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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Khushrenada on March 08, 2018, 05:39:09 PM

Title: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Khushrenada on March 08, 2018, 05:39:09 PM
I mentioned this on Discord but here it is again since I can't help but quote myself: "Everyone was expecting a port and it's kind of like that but it's the ultimate portiest port it could be by bringing back everything from all the previous Smash games."


Here are the details we've got from the press release:


A NEW SUPER SMASH BROS. GAME
WITH NEW FIGHTERS, STAGES, AND MORE


Legendary game worlds and fighters collide in the ultimate showdown—a new
entry in the Super Smash Bros. series for the Nintendo Switch system! New
fighters, like Inkling from the Splatoon series and Ridley from the Metroid series,
make their Super Smash Bros. series debut alongside every Super Smash Bros.
fighter in the series…EVER! Faster combat, new items, new attacks, new
defensive options, and more will keep the battle raging whether you’re at home
or on the go.


FEATURES:
• A new game in the Super Smash Bros. series releases Dec. 7, 2018
• New fighters, new stages, AND every fighter ever featured in the series…
EVER!
• Inkling from the Splatoon series join the roster
• Ridley from the Metroid series also joins the fight
• Returning fighters include Wolf, Ice Climbers, Pokémon Trainer and more
• Elevate the Super Smash Bros. experience to new heights with faster combat,
new attacks, new items, and new defensive options
• Hold a 4 player free-for-all, or kick it up to 8-player battles*
• All current Super Smash Bros. series amiibo™ figures are supported


*Additional accessories may be required for multiplayer mode. Game, system, amiibo and some accessories sold separately.



E3 Reveal Video



BnM request link version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeEylbl3Oc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCeEylbl3Oc)


(Video is worth it for Sakurai's explanation of what Smash Bros. is.




Fancy Artwork and Screens


(https://www.smashbros.com/data/bs/en_US/en_GB/img/1_US.jpg)




(https://i.imgur.com/iknrkEI.png)




(https://i.imgur.com/vDlndPS.png)




(https://i.imgur.com/fWQddPV.png)




(https://i.imgur.com/AtAdUTU.png)




(https://i.imgur.com/yfKgPrS.png)




(https://i.imgur.com/jZtaWZC.png)




And most important:


(https://i.imgur.com/4TgkZzN.png)


Watch your back, Rosalina!




Official Site




The Smash Bros. Site is up and running with the Smash Blog attached to it. News for Stages and Items still to come on it. Click here to get to the site! (https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/)




Other stuff to be posted in this thread.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Ian Sane on March 08, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
It's hard to tell if it's a port because the prior SSB game didn't really have a proper name.  It was just Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS.  Naturally a Switch version wouldn't use that name.  A remake of Melee and Brawl would be obvious because they would have "Melee" or "Brawl" in the title.  But Super Smash Bros. for Switch could apply to a port or a new game.

Maybe Nintendo will confirm but they might benefit from it being ambiguous so they may not be completely upfront about it.  They could say it's new but when the game is released SSB experts may then notice that it's literally the same game with a few enhancements.  Unless Nintendo says it is an enhanced port I feel almost like we won't know surely until it's released.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2018, 06:08:49 PM
Either way, I want Nintendo to go back to the old naming structure. Clash/Rumble, whatever. Color me excited.

Here’s the Inkling trailer:

And a direct link for BlackNMild: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Gt42kVgCw
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 08, 2018, 06:19:04 PM
Like I've said before, the game will heavily reuse the assets of the Smash Bros Wii U, but for all purposes this will be considered a new Smash Bros by Nintendo and advertised as one.  Even though graphically it'll look the same and reuse a lot of content, it'll have at least a dozen new characters, new stages and some new gameplay modes to be considered an actual sequel.  Just look at that teaser trailer, if this was going to be an enhanced port they would have shown more like every other Wii U port announcement.  The fact they didn't show any gameplay and end it with the giant, flaming logo is meant to have an "Oh ****", something big is coming reaction.  They wouldn't make a teaser this hype for just an enhance port since like I said before, the majority of the Smash Bros audience still played the previous installment last gen on either the Wii U or 3DS.  There's no point in creating this kind of hype for an enhanced port when they can release a real sequel for higher sales.


Plus like I've said before, it's been over 2 years since the last Smash Bros DLC was released.  They made the base game for both the 3DS and Wii U in only 2 years, so I'm not sure why some people still think it's impossible for a new game to be made in the same timespan, especially when reusing the Wii U engine for even faster development and no 3DS version to worry about.  Then there's the fact there were posting back in 2015 that Namco was hiring people to work on a project called Smash Bros 6, which some thought was for the DLC but that never made any sense because these job postings appeared months after the DLC was already in development, which hinted very heavily that Nintendo was probably gearing up for another Smash Bros right away to avoid the long wait like Brawl and For had.

All you people who kept saying we would have heard about it by now if a new game was in development, guess what, we've just heard about it.  With the 2018 release date shown, which means it's probably intended to be their big holiday game, we can have a full reveal at E3 and still have plenty of time for them to have the nightly Dojo hype updates and it would be in a similar timeline like Brawl was intended to back in 2007.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2018, 06:29:22 PM
Peas and rice, man, are you still on this? Does it even matter?

I explained in detail why I think the Super Smash Bros. on Switch is a port, and you ignored every single one of them. That’s fine, but there’s no reason for me to get into a big thing over it. That debate has run it’s course. I don’t even care either way. I’m going to buy it regardless. If you’re going to get all weirdly smug, that’s your prerogative. Have fun, sir. I’m just glad the game, whatever it is, was finally announced.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Mop it up on March 08, 2018, 06:35:41 PM
I figure it's going to be a "director's cut" type of game that will spawn an endless debate over what constitutes a sequel. Either way, it's gonna be heavy on the Smash 4 content in one way or another.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Evan_B on March 08, 2018, 06:40:37 PM
It’s an enhanced port.

Deal with it.

#SpringManforSmash #RexforSmash
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 08, 2018, 06:42:40 PM
Since it's a fighting game and there won't be a big jump graphically it doesn't make as much sense to make a new game from the ground up. I'd be ok with a Smash Season 2 kind of deal.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2018, 06:43:28 PM
I figure it's going to be a "director's cut" type of game that will spawn an endless debate over what constitutes a sequel.
Ugh, count me out, but have fun everyone else.

I’m really looking forward to using the Switch Pro Controller in Super Smash Bros. After a year, I can finally say that I definitively like it more than the Wii U Pro Controller.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 08, 2018, 07:17:01 PM
Did absolutely not expect this to be announced through a Direct!
Splatoon footage caught me off guard too!
Hecka cool reveal!
Hype train officially leaving the station!
CHOO CHOO
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Soren on March 08, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
EXCUSE ME the official title is "Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)". Please fix the thread title.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Adrock on March 08, 2018, 07:28:56 PM
Linkle Link didn’t even include the trailer in the OP, did you really think the title was under consideration, Soren? DID YOU?!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Switch
Post by: Soren on March 08, 2018, 07:46:58 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXzqwayXUAEdimF.jpg)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 08, 2018, 08:58:26 PM
EXCUSE ME the official title is "Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)". Please fix the thread title.

Yeah, when I saw that mentioned in Discord, I thought about changing the title of the thread but it just didn't seem to be worth the effort. But for you, Soren, I'll do it.

Linkle Link didn’t even include the trailer in the OP, did you really think the title was under consideration, Soren? DID YOU?!

Just a lazy person that Linkle is. Fortunately, there's a trailer now that should give you all an idea of what the game will be like.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Soren on March 08, 2018, 09:02:23 PM
Yeah, when I saw that mentioned in Discord, I thought about changing the title of the thread but it just didn't seem to be worth the effort. But for you, Soren, I'll do it.


They need at least 3 months to figure out that the "Nintendo Switch" part needs to go after the "Super Smash Bros." part. Then another 3 months to add the "for" in between.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 08, 2018, 09:25:23 PM
BotW Link in the trailer but didn't look like Cappy on Mario's head...hmmm.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 08, 2018, 09:45:42 PM
Inklings and Breath of the Wild Link are a very strong start in terms of new characters, and whether this is largely based on Super Smash Bros. for Wii U or not, I'm sure we'll end up with a good amount of new characters and content. Ultimately, that's what's most important. I'm super excited about this.

I do hope Ryu and especially Cloud return (one way or another). They were among the most fun characters to play in the Wii U game, and I would probably consider Cloud my main character at this point (along with Sheik).
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 08, 2018, 10:37:00 PM
Okami, Doom Guy, Captain Toad, and Crash Bandicoot as playable characters in Smash for Switch or GTFO.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 08, 2018, 11:27:13 PM
I do hope Ryu and especially Cloud return (one way or another). They were among the most fun characters to play in the Wii U game, and I would probably consider Cloud my main character at this point (along with Sheik).

I'd have to imagine Ryu is pretty safe.  Nintendo and Capcom have a pretty good relationship, and Ultra Street Fighter 2 was successful on the Switch and will receive the upcoming Street Fighter Collection as well.  I don't see Capcom getting difficult when Ryu in Smash is giving their Switch related Street Fighter games good advertisement.


Okami, Doom Guy, Captain Toad, and Crash Bandicoot as playable characters in Smash for Switch or GTFO.

You know I think Captain Toad could have a good chance.  He'd been in 4 out of the last 5 3D Mario games including the latest one and even had his own spinoff, which is now being ported to the Switch as well.  Plus since he's a Toad, it would finally give Sakurai a reason to put the biggest Mario related character that isn't playable yet in the series.  Hell, he could even make Toadette as an alternate custom character like the Koopalings are to Bowser Jr, since you play as her for a good amount of Captain Toad as well and she's appeared in a lot of Mario related games including the most recent one.

So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the little guy makes it in.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 09, 2018, 12:23:10 AM
But Captain Toad doesn't jump. That seems like it could be tricky to make work.

And no to Crash Bandicoot. That loser mascot doesn't deserve a spot in Smash. He couldn't even qualify or make it into Playstation All-Stars where he most belonged but suddenly he gets to join Smash because Vicarious Visions is desperate for more cash so they're releasing his old games on Switch. The N on Neo Cortex's head was meant to be a dig at Nintendo with Crash defeating N. That franchise drew their line in the sand and they can live with the consequences. As the great RABicle pointed out on Pietroits when the N Sane trilogy was first released, Crash Bandicoot was **** 20 years ago and is still **** today (https://pietriots.com/2017/06/30/crash-bandicoot-was-****-20-years-ago-and-is-still-****-today/).

So many, many, many, many characters I would put ahead of Crash. Heck, I'd rather see Spyro the Dragon included. Nintendo's even partnered up with the character in Skylanders with a couple Nintendo exclusive figures. So, that character and franchise has a better working relationship with Nintendo and fans. Imagine joining all the Skylander figures with Amiibo into Smash. UncleBob will look like a visionary genius for collecting them all and being ahead of the game.

The point is: Screw Crash Bandicoot.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 09, 2018, 12:43:56 AM
But Captain Toad doesn't jump. That seems like it could be tricky to make work.

They could pull a Little Mac and make him great on the ground but have the worst jumping in the game, so it'll still be somewhat true to the character.  Or they could do something to let him go into the air which is kind of jumping but he's not physically jumping.  Maybe put a rocket in his backpack so he propels himself in the air like ROB but isn't technically performing a physical jump.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 09, 2018, 01:14:09 AM
I mean they had to use the Duck to get Duck Hunt Dog off the ground so as I said it could be done but  it will take some thinking to incorporate him if they do choose to include the guy. He's just not a guy that screams Smash Fighter when I play him though so I'm not sure where he might be in the Smash Team's internal discussions.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: ThePerm on March 09, 2018, 02:32:06 AM
Is it a port? Are any of the Smash Bros games much more than an enhanced port of Smash Bros Melee?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 09, 2018, 02:37:13 AM
All Smash Bros games (except this one, of course) are built from the ground up.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 09, 2018, 04:07:55 AM
I saw this and thought it was pretty good.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXzQ0jCWsAEtgom.jpg)


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXzQ1BxWkAEYJEj.jpg)




I do hope Chibi-Robo could make it in. I mean, Olimar made it in so no character can be too small. Just too big.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 09, 2018, 04:21:17 AM
Gotta say, Nintendo really does a good job with these Smash trailers. With the Wii U, I loved watching some of those character reveal trailers a few times over. They create such a great fan excitement moment with the characters.

When the Direct mentioned one more announcement, I was kind of hyping on something like Animal Crossing or F-Zero which might make a good surprise now but not be a showstopper one would want to save until E3. When it started and it was Splatoon characters fighting splatting at each other, I was really disappointed because we'd just had like 5 minutes of Spaltoon 2 material and I'm not into that franchise right now. So more Splatoon 2 news just felt like a let down. Then I started wondering why they would make more Splatoon stuff as one last announcement. It was then that I started to feel something was off about the clip since it was just two characters and they didn't seem to be in a stage / arena of any kind so maybe this isn't about Splatoon 2.


As the lighting went dark, I was realizing that this must be about the characters being in another game but what other game? As soon as I asked myself that question, I always immediately came up with the answer of Smash Bros. People had just been talking about how the Smash hype train normally takes a half year journey at least so Nintendo needed to get it going if Smash was happening in 2018 so this must be it. Then the Inkling Girl looked into the flames of Smash and I was pumped again after being so letdown at first. What a great rollercoaster ending to a Direct. You got me Nintendo! That image of Inkling Girl looking into the flames is the latest meme and I love it. Such a great moment encapsulating the awe this franchise still conjures.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2018, 09:13:13 AM
And no to Crash Bandicoot. That loser mascot doesn't deserve a spot in Smash. He couldn't even qualify or make it into Playstation All-Stars where he most belonged...
Activision apparently said no to Crash Bandicoot in Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale (which is weird considering making a quick buck licensing the character and doing none of the work sounds right up the company’s alley), just like Square Enix apparently said no to Cloud who ended up in Super Smash Bros. just a few short years later. This is just conjecture on my part: Sony licensed who it could, but many companies didn’t want to lend out its IP to a new, unproven developer (SuperBot Entertainment) making a brand new fighting game. Alternatively, who says no to Sakurai? He earned every bit of respect he commands in the industry.

As for Crash, I have no nostalgia for the character. However, I can get behind him in Super Smash Bros. just for the disrespekt to Sony. I don’t have anything against Sony, but for all the arrogant bullshit it pulled over the years (notably the old Crash Bandicoot ads in front of Nintendo of America), I’m all for a bit of schadenfreude.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 09, 2018, 09:33:19 AM
There needs to be at least a Snipperclips level.  I could see some possibility for some Ice Climbers kind of chicanery with them as a character though.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 09, 2018, 11:18:52 AM
Gotta say, Nintendo really does a good job with these Smash trailers. With the Wii U, I loved watching some of those character reveal trailers a few times over. They create such a great fan excitement moment with the characters.

When the Direct mentioned one more announcement, I was kind of hyping on something like Animal Crossing or F-Zero which might make a good surprise now but not be a showstopper one would want to save until E3. When it started and it was Splatoon characters fighting splatting at each other, I was really disappointed because we'd just had like 5 minutes of Spaltoon 2 material and I'm not into that franchise right now. So more Splatoon 2 news just felt like a let down. Then I started wondering why they would make more Splatoon stuff as one last announcement. It was then that I started to feel something was off about the clip since it was just two characters and they didn't seem to be in a stage / arena of any kind so maybe this isn't about Splatoon 2.


As the lighting went dark, I was realizing that this must be about the characters being in another game but what other game? As soon as I asked myself that question, I always immediately came up with the answer of Smash Bros. People had just been talking about how the Smash hype train normally takes a half year journey at least so Nintendo needed to get it going if Smash was happening in 2018 so this must be it. Then the Inkling Girl looked into the flames of Smash and I was pumped again after being so letdown at first. What a great rollercoaster ending to a Direct. You got me Nintendo! That image of Inkling Girl looking into the flames is the latest meme and I love it. Such a great moment encapsulating the awe this franchise still conjures.

Once the Splatoon characters started fighting, I knew it had to be Smash.  It was falling right into that vein of "Show what looks like a trailer for one game, but then it's Smash" type of video from the Smash 4 trailers.  Plus, it didn't quite look like all the Splatoon stuff we had just seen.  And there was little else for them to announce for that franchise.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2018, 11:22:47 AM
And there was little else for them to announce for that franchise.
A Splatoon 3DS announcement would have be great if only for the lulz. I would have enjoyed the sheer amount of internet salt. Is that too evil?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 09, 2018, 11:25:19 AM
I got $20 on Crash in Smash Bros. Switch.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on March 09, 2018, 12:30:03 PM
I'll do $20 on Travis Touchdown in Smash Bros. Switch.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 09, 2018, 12:34:21 PM
Not a surprise, but if anyone still had doubts, Sakurai seemingly confirmed that he's involved in the development of this game.

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/971885028245307392 (https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/971885028245307392)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2018, 12:37:25 PM
I hope you’re both wrong because gambling is financially irresponsible. Shame on you.

Meanwhile, Sakurai stated via Twitter he can’t announce the official title and he has been working on the game in silence “day after day.”

I hope he means literal silence because the visual of him pantomiming instructions to the team is hilarious.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 09, 2018, 01:38:44 PM
I will accept Crash in SSB with one condition: his stage should be a digital image of Nintendo of America HQ as off 1996 so that it's like Mario accepted Crash's challenge from the original commercial.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 09, 2018, 02:36:35 PM
I hope he means literal silence because the visual of him pantomiming instructions to the team is hilarious.

(https://www.nintendoprime.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/masahiro_sakurai_45th_birthday.jpg)
Pictured above: Mr. Masahiro Sakurai miming the layout of a new Ice Climbers stage to his perplexed team.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 09, 2018, 02:55:43 PM
And there was little else for them to announce for that franchise.
A Splatoon 3DS announcement would have be great if only for the lulz. I would have enjoyed the sheer amount of internet salt. Is that too evil?

Maybe a little? A 3DS spin-off could've been kinda cool, but not nearly as fun as the "one more thing".
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 09, 2018, 03:27:21 PM
I will accept Crash in SSB with one condition: his stage should be a digital image of Nintendo of America HQ as off 1996 so that it's like Mario accepted Crash's challenge from the original commercial.

Ha ha ha! Yeah and Crash needs to get worse as a fight goes on to really capture the essence of the character. Then I'll accept him in the roster.

I'll do $20 on Travis Touchdown in Smash Bros. Switch.

Now that you bring it up, I think Travis has a better chance of being included than Crash. All three games will have been on a Nintendo console and he's got a weapon and moves that could make for an interesting shift over to the game. And if the go the Smash 4 route of having a lot of 3rd Party DLC characters included that way then I could see him as part of the DLC content.

As far as the base game goes, Sakurai has kept third party inclusion quite limited and rightly so. This title is still about Nintendo's franchises and self-promotion. There are still plenty of Nintendo related characters people want to see which I think should get priority. The idea of allowing more third party characters through DLC is probably the best solution. As far as the main retail base game goes, I fully expect Sonic to stay in as one of the main third party characters. At this point, he's pretty much integrated in with the franchise. I really like the inclusion of Mega Man and is another character that just makes sense to keep including as the franchise goes forward. His titles were a big part of the NES and SNES experience back in the day. I've got nothing against Pac-Man but at the same time, I've got no regret if he gets cut. Move him to the DLC content this time around. If keeping third party characters to a limit of 3 for the main game then I think it is Bomberman's time to be that third member of the third party inclusion. With Bomberman Switch doing quite well, I think his time has finally come and he's always seemed like a good fit for the Smash series. When it comes to third party characters, those should be the top priority and then worry about others later as DLC again.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 09, 2018, 05:24:14 PM
They're in a bit of an odd place with the series. The Smash 4 + DLC roster is already close to the ceiling of credibility for a fighting game, and from what I understand it has significant balance issues that have hobbled it in terms of competitive seriousness. And Nintendo is definitely trying to wedge its way into the esports game. Keeping up the pace of expansion would put them at like a 70+ roster, which is getting into Mugen territory. Also, in the Mario Tennis Aces presentation they were upfront about providing a "clean" game setting for "purists".

Plus, how many more characters/properties really need to be included? Splatoon is in, Arms would be another obvious addition if they plan to continue the property. Then . . . Dillon the Armadillo? Boxboy? Another DK character? Does anyone really want 2-3 more Fire Emblem and Pokemon characters each? Seems unnecessary with Pokemon having its own fighting game and Fire Emblem having its Musou spin-off. Hard to think of any other particularly well-known or relevant retro characters at this point either.

In a blue sky world, I'm thinking it would be better to seriously rejigger how the game plays and pare it down to a 30-character base roster. This would require some tough choices about cuts that would inevitably piss people off. But here's a few easy ones to start: Dark Pit, Lucina, Ike or Roy, Palutena (no one likes her), Pac Man (fine for one game, otherwise a good cut target), Lucas (even though I like him better than Ness, but probably only need one Mother character), Rosalina (Mario needs some cuts), Dr. Mario (same), Lucario or Mewtwo (don't care what anyone says, these characters are quite similar and Pokemon needs cuts), Zero Suit Samus (nest her back into Samus), Mii Fighters (**** em'), Robin or Corrin (pick one recent FE avatar). Also, lose Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta (don't need to be in more than one game, don't really jibe well)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2018, 06:00:51 PM
I wouldn’t want the series to get to a point where the total roster count decreases even if they cut certain characters. The number should keep getting higher even if some characters aren’t brought back. Super Smash Bros. is a celebration of all these series. While esports should be a consideration, the series should never stray from its roots: a fighting game for everyone that’s easy to play but difficult to master. Rolling back the number of characters to 30 is the antithesis of that. Comparisons to other fighting games is unfair since Super Smash Bros. is a massive crossover. People want more representation because everyone has a favorite.

Instead of paring down the roster, work on making more characters viable. MagicScrumpy on the YouTube has a great series where he mods low tier characters Melee characters to give them a fighting chance. He also has a video about how to nerf Fox. Maybe Super Smash Bros. on Switch only gets five additional characters. Reworking some of the older characters so they’re viable adds considerable value and a sense of freshness to the roster.

Lucina is my bread and butter, but I can see how we’ve reached a point where “clone” characters aren’t needed to make the roster larger. The roster is already large. That said, I think Sakurai can either fold/merge the “clones” and original characters together into something inbetween, make the “clones” into costumes, or start differentiating them. Make some of Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS custom moves the regular moves for “clones” by default.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 09, 2018, 06:33:01 PM
If Nintendo focuses too much on the eSports crowd then SSB is going to go from a big franchise to a niche series.  90% of SSB customers don't give two shits about that.  Trimming down the roster would be a turnoff.  The game's appeal is a celebration of Nintendo's franchises in a big crazy free-for-all brawl.  Nintendo just has to make sure that they don't include random elements like tripping that outright destroys the game's ability to be an eSport.

Don't cater specifically to the eSports crowd but don't sabotage the game from being an eSport either.  That's a tough balance but that's what they should aim for.

The irony of all this is that I remember when the first SSB came out on the N64 and it was IMMEDIATELY dismissed by fighting fans as not being a proper fighting game like Tekken or Street Fighter were.  It wasn't until Melee that the series got any fighting game "cred" and I doubt Nintendo was even trying for that.  They were probably just trying to make SSB bigger and better.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 09, 2018, 07:27:39 PM
What balance issues have hurt Smash 4's competitive scene? The first two major tournaments of the year have had a good representation of characters in top eight: there were eight different characters used at Genesis V and ten different characters used at EVO Japan 2018. This type of character diversity has been a consistent theme with competitive Smash 4 for a while now.

Balance is an issue for a competitive fighting game when you see the same handful of characters over and over again and both competitors and spectators get tired of it (or when characters are broken, obviously). That a large portion of the Smash 4 roster isn't competitively viable doesn't mean it's poorly balanced as a competitive fighting game. Put simply, actual number of viable characters is what's important, not the percentage of the roster that falls into that category.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 09, 2018, 07:32:23 PM
This is why I have no problem with Nintendo just reusing the Smash Bros Wii U engine from here on out.  Smash Bros Wii U already looks incredible in motion and it would just be diminished returns trying to build a new engine from the ground up.  This way then can keep all the existing characters since they won't need to graphically rebuild them each game, which will allow a 75+ character roster which this upcoming Smash will probably have.

Seriously, the biggest appeal to each new Smash Bros is how large the rosters keep getting and the kind of characters they keep adding.  Plus because of the large roster, we're able to get more lessor known characters as well.  We got characters like Little Mac and Duck Hunt in the last Smash Bros, because Pit and ROB were already added in Brawl, and they got in because Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch were in Melee.  If you start cutting the roster then it's these kind of characters that we lose out on.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 09, 2018, 07:42:24 PM
This is why I have no problem with Nintendo just reusing the Smash Bros Wii U engine from here on out.
From here on out? Slow your roll, bruh. Eventually, Nintendo will release 4K capable hardware, and the series shouldn’t get left behind. I get what you’re saying about diminishing returns, but working on a 2014 engine until the end of time doesn’t make sense.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 09, 2018, 07:55:48 PM
Seriously, the biggest appeal to each new Smash Bros is how large the rosters keep getting and the kind of characters they keep adding.  Plus because of the large roster, we're able to get more lessor known characters as well.  We got characters like Little Mac and Duck Hunt in the last Smash Bros, because Pit and ROB were already added in Brawl, and they got in because Ice Climbers and Mr. Game and Watch were in Melee.  If you start cutting the roster then it's these kind of characters that we lose out on.

Yup. It's fair to say that they should avoid putting in more "clone" characters (and overhaul the move sets of existing characters that fall into that category) and inflating the roster count that way, but I don't understand what's gained by scaling back the size of the roster by removing unique characters (or limiting how many more unique characters are added). It seems a bit arbitrary.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 09, 2018, 09:08:27 PM
In a blue sky world, I'm thinking it would be better to seriously rejigger how the game plays and pare it down to a 30-character base roster. This would require some tough choices about cuts that would inevitably piss people off. But here's a few easy ones to start: Dark Pit, Lucina, Ike or Roy, Palutena (no one likes her), Pac Man (fine for one game, otherwise a good cut target), Lucas (even though I like him better than Ness, but probably only need one Mother character), Rosalina (Mario needs some cuts), Dr. Mario (same), Lucario or Mewtwo (don't care what anyone says, these characters are quite similar and Pokemon needs cuts), Zero Suit Samus (nest her back into Samus), Mii Fighters (**** em'), Robin or Corrin (pick one recent FE avatar). Also, lose Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta (don't need to be in more than one game, don't really jibe well)
All of this talk sounds like someone who has no concept of the Smash competitive scene. Some highlights:
-Ike and Roy are extremely different characters, as one is all about massive knockback while the other is about optimal close-range damage with a long-range option.
-Rosalina's play style is known within the FGC as a puppet master, and arguably makes her the most unique character in the Mario roster of fighters.
-Mewtwo's appearance in Smash 4 only highlights how different he and Lucario actually are, as they possess vastly different play styles.
-Zero Suit Samus is superior to Samus in every way and the two characters play nothing alike.
-The DLC characters have some of the most unique play styles for a competitive player to utilize, and 2/3rds of those mentioned were fan picks.

Now, as for your personal preferences, such as calling out a certain goddess of light... Well, I like ARMS, so who am I to say you have no taste? But in all honesty, she's one of my favorites, so I don't get the hate.

Smash isn't like any other competitive fighter and there's nothing wrong with that. It defines its genre (platform fighter) by offering an immense amount of variety in play style and function. The argument regarding clones is legitimate, especially since some of the clones in Smash 4 are unlike Falco in the sense that they have relatively few differences from the character they are based upon on a fundamental level. Lucina's reach, run, jump, and float speeds are exactly the same as Marth's, the only difference being that one character can deal tipper knockback and damage while the other can't. Dark Pit is a bit slower and heavier than Pit, but not by much- the main difference comes from their special moves. The same can be found in Doctor Mario's slightly reduced reach. However, the better thing to do with these characters in a future entry is to make them more unique. Say what you will about the fall of Falco since Melee, changing his basic attacks and down-B have only made him more distinguishable from Fox. Roy's updated look and moveset are now much different from Marth's, and that's a good thing.

Smash 4 wasn't perfect, but it possessed enough positive changes from Brawl and a competitive metagame that was different enough from Melee that it stood on its own two feet, even if the DLC characters pushed the meta in a direction that I personally feel did not benefit the scene. I think the thing that mostly everyone can agree on is that Smash 4 introduced a lot of characters that had very unique play styles: Rosalina and Luma, Little Mac, Shulk, Duck Hunt, Pac Man, Bowser Jr., etc. If those characters were to be cut, I would be pretty disappointed, especially since the recognition for those franchises and characters has only grown since their inclusion. Please understand that this is also a party game, at least, in Sakurai's head, so having as many Nintendo franchises represented is important for people who just want to play as their favorite character and throw a Bob-Omb at their friend's head.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 10, 2018, 01:27:01 PM
Sure, I'm just spitballing and admittedly haven't followed the competitive scene very closely. My vague impression was that Smash4 has still yet to displace Melee as the go-to game due to a combination of how it plays and how the characters have shaken out (with an emphasis on DLC fighters throwing things out of whack).

But anyway, the point wasn't arbitrarily cutting characters (and sorry, Mewtwo and Lucario feel very similar, as do Roy and Ike, they all have practically the same moves, that's what people actually look at who aren't into the autistic competitive stuff), it was significantly retooling the game. Smash4 was fine, but it definitely felt like the game is settling down into a staid form. Smash Bros. Again with 15 more characters isn't that interesting a prospect and I think it'd be cool if they went back to the drawing board with a more focused cast they can then build on.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 10, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
Sure, I'm just spitballing and admittedly haven't followed the competitive scene very closely. My vague impression was that Smash4 has still yet to displace Melee as the go-to game due to a combination of how it plays and how the characters have shaken out (with an emphasis on DLC fighters throwing things out of whack).

But anyway, the point wasn't arbitrarily cutting characters (and sorry, Mewtwo and Lucario feel very similar, as do Roy and Ike, they all have practically the same moves, that's what people actually look at who aren't into the autistic competitive stuff), it was significantly retooling the game. Smash4 was fine, but it definitely felt like the game is settling down into a staid form. Smash Bros. Again with 15 more characters isn't that interesting a prospect and I think it'd be cool if they went back to the drawing board with a more focused cast they can then build on.

It has little to do with characters. They're just two very different games. It's understandable to assume that they compete because they're part of the same series and that the success of one game's scenes has a direct impact on the other's, but that really isn't the case. It's more like Street Fighter V vs. Tekken 7 than it is Street Fighter V vs. Street Fighter IV. Melee players will continue to play Melee, while Smash 4 players will continue to play Smash 4 and the Smash sequels that will almost certainly continue to follow Smash 4's foundation closer than Melee's. There's very little overlap in terms of competitive playerbase (especially at the top level), and both communities can co-exist and thrive on their own. All of that is to say, whether or not Smash 4 and subsequent Smash games displace Melee doesn't say much about how their competitive communities are doing.

I'm a bit confused by the second part of your post (even setting aside the part about Ike and Roy having "practically the same moves," which is not true by any measure). On one hand, you want to ignore the competitive angle and just look at characters from the perspective of the larger audience, but then you're advocating that they significantly reduce the size of the roster in order to prioritize overhauling the gameplay and/or mechanics. For most people, the appeal of Smash Bros. is that it's an extremely fun and well made game where they can play as their favourite Nintendo or video game characters. While I'm sure most people who really liked Lucina in Fire Emblem Awakening would have liked for her to have a truly unique moveset, at the end of the day, they're mostly just happy that they can play as Lucina. If you ask most people whether they want more characters with gameplay that's similar to Smash 4 or very different gameplay that comes with far fewer characters, the response would overwhelmingly favour the first option.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Stratos on March 10, 2018, 02:47:15 PM
Every game has at least one "WTF" character like Wii Fit Trainer, Rob, Duck Hunt Dog, Mr Game & Watch. I can see the Snipperclips pair being the "WTF" character for this Smash.


I also fully expect every alumni player possible to return, because that should be a priority. Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers need to be in.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 10, 2018, 03:24:40 PM
Wish list!

Stage Options
1-Hazard Toggle! I know Sakurai is against it but come on man!
2-Scroll Toggle! I love the start of the NSMBU stage!

Character Stocks
1st stock DK, 2nd Dixie, 3rd Ridley. Every time I die my new pick shows up.

Characters:
1-Ridley
2-Dixie
3-Toad
4-Sukapon
5-King K Rool

And i’ll say just once more in case I can convince someone. The Smash Bros logo is new. It has those iconic cross marks going through the SUPER and the A in Smash. The little spikes on the outer S’s are gone from the Wii U and 3DS logos. The TM is placed high near the final S instead of below. There is no outline on the lettering.

Every other port has used the exact same logo with the addition of DELUXE, DX, etc.

And the music! There is a brand new original song being played in the trailer. It gives me an epic Brawl type of vibe. It almost sounds tragic.

While I can’t say for sure, I do know for sure this is a new game.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 10, 2018, 04:13:33 PM
This is why I have no problem with Nintendo just reusing the Smash Bros Wii U engine from here on out.  Smash Bros Wii U already looks incredible in motion and it would just be diminished returns trying to build a new engine from the ground up.  This way then can keep all the existing characters since they won't need to graphically rebuild them each game, which will allow a 75+ character roster which this upcoming Smash will probably have.

This also allows them to build on smash 4's balance and cleanly transition the tournament scene from smash 4 to the new game.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 10, 2018, 05:15:16 PM
If we're doing wishlists, I want to do something different than the usual characters and stages lists except:

Retire regular Link, keep Toon Link. Replace Up+special with the Korok Leaf, map the Spin Attack to holding the Standard Attack (no longer lifts as high upward in the air, maybe moves forward instead). Replace Triforce Slash Final Smash with the Hurricane Slash or something with the King of the Red Lions. The point is to give Toon Link more Wind Waker stuff.

New Challenger: Hylian Champion Link. Base all moves on Breath of the Wild:
-Neutral Special: Remote Bomb, press again to detonate (timer prevents spamming)
-Up+Special: Magnesis, two metal objects appear below Link = Magnesis Flying (not infinite), similar to Sonic's Spring -Jump, but there's some control over it (also, metal objects causes damage when they fall)
-Forward+Special: Stasis, freeze opponent briefly
-Down+Special: Evade, similar to Witch Time then press neutral Special for Arrow or Standard Attack for Flurry Attack
-Final Smash: something with the Champions or Devine Beasts
-Taunt: Cooking because I want the cooking song in the game

My description makes him sound hella-cheap so his attacks have to be on the weaker side for this to be remotely balanced. Just rolling with it.

Anyway, here's a wishlist of not characters and stages:

1. Fix the menus. Make them cleaner and easier to navigate. Training should be on the main screen.
2. Ability to toggle off stage hazards because sometimes it would be nice to play the regular stage setup without the randomized BS that can kill you.
3. Updated Smash Run Online and Local:
   a. At least 8 players.
   b. All players are in the same map and can interact with each other because...
   c. The map/"safe area" gets smaller until everyone is in the same area for the last minute or so then it's a regular match with all the bonuses everyone found. Yeah, it's just a Super Smash Bros. version of Fortnite.
4. Story mode:
   a. The characters are not toys or trophies anymore. They're non-canon versions of their actual selves. That means the writers actually have to care about characterization. Come up with some BS McGuffin for why the characters are brought to the same world. Why they're all together is not the interesting part; what they do once they are is.
   b. Fully voiced cutscenes.
   c. This is not Adventure Mode. As evidenced in Subspace Emissary, the gameplay doesn't lend itself to that. Think along the lines of Mortal Kombat (2011)/Mortal Kombat X. It's regular matches with exposition cutscenes. The story gave players a reason to keep pushing forward while also naturally allowing them to try all the characters except without silly platforming segments that really aren't the point of the game.
5. Tag Team mode. I don't know why this isn't already a thing.
6. Every character gets a taunt that causes minimal damage (like Luigi's bashful kick) for ultimate disrespkt. For example, Palutena's stripper pole taunt should count as a kick if you run into it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 10, 2018, 05:27:16 PM
I definitely agree there should be a BotW-inspired Link, but I don't think they need to retire the original Link to do that. And I really agree on changing the menus, I never liked the way they were set up.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 10, 2018, 05:37:04 PM
I only suggested retiring regular Link because we still have Toon Link who has most of the same moves.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 10, 2018, 05:53:38 PM
Sure, I'm just spitballing and admittedly haven't followed the competitive scene very closely. My vague impression was that Smash4 has still yet to displace Melee as the go-to game due to a combination of how it plays and how the characters have shaken out (with an emphasis on DLC fighters throwing things out of whack).

But anyway, the point wasn't arbitrarily cutting characters (and sorry, Mewtwo and Lucario feel very similar, as do Roy and Ike, they all have practically the same moves, that's what people actually look at who aren't into the autistic competitive stuff), it was significantly retooling the game. Smash4 was fine, but it definitely felt like the game is settling down into a staid form. Smash Bros. Again with 15 more characters isn't that interesting a prospect and I think it'd be cool if they went back to the drawing board with a more focused cast they can then build on.

It has little to do with characters. They're just two very different games. It's understandable to assume that they compete because they're part of the same series and that the success of one game's scenes has a direct impact on the other's, but that really isn't the case. It's more like Street Fighter V vs. Tekken 7 than it is Street Fighter V vs. Street Fighter IV. Melee players will continue to play Melee, while Smash 4 players will continue to play Smash 4 and the Smash sequels that will almost certainly continue to follow Smash 4's foundation closer than Melee's. There's very little overlap in terms of competitive playerbase (especially at the top level), and both communities can co-exist and thrive on their own. All of that is to say, whether or not Smash 4 and subsequent Smash games displace Melee doesn't say much about how their competitive communities are doing.

I'm a bit confused by the second part of your post (even setting aside the part about Ike and Roy having "practically the same moves," which is not true by any measure). On one hand, you want to ignore the competitive angle and just look at characters from the perspective of the larger audience, but then you're advocating that they significantly reduce the size of the roster in order to prioritize overhauling the gameplay and/or mechanics. For most people, the appeal of Smash Bros. is that it's an extremely fun and well made game where they can play as their favourite Nintendo or video game characters. While I'm sure most people who really liked Lucina in Fire Emblem Awakening would have liked for her to have a truly unique moveset, at the end of the day, they're mostly just happy that they can play as Lucina. If you ask most people whether they want more characters with gameplay that's similar to Smash 4 or very different gameplay that comes with far fewer characters, the response would overwhelmingly favour the first option.

I'll try to be clearer since I'm causing confusion. (And Ike and Roy absolutely are based on the same Marth special moveset, which is the "soul" of a character in my book. There's no need for Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lucina to all co-exist. It's different tires on the same bicycle. Like I said, stuff about the damage gradient on the swords or hitboxes or whatever is missing the point. But we're setting that aside!)

-Is it not true that Melee remains significantly more popular than any other version of the game for tournaments? Is the Street Fighter II scene bigger than SF V?

-Regardless of competitive stuff, the base game is stale. Squeezing in an increasingly marginal extra 15 characters into the same Smash4 framework is a diminishing returns proposition. I'd rather they take another crack at reinventing the no-combo-input fighting genre, and/or rebuild a smaller core set of characters from the ground up to make things fresh instead of having 50 characters that are significantly worse than (or redundant with) 25 other characters (and hey, that could even help the competitive stuff too!). I'd personally prefer novel mechanics over maximal fan service. And if what you say is true, this should be fine because the games are all totally separate from and coeval with each other!

-Also, having 75 characters makes it less likely they'll have meaningful single player challenges and such. Smash4 was quite disappointing in this respect already. I want the targets back!

-Some random ideas: Incorporate counters into shielding or dodging or something instead of a bunch of characters having it as a special move. Remix the clones into the custom move system so there are single roster slots that you can change into variants like you do with costumes now.

But again, just spitballing. Hopefully they've got some surprises in store. Even just adding stock online modes for randos and having the option to remove dynamic elements like the yellow Mega Man monster from stages would be an improvement.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 10, 2018, 07:11:35 PM
Either way, I want Nintendo to go back to the old naming structure. Clash/Rumble, whatever. Color me excited.

Here’s the Inkling trailer:

And a direct link for BlackNMild: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Gt42kVgCw
Why thank you. Just now playing catch up, so I appreciate it. LOL
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 10, 2018, 07:53:28 PM
I'll try to be clearer since I'm causing confusion. (And Ike and Roy absolutely are based on the same Marth special moveset, which is the "soul" of a character in my book. There's no need for Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lucina to all co-exist. It's different tires on the same bicycle. Like I said, stuff about the damage gradient on the swords or hitboxes or whatever is missing the point. But we're setting that aside!)

-Is it not true that Melee remains significantly more popular than any other version of the game for tournaments? Is the Street Fighter II scene bigger than SF V?

-Regardless of competitive stuff, the base game is stale. Squeezing in an increasingly marginal extra 15 characters into the same Smash4 framework is a diminishing returns proposition. I'd rather they take another crack at reinventing the no-combo-input fighting genre, and/or rebuild a smaller core set of characters from the ground up to make things fresh instead of having 50 characters that are significantly worse than (or redundant with) 25 other characters (and hey, that could even help the competitive stuff too!). I'd personally prefer novel mechanics over maximal fan service. And if what you say is true, this should be fine because the games are all totally separate from and coeval with each other!

-Also, having 75 characters makes it less likely they'll have meaningful single player challenges and such. Smash4 was quite disappointing in this respect already. I want the targets back!

-Some random ideas: Incorporate counters into shielding or dodging or something instead of a bunch of characters having it as a special move. Remix the clones into the custom move system so there are single roster slots that you can change into variants like you do with costumes now.

But again, just spitballing. Hopefully they've got some surprises in store. Even just adding stock online modes for randos and having the option to remove dynamic elements like the yellow Mega Man monster from stages would be an improvement.

Melee's competitive scene is probably larger, yeah, but I still don't understand the relevance of bringing that up. You could make the next Smash Bros. game better balanced, give it more interesting mechanics, or do just about anything, and most Melee players would just keep playing Melee because that's the only game they want to play (and the scene would most likely remain larger as a result). If you look at Smash 4's competitive scene on its own, it was at EVO Japan 2018, will be at the main EVO tournament for the fourth straight year, and has large tournaments taking place regularly. The fact that Melee's competitive scene is larger just says that it's even more successful and, as I alluded to earlier, Nintendo is not going to convert that fanbase no matter how good or how different the next Smash Bros. game is.

When you start talking about significantly altering the gameplay or rebuilding from the ground up, you might as well make a new series at that point. If you're going to greatly change the mechanics and focus on a smaller set of characters that are largely distinct from their current Smash Bros. iterations, you've basically rebooted the series. Maybe that's what you want and what you're trying to get at, but given that most fans are happy with the core gameplay in its current form (with most complaints being levied at stuff like single-player content or online modes) and the fact that the series continues to enjoy great critical and commercial success, I don't think that's a path Nintendo really needs to follow.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 10, 2018, 08:12:24 PM
Wish list!

Character Stocks
1st stock DK, 2nd Dixie, 3rd Ridley. Every time I die my new pick shows up.

I'm hoping for this as well.  There was that one mode in the Wii U version that sort of let you do this (after you do the whole board game thing), but it really just made me long for a mode where you can pick them freely.  That would make for interesting matches/tournaments.

For characters, I'd like to see Ice Climbers return.  I think Shovel Knight would be a cool character to add, and maybe Captain Video as the wtf character.  I'm also hoping for Funky Kong for the lolz.

Also, do you guys think they'll bring back custom moves?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 10, 2018, 08:34:06 PM
And i’ll say just once more in case I can convince someone. The Smash Bros logo is new. It has those iconic cross marks going through the SUPER and the A in Smash. The little spikes on the outer S’s are gone from the Wii U and 3DS logos. The TM is placed high near the final S instead of below. There is no outline on the lettering.

Every other port has used the exact same logo with the addition of DELUXE, DX, etc.

And the music! There is a brand new original song being played in the trailer. It gives me an epic Brawl type of vibe. It almost sounds tragic.
The song is apparently from Subspace Emissary, actually. Also the lack of "other" developers and Hal's inclusion on the trademark list is similar to Smash 4's original trailer, which only added developers/companies based on their inclusion within the trailer.

Also, you're wrong.

This is why I have no problem with Nintendo just reusing the Smash Bros Wii U engine from here on out.  Smash Bros Wii U already looks incredible in motion and it would just be diminished returns trying to build a new engine from the ground up.  This way then can keep all the existing characters since they won't need to graphically rebuild them each game, which will allow a 75+ character roster which this upcoming Smash will probably have.

This also allows them to build on smash 4's balance and cleanly transition the tournament scene from smash 4 to the new game.
This is the aspect I keep trying to push people to understand. Smash 4's competitive scene is still strong, but ZeRo, its top player, resigned from competitive play because of changes that a... ahem... specific character brought to the metagame, among other reasons (general exhaustion). Smash Switch could carry the momentum of the many Smash 4 players into a new game by retaining a lot of its higher-level techniques, as well as its basic physics, while introducing a smattering of new characters. Considering the current roster size, it seems far more feasible to do this, rather than rebuild the game from the ground up. There were numerous balance checks that took place over the first two years of Smash 4's life, some that were simply sloppy and exploitable. While software updates could certainly happen again, it makes more sense to take what they learned from Smash 4 and transfer it to a new console.

But, I'm not going to harp on this any longer. No matter what the game ends up being, I'll buy it, play it, get invested in the competitive scene. If it is new, I will eat my hat, as mentioned prior. If it were new, it would be surprising and delightful, but right now, it's simply too early to make the call, and the mostly-baseless assumptions aren't going to convince me. To me, the foundation that Smash 4 established was extremely solid and more characters (in addition to character rebalancing) would be healthy for that competitive scene- Brawl's competitive scene is non-existant because it was anti-competition, Smash 4 isn't. While there's potential for Smash 4's competitive legacy to endure like Melee, I highly doubt it would be able to retain Evo spots like that game has.

To the people who think that, in order for this Smash to be new, it needs to cut out previous content, however, I will never agree with this. It's not JUST "autistic" competitive aspects that make me say this, it's because the spirit of Smash, and indeed, the reason people are excited about the arrival of Inklings, is its breadth of inclusion. While the game doesn't have to have as many Fire Emblem characters as it does, I'd never want to take out Robin or Corrin, because they were made with care and have unique elements to their play style, just like Ike and Roy do. Also, calling someone "autistic" for understanding the differences in certain characters is a pretty brutal statement.

As with Adrock's statement, I do have some OPINIONS about characters. There are really only two or three I'd like in the game, anything more would simply be a surprise/delight. In specific, here's what I imagine for some of those fighters.

-Old Light/Twilight Link should remain, retain his moveset.

-Wild Link should have specials centered around BotW/Runes:
Neutral B- Arrows, make this much more mobile. Link can draw while moving, albeit with limited movement speed. Pulling in midair slows ascent, has diagonal downward trajectory (aim-able?)
Side B-  Either Stasis, has limited range and must be aimed, think ranged Witch Time/Disable or Cryonis, creates a pillar that can be used as a shield
Down B- Bomb, drawing on the ground creates box bomb, air creates rolling bomb (or alternate draws)
Up B- Revali's Gale/Glider, decent upward range, player can glide afterwards, has a stamina meter that tells the player how long they can glide, can use Neutral B out of this.

-Inkling's moveset seems pretty obvious, but I'm curious as to how the painting/refill mechanics will work. If a player shoots at the ground, they paint the stage? Can walls be painted? Either way, I'm thinking:
Neutral B- Recharge, player ducks into Ink puddle to refill ink gauge
Side B- Ink Dash, can swim through a puddle at high speed, leap out and attack
Down B- Bomb, can be tossed for slight delay.
Up B- Squid Jump, similar to Dedede's Up B, but hits people on the way up, left vulnerable upon landing, but can do a dodge roll out of landing.

-Spring Man/Ribbon Girl seems like an obvious choice, worst case scenario would be Min Min. If Spring Man is in the game, releasing shield should give him his signature deflect, which should cancel projectiles. If Ribbon Girl is in, she should get four jumps like in game. As in the game, Punches should be very high-commitment, long range but can only throw two at a time. Dodging/Blocking/Landing on the ground should charge ARMS.
 ARMS moveset is limited, but could be cool:
Neutral B- ARM switch. I feel like this is the best way Smash could handle the variety present in ARMS. Players can switch between one of three ARMS, likely Roaster, Boomarang, and Megaton/Revolver. Each ARM has a different trait when charged, EX Roaster fire damage, Boomarang wind damage, Megaton super armor/Revolver electrocutes. ARM changes would cycle through, but you'd only be able to change through one cycle before it moving to the next one, EX:
First Cycle Player Start- Double Roaster
One Input- Roaster/Boomarang
Two Inputs- Roaster/Megaton
Second Cycle (one input after First Cycle Two Input)- Double Boomarang
One Input- Boomarang/Megaton
Two Inputs- Boomarang/Roaster
Third Cycle (one input after Second Cycle Two Input)- Double Megaton
One Input- Megaton/Roaster
Two Inputs- Megaton/Boomarang
Side B- Curve Punch, can be angled up or down. Roaster has slighter curve but faster, Boomarang has huge curve but slower, Megaton is super slow very slight curve.
Down B- Rush, can only be used if Rush Gauge is full. Think Limit/KO Punch.
Up B- Grab, works similarly to a tether grab, can be angles when used on the ground.

-Rex and Pyra could be a cool take on the two-fighter philosophy. I'm thinking:
Neutral B- Double Spinning Edge. Longer range attack, can hit players as it spins. If it connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Side B- Sword Bash. Similar to Back Slash, deals more damage from the rear. Stationary, long forward range. If it connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Up B- Rolling Smash. Circular strike, but propels Rex upwards. Think Aether with less range. If connects, fills Special Gauge. If canceled, fills further.
Down B- Blade Art. Rex throws Blade to Pyra, who is lighter and faster than him, with the exception of specials. Pyra remains in control as Rex's Special Gauge diminishes- the higher the gauge, the longer she is out. Her specials are:
Neutral B- Flame Nova. Larger range circular attack similar to Double Spinning Edge.
Side B- Blazing End. Ranged buzzsaw attack.
Up B- Prominence Revolt. Flames erupt from underneath Pyra and send her skyward. Launch deals damage.
Down B- Mythra Attack. Powerful burst of energy, quick transformation to Mythra.

I can see Travis Touchdown appearing, especially if Nintendo attempts to help push No More Heroes in a way similar to Bayonetta. Otherwise, I honestly don't know who they would add and I don't care. I'm just excited.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 10, 2018, 10:56:43 PM
-Old Light/Twilight Link should remain, retain his moveset.
But, but Toon Link... even with the changes I suggested, he's largely the same. I was trying to avoid a Dragon Ball Z situation where there are a bunch of Gokus. This would be a good way for reducing the number of "clones" even though I suggested cutting the original. Toon Link retains the moveset, and Adult Link can be a costume for Hylian Champion Link.
Quote
-Wild Link should have specials centered around BotW/Runes:
Neutral B- Arrows, make this much more mobile. Link can draw while moving, albeit with limited movement speed. Pulling in midair slows ascent, has diagonal downward trajectory (aim-able?)
Side B-  Either Stasis, has limited range and must be aimed, think ranged Witch Time/Disable or Cryonis, creates a pillar that can be used as a shield
Down B- Bomb, drawing on the ground creates box bomb, air creates rolling bomb (or alternate draws)
Up B- Revali's Gale/Glider, decent upward range, player can glide afterwards, has a stamina meter that tells the player how long they can glide, can use Neutral B out of this.
This is interesting. I considered mapping similar moves. However, I wanted the Special Moves to be mostly Runes rather than mixing in the key items from the Champions especially since those have longer cooldown in the game. I nixed Cryonis because I couldn't figure out a good way to implement it, and I'm justifying my choice because Cryonis requires water even though I cheated to fit Magnesis. A lot of my choices were meant to make Link less spammy with items so Arrows are situational after Evade and Remote Bombs have cooldown. I like the idea that Evade would have a risk reward factor: Arrows are faster but deal less damage while you're defenseless in Flurry Rush, and if you decide to do neither, Link can still use Standard Attacks though it's the slowest option.

Anyway, Travis Touchdown seems to be safe choice as the character has been Nintendo exclusive except for that port of the original Suda51 had nothing to do with. We know what happened the last time one of Sakurai's friends asked to have their character added. That said, I can't see Snake coming back or any Konami character being added (which includes Bomberman) if only out of Sakurai's respect for Hideo Kojima. As much as I'd like to see a Belmont, #fuckKonami.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 11, 2018, 12:49:10 AM
That said, I can't see Snake coming back or any Konami character being added (which includes Bomberman) if only out of Sakurai's respect for Hideo Kojima. As much as I'd like to see a Belmont, #fuckKonami.

Even if Sakurai has strong feelings against Konami because of what they did to Kojima, I could see Bomberman getting in more as a way to honor Hudson.  It was Nintendo that approached Konami to get the most recent Bomberman made and many of Hudsons former employee's work for Nintendo now, so I could see there being a push inside Nintendo for him and Sakurai using it to give tribute to Hudson by filling his stage with cameo's of other Hudson characters and music from several of their series.

Of course I wonder if Kojima himself would be in favor of Snake returning to Smash Bros.  All the drama with Konami was going on during Smash 3DS/Wii U development but that's been a few years now.  I mean Kojima was suppose to be a big fan of Smash Bros, so now that he isn't locked in Konami's dungeon, he might enjoy seeing the character he created in Smash Bros again.  Of course it would be funny if this happens and Sakurai lets Kojima himself design the Metal Gear stage and they bring back the Codec conversations and both men sneak in a few jabs at Konami with some of them.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 11, 2018, 03:47:57 AM
As much as I’d like to have a healthy showing for runes, there are too many that are very situational in execution. I picked the options I found easiest to implement into gameplay- Cryonis and Magnesis just feel like the more awkward fits, and I mean, Revali’s Gale is just begging to be an Up-B. As for the other Champion abilities, the only one I could see working (likely replacing stasis because no one likes Witch Time) would be Daruk’s protection, which could have a reflect property and maybe a three-time usage before breaking.

As for MagicCow’s insistence on gameplay refinements- dude, you are essentially championing the philosophy that buried Marvel vs Capcom Infinite. They took out beloved characters because others could operate in the same “function” and people went nuts because both casual and FGC players want the same thing, which is to play as their favorites. When you talk Nintendo and ESPECIALLY Smash Bros., you’re talking about IP that fans love and Nintendo is actively attempting to promote. It makes no sense for them to toss out characters, nor does it make sense for them to radically revamp the platform fighter mechanics, a sub-genre they themselves championed. You keep saying that we’re missing the point when every point you attempt to make further shows no understanding of the fighting game community or even Smash as a whole. The game gives you options for how you want to specifically want it to work, and you’re saying the base game is stale?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 11, 2018, 04:35:04 AM
I'll try to be clearer since I'm causing confusion. (And Ike and Roy absolutely are based on the same Marth special moveset, which is the "soul" of a character in my book. There's no need for Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lucina to all co-exist. It's different tires on the same bicycle. Like I said, stuff about the damage gradient on the swords or hitboxes or whatever is missing the point. But we're setting that aside!)

-Is it not true that Melee remains significantly more popular than any other version of the game for tournaments? Is the Street Fighter II scene bigger than SF V?

-Regardless of competitive stuff, the base game is stale. Squeezing in an increasingly marginal extra 15 characters into the same Smash4 framework is a diminishing returns proposition. I'd rather they take another crack at reinventing the no-combo-input fighting genre, and/or rebuild a smaller core set of characters from the ground up to make things fresh instead of having 50 characters that are significantly worse than (or redundant with) 25 other characters (and hey, that could even help the competitive stuff too!). I'd personally prefer novel mechanics over maximal fan service. And if what you say is true, this should be fine because the games are all totally separate from and coeval with each other!

-Also, having 75 characters makes it less likely they'll have meaningful single player challenges and such. Smash4 was quite disappointing in this respect already. I want the targets back!

-Some random ideas: Incorporate counters into shielding or dodging or something instead of a bunch of characters having it as a special move. Remix the clones into the custom move system so there are single roster slots that you can change into variants like you do with costumes now.

But again, just spitballing. Hopefully they've got some surprises in store. Even just adding stock online modes for randos and having the option to remove dynamic elements like the yellow Mega Man monster from stages would be an improvement.

Melee's competitive scene is probably larger, yeah, but I still don't understand the relevance of bringing that up. You could make the next Smash Bros. game better balanced, give it more interesting mechanics, or do just about anything, and most Melee players would just keep playing Melee because that's the only game they want to play (and the scene would most likely remain larger as a result). If you look at Smash 4's competitive scene on its own, it was at EVO Japan 2018, will be at the main EVO tournament for the fourth straight year, and has large tournaments taking place regularly. The fact that Melee's competitive scene is larger just says that it's even more successful and, as I alluded to earlier, Nintendo is not going to convert that fanbase no matter how good or how different the next Smash Bros. game is.

When you start talking about significantly altering the gameplay or rebuilding from the ground up, you might as well make a new series at that point. If you're going to greatly change the mechanics and focus on a smaller set of characters that are largely distinct from their current Smash Bros. iterations, you've basically rebooted the series. Maybe that's what you want and what you're trying to get at, but given that most fans are happy with the core gameplay in its current form (with most complaints being levied at stuff like single-player content or online modes) and the fact that the series continues to enjoy great critical and commercial success, I don't think that's a path Nintendo really needs to follow.

I would think it was obvious that the competitive viability discussion is a proxy for mechanical depth/"game feel". I'm no pro player, but I still liked Melee the best, and from what I've read the Melee competitive die-hards have pretty specific and understandable problems with how Brawl and 4 play. I don't think it's crazy to think people would gravitate toward a new game that didn't have compromised physics, 90% unviable characters, or whathaveyou. Another bigger, messier, pretty good party game is not that interesting to me at this point, even if I'm not personally able to reach an upper-tier play level. Obviously Nintendo is not particularly interested in my edge-case predilections, but I think they could and should take some risks with the next game beyond "have the 64DD be a fighter" or "make it slightly less/more slow and floaty". Buuut there's now a rumor that the new game started out as Smash4 deluxe and expanded its spec far enough to be marketed as a sequel, and if that's the case we probably know what to expect outside of some tweaking.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 11, 2018, 08:38:36 AM
I could see there being a push inside Nintendo for him and Sakurai using it to give tribute to Hudson by filling his stage with cameo's of other Hudson characters and music from several of their series.
I mean, that's similar to how we got Pac-Man (though Sakurai originally said no for Brawl) except without the baggage of an anti-developer company like Konami. It certainly helped Pac-Man's case that Namco Bandai developed the Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS.

I'd liken this situation to whether you should date your best friend's ex. You probably shouldn't period as a basic courtesy (i.e. date literally anybody else), but if you did, your friend may give their blessing then realize how shitty it feels when you and their ex get together. I liked Snake in Brawl, but he wasn't so important to the series that it's worth crossing any lines. Nintendo, as a corporation, can make deals with Konami because that's business. Sakurai, as an individual who values his independence, would be enabling Konami's terrible practices by including even a Hudson character. There are quite a few Konami IPs I'd love to see in Super Smash Bros. However, I'd personally like to see the show of solidarity even more (again, #fuckKonami). Maybe Nintendo suggests a Konami character, but I wouldn't put much weight behind that unless Konami is developing the game. After Melee, Sakurai has been getting his way more often than not.
As much as I’d like to have a healthy showing for runes, there are too many that are very situational in execution. I picked the options I found easiest to implement into gameplay- Cryonis and Magnesis just feel like the more awkward fits, and I mean, Revali’s Gale is just begging to be an Up-B.
That's fair though there's a lot of cheating in the series to get certain moves to work. I gave Toon Link a Korok Leaf that would have an updraft coming from nowhere. I wanted Hylian Champion Link to have something different. Magnesis Flying is one of the coolest things you can do in the game. The metal crates could have certain properties. They could cause damage with no flinch while in Magnesis, do more damage when falling from a greater height, and break when hitting the ground from a greater height while remaining intact from lesser height (then be carried/thrown like Wario's bike). Just so the stage isn't full of metal crates, Link can only use Magnesis Flying when no other crates are on the field, creating another risk/reward scenario.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 11, 2018, 10:39:58 AM
Melee had 90% unviable characters for 10 years before people started utilizing different strategies.

Smash 4 is a fine game, it’s not as technical as Melee but it doesn’t have to be.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: broodwars on March 12, 2018, 11:46:53 AM
I really hope this Smash has stages with actual effort put into them, not just the usual "2-3 floating platforms in front of a non-interactive moving background" nonsense. That really started getting out of hand in Brawl & got really annoying in Smash Wii U.

Let's see more stages with interactive elements that change over time.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 12, 2018, 01:44:18 PM
That's funny you mention that because a couple of people want to be able to toggle the stage hazards on and off, which would make me think there was enough variety there.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 12, 2018, 02:39:15 PM
I would think it was obvious that the competitive viability discussion is a proxy for mechanical depth/"game feel". I'm no pro player, but I still liked Melee the best, and from what I've read the Melee competitive die-hards have pretty specific and understandable problems with how Brawl and 4 play. I don't think it's crazy to think people would gravitate toward a new game that didn't have compromised physics, 90% unviable characters, or whathaveyou. Another bigger, messier, pretty good party game is not that interesting to me at this point, even if I'm not personally able to reach an upper-tier play level. Obviously Nintendo is not particularly interested in my edge-case predilections, but I think they could and should take some risks with the next game beyond "have the 64DD be a fighter" or "make it slightly less/more slow and floaty". Buuut there's now a rumor that the new game started out as Smash4 deluxe and expanded its spec far enough to be marketed as a sequel, and if that's the case we probably know what to expect outside of some tweaking.

As I've said before, there's no reason to believe that most Melee players will abandon the game for any other Smash Bros. game at this point. They've invested years and years into Melee (over a decade for some pro players), most of them still greatly enjoy playing it, and the competitive scene continues to be very active. There is seemingly no incentive for most of them to jump to a new Smash Bros. game (no matter how good or how different it is), and there's seemingly no incentive for Nintendo to make any significant decisions about the new Smash Bros. game based on that community.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 12, 2018, 02:42:30 PM
Solid empirical information, I cede the argument to you. And you know, couldn't be affected by CRTs dying every day and modern televisions having unavoidable lag that makes high-reflex older games unviable (and hell, probably new ones too to an extent). Also definitely couldn't be a symptom of any issues. Or interact at all with the fact that there's a potential audience aging into the zone of interest every day that has no built-in attachment to a Gamecube game.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 12, 2018, 02:53:21 PM
I really hope this Smash has stages with actual effort put into them, not just the usual "2-3 floating platforms in front of a non-interactive moving background" nonsense. That really started getting out of hand in Brawl & got really annoying in Smash Wii U.

Let's see more stages with interactive elements that change over time.


The majority of the new stages in Smash Bros Wii U were exactly like this.  Even the ones that fit the description of 2-3 platforms in front of a background, have some kind of major interaction in them, which many would even say hurts them like Wily's Castle where the Yellow Devil can be a real pain in the ass.  Some of them might have 3 platforms during transitions like Skyloft and Wuhu Island, but they're always taking players to different locations based on said game that vastly change the layout of the stage several times each match.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 12, 2018, 03:31:31 PM
That's funny you mention that because a couple of people want to be able to toggle the stage hazards on and off, which would make me think there was enough variety there.
Guilty as charged.

The static two or three platforms can get kind of bland. Maybe have the platforms move? Or in addition to every stage having a Final Destination version, it could have a Battlefield version as well. That way, the developers can really have fun with the level designs AND still have the basics that people like. That would add tons of variety. With a stage hazard toggle, a lot of stage could have four versions.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Oedo on March 12, 2018, 03:54:33 PM
That's funny you mention that because a couple of people want to be able to toggle the stage hazards on and off, which would make me think there was enough variety there.
Guilty as charged.

The static two or three platforms can get kind of bland. Maybe have the platforms move? Or in addition to every stage having a Final Destination version, it could have a Battlefield version as well. That way, the developers can really have fun with the level designs AND still have the basics that people like. That would add tons of variety. With a stage hazard toggle, a lot of stage could have four versions.

That's a good idea. I don't like playing stages with stage hazards most of the time, but I also don't like playing the FD version of stages a lot of the time either, so I end up defaulting to Battlefield or Town and City a lot. Having a Battlefield version of every stage would be a nice way to change things up (even if it all that significant a change).
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 12, 2018, 04:58:59 PM
I like the idea of every stage also having a Battlefield mode.  That would let you enjoy the different music and backgrounds from each level without having to play on Final Destination.

Edit: but I wonder if that's too much to add with a hazard toggle.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 12, 2018, 06:11:31 PM
I really like the stage hazards.  It's kind of like a different game where it's a contest to avoid getting killed by the stage.  For me SSB is a very reactive game.  The fun is in how well I can adapt to the chaos of stage hazards and items coming into play.  I'm pretty far from a tournament style gamer.  eSports is like swimming laps at the pool.  For me SSB is when the waves get activated and I'm 12 years old again and my friends and I are trying to knock each other off of the foam floaters amidst the chaos.

I have the most fondness for Melee but my reasons for it are mostly nostalgic.  Melee came out when I still lived at home and my youngest brother and I played the hell out of it to unlock the sound test.  He would come home from high school and play until I got home from work and then we'd trade off on the single player challenges.  The only other SSB game I have is Brawl and when that came out I now lived in my own place, and while I had him over a few times to play it, it was never the same.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 13, 2018, 10:32:56 AM
I have a fondness for Melee based mostly on nostalgia, too.  But I DO miss how frantic and fast the game felt. 
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 14, 2018, 02:52:08 AM
I really like the stage hazards.  It's kind of like a different game where it's a contest to avoid getting killed by the stage.

I am very much a tournament style player and love 1vs1's on fairly neutral stages but yes this right here! My little brother and I are(or were) very close in huge part because of Smash Bros but gosh darn it, it was Smash Wii U/3DS that tore us apart. I just won't play the game with him. We would actually get in heated arguments over the game in large part due to what Ian said above.

As I said I love tournament style play but I also love things like Poke Floats, Orbital Assault, Saffron City, and Mario Bros. Some of these its just the terrain never being consistent and for others things are trying to hurt you at every turn! I love trying to fight and survive the environment at the same time! Now I don't like it all the time but alternating from the usual ultra safe tournament play to balls to the wall nuts play is great for me.

My bro insists stages like Orbital Assault and Mario Bros Arcade(brawl) are inherently not fun. Like its a scientific impossibility for those stages to be fun because there is so much trying to kill you that you are fighting against the stage and its no fun for people to die like that. His reasoning is no one likes to lose. He can't even fathom why I would enjoy stages like those.

He even views walk off stages as inferior and unfun because it doesn't make the game fair and goes against what Smash is all about. I'm like what the heck is Smash all about?! I mean walks offs usually account for such a small fraction of the over all stages why not have a few for the cool novelty and alternate way to play? Man I love the Wii Fit Studio and Mario Maker.

I'm even embarrassed to say that our conversations concerning these two stage topics and Dixie Kong actually had me raising me voice ready to knock his teeth out. When I read topics and Smash fans are going at it in really heated discussions I see an ugly side of my personality I didn't even know I had in all of them. Only when I argue about the inclusion of randomness, walk offs and stage hazards I make it very clear I don't want every stage like that. Just some. Some stages should be really neutral, some should be nuts, and then others in between the extreme ends. My bro is like "Dixie is no body who brings nothing to the table, walk offs go against Smash's style of play, stage hazards ruin the game for reasons."


And I think to myself, as a kid and teenager he used to love all that crazy stuff. We would laugh and have such a good time and now its as if those things only had merit when he was young and stupid enough to believe they were fun.

I don't particularly like 3rd party characters in Smash. I've warmed up to them but personally wouldn't mind them gone. At the same time I know a jillion people love them and I am happy they got the ones they love and hope they get to keep them for their sakes. I don't go around telling people what they should and should not like in the game the way my brother does.


Huh... Now that I think about it, I don't play anything with him any more. His smug and condescending attitude in regards to what I like in Smash has completely ruined our relationship which was built on gaming together.


*sigh* I need therapy.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 14, 2018, 09:01:54 AM
I like the variety of stages with hazards, and I’ll select them occasionally to break things up. Some hazards, however, are perhaps too intrusive. For example, I like Wiley Castle with the moving platforms, but I don’t always feel like dealing with the Yellow Devil. I’m not saying I don’t want them in the game. That would be silly as random elements are major hallmarks of the series. Rather, I just want the option to play on a stage without the boss/hazard that isn’t just Final Destination. That’s an important distinction.

As for third party characters, I like them particularly if they bring something new to the table that wouldn’t make sense with a Nintendo character (e.g. Ryu’s controls, Bayonetta’s combos, Cloud’s Limit Break). I definitely want Sakurai to keep building on that.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 14, 2018, 11:08:10 AM
I should have clarified myself. I do like hazards but there are some that go too far even for me. Yellow Devil and Ridley being two of the biggest offenders. I think for me it's because they appear on a stage that would otherwise be perfect in a competitive setting. If they appeared on a more wacky or bigger stage like Metal Face I probably wouldn't be so against them.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 15, 2018, 07:54:34 PM
Metal Face is a really good stage hazard. He's disruptive but at the same time he has established rules and such that make him seem more tame than something like Ridley.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 15, 2018, 08:03:24 PM
Caterkiller's brother reminds me of my other brother, the one I didn't play Melee with, who is very stuck in his ways and never liked videogames switching to 3D.  Like he talks about polygons like they're some fad.  I think you can count the amount of videogames he's played that were released after 1996 on one hand.  On one hand if someone wants to deprive themselves of something fun by being irrationally stubborn that's their loss.  But I also lose something in that when we were kids I enjoyed playing games with him and that's not really a thing now.  If I ask him to play Super Mario Kart he's game, but no Mario Kart 8.  Like what's the real difference there?  Super Mario Kart is a 3D game, it just uses sprites instead of Polygons.

In regards to SSB in a tournament/eSports approach, my feeling is that if I want that I have games like Street Fighter right there.  SSB with it's one button special moves seems like an overly simple fighting game engine for "serious" play when there are games with complex button inputs and combos available.  If you want a serious fighter why aren't you playing Virtua Fighter or the Last Blade or something that is specifically designed as such.  To me it's like your ideal game would be Gran Turismo but you're sticking with Mario Kart for some reason.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 15, 2018, 08:11:40 PM
I think Yellow Devil is kind of annoying.  He "shrinks" the stage dramatically.  He, and other boss hazards, are cool because they really change how you play since now there's a mutual enemy for everyone involved.  However, that's more fun to me on paper (read:typing it out on a Nintendo forum) than in actual practice for some reason.  Those are the kind of stage hazards I'd want a toggle for.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 15, 2018, 09:27:24 PM
In regards to SSB in a tournament/eSports approach, my feeling is that if I want that I have games like Street Fighter right there.  SSB with it's one button special moves seems like an overly simple fighting game engine for "serious" play when there are games with complex button inputs and combos available.  If you want a serious fighter why aren't you playing Virtua Fighter or the Last Blade or something that is specifically designed as such.  To me it's like your ideal game would be Gran Turismo but you're sticking with Mario Kart for some reason.
Because fighting games come in all shapes and sizes, and Nintendo essentially created a subgenre thanks to Smash Bros. design. There's no reason people can't enjoy and invest time into a platform fighter if combination-input fighters don't appeal to them.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 16, 2018, 12:59:15 AM
Yeah, I am not a fan of combo-input fighters. I can have some fun dicking around with other people who don't know what they're doing, but I have zero interest in actually "learning" how to play them. Smash Bros. is much more intuitive and dynamic.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 18, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
So, how much do you guys want to bet we’re getting another tease of this game in the next Direct? I assume they’ll want to build up all the hype they can before blowing their load at E3.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 18, 2018, 08:41:27 PM

So, how much do you guys want to bet we’re getting another tease of this game in the next Direct? I assume they’ll want to build up all the hype they can before blowing their load at E3.


Well OBVIOUSLY Super Smash Bros for New Nintendo 2DS XL 2 (working title) will include indie gaming characters too right? So it's only natural for them to do a Nindies Direct... and then end it with a whole bunch of character reveals!!!

LEAKED RUMOURS FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE
Shovel Knight is in, can you dig it?!
And along with him, the King of Cards plays his ace!
Owlboy & Sakurai are in ca-hoots!
Hollow Knight joins the fray!
Shantae lifts the pirate's curse!
Miriam from Bloodstained arrives, before Bloodstained itself does!
Fé's creature sings a song of victory!
Moonlighter moonlights as a Smash champion!
A car from FAST RMX? GOOOOO
Anyone from Runbow dashes for the finish!
Sasha from Severed cuts her way through the competition!
A cow from Stardew Valley? Immediate S-Rank on the tier list.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 19, 2018, 08:56:59 AM
I don’t consider the nindie showcase to be a Direct, but okay.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 19, 2018, 07:30:10 PM
I don’t consider the nindie showcase to be a Direct, but okay.

I thought that's what you were referring to and my response would've been "only if Shovel Knight is in".

Been playing Star Allies and I don't know why, but this game is making think Bandanna Waddle Dee might be in.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 19, 2018, 07:42:06 PM
I would like to see some Kirby representation but its kind of hard since they haven't really fleshed out the side characters much and you almost have to go with bosses to get characters with a bigger move set. That said, I think Marx could be made to work and I still pine for Gooey representation. But if Bandana Waddle Dee does get included then one of the alternate costumes better be Banana Waddle Dee with a banana on his head in place of the bandana. Then I will consider making him one of my top choices as a fighter.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 19, 2018, 09:26:51 PM
This could just have just as easily been a Smash trailer for Chef Kawasaki:
https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/975846880675418112 (https://twitter.com/NintendoAmerica/status/975846880675418112)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 19, 2018, 09:31:27 PM
Shovel Knight should never ever ever be in Smash Bros. But I have no love for that game so disregard me.

I don’t really feel that you need any more representation of the Kirby series than there already is, but if any characterwere to make it, it would likely be Bandana Dee.

I think that a more relevant topic when discussing potential roster picks is what games/series don’t need more representation in Smash, or have no more roster potential. Like, the only two characters I can see from Mario are Captain Toad and Waluigi, but that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel. As much of a Metroid fan as I am, Ridley doesn’t work and there haven’t been any landmark, iconic characters out of that series other than he and Samus. Zelda is mega popular right now but any other additions aside from Tingle would be single entry characters. They could capitalize on Hyrule Warriors giving some more representation and moveset potential (Midna, Ganondorf, [and Ghirahim pleeeease!]), which I think would be a bold move. The boldest of all would be adding that game’s titular character, Lana.

Donkey Kong needs another playable character, whether it’s Dixie or Cranky. These are characters I feel deserve a spot, unlike King K. Rool who doesn’t have one distinct personality. Personal opinion. The return of Wolf would be the only entry Fromm Star Fox I could imagine, unless you’d let me to do something with Slippy and his Star Fox Guard appearance. Kid Icarus certainly doesn’t need any new characters, but since it’s Sakurai’s baby I could see another one. I’d want something more unique fromit, like Hades or Medusa, as Smash lacks villains (and yet, I don’t want King K. Rool...). Kirby is fine. Earthbound could use more variety but it’s still too niche to get anything more than what it has.

Then, there’s the two elephants in the room. Pokemon won’t lose its potential additions until a Smash game with ONLY Pokemon exists, but I really feel they should try to be conservative with this series and reserve spots for truly iconic and popular Pokemon. Everyone who is wrong and stupid seems to want Decidueye but I would prefer other grass-types. And then there’s Fire Emblem, which is such a frustrating series in general. With games that feature such a wide variety of weapon types and fighting styles, it baffles me as to why every Fire Emblem character wields a sword. If they were to add another character, I’d pray for an axe/lance user, although to me, I feel you could give a nod to ATLUS and cover your bases with one of the characters from the criminally underrated and under-exposed Tokyo Mirage Sessions. I mentioned this on Twitter.

Outside of that, there’s lots of one-off characters from Nintendo games that don’t need any more entries. The potential of new series being included is much more appealing to me than anything, but I understand that, at its current size, representing Nintendo series is going to be slim pickings. There are certain games that would work better as stages than fighting characters, like Pushmo and Captain Toad, and new series- with the exception of Splatoon- are extremely niche, like Dillon’s Rolling, ARMS, and Code Name STEAM. I don’t think a universe exists where this next Smash will have more third-party additions than first-party entries, but I do wonder if Nintendo will extend a hand to smaller indie developers who have really made an impact on their consoles. There are some universally popular indie titles like Cave Story, SteamWorld, Shantae, and as much as I hate to admit it, Shovel Knight who have honored some traditions that Nintendo has established, and perhaps deserve a spot among the heavy hitters. I don’t see this happening, but hey, no one believed Cloud would ever be in Smash, either.

Also, please leave Kingdom Hearts out of Smash Bros..
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 19, 2018, 11:28:14 PM
Zelda is mega popular right now but any other additions aside from Tingle would be single entry characters. They could capitalize on Hyrule Warriors giving some more representation and moveset potential (Midna, Ganondorf, [and Ghirahim pleeeease!]), which I think would be a bold move. The boldest of all would be adding that game’s titular character, Lana.

If we get a new Zelda character I'd put all my money on Impa.  She's been in the majority of Zelda games, and is the most iconic character behind Link, Zelda and Ganon as this point.  Yeah she's usually an old women but has been younger in Ocarina of Time and Skyward Sword, with her Hyrule Warrior design being a modified version of the Skyward Sword one and would be perfect for Smash.  Hyrule Warriors also gives her a ton of moveset potential with the different weapons she uses in that game.  Plus with all the Sheikah technology in Breath of the Wild, Sakurai could easily borrow some things from that game to give to Impa to use since she is the head of the Sheikah so it would make sense.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 20, 2018, 04:04:35 PM
the only two characters I can see from Mario are Captain Toad and Waluigi, but that’s scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Waaahhh! You lousy! Waluigi number one!


(For BnM if he wants to be included: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SU0wxB1ASc)


Everybody knows that Waluigi is Charles Martinet's best voice work.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 21, 2018, 10:29:18 AM

I think that a more relevant topic when discussing potential roster picks is what games/series don’t need more representation in Smash, or have no more roster potential.

This is an interesting approach to the "who should be in" question.  Not one I would've thought of.

But while the Mushroom Kingdom is thoroughly represented, I think Waluigi should be in as a fan favorite "fun" character.

Also, of the other franchises that seem fully represented, I can't think of one that couldn't add or change up the representation in an interesting way.  For Zelda, Wolf Link and Midna could be a really interesting addition.  Despite being niche, Poo or Flint from Earthbound could be fun additions.  And despite having a lot of representation, Fire Emblem needs some axe and lance users, but I'm not sure who you cut other than Lucina.

Actually, I think Pikmin having more of the other Captains as alts for Olimar would be the only extra representation that franchise needs.

But what about F-Zero?  I think it's time for a new game Samurai Goroh (or someone else) got in.

Also there's this:
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/353/067/bbc.gif)
source (https://twitter.com/JavedLSterritt/status/975666584055197696)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 21, 2018, 11:52:58 AM
I just can’t get behind adding Waluigi. I feel like he should be playable in at least one non-sports Mario spinoff. I’ve been waiting for Super Wario Bros. for nearly two decades now.

When Brawl was announced, I was all for Midna and Wolf Link. However, I’d prefer Imp Midna independent of Wolf Link. I think there’s potential basing most of her moves on the Fused Shadow (only using Wolf Link for a special move if at all) and/or transforming into her true form.

If adding a ton of characters is too much work, I could get behind updating the older ones. No need to replace entire movesets (except Ganondorf). Use moves inspired by more recent games such as Mario getting Cappie and being able to dive onto him like in Super Mario Odyssey.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 21, 2018, 02:56:41 PM
I could see Paper Mario finally getting in.  He's had 5 games, with a wide variety of things to choose from for potential movesets.  You have all the paper transformations, stickers, partners and items that could be thrown in to make a very creative character.

When compared to other Mario related characters, Paper Mario has the most going for him.  He's had his own series that has gotten a new game for the last 4 generations now, with the last gen having 2 main games and a crossover game with Mario & Luigi.  There's also the creativity factor which I mentioned above which certainly gives him a lot more potential for a unique moveset then Captain Toad or Waluigi.  If Sakurai is looking for popular Nintendo characters who could still bring something new to the table, I'd imagine Paper Mario would be near the top of that list.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 21, 2018, 08:04:12 PM
Wow! I never thought about a Paper Mario version. (Probably because having Dr. Mario never made me think of another Mario "clone"). There are two big moves of Paper Mario. The Jump attack which I don't really see translating unless done as a Final Smash perhaps but there are greater attacks which could be used for that. The Hammer could very well be like King Dedede and his side smash hammer attack. That said, there are other moves and attacks. He could even have helper friend attacks included as well. There is a rich vein of potential here. I would honestly knock out Dr. Mario then in place of Paper Mario even with the Doctor's inclusion in a couple games already at this point.

As much as I do like Waluigi, I can't argue against a Paper Mario being included in first if there is an expansion in the Mushroom Kingdom lineup.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 21, 2018, 10:17:51 PM
Please don’t soil Paper Mario any more.

If he were in, I would main him. If he sucked, it would perfectly encapsulate my feelings on the series and crush me.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 21, 2018, 11:14:33 PM
Hey, I still main Kirby in Melee even though his slower speed keeps me from doing as well as people playing other characters like Marth and Roy. Don't care. He's Kirby and he'll always be my main. Heck, even in Brawl and Wii U, he's not a top tier guy but I plug away and still see some success because I know his moves set so well.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 21, 2018, 11:27:44 PM
I would drop all complaints about the development of the series if they made Jigglypuff good again. I still main it, but it ain't the same.

Waluigi should get in as an obnoxious Mario sports character with a grunge-preppy tennis-shorts style, smashes with different rackets or clubs, etc. He can even be a Wario clone, with a Tour de France bike instead of a motorcycle.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 21, 2018, 11:41:23 PM
Wow! I never thought about a Paper Mario version.
There was some discussion of Paper Mario in this Talkback thread nearly five years ago (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=41044.0). I thought I brought up Paper Mario earlier, but that must have been on nChamber. Paper Mario would be awesome as long as Sakurai ignores Sticker Star.

Anyway, I don't think I've ever stuck with a single character as my go-to (really trying not to use "main" as a noun here).

OG: Samus
Melee: Sheik
Brawl: I don't even remember
Wii U/3DS: Lucina
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 21, 2018, 11:57:12 PM
MAIN TIME
Smash Bros: Kirby/Samus
Melee: Mario/Young Link
Brawl: Zero Suit Samus/Lucario
Project M: Charizard/R.O.B.
Smash 4: R.O.B./Greninja

There’s lots of characters I’ve wanted to be good with but never invested enough time into. The worst offenders are Shulk and Bowser Jr. from Smash 4. Two of my absolute favorite characters, fallen by the wayside.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on March 22, 2018, 06:52:50 PM
My main:
Random
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 22, 2018, 07:13:02 PM
My Main: Charizard, AKA the character who has been secretly in Smash Bros. since day 1.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 22, 2018, 07:34:54 PM
My main:
Random

Same here.  That's how my brothers and I play every fighting game, to keep it from being two idiots using the same characters and spamming the same moves the whole time. :)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 22, 2018, 07:51:18 PM
My main is Jigglypuff, I just love the floatyness and that you can chase your opponents off stage without worrying too much about killing yourself, the shield break on the side b is great too.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 22, 2018, 08:13:25 PM
As mentioned, my main is Kirby through any game.

But I also like to switch it up from time to time including the other Kirby franchise characters of Meta Knight or King Dedede. I do like to use Donkey Kong, Samus, Pikachu, Link, Toon Link, Wario, Sonic, Captain Falcon (for that Falcon Punch! and Show me your moves!), and Villager. I have varying success with these other characters but if I'm not playing Kirby then I most likely to select one of these other characters depending on the version and if they are in the game.

There's other characters I'd like to use more but something about their moves or controls holds me back from selecting them too often. There are so many characters these days and the amount of time you need to spend working on each is not something I have ever contemplated doing.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 22, 2018, 09:18:17 PM
Probably been seen elsewhere, but it's going to be playable at E3, with a tournament to boot. So, there should be some details soon.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2018, 10:26:36 PM
OG: Samus, Link
Melee: Link, Mr. Game & Watch, Ness
Brawl: Lucas, Toon Link, G&W ROB
Sm4sh: Lucas, Random

I've tended towards smaller, faster characters over the years.  For Brawl, I pretty much would do the reverse order of that listing as I warmed up and got serious.  I remember once I played a friend of mine and beat him a couple of times as ROB.  When I saw him again a while later he asked me if I still main'd ROB, and I had to think about what he was talking about because Lucas was definitely my main.

Anyway, I started playing with Random because life is funner that way, but Lucas is still my best character, followed by Mr. Game & Watch.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 22, 2018, 11:25:46 PM
I've used Olimar as my main character since he was added. I especially love when I'm playing 4+ player matches and I can cause chaos by lobbing Pikmin into the fray.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 22, 2018, 11:28:24 PM
Dedede was the same way. I'd just toss Waddle Dees around and watch them get murdered by everything.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 24, 2018, 12:45:20 PM
We usually play random as well, but I'm convinced Pikachu was the best one in N64, with Link as a distant second.

In Melee and Brawl I would be best using Luigi, Captain Falcon, Link again and Dr. Mario. Though Jigglypuff was a stealth killer in Melee too haha. Smash 4 coincided with a sharp decline of friends coming by to play games, for me, so I'm not really good with anyone. Haven't even tried many of the characters yet either, like Dark Pit, the Duck Hunt Duo and a few other newcomers.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 26, 2018, 07:33:15 PM
My ideal roster. All I really need is Dixie and Ridley to be satisfied for all eternity but it's always nice to dream!
(https://i.imgur.com/mGyphsL.png)

As for the multi-characters Pokemon Trainer and Rick/Coo/Kine I'd like the Trainer to act as he did in Brawl but with the option to choose any of the 3 solo. For Kirby's buddies I want Rick as the "main" guy but different attacks or abilities have you randomly transform or team up with the other two. Take a look at Kirby Star Allies for the exact idea.


Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 26, 2018, 09:59:36 PM
Transformations are, in my opinion, not fun. We can agree to disagree on that.

I don't know why you would want more Kirby characters, but I respect a great deal of that list. Like you, I am a strong advocate for Hades in Smash, he was arguably the best part of Uprising and we need villains. Still think people are sleeping on Travis Touchdown, though.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 26, 2018, 10:50:16 PM
I liked Zelda/Sheik in Melee only because it was unique and more importantly, fast. I used to transform back into Zelda to use Nayru’s wind to get back to the stage. I never really liked Pokémon Trainer though.

I’d love to see Medusa. I liked her Uprising redesign.

Honestly, at this point, I’d be more surprised if Travis Touchdown wasn’t a newcomer. Goichi Suda is friends with Sakurai, asked him to include Travis, and there’s a new No More Heroes game coming out this year. Sakurai does whatever he wants so who knows? If Travis makes it in, one of his taunts should be playing with (cat) Jeanne, meaning I’d have a new go-to character.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 27, 2018, 10:11:11 AM
Really hoping for Travis Touchdown.  If only for how awesome the reveal trailer would be.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 27, 2018, 10:21:13 AM
My favorite roster pictures are the ones where Ridley takes up more than one character slot because of how massive he is.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 27, 2018, 12:09:55 PM
I cracked open Smash Bros Wii U for the first time in a year so I could introduce it to my kids who are both obsessed with Pokemon and LOVE that they can play as Pikachu, Greninja, Lucario, Jigglypuff, or Charizard. 


After playing it for a good hour with them and remembering just how many options there are to play different characters...I gotta say, I'm not sure I'll be buying the new game.  I can understand if someone wants it mobile, or if you've put-away the Wii U.  But I think I'm set on Smash bros unless I find it for $30 down the line.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 27, 2018, 02:36:34 PM
Is it because the options are so much that you think sm4sh will hold you for a while?  Or was the experience so underwhelming that you wouldn't be eager for a new one?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 27, 2018, 04:43:12 PM
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 27, 2018, 08:44:16 PM
Is it because the options are so much that you think sm4sh will hold you for a while?  Or was the experience so underwhelming that you wouldn't be eager for a new one?

The former, definitely.  Day 2 of it tonight, they’re absolutely satisfied with it and we’re having fun with the Wii U version.  They of course are pretty bad at the game, but even given that, lots of giggles in the House and fun other than having to mend bruised egos when one of them loses.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 27, 2018, 08:45:26 PM
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?

I mean...I get the feeling Pokken may be in our future if THATS the metric.

I do wish we’d get a weird curveball character announcement like Phoenix Wright for the new one though.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 27, 2018, 08:48:49 PM
I have said it once, and I will say it again. Bomberman for Smash Bros.  is the only new 3rd party character I want.

Long Nintendo history.  On every single Nintendo platform.  unique play style possible, being mostly a trap character. 

And one of the first multiplayer party fighting games.  If I was Nintendo I would buy the entire franchise to make it possible.  The character still has legs if you designed a new game featuring theme.

Next, I am really excited about Inklings.  There is so much potential for them to be extremely unique.  Swimming in Ink to Pop up unexpected and attack.  Ink could act like ice for characters, including a human form inkling.  Super Jump in squid form will be beautiful and awesome, then they could even have a special move to switch weapon layout making them kinda customizable to the battle.  Samus, use a sniper rifle.  DK, roller or paint brush power. 

OK, Bomberman is the only new character I must have for Smash Bros, but just for my own fun.  The new silly Retro Character they could add, that I would enjoy would be:  the twin Bubble Dragons Bub and Bob from Bubble Bobble.

Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 27, 2018, 08:50:29 PM
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?

I mean...I get the feeling Pokken may be in our future if THATS the metric.

I do wish we’d get a weird curveball character announcement like PROFESSOR LAYTON for the new one though.

There fixed that for you.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 27, 2018, 09:09:00 PM
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?

I mean...I get the feeling Pokken may be in our future if THATS the metric.

I do wish we’d get a weird curveball character announcement like ABRAHAM LINCOLN FROM CODE NAME S.T.E.A.M. for the new one though.

There fixed that for you.
Do you guys even curveball?

Also, Phoenix was in Ultimate MvC3. He was pretty terrible.

Also, Professor Layton has been replaced by girl Layton. Your argument is invalidated.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 27, 2018, 10:09:56 PM
My brother showed me a video a few years ago of this one dude who was hella good with Phoenix Wright in Marvel vs Capcom 3. I’ll have to try to track it down.

I personally like Bomberman, but I also hate Konami as a company now so as a matter of principle, I don’t want to see them succeed or even benefit at all by having any character in Super Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 28, 2018, 08:32:23 AM
But if the new game allows you to play as EVEN MORE POKEMON, how could you possibly resist...?

I mean...I get the feeling Pokken may be in our future if THATS the metric.

I do wish we’d get a weird curveball character announcement like ABRAHAM LINCOLN FROM CODE NAME S.T.E.A.M. for the new one though.

There fixed that for you.
Do you guys even curveball?

Also, Phoenix was in Ultimate MvC3. He was pretty terrible.


Sadly, I think i trust Nintendo to make a character like Phoenix Wright viable in Smash Bros more than I trust Capcom to make a fun/interesting moveset for a semi-serious fighting game.


A lot of why I want him in it is cause my wife & I have been slowly playing through the original Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney on Wii, and it's been fun seeing her reactions to stuff.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 28, 2018, 08:33:25 AM
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 28, 2018, 08:56:57 AM
Lolmonade:  I think the move set would be simplistic like Sonic.

His special moves would focus around his bombs.  Different directions and special allow him to place different bombs. 
Bomb, Rubber Bomb, Detonator Bomb. 

Picking up a bomb allows him to charge up the bombs, and the biast grows in size.  Bombs can either change in size or color to indicate charge. 

Detonator bombs can be blown up by doing a taunt. or another move.  I like the idea of having someone placing bombs, and causing a lot of random havoc on the screen.
 
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 28, 2018, 09:07:59 AM
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.
I don’t. Sakurai bases what he can on the actual games then makes up the rest. Looking at some existing characters, you can see how he uses their design to create certain moves. Take Ness, for example. He has a fairly large head so he got two separate headbutt moves.

There’s enough in Bomberman games to create several moves. Konami as a company just sucks now so, you know, I don’t want to see Bomberman in Super Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 28, 2018, 10:24:33 AM
I actually think Bomberman is a very possible candidate for new challenger, BUT I could see it being a challenge coming up with a moveset.
I don’t. Sakurai bases what he can on the actual games then makes up the rest. Looking at some existing characters, you can see how he uses their design to create certain moves. Take Ness, for example. He has a fairly large head so he got two separate headbutt moves.

There’s enough in Bomberman games to create several moves. Konami as a company just sucks now so, you know, I don’t want to see Bomberman in Super Smash Bros.


I guess I'm just not sure if Konami REALLY gains much by Bomberman being included in smash, as much as Nintendo gains by having him as part of the roster.  Sure, it's propping up a character they own and maybe helps elevate him along with the other platforms Bomberman r releases.


I don't like a lot of what Konami has done as of late either, but we're also beholden to them if we want to see some of their franchises exist in any capacity moving forward. 



Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: segagamersteph on March 28, 2018, 10:38:44 AM
Bring back the Ice Climbers, keep Pac-Man, introduce Ms. Pac-Man (if they haven't already), maybe grab Laura Croft or Duke Nukem as possible 3rd party, and Crash if they can't get Crash it's time to give up.

I think that is all I'd ask for, port, remake, new game it's all good to me just excited it's coming this year. I haven't turned my Wii U version on in a long time so I have no idea who the newest characters are. But I get excited for new things.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 28, 2018, 11:39:12 AM
I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: lolmonade on March 28, 2018, 11:51:54 AM
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 28, 2018, 11:56:56 AM
I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
That’s fair. I think it sends a bad message. Konami treats the people who created and/or made these IP what they are today like garbage then still benefits from their work later. Appearing in Super Smash Bros. is continuous marketing for providing a license for a character and very little to no other actual work on the game. It just doesn’t sit well with me. There are ways of running a business without being a dick about it.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 28, 2018, 11:59:17 AM
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

No reason we can't have both.

I guess I'm too selfish to care if Konami benefits from having Bomberman in Smash.  My personal delight at the idea is enough for me to justify.
That’s fair. I think it sends a bad message. Konami treats the people who created and/or made these IP what they are today like garbage then still benefits from their work later. Appearing in Super Smash Bros. is continuous marketing for providing a license for a character and very little to no other actual work on the game. It just doesn’t sit well with me. There are ways of running a business without being a dick about it.

Your feelings are very much justified.  I wish they could be a better company or just sell off the IP, but who knows when we'll get another Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Shaymin on March 28, 2018, 01:12:53 PM
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

No reason we can't have both.

I can think of one: Square Enix has basically locked all the old Taito stuff in a vault and isn't letting it out.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 28, 2018, 01:26:14 PM
Ice Climbers it is!
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 28, 2018, 07:48:04 PM
Retire Ice Climbers and replace with Bub & Bob.

I can support this.  Though I like Ice Climbers.  I really want Pokemon Trainer back.  I liked characters with multiple move sets.  Samus/Zero Suit  Zelda/Shiek  Pokemon Trainer. 

I would really like to see Mario get Cappy to differentiate himself from previous games, and Luigi to get his vacuum.  But I never really liked Luigi in the game.  I would also retire Jigglypuff, and all the Pokemon but Pikachu and give us 3 completely new Pokemon combatants. 
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 28, 2018, 08:08:35 PM
Puff is never going away. She's too popular in Japan.

Luigi should get a new moveset, but he's different enough from Mario as-is that there's no dire need for a change.

Charizard, Mewtwo, and Lucario are all fine. Keep them in. As much as I love Greninja, he occupies a weird space as a character with extremely fast moves and jumps but very low damage and very hard to execute kill-confirms (aka nothing that launches). He's like a worse Sheik, and when he had higher damage output in the early days of the 3DS, he was truly something to be reckoned with. Those days are gone...
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on March 28, 2018, 11:21:32 PM
Puff is never going away. She's too popular in Japan.

Not to mention having been in every Smash game. Jig's a legacy / OG smasher who's sleep move is a favorite out of all the characters and various moves they perform. Like a Falcon Punch!
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 29, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
Can't believe this heresy, "retire Jigglypuff"?! "Retire the Ice Climbers"?!
Mad lunacy, those are such fun characters!  :(  Smash needs as much weirdness as possible, getting stomped by Jiggly is hilarious and the Ice Climbers are a great excuse for an annoying auto-scroller stage.

I would agree that giving Mario more distinct moves would be cool, but at the same time he's kinda meant to be the 'easy, average' character to learn with right? So I don't think his entire moveset can be overhauled, maybe just the side-B attacks.

Saw Lara Croft being mentioned above, that'd be cool. She's iconic enough, Smash could use some more ladies, and she had several outings on Nintendo systems (GBA/GC/DS/Wii). Isn't the franchise currently exclusive to Xbox though?

Bomberman's moveset could be a lot like Snake's from Brawl right, plant bombs/throw bombs, then one rush attack on one of those mounts he can ride on. Just needs a good recovery move, maybe a steerable projectile like Ness/Lucas.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 29, 2018, 01:35:44 PM
1. I never really used Ice Climbers or Jigglypuff for anything but a lark. I’d never advocate getting rid of them. They have unique full movesets. No reason to retire them. I only suggested retiring regular Link in favor of Hylian Champion Link because we’d still have Toon Link. Characters with unique movesets should stay.

2. Yeah, Mario is meant to be the basic, easier-for-beginners Shoto character like Ryu in Street Fighter (Up+B is basically a Shoryuken). Then, Sakurai actually added Ryu who is weirdly this more technical, harder to master character in Super Smash Bros. Due to the nature of the series, I don’t think Mario ever really needed to be the Shotokan fighter because the gameplay is so inviting. There are no complicated button combinations. Sure, Mario could use some new moves though if given the choice, I’d rather Luigi get more Luigi’s Mansion inspired moves.

3. Rise of the Tomb Raider was timed exclusive on Xbox 360/One. Anyway, I’d argue that original Lara Croft is the iconic version. Second reboot Lara Croft hasn’t appeared on Nintendo consoles yet even if it’d be easier to fit her into the series since her main weapon is the bow rather than dual handguns. I know Bayonetta has guns, but they’re like magic guns. Sakurai specifically didn’t give Snake real guns.

4. Maybe have the kangaroo-like creature appear and have Bomberman jettison the animal like Mario does with Yoshi in Super Mario World.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on March 29, 2018, 03:45:41 PM
I think the issue with trying to change existing character movesets is that there are people like me who already like Mario and Luigi the way they are (though I didn't like the changes to Luigi in Brawl and after). I guess if they changed Mario, it would give more reason to keep Dr. Mario who would have Mario's old moveset. It probably makes less sense to have more than one Mario on the roster than it does with Link, since those Links are actually different people. But I feel like if they wanted a new moveset for Mario and Luigi, they'd need to find a way to keep the old movesets. I guess they could have both Dr. Mario and Dr. Luigi have the old ones?

I feel like this might be part of the reason they didn't change Ganondorf very much in Brawl and 4, aside from making new animations that better fit the character. They may have felt there were people who already liked the moves in Melee.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 29, 2018, 08:15:31 PM
Mop’s got it. With any fighting game, you run the risk of changing something too drastically that people will feel alienated. Add Nintendo fanboys/girls into that mix and you can imagine the consequences.

The risk of changing Mario is, with the exception of his Down Special, all of his moves are seeped in tradition and execute wel. He was one of the top tier characters in Smash 4. The only move I could see Cappy replacing would be FLUDD, because the latter has worn out his welcome/everyone apparently hates Sunshine.

I could imagine a drastic rehaul of Link’s moveset, IF the BotW Gear was a full-on replacement costume and the classic look was not an alt. There’s no logical reason BotW Link would have a boomarang or clawshot like classic Link. On the other hand, I think Nintendo risks a lot by disregarding the classic hero’s tunic. While some might say “leave that to Toon Link,” we all know that cat-person hybrid is an abomination and shouldn’t exist.

There’s a lot that COULD happen with this new Smash Bros.. it boggles my mind that, if they chose to announce two characters a week after E3 as it stands with the current roster, they could reach the end of the year without running out. I really wonder how they are going to create the hype train this time.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 29, 2018, 08:40:17 PM
I just hate clones, and I know an argument can be made for the variations to make them truly not clones, but Luigi's moves just never felt like Luigi.  I would like to see him get 1 or 2 moves that are truly uniquely Luigi.

Mario doesn't need to change.  I guess we could add a cappy powerup. 

I hear you loud and clear about Jigglypuff, though. 

As for Bomberman.  I think I would give him a recovery that is like NES.  A bomb that is dropped and immediately blows up.  This would cause him damage, but allow him to fly.  Since it causes damage you could allow him to do it multiple times in the air.  The riding his animal would be a nice dash attack that he could jump outta mid move and the animal continue on.  Kinda like Wario's motorcycle move.  Which I personally never liked. 

Bomberman needs to be a heavy character that doesn't have good close ranged attacks mostly bomb attacks.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 29, 2018, 10:10:43 PM
As someone who's mained Luigi in every Smash Bros and the reason I even called myself Luigi Dude in the first place, there's no reason to change Luig's moveset.  Unless you're someone who just spams fire balls all day, Mario and Luigi play completely different.  I'm not just talking about the moves that are entirely different like Mario's Cape and Luigi's Rocket, but even the ones that are similar have major changes.  Take the Up B, both have an uppercut but Mario's is a multi-hit that doesn't punish him as much if you miss, while Luig's is terrible for the most part unless you can get up close where it becomes a great KO move.  A Mario player can use Up B regularly as part of his skill set, while a Luigi player has to save it for when they have an opening.

A good Mario player and good Luigi player have 2 completely different playstyles and strategy's they need to use.  If Luigi's current moveset was to be replaced then I can't just start playing as Mario since the way he plays doesn't come close to what I was doing as Luigi.  This is why I'm always annoyed when people say so called clones need to be removed and replaced by 100% original characters.  Just because 2 characters might share some moves doesn't make them even remotely the same when even the slightest changes to a similar move can make a world of difference for people who actually take the time and master them.

There’s a lot that COULD happen with this new Smash Bros.. it boggles my mind that, if they chose to announce two characters a week after E3 as it stands with the current roster, they could reach the end of the year without running out. I really wonder how they are going to create the hype train this time.

Unlike the previous installments where we got a lot of filler with the Dojo updates, we'll probably have a higher ratio of major reveals.  Almost every night can be another stage and character reveal with gameplay and modes updates as well.  Hell, if we're looking at a game with significant more content then Smash Wii U had they could even have several updates on some nights with a character, stage and gameplay together and not run out.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 30, 2018, 09:41:33 AM
I could imagine a drastic rehaul of Link’s moveset, IF the BotW Gear was a full-on replacement costume and the classic look was not an alt. There’s no logical reason BotW Link would have a boomarang or clawshot like classic Link. On the other hand, I think Nintendo risks a lot by disregarding the classic hero’s tunic. While some might say “leave that to Toon Link,” we all know that cat-person hybrid is an abomination and shouldn’t exist.

There are boomerangs in BoTW, but you have a point with the clawshot.  There really is no equivalent in that game.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 30, 2018, 10:13:03 AM
I think the issue with trying to change existing character movesets is that there are people like me who already like Mario and Luigi the way they are (though I didn't like the changes to Luigi in Brawl and after).
I get what you’re saying, and I’d be more inclined to agree if each generation of Super Smash Bros. didn’t feel so different. Even if the moves look the same, they don’t always work the same way anymore. Once the attributes are changed, they’re almost different moves.

I don’t like the idea of changing moves for the hell of it. For a crossover fighting series that takes its roster from other IP, there should be some consideration in how these characters are adapted in subsequent installments as new games in each respective IP comes out. I can get behind replacing moves Sakurai invented for a previous Super Smash Bros. installment because there was no point of reference to one based on the actual games released since. In 1998, sure, Luigi was basically Player 2 Mario/Green Mario in most other games. Since then, Nintendo has really developed his character and given him more to do.

Additionally, these changes could be merely cosmetic. For example, Luigi’s Green Missile could conceivably be altered so he propels himself horizontally with the Poltergust 5000.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 30, 2018, 01:26:24 PM
Here's another, way less likely, third party curveball character I could see happen: Chase McCain from LEGO City.
Traveller's Tales were one of the few staple developers that continuinally supported the Wii U; Nintendo published Lego City Undercover; it was exclusive to the U for a while; they included it in its Selects budget line; allowed references to Nintendo properties to appear in it; there's a 3DS exclusive prequel; and presumably Nintendo again supported the main game enough for a Switch re-release.

Meanwhile, Lego has very few original characters outside of Lego City Undercover and some of the movies (of which Ninjago bombed, Bionicle is long irrelevant)... I could see them being allowed a character in Smash. In which case Chase McCain is probably the most obvious bet due to his strong connection to Nintendo (The Lego Movie Videogame was just a regular multi-plat).

What if Detective Pikachu is in the new Smash?


100% In favour of this. But then we also need Detective's Assistant Pichu to happen. The Watson to his Sherlock.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 30, 2018, 01:27:15 PM
I think we can all agree that, if a move were have equal or greater utility than its pre-existing counterpart, we would gladly accept it. Thinks like Bowser’s forward Smash, for example, are not only better than their previous iteration, they also look cool as heck.

I’m all for modifying movesets as it has occurred in the past, but I don’t think Luigi’s moveset needs to be changed just because “it’s too similar,” as others have noted. It should change for greater utility and accuracy.

Luigi already uses the Poltergust in his most recent Final Smash. The only other way I could see it working is as a command grabor his literal grab- the former would be a bit too similar to Kirby and Dedede’s own, the latter would be a genuinely unique tool, as few characters can claim to have a safety net with a wiffed grab.

...I’m talking too much eSports.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on March 30, 2018, 03:28:53 PM
Here's another, way less likely, third party curveball character I could see happen: Chase McCain from LEGO City.
Traveller's Tales were one of the few staple developers that continuinally supported the Wii U; Nintendo published Lego City Undercover; it was exclusive to the U for a while; they included it in its Selects budget line; allowed references to Nintendo properties to appear in it; there's a 3DS exclusive prequel; and presumably Nintendo again supported the main game enough for a Switch re-release.

Meanwhile, Lego has very few original characters outside of Lego City Undercover and some of the movies (of which Ninjago bombed, Bionicle is long irrelevant)... I could see them being allowed a character in Smash. In which case Chase McCain is probably the most obvious bet due to his strong connection to Nintendo (The Lego Movie Videogame was just a regular multi-plat).


I'm not so sure about Chase McCain.  I haven't played too much Lego City Undercover, but I'm not sure how much I think the Lego franchise needs representation.  But I would enjoy a LCU stage or assist trophy.  Like Chase comes out and builds something obnoxious.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on March 30, 2018, 04:56:53 PM
I'm not so sure about Chase McCain.  I haven't played too much Lego City Undercover, but I'm not sure how much I think the Lego franchise needs representation.  But I would enjoy a LCU stage or assist trophy.  Like Chase comes out and builds something obnoxious.


Yeah that's probably more logical, if they get any representation at all. Just saying I could see Nintendo give a nod to Traveller's Tales in this way, and Chase has the best potential for fun moves (up-B astronaut jetpack or farmer chicken glide, dynamite side-B from the miner outfit, a superbuild for the special smash etc.) out of most Lego characters far as I know.

But yeah highly unlikely to happen still, LCU was hardly a success.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on March 30, 2018, 06:05:07 PM
I’m all for modifying movesets as it has occurred in the past, but I don’t think Luigi’s moveset needs to be changed just because “it’s too similar,” as others have noted. It should change for greater utility and accuracy.
Depends on who it is. If it makes sense for two characters to have a couple similar moves (e.g. Mario/Luigi), sure. If it doesn’t, change them (e.g. Captain Falcon/Ganondorf). This should definitely be looked at on a case by case basis.
Quote
Luigi already uses the Poltergust in his most recent Final Smash.
I’m not crazy about locking it behind the Final Smash.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on March 30, 2018, 06:23:02 PM
What do you mean, “locking?” You don’t play high frequency item spawns with Smash Balls only? What are you, a casual?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on April 04, 2018, 11:54:14 AM
Ok here's an idea, Aeron from Pandora's Tower. He's not really relevant anymore and I don't think you could really make a sequel, but he could be a pretty unique character with his chain as his primary weapon.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on April 04, 2018, 01:11:27 PM
Ok here's an idea, Aeron from Pandora's Tower. He's not really relevant anymore and I don't think you could really make a sequel, but he could be a pretty unique character with his chain as his primary weapon.

Oh he would certainly make an interesting character with his chain and all the other weapons he can carry.  The low sales of his game and lack of awareness hurt his chances but I hope we at least get a song or two since Pandora's Tower had some great music that would fit well in some of the Zelda or Fire Emblem stages.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on April 04, 2018, 01:53:41 PM
I’d be pretty thrilled with having a music selection option to play any song on any stage. Maybe I want to listen to “Jump Up, Super Star!” in Umbra Clock Tower. Don’t judge me. You don’t know my life. You’re not my real dad.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on April 04, 2018, 10:50:15 PM
Ok here's an idea, Aeron from Pandora's Tower. He's not really relevant anymore and I don't think you could really make a sequel, but he could be a pretty unique character with his chain as his primary weapon.
This is so wild, I was just finishing up writing a piece on Pandora's Tower and saw this.

Aeron and Elena do have a trophy in Smash 4, and Aeron's chain would definitely offer some different tactics and possibly replace the Simon Belmont-shaped hole in our hearts, but I still feel like he's a bit too obscure/would only be included if a sequel were in the works.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on May 07, 2018, 06:50:04 PM
Will Ivan be revealed at E3 or will he be a secret character?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Sarail on May 08, 2018, 03:24:51 PM
MAIN TIME
Smash Bros: Kirby/Samus
Melee: Mario/Young Link
Brawl: Zero Suit Samus/Lucario
Project M: Charizard/R.O.B.
Smash 4: R.O.B./Greninja

There’s lots of characters I’ve wanted to be good with but never invested enough time into. The worst offenders are Shulk and Bowser Jr. from Smash 4. Two of my absolute favorite characters, fallen by the wayside.
Mine...

Smash Bros.: Marth
Melee: Ice Climbers
Brawl: Lucas
Project M: Squirtle/Lucas
Smash 4: Zero Suit Samus
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on May 08, 2018, 07:40:06 PM
Smash Bros.: Marth
Melee: Ice Climbers
Brawl: Lucas
Project M: Squirtle/Lucas
Smash 4: Zero Suit Samus
Marth wasn't in Smash Bros. 64. Perhaps you mean Link?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on May 09, 2018, 12:30:04 AM
Will Ivan be revealed at E3 or will he be a secret character?

Who's Ivan? Is he from Devil's Third? I feel I should know this but I'm drawing a blank.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on May 09, 2018, 02:22:00 AM
Will Ivan be revealed at E3 or will he be a secret character?

Who's Ivan? Is he from Devil's Third? I feel I should know this but I'm drawing a blank.
How could you forget the Wii U’s masterpiece, the cherry on top of its full-featured library?
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on May 09, 2018, 03:00:15 AM
There was such high demand for it that I wasn't able to pick up a copy and so I forced all memory of it out of my brain in order not to feel the soul-crushing disappointment of missing out on the greatest game of the last generation and possibly of all time. (Sorry Mighty Number 9) Thanks for bringing it up and reminding me. Now I can't even look at myself in the mirror again.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on June 01, 2018, 01:28:08 PM
As a new Smash game means people creating wish lists of characters they'd like to see in the game, I figured I'd take my own stab at that. Except, my list would be way too long, so I'm going to take a different approach and list some characters that I do not want to see in this new Smash game. Don't worry, mine isn't a list of Fire Emblem characters.

Pink Gold Peach - Mario Kart 8
Looking like a possessed statue come to life, this shiny reskin has haunted Mario spin-offs since her original reveal to gritted teeth back in 2014. Forget Luigi's death stare, Pink Gold Peach's cold, dead eyes could pierce into the souls of anyone foolish enough to face her, dooming them to become a lifeless gold statue themselves... Sounds like this would be one of her special moves were she to appear in Smash. I guess not being able to look at a character could be an interesting gimmick, or maybe she'd go full on Midas and turn anything she touches into gold. Either way, keep her far away, please.

Mario - too many Super Mario games to list
Okay, we get it, Mario is Nintendo's happy-go-lucky mascot. That doesn't mean he has to appear in every single game, and he's already had his turn in four prior Smash games (or five if you count the Wii U and 3DS entries as separate). I think I speak for absolutely everyone when I say that we would all like to see him retire and have his slot taken up by a deserving newbie - which means no one else on this list either. Besides, who is honestly buying a Smash game for Mario, a character usable in practically everything? Don't we get enough of him from the platformers?

Great Deku Tree - various Legend of Zelda titles
It's safe to say that The Legend of Zelda is an iconic franchise in gaming icon history, and one of its many iconic characters would be the iconic Great Deku Tree who first appeared in the iconic Ocarina of Time and has recurred many times since. However, being an icon in itself shouldn't be enough to get him included into Smash, but I have a bad feeling he's gonna make the cut if they want more Zelda representation. After all, I can't think of anyone else they could choose.

Rooted to the ground, this big tree can't even move, so he would probably appear in the middle of the stage and remain there for the entire match. How could other characters knock him off the stage, then? They can't, so he would probably have HP instead; he wouldn't be the first character to have a unique mechanic all to himself. For his moves, he could probably do things like poke sharp roots out of the ground at his enemies, as well as luring a foe into attempting to pull out the Master Sword from its stone, damaging them for being unworthy. If all four players chose Great Deku Tree, it will likely end in a stalemate.

Beep-O - Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle
This little round robot created by a nameless person serves as the guide in a crossover game nobody thought would work yet somehow did. Or did it? Yes it did. While I'm sure Ubisoft would love to have their most popular character in Smash, the problem is that it doesn't actually do anything except float around and make commentary on the Rabbids and other happenings. Then again, I think the moves learned for outside of battles are attributed to Beep-O, so perhaps it could have its ability to push blocks and pick up statues to drop on the heads of foes. I have a feeling that a plunger would also somehow be involved, so I guess it could also take over the role of plumber for the game.

Cappy - Super Mario Odyssey
With Mario almost guaranteed to be cut from the roster (at least I hope so...), this means Cappy won't be able to just be a move for Mario and will have to become his own character slot. After all, they should include characters from some newer games as opposed to just having a whole bunch of has-beens that everyone either doesn't remember or is too young to have played those old dusty games. What better newer title than the best-sellingest one on the Switch, which is destined to outsell every previous game that has ever existed.

As Cappy doesn't have enough going for him to create a full moveset, he would probably borrow some of the capture abilities from Super Mario Odyssey enemies. He could use something like the Uproot to jump, the Hammer Bro for projectiles, and of course, even the T-rex so that he could eat opponents, resulting in an instant KO. He could also have the ability to somehow throw himself at another player to "capture" them, and then take over controlling them for a bit, though if the character has some sort of headgear he'd have to knock it off first. If you're thinking this character sounds too powerful, pfft, that hasn't ever stopped them before.

The helper from Picross 3D - Picross 3D
I cannot recall if this thing has a name, but it's a little cube sort of thing with a face and some blocks missing which acted as the tutor for Picross 3D. Nintendo must also have some blocks missing from their own heads if they honestly think this would be a good character for Smash. As it doesn't seem to have any limbs, it would have to float around the stage, which would probably make it a lightweight character. I'm not really sure what sort of moves it could have since it doesn't actually do anything in Picross 3D, but I s'pose it could clutter the screen with tutorial text to use as a distraction. Perhaps its moves could work similar to Picross and place a grid over opponents, then try to chip away at each space, KOing the character once all squares are removed.

Monita - Nintendo Land
As a launch title and pack-in for Nintendo's greatest and most memorablest console ever, pretty much everyone is familiar with its affable host, Monita. Unfortunately, this means that the thing will likely be in Smash, seeing as how it's their most popular character in recent history. It's also a representative for a crossover game, so it would fit right at home in a different sort of crossover. Perhaps someday all these crossover games will be crossed over into the same crossover. Fingers crossed.

Luckily, it does have one hand, so it could at least have a few basic moves such as a punch. Its grapple would probably be kind of weak, though. Using its monitor, it could show a very bright image, causing more and more strain on the opponent's eyes the closer Monita gets. Incorporating the idea that Nintendo Land was twelve franchises in one, mayhap it could have a move pulled from each one of them, and its use would be determined by from which franchise is the stage being played, or the opponent(s). Its Final Smash would likely be displaying the sales numbers for Wii U on its screen, which causes the foe to become too depressed to continue the fight.

Creeper - Minecraft
Let's face it, a Minecraft rep is practically inevitable as a third-party character, given that it's close to becoming the single best-selling game of all time. While most people would think that Steve or Alex are the logical picks, a large portion of its audience probably isn't even aware those are the official names of the default character skins. No, when people think of Minecraft characters, the one which sticks out the most in our minds is amongst its numerous hostile mobs - and I'm not talking about Jean. (You know, Jean? The final boss?)

It stalks in the night. It doesn't burn up during day. It is silent, up until it is too late... of course it is the Creeper, unarguably the most dangerous enemy in the game. Seriously, quit arguing with me. Anyone who has played Minecraft longer than one in-game day probably has their own story to tell about this jerk, either disrupting their builds or destroying valuable items from its violent explosions caused by an inability to handle its anthropophobia. Unfortunately, this is all they can do, so in Smash they would likely have just the one move. While anyone caught in this massive blast would automatically suffer a KO, the Creeper, itself, would also be KO'd, never to return. As such, the best outcome this character could hope for would be a draw.

Prop C1 - Pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2
The most popular sequels ever as part of everyone's most favoritest Pokémon generation of all time, Black 2 and White 2 contained a side mini-game of sorts which allowed the player's Pokémon to star in various types of short movies. As nearly all of the movies were on a green screen sort of stage and all effects and backdrops were added afterwards in editing, the opponents in the movies were nothing but square props that the player Pokémon would attack, with the appropriate creature being added in later on screen. As Smash has yet to add any reps from Generation V, Prop C1 seems like the most logical choice, being part of the most memorable section in the game.

Without getting into the large amounts of Pokémon characters already in Smash, this thing would be a bad idea in a tortilla even if it were the one and only Pokémon representative. As nothing but a square, it would have trouble moving around, though it did have varying stats depending on which Mon it was going to represent in the finished movie. That means it would probably be given a random moveset in each match, with not even the player knowing what it could do without trying it first. The only way to view the prop's true form would be to watch the replay of the match, where the actual Mon would be edited into the video.

And there you have it, some of the worst choices they could make.

If anyone is still wondering, this list is facetious and should not be taken seriously in any capacity.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 01, 2018, 01:46:52 PM
Prop C1 for smash.

(https://cdn.bulbagarden.net/upload/5/5c/Spr_5b2_Humanoid.png)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Khushrenada on June 01, 2018, 02:04:42 PM
As a new Smash game means people creating wish lists of characters they'd like to see in the game, I figured I'd take my own stab at that. Except, my list would be way too long, so I'm going to take a different approach and list some characters that I do not want to see in this new Smash game. Don't worry, mine isn't a list of Fire Emblem characters.

Pink Gold Peach - Mario Kart 8
Looking like a possessed statue come to life, this shiny reskin has haunted Mario spin-offs since her original reveal to gritted teeth back in 2014. Forget Luigi's death stare, Pink Gold Peach's cold, dead eyes could pierce into the souls of anyone foolish enough to face her, dooming them to become a lifeless gold statue themselves... Sounds like this would be one of her special moves were she to appear in Smash. I guess not being able to look at a character could be an interesting gimmick, or maybe she'd go full on Midas and turn anything she touches into gold. Either way, keep her far away, please.

Mario - too many Super Mario games to list
Okay, we get it, Mario is Nintendo's happy-go-lucky mascot. That doesn't mean he has to appear in every single game, and he's already had his turn in four prior Smash games (or five if you count the Wii U and 3DS entries as separate). I think I speak for absolutely everyone when I say that we would all like to see him retire and have his slot taken up by a deserving newbie - which means no one else on this list either. Besides, who is honestly buying a Smash game for Mario, a character usable in practically everything? Don't we get enough of him from the platformers?

Great Deku Tree - various Legend of Zelda titles
It's safe to say that The Legend of Zelda is an iconic franchise in gaming icon history, and one of its many iconic characters would be the iconic Great Deku Tree who first appeared in the iconic Ocarina of Time and has recurred many times since. However, being an icon in itself shouldn't be enough to get him included into Smash, but I have a bad feeling he's gonna make the cut if they want more Zelda representation. After all, I can't think of anyone else they could choose.

Rooted to the ground, this big tree can't even move, so he would probably appear in the middle of the stage and remain there for the entire match. How could other characters knock him off the stage, then? They can't, so he would probably have HP instead; he wouldn't be the first character to have a unique mechanic all to himself. For his moves, he could probably do things like poke sharp roots out of the ground at his enemies, as well as luring a foe into attempting to pull out the Master Sword from its stone, damaging them for being unworthy. If all four players chose Great Deku Tree, it will likely end in a stalemate.

Beep-O - Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle
This little round robot created by a nameless person serves as the guide in a crossover game nobody thought would work yet somehow did. Or did it? Yes it did. While I'm sure Ubisoft would love to have their most popular character in Smash, the problem is that it doesn't actually do anything except float around and make commentary on the Rabbids and other happenings. Then again, I think the moves learned for outside of battles are attributed to Beep-O, so perhaps it could have its ability to push blocks and pick up statues to drop on the heads of foes. I have a feeling that a plunger would also somehow be involved, so I guess it could also take over the role of plumber for the game.

Cappy - Super Mario Odyssey
With Mario almost guaranteed to be cut from the roster (at least I hope so...), this means Cappy won't be able to just be a move for Mario and will have to become his own character slot. After all, they should include characters from some newer games as opposed to just having a whole bunch of has-beens that everyone either doesn't remember or is too young to have played those old dusty games. What better newer title than the best-sellingest one on the Switch, which is destined to outsell every previous game that has ever existed.

As Cappy doesn't have enough going for him to create a full moveset, he would probably borrow some of the capture abilities from Super Mario Odyssey enemies. He could use something like the Uproot to jump, the Hammer Bro for projectiles, and of course, even the T-rex so that he could eat opponents, resulting in an instant KO. He could also have the ability to somehow throw himself at another player to "capture" them, and then take over controlling them for a bit, though if the character has some sort of headgear he'd have to knock it off first. If you're thinking this character sounds too powerful, pfft, that hasn't ever stopped them before.

The helper from Picross 3D - Picross 3D
I cannot recall if this thing has a name, but it's a little cube sort of thing with a face and some blocks missing which acted as the tutor for Picross 3D. Nintendo must also have some blocks missing from their own heads if they honestly think this would be a good character for Smash. As it doesn't seem to have any limbs, it would have to float around the stage, which would probably make it a lightweight character. I'm not really sure what sort of moves it could have since it doesn't actually do anything in Picross 3D, but I s'pose it could clutter the screen with tutorial text to use as a distraction. Perhaps its moves could work similar to Picross and place a grid over opponents, then try to chip away at each space, KOing the character once all squares are removed.

Monita - Nintendo Land
As a launch title and pack-in for Nintendo's greatest and most memorablest console ever, pretty much everyone is familiar with its affable host, Monita. Unfortunately, this means that the thing will likely be in Smash, seeing as how it's their most popular character in recent history. It's also a representative for a crossover game, so it would fit right at home in a different sort of crossover. Perhaps someday all these crossover games will be crossed over into the same crossover. Fingers crossed.

Luckily, it does have one hand, so it could at least have a few basic moves such as a punch. Its grapple would probably be kind of weak, though. Using its monitor, it could show a very bright image, causing more and more strain on the opponent's eyes the closer Monita gets. Incorporating the idea that Nintendo Land was twelve franchises in one, mayhap it could have a move pulled from each one of them, and its use would be determined by from which franchise is the stage being played, or the opponent(s). Its Final Smash would likely be displaying the sales numbers for Wii U on its screen, which causes the foe to become too depressed to continue the fight.

Creeper - Minecraft
Let's face it, a Minecraft rep is practically inevitable as a third-party character, given that it's close to becoming the single best-selling game of all time. While most people would think that Steve or Alex are the logical picks, a large portion of its audience probably isn't even aware those are the official names of the default character skins. No, when people think of Minecraft characters, the one which sticks out the most in our minds is amongst its numerous hostile mobs - and I'm not talking about Jean. (You know, Jean? The final boss?)

It stalks in the night. It doesn't burn up during day. It is silent, up until it is too late... of course it is the Creeper, unarguably the most dangerous enemy in the game. Seriously, quit arguing with me. Anyone who has played Minecraft longer than one in-game day probably has their own story to tell about this jerk, either disrupting their builds or destroying valuable items from its violent explosions caused by an inability to handle its anthropophobia. Unfortunately, this is all they can do, so in Smash they would likely have just the one move. While anyone caught in this massive blast would automatically suffer a KO, the Creeper, itself, would also be KO'd, never to return. As such, the best outcome this character could hope for would be a draw.

Prop C1 - Pokémon Black 2 and Pokémon White 2
The most popular sequels ever as part of everyone's most favoritest Pokémon generation of all time, Black 2 and White 2 contained a side mini-game of sorts which allowed the player's Pokémon to star in various types of short movies. As nearly all of the movies were on a green screen sort of stage and all effects and backdrops were added afterwards in editing, the opponents in the movies were nothing but square props that the player Pokémon would attack, with the appropriate creature being added in later on screen. As Smash has yet to add any reps from Generation V, Prop C1 seems like the most logical choice, being part of the most memorable section in the game.

Without getting into the large amounts of Pokémon characters already in Smash, this thing would be a bad idea in a tortilla even if it were the one and only Pokémon representative. As nothing but a square, it would have trouble moving around, though it did have varying stats depending on which Mon it was going to represent in the finished movie. That means it would probably be given a random moveset in each match, with not even the player knowing what it could do without trying it first. The only way to view the prop's true form would be to watch the replay of the match, where the actual Mon would be edited into the video.

And there you have it, some of the worst choices they could make.

If anyone is still wondering, this list is facetious and should not be taken seriously in any capacity.

(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-05/enhanced/webdr06/27/13/anigif_enhanced-8047-1401212417-18.gif)
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: nickmitch on June 01, 2018, 02:32:39 PM
This is good content.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on June 01, 2018, 03:57:31 PM
Y’all are sleeping on Monita. Her attacks could literally be her just dropping Nintendoland rides on people. The entire thing.

Now I want to go play Nintendoland.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Discord.RSS on June 01, 2018, 06:30:47 PM
Great post mop it up!
I'm hoping they'll segue right from DragonBall Z Fighters into Smash, giving fanboys so much hope... Only to end with a Mii character dressed like Goku.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 10, 2018, 10:22:24 PM
So this could be interesting.  So there's a leaker named Vergeben who a few weeks ago said he's heard in the next Smash Bros everyone from Wii U is returning as well as Snake and the Ice Climber.  But the big reveal is Ridley and Simon Belmont will be new characters.

Of course like most leakers he's not always 100% right and has been wrong about things in the past.  But apparently he's said his most trusted source has told him the Smash Bros news is real.  This same source also told him a sequel to J-Stars would be announced at E3 which just happened with Jump Force.  Apparently the same source says Star Fox Racing is true and Konami will reveal a new Castlevania along with a Castlevania Collection for the classic games as well.

So yeah, something to think about until Tuesday.  I would certainly go crazy seeing Ridley and Simon announced so I'd be happy if true.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on June 10, 2018, 11:00:15 PM
I have only ever had a passing interest in the Castlevania series, with my favorite being Order of Ecclesia, so while I have no desire for a Belmont, I do think having a whip user would be pretty cool.

However, I highly doubt Ridley is getting in. I'd rather not set myself up for disappointment.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: pokepal148 on June 11, 2018, 12:50:48 AM
Getting snake back would be nice just to get Metal Gear Solid music and maybe the codecs in smash 5.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on June 11, 2018, 01:17:16 AM
Bloodstained’s Miriam uses a whip. That way, Super Smash Bros. can have a whip user while still sticking it to Konami by not including a Belmont so an Igarashi character can be included instead. Also, we’d get another female character.

A Castlevania Collection would be mighty tempting though. Symphony of the Night plus the GBA and DS games would make me question #fuckKonami. Am I so willing to give up my convictions for a kick ass compilation?

I mean, probably.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Evan_B on June 11, 2018, 03:15:01 PM
Getting snake back would be nice just to get Metal Gear Solid music and maybe the codecs in smash 5.
But the Kid Icarus conversations are vastly superior.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2018, 12:36:08 PM
Whelp, if there were any doubt Adrock was buying this, it's just been obliterated.
Title: Re: Nintendo Switch Super Smash Bros. (Working Title)
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 12:45:22 PM
I would have been content with a Peach alt, but “Here comes Daisy.”

Caterkiller will be pleased that Ridley is now playable.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Stratos on June 12, 2018, 12:48:09 PM
MAH BOI IS BACK!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2018, 12:48:49 PM
At least they added a Battlefield option in addition to all flat, but I hope they thought of an off switch for hazards and just forgot to mention that...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
I'm just so excited for Caterkiller. A decade later, dreams do come true!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 12:55:38 PM
I really like that Sakurai’s team updated the graphics on the older stages.

I wonder if Sakurai/Nintendo got David Hayter to return to voice Solid Snake. Also, Marth has an English voice. It feels... wrong.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: ShyGuy on June 12, 2018, 01:01:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sW6rbYX.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 01:04:25 PM
I’ve already heard one Daisy Ridley joke. Goddamn Mary Sues.........
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 12, 2018, 01:05:23 PM
He did, the mad man actually did it.  Every single fighter is now playable and Ridley is finally playable.  Well it looks like I'm quitting my job come December and never seeing the outside world ever again.

And damn this game looks amazing.  Watching the footage on Treehouse live right now and all the little touches and details they added to the game really make battles look better then ever.

Oh and according to Treehouse all of Gannondorf Smash Attacks use his sword now.  So yeah, looks like Sakurai is really going all out in addressing fan complaints while trying to please old fans as well.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 01:06:07 PM
New Amiibo announced - Inkling girl (but a Smash version) and Ridley (but super awesome!)

There will be a Daisy Amiibo to come. Not shown yet.




Just when you thought you were out of the Amiibo game, Nintendo pulls you back in! I'm getting a Ridley and Daisy!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2018, 01:08:55 PM
Do the "echo" characters take up their own slot on the select screen still, or are they a "costume alt" now, like Alph was?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 12, 2018, 01:11:06 PM
Oh ****, Saffron City from 64 is coming back as well.  Damn they're really going all out.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Mop it up on June 12, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
2019? I thought it said 2018...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 12, 2018, 01:26:52 PM
Lol, they definitely took it in the opposite direction I would have devoted resources to (Jesus Christ, young link), but I have to respect the extreme nature of it. They really nailed the look, though, just wonder how it plays. Seems like from the Direct they're acknowledging a lot of little nuances.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 01:28:18 PM
Whoops. Typed to fast. I guess 2019 is on the brain thanks to this E3. Corrected now. Thanks.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2019 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 01:28:47 PM
I wonder if Sakurai/Nintendo got David Hayter to return to voice Solid Snake.
Yes, confirmed by the man himself.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 01:59:35 PM
Box art:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZIC7dPH.jpg)

perfection.gif
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 12, 2018, 02:02:50 PM
The website is already up and we already have a music page.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/sound/index.html

Holy **** the new Brinstar Depths remix is fucking incredible.

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Evan_B on June 12, 2018, 02:23:09 PM
Yes.

Yes.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 12, 2018, 03:13:04 PM
Wow it gets even better.  They've uploaded 20 second clips of every fighter.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA1lIms2gwaB6ytzNm2IVd0JvnDXbLKTh

Some of these video's even reveal new things not shown in the previous footage.  The Mario one in particular shows a small glimpse at a New Donk City stage along with Jump Up Superstar playing.


So yeah, the fact they're teasing the New Donk City stage like this without fully showing it, I imagine a lot of the really new content is being saved for the coming months.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 03:28:11 PM
Linkle Link didn’t even include the trailer in the OP, did you really think the title was under consideration, Soren? DID YOU?!

OP updated because miracles continue to happen with Smash Bros. Ultimate.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dream Come True - Everything is here!!
Post by: nickmitch on June 12, 2018, 05:43:16 PM
Gannondorf has a sword for all his smash attacks now!  So many little tweaks!

Watching the tournament and seeing all the assist trophies basically confirm who isn't in is almost saddening.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
There are people legitimately complaining about the roster because there aren't more newcomers. I hate people.

In a post Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U world, I find it extremely difficult to take complaints about Echo characters seriously.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 09:13:58 PM
Well, to be fair, I think the lack of new characters is why people are viewing this as more a port and less of a new game which is silly but it does take away from the Smash hype cycle. Melee, Brawl, and 4 kept increasing the roster each time even though there were some subtractions on the way. Only seeing a couple new characters might feel disappointing at first but then you've got to remember they are already at 65 and not every single character is ever going to make it to this game. Your fanboy/girl wishlist will probably never come true for your obscure favorite characters.

What new characters are you expecting or that they can possible still add? Realistically, I think an ARMS character has the potential to show up. I think King K. Rool and Dixie Kong have a potential shot. Same goes for Chibi-Robo. Considering that all third party characters are in this game and Nintendo is giving each company just one character to represent, I'm actually starting to believe that Rare/MS may get Banjo-Kazooie in this game. Or Nintendo could do something to strengthen their growing Bethesda partnership and have someone like the Doom Marine appear. What else is there in third parties? (So sick of the Goku requests. Goku is not a video game character.) For Nintendo, what other character needs representation at this point? Perhaps Paper Mario makes it in. We've got three Links so why not three Marios. A second Xenoblade character?

Melee to Brawl was around 7 years. Pretty much all of the GameCube and the beginning of the Wii unfolded in that time for new things to be added and base the game around. Brawl to 4 was about 8 years. This is just 4 years. There hasn't been that much that was missing in 4 from then to now. Yeah, some franchises have a plethora of viable characters compared to others but how many entries from a franchise need to be included in this game? Look at how fans complained every time an entry was cut or subtracted between editions. If the expectation is that "once in - always in" it makes it harder to add new characters from a franchise.

Maybe it is Smash Bros. Greatest Hits edition but it's like a Smash Bros. Virtual Console. I can have all those characters and stages in one game without having to go back to previous editions and switch consoles to play them.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 12, 2018, 09:42:13 PM
Is it asking too much that people wait six months or probably fewer with leaks to find out if this is the final roster? Of course it is. I should expect less, not more from the internet.
What new characters are you expecting or that they can possible still add?
I already got Daisy AND Ridley. It’d be unfair if other characters from my personal list got in there. I’ll tell you who I’m not expecting. Midna is already an Assist Trophy so she’s a no-go. Mona could be a fun Wario Echo (may have to change the fart move), but there’s no chance Mona is picked over Ashley for WarioWare representation. KOS-MOS would be fun, but she would never be the second Namco character chosen.

I think the roster could use more villains and female characters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 12, 2018, 11:36:36 PM
I haven't watched the video yet, did they say every character ever, does that mean the Ice Climbers are coming back and nobody is talking about it or are they still out and nobody cares?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 12, 2018, 11:38:19 PM
They're back. They're in the OP with some pictures I posted. People have cared. They just haven't expressed it in this thread. Lots of Ice Climber love in Discord and Twitter.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 12, 2018, 11:53:18 PM
Thanks. I saw the other thread. Wow. This whole news makes me happy. Plus I love Daisy.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 13, 2018, 01:42:23 AM
What new characters are you expecting or that they can possible still add? Realistically, I think an ARMS character has the potential to show up. I think King K. Rool and Dixie Kong have a potential shot. Same goes for Chibi-Robo. Considering that all third party characters are in this game and Nintendo is giving each company just one character to represent, I'm actually starting to believe that Rare/MS may get Banjo-Kazooie in this game. Or Nintendo could do something to strengthen their growing Bethesda partnership and have someone like the Doom Marine appear. What else is there in third parties? (So sick of the Goku requests. Goku is not a video game character.) For Nintendo, what other character needs representation at this point? Perhaps Paper Mario makes it in. We've got three Links so why not three Marios. A second Xenoblade character?

So, I was thinking about this a bit after posting it and making supper but what franchises don't really have representation in Smash yet? Rhythm Heaven is one but I don't see any character being able to fit Smash from that game. Maybe as an assist trophy or some kind of item from the game.

Then I got thinking about the 3DS. The Pushmo series got started there so Mallo might be an option but what kind of moves would he have? He's just pushing or pulling blocks. So, pass on that. There's BoxBoy. That could be interesting as he creates and throws blocks around. Maybe there is something doable there. Then there is the Dillon series with Nintendo just releasing a third game for it. Dillon was already an assist trophy so Sakurai is aware of him. It's possible he could be moved up to the big time.

However, it would mark the first time that a character from a non-physical release game series would be included to the main roster. Generally, it is all been characters able to deliver and be found in retail game releases. I guess those are considered the bigger stars so I'm not sure if any of those potential new franchises would be represented.

That said, there are a couple other third party options that may have a good chance of getting included. Shovel Knight got his own darned Amiibo already and Nintendo's been a pretty big promoter of that game. It eventually did see a physical release so it meets that criteria of appearing in retail. They could always combine some moves with the other Knights too. A second option (although it seems much more of a longshot) is Shantae. She got her start on Nintendo systems and has had some physical releases and promotions by Nintendo. With the doors open on 3rd party characters with this game, maybe she's got a chance for this one.

I was reading a joke article of new characters to include in Smash and one idea was Metal Sonic. However, I'm not opposed to that idea. I'd love for Metal Sonic to be an Echo or skin of Sonic himself. Heck, even Shadow could be included that way but I'd prefer Metal Sonic over Shadow. With the good Sega and Sonic relationship Nintendo seems to have, it may be possible for the Sonic series to get a bit more exposure in the Smash world. Of the third party characters and franchises represented, Sonic is the one that I wouldn't mind seeing a couple other characters have appear like Tails and Knuckles but I don't think that will happen. Already saw Knux as an Assist Trophy so a couple skins/echoes to sneak in more characters might be the only way to make that happen.


One thing I noticed with some of the wishlists I was reading was how many of them were third party characters. I think its clear that at this point, Smash has done pretty well at covering the Nintendo characters most liked and wanted. Yes, there are always going to be some outliers like a Waluigi request or Geno request. But the fact that so many people are now talking and thinking about non-Nintendo characters shows that the well is starting to run a bit dry as to what new Nintendo characters need to be included in Smash.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Shorty McNostril on June 13, 2018, 02:12:15 AM
I just want to know what single player stuff is in the game.

I want a full single player campaign.  I have no inerest in playing online so if it's got next to nothing in the single player I won't be purchasing.  I loved Brawl's nice big campaign.  I'm not sure if I should be worried that they haven't mentioned anything yet.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 13, 2018, 02:36:10 AM
To sum up, my current wishlist for Smash Inclusion would be:

King K. Rool
Chibi-Robo
Twintelle
BoxBoy
Banjo-Kazooie
Paper Mario
Starfy
Prince Fluff
Rex/Pyra - One or the other or a combo like Ice Climbers
Isa or Saki (Sin & Punishment representation)

Ok. I am thinking why stop at potentially 70 fighters? Why not go for that 75 diamond gold anniversary type number? Probably won't happen. I had Dixie Kong on the list but I ended up dropping her because I don't think her moves would be as interesting as some of these other choices and most are new series and more appealing to me for representation. If only more DK character is to be added, I'd prefer it to be K. Rool.

I'm surprised at how my mind kept going to other Mario characters as well. Kamek, E. Gadd, Fawful, Wart were all characters that occured to me with potential and as surprising but I just limited myself to Paper Mario who's got more potential for varied attacks thanks to the RPG and Sticker Star/Color Splash adventures.

Other franchises without a main character representation would be Star Tropics, Golden Sun, Advance Wars/Battalion Wars. I did think of a character from Rhythm Heaven with base potential and that would be Karate Man. We see him kick and punch a lot in rhythm games but pretty basic. Yokai Watch and Professor Layton are also both without representation but Yokai may have the better chance of getting a character included over Layton. Having not played a Yokai game, though, I'm not sure what that might be like.

I think that's enough musing on potential Smash character surprise inclusions for tonight. Tomorrow is another day to get hyped as hopefully more Smash music is revealed on the Smash website.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 13, 2018, 02:43:05 AM
Is it asking too much that people wait six months or probably fewer with leaks to find out if this is the final roster? Of course it is. I should expect less, not more from the internet.

A large number of the Smash Bros fans have always had a problem with jumping to conclusions.  Remember how with 3DS/Wii U, Sakurai said in some interview after the game was revealed that making a game with the roster the size of Brawl was a lot of work.  Then right after many thought his comments meant the newest Smash Bros was going to have a roster the same size as Brawl meaning Sakurai was going to cut a lot of characters to make way for the newcomers and then started bitching about it.

Even though Sakurai never once said 3DS/Wii U would have the same roster size as Brawl, many jumped to that conclusion based on his comments about the development being hard work.  So now it's kind of the opposite where Sakurai announces everyone is returning and its a big task to have this many characters, which is making them think it means they'll be no more newcomers, even though Sakurai never once said that, along with Daisy and Ridley both being revealed after the statement about everyone returning being a big task.

I was reading a joke article of new characters to include in Smash and one idea was Metal Sonic. However, I'm not opposed to that idea. I'd love for Metal Sonic to be an Echo or skin of Sonic himself. Heck, even Shadow could be included that way but I'd prefer Metal Sonic over Shadow. With the good Sega and Sonic relationship Nintendo seems to have, it may be possible for the Sonic series to get a bit more exposure in the Smash world. Of the third party characters and franchises represented, Sonic is the one that I wouldn't mind seeing a couple other characters have appear like Tails and Knuckles but I don't think that will happen. Already saw Knux as an Assist Trophy so a couple skins/echoes to sneak in more characters might be the only way to make that happen.

One thing I noticed with some of the wishlists I was reading was how many of them were third party characters. I think its clear that at this point, Smash has done pretty well at covering the Nintendo characters most liked and wanted. Yes, there are always going to be some outliers like a Waluigi request or Geno request. But the fact that so many people are now talking and thinking about non-Nintendo characters shows that the well is starting to run a bit dry as to what new Nintendo characters need to be included in Smash.

Well all of the third party characters in Smash have popular characters from their franchises that could easily be made into Echos.

Sonic - Shadow
Snake - Big Boss
Mega Man - Proto Man
Pac-Man - Mrs Pac-Man
Cloud - Zack
Ryu - Ken
Bayonetta - Jeanne

Seriously, I would not be surprised if at least 3 of the characters I named end up getting in as Echos.


I just want to know what single player stuff is in the game.

I want a full single player campaign.  I have no inerest in playing online so if it's got next to nothing in the single player I won't be purchasing.  I loved Brawl's nice big campaign.  I'm not sure if I should be worried that they haven't mentioned anything yet.

The Subspace Emissary in Brawl was first shown on August 3rd of 2007.

https://www.smashbros.com/wii/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea02.html

This is back when Brawl was originally scheduled for a early December release that year like Ultimate does now.  So if Ultimate is going to have an Adventure mode, it could still be a few months before they unveil it. 


This is actually why I find it really funny how I see a lot of people on the internet thinking this game will just be a collection of content from previous Smash Bros when many of the previous Smash Bros didn't really show most of their new content until a closer period to launch then we are even at right now.  Hell, the Wii U version of the last Smash Bros didn't even unveil it's exclusive modes, Smash Tour, Master/Crazy Orders, and 8-Player Smash until a month before release.  It could literally be until late October/early November until we truly know everything this game has to offer.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2018, 09:32:02 AM
I’m not big on character/stage wishlists. My wishlist of not character/stages hasn’t changed since March:

1. Fix the menus. Make them cleaner and easier to navigate. Training should be on the main screen.
2. Ability to toggle off stage hazards because sometimes it would be nice to play the regular stage setup without the randomized BS that can kill you. (June 2018 EDIT: there’s talk this may be included beyond Omega/Battlefield mode)
3. Updated Smash Run Online and Local:
   a. At least 8 players.
   b. All players are in the same map and can interact with each other because...
   c. The map/"safe area" gets smaller until everyone is in the same area for the last minute or so then it's a regular match with all the bonuses everyone found. Yeah, it's just a Super Smash Bros. version of Fortnite.
4. Story mode:
   a. The characters are not toys or trophies anymore. They're non-canon versions of their actual selves. That means the writers actually have to care about characterization. Come up with some BS McGuffin for why the characters are brought to the same world. Why they're all together is not the interesting part; what they do once they are is.
   b. Fully voiced cutscenes.
   c. This is not Adventure Mode. As evidenced in Subspace Emissary, the gameplay doesn't lend itself to that. Think along the lines of Mortal Kombat (2011)/Mortal Kombat X. It's regular matches with exposition cutscenes. The story gave players a reason to keep pushing forward while also naturally allowing them to try all the characters except without silly platforming segments that really aren't the point of the game.
5. Tag Team mode. I don't know why this isn't already a thing.
6. Every character gets a taunt that causes minimal damage (like Luigi's bashful kick) for ultimate disrespkt. For example, Palutena's stripper pole taunt should count as a kick if you run into it.
7. Don’t turn Super Smash Bros. into games-as-a-service. In fact, I’d prefer if Super Smash Bros. Ultimate only received post-release patches, meaning no DLC. If it’s “ultimate,” I shouldn’t have to buy more things. I think the chances of no DLC are slim.
   a. Sakurai earned a break and a new non-Super Smash Bros. project.
8. Amiibo auto-unlocks a character. According to Sakurai, in-game unlocking will be hella easier. However, if you bought a $13 NFC statue, you should get to unlock that character immediately.
9. ”Colonel, it’s Jack Bauer! What’s he doing here?” Snake’s codec conversation when fighting himself on the Shadow Moses stage should reference David Hayter getting replaced by Kiefer Sutherland. I’m only half-joking.
   a. “Finally, the better princess joins the battle,” when fighting Daisy. Definitely NOT joking.
10. Voice-chat enabled with Friends List at least in the lobby, disabled for non-friends because no one wants to hear strangers ****-talk.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on June 13, 2018, 09:40:23 AM
When a vast majority of your characters are mute or don’t speak in full sentences, it’s difficult to characterize them.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2018, 09:56:43 AM
When a vast majority of your characters are mute or don’t speak in full sentences, it’s difficult to characterize them.
Maybe more difficult but definitely not impossible. There have been studies that have concluded that most communication is nonverbal. A character doesn’t need to have spoken dialog to have a personality. Unless the developers are actively trying to make a character a blank slate, characterization in a cross-over game is as easy as looking at the games the characters come from and staying true to them.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on June 13, 2018, 11:22:42 AM
When I discount my huge list of "never gonna happen" characters, the only realistic choice I'm left with is a character from the Wars series. That feels like the largest hole left in the current roster, or maybe that's just because of how much I like those games. But I think the series is pretty much dead, which probably means it won't be showing up.

While I'm just a passing casual player and some of the tweaks people have been talking about are lost on me, polishing up existing characters and stages is probably a good idea for the series at this point in time. What I'm hoping for, myself, is that they're adding a slew of new modes and options for multiplayer. I feel like little has been added to the vs. mode since Melee. I would also like all local modes and options to be available for online play.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on June 13, 2018, 01:38:45 PM
I’m not big on character/stage wishlists. My wishlist of not character/stages hasn’t changed since March:

1. Fix the menus. Make them cleaner and easier to navigate. Training should be on the main screen.

The menus in the 3DS almost felt unfinished in certain parts, so this is a big one for me as well.

What do you mean by "Tag team mode"?  Like just being able to select a number of different characters as separate stocks? Or being able to actively switch between them?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2018, 01:42:14 PM
What do you mean by "Tag team mode"?  Like just being able to select a number of different characters as separate stocks? Or being able to actively switch between them?
Actively switch between them.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: pokepal148 on June 13, 2018, 01:51:54 PM
That kind of would ruin the point of characters like the Pokemon Trainer though.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: lolmonade on June 13, 2018, 02:19:25 PM

I will say, in lieu of me getting characters I wanted or seeing a reduction in headcount as a trade for re-tooling some of the character movesets - Just going "screw it, they're all in there" is a good way to make a lot of people happy.


I'm not rushing out the door to get this version unless some of my friends end up wanting to play online together since I have the Wii U set up still, but I'm sure i'll get it at some point.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2018, 02:44:07 PM
That kind of would ruin the point of characters like the Pokemon Trainer though.
How so? Pokemon Trainer counts as one fighter with each Pokémon sharing the same damage meter. Then, each fighter in a tag team would have their own damage meter like tag mode in other fighting games.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on June 13, 2018, 05:49:58 PM
So I was thinking about something. If they've now come up with their own term for "clone" characters with the word "echo," do you think that means they're planning on adding a few more of them as well? I know they talked about this right before introducing Daisy, so maybe it was just to make it clear what she is. Still, seems a bit odd to create a whole term for just a few characters. I can certainly think of several other characters who could fit the bill (example: Isabelle for Villager).

Anyone else have thoughts?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on June 13, 2018, 05:52:52 PM
It certainly falls in line with Sakurai's past comments about liking to use clones for easy fan service. Make some new FE fans happy by adding Lucina as a Marth clone, Daisy as a Peach clone, etc. If it means we can get our favorites than I am all for it.


Would be a good way to add another Xenoblade character from the new game/content, or event some of the inevitable new FE characters that are bound to appear.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 13, 2018, 06:55:29 PM
So I was thinking about something. If they've now come up with their own term for "clone" characters with the word "echo," do you think that means they're planning on adding a few more of them as well? I know they talked about this right before introducing Daisy, so maybe it was just to make it clear what she is. Still, seems a bit odd to create a whole term for just a few characters. I can certainly think of several other characters who could fit the bill (example: Isabelle for Villager).

Anyone else have thoughts?
Yes. Absolutely. I think that’s the plan.

What I find confusing is that only Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy are considered Echo characters. Dr. Mario, for example, isn’t an Echo even though he’s literally just regular Mario with a white coat pretending he has a medical license. I’m not really sure what the criteria is for designating whether a character should be an Echo. Dr. Mario basically has one different move (Down + Special). That said, I was thinking it’s just same animations, different attributes. Lucina is straight up shorter, female Marth. Same move set, same animations (beyond taunts), just no tipper damage. Daisy has some different animations, and Dark Pit has a different Final Smash. Both of these things blur the definition of Echo characters even more.

Is one move where Sakurai draws the line? I’m curious because this may open the doors to a wider (better) selection of characters. For example, say Sonic gets a 1:1 Echo similar to Lucina. We’re stuck with what, Shadow (ew). Change one move and we could get Knuckles or Tails.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 13, 2018, 07:47:23 PM
From what I've seen, here's pretty accurate list of characters I think have the best shot at being Echos.


Donkey Kong - Funky

Very similar body type and was playable in the recent port of Tropical Freeze where he's also very much like Donkey Kong.  He was also playable in Mario Kart Wii which sold over 35 million copies so he's pretty well known by people around the world.  Plus if he has Funky voice and some meme tastic taunts and he could be a new fan favorite.

Ness - Ninten

I mean Ninten already looks extremely similar to Ness so it's not like they'd have to change his model that much.  Plus if Fire Emblem can have Marth, Lucina and Roy then it's not hard to imagine Mother getting Ness, Ninten and Lucas which would literally be the exact same situation.  Plus this would then make the stars of every Mother game as a playable character, which would be a nice way to try and please that small but extremely devoted fanbase.

Captain Falcon - Black Shadow

Now that Ganondorf finally uses his sword in all his Smash attacks, combined with the other changes he's been given between Brawl and For, he's pretty far removed from the slower but more powerful clone of Captain Falcon from Melee.  Black Shadow as an Echo would be the perfect and easy way to give the Ganondorf fans of Melee that old moveset back.

Sheik - Impa

Impa's design from Skyward Sword and Hyrule Warriors would fit Sheiks built and moveset pretty well.  Plus like I've said before Impa would be the most important reacurring Zelda character behind the current cast so if Sakurai wanted to include another Zelda character that wasn't Link, Zelda or Gannondorf, making her an Echo of Sheik would be an easy way to do it.

Roy - Eliwood

The 7th Fire Emblem was the first one released in the West and Eliwood was the main character of that.  When Lyn as an Assist trophy and Hector requiring a unique moveset to get in, if Sakurai wanted to appeal to fans of that game Eliwood would be the easiest to get in.

Snake - Big Boss

Well Snake is already a clone of Big Boss in the MGS universe so it would be fitting that Big Boss gets in as a clone in Smash.

Ike - Chrom

Chrom was originally planned on being playable in the last Smash before Sakurai decided Robin would be a more unique character to put in.  He's still pretty popular among Fire Emblem fans so if Marth can have his own Echo with Lucina who's Chrom's daughter, then using Ike to add him would be pretty easy to do.

Sonic - Shadow

This one is about as obvious as it gets.  He's still really popular with a large percent of the modern Sonic fanbase and the easiest Sonic clone to make.

Olimar - Louie

Yeah I knew Alph is already an alternate custom for Olimar but if Sakurai wants to give Pikmin a second character that's somewhat different, Louie would make a good Echo.  Plus he's secretly evil so it could give another villain to the roster.

Villager - Isabelle

Isabelle would be the most popular Animal Crossing character that would make sense to have Villagers moveset as well.  If they want a second character from this franchise but don't want to make something unique, this would be the most fitting Echo.

Mega Man - Proto Man

Now this one could be tricky since he's already part of Mega Mans Final Smash.  Still, after playing Mega Man 9 and 10 I would love to see Proto Man get in as a more powerful version of Mega Man, but he'll take a lot of damage like the game he was from.  He could be a great glass canon character that would be easily to implement with Mega Mans moveset.  I mean, they could always find a way to edit Mega Mans Final Smash so if it was used on Proto Man he just wont appear in it.  Yeah this one is more wishful thinking on my part but I'll still keep my fingers crossed.

Palutena - Medusa

This one would be controversial because Medusa easily has a lot of things from her fight in Uprising to make her unique.  But Kid Icarus isn't exactly the most popular Nintendo franchise and I'd imagine more requested characters would be given the time and attention for unique movesets.  Still, since Medusa has the exact same body type and uses a staff like Palutena, if Sakurai wants her to be in just for the fan service like Dark Pit, I could see him adding her as an Echo.  Plus it would give the series a female villain, something it currently doesn't have in the roster.

Pac Man - Ms Pac Man

I mean all they really have to do it make Pac-Man faster and add a bow and lipstick.  Probably the easiest Echo character to implement.

Ryu - Ken

Reading about Sakurai's past will show he was a huge Street Fighter 2 fanboy back in the early 90's.  I would not be surprised if he really wants to add Ken, and making him an Echo of Ryu would be an easy way to do it, and match how he was in Street Fighter 2 as well.  Plus Ken is still insanely popular with the Street Fighter fanbase so there's a lot of people who would easily be behind him doing it as well.

Cloud - Zack

This one is probably the least likely but hey, Zack is popular with the Final Fantasy 7 fanbase and even had his own game.  So if they want to make the Final Fantasy 7 fans go crazy, Zack would be the easy choice to squeeze another character from that series in.

Bayonetta - Jeanne

This one I wouldn't be surprised if it happens.  She's plays exactly like Bayonetta in both games so it's not like anyone will complain if she's a clone of her in Smash Bros since it would literally be 100% accurate to the source material.  Plus since Bayo was the most requested character to appear during the DLC poll, it gives an extra reason to give her fans another character to play as from that series.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on June 13, 2018, 08:47:57 PM
All of those choices disgust me.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: pokepal148 on June 14, 2018, 02:08:16 AM
So Pokemon Trainer can just switch pokemon with the snap of a finger? Interesting... let's go for victory by transformation spam.

Also apparently gamexplain has found evidence for possibly 83 different stages that have been shown so far. Holy ****.

That kind of would ruin the point of characters like the Pokemon Trainer though.
How so? Pokemon Trainer counts as one fighter with each Pokémon sharing the same damage meter. Then, each fighter in a tag team would have their own damage meter like tag mode in other fighting games.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2018, 11:19:29 AM
I’ve been so busy since the reveal I haven’t had too much time to post anywhere but holy heck did my emotions run wild!

I heard all the rumors pointing to Ridley so just this time I decided to record my reaction. Soon as this dumb thing uploads i’ll post it. I cried a bit. I literally cried. Yes I might be emotionally unstable but I got Ridley! I’ve been talking about playable Ridley since Planet GameCube!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 14, 2018, 12:01:49 PM
I am all for more characters and more levels or stages but I also want options to make the game playable more like previous versions and new modes.

I do not like the idea of changing the story where they are no longer toys, defeats the purpose of the whole series and diminishes the role of the Amiibo which if you think about it Nintendo should have been making since Smash 64 debuted.

If they add more 3rd party characters or echos of existing ones I would prefer Tales or Amy over Shadow or Metal Sonic.
Same with Mega Man I would prefer someone like Zero for a clone/echo or Dr. Wily over Proto Man.
I would still prefer more 1st party characters over 3rd party ones. I like the fan service of the games that's the only reason I play. Otherwise, I suck at them and hate the online super competitive scene.

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2018, 12:43:47 PM
Well it took 60 years but Ridley is finally in the game. I went to my brothers place and just leaned my phone up against something to record our reaction. If Ridley was going to be in the game after all those rumors I want to relive the moment forever!

As you can see from my awesome DK tie I was dressed to impress at the tournament!


Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 14, 2018, 02:00:32 PM
https://youtu.be/Kc5y6dlkANM

How can I post videos right into the post? Not just the link.
See the “https”? Take out the “s” because the BBCode won’t work. Then, put the entire YouTube link between “[youtube*]” and “[*/youtube]” but you must take out the “*” from between the brackets. I only added them to show you the BBCode otherwise the forum would think I’m trying to post a YouTube video. Also, I don’t believe mobile YouTube links work.

Also, I expected a more enthusiastic reaction. Quite frankly, I’m disappointed, sir. I had to walk outside when Daisy was announced.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2018, 02:43:42 PM
Thanks! I assumed my reaction would be bigger as well but you know what I had a ton of emotions going through my mind. Remembering my discussions and arguments from high school through Brawl to 3DU and up until now, well it left me nearly speechless and tears in my eyes.


Never cried for gaming reveal before.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 14, 2018, 02:47:06 PM
I was joking. That was a great reaction. “What just happened? What just hap-“
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on June 14, 2018, 03:03:45 PM
I was joking. That was a great reaction. “What just happened? What just hap-“

I see! Congrats on Daisy!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on June 14, 2018, 05:54:45 PM
He's so scary!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: ShyGuy on June 14, 2018, 07:14:02 PM
That was great! Caterkiller's reactions are in my E3 top 10
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: MagicCow64 on June 20, 2018, 10:29:12 PM
From an interview with Sakurai about Ultimate:


"First, I thought whether I should design the game’s mechanics as a new, separate entry or as an extension of past entries – the result, as you can tell, was the latter. Otherwise, size of the roster would probably be about a third of what it is now. There’s people who’ll still probably say that “the earlier entries are better,” too, of course; but while that mindset is something I should consider, I felt that “now isn’t the time to be thinking about that sort of thing."

That first thing was exactly what I was saying before! Maybe next time.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 20, 2018, 11:16:35 PM
For me, only Melee felt almost entirely new. The other subsequent installments felt like extensions (Ultimate looks like one and is pitched as such), and only Brawl felt like a step back to me.

I wonder what Sakurai means by “[designing] the game’s mechanics as new.” Would it be like the difference between the various Street Fighter series in which there are definitely familiar moves but the specials meters and certain mechanics significantly set each apart? Or would it be like a complete overhaul like a 3D arena fighter like Power Stone?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: segagamersteph on June 21, 2018, 11:02:11 AM
Didn't Nintendo once claim Twilight Princess would be the last traditonal Zelda ever? How is that working out.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on June 21, 2018, 12:27:10 PM
Didn't Nintendo once claim Twilight Princess would be the last traditonal Zelda ever? How is that working out.
At the risk of going off-topic, I’d say it’s working out pretty well. Considering the new games that came after, Twilight Princess was the last traditional Zelda:

1. Phantom Hourglass (2007): first entry to use touchscreen controls
2. Spirit Tracks (2009): second entry to use touchscreen controls, first to let you (occasionally) play as Zelda
3. Skyward Sword (2011): first and so far only entry to primarily focus on motion controls
4. A Link Between Worlds (2013): ditched ordered dungeons; forced players to rent/buy new items, all of which are available fairly early
5. Tri Force Heroes (2015): three-player co-op, no two-player option, shared heart meter, emphasis on stacking Link like a totem pole
6. Hyrule Warriors (2016): musou-style gameplay
7. Breath of the Wild (2017): first open world air entry, completely ditched standard dungeons, green tunic is obscenely difficult to obtain without Amiibo and also seems intentionally designed to look dorky
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on July 07, 2018, 04:19:19 AM
Who likes Smash Bros. character inclusion rumor speculation?

Today's rumor is brought to us by Inverse.com via a 4Chan Leak (https://www.inverse.com/article/46760-4chan-leak-reveals-11-new-super-smash-bros-ultimate-characters) so you know it's legit. Although, the Smash 4 leaker was pretty spot on for awhile until Chrom turned out to be replaced by Lucina and just part of a Final Smash attack and the Chorus Kid(s) fighter never amounted to anything.

Anyways, for those to lazy to click the link to read the article, here's the 4Chan post itself:

Quote from: clearly Sakurai himself posting on 4Chan to troll us all

OK Kiddies, see if you can figure this one out.

July: The characters “King” and “Ponytail” will be revealed in a mini direct

August: The character “Old Man” will be revealed at years EVO

September: The character “Archer” will be revealed in a direct of some kind

October: The Characters “Warrior” & “Secretary” will be revealed in a Smash Ultimate focused Direct.

November: The character “Mech” will be revealed in a surprise character announcement

The other characters: The Characters “Rhythm” “Folklore” “Doll” and “Prime Ribs” won’t get reveal trailers until post release.

As for the supposed answers to these codenames, let's start with the first two. King could be King K. Rule and Ponytail could be Dixie Kong. Two characters that have long been getting requests for inclusion since the time Brawl was getting made. Perhaps the decades of campaigning has paid off. It would double the DK Universe roster from 2 to 4 so I'm not opposed to it but I personally have walked away from Dixie Kong inclusion as I just don't think she actually has a lot of interesting fighting moves and there are other characters that I think would be more fun and unique instead. However, I absolutely will take a K. Rool inclusion as he does have a lot of different moves from his boss fights that could be used.

There's also been a rumor that there is a Nintendo Direct coming near the end of July for Nintendo to talk about more of their plans and releases for the rest of the year. Particularly since they didn't provide much news on the 3DS and the release dates for the few games still coming out on it. If this Direct does actually happen this month, it will be the big test for this rumor and how long it stays relevant.

As for the other code names: Old Man could be Cranky Kong (doubtful and please no) or Heihachi, the patriarch villain from the Tekken series since the debut is happening at the EVO fighting tournament. To which I say, who? (like Star Lord announcing himself as though I've heard of him before) and a God No! as well. But who else might make a noteworthy Old Man for Smash inclusion?

Archer could be Decidueye as an inclusion from Pokemon Sun and Moon and to give Smash its latest current Pokemon representative. Not being much of a Pokemon player, is Decidueye a popular pokemon from the Sun/Moon games? I knew about Lucario before his addition to Smash but didn't know Greyninja until his inclusion so this would be the same reaction to his reveal for me. Otherwise, with Archer, my first thought goes to Fire Emblem.

Warrior is getting Simon Belmont guesses but I'm dismissing that with Snake already representing Konami. If any third party is getting a second character in Smash, I'm sure it would be Sega who has all manner of other Sonic characters that could be included along with other franchises like Super Monkey Ball, Nights, Shenmue, Phantasy Star Online, Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon or Toe Jam and Earl just to name some of the crazy and interesting possibilities from them.

Secretary though is pretty much at a consensus of being Isabelle from Animal Crossing and given how well New Leaf did and her huge popularity from that game, it makes the most sense to this code name. And I can see Isabelle being upgraded from Assist Trophy to Fighter except not as a new original fighter but as an Echo for Villager. Still, it seems weird that she'd be the second to make the jump from Assist Trophy to Fighter after Little Mac considering some of the other choices.

Mech is wide open as to who that could be. Inverse supposes it might be a reference to Elma from XCX but that's just a guess. Obviously, Nintendo revealed the Machina game at E3 about Mechs so maybe that could be what it refers to. Then there is the Custom Robo series which has had very little Smash representation.

As for the final four, Prime Ribs might be a Metroid character like Dark Samus, Rhythm would seem to be a Rhythm Heaven character but who or what character is unknown but we're going back to the Rhythm rumor again for this Smash Bros. Doll might be Geno from good old Super Mario RPG and no one knows what Folklore could be which probably disappoints the leaker who thought it was a good clue to have people guess some weird character and go bonkers.

All in all, I highly doubt this is anything. If we go by some of these guesses, the remaining characters just seem kind of weak for inclusion. This leak would seem to indicate that there will be no inclusion of an ARMS fighter which is always a possibility but it seems like low hanging fruit and an easy game to adapt a character to make fit in Smash.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on July 07, 2018, 05:36:48 AM
On the subject of character inclusion, I wanted to go back to this post by Caterkiller that I had looked up after the E3 Direct and dissect it a bit more.

My ideal roster. All I really need is Dixie and Ridley to be satisfied for all eternity but it's always nice to dream!
(https://i.imgur.com/mGyphsL.png)

As for the multi-characters Pokemon Trainer and Rick/Coo/Kine I'd like the Trainer to act as he did in Brawl but with the option to choose any of the 3 solo. For Kirby's buddies I want Rick as the "main" guy but different attacks or abilities have you randomly transform or team up with the other two. Take a look at Kirby Star Allies for the exact idea.


That's a nice 80 character roster that won't be accurate. Let's dismiss the Smash alum that we now know are all going to be in and the couple new additions revealed already and focus on the rest.

K. Rool / Dixie Kong - It's starting to feel like the calls for their inclusion are getting much more vocal from Smash 4 to now and they are starting to have an almost inevitable feeling of inclusion. Almost. It's hard to say how much Nintendo values K. Rool. He's made a few appearances in things since Rare's split like King of Swing/Mario Baseball yet Retro has left him and the Kremling crew out of the new DKC games they've made. Dixie has had more of a presence but I'll reiterate that aside from swinging her ponytail and cartwheeling what other moves are people expecting her to bring to the fight?

Captain Toad / Geno - As soon as I finally finish BotW 100%, I'm going to play Captain Toad. Serious this time! But from playing Mario 3D World, I just don't see how you include a character that doesn't jump, walks slow and has no attacks. Sure he carries and axe but I don't recall ever using it in 3D World. However, I make a concession that Toad himself might possibly be included. He could run and jump in SM2 aka Doki Doki Panic version. And there will be the SM2 stage from Melee included so you could have a Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad battle if added. Plus, Toad has been thrown in as a playable character in the NSMB games and 3D World. You might be able to then have a Captain Toad costume for him but I just don't see the Captain himself being included. As for Geno, no. If I'm Sakurai and in charge of Smash, I'm not adding Geno. I like Geno. He adds some charm to Super Mario RPG but once I've acquired Peach and Bowser, I really don't use him much after that in the game. He can shoot pellets from his arms or blast his arms off but what else do people think he can use for moves or want to see him do? He's not the most memorable part of the game. In fact, I put Mallow ahead of him even. He's appeared in nothing else. I'm not sure if Nintendo or Square own his rights and Square already has Cloud in the game. It ain't happening, Geno fans. If it does, I will be super shocked. More shocking than Ridley.

Tails / Knuckles - I mean, I would welcome more Sonic Characters into Smash. Sega could probably make a Smash game of their own with Sonic characters (and a few additions from other franchises) and make a special part of the Sonic fanbase very happy but until we see a third party get two characters of theirs included in Smash then I believe Nintendo is limiting them all to one and done. Still, if any third party could get a second addition, I do believe it to be Sega. And if Sega were to get that milestone, I think it would just be an echo character for Sonic like Shadow or my personal choice of Metal Sonic. But we already know Knuckles is an Assist Trophy so he's out. If Tails has a chance of appearing in this game, I think it would be as an assist trophy also. Maybe next Smash Bros. when Sakurai is probably gone and someone else has taken over and they cut back on the other third parties being included. Then they can make up for the lack of Konami and Capcom with more Sega and Sonic characters.

Ganon/Skullkid - Most likely ain't happening and I've no problem with that. Wasn't Skullkid an assist trophy before? Probably be back as that again. And Ganondorf uses a sword now so why do we need Pig Ganon? Be better off including a Guardian Robot or Lynel before including Pig Ganon. With three Links in this game, I don't think the Zelda series is getting any other fighter additions.

Decidueye - I was just wondering if he was a popular Pokemon in my post about the 4Chan leak and see he's been included in this mock-up so I guess he/she is. Therefore, I guess this character may actually have a good/high chance of making it if the Pokemon fanbase has been vocal about it being a popular character.

Waddle Dee / Koo Cine Rick - I get the appeal of having another Pokemon Trainer type fighting but I think this is an incredible longshot of ever happening. Until Star Allies, these characters were never standalone. They were like Yoshi in SMW. Unlike Yoshi, they never got a game of their own to make them into unique characters with their own gameplay. They depend on Kirby using them and piggybacking off his copy abilities. If the Kirby series does get another character, it does seem that Waddle Dee would be most likely with his inclusion as the fourth character in multiplayer Kirby games. However, I don't find him a particularly interesting character nor do I think he brings any special moves to the party so I'd be fine if he was passed over in place of other interesting characters.

Wonder Red - With how Wonderful 101 has seem to come and go in more gamer's consciousness and no sign of this game or series continuing on, I just don't see Red getting a roster slot in addition to the fact that PlatinumGames already has Bayonetta representing them so I'm sticking to my one character per third party theory and don't see Nintendo breaking it to include Wonder Red of all third party characters out there.

Spring Man - Once again, I agree that an ARMS character and even stage would make an easy fit to include in the Ultimate. I think the odds are good and I'm on board with it (even though I haven't played ARMS yet myself) but the only thing I disagree on is that character being Spring Man. Of all the characters, he just seems the most bland and generic to me. I would put every other character ahead of him as the possible ARMS representative. Frankly, my money is on Min Min with her ramen connection and to include more female characters.

Rhythm Monkey - Having played Rhythm Heaven Megamix, I would like to see some kind of representation for the RH series. I just didn't see how since the games are quite varied and there is no real central character. Now that I know what the Chorus Kids are like and how their music games play, the idea that they could have been included as a fighter in Smash 4 is ridiculous to me. But then I got thinking about Karate Joe. He appears in a punch of Rhythm games. He punches and kicks. He could dropkick bombs and crates or toss soccer balls, pots or rocks at other players. There's an outline of a possible fighter here. But the Wii version really seems to have focused on adding monkeys into the Rhythm Games. Seeing the monkey shown here made me realize that larger monkey presence in Megamix as well from those Wii games. So, perhaps something could be done with the monkey as well and it might allow for more flexibility to include moves from other rhythm games the monkey isn't in like hitting a badminton birdie into another player. The monkey could throw golf balls at fighters or it could grab a fighter and then tap dance on them for a couple examples of how to include actual moves from the rhythm games. If a fighter is included from the RH series, I think it could be a pretty inventive fighter based on how its moves are created and hopefully provide a different type of fighter. I didn't think there was a way to represent this series in Smash but I've now come around on the possibility and with Karate Joe or the Monkey there is a base that I think the Smash type could start with and work from. I'd love to see it and it could fit the mold of a surprise Sakurai choice like Wii Fit Trainer or Duck Hunt Dog but I'm not sure where this series is on Sakurai or Nintendo's radar on trying to get it worked into Smash.

8 more characters to go over in this chart but I've typed enough late night Smash musings for now so the rest will have to wait for a follow up post.






Also, congrats to Stratos for correctly predicting the Ultimate before it was Ultimate:

I also fully expect every alumni player possible to return, because that should be a priority. Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers need to be in.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on July 07, 2018, 08:29:58 AM
I like Castlevania though I still dislike Konami. I wouldn’t hate Simon Belmont though I think Trevor or especially Richter are better choices. I’d be in favor of including Miriam from Bloodstained. I wouldn’t bet on it though.

I’m still on the KOS-MOS wagon. I think her chances are slim, but she apparently, got new life as a Rare Blade in Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

Dark Samus has no business being an Echo character. I’ve seen that floated around. Dark Samus must have her own moveset.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 07, 2018, 08:04:36 PM
Who likes Smash Bros. character inclusion rumor speculation?

Today's rumor is brought to us by Inverse.com via a 4Chan Leak (https://www.inverse.com/article/46760-4chan-leak-reveals-11-new-super-smash-bros-ultimate-characters) so you know it's legit. Although, the Smash 4 leaker was pretty spot on for awhile until Chrom turned out to be replaced by Lucina and just part of a Final Smash attack and the Chorus Kid(s) fighter never amounted to anything.

Anyways, for those to lazy to click the link to read the article, here's the 4Chan post itself:

Quote from: clearly Sakurai himself posting on 4Chan to troll us all

OK Kiddies, see if you can figure this one out.

July: The characters “King” and “Ponytail” will be revealed in a mini direct

August: The character “Old Man” will be revealed at years EVO

September: The character “Archer” will be revealed in a direct of some kind

October: The Characters “Warrior” & “Secretary” will be revealed in a Smash Ultimate focused Direct.

November: The character “Mech” will be revealed in a surprise character announcement

The other characters: The Characters “Rhythm” “Folklore” “Doll” and “Prime Ribs” won’t get reveal trailers until post release.


Agree this is probably false, but a fun chance for some guided theory crafting. I'll try to guess some that have not been mentioned yet.


King = King of Red Lions/King Rhoam, his final smash could be turning into boat form and flooding the competition before bombing them to oblivion.

Ponytail = Shantae

Old Man = Old Man from Legend of Zelda or Cranky Kong. I would love Cranky Kong because he could use that cane-pogo move similar to Scrooge from the Ducktales game.

Archer = Another Zelda in the style of BotW. I think there is a reason they altered the main Zelda to look like her form in the last handheld title. Maybe give her some powers to control Sheika tech via the Sheika Slate

Warrior = Eldegard, the new female character from Fire Emblem Three Houses. She wields an axe, allowing her to diversify the weapon-wielding characters in the game, and better justify yet another FE character in the roster.

Secretary = I got nothing, so I'll join the AC bandwagon, though she should summon other animals as her attacks instead of fighting directly.

Mech = Ray 01 from Custom Robo, or more realistically, a primary mech from Daemon x Machina; can't think of anything different.

Rhythm = Elite Beat Agents, coinciding with a new game for that series on Switch


Folklore = I would guess a Final Fantasy character because Fantasy=Folklore, but we already have Cloud. I'll got with Dillon since he could have a unique moveset and a Western is another type of folklore. Okay, that's a stretch, so I'll go with Okami since it is directly influenced by Japanese folklore.

Doll = Again, I'm out of different ideas, so count me in the Geno camp.

Prime Ribs = Monster Hunter Prowler Cat character since a signature move of those games is eating a large prime rib to boost stamina.

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 08, 2018, 02:00:36 PM
Warrior is getting Simon Belmont guesses but I'm dismissing that with Snake already representing Konami. If any third party is getting a second character in Smash, I'm sure it would be Sega who has all manner of other Sonic characters that could be included along with other franchises like Super Monkey Ball, Nights, Shenmue, Phantasy Star Online, Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon or Toe Jam and Earl just to name some of the crazy and interesting possibilities from them.

You do realize that Capcom already has 2 characters in the game right?  I know some people like to think of Mega Man as a Nintendo character but he's fully owned by Capcom along with Ryu.

So there's nothing stopping other third parties from getting more then one character in the game as well.  Looking at all the money Bloodstained got for it's Kickstarter, I wouldn't be surprised if Castlevania fans flooded the last Smash Bros ballet pretty good like the Ridley fans did.  They are a very dedicated fanbase and hardcore fanbase so I could easily see someone like Simon being in the top 10 list when all the votes were counted.

Right now we have, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, Street Fighter, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy represented in Smash Bros.  With Bomberman also being represented as an Assist Trophy, Castlevania is the last most iconic third party franchise left from the classic gaming era with no representation in Smash Bros.  With Castlevania being more popular then Bomberman and it's characters easier to create movesets for, I have no problem betting all my money on a Castlevania character getting in the next Smash Bros, with Simon more then likely being that character because he's easily been the most requested over the last decade.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: ShyGuy on July 08, 2018, 02:10:04 PM
Nintendo and Microsoft will continue the lovefest and we will have Minecraft Steve, Banjo Kazooie, and Master Chief.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 08, 2018, 03:40:06 PM
I could absolutely see Minecraft Steve in the game. It'd be pretty easy to come up with a move set based on the various tools.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on July 08, 2018, 06:29:19 PM
Cranky Kong being the original Donkey Kong deserves a spot over K. Rool (seriously, biggest waste of a slot I've ever heard of in my entire life, why him when you could have CROC?) and even Dixie, who I could see as an Echo Fighter, but that's all.

As for everything else?

No.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on July 08, 2018, 07:48:43 PM
Warrior is getting Simon Belmont guesses but I'm dismissing that with Snake already representing Konami. If any third party is getting a second character in Smash, I'm sure it would be Sega who has all manner of other Sonic characters that could be included along with other franchises like Super Monkey Ball, Nights, Shenmue, Phantasy Star Online, Jet Set Radio, Panzer Dragoon or Toe Jam and Earl just to name some of the crazy and interesting possibilities from them.

You do realize that Capcom already has 2 characters in the game right?  I know some people like to think of Mega Man as a Nintendo character but he's fully owned by Capcom along with Ryu.

So there's nothing stopping other third parties from getting more then one character in the game as well.  Looking at all the money Bloodstained got for it's Kickstarter, I wouldn't be surprised if Castlevania fans flooded the last Smash Bros ballet pretty good like the Ridley fans did.  They are a very dedicated fanbase and hardcore fanbase so I could easily see someone like Simon being in the top 10 list when all the votes were counted.

Right now we have, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Sonic, Street Fighter, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy represented in Smash Bros.  With Bomberman also being represented as an Assist Trophy, Castlevania is the last most iconic third party franchise left from the classic gaming era with no representation in Smash Bros.  With Castlevania being more popular then Bomberman and it's characters easier to create movesets for, I have no problem betting all my money on a Castlevania character getting in the next Smash Bros, with Simon more then likely being that character because he's easily been the most requested over the last decade.

I didn't forget about Mega Man. I forgot about Ryu! That does change things. Well, now, maybe Mr. Belmont does have a chance after all.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 08, 2018, 09:04:01 PM
I'm gonna go out on a huge limb here and say that they'll have another trailer with some characters, and you see what appears to be the Hookshot, but then you hear "GET OVER HERE!" and it's Scorpion from Mortal Kombat...and then they also announce MK Arcade Kollection for the eShop, only this time including MK4.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2018, 11:05:03 PM
Not sure about Isabelle being an Echo for Villager.  The Direct showed 8 versions of the Villager, so unless Echo characters are getting separate slots, I think the rumor suggests Isabelle being a stand alone character.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 09, 2018, 12:37:24 AM
Not sure about Isabelle being an Echo for Villager.  The Direct showed 8 versions of the Villager, so unless Echo characters are getting separate slots, I think the rumor suggests Isabelle being a stand alone character.

Echo fighters do have separate slots though.  They might share the same moveset but the different stats do make them different characters.  Hence why they have their own character pages on the official website while the different costume characters like Alph and the Koopalings don't.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: pokepal148 on July 09, 2018, 01:43:33 AM
I could absolutely see Minecraft Steve in the game. It'd be pretty easy to come up with a move set based on the various tools.
He could also be kind of interesting to play as if they incorporate the idea of placing certain blocks to have different effects on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 09, 2018, 08:50:56 PM
Not sure about Isabelle being an Echo for Villager.  The Direct showed 8 versions of the Villager, so unless Echo characters are getting separate slots, I think the rumor suggests Isabelle being a stand alone character.

Echo fighters do have separate slots though.  They might share the same moveset but the different stats do make them different characters.  Hence why they have their own character pages on the official website while the different costume characters like Alph and the Koopalings don't.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/fighter/index.html

Oh, ok.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on July 09, 2018, 08:51:33 PM
On the subject of character inclusion, I wanted to go back to this post by Caterkiller that I had looked up after the E3 Direct and dissect it a bit more.

My ideal roster. All I really need is Dixie and Ridley to be satisfied for all eternity but it's always nice to dream!
(https://i.imgur.com/mGyphsL.png)

As for the multi-characters Pokemon Trainer and Rick/Coo/Kine I'd like the Trainer to act as he did in Brawl but with the option to choose any of the 3 solo. For Kirby's buddies I want Rick as the "main" guy but different attacks or abilities have you randomly transform or team up with the other two. Take a look at Kirby Star Allies for the exact idea.


That's a nice 80 character roster that won't be accurate. Let's dismiss the Smash alum that we now know are all going to be in and the couple new additions revealed already and focus on the rest.

K. Rool / Dixie Kong - It's starting to feel like the calls for their inclusion are getting much more vocal from Smash 4 to now and they are starting to have an almost inevitable feeling of inclusion. Almost. It's hard to say how much Nintendo values K. Rool. He's made a few appearances in things since Rare's split like King of Swing/Mario Baseball yet Retro has left him and the Kremling crew out of the new DKC games they've made. Dixie has had more of a presence but I'll reiterate that aside from swinging her ponytail and cartwheeling what other moves are people expecting her to bring to the fight?


I also fully expect every alumni player possible to return, because that should be a priority. Wolf, Snake, and Ice Climbers need to be in.


Nice write up on all those characters! Now that we know Sakurai's first design document came about December 2015 I think a few characters like Spring Man, Rex and Pyra are out. At least until DLC.


I expect about 10 total characters with maybe 3 of them as echoes for the base roster. I know people keep telling me not to expect so many but man that is still a pretty small number relative to other smash titles and Sakurai is always going to Sakurai.


Inkling, Ridley, Simon, K Rool and/or Dixie(if one the other might be DLC), Pokemon, Rhythm character and Elma. Elma because Sakurai tweeted a long time ago he bought one of those toys again for a reference and with that gun and mech I can only think of a Xenoblade character like her with a Skell. Echoes might include Shadow, Funky Kong and Medusa, don't really know. I have a hard time seeing Dixie as an echo only because the entire point of her existence was to differentiate her from Dixie and her design just screams for her to be unique.


Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 09, 2018, 10:42:13 PM
Maybe Dixie and Tails are coming and one will be an echo fighter of the other, since they both have appendages that twirl around for floating/flying purposes.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 10, 2018, 09:24:46 PM
Maybe Dixie and Tails are coming and one will be an echo fighter of the other, since they both have appendages that twirl around for floating/flying purposes.

That wouldn't work though.  Echo fighters are characters that take the existing model of one character, and reskin it and just add some tweaks to existing attacks.  Dixie ponytail is on her head while Tails tails are on his butt which would make it impossible to just reskin one into the other.

This is why Dixie won't be a Diddy Echo fighter either like I see many on the internet think since Diddy doesn't have a ponytail or anything on his head that can be easily reskinned into ponytail related attacks.  Dixie will have to at least be a Luigi type character like Lucas and Wolf were that might be based off another but still have quite a few unique attacks.

This is the game where Ganondorf finally uses a sword in some of his attacks and Wario was given his shoulder charge again after it was stupidly removed for 3DS/Wii U.  If Sakurai is trying to make other characters more accurate to their official counterparts, I don't see Dixie being playable if she doesn't have several attacks that use her most defining feature.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 10, 2018, 10:00:51 PM
I had an interesting idea for what "mech" could be: Chibi Robo.  I can picture a tiny Chibi Robo that pilots a much larger version, since he has the inverse problem of uh. . .actually he has the totally unique problem of not being the right size for Smash Bros.  And this would be an adorable way of fixing that problem.  Just a tiny Chibi Robo inside a relatively giant Chibi Robo that looks exactly the same as the small one.

Still, 11 new characters when Sakura told us not to expect too many is a lot.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 10, 2018, 11:40:27 PM
Marth and Lucina aren't copy models, they are just similarly designed. I presumed similar move sets were what defined echo fighters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on July 11, 2018, 12:10:13 AM
I figure only Sakurai knows what defines an Echo fighter. I’m having a hard time coming up with a consistent set of rules. Dr. Mario isn’t an Echo of Mario for whatever reason. Sure, he has a different move (no F.L.U.D.D.). Then again, Dark Pit has a different move and he is an Echo fighter so *shrug*

Ultimately, this is up to the whims of Sakurai which works for me. It’s best not to think about it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on July 11, 2018, 01:03:34 AM
Oh, for pete's sake.

LET'S DO THE THING:
Echo Fighters are characters whose hurtboxes are exactly the same as the character they are based off of. They also have the same attack animations with minor exceptions. They can possess different weights, attack power and properties, and literal model differences, but they are for the most part exact copies of another fighter. Another important detail is that an Echo Fighter is a UNIQUE character.

Fox/Falco: At the time of their first appearance, Falco was a CLONE AND AN ECHO FIGHTER, as he possessed all of the same animations and model size as Fox, had a slower running speed and faster fall speed, as well as a higher jump. Now that Falco's jab animation, forward smash, neutral aerial, forward aerial, and down special have been substantially changed giving them drastically different animations and hitboxes, he is NO LONGER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Captain Falcon/Ganondorf: At the time of their first appearance, Ganondorf was a CLONE AND NOT AN ECHO FIGHTER, as he was a resized Captain Falcon model. Over time, his model and animations have continued to change, and with Smash Ultimate, he has been given entirely new smash attacks atop his very different smash special animation. Ganondorf was NEVER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Link/Young Link: At the time of their first appearance, Young Link was a CLONE AND NOT AN ECHO FIGHTER as he was a resized Link model. In Smash Ultimate, he is neither an Echo Fighter to Link nor Toon Link, as his model is a different size, and his moveset matches Toon Link, but not Smash Ultimate Link. Young Link was NEVER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Marth/Roy: At the time of their first appearance, Roy was a CLONE AND AN ECHO FIGHTER, as he possessed all of the same animations as Marth, had a slower running speed and faster fall speed, along with fire properties and a different "tipping" mechanic. Now that Roy's jab attack, forward tilt, forward smash, forward and backward aerials, and counter animations have been substantially changed giving them drastically different animations and hitboxes, he is NO LONGER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Pikachu/Pichu: At the time of their first appearance, Pichu was a CLONE AND NOT AN ECHO FIGHTER, as he is a resized Pikachu model. Because of this size difference, Pichu was NEVER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Mario/Dr. Mario: At the time of their first appearance, Dr. Mario was a CLONE AND AN ECHO FIGHTER, as he shared a moveset and model size with Mario despite having different attack and weight properties. Now that he has a different down special and down aerial, Dr. Mario is NO LONGER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Ness/Lucas: This is a stupid comparison, as Ness and Lucas have very different attack animations and properties despite being similarly sized. Lucas WAS NEVER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Marth/Lucina: Lucina possesses all of Marth's attack animations with one exception, being her down aerial having a different sweeping animation that goes from back to front rather than front to back. The only substantial difference between the two is Lucina's lack of "tipping." This means SHE IS AN ECHO FIGHTER
Mewtwo/Lucario: This is an even dumber comparison, as these characters share a similar neutral special attack and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE. Lucario WAS NEVER AN ECHO FIGHTER
Pit/Dark Pit: Dark Pit possesses all of Pit's attack animations, and his Electroshock Arm is an aesthetic alteration with different attack properties. This means HE IS AN ECHO FIGHTER
Peach/Daisy: Daisy possessed all of Peach's attack animations, with one apparent exception, being her up aerial, which Peach might also have. Her attack properties may be different, as well. This means SHE IS AN ECHO FIGHTER

Based on this, Echo Fighters must share a similar model size and have extremely minimal animation changes, while still possessing the same moveset at the original fighter with tweaked attack attributes. The best comparison I can think of is putting a Shadow the Hedgehog skin on Sonic, making him more slippery than the former, and making all of Sonic's blue attacks yellow.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on July 11, 2018, 01:57:51 AM
So, like, Sakurai could nix this whole Echo fighter confusion by literally changing like one or two moves per Echo fighter? I’m basing this off your explanation of Mario/Dr. Mario. I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong. It just seems like a really low bar but a bar nonetheless. Going all the way back to Melee, this made no sense to me. He’s the same guy with a lab coat, pretending to be a licensed physician. Why does he have different attributes? Yet he does; all the characters do. With that in mind, the whole Echo fighter dealie just seems needlessly complicated when the alternative would have been:

Us: Those characters are clones.
Sakurai: No. I changed the weight, knockback etc.
Us: But the moves are all the sa-
Sakurai: I changed some.
Us: But...
Sakurai: 🤷🏻‍♂️
Us:*buys game either way*
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: MagicCow64 on July 11, 2018, 08:11:58 PM
I noodled before about condensing the roster a bit by putting these echo-type clones into a sort of costume status where they'd be nested in one slot, but that doesn't appear to be the case here, which makes the distinction all the more functionally arbitrary.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 11, 2018, 11:58:44 PM
Echo Fighter is basically a politically correct term for Melee style clones that Sakurai made up in hopes people wont lose their **** like they did when Dark Pit was revealed last time.  He's hoping that by creating the term Echo, people should realize that these characters were easier to make and didn't take away resources from more unique characters being created. 


https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/ (https://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-the-clone-characters-in-smash-bros-wii-u3ds/)

Quote
There are 3 fighters [Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doctor Mario] that are alternate models (clones) in the game. Each was originally a color variation, but during development, they were given balanced characteristics. Since their functionality had differences, forms were separated from each other. However, it was vital that this didn’t increase the required man-hours. Some relative tuning was sufficient as it wasn’t necessary to create balancing from scratch.

Yeah we can argue over Dr. Mario blending the line but for the most part, Echo fighters will be characters that don't require radical change from the ground up to create and balance.  As he says, they're free characters that they were able to add during development without messing up the schedule.

As he also said

Quote
This is like a free dessert after a luxurious meal that was prepared free of charge. In a restaurant with this type of service, I don’t think there’s anybody who would say, “Change this to a meat dish!!”

Yet, I’m told [to do that] about Smash Bros. But, I guess since a lot of them are children, it cannot be helped.

I imagine because of the huge roster we probably won't get as many unique character as Brawl and For so we'll get a lot more clones to try and pad out the newcomer list.  This is just Sakurai's way of trying to calm some of the upcoming shitstorm when the final roster is revealed.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on July 12, 2018, 08:21:18 AM
This is just Sakurai's way of trying to calm some of the upcoming shitstorm when the final roster is revealed.
If some people can’t get behind “Everyone is Here!” there’s no pleasing them anyway. Trying to get ahead of people with that mindset is a fool’s errand. Drawing attention to it is really not helping Sakurai’s cause. The path of least resistance would have been to just not mention it. Change a move or two then really play up the “Everyone is Here!” aspect of the game. Ultimate, to me at least, feels like a greatest hits of the series.

Then again, I’m pretty easy to please. Lucina was my go-to in Wii U/3DS; I have no business complaining about Echo fighters. Sakurai even gifted me Daisy so no complaints here. In Melee, especially without the knowledge that the development cycle was like 13 months, padding the roster with “clones” felt cheap. I was also 17 year old at the time. As the roster grew, particularly with Wii U/3DS, it was easy to accept these quicker turnaround fighters.

I get it. Everyone has a favorite who’s still missing in action. Without delving into lists, I feel like villains and female characters are underrepresented.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2018, 01:12:18 PM
And Waluigi.  Waluigi is underrepresented.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: that Baby guy on July 12, 2018, 09:26:55 PM
And Waluigi.  Waluigi is underrepresented.

Who?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 12, 2018, 10:17:36 PM
And Waluigi.  Waluigi is underrepresented.

Who?

See? That right there is the problem.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 12, 2018, 11:11:52 PM
I like that we've been getting one new music sample every week since E3.  As a huge Mega Man fan I really loved the most recent update and can't wait to hear the full version in the final game.  The Mega Man remixes were amazing in 3DS/Wii U but only covered the first 3 games so it's nice to see we're going beyond that in this one.

Remixes by none other then famous Sonic composer Jun Senoue as well.  With Senoue on board hopefully this means we'll get some new Sonic remixes as well since Sega is pretty controlling with Sonic music and usually only allows their own composers to do any remixes.  This is why we've only had one Sonic song remixed in Smash Bros with Angel Island in Brawl which was also done by Senoue.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 13, 2018, 01:34:05 AM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/381/994/ae8.png)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on July 14, 2018, 03:38:50 PM
I like that we've been getting one new music sample every week since E3.  As a huge Mega Man fan I really loved the most recent update and can't wait to hear the full version in the final game.  The Mega Man remixes were amazing in 3DS/Wii U but only covered the first 3 games so it's nice to see we're going beyond that in this one.

Remixes by none other then famous Sonic composer Jun Senoue as well.  With Senoue on board hopefully this means we'll get some new Sonic remixes as well since Sega is pretty controlling with Sonic music and usually only allows their own composers to do any remixes.  This is why we've only had one Sonic song remixed in Smash Bros with Angel Island in Brawl which was also done by Senoue.


Ohhh... I knew Sega was very controlling about what gets to be done with Sonic and the music but I wasn't aware that they only allow their own composers to do remixes. If this is true I expect at least 1 more new classic arrangement from Sonic!


First Sega wanted Sonic in Smash, then they didn't, then they did. Notice how Sonic doesn't show up in the newcomer videos either? Or how he only showed up as a 2D sprite in a couple official character artworks.


I'd like to talk with a Sega rep about all this.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 14, 2018, 03:40:52 PM
Quote from: Nintendo Life
Are there plans to either announce characters between now and December or is the finalized, complete roster?  Can we expect to see more at a later date?
Trinen: We can answer that when we get closer to December.
Link (https://gonintendo.com/stories/313632-nintendo-says-more-smash-bros-ultimate-roster-info-coming-close)
Pretty vague answer on when we can expect more character announcements, but I think it points to the timeline from the rumor being untrue.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 14, 2018, 11:25:15 PM
Rumor has it we are getting something this weekend. Supposedly Nintendo uploaded a private video on YouTube and the description was Smash related. We may be seeing the reveal of "King" and "Ponytail" tomorrow.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on July 16, 2018, 06:28:42 PM
I wouldn't trust a 4chan rumor as far as I could throw it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on July 17, 2018, 12:23:51 AM
So IMDB of all places has "leaked" that the Chorus Kids from Rhythm Heaven (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/07/rumour_imdb_lists_rhythm_heavens_the_chorus_kids_for_super_smash_bros_ultimate) are coming to Smash...Can't anyone edit those entries to say anything? While it would confirm an old Smash 4 rumor as a cut character returning, I still don't buy it. Only way this happens is if it truly was a planned character but was cut last minute and is already mostly complete. Just feels like hundreds of other characters are more deserving of a spot and would be much better gag characters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 17, 2018, 12:42:43 PM
It doesn't make sense to me that a character would've been worked on and then cut from Smash 4, since the DLC characters were worked on after release.  But I guess there could be some valid ones.

I think the IMDb listing got updated to remove that listing, but there were some assist trophies and Pokeball Pokemon on there too, so this might have an extra grain of salt.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 17, 2018, 03:28:38 PM
We know from the old Gematsu leaks that Chorus Kids along with Chrom were originally planned for 3DS/Wii U.  In Chrom's case Sakurai even admitted it but changed his minds after realizing that Robin had much better potential for a unique moveset.  He hasn't acknowledged the Chorus Kids though so we don't know the situation on what got them cut.

If the Chorus Kids were going to be like the Ice Climbers then I could see why they got cut because of the 3DS limitations.  If that's the case then I could easily see them being brought back if Sakurai already had a moveset designed but had to scrap because of technical reason the Switch wont suffer from.  If they were cut because Sakurai was having a hard time creating a decent moveset then I'd imagine they'll stay gone and at best become an Assist Trophy this time.

Rhythm Heaven is a very popular franchise in Japan and at least has some niche status in the West so it's not hard to imagine a character from that series getting into Smash Bros.  The sale of it's last few games have been better then several other series that are already represented in Smash Bros.  Of course I see a lot of list on the internet thinking Chorus Kids are guaranteed which is jumping the gun to me but at the same time I wouldn't 100% count them out either.  Unless we know the exact reason they got cut, it's hard to clearly say one way or another how likely they are to be in this game.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Discord.RSS on July 17, 2018, 06:59:11 PM
Haha that's the type of nice curveballs I expect from Sakurai! Next up, Mona from WarioWare?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on July 17, 2018, 07:21:13 PM
Haha that's the type of nice curveballs I expect from Sakurai! Next up, Mona from WarioWare?
Ah, gawd, yes, please.

I wouldn’t even care if she was an Echo of Wario. What? Girls can fart.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on July 17, 2018, 08:18:22 PM
Well, she has that red scooter to mimic Wario's motorcycle. . .
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on July 22, 2018, 10:41:44 AM

My post from Resetera.

Ok sorry for the ultra late update. I just wanted to be a little cautious even though everything I'm about to mention is more or less known or could be inferred by everything we've already learned about Smash development. This was not an interview, I'm not apart of any gaming organization or anything of the sort. It was just 2 Nintendo fans chatting it up and everything I'm about to mention is super simplified from our half hour conversation. 


So today at the San Diego Comicon I ran into Nintendo Treehouse's JC. Super duper nice guy. You can tell he loves working at Nintendo and is absolutely proud of it. One of the first things I did was tell him to thank Sakurai for Ridley. I mentioned how I am married with children, I mentioned my profession and that I was well adjusted mentally(allegedly). I told him I waited 17 years for Ridley to be playable and I cried real tears of joy during the direct. I showed him the video I posted last month and he sure got a kick out of it. He more or less told me those are the types of reactions he and Sakurai loves from the fans and thats when we got into Ridley discussion.

- The Treehouse folks have been very aware of the constant Ridley debates for years. How could they not right?
- Treehouse tentacles are all over the net.
- Naturally Sakurai gets feedback from Treehouse and wonders who would be a big deal.
- Apparently a lot of characters are discussed but even the treehouse guys don't know who ultimately gets picked.
- Ridley is brought up as the big deal but over in Japan it's hard for Sakurai and the team to understand, he wants to know why.
[/size]- People aren't talking about Ridley and Metroid over there like we do.
[/size]- Metroid doesn't sell so well out there and even over here in the west it doesn't exactly light up the sales charts.
[/size]- It gets explained that Metroid carries a prestige with it and the fans who love it they really love it. -There were other talks about Sakurai's comments regarding Ridley after Smash 4 released, like the too big stuff but I don't really remember.
- Sakurai in the Direct basically said he hopes we don't expect too many newcomers this time around. I'm not quoting JC but man when I heard him say it the way he said it in his own words there was some clear cut weight to the statement. [/font]
- Balancing all 60+ characters is very difficult and it takes a ton of work. Thats a big reason why there will probably be less newcomers than we are used to.[/font]
- Getting everyone back was a huge priority. [/font]

You look at my posts since the Direct I didn't really believe Sakurai and have been thinking 10 total including 2 or 3 echos. Now I'm taking Sakurai's words seriously. I'm just assuming all of this of course. [/font]

We didn't discuss the possibility of DLC at all but after that exchange my personal guess is the majority of our newcomers will come from DLC. [/font]

- We talked about what it was like working for Nintendo and that there are certain people who just fit right in with the Nintendo work place culture. [/font]
- Nintendo is extremely small compared to other developers.[/font]
- Iwata was very familiar with all of those Treehouse guys and his passing was difficult for everyone. Not just guys sitting at the very top.[/font]
- I told him Dixie is my final request. [/font]

Let me think of what else we talked about. The topics of newcomers and Ridley stood out the most by far. Sorry if you expected some major news revelation.



(https://i.imgur.com/lyNK2gN.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 12:01:10 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/95i99m/for_some_reason_the_galaga_remix_from_the_smash/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/95i99m/for_some_reason_the_galaga_remix_from_the_smash/)

Get ready for Simon.

Hmmm, I wonder if the leak around E3 was true then.  It had Ridley and Simon, plus every character from Wii U returning along with Ice Climbers and Snake.  So there actually might be a Castlevania collection coming as well.  Hey maybe it might be revealed after tomorrows Direct as well.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 12:08:30 AM
If Simon Belmont is a newcomer in Ultimate (Assist Trophy doesn’t count) and Konami releases a Castlevania Collection without any weird part-download nonsense, I’d be willing to amend #fuckKonami to #fuckKonamibutatleastbuythemdinnerfirst
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: broodwars on August 08, 2018, 12:14:38 AM
Simon Belmont would pretty much complete my list of iconic 3rd party characters you could realistically see in a Smash Bros. game. I mentioned this on Twitter, but I'd love it if his Final Smash was like MegaMan's or (IIRC) Shulk's, where he summons all the Belmonts together in one big attack.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 12:22:11 AM
Holy Cross is the obvious choice, but I doubt Nintendo wants a bunch of crucifixes swirling around in one of its top multiplayer games.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 01:03:35 AM
I cant wait to see what the music selection is going to be for the stage.  The leak already shows Bloody Tears and you know Vampire Killer will get in.  Hopefully it'll get a wider variety that covers the whole series like Metal Gear had in Brawl and not limited to just the early games like Mega Man in 3DS/Wii U. 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 10:01:36 AM
There he is. Simon lashes out.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 10:05:30 AM
34 tracks in Dracula's Castle?! Jebus...

More than 800 total...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 10:32:57 AM
I can’t even wrap my mind around everything.

-Simon AND Richter
-Dracula’s Castle looks aaaaaammmmaaaaazing
-Stage Hazard toggle
-That K. Rool troll then actual K. Rool
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: broodwars on August 08, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
At work so I couldn't watch the Direct, but did they announce any SP content beyond Classic mode? In a game marked "Ultimate", I'd have liked to see at least Adventure Mode return.


That said, they gave me all of the stages & some fantastic new characters in Simon Belmont, King K. Room, and Shovel Knight (and Dark Samus is here for...some reason). Overall, I'm quite happy with what's here.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
There’s a censored out mode. May be Adventure Mode or Smash Run.

Sakurai mentioned bosses, but he could have been referring to a stage boss instead of Adventure Mode. Either way, looks like there's at least a Monster Hunter stage that didn’t get an official announcement unless I blinked and missed it.

I’m disappointed Dark Samus is an Echo fighter. Doesn’t make sense, but whatever something something Simon something.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 10:41:54 AM
34 tracks in Dracula's Castle?! Jebus...

Well it looks like Sakurai saw my post last night. :cool;
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 08, 2018, 10:54:22 AM
The secret condition that Dracula will appear under is that he will only appear every 100 years.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: broodwars on August 08, 2018, 10:58:31 AM
The secret condition that Dracula will appear under is that he will only appear every 100 years.

My bet's on a variation of the Konami Code.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: lolmonade on August 08, 2018, 11:57:53 AM
The secret condition that Dracula will appear under is that he will only appear every 100 years.

My bet's on a variation of the Konami Code.


That's a neat idea, I hope you're right.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on August 08, 2018, 01:35:17 PM
Quote from: clearly Sakurai himself posting on 4Chan to troll us all

OK Kiddies, see if you can figure this one out.

July: The characters “King” and “Ponytail” will be revealed in a mini direct

August: The character “Old Man” will be revealed at years EVO

September: The character “Archer” will be revealed in a direct of some kind

October: The Characters “Warrior” & “Secretary” will be revealed in a Smash Ultimate focused Direct.

November: The character “Mech” will be revealed in a surprise character announcement

The other characters: The Characters “Rhythm” “Folklore” “Doll” and “Prime Ribs” won’t get reveal trailers until post release.



So...


King = K Rool
Ponytail = Belmonts ('whip' their hair back and forth?)


Though I think this has been debunked now, as Sakurai confirmed all character will be revealed before the game releases.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 01:47:45 PM
It's so funny how after E3 so many people where bitching about how the roster that was shown was going to be it, even though Sakurai said there were still more characters to appear.  Now we just got 5 revealed in this Direct alone and he even says there's still more on the way.  So people only had to wait 2 months before more characters would be revealed but that was too much for some.  I love it when the haters get proven wrong so spectacularly like Sakurai did today.

So with Richter as an Echo I think it's safe to assume Ken is probably in.  With Konami having 3 reps, there's nothing limiting other third parties from getting that many and with Ken being very popular and Sakurai a huge Street Fighter 2 fan (seriously, if you read interviews with Sakurai he spent a lot of time in the arcades playing that game in the early 90's and was almost obsessed with it) I'm having a hard time seeing how he doesn't get in.

Also the interesting thing about Chrom is even though he's listed as a Roy Echo, he has Ike's Up-B.  So that certainly makes the prospect of some Echo fighters interesting if they might borrow moves from other characters that there base doesn't have.

Also when looking at the website Fighter page, we're at 67 unique characters right now since the Echo's are lumped with the character they're based off of.  So we should at the very least get 3 more unique fighters so the website will at least have a character count that goes up to 70.  Plus when you combine all the current unique and Echo fighters together, we have 73 characters.  So if we get 3 more unique fighters and 4 more Echo's, that will give us 70 unique characters and 80 total characters.

Damn this game is just insane.  We have a realistic chance at 80 character or more and over 100 stages with over 800 different songs (with 34 of them Castlevania, Holy ****).  Even the craziest Gamefaqs and Smash Boards dream rosters from a decade ago could have never predicted all of this.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on August 08, 2018, 01:52:06 PM
Chrom is a composite through-and-through.


Found a breakdown of his moves on r/FireEmblem


Quote from: Seven link="https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/95mctr/chrom_is_a_fighter_in_super_smash_bros_ultimate/e3trndv"
Alright since there seems to be a lot of confusion in his trailer he has:


Marth/Roy dash


Marth Nair


Roy Ftilt


Marth dthrow


Ike Up special


Roy up smash (Not sure on this one)


Roy Fair


Marth side special


Roy neutral special


Definitely a mash up.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 02:03:52 PM
Neither Belmont has a ponytail...

I’m still holding out for Ayami Kojima redesign-inspired costumes for Simon and Richter. Alucard’s Assist trophy model uses Kojima’s design.

Also, super-excited about the Final Smash meter. It’s like Sakurai and his team just lurked forums for the last couple years and made a game out of it.

It's so funny how after E3 so many people where bitching about how the roster that was shown was going to be it, even though Sakurai said there were still more characters to appear.
Ew, no. Who are these people?

I would have been happy with a near-straight port.

Sakurai: Here’s Daisy.
Me: Well, I guess I’ll shut the **** up now.

Literally every time he shows something new, I feel like he has every right to become this meme:
(https://i.imgur.com/qgBZBWA.png)

Then, he just reveals more stuff no thought would be in the game.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on August 08, 2018, 02:39:36 PM
Neither Belmont has a ponytail...


I was suggesting the ponytail was the whip (like the song where "I Whip my hair back and forth")

But, yeah, I was grasping at straws with that one.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
It's so funny how after E3 so many people where bitching about how the roster that was shown was going to be it, even though Sakurai said there were still more characters to appear.
Ew, no. Who are these people?

You've already forgotten how some reactions across the web where after E3?  You were even annoyed at the situation back then.

Is it asking too much that people wait six months or probably fewer with leaks to find out if this is the final roster? Of course it is. I should expect less, not more from the internet.

I mean, people thought they would show almost everything about the game 6 months in advance?  It was stupid for people to be getting angry about it back then and you even agreed.  After today I hope those complaints will finally be dead since we get 5 newcomers in one day and we have 4 more months to go with Sakurai outright saying in today's Direct there's more characters left to show.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 04:57:39 PM
Nah, I haven’t forgotten. You misunderstood. “Ew, no. Who are these people?” was rhetorical, as in I can’t believe there are this many people who can still be displeased with what has been announced thus far. As I said above, Sakurai just keeps showing us more things we never thought would be in the game. I was already happy with less yet I keep getting more so I just can’t get behind these people who are still complaining.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 08, 2018, 05:18:13 PM
Alright. Let's talk stages. I'm sure it's already been covered elsewhere but I'll do a breakdown of what has been revealed.

There are currently 103 stages yet the picture of Stage Select shows that there is a possibility of another 6 that could still be added based on the black gap on the bottom row.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/216416163809198081/476775173622595594/unknown.png)

What are all the returning stages? Well, let's break it down.


Super Smash Bros 64 (7/9)


Returning

Peach's Castle
Kongo Jungle
Hyrule Castle
Yoshi's Island (now called Super Happy Tree)
Dream Land
Saffron City
Mushroom Kingdom


Did Not Make The Cut

Planet Zebes
Sector Z



Super Smash Bros Melee (21/26)

Returning

Battlefield (Technically not the same stage but same layout. 1st time introduced.)
Final Destination (Technically not the same stage but same layout. 1st time introduced.)
Princess Peach's Castle
Rainbow Cruise
Kongo Jungle (now called Kongo Falls)
Jungle Japes
Great Bay
Temple
Brinstar
Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Green Greens
Corneria
Venom
Pokémon Stadium
Onett
Mushroom Kingdom II
Brinstar Depths
Big Blue
Fourside


Did Not Make The Cut

Mushroom Kingdom
Poké Floats
Mute City
Icicle Mountain
Flat Zone



Super Smash Bros. Brawl (26/29)


Returning

Delfino Plaza
Mushroomy Kingdom
Mario Circuit (now called Figure-8 Circuit)
WarioWare, Inc.
Bridge of Eldin
Norfair
Frigate Orpheon
Yoshi's Island
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Pokémon Stadium 2
Port Town Aero Dive
Castle Siege
Distant Planet
Smashville
New Pork City
Summit
Skyworld
Shadow Moses Island
Luigi's Mansion
Pirate Ship
Spear Pillar
75 m
Mario Bros.
Hanenbow
Green Hill Zone


Did Not Make The Cut

Rumble Falls
Flat Zone 2
PictoChat



Super Smash Bros. 3DS Exclusive Stages (18/20)


Returning

3D Land
Golden Plains
Paper Mario
Gerudo Valley
Spirit Train
Dream Land GB
Unova Pokémon League
Prism Tower
Mute City SNES
Magicant
Arena Ferox
Reset Bomb Forest
Tortimer Island
Balloon Fight
Living Room
Find Mii
Tomodachi Life
PictoChat 2


Did Not Make The Cut

Rainbow Road
Pac-Maze



Super Smash Bros Wii U Exclusive Stages (19/24)


Returning

Big Battlefield
Mushroom Kingdom U
Mario Galaxy
Mario Circuit
Skyloft
The Great Cave Offensive
Kalos Pokémon League
Coliseum
Flat Zone X
Palutena's Temple

Gamer
Garden of Hope
Town and City
Wii Fit Studio
Wrecking Crew
Pilot Wings
Wuhu Island
Windy Hill Zone
Pac-Land



Did Not Make The Cut

Woolly World
Jungle Hijinxs
Pyrosphere
Orbital Gate Assault
Miiverse



Super Smash Bros. 3DS/Wii U Shared Stages (8/8)


Returning

Boxing Ring
Gaur Plains
Duck Hunt
Wily Castle
Super Mario Maker
Suzaku Castle
Midgar
Umbra Clock Tower



Super Smash Bros Ultimate Stages (4 so far)


New Donk City Hall
Great Plateau Tower
Moray Towers
Dracula's Castle


So, I expect that there will be more new stages to fill in that bottom gap. Much like how Sakurai has warned not to expect too many new fighters, I believe that same warning will apply to stages. Ten new stages is low compared to past entries but it is one more than the original game had and with all the returning and updated stages there is still a lot to play on.

Adding up the numbers, there have been 116 unique stages created so far over the various Smash games with the 4 new entries in Ultimate bringing that total to 120 at the moment. Of the 116 past entries, 17 did not make the cut. 5 of those are from Melee so it looks like Ultimate won't be able to replace it after all.  ;) ;D  In a lot of cases, the stages that didn't make the cut seem to have already had another stage similar to it appear in a later version that I guess is considered superior. The biggest surprise might be Flat Zone 2 from Brawl not making the cut since it returned in 3DS and is the only stage to return in another game that isn't appearing in Ultimate. Some of the stages are of the side-scrolling nature that a lot of people have often complained about. And in some cases, things have changed to make it hard to bring a stage back. MiiVerse is no more. Ridley is a fighter and different than his appearance as a stage hazard in Pyrosphere. I can't say I'm too heartbroken over most of the stages not returning but there's a couple I would have liked to have seen brought back. There's always a chance of DLC to complete things in the future, I suppose.


What are your thoughts on the stages that are in and out?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 05:38:17 PM
Does anyone even like Mushroomy Kingdom? It’s terrible and a complete missed opportunity. Why is it a desert? It should have been overrun with vines and giant mushrooms with forgotten Mario enemies and bosses showing up to attack you.

Disappointed Rainbow Road, Pac-Maze (especially since Pac-Land is so lame), and Jungle Hijinxs didn’t make the cut. I won’t miss the vertical scrolling stages. Otherwise, I could give or take the rest of the cut stages.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on August 08, 2018, 05:44:34 PM
Maybe we can get the rest via DLC?


I really want Pokefloats to return. That was a crazy fun stage.


Have a feeling the final two 64 stages will be in, just seems to much of a miss to leave them out.


I thought the premise of Mushroom Kingdom was a great concept and would like it back too (that was the scrolling stage through the first levels of the original SMB, right?)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 05:48:38 PM
I thought the premise of Mushroom Kingdom was a great concept and would like it back too (that was the scrolling stage through the first levels of the original SMB, right?)
Yeah, that’s the one. I could never get into it. I typically don’t like the scrolling stages. Mushroomy Kingdom wasn’t even fun to look at.

I hope there’s no DLC. Just let Ultimate be its own self-contained thing. Let Sakurai have a break. He’s been working on Super Smash Bros. for like six straight years.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Soren on August 08, 2018, 05:49:34 PM
Mushroomy Kingdom is bad. Also, do we really need Dream Land and Green Greens? Are both Yoshi's Island stages essential?

Rainbow Road is just Figure-8 Circuit which is just Mario Circuit and again do we really need all three of those?

I do agree that Pac Land is a terrible stage and maybe having Maze is better. It might be a little nitpicky but I'd rather not have so many echo stages.


Have a feeling the final two 64 stages will be in, just seems to much of a miss to leave them out.


Why though? Sector Z is just a worse version of Corneria and Zebes is the boring precursor to Brimstar.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Stratos on August 08, 2018, 05:51:43 PM
Good point. I suppose if they have been replaced by superior versions then there is no need for the old ones.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 05:56:49 PM
Rainbow Road was the most visually pleasing Mario Kart stage. It also exemplified the series more than the Mario Circuit stages so if I had to pick any of them, it’d be that one.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Soren on August 08, 2018, 05:58:49 PM
Rainbow Road was the most visually pleasing Mario Kart stage. It also exemplified the series more than the Mario Circuit stages so if I had to pick any of them, it’d be that one.


(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6lgpOdRXXu0/hqdefault.jpg)


Too bad.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 08, 2018, 06:02:58 PM
I'm with you on Mushroomy Kingdom. If they're tossing out other side-scrolling stages, I'm surprised Mushroomy Kingdom is still making the cut. I get that it returned in 3DS but so did Flat Zone 2 and it isn't coming back. I'm also in agreement about losing Rainbow Road and Pac-Maze from the 3DS. I'd toss out Mushroomy Kingdom and Pac-Land to put both of those in their place. I'd also replace Yoshi's Island Brawl with Woolly World Wii U. But we're talking about 3 stages here out of 99 so I'm sure I'll find a way to live through this disappointment. ;)  And I do have a soft spot for Poke Floats even if it is more about navigating the stage to survive than actually fighting but it is hard to actually engage in much fighting during it so I get the exclusion.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 08, 2018, 06:18:47 PM
Poké Floats was fun once in a while as the only decent version of the survive the level style stage. The vertical scrolling stages just weren’t fun, but Poké Floats could be for a lark.

If Sakurai doesn’t bring it back, I’d like his team to try again. Maybe Smash Floats where it cycles through a float of each fighter. Eight players could be fun on that.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 08, 2018, 06:20:43 PM
Rainbow Road is just Figure-8 Circuit which is just Mario Circuit and again do we really need all three of those?

Not quite. Rainbow Road stops at various parts of the course which result in different height levels and stage geography like Mario Circuit Wii U's stage. Figure-8 Circuit is a stationary stage that doesn't change but just had ShyGuys karting on by. Plus, Rainbow Road is a pretty iconic part of the Mario Kart series so having a Rainbow Road course is better than the non-existent Figure-8 circuit created for Smash Bros. Brawl. I'm guessing it was left out for two reasons. First is that is similar to how Mario Circuit works as it moves along the course of an actual track. Second is that it stops in one portion of the track that is a rotating cylinder so for that portion you are just basically trying to run along in the opposite direction and not get pulled off screen by the rotating tube.

In some ways, I'm surprised that Brawl had so many of its stages represented since I've come to feel it has a lot of the weaker / blander stages than any other game except maybe the original at this point. Why Smashville and Town and City? They're already quite similar and you've got Tortimor Island from the 3DS to help shake things up in AC stage representation. Isabella is probably getting included so maybe that's why Sakurai is going with all three. Or it is because they are simple enough stages that both are getting included.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2018, 06:50:22 PM
Even though Sakurai says there's 103 stages, what's to stop him from tweaking that number in the next Direct?  It might be like the early roster for Melee where Sakurai wanted us to think there was only 5 unlockable characters only to have an extra 6 more as well.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/4/4c/SSBM_starting_roster.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/640?cb=20161023014118)


I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to wants us to think there's only 6 stages left to reveal only to go beyond that in the next Direct.  Of course even if he doesn't I'm still very happy with the list.  Just getting most of the 3DS stages in HD is good enough for me.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on August 08, 2018, 07:39:46 PM
Perhaps they're saving some stages for DLC?

Of the ones not yet seen to be returning, I like Flat Zone best. That was always a fun and frantic stage back in Melee. For some reason I never liked 2 as much.

Does anyone even like Mushroomy Kingdom? It’s terrible and a complete missed opportunity.
I kinda liked the way it played, but it should have looked like 8-bit SMB1.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2018, 10:35:56 PM
103 stages is a lot.  The extra six slots look . . . enticing.  And I would totally believe that Sakurai would pull a double reverse, knowing that people would scour the 103 confirmed stages and assume no more new entrants (at least from previously unrepresented series since each character/series has a stage).  But I dunno.  There's so much content already! How much more can he add?!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on August 08, 2018, 10:46:10 PM
Hidden mode revealed? (https://twitter.com/noctulescent/status/1027204063811850240)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on August 09, 2018, 12:07:39 AM
I honestly don’t understand how someone could feel dissatisfaction with this game.

Even so, there are two things that are infinite...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Soren on August 09, 2018, 12:14:53 AM
Holy crap that was some shoddy pixelation work.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 01:14:45 AM
I posted this in Talkback but I'd rather continue the discussion here so I'll dump it here also in regards to single player content.


There's been an All-Star Mode in every game since Melee. Highly expect that to be present in this game so there is another single player mode that I really think will be in.

I'm sure there will be the usual Sandbag and timed enemy fights like 100-Man Melee or Cruel Melee. There will most likely be Event Mode and scenarios as well. Would like to see a return of Break the Targets.

I'd expect some kind of checklist of things to play to unlock for trophies or songs. Still, it doesn't seem like Sakurai is bothering to keep some stages unlockable unless some of the 17 stages from the past Smash games not shown so far are hidden in the game as extras to find. Same goes for characters. Not sure if any are going to be kept unplayable at first or not. From the way the game is being presented, it kind of feels like all stages and characters are going to be available at the start but maybe there will be a few kept as hidden features to unlock.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 01:15:19 AM
As far as single player goes, it's how I've mainly played Smash games and I've always enjoyed the challenge of acquiring all the trophies and unlocking all the secrets and other collectibles including playing through all the modes with each character. It's part of the reason why I liked Melee so much. A lot of characters and stages required some effort to unlock and gave motivation to keep playing through different modes and being surprised by their addition.

I wasn't a huge fan of Subspace Emissary compared to Adventure Mode in Melee although I did like playing through it to unlock some of the fighters and see their entrance videos that played with them. What I disliked about the mode is that Adventure Mode inspired this idea of interesting shared mash-up of all the Nintendo Franchises and characters together. I could be Pikachu or Kirby and yet I played through a bit of a Mario sidescroller attacking Goombas and Koopa Troopas like Pikachu or Kirby might in their games. I had to escape an exploding Brinstar like Samus hurrying to safety at the end of a Metroid game with a timer ticking down. I had to climb the Icicle Mountain stage for a bit dodging the Ice Climber enemies as if I was climbing a mountain in Ice Climbers before facing them "high up" the stage.


It was this interesting blending of getting a glimpse of Nintendo characters in other Nintendo Universes and I expected more like that in the future. What about a Donkey Kong Country of fighting some Kremlings? A Fire Emblem type map/level where you fight some other foes along the way to a goal and bring their HP down to 0? Play a Game & Watch game to reach a certain score to move on? There's a lot of interesting ideas I think are possible to blend these games altogether and sort of feel like an Adventure through Nintendo's franchises and worlds giving you a taste of them but with an interloper or out of place main character aside from when they visit their own franchise.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 01:16:42 AM
Subspace Emissary attempted to tell a story with bosses and cutscenes for you to play through as the characters all worked their way through the land to meet up at the final boss. I find it lacking, however, because you can't play Subspace Emissary all the way through as the same character. It's divided up and your switching characters or choosing from a few that are available for one part of the story before moving on to the next. So, it's not a cohesive complete journey like it is in Melee Adventure where the character you choose goes from Mushroom Kingdom to Bowser/Giga Bowser at Final Destination in the end.

Plus, Subspace is its own thing and universe with its own set of enemies and look. As such, it doesn't have that same sense of a Nintendo Mash-up like Adventure mode and Samus playing in a Zelda dungeon/cave beating up LikeLikes and Octoroks. The Subspace Emissary is foreign to all the Nintendo characters so Samus beating up the Subspace enemies doesn't feel silly, crazy, cool, what have you. It doesn't matter if it is Link or Mario beating up these enemies. They just aren't iconic of anything. Plus, the Subspace levels aren't really that interesting or highly creative. They're just simply things you move from one end to the other on beating up these enemies on the way. Adventure Mode had you running a lap on an F-Zero track of Big Blue while ducking for cover when the super face racers whizzed by as they zoomed along the track. The idea of hitting enemies with trophy stand bottoms to collect them is sort of like the Pokemon idea of capturing the monsters with pokeballs but it wasn't always that fun to pull off and was frustrating if you messed up and had to get some more trophy bottoms to try again. Thus, to me, Subspace Emissary was a step back from the future possibilities that Adventure Mode seemed to potentially have.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 01:18:25 AM
With Smash Run on the 3DS, it felt like a blending of the two. You had all these familiar enemies of various games that could pop up along the map so you got a bit of that sense of blending of franchises and characters from other franchises having to deal with them using their own moves. I liked racing around to collect as many treasure chests as I could and getting myself powered up for an unknown final battle that could just be a race to the finish or climb as high as you can. The map/world itself wasn't really based on any Nintendo franchise but at least you played as one character in the five minutes you explored through it and since every character explore the same map it felt like a more shared user experience than Subspace and its divided fighters and levels.

Honestly, as simple as it was, I really did like it and played through it a lot with all the characters to unlock all their custom moves. I got a lot of play out of the 3DS as a single player experience thanks to Smash Run and liked it way more than Smash Tour. Can't really comment much on Special Orders since I have hardly played Smash Wii U. Smash 3DS gave me my fill of Smash as I unlocked all the trophies, special character moves, Smash Run power and beat all challenges. So, I've actually still got pretty much of all Smash Wii U to really play through and try to do the same but I just haven't gotten around to it because it just seems quite similar after doing all of this stuff in 3DS. With Ultimate coming out soon, it just feels like Smash Wii U is going to be more obsolete to bother playing through. For me, a lot of the Wii U stages are like new stages to me whereas the 3DS stages are a lot more memorable and special to me and I'm glad to see almost all of them returning.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 01:18:32 AM
Anyways, jumping back a bit to single player objectives. In Melee, it was about working to unlock all the characters, stages and trophies by playing through the various modes and meeting certain objectives. I loved it then and I still do as I've been working on the trophy and achievement hunt with Melee again after losing all that data in a corrupted memory card. There's something special about that game which still holds up. Love seeing all the Melee stages in HD with Ultimate. In Brawl, there were trophies and challenges to collect and beat along with songs to unlock and some characters and stages but there was also a lot of stickers to acquire as well to help you in the Subspace Emissary. Though I wasn't a fan of having to play the Boss Battle mode so much. I've never cared much for Boss Rush modes in any game really.

With Smash 4, stickers were replaced with bonus effects and custom moves along with the usual fare of trophies, songs, challenges. Characters weren't really hidden away though. Every 10 Smash battles gave you a chance to unlock the next character in the unlock rotation. Stages also weren't really hidden away that much which kind of disappoints me. I understand about tournaments and needing save files with characters and stages unlocked on all the consoles/game files being used and all that unlocking can be a pain but I've always liked that as the carrot at the end of the stick for me to work towards. At the moment, Smash Ultimate seems to be taking the approach that characters and stages are all there up front with nothing to find or unlock. That will leave trophies to collect and challenges to work on but I wonder if there will be some new type of collectibles in this game based on the hidden mode not shown.

Stickers in Brawl, custom moves in Smash 4 (which don't seem to be returning or were that highly received or welcomed from players) so what will Ultimate bring to the party? Or will it actually bring nothing at all in that regards as the focus often goes to the multiplayer aspects first with single player secondary so why add extra stuff no one is going to use?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: ThePerm on August 09, 2018, 04:44:35 AM
That Promo video was great. I still need to get a Switch. I'm moving back to my hometown. This might be the right time to go all into Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2018, 12:43:40 PM
All-Star mode is gonna be a beast this time around, especially if it still includes the echoes.

Select screens have had empty spaces in past games, so it doesn't automatically mean there will be more. But I have my doubts they've already revealed all of the stages in the game.

I wasn't a huge fan of Subspace Emissary compared to Adventure Mode in Melee
I feel the same way, and you pretty much explained anything I would have said about it.

I got a lot of play out of the 3DS as a single player experience thanks to Smash Run and liked it way more than Smash Tour.
Smash Run is one of the reasons I liked the 3DS game more than the Wii U one. They actually could bring it back for Switch since it can have local wireless play just like the 3DS, and if they brought it online, even better.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on August 09, 2018, 01:07:04 PM
Having all of the stages upfront, but not the characters kind of bums me out since it's one less thing to unlock.  But with so many characters to unlock, I wonder how much I'll miss it.  I just know the trophies never really did it for me as unlockables because there were too many.  While getting them was fun, I never got the completionist urge to get them all.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 09, 2018, 02:17:03 PM
Long live the king! He looks like one mean and crazy sog, just as he should be. Got tired of DK crew's loose, derpy demeanor over the last 20 years, so it's good to see a DKC character with some, dare I say, edge.

Oh and since it includes elements from all 3 boss battles (crown, blunderbuss, and whirlygig), it means that K. Rool is officially one person in the canon now, not clones or twins or an evil reincarnation 100 years later! Hooray! Not that it completely changes the 900 page fan fiction I may or may not have written, it's just an observation for gosh sakes!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 02:52:56 PM
Everything about the K. Rool reveal was great. It started off showing other fighters facing their enemies and my mind right away raced to DK not having his great nemesis of K. Rool in the game also. Then when it cut to show DK, I thought it had to be K. Rool. But then we had a great moment with Dedede to make me wonder if something else was actually going to happen instead. Just another reason why to like King Dedede. But then K. Rool was revealed and we got to listen to that awesome remix of Gangplank Galleon while showing off his various moves. Totally made the whole direct. Frankly, I loved the whole animation with DK and Diddy. I'd like to see what Sakurai could do directing a DK game now. I feel like he has some of the Rare sensibility with the characters based on that trailer. Glad that K. Rool was prioritized in being added over Dixie Kong. (Sorry Caterkiller.)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 09, 2018, 05:55:30 PM
That last scene when DK and King K Rool are charging at each other is incredible.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 09, 2018, 08:49:09 PM
K Rool looks like he has the potential to be an amazing character.  He's a heavyweight but has long range projectiles, a counter, and a hover move as well.  I'm guessing they'll probably make him the slowest character in the game to be his main weakness since other wise he looks like he could be pretty broken.

Of course K. Rool was one of the most requested characters along with Ridley during the Ballot which shows Sakurai is really concerned about giving the fans what they want.  The previous Smash Bros Ridley didn't get in because he was too big and K. Rool wasn't in because he was considered not relevant since he wasn't in any of the recent Donkey Kong games.  So Sakurai throwing away his previous reasons for not including certain fan favorites to include the most popular ones this time, it does make you wonder about a certain other character's chances.

Basically with Ridley and K. Rool, the most requested character by far among the Smash Bros fanbase that's left is Geno.  With Square Enix already on board thanks to Cloud, I think there's a good chance it might happen.  Dude's had a pretty dedicated fanbase wanting him since Melee even and Sakurai himself has commented on Geno being an interesting character in the past.  So yeah it's something to think about for the next Direct.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on August 09, 2018, 09:25:53 PM
Isn't the most-requested character now Waluigi...?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 09, 2018, 10:39:55 PM
I think it depends on how the Smash 4 survey went. I know a submitted a couple requests for King K. Rool at the time and I'm sure a bunch of people did it for Ridley. So, I wonder how strong the Geno faction was in requesting him during that survey.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 09, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
I'd say the Geno request was pretty strong for Sakurai to outright talk about him during an interview after the last DLC was released.

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/mar/06/i-actually-wanted-include-geno-far-back-brawl-sakurai-spills-beans-one-most-requested-smash-bros-characters/ (https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2016/mar/06/i-actually-wanted-include-geno-far-back-brawl-sakurai-spills-beans-one-most-requested-smash-bros-characters/)

Quote
Sakurai: Geno was actually a character I wanted to include as a fighter. He has a gun for an arm, and just seems like he'd fit absolutely perfectly into Smash.  I was hoping I'd be able to put him in as far back as Super Smash Bros. Brawl, but unfortunately that never ended up materializing.


 Sakurai: Yes. He's incredibly popular. Even though he's an old character, we keep getting loads of votes and requests for us to put him in the game. Even though he still isn't in as a playable fighter, I made sure he'd be in as a Mii costume so his fans would at least feel that they got something.

So he certainly has a lot going his way this time around.
 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 09, 2018, 11:18:19 PM
I’m ambivalent about Geno. I loved Super Mario RPG, but I don’t have a strong attachment to the character. I way past the point where I’d grumble about a character addition. Still, I’d certainly rather see other characters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 10, 2018, 01:41:29 AM
Huh. Well, if Sakurai says he actually has been wanting to include him since Brawl then I think he is in. Since this also seems to be Sakurai's last hurrah on the series (or at least he seems to be acting like he has no idea how to top it after this) then I think he's also going to include some characters he just wants himself. A lot of the Mii Costumes from Wii U seem to be getting turned into fighters or assist trophies and Geno did get a Mii costume so I'd say his odds are really good at this point to appear in some capacity although fighter does seem more likely than assist trophy based on those comments.

I made my comments about Geno before so I'm not going to repeat myself too much but, on a list of characters I care about from Nintendo, he's way, way down on the list. Even when I play Super Mario RPG, Geno isn't really a reason why or one of the characters I want to revisit. Mario, Peach, Bowser, Booster, Mallow, Frogfucius, Boshi, Belome, Toadofsky, the Axem Rangers, Valentina and Dodo are all characters that made a big impression on me in some way and I remember them pretty easily off the top of my head. But Daisy is in, K. Rool is in, Sakurai doubled the Metroid representation with Ridley and Dark Samus and brought back Wolf. So, why should I complain and stand in the way of some other fan's character wish? Because I want other characters ahead of him that's why!!![
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 10, 2018, 08:50:12 AM
Huh. Well, if Sakurai says he actually has been wanting to include him since Brawl then I think he is in. Since this also seems to be Sakurai's last hurrah on the series (or at least he seems to be acting like he has no idea how to top it after this) then I think he's also going to include some characters he just wants himself.
Ultimate is definitely played up as a curtain call. It doesn’t sound like Sakurai is ready to hang it up yet. In this recent article from The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/games/2018/aug/08/super-smash-bros-ultimate-masahiro-sakurai-35-years-gaming-history-nintendo), he says:
Quote
At this point I have been asked to create Smash and so I am doing that, and will continue to do so if the demand is there.
There will always be a demand for Sakurai to make Super Smash Bros. He probably likes playing with other people’s toys, and they seem eager to indulge him (except maybe Square Enix with music). People change; maybe one day he will hang it up.

“Everyone is Here” gives Sakurai some leeway in future installments. If he wants to make some drastic changes in the next one, he’s earned enough goodwill to do so. Granted, he earned it a long time ago. At the same time, people will always complain. Sakurai set the bar with all returning fighters plus new ones so that’s what people will expect. If he folded some Echo Fighters into the main ones as costumes, I imagine most people would understand. I mean, they’ll complain but also understand. At some some point, the character select screen is going to look absurd if it doesn’t already.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 10, 2018, 11:58:48 AM
They're going to have to use like a scrolling character selection screen, or like netflix-style columns.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Discord.RSS on August 10, 2018, 12:05:01 PM
They're going to have to use like a scrolling character selection screen, or like netflix-style columns.

Watch 'em implement a "suggested for you" column with only Ganondorf, a few blue haired swordfighters, and Wolf in it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Soren on August 10, 2018, 12:42:40 PM
They're going to have to use like a scrolling character selection screen, or like netflix-style columns.

Watch 'em implement a "suggested for you" column with only Ganondorf, a few blue haired swordfighters, and Wolf in it.


Honestly I'd love to be able to make a "My Mains" column just so I don't have to go through the entire character select screen.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 10, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
But seriously, right now there's what, 71 (including "echo" fighters) characters? I think you'd only want to display like 10 per row, so it should have like 3-4 rows, then you just go down or up to cycle through them all. So it scrolls down, but not left to right.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Evan_B on August 10, 2018, 08:08:41 PM
Classic mode is arcade-y. Adventure mode in Melee was essentially Classic mode with some stages that, in theory, were evocative of Nintendo locales and IP, but were just an extension of the stage selection and classic mode mentality. No variety, no real surprises, save for Giga Bowser and Luigi and maybe Giant Kirby.

I'd rather let Classic and maybe All Star mode stay the arcade-y challenges and have an Adventure Mode with some ridiculous and actually, I don't know, adventurous feeling. Sure, it would be preferable if these locales featured in Adventure Mode were literal crossovers, where these characters entered each others' worlds. But the whole concept of Smash Bros. isn't the ACTUAL characters fighting- they're all trophies, or toys.

If you're looking for substantial single player content, I would rather have the variety of modes- home run contest, break the targets, board the platforms, classic, even matches, etc all represent some sort of interesting twist on the Smash Bros. formula that creates the foundation. In the same way, I'd like a narrative-driven, context heavy Adventure mode like Subspace to return. If you think about it, Classic and Event Matches are already triple the size they were in Melee because of the roster size alone. We don't need another arcade-y mode like that, or All-Star.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on August 21, 2018, 03:36:53 PM
Look at the last direct that revealed K Rool. That purple chair, that yellow chair, that couch and those pillows! It's been pointed out everywhere that those colors reference Tatl, Tael and Skull Kid with Majoras Mask! I wouldn't have thought anything of it if not for the last direct.

During the E3 Direct look at the back ground. Wooden shelves, tables, rope ladders, green plants and mutha'flethin' red and yellow barrel. That was Sakurai hinting at a DK newcomer! Just look! I would't think anything of the Majoras Mask conspiracy if not for the earthy natural theme that went on the direct before K Rool.

You guys just watch!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 21, 2018, 11:52:21 PM
This is crazy. Would Sakurai go out and find a rope ladder, then pin it up in Namco Bandai offices to shoot a 25 minute video for an obscure hint that nobody noticed for months?

I'm leaning towards yes.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 22, 2018, 02:16:30 PM
I have exciting news exclusively for NWR: Dark Samus is officially not a girl.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?category=cat02_fighter_04-dash


8/16/2018
Today's Fighter
#4: Dark Samus
Dark Samus joins the battle as Samus's echo fighter. With floatier movement, it's a little different from Samus--and it doesn't roll when dodging or jumping. If you look closely, you can see that its bombs and missiles look a little different, too.


-RFA
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: that Baby guy on August 22, 2018, 10:58:50 PM
Reggie is Lucario getting a special stage and new move?s
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 22, 2018, 11:07:41 PM
No. You want Pokemon? Get a Game Boy.

-RFA
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: that Baby guy on August 22, 2018, 11:10:10 PM
I have a gameboy but the pokemon on it was boring and didn't have any of the good ones and I didn't have much color so I gave it away. I want a stage just for Lucario in smash like if the stage was a giant statue of him and if you played as lucario on it is much easier to win I think everyone else wants that too reggie did you ask your boss?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: that Baby guy on August 22, 2018, 11:14:48 PM
Will there be more lucario Amiibos I want to collect more but I can't find any like the one he was in the movie with aaron right by him.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 22, 2018, 11:17:40 PM
Quote
reggie did you ask your boss?


Not funny :reggie:

-RFA
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 22, 2018, 11:41:38 PM
When is Reggie going to be in Smash? He's clearly been the best Nintendo character since 2004.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 23, 2018, 09:15:55 AM
When is Reggie going to be in Smash? He's clearly been the best Nintendo character since 2004.
(https://i.imgur.com/EFn2bYz.png)

The roster will never feel “complete.” Ridley and King K. Rool were my two major omissions of older Nintendo characters. I always thought King K. Rool should make the cut even if I was never into Rare’s DKC games. I’m ambivalent toward most of the roster though I’m all for series representation. For example, I don’t give a **** about Little Mac. I’m still glad he made the roster.

Anyway, someone on ResetEra mentioned the great idea of including the original Super Smash Bros. as a bonus especially since it’s looking likely that Masterpieces will not return due to the end of Virtual Console.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Caterkiller on August 23, 2018, 11:21:06 PM
Before the launch of Brawl, Smash 3DS and Wii U I kept having to hold my breath wondering if Ridley would ever become playable. That weight has been lifted and while I really really really want Dixie Kong that nagging feeling that there will always be an empty hole in my smash heart is more or less completely gone.

For the most part I am just coasting on all the updates and info. I got Ridley! K Rool's in and one of these days Dixie is sure to follow. I don't need anything anymore aside from good balance and the announcer going "SUPER SMASH BROTHERS... ULTIMATE!!!!!!"

Looks like Adrock has his completed roster, anyone else?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 24, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
Looks like Adrock has his completed roster, anyone else?
Not quite. We all have personal favorites who haven’t made the cut and may not ever. However, I’m at the point where it feels kind of gross to complain about the roster (or like anything about the amount of content) simply due to the sheer amount of work that has been put into the game. For me, especially with the additions of Inkling, Ridley, and King K. Rool, there are no glaring absences of pre-2017 Nintendo characters. Sure, there are characters I want (e.g. Midna) but none I feel leave a hole in the roster. I’m not sure I’m explaining this well. Like, it always felt wrong that Ridley never made it. In Melee, it felt wrong that Wario didn’t make it. The roster will never feel complete, but every addition for me feels like a bonus now.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: pokepal148 on August 24, 2018, 01:52:20 AM
at this point the only major omissions from the roster are Banjo, Spyro and Crash and those are third party characters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 24, 2018, 02:16:13 AM
I get exactly what Adrock is saying and agree. Sure, there are a few more characters I think would be great editions. I feel somewhat sad at how Chibi-Robo has been somewhat overlooked at being included much in this series. He can't even rise to an Assist Trophy or Mii Costume. All he's had for representation is a trophy and three stickers in Brawl and a trophy in 3DS Smash. Even Steel Diver got a sub included as a weapon in 3DS Smash. He clearly doesn't warrant much attention at Nintendo which is too bad since I'll keep pounding the drum that I think he's got great potential at being an actual fighter. But do I feel that is a glaring absence from the roster? Unfortunately, no. He just doesn't have that much clout or following that a lot of other characters that weren't included before have.

It felt wrong when Roy was missing in Brawl after his popularity in Melee. It felt wrong when Wolf was left out of Smash 4 since I liked the inclusion of more villains. Same with Lucas but he got brought back pretty quickly as DLC. Like Adrock alluded to, I think Wario was 1 of the top 3 most wanted inclusion in Brawl from the moment it was first announced because it felt like he was a character who should be included in this series. In the past few iterations, there has been a lot of ongoing requests for Ridley and K. Rool and many of the third party characters now involved that there it doesn't feel like there is a really major character that's being overlooked still. With K. Rool, everything else feels like gravy.

That's why I don't even care that Chrom was included this go around. What do I care when I've got these other fighters I've always wanted to play as?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on August 24, 2018, 02:40:35 AM
˙ǝuo ʇsɹᴉɟ ʎɹǝʌ ǝɥʇ ǝɔuᴉs ǝɯɐƃ ǝɥʇ uᴉ uǝǝq s,oᴉɹɐW ¿ʇnoqɐ ƃuᴉʞlɐʇ ʇol noʎ ǝɹɐ plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ uᴉ ʇɐɥM
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 24, 2018, 03:48:29 AM
at this point the only major omissions from the roster are Banjo, Spyro and Crash and those are third party characters.

We're trying to limit it to characters that have been in good games.

-RFA
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on August 24, 2018, 04:15:35 AM
at this point the only major omissions from the roster are Banjo, Spyro and Crash and those are third party characters.

We're trying to limit it to characters that have been in good games.

-RFA


Thread over.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on August 24, 2018, 05:50:23 AM
Overall, this game was probably the one that convinced naysayers that GameCube is the system for games.

That is to say if the online is actually adequate this time around. >_>

That's pretty much the dumbest comment ever made about the roster.



The Subspace Emissary is a surprisingly lengthy adventure that weaves (almost) all of the game's characters into an inexplicable but utterly awesome series of platfomer-esque stages and battles.



Mario: Go back to the cape, get rid of F.L.O.O.D


NO new Mario, Zelda,, Pokemon, or Kirby characters, and no more star fox clones.  There are more than enough of those already.  Time to give some other series more of a chance.



think how much fun it would be to play multiplayer smash on the go. This game could probably even sell thousands of Gameboys. Why doesnt nintendo see this great possibility!!!!!!!!!


Nice writeup, but shouldn't you guys have a REview by now? :)

I kid. Not that it matters, we all know what to expect anyway.



I just hope that if this game comes around there will be more diverse characters.  No more clones.  And more overall characters, that'd be nice.

Oh, I know most of what I say is unfeasible.  I'm an idea man, not a game designer.
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Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Krushrenada on August 24, 2018, 11:50:48 AM
The roster has never really been all that important to me, what I'm really hoping for is more good single player content. It's how I've mainly played Smash games and I've always enjoyed the challenge of acquiring all the trophies and unlocking all the secrets and other collectibles including playing through all the modes with each character because I like to be showered with the appreciation that I so rightly deserve. It's part of the reason why I liked Melee so much. A lot of characters and stages required some effort to unlock and gave motivation to keep playing through different modes and being surprised by their addition. It isn't like today's games where a majority of the "rewards" are just messages that pop up on the screen informing you of your accomplishment which are typically handed out for things like simply beating the game or jumping 500 times or other such nonsense. Some achievement that is.

I wasn't a huge fan of Subspace Emissary compared to Adventure Mode in Melee although I did like playing through it to unlock some of the fighters and see their entrance videos that played with them. They clearly put a lot of effort into the brilliant cutscenes which I did not want to ruin by simply watching them on YouTube like so many people apparently did. What I disliked about the mode is that Adventure Mode inspired this idea of interesting shared mash-up of all the Nintendo Franchises and characters together. It felt like an actual cross-over, the kind of thing that people write fan-fiction about except it's of much better quality, similar to my own fan fiction that I play out on the forums every day. That's nothing but quality.

With Smash Run on the 3DS, it felt like a blending of the two. I liked racing around to collect as many treasure chests as I could and getting myself powered up for an unknown final battle that could just be a race to the finish or climb as high as you can. It isn't unlike how I play things here on the forums except here, everyone else won't know it's a game until it's too late and I'll already be far too powered up for anyone to stop me. I got a lot of play out of the 3DS as a single player experience thanks to Smash Run and liked it way more than Smash Tour. Can't really comment much on Special Orders since I have hardly played Smash Wii U since the Wii U is a toilet fire and I have a tendency to avoid anything trashy as to keep up my level of high class.

In Melee, it was about working to unlock all the characters, stages and trophies by playing through the various modes and meeting certain objectives. I loved it then and I still do as I'm the biggest fan of the GameCube you ever did see. Some people have been foolish enough to challenge my GameCube fandom but they were quickly obliterated by just how much I love that little purple cube so I hope you'll just accept that and not try to challenge it here. Scratch that, go ahead and challenge me, I'm confident no one here even comes close to my GameCube admiration. Getting back on track, I've been working on the trophy and achievement hunt with Melee again after losing all that data in a corrupted memory card. Okay so the GameCube isn't perfect and the memory cards are a bit of an issue because of this problem. But at the same time on a modern system corrupted memory would make the entire system unusable whereas here, I can just pop in a new memory card and be good to go. There's something special about that game which still holds up, which isn't surprising since there is something special about every GameCube game and pretty much any one is better than modern games.

With Smash 4, characters weren't really hidden away. Every 10 Smash battles gave you a chance to unlock the next character in the unlock rotation. Stages also weren't really hidden away that much which kind of disappoints me, though I'm used to disappointments as one has to be as a member of the NWR forums. I understand about tournaments and needing save files with characters and stages unlocked but these nerds are kind of missing the point of the game by having tournaments anyway. They should instead hold a tournament to see who can unlock all of the content the fastest, that would be far more dynamic and interesting to watch that some 1v1 snoozefest. At the moment, Smash Ultimate seems to be taking the approach that characters and stages are all there up front with nothing to find or unlock. That's the kind of thing lousy modern games do but I guess at this point in time Smash may have no choice but to cater to modern day gaming babies who need to have everything spoon-fed to them because they can barely figure out how to sit up without the game telling them to. I realize not everyone can be as intelligent as me but at the same time I didn't think I was that far above the rest.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on August 24, 2018, 07:27:59 PM
So I've been mulling over Dark Samus' Echo status since the recent Nintendo Direct. Conclusion: she is appropriately an Echo fighter given she made her first full appearance in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. That's just corny enough for me to find endearing. Still, it would have been cool if she was more of a partial clone like Chrom who has some of Ike's moves or Ganondorf who has Cloud's Down Smash etc. Dark Samus had three moves as an Assist Trophy: scattershot, homing energy/Phazon orbs, and Phazon "tentacles" (for lack of a better word) which should have been integrated into her moveset.

Neutral Special: Scattershot, charge for Phazon tentacles (basically Ike's Neutral Special, Eruption)
Forward+Special: No change, she has missiles in Metroid Prime 2: Echoes
Up+Special: High jump with shockwave landing (basically King Dedede's Up+Special, Super Dedede; Dark Samus does the shockwave landing in Echoes and Corruption)
Down+Special: Clone (basically Zelda's Down+Special, Phantom Slash)
Up Smash: Energy/Phazon orbs (no longer homing because that'd be cheap as hell)
Final Smash: Transform into Metroid Prime (final form without exoskeleton), wreak havoc. She doesn't do this in the games, but who cares? It’d be a cool Final Smash.

Get rid of the Grapple Beam; everything else can be copied from Samus. Dark Samus was essentially Nintendo's Venom in which she copied/got stronger versions the hero's powers so I don't mind her having most of Samus' moves. I still think Sakurai and co could have taken more from the source material.
The roster has never really been all that important to me, what I'm really hoping for is more good single player content.
I definitely don't buy Super Smash Bros. for single player content, but I think there's a great opportunity in Ultimate to do something special with the single-player mode. The reveal trailers could be a few different CGI cutscenes edited together to look like they're the same clip. So maybe the CGI cutscenes we've seen in the reveal trailers are actually much smaller snippets in a story mode, and they're all loosely connected into a larger (hopefully not super-serious) narrative. So like, you play through a simple Melee-esque Adventure mode level, watch a short cutscene to set the stage, then have whatever Smash match/boss fight was established in the cutscene. Rinse, repeat.

Let's use Simon's reveal trailer.

1. Cutscene: Luigi is deep in Dracula's castle
2. Play through a short Castlevania stage as Luigi
3. Cutscene: Death murders the **** out of Luigi, Simon arrives at Dracula's castle
4. Play as Simon through a different Castlevania stage, fight Death
5. Cutscene: Richter saves Simon
6. Play as Richter and help Simon defeat Death

This idea would require a lot of cutscenes so I don't know if that's possible in every sense of the word. Additionally, I wonder how many Adventure levels would be needed to make it worthwhile. 20? 30? One for each character? One for each non-Echo fighter? They wouldn’t have to be super long or anything. However, it’s imperative that each level be designed with a specific character in mind, or they’ll feel generic and boring like The Subspace Emissary. I don’t know if we can have a stage that takes advantage of say, both Kirby and Little Mac’s strengths and still be fun. I realize this would be an absurd amount of work thus probably asking too much. Either way, I think it would be best to nix co-op in an Adventure Mode because it doesn’t work unless it was only via Switch handheld mode.
Quote
With Smash Run on the 3DS, it felt like a blending of the two. I liked racing around to collect as many treasure chests as I could and getting myself powered up for an unknown final battle that could just be a race to the finish or climb as high as you can.
Smash Run worked pretty well as a single player mode. However, I think it's true potential is as an 8-player online/local battle royale with everyone on the same map.
Quote
At the moment, Smash Ultimate seems to be taking the approach that characters and stages are all there up front with nothing to find or unlock. That's the kind of thing lousy modern games do but I guess at this point in time Smash may have no choice but to cater to modern day gaming babies who need to have everything spoon-fed to them because they can barely figure out how to sit up without the game telling them to.
I believe the stages are available from the start but the characters aren't. I'd rather unlock the stages but have all the music from a series once at least one stage from a series is unlocked. I don't like unlocking music and never bothered to in Brawl and For Wii U.

I'm hoping Ultimate is the Super Smash Bros. title in which the Stage Builder isn't a generic miserable pile of secrets.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on August 26, 2018, 01:31:02 PM
Looks like Adrock has his completed roster, anyone else?
I don't think mine would be complete unless they made a Mario edition of Smash. But I'm crazy like that. That's just my personal preference though, I'm not going to fault the game especially when it does a good job covering lots of franchises.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on September 12, 2018, 08:51:51 AM
Yesterday, I managed to snag a pre-order for the Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Pro Controller. I’m undecided on whether to keep the Special Edition (steel case and Pro Controller) or the game and controller separately. Amazon didn’t make the Special Edition available until the literal day after scuttling the 20% Prime discount for game pre-orders (the discount being the only reason I ever pre-ordered games) so I don’t get a discount there. I did pre-order the standard game with the Prime discount so the cost differential between the two options is about $18 after tax.

I’m ambivalent toward special/limited editions these days. I mainly pre-ordered the Special Edition to ensure I could get the Pro Controller. I don’t even really care for the controller itself except that I need an additional one for multiplayer, and it just happens to be a different color so I can tell them apart. I kind of feel like if I’m going to make a big to-do about physical releases all the time, I should probably care more about the steel case that comes with the Special Edition. I’m aware that this is run-of-the-mill first-world problem bullshit. However, I’m curious what others would do.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on September 12, 2018, 12:10:52 PM
Myself, I could pre-order the Special Edition at Best Buy and get 20% off plus an extra $10 in credit, but I've chosen not to. That deal's offered for the regular game so that's what I've gone with. I don't particularly care for the design of the controller nor the steelbook, with the steelbook in particular seeming rather uninspired. It's just a black case with the Smash logo on it. There are so many more interesting things they could have done than that.

So yeah, if you're asking me, I don't find the special edition to be... special enough to buy.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on September 12, 2018, 01:08:09 PM
Yeah, I’m not really digging the steelbook design either. I’m hoping it’s a placeholder (the inside is apparently just Battlefield). It should have been that huge mural of all the characters that’s on the website when opened. Thanks for the feedback.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on September 13, 2018, 06:49:56 PM

Direct link: https://youtu.be/BPDc3yVjfNw
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 14, 2018, 12:51:58 AM
Its funny how so many people including myself though Isabelle would be an Echo and then she ends up looking more of a Lucas/Wolf style character instead.  Of course it makes sense now when you really think about it.  Animal Crossing: New Leaf was the biggest Nintendo game last gen in Japan, selling even more then Pokemon on the 3DS over there.  It's also really huge in the West as well, so it makes sense Sakurai would want to make the second Animal Crossing rep more unique since there's a huge fanbase for this series.

In comparison to character like Daisy and Dark Samus where the series they're from already have several unique characters, it's understandable why Isabelle got more work put into her.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Mop it up on September 14, 2018, 12:25:17 PM
Yeah, I'm okay with Isabelle being a Luigi-fied Villager if that's what she is. Animal Crossing just had the one character before so there's still more to draw inspiration from the series.

Also, back to that special edition: if the steelbook case had the Switch dock design on it, then it'd be neat.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on September 16, 2018, 04:56:27 PM
CoroCoro is saying there are 108 stages total, up from 103 per the last direct.

Link (https://twitter.com/AllSourceGaming/status/1041190041773518848)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on September 16, 2018, 04:58:27 PM
That's room for 5 more franchises to be represented, which would be insane.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Khushrenada on September 16, 2018, 05:37:25 PM
There are currently 103 stages yet the picture of Stage Select shows that there is a possibility of another 6 that could still be added based on the black gap on the bottom row.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/216416163809198081/476775173622595594/unknown.png)

Makes sense. Based on the pic of stages shown earlier, it was assumed there might only be about 6 more to come and they'd probably be new. However, if it's only 5 then that leaves a black gap in the bottom corner. Some people are now speculating that it could be an arrow for future DLC. Perhaps though maybe Sakurai has something else in mind. It will be wait and see now.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on September 16, 2018, 08:15:59 PM
I'm thinking it'll be an arrow for future DLC.  That makes the most sense, even if Sakurai takes a much needed break, I'm sure Nintendo will want to milk the franchize some more.


Edit: a popular theory floating around is that there are two more characters left to be revealed: one new, one echo.  This is based on the box art of the special edition.


Video link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gvdle2ZPo)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 17, 2018, 12:53:42 AM
Edit: a popular theory floating around is that there are two more characters left to be revealed: one new, one echo.  This is based on the box art of the special edition.

I wouldn't put much thought in the box theory.  The promotional material can be easily edited for the final product.  Plus we'll still get another Smash Direct before the game is released.  In the last one they revealed 5 new characters, 2 unique and 3 Echo fighters.  If they only had 3 characters left to reveal after the August Smash Direct, they wouldn't have shown that many during it.  This would mean there's only 2 new characters left with one being an Echo which I find hard to believe.

I just don't see Sakurai allowing 5 characters to be revealed in the August Direct if he's only going to then show 2 in the final Direct where everything about the game is revealed.  Even if it's a huge Adventure mode that blows people away, he would know that showing that many characters in one Smash Direct would set up people's expectations for the next.

Of course this is assuming it's just one more Smash Bros Direct as well.  There could be one in October and another in November with how big the game is in which case I doubt they'd have only 1 in each, especially if one is just an Echo.  Plus will probably be a Pokemon Direct in the near future to cover Let's Go in more detail before launch which could be when a new Pokemon is shown as well. 

Now I don't thing the final roster will be that much bigger then what's been shown but I think 5 more characters is a more realistic number to expect then just 2 considering how much time we still have before release and how Nintendo and Sakurai will probably want to really go all out closer to launch.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: nickmitch on September 17, 2018, 04:59:33 PM
I agree that the box theory doesn't hold too much water.

We should expect at least one more Pokemon to represent Gen 7, and I doubt Sakurai would save that for the last announced character, since it wouldn't have that surprise factor.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Adrock on September 17, 2018, 11:02:48 PM
I don’t remember if Melee characters were formally announced. My first exposure to the game was probably like E3 footage on TechTV (before it was G4). Peach was the first newcomer I remember seeing. We didn’t get newcomer trailers back then. Mewtwo was probably the final character most people unlocked because it took 20 hours in Vs. Mode.

Since then, Sakurai seems to front load the newcomer reveals in that the biggest ones occur well before release. In Brawl, I’d argue that Sonic was a bigger deal than Snake, but the latter was revealed with four other newcomers in the debut trailer. That always stuck out to me more. According to the Smash Bros. Dojo, the last Brawl newcomer revealed before the game’s release was R.O.B. I feel like that would’ve been a bigger surprise had he not been playable in Mario Kart DS first.

I can’t check Miiverse anymore so based on the YouTube trailers, looks like Shulk was the last newcomer revealed before Super Smash Bros. for 3DS was released. Cool though a lot of people probably missed his game. For me, Mega Man was the biggest surprise without counting Cloud since he was DLC.

Anyway, a new Pokemon is expected so it’d be anticlimactic to go out that way as far as surprises go. I can’t think of a first party character that would hit like Ridley or even King K. Rool. On the third party side, I’ve seen names thrown around such as Dante, Doom Guy, Banjo-Kazooie, and Master Chief. If Cloud made it in, the field is wide open.

Except Goku.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Dec. 7, 2018 Dreams Come True - Everything is here!
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 17, 2018, 11:21:12 PM
Anyway, a new Pokemon is expected so it’d be anticlimactic to go out that way as far as surprises go. I can’t think of a first party character that would hit like Ridley or even King K. Rool. On the third party side, I’ve seen names thrown around such as Dante, Doom Guy, Banjo-Kazooie, and Master Chief. If Cloud made it in, the field is wide open.

Except Goku.

I personally expect Geno to be the final newcomer shown before release.  He's right up there with Ridley and K Rool as long time requested characters by the hardcore fan who watch the Smash Direct as they air so his reveal would certainly make the core Smash community go insane.  Plus he'd be a huge WTF character to the general public who have either never heard of him before or might have just experience Mario RPG for the first time thanks to SNES Classic so it'd get the casual fans interested in such a strange character to them appearing.

If the tagline of the game is "Everyone is Here", Geno is like the perfect way to say to longtime Smash Bros fans that yep, literally everyone is here.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on September 18, 2018, 03:23:56 AM
Obviously, no one is going to be able to crack the mind of Sakurai, the Joker of the video game development world. But, how can close can NWR users get to that madness?

So, let's have a friendly competition to see who can predict it best.

1. How many fighters will Ultimate end up having at release? Give me your number either based on unique fighters or total number of fighters including echo characters.

2. Who are the remaining characters you think will be announced? Don't forget to mention if you think they will be unique or echo.

3. If the rumor is correct, then what do you think the final five stages yet to be shown will be?

4. If the secret mode is called Spirits after all, what do you think the mode will contain. Shoot for 5 details.

5. If there is any other predication you want to make about the game, this is your chance for extra credit. Go for it!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Stratos on September 18, 2018, 01:27:45 PM
My money is on Geno, because he had a Mii Fighter costume in the last game, just like K Rool, and Chrom, and Isabelle.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 18, 2018, 11:45:22 PM
Here is my theory, Sakurai said not to expect a lot of new characters.  He also explained that there is a difference between new and echo characters.  Yes, echo characters take up a new character slot in the game, but they are also not exactly new.

We have also seen that echo fighters can sorta have a mixture of moves not just from one character but several characters and this is the key to my idea.  I think there will be more than just a handful of echo fighters, where it will make sense.  But not every character will get an echo fighter. I also believe Sakurai is trolling us when he says we will know all the characters that will be in the game from the start.  I believe he MAY hide some echo fighters secret.  However this still doesn't mean we will be getting a great number of new characters.  Partially because I can see some characters just don't need another echo fighter.  So I am going to put my prediction down as 80 total characters including Echo characters.

I also would like to predict another Pokemon Trainer as an echo fighter.  They will have different Fire, Grass, water type Pokemon from a different generation and may play with the formula changing up which type takes which roll in the battle.

I believe Ken will be the Echo fighter for Ryu, but sense that is too easy instead I will predict Akuma will be the Echo fighter. 

Finally for the same reason instead of Shadow or Mecha-Sonic (which honestly if they did Shadow Mecha-Sonic could just be a skin) I believe Tails will be Echo fighter of Sonic, and he will have some hover move similar to Snakes or Princess Peaches.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Sarail on September 19, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
Obviously, no one is going to be able to crack the mind of Sakurai, the Joker of the video game development world. But, how can close can NWR users get to that madness?

So, let's have a friendly competition to see who can predict it best.

1. How many fighters will Ultimate end up having at release? Give me your number either based on unique fighters or total number of fighters including echo characters.

2. Who are the remaining characters you think will be announced? Don't forget to mention if you think they will be unique or echo.

3. If the rumor is correct, then what do you think the final five stages yet to be shown will be?

4. If the secret mode is called Spirits after all, what do you think the mode will contain. Shoot for 5 details.

5. If there is any other predication you want to make about the game, this is your chance for extra credit. Go for it!
1. There's 74 total characters (unique and echo) now, and I believe it'll round off at an even 80 when all is said and done by release date.

2. As for who's left? My money is on Isaac (unique), Skull Kid (unique), Geno (unique), Incineroar /or/ Decidueye (unique), Ray 01 (unique), Banjo/Kazooie (unique). I don't think there are any echo fighters left to reveal.

3. Five stages? Isaac will get his own stage — possibly fighting atop the Venus Lighthouse. Geno should get a stage set in Star Road. A Custom Robo battle arena for Ray 01, Spiral Mountain, of course, for Banjo-Kazooie, and as for a final stage...possibly a new Final Fantasy stage.

4. I think the Spirits mode (if it's the single-player story mode) will be how we'll unlock the entirety of the roster.

5. I predict the game will most definitely get DLC — and with that will come additional characters, skins, music, stages. A fighter from ARMS is totally happening. I'd love to see Maximo from Ghosts 'n Goblins as playable. There's so many possibilities. Nintendo know Smash is going to print money...so they'll totally milk the DLC arm of the game, for sure.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 20, 2018, 02:36:23 AM
My questions is what other characters could technically be Echo fighters? 

Ken,  Shadow/Mecha Sonic/Tails (maybe), Birdo (for Yoshi), Doctor Mario (I think he already is an echo fighter), Dixie Kong???  Who else?  Mrs. Pac Man?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 20, 2018, 03:15:59 AM
I mean, there's a jillion potential echoes they could do if they wanted. But presumably they're not going to go crazy and keep the character select screen legible given that they're insisting on keeping them as separate selectable fighters by default instead of just costume-like swaps.

But just off the top of my head:

-Probably mega evolution **** for every Pokemon or very similar Pokemon
-Dixie for Diddy
-Unlimited Fire Emblem characters for every Fire Emblem character
-A good handful of Animal Crossing characters for the Animal Crossing characters
-A good handful of F-Zero characters for Captain Falcon
-Protoman or Roll for Megaman
-Impa for Shiek
-Hilda for Zelda
-Medusa for Palutena
-Other Mother 2 or 3 characters for Ness/Lucas
-Dry Bowser for Bowser
-Upgraded Alph or Brittany for Olimar
-Other Final Fantasy lame-os for Cloud
-Other Bayonetta characters for Bayonetta
-Xenoblade X or 2 characters for Shulk

And that's just obvious one-to-one options, they could get creative and do like an Advanced Wars character for Snake or Chibi Robo for ROB or something. 

But just to register a prediction, I'll say there's two more full characters (Isabelle-grade doesn't count) and five more echoes for a 75 count. That would leave room for another 5 DLC jobs that would push the roster right to the brink of sanity.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on September 20, 2018, 06:00:57 PM
1. I also think there will be an even 80. 72 unique with 8 echo fighters. As Sarail said, there's 74 now, so that means 4 more unique and 2 more echos. 

2. I think the unique ones will be Min Min, Decidueye, Travis Touchdown, and Banjo and Kazooie. Echos will be Shadow (for Sonic), and Louie/One of the other ones from Pikmin 3 (for Olimar) I think they'll integrate the poison and rock pikmin.

3. New Stages: One for ARMS, NMH, and BK. A second Splatoon stage and a new Xenoblade stage.

4. Like Subspace Emissary, but better. Single player, but can multiplayer local and online.  Does not give all character unlocks, possibly progresses as you unlock characters.

5. DLC is a lock, but won't be talked about until E3.  Potential adds include Ken (echo), Spring Man and Ribbon Girl (alts), Otcolings (echo), Geno, Isaac, Yarn Yoshi, Not Goku, Never Goku.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 21, 2018, 12:07:53 AM
Here is what I find interesting.  If you are going to do DLC, don't make the DLC echo fighters.  So I could see more echo fighters to be released in the core game than as DLC.  So I could see the numbers reversed.  2 more new characters and 4 more echo fighters. 

For DLC I would love to see DLC packages.  1 Stage 1 Character 1 Echo Character of that character purchased.  Seems like a good deal. 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 21, 2018, 01:30:01 AM
Whoops, didn't realize the Echoes didn't count in the 68 total.

So I'd revise to match Spak-Spang, two new full characters, four new echoes for retail release. At 80 I have no idea how they'll cram more in for DLC, so I won't speculate there.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on September 22, 2018, 10:49:26 AM
New rumour:

(https://i.imgur.com/7xKXAcg.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 22, 2018, 12:05:08 PM
Even if it's fake I still expect Ken to get in.  Dudes the original Echo fighter for fighting game and actually more popular then the majority of other characters people think have a chance of getting in.  It's kind of a win-win for Sakurai since he can easily include an extremely popular character and not have to worry about any blowback since most people expect Ken to be similar to Ryu and even love him for it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Soren on September 22, 2018, 12:05:23 PM
Ken is such a boring pick.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on September 22, 2018, 10:07:13 PM
Chuck E Cheese as a law enforcement officer.

Am in.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: that Baby guy on September 23, 2018, 12:53:18 PM
Chuck E Cheese as a law enforcement officer.

Am in.

Name of the game?

The Fuzz and the Cheese
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on September 23, 2018, 02:09:00 PM
Fuzz E. Cheese?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on September 26, 2018, 08:03:18 PM
Sakurai states the obvious by reminding us that character reveals will slow down. (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/09/sakurai_warns_smash_bros_fans_that_new_character_reveals_will_slow_down_from_now_on)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on September 26, 2018, 11:10:40 PM
Sakurai states the obvious by reminding us that character reveals will slow down. (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/09/sakurai_warns_smash_bros_fans_that_new_character_reveals_will_slow_down_from_now_on)
(https://i.imgur.com/Js2HSsK.gif)

Sakurai is a colossal troll so we should keep that in mind.

This is the same man who literally quit his job of 14 years because he was tired of the expectation of making sequels then less than a decade later decided to spend the next six years making Super Smash Bros. sequels. Who even knows what he is thinking ever, about anything?

I'm really trying not to get too bogged down with all the fan theories and (mostly) fake leaks. GameXplain posted a video about a semi-new theory making the rounds which suggests, based on the blog and math, that there are six to eight characters left to be revealed. Does that mean character reveals are slowing down as Sakurai said? We have nine newcomers since the first teaser. Six to eight still seems like a lot to me. Just seems easier not to think about it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Stratos on September 28, 2018, 12:40:35 PM
I'm pretty sure the full quote was that "character reveals leading up to the launch will slow down", which I take to mean aside from one or two characters most of the remainder are being saved for a launch info blowout like a launch day direct or something.

Quote
“We announced Isabelle in the Nintendo Direct… however, it would be a mistake to think that the new character announcements will keep going until Smash Bros. releases. We may have been a little trigger-happy so we’ll be living modestly from here on out.”
(emphasis mine)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on September 28, 2018, 05:22:20 PM
Slow down... as in Viewtiful Joe.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on September 28, 2018, 07:15:21 PM
Don't tease me like that, Reggie Senpai! T_T
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on October 02, 2018, 09:26:19 PM
Download cards appear in Japan. (https://twitter.com/eating_nitro/status/1047068327699537921)

FWIW, there are two empty spaces for characters on the card.  Probably nothing, but SPECULATION!!!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 24, 2018, 08:47:55 PM
Surprised nobody is talking about this here since it's the new hotness.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/rumor-massive-potential-smash-ultimate-leak-allegedly-reveals-every-character-now-w-poll.76702/

For anyone that doesn't want the click the link basically it says the remaining characters are.

- Shadow
- Banjo-Kazooie
- Isaac
- Ken
- Mach Rider
- Geno
- Chorus Kids

So what do you think folk?  I mean we are almost a month away from release so is the time the big leaks happen.  The last Smash Bros roster leak was related to a copy of the 3DS version sent to the ESRB so this situation isn't too far fetched.

Personally I would love for it to be real but the inclusion of Banjo-Kazooie makes me hesitant.  I mean, Microsoft has had success with Minecraft on Nintendo systems and been open to crossplay so there is a relationship between the 2 companies.  You'd think both Nintendo and Microsoft would want Steve from Minecraft because he's way more iconic then Banjo-Kazooie.  Of course maybe Microsoft was asking for too much money for Steve and Sakurai was like "How much for Banjo then?"

Then again it could be a more emotional choice for Sakurai as well.  Iwata has said he wished Nintendo would have tried to get the Banjo-Kazooie franchise during the Rare sale, and since Iwata and Sakurai were good friends he would know this.  This could be Sakurai's tribute to Iwata by fulfilling his wish to bring Banjo home to Nintendo for this one event.   :'(


And if it's fake whoever made it certainly deserves credit for going through a lot of effort to make it.  That's takes some real dedicated to do that.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on October 24, 2018, 09:00:53 PM
It’s fake. Something about the shadows.

Unrelated: I wish Pokémon Trainer was a fighter as in the actual trainer himself/herself.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Shaymin on October 24, 2018, 09:33:49 PM
#TeamFake, and also #TeamPissedAtAbuseOfTheOnlyGoodChristmasSpecial
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on October 24, 2018, 10:04:55 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/014/609/dfg1.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on October 25, 2018, 10:43:07 AM
I want this to be an elaborate ruse orchestrated by Sakurai himself.

Microsoft should be jumping at the chance of Nintendo approaching it to include Microsoft owned IP. Free advertising and zero work. Make it part of a larger licensing agreement to get Rare games on Nintendo 64 Classic Edition.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Sarail on October 25, 2018, 10:44:53 AM
It's real. It's totally real.

Except for Skull Kid. Where's Skull Kid?!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: lolmonade on October 25, 2018, 01:33:10 PM
If my internet memory serves me, these were the list of characters mentioned in a Smash "leak" a year or so back.  I'd be fine with it if true, but blurry images and narrative weaving aren't enough for me to buy stock in it. 

Mach Rider is the perfect kind of weird, "why on earth this" choice for Smash Bros though.  Almost seems a little too out there, compared to the rest of the cast. 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Mop it up on October 25, 2018, 04:11:50 PM
Considering that fan-requested faves like Ridley and Simon are already in the game, I can see the focus to continue to be on fan faves, and these choices as individuals seem realistic enough.

That said, the biggest thing which makes me say "fake" is the lack of a new Pokémon rep. While I s'pose anything's possible, that just seems unlikely to me.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on October 25, 2018, 10:05:44 PM
That said, the biggest thing which makes me say "fake" is the lack of a new Pokémon rep. While I s'pose anything's possible, that just seems unlikely to me.

This is what gives me the biggest amount of doubt as well.  Every Smash has included some new Pokemon.  I vaguely remember hearing that there was a "new Pokemon" slot for Smash 4 that was waiting until all the new designs were ready.  With a gen that's already out and one that's coming, I would think they'd add something (but it is clearly too soon to add a gen 8 Pokemon.

And Mach Rider totally fits with Game&Watch/ROB/Duck Hunt as a character, so that's believable, even if it wasn't previously high on the speculation list.  The other characters seemed [too safe, but they did skip Dixie Kong, another one high on the speculation list.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on October 25, 2018, 11:36:26 PM
Pokemon fans get Pokemon Trainer and Pichu again, they can sit on their seven reps. Besides, all of the Gen VII Pokemon are awful.

All of them.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on October 25, 2018, 11:48:37 PM
Bite your tongue, sir!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on October 26, 2018, 12:03:19 AM
That said, the biggest thing which makes me say "fake" is the lack of a new Pokémon rep. While I s'pose anything's possible, that just seems unlikely to me.

This is what gives me the biggest amount of doubt as well.  Every Smash has included some new Pokemon.  I vaguely remember hearing that there was a "new Pokemon" slot for Smash 4 that was waiting until all the new designs were ready.  With a gen that's already out and one that's coming, I would think they'd add something (but it is clearly too soon to add a gen 8 Pokemon.

The one thing I could see justifying a lack of new Pokemon is because Pichu, Squirtle and Ivysaur are returning, Sakurai might feel Pokemon already has enough characters and wanted to focus resources elsewhere this time.  I mean, the only new Mario character in this game is a clone with Daisy and Zelda doesn't have any new characters.  Of course if Geno gets in it would be from Mario but he's kind of a special case and in no way someone from the main series like Toad or Waluigi who would normally have been next in line.

So far the unique new characters we got are from either franchises not represented in Smash Bros, (Splatoon and Castlevania) franchises that didn't have any new characters added in Smash 4, (Donkey Kong and Metroid) or a character from a series that was added in the last game and only had one rep (Animal Crossing).  So if Sakurai is trying to expand the variety in series represented in Smash Bros the rumored list would certainly fit the list and explain the lack of characters from the more popular Nintendo franchises in Smash Bros.


Either way, I imagine we only need to wait about 2 more weeks before the new Direct happens.  We're almost a month away from release and there's still a major game mode that hasn't been revealed yet.  Especially with the bundle coming in November it makes sense for a major event to happen soon, so we shouldn't have much longer to wait.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 26, 2018, 07:36:43 AM
It's totally real. If it were fake, it would be one of the most elaborate fake leaks of all time.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on October 26, 2018, 08:47:17 AM
I don’t think overrepresentation is a concern. Sakurai added Chrom despite the roster having 37 Fire Emblem characters. Pokémon is a much larger series. I’d be shocked if it didn’t get a new fighter. I feel like Sakurai would have to look at the latest generation and say, “These are all terrible.”

We’ve seen some elaborate hoaxes. Rayman in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS was pretty good. The fake NX of a 3D printed Nintendo patent which included a Swedish keyboard in the pic and a reflection of a tree outside of Massive Entertainment, developer of “The Division,” was legendary. The guy who created it even posted in the neogaf thread. Point being, we live in an age where people will go miles out of their way to create these fakes. What’s even real anymore? I give up. We’re probably all living in a simulation.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on October 26, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
Pokemon is in a bit of a resurgence too lately.  I think with the franchise looking to expand their base, they'd want a new Pokemon in the game.  The only thing that mucks it up is that Gen7 is (almost) over and Smash isn't the place to introduce a Gen8, so the timing is kind of awkward.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Mop it up on October 26, 2018, 05:57:30 PM
There's nothing that people won't fake.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on October 26, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
Surprised nobody is talking about this here since it's the new hotness.

I guess because I instantly dismissed it as fake. If it is real then why couldn't it be shown or captured in a non-blurry photo? Any part of it? It's blurry to hide the editing manipulation the person did of the image. I swear the blurry image of Geno is just lifted from the SMRPG manual of him. Do. Not. Believe.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on October 26, 2018, 07:27:34 PM
I don’t think overrepresentation is a concern. Sakurai added Chrom despite the roster having 37 Fire Emblem characters. Pokémon is a much larger series. I’d be shocked if it didn’t get a new fighter. I feel like Sakurai would have to look at the latest generation and say, “These are all terrible.”
That’s EXACTLY what he said.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: MagicCow64 on October 26, 2018, 08:25:04 PM
I just scanned through the current state of this leak, and I think I'm coming down on it being fake. The changes in the background really seem to cast doubt on it, and most of the stuff arguing that it's real is just "There's no way someone would put that much effort into this!"

I think it's debatable how much effort it would actually take, but even if it was a ton, that's not really an argument. Some people also seem very impressed that this supposedly came from a Snapchat video instead of 4Chan, but . . . everyone knows about it because it was posted to forums with the claim that it came from a Snapchat video.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: pokepal148 on October 26, 2018, 11:34:05 PM
Pokemon is in a bit of a resurgence too lately.  I think with the franchise looking to expand their base, they'd want a new Pokemon in the game.  The only thing that mucks it up is that Gen7 is (almost) over and Smash isn't the place to introduce a Gen8, so the timing is kind of awkward.

They have that event pokemon, Zeraora that they just started handing out that could probably be easily made into an echo fighter for Lucario or something.

It's still a gen 7 pokemon but it just became officially available this year so it could easily fit the new pokemon slot without dipping into gen 8.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Discord.RSS on October 27, 2018, 11:18:04 AM
It did get me to check out Mach Rider and vaguely consider getting it on virtual console though, so it works as Nintendo marketing either way. Could work as a Captain Falcon esque character but with a blaster instead of Falcon Punch, maybe? Although that would also mean they'd finally have to give Ganondorf an actual moveset.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on October 27, 2018, 11:51:36 AM
No Pokemon will EVER make it into Smash Bros. again as long as I live and breathe

BUT BRING ON THEM FIRE EMBLEM LORDS. ONLY THE ONES THAT USE SWORDS, OF COURSE
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on October 31, 2018, 02:20:43 PM
I finally got my predictions made for the forum prediction challenge I came up with. Ended up posting all my reasonings and thoughts about my picks on Pietriots  which you can read here although I suppose I could have used the forum posts it would have taken to write it out here. (https://pietriots.com/2018/11/01/last-minute-smash-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-29116)

Here's the quick rundown of my answers:


1. How many fighters will Ultimate end up having at release? Give me your number either based on unique fighters or total number of fighters including echo characters.

Going with 71 unique fighters but 79 altogether with echoes. This will result in 75 actual character select squares on the Character Select Screen due to Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters each having a single square.

Quote
2. Who are the remaining characters you think will be announced? Don't forget to mention if you think they will be unique or echo.

Street Fighter Ken - Echo
Shadow The Hedgehog - Echo
Incineroar - Unique
Isaac - Unique
Banjo-Kazooie - Unique

Quote
3. If the rumor is correct, then what do you think the final five stages yet to be shown will be?

Spiral Mountain - Banjo Kazooie
Mercury Lighthouse - Golden Sun
Mount Lanakila - Pokemon Sun/Moon
New Los Angeles - Xenoblade Chronicles X
Rhythm Heaven Mix - Rhythm Heaven

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4. If the secret mode is called Spirits after all, what do you think the mode will contain. Shoot for 5 details.

1. Spirits Mode will be a bit like Adventure Mode in Melee. There will be a linear progression that you make and certain bosses that you will face in the same order.

2. However, you can risk / adjust how difficult you want the mode to be. Lower side of the scale means fewer bosses and stages you have to play and battle on. Higher end of the scale means more bosses and more random battle stages to play through.

3. Other fighters are possessed or under the influence of an evil entity. As you play, you can restore/revive other fighters and have them join your team a bit like Pokemon by weakening their stats to a point to try and capture them / make them join your party. The teammates will either be a CPU or another player if playing the mode with a friend.

4. At the end of the mode, your team will face a final random challenge (like Smash Run) and the teammates that survive it will then be unlocked and added to the roster.

5. Amiibo can be used to unlock characters and their stats / progress will be represented when on your team playing the mode.



Quote
5. If there is any other predication you want to make about the game, this is your chance for extra credit. Go for it!


Steve from Minecraft is an Assist Trophy
Geno from SMRPG is an Assist Trophy
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 12:30:38 AM
The only predictions I feel good about is Ken and Shadow as Echo's and Geno being the final character shown at the end of the Direct.  I expect a new Pokemon which the rumors have pointed toward Incineroar so we'll see if that's the Pokemon.  I expect one more unique character who'd I'd like to be Elma, but wouldn't be surprised if it's someone else.

So I'm just keeping my expectations at 5 more characters so I can maybe be surprised if there's more.  I do think the hidden mode is an Adventure mode with Boss fights but whether it's more like Melee Adventure, Brawl's SSE or Smash Run is what I don't know and can't wait to see.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 01, 2018, 10:43:22 AM
Well, looks like we were mostly wrong, especially about Geno.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 10:46:03 AM
Well, looks like we were mostly wrong, especially about Geno.

He wasn't shown as an Assist Trophy.

DLC baby here we go. 8)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: MagicCow64 on November 01, 2018, 10:46:45 AM
That was a good laugh with finishing up the roster right away with Ken and the new Pokemon. I figured there was probably another surprise character for the end, and there was, and it was a piranha plant.

So I believe with the five DLC characters that brings the final total to 80? I guess I was right about being skeptical they could go higher than that . . .
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 10:53:33 AM
The playable Pirahna Plant was genius.  I thought Geno would be considered this games WTF character because of how obscure he is but if he does get in he has a pretty normal moveset that would work for a fighting game.  Pirahna Plant on the other hand fits the bill more better since who ever thought he'd make something like that playable?

To bad he's not in the base game but being added for free later is probably going to push be to buy the digital version now since the physical version is already going to be incomplete a decade from now so might as well go digital with all the DLC.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on November 01, 2018, 10:55:30 AM
That was weirdly anti-climactic. I kind of feel like Sakurai should have reversed the character announcement order with the Super Smash Bros. Direct in August. Maybe he didn’t want Simon Belmont and King K. Rool to distract from that really long explanation of Spirits.

I couldn’t really tell what Spirits was at first. I guess “World of Light” is the name of Adventure Mode.

I’m not less excited about the game. My reaction to the announcements were just, “Oh.”
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 11:15:17 AM
That was weirdly anti-climactic. I kind of feel like Sakurai should have reversed the character announcement order with the Super Smash Bros. Direct in August. Maybe he didn’t want Simon Belmont and King K. Rool to distract from that really long explanation of Spirits.

I couldn’t really tell what Spirits was at first. I guess “World of Light” is the name of Adventure Mode.

I’m not less excited about the game. My reaction to the announcements were just, “Oh.”

Yeah seeing Simon and K Rool today would have had a bigger impact then Ken and Incinoroar.  He kind of set expectation pretty high and failed to deliver.

I'm kind of surprised Sakurai only revealed the Adventure mode at the very end.  I imagine some of the Dracula and Monster Hunter boss footage from the last Direct is in this mode and we saw that one boss from Brawl in as well so there are boss fight in it, as well as story cut scenes.  So it looks pretty substantail in terms of content to show at the end.

I guess he wants it to be a surprise to players which is nice but kind of weird to devote so much time on how the spirits where are just modified Stickers and Equipment from the last 2 Smash Bros games instead of focusing on the mode they'll play a big part of.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Shaymin on November 01, 2018, 11:24:12 AM
btw, Geno was spotted at one point as a Spirit equipped to Shulk.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's out for good; we don't know if Spirits are like Assist Trophies where they're guaranteed to be out.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 11:33:16 AM
btw, Geno was spotted at one point as a Spirit equipped to Shulk.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's out for good; we don't know if Spirits are like Assist Trophies where they're guaranteed to be out.

Yeah in the last Smash Bros, Lucas had a normal trophy in the base game so many thought that ruled him out as coming back even as DLC.  Same with other potential DLC fighters, I wouldn't use there Spirit imagines as a reason to think they don't have a chance since they're just stat upgrades.  Especially when some of these characters Smash Bros designs could look different then what their Spirit pictures show right now.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Stratos on November 01, 2018, 12:47:15 PM
I'm just cruelly relishing in the reveal of Issac as an assist trophy. That's just rubbing salt in the wound of Golden Sun fans.

If I had to predict the "Final Five", I think that Waluigi has a good chance of making it in because of the fierce noise fans have been making about him and how Reggie informed us that Sakurai was made aware of the fan demand (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/06/sakurai_is_well_aware_that_you_want_waluigi_in_smash_bros_ultimate_says_reggie) for him in the game.

For the other's, I would imagine Captain Toad is a strong contender. Geno and Mach Rider also scored high.

If Nintendo does get Microsoft on board, I could see both Minecraft Steve and Banjo-Kazooie making it in.

For me, I personally hope the five are Geno, Waluigi, Cranky Kong, Banjo-Kazooie, and Tingle.

Other practical pick would be Edelgard from the upcoming Switch Fire Emblem (she wields an axe, so hopefully we get a Hector echo blending her and Ike's play style).

In terms of being able to feel "everyone is here" I think Waluigi and Toad/Captain Toad need to be included. This was listed as full new fighters, but no mention of future echo fighters. Captain Toad/Toadette could be a fun Ice Climbers echo fighter.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Arbok on November 01, 2018, 01:46:14 PM
Is there any indication that "World of Light” will be co-op? My gf is not competitive, and, oddly, subspace emissary is her fondest memory of the Smash series for the co-op nature.

Kind of hoping that this new mode will be co-op, although haven't seen any mention of it.

As for the remaining 5 DLC characters, the series is pretty stacked as is. Most of the characters I wanted are in now, which is amazing to say. They have done a great job filling the roster. That said, it would be nice if we did see one character to represent Advance Wars. Feels like the last hole. Granted, the series hasn't been around since the DS days, but was pretty popular at one time.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on November 01, 2018, 02:11:44 PM
If were speculating:

1. Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles x)
2. Medusa (Kid Icarus)
3. Siegfried/Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
4. Banjo and Kazooie (Banjo-Kazooie)
5. Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes)

It would be cool if there was a “Fighter Pass 2” in 2020. I wouldn’t bet on it though.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Mop it up on November 01, 2018, 02:55:06 PM
No joke, Piranha Plant is the best newcomer for me. I'll leave it up to you to decide if that means I like the plant that much, or am just that uninterested in the rest of the lot. Maybe some of both. But Mario is my fave series and I want to see just about every character in Smash, hee hee. I wonder if any of the DLC characters will be Mario reps, but probably not.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 01, 2018, 02:59:21 PM
Were they clear on whether or not Piranha Plant was one of the 5 DLC characters? Because they described the character as free for a limited time, so part of me assumed it was one of the five that you can get free, but that wouldn't make sense since it would throw the pricing on the pass out of wack.

The playable Pirahna Plant was genius.  I thought Geno would be considered this games WTF character because of how obscure he is but if he does get in he has a pretty normal moveset that would work for a fighting game.  Pirahna Plant on the other hand fits the bill more better since who ever thought he'd make something like that playable?

To be honest, Geno is in such high demand from fans that he couldn't be a WTF character.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Mop it up on November 01, 2018, 03:00:39 PM
It looks like Pirahna Plant is not one of the five paid DLC characters in the pass. It also seems to be unclear if it can be purchased later.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Arbok on November 01, 2018, 05:42:13 PM
It looks like Pirahna Plant is not one of the five paid DLC characters in the pass. It also seems to be unclear if it can be purchased later.

Mewtwo was "free" to those who got the Wii U and 3DS versions of Smash Bros last generation, but was later sold as DLC. I'm gonna guess that the Pirahna Plant works the same way, and it's free if you pre-order but can be purchased later.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Soren on November 01, 2018, 08:28:42 PM
I like Piranha Plant as a playable character. Honestly while there's a lot of fan favorites among the new characters announced there weren't many of the that I actually wanted to play. Having the Inklings, Isabelle and now Piranha Plant means there's something new to really look forward to.

Also it means I have something like 8-10 characters I want to main. I need to make a list.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Shaymin on November 01, 2018, 08:49:01 PM
My list of DLC possibilities has Edelgard and a Gen VIII Pokemon written in permanent Sharpie. So that basically leaves three open slots.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 01, 2018, 09:22:15 PM
It looks like Pirahna Plant is not one of the five paid DLC characters in the pass. It also seems to be unclear if it can be purchased later.

So, that's six post-launch characters total? Nice. 8)

I'm still pulling for Travis Touchdown.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on November 01, 2018, 09:31:16 PM
My list of DLC possibilities has Edelgard and a Gen VIII Pokemon written in permanent Sharpie. So that basically leaves three open slots.
How can you want the two most over-represented series in this game to get more characters?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Shaymin on November 01, 2018, 11:35:13 PM
I never said I wanted them - though if we get a Fire Emblem character who's NOT a sword or tome/sword user, that'd be cool.

Nintendo's marketing department and Sakurai will think differently.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 01, 2018, 11:56:57 PM
One thing to remember about DLC is Sakurai said Rex from Xenoblade 2 couldn't be playable because they decided the characters before they even knew about that game.  The same with Arms since Spring Man is an Assist Trophy.

Because of this I'll guess these 5 for now as DLC

Elma: I think Elma has a very good chance of being a DLC character.  Does anyone else find it rather strange not a single character from Xenoblade X was an Assist trophy and no Mii customs for any of them either?  I mean with Shulk in the game Xenoblade is a represented franchise and X was the most recent when Sakurai started development on this game.

Geno:  I'm also pretty confidence Geno is getting in still as well.  Other requested fan favorites like Skull Kid and Isaac were shown as Assist Trophies today but Geno is the one highly requested character not to get an Assist Trophy and his Mii custom wasn't shown in the Direct either.

Next Gen Pokemon:  And of course the next Gen VIII Pokemon is almost guaranteed.  That's be the Corrin of this Smash Bros to advertise the newest game.

Those are the 3 characters I'd be willing to bet my house on.  The other 2 though I'm not to sure but I can give some guesses.

Tails:  Now that Shadow has been shown to still be an Assist, that means both Knuckles and Shadow are Assist Trophies.  That's kind of a glaring omission to have those 2 as Assist but not do the same with Sonic's longest partner who's been the second most playable character in that franchise behind Sonic.  The only thing keeping me from being completely confident is I thought Shadow was a lock as an Echo but since that didn't happen I don't know what to guess with this franchise in Smash Bros.  I mean if Tails was a unique character, Shadow still could have been an Echo like Ken.  I wonder if Sakurai doesn't like Shadow or Sega was asking for too much money for a second playable character or a combination of both where Sakurai tried to get Shadow but since Sega was being dicks, didn't care to try harder since he doesn't care for the character.

Waddle Dee:  The Kirby franchises hasn't had a new character since Brawl and Bandanna Dee would be the most requested among that fanbase.  Instead of being limited to a spear moveset which the HAL Kirby games have already done several times, I could see Sakurai just taking Waddle Dee and combining all the different abilities it's had like he's doing with Piranha Plant.  It'll use the spear on some attacks but also have Parasol and Beam for some as well and maybe even summon the mine cart from Kirby 64 has a Side B like Wario.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Evan_B on November 02, 2018, 12:35:21 AM
Y’all are so boring. It doesn’t matter anyway, since the roster has already been leaked:

1) Abraham Lincoln
2) Tsubasa Oribe
3) Qbert
4) Wonder Red
5) 900 Koroks

In all seriousness though, saying Rex can’t make it because they had finished planning and then turning around and saying Fire Emblem and Pokemon are getting future reps when they are just as, if not more recent, is silly.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 02, 2018, 01:34:05 AM
In all seriousness though, saying Rex can’t make it because they had finished planning and then turning around and saying Fire Emblem and Pokemon are getting future reps when they are just as, if not more recent, is silly.

I didn't say a new Fire Emblem character would get in but Pokemon is kind of a special case.  Since the franchises is so huge Sakurai was given insider info when X/Y was still in development for the last Smash and he picked Greninja because he liked his design and moveset potential the best.  I imagine he probably planned on a new generation coming soon after launch and one of the spot's was for Gen VIII even if they hadn't been revealed yet.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Pokemon rep is the last one released in February 2020 because of this, similar to Corrin last time.

I don't see a new Fire Emblem character for several reasons.  The biggest is when Corrin got in, Awakening had just made the series huge and so Sakurai and Nintendo had a reason to try and make sure the sequel was just as big and Awakening wasn't a fluke.  Now that Fates and Heroes were also a huge success the series doesn't need Smash Bros to help sell it anymore.  Plus Corrin offered a very unique moveset with the dragon abilities which would have made him very tempting for Sakurai even if Fire Emblem was already over represented.  The new main Edelgard doesn't really have a unique gimmick to really justify putting him in over other fan favorites which has kind of been the big selling point of this Smash Bros.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 02, 2018, 08:52:43 AM
They should change the name to:
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Disappointment with the Last Direct
Honestly that was a bad decision to save for the end. There was no reason to save those 3 for the final reveal...should have saved King K. Cool and/or Ridley for this one.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: pokepal148 on November 02, 2018, 01:47:27 PM
Y’all are so boring. It doesn’t matter anyway, since the roster has already been leaked:

1) Abraham Lincoln from Conduit 2
2) Bubsy
3) Qbert
4) Federation Force Marine
5) 900 Koroks

FTFY
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Discord.RSS on November 03, 2018, 08:59:38 AM
The Direct worked for me, never really believed we'd get 5 more characters so late in development. The World of Light stuff looks super fun to me, I'm not sure I fully understand the Spirits mode but eh we'll see. Piranha Plant is exactly the type of Smash lunacy I want, and seeing characters from Golden Sun, Shantae, Fatal Frame and more show up in Spirits/assist trophy forms is cool too.

Most of all the Direct left me wanting to play Smash immediately, so great marketing imo.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Stogi on November 05, 2018, 02:09:06 PM
So Sakurai has now murdered the entire cast but Kirby. I guess I'm okay with that.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: pokepal148 on November 05, 2018, 04:30:17 PM
So Sakurai has now murdered the entire cast but Kirby. I guess I'm okay with that.

This image I posted in the smash memes thread is oddly prophetic.

(https://woodenplankstudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/web-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Discord.RSS on November 06, 2018, 06:18:52 PM
In the meantime I've picked Smash 4 back up again. Finally had the idea to turn brightness and sharpness all the way down on the TV; the game kept giving me headaches before and I'm still not sure what causes them exactly, but this helps a bit.

Had a lot of fun playing last night. Setting home run records, quickly found online matches, ran through the Classic mode a few times. I still feel in some regards it was a bit of a step back from Brawl, what with the reduced single player, even fewer Break the Targets levels and such. But some of the Event Matches are still pretty creative, and the Crazy Hand Orders mode is also pretty neat.

Depending on how Smash Ultimate turns out, I think Smash 4's biggest contribution to the series (besides the transition to HD and huge roster expansion), might be how it handles risk and reward. The lifted difficulty wager from Kid Icarus Uprising is an obvious one, but the Crazy Hand Orders mode basically dares you to fight another round quickly, receive more damage to boost your HP and then go all-out in the Crazy Hand fight.

It's a bummer the Smash Tour boardgame mode never caught on, because it does similar things. Do you gamble by specialising in certain traits, hoping they pay off in the fights? Do you spread stat boosts across attributes? It's a pretty direct evolution from Kirby Air Ride's city trial mode of course, which also never caught on...

Sorry, just some rambling observations everyone else made 4 years ago. Smash is pretty great!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: pokepal148 on November 06, 2018, 07:02:09 PM
Smash Run was basically pretty much everything that made Smash Tour good wrapped around a good game mode.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 06, 2018, 07:31:24 PM
News!

(https://i.imgur.com/MZWOQTW.png) (https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282)

(https://i.imgur.com/sJvaa13.png) (https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958663316615168)

(edit: fixed images)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Adrock on November 06, 2018, 08:18:14 PM
Selection made entirely by Nintendo, hmm?

One of the DLC fighters is Banjo-Kazooie to go along with their inclusion in the Nintendo 64 Classic Edition.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 06, 2018, 10:27:34 PM
Well I'm crossing Geno off the list then if it's Nintendo who decided all the DLC choices.  Unless they're planning on announcing a remake of Mario RPG I don't see why they'd care for him.

Elma could still be a possibility since Xenoblade X did end in a cliffhanger so that game might get a sequel someday as well as the original might get a Switch port.

A Gen VIII Pokemon choice is probably guaranteed then to go along with that game.

Kirby has a good chance of getting a pick then.  Nintendo loves to push Kirby so I can see them pushing for another rep.  I know HAL has been pushing Bandanna Dee so him or a Waddle Dee like I predicted earlier could have a good chance then.

Speaking of third party choices, I think Rayman or the Rabbids could have a chance now.  I mean, Nintendo and Ubisoft have been pretty close recently and Ubisoft wanted Rayman in the last Smash Bros.  If Nintendo is the one making the selection, I could see them recommending Rayman on Ubisoft's behalf.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 07, 2018, 12:02:32 AM
I think a new, unannounced Pokemon makes sense.  It's likely the designs are finalized, so Sakurai would have had time to pick.  Or, if he's just obligated to keep the placeholder, the last of the DLC isn't promised until February of 2020, so there's time.

Bandana Waddle Dee makes a lot of sense too.  It'd be a cool way to incorporate more things from the most recent Kirby games.

The only problem with those picks is that the franchises are already represented with stages and music, which are just as big a part of the bundles as the characters themselves.  Not that there couldn't be more (i.e., Poke Floats Redux), but I think they might go for something with less current representation.

There's a Spring-Man assist trophy and a Ribbon-Girl mii costume, but there's no ARMS stage.  So, I'm gonna keep guessing Min Min, but I think Max Brass may also have a shot.  I also think Nintendo would want more ARMS representation, but maybe Sakurai didn't quite have the time to fully implement a character.

Banjo-Kazooie makes sense if there's some reaching across the aisle.  MS seems more than willing and they can give Nintendo something they reasonably should want. 

Those are the "safest" picks I can think of.  I'm sure they'll throw out some more surprises. 

Others I have hopes for: Travis Touchdown, since Nintendo has Travis Strikes Again: No More Heroes on the horizon.  Also, Professor Layton could still be in this.  Not really sure if either franchise has representation.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: ShyGuy on November 11, 2018, 09:52:45 PM
Cool new Smash Bros Ultimate Trailer, the Banner comes to life!

https://youtu.be/qKLSpdJPEaA
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 11, 2018, 10:04:42 PM
It also syncs to Queen's Don't Stop Me Now.


https://youtu.be/d3aZSpGwDJ4 (https://youtu.be/d3aZSpGwDJ4)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Shaymin on November 12, 2018, 09:12:52 AM
Smash Trailer goes with everything.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 23, 2018, 09:49:03 PM
IT'S HAPPENING!!!!!!

The game has been leaked and datamined.  The entire soundtrack has been leaked, I repeat it's out in the wild and is glorious.

This is now your new national anthem.


**** I've only heard a few tracks so far but damn this is just incredible.  Tracks are all over Youtube if anyone's interested.


Oh yeah there's also Adventure mode spoilers so be careful when looking online people. 


edit after hearing more tracks

Holy ****!!!!


We are not worthy Sakurai, we are not worthy. :'(
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: A Straight Up Trippin' Balls Forum User on November 24, 2018, 02:19:48 AM
*Lowers monocle* Is GPG really 15.5 min long? Only one way to find out.

omfg they added lyrics and i can't stop nah nahing along. this is gonna be a hit at clubs, as  walk-in song for sporting events; it's got brand new life.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on November 24, 2018, 02:58:38 PM
Obviously it's not 15 minutes long. It just loops. Still, glad to hear the full version now after snippet posted on the Smash blog. I really loved that song when it was posted and contemplated making a big post about it when it was first put on the blog but never got around to it. Guess the reason the music has been doled out so slowly is that the number of remixes (new arrangements) is only around 97 or so. Which is still a lot but one always still hopes for more.

Still, if you love DK and particularly DKC2, well, then good news. There are 2 new arrangements based around that game.

Here's Crocodile Cacophony ready to blow your socks off also. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq64OIoyhgo)



Did someone want Snake Chantey in Smash? Well, it's here too with a new arrangement! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gjlD-vMFW0)



And finally a bit more DKC goodness with this arrangement that combines the Island Map and Bonus Stage music into a jazzy calypso track. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYGY56kO7VQ)

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 24, 2018, 11:30:24 PM
Looks like Sakurai wasn't lying when he said he allowed the musicians to choose the songs they wanted.

List of new remixes per series in Ultimate.

Mega Man: 17
Castlevania: 13
Fire Emblem: 10
Zelda: 8
Pokemon: 8
Mario: 6
DK: 5
Animal Crossing: 4
Splatoon: 4
Metroid: 3
F-Zero: 3
Kirby: 2
EarthBound: 2
Pikmin: 2
Metal Gear: 2
Street Fighter: 2
Yoshi: 1


No surprise Mega Man and Castlevania would get the most remixes.  Those two franchises basically raised the bar for music during the 8 bit era and I imagine many of the composers were probably inspired by one or both of these franchises and wanted to take there pick when given the opportunity.

Castlevania is particular is basically treated as music royalty.  Not only are the new remixes incredible, the majority of the direct rips come from either the Judgement or Harmony of Despair version which amazing remixes in their own right as well.  Of course the one negative I have is the version of Tragic Prince is from Harmony of Despair when I find the original from Symphony of the Night to be much better but I can see why Sakurai choose HOD version since it starts with more energy so it'd fit a fighting game better while the original was a slower build before it goes crazy.  Other then that one nit pick, I couldn't be happier with the Castlevania selection and It's going to be hard not spending most of my fights on the Dracula's Castle stage.

Mega Man is right up there but the one negative is the majority of its music is from the Classic series.  Only one remix is from X, and then we get a direct rip of X vs Zero from X5, Zero's theme from the first Megaman Zero and Shooting Star from one of the Star Force games.  I mean the Classic series music is still awesome and many of the new remixes are top notch but it would have been nice to get a little more variety from all the different series like Castlevania got throughout its history.  Still, at least the new remixes are top notch and really show why his original name is Rockman after all.


Seriously, how in the hell is Top Man Stage this fucking awesome?  I mean the original was nice and all but never one of my favorite Mega Man tracks, while this remixes just made it one.

Oh God the We're the Robots remix from MM9.


Goes for almost 3 minutes before it repeats.  You know, I think that's one of the reasons why the composers are knocking it out of the park with this game is because Sakurai removed the rule that all remixes have to be around exactly 2 minutes that Brawl and Smash 4 had.  Most of the remixes in Ultimate are around 2:30 minutes which is probably giving composers more room to go all out with what they want to do.  For a music composer, having even an extra 30 seconds can certainly make a big difference when trying to develop a song.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Mop it up on November 25, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
We're close enough to release that I'm just going to wait for the real thing.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Khushrenada on November 25, 2018, 03:37:32 PM
Plus, Nintendo is sending out copyright claims so a lot of these links are going bye-bye already. Honestly, I'm amazed at how much the music has re-energized me about Smash. My enthusiasm for the game kind of hit a lull after the high of K. Rool being included. No announcement since has been as big. Yet, I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised since the music is what got me into the series and Melee in the first place. It's one of my favorite elements of Smash even though it doesn't always seem to be as highly regarded by others about the games. The focus is usually just on the characters and multiplayer.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: Stratos on November 27, 2018, 12:19:44 PM
Is there a master list somewhere for all of the songs confirmed so far?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: ShyGuy on November 27, 2018, 03:25:45 PM
Time to report this!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Prediction Challenge!
Post by: nickmitch on November 27, 2018, 09:16:29 PM
I think a new, unannounced Pokemon makes sense.  It's likely the designs are finalized, so Sakurai would have had time to pick.  Or, if he's just obligated to keep the placeholder, the last of the DLC isn't promised until February of 2020, so there's time.

Been thinking about this again.  I wondered what the reaction would be if Nintendo picked a Pokemon based on an unreleased design, and the design gets revealed and it isn't popular/as well-liked as hoped.  I'm imagining the Smash DLC would come at the same time as the Gen VII Pokemon game.

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, we're supposed to get a Fire Emblem game in the Spring, right? I wouldn't be surprised if the main character in that was DLC.

New Picks:
-Travis Touchdown
-Gen VIII Pokemon
-Unnamed(?) Fire Emblem Protagonist Edelgard
-Bandanna Waddle Dee
-Min Min
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Stratos on November 28, 2018, 08:07:20 PM
r/Fireemblem is convinced that Edelgard will be one of the DLC picks. She's the gal wielding an axe and magic in the trailer for Three Houses, and she already has a following because of the focus on her in the trailer and her more unique weapons.

(https://i.redd.it/mau5x0msyv311.png)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: pokepal148 on November 28, 2018, 09:19:43 PM
I just want a Monster Hunter representative (Probably the Felynes, there is so much potential for their moveset for Smash) because that means we'll get Monster Hunter music and a stage other than the Forest and Hills theme that's being used for the Rathalos fight which by the way, is probably the weakest track in the entire series but because it's the closest thing Rathalos has to it's own theme music that's the thing that got in.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 28, 2018, 09:43:35 PM
The only way I would want a Fire Emblem character is if it isn't a sword fighter.  I wish they would have done Fire Emblem differently.  I think they should have only had like 3 FE characters representing a Sword, Spear, and Axe design with very slight bonuses to attacking the other character classes.  The fact that such a simple idea escaped them and we have so many Fire Emblem characters makes me sad. 

Now, I guess for DLC I would like to see Ribbon Girl...and I dunno who else honestly.  Maybe someone from Custom Robo, or Advance Wars, or F-Zero just get a rival for Captain Falcon.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shaymin on November 28, 2018, 11:42:54 PM
If it *is* or *isn't* a sword fighter? Just checking.

(And yeah, when I Sharpied in a Three Houses character it was Edelgard, we have enough My Units already)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 28, 2018, 11:50:01 PM
After the music leaks, I'm convinced a Kirby character is likely DLC.  Only 2 new remixes for the Kirby series is a rather glaring omission to me when Kirby is one of the most popular and prolific series in Smash Bros and is also famous for its music as well.  Even with the composers getting to choose which songs they want I find it hard to imagine only 2 composers wanted to remix music from Kirby.

I also think Elma could still be very likely as well.  Not a single song from Xenoblade X is in the game while Xenoblade 2 got a few direct rips.  So not only does a popular character like Elma not even become an Assist Trophy, but not a single song from her game is in the game either?

So yeah, a lack of music in both cases does make you wonder if something is being held back for both characters reveals.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 29, 2018, 12:02:24 AM
If it *is* or *isn't* a sword fighter? Just checking.

(And yeah, when I Sharpied in a Three Houses character it was Edelgard, we have enough My Units already)

Isn't...Thanks for the catch I edited the post.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on November 29, 2018, 06:21:48 PM
I guess I wasn't following the FE news, lol.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 29, 2018, 07:29:09 PM
My question about the Kirby music.  Are all the other Kirby music from The Wii U game already represented?  Because you know it could mean that there was just already a lot of Kirby music in the game.  And Kirby music isn't the highlight of Nintendo games.  I just honestly don't think Kirby needs another representation.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on November 30, 2018, 10:35:29 PM
My question about the Kirby music.  Are all the other Kirby music from The Wii U game already represented?  Because you know it could mean that there was just already a lot of Kirby music in the game.  And Kirby music isn't the highlight of Nintendo games.  I just honestly don't think Kirby needs another representation.

All previous Kirby remixes are still in the game but that doesn't mean anything when the other franchises kept all there remixed music from previous games as well, except for Yoshi which removed the Woolly World remix but kept the original rip for some strange reason.

But this is a series where now Metroid has 4 reps and Fire Emblem has 7.  Kirby is more popular then both franchises and yet had the least amount of new content added into the base game of Ultimate.  Especially when there were 7 different Kirby related games released on the 3DS, which will technically be 8 since the enhanced port of Epic Yarn comes out next year.

For a franchise that's as popular and prolific as Kirby, it does seem rather suspicious it's be that low, like they're holding something back.  Remember the DLC characters are choices Nintendo sent to Sakurai, and considering how important Kirby is to Nintendo, I'd imagine they'd have a request for at least someone Kirby related.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 01, 2018, 03:24:26 PM
I bought the game yesterday on the eShop in order to have it pre-loaded and ready at launch, and I already got the email with my code for Piranha Plant .
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: pokepal148 on December 02, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
My question about the Kirby music.  Are all the other Kirby music from The Wii U game already represented?  Because you know it could mean that there was just already a lot of Kirby music in the game.  And Kirby music isn't the highlight of Nintendo games.  I just honestly don't think Kirby needs another representation.
To be fair Kirby really struck gold in terms of it's soundtrack with Robobot. If the robot apocalypse comes with more beats like this than I'll take it.


But the biggest issue with Kirby Music is there's something off about the orchestral music in those games.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 02, 2018, 04:33:22 PM
I can't believe the game comes out THIS WEEK!  Time has flown.

Super excited.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Stratos on December 03, 2018, 01:31:31 PM
I'm hosting a Smash launch party, but almost none of my friends are coming. Anyone here free? :P
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 03, 2018, 02:00:33 PM
Are you proposing a sequel to UncleBob's Smash launch party?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Stratos on December 04, 2018, 07:17:49 PM
I was not at that party, but sure. If anyone* is in the area this Sat, PM me and I will share details.

*No bots will be permitted on site
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: lolmonade on December 07, 2018, 12:22:50 AM
So...Joker from Persona 5 the first announced DLC.  I was going to buy in on it anyway. But my group of friends are pretty excited about this.  What a curveball announcement.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 07, 2018, 02:34:36 AM
I understand that announcement is a big deal to a lot of people, and I'm happy for them, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I guess it does really expand the list of possibilities for the remaining four, though.

Anyway, my first impression of the game is really good. It feels great playing with the Joy-Cons, and I say that as someone who's never really felt all that comfortable with any control option for this series. I just played some standard matches and one run through Classic mode, so I've barely even scratched the surface, but I like it a lot so far.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: lolmonade on December 07, 2018, 08:44:18 AM
I understand that announcement is a big deal to a lot of people, and I'm happy for them, but it does absolutely nothing for me. I guess it does really expand the list of possibilities for the remaining four, though.

Anyway, my first impression of the game is really good. It feels great playing with the Joy-Cons, and I say that as someone who's never really felt all that comfortable with any control option for this series. I just played some standard matches and one run through Classic mode, so I've barely even scratched the surface, but I like it a lot so far.

I understand, that's generally how I felt about Incineroar.  A couple of my friends in my chat group who like smash but haven't played Persona 5 felt the same as you.  I'm actually more excited about the potential level and music that'll be included, because that game has some jammin tunes.

Does it generally feel similar to smash 4?  What distinctions do you see?  I'm picking it up at noon, won't be able to play it til the kids are in bed later tonight.



Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on December 07, 2018, 08:54:58 AM
I don’t particularly care for Joker or the Persona series. However, I like having all the characters and was always going to get the Ultimate Fighter Pass.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 07, 2018, 10:20:19 AM
Joker doesn't do it for me either, but I think it's cool there's a Persona character in the game.

Got to play for an hour and a half this morning.  I really like the adventure mode so far.  I've been playing with a GC controller (from the Smash 4 release).  Controls feel good and a little fast.  Need to re-adjust to the GC controller though.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: pokepal148 on December 07, 2018, 01:35:21 PM
Stage Morph is the greatest thing ever.

That said, the game needs to stop making me reselect my fighter after every match.

Also can we get an option to sort stages by series?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on December 07, 2018, 08:17:13 PM
Finally got to play my copy this evening after work, and...man, I'm rusty at Smash.

That said, holy ****...Classic Mode is actually good now that it has character-specific bosses and challenges!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 07, 2018, 10:52:08 PM
I've only been able to play for a few hours but I'm really loving Adventure mode.  It's basically Event mode on steroids which is awesome to me since Event matches were my favorite parts of the previous Smash Bros.  I found Normal mode kind of easy so I switch to Hard mode and have been having a blast since.  Of course I've been making it even harder for myself since you get better rewards for not only playing on Hard but also making sure the Spirit team you have is actually at a disadvantage to your opponents.  This has lead to some matches becoming very frustrating but I do love figuring out a strategy to overcome the match.  It actually creates quite a bit a strategy trying to think of which characters I've unlocked so far are best suited for each match and what spirits I have can help out the best, but not too much since I want my team to still be considered at a disadvantage.

Of course for anyone else that might have started on Easy or Normal but aren't finding it too challenging and wants to play on Hard, you don't need to make a new file to play it, just go to the options menu on the World of Light overworld and you can change the difficulty at anytime.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 08, 2018, 02:59:14 AM
I think I'm starting to get the hang of Inkling, who's the one new character I've really made an effort to try to learn. One of my mains in the last couple games has been Olimar, and she kind of reminds me of him in the way you have to manage her ink like Olimar's Pikmin.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: lolmonade on December 08, 2018, 11:00:46 AM
I think I'm starting to get the hang of Inkling, who's the one new character I've really made an effort to try to learn. One of my mains in the last couple games has been Olimar, and she kind of reminds me of him in the way you have to manage her ink like Olimar's Pikmin.

So, I've barely scratched the surface of character unlocks yet, but I ran across her in the single player, and I LOVE how their ink guns just cover everyone in ink.  My Mario was completely bright orange as the match concluded.  I love the attention to detail in everything, and the game looks great.

For anyone playing through the single player....has there been any cutscenes so far beyond the intro?  I was crossing my fingers that there'd be a healthy dose of fan service videos, but it's been dry in the hour or so I've played up to this point.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on December 08, 2018, 12:52:22 PM
I'm liking the Spirits mode, it's like an extremely souped up version of the old event matches mixed in with the customization features from Smash 4. My only disappointment with it is that there doesn't seem to be a way to play it in co-op.

has there been any cutscenes so far beyond the intro?
I got pretty far in last night and have not yet seen another.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on December 08, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
I'm enjoying the game so far, especially World of Light. That said, I'd forgotten how exhausting it is to play this series, and the tiny left joycon stick isn't helping matters. I'm finding movement more slippery & less precise than I'm used to.

Anyone play this game on a Pro controller? Is the movement smoother with that? Never bothered to get one because I never used my Pro controller on the Wii U.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Soren on December 08, 2018, 10:37:38 PM
Have you tried setting the sensitivity to the lowest setting?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on December 09, 2018, 01:44:42 AM
Have you tried setting the sensitivity to the lowest setting?

No. Didn't know you could do that.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on December 09, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
I don’t believe Daisy says any variation of “Hi, I’m Daisy!” or “Here comes Daisy!” What is even the point?

I’ll have to do more comparisons. I think I’m leaning toward Daisy’s attributes (bias acknowledged). Her up+air kind of sucks, not sure if there’s a sweet spot.

Lucina is still my go-to though I just unlocked all the characters last night. I cheesed it through the go-back-to-Home-menu cheat. I was playing regularly on Friday, unlocking characters as I went along. I unlocked Lucas and all subsequent characters using the method below. It took about an hour.

For those who are interested: Basically, once you finish a Challenger Approaching fight and return to the previous screen (win or lose), quit the game by going to the Home menu then restart the game. Play any Vs. match (could be one stock with player 2 self-destructing) and you should get another Challenger Approaching fight. Rinse, repeat. I believe the Challenger Approaching fights are triggered by time, roughly 10 minutes of actual gameplay (menus don’t count) so if you’re in World of Light for a while, exit the mode and the Challenger Approaching fight should trigger.

I know some people like slowly unlocking characters, viewing them as rewards for playing the game. I don’t. I just like having them available. I don’t particularly care for the other modes. I’m slogging through World of Light just for the music. Once I unlock the rest of the music, I probably won’t touch anything other than regular Vs. and the various options available there.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 09, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
I was wondering how the unlocking worked!  I think I'll try doing the home menu thing because unlocking through World of Light is taking a while, especially when I find characters I've already unlocked elsewhere.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on December 09, 2018, 03:50:00 PM
Can anyone confirm if you can both play with your friends and other random online folks at the same time?  I haven't pulled the trigger on Nintendo Online, and I'm curious of the pitfalls.  Mario Kart makes it possible but boy is it a pain at times.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 10, 2018, 01:32:51 AM
Holy **** Ganondorf is a fucking beast in this game.  Was able to easily do Classic at 9.9 with him and have just been destroying the Spirit battles.  Seriously, his Smash attacks easily KO most opponents even if they're around 50% it's insane.  Anyone having trouble with any Spirit battle should take advantage of cheesing it with Ganondorf now since I wouldn't be surprised if Sakurai hits him with a major nerf in the near future since I'm not sure if Sakurai intended for him to completely break Spirit mode like he does.

It also looks like the day one patch added some music as well.  In the leak from two weeks ago, the remix of Yoshi's Woolly World main theme wasn't in the music rip of the game.  Well imagine my surprise when I played a certain Spirit battle and heard that exact theme.  So yeah, it looks like the songs that were cut actually got put in the game after all.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on December 10, 2018, 08:16:04 AM
Where do you unlock Ganondorf in World of Light?

I’m mostly just playing through on Easy. Only Legendary Spirits are giving me a hard time. M. Bison was unbelievably difficult then I checked the YouTube. Mario using almost exclusively up tilt made this simple. I had to skip Dr. Wily and The Boss. I had no strategy for either.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 10, 2018, 03:23:26 PM
I skipped Dr. Wily too.  Rayman also gave me trouble until I got the Sheriff spirit.  There are a few random spirits that just throw me for a loop from time to time.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 11, 2018, 11:36:28 AM
Where do you unlock Ganondorf in World of Light?

I have not found him on the WoL yet.  But I have been using him to get some nice Spirits on the Spirit Board fights.  Playing on Hard the first time in WoL might not have been the most ideal since I've reached a point where even the most basic fights are kicking my ass.  It's pretty obvious to me now that Hard mode was designed for people with high level Spirit teams to actually have fun while using said broken teams that would normally completely destroy Easy and Normal.  I'm too stubborn to turn down the difficulty so I'm trying to build great teams from the ones I can pick up on the Spirit board before heading back.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: pokepal148 on December 11, 2018, 01:36:25 PM
I got my pokemon trainer in WOL so I'm happy.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on December 11, 2018, 02:56:47 PM
Holy moly Ganondorf is a beast in this game.  Was able to easily do Classic at 9.9 with him and have just been destroying the Spirit battles.  Seriously, his Smash attacks easily KO most opponents even if they're around 50% it's insane.
Aren't the opponents in Classic weaker than normal? They certainly feel like they are.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on December 11, 2018, 06:25:57 PM
The fact that you removed the bad-language words from Luigi Dude’s post should not go unappreciated.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 11, 2018, 08:17:49 PM
The spirit battle where you fight Ganondorf in a stamina battle where he has a beam sword was pretty tough, now that I think about it.  The beam sword gives him so much range, and just on smash attack from his sword was about enough for a kill.  Helped to go in with a character with a projectile attack.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 12, 2018, 12:21:57 AM
Aren't the opponents in Classic weaker than normal? They certainly feel like they are.

Even then he still got the meter up to 9.9 easily on my first try something none of the other characters I played as so far were able to do.  Plus the Level 9's in multiplayer Smash and more advanced Spirit battles can go down pretty fast with Ganondorf.  I mean Ike and King Dedede were pretty good at taking out harder opponents in Brawl and For as well, but didn't feel this dominate. 

Giving him a sword really was a game changer to me since he now has some great longer reaching attacks that give me more options, especially his Forward Special that can punish opponents that shield against the sword and the temporary stun allows for another sword Smash which the wider reach makes it more likely to hit if they start to get away.  Combined with the fact he's faster now as well has moved him from a character I would use from time to time to one of my new favorites.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: lolmonade on December 12, 2018, 09:05:16 AM
I can't pinpoint what it is about World of Light that's drawing me in so much.  Probably the sum of its parts -varied match types, an interesting map to traverse, how each spirit battle has a ruleset and enemy choice meant to reference back to that character, the spirits acting as attribute modifiers for yourself and the ability to level up those spirts.  There's enough of a carrot there for me to keep going and dumping most of my time in Smash so far here.

That said, I'm disappointed that I haven't seen any cutscenes since the opening.  I wasn't necessarily expecting Subspace Emissary levels, but a small drip feed of them every once in a while would be nice.  There's a video section in the menu, but it's literally just the world of light intro and the game intro...

I've maybe played two online matches.  What's up with the set-up?  You can create your own rule-set?  How do they queue people together if you make your own?  I'm surprised they didn't mimic the "for fun"/"for glory" set-up from Wii U.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on December 12, 2018, 01:26:58 PM
Can anyone confirm if you can both play with your friends and other random online folks at the same time?  I haven't pulled the trigger on Nintendo Online, and I'm curious of the pitfalls.  Mario Kart makes it possible but boy is it a pain at times.
Do you mean local friends or online friends? I guess I'll cover both.

With local, you can bring two players online for Quick Play, but you cannot bring more than one player into a Battle Arena.

For online friends, you can join the same battle arena as them, but it's clunky. First, someone must join a public Battle Arena or create one, and then give the arena ID to everyone you want to have join it with you, and then they can join if there's room by searching for that ID.

What's up with the set-up?  You can create your own rule-set?  How do they queue people together if you make your own?  I'm surprised they didn't mimic the "for fun"/"for glory" set-up from Wii U.
Yeah, I was disappointed to see that. You're not guaranteed to get your preferred rules, in fact far from it. You'll most often get whatever ruleset is the most popular, which in my experience has been 4-player FFA stock with no items on flat stages. This really sucks, because I want team matches on normal stages with items, and am also sometimes forced to play 1v1s which are really boring to me. Friend rooms are also more limited than before, as they are missing options such as having CPUs.

They somehow made the online worse than past games, which is really saying something as it was already pretty simplistic before. I'm no idea what they thought was wrong with it, as the setup itself was fine and people seemed content with it. I've seen a lot of complaints about the way this game's online works, so with any luck Nintendo will take note of the feedback and improve things. Most of Nintendo's Switch games have received updates so I'm hoping Smash will get some much-needed updates for things like this and not just balance changes and paid DLC.

The fact that you removed the bad-language words from Luigi Dude’s post should not go unappreciated.
If I were a moderator then that's probably all I'd do. Which is one reason I'm not allowed to be one.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shaymin on December 12, 2018, 10:21:13 PM
That said, I'm disappointed that I haven't seen any cutscenes since the opening.  I wasn't necessarily expecting Subspace Emissary levels, but a small drip feed of them every once in a while would be nice.  There's a video section in the menu, but it's literally just the world of light intro and the game intro...

Can't post cutscenes on Youtube if there aren't any cutscenes.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: GK on December 15, 2018, 12:02:39 AM
Got mine the other day. Still trying to get a feel for the controls as I've been using the Wii Remote with Nunchuck for the last two Smash games. Been going back & forth between the Switch Pro & Joycons in opposite hands to simulate the remote/nunchuck feel(I'm left-handed so the nunchuck was in my right).

I miss shake smashing...  :'(
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on December 15, 2018, 10:02:54 AM
(I'm left-handed so the nunchuck was in my right).
I’m left-handed as well and reading this hurt my heart.

I use the Pro Controller, and this time I decided not to change the button inputs. On Wii U, I made Y (special), B (attack). It really messed me up when I went somewhere and didn’t have a profile. I’m still adjusting.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 16, 2018, 01:57:47 PM
I'm finally getting close to unlocking everyone.  Been playing on and off due to work.  My strategy has been to play World of Light and just back out into the main menu every so often.

Also, World of Light feels a lot different after you unlock a character you main.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on December 17, 2018, 02:36:49 AM
Anyone else been running into a lot of desyncing issues with the right joy-con while playing Smash? Been noticing that a lot lately where I'll go to press a confirmation button in a menu or attack in-game, and the game just won't respond. Then a few seconds later, the buttons will suddenly work. I have to imagine that's a joycon syncing issue that's just exacerbated by how frequently you're hitting buttons in Smash.

I have all the characters unlocked now and am just doing the occasional run in World of Light. Have to admit the game's kind of running out of interesting content quickly now that All Star Mode's just a shadow of its former self & Classic Mode is just randomly interesting now. I'm also finding that I'm knocking out the Challenge Board very quickly now, with most of my remaining unlocks in Online & Adventure. Still incredibly stupid that you can't just use the Hammer on whatever, with the game locking it out on most of the challenges you'd want to use it on. I'm not going to even try to kill 4 Level 9 CPUs with a Meteor Smash in 3 minutes.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: lolmonade on December 17, 2018, 09:10:13 AM
Anyone else been running into a lot of desyncing issues with the right joy-con while playing Smash? Been noticing that a lot lately where I'll go to press a confirmation button in a menu or attack in-game, and the game just won't respond. Then a few seconds later, the buttons will suddenly work. I have to imagine that's a joycon syncing issue that's just exacerbated by how frequently you're hitting buttons in Smash.

No....that's a new one to me.  My Joycons that came with the console are almost completely busted, but that's more because I let my 6 and 4 year olds play with them and they have no sense of moderation when it comes to how hard to push a button....constant drifting left on the joystick, at a loss of what to do about it.


I haven't unlocked all the characters or beaten World of Light yet, but I've definitely slowed down a bit on how feverishly i'd been playing.  I find solo matches vs CPU pretty dull, and I've started hitting matches in World of Light that have just been punishingly difficult.  I'm mostly waiting on some friends to get it for Christmas so some online matches can be set-up.

Also didn't know if anything would be arranged in the forums for game nights.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on December 22, 2018, 07:27:52 PM
I heard about an infinite assist trophy glitch, so naturally my first thought was to...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvD4oHgVsAEsdBA.jpg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvD4uX6VYAEMySP.jpg)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on December 29, 2018, 09:18:36 AM
Where do you unlock Ganondorf in World of Light?

I’m mostly just playing through on Easy. Only Legendary Spirits are giving me a hard time. M. Bison was unbelievably difficult then I checked the YouTube. Mario using almost exclusively up tilt made this simple. I had to skip Dr. Wily and The Boss. I had no strategy for either.

The M. Bison fight reminded me of why I don't like street fighter games, it felt just like playing one! :)  I've been playing WoL on hard and that fight was like playing a vet SF champ.  Especially the spamming of hadoukens, and combos.

The other spirits you listed are intentionally supposed to be hard, esp "The Boss" which if you picked the left branch, you get to way to early to have spirits powerful enough to not take insane damage from their hits.

For those fights, I found it best to revist them later and to try to think of spirit combos that the game does not suggest - as a lot of times you can pick better teams if you have an approach in mind.  The CPU simply suggests very logical matches (strong wind, here is strong wind resist/immune).  The M. Bison match I finally won using I believe a Franklin badge spirit, which nicely reflects the hadoukens, and then spammed my own neutral special with Link.  It took a while before I though of trying that combination.

Another good spirit that the game does not often suggest it "super slow armor" or something like that [it's the polar bear from Ice Climbers]. That makes a lot of legendary or tough 1vs1 fights easier.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on December 29, 2018, 09:29:22 AM
Anyone else been running into a lot of desyncing issues with the right joy-con while playing Smash? Been noticing that a lot lately where I'll go to press a confirmation button in a menu or attack in-game, and the game just won't respond. Then a few seconds later, the buttons will suddenly work. I have to imagine that's a joycon syncing issue that's just exacerbated by how frequently you're hitting buttons in Smash.

Had the same issue with Super Mario Odyssey or any title with the switch and I sent my joycon's in for repair.  If your unit is under waranty you may want to look into it.  The repair seems to have helped.  I think it's an RF shielding issue in the joycon.

It's easy to test, go to the joycon/controller test and start mashing inputs, I could show the drop in responses easily and it was fairly repeatable.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on December 29, 2018, 09:35:27 AM
Can anyone confirm if you can both play with your friends and other random online folks at the same time?  I haven't pulled the trigger on Nintendo Online, and I'm curious of the pitfalls.  Mario Kart makes it possible but boy is it a pain at times.
Do you mean local friends or online friends? I guess I'll cover both.

With local, you can bring two players online for Quick Play, but you cannot bring more than one player into a Battle Arena.

For online friends, you can join the same battle arena as them, but it's clunky. First, someone must join a public Battle Arena or create one, and then give the arena ID to everyone you want to have join it with you, and then they can join if there's room by searching for that ID.

Thanks!

I tried the free trial of Nintendo Online and can confirm the above.  Arenas are quite nice, but the auto search is not working (I cannot seem to search for friends areas even though I know they just created one and gave me the ID).  The other flaw is that arenas drop you out of the match to switch characters and the other folks can just start the match without you.  There should be a better way to handle that.  Oh and as you note, you can have local friends and online friends at the same time.

Otherwise, online play wasn't too bad.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on December 29, 2018, 01:14:30 PM
A Battle Arena hosted by a friend will show under the "Friends' Arenas" option only if they set it to be a friend's only arena. Public arenas created by friends will not show in Friends' Arenas and must be found by entering the ID.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on December 29, 2018, 01:43:30 PM
A Battle Arena hosted by a friend will show under the "Friends' Arenas" option only if they set it to be a friend's only arena. Public arenas created by friends will not show in Friends' Arenas and must be found by entering the ID.

Ah, thanks for that.  I was wondering what the issue was.  That's a shame.  We don't really like 1vs1 matches so we want the possibility of others joining, but it would be nice to be able to quickly match up without having to share the ID out of band.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on December 31, 2018, 01:19:20 AM
Is the Dr Wily fight the one where you fight eight metal Mega Men and then Dr. Mario? I think I used a spirit with the "Metal Killer" ability and one that heals damage with KOs. That really gave me a tough time, but I also used Lucas to absorb damage and recover.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 31, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
For the Dr. Wily fight I used Simon with a spirit that started him with the Franklin Badge.  His Smash attacks have long range and incredibly strong.  The Franklin Badge reflects all of Mega Mans projectile attacks which is the majority of his attacks so I could get within a good distance, then stun them with holy water and hit them with forward smash attacks.

It took a few tries but eventually I was able to take out 6 of them before the Franklin Badge effects wore off.  The last 2 got some hits in but because I was able to perfect the first 6 I had enough stamina to take them out and then Dr Mario was a joke since I was able to stun him right away with holy water and hit him with a fully charged Smash attack that took half his health.  He didn't last much longer after that.

It also helps that on the Skill Tree I had given my characters the permanent Metal Killer ability and upgraded the one that increased Smash Attack power as well.  Those upgrades I'm sure helped give me a nice edge as well.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on January 01, 2019, 04:58:37 PM
Anyone else been running into a lot of desyncing issues with the right joy-con while playing Smash? Been noticing that a lot lately where I'll go to press a confirmation button in a menu or attack in-game, and the game just won't respond. Then a few seconds later, the buttons will suddenly work. I have to imagine that's a joycon syncing issue that's just exacerbated by how frequently you're hitting buttons in Smash.

Had the same issue with Super Mario Odyssey or any title with the switch and I sent my joycon's in for repair.  If your unit is under waranty you may want to look into it.  The repair seems to have helped.  I think it's an RF shielding issue in the joycon.

It's easy to test, go to the joycon/controller test and start mashing inputs, I could show the drop in responses easily and it was fairly repeatable.

Hmm...I'll look into it. Unfortunately, my Switch is just outside the 12 month warranty. It was the model that launched with Mario Odyssey.

Incidentally, I picked up one of those Zelda Green Switch 3rd party Pro controllers a few weeks back, and I'm finding it a LOT more comfortable to play Smash with.

That said, I've been playing other things lately, so I haven't really jumped into Smash for a few weeks now.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 03, 2019, 11:08:58 PM
Well after 46 hours of joy and rage I've finally 100% the World of Light.  Wow, the whole final boss fight was just insanely epic.  I wonder if Sakurai was on a Shin Megami Tensei binge while making this game because that ending seems somewhat inspired by it.

No wonder he picked Joker as one of the DLC characters from the list Nintendo provided. ;D
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on January 04, 2019, 08:14:15 PM
So, the current DLC rumors are:

Ryu makes the most sense to me.  The DQ character sounds like a good cross-promotion with pending Switch version, kinda like with the FE character.  Minecraft Steve was rumored for a while, I think, so it's interesting to see him back "in the fold".  Doom Guy, IDK.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Caterkiller on January 16, 2019, 04:11:53 PM
220 Hours logged in so far. Not just me though, my 3 and 6 year old often play when I'm not there but gadzooks I'm hooked!

Ridley boy... I often catch myself thinking, "wow I'm really playing as Ridley aren't I?" Couple that with those early weekend mornings where the wife and both kids are sleeping which leaves me with a perfect connection and no distractions and holy smokes I am in heaven!

I love how quick people are to dismiss certain characters. Think Chrom before release when everyone saw his recovery lol. Chrom is a beast and I kind of like it that he's over used. I enjoy that people sleep on Ridley because man I am figuring that mutha'flether out! Down Air and Up B recovery, moves that many write off as useless lol. Come play me and watch how I do it in my neighborhood!

When I'm recovering high I will Up B and aim it forward down. Holding up afterwards will cause Ridley to latch on to the edge. If someone tries to contest it they better watch out, that outer space drop kick is a doozy! Do the same move aiming away from the stage but right at the ledge and you can catch people with the same spike but it's even more unexpected! Ridley's feet pass the ledge before he grabs on so it is an awesome spike! Just takes practice.

Down Air man! Make a full jump off the edge and Down air an opponent's low recovery, before Ridley suicides use his last 2 jumps straight up plus Up B and you are back with all the benefits of that move and no landing lag!

Stages like Pokemon Stadium 1/2 and both animal crossing stages have a really high floor for the blast zone. In that case use at least 2 dull jumps before you down air off the side to catch someone, then 1 more jump plus up B to recover. The higher Ridley is the easier it is to use that move off stage and still make it back comfortably.

All 3 of my big boys can pick characters and carry them off the edge! I am loving this game! The balance really is something amazing as well! Such a huge step up from previous games!

Can I get a woah bundy?!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 16, 2019, 09:43:58 PM
220 Hours logged in so far. Not just me though, my 3 and 6 year old often play when I'm not there but gadzooks I'm hooked!

Ridley boy... I often catch myself thinking, "wow I'm really playing as Ridley aren't I?" Couple that with those early weekend mornings where the wife and both kids are sleeping which leaves me with a perfect connection and no distractions and holy smokes I am in heaven!

I love how quick people are to dismiss certain characters. Think Chrom before release when everyone saw his recovery lol. Chrom is a beast and I kind of like it that he's over used. I enjoy that people sleep on Ridley because man I am figuring that mutha'flether out! Down Air and Up B recovery, moves that many write off as useless lol. Come play me and watch how I do it in my neighborhood!

When I'm recovering high I will Up B and aim it forward down. Holding up afterwards will cause Ridley to latch on to the edge. If someone tries to contest it they better watch out, that outer space drop kick is a doozy! Do the same move aiming away from the stage but right at the ledge and you can catch people with the same spike but it's even more unexpected! Ridley's feet pass the ledge before he grabs on so it is an awesome spike! Just takes practice.

Down Air man! Make a full jump off the edge and Down air an opponent's low recovery, before Ridley suicides use his last 2 jumps straight up plus Up B and you are back with all the benefits of that move and no landing lag!

Stages like Pokemon Stadium 1/2 and both animal crossing stages have a really high floor for the blast zone. In that case use at least 2 dull jumps before you down air off the side to catch someone, then 1 more jump plus up B to recover. The higher Ridley is the easier it is to use that move off stage and still make it back comfortably.

Don't forget how insane his Side B is.  Takes the opponent all the way to the edge of the ledge and is a grab so it can't be shielded.  After being thrown off the ledge Ridley's Smash Attack has pretty good range and power to KO players when they try to get back.  Same with his fire balls that can really screw people who are below the edge and are trying to Up B back to it.

The move can also KO most opponents if they're around 100% with some even less.  Very lethal for anyone not paying attention.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on January 18, 2019, 10:42:13 AM
“Destroyed Skyworld” is the best remix in the game. Apparently, it was in Super Smash Bros. For Wii U. I have no idea why I never heard it until Ultimate because based on cursory research, it was available on For Wii U by default.

Lucina is still my first option though I’m really liking Palutena. They made her actually viable in Ultimate by improving her hitboxes. I need to get better with her neutral air. I read Peach (and by extension, Daisy, the better princess) is a combo-fiend. I’m still trying to figure out how to use her. My Squad Strike team of Lucina, Palutena, and Daisy has been derisively referred to as “Team Waifu” by friends.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 20, 2019, 10:35:33 AM
It was surprising satisfying to come up with rule sets in classic smash to make the challenges easier.  I envision the only one I may hammer is the 9.9 intensity.  And perhaps two of the century smashes if I loose patience.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: broodwars on January 20, 2019, 10:36:39 AM
It was surprising satisfying to come up with rule sets in classic smash to make the challenges easier.  I envision the only one I may hammer is the 9.9 intensity.  And perhaps two of the century smashes if I loose patience.

You can't hammer that one, unfortunately. I would have used one on that as well.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 20, 2019, 11:31:15 AM
It was surprising satisfying to come up with rule sets in classic smash to make the challenges easier.  I envision the only one I may hammer is the 9.9 intensity.  And perhaps two of the century smashes if I loose patience.

You can't hammer that one, unfortunately. I would have used one on that as well.

Just use Ganondorf, he makes the Classic on 9.9 very doable.  I did it my first try as him and even posted about it last month because I was surprised how powerful he is.  Seriously, his Forward Smash attack has insane KO power and will end the fights very fast.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 20, 2019, 07:01:14 PM
It was surprising satisfying to come up with rule sets in classic smash to make the challenges easier.  I envision the only one I may hammer is the 9.9 intensity.  And perhaps two of the century smashes if I loose patience.

You can't hammer that one, unfortunately. I would have used one on that as well.

Well that's unexpected... what's the point of them hammers then.

Just use Ganondorf, he makes the Classic on 9.9 very doable.  I did it my first try as him and even posted about it last month because I was surprised how powerful he is.  Seriously, his Forward Smash attack has insane KO power and will end the fights very fast.

I did horribly with Ganondorf when I tried WoL's challenge, perhaps it's just that I'm out of practice and he seems like his jumping is horrible.  That was my easy road to 3 meteor smashes, use Ganondorf on that level with the chasm in the middle and all pitfalls... poor Ganondorf.

I mainly play with Link and can do really well with him but it'll be tough to clear 9.9 I think.  Hmm, I wonder what minimum level you need to start at to get to 9.9 by the time you clear the last stage (assuming no deaths).  Is it 5.0? Or can you reach 9.9 while still starting at 4.5?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 20, 2019, 08:28:34 PM
I mainly play with Link and can do really well with him but it'll be tough to clear 9.9 I think.  Hmm, I wonder what minimum level you need to start at to get to 9.9 by the time you clear the last stage (assuming no deaths).  Is it 5.0? Or can you reach 9.9 while still starting at 4.5?

The counter goes up depending on what your health percentage at the end of the fight is.  If you perfect a round with 0%, it goes up an entire 1.0 points.  I think if your under 50% I think it still go up 7-9 points.  When I used Ganondorf I started at 5.0 and had it up to 9.9 by the second to last fight.

So I imagine you could start at 4.0 you could still get it up to 9.9 by the end.  The key thing to remember is using a Smash Ticket doesn't dock your points if you continue so hopefully you have some saved for the last fight.  Master Hand and Crazy Hand were insanely cheap on 9.9 and I had to use 3 tickets to complete it but since they were tickets I wasn't docked anything so I still finished at 9.9 despite dying three time in the last fight.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 20, 2019, 08:44:23 PM
I mainly play with Link and can do really well with him but it'll be tough to clear 9.9 I think.  Hmm, I wonder what minimum level you need to start at to get to 9.9 by the time you clear the last stage (assuming no deaths).  Is it 5.0? Or can you reach 9.9 while still starting at 4.5?

The counter goes up depending on what your health percentage at the end of the fight is.  If you perfect a round with 0%, it goes up an entire 1.0 points.  I think if your under 50% I think it still go up 7-9 points.  When I used Ganondorf I started at 5.0 and had it up to 9.9 by the second to last fight.

So I imagine you could start at 4.0 you could still get it up to 9.9 by the end.  The key thing to remember is using a Smash Ticket doesn't dock your points if you continue so hopefully you have some saved for the last fight.  Master Hand and Crazy Hand were insanely cheap on 9.9 and I had to use 3 tickets to complete it but since they were tickets I wasn't docked anything so I still finished at 9.9 despite dying three time in the last fight.

Good to know about the smash ticket.  I always thought it was just for increased rewards, and always wondered why they were offered for continues.

I hate the Master/Crazy hand combo so I may try Link first as his boss is fairly easy to deal with (and I'm assuming there are no surprises at 9.9)

Edit: And I finished the first attempt at 9.8 after using one classic ticket on the boss with Link... unfortunately, that still impacts how much of a bonus you get from the fight and I was only at 9.6
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 28, 2019, 12:42:06 AM
2.0 patch hits soon, and I'm curious if the major rev bump will mean fighters get tweaked (nerf/buffs).  I was kind of hoping that they would let some more time go buy to really see how things settle before doing that.  A lot of folks complained about the newcomers being broken, but honestly none have seemed that terribly unfair.  I think the unfamiliarity throws folks off. 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 30, 2019, 01:14:02 AM
2.0 patch hits soon, and I'm curious if the major rev bump will mean fighters get tweaked (nerf/buffs).  I was kind of hoping that they would let some more time go buy to really see how things settle before doing that.  A lot of folks complained about the newcomers being broken, but honestly none have seemed that terribly unfair.  I think the unfamiliarity throws folks off. 

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/43317

Actual 2.0 Patch notes
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Evan_B on January 30, 2019, 07:29:56 AM
I don't think any of the newcomers are broken. They gave a number of veteran fighters stupid buffs and options, though.

Nice to see buffs across the board, more or less.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Shecky on January 30, 2019, 03:58:33 PM
I don't think any of the newcomers are broken. They gave a number of veteran fighters stupid buffs and options, though.

Nice to see buffs across the board, more or less.

Yeah, it seems Mii Brawler got a ton of buffs and I thought he was already a hard hitter (with a lot of combos for seasoned players)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: ShyGuy on January 30, 2019, 11:35:25 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/i2OYVwG.gif)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on April 16, 2019, 09:52:48 PM
Nintendo dropped this 15 minute video for Joker and a bunch of other info for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (e.g. stage builder).

Direct Link/for BnM (https://youtu.be/FmuTGcbu4Kc)
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on April 16, 2019, 10:42:18 PM
They did this kind of quietly, no?  I remember the last Direct said there would be a focused announcement for the update in April, but then they just dropped this out of nowhere.

Joker looks like a pretty fun character, but we are now t-minus 10 months before the last character is supposed to launch, and 4 of them haven't been announced.  Hopefully we'll see two in the E3 direct.

Weird that the Mii Fighter costumes DLC pack isn't included and kind of a bummer.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Stratos on April 17, 2019, 12:36:10 PM
Yeah, I feel the Miis related to Persona should have been part of that fighter bundle, or maybe tossed in as a bonus for those that purchased the fighter pass. Unless there is one I really want, I'm going to wait to get any of them, because I'm sure they will eventually offer a bundle of all the Mii packs.

I thought for sure the ending was going to reveal or at the least tease who the next fighter was going to be. Agree that the next two or three should be shown at E3. I'm sure they are working on all of them simultaneously to some degree so I expect news and releases to ramp up as time progresses.

Also hoping the "datamining" rumors turn out to be true and we will be getting additional fighter passes. I think it would be great to hit an even 100 fighters, and it would certainly prolong interest in the game for the rest of the Switch's life since that would probably take another year or so to develop.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on April 17, 2019, 12:57:25 PM
I was expecting tease too.  I'm starting to wonder if the idea that one of them has to be a GenVIII Pokemon means that we won't get the last one until those games come out.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Khushrenada on April 20, 2019, 03:50:56 AM
Personally, I'm expecting E3 to reveal the other 4 DLC characters but maybe Nintendo will keep doling them out slowly.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Khushrenada on April 20, 2019, 04:02:18 AM
Also, I'm guessing that with the reveal of the Tails and Knuckles Mii Fighter costumes that the possibility of Tails being a fighter has now become zero.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: BranDonk Kong on April 20, 2019, 08:37:54 AM
Top 3 themes for user-created stages online: Steamed Hams, dicks, 9/11
Top downloadable Mii fighters online: Hitler
What a time to be alive!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Adrock on April 20, 2019, 10:22:34 AM
Top 3 themes for user-created stages online: Steamed Hams, dicks, 9/11
Top downloadable Mii fighters online: Hitler
What a time to be alive!
Version 3.0.1 Patch Notes

General
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Khushrenada on April 20, 2019, 02:31:12 PM
Swapnote died in vaaaaiiiiinnnnnn!!!!!!!! No lessons were leeeeaaaaarrrrrnnnnneeeeddddd!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Mop it up on April 20, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
Huh, it actually isn't as bad as I was expecting...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: GK on April 21, 2019, 02:05:59 AM
Hmm Hitler & dicks is about right. Didn't see the 9/11 stages coming though.

Since there's no more music CDs to collect I'm guessing the "factory" stages didn't make a return.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on April 21, 2019, 11:03:59 PM
Also, I'm guessing that with the reveal of the Tails and Knuckles Mii Fighter costumes that the possibility of Tails being a fighter has now become zero.

I'd assume that as well.  I'd also reason the DLC will all be franchises new to Smash.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Stratos on April 21, 2019, 11:33:58 PM
Also, I'm guessing that with the reveal of the Tails and Knuckles Mii Fighter costumes that the possibility of Tails being a fighter has now become zero.

I'd assume that as well.  I'd also reason the DLC will all be franchises new to Smash.

Agreed, holding out hope the other 4 are from 3rd parties and we get additional surprise DLC fighters from the 1st party roster to round things out. I think 20 more fighters would about cover everyone most deserving of a place while also saving room for a few fun picks like Piranah Plant and Duck Hunt Dog. Plus 100 is about the point we would potentially be hitting critical mass on character balance if we haven't already hit it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on April 22, 2019, 10:00:19 AM
20 is a lot, and I think Sakurai and the team spend a lot of time already balancing the current roster.  Honestly, I'm happy that we're getting a total of 6 DLC fighters already (with the two released).  If Sakurai added another, I'd be thrilled, but I wouldn't expect it.

Homerun Contest and maybe a return of Smash Run would be great though.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: Caterkiller on April 22, 2019, 03:16:57 PM
The balance has turned out so well for the majority of the cast this time around I bet they could get away with 100 total characters and still end up with no character completely dominating over everyone else.

There are no Metaknights, Diddy Kongs, or Bayonettas this time around and it's absolutely amazing. Sakurai letting a team of balancers take care of all that themselves has been a blessing!

Bring on more fighter passes I say and for corn sakes get Dixie Kong in there!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: ThePerm on June 14, 2019, 11:28:04 PM
I hope Banjo has a polar bear skin.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - Is Your Body Ready?!?!
Post by: nickmitch on June 14, 2019, 11:42:55 PM
Not a thing I knew I wanted until now. Thank you.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Khushrenada on June 15, 2019, 03:52:51 AM
I'd say that with the addition of the DragonQuest Hero, we can finally put an end to Geno ever being in Smash. At this point, I don't think we will see any other Nintendo characters added in the DLC. I think it is going to all be 3rd Party so that Ultimate will continue to further add to its stature of the biggest gaming crossover in history. There is always the next Smash Bros. to add in more Nintendo characters especially since there's a good chance many of the 3rd party characters for Ultimate won't be returning for such a future installment.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Super KYTim89 on June 15, 2019, 06:54:59 AM
Just give me Battletoads in Smash and I will be happy.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on June 15, 2019, 11:51:43 AM
I'd say that with the addition of the DragonQuest Hero, we can finally put an end to Geno ever being in Smash. At this point, I don't think we will see any other Nintendo characters added in the DLC. I think it is going to all be 3rd Party so that Ultimate will continue to further add to its stature of the biggest gaming crossover in history. There is always the next Smash Bros. to add in more Nintendo characters especially since there's a good chance many of the 3rd party characters for Ultimate won't be returning for such a future installment.

Plus with the 3rd parties you get the added benefit of having some cross-promotion.  Unless Nintendo plans on doing anything else with that character, he's got no meaningful shot at being DLC.  The only outlier might be Banjo and Kazooie, but they count as an extreme level of fan service.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 16, 2019, 02:48:03 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if there's an N64 Classic in the works that will have Banjo-Kazooie and Diddy Kong Racing with maybe some other Rare games.  Nintendo knows Rare's lineup was a huge part of that system so you need some Rare games if you release it.  There was also rumors of Rare Replay coming to the Switch around the same time Cuphead was a rumor.  Well Cuphead ended up coming true there's a good chance Rare Replay could come as well.

Of course it should also be noted that Iwata did say he regrets not finding a way to keep the Banjo-Kazooie IP when they sold their shares of Rare to Microsoft back in 2002.  I imagine Sakurai knows this as well as other higher ups at Nintendo so there was probably a good amount of emotion at Nintendo to get Banjo in this just from that fact alone.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2019, 01:43:18 AM
Yeah Geomon!
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 05, 2019, 05:23:42 AM
I really love how some of the Mii Fighter costumes are almost good enough to be the characters.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Adrock on September 05, 2019, 12:18:21 PM
Banjo and Kazooie are pretty fun to use. I only played against the CPU so Richter was just f-ing blocking everything even at CPU Level 6. I really like Spiral Mountain, very unique. And the remixes are just *chef kiss*

The rearranged character select screen looks a bit strange with the black borders once again more prominent. I wonder how many more characters will be added. With the Mii Fighters shown, there’s room for 12 more with the current size of the boxes.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on September 07, 2019, 04:09:50 PM
20 is a lot, and I think Sakurai and the team spend a lot of time already balancing the current roster.  Honestly, I'm happy that we're getting a total of 6 DLC fighters already (with the two released).  If Sakurai added another, I'd be thrilled, but I wouldn't expect it.

Homerun Contest and maybe a return of Smash Run would be great though.

In light of recent events, I am surprised and thrilled.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on September 07, 2019, 05:52:45 PM
With Terry from NEOGEO, makes me wonder about the final fighter. What major studios/franchises/publishers are missing? Koei Tecmo doesn't have anyone, and Capcom only has tertiary stuff such as Rathalos. So we could see something else.

In terms of genre/industry defining figures, feels like Rayman would be a good fit, but he is an assist trophy, so maybe that ship has sailed? Bomberman would be nice, but is also an assist trophy.

Spiro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot were somewhat big in their day.

A lot of folks were claiming Ninja Gaiden's Ryu was the next character, but would Sakurai really want two character sharing the same name in? Maybe someone else from that franchise.

Moving on the the next wave, it would be great to continue the path of getting 3rd parties in, but I do hope they round out some remaining key characters from the Nintendo side.

Waluigi and (Captain) Toad would be obvious shoe-ins.

Could easily get another Pokemon from the Galar series as that seems inevitable.

I know some may not like it, but a Fire Emblem character is probably coming too for Three Houses. My hope is that it isn't just one of them, but make the professor/Byleth act like a more active Pokemon Trainer and allow him to toggle a supporting student from the thee main lords to really make it a variety pick.

Geno probably my last "niche" fanservice hope.

For a WTF-Out-Of-Left-Field pick how about Chargin' Chuck from the Super Nintendo games? We could use a more sports related entry in the roster and aside from Waluigi or another generic NES character to represent those old sports games, Chuck could be a fun one. Have him tackle opponents and throw a ball at opponents.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Adrock on September 08, 2019, 04:07:23 PM
Capcom only has tertiary stuff such as Rathalos.
Capcom has the most third party representation on the playable roster: Mega Man, Ryu, and Ken. Don't disrespect the Blue Bomber like that, yo.

We'll be here all day if we resort to lists. I will say I low-key want to see Crash Bandicoot, OG Lara Croft, and OG Dante just to make PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale look even sillier by comparison. Nintendo already managed to snag Solid Snake and Cloud. Sony couldn't get any of the main third party characters that really represented its consoles. For trolling purposes, I just want those three added.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 08, 2019, 11:09:56 PM
We'll be here all day if we resort to lists. I will say I low-key want to see Crash Bandicoot, OG Lara Croft, and OG Dante just to make PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale look even sillier by comparison. Nintendo already managed to snag Solid Snake and Cloud. Sony couldn't get any of the main third party characters that really represented its consoles. For trolling purposes, I just want those three added.

With Terry being added to represent SNK and the Neo Geo, I wouldn't be surprised if Crash shows up now.  I mean, even though Sony doesn't own Crash, he is the mascot to the general public for the Playstation 1 era.  Not only was he popular in the West, but his games were also million sellers in Japan during that time as well so he'd have equal popularity around the world.

The recent HD Trilogy and Team Racing are not only on Switch, but they sold pretty well too.  I mean, Activision loves money so I don't see them having any problems with Nintendo requesting Crash in Smash Bros to help advertise the series.  So if Crash is not the next character, I think he has a good chance of being in the next wave of DLC.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on September 09, 2019, 03:46:11 PM
For a WTF-Out-Of-Left-Field pick how about Chargin' Chuck from the Super Nintendo games? We could use a more sports related entry in the roster and aside from Waluigi or another generic NES character to represent those old sports games, Chuck could be a fun one. Have him tackle opponents and throw a ball at opponents.

I'd like Chargin' Chuck as an assist trophy, personally.  Seeing him in Odyssey hit me right in the nostalgia.

Capcom only has tertiary stuff such as Rathalos.
Capcom has the most third party representation on the playable roster: Mega Man, Ryu, and Ken. Don't disrespect the Blue Bomber like that, yo.

I misread and thought he meant that as what was left for Capcom to add, and I was about to demand an apology to Phoenix Wright.  Also, Phoenix Wright for Smash.  And also Professor Layton.  Then the Layton vs Wright thing can be properly settled.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on September 10, 2019, 12:20:51 PM
Yeah, I brain farted and plain forgot about Mega Man and the Street Fighter folks belonging to Capcom, probably because they have been in the game for a good while now. Probably too obsessed with looking for new fighters and forgot about all the ones we already got.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on September 11, 2019, 11:37:19 PM
I still have hope for Travis Touchdown.  Just wanted to throw that out there.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Luigi Dude on September 13, 2019, 12:02:30 AM
Sakurai reveals Ultimate was his final mission from Iwata.

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1172306041070964738

 :'(
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Caterkiller on September 13, 2019, 12:39:03 PM
Iwata's final mission for Sakurai has turned into my favorite game of all time. I haven't loved Smash this much in forever!

As for all the DLC that is on the way I have mixed feelings. On one hand I welcome anyone and everyone but on the other I just feel like 1st party characters are going to be left in the dust. Now going by the translation of the Banjo presentation it sounds as if it will be nothing but more collaborations with 3rd party developers but according to PushDustin's translation that isn't the case. Then in his latest interview Sakurai did talk about continuing his record for more and more cross overs so I can only assume the majority of characters will be 3rd party.

It's crazy to think the likes of Ridley(who I adore) got in before Dixie Kong. Ever since Brawl I figured she was a no brainer with each new installment.

With the DLC so far I'm happy with Piranha Plant and Banjo Kazooie. I count B&K as legit Nintendo Characters just now belonging to another company. They have been the 1st part pick in this current fighters pass.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on September 13, 2019, 12:55:36 PM
Why not both? From the sounds of it, they are open to anyone and everyone they think can work, so give us another 3rd party pass and a 1st party pass.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 19, 2020, 06:09:15 PM
Bumping this for the final character of Fighter Pack 1 being Byleth.  Thoughts on them and how they would play.   Also I am going to post this video as a reminder that it is okay to talk about the new fighter and your likes and dislikes but please don't go after the creators of the game with threats and such.   



For BnM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91LAKHVQZxM

Overall I like Byleth and they add a new mix of something different from the FE characters. I feel like Byleth is a good amalgamation of the typical FE fighter.  I hope they get lots of play. 

Edit: Weird that the video isn't showing up...
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 19, 2020, 06:53:48 PM
What I saw showed Byleth to play real differently from other characters.  His recovery doesn't seem that great at first, but I do like the fact that he can hook and pull other players down, and that might be really cool for recovery purposes and attack.  His specials make him feel more like a Link mixed with Fire Emblem, the archery aspects are nice.  And I honestly like the idea of playing with all of fire emblems weapon classes.  I kinda wish we had another variety type as a full fighter though.  I would have loved the idea of a true Axe Fighter, True Sword Fighter, and True Spear Fighter...but then they are still swinging a weapon so would it really be that different?
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on January 21, 2020, 01:29:00 PM
I'm still bummed that it wasn't Pokemon Trainer Byleth with the ability to toggle between the three house leaders. But at least you get some weapon variety.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: BeautifulShy on January 24, 2020, 10:58:47 AM
I went and voted in the 2nd wave poll and voted for Malon, Nintendo Characters and the Monstars from Space Jam to be in the next wave.  I also have to say I love these silly polls.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on March 05, 2020, 12:01:56 PM
Just came here to post Chibi Robo for Smash.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Mr. Bungle on March 06, 2020, 01:14:52 PM
If there is another Kong added I think Dixie deserves it.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on March 06, 2020, 02:45:39 PM
Six characters to be announced, and we have really nothing to go on.  Nintendo picked these again, right?  So, the cross-promotion factor could be really big.  Like the Gen 8 Pokemon coming around the time of one of the SwSh DLC drops.

Still pulling for Travis Touchdown.  Especially with No More Heroes 3 coming.

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 15, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
At this point Dixie wouldn’t add much. And we have 3 kongs. I don’t need any more characters from franchises represented. I want franchises that haven’t been represented. Give me Drill Dozer, Custom Robo, Bomberman (personal favorite) Random F-Zero character with skins for other characters. And other back catalog
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on March 16, 2020, 04:15:39 PM
I'd love Cranky Kong with pogo-cane mechanics, but aside form that I'd agree the Kong roster is pretty well done.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 31, 2020, 01:18:34 AM
I am personally really happy about the inclusion of an ARMS combatant.  I know it is a new franchise and people are may want a more popular character, but personally it is a Nintendo franchise, and it is a character that can add a very different fighting style. 

I imagine long reaching attacks that are powerful, but if you miss you are left open.  Special moves could be based on the different gloves, and obviously recover is hookshot like mechanics seems like a fun character to me.  And if the rumors are true that they will add several characters from the franchise via different skins that is even more fun. 

Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Khushrenada on March 31, 2020, 01:44:49 AM
It's sort of funny how when Smash Ultimate was first announced, many people expected an ARMS character to be included. Then that whole expectation went away particularly with how the DLC went. Personally, I had already figured an ARMS character would probably be included in the next Smash game (if there is another) since it would probably have to rely more in Nintendo's own characters at that point. The announcement was a pleasant surprise to me.

Once again, I found myself disagreeing with Broodwars assessment:

Nintendo: "Yeah, we know no one's going to get excited for this one, so we just thought we'd warn you ahead of time that the next Smash character is from ARMS."

Yeah, I know. I just think it's very telling that Nintendo went out of their way to avoid a repeat of the Byleth reveal by letting them know not to expect an amazing next DLC character.

If Nintendo was worried about the reception for an ARMS character then I don't think they needed to worry that much. People already seem more optimistic just from the news that it is an ARMS character compared to the Byleth reception. I know I'm pumped about it. Difference between this and Byleth (besides the fact I've played ARMS but not a single FE games) is that Smash fans were already critical of the amount of FE characters and swordsman that were in the game back when Chrom seemed overkill. Since Chrome was just an "Echo", he was begrudgingly accepted since it meant he shouldn't have had used up that much development time. To have another FE character show up in the DLC just felt like an uninspired choice and an already redundant character. On the other hand, I do know a few people who have played Three Houses and were quite happy with the inclusion. I'm not going to say it was a universally panned pick but it definitely wasn't popular primarily in part because the game isn't lacking in FE swordsman representation.

It is lacking in ARMS representation so I'm curious to see how it is integrated. A big reason for that is because I feel that what was holding ARMS back (see what I did there) somewhat from being enthusiastically received and accepted by Nintendo fans like Splatoon and Smash was its speed. When playing the game, it takes a bit of time for a punch to land. While other moves can be activated faster like jumping, the extending and recoiling of arms has these delays. When playing it, I thought about Smash and how getting in close and making an immediate punch or move is very satisfying. From what I've seen with Splatoon, it is also a very fast paced game and shooter. ARMS doesn't seem to quite have that top gear of speed. I think it is an intentional choice to be more of a chess match but it can be annoying when you enter a command but by the time your arms are heading towards a player, the situation may have changed and you'd be wishing you did something else. I'm looking forward to the Smash Direct for the ARMS character to see what it looks like when they are played at Smash speed.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Mr. Bungle on April 02, 2020, 11:12:16 AM
Since Spring Man is an assist trophy it seems less likely, thought not without precedent, that he would become playable. My guess is Min-Min, who is really popular with fans and the devs. This is not a personal bias as I main Mechanica. Also, it is a good time to play since a lot of people are in party mode with the free online access.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Stratos on April 02, 2020, 12:18:47 PM
Since Spring Man is an assist trophy it seems less likely, thought not without precedent, that he would become playable. My guess is Min-Min, who is really popular with fans and the devs. This is not a personal bias as I main Mechanica. Also, it is a good time to play since a lot of people are in party mode with the free online access.

If Spring Man becomes playable then all bets are off, one of the remaining five will be Waluigi.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on April 02, 2020, 06:42:16 PM
Since Spring Man is an assist trophy it seems less likely, thought not without precedent, that he would become playable.

I think this is an unprecedented situation.  Sakurai said he didn't have the time to implement an ARMS character properly, so my guess is that with Spring Man, he did just enough to have him in there as an assist trophy.  But now, Sakurai has extra time since there's a second DLC wave.  This might be the first time he'd had the chance to go back to the well from earlier in the development cycle.  I mean, Little Mac only got upgraded from being an assist trophy because there was a whole new game for that to happen (same with Isabelle and Dark Samus).
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Spak-Spang on April 03, 2020, 12:33:12 AM
So maybe Spring Man will disappear as an assist trophy.  Then I have my fingers crossed Bomberman could be a real character.  I still want him in the game.

My 5 characters I would love to see:

1) Arms Character
2) Bomberman
3) Mike Jones (Star Tropics)
4) Popeye (Look it is a long shot, but man that would be Amazing for the history of it.)
5) Jill (Drill Doser)
6) Tails/Doctor Robotonik. But honestly Doctor Robotonik could just be a boss battle. 
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Adrock on June 22, 2020, 03:58:53 PM
A lot of piss and vinegar in the ResetEra thread regarding Min Min over Twintelle, who was admittedly my choice. I never played ARMS so I picked Twintelle for representation and because I like the design. Choosing an ARMS character who doesn't use her arms would admittedly be kind of weird. I totally get why people are upset about this.

Here's how to make it right:

1. Port Xenoblade Chronicles X to Switch.
2. Pair its announcement with Elma's newcomer reveal trailer in Fighter Pass Vol. 2.
3. Start the trailer with Elma shooting lasers at Rex because his design is terrible (besides the incomprehensible heels, Elma's design is excellent)
4. Bonus: Announce Doc Louis as free DLC. He's an Echo Fighter of Little Mac who is weaker and heavier but has a much better jump. His final smash is he rips his red track suit jacket off to reveal the leopard print shirt. Everyone is immediately KO'd.

Anyway, my 7 Day Trial of Nintendo Switch Online ended today. Some takeaways regarding playing Super Smash Bros. Ultimate online for a week:

1. I'm bad at Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Granted, I primarily used Palutena, and no one uses Palutena.
2. Joker and Byleth are super popular choices. I encountered both quite frequently.
3. Listen to Sakurai. If you're interested in playing online, make sure you have the LAN Adapter.
4. I completed all the Online mode Challenges so I never have to play Super Smash Bros. Ultimate online again.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 22, 2020, 04:34:15 PM
1. I'm bad at Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Granted, I primarily used Palutena, and no one uses Palutena.

I wonder if she was nerfed because back in early 2019 a lot of people were using her at the time.  I remember some of the early tier list had her pretty high.  Reminds me of the early days of Smash Wii U I kept getting paired with Robin opponents, then I come back a year later and no one was using them anymore.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: nickmitch on June 22, 2020, 05:08:25 PM
A lot of piss and vinegar in the ResetEra thread regarding Min Min over Twintelle, who was admittedly my choice. I never played ARMS so I picked Twintelle for representation and because I like the design. Choosing an ARMS character who doesn't use her arms would admittedly be kind of weird. I totally get why people are upset about this.

I like Twintelle better as a character, but I think Min Min made the most sense for the reason you mentioned.  I don't think it's worth being upset over though because I think most of us, when looking at the ARMS roster, did or would have assumed she'd be the choice.
Title: Re: Super Smash Bros. Ultimate And The Never-Ending 3rd Party Character DLC
Post by: Evan_B on July 18, 2020, 09:16:28 PM
I called the Arms Switch ability before it was cool.