Nintendo World Report Forums

Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Stratos on September 04, 2020, 03:56:19 PM

Title: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 04, 2020, 03:56:19 PM
So I was all on the train for 3D All Stars and pre-ordered, but the morning after I'm feeling some doubts. I realize I have access to all of these on the original systems easily. Also, it looks like these are only marginally upscaled ports, so I'm wondering if it would even be a good deal as a convenience charge to play on a current system.

Has the de-compiled Mario 64 project spoiled me? That offers 60fps 4k with boosted asset, and modders are quickly adding the extra content from the DS version.

Especially with the "All Stars" moniker, it got me thinking about the one that is free on the SNES Online app. That one was a collection of  4 (5 if you could the Mario World combo) games, and all of them received upgraded assets and other improvements.

Feels like we should be getting more bang for our buck at $60. If they didn't want to go through the effort of adding the Mario 64 DS features to the original, they could have thrown in the Wii U DS version as a bonus. And the omision of Galaxy 2 was pretty big. Are there any other games that could have fit in there (that weren't ported separately).

What are your thoughts on it? Are you buying all of the Nintendo up-ports? I've bought a few of the ports (Lego City Undercover, Hyrule Warriors, Mario Kart, and Captain Toad come to mind) but I've been (and will be) holding off on some of the other ports in the hopes of a better deal (NSMBU, SM3DW, Pikmin 3). I've also double dipped on occasion (Mario Kart, Lego City, Hyrule Warriors).

As it stands I may cancel my pre-order since that is now possible. Only thing I'd miss out on is probably the exclusive pin set.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 04, 2020, 04:59:11 PM
For $60, Super Mario 3D All-Stars is a pretty weak collection. With Galaxy 2 and the minimal improvements, it should have been $40, maybe $50 for the Nintendo Tax®. The existence of the original Super Mario All-Stars makes Super Mario 3D All-Stars harder to accept as is. Granted, 3D games are a lot more complex than 2D games. I think Nintendo could have done better. Overall, it just seems like a minimal effort release that feels more Super Mario All-Stars 25th Anniversary Edition ROM-dump than the SNES original.

To the general public, 🤷‍♀️. Super Mario 3D All-Stars is going to sell-out and be a scalper's wet dream for the next forever. Here's what I would have wanted:

That said, I have the collection pre-ordered. I haven't bought all the Wii U ports, only Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (both double dips). I would have bought Bayonetta 1 and 2 if Nintendo didn't pull that split cart/digital download nonsense.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 04, 2020, 05:03:36 PM
I rarely double dip on games. Ironically, I was willing to jump on on the VC this generation so as to probably sell off some of my older consoles and just have easier access to games by having many tied to one system but then the VC died. However, with 3DS, Wii U and Switch still being easily accessed by me and set-up, I can probably manage something with titles split across those three. Plus, I got the SNES Mini and that allowed me to load up the system with most titles I'd want and no longer have to worry about carts or batteries dying in them.

Still, I've digressed like usual. The main point still stands that I've very rarely ever double dipped on titles because it doesn't make sense to me to buy a game I already own instead of something new that I've never played unless there is significant factors to make the purchase stand out from the original. I've got multiple games in my library but most of them came that way be being free or being very cheap. For instance, I have three copies of Metroid Fusion. The first I bought was the GBA copy since I had a DS and could now play GBA games. I later got a free version on my 3DS from the Ambassador program and another free version on the Wii U because of some kind of promotion or Club Nintendo thing. In the case of the SNES mini, buying that was sort of like rebuying those games but the price proposition was worth it plus the improvements like the rewind feature and being able to add more to the library.

One of the first games I double-dipped on was Kirby Super Star Ultra for DS. While it added some extra things, I don't find any of them better or of added value from the original base game. Likewise, I later got a copy of DKCR for 3DS for a pretty low price. I had liked the title quite a bit when playing it on the Wii and was curious how it handle without motion controls and what the extra added levels were like. Ultimately, the extra levels were pretty forgettable but I did like playing it without motion controls although it lost a bit in the visuals compared to the console version. Thus it was a mixed bag. With the deal I got on my Switch, it meant that MK8 Deluxe was only $30 which is a pretty good price for a game I wasn't really interested in getting again after having it for the Wii U. Truth be told, I've hardly touched it much on Switch aside from when some people have come over and we might play a few rounds. When thinking of double-dipping, these are the titles that come to my mind first.

From my experience, I've found that double-dipping has rarely been worth it. Even when I've been able to get a title on the lower end of the price scale, I'm still not sure if I overpaid. Going back to Metroid Fusion, I played it multiple times on my GBA copy, I played it once on the Ambassador program and I barely touched it on my Wii U. I think it would be the same with the 3D All-Stars. I could see myself playing through all the games again once but I'm not sure I'd touch it anytime soon after that. In which case, I could go and play the versions I already own instead if I really want one more round of these games. Since the additions to these games are kind of minimal to change the experience from the original, I've been pretty much leaning in the pass category. I'm already not a fan of G1 and I don't think playing it again on Switch is going to change my mind. While I still enjoy 64, I'm not feeling any desire to play it again right away. While Sunshine is my jam and the biggest thing tugging my towards a purchase of this title, my GC is still hooked up to my TV and sound system ready to play and now has the official component cables. I popped the game in for a quick spin last winter to see what it looks like. Not much change but ended up going to Sirena Beach as I often do when messing around with the game. Collected all the coins I could on the beach and then fought the Manta Ray beating it in one go. Still got them Sunshine skills. Remembering that has further helped me fight the gaming nostalgia Nintendo may be preying on for getting people to jump on this title.

Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 04, 2020, 06:13:44 PM
My general feeling is that collections like this or special editions and such are great for newcomers.  But if I bought a game at the time, I don't buy an updated version later on unless it's a major overhaul like Metroid: Zero Mission.  I have bought arcade compilations that had games I already owned in it and I bought a lot of the recent mini consoles but each time there was some game in there that I didn't have so the redundant titles were more extras.  I've actually done the opposite where I bought some retro collection and then ended up getting the original release later.

I want people to have access to classic games and you shouldn't have to own a bunch of old systems and hunt down an out-of-print game to do it.  When records went to CDs or VHS went to DVDs you could get the noteworthy albums and movies in the new format quite easily.  I understand with software it is not as easy to do that since everything relies on the hardware it was designed for but with emulation and backwards compatibility I still think a much stronger effort can be made to always have the classics available for purchase.  There are always new kids becoming the age where they want to check out the games from before their time.

I don't have a problem with newcomers buying an old game on a new system.  I don't have much of a problem with someone buying a game they already owned at some point on a newer system so they don't have to keep old hardware hooked up, if the price is reasonable.  I've repurchased some old PC games from my youth where I don't know where the discs are and the game cost $5.  I didn't pay $60 for it.  I don't like people buying a game for the second time because Malibu Stacy has a new hat.  There is a deliberate strategy for companies to pad their release schedule with ports that have a bit of new content in it to get people to double-dip.  That's generally a rip-off and those with self-restraint get punished for it, because enough people do it that it encourages it.

Notice that you don't see as many retro compilations as you did during the PS2/Xbox/Cube era?  Notice that Nintendo has never had a VC as strong as the Wii one was?  Notice that backwards compatibility has disappeared?  That's because the buying behavior of people double-dipping has encouraged the market to push HD remasters.  The PS5 made a big stink about GTA 5 being on it.  If you want GTA 5 it's on tons of platforms brand new for like $20.  Yet, there will be people that buy a PS5 and the first game they get will be GTA 5, even though they already played it on the PS3 and/or PS4.  GTA 5 should be on any popular new system but it should be an afterthought.  Super Mario Bros should be on every Nintendo platform on day one but with no real fanfare to it, just there in case you've never played it and you should be able to.  But these re-releases shouldn't be filling gaps in the release schedule or being charged full price.  A Nintendo Direct focusing on re-releases is pretty damn absurd.

New games should be the focus, old games should be available at a lower price to be an accessible option for new players.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 04, 2020, 06:23:18 PM
Let's talk Switch Port City.

BotW - Wasn't my intention to buy it again but when I got my Switch it was part of the library that came with it. Got it for 50% of the price. Let someone else play it but I've hardly touched it after spending 400 hours on the Wii U version. Debate keeping it in my library or selling/trading it for something else.

MK8D - Part of my Switch purchase. Maybe 5 or 6 hours played. I do like the change in Battle Mode (although I was ok with the Wii U's take on it) and it is a popular title to play with other people so I'll probably keep it in my library but I still feel I overpaid for it at 50% off.

Pokken Tournament - Part of my Switch purchase. Never got it on Wii U so not a double dip. Have yet to still even try it.

Bayonetta 2 - Just not interested in this series.

DKC:TR - Have the Wii U version which I've still yet to play (though that will be changing very soon this month) and see no need to buy the Switch version also. Do not see myself ever acquiring this port.

Hyrule Warriors - Have the Wii U version and then bought the 3DS version because of a really good deal on Amazon one day. Started the Wii U version but never got back to it. Haven't opened the 3DS version. Absolutely not getting the Switch version. Paid enough already for a game I'm not playing.

Sushi Striker - I bought it on 3DS which is where it seemed to be the system it was designed for. Have yet to try it. Even with the Switch version getting highly discounted, not interested in double dipping for it here.

Captain Toad - Finally played my Wii U copy last year. It was a pleasant experience but not one so great that I feel the need to get the Switch copy for a few extra stages using Odyssey assets. Considering the stages that used 3D World assets, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything.

Lego City Undercover - Have it on Wii U. Haven't played it. Not going to get it for Switch when I can still play it on Wii U someday.

The World Ends With You - Horribly reviewed port and I never finished the original. Easy skip. No double dip.

Let's Go, Pikachu/Eevee - Essentially a sort of port of Red/Blue but with upgraded visuals and different catching mechanics. A more simplified / streamlined version of the game from my understanding. I actually have Pikachu. Got it for a low price but have yet to play it. Still have LeafGreen and FireRed to play. Still not sure if I want to keep this copy.

NSMBU Deluxe - Barely enjoyed it when I played my Wii U copy but Luigi U was lit but not enough to make me replay the original game or need a Switch version. Not double-dipping unless free.

Link's Awakening - I was weak and got the Collector's Edition. Visual upgrades with better control helped sell me on this port / remaster though I've yet to get to it as I play other Zelda titles I haven't gotten to before.

Tokyo Mirage Sessions - I got it for half off on Wii U and haven't played it. (Notice a trend with me and Wii U gaming?). I'll play it there with the GamePad instead as it was meant to be played! No double dip.

Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Works - Got the Collector's edition. Technically a triple dip as I had a 3DS and Wii copy already. Played this Switch version which is my first time playing it. Tried the 3DS version a bit to compare the two. Very glad I waited until Switch to play it but not sure it was worth the cost of buying the previous copy. Currently trying to sell off my Wii copy to recoup some cost since I see no need to play that version now. Worth double-dipping if you've played it before? Maybe. Definitely some improvements in control and graphics and managing the in-game systems. But no real changes to story although the Future Connected epilogue portion may help in giving a returning player something fresh. But it is a much shorter experience than the main game.

Pikmin 3 - No plans to double dip as I'd rather play it on Wii U with the gamepad.

Mario 3D All-Stars - Going to skip unless I can get it for a smoking deal.

3D World - Wasn't really as over-the-moon with this game. Like 3D Land and Galaxy 2 much more. Was going to skip until the addition of online co-op was mentioned. Currently see-sawing back and forth on this.

Are there other parts I'm not thinking of? Most likely. From my experience of the titles I've double dipped on is that double-dipping really isn't worth it. Even at a lower cost, the cost of the second copy combined with the first probably isn't worth the price for one title especially with how one is likely to play less of the second copy than the first. Law of Diminishing Returns may be in play. It seems a port is only worth it if you've never played it before and don't own a copy already. Double-dipping is great for a sudden nostalgic burst but it seems to fade just as quick.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 04, 2020, 07:20:25 PM
I’ve double dipped a lot on Switch because portability is a huge selling point for me.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Mr. Bungle on September 05, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
My stance is similar to Khushrenada's for a lot of these games, though I appear to have played more of them   8)
I find that for most ports from Wii U or 3DS I would rather play them on their original hardware. I think MK8 is the one exception which I find controls better on switch and I really like the battle mode, There could be some argument that Smash Ultimate, Splatoon 2, and Mario Maker 2 are enhanced ports. I bought all three of these on switch and Mario Maker is the only one I prefer on Wii U because of the Gamepad functionality.

I have bought second copies of a couple of third party games as well:

I think a contributing factor to these purchase decisions is your console set up. I have a decent amount of space and have all my consoles hooked up at all times. This makes it easy to use them all at any given time. If I only had one console hooked up to my TV then I might want to buy everything again on that one system.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on September 05, 2020, 02:01:33 PM
I'm getting it, but pretty much only because I'm using GS reward certs to bring the price down to $45 + tax. The removal of mandatory motion controls from Galaxy is a big selling point to me, and I'd like to see if Mario Sunshine is as bad as I remember.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 05, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
I typically have no issues with companies releasing enhanced ports and remasters as long as they play well. How someone chooses to spend their money is their business. I'll often find myself balking at the price then deciding whether I want to spend full price on it, wait for a sale, or ignore it entirely.

Looking over my games, I'm surprised I didn't buy more enhanced ports and remasters. I technically didn't buy The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest and The Legend of Zelda: Collector's Edition discs on GameCube, but I have them. I didn't buy any Virtual Console games or the New Play Control! Wii ports. I bought Metroid Prime Trilogy on Wii for $20, right before it went out of print.

For me, there normally has to be a specific reason why I double dipped.

I don't count the NES Classic Edition or SNES Classic Edition. I didn't have many of the included games, and both mini-consoles were for ease of use as well as the novelty.

Personally, I feel as if I have displayed a tremendous amount of restraint with the enhanced Wii U ports to Switch. I passed on most of them so far. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's Battle Mode is infinitely better than that fuckery on the Wii U original. Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze has much better load times on Switch. I probably could have lived with waiting for sales on both though. I don't count The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening because it's a complete remake. I would probably buy The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker HD again, preferably in a collection and/or on sale. I plan on buying Super Mario 3D World if only for Bowser's Fury. I should wait for a sale. Will I? 🤷‍♀️

Recently, I bought The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX and Wario Land II (black cartridge enhanced for Game Boy Color) on eBay. I have a free download of Link's Awakening DX on 3DS, and I don't know what I did with my original Wario Land II cartridge. They were primarily for my Game Boy modding projects/future Analogue Pocket purchase.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on September 06, 2020, 01:35:43 PM
It's not something I'm interested in since I've already played 2/3. What tips it into unacceptable for me is the time limited stuff. It's transparently arbitrary and only meant to inflate demand
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 06, 2020, 06:58:44 PM
I realize I have a port/game buying problem. I tend to buy games for the sake of buying them and never get around to them. It becomes apparent when a friend asked how I'm doing with 'X' game and I have to reply that I haven't had time to return to it and I just went through talking about other games I've been playing. Thinking I need to dial down the purchases. Going digital actually seems to be helping with this, as there isn't a rush to grab the physical edition before it sells out. I can hold out for the eventual eshop price drops that even Nintendo games experience over time.

I do wonder about if my port purchases have been worth it. Worth looking over to decide if I need to really work on changing my game buying habits, especially with certain life changing events coming up that will surely make me question these decisions more.

Captain Toad - Sorta worth it, don't regret it
I skipped on Wii U so picked up, especially for the co-op, but only gotten to play a couple of times.

Assassins Creed Rebel Collection - No cost to consider
I own AC4 on Wii U but this was gifted to me. Didn't play much of the Wii U edition so will be nice to play portable (portable = flexible play style for me thanks to system sleep).

Hyrule Warriors - Not worth it at full price, but will probably make up the play value in the future
Gifted the Wii U version but never played it, and wanted the extra DLC and improved game performance. Only played for a few hours so should have waited for a sale.

Links Awakening - No cost to consider, but glad it was gifted
Gifted to me, but probably would have gotten it anyways since its one of my favorite Zelda's and I replay it every few years

Lego City Undercover - Sorta worth it, don't regret it
Played some of the original, but wanted the improved load times and the added co-op mode for the story. Also weren't that many Switch games available to buy, but could have waited for a sale since I didn't get too much play time early on with it.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe - The amount of play time on this title has made it worth the double dip. No regrets
I owned the Wii UI version and the DLC, but having a big multiplayer/party game like this on the Switch early on was and still is great. I don't always have the Wii U setup and available to play, and the Switch is much more friendly to carry around in a small bag.

Minecraft - Been a great play value on Switch
I've bought this like 4 times (OG PC, Wii U, Switch physical, Switch digital). Only regret buying the Wii U version as I got very little use out of that one. Re-bought digital because the mileage on that game made it worth having available without needing to carry or find the cart, and gifted the physical one to a sibling, so its not really a double dip in that case as I would have bought a new one for them if I wasn't converting to digital.

Namco Meuseum - Should have waited for price drop
Bought this solely for Pacman VS, but been more of a pain to get a second person with a Switch to play it fully. Should have waited for a sale, but I'm sure eventually we'll make up the "play value" so to speak

Okami HD - Should have waited
I bought this on sale at least, but have not even booted it yet. I'll eventually replay it, but who knows when I'll get around to it.

Lets Go Pikachu - Happy with purchase
I had not played the original Red/Blue in a long time as I missed the Fire/Leaf remakes, so it was a nice trip down memory lane and the compatibility with Go added some extra value and allowed me to legitamately complete the full 150/151/153 dex for the first time without cheats. Made me excited for a Gold/Silver remake in the same vein because those were my favorite, but not sure if I'll jump on that right away.

Star Wars Jedi Knight 2 - Should have waited
This is more a time one. I don't have the time for all the game I buy and even the small sale discount I got probably wasn't worth it. I've played Jedi Academy more than this but both games I should have waited until I had time to play them intentionally. At least I missed Academy when it first came out until this one that I own from back in the day (though I never got fully through the original Jedi Knight back then either).

Turok - Some value, but could have waited
I bought this more on the hype/promise of Turok 2 coming with split screen local multiplayer, but the lack of that option for the Switch version killed my excitement for 2, but then the insane difficulty of 1 killed of my play of that one, and the levels are obnoxiously long without enough checkpints.

World ends With You - Should have waited/skipped
Game is unplayable outside of portable mode, and I didn't get very far in this one.

Looking at this list I have (5) positive purchases, (2) neutral, and (6) regretful ones. So I think I do need to tone down my purchases a bit, but more because of timing than anything else. If I waited for a good sale AND a good few days or weeks to dedicate to intnetionally playing them then it would resolve a lot of my issues.

This still leaves me with the decision of what to do with Mario 3D All Stars (and other ports like Pikmin 3 and Mario 3D World). I might cancel and just buy the Mario 64 DS version to play, and rely on the PC port for admiring the game in high resolution/graphics. I have Sunshine, my sister has Galaxy 1 I could borrow and two gamecubes, two Wiis and a Wii U. The only one I am truly missing is Mario 64 due to a lost cart. But there is the FOMO of this collection. I have some time to decide before cancelling my pre-order, but leaning towards cancelling. Only thing I would truly lose out on is the exclusive pin set that I'm not even guaranteed to get due to high demand and limited supplies.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 06, 2020, 08:24:50 PM
What tips it into unacceptable for me is the time limited stuff. It's transparently arbitrary and only meant to inflate demand
Which is strange because it isn't as if Nintendo needs to inflate demand. A Mario collection would just continue selling forever.
Captain Toad - Sorta worth it, don't regret it
I skipped on Wii U so picked up, especially for the co-op, but only gotten to play a couple of times.
If you skipped it on Wii U, I feel like it's new to you on Switch.

Anyway, if we're including third party ports/remasters:

Special mention to Okami. I bought it on Wii first then got a "pennied out" PS2 copy from Game Crazy. All in all, not terrible. I got many ports/remasters on sale or when Amazon was giving a 20% off pre-order bonus, and as stated, I got quite a few of the originals for free or as gifts.

I don't have any issues with companies releasing ports/remasters or people buying them. For me, sometimes I just don't want to drag the old console out of storage and the quality of life improvements are enticing enough to double dip. I've been meaning to pare down my video games. I have sentimental value for many of them, but I know I won't hook up the hold consoles to play them.

I've been a lot better in the past few years of just getting games I want, new or remaster. I distinctly remember almost double dipping on Code of Princess and The World Ends With You. I almost bought Hyrule Warriors Definitive Edition, but my brother said he wouldn't play it again, and I wasn't going to play it single-player.

I will probably buy Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition eventually, but I'll wait until I can get it for at least $40.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on September 06, 2020, 09:16:59 PM
Chrono Trigger (DS) is the best version of the game. It includes the Toei Animation FMV which I never saw as well as some additional content. Technically, this is the first time I personally bought Chrono Trigger.

Well, you're allowed to be wrong.  :P

Chrono Trigger's my favorite game, and I have a lot of issues with the DS port (most of which are admittedly nitpicky and fanboyish). Those Toei FMVs were created to replace scenes that were perfectly fantastic in-engine, and one of them was created specifically to try to retcon Chrono Cross into CT's ending, so it can **** right off.

And yeah, those extra dungeons were cut from the original release for a reason. They drag down the pace of the game, and aren't very good on their own (though it's cute that one of them uses a fantastic un-used song from the original soundtrack). And the one new ending is, once again, a retcon tie-in to Chrono Cross. Like the Toei ending FMV, it can **** right off for the same reason.

On the more nit-picky front, all versions after the SNES version got rid of this really neat transition the game occasionally does (most notably during the Ocean Palace & Rainbow Shell quests) where the screen wipes right into a follow-up scene. I don't know why. It's a great effect. I'm also just partial to the SNES translation in general.

The DS version is, fine, really. I just take issue with the general consensus that it's the "best version" by virtue of the sheer amount of extra crap crammed in to a game that was perfect just the way it was. I also despise Chrono Cross (I'm sure you guessed as much. I'm very subtle about that), so anything from that PoS contaminating Trigger's perfection just pisses me off.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Mr. Bungle on September 06, 2020, 10:02:12 PM
Namco Meuseum - Should have waited for price drop
Bought this solely for Pacman VS, but been more of a pain to get a second person with a Switch to play it fully. Should have waited for a sale, but I'm sure eventually we'll make up the "play value" so to speak

I waited and got the physical version for $20 on a price drop which seems worth it to me. I have only dabbled with dig-dug and pac-man but both are really strong arcade ports and the tate mode makes them great in table top mode.

Obviously these are ports of arcade games, but is this collection ported from a previous generation?

Okami HD - Should have waited
I bought this on sale at least, but have not even booted it yet. I'll eventually replay it, but who knows when I'll get around to it.

I did not catch this on Wii but played through the HD version on Switch and loved it. The game is great and the updated visuals are gorgeous. I played with split joy-con and used the gyro controls to draw the sigils. I found this to be pretty accurate and responsive and had fun with it. I also have the physical game imported from Japan which is really cool.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 07, 2020, 05:43:24 AM
I am not a traditional JRPG player.  I find the games to be quite tedious and the stories are just usually not worth it.  I still stand by the game that the most impressive video game stories can not compare to novels, TV shows, or what not.  So I play games for gameplay not stories.

That said.  I have beaten Chrono Trigger multiple times and it is my favorite traditional JRPG.  It is just such a perfectly designed story and game.  I tried to play other versions of it...but the magic is gone in my willingness to play a turn based RPG game.  What I will say, is I loved the New Game + feature and I would probably go through the story mode again with a new game + save.  That feeling of being all powerful is pretty cool.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: pokepal148 on September 07, 2020, 03:58:29 PM
I am shocked and disappointed that Okami HD is being mentioned as a disappointing port. The Switch version is easily the best version of that game because of portability and touch screen support for drawing. Also, since the Wii version is borderline unplayable at several points (The digging minigame can **** right off) it's well worth double dipping on if that's the only other version you have.

I am pretty willing to double dip on games I got for cheap the first time around and the Switch's portable nature has made it easier to justify repeat purchases so I want to focus on double dips I made on other consoles.

2180: the moon

I have this game on both the 3DS and Wii U but I just feel the game's concept of switching between the two screens works better on the Wii U.

Yoshi's Wooly World.

The problem with Yoshi is that imo it works better as a portable game. The art style also still holds up in it's scaled down form on 3DS.

Hyrule Warriors: Legends.

I literally got this used for $20 so I could laugh at how poorly it ran on my original 3DS. Spoiler alert: it runs like ****.

Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3.

The e-reader levels inticed me to double dip on the game on Wii U but I barely even touched it. Now that I have an everdrive I can run my LEGAL BACKUP of the Wii U VC Rom of the game on original hardware but I'm still happy I double dipped since that wouldn't have been possible without Nintendo doing the legwork there.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Lemonade on September 07, 2020, 04:33:50 PM
I have never finished any of the games in this collection. I dont really like them that much, but I havent played them for a very long time.

Because it is limited, I have preordered the physical version. I will revisit Galaxy first because it is newest and most playable.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 07, 2020, 05:41:49 PM
Because it is limited, I have preordered the physical version. I will revisit Galaxy first because it is newest and most playable.
*Ironside siren*
Khushrenada: *glares Khushrenadaly (https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=44021.0)*
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 07, 2020, 06:52:54 PM
I have never finished any of the games in this collection. I dont really like them that much, but I havent played them for a very long time.

Because it is limited, I have preordered the physical version. I will revisit Galaxy first because it is newest and most playable.

I will have to respectfully disagree with this entire point.  I find many old games more playable than modern games.  Super Mario World, Super Metroid, and Link to the Past are games I have literally beat countless times, because it is so playable. 

With Super Mario 3D All Stars, Super Mario 64 is easily one of the most playable and still enjoyable 3D platformers to date.  It is brilliant game...and although not perfect I would say it is more playable than Galaxy and Sunshine.  Heck it may be more playable than Odyssey.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: pokepal148 on September 07, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
I have never finished any of the games in this collection. I dont really like them that much, but I havent played them for a very long time.

Because it is limited, I have preordered the physical version. I will revisit Galaxy first because it is newest and most playable.

I will have to respectfully disagree with this entire point.  I find many old games more playable than modern games.  Super Mario World, Super Metroid, and Link to the Past are games I have literally beat countless times, because it is so playable. 

With Super Mario 3D All Stars, Super Mario 64 is easily one of the most playable and still enjoyable 3D platformers to date.  It is brilliant game...and although not perfect I would say it is more playable than Galaxy and Sunshine.  Heck it may be more playable than Odyssey.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/025/271/hot-take.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: nickmitch on September 07, 2020, 11:42:43 PM
The thread is getting spicy, I love it.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 08, 2020, 12:24:06 AM
For Super Mario 3D All-Stars, the lack of Galaxy 2 makes it a no deal for me.  Galaxy 2 is not only by far my favorite 3D Mario, but is also the perfect continuation of Galaxy 1.  Takes the basic concepts Galaxy 1 did but expands on them with an insane amount of new gameplay variety and a greater challenge.  If I was to purchase this collection, after playing Galaxy 1, I'd want to play Galaxy 2 right after, and that'd require me putting my original Wii disc, into my Wii U and playing the game in Wii mode.  Well if I have to do that, then I might as well just play Galaxy 1 the same way on my Wii U using the original disc as well.  And if my Wii U is already on, then I can also play Mario 64 since I got that as a Club Nintendo reward when they original ended that program.

So unless they made some major improvements to Sunshine, I'm not paying $60 just to play an HD upscaled version of that game.  It's be one thing if they were doing what Capcom did with the Mega Man Classic and X collections, and split this up in 3D All-Stars 1 with 64, Sunshine and Galaxy 1, then had 3D All-Stars 2 with 64 DS, Galaxy 2 and 3D Land but they're not.  As a limited run to celebrate Mario's 35th Anniversary, not having Galaxy 2 is just dumb and a major slap in the face to fans of that game.

For the Wii U ports, I personally don't mind them.  I got to play all these games on the Wii U years before they came out on Switch so it's not like I have to buy the Switch versions.  For something like Hyrule Warriors, I got about 30 hours of enjoyment from the original on Wii U before I got bored of the gameplay.  So having a version of the game with more content actually makes me want to play it less since one of my problems with the original is there's way too much content in the game for what is basically a repetitive beat-em-up button masher.

Now something like Caption Toad which I loved I plan on buying it for the new content someday, but will wait for a price cut since the new content ended up not being that much more substantial from what I've seen.  New Super Mario Bros U and Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze are two games I could see myself eventually buying on the Switch again because I loved the original Wii U versions, and having faster load times would be great, but will probably wait until close to the end of the systems lifespan to do so when they've had their prices greatly reduced.  Pikmin 3 is something I could see myself rebuying with the new content as well, but will probably wait until a price drop.

The only Wii U port I could see myself rebuying at full price is the upcoming 3D World + Bowsers Fury.  Something about the way Bowsers Fury is presented kind of makes me think this new content could be pretty substantial expansion to the game.  The way they're even calling the game, Mario 3D World + Bowsers Fury makes it literally sound like an expansion pack.  According to reports, the original Wii U version was 1.7 GB, while the upcoming Switch version is 5 GB.  Most of the time these Switch ports go down in size so for 3D World file size to become 3 times bigger, that kind of tells me there's a lot of new content being put in here.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 08, 2020, 12:34:14 AM
For Super Mario 3D All-Stars, the lack of Galaxy 2 makes it a no deal for me.  Galaxy 2 is not only by far my favorite 3D Mario, but is also the perfect continuation of Galaxy 1.  Takes the basic concepts Galaxy 1 did but expands on them with an insane amount of new gameplay variety and a greater challenge.  If I was to purchase this collection, after playing Galaxy 1, I'd want to play Galaxy 2 right after, and that'd require me putting my original Wii disc, into my Wii U and playing the game in Wii mode.  Well if I have to do that, then I might as well just play Galaxy 1 the same way on my Wii U using the original disc as well.  And if my Wii U is already on, then I can also play Mario 64 since I got that as a Club Nintendo reward when they original ended that program.

So unless they made some major improvements to Sunshine, I'm not paying $60 just to play an HD upscaled version of that game.  It's be one thing if they were doing what Capcom did with the Mega Man Classic and X collections, and split this up in 3D All-Stars 1 with 64, Sunshine and Galaxy 1, then had 3D All-Stars 2 with 64 DS, Galaxy 2 and 3D Land but they're not.  As a limited run to celebrate Mario's 35th Anniversary, not having Galaxy 2 is just dumb and a major slap in the face to fans of that game.

For the Wii U ports, I personally don't mind them.  I got to play all these games on the Wii U years before they came out on Switch so it's not like I have to buy the Switch versions.  For something like Hyrule Warriors, I got about 30 hours of enjoyment from the original on Wii U before I got bored of the gameplay.  So having a version of the game with more content actually makes me want to play it less since one of my problems with the original is there's way too much content in the game for what is basically a repetitive beat-em-up button masher.

Now something like Caption Toad which I loved I plan on buying it for the new content someday, but will wait for a price cut since the new content ended up not being that much more substantial from what I've seen.  New Super Mario Bros U and Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze are two games I could see myself eventually buying on the Switch again because I loved the original Wii U versions, and having faster load times would be great, but will probably wait until close to the end of the systems lifespan to do so when they've had their prices greatly reduced.  Pikmin 3 is something I could see myself rebuying with the new content as well, but will probably wait until a price drop.

The only Wii U port I could see myself rebuying at full price is the upcoming 3D World + Bowsers Fury.  Something about the way Bowsers Fury is presented kind of makes me think this new content could be pretty substantial expansion to the game.  The way they're even calling the game, Mario 3D World + Bowsers Fury makes it literally sound like an expansion pack.  According to reports, the original Wii U version was 1.7 GB, while the upcoming Switch version is 5 GB.  Most of the time these Switch ports go down in size so for 3D World file size to become 3 times bigger, that kind of tells me there's a lot of new content being put in here.

Yeah, but even that is sad.  Honestly, I was hoping for Super Mario 64 to be remade using the Odyssey graphics.  I mean basically every texture you would need is there.  But OK...some might say that isn't Mario 64 then.  Fine...at least add some stuff to make the game more playable and valuable.  I add the wall slide to make wall jumps easier.  Add the extra levels from Mario 64 DS.  And then maybe have all the extra characters unlockable after beating the game. 

Super Mario Sunshine...I would love for them to add a Blue Coin tracker...maybe as something you get after beating the game.  I mean Sunshine isn't a bad game, there are some issues with the camera and level design, but it isn't awful.  I don't think the game needs to add too much.  the HD upscale is probably enough.

Galaxy is the same, but like everyone else said Galaxy 2 should have been added.  Galaxy 2 is like the Lost Levels.  If it isn't in a collection I don't see them adding it period.  I Nintendo should have thought this through more.  Maybe they will make it a DLC for the package, or an update.  That would be nice.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 08, 2020, 03:22:07 AM
Galaxy 2 is my favorite 3D Mario game, but as someone who's likely to play this collection entirely in handheld mode I can live without it considering how cumbersome the heavy pointer use in that game would be under those circumstances. It would have been nice to at least let us try, though.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 08, 2020, 11:14:47 AM
Because it is limited, I have preordered the physical version. I will revisit Galaxy first because it is newest and most playable.
*Ironside siren*
Khushrenada: *glares Khushrenadaly (https://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=44021.0)*

Well said. That gets a Honk!

(However, I do agree that he should play Galaxy 1 first since its the worst. Best to get that over with quickly so the experience goes on an upward trend rather than a letdown later on. 8) )

The thread is getting spicy, I love it.

One thing this thread is making clear to me is that a lot of people sure like themselves a weak Mario game. (I'll take one Pinna Park level of climbing up chain link fences over two stars blowing up trash and blue coin searching over Spring Mario. C'mon!! >:( )

However, another thing this thread has shown me is that Galaxy 2 seems to be the big 3D Mario unifier. Everyone seems to love it (or at least like it a lot), everyone wishes it was included and Nintendo seems to have left it out just to make the fanbase turn on itself over the other three games included.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 08, 2020, 01:06:51 PM
However, another thing this thread has shown me is that Galaxy 2 seems to be the big 3D Mario unifier. Everyone seems to love it (or at least like it a lot), everyone wishes it was included and Nintendo seems to have left it out just to make the fanbase turn on itself over the other three games included.
I imagine the reaction would be the same if any of the Nintendo 64 to Wii 3D Mario games was missing. Everyone has been speculating to understand why Super Mario Galaxy 2 was left out.
The absence of Super Mario Galaxy 2 makes the price a lot harder to justify from a value perspective though that didn't stop pre-orders of Super Mario 3D All-Stars from being the second best selling game on Amazon (after Animal Crossing: New Horizons). Obviously, Nintendo didn't need to include Super Mario Galaxy 2 to sell the collection. It, does, however, make the company look greedy. Y'all already made your millions on these games; throw us a bone.

Even then, there were ways Nintendo could have made more money. It could have released two collections. Super Mario 64, Super Mario 64 DS, and Super Mario Sunshine in one; Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Super Mario 3D Land in the other. Overall, it just seems really baffling.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 08, 2020, 04:30:12 PM
  • "It's one game per console." I guess though that's arbitrary.

Because the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube had so many Mario platformers to choose from. ;D What numbskull is making this argument?  >:( It's clearly chronological order of 3D releases.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 08, 2020, 04:47:33 PM
Even then, there were ways Nintendo could have made more money. It could have released two collections. Super Mario 64, Super Mario 64 DS, and Super Mario Sunshine in one; Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, and Super Mario 3D Land in the other. Overall, it just seems really baffling.

What makes it even more baffling to me is Galaxy 2 is literally one of the highest rated games of all time.

https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all/filtered

You'd think they'd want both Galaxy games in the same collection just for that fact alone.  Any other company would be publicly declaring that two of the Top 10 highest rated games of all time are in the same collection.  And yet Nintendo didn't even bother to show Galaxy 2 in the Mario montage at the end of the 35th Anniversary Direct.

I mean it's not like it was a bomb that cost Nintendo a lot of money to make them ashamed of it.  The game sold over 7 million copies, and considering it reused a lot of assets from the first game, probably made them a ton of money as well.  It's like, I just don't get how they could get together and decide to release a limited edition collection of the 3D Mario games, use the name All-Stars which is clearly based of the original SNES collection of the 4 NES games, but decide to only release 3 games, even though one of the games has a direct sequel that was just as highly rated and a huge seller as well, which would have made this collection 4 games like the original All-Stars.

The more I try to think about it, the more it feels like they're intentionally trolling us at this point.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Mr. Bungle on September 08, 2020, 04:52:45 PM
However, another thing this thread has shown me is that Galaxy 2 seems to be the big 3D Mario unifier. Everyone seems to love it (or at least like it a lot), everyone wishes it was included and Nintendo seems to have left it out just to make the fanbase turn on itself over the other three games included.
I actually far prefer Super Mario Galaxy to the sequel. The story and hub world really worked for me. Rosalina is also my favorite Mario character now!
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 08, 2020, 05:19:23 PM
However, another thing this thread has shown me is that Galaxy 2 seems to be the big 3D Mario unifier. Everyone seems to love it (or at least like it a lot), everyone wishes it was included and Nintendo seems to have left it out just to make the fanbase turn on itself over the other three games included.
I actually far prefer Super Mario Galaxy to the sequel. The story and hub world really worked for me. Rosalina is also my favorite Mario character now!

You may love Galaxy 1 but are you saying you don't like Galaxy 2 a lot as well? You are indifferent / meh about it?
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 08, 2020, 08:02:14 PM
There is one more piece of this puzzle I thought of.  These games are available only for a limited time.  Nintendo could be throwing a bone to the fans, and getting that big $60.00 purchase for a limited edition game.  Then releasing digital only download versions the individual games for those that did not get the collection.  They could easily, keep that limited edition digital status of the game and then sell each individual game afterwards for $19.99 each.  (That good ole Nintendo Tax is there) But more importantly it makes the original 3 games again $60.00 to help the original buyers not be frustrated.  And to get them to all make one more purchase Super Mario Galaxy 2 for $19.99 would feel like a steal. 

Another thing Nintendo could do for Super Mario Galaxy 2 is give it away free with there new controller they are supposedly making.  This would allow it to be played on the Switch Lite, if motion controls are really that important.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on September 08, 2020, 08:39:37 PM
It's worth noting that there were findings of additional hidden missions on the SMB All Stars Website for April 2021, involving Mario Maker 2 specifically. The current pin promotion is labeled as a "Wave 1 Reward".

I could easily see Nintendo doing a "Wave 2 Promotion" in 2021 with the reward being a code with the elusive Galaxy 2, possibly tied into purchase of the then-upcoming 3D World Switch port as well.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 09, 2020, 11:52:10 AM
Thinking about it more, it would make the most sense for the Galaxy games to be bundled together as 1+2.  If they didn't have an All-Stars style collection that tied into the 35 anniversary would such a release seem strange?

Since Galaxy 2 does re-use assets and doesn't really have a story and is essentially "here's more Super Mario Galaxy levels" is it possible that there are people with clout at Nintendo that don't regard it as a "proper" release?  Could it's exclusion be some workplace politics thing?  Castlevania: Circle of the Moon is a perfectly good game but it has been essentially erased from that series' history because IGA wasn't involved in its development.  I haven't heard of such childish behaviour at Nintendo but you never know exactly what happens at these companies behind closed doors.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 09, 2020, 12:44:39 PM
Could it's exclusion be some workplace politics thing?  Castlevania: Circle of the Moon is a perfectly good game but it has been essentially erased from that series' history because IGA wasn't involved in its development.  I haven't heard of such childish behaviour at Nintendo but you never know exactly what happens at these companies behind closed doors.
That is literally not true at all.
(https://i.imgur.com/gLhAFy6.png)

The internet pretty much memed that "childish behavior" into the prevailing narrative. The man is quoted stating otherwise so believe him or not, I guess. Here's a Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/castlevania/comments/5v30fo/original_series_timeline_official/) that goes into more detail with a couple additional screenshots if you're interested.

Additionally, Koji Igarashi hadn't produced a game that was released by Konami since 2011 then subsequently officially left the company in 2014. It doesn't really matter what he says about the series anymore, right? Konami, as the IP owner, can do whatever it wants to Castlevania including this "EROTIC VIOLENCE" pachinko machine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN0Te7uTi7o) in 2015 and this Canada exclusive mobile game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqzoga3-O4) in 2019 (service discontinued literally today, 09/09/2020). On both counts:
(https://i.imgflip.com/1oquxf.jpg)

At least the Netflix show is flame.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Mr. Bungle on September 09, 2020, 02:56:27 PM
You may love Galaxy 1 but are you saying you don't like Galaxy 2 a lot as well? You are indifferent / meh about it?
Good question. I love all the Mario games I have played including Galaxy 2. I would still give it a 10/10. I just find most people prefer the sequel over the original while I am the other way around.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 09, 2020, 03:39:43 PM
Then my point still stands! Galaxy 2 is a game all Mario fans seem to agree is worth playing and enjoyed playing.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 09, 2020, 04:23:30 PM
I did stumble across this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTZDNsFcqsQ&t=139s) suggesting some development issues that may be why Galaxy 2 was not included in the collection.

From the description of the video:
Quote
Super Mario 3D All-Stars is on its way, with three fantastic Mario games: Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy. But where's Super Mario Galaxy 2?

Now, to be very, very clear: we do not have a definitive answer for why Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not in Super Mario 3D All-Stars. We can't claim any kind of insight into this matter, nor the attitude within Nintendo with regards to this game.

That said, reading old developer interviews from the time of Super Mario Galaxy 2's creation, it's clear that many of the creators who worked on the game...really didn't want to.

At least at first, although, it's hard to say for certain how they felt, as the interview were all intended to promote the game, and "I didn't want to make this" isn't a great point for the marketing campaign.

So, the developers talk about how they initially were really burned out and didn't want to make Mario Galaxy 2, and how Yoshiaki Koizumi and Shigeru Miyamoto wrestled for creative control before spending five hours in heated "discussion" over the past and future of the Mario franchise. Perhaps we'll touch on that more in a future video.

We cut some content out of this one, by the way. We didn't even mention how the developers got incredibly frustrated with feedback from playtesters who complained about how Yoshi controls in the game. One person said, "That's not my Yoshi!" while another argued that Yoshi should not be ridden by Mario! This in particular feels like a frustrating piece of feedback to receive while working on a Mario game!

So if Nintendo seems hesitant to mention Mario Galaxy 2, it might be because many of the developers who worked on the game think of it more as "Mario Galaxy 1.5" than a fully fledged game in its own right. A kind of Mario Galaxy Master Quest, rather than a Majora's Mask.

Or, perhaps we're talking nonsense. If so, thank you in advance for pointing it out politely in the comments.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 09, 2020, 05:22:45 PM
I did stumble across this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTZDNsFcqsQ&t=139s) suggesting some development issues that may be why Galaxy 2 was not included in the collection.

From the description of the video:
Quote
Super Mario 3D All-Stars is on its way, with three fantastic Mario games: Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, and Super Mario Galaxy. But where's Super Mario Galaxy 2?

Now, to be very, very clear: we do not have a definitive answer for why Super Mario Galaxy 2 is not in Super Mario 3D All-Stars. We can't claim any kind of insight into this matter, nor the attitude within Nintendo with regards to this game.

That said, reading old developer interviews from the time of Super Mario Galaxy 2's creation, it's clear that many of the creators who worked on the game...really didn't want to.

At least at first, although, it's hard to say for certain how they felt, as the interview were all intended to promote the game, and "I didn't want to make this" isn't a great point for the marketing campaign.

So, the developers talk about how they initially were really burned out and didn't want to make Mario Galaxy 2, and how Yoshiaki Koizumi and Shigeru Miyamoto wrestled for creative control before spending five hours in heated "discussion" over the past and future of the Mario franchise. Perhaps we'll touch on that more in a future video.

We cut some content out of this one, by the way. We didn't even mention how the developers got incredibly frustrated with feedback from playtesters who complained about how Yoshi controls in the game. One person said, "That's not my Yoshi!" while another argued that Yoshi should not be ridden by Mario! This in particular feels like a frustrating piece of feedback to receive while working on a Mario game!

So if Nintendo seems hesitant to mention Mario Galaxy 2, it might be because many of the developers who worked on the game think of it more as "Mario Galaxy 1.5" than a fully fledged game in its own right. A kind of Mario Galaxy Master Quest, rather than a Majora's Mask.

Or, perhaps we're talking nonsense. If so, thank you in advance for pointing it out politely in the comments.

If this is true, I find it impressive that Nintendo's devs created what is regarded as one of the greatest games ever made when their hearts weren't really into it.  THAT is what they made when going through the motions?!  Wikipedia mentions that the original idea for the game was Super Mario Galaxy 1.5, which is a pretty terrible idea honestly.  It turned into a full-on sequel but maybe the devs still think of it as the original project, rather than the masterpiece they turned it into.

Regardless it is dumb to exclude it.  It was both a commercial and critical smash.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 09, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
Quote
Or, perhaps we're talking nonsense.

Yes.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 10, 2020, 12:24:21 AM
I did stumble across this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTZDNsFcqsQ&t=139s) suggesting some development issues that may be why Galaxy 2 was not included in the collection.

Most of the stuff in this video is things cherry picked from the Iwata Ask interview on this game to make it sound more dramatic then it was.  The Yoshi part in particular makes me roll my eyes when this is how the actual interview went.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/supermariogalaxy2/1/1

Quote
Motokura:  We made a bunch of transformations, and that really brought out everyone's love.

Iwata:  Everyone's love?

Motokura:  Their love for Yoshi. From the development staff, the people in Mario Club and everyone at Nintendo of America. People who really love Yoshi send in all kinds of passionate comments, about the controls too, like "This isn't right!" and "Yoshi doesn't jump like that!"

Hayashida:  One person even said, "That's not my Yoshi!" (laughs)

Iwata:  "My" Yoshi? (laughs) Everyone has their own idea of Yoshi, so I guess it was a fight to get those ideas to match.

Motokura:  Right. And their ideas are all based on different games, like Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Story.

Iwata:  So they all spoke out of their varying loves for what Yoshi should be like. That must have made it hard for you. (laughs)

Hayakawa:  They liked different parts of gameplay, too. Some people liked the way Yoshi struggles to make it higher, while others liked the way you can jump off.

Koizumi:  One person even said Yoshi should not be rode on!

Iwata:  Really?! (laughs)

Koizumi:  He said Yoshi is a main character that you control. I think he was talking about Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island, but if that was true, then what would we do with Mario?! (laughs)

Iwata:  We couldn't just abandon him! (laughs)

Hayakawa:  So we added in everyone's requests and Yoshi became a powerhouse; fast and really hangs tough. (laughs)

Hayashida:  Yoshi will eat anything! (laughs) And you can stop riding, too.

Koizumi:  Miyamoto-san said it wouldn't be any fun if Yoshi were too powerful.

Iwata:  A certain kind of good tension would be missing.

Koizumi:  Right. So we really applied ourselves to coming up with objects and enemies best suited for Yoshi.


They were literally laughing about the different complaints people had about Yoshi.  This is pretty normal for the Iwata Ask interviews when the developers talk about some of the challenges with creating a game.  That's one of the things Iwata always like to talk about, the challenges designers had to deal with and how they solved them. 

Trying to turn that into some big drama that makes Nintendo ashamed of the game is a pretty shitty thing for the creators of this video to do.  The actual Iwata Ask interview shows the development was no where near as bleak as this video makes it out to be and the developers had a lot of fun in the end with all the new idea's they kept coming up with and implementing by the end.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/supermariogalaxy2/1/3

Quote
Iwata:  You made new actions for Mario and came up with all sorts of new ideas. Why do you think you could work them out?

Koizumi:  For generating ideas, we held regular brainstorming sessions for collecting ideas. A tremendous amount of ideas were thrown out, and Hayashida-san went over each one that looked like it might work.

Hayakawa:  The brainstorming sessions were pretty lively. No one was forced to attend the meetings, though.

Koizumi:  Everyone was really into them.

Hayashida:  Sometimes we came up with so many ideas that when time was up we had to force ourselves to quit.

Koizumi:  And it wasn't just the planners participating, but the designers and programmers as well.

Motokura:  When you think of designers, you tend to think of them only drawing pictures, but actually they were itching
to contribute ideas.

Iwata:  They all want to participate in game design as well as drawing.

Motokura:  Yes. So when we talked to them, they had all kinds of neat ideas.

Hayashida:  The good thing about designers is that when they have an idea, they can whip off a sketch and show it to everyone.

Iwata:  I'm really jealous of that skill! (laughs)

Hayakawa:  They can make the same idea look about 50% better. Inside, I'm thinking, "I had the same idea…" (laughs)

Everyone:  (laughs)

Hayakawa:  And this time, we prepared a tool for designers and members of the sound team to create stages themselves. That way, we hardly needed the programmers for prototypes.

Iwata:  So the designers were even making prototypes?

Hayakawa:  Yes. So anyone could make land forms, put in some enemies, put this and that together, and try playing it. A lot of the prototypes were made that way.

Motokura:  For example, there's a stage where columns come barreling down the road toward you. That was made by a designer who joined partway through. A prototype that was made by someone who had only joined the team one week earlier actually made its way into the game.

Hayakawa:  Of course, it went through some changes, though. Toward the end, the planners cleaned it up a bit, but for the most part they left the designer's idea alone. Since anyone on the team could make prototypes, almost every day Hayashida-san would say, "Here, try playing this stage."

Iwata:  Hayashida-san, you must have been quite happy.

Hayashida:  Yeah! (laughs) I was like, "This is fun, but where can we put it?"

Hayakawa:  I think we repeated that process for about two and a half years.

Iwata:  That's why it's so packed with ideas. We talked about that earlier, and now I think I know one reason why that's so.

Koizumi:  We all worked with the concept of "more." We delved into it "more," and made "more"—and the result was a highly concentrated game.

Hayashida:  When we began development, though, we didn't think we had any ideas.

Iwata:  At first, you said you were all dried up! (laughs)

Hayashida:  Yeah! (laughs) All the while we were saying we didn't have any ideas, we were coming up with ideas! After we had hit upon the drill and Cloud Mario, I asked Miyamoto-san if we should keep making new stuff, and he said it was already overflowing with ideas, so that was enough. (laughs)
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 10, 2020, 12:23:45 PM
Wow. Thanks for pointing this all out. I've found several channels across all of my interests that seem to do this. Makes me want to black list those channels from my feeds because it just feels un-constructive to incite such differences.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 15, 2020, 10:55:35 AM
So it looks like the collection has already leaked, and the big news is all 3 games are emulated.  Nintendo's own internal studio, NERD, who created the emulators that the NES and SNES mini used, which are the same the Switch online uses, has created a new N64, Gamecube and Wii emulator.

This is pretty big news since it means Nintendo has a working emulator for all 3 systems on Switch.  So the reason Galaxy 2 isn't in the collection is more then likely a Wii Online is someday getting added to the system, or they're going to start individually selling Wii games again like the old Virtual Console.

So yeah, it was corporate greed the whole time.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 15, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Luigi Dude:  That is actually really good news.  What it means to me is that I don't have to drop $60.00.  It will be for a limited time, and then slowly it will be released onto the Switch Online Service.  Which means, perhaps the end of this year we can be getting a sweet N64 upscaled Virtual Console Nintendo Online App.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 15, 2020, 06:32:50 PM
I watched a video of a Yoshi level from Galaxy 2, where you have to dick around with the pointer while platforming, and I could not come up with a viable handheld-mode solution. I guess you could have a button that auto-tongues to the closest target, but it would be really kludgy and semi-broken. I could honestly see that being enough reason to not include it in the collection. I don't think Nintendo is sweating the additional cash from a separate Wii port when the Switch is exceeding all expectations.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 16, 2020, 01:16:11 AM
That is true, but it could be possible to play with an additional Switch Controller with pointer controls.  Which is why I think it could easily be placed on the Switch Virtual Console.  But honestly, I don't see Wii Virtual Console coming for awhile.  I think it won't hit until Switch 2 happens...and I expect Switch 2 to have new controllers that fix the Switch Controllers problems. 
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 16, 2020, 03:12:41 AM
Even if they're going to continue with the model of adding one system per year, it'll take them a while to get to the Wii.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 16, 2020, 06:28:35 AM
NWR:  Exactly.  And so I think this will be released with the Switch 2.  I think the Switch 2 will be new system not a pro upgrade...but it will play all the old games.  I think Nintendo has learned its lessons and this will be the model they use.  Maybe an upgraded system every 5-4 years at the earliest.  Anyway the Switch was a great System but it could easily be improved upon.  First make the controllers bigger and give them a more comfortable design.  Bigger regular sized buttons and a better Analog Stick.  What I would like to see is a mechanism that could Lock the Analog Stick into a Arcade Stick mode for Virtual console games and such.  But that is just a personal thing.

Then I would like to see both controllers get equal parts inside, Camera, full motion control support on par with Wiimote + if possible.  And if it is possible...a way for these new controllers to be backwards compatible with the Switch.  I understand it won't be perfect, but anything would do. 

Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 17, 2020, 02:38:34 PM
Digital Foundry review of 3D All Stars. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=0q5qOYp9ihY&feature=emb_logo)

Seems Sunshine got the biggest boost. They rated the technical improvements as Sunshine > Galaxy > 64. Biggest weakness was the framerate being capped at 30fps and 64 not getting widescreen support, but does seem to be positive improvements. The UI has also been improved as they have been redrawn in HD. This also makes Sunshine better to play because the UI no longer takes up a ton of the screen.

If I didn't mention it already, I decided to keep my preorder as the appeal of having the games available in HD and portable won out in my head over the shortcomings.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Lemonade on September 18, 2020, 06:27:16 PM
I played Galaxy for a while last night. It looks surprisingly nice. I should compare it to it running on my Wii U just to see exactly what the difference is.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 21, 2020, 09:08:48 PM
I received my copy from Amazon today.

Super Mario 64 didn't age especially well. The camera is atrocious. The controls were passable in 1996, but they're imprecise by today's standards.

Semi-related: To no one's surprise, Nintendo bungled the Super Mario Bros. collectible pin set in that it went up today around 2:30 PM EST and was no longer available about an hour later.
Some thoughts:
I expect there to be other opportunities to get the pin set. While I admittedly want one (would have just purchased it if I could), I personally find the handling of this more amusing than annoying. How is Nintendo so bad at these things? Like all the time?

It is not looking good for the availability of the Game & Watch: Super Mario Bros.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on September 22, 2020, 02:38:59 PM
I'm not even bothering with the Game & Watch. I was a little put out by the pin set fiasco and considered putting a complaint into Nintendo but I'm not feeling it to be worth the effort even if I can finagle something out of it.

And I'll have to eat some words from earlier because the camera is WAY worse than I remember, and the controls are much more finicky as well. I have died so much already because of challenges with the cameras and walking controls. There have been times where the camera has flat out killed me. One early one was a long jump I attempted to do on Whomp's Fortress and the camera would spin all the way around, changing what my input meant and I would go from running forward to pulling back mid-jump.

I'm about half-way through Mario 64 at 55 stars, attempting to get to 100% without looking at any hints or guides, just relying on my memory and playing the game. Won't beat the game until I'm at 100% this time around. Also going to attempt to 100% the other two games, though those will surely be longer affairs.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 22, 2020, 05:18:12 PM
Man, when Nintendo announced that Mario 3D All-Stars was going to be a limited release, I turned to my scalping buddies and said, "That's it. Quarantine is over. Back to work!" Thanks, Nintendo! While I enjoyed the rest you gave us when you launched this pandemic to get everyone playing Animal Crossing for those sweet player engagement metrics, I'm glad you're ready to end this virus with some precious physical edition rarities. And that Mario pin set. chef's kiss

With all the people going stir crazy, you've surely whipped up a spending frenzy the likes of which will be talked about for decades. Best of all, I can then parlay the money gouged from All-Stars into these new consoles from MS and Sony as they piggyback once again on the groundwork you've laid to further fleece these cooped-up kooks desperate for a new thrill to combat their boredom. 2020 may just be the best year ever! Nintendo you are always there for your true fan base, the scalpers. Much love.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Adrock on September 22, 2020, 07:30:26 PM
I hope you don't mind repurposing this thread into the Super Mario 3D All-Stars/Mario 35th Anniversary official thread. I really don't want to split the discussion into a different thread, and I'm too lazy to write a nice opening post.
I'm not even bothering with the Game & Watch. I was a little put out by the pin set fiasco and considered putting a complaint into Nintendo but I'm not feeling it to be worth the effort even if I can finagle something out of it.
I'm going to try. I want it for the novelty. Ever since Uncle Bob mentioned the original Super Mario Bros. Game & Watch, I haven't been able to shake what a missed opportunity that was.
Quote
And I'll have to eat some words from earlier because the camera is WAY worse than I remember, and the controls are much more finicky as well. I have died so much already because of challenges with the cameras and walking controls. There have been times where the camera has flat out killed me. One early one was a long jump I attempted to do on Whomp's Fortress and the camera would spin all the way around, changing what my input meant and I would go from running forward to pulling back mid-jump.
Hot take: Super Mario 64 is not a good game anymore. It isn't bad per se, and I can appreciate it for what it means from a historic context. However, it isn't a game I will likely play again in its original form after this play through. I'm not sure I'm going to finish it this time. That depends on how much patience I have.

The game is just so janky, like Sega levels of jank. In addition to the camera and controls, the level design leaves a lot to be desired. I don't mean the entire courses themselves. Rather things like narrow corridors such as in Peach's castle that make the camera spaz if you try to adjust it and the sheer amount of slopes that Mario will inevitable, unintentionally slide down. Nintendo learned so much between Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Odyssey. The latter is so polished, and rightly doesn't have many of these issues.

I have to take back something I said earlier. A mere graphics update would not have sufficed. Playing through Super Mario 64 again made it abundantly clear how much the game needs a complete remake. Personally, I'd probably keep the graphics closer to the original. It doesn't need Odyssey-level detail, simply better textures and geometry. Peach's castle and the courses themselves are mostly fine. Maybe make certain areas larger so the camera has somewhere to go without clipping into the wall. Some of the platforms are infuriatingly small, but maybe they would be fine with more precise controls. 🤷‍♀️
Quote
I'm about half-way through Mario 64 at 55 stars, attempting to get to 100% without looking at any hints or guides, just relying on my memory and playing the game. Won't beat the game until I'm at 100% this time around. Also going to attempt to 100% the other two games, though those will surely be longer affairs.
You're a little further than me. I have 37 Stars. I don't think I can get any Stars requiring heavy flying. I can't get the hang of the controls (pointers are welcome). I tried getting the Red Coins in the Wing Cap Course like five times before wanting to throw my controller into the sun.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on September 22, 2020, 08:00:30 PM
I hope you don't mind repurposing this thread into the Super Mario 3D All-Stars/Mario 35th Anniversary official thread.

Hello... FBI? I'd like to report a hijacking in progress. I've got a poster here trying to take over a thread and shift the topic to their own agenda. I recommend a forum-wide alert to warn the rest of the posting community and lockdown all other threads in case this monster is working with others. This might just be the first in a coordinated plan to shift the original topic of multiple threads. What do you mean its too late?!?! Posters have been doing this already?!?! FOR YEARS?!? DECADES?!?! But... the rules!!! Do not "derail" threads. Do not intentionally change the subject of a thread or purposefully turn a thread in an unnecessarily negative direction. If it made you think of a good topic you really want to discuss, make a new thread. If this has been going on for years then.... My god....

(https://media0.giphy.com/media/Lcn0yF1RcLANG/giphy.gif?w=144)

...they've never really mattered....  Is being a moderator just an illusion...? Is this whole system just some kind  of virtual reality that has tricked all users into believing some version of a false existence for the benefit of some nefarious force...? Just what exactly is an Insanolord....??!!
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 25, 2020, 05:16:10 AM
So, question for those that have the game.  Are you happy with the experience?  I really want to play Super Mario 64 again...but I also have literally beaten that game over 10 times, and can't justify the price tag.  But Galaxy is great too. 
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 25, 2020, 05:27:53 AM
I haven't started Sunshine yet, but I'm loving 64 and Galaxy. This is probably the best way to play 64, and I'm really liking having the spin mapped to a button in Galaxy.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: pokepal148 on September 28, 2020, 09:37:04 PM
This is easily the best way to play Sunshine and this is the best representation of the n64 version of Mario 64 as well (even if I still prefer the DS version) but what I've played of Galaxy in handheld mode was pretty rough.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 28, 2020, 11:52:08 PM
I haven’t had any real problems with Galaxy in handheld mode. Certain stars can be a little clunky, particularly when they make significant use of the pull stars, but normally it’s just a quick swipe over with my thumb and it works fine. I guess if you’re using the Hori thing it’d be tougher to reach over because of the size of those.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on October 21, 2020, 12:11:48 PM
I 100% ed Mario Sunshine for the 1st time (and last time) ever.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkvI_khUYAYNDPO?format=jpg&name=large)

I've heard Sunshine described as the "hardest 3D Mario game", but I don't think I agree. Once I knew what I needed to do and where I needed to go, I didn't have that much trouble with most of the shines. What i think more aptly describes Sunshine is that it's the most annoying 3D Mario game or the most broken 3D Mario game. I don't think even Wind Waker felt this clearly rushed, and they cut 2 whole dungeons from that game. It's very clear that NOTHING got playtested because this game barely functions. Collision issues are rampant, and so much of the game just feels really poorly considered. The Blue Coins pretty much REQUIRE a guide since they're so cryptically hidden.

That said, I didn't have a terrible time revisiting Sunshine. It's probably aged the best of the 3 games in the collection. It is still, though, probably the worst 3D Mario.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Enner on November 05, 2020, 05:07:09 PM
Getting all the Blue Coins and seeing the one extra thing you get for getting all 120 Shines will forever taint my Super Mario Sunshine memories. The frustration, the disappointment. Things I don't need to revisit.

Wonderful sense of place with Sunshine, though. I'll always appreciate that.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Khushrenada on November 05, 2020, 05:51:03 PM
Hahaha! I played a lot of Mario Odyssey with the Vacation Mario look. It was my way of making Sunshine live on into a new Mario game.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 05, 2020, 10:49:51 PM
Getting all the Blue Coins and seeing the one extra thing you get for getting all 120 Shines will forever taint my Super Mario Sunshine memories. The frustration, the disappointment. Things I don't need to revisit.

Wonderful sense of place with Sunshine, though. I'll always appreciate that.

One 100% a game is never a requirement...although some may say we desire it. 
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 06, 2020, 12:23:40 AM
One 100% a game is never a requirement...although some may say we desire it. 

It's not so much the reward for getting 100%, but the fact getting 100% in Sunshine is such BS that it's not worth even trying it.  I mean all the 3D Mario's have some stars or levels that can be annoying to get, but Sunshine takes the cake with the amount of unfun content players are required to do.  Of course it also doesn't help that some of the worst Shines to get in Sunshine are some of the required ones which already leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths so by the time they beat the game, the desire to even go for 100% is already lost.

That's one of the great things the rest of the 3D Mario games have excelled at.  Just getting to the bare minimum required to beat the game is extremely polished and enjoyable for most people.  This makes people more willing to go for 100% in them because they want to keep experiencing this great content, which they generally keep providing as well.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 06, 2020, 09:25:14 AM
Yeah, personally I have never 100% Super Mario Sunshine.  I got all the normal Stars and that was tedious.  I have 100% Mario 64 many times.  I just have been thinking about my old habit of trying to 100% things and with  Odyssey and Breath of the Wild I released that goal is not necessary to me anymore.  I just don't care.
 
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on November 06, 2020, 07:19:52 PM
Honestly, I've rarely felt the compulsion to 100% a 3D Mario game. I think the only ones I've done it on were Galaxy 2, 3D Land, and most recently Sunshine. I usually need a reason to 100% something, especially these days, like a secret ending. I find the later stars of Mario games to be the least enjoyable ones to do, so most of the time it's just not worth it.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Lemonade on November 08, 2020, 03:18:04 PM
I finished Galaxy for the first time (minimum stars). It is a good platformer and I think it has aged pretty well. I dont really like the weird perspectives and upside down stuff though.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: Stratos on November 09, 2020, 01:11:29 PM
So can Mario not look up in Sunshine? Only way I've figured out how to half look up is by spraying the water while standing still and angling up. The Ptey Pirhana returns level with him flying was so difficult because I couldn't look up to hit him. I actually died because of it as I would get hit constantly by the little goop monsters as I refused to clean up the surrounding goop at first since I was so busy trying to find when Petey was flying.
Title: Re: Super Mario 3D All Stars: Yea or Nay? (And other Nintendo ports)
Post by: broodwars on November 09, 2020, 01:30:16 PM
So can Mario not look up in Sunshine? Only way I've figured out how to half look up is by spraying the water while standing still and angling up. The Ptey Pirhana returns level with him flying was so difficult because I couldn't look up to hit him. I actually died because of it as I would get hit constantly by the little goop monsters as I refused to clean up the surrounding goop at first since I was so busy trying to find when Petey was flying.

Yes, there is a button you press to bring the camera right behind Mario so you can angle up. You actually have to use this ability in order to access one of the levels. Don't remember which button does it, though.