Author Topic: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008  (Read 7750 times)

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« on: March 08, 2009, 01:45:43 PM »
This Talkback thread is for discussing the year 2008 as presented in the PGC/NWR 10th Anniversary special.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=18019
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 06:13:51 PM by Lindy »
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 09:00:03 PM »
Yes! That Cho Aniki picture made it into another article!
Viva la Cho Aniki!

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Offline NWR_Lindy

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 09:01:01 PM »
2008 was the year of Cho Aniki.  That picture had to be in there.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2009, 09:36:20 PM »
Man, 2008...

I think that while the core vs. casual/Nintendo doesn't care about its fans debate has been going on since the DS release I think 2008 was the year the debate was set in stone and you either defended Nintendo or were against them.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that 2008 was both a great and a bad year for Nintendo.

Great because we finally saw the release of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Fit and many other great third party titles, like No More Heroes, Boom Blox and de Blob. Not only that, despite seeing one of the worst economic times in recent times the Wii AND DS managed to sell in record numbers. Oh and WiiWare finally graced us with its presence and bringing us games like "World of Goo", Megaman 9, "Strong Bad's Cool Game for Attractive People" and "Lost Winds".

Bad because the divide between the fans was clearly shown and it seemed that any respect towards Nintendo went down the crapper for many.

E3 2008 was terrible, but Nintendo's conference was pathetic. The fake enthusiasm, clearly staged jokes, the lack of big game announcements and the TERRIBLE Wii Music presentation made it the worst Nintendo conference in Nintendo history.

What's bad is that Nintendo completely ruined Wii Music's debut. The game itself might not be for everybody, but its not as horrible as some fans claim it is. The JC Rodrigo presentation at that Google conference SHOULD have been the E3 presentation, not the "WIIIII THIS IS FUN!" atmosphere that killed everybody.

It didn't help that Ubisoft announced all of these games, and all the Wii was getting was Petz and Babiez games.

Animal Crossing City Folk ended up surprising. Yeah, I was shocked and offended that the game played identical to Wild World, but when I got it for Christmas and started playing with friends I was enchanted once more. In fact, the game is far better than the DS version due to enhancements in gameplay and multiplayer. I think I've played this version more than the first two games combined.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:45:11 PM by pap64 »
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2009, 10:04:51 PM »
March 9th 2008. That was the day I got out of work early stood in fromt of a Wal-Mart with about two dozen other people to enter a raffle to win one of 9 Wiis. Eight numbers were called and then mine, number 9 was called. I acted like a little kid and jumped up and down screaming yes. I am such a nerd :)
Brawl was the first game I got.

But the first game I put into my Wii and played was Beyond Good and Evil because I'd had that for about a month but my Gamecube had stopped reading disks. After a good dose of that I played Brawls patience test mode (read: story mode) until I completed it a few days later. Then I went out and got Zack & Wiki and played that a few weeks later. Then I finally played Wii Sports and only because my roommate wanted to try it. I mostly did that to be contrary. What can I say, I'm weird.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 10:07:34 PM by Stratos »
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2009, 10:20:25 PM »
Brawl's online was odd. When I first played the game after it came out, I had no problem. I had maybe 1 case of slowdown, and that was for like 10 seconds. When I got online back a few months ago, I tried playing Brawl again. I couldn't even get 1 second of play that WASN'T lag. The actual game was great though. My only complaint is that they totally nerfed my favorite SSB/SSBM character: Samus. I think I logged like 700 hours with her in SSBM, but they made her so weak in SSBB.

I wasn't planning on getting Animal Crossing: City Folk until Circuit City had it on sale for like $35 in November. I loved the game. I have played it every day except for 5 days last week when I was too sick to play any games.

I don't get all the hate Nintendo got. They continued releasing games for hardcore games, so who cares if they released games that appealed to the mass audience? It has worked for them and for the industry in general.
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 10:23:22 PM »
Goddamnit. Dinosaurs aren't extinct because birds are still around. Maybe NON-AVIAN dinosaurs are extinct. :-)

2008 was a helluva year. PAX, SVP, the staff blog, me finally breaking down and buying a (cheap) PS3...2008 was definately one of my most memorable years as a gamer.

Brawl's online problems made me cry, but Mario Kart Wii's online solutions made me cheer.
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 10:28:09 PM »
Oh, I disagree with World of Goo as WiiWare game of the year. It's a good game, but over-rated in my opinion. I enjoyed Defend Your Castle a lot more, and it's well worth 500 Wii Points (World of Goo was a little pricey at 1500, so I am glad I got for free from the NeoGAF Secret Santa program).
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 10:49:15 PM »
Brawl's online was odd. When I first played the game after it came out, I had no problem. I had maybe 1 case of slowdown, and that was for like 10 seconds. When I got online back a few months ago, I tried playing Brawl again. I couldn't even get 1 second of play that WASN'T lag. The actual game was great though. My only complaint is that they totally nerfed my favorite SSB/SSBM character: Samus. I think I logged like 700 hours with her in SSBM, but they made her so weak in SSBB.

I wasn't planning on getting Animal Crossing: City Folk until Circuit City had it on sale for like $35 in November. I loved the game. I have played it every day except for 5 days last week when I was too sick to play any games.

I don't get all the hate Nintendo got. They continued releasing games for hardcore games, so who cares if they released games that appealed to the mass audience? It has worked for them and for the industry in general.

That's funny you didn't like Samus because I grew very fond of her in Brawl. Though that may be because I tried Zero Suit and I like the mix of speed and power she has in that form and through osmosis and final smashes I grew attached to using regular Samus, though I'm much better as Zero Suit than her regular form.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 11:09:21 PM »
No mention of the Nintendo Channel? That's probably my favourite Wii Channel!

Anyways, the year 2008 was a crazy one for myself and had many ups and downs, though overall it was definitely a great year.

In January of this year was when I finally bought a Wii. It didn’t come easy however, because apparently there was a shortage or something during that month. When I saw Circuit City advertising the Wii in the Sunday paper early Sunday morning, I dropped my tea and ran instantly to my car without even freshening up. I waited three hours in the cold before the store opened, but it was all worth it in the end. Both Wii Sports and Wii Play received a considerable amount of playtime from my friends and family for several months, though it has actually been quite some time since last the games have been played. It’s funny, people joke about the Wii being for grandmothers, and my own grandmother kicked my booty at Wii Bowling.

The first game I got for Wii was Endless Ocean. All I can say is... well, wow. Just wow. This game is something special. It’s not so much a game as it is an interesting experience. I was so drawn into it I was eager to explore every little nook and cranny of the ocean; the last time I was this compelled to go exploring in a game was Super Mario 64. However, this isn't the type of game I could play for long periods at a time, but maybe that's a good thing as it lasted me until the release of SSBBrawl. Strangely, I still haven’t gone back to the game since then and left it unfinished.

With all of the information on Super Smash Brothers Brawl which was available in the weeks before its release, my worriment that the game was turning into something I wouldn’t like was increasing, though I still needed to buy the game to be sure. The first sign was the third-party characters, but I could always avoid them. The art style really bothered me, but if the gameplay were good I could overlook it. The roster contained almost none of the new characters who I wanted to see; Wario was the only one, though his moveset wasn’t what I expected. The increased focus on the single-player is when I really should have known not to buy the game, but still I wanted to believe the multiplayer wouldn’t suffer.

I could not have been more wrong. Despite Smash Brothers always being a simple game, the gameplay has been simplified even further, turning it into what is essentially a spamfest of excessive randomness. Almost all of the new stages are way too contrived, with many hazards and movement, making some matches more of a battle with the stage itself rather than the other contenders. The single-player adventure is generic, uninspired, and dull, and is (possibly ironically) only somewhat enjoyable in 2-player co-op. The online mode, even for Wii standards, is limited and barely functional.

There’s an abundance of useless filler content which, with the vast resources of the Internet, is completely unnecessary. The trophies have very brief and sometimes poorly-written information compared to websites like the Mario Wiki. The stickers are nothing but the promotional artwork which has been used over the years, and can also easily be found on the Internet. Masterpieces are a worthless waste of disc space; if Nintendo wanted to offer people demos of VC games, they could have found a better way to do it.

The first two Smash Brothers games felt like a tribute to Nintendo, but SSBBrawl seems like an advertisement for Nintendo.

Trying not to let SSBBrawl discourage me, I was looking for something more original to rid myself of the negative feelings towards Wii. An interesting little game caught my attention, one which involved throwing stuff at block towers to knock them over and was created by none other than legendary moviemaker Steven Spielberg. I purchased Boom Blox the very day it was released. While it contained some interesting concepts, some of them were executed very poorly, and the puzzle designs also lacked variety. The presentation wasn’t so good either; there was some slowdown whenever there were a lot of moving blocks onscreen, and it had the most exasperating characters this side of Pokémon. While not too bad for a first try, it was ultimately mediocre and I soon sold it off.

At this point I considered selling the Wii itself. Yes I know, it was a hasty decision; I realized this and that’s why I didn’t do it. But where to go from here? One month earlier was the release of Mario Kart Wii, and Mario Kart is a series which has been nothing more than “meh” for me. However, certain reviewers and fans were hating on the game, complaining about all of the changes and how different it was. This gave me a rather strange thought… I was a fan of Smash Brothers and hated the new one, but could the opposite also be true? Since I’m not a fan of Mario Kart, could the changes of the latest version turn me into one?

There is such a thing as opposite day.

Mario Kart Wii single-handed changed my opinion of Wii, though it is a game which is far better than the sum of its parts. I first tried the game with the Wii Wheel, because I figured if I'm being forced to pay for it I might as well use it. However, I couldn't get used to the button layout of it, and having no feedback made it feel like a really loose control scheme. After switching to the GameCube controller however, I began fairing better, and absolutely love the improved physics of the game.

The new power slide (or “drift” as it is called now) mechanic works better than ever and also practically eliminates snaking. The drift (fine I’ll call it drift too) still rewards dangerous driving, as the sharper you turn, the faster you reach the mini-turbo. The stunts make things more interesting as well, and had me looking for any little ramp or mogul that I could trick off of. These two features mean that there's always something to do even if way out ahead, and also makes it interesting to turn the items off and see who the real drift king is.

The graphics in the game needed more polish. For the most part, the courses look alright and have some nice little details about them, but the character models are terrible. They have really low polygon counts, and none of them have fingers. They all look like they're made of plastic, even Donkey Kong, who should be furry. Not since the days of the N64 have I seen characters this blocky, with shiny effects applied to try and cover up the jagged edges. The special effects are also bland and need more variety.

Bikes just aren't balanced with karts, for one main reason: they can do wheelies on straight-aways for a speed boost. I don't know whose idea that was, but they must've been out of their mind to think that karts could do without something similar. If it weren't for this oversight, karts and bikes would be almost perfectly balanced; the better handling of bikes is a fair trade-off for a lesser drift boost. Furthermore, bikes with inward drift are even more superior due to being able to cut around corners so quickly. However, the thing which really sucks about the bikes is that you have to stare at your character's butt the whole time. The character abilities aren't very balanced either, though that doesn't matter nearly as much as the vehicle imbalance.

About the only lame part of the game is the retro tracks. However, since I never played Double Dash (at the time) or MKDS, half of the classic tracks were new to me. The SNES and GBA courses are incredibly boring and shouldn't have been included, and the N64 tracks lost a little something since they were largely increased in size. With the different physics, none of the retro tracks play as well as they did in the original versions.

Despite its problems though, I just can’t help but love it because the gameplay is so good. There are so many different characters and vehicles to try out, which really adds to the variety of the game. The online mode is incredible, there are always people to race from all over the world, and the effects of lag are rarely noticeable. With 12 racers and a hoard of items, it’s entirely unpredictable, you just never know what’s going to happen and need to be ready for anything. Each race is like a snowflake, no two are ever the same.

Mario Super Sluggers is yet another enjoyable Mario game. The biggest complaint I heard about it was that it was too similar to the first game, though that didn’t bother me because at the time I bought it I had never played the first game.

The characters in the game seem pretty balanced. There don't seem to be any useless characters, and even some of the seemingly weak ones can be useful when paired with certain characters. Some things seem a little off though… Since weak characters have larger contact zones, it actually might be easier for them to hit home runs over power hitters since they don't need to hit the ball with the exact center of the sweet spot like power characters do; I hit more homers with Toad than I do with Birdo, Luigi, Petey... pretty much any character I use with a higher batting stat. Not that Toad isn’t awesome enough to smack homers, but still, that's just plain wrong.

On the one hand, I like the way the Challenge mode handles scout missions; the little individual tasks are almost like little minigames themselves, and the mode has some variety to it. However, the scout missions just never get challenging (a contrast to the name of the mode), and there just aren't enough actual baseball games played throughout. But I don't really like Superstar Baseball's setup either... Having scout missions randomly appear in games mean you'll likely have to play the same team several times to earn all their players, especially on harder difficulty settings where you need more flags.

Of course, the multiplayer is the real draw of the game. Baseball games can be played with four players, and you can even put all 4 players on the same team. Let me tell you, if you haven't done this, you haven't experienced Mario Super Sluggers, as the result is lots of confusion and madness (the fun kind). The minigames to be found are even better than the likes of Mario Party since they are less random and luck-based. Also Toy Field + four players + alcohol = truly epic gaming.
 
Mario Super Sluggers has great gameplay and controls, but it's missing some finer details and any real depth. It still feels like Sluggers is the first game in the series. It's a real shame, as with Superstar Baseball as the starting point, Sluggers had the potential to be something truly great. As it stands now, it's a game with excellent gameplay that's limited by a lack of play modes. Hopefully the success of this title means there’s another sequel in the works…

Bomberman Blast has the distinction of being the only download game I have ever purchased. How could I resist an online Bomberman game? I mean honestly, how have all of you abstained from buying this?

I bought Animal Crossing City Folk about two weeks ago, because my friend has it and wants me to play the game with her. This is one of those games where it is kind of difficult to explain what makes it enjoyable, as it actually sounds kind of boring on paper.

Late October was when I finally got to experience Super Mario Galaxy. I don’t know why I didn’t buy this game sooner, as it really would have helped me in those first few dark months of Wii ownership. The other Wii games I bought I already discussed in their respective release years.

It is perhaps ironic that the game which I bought the Wii for turned out to be the one game on the system I truly can’t stand, while the game I thought I wouldn’t like ended up being not only my favourite game on Wii, but also in a good long while. I couldn’t be more glad I didn’t sell the Wii, because it has been a great ride ever since.

Offline Crimm

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 11:58:29 PM »
I'm not sure we really needed to do the awards recap since the awards feature went out like...four days ago.
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Offline Djunknown

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 12:02:48 AM »
2008...

No More Heroes was actually pushed up, so as to not get caught up with Brawl's debut. Of course Brawl was subtely delayed...

Still, NMH to me is one of those discussion pieces about its not-quite-meta gaming. There was more substance than Killer 7, but there was more substance to judge...

I don't understand all the Brawl hate. Then again, I'm not a 'tourney'-level player, and still don't understand why people try to make this into a 'proper' fighting game. It isnt'. At the end of the day, its just mascot characters beating each other senseless, Looney Tunes style.

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That's funny you didn't like Samus because I grew very fond of her in Brawl.

When I played it for the first time, I noticed that Samus had some weight to her. It was when I played ZS Samus, was when I realized why.

Oooh Okami. The game that came out mid-April, and lasted me until the end of may or so. Aside from a major-minor oversight, it was eventually solved.

Mario Kart Wii, or: How I spent the Summer of '08. The thing still irks me to this day is the liberal use of the blue shell. Its the only item I wanted turned off ... >:(

Mega Man 9. Despite its reliance on spikes, it worked out the muscles that had gotten soft over the years. Strange though, despite being hailed as a success, we haven't seen any attempts at 8-bit revivals...

ToS:DOTNW. Nice, decent length RPG. Good fighting system, good story, don't understand where some of the hate's coming from.

AC:City folk is still in the rotation. 'Nuff said.

A miricle happened. Still don't know which Castlevania title I should start with though...

Quote
No mention of the Nintendo Channel?

I check it every now and again, and now with a DS, check out the occasional demo. I wish there was like a regular feature, like "Ask Reggie" or "Getting fit with Shiggy", that would compel people to tune in on a regular basis...

2008 is the year where rival fanboys stopped snickering about Wii being a fad, to crying out that Nintendo is ruining gaming for them. Only they matter, and that everyone else die in a fire. Despite the fact that they alone can't support gaming. As if Nintendo was some disease. Gaming 'journalists', 'analysts', and some developers joined in, fanning the flames.

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Offline Stratos

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 12:10:54 AM »
My first exposure to Tales hate was the IGN review where they knocked the game for being like a dated Gamecube game.
I don't exactly have a desire to get it immediately but I would like to try it at some point.

I'm not sure we really needed to do the awards recap since the awards feature went out like...four days ago.

I actually forgot that FF 4 won DS because for whatever reason I had imprinted World Ends With You as DS-GOTY so I was mildly surprised and had to turn back to the actual GOTY feature. I'm not sure how that happened, maybe I mixed up multiple sites awards in my head.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 12:12:59 AM by Stratos »
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 12:25:50 AM »
You know what else happened in 2008? The surprise announcement of No More Heroes 2! This happened mere months after NMH 1 was released. It was surprising because the game was a sleeper hit.

Wonder how that is turning out...
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2009, 12:30:09 AM »
I don't understand all the Brawl hate. Then again, I'm not a 'tourney'-level player
Neither am I. In fact, I'm the exact opposite of a tournament-level player; 4-players or bust! When you like a game it can be difficult to understand how someone could hate it; for example, I love Mario Kart Wii and can't comprehend how some people hate it so.

It ultimately comes down to people having different tastes. SSBBrawl is almost completely different than the first two games, so naturally there are going to be people who are dissatisfied with it depending on their reasons for liking the game to begin with. Without getting into any detail (because that's dangerous for me to do and wouldn't end well :-\), every change that was made was one I didn't agree with, none of the new content was anything I cared about, and it has a bunch of filler content which is useless for me. Also, I don't really know anybody who is into Smash Brothers, although the few people who I did manage to get to try SSBBrawl still prefer SSBMelee because it is less random and the gameplay is more solid.

If SSBBrawl were the only Smash game to exist, I might like it, though since the first two games are more my style I can't stand the game.

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 12:37:39 AM »
The only problem Brawl has (besides the online play) is that it takes itself too seriously, despite it being a cartoony fighter.

I love Brawl, but I really miss the whimsical feel of the original. I mean the whole game was born out of a child's mind, a Nintendo fan even! Now its this convoluted universe that doesn't make sense.

There are some moments of whimsy here and there, but overall the game feels cold.
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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2009, 11:29:40 AM »
DEAR MOP IT UP:

Mario Kart Super Circuit for the GBA is the greatest Mario Kart ever made, and the courses are NOT GOD DAMN BORING.  I hate you.

Also Melee remains the greatest smash brothers iteration.

ALSO, I just CAN'T get into FFIV.  I'm not the biggest fan or traditional japanese RPGs, but I can stomach a few exceptional cases...but this game feels so empty and boring.  If I am going to spend so much time in a game, dealing with turned based battles and random encounters, I need a compelling world and characters I care about...I need beautiful environment and great music...FFIV lacks these.  The world feels dry, sterile.  It's UGLY and brown and gray.  Granted I'm not far in the game, but when I have the option of going to games like Golden Sun, Chrono Trigger, and even FFVI why would I ever choose FFIV?  I realize the majority of Earth loves the characters, graphics, story, music, whatever, but I found every aspect of this game to be beyond disappointing.

Also it requires too much grinding and I hate that.
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2009, 08:29:56 PM »
I'm not sure I agree with any part of your post, KnowsNothing.

Mario Kart Super Circuit had an awesome selection of tracks, and I enjoyed ti at the time, but the floaty controls feel awkward now, and they always sort of broke the Super Nintendo tracks. I can sort see why some people prefer Melee, but I don't agree.

And FFIV...well...as someone who had never played a Final Fantasy before IV on DS, and who HAD played Golden Sun and Chrono Trigger....well, it's interesting and has very good music. The game only requires "too much grinding" if you don't like  a challenge.
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Offline KnowsNothing

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2009, 09:03:59 PM »
Hahaha well I'm used to that.

To be honest, I can't even find my copy of Super Circuit so I can't comment on how the controls feel now after having played MKDS...but at the time it was released I remember them being quite agreeable.  Then again, I also adore Mario Kart Double Dash, even the controls, so I guess...I suck :P  For me, it was the selection of tracks that made me love the title, and still love it to this day.  I love playing the GBA tracks on DS and Wii even though they play quite a bit differently with the different controls.  I use the word love too much.

As for FF...that's not surprising.  Clearly many many people love the game to bits, I just personally can't get into it.  To be fair, though, I'm not far into it at all and perhaps I just need to give it more time.

I have never really liked any sort of ATB system though, so there's a big hurdle right there :P

« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 09:14:06 PM by KnowsNothing »
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 09:08:11 PM »
Mario Kart Super Circuit for the GBA is the greatest Mario Kart ever made, and the courses are NOT GOD DAMN BORING.  I hate you.
Sorry, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes with that post. I guess I'll add you to the list of people who hate me, which is getting surprisingly large. :(

I love Brawl, but I really miss the whimsical feel of the original. I mean the whole game was born out of a child's mind, a Nintendo fan even! Now its this convoluted universe that doesn't make sense. There are some moments of whimsy here and there, but overall the game feels cold.
The art style is a really big problem for me because I find it depressing. That's the opposite of what a game is supposed to do. I know you still love the game but I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has a problem with the game's style. Though you should probably not make such statements because it makes me want to quote you in my signature again. :-\

Offline Stratos

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2009, 09:14:08 PM »
I guess I'll add you to the list of people who hate me, which is getting surprisingly large. :(

I don't hate you Mop it up, in fact your one of my favorite people here.

Though I like the depressing style of Brawl. I more have an issue with the fact certain characters were cut and there were certain obvious ones that didn't get the chance they deserved.
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Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2009, 09:17:33 PM »
Mario Kart Super Circuit for the GBA is the greatest Mario Kart ever made, and the courses are NOT GOD DAMN BORING.  I hate you.
Sorry, I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes with that post. I guess I'll add you to the list of people who hate me, which is getting surprisingly large. :(

I love Brawl, but I really miss the whimsical feel of the original. I mean the whole game was born out of a child's mind, a Nintendo fan even! Now its this convoluted universe that doesn't make sense. There are some moments of whimsy here and there, but overall the game feels cold.
The art style is a really big problem for me because I find it depressing. That's the opposite of what a game is supposed to do. I know you still love the game but I'm just glad I'm not the only one who has a problem with the game's style. Though you should probably not make such statements because it makes me want to quote you in my signature again. :-\

For the record, I wasn't fond of Super Circuit either. I think the console and DS Karts were much better in execution.

As for Brawl, I agree that the style is too dark. I understand that they wanted the game to be a looker, with richer textures and better details but I think they could have made an amazing looking game without having to sacrifice color.

The worst part of Brawl is definitely the Subspace Emmisary mode. To me it represents Sakurai's ego gone wild. I understand he really wanted to make a single player SSB game, but it should have been its own game with its own story and its own engine rather than tacked on as an additional mode on Brawl. The fighting engines sucks for platforming, and the whole thing was boring as all hell with a story that even I could have made better (they hired a Final Fantasy writer for this??).
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2009, 09:33:31 PM »
I don't hate you Mop it up,
Though I like the depressing style of Brawl.
Well you might as well hate me because after a statement like that, I now hate you.  :P
Why would you want a depressing art style for a game like Smash Brothers which, for the most part, contains upbeat and cheerful characters? Or was it this unusual setting which draws you to the game, seeing it in a different way?

Quote
I more have an issue with the fact certain characters were cut and there were certain obvious ones that didn't get the chance they deserved.
You mean like Toad and Birdo. Especially Toad, he's been in more Mario games than any character besides Mario himself. Oh, and Mike Jones from StarTropics. I was surprised to see that there wasn't even a trophy of anything from StarTropics, it's like Nintendo just wants to forget the series ever existed.

As for cut characters, my favourite character got axed. Of course, given SSBBrawl's style I don't know if I'd have wanted to see the cuteness that is Pichu getting bombed by Snake...

(they hired a Final Fantasy writer for this??).
I didn't even know they hired a writer, considering there's no dialogue in the story. They tried to be way too epic with the story by finding some excuse as to why all of these characters were coming together, but really there's no way to create anything which works or makes sense so they shouldn't have even bothered. Also, I think the story had some affect on the characters who made it into the game as they probably tried to go with the ones who would have a part in the story.

Though it makes no sense to try and make Smash Brothers have any sort of in-depth single-player mode. Instead of the Subspace Emissary, the single-player should be comprised of modes like the Multi-Man Melee and the Home-Run Contest; short bursts of specialized Smash which are actually fun. The co-op of these modes was definitely a welcome addition, so even the single-player isn't strictly single-player.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 09:35:20 PM by Mop_it_up »

Offline NWR_pap64

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2009, 10:07:01 PM »
(they hired a Final Fantasy writer for this??).
I didn't even know they hired a writer, considering there's no dialogue in the story. They tried to be way too epic with the story by finding some excuse as to why all of these characters were coming together, but really there's no way to create anything which works or makes sense so they shouldn't have even bothered. Also, I think the story had some affect on the characters who made it into the game as they probably tried to go with the ones who would have a part in the story.

Though it makes no sense to try and make Smash Brothers have any sort of in-depth single-player mode. Instead of the Subspace Emissary, the single-player should be comprised of modes like the Multi-Man Melee and the Home-Run Contest; short bursts of specialized Smash which are actually fun. The co-op of these modes was definitely a welcome addition, so even the single-player isn't strictly single-player.

Funny enough, Sakurai himself confirmed that the reason he hired a writer for the SSE story was because he couldn't create anything engaging (it seems the best he could come up with was that the characters were on a bus riding to the tournament, while Snake was hiding around).

Crossovers are tricky when it comes to storytelling. You have to create an engaging story that makes sense of the mayhem going on. You have to explain to the reader why these characters are fighting each other and make sure it makes sense, especially if the characters comes from very different universes.

The original SSB was about a child who one day decides to play with his Nintendo toys and they came to life and started fighting. Simple. But in Brawl they create this alternate universe where somehow all of these characters exist in trophy form and they have a power that allows them to turn each other into trophies...and bring them back to life?

Its not engaging and it isn't well explained. Sure there are many moments of great fan service, but those moments aren't engaging enough to excuse the blah storyline.

But now I am rambling. Like I said I still love the game. But its obvious that too much emphasis was put on the filler content and single player campaign and not enough on the multiplayer.
Pedro Hernandez
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Offline BarryH

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Re: A Decade of PGC/NWR: 2008
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2009, 03:38:29 AM »
Quote
If they can iron out some of the design issues that caused Phantom Hourglass to receive such an underwhelming critical response
Until recently, it was the second best reviewed DS game. http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ds/legendofzeldaphantomhourglass