guy.  How was I to know I needed to have the long sword to do damage?  And how was I to know that I should grind to level 10 in order to not have it repeatedly ass rape me?  Anyways, still enjoying the game.  The music is fantastic.  I wish I had the opportunity to play this when it was current.  Now I'm trying to rush through it, partially because of Retroactive and partially cuz I'm a grown ass man with not enough time to play games!  :(
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Offline Crimm

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2013, 11:17:44 AM »
I hate to say it, but you gotta grind a two or so levels.
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Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2013, 01:47:12 PM »
Does the Power Ring change how much damage you deal vs the vampire? I tried it and it didn't seem to make a difference. I still beat it in the end but the difficulty curve there is kind of obnoxious. Gets better in the tower I guess.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 03:55:12 PM by Rodrigue »

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2013, 04:31:08 PM »
Does the Power Ring change how much damage you deal vs the vampire? I tried it and it didn't seem to make a difference. I still beat it in the end but the difficulty curve there is kind of obnoxious. Gets better in the tower I guess.
  I think the effect of the rings don't matter on boss fights.  They only matter against the trash enemies.
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Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2013, 05:32:14 PM »
Seems silly that these items are said to "double your strength" or "reduce all damage" then.

I just finished the game and for me the most annoying parts were the final boss and the forced backtracking 10 floors back. Still was enjoyable overall, took me 8 hours.

And I don't get your issue with the F8 boss if you haven't beaten it yet, are you under level 10 or missing some silver equipment? It took me maybe 3 tries when I did it and it was 100% my fault for standing right in the blades.

  • Given that the game's primary goal is to explore floors and levels of dungeons, the omission of any on screen indicator for which floor you're on is kind of weird. I found myself saving alot simply to see which floor I was on.
In the Steam version I could press the L button (on a Gamepad) to toggle an overlay that included my stats, enemy stats known to the bestiary, and the current area (including floor if in a dungeon).

  • Grinding the hell out of the guys who break through the wall Kool-Aid man style on floor 20 of Darm Tower was really useful.
I don't understand the point of that, unless it is the DS version since it has 24 levels instead of 10 (or maybe my version's the weird one).
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 05:50:41 PM by Rodrigue »

Offline llaffer

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2013, 05:58:25 PM »
And I don't get your issue with the F8 boss if you haven't beaten it yet, are you under level 10 or missing some silver equipment? It took me maybe 3 tries when I did it and it was 100% my fault for standing right in the blades.
I don't recall exactly what level that I'm at.  I have 103 hit points if that helps.
I have the Silver Sword and Shield (but not the armor.  I had it at one point, but wasn't able to recover it yet after losing it the first time I hit L6).
Seems that I have to hit it 35-50 times to kill it (my estimation of 5% per hit was quite high) and I die in 3 hits.  So if I'm doing something wrong, I don't see it.
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Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2013, 06:03:44 PM »
And I don't get your issue with the F8 boss if you haven't beaten it yet, are you under level 10 or missing some silver equipment? It took me maybe 3 tries when I did it and it was 100% my fault for standing right in the blades.
I don't recall exactly what level that I'm at.  I have 103 hit points if that helps.
I have the Silver Sword and Shield (but not the armor.  I had it at one point, but wasn't able to recover it yet after losing it the first time I hit L6).
Seems that I have to hit it 35-50 times to kill it (my estimation of 5% per hit was quite high) and I die in 3 hits.  So if I'm doing something wrong, I don't see it.
Are you playing the DS version? Normally HP rises in increments of 20, so a max HP of 103 would be impossible. And I was level 10 (max level) even before I beat the vampire boss so I had 255 HP. If regular enemies are tough to beat maybe you are underleveled. I found it really easy to level up even though it required a small amount of grinding.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 06:07:21 PM by Rodrigue »

Offline llaffer

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2013, 07:05:05 PM »
And I don't get your issue with the F8 boss if you haven't beaten it yet, are you under level 10 or missing some silver equipment? It took me maybe 3 tries when I did it and it was 100% my fault for standing right in the blades.
I don't recall exactly what level that I'm at.  I have 103 hit points if that helps.
I have the Silver Sword and Shield (but not the armor.  I had it at one point, but wasn't able to recover it yet after losing it the first time I hit L6).
Seems that I have to hit it 35-50 times to kill it (my estimation of 5% per hit was quite high) and I die in 3 hits.  So if I'm doing something wrong, I don't see it.
Are you playing the DS version? Normally HP rises in increments of 20, so a max HP of 103 would be impossible. And I was level 10 (max level) even before I beat the vampire boss so I had 255 HP. If regular enemies are tough to beat maybe you are underleveled. I found it really easy to level up even though it required a small amount of grinding.
I'm playing the Wii VC version of the game, which seems to level up similar to how the DS version levels up in Book II based on the gamefaq guide that I was reading.
EDIT: OK. I looked again, and it seems to be a little different.  But when I got to 100HP, I leveled up once, and only gained 3 more instead of the 5 that I was earning.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 07:08:19 PM by llaffer »
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Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2013, 08:37:36 PM »
OK, if that's the Turbografx-CD version I don't really know about it, I didn't realise it was so different from Ys Eternal/Complete/Chronicles. But you most likely need to level up more. When I played, some enemies would utterly destroy me until I gained one or two levels, and then I would own them.

Funny thing I found (and a spoiler unless you've reached the mine), in that version (which I presume most of you are playing), Sara (the fortuneteller) is "kidnapped", but in the other versions she is murdered.

Also (spoiler if you haven't finished book I) Dark Fact seems incredibly easier to beat on the Turbografx. For me one hit would take out a sliver of health and I often got trapped because of how many tiles disappeared.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 08:59:19 PM by Rodrigue »

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2013, 10:33:23 PM »
OK, if that's the Turbografx-CD version I don't really know about it, I didn't realise it was so different from Ys Eternal/Complete/Chronicles. But you most likely need to level up more. When I played, some enemies would utterly destroy me until I gained one or two levels, and then I would own them.
Yeah. This is the Turbo CD version.  This weekend, I'll grind a few more levels to see if that helps.  I think I'm within 100 XP of the next level, so shouldn't take too long.  It's only 300-400 XP between levels at this point.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2013, 12:56:17 AM »
I assume enemies give less XP in general since for me it cost thousands to get levels towards the cap. But apparently the cap on the Turbo is really high (if there even is one) so if you really want to you could grind to the point of one-shotting bosses.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2013, 03:09:40 AM »

  • Given that the game's primary goal is to explore floors and levels of dungeons, the omission of any on screen indicator for which floor you're on is kind of weird. I found myself saving alot simply to see which floor I was on.

In the Steam version I could press the L button (on a Gamepad) to toggle an overlay that included my stats, enemy stats known to the bestiary, and the current area (including floor if in a dungeon).

In the TG-16 version it doesn't have that unfortunately. That sounds like a worthwhile improvement though.


  • Grinding the hell out of the guys who break through the wall Kool-Aid man style on floor 20 of Darm Tower was really useful.
I don't understand the point of that, unless it is the DS version since it has 24 levels instead of 10 (or maybe my version's the weird one).

 
What do you mean you don't understand the point of it? If you think you might be underlevelled going into the last couple of floors then you can easily grind some levels. The great part about that particular room is that those enemies respawn so easily. If you move even slightly to the right and then back to the left all three guys will reappear and they'll even line up for you to rush through them all in one go.


[/list]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 03:13:37 AM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2013, 03:48:37 AM »
This point came up during the first part of RetroActive, which you'll hear Sunday, and it's worth writing down here:

If a boss is driving you crazy, you probably missed some equipment or need to get a level up. The patterns and timing are not all that hard for most bosses, with exception of the vampire (which has a really short window of vulnerability, as many people here have discussed).
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2013, 06:14:44 AM »
Ys: Giving the a whole new meaning to the term "bump n grind".  :cool;
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2013, 09:37:52 AM »
I assume enemies give less XP in general since for me it cost thousands to get levels towards the cap. But apparently the cap on the Turbo is really high (if there even is one) so if you really want to you could grind to the point of one-shotting bosses.
Most enemies early on give 2 or 3 XP per kill, then scale down as you level up to 1 XP per kill.   I've not noticed what kind of XP that I'm getting from enemies in the tower.

I just looked.  At L21, the first creature that I found on L9 gave me 12 XP per kill.  I currently have 3355 XP and need to get to 3500XP to hit the next level.

Should I have the silver armor before attacking the boss on L8?  Or am I current on my gear at this point?
 
EDIT: I did some grinding in L9 until I was L25.  At that level, the mobs that gave 12XP per kill started to give me 3 XP per kill, with the next level needing 400XP to get, so leveling started getting slower.  I then tried to beat the L8 boss, and it was easier.  My hits started doing more damage (probably closer to my 5% estimate vs. the 2% that I was getting at L21), and I could take more hits (maybe 8-10 hits instead of just 3).
I guess I'm just used to how games like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest scale, where there is little difference between levels, but in a game like this, 2 levels can be a significant difference.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 10:01:15 AM by llaffer »
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2013, 10:34:32 AM »
What do you mean you don't understand the point of it? If you think you might be underlevelled going into the last couple of floors then you can easily grind some levels. The great part about that particular room is that those enemies respawn so easily. If you move even slightly to the right and then back to the left all three guys will reappear and they'll even line up for you to rush through them all in one go.
I posted that before I realised that the Turbo version had a different leveling system since on the PC version I reached the level cap before the end of the mine. Because of that the enemies you are talking about were really hard to beat since I couldn't get any stronger, and there wasn't much of a point in beating them except to get more information on them for the bestiary.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2013, 11:40:06 AM »
So it looks like there's a few big differences between versions.


Really wish I could have had that map overlay..... :|
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2013, 12:23:01 PM »
Given that the game's primary goal is to explore floors and levels of dungeons, the omission of any on screen indicator for which floor you're on is kind of weird. I found myself saving alot simply to see which floor I was on.

Thankfully, I discovered early on that the current floor is noted in the menu under "Status".
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2013, 01:44:25 PM »
The item in the ice ridge of Noltia makes me feel a tiny bit bad about killing demons.

The use for the Misty Ice Drops? :confused;
 
I never would have tried that had I not referred to a guide. Some times games expect me to make these leaps of logic that I'm just not capable of making.
 


It can freeze air into ice? Surely it's the water in the air that's frozen into ice? And if it can freeze the water in the air into ice, thus creating a solid platform to walk on, then why can't it freeze the trickling waterfall into ice so that I can just walk up it? Also, if it can freeze air into Ice, then how come it only works in that once specific spot? Why can't I make platforms between all other gaps also? How was I to know that I had to use it in that specific spot?

 
See what I mean? My mind just doesn't seem to speak 'game developer'.
It seemed very obvious to me. I reached the cave where the ice needs to be used, saw a weird mist but couldn't do anything about it. Then I left, got the item, read the description, and it was the only place where it seemed like something might happen. I didn't actually expect it to create a bridge but I figured I would have to use that item somewhere, and it worked. Maybe the visual indicator in the PC version is clearer.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 01:58:40 AM by Rodrigue »

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #75 on: March 18, 2013, 08:35:34 AM »
Late to the party, but glad to be playing along at all thanks to a small bonus at work and finding some Wii Point Cards on sale 50% off.  Yay for unexpected gaming opportunities.


Anyway, so far I've just started the game and have completed the first mission in the Shrine. Will probably wait for a few days to listen to the Retroactive session, and haven't gone into most of the spoiler content in this thread.


Surprised to hear people complain about the first boss (mini-boss?) there - the wizard guy who stands in an area with pillars of fire moving back and forth. Although a different challenge than was offered up to that point, it really wasn't that hard if you have some patience. Sure, you have to wait for an opportunity to score hits, and sometimes that relies on luck as much as skill due to the timing and random location. But with no time limit and a very clear safe zone available at the bottom of the screen it's not really "hard" to keep zipping in and out of the danger area and just wait until he reappears on the end of your sword.


A few general thoughts about the game so far:
  • Did anyone play Half-Minute Hero?  Am I the only one who was vaguely reminded of that (excellent) game by the small overworld and run-and-bump style of combat here?
  • Almost forgot how important it is to talk to lots of NPCs in old-school games like this. Newer RPGs are always so directed that you never need to walk around and investigate towns if you don't want to.
  • Grinding is easy. Just hand the controller to my 2-year old in the field and come back a while later. Bam! Auto-level up, with child labor for the win!  (Only halfway kidding.)
  • Nice to play a mindlessly light RPG like this right now, and the soundtrack is a nice surprise.  Looking forward to playing further in... although can totally understand how people who didn't grow up playing "classic" (ie: old) games wouldn't see many redeeming qualities in this title.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #76 on: March 18, 2013, 02:24:28 PM »
Book II's world is weird. At least the first game's made some sense. This one just throws it out of the window, so if you thought the scenario was crazy before you will be blown away at how little they cared.


There's a village connected to a field connected to ruins and a mine, that's like the first game, pretty normal. Then that mine is connected to a snow land so somehow the climate shifted from temperate to polar in a few meters. Even WORSE, right past that snow land is a fire cave. There is almost no transition between them. Then after that is another grassy village.


The plot is dumb too but I get lost just trying to summarize it.


How do people have cats in the Moat of Burnedbless?


The bosses in this game are a lot more fun though, I don't feel the same kind of power curve as in the first game and it almost always takes me a half dozen of attempts to beat a boss, so it's neither too easy nor too hard. Regular enemies are the same, in Book I I would level up and suddenly kill every enemy on the field in one hit. They are more durable here.


Passive healing is really slow though so that sucks.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #77 on: March 18, 2013, 02:35:06 PM »
I actually mention HMH in the episode.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #78 on: March 18, 2013, 06:19:49 PM »


There's a village connected to a field connected to ruins and a mine, that's like the first game, pretty normal. Then that mine is connected to a snow land so somehow the climate shifted from temperate to polar in a few meters. Even WORSE, right past that snow land is a fire cave. There is almost no transition between them. Then after that is another grassy village.



You go from a village at the foot of the floating island, through some mines, exit at the higher elevations (hence the snow), enter into an active volcano, and come out at the other end of the floating island, which is also at a lower elevation than the snowy islands. It makes perfect (video game) sense!

The plot actually has lots of verismilitude, and it's actually quite elaborate (which becomes more apparent towards the end, when it ties to the events of I), but it definitely has several "er, what?" moments. While I appreciate that less can be more, especially in RPGs, their storytelling definitely had room for improvement.

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #79 on: March 19, 2013, 11:51:19 PM »
I didn't get around to playing Ys I before the original retroactive discussion, so I thought I'd start by  trying Ys II.  I like it so far, and I like how quickly-paced the combat is.  Since I tend to play these types of games fairly aggressively, I find it appealing.  Grinding for experience/gold isn't quite so much of a pain.

This isn't technically my first Ys game.  I vaguely remember renting Ys III for the SNES back in my childhood.  I remember enjoying it for the most part, but I didn't get to play it enough to really appreciate the game or understand what was going on.  It obviously marked a departure in gameplay style from Ys I & II.  I do wish it was available on Virtual Console because I'd like to try it again, though I do have The Oath In Felghana (the Ys III remake)  in my Steam backlog.

Some of the boss fights, wackier magic powers and the design of Adol Christin remind me just a little bit of one of my favorite NES games, Crystalis.  I know that Crystalis is most often compared to the original Legend of Zelda, but, while playing this, but I can see a lot of potential influences from this series as well. 


EDIT:  Eh, so I had written that last bit before I had heard the entire discussion on that subject during the most recent RFN.  Oops.

 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 10:02:42 AM by Sundoulos »
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2013, 01:08:59 AM »
I'm starting to make progress in Book II. I'd forgotten how each magic wand functions very differently -- it's not just a slight attack variation. In case anyone is wondering the purpose of the Light Magic, note that it slowly drains your MP while equipped (no need to press X). Another clue: it alleviates a complaint you probably had about the caves in both Books I&II up to that point.

One more useful tip for Book II: you can revisit the statues to review their information and refill your HP/MP. So, they are effectively way stations that let you keep adventuring without so many visits back to the village.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2013, 07:00:28 AM »
I'd forgotten how each magic wand functions very differently -- it's not just a slight attack variation. In case anyone is wondering the purpose of the Light Magic, note that it slowly drains your MP while equipped (no need to press X). Another clue: it alleviates a complaint you probably had about the caves in both Books I&II up to that point.
I don't understand why they didn't make light and alter toggle with a press of the button, it just forces people to switch as soon as they stop using it instead of when they actually need another magic.

I also feel like the fire magic is useless except when you are forced to use it like for bosses. I never use it on normal enemies.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2013, 12:23:50 AM »
How much time do we have left? Had a baby (or wife did I should say) March 5 and I've been kind of limited on gaming time. Hope to get some in tomorrow finally.

Maybe have it posted in the original post?
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2013, 08:20:07 AM »
I kind of got bogged down again and can't seem to get motivated to come back to the game. I actually really enjoy the minute to minute gameplay of Y'S II, particularly the feeling of your character becoming stronger, but the area design is beginning to become super confusing and frustrating.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2013, 01:39:27 AM »
The Shrine is so confusing for no apparent reason. Really obnoxious running around trying to figure out how to get to the West or East of the entrance.

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2013, 05:49:12 AM »
We record Thursday, so try to post your Ys Book II thoughts by then if you want to be on the show!
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2013, 09:33:28 AM »
@Rodrigue
 
Yup. Obnoxious, for me, pretty much sums up the level design (or lack there of). As was discussed on RFN last week Y's I (and I think this applies to Y's II also), does do some interesting things with perspective and layout, but at this point my exasperation with the labyrinthine design is outstripping my interest in it.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 02:44:42 PM by Pixelated Pixies »
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Offline ejamer

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2013, 10:51:41 AM »
I'm never going to reach Ys Book II before the recording date, but hopefully will start playing before listening to the podcast discussion.


What resource(s) are people using to help with their playthrough? I totally missed the harmonica and needed some guidance, and found this great walkthrough: [size=78%]http://www.vnotesonline.com/ys-book-i-ii[/size]


Pretty cool, and reminded me of the kind of notes I'd take as a kid when playing some of these obtuse games and getting utterly stuck. Ok, this is a lot more detailed and better looking.  But the idea is there.


Be warned that it does contain full maps and major spoilers though, so don't open the guide unless you are ready.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2013, 09:11:08 AM »
Im a huge fan of Ys Books I and II - got the DS version the PSP version and VC version and the anime! True the level design can be very confusing at times especially areas like the shrine and those dark caves urgh but once you find where you need to go you feel like you really found something and not like it was handed to you. Anyone interested in watching a guide/play through of the game i recommend UnPlayedAThing. His videos is what got me into Ys to begin with =)

Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2013, 08:05:37 PM »
I had hoped to try and get back to this game today. Unfortunately for any hopes I had of finishing Y's II, I recently picked up a handful of great games. FTL is freaking amazing, Terraria is a great little time killer, and Thomas is Alone is a funny and pretty interesting platformer. The nail in the coffin for Y's, however, was the fact that Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon was delivered today. Also, Harmoknight is released tomorrow.
 
In other words, this will likely be the last thing I have to say about Y's.
 
Y's Book I & II is exactly why I love Retroactive so much. It's a really interesting game, both historically and on it's own terms.
 
Historically, Y's I & II is significant because it embodies a time when video games were still embryonic as far as genres went. When Y's was released, video game mechanics and the genres with which they became associated were not as solidified as they would later become. This is both what makes these two games so interesting and unique, but I suspect it is also what contributes to them being so confusing and at times frustrating.
 
On it's own terms though, I feel Y's I & II works. The primary feedback loop of 'kill enemies, level up, unlock upgrades, fight stronger enemies' really worked for me. Much like Faxanadu before it and Zelda II after it, Y's I & II are immensely satisfying.
 
With all that said, Y's I & II can also be pretty obtuse. No where was this more apparent to me than in the level design, which was without a doubt the biggest issue I had with both games. For each area which was comprehensible and fun to navigate there was one which was decidedly not.
 
For every Burnland (good)
 

 
There was a Mine (bad)
 

 
or a Solomon Shrine (also bad)
 

 
 
Y's I & II is a game that I feel better for having played, but not one which I necessarily always felt good about while playing. I certainly did have some fun, but towards what I suspect was the latter half of Y's II (I don't intend on finishing the game and therefore may never know) the convoluted and tortuous labyrinthine designs of the areas finally wore me down. Y's I & II are interesting games, perhaps even good ones, but they are also very flawed ones.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #90 on: March 28, 2013, 08:17:54 AM »
At the boss at the Mine Depth 3. Anyone have any suggestions? The FAQ I looked up said attack his head, but I can't lay a dent on him. I have the original sword, this may be my problem.

Also, I got the dako tree thing that allows me to talk to trees. I know this should let me get the silver sword, which might answer my first problem. But where is the 2nd tree that is not right near the entrance to the mines?
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Offline ejamer

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2013, 08:42:38 AM »
At the boss at the Mine Depth 3. Anyone have any suggestions? The FAQ I looked up said attack his head, but I can't lay a dent on him. I have the original sword, this may be my problem.

Upgrade your equipment and/or level up.  I'd try upgrading equipment first though.

Quote
Also, I got the dako tree thing that allows me to talk to trees. I know this should let me get the silver sword, which might answer my first problem. But where is the 2nd tree that is not right near the entrance to the mines?


Go south from that tree and look close to the bottom of the field.
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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #92 on: March 28, 2013, 08:43:33 AM »


There's a village connected to a field connected to ruins and a mine, that's like the first game, pretty normal. Then that mine is connected to a snow land so somehow the climate shifted from temperate to polar in a few meters. Even WORSE, right past that snow land is a fire cave. There is almost no transition between them. Then after that is another grassy village.



You go from a village at the foot of the floating island, through some mines, exit at the higher elevations (hence the snow), enter into an active volcano, and come out at the other end of the floating island, which is also at a lower elevation than the snowy islands. It makes perfect (video game) sense!

I don't know what it was like in the original/other versions of Ys II, but the I did laugh last night because the apparently later versions of the game (such as the copy I'm playing on Steam) are somewhat self-aware and actually makes fun of this fact.   Conversations with at least one of the monsters (while using the Alter staff) in Burnland.  One monster makes fun of the fact that it it freezes it's butt off on the mountain but hot as anything inside Burnland, and ends by saying, "How does that work?"  Unfortunately, I couldn't remember the exact quote.

Also, one of the conversations with the goddess' statue in Burnland even points out that the Priests intentionally shaped the environment to have the volcano next to the icelands in order to provide a defense against the demons.  Well...at least the game does try to explain it.  I'm surprised they bothered. :) 

In general, I enjoyed just wandering around talking to the demons using the alter power.  Some of the conversations with them are actually pretty funny, as they refer to Adol as a thief and murderer who is going around raiding the treasure chests.  One of two of the conversations actually make you feel sorry for some of them.  For example, one of the monsters mourns the loss of his daughter.  Some of the others warn you (in monster form), to watch your back because of the "red haired" guy is beating up all of their friends.
 

I have the same issues with the level design that most others have, but, honestly, I have to admit that it's not much different than other games of that era.  With games like Crystalis, and some of the Legend of Zelda games, Metroid (1 & 2), or a number of other games that were limited in terms of environmental landmarks or diversity in background, I usually used Nintendo Power (if it provided a map) or went about the business drawing a map myself.   I think I remember recalling disappointment the PS One era when Final Fantasy games started a trend towards having very simple dungeon designs; I no longer feel that way, by the way.

Even though Faxanadu, another Falcom game, was a side-scrolling adventure), I clearly remember having to draw up a map/table for remembering some of the doorways that connected various areas.  I think I had to do the same for Legacy of the Wizard, though I didn't come close to beating that one.

Unfortunately, I didn't get as far as I would have liked before the end of the discussion period for this retroactive.  I have enjoyed what I've played so far, and I'll probably attempt to at least finish Ys II up after it's over.  Eventually, I'll go back and play Ys I.   

One last question:  Does the gift-giving system in Ys II have a point?  I've given a few gifts to people, and I've gotten a little in the way useful information and one gift in return.  I was just wondering if there are any major items or secrets that are tied to it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 09:03:12 AM by Sundoulos »
"A creature revolting against a creator is revolting against the source of his own powers--including even his power to revolt...It is like the scent of a flower trying to destroy the flower." - C.S. Lewis, in a preface to Milton's Paradise Lost

Offline toshironikko

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #93 on: March 28, 2013, 09:57:58 AM »
If i had to describe the difference between Book I from Book II i would say take I and just add a fireball that plows through everything.

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #94 on: March 29, 2013, 10:18:19 AM »
In case you missed it on Facebook/Twitter, we have pushed back the Ys Book II segment until next week, because our dudes need more time to play after PAX East. So you also have more time to get in comments for the show!
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Offline pPatko

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #95 on: March 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM »
Does anyone know if armour and shields act differently from each other?  Do they both just boost defense in the same way?  For example: do shields only protect from the front?
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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2013, 12:07:53 PM »
I wondered the same thing, but combat is so simple, it's hard to imagine the system includes differential protection between armor and shield. Surely they just both boost the defense stat.

Did everyone else get the fireball upgrade in Book II? I was in Burnland when I noticed the fireball got bigger and now goes through enemies, sometimes knocking them back for multiple hits. I didn't get any message about this happening, and it doesn't seem tied to any items -- maybe just an experience level? Quite unexpected, and now I wonder if there will be more.
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Offline Rodrigue

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2013, 08:25:56 PM »
I can hold down the button to charge up a bigger fireball but I didn't get an upgrade for it or anything. The only thing that "upgrades" this magic is the hawk idol.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 09:17:11 PM by Rodrigue »

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #98 on: April 01, 2013, 02:19:46 AM »
I didn't even know that the fireball could be charged until it was mentioned on this thread.  I wish I had known about it sooner.  I haven't seen/experienced a fireball spell upgrade, either, other than the homing effect that the hawk idol has on the fireball spell, as Rodrigue mentioned.
"A creature revolting against a creator is revolting against the source of his own powers--including even his power to revolt...It is like the scent of a flower trying to destroy the flower." - C.S. Lewis, in a preface to Milton's Paradise Lost

Offline Jonnyboy117

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #99 on: April 01, 2013, 08:41:38 AM »
Charging??? Homing effect???
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #100 on: April 01, 2013, 08:56:18 AM »
Charging??? Homing effect???

Fireball???
Gouge away.



Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #101 on: April 01, 2013, 11:52:23 PM »
Charging??? Homing effect???

Fireball???

Heh. Are those abilities limited to later versions of the game?  I'm playing the version on Steam. 

Here's a video of the boss fight where someone is using both of those abilities.



Granted, I just call it a homing ability.  You can sort of see that some of the fireball shots have an arc, but the capability to connect with the target is limited.  Still, I have found both abilities to be useful in my own game, particularly against this boss.

EDIT:  I take back what I said upthread.  Solomon Shrine and the surrounding canals are confusing and interminable.   The amount of backtracking needed for all the macguffins to get to the next area make things much, much worse.  I've enjoyed the game overall, but I'm quite ready to be done with it all. 
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 01:22:12 AM by Sundoulos »
"A creature revolting against a creator is revolting against the source of his own powers--including even his power to revolt...It is like the scent of a flower trying to destroy the flower." - C.S. Lewis, in a preface to Milton's Paradise Lost

Offline pPatko

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #102 on: April 09, 2013, 01:55:52 PM »
Great Retroactive everyone!   ;D
Finished the game yesterday and didn't even know about the fireball charging.  The homing, however was more than plenty powerful.
...until you get to the final boss.  "Oh, right.  I have a sword!"  That boss must have taken me beyond 100 attempts over the span of a week.  So brutal.  Initially I thought it was entirely luck-based but I eventually got better at dodging those marbles raining down on you.  My eventual conquest almost took me by surprise.  And there was much rejoicing.  The ridiculous ending was rewarding enough... I guess.
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Offline Pixelated Pixies

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #103 on: April 09, 2013, 02:19:13 PM »
@pPatko
 
Congrats. Yeah, I totally agree. This was one of the better retroactives.
 
I very much look forward to the next one. We all agreed to play Ufouria, right?  ;D
Gouge away.

Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #104 on: April 11, 2013, 08:43:02 AM »
Ooooh, I never played Ufouria.  I'd play along with that!

After all the references to Crystalis, I wish that could be next on the list.  It's a shame that it has never made an appearance on any of Nintendo's digital shops.  I'd even (maybe) consider getting the flawed Gameboy Color version.
"A creature revolting against a creator is revolting against the source of his own powers--including even his power to revolt...It is like the scent of a flower trying to destroy the flower." - C.S. Lewis, in a preface to Milton's Paradise Lost

Offline xcwarrior

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Re: RFN RetroActive #26: Ys Book I&II (Official Discussion)
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2013, 12:22:18 PM »
Hey guys, I made a big boo-boo, and saved while in Darm Tower on top of a bad guy. Now when I load, I die instantly.

Does anyone have a save file that you can post the password around Darm Tower (I'm at floor 9, but I'll take anything around there) or maybe an invincibility cheat I can put in for a minute to avoid dying instantly?

Any help would be great, thanks.
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