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Messages - MagicCow64

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1051
Great catch, that looks awesome. Some nice Spumco vibes on that trailer, and World of Goo and Henry Hatsworth are two of my favorite games from the last five years. This could end up being the best software on the WiiU for the first year.

1052
Nintendo Gaming / Re: Friday the 13th for the NES!
« on: July 13, 2012, 01:26:31 PM »
I played a lot of this game, simply from virtue of owning it as part of some weird bulk acquisition my parents pulled off from some acquaintance who was moving or going bankrupt or somesuch. It later turned out that I owned half of the games on a top ten worst NES game list published in Nintendo Power, but had no idea how bad they were at the time (or maybe I did, but just couldn't allow myself to believe that games could actually be that bad).

Anyway, I actually remember Friday the 13th managing to create a creepy atmosphere despite how clunky the mechanics were. Running into Jason when you weren't prepared was quite jarring. You might even call this the first survival horror game!

1053
Ian's not wrong
I don't think he's wrong per se. I just don't get why one would continue to engage in something one finds disappointing.

I'm not against cynicism. There are times when it's appropriate. I think he can stand to temper his vitriol in light of major strides Nintendo has made as of late. I'm not saying we break out the champagne and celebrate. I'm not even suggesting blind optimism. I disagree with the constant negativity.

I talk about third party support a lot so I figured I would add my two cents.  I would certainly like it if Nintendo worked hard at better third party relationships but they've said this before, so I'm going to be skeptical.

I don't know if it matters how much fluffing Nintendo does for 3rd parties at this point. The way the studios have consolidated into several mega-publisher columns makes the business decisions more straightforward. Like, I don't think Nintendo could gladhand Capcom into another RE4/Viewtiful Joe quasi-exclusive support announcement, because even if Capcom was sanguine about the creative opportunity it wouldn't make sense to take the financial risk. Publishers currently have no issues developing for Nintendo when it comes to Just Dance and Skylanders type propositions that sell well.

So basically I think it's just going to come down to sales more than anything. If the 3rd party stuff sells well enough on the Wii U to justify the port expenditures, then we'll see fairly robust support. Probably not much in the way of exclusives outside of Ubisoft or Japanese-centric products like P-100.

The worst-case scenario, in which Nintendo is lapped by PS420, might not end up as bad as the Wii. I recall reading some years ago that Wii games looked much worse than they needed to on average because many developers had no experience working on the Gamecube, and just ended up using PS2 assets, whereas if they exploited the Wii to the fullest, they could be getting 4x better results. With the Wii U, however, most developers have copious experience working on the Xbox 360, so even if Nintendo gets leapfrogged there will be staff and assets on hand to make worthwhile software based on 360-ish benchmarks. Those games will look comparatively better than Wii games did to PS360 games.

1054
TalkBack / Re: Of Nerds and Men: Cognitive Dissonance
« on: July 02, 2012, 08:42:53 PM »
I rented Street Fighter IV when it came out and took it over to a friend's place. We were both excited to relive a little bit of our SFII SNES living room summer youth, but we had to give up after an hour. I couldn't believe how absurdly complicated it was. It felt like there were five different meters to keep track of at the same time, and the ridiculously hard-to-pull-off power moves would just eat half your life bar, making competition against human or computer opponents futile. SCII might go down as the pinnacle of "serious" fighting games that are worth owning if you can't figure out how to actually play modern fighting games.

1055
TalkBack / Re: Pikmin 2 Review
« on: July 02, 2012, 08:29:26 PM »
I liked the expansions of gameplay offered by Pikmin 2, and the baseline mechanics are great (and that final boss fight is a doozy), but I also prefer the first game. Though the strict time limit was probably too harsh, having it completely open-ended in the second game took away some of the grit. Luckily I read an E3 interview where Miyamoto said Pikmin 3 is moving back toward the time resource management of the first game, so I'm hopeful that we're going to get the best of both worlds.

1056
Nintendo Gaming / Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« on: June 30, 2012, 05:32:22 PM »
Does anyone know what the net profit/loss is for the xbox 360 at this point? I know they spent billions on it and they were in the red for a long time, but right now the 360 is the best selling console on the market and it has been that way for awhile, so are they out of the red yet? If the 360 ultimately became profitable then that would be all the more reason why Microsoft would want to repeat that strategy.

As we've seen, Nintendo is perfectly capable of getting by with a console that is a generation behind, but can Sony do that? If the PS4 ends up being a generation behind the 420 will Sony be able to survive? On the other hand, they could beef the PS4 up to match the 420, but do they have enough money to do this again? This is the dilemma they face, and either way they might be screwed.

It's difficult to say how well the 360 has benefited the bottom line over time, but Microsoft's entertainment division is not doing all that hot, it's just doing better than Sony and Nintendo. Microsoft seems more interested in expanding its phone and media businesses: http://www.geekwire.com/2012/microsofts-entertainment-division-diverse-profitable/

The eventual domination of the 360 this gen has helped turn things around for Microsoft, but their life-to-date entertainment division is still in the red by as much as $5 billion (as of this 2011 article), and the question is exactly what this board has been discussing: can they sell another console at a huge initial loss? http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-21/tech/29975028_1_windows-phone-microsoft-nintendo

Given how much money MS has pissed away on Bing and plowed into establishing the Xbox brand, I know what my opinion would be if I was a shareholder.




1057
Nintendo Gaming / Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« on: June 29, 2012, 10:25:14 PM »
I'm going to disagree with the majority, in that I agree with Nintendo's reluctance to show future titles.  First, it keeps the competition guessing as to your strategy.  But more importantly, it allows Nintendo to go all out next E3, stealing the attention away from Sony and Microsoft's next consoles.  Timing is as important as the nature of your news.  Could Nintendo have shown one major game to create a positive impression?  Sure, (and I don't think Pikmin 3 was this game) but I think having mostly tech demos to stimulate the imagination of your audience is sufficient for now.  The whole point is to not be forgotten next year when the competition increases.
Your point that they need to have a good showing next year when they're going to have to compete with the next generation consoles is a good one.  The only thing I wonder is if by that time, it's already going to be too late to have a chance to capture the core gaming audience.  Many seem to have already lost interest and forgotten and the system isn't even out.  Maybe I'm crazy but this feels like the WiiU could end up like the Dreamcast, caught half way in between generations and people will take a wait and see approach and end up choosing the next Sony or Microsoft consoles because they're far ahead technologically.  Obviously, Nintendo is in a completely different place financially and Nintendo's first party games are superior and they're coming off of the best selling console of last generation so it's a different situation so who knows.  I want the WiiU to be successful but I just don't see that being the most likely scenario at this point.

I think it's coming down to a Mexican stand-off between Nintendo and MicroSony. Will the PS4 and XBox720 make a huge, expensive graphical leap in order to defunct the WiiU and please Epic, or will they look at their bottom lines and make a gentle, multi-media focused upgrade? It'll be years before the economy gets back up to the same snuff it was when last gen launched. Will they risk a high PS3-esque pricetag and slow adoption? Or will they position themselves about as far ahead of the WiiU as the Gamecube and Xbox were ahead of the PS2?

I honestly think it could go either way, and that, despite everyone's thirst for crazy Sci-fi graphics, it would be healthier to slow-walk the generational upgrades and tamp down on the gross boom-bust software cycle and usurious DLC/online practices.

Time will tell!

1058
Nintendo Gaming / Re: People Need To Stop Bitching
« on: June 27, 2012, 04:53:57 PM »
I remember prior to the Gamecube launch the big challenge was getting people to pay attention.  It really seemed that outside the Nintendo fanbase their wasn't much coverage of the Cube.  I found it very frustrating to see it ignored by magazines and web sites like it was a non-factor before it even came out.

Nintendo should want to get people talking and that doesn't happen if you're all private about things and save announcements for Nintendo-only events.  If Nintendo has a game in the works that would create a major buzz, that isn't due until some time in 2013, they could still potentially sell Wii U's on the hype of that title alone.  Or at least keep people interested until that title comes out.  If you blow the chance to grab their attention when are people going to suddenly care?  You could release a game they want next year but they might NEVER KNOW ABOUT IT because if they've already written the Wii U off and how much effort are they going to put in to keep up to date with a system they don't care about?  If someone is not interested in Nintendo they will not pay any attention to Nintendo Direct.  Everyone pays attention to E3.  If you make a splash there you might enter the field of vision of people who otherwise don't care about you.

Of course this was the first impression and they blew it.  So good luck getting anyone who's written off the Wii U to ever pay attention again.  It's much easier to get general interest in "the new Nintendo console" than "the new games for that existing Nintendo console that you don't own or care about".  Next E3, gamers who don't already own a Wii U will pay less attention to Nintendo's showing.  The first E3 appearance of a system always attracts the most general attention.

I agree that it was a tactical blunder to parse out such an underwhelming E3 showing, and could have major ramifications about the viability of the Wii U, fairly or not.

But I think you can possibly extrapolate a strategy from this, for reasons you allude to. Next E3 is going to be all about the new Playstation and XBox. To stand any chance of withstanding that tide, Nintendo is going to have to have a flood of announcements. As people have mentioned, they're extremely inconsistent about how long ahead of time they debut games in the press, so I'm inclined to believe its more about strategy (correct or incorrect) than having a genuine policy of not showing games off until six months before they launch. Why else would they supposedly nix a Retro demo? That by itself could have created enough buzz to balance out all the negative impressions that have flooded from E3. I'm guessing Nintendo is secretly scared shitless about the Orbis and Durango, and is really hoping they're not going to make the Wii U a tech orphan.

1059
I think the series could definitely use more fear and surprise.

WW2 would fit the bill, because it could have the Gestapo trying to hunt you down and so it would be like the Spanish Inquisition only more modern and therefore more fresh.

That runs into the problem, though, of guns. By WWII you could plausibly have a Wolfenstein-eque arsenal, and certainly Axis soldiers and Gestapo would just shoot at you. I'd say you could push it to WWI-era with people still having comparatively primitive rifles and handguns, and not lose the assassiny melee focus. I would not care to see the series turn in to open world Hitman. You could even plausibly have it set in the "present" where the Templars have succeeded in banning guns, England or Japan style. SWAT teams and troopers and such would still have ordinance, but theoretically regular cops and guards would just have batons and stun-guns.

1060
You've got to assume Ubisoft has this planned out on paper for many years.

AC III: Revolutionary War
AC: Companionship: War of 1812
AC: Tumescence: Victorian/Edwardian London

AC IV: Revolutionary Moscow (early 1900s)
AC: Fellowship: Eastern European WWI
AC: Complacence: Ottoman Empire WWI

Etc.

1061
Interesting to see Cursed Mountain get some attention. I picked it up used for a few bucks a little while back out of vague curiosity. The setting and Buddhist themes are stand-outs, but the gameplay itself it sadly kind of dreadfully repetitive. I lost interest after getting about halfway through. Worth giving a spin for the horror game enthusiast, but I can't recommend it for general audiences.

Little King's Story is one of the best games released on any console at any time.

1062
General Gaming / Re: Aesthetically Pleasing Home Consoles
« on: June 22, 2012, 08:09:43 PM »
You're forgetting about this beautiful bombshell:



The 3DO looks like a set prop in a Space Quest game.

1063
I didn't have that much of a problem with celestial brush Wii controls during normal gameplay (aside from I think one of the "advanced" symbols that is optional and useless), but every time there was a quick time event sequence I came within a hair's breadth of chucking the game out the window. Those sequences made me angry enough to dislike the overall game.

1064
WTF? I'm in NYC and I haven't received an invite. I am a high-value person.

1065
I'm just going to say this: If people just bought a Wii and nothing else, the attach ratio wouldn't have been near PS3 levels for the longest time. The revisionist history (now hardware sales don't determine first place in konsole warz?) and anger from the typical message board hardcore (who is increasingly more obnoxious with every year with their annoying entitlement and hatred of other people entering their hobby) for the Wii and now Wii U is just sad to me. I sort of hope the Wii U does extremely well, just to see the whining and excuses being made by the Western press and gamers. It will be a sight to behold just like it was this past generation with the Wii's success. Because between gamers and Nintendo, I have to choose the lesser of two evils, and that's unfortunately Nintendo.


I like this guy..

That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit.

I really am unconvinced with this myth. The Wii has a tie ratio above 7 last I checked. That tells me that people are buying games beyond just Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Remember, people who complain about these sort of things on the internet don't count Zumba Fitness and Just Dance as real games, so to them they might as well be Wii Sports and Wii Fit.


Dear sweet Dingus, that wasn't the point.

1066
I definitely think in the last couple years the share of Nintendo in terms of software has dropped. This is also partly tied into the amount of new Wii hardware that Nintendo is moving. I think this is simply a matter of two very simple, straightforward things as opposed to any grand sweeping shift in consumer behavior:

1. The Wii is at the end of its console life cycle. Nintendo seems to be more in line with a traditional 5-year cycle with their system versus the longer tails and higher future-proofing of the XBox 360 and PS3 hardware. As a result I'm not too surprised to see Wii software and hardware slowing down.

2. The Wii doesn't have the third-party support that would traditionally hide/make-up-for the shift of first-party resources into new console development. As a result, this makes the petering-off effect even more apparent.

Also, as regards tie-ratios, I know it's not official, but Gamasutra has a decent enough rep that I feel relatively safe using their informed speculation as regards to tie-ratios:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/6350/npd_behind_the_numbers_march_2011.php?page=3

Good link, I think it seems perfectly trustable. Salient bit, per my previous hypothesizing:

"In the 15 months prior to that period (i.e. from October 2008 through December 2009), we estimate that the breakdown was 48 percent for the Wii, 32 percent for the Xbox 360, and 20 percent for the PlayStation 3. The key dynamic at play here is that Wii software unit sales dropped by over 25 percent from the first 15-month period to the second while PlayStation 3 software grew by 18 percent. Software unit sales for the Xbox 360 were basically flat between the two 15-month periods.
 This is a point we've made before, and one that's worth making here again: Wii hardware and software sales are still at healthy levels, for the moment."

It's been nearly 15 months since this report, so I think you could posit another big percentage shift away from the Wii, despite it having the highest install base, while new software hits are still coming out regularly for PS360. This makes it a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem to me; did third-parties stop supporting the Wii because software sales were dropping precipitously, or did software sales drop precipitously because third-parties stopped supporting the Wii?

The article also possibly backs up my previous theory, that while console sales and software share dropped off, a sturdy core of Nintendo supporters was able to push the tie-ratio up over time, though helped by occasional cultural break-outs like the Just Dance games. 

I guess I'm just not confidant that there's enough different about the WiiU's appearance and tonal presentation to lure enough third parties back to the table to give it another go-round for traditional titles.





1067
TalkBack / Re: Dead Space 3 'Not Currently in the Plan' for Wii U
« on: June 14, 2012, 07:22:28 PM »
Well, even though I'm sure EA bases all their decisions on money, and money alone....if we lived in a strange alternate dimension where EA considered game design, gameplay, and the feasibility of such in terms of hardware platforms....I don't see Dead Space as a whole working well on the Wii U.  How would they use the Gamepad screen?  It seems like one of the central UI tenets of the game is an economy of iconography on a single screen.  There are no menus or inventory screens (well, kinda, but not really, because you always view Isaac's backside and the surroundings).  They've integrated everything onto the main screen, and the blue light pretty much eliminates the need for a mini-map.  So except for maybe a lock-picking or computer-hacking mini-game (and if I get paid a nickel every time a Wii-U game will use that in the next 5 years, I will be a rich man) what could they throw down there on the gamepad?

I agree with your characterization of the Dead Space UI aesthetic, but I think this could actually be enhanced with the second screen. It's really kind of silly that Isaac's suit would just project all of the information you'd get in a UI in the first place, along with a spinal tap life bar, but you could design the screen to be a belt-view or some such, where you could see the weapon loadout on Isaac's body and the ammo amount, and more organically incorporate the upgrade tree.

1068
That data you linked is 4 and a half years old. The ration is probably completely different now.

Roops, it is indeed old data. Oddly, a more thorough search has not come up with anything fresher than 2009, though it did unsurprisingly verify that Nintendo published titles make up an outsized portion of total Wii game sales.

I can't find the quote, but didn't Nintendo admit that they had a problem?

Anyway, to connect this a bit more with the point of the thread, Wii game shelf space has steadily shrunk in the retailers I've been to in NYC over the last three years, and having the same white cases for WiiU probably isn't going to help the consumer psychology.

1069
That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit.


I really am unconvinced with this myth. The Wii has a tie ratio above 7 last I checked. That tells me that people are buying games beyond just Wii Sports and Wii Fit.

Anecdotally speaking, I've seen quite a lot of that (toss in Wii Fit and Rock Band, maybe), but admittedly that doesn't equal data. A quick check here http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Software_tie_ratio has the Wii at 6, Xbox 360 at 7.5, and PS3 at 4.5 (youch). On the face of it, the Wii doesn't look like it's doing much worse than the 360, and significantly better than the PS3, but I think the problem here is time scale/customer density. I suspect the reality is that some large amount of people received Wiis as Christmas gifts (for instance) with a few games and never did much beyond that after a year or two, while there was a natural 20-30 million Nintendo fan base (Gamecube audience) that had a much higher tie-rate across time, heavily skewed toward Nintendo IPs. I'd be curious to see charts plotting console sales and total game sales over time for all three consoles. Otherwise it's difficult to explain the Wii software story compared to the 360/PS3, unless all those "casual" users were picking up a scattering of Chicken Shoot type games at random in such a way that individual titles never dented the charts but added up to a lot in aggregate.

Like, if 50 million users buy 3 games between 2006 and 2008, and then stop, while the remaining 40 million buy 15 games between 2006 and 2012, you could get closer to an overall 6 tie-in, while having a pretty anemic new game market after 2008. (Obviously this would have to be scaled over time to account for the total pool of Wiis starting at 0 and getting to 92 million in the present.)

Although it's also surprising that the 360 only has a 7.5. I assumed it would be over 10.


1070
General Gaming / Re: Watchdogs is the new hotness
« on: June 13, 2012, 02:14:26 AM »
I probably will be let down by this, it would not be the first time. Rewatching the demo makes the me think the path he took was a little too slick and scripted. I got hyped and then disappointed by the following games this gen:

Bioshock - Promoted as a morally gray free-roaming shooter with interesting enemies, situations and weapons. Turned out to be a good linear FPS with a couple of cool tricks that storywise ran on too long.

Asassin's Creed - Promoted as a gorgeous gigantic Sandbox game in a unique setting. Turned out to be empty and repetitive.

Alan Wake - Promoted as an amazing supernatural mystery game with tons of style set in a fantastic little Pacific Northwest town. Turned out to be 75% running around in the woods shooting the same pseudo zombies over and over while your flashlight ran out of batteries. The combat was so repetitive it felt like a bad rail shooter in parts.

I'm basically with you. Bioshock had an amazing initial E3 reveal that turned out to way oversell the game. It did not feel significantly more sophisticated than Doom 3 to me, and the fact that you were in an underwater city didn't really matter.

Alan Wake I liked for what it was, but compared to the initial teases, it did indeed feel like a corridor shooter.

Assassin's Creed I think got a lot better by the time it got to Brotherhood, but the improvements basically made it into a weird action-RPG/collect-a-thon. It has very little to do with being a stealthy assassin or strategically maneuvering through the environment. 

I was impressed by the Watchdog demo, even though a lot of it is obviously scripted, until it hit the shooting part. Clearly that is going to be 50% or more of the game according to the current fashion. If they promised this game would have no guns, then it would be one of the most interesting announcements in years.

1071


That just highlights to me that a truly astounding amount of people bought Wiis as novelty gadgets and never used them again after they got tired of Wii Sports/Fit. I think there's a genuine cognitive dissonance problem inside of Nintendo, where they look at that number and believe that they've won, but can't/won't internalize why they're a borderline laughing stock among the Western gaming world. I'm frankly kind of surprised that the WiiU is getting even the tepid level of 3rd party support they showed at E3. Most of the western studios and gaming press seem like they'd be pleased if Nintendo just gave up the ghost and stopped causing them headaches/obligatory port development costs. I have a sinking feeling that if the first round of these games don't sell well, which they probably won't, most publishers will give well-we-tried shrugs and trot away, even faster than they did with the Wii, which was even faster than they did with the Gamecube.

The main hope with that might be digital distribution. If companies don't have to bother printing, packaging, and retailing games, the (supposedly easy) porting process might make it worth it even if sales are comparatively negligible.

As for Wiimote compatibility, I was really hoping they'd make it a Motion+ minimum, despite the additional confusion that would likely cause. They could have even put together a voucher program where WiiU owners could send off for Motion+ dongles to get up to speed! Many problems with the Wii I believe are traceable to the underwhelming fidelity offered by the basic Wiimotes, and they should have retired them as a first gen effort, much like Microsoft will likely do when they launch KinectXP.




1072
Nintendo Gaming / Re: Wii U
« on: June 11, 2012, 05:42:13 PM »
As the largest Japanese company, it boggles my mind to hear concerns over Nintendo's strategy.

I swear, if the vocal minority had their way, they'd want Nintendo to go third party and develop for NextBox. Why? So they don't have to buy Nintendo systems to play Nintendo games.

And these are supposedly long time fans of Nintendo.

While I don't exactly wish that Nintendo would go third party (did not work out well for Sega, quality-wise), at this point in time I don't really see the point in differentiated platforms. All the next consoles will be dressed up PCs with extremely similar basic controller inputs (360 controller base) with fairly similar accessories (Wiimotes, PS Move, Smart Glass, UMote). I think people generally agree that there should be a standard of online functionality similar to that of the 360, with the multi-media apps that will be on all three consoles. What's really being gained by having three difference consoles? It's a very narrow competitive track for exclusive games. Sony has a lot, most are marginal, Microsoft has a few, which are huge, Nintendo has a moderate amount of active properties that are pretty big.

I think this parallels the sort of crisis that's happening with handhelds and to take a longer view, general computing. Really it would be best for the consumer if a single platform offered the content of all companies, both media and game, but then you encounter monopoly problems. The more I think about, the hypothetical Steambox licensing approach with minimum specs might be the best outcome.

Look at the desktop computing war: Apple has pretty much ceded that ground to Microsoft, outside of the realm of high-end media production, and the world seems to have shrugged past on the vague hope that Windows will suck less in the future than it does today (which has mostly proved true so far).

1073
TalkBack / Re: Pikmin 3 Impressions
« on: June 08, 2012, 05:22:54 PM »
Yeah, I mean, Pikmin 2 is still a great game, but also the kind of game that most people will only play through once or twice, and I have to believe that planned design is going to trump randomization in that case. More than the randomization, I thought the ratio of time spent in the caves was the real problem with 2.

1074
TalkBack / Re: Pikmin 3 Impressions
« on: June 08, 2012, 02:20:32 AM »
I hope so, as I really dislike randomly generated content, and I thought Pikmin 2 leaned way too heavily on those caves. That said, the steamroller goo man enemy was terrifying.

1075
Fusing all the music games is an impossible task. Licensing will kill any possibility.

Smart glass won't get more support since 1,it isn't built in. 2, requires outside hardware no one controls, therefore extremely unpredictable. 3, it is inherently less capable than the Gamepad.

Smart glass might be more "portable", but portability isn't a concern for the functions that the Gamepad is meant to do. Smart glass is mostly FUD inorder to blunt Nintendo's advantage.

I'd argue if the gamepad is more capable than a tablet.

That and I think tut while they aren't going after the same thing you are highly underestimating Microsoft's ability to go to a pub or dev pull out. Blank check and say put kinect and Smartglass into your game and we will cover the marketing budget and some of the dev costs.

I mean they already had a proof of concept of Madden and Wii U couldn't even get that.



Yeah, this is what I'm thinking about Smart Glass. When you notice how so many games have completely tacked-on Kinect support, the only explanation is that MicroSoft is twisting arms and greasing wheels. I have to think that the dudes making these games have no respect for the the Kinect, and include the features begrudgingly. It was a quiet story, but I found it notable when Epic confirmed their Gears of War spinoff was dead. Felt like a big dog biting the hand. Or that it was never real. Nintendo can longer compete with Microsoft in that respect, but they could well benefit from easy functionality ports from Microsoft-subsidized Xbox games. Unless Microsoft adds caveats about not porting Smartglass programming or concepts.

In reply to Chozo Ghost's last comment, that's why I've found it puzzling for years why Nintendo divested themselves of their 2nd party stable. Sold off Rare, closed Leftfield, broke off with Silicon Knights, let Factor 5 defect/fail, and did not buy the cow with close developers who would clearly just would do them good (Good Feel, Monster e.g.). They got really fucking lucky to own Retro. If Retro wasn't around even in the imagination, things would be pretty goddamn bleak at this point. And I suspect Dragon Quest support is doing them good overseas.

On the other hand, Factor 5, Silicon Knights, and Rare never made a good game again after leaving (maybe Viva Pinata), so maybe Nintendo knew something we didn't?

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