Post by: mouse_clicker on May 18, 2004, 05:36:11 PM
Post by: Caliban on May 18, 2004, 05:45:33 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on May 18, 2004, 05:58:35 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 18, 2004, 06:00:42 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 18, 2004, 06:12:32 PM
Also, I would assume a fertility test would begin with a few questions before you get to the physical part.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 18, 2004, 06:20:59 PM
Post by: Mario on May 18, 2004, 09:54:07 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 18, 2004, 10:34:29 PM
Probably Bavarians (if you don't understand that, think Texans). Only there have we got enough fundamentalists to prevent education in school. In the rest of the federation nobody gives a f#ck about religion, so you can expect sexual education to take place. In fact they must have skipped school or have really aggressive parents who gave them excuses for skipping biology lessons (I'm not sure whether that really was biology or whether there were dedicated lessons for sexual education, been a while since then). Either way, serves them right. Stupidity shouldn't be allowed to procreate.
Post by: Pale on May 19, 2004, 05:38:03 AM
QuoteThey make good dougnuts...
Originally posted by: KDR_11kProbably Bavarians
Is that how you spell dougnuts?? Hmm... donuts...dougnuts...I dunno...
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 19, 2004, 06:01:43 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 19, 2004, 09:18:45 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 19, 2004, 09:32:30 AM
Yeah because of two really dumb people a whole religion is dying out. That makes tons of sense.
What I don't get is how come their parents never said anything. Even if you were really sheltered from sex (and that would be pretty hard particularly in North America) surely your parents would tell you after you got married. Only pre-marital sex is a sin in Christian religions. Sex after marriage is perfectly moral and is encouraged or at least it is with Catholics. I'm not 100% sure what the different Protestant religions think about sex within marriage.
I imagine though that the couple has been naked with each other and touched each other's private parts. That in itself would probably satisfy any urges. They probably just don't know the mechanics of intercourse.
"Who wants to bet that after the discovery of sex the couple has been doing nothing else?"
It's probably really good for their marriage. They've had all this time to build a relationship and really get to know each other beforehand. Now sex can add an extra spark to their relationship.
Post by: Caliban on May 19, 2004, 10:27:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
Who wants to bet that after the discovery of sex the couple has been doing nothing else?
I'm betting that they are doing it right.........now!
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Probably Bavarians (if you don't understand that, think Texans). Only there have we got enough fundamentalists to prevent education in school. In the rest of the federation nobody gives a f#ck about religion, so you can expect sexual education to take place. In fact they must have skipped school or have really aggressive parents who gave them excuses for skipping biology lessons
I got to agree with KDR_11k, probably they are from a region with a very conservative way of life so probably they missed on purpose the Human Biology Chapter.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 19, 2004, 01:55:55 PM
[Couple looks at each other, finally seeing beyond the veil of their reality...]
"GOOD LORD WHAT IS THAT!?"
"TIS THE DEVIL'S WORK!"
"PUT YOUR CLOTHES BACK ON!"
Post by: KDR_11k on May 20, 2004, 01:27:30 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 20, 2004, 10:37:47 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 12:00:18 PM
Same reason society in general doesn't: because most people aren't very attractive.
I think the real reason is that it would be kind of hard to resist having premarital sex if you were surrounded by naked people all the time. It's a temptation issue I figure.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 12:06:21 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 12:31:04 PM
True but in theory everything that is restricted has a good reason for being restricted. For example murder is restricted for obvious reasons and violence is restricted as well because it can lead to murder. If Christian religions restrict pre-marital sex obviously a strong temptation like casual nudity should be restricted as well. In the Catholic Faith deliberately putting oneself in a situation that strongly tempts one to sin is considered a sin itself. Thus casual nudity would be a sin.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 20, 2004, 12:41:29 PM
Nudity.
~~~~~
Nude.
~~~~~
HAHAHAHA
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 12:41:30 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 01:04:14 PM
I'll agree that marriage is a human invention and really just a formal way of establishing a monogamous relationship. However monogamy itself IS natural. Several species of animals practice it in some form or fashion. Several types of birds for example establish life-long mating relationships. And many other species at the very least have family units. Therefore it is perfectly natural for human beings to establish life-long mating partners. Human children need to be taken care of for several years and judging by the physical differences of the human male and female I think both parents are vital to the parenting role.
The only difference is that humans don't have instinct the same way other animals do so we have the ability to make choices and think so thus different people are going to choose a different sexual lifestyle and some people don't even want to procreate. If you want to have kids though the odds are pretty good the lifestyle you choose will incorporate a monogamous relationship to some extent. Not just because it's what we've been "conditioned" to do but because it actually works really well.
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 01:46:20 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 02:41:21 PM
Why do you think that? I've come to exact opposite conclusion though that it is mostly due to the fact that I personally do not have the urge to reproduce with multiple partners and I've noticed that situations where a male hops from female to female and has multiple children with different mothers usually doesn't work out very well. The monogamous relationship
has appeared to be more successful. So perhaps it isn't necessarily natural but it's something that humans have adapted because it's a good idea.
And here's a doozy for you. If monogamy is a human creation does that mean that love is as well?
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 20, 2004, 03:08:25 PM
It's not just birds, but many mammals as well...
"We as humans are programmed to pass on our genes to as many mates as possible- sticking with one mate is a direct violation of our natural instincts."
First of all, humans lack instinct...Maybe if you replaced "instinct" with "hormones" it'd work out...Second, if this were the case, then why do such species as foxes, for example, mate for life?
And the main reason for spouses cheating on each other is boredom of each other, which as far as science knows, is a feeling only humans get...
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 03:22:46 PM
Quote
And here's a doozy for you. If monogamy is a human creation does that mean that love is as well?
Love is a chemical reaction to insure the best upbringing for offspring- mothers are much more loving more often than not because they're supposed to be. Love between mates is an illusion created so they'll have sex more often- true love is complete crap.
Quote
First of all, humans lack instinct...Maybe if you replaced "instinct" with "hormones" it'd work out...Second, if this were the case, then why do such species as foxes, for example, mate for life?
Honestly, Bill, don't single out the very few exceptions and ignore on the VAST majority of animals (including mammals) that AREN'T monogamous- a few cases does not mean monogamy is natural for every animal. Hell, most animals that are monogamous aren't even together with the sire of their offspring- humans are one of the only creatures who's sexual partners and social partners are on and the same.
Also, don't tell me humans lack instinct- newborn babies inherently known where their mother's breast almost immediately after birth. Are you going to tell me THAT'S hormonal? Humans are NO different than any other animal- I can't possibly see how we lack instincts. Elaborate on that, please.
Quote
And the main reason for spouses cheating on each other is boredom of each other, which as far as science knows, is a feeling only humans get...
How vague! What do you think causes that boredom? Being together with the same mate constantly! Don't you think that an animal that is not naturally monogamous would grow bored of the mate they've forced themselved to be with? Even if humans are the only animals that experience boredom, wouldn't that be the logical emotion to assign to forced and unnatural monogamy? A statement like that can work both ways.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 20, 2004, 03:36:25 PM
Touche...Maybe because you've never felt it? ^_^ I've felt love that was completely non-sexual towards a close girlfriend of mine...
"Being together with the same mate constantly- don't you think that an animal that is not naturally monogamous would grow bored of the mate they've forced themselved to be with?"
Then the question should be, "Why do they force themselves into that position?" My monogamy example was exactly what you said, to prove that monogamy isn't "unnatural." But humans are a strange exception...Humans can have either monogamous or syngamous tendancies...And it's not just society that has made room for monogamous relationships in the human race, as there were monogamous relationships long before these rules and religions were established...I myself have monogamous "feelings" so to speak(which may or may not be held back morality alone, but I guess we'll never know ^_^)...So don't put the tab completely on humans as a whole being syngamous, because that's absolutely not true...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 20, 2004, 03:47:35 PM
-- that neighbor dude from "Office Space."
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 03:49:12 PM
). Keep in mind that polygamy comes just as naturally to some people as monogamy to us. I was wrong to generalize everyone into one category, though, sorry.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 04:48:37 PM
Well I love my parents and my siblings and to some extent my best friends. I have no sexual desire for any of these people whatsoever.
"I love you man."
"And I love you. Because I've learned that platonic love can exist between two full grown men."
Post by: DrZoidberg on May 20, 2004, 04:58:01 PM
Quote
Touche...Maybe because you've never felt it? ^_^ I've felt love that was completely non-sexual towards a close girlfriend of mine...
moer liek boyfriend am i rite? pro tip, don't get all angsty, bill knows the score
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 05:04:39 PM
Quote
"Love between mates is an illusion created so they'll have sex more often- true love is complete crap."
Are your parents and siblings your mates? If not, you quoted the wrong line.
I think this is the one you wanted:Quote
Love is a chemical reaction to insure the best upbringing for offspring- mothers are much more loving more often than not because they're supposed to be.
You're feeling comradery and empathy- you're simply extending the emotion design to help the success of the species to other people. Humans can do that.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 20, 2004, 06:22:09 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 20, 2004, 06:22:37 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on May 20, 2004, 08:22:58 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 20, 2004, 09:27:08 PM
Now, why does a part of humanity force monogamy on themselves? Hm, why do we enforce rules like "no porn or nudity for children" on ourselves (after all, the child has seen bare breasts shortly after its birth)? Why do we have other rituals like weddings, funerals, national anthems or pledges? There's no real reason for all that, humans just love to exact power by forcing others to behave in a certain way. The Alpha instinct. If your partner is tied to you for life you're exacting some form of power on him which satisfies your Alpha instinct. People buy "cool" things to show their superiority, people beat highscores and win games to show superiority and people live with honor show their superiority. It doesn't matter whether you consciously try to be better than others, you just feel good by doing so.
(I think one of the first people to push this theory was Nietzsche ("Der Wille zur Macht", before that book he assumed the basic instinct was procreation, however, those two seem to be pretty much identical. Power gives you control of partners and better genetic material). Previous philosophers assumed the human is driven by his intelligence and a rational being. Nietzsche tried to prove this basic assumption wrong, which would invalidate any and all philosophy that came before him.)
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on May 21, 2004, 02:54:35 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 21, 2004, 04:14:27 AM
Wow, somebody's bitter. Who was she?
Post by: KDR_11k on May 21, 2004, 05:40:44 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 21, 2004, 11:45:44 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 21, 2004, 04:44:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Ian: I guess you could say our disagreement lies within our religious beliefs, since when you don't believe in god you see man's place in the world and don't get arrogant in thinking we're anything special.
Woah, wait a second...I believe in God and I feel the same way about mankind... ^_^
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 21, 2004, 05:48:45 PM
