Post by: joeamis on July 21, 2004, 10:05:41 AM
Post by: Draygaia on July 21, 2004, 10:59:44 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 21, 2004, 11:02:32 AM
Realistically though I think Nintendo is so ignored these days that they probably could have an incredibly original and awesome system-selling idea right out in the open and no one would steal it until after the game became a success. GTA3 has by far the most copied idea this gen and it ironically slipped in completely unnoticed until the reviews came in. Nintendo acted like all their ideas would be stolen and ironically NONE of them have been copied not even Pikmin or Animal Crossing. I think the reason Super Mario 64's ideas were "stolen" was because at the time Nintendo as by far the number one game company and everyone paid attention to them. There's no need for them to worry now.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2004, 11:27:02 AM
Ninty does this for the exact opposite reason...They don't WANT to hype it up, they just want to keep it hidden so the gaming press can't criticize something before they've gotten to try it out...Look at Wind Waker...When the press clip was shown there was nothing but negative press...But when everyone could get their hands on it, they said "Hey, this isn't half-bad!" Funny how it works against them in the exact same way because some people think it's something to end all things...*sighs*
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 21, 2004, 12:00:59 PM
Post by: Jale on July 21, 2004, 12:19:04 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on July 21, 2004, 02:22:02 PM
Yeah but when the press asks "when are we going to see this?" Nintendo tells them they want to keep it hidden for now in case someone tries to take their ideas. They said this about Super Mario Sunshine and it created all sorts of hype they couldn't deliver on. Even if their intention was to not create hype their response created tons. If Nintendo wants to keep hype down they should just say "we'll show it when we think it's ready enough to be shown." That's what a lot of developers say and it works fine. But Nintendo always says something weird that hypes their games up huge. Remember when Miyamoto said he didn't want to show any screens of Mario Kart because screens would reveal what type of game it was? That created TONS of hype over something that was just two people in each cart. Nintendo should just shut up when it comes to this sort of thing and not give hints or anything. Just a straight out "it's not ready to be revealed publicly yet" is all they need.
The way they handled Wind Waker was actually quite fine. The only problem with that was that they showed a completely different Zelda video beforehand. They didn't actually say anything to build up undeliverable hype. Super Mario Sunshine was built up like it was the most amazing original game ever made.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on July 21, 2004, 04:06:45 PM
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Originally posted by: Professional 666
I want my Mario-Flight-Cap back.
And I want my tanooki suit back.
I bet I'd find some at a fur-con. Off on an adventure!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 21, 2004, 04:48:00 PM
MEGA-ASS-TON!
Post by: ruby_onix on July 21, 2004, 05:06:42 PM
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Realistically though I think Nintendo is so ignored these days that they probably could have an incredibly original and awesome system-selling idea right out in the open and no one would steal it until after the game became a success.
Well, there is always Jason Rubin, of Crash Bandicoot/Jak and Daxter fame.
He's pretty much admitted in numerous interviews that he steals every idea that anyone else in the industry has (especially Miyamoto, who he "respects deeply"), and once he does he's suddenly better than everyone else in the industry, because he's got all their ideas, plus his own ideas.
But really, what are you going to do to stop someone like him? Refuse to talk about a game six months before it's release, and just release it quietly on launch day, and the most you can hope to accomplish is delaying the knock-off's release by about six months. Unless the silence kills your game, and nobody thinks the ideas in it are worth stealing.
I think it's just "Nintendo's way" to be ultra-secretive, and it's a personality thing, not calculated.
Post by: joeamis on July 21, 2004, 06:08:32 PM
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Originally posted by: Draygaia
I don't think thats copying or stealing. The idea of returning colors to something black and white is pretty old. Now if the character had a watercannon then yeah I would accept that as copying.
Watch the official video, the only video there is, on Gamespot and you will see the character Milo squeezing the chameleon and it spraying out colors almost Exactly like how the water came out of the sprayer in S.Mario Sunshine............ Also the "paint" sprayed out flows just like the water did in Mario and covers objects and the ground literally exactly how it was done in Super Mario Sunshine. I say "stolen" with brackets because Nintendo was afraid of that back in 2001/2002 while Sunshine was in development, and I believe how they're doing it in Milo and the Rainbow Nasties is a copy of SMS just based on how it works in the game by what I saw in the official video for MRN. VIDEO HERE
Post by: Mumei on July 21, 2004, 06:29:01 PM
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I think it's fitting that the one game to steal the idea will likely fly under the radar and as a multiplatform title is no threat to the Cube or Super Mario Sunshine. Hopefully this will teach Nintendo not to hype up lame ideas as so incredibly innovative that they must be kept secret.
Thank you T_T.
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 21, 2004, 07:20:47 PM
Post by: Mario on July 21, 2004, 07:24:41 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on July 21, 2004, 09:08:10 PM
Post by: DrZoidberg on July 21, 2004, 11:03:37 PM
Post by: Cube_King on July 22, 2004, 12:38:51 AM
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Originally posted by: joeamis
It involves using a chameleon to squirt colors back onto the world that previously had become completely black and white. The game includes the abilities to mix and match colors to create more colors, ala the color spectrum.
I'd prefer this idea than SMS's dirt-cleaning idea.
Post by: Caillan on July 22, 2004, 12:58:01 AM
If I knew Warthog to be a highly competent developer (which I don't), then I'd be pretty hyped up about this game. I've never actually played a game by these guys, thuogh. From what I've seen., their previous games tend to be crappy francise titles, and liscenced to the likes of Acclaim, but the the 3 games they've announced all look to be something original. Kudos to these guys for finally giving publishers what looks to be the jip to do their own thing.
Post by: Jale on July 22, 2004, 04:08:55 AM
Post by: Berny on July 22, 2004, 05:33:26 AM
Me: Dood! Sidestep!
Experienced guy (Nightmare): Wot?
6 year old (Raphael): *SLICE* NO GOOD!
Post by: Draygaia on July 22, 2004, 07:26:36 AM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on July 22, 2004, 05:02:07 PM
Post by: Mumei on July 22, 2004, 10:57:13 PM
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Originally posted by: Bill
Or maybe it's the fans hyping it up? Which it is... -_____-
I'm sorry, but what does Nintendo expect when they claim that it is so amazing that all the competitors will copy them if they tell anybody a single detail? The fans wouldn't hype it up beyond belief if they had some idea of what was possible >_>. Or I wouldn't....
Post by: Caillan on July 23, 2004, 02:04:54 AM
What makes people so willing to pounce on any game without a 'realistic' art style? Games are games, sand it's about bloody time develoers stopped taking their visual style from movies. So much more can be done with games, and I sincerely hope these guys might go even a small step twoards proving it.
Post by: joeamis on July 23, 2004, 04:06:44 PM
Post by: Koopa Troopa on July 23, 2004, 09:11:06 PM
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I dunno. These little kids are becoming much more skilled in the art of gaming.
You must be joking. Kids today are so coddled it isn't even funny. Kids in the NES days were real gamers, little brats tackling contra, donkey kong, metroid and the like. I doubt 5% of kids today could take any of OUR generations games.
Post by: mouse_clicker on July 23, 2004, 09:24:17 PM
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You must be joking. Kids today are so coddled it isn't even funny. Kids in the NES days were real gamers, little brats tackling contra, donkey kong, metroid and the like. I doubt 5% of kids today could take any of OUR generations games.
I completely agree- older games were merciless. Metroid in particular I never even beat because it was too damn hard- every time you'd continue they'd start you off with 30 health and no extra energy tanks regardless of how many you had, it was insane. Couple that with the fact you never knew where the hell you were or where you were going. Today's games, while still very fun, just aren't anywhere near as challenging as they used to be, which can be a good or bad thing depending.
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2004, 09:45:52 PM
Yes, kids back then tried their hands at the really hard games, but that doesn't mean they succeeded. Sure, if you only have two games for your NES there's not much to play and you have enough time to master them, but most kids never completed their old games. Hell, when I was a little kid my most played games were Katakis (an R-Type rip-off by Factor 5) and Giana Sisters (a Super Mario Bros rip-off (I even had a hacked version that replaces the player character with Mario), if my information is correct that one was made by Factor 5, too), both pretty long and hard games which I never played past the first few levels wthout using the trainer the previous owner patched in. I never completed a single level in Mega Man for the Game Boy without using an Action Replay (I think I made it to cutman and elecman without help but never managed to beat those). My friends were even worse at games.
The SNES is a completely different story. I made it through most of the games I had for that, mostly because of the implementation of save features and other helps that kept you from having to replay the entire game.
What I wanted to say is: Not even 5% of the kids BACK THEN could tackle the old games. How old were you guys when you played them, anyway? I was maybe six, at that age playing even the easiest videogames like Mario Land (30 minutes start to finish) was really hard.
But then the first GB game I played (didn't like Tetris, still don't) was R-Type...
Post by: Ian Sane on July 23, 2004, 09:46:26 PM
Hell I can't even beat our generation's games and I grew up playing them. I agree with MC in that it can be a good or bad thing depending on the situation. I don't want games that hold your hand but there were some old games that were just ridiculously unfair like the object of game design was to prevent players from winning at any cost. The NES Zeldas for example were unfairly hard. Your sword had virtually no range. It was like trying to hit an enemy with your dick. So current Zelda games shouldn't be as hard. But at the same time there should be a fear of dying and you should have to figure out puzzles and strategies yourself without the game giving you blatant hints. It's a tough balance.
Post by: RCmodeler on August 10, 2004, 03:25:42 PM
The water jet in Mario Sunshine is NOT an original idea. Just off the top-of-my-head, I can remember a game from *20 years ago* which used a water jet as its key component (Towering Inferno - Atari 2600).
So if anybody "stole" anything, it would be Nintendo.... from older games that you young folks have forgotten and/or did not know about. Please remember that before you accuse others developers of stealing Nintendo's ideas. Chances are, Nintendo's idea is NOT original.
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 10, 2004, 04:50:11 PM
The water jet has been used in MANY games, not just TI...But in no other game do you use it to wash away paint...
Post by: RCmodeler on August 11, 2004, 03:32:26 AM
Post by: joeamis on August 11, 2004, 12:02:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RCmodeler
Young teens annoy me. They act like everything is brand new, and never been done before. That's okay, but then when they go accuse OTHER games of "stealing".... that goes too far.
The water jet in Mario Sunshine is NOT an original idea. Just off the top-of-my-head, I can remember a game from *20 years ago* which used a water jet as its key component (Towering Inferno - Atari 2600).
So if anybody "stole" anything, it would be Nintendo.... from older games that you young folks have forgotten and/or did not know about. Please remember that before you accuse others developers of stealing Nintendo's ideas. Chances are, Nintendo's idea is NOT original.
Um, first of all I'm older than you. Second I did not claim that Milo & The RN stole the water cannon idea from SMS, that's why I used "brackets". Because Nintendo had said they were afraid the idea would be stolen, so I was merely referring to that.
I don't know about you guys, but I didn't think the games back in the NES era were too hard to beat. Zelda 1 was a small challenge (took 1 week), Zelda 2 was harder but not that bad. Then again I only had about 15 NES games when it was in its prime so maybe I just played them more.
