Author Topic: Star Trek  (Read 16991 times)

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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #125 on: May 17, 2020, 11:33:44 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfQdf93e63I&t=616s

19:15 - 20:15

Rich Evans nailed as always. I actual tear up a little. "Stop shitting on Star Trek man".

Youtube automatic transcribe so it's a bit off:

Quote
Star Trek has always done political

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00:19:19,049 --> 00:19:24,649
analogies let's talk about that but they

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have done it in a way

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they did it in a way where you still had

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your optimistic future I always I always

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loved that optimistic future about Star

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Trek I always have my favorite fucking

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moment in Star Trek I don't I've told

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we've done like five of these Star Trek

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reviews stop me if I've talked about

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this before but this the Abraham Lincoln

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space episode as corny as that is but

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you have Abraham Lincoln other bridge

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the enterprise and he uses an outdated

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offensive term a charming negress to her

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horror to her and and Lincoln even even

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faked space Lincoln being a kind man

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looks to her and apologizes Oh forgive

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me my dear I know that in my time some

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use that term as a description of

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property and a hora is utterly confused

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by this for a moment and then she

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realizes what happened and she laughs

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and it's a beautiful fucking moment

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because starts the Federation humanity

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is so good in the future racism is so

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dead she doesn't even know to be

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offended by that the foolishness of my

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century had me apologizing where no

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offense was given we've each learned to

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be delighted with what we are and it's

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it's such a thing of the past that it's

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forgotten it's completely it's

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completely forgotten about it's this

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wonderful bright vision of a humanity

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that that made it it's something we can

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look forward to it since fucking it's

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inspiring to me and now we're coming

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along and they're a bunch of fuckin

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fuckin xenophobes and racist and ****

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bad **** that stop **** that Star Trek
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #126 on: May 18, 2020, 12:15:05 AM »
Star Trek at its core is optimistic but that doesn't mean every little bit of it has to be. Some of the best and most memorable moments of Trek are very dark and cynical. If you were to ask fans to name their favorite Star Trek episodes one of the highest vote getters would be In The Pale Moonlight, which doesn't paint Starfleet or the Federation in a much better light than Picard did.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 12:19:32 AM by NWR_insanolord »
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #127 on: May 18, 2020, 01:19:02 AM »
You... you haven't watched Picard or actually know anything about it do you.. There is no excuse to what they did in Picard.

Pale Moonlight is good as it is a extremely well written powerful character driven episode exploring that moral space rather than the whole Federation becoming this crapsack world where FOX news somehow exists. There is this massive lead up, it isn't there for shock value. The Federation is losing and I have to sell my soul to save it not just materially but it's soul as well. I consume this sin, drink freely from this poisoned chalice so the Federation ideals can continue.

Every time someone throws out DS9 to justify Kurtzman, everything post 2009, I only see someone who never understood why DS9 worked. Rich actually addresses part of this straight afterwards. To add to that, despite the grittiness, the hope of that future is still there. I think it's something of a mistake to call it gritty, more a sense of adventure, being on the edge of known space where your ideals are tested against others. The crew continues to carry those ideals in this dirty environment, that hope. They get called out on it by Quark among many other characters with their ideals, ideals that are valid from their perspective. Nog and Rom, polar opposites embraces and sacrifices for them in the face of the strongest protests.

It's not that the Federation is false. DS9 acknowledges that it's not something that is achieved, it is a continued work, requiring maintenance and protection. Much like the rights we enjoy today we have to be vigilant to those who seek to tear them down whether they be worker, race, health or sexual rights.

Picard doesn't even pay lip service to that. Every little thing it brings up is twisted, misconstrue, exploits, then abandoned to fake progressive credentials. It undermines itself at every turn and it is sickening to think Picard somehow represents the Trek ideals or progressiveness when it doesn't. The same goes for STD and no doubt Pike.

That is not even touching on to how god awfully written it is even if you were to excuse the whole "Trek" thing. Look at this, how is this level of writing acceptable:


If that is not written by a hack I don't know what is. Something as basic as blowing something up.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #128 on: May 18, 2020, 01:28:31 AM »
I disagree with your interpretation, so obviously I don't know anything about it. This is really the core of the problem we've had with this thread, where you act like your opinion is objective truth, and anyone who sees things differently is stupid and doesn't understand what it really is.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #129 on: May 18, 2020, 01:57:28 AM »
Feel free to make an actual counter argument.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #130 on: May 18, 2020, 02:30:07 AM »
What's the point? We clearly just fundamentally disagree about this, nothing's going to change that. I never should have posted about this, I should have known this would be the result.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #131 on: May 18, 2020, 06:37:39 AM »
I haven't watched Picard yet, but Anson Mount was great as Pike. He came off as capable, warm and approachable.

Curious to see how this turns out.

Also, this just makes me sad for the Stargate franchise.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #132 on: May 18, 2020, 01:49:33 PM »
Was what was in Picard the Federation or just something with it's name? You make the claim of this core optimism but it has none. Despite being in a existential galactic war I would chose to live in DS9 that rather than Picard. In DS9 there is a Federation to fight for and I wouldn't have to put up with Fox News.

I miss Stargate. Lots of fun. Even SGU was starting to lighten up. That web/mini series was pretty good.
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Online broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #133 on: May 18, 2020, 03:19:45 PM »
On a side note, I never did get around to watching my TNG BluRays. Recently picked up the TOS BluRays on sale. I hope to get around to watching them soon. I've only ever seen a handful of episodes of TOS (namely Trouble With Tribbles, The Menagerie, A Piece of the Action, & The City on the Edge of Forever), mainly because I find TOS really hard to watch with its unintentionally cheesy acting & laughable special effects. My appreciation for TOS has always come from the movies.

The BluRays fix one of those issues, so I'm willing to give that show a shot again sometime.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 03:21:35 PM by broodwars »
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Online broodwars

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #134 on: May 18, 2020, 06:44:25 PM »
Timely: the long-awaited Plinkett review of Star Trek Picard.


BMM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwF1iri1GjQ
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #135 on: May 19, 2020, 03:32:43 PM »
Last year, around spring time or so, I started watching Star Trek Discovery Season 2. Got about 6 episodes before I stopped. There were just so many things about it that irked me from the direction, the writing and the characters. Started watching Homeland Season 6 (which is not great. Worst season of that show but better than Discovery.) Watched Homeland Season 7. Watched all of Barry. Actually went back and watched all Veep. I stopped watching Veep after the third episode back when it first aired but always kind of followed along some of the story line from reviews and it seemed to get more interesting as it went on. Watched the 3rd season of True Detective. Watched half the series of The Goldbergs. Kept up with watching Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Survivor, The Amazing Race, Tosh.0, Brooklyn Nine Nine, The Good Place, Rick & Morty, Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy. Started watching the Goldbergs spin-off Schooled and have seen its first two seasons now. Watched Season 4 of Mr. Robot (absolutely inspired. Probably the best show I watched in this time frame.). Watched the 5th season Better Call Saul. Watched all episodes of the British series Prime Suspect. Saw the first (and possibly only) season of HBO's Watchmen. Finally watched the last couple episodes of season 6 and then all of Season 7 for Voyager. Finally completed that series last month during the Good Friday long weekend. There's probably a bit more I'm forgetting in that not to mention movies I've watched and games I've played.

But since I completed Voyager, I figured why not go and finish Discovery Season 2? There were only 8 episodes to go and then I'd have basically seen all of Trek now aside from a large chunk of the original series and the latest Picard series that has started. (I guess there is an Animated Trek based on the original but no one seems to care or count that as any important Trek.)

What. A. Mistake.

Even though I had moved on to all that better programming (and yes, everything I listed above is better than STD), I was still mildly curious about the mystery it had started building of the red angel and the seven signals. But, as the saying goes, curiosity killed the cat and I should have known better instead of giving this show the benefit of the doubt which I only gave it because of Lorca from Season 1. That mystery unfolded terribly and, by the end, it has basically killed any interest I have in this new era of Trek. I had thought about checking out Picard but forget it. Star Trek is clearly done.

I had thought about starting a thread on Discovery just to start bagging on it but I figured there wasn't much point as oohhboy's pretty much got that on lockdown. I suppose I'd sum it up as this. When watching Voyager, you could see how TV still struggled with incorporating early CGI. It got better by Enterprise's time. CGI was used sparingly so the shows had to rely more on keeping people entertained by the dialogue and ideas. Now the graphics have gotten to movie blockbuster quality and have taken over so that everything can be whiz-bang AMAZING action and the dialogue between characters has decreased in quality to move things all in a perfunctory manner while any deep issues or questions raised during the series are barely explored or are treated like that is a homage to past Trek series. Like the people behind are saying to the fans, remember in past shows how the crew would go to a foreign planet and get in a tricky situation? Look we did that quickly in an episode as well. We're still the same Trek as before because we paid that thing lip service. Sure, the old series would explore the issues or conundrums they faced on those missions but who's got time to think when we can show spaceships go BOOOM!? The effects have now taken over and it is a hollow shell of what the series was meant to be and the direction it had followed for decades through multiple series up until now.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 05:52:48 PM by Khushrenada »

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #136 on: May 19, 2020, 10:35:03 PM »
A Treky friend of mine Swears that the Animated Star Trek may be the best TOS Trek there is.  It is lean and cuts the stories down to essentials, and I think it is voiced by the original cast.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #137 on: May 20, 2020, 01:05:51 AM »
I haven't watched that much of the animated series, but it had some neat ideas. They really embraced the format, doing some things with alien crewmembers that would have been tough to pull off even with the effects budget of something like Discovery.
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Offline Plugabugz

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #138 on: May 20, 2020, 09:16:50 AM »
I had thought about starting a thread on Discovery just to start bagging on it but I figured there wasn't much point as oohhboy's pretty much got that on lockdown. I suppose I'd sum it up as this. When watching Voyager, you could see how TV still struggled with incorporating early CGI. It got better by Enterprise's time. CGI was used sparingly so the shows had to rely more on keeping people entertained by the dialogue and ideas. Now the graphics have gotten to movie blockbuster quality and have taken over so that everything can be whiz-bang AMAZING action and the dialogue between characters has decreased in quality to move things all in a perfunctory manner while any deep issues or questions raised during the series are barely explored or are treated like that is a homage to past Trek series. Like the people behind are saying to the fans, remember in past shows how the crew would go to a foreign planet and get in a tricky situation? Look we did that quickly in an episode as well. We're still the same Trek as before because we paid that thing lip service. Sure, the old series would explore the issues or conundrums they faced on those missions but who's got time to think when we can show spaceships go BOOOM!? The effects have now taken over and it is a hollow shell of what the series was meant to be and the direction it had followed for decades through multiple series up until now.

This is something i coined for Stargate Atlantis (more than 10 years ago?!) as "blow stuff up wowzy". The show would use this tactic almost like a setpiece in the Uncharted series, most notably accidentally blowing up an entire solar system, instead of the character growth underpinning things like SG1 did. It was still fun to watch but the wowzy was very much a well it went back to repeatedly.

Compare to say, Doctor Who's Listen or Heaven Sent which was solely Capaldi's doctor (and Steven Moffat reminding that he is actually a good writer).

Also, DS9's visuals and sets has aged far better than Voyager's did.

Offline Shorty McNostril

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Re: Star Trek
« Reply #139 on: May 22, 2020, 05:31:15 AM »
I didn't mind Picard. No real desire to watch it again but I didn't hate it. And the stunning Jeri Ryan didn't hurt either. I'll watch season 2.

Watching through Discovery S2 now. I got a little bored through S1 and dropped off after episode three I think, but I heard good things about season two so I figured I'd start there. I'm quite enjoying it. Really liking Pike. Looks beautiful. Definitely finishing this season off and unless something terrible knocks it down between now and the finale I'll be looking forward to S3 and this new show that got announced a few days ago.