Messages

3451

Podcast Discussion / Re: RetroActive #23: Wario Land 4 (Official Discussion)

« on: August 15, 2012, 10:51:11 AM »

You are taking one sentence from my argument out of context and then offering comparisons that aren't similar on a lot of important levels.


Where does Wario Land 4 make you burn random bushes? Almost nothing in the game is just randomly hidden - level design and graphical hints give away virtually all of the secrets for anyone who pays attention. (The rest of the secrets should be found through normal exploration - part of the Wario Land series from day 1.)


Not paying attention to (or at least remembering) then controls in a simple 2D platformer, refusing to check the manual or replay the mandatory in-game tutorial, and then blaming the game for not introducing certain moves doesn't really compare to having extremely difficult or broken controls.


I never said the game was perfect, and am not trying to dismiss all criticism of it. But some of the complaints posted here aren't very meaningful and sound like people came in with expectations instead of just trying to experience the game.

You are completely missing the point. If people don't like some aspect of a game, they don't like it. If they are forgetting a mechanic, it may be that the designers didn't use it often enough or didn't include necessary reminders. Or maybe not. But OPINION is not something that can be argued on factual grounds. And if a majority of peoples' OPINIONS are that some aspect of a game is frustrating or not fun, THAT is what makes bad game design. I am not saying that Warioware 4 has bad game design, but it is certainly not the case that peoples' arguments about frustrating elements of the game are their fault. They just find those elements frustrating.

Fair enough.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/game-boy-advance/wario-land-4
The majority of people seem to think Wario Land 4 is ok, so I'll stand by my statement.


That said, you've got a really good point that a bunch of people won't like the game for a bunch of different reasons, and that they are perfectly entitled to their opinions.  Some of the complaints don't hold much weight for me, but my opinion doesn't matter much when others are coming to grips with their own feelings about the game.


(And I don't mind if you put some flame-y sounding content out, as should be obvious by now.  Anything to lively up this discussion. Just don't take any of my responses too seriously!)

3452

TalkBack / Re: A Hidden Gem and a Nostalgic Platformer

« on: August 14, 2012, 09:58:55 PM »

Mole Mania is indeed good, but I got the original cart so I can bask in the Super Game Boy features.

I still like Wario Land, but I don't disagree with the recommendation. The later games in the series have clearly surpassed it, and so I think only people with an explicit interest in Wario's roots (or old games in general) would like the game today.

Oooh!  What Super Game Boy features did Mole Mania have?  I own the original cartridge too... sadly, the bonus features don't show up on my GameCube Game Boy Player.

As for your Wario Land comment, the retroactive discussion for Wario Land 4 has seen some fairly negative opinions so far. It makes me wonder if those people would prefer the game design of the original as it tends to stick a lot closer to traditional platforming roots...

3453

TalkBack / Re: 3D Classics Excitebike Joins Club Nintendo's Reward Catalog

« on: August 14, 2012, 09:55:38 PM »

I had been thinking about this reward, but am glad to hear some negative viewpoints to help make up my mind. Racing games really aren't my thing anyway so I was mostly just buying because (a) it's in 3D and (b) it's "free". 


Thanks!  You guys just saved my points for another day.
 

3454

Podcast Discussion / Re: RetroActive #23: Wario Land 4 (Official Discussion)

« on: August 14, 2012, 09:49:32 PM »

Wario Land 4 isn't a perfect game but a lot of the complaints here seem to fall into "lazy gamer" categories than "poor design".

No. Just...no. There's a reason why Zelda games don't make you burn random bushes to find dungeons anymore, homie.

And have we learned nothing from the Lair fiasco?

If a lot of people complain about some aspect of a game, they didn't like it. It's sort of the whole point of giving your opinion. It's not "playing the game wrong".

You are taking one sentence from my argument out of context and then offering comparisons that aren't similar on a lot of important levels.


Where does Wario Land 4 make you burn random bushes? Almost nothing in the game is just randomly hidden - level design and graphical hints give away virtually all of the secrets for anyone who pays attention. (The rest of the secrets should be found through normal exploration - part of the Wario Land series from day 1.)


Not paying attention to (or at least remembering) then controls in a simple 2D platformer, refusing to check the manual or replay the mandatory in-game tutorial, and then blaming the game for not introducing certain moves doesn't really compare to having extremely difficult or broken controls.


I never said the game was perfect, and am not trying to dismiss all criticism of it. But some of the complaints posted here aren't very meaningful and sound like people came in with expectations instead of just trying to experience the game.


("I play CounterStrike competitively and when I try to play Halo the same way it doesn't work very well. Therefore Halo sucks." WTF? No! Approach different games with a clean slate instead of trying to apply lessons learned in one game directly to the other. Even if Mario games have taught you to avoid enemies on pain of death in all cases, you aren't playing a Mario game so leave that preconception at the door.)

3455

General Gaming / Game Trades?

« on: August 14, 2012, 05:48:50 PM »

I've got a handful of games that I'm interested in trading away, but with Goozex dying (or at least on life-support) at the moment have lost my usual avenue for such activity.

Does anyone have recommendations about a good alternative for trading Nintendo games? Or maybe I'm best to just wait until GameStop  has an appealing trade-in offer?

For reference, the games I have are:
  Broken Sword (Wii)
  Metroid Prime Trilogy (Wii) SOLD
  Star Fox (3DS) SOLD
  Nintendogs (3DS)

3456

TalkBack / Re: A Hidden Gem and a Nostalgic Platformer

« on: August 14, 2012, 12:46:43 PM »

Wario Land is a tougher call. I have very fond memories of playing this game, and uncovering the myriad of secrets each level as I worked to build the highest possible coin total I could, but the slow pace and relatively uninspired level design doesn't hold up well years later. Worth it for nostalgia alone in my case... but hard to recommend to anyone who hasn't played the game in their past.

Well, the only Wario Land game I had ever played before picking the VC release was Shake It and I personally fell in love with the game boy game.  I thought the platforming was a lot of fun and searching for all of the treasures after my first time beating the game was challenging in the best way.  Maybe I'm just an outlier, but I've beaten the game three times since it release a few weeks ago and it's quickly become one of my favorite platformers on the 3DS.

Glad (if a bit surprised) to hear it!  I don't want to oversell the game due to personal nostalgia, and really didn't think people would be so excited about this game.  Would love to be wrong about that.

3457

Podcast Discussion / Re: RetroActive #23: Wario Land 4 (Official Discussion)

« on: August 14, 2012, 12:37:12 PM »

(Wario apologist, since NOT ENOUGH OTHERS seem interested in standing up for the game.)

Ahem.

Fixed.
 

3458

Podcast Discussion / Re: Episode 300: SPARTAAA!!!

« on: August 14, 2012, 12:34:55 PM »

But despite that, the Balance Board ended up with a small number of neat applications that were worth experiencing

Have you played Rock N Roll Climber? Not the best game, but absolutely worth experiencing if you have a Balance Board. :-)

It's funny how so many Wiiware games can simultaneously make me warn people that "it's not very good" while bringing a huge smile to my face as I recall the experience of playing them.

WiiWare was good for that. A lot of novel ideas that didn't necessarily translate into good games but were ridiculous enough to be worth checking out. Let's Catch is on my "to buy" list after hearing it discussed in a recent podcast... I mean, that story description... WTF?

3459

TalkBack / Re: A Hidden Gem and a Nostalgic Platformer

« on: August 14, 2012, 11:33:54 AM »

Totally agree with Neal's recommendations for these games.

Mole Mania is a game I played a year or two ago, and it really was charming with some great puzzles. Seeing it get a small revival on 3DS Virtual Console it great - hopefully people will give it a shot!


Wario Land is a tougher call. I have very fond memories of playing this game, and uncovering the myriad of secrets each level as I worked to build the highest possible coin total I could, but the slow pace and relatively uninspired level design doesn't hold up well years later. Worth it for nostalgia alone in my case... but hard to recommend to anyone who hasn't played the game in their past.


Somehow I bet that Wario Land will sell better than Mole Mania anyway. Name recognition and nostalgia go a long way with Virtual Console sales.

3460

Podcast Discussion / Re: RetroActive #23: Wario Land 4 (Official Discussion)

« on: August 14, 2012, 11:19:06 AM »

(Wario apologist, since nobody else seems interested in standing up for the game.)

...
Very good points. As were the points someone else made earlier about the game not teaching you properly all the moves before thrusting you in levels that require them, like the Super Butt Stomp.

I beat the final boss last night, and honest question: how did anyone ever figure out how to use the hammer? I had to look it up.

The very first (ie: mandatory tutorial) level teaches you how to do the Super Butt Stomp and shows you when it is required. You can also check the manual to gets tips or hints about where and when to apply Wario's different moves.


Using the hammer in the final boss battle is one of the trickiest parts of the game because by that point you aren't thinking about changing Wario's form - I don't recall having to do that for any other boss in the game.  But you would've come in contact with hammer enemies before that use the same weapon sprite. Even if you don't put 2+2 together yourself, it's very possible that you will discover the point of the hammer after throwing it at the boss and accidentally getting in the way where it lands. My one complaint here is that they didn't give some precedent with earlier bosses, or even earlier with the same boss fight, not that they added a cool element you have to figure out during the battle.

...  The game knows this but didn't tell me it's not the standard here.  The idea of using status effects to solve puzzles is great!  However, I have to find out by accident.  This would generally be forgivable, BUT the game tosses in enemies that do nothing but damage you, reinforcing the original teachings to avoid all moving things.  That's where the game gets frustrating.  I don't like being expected to fail to succeed.  If I fell down a pit, it's because I messed up... surprise!  I was supposed to drop there to find a treasure.  Now I find myself chucking Wario down every hole.  ...

There are almost always strong clues and hints about where secrets are placed, and while interactions with enemies aren't outright explained they are often suggested. So the trial-and-error really shouldn't be as bad as suggested as you are typically give clear direction about where to go (or subtle direction about where secrets reside).


As for figuring out how to transform Wario, the manual describes all of Wario's different forms and there are some places where transformations are essentially forced. It's also the fourth game in the series. Learning how to change forms and what each new form allows you to do is part of the fun of exploration for many people, not a gameplay burden.




If people don't like the game because it challenges some of their expectations and standards, I can understand but not really sympathize. Wario Land 4 isn't a perfect game but a lot of the complaints here seem to fall into "lazy gamer" categories than "poor design".  Keep your eyes peeled and your thinking cap on while playing instead of just assuming that old Mario paradigms should always apply here too!


(Apologist mode off.  Caveat: There are some design areas that clearly could've been improved in the game and I don't really think all the concerns posted are due to gamers being lazy. However, I do think that some of the complaints posted in this thread come from people applying expectations to the game prior to playing instead of just exploring the game with an open mind.)

3461

Podcast Discussion / Re: Episode 301: Mechanical Sphincters

« on: August 14, 2012, 10:34:09 AM »

Don't y'all read the articles? Don't treat us writers like Playboy!

Unless you've got a grotto.

3462

Podcast Discussion / Re: Episode 300: SPARTAAA!!!

« on: August 14, 2012, 10:25:54 AM »

Remember when Shaun White made the Balance Board cool again?

I'm confused on two counts. I wasn't aware that the balance board was ever cool, or that Shaun White of all people was involved in making it cool for a second time.
 
Any time I hear the words 'Shaun White' all I can think about is this
 
(YouTube link snipped)


Ain't nothing cool about that.

See, and this is my problem with the Wii generation: far too often, people judged without playing and weren't willing to try something new.

The Balance Board was cool in the way it brought video games to a whole new market. Having the opportunity to share something I love with friends and family who normally wouldn't be interested is the definition of cool to me - and the "exclusive" or "hardcore" culture that some gamers want to build up and cling to as a form of self-definition is bullshit from my point of view. The Balance Board also made people approach playing games from a different perspective, leveling the playing field so to speak. Yes, it was a total gimmick with an extremely limited range of use. But despite that, the Balance Board ended up with a small number of neat applications that were worth experiencing - with Shaun White being one of the best applications.

As for the Nintendo press conference being extremely lame, that has remarkably little to do with how much fun playing Shaun White can be with a couple of friends. Both on my own and with friends, in a party setting (with beverages) or in quieter moments, the two Shaun White Snowboarding games have been a huge success around these parts.

(I believe that Pixelated Pixes was at least half-joking with his response, but most people making those statements are totally serious. And they typically missed out on a bunch of really cool games because of those lame attitudes.)

3463

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Club Nintendo Thread

« on: August 13, 2012, 03:32:42 PM »

...

Your math is still all over the place. Club Nintendo coins don't have the same value as other programs - you admit so directly - so trying to make that comparison is pointless. Club Nintendo tries to give roughly 1 coin per dollar spent when registering new games, although surveys and special offers and sale pricing all affect that ratio.


My complaint is where you state that Kairon "spent $9 on the thing" which is obviously not true on multiple levels.

3464

TalkBack / Re: The 3DS Fall Might Break Its Back

« on: August 13, 2012, 03:07:22 PM »

To date, there has been exactly one 3DS retail game that I actually cared about owning. (There is also a small handful of quality games that don't appeal to me. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how "good" a game is if it doesn't appeal: I'm still not buying or playing it.)


The platform hasn't been a disappointment because of a fairly strong digital lineup and full backward compatibility... but it's been far from a standout system and hardly something I could recommend to my friends.

3465

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Club Nintendo Thread

« on: August 13, 2012, 12:53:11 PM »

Must... enter... more surveys... get enough coins for a... second golden nunchuk!!!!

Edit: I registered Pokepark Wii and XenoBlade. That put me over the top and I ordered TWO of these babies. You are now all allowed to hate my guts.

How much do you want for the second one? :

I... I... if you think about each Club Nintendo coin as the equivalent of 1 dollar spending, I spent $900 for that golden nunchuk... @_@ I'm having a hard time thinking of a good reason for me to part with it, sorry...

Wait...wait...wait...seriously?  Would you please explain how you think one Nintendo coin is worth $1?  Any reward program usually equates to about 1 penny for each point.  So really, you spent $9 on the thing which is a steal.

What reward programs are you in?  Protip: programs that give you a point per penny aren't selling cool stuff at 900 points.


Club Nintendo points are somewhere in the middle.  You can definitely get better rates than a dollar per point, but the opportunity for points is limited by the number of games released and pricing isn't consistent.


There is no way you'll be grabbing one of these nunchucks for $9 without moderate effort (searching for deals and then reselling) or tremendous luck (someone selling stupid low after the fact).  The normal nunchuck still goes for considerably more than that price, and isn't a limited item.

3466

TalkBack / Re: Nintendo Reveals Massive List of Release Dates

« on: August 13, 2012, 12:43:28 PM »

Given that list I'm unlikely to buy any new retail 3DS games for the rest of the year.  A few of the retail games are mildly interesting, but not stuff I'd pay full price for.


Not really a complaint though. Fluidity on the eShop might be cool (please be a whole new game!) and I've got plenty of backlog to play through.  Here's hoping for Monster Hunter, Luigi's Mansion, Fire Emblem, and Animal Crossing all in 2013!  Not games that appeal to everyone, but that would be a banner year for me...
 

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TalkBack / Re: Fluidity: Spin Cycle Revealed for eShop

« on: August 13, 2012, 12:40:00 PM »

There are a couple of potentially interesting games, but I agree that a portable Fluidity is the best news. If it's an all new game instead of a port, I'll probably grab this one.

3468

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Xenoblade Chronicles.Confirmed for North America April 6th 2012

« on: August 10, 2012, 04:38:45 PM »

Also, if it does happen to you, just remember the bigger and better equipment is never far away in this game.  It's a virtual loot paradise.

3469

Podcast Discussion / Re: Episode 300: SPARTAAA!!!

« on: August 10, 2012, 02:09:12 PM »

I was kind of disappointed at times with episode 300. When looking back, I prefer something with a bit more love and joy than straight retrospective - even when criticism and comments are dead on. However, this is why I love the podcast crew here: they talk about the good stuff and the bad stuff, with a lot of solid analysis about where and when things went both right and wrong.


Here's hoping we still get an inebriated 301 though, filled with "remember when..." moments that bring back favorite Wii escapades from various voices with a lot of laughter and love.


Remember when your friend got totally screwed over in Dokapon Kingdom, only to come back and screw you like you've never been done before?  Remember when you played Bit.Trip Runner as a drinking game for the first time? Remember when that grass felt like pants? Remember when you stayed up until 2am every night to hunt bugs and grief your roommate in Animal Crossing? Remember when Shaun White made the Balance Board cool again? Remember when you thought it was a good idea for the team to take on Alatreon in nothing but their boxers? Remember when co-op play in Trauma Center New Blood nearly led to blows after failed open heart surgery gone wrong? Remember when ... FuckTruck?


Don't know about you guys, but when I think back on Wii it will be dominated by lots of laughter and some great times with friends.

3470

TalkBack / Re: Gold Nunchuk on US Club Nintendo

« on: August 09, 2012, 03:08:06 PM »

If I had 900 points this would be pretty cool.  If I had a gold Wii remote it would be even cooler.
Sadly, I have neither.


However, I do have a bunch of great games that were downloaded via Club Nintendo, so it's hard to feel too bad.

3471

TalkBack / Re: 3DS XL: The Comically Large Handheld

« on: August 09, 2012, 11:20:07 AM »

I would argue that the sweet spot is smaller and easier to accidentally move out of.

No docking station is a bummer, but surely there will be one offered later.  So no big deal.


But this is disappointing news. The "sweet spot" for good 3D already seems terribly limited with the original 3DS - small enough that I rarely use the feature while gaming because it's too easy to shift slightly and lose the effect during play. If that becomes even more difficult to use then I'll be put off the feature entirely unless more appealing 3D movies start being provided on the system. Guess it's a good thing they improved the 3D slider.


Also, I am curious about the claim that finding a big enough pocket "isn't as tall of an order as you might think".  Where is Neal (or others) finding these extra large pockets?  As someone who doesn't carry a bag, and doesn't wear coats during the summer, the existing 3DS already seems almost too large to carry.




(Despite my complaints, I'm still kind of interested in 3DS XL. The bigger screens would be great for Netflix, or playing retro games, or just getting the poop scared out of me in Resident Evil.  I'm just not interested enough to be an early adopter, especially when it gives no new features outside of "look how huge everything is!")

3472

TalkBack / Re: Nintendo, The App Poacher

« on: August 08, 2012, 03:23:44 PM »

Meh.  Personally, I enjoy a lot of cheap and novel video game experiences... but usually that means games in the $5-10 range.  Once you start going under $5 (which means the majority of iOS releases) the quality and depth that I want becomes much harder to find.


That doesn't mean it's not present though. There are some amazing games on iOS.  One thing that I'm insanely jealous of are the board game ports that get brought over. Stuff like Ticket to Ride and Ghost Stores, San Juan and Tigris & Euphrates, Ascension and Summoner Wars and Forbidden Island. These are all well-received board games where the design challenge is largely taken care of and all iOS developers need to worry about is a good user interface and providing a solid feature set for connecting with other players.  They are also great bite-sized experiences in most cases and incredibly cheap.


Would I be happy to see Nintendo pursue some of these titles, or other strong iOS games, for their handheld?  You bet!  But I'm not holding my breath. Developing for 3DS takes more time and incurs more expense.  The ability to quickly turn around software updates or develop on the cheap isn't there right now... and there is also added red tape and expense from outside sources (such as ESRB). Beyond that, the market of 3DS owners is much smaller, so niche titles like board game conversions that might draw reasonable sales from the large iOS install base would likely suffer.


Poaching apps sounds like a good idea, but I don't think it will work in practice. At least not most of the time.

3473

Podcast Discussion / Re: RFN RetroActive Game Nominations

« on: August 07, 2012, 10:45:17 PM »

Fluidity is available through Club Nintendo again until Aug 19th.  Seems like a great time to do a Retroactive on the game, since some people could get it without any actual cash outlay.

3474

TalkBack / Re: NWR Community Night 8/6/2012 - Players' Choice

« on: August 07, 2012, 08:44:53 AM »

How did this go?  It was too late for me due to timezones (can't please everyone) but I'm curious if you got a better turnout this time around.

3475

Nintendo Gaming / Re: Official Club Nintendo Thread

« on: August 06, 2012, 08:15:18 PM »

It's actually a *bit* good to hear that some rewards cycle, since I missed out on Dr. Mario xPress.

As long as the games are good, I have no problem seeing them get recycled. Lots of people missed out on Fluidity - even if it was "given away" once before - but it's a really impressive game that offers a ton of interesting play. Trading 150 points for a game that is normally $15 $12 is a pretty good deal too.


When Urban Champion 3D Classics gets recycled on Club Nintendo I'll be less enthused.