Post by: EatChildren on April 18, 2004, 04:32:32 AM
As your all probably well aware, rumors are circulating about the SK/GCN breakup being just a Marketing Ploy for an announcment of Eternal Darkness 2. After going through information, heres what I have come up with:
1) Dennis Dyack has stated the relationship between Nitendo and SK is/was very, very strong.
2) This announcment was completly out of the blue. Not the SLIGHTEST warnings at all.
3) IGN are the only people to have "offically" reported it. They are VERY close to Dennis Dyack.
4) Planet GameCube, also claiming to have contacted Dyack about this, posted the news at 3:33pm.
5) This news was announced April 13th. The E3 press conference ends May 13th.
6) Including the day of the announcment (April 13th) and the day after the end of E3 (May 15th) you have a total of 33 days.
7) Dyack has stated that if he hints towards there next game, ala: MGS, it will be in a much more tricky and sneaky method than he did last time, as people will be prepared.
8) There has still be NO official announcment. When Rare departed there Nintendo announced it (including press release) the day we knew or the day after.
9) Dyack has said there is much more to the Eternal Darkness story, and that one day he would like to show it.
Just a quick note to those in the dark: In the SK game Eternal Darkness the number 333 had a special, mysterious meaning to all the crazyness that was going on.
Am scraping the bottom of the barrel? Yes, definately. Is some of the stuff here pretty far fetched? Obviously yes, it is.
But you cant deny some of them seem "fishy". Noteably the fact there has been NO proper official announcment and that PlanetGamecube posted the article at 3:33.
"As far as we are aware, Cube-IGN and PlanetGamecube are the only two websites to have said that they have talked to Dyack themselves and he confirmed the split.
However, Dyack is also known to be quite chummy with both those sites and posts on both sites forums.
He has been seen logged in, obviously browsing, recently on BOTH of those forums.
Could he be seeing how well his little "joke" is going?
The biggest things that make things seem odd is the whole "official" announcement, the people who apparently have had it announced to, and the news posting of 3:33pm just makes the mind work in overdrive."
"Think about how many people this has captivated.
For starters, fans of SK are already concerned about this news.
Then you have the people who are more for Nintendo but dont really care about SK, this news still has caught them.
Last but not least, PS2 and Xbox owners. The news has hit them that SK have the ability to develop for there consoles.
Then imagine: BAM! Your hit with the news that this was a big "lie", and this kind of madness and tom-foolery is what you will see in Eternal Darkness 2.
That would spark interest from ALOT of people towards the game.
In my views, in 7 days time if we havnt seen a press release or official statement from either Nintendo or Silicon Knights, this is just a marketing tactic."
"Oddly enough this is something you can see Dyack pulling off. He's a sneaky bastard and seems to enjoy "talking between the lines" then letting the public interperate what he's said.
Another thing I was thinking about:
IGN, one of the only people to "confirm" this, speculated it was about "creative differences". They pulled that story right from there rear. Going through old and new Dyack interviews, some with Myamoto present, he has confirmed they share the same views and goals as Nintendo. In one of them, Myamoto mentioned how technology was not important and that the gameplay was the main focus, Dyack completly agree'd.
Therefor, why would they split over creative differences? I doubt they did.
Could it have been sales? Eternal Darkness didnt sell well, but im pretty sure Twin Snakes has sold quite well. Even then, sinse when have Nintendo taken into mind what the sales are going to be?
Nintendo have N-Space making Giest, and just looking at N-Space's track-record shows that Nintendo cant be overly concerned about sales there.
As for ED selling poorly, Nintendo aquired SK BECAUSE of ED to begin with. Nintendo commented many times how they like games that do something thats unique and hasnt been done before. Not long after SK was aquired for second party Nintendo confirmed it was because the Sanity Effects of ED impressed them.
Not only was this announcement out of the blue, and not only has there been no "official" word, but there seems no logic behind Nintendos decision. No logic at all.
Then again, when has anything Nintendo have done been logical :/."
Is it far fetched? Yes, of course. But we can still discuss it.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 18, 2004, 05:07:47 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 05:32:11 AM
But it would have been nice if you let them figure it out on their own... ^_^
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 18, 2004, 06:07:55 AM
Quoteindeed, i / we haven't had this much fun since the AgentSeven saga or the gamecube reportcard thread, hell we even got some more quotes to over use ^_^,
I'm glad that some people took the announcement way too seriously though. Drama is comedy gold!
i would do ANYTHING for this news to not be true.
also
Quote
He has been seen logged in, obviously browsing, recently on BOTH of those forums.
i was on when he was, Mario (the forum user) pointed it out to some of us on MSN, Infernal got a screencap of it also
Post by: kpw22 on April 18, 2004, 07:07:11 AM
Wait, does everyone believe these rumors now? Seems like everyday people are converted to believe these. Yep, I've believed them from the start of course.
Post by: Pale on April 18, 2004, 07:44:06 AM
Post by: Gremio on April 18, 2004, 07:47:03 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 08:03:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
Here is the thing that gets me though... Planetgamecube takes pride in their news being truthful. If they know that this is a joke, i would think they would be hard pressed to post it as fact. Also, many of the staffers responses to our ranting seem very serious. I dunno, it obviously wouldn't tarnish their image to us because most of us would laugh, but to joe shmoe news site reader, they would always be like... "Planetgamecube was wrong about the SK thing, they are probably wrong about 'this'" about every news story to come out from now on. I honestly believe that the only way this is really a sanity effect is if Denis pulled a fast on on Jonny and the gang as well...
Or that Johnny is in on the whole thing...
There's a difference between outright lying and pulling a prank...
Post by: Bishman on April 18, 2004, 08:27:44 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
Here is the thing that gets me though... Planetgamecube takes pride in their news being truthful. If they know that this is a joke, i would think they would be hard pressed to post it as fact. Also, many of the staffers responses to our ranting seem very serious. I dunno, it obviously wouldn't tarnish their image to us because most of us would laugh, but to joe shmoe news site reader, they would always be like... "Planetgamecube was wrong about the SK thing, they are probably wrong about 'this'" about every news story to come out from now on. I honestly believe that the only way this is really a sanity effect is if Denis pulled a fast on on Jonny and the gang as well...
You do know that PGC has a good relationship with Denis Dyack?
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 18, 2004, 08:56:45 AM
Quote
Here is the thing that gets me though... Planetgamecube takes pride in their news being truthful. If they know that this is a joke, i would think they would be hard pressed to post it as fact.
Well, it's really only a hunch of ours that it's fact- I mean, what do you expect PGC to do when Dyack himself says it's real? PGC doesn't post rumors as facts, and as it stands right now, it's only a rumor that this is fake. I don't think anyone at PGC knows any more about this than we do. If anything, IGN is the only one with any clue about the actual nature of this situation (especially since every other site reporting the news lists IGN as its source).
Anyway, your intentions are nice, EatChildren, but I think you're trying to find clues in places where they don't exist- Mario did it as a joke in the SK thread.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 09:26:30 AM
I felt it was necessary to use a Bible quote...
Post by: bmfrosty on April 18, 2004, 09:54:06 AM
-bmfrosty
Post by: Zeks on April 18, 2004, 10:08:49 AM
The game was also subtitled "The 13 Chosen souls" in Japan, 12 characters and the player makes 13 .
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 18, 2004, 10:55:20 AM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 18, 2004, 12:07:56 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 18, 2004, 12:42:29 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 18, 2004, 01:06:14 PM
It's strange how Denis never said this wasn't an insanity effect though.
You'd think the company that made ED would be quick to add that if it was actually leaving Nintendo. I'm sure Dyack KNEW that card would be pulled out... so why didn't he deny it from the start and save people all the trouble?
PGC and IGN are also acting very weird about this. You'd think by now they'd have an interview with Denis about it, some more news, anything. I'm sure the questions didn't stop at, "Are you really not exclusive to Nintendo anymore?" in that phone conversation both sites said they had with Dyack for confirmation.
Can you people at PGC get a direct quote from Denis that this isn't an insanity effect? I don't want to think about this any more.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 18, 2004, 01:56:32 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 02:16:14 PM
Post by: savanna03 on April 18, 2004, 02:49:44 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 18, 2004, 03:01:09 PM
Yeah, my post was just a couple more reasons it could be a prank, I guess.
But if it isn't a prank, my post is just pointing out a couple weird things and asking for direct confirmation.
Don't try to corner me, I'm a natural adept at covering my ass.
Post by: Zero on April 18, 2004, 03:23:24 PM
i could be totally wrong, i'm just saying what i think
Post by: Djunknown on April 18, 2004, 03:50:25 PM
But it seems the theories are at a standstill. EatChildren has posted circumstantial evidence, but it can't be disproven either. Quite a few coincidences, but that doesn't quite add up...
E3 can't come soon enough....
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 04:00:55 PM
i disagree...i think it's perfect timing
peeack says:
it's the perfect time to fool around
Mario says:
nows the perfect time to fool around
Post by: Mannypon on April 18, 2004, 04:06:46 PM
Post by: Bishman on April 18, 2004, 04:57:42 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 18, 2004, 05:00:59 PM
Quote
Denis did say that Konami and them would make an orignal game.
Not exactly- Denis said that if they were to collaborate with Konami again, he would like it to be an original game. True, coming from Denis that's almost saying they are collaborating and it is an original game, but the syntax there is crucial- an inference is not a confirmation.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 05:04:27 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 18, 2004, 05:11:18 PM
Well... it would!
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 18, 2004, 05:16:52 PM
Quote
Yes it is, especially when Dyack confirmed that Twin Snakes wasn't going to be the only Ninty/Konami/SK collaboration...
Show me such a confirmation, Bill- your integrity is on the line.
Post by: Mario on April 18, 2004, 05:23:05 PM
April = 4
1+3 = 4
2004 = 4
444, OMG THE HOAX WAS A HOAX.
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 18, 2004, 05:34:13 PM
This is getting stupid to the max.
Post by: Bishman on April 18, 2004, 05:39:02 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 05:39:32 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 18, 2004, 05:46:56 PM
Post by: Mannypon on April 18, 2004, 06:19:55 PM
Post by: Smadte on April 18, 2004, 06:55:18 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 18, 2004, 07:19:57 PM
Post by: Don'tHate742 on April 18, 2004, 07:20:45 PM
"All signs point to yes..."
*after cursing for god knows how long, the 8 ball mysteriously ends up ravaged apart as if some dog was chewing on it*
I believe you guys. It doesn't seem right, smells a little fishy....*coughs up 8 ball answer cube*
Post by: stinkypete on April 18, 2004, 08:10:20 PM
Did anyone else see this ???
The thread about the ED fansites went ballistic and just disapeared.
something creepy going on... or maybe this is an insanity effect!!!
BTW, this is the second thread about SK that gets eaten...
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 08:14:20 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 18, 2004, 08:15:11 PM
The ED fansites thread was the best thread EVAR!
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 18, 2004, 08:15:39 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 18, 2004, 08:15:52 PM
Post by: stinkypete on April 18, 2004, 08:15:54 PM
Everyone, including you were just posting emoticon after emoticon, and some silly comments about Zelda and Ganon.
Well, you sure got me on that one, I was just so psyched about that...
meh.
Post by: Informant on April 18, 2004, 08:21:45 PM
Post by: savanna03 on April 18, 2004, 08:39:35 PM
EA and UBISOFT aint bad choice too.
Post by: SatansNemesis on April 18, 2004, 08:57:53 PM
Thought I'd point that out.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 18, 2004, 09:43:36 PM
I mean, come on... are they seriously that lazy?
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 19, 2004, 04:25:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Akage
WELL EXCUUUUUUSE ME, PRINCESS!
WELL EXCUUUUUSE ME PRINCESS!
Post by: Zero on April 19, 2004, 06:24:32 AM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 19, 2004, 06:51:18 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 19, 2004, 07:15:50 AM
I personally am going to assume that the news is legit. It's better for me to believe that and be surprised if it turns out to be a hoax than to believe it's a hoax and be severely disappointed if it turns out it isn't.
If it is a hoax I wouldn't be surprised if neither PGC or IGN were directly involved. Odds are Denis just called IGN to give them this "news" and PGC was the only other site to actually check the source. I mean cut-and-paste jobs for news on game sites is pretty common.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 07:32:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: yellowfellow
actually, that's from the zelda cartoon... a short found during the "Super Mario Bros. Super Show" starring Captain Lou Albino... i believe
It's also in the Cd-I game(s)...
Post by: CaseyRyback on April 19, 2004, 07:48:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
I think a lot of the "evidence" of this being a prank is pretty weak. SK leaving Nintendo sucks so naturally we don't want to believe it so people are trying to prove it's not true. Naturally if you want to find evidence of a hoax you're going to decide that insignificant stuff is significant. It may be a coincedence that the PGC post was posted at 3:33 but since it's a neat coincedence people are going to claim it as proof of a hoax when it really doesn't prove anything at all.
I personally am going to assume that the news is legit. It's better for me to believe that and be surprised if it turns out to be a hoax than to believe it's a hoax and be severely disappointed if it turns out it isn't.
If it is a hoax I wouldn't be surprised if neither PGC or IGN were directly involved. Odds are Denis just called IGN to give them this "news" and PGC was the only other site to actually check the source. I mean cut-and-paste jobs for news on game sites is pretty common.
I agree with you. If it does turn out to be true it would be amazing and a great marketing ploy, but I doubt it is true
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 19, 2004, 09:19:02 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 09:21:13 AM
Post by: Rhoq on April 19, 2004, 10:17:08 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 11:50:10 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 19, 2004, 12:00:00 PM
wait.........sk and nintendo are splitting?! =O
Post by: vudu on April 19, 2004, 12:00:26 PM
Quoteif you look under news, the last update to the page was may 1, 2003. the last update before that was september 10, 2002. apparently sk doesn't have the greatest webmaster in the world.
Originally posted by: SatansNemesis
If you go to their official web site ( www.siliconknights.com ) they say nothing about the break up.
Thought I'd point that out.
thought i'd point that out.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 12:03:41 PM
Quote
If them posting at 3:33 isn't coincidental thay would have to be in on the joke.
Why couldn't it just be a personal joke from whoever happened to post the article? Just because it was intentional doesn't mean PGC is in on the hoax, if this is one.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 19, 2004, 12:11:38 PM
If that's the case, we've got some tricksy hobbitses on this staff.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 12:34:22 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 19, 2004, 01:45:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: kingvuduQuoteif you look under news, the last update to the page was may 1, 2003. the last update before that was september 10, 2002. apparently sk doesn't have the greatest webmaster in the world.
Originally posted by: SatansNemesis
If you go to their official web site ( www.siliconknights.com ) they say nothing about the break up.
Thought I'd point that out.
thought i'd point that out.
Like someone mentioned on another forum, Twin Snakes was important enough that SK updated their site. I think them breaking from Nintendo would also be important enough for them to take the Nintendo logo down, and besides, it would only take seconds.
Post by: savanna03 on April 19, 2004, 02:16:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_lukeQuote
Originally posted by: kingvuduQuoteif you look under news, the last update to the page was may 1, 2003. the last update before that was september 10, 2002. apparently sk doesn't have the greatest webmaster in the world.
Originally posted by: SatansNemesis
If you go to their official web site ( www.siliconknights.com ) they say nothing about the break up.
Thought I'd point that out.
thought i'd point that out.
Like someone mentioned on another forum, Twin Snakes was important enough that SK updated their site. I think them breaking from Nintendo would also be important enough for them to take the Nintendo logo down, and besides, it would only take seconds.
EXACTLY... remember the RARE fiasco??? RARE updated their site right away and so is NINTENDO.com after they parted ways. but in this situatiom, IGN is the only site that are aware of this situation. it is too strange to let it go and beside, it would be stupid to wait for E3 to make an official announcement.
back to IGN, they knew RARE was leaving but they put it under rumour until NINTENDO made it official. but in this case IGN made it a news before NINTENDO made it an official... this doesn't add up. shouldn't a company call a press conference first before any publication could report the news. that bothers me. all we know that IGN contact DYACK and a NINTENDO REPRESENTATIVE for the news but it doensn't sound official to me. not just yet.
also, i dont think stock would affect both companies because there are no official announcement. until there are no press conferrence, i aint sold yet.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 19, 2004, 04:38:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: stinkypete
WHOA !!!
Did anyone else see this ???
The thread about the ED fansites went ballistic and just disapeared.
something creepy going on... or maybe this is an insanity effect!!!
BTW, this is the second thread about SK that gets eaten...
umm.. It was just moved somewhere more appropriate: http://www.planetgamecube.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=18&threadid=8799
And I'm tired of keeping my mouth shut, so I'll spill the beans here. The story is TRUE to the best of our knowledge. If anyone is playing a hoax, it's Denis, but I really doubt that he is.
3:33 was absolutely pure coincidence. Jonny didn't know that was the timestamp until HOURS later when someone pointed it out to him.
We haven't said anything until now because this whole conspiracy theory is just way too funny, and Jonny thought he'd sit back and watch while everyone went off the deep end.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 19, 2004, 04:42:25 PM
Well, IF everything mentioned in this or other threads on the subject is pure conicidence, then I still believe there is SOME evil force at work (Denis eats sandwiches omg). I think an evil version of Popeye the sailor man has infiltrated you so-damn-pwnd box.
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO POPEYE
(and my mommy doens't allow me in the deep end =o)
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 04:45:06 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 05:08:40 PM
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 19, 2004, 05:12:15 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 05:14:56 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 19, 2004, 05:26:29 PM
Post by: Pale on April 19, 2004, 05:27:43 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 19, 2004, 05:30:20 PM
Dan: Has PGC spoken with Nintendo yet? Because obviously the president of a company can't be taken at his word.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 05:35:58 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 19, 2004, 05:36:40 PM
I just wanted to hear the official response from IGN.... I still think its legit and SK is gone, but i dont agree with Matt. He says Nintendo would simply wait till E3. Why? Wouldnt that be negative when they need a positive E3 Showing?
Post by: Rich on April 19, 2004, 05:37:47 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 05:40:42 PM
Remember that birthday thread Perm made for me a while back, where I said I was 16? Well, I lied- I'm actually 5. Despite the fact that you have absolutely *no* reason to believe me, and every reason *not* to believe me, going by your train of thought you *have* to because I said so. It's straight from the horse's mouth, so you have no choice but to ignore all logic and take what I say as cold hard fact, even though I haven't provided any supporting evidence.
You wouldn't believe, me, would you? So why should you take what IGN and PGC and Gamespot are saying as 100% truth, without even considering the alternative? I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, just that you should keep an open mind- there's no reason not to.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 05:42:56 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 05:45:29 PM
Quote
Call me a blind fanboy if you wish, but it's pretty amazing how adept blind people are in their other senses...
Damn, Bill, don't make me choose which quote of yours I want in my signature- I'm too wishy washy.
Post by: odifiend on April 19, 2004, 05:45:40 PM
Like many, I believe SK isn't really going anywhere; that they'll continue making GCN and its descendents, probably almost exclusively. On paper their third party. But it seems obvious that the break up is real.
When you first read the comments from IGN or even Johnny, HOAX doesn't jump up and slap you in the face. You guys have had to think about it- a hell of a lot to even get ground to stand on. It sounds like denial to me. Many of you are sticking your fingers in your ears.
-Hey, Nintendo says...
-Nope they're lying...
-But Dyack also says...
-INSANITY FX to the max!
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 19, 2004, 05:50:19 PM
Either way, you'd get the same answer from Nintendo...And you'd be nowhere because it doesn't prove one way or the other...That's why I said, "If"
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 05:52:30 PM
Quote
But to get a definite answer you'd have to assume 1) that this is a hoax or 2) it's not...
Either way, you'd get the same answer from Nintendo...And you'd be nowhere because it doesn't prove one way or the other...That's why I said, "If"
That's exactly why you can't go balls to the wall and blindly believe Denis or Nintendo. Well said, Bill.
Post by: odifiend on April 19, 2004, 06:06:27 PM
Look at Nintendo's track record for PR. They either dodge the issue completely or they give you the facts, or a combination of both. The only joking Nintendo PR speech I've read was the incredibly corny one for Mario Golf. They're a business and they handle their news like their money. As they should. Look how much panic this announcement has instill on these forums alone. If stock brokers are a fifth as dramatic as some of the people here, Nintendo's stock should be falling now or in the near future. You know as an online opposer that Nintendo does no f*ck around with their money. Why would they even chance that? Remember when Iwata spoke about his philosophy on video games and Nintendo stock immediately fell? I just don't think a Nintendo PR can afford to confirm a prank just for kicks. That and they're not cool enough to.
Dyack's questionability, I'll give you cuz he likes to mess with people, but not Nintendo.
Edit: Sorry M_C, I started my other response a while ago and got distracted so your post wasn't up there. I am not being close minded to deny what two companies incredibly relevant to the situation have stated. In the much larger SK thread, I was right there when the joke about this being an insanity effect began. It's preposterous in the original sense of the word to think that the joke would be the truth. Therefore, while I hope against hope that this is a prank, it is so unlikely that I barely acknowledge it as a possibility.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 19, 2004, 06:12:00 PM
Post by: Rich on April 19, 2004, 06:24:46 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 19, 2004, 07:45:51 PM
and legends are born(Eternal darkness)."
from eternal darkness
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 19, 2004, 08:15:12 PM
from eternal darkness
Post by: Mannypon on April 19, 2004, 08:20:54 PM
If this is supposedlty true, I dont know what they are waitin for to announce it. E3 is coming so its best to get all negative aspects out beforehand. Also, why would denis come FIRST ( and so far only) online to drop this news where he knows sure well that all it would do is start a huge commotion and whatnot. He also says he cant get into detail on the breakup, what could he be hiding? There are alot of things that dont make sence here and I cant fully back up either side. At this point its anyone's guess at what the truth really is behind all this.
Post by: savanna03 on April 19, 2004, 08:46:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rich
but the thing is odifiend, Nintendo has never officailly said anything about this so their stock hasn't gone down.
EXACTLY... i already pointed this out, i guess no one read it. why would a stock goes down when the company never officially say it??? the prank could still work especially if u pull it out from a site like IGNCUBE.com and not from NINTENDO.com. no harm done and thats the difference. the only way i could think of that NINTENDO would make it official in E3 if SK align with SONY or MICROSOFT and they just waited for them to drop the bomb by them. beside if SK does became 3rd party, i think their relationship is kinda like CAMELOT anyways.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 19, 2004, 08:56:16 PM
It's like the boy who cried wolf, except the boy is SK and the wolf may or may not be an insanity effect.
Post by: Mannypon on April 19, 2004, 08:56:23 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 19, 2004, 09:00:23 PM
.
Post by: anubis6789 on April 19, 2004, 09:10:21 PM
Or maybe my sainity meters a little low, were is my liquid courage.
Post by: almondblight on April 19, 2004, 09:18:05 PM
From the IGN announcement-
"An official announcement from Nintendo is expected in the coming weeks."
Why would we expect an announcement in the coming weeks when we usually get one when everything's official, and if everything wasn't official, Dyack and Nintendo wouldn't be talking about it. So why does ign expect a press release so late? Apparently, they don't know:
From the IGN mailbag-
"So why didn't Nintendo announce it officially? No idea."
So even though it is atypical to expect an announcement so late, IGN is expecting it, because, they have no idea. And hey, planetgamecube seems to be in the same boat:
From the planetgamecube announcement-
"Planet GameCube will be following this story closely, although official details of the developer's future are not expected for some time"
Why not? They either are pulling something out of nowhere or have information they're not spilling. But isn't it amusing that both peices tell us not to expect anything official even though they have no reason as to why they would think nothing official would come?
Also, isn't this weird:
From the ign announcement:
"Dyack confirmed that Silicon Knights is now fully able to develop for competing consoles as well."
Although he can't confirm anything about the split:
From the planetgamecube announcement-
"The real cause of the split is still shrouded in secrecy, however. Dyack could not comment on whether Silicon Knights is now an indepenent developer or if the company has aligned itself with one of Nintendo's competitors, or even if Nintendo currently maintains the investment stake it made in Silicon Knights back in 2000.
" 'Right now, because of the proprietary nature of game development, we can't say much.' "
So he can drop rumors before anything is official and even say that they are free to develop on other platforms but they can't say whether or not they are independent because of "the proprietary nature of game development"? Does that make sense?
Also, from the ign article-
"Nintendo has recently downplayed the role of technology in game creation and has been known to de-emphasize story, graphics and sound in favor of classic play mechanics."
Doesn't this sound a little tongue in cheek? "De-emphasize story, graphics and sound" sounds like something somebody bashing Nintendo would say. I doubt Dyack and Nintendo would come out and tell us, "Well, nintendo doesn't really want to emphasize story, sound, or graphics," and I doubt a Nintendo fansit would say that Nintendo is doing that outside of an editorial.
Not saying it is necessarilly a hoax, though I am saying if it isn't, thee big boys know something they;re not saying.
Post by: Urkel on April 19, 2004, 09:39:32 PM
None of this makes sense. For the past few years Dyack has been nothing but praises for Nintendo. He talks about just how great it was working with Nintendo and Miyamoto. Just two months ago he spoke as though SK and Nintendo were a singular entity. He reiterates on numerous occassions that they're never, EVER going anywhere else, and then... BAM! Third party.
When he spoke to Jonny, he assumed sales of MGS would be good. So if this is about not getting enough sales, he certainly didn't say it. I consider Dyack to be a pretty straight shooter. Why hasn't he just come right out and said anything about this? Why the split? Why now, when two months ago he said this would never happen? What could've possibly happened in the past two months to make him go from "NINTENDO FOREVER!!!" to "we may continue making games for Nintendo"?
I don't think it's entirely fair to sit back and laugh at those believing this is a hoax:
1. Because (and this is aimed at PGC staff) most of us assume you would've set us straight the moment this supposedly ridiculous theory got it's own thread. We respect you guys, and by not saying right away that the 3:33 thing was pure coincidence, that led to speculation that they were on to something and got plenty of people's hopes up. People go to your site to get accurate information, not to be laughed at. I dunno... I guess I just can't find much humor in this latest bit of news.
2. It's friggin' Silicon Knights! If it were any other company, I'd immediately dismiss these rumors. But they made a game where much of the premise revolved around the fact that you don't know what is real, and what is not. I certainly feel that way about this situation.
I think Bill said it best. If this is a joke, then Nintendo would have to be in on this, and Denis obviously would be too. No use in prying information from those two if that information is going to be false anyway.
The way I see it, this theory is pretty far fetched, but so is SK going third party. I don't know, but I'll believe it when I see an official press release from Nintendo.
I'm kind of leaning towards SK's departure as being the cold hard truth, mostly because sites like IGNcube and PGC are finally saying that these rumors are nonsense, instead of just letting people speculate so they can sit back and laugh at them, you rat bastards.
Oh, and want to know something really weird? PGC wasn't the only site that posted the news at 3:33. Gamerfeed did too. Mantorok is watching...
Post by: slacker on April 19, 2004, 10:28:57 PM
Post by: SatansNemesis on April 19, 2004, 10:39:06 PM
I personally believe that they are broken up, but its fun to speculate. Kinda like guessing what your getting for christmas when your parents are professional at hiding the gift in wrapping paper (mine liked to wrap games in old rags so i would think they were sweaters). So leave us speculators to our speculating!
Post by: Mario on April 20, 2004, 04:26:46 AM
Quote
Matt responds: Silicon Knights and Nintendo have ended their exclusive second-party relationship and the developer of Eternal Darkness will make games for other platforms.
So Silicon Knights are no longer second party, they are first party, and they are now developing for GBA/DS/N5 as well.
Post by: almondblight on April 20, 2004, 05:20:08 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Urkel
Oh, and want to know something really weird? PGC wasn't the only site that posted the news at 3:33. Gamerfeed did too. Mantorok is watching...
I should point out that the the odds of that happening naturally are 1 in 720. Though planetgamecube is the only one claiming it to be a coincidence.
Post by: Kasceis on April 20, 2004, 06:40:02 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 07:22:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Matt responds: Silicon Knights and Nintendo have ended their exclusive second-party relationship and the developer of Eternal Darkness will make games for other platforms.
So Silicon Knights are no longer second party, they are first party, and they are now developing for GBA/DS/N5 as well.
Zounds! I say, Holmes, you've cracked the case!
Post by: ThePerm on April 20, 2004, 08:12:37 AM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 20, 2004, 09:47:12 AM
Post by: stinkypete on April 20, 2004, 10:29:12 AM
http://www.1up.com/article2/0,2053,1562480,00.asp
The article speculates it's about hardware technologies, but it could be about game development too.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 01:17:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: almondblightQuote
Originally posted by: Urkel
Oh, and want to know something really weird? PGC wasn't the only site that posted the news at 3:33. Gamerfeed did too. Mantorok is watching...
I should point out that the the odds of that happening naturally are 1 in 720. Though planetgamecube is the only one claiming it to be a coincidence.
Perhaps SK was the one who released it as a press release at 3:33. That would explain why two sites would have it at the same time. Maybe it's just a last farewell to the series they created. If this news is true, and Eternal Darkness does belong to Nintendo, then they are giving it one last tribute.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 01:25:28 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 02:01:37 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 20, 2004, 02:04:27 PM
Quote
What will you do, Bill, if this news turns out to be true? You only seem to own Nintendo systems, or am I wrong?
He'll kill himself. Honestly, what do you EXPECT him to do? It's not as big a deal as a lot of you are making it out to be.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 02:06:51 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 02:23:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clickerQuote
What will you do, Bill, if this news turns out to be true? You only seem to own Nintendo systems, or am I wrong?
He'll kill himself. Honestly, what do you EXPECT him to do? It's not as big a deal as a lot of you are making it out to be.
Bill seems to be adamant in suggesting this news is fake. He wouldn't be doing that if he had multiple systems. Besides, I was looking forward to Too Human, and it had an uncertain future before, and now, who knows if it will even be released!
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 20, 2004, 02:31:59 PM
Quote
Bill seems to be adamant in suggesting this news is fake. He wouldn't be doing that if he had multiple systems.
Bill's like me- he doesn't want you jumping to conclusions. Don't put words in his mouth. Besides, I own a PS2 and plan to get an XBox soon, yet I'm just as "adamant" in trying to get people to at least consider this being a fake. Don't presume that just because we don't believe this 100% means we're pissed off we may never get to play SK games again.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 02:39:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clickerQuote
Bill seems to be adamant in suggesting this news is fake. He wouldn't be doing that if he had multiple systems.
Bill's like me- he doesn't want you jumping to conclusions. Don't put words in his mouth. Besides, I own a PS2 and plan to get an XBox soon, yet I'm just as "adamant" in trying to get people to at least consider this being a fake. Don't presume that just because we don't believe this 100% means we're pissed off we may never get to play SK games again.
Ok, I see. Sorry Bill! I'm "adamant" at getting an X-Box soon anyway, and I didn't mean to imply that you and Bill were fanboys or anything like that.
Post by: Pale on April 20, 2004, 02:48:20 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 03:06:56 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 20, 2004, 03:28:38 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 20, 2004, 03:36:53 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on April 20, 2004, 03:45:47 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 20, 2004, 05:23:49 PM
I was gone all weekend, and I come back to this thread. And it almost made me a believer, but i just can't see Nintendo going along with anything remotely funny or risque.
Post by: Rich on April 20, 2004, 05:27:55 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 20, 2004, 05:31:56 PM
Quote
Yeah I'm starting to feel the same way as Omen, especially after the response I got when I emailed them. although the wierd thing was, the representative didn't know the details. Usually when I write them they say that the details have not yet been announced and garbage, this time they actually haven't told their representatives
Now that makes me think it is a prank. When will I learn?
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 05:40:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaleZer0
Wow
It's just a smiley
Besides, I know when to admit I'm wrong.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 20, 2004, 06:24:37 PM
Post by: Mannypon on April 20, 2004, 06:43:03 PM
Post by: almondblight on April 20, 2004, 06:44:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
Perhaps SK was the one who released it as a press release at 3:33. That would explain why two sites would have it at the same time. Maybe it's just a last farewell to the series they created. If this news is true, and Eternal Darkness does belong to Nintendo, then they are giving it one last tribute.
Well, I was thinking it was probably just someone at PGC doing a tribute...until Bloodworth said this (page 4 of this topic I think):
"3:33 was absolutely pure coincidence. Jonny didn't know that was the timestamp until HOURS later when someone pointed it out to him."
While that is possible, it is a 1 in 720 chance, and the fact that they claim it is a coincidence seems odd to me. Also remember the clues PGC left for the 3/3/03 sanity effect? They have some kinda sneaky in with SK.
Post by: Urkel on April 20, 2004, 10:59:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BillQuote
Originally posted by: MarioQuote
Matt responds: Silicon Knights and Nintendo have ended their exclusive second-party relationship and the developer of Eternal Darkness will make games for other platforms.
So Silicon Knights are no longer second party, they are first party, and they are now developing for GBA/DS/N5 as well.
Zounds! I say, Holmes, you've cracked the case!
You know, that very thought crossed my mind a few times. Just imagine, it's E3 and Nintendo announces "Yes, it's entirely true. Silicon Knights is no longer a Nintendo second party... BECAUSE THEY'RE NOW A NINTENDO FIRST PARTY!"
Everyone cheers and celebrates. All is right with the world.
But maybe that's just more wishful thinking.
Anyway, I'm starting to wonder. If this is real, what does that make Denis Dyack? Was all that love for Nintendo just a facade? Did he end up selling out to the highest bidder the first chance he got? It's stuff like this that is really disillusioning me about the game industry as a whole.
It's the comment he made in that two month old interview that bothers me the most. The one about never, ever leaving Nintendo. I find it hard to believe that something came up all of a sudden in the past two months that made him go from a true believer, to jumping ship. More likely, he was considering this for a while, and was being untruthful about never leaving Nintendo.
In fact, much of what is being claimed now is completely contrary to what Denis has said for the past few years. It seems that Nintendo is saying that there were too many creative differences. Again, contrary to what Denis has said. He made it sound like working with Nintendo was the greatest thing in the world. He always said the SK's philosophy and Nintendo's were the same.
Anyway, back to this being a hoax. It's bizzare how this came completely out of the blue. There are usually a few rumblings when something like this happens, like with Rare. There were absolutely no signs of trouble whatsoever with SK.
I also find Nintendo's response to this a bit out of the ordinary. With Rare, they completely avoided answering the question every way they could for, what? A whole year? They always either gave a "We don't comment on rumors", or doublespeak like "Our relationship with Rare is as good as always". They didn't confirm it until everything was all worked out.
Now, Nintendo is apparantly willing to acknowledge the breakup, and give a reason for it, yet this is before any official press release, and before all the details have been worked out.
Whether this is a hoax or not, it's one incredibly weird situation.
Post by: jmoe316 on April 20, 2004, 10:59:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: almondblight
While that is possible, it is a 1 in 720 chance, and the fact that they claim it is a coincidence seems odd to me. Also remember the clues PGC left for the 3/3/03 sanity effect? They have some kinda sneaky in with SK.
Mind enlightening me and maybe other PGC'ers as to the joke they played on 03/03/03? I am curious.
Post by: Gremio on April 21, 2004, 12:23:13 AM
This is what I got on April 16th, less than 12 hours after I emailed them:
"The information that I have is that Silicon Knights is now free to make games for other platforms. In the past, they developed games exclusively for use on Nintendo systems."
It's kind of funny, because when I asked questions in the past they either answered them straightfowardly (i.e. what date is Pikmin 2 coming out?) or told me to check their website for news updates.
Edit: There was a joke on 3/3/03?
Post by: almondblight on April 21, 2004, 10:40:18 AM
Post by: Rich on April 21, 2004, 11:00:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: GremioRich, is it okay if I ask what kind of response did you get from Nintendo after you emailed them?
This is what I got on April 16th, less than 12 hours after I emailed them:
"The information that I have is that Silicon Knights is now free to make games for other platforms. In the past, they developed games exclusively for use on Nintendo systems."
It's kind of funny, because when I asked questions in the past they either answered them straightfowardly (i.e. what date is Pikmin 2 coming out?) or told me to check their website for news updates.
Here ya go:
Thank you for your e-mail. While I have limited information on the subject of our company and Silicon Knights, I'll be happy to share with you what I know. Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 12:16:50 PM
Post by: Gremio on April 21, 2004, 02:38:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: RichQuote
Here ya go:
Thank you for your e-mail. While I have limited information on the subject of our company and Silicon Knights, I'll be happy to share with you what I know. Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship.
Hah? They gave you a much more clear cut response than they gave me. Oh well. This really makes it sound like they did break up. I wonder what really happened?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2004, 02:39:49 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 21, 2004, 02:41:20 PM
I can see it now:
E3 = EEE and EEE in the mirror is 333. Holy crap! It's a hoax!
Post by: yellowfellow on April 21, 2004, 02:55:36 PM
Quotethis CAN'T BE HAPPENING!!!
E3 = EEE and EEE in the mirror is 333. Holy crap! It's a hoax!
Post by: ruby_onix on April 21, 2004, 02:57:23 PM
By definition, this SK departure news is still "unofficial". Which is weird. I mean, why exactly does SK still have that big glaring red "Nintendo" oval on their site? They could at least take their site down "for maintenance", like Rare did.
But, by the word of IGN (which is widely accepted as gospel), and Denis Dyack (a well-known prankster), and possibly even PGC, "It is official. Just trust us on this. And don't go looking for facts to back it up. Because there don't seem to be any. Uhhh... yet. Just wait a while."
It does seem that there's more evidence at this point to suggest that this news is a hoax, than there is to say that it's real.
And personally, I'm getting a good laugh at people on other boards saying "It's really seriously confirmed to be real now" just because Matt from IGN is now backing up in the letter column what Matt from IGN said in that news item... If the word of IGN isn't law, then two words of IGN must be law, right?
But that doesn't mean that I'm in denial about the possible impact of the loss of SK.
Personally, I think the odd lack of "announcement" on the matter might stem from some kind of natural, normal "contract expiration" which doesn't reflect any sort of shift in attitudes or future by any party, but meant that SK didn't technically qualify for the "second party" label (which I think is a made-up PR term that people put too much faith in) anymore. Of course, Matt from IGN's flat-out claims that "the relationship is over" and "SK is already making games for competing consoles as we speak" doesn't click with that theory. But then again, we just go back to not having enough info, and not knowing what counts as "editorial" and "speculation" on the matter.
Post by: ThePerm on April 21, 2004, 03:02:50 PM
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 21, 2004, 03:34:37 PM
And then at the end they'd release a video saying "hay whoops our b" and have Denis and Miyamoto giving each other a big hug. And then drop support for xbox and ps2 and rejoin nintendo.
that way they'd have everyone fooled. *eats more toothpaste*
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 21, 2004, 03:53:37 PM
If SK goes multiplatform, we'd skip 2 console generations and wait 3x the eternity for the next original game.
Post by: Rich on April 21, 2004, 04:44:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: KnowsNothingI think SK should break up with Nintendo and get the media on it and have a ton of official announcements and make it 100% real. Then they could announce ED2 for xbox, gc, and ps2.
And then at the end they'd release a video saying "hay whoops our b" and have Denis and Miyamoto giving each other a big hug. And then drop support for xbox and ps2 and rejoin nintendo.
that way they'd have everyone fooled. *eats more toothpaste*
HAHAHAHAHA thats great. That would be hilarious.
Post by: Kasceis on April 22, 2004, 07:26:55 AM
Wondering...
Fearing...
Doubting...
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 22, 2004, 10:26:48 AM
Actually, I posted in the wrong topic... ^_^;
Post by: Pale on April 22, 2004, 10:34:24 AM
Post by: Kasceis on April 22, 2004, 10:55:36 AM
You are whicked(Us), but I am more whicked than you. (Dennis)
Now you Architect(Bill), you are about to make your largest contribution.(him believing)
Post by: Dazzybee on April 26, 2004, 02:40:03 PM
Post by: Rich on April 26, 2004, 03:29:30 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 26, 2004, 07:02:45 PM
But seriously, why is there still no comment from Nintendo? Letting this fester this long with E3 so close really seems dumb. Dumber than usual.
Post by: Syl on April 27, 2004, 11:51:34 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 27, 2004, 11:56:21 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 27, 2004, 12:22:54 PM
from Metal Gearl Solid: The Twin Snakes.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 27, 2004, 12:48:08 PM
Maybe Nintendo thinks it's good news. Can't you imagine Iwata with a silly grin on his face saying "we are pleased to announce that we are no longer involved with Silicon Knights. Their focus on 'mature content' and 'story' is not the future. With them out of the way we are free to decidate our resources to new types of gaming that attract a wider audience. We are confident we can accomplish this with our new line of lever pulling games."
Hmmm. I started this post as a joke and now I'm actually worried about that really happening.
Post by: GaimeGuy on April 27, 2004, 01:05:12 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 27, 2004, 01:15:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
If Nintendo and SK have really split, though, it's very stupid to wait until E3 to properly announce it because it will drag down all the good news they have. If this is true, Nintendo should have either said absolutely nothing about it before E3 or at the very least had their statement and gotten it over with long before E3 started at all. They did neither.
Exactly. That would be a weird decision I'm sure even Nintendo would not make. Besides, what is most suspicious about this news is that IGN listed another SK game would be shown at E3, and then the game was taken off the list when this news came. That is fishy, considering IGN makes sure to confirm which games will be there.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 27, 2004, 02:06:42 PM
If someone wants to get a little more info out of Mr. Dyack, why not challenge him to a full-contact Tae Kwan Do match?
Post by: Dazzybee on April 28, 2004, 10:48:49 AM
This is so crap!!! Do people still believe its a sanity effect? I think the bad news is usually the right news.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 28, 2004, 11:21:41 AM
Quote
I think the bad news is usually the right news.
I've got some bad news- you're ignorant.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 28, 2004, 05:22:58 PM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 28, 2004, 06:40:18 PM
Quoteat this point they will probably also reveal the plans for the N5 controller. Ergodynamic, Retro-cool, and SIMPLE.
Maybe Nintendo thinks it's good news. Can't you imagine Iwata with a silly grin on his face saying "we are pleased to announce that we are no longer involved with Silicon Knights. Their focus on 'mature content' and 'story' is not the future. With them out of the way we are free to decidate our resources to new types of gaming that attract a wider audience. We are confident we can accomplish this with our new line of lever pulling games."
go go MS Paint!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 28, 2004, 07:09:48 PM
Look at that form, that style!
With the added rumble features, it'll be more 'friendly' than the "Rez vibration device."
Post by: The Omen on April 29, 2004, 06:41:36 AM
Post by: vudu on April 29, 2004, 08:05:24 AM
Quotecheck again...the website hasn't been updated since mgs:tt was announced. that's almost a year ago.
I know the webmaster hasn't changed it since MGS:TT was released
Post by: Rhoq on April 29, 2004, 08:33:39 AM
I have tons of pages floating around in CyberSpace that haven't been updated in years. Although for a professional organization/company you would think they would have updated the site by now with information regarding what's going on with Nintendo and/or remove the Ninntendo logo if they are infact no longer an exclusive 2nd party.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 29, 2004, 10:59:50 AM
The last time the site was updated was last year, concerning MGSTTS, after its E3 debut. The last update prior to that, concerned Eternal Darkness' release, which was another year earlier. So, we might just get another quick, ANNUAL, E3 site update.
Post by: ThePerm on April 29, 2004, 02:18:30 PM
Oh and gamimeguy..i never heard of eternal darkness for psx being devloped ever...it pretty much seemed like a nintendo created project for sk. what i mean is..its what sk started to make as soon as they got 64 dev kits.
Post by: Dazzybee on April 30, 2004, 10:44:13 AM
Post by: The Omen on May 03, 2004, 06:04:45 AM
Secondly, IGN and PGC havent reported a single blurb since the announcement. Had this been real, they would be after Denis like a hunting hound. Even if they received a 'Cannot comment at this time' from Denis, they still have a semi-update. And they would post it.
Third, Nintendo is silent. Even as E3 approaches, they have yet to elaberate on anything that has transpired. Nintendo says they will comment in the coming weeks. Waiting until E3 can only be good news, not a split up. SK says"when the paperworks finalized..." If its already been leaked to the public by SKs own Denis, then why would there still be paperwork left over? SK must be closer to Nintendo now then they were, making that exclusive contract useless, because they are a first party. You don't need a contract -with yourself.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 03, 2004, 06:15:34 AM
Post by: OG_OriginalGamer on May 03, 2004, 08:02:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: The Omen
I hate to beat a very dead horse, but I will anyway. The longer this goes, the more inclined I am to believe this is a hoax. The SK website still has the Nintendo logo on it. And I know it's rarely updated, but I believe thats because theres rarely news. 2 games worth of news from SK is all theres really been. When your company breaks off a relationship with another, then you would remove that companies name from your website, quickly.
Secondly, IGN and PGC havent reported a single blurb since the announcement. Had this been real, they would be after Denis like a hunting hound. Even if they received a 'Cannot comment at this time' from Denis, they still have a semi-update. And they would post it.
Third, Nintendo is silent. Even as E3 approaches, they have yet to elaberate on anything that has transpired. Nintendo says they will comment in the coming weeks. Waiting until E3 can only be good news, not a split up. SK says"when the paperworks finalized..." If its already been leaked to the public by SKs own Denis, then why would there still be paperwork left over? SK must be closer to Nintendo now then they were, making that exclusive contract useless, because they are a first party. You don't need a contract -with yourself.
First party, that just might be what it is. Maybe SK has been picked up by Nintendo entirely, Denis may just have to sign the papers to make it official. They would announce it at E3(if true) and what ever game they were working on. Denis would have to sale his portion of SK to Nintendo, theres also certain kinks that would have to be worked out to make it complete.
Post by: SgtShiversBen on May 03, 2004, 08:51:51 AM
P.S. Never Happening (just wanted to see what that does, I said "m3g@t0N")
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 03, 2004, 09:43:15 AM
Post by: Bloodworth on May 03, 2004, 09:56:40 AM
In other words, you can very much say that the news isn't official, but that doesn't mean it's not real.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 03, 2004, 10:03:38 AM
Post by: Rich on May 03, 2004, 07:40:05 PM
Post by: Mannypon on May 04, 2004, 04:16:54 PM
Post by: Syl on May 04, 2004, 06:05:29 PM
...its been a while since anyone has even talked of the matter, hasn't it?
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 04, 2004, 06:18:24 PM
Post by: Rich on May 04, 2004, 06:48:20 PM
Post by: EatChildren on May 05, 2004, 05:24:13 AM
Yep, 7 days to go till we all learn the horrible (maybe) truth.
Post by: The Omen on May 06, 2004, 07:43:07 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 06, 2004, 08:19:49 PM
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on May 06, 2004, 08:27:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
It's almost E3 time, so just keep your socks on... ^_^
My socks have already been knocked off!
Post by: Gamecubivore on May 07, 2004, 04:43:25 AM
. . . *is secretly hopeful*
Post by: Gamecubivore on May 07, 2004, 08:48:24 PM
Of course it could have been locked for any number of reasons. . . but. . .
Post by: Mannypon on May 07, 2004, 09:49:53 PM
That's why Matt broke the story. Cause IGN ****ed up, end of story."
this was posted on the e3 section but I brought it here since it relates to this story and its somethin I dont think anyone has touched on yet here. Aint sure who said this cuase I quoted it from a qoute lol but just addin more wood to the fire.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 07, 2004, 10:02:52 PM
Post by: savanna03 on May 08, 2004, 08:07:35 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on May 08, 2004, 09:29:04 AM
Post by: savanna03 on May 08, 2004, 09:51:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
Sorry but that seems absurd to me. Why not simply take off the SK Game from the E3 list instead? Why would IGN make a up an entirely new story, that could hurt Nintendo, to cover their own mistake, and then have Nintendo go along with it? Seems like wishfull thinking. Silicon Knights are gone folks, unless something shocking happens in the next week.
uhmmm... NINTENDO didn't go along with it. the last time i heard that there were no official announcement therefore the stock wont change because the investor weren't awere about it. MATT from IGN said that the official announcement are going to be sometime in the future until the papers are sign but the problem is, why did they claim it as a news when nothing are sign and official yet. it just doesn't make sense when a fansite get the heads up first before the official source. plus BLOODWORTH i think from PLANETGAMECUBE claim it was true story from one of the tread that it was coming from DYACK himself from a "phone conversation." no press conference but "phone conversation."
either way... if it ends up true, i wont stress about it cuz i can finally afford two console next time around anyways.
Post by: almondblight on May 08, 2004, 10:15:29 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on May 08, 2004, 10:52:57 AM
Email Nintendo Customer Service and ask them... their response is the same as Dydacks... this is too large to be a legitimate conspiracy... Someone would have talked... Silicon Knights are gone folks
Post by: mouse_clicker on May 08, 2004, 10:53:12 AM
Quote
Don't people normally get in trouble for leaking information like this before it is finalized?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that an NDA is a legally binding contract that prohibits those involved from talking about something. If they break an NDA, lawsuits could be in order, especially if it does some damage.
Quote
Sorry but that seems absurd to me. Why not simply take off the SK Game from the E3 list instead? Why would IGN make a up an entirely new story, that could hurt Nintendo, to cover their own mistake, and then have Nintendo go along with it? Seems like wishfull thinking. Silicon Knights are gone folks, unless something shocking happens in the next week.
Eh, that's not the only explanation- in fact, it's probably the worst explanation so far, so don't dismiss the entire hoax case just because this particular musing was off. I doubt IGN initiated it at all.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 08, 2004, 11:07:15 AM
Ahahahaha!
Post by: John Cena on May 08, 2004, 01:10:09 PM
Post by: odifiend on May 08, 2004, 02:46:16 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 08, 2004, 07:13:02 PM
But to hear IGN say it, "Nintendo and SK are done with each other. They split up. That's it. It's over. Finished. SK is making PS2 games as we speak."
Which is probably why we aren't too keen on believing them when they say "It's really official, trust us, but don't go looking for proof, because there isn't any."
And then they laugh at us when we doubt them, spouting our "crazy theories".
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 08, 2004, 08:05:40 PM
I think they're still bitter over the whole online thing.
This wouldn't be a problem if they didn't pull stuff out of their ass that makes Nintendo look bad... remember the whole "Factor 5 leaving" fiasco?
Post by: Mannypon on May 08, 2004, 08:45:44 PM
took this from the e3 forum, seems interesting if he really said it.
Post by: Urkel on May 08, 2004, 09:07:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
NINTENDO didn't go along with it
Email Nintendo Customer Service and ask them... their response is the same as Dydacks... this is too large to be a legitimate conspiracy... Someone would have talked... Silicon Knights are gone folks
Which is what leads me to believe this is a hoax. When has Nintendo Customer Service ever confirmed something before any official statement? Never, to my knowledge. The fact that they're using the same response as Dyack's doesn't neccessarily mean anything. If it is a hoax, I would imagine both parties would've gotten together to get their stories straight.
I also find it strange how this arguably large piece of news has seemingly fallen off the radar. Sure, Nintendo forums are ablaze about this, but where are the "Nintendo is doomed because they lost SK" knee-jerk editorials that usually pop up when something like this happens?
As for the reason why Nintendo would do something so cool as to create a hoax, when it's not in their nature to be so cool... I think that's the point. Supposedly Nintendo plans on trying to change its image at E3, and pulling off a stunt like this would be a good start. Just imagine, what would be the only black mark on Nintendo's E3 showing this year, and it's just a joke. And a great one at that.
Anyway, it's not like I'm so certain I would bet my life on it, it's just that nothing adds up. My only two conclusions at this point are:
1. The gaming media are doing a piss-poor job of following up on this bombshell story.
2. The gaming media are doing a piss-poor job of following up on this bombshell story purposely, because it's a hoax.
Oh, and in the latest issue of Nintendo Power, they said they hoped on bringing info on SK's next big project soon. Makes you wonder...
Post by: ruby_onix on May 09, 2004, 12:05:36 AM
Quote
Oh, and in the latest issue of Nintendo Power, they said they hoped on bringing info on SK's next big project soon. Makes you wonder...
Quite. It's been almost two months since this dustup, and I get my latest Nintendo Power (the June issue, #180), and right there in the letter column it has...
Quote
KNIGHTLY PROGRESS
Has Nintendo any plans to produce another episode of Eternal Darkness in the near future? And what has become of the Silicon Knights studios that produced this game?
Steve N.
Via the Internet
There have been no announcements about another Eternal Darkness game, but you never know what may happen. The talented folks at Silicon Kinghts are still making games, though. They recently teamed up with Konami to make Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes for GCN--the game was released in March. We hope to bring you news on Silicon Knights's next big project soon!
If a split with SK is in the works, and Nintendo knows it's coming, they're doing a pretty lousy job of getting us ready for the bad news...
Post by: odifiend on May 09, 2004, 04:47:20 AM
Still it kinda of sounds like Nintendo Power is out of the loop for whatever reason. The cheeriness that i think ruby_onix is refering to just gives it that feel.
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 09, 2004, 05:33:07 AM
Post by: Chongman on May 09, 2004, 06:00:36 AM
almost time for E3 guys....
me be all jittery!!
I can see why some ppl are so ardent to believe that, yes, SK is gone, but you can't deny there's reason for doubt. All of these tiny little facts add up to a large pile of doubt, and if you can't see that then YOU'RE in denial. Whatever happens, will happen at E3. Until then, for all we know, SK is really gone. If they are, E3 will be the final nail in the coffin that tells of SK gc support.
Post by: Oldskool on May 09, 2004, 08:58:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
Nintendo Power changed a while back...They now review "M" rated games...
Yeah,, but they always give warnings and stuff before doing walkthroughs and specials for "M" rated games. "But be warned, this game is rated M and is not for the faint of heart."
Unfortunatly, the US doesn't have a major unofficial Ninty magazine. But Britian has 2 or 3 big unofficial ones aswell as the official one! NGC is particularily good, it is the successor to the also excellent N64 magazine.
Post by: Rich on May 09, 2004, 09:36:02 AM
Post by: Mannypon on May 09, 2004, 10:34:51 AM
lookin at this quote I would have to say he is referring to us and that one lines speaks volumes.
Post by: savanna03 on May 09, 2004, 02:35:29 PM
DS, NEW TITLES, NEW SURPRISE, METROID PRIME: ECHOES and RESIDENT EVIL 4... oh i just cant wait.
oh and about the COSTUMER SERVICE thingie... thank you whoever you are for responding to that 'cuz you just nailed it perfectly. oh and NINTENDO POWER thingie... heeeeeeeeeell yeaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Post by: The Omen on May 10, 2004, 05:07:09 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 10, 2004, 09:49:10 AM
Post by: odifiend on May 12, 2004, 12:13:11 AM
It is possible that Nintendo was trying to drown the news in all their good news. The DS is damn impressive, as are their scheduled games and revamped Zelda (supposedly running on WW engine).
But the revamped Zelda- Nintendo purposely let it spread that the next game would use the WW engine causing their whole audience to look for cel-shading. Proving that Nintendo can control and suprise us. Much like a certain other company. That was bordering on prank for Nintendo and was a dang cool one too. It seems I underestimated their coolness.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 12, 2004, 12:36:54 AM
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 12, 2004, 12:47:53 AM
It does use the WW engine... just modified.
Tricky word play... I'm hoping that's what the whole SK thing is too.
Didn't Matt say something about the skeptics being justified? I want to know exactly what he was talking about...
And, heh, this is as good a place to throw this in as any... I'm hoping Denis is the new secret developer of Zelda. Everything would fit if that were true.
Post by: Gremio on May 12, 2004, 02:44:49 AM
Post by: Gamecubivore on May 12, 2004, 10:11:17 AM
I just would not bet on it. I still think it's quite possible that Silicon Knights is really gone too.
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 13, 2004, 01:22:11 AM
"It COULD happen... but then again, maybe it... COULDN'T?
" Nothing personal, I just thought it was funny.
Post by: savanna03 on May 13, 2004, 03:55:02 PM
"IGN: What happened to Silicon Knights?
Perrin Kaplan: They are going to continue the business of what they do. We respect the work that they have done. They are a really, really good team. I just think Nintendo and Silicon Knights have slightly different priorities, which does happen in business quite frequently. But we have a lot of mutual respect for each other.
IGN: We just bumped into Denis Dyack, president of Silicon Knights, as he was on his way into a Nintendo meeting. So what kind of plot are you hatching?
Perrin Kaplan: There is nothing that precludes us from having a relationship. I mean, they may make a product for DS or otherwise. But it's just purely as a second-party -- that part of the relationship has changed."
i guess this seal the deal huh... from what i understand, SK is now a 3rd party except NINTENDO still publish some or all of their games. thats why i kinda understand why NINTENDO didn't made a big deal about it because they still have a strong relationship compared to LEFT FIELD and RARE.
so im indeed excited for SK's next product which NINTENDO POWER refers to.
Post by: Mannypon on May 13, 2004, 04:02:08 PM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on May 13, 2004, 04:17:27 PM
Post by: NintendoFanGirl on May 14, 2004, 04:47:00 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 14, 2004, 05:43:55 AM
Post by: Mannypon on May 14, 2004, 09:43:06 AM
Post by: MysticGohan24 on May 14, 2004, 10:27:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Poor girl, always being mistaken for a guy...
lol I was correct
( just wasn't sure ) as I hate to make the mistake, but still i was right
Post by: odifiend on May 17, 2004, 10:08:54 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on May 17, 2004, 08:33:56 PM
Post by: Jukeoncampus on May 18, 2004, 05:33:17 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 18, 2004, 10:18:18 AM
Post by: odifiend on May 18, 2004, 11:21:14 AM
Man, tell us what is going on. Dyack seen walking to a Nintendo meeting? So very peculiar. Still it sounds like when they left the did so on good terms.
I want my official announcement! Do they do official announcements if a relationship doesn't change?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 18, 2004, 11:39:59 AM
*o*
Post by: ruby_onix on May 18, 2004, 01:51:16 PM
Quote
Did SK get mentioned at E3?
Not significantly. All we got was IGN's interview with Perrin Kaplan (which was just mentioned a page back).
It has two questions, and each has something to contribute.
Quote
IGN: What happened to Silicon Knights?
Perrin Kaplan: They are going to continue the business of what they do. We respect the work that they have done. They are a really, really good team. I just think Nintendo and Silicon Knights have slightly different priorities, which does happen in business quite frequently. But we have a lot of mutual respect for each other.
This suggests that yes, something did happen to the SK/Nintendo relationship, and that Perrin is of the opinion that it had to do with "slightly different priorities".
Quote
IGN: We just bumped into Denis Dyack, president of Silicon Knights, as he was on his way into a Nintendo meeting. So what kind of plot are you hatching?
Perrin Kaplan: There is nothing that precludes us from having a relationship. I mean, they may make a product for DS or otherwise. But it's just purely as a second-party -- that part of the relationship has changed.
IGN's question here and Perrin's first two sentences suggest that Denis Dyack attended some sort of secret meeting (don't you just love how they always hold the "secret meetings" just outside of the earshot of several thousand reporters?) with Nintendo that may have been about the NDS, which may or may not indicate that SK has plans for the NDS (which is more than we know about anything else that they might be working on, for any console.
Perrin's third sentence of that second question seems to make no grammatical sense, and suggests that SK has become a second party. That could be some sort of typo on IGN's part. Or it could be a slip-up from Perrin. Or it could be some sort of deliberate misdirection from Perrin. Or it could be that SK has become a second party to Konami, or at least someone willing to make games for a Nintendo handheld, like Microsoft.
(But Perrin's third sentence suggests again that something DID change.)
Post by: SatansNemesis on May 18, 2004, 02:02:12 PM
Post by: Mannypon on May 18, 2004, 02:29:35 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on May 18, 2004, 03:14:06 PM
Quote
If you look at that scentence it does make a little sence...
How? It's just... laid out wrong. The only way to make it make sense, is to start changing words around in it. At which point it's amazingly easy to make it say practically anything.
Actually, looking at it deeper, I think I see how it could work, with just some extra punctuation marks. Like:
Quote
Perrin Kaplan: There is nothing that precludes us from having a relationship. I mean, they may make a product for DS or otherwise. But... "it's just purely as a second-party?" -- that part of the relationship has changed.
Something like that might work. But it still doesn't tell us very much.
Post by: odifiend on May 18, 2004, 03:24:46 PM
Kaplan has pretty much just reenforced what was leeked before E3:
1) Relationship changed (more specifically SK isn't 2nd party anymore)
2) they still might make games for nintendo, though she did instill more confidence for me that Dennis wasn't just saying that to be polite- it sounded like the "yeah, i'll totally call you back," of the video game world.
Still no real answers.
Post by: KDR_11k on May 18, 2004, 09:12:05 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 18, 2004, 09:28:43 PM
Post by: Gremio on May 19, 2004, 01:42:53 AM
I have no idea.
Edit: edited for clarity (hopefully). Not making much sense tonight, methinks.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 19, 2004, 07:17:57 AM
Just because Miyamoto can't help them doesn't mean that Nintendo the company can't. They still could fund SK's projects so it's not like SK would need to search for another publisher in that scenario.
Post by: BlackGriffen on May 19, 2004, 07:25:51 AM
As for the disagreement, I'd bet I know where that lies, too. Denis and crew probably wanted to go in certain mature directions with Too Human or some other title that Nintendo, though willing to let others publish, is still not comfortable putting its relatively family friendly brand upon. That's right, if Dyack wanted to explore sexual themes in ED2 or TH, I don't think Nintendo would want their name on it directly. Blasphemous/controversial religious content may supplement that as well (more doubtful, considering ED).
If this is true, then I think that Nintendo is making a mistake. Instead of trying to keep the Nintendo brand holy, Nintendo should be making a "sub-brand." The readiest analogy that comes to my mind is Disney (kid friendly parent company) and Touchstone (mature content owned by Disney).
Now that I think about it, that, too, may have been the point of contention. Nintendo may have wanted to "expand" SK's brand for use by other Nintendo publishing houses, rather than attempting to build one from scratch (ignoring the obvious choice of the wholly owned brand "Retro Studios" for a moment). Perhaps some deal where SK publishes the work in name. SK, protective of its name, refuses, and their ways part somewhat. This option seems a little more far fetched, though.
We'll see, though.
BlackGriffen
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2004, 07:40:43 AM
On the other hand, does a dev house using Nintendo as a publisher count as a second party? Many devs, even large ones like Namco, get published by Nintendo.
Post by: Shadow Fox on May 19, 2004, 05:55:14 PM
QuoteIn many cases, that would make developers like Treasure technically "second party".
Originally posted by: KDR_11k
On the other hand, does a dev house using Nintendo as a publisher count as a second party? Many devs, even large ones like Namco, get published by Nintendo.
Unlikely though; as that developer has worked for Capcom, Take-Two, Atari, and even Viacom in the past.
-Official Ninja of PGC
Post by: WesDawg on May 19, 2004, 07:39:18 PM
Post by: The Omen on May 20, 2004, 02:55:38 AM
Quote
Have any of you considered that this may have been a negotiating tactic?
Yes. I did. Its around this thread or another somewhere.
Post by: Gremio on May 24, 2004, 03:05:53 AM
http://the-magicbox.com/gaming.htm
Post by: Mario on May 24, 2004, 03:17:07 AM
Quote
Silicon Knights is working on a new Xbox title, which will be officially announced in summer 2004.
OMGWTF
Post by: Hybrid Hunter on May 24, 2004, 03:23:56 AM
My thoughts similiarly Mario!
I guess we can only hope that its going to be on Gamecube too.
Post by: Gremio on May 24, 2004, 03:52:07 AM
Sometimes I feel like giving up on gaming completely and just sticking with playing my old systems. I could probably hunt down a lot of games I never got into for my SNES and Saturn. A lot less headache. Ticks me off.
Post by: anubis6789 on May 24, 2004, 05:46:45 AM
I still think that the Magic Box is a mostly reliable news site and I check them everyday, its just that I know not everything I read there is true.
Again I want reiterate that while this may be true, I think everone should see if anyother sites report this before you believe this.
Post by: ruby_onix on May 24, 2004, 02:23:15 PM
IGN XBox's "Off The Record"
Post by: Ian Sane on May 24, 2004, 06:15:38 PM
The hell with that idea. Two of the main reasons I bought a Gamecube were Rare and Silicon Knights. If MS has now bought away BOTH of them I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of f*cking me over. Obviously the strategy is partially to use these developers to lure over Cube owners. I'm not going to fall for that and I don't care if I miss out on a few games. I bought a Cube expecting exclusive games from both of those developers and if they're going to "alter the deal" on me I'm not going to go along with it. I didn't buy an Xbox for Rare (even though Conker is looking really tempting) and I won't buy one for Silicon Knights either.
To me switching sides midway through a generation is a royal screwjob on the fans. It's not fair to expect us to buy another console after assuring us that one was all we needed.
Post by: Rich on May 24, 2004, 06:32:27 PM
Post by: Gremio on May 24, 2004, 08:20:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ruby_onix
The apparent source of the SK-XBox rumor:
IGN XBox's "Off The Record"
Argh. I swear, if they got this SK-Xbox "news" from a rumor (and the-magicbox isn't even reporting it as a rumor!) I'm never trusting any news from that site again!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 24, 2004, 10:01:43 PM
I employ this method when "read" (haha) NP, and PB. Same goes for some websites.
Post by: Urkel on May 24, 2004, 11:40:13 PM
If SK is merely going multiplatform, and will continue to support the Cube, fine. As long I get Too Human, it's not that big of a deal. If not... sigh...
The sad part is, SK was supposed to have a Cube game at E3. Coupled with Denis saying he would never leave Nintendo, I suspect that he was offered a huge money hat from Microsoft at the last minute. I swear, if Dyack does a complete 180 and starts badmouthing Nintendo like Ken Lobb did, I'll never trust what anybody in the game industry says.
"Nintendo Rocks!"
2 months later...
"Come to think of it, they don't. Do you like my hat? It's made of MONEY! Would you like to stay for lunch? I think we're having MONEY!"
I fear that this is starting to become a trend. Let Nintendo nurture your company from obscurity, then leave and start working for the competition. Square and Rare did this. I hope this isn't the case here.
Post by: Hybrid Hunter on May 25, 2004, 04:39:44 AM
I'd hate it if that happened.
Post by: The Omen on May 25, 2004, 07:09:47 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on May 25, 2004, 08:02:45 AM
Denis owns a freaking business, and part of owning a business is making money. Sk's games seem better suited to the x-box and PS2 demographic, and I can see, from a business stand point why Denis would do this.
I honestly think SK's games will sell better on a differant console, and this alone justifies any such decision.
As they say, make hay when the sun shines.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2004, 08:25:42 AM
I understand that perfectly but telling the fans that you're going to be Gamecube exclusive and then jumping ship midway through is a pretty dick-headed thing to do. At least wait until the next gen to switch sides so that the fans feel happy with their purchase. Odds are in that situation they'll be more willing to switch sides with you. Square did that with the Playstation and it worked out fine. They didn't release a few N64 games and then jump ship.
Considering they get money from Nintendo I imagine they could easily tough it out for the rest of this gen and then rethink their options. That's a much more professional way to do things than telling the fanbase you're leaving but without providing any reasons for it and having us all freak out. SK is treating us like crap with all this secrecy and speculation and Denis basically was lying the whole time when he assured us that they were going to be with Nintendo for a long time.
Business decisions are one thing but this whole situation is reaking of Microsoft's "screw the consumers" attitude. There are much better ways to handle this sort of thing without coming across as a bunch of jerks.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on May 25, 2004, 12:21:39 PM
Not if they feel their next game will sell better on another system it isnt. Sk owes Nin fans nothing IMO, the dismal sales of both
ED and MGSTTS give SK every right to pursue other avenues.
"At least wait until the next gen to switch sides so that the fans feel happy with their purchase. Odds are in that situation they'll be more willing to switch sides with you. Square did that with the Playstation and it worked out fine. They didn't release a few N64 games and then jump ship."
Too much may be at stake to wait. Especially if the game is Too Human for example. Risking releasing it as a NIN exclusive, after all the time that has been spent on it could be financial suicide.
"Considering they get money from Nintendo I imagine they could easily tough it out for the rest of this gen and then rethink their options. That's a much more professional way to do things than telling the fanbase you're leaving but without providing any reasons for it and having us all freak out. "
For all me know this $$$ amount could be peanuts, giving them yet another reason to run.
As for the fanbase, sales dictate that the number is small, and from a business standpoint can be considered expendable.
"Business decisions are one thing but this whole situation is reaking of Microsoft's "screw the consumers" attitude. There are much better ways to handle this sort of thing without coming across as a bunch of jerks."
Its not just MS, competition is so tough in almost every sector, making this the must have mentality if a company wants to survive long term. A jerk in business is far better off than a nice guy on the unemployment line.
Post by: Gremio on May 25, 2004, 12:50:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
LOL, if the shoe were on the other foot here you guys would be cheering louder than the crowd at the Swan.
Denis owns a freaking business, and part of owning a business is making money. Sk's games seem better suited to the x-box and PS2 demographic, and I can see, from a business stand point why Denis would do this.
I honestly think SK's games will sell better on a differant console, and this alone justifies any such decision.
As they say, make hay when the sun shines.
There’s no guarantee SK’s game will sell better on the Xbox. Plenty of games have bombed big time on the Xbox. Dino Crisis 3 sold like crap. Crimson Sea sold like crap. Gunvalkyrie sold like crap. Otogi sold like crap. MGS2: Substance sold no better than what Twin Snakes will most likely reach in the long run. Developing for Xbox is just as risky as developing for GCN, unless, of course, you have an established fanbase (as is the case with the Tom Clancy games) or someone has handed out plenty of money hats.
Granted, MGS: TT and Eternal Darkness underpreformed but it’s suprising sales got that far with little to no advertising. Without the internet I wouldn’t have even known that either game existed. I’ve never seen a commercial for either game. I’ve never seen an add or a display at a game store. Heck, there aren’t even boxes for either game on the shelves at any of the Gamestops in my area (and I’ve been to 4 of them). All they put up are 1st party titles and targeted-towards-kids games like Disney’s Magical Mirror and Shrek 2.
If anything I’d understand and would not be bitching if a SK game was announced for PS2. That’s where the largest userbase is and that’s where the biggest potential for profit is.
Post by: Ian Sane on May 25, 2004, 01:04:49 PM
Well I'll give you ED but I wouldn't count MGS since it's not an original SK game and is a glorified port. In that case I'd blame Konami since they made Nintendo and SK do most of the grunt work only to not advertise the game themselves and kill the game's thunder by showing off MGS3. Plus MGS's sales figures weren't in yet when SK announced they were leaving and even if figures were available they were too early for any sane person to base a major decision on. So basically SK has determined that they could make more money on another console because of the sales of ONE GAME. That's jumping the gun in my opinion. I think Nintendo's allowed to goof on the marketing of one game.
And even if SK doesn't owe Nintendo fans anything they certainly owe Nintendo something. The only reason a company like MS is even remotely interested in them is because they're somewhat of a "name" developer. They don't quite have mainstream appeal yet but they have a buzz going with the hardcore crowd and that's entirely because of Nintendo. Regardless of how many copies ED sold SK is now associated with quality in the eyes of the gaming media and with hardcore gamers. That's not much but they certainly are more well known now than the used to be. They're at a stage where one big hit game could make them a powerhouse and they're at the stage that if they put themselves up for sale they would get companies interested. They owe all of that to Nintendo. They were virtually nobody and Nintendo made them somebody and now they're dropping them because of one dud. That's unacceptable. They used Nintendo.
And besides I fail to see how using business logic is going to make me suddenly think it's all cool. I'm a consumer. What the f*ck do I care about how much money these people make? All I care about is that the games I want to play are on the console I buy. I bought a Cube partially because SK said they were going to support it exclusively. Now they're not. They gained my trust and then went back on what they said. That's a perfectly valid reason to be pissed off.
"As for the fanbase, sales dictate that the number is small, and from a business standpoint can be considered expendable."
Hmmm. Dumping your small loyal fanbase for money? I believe that's what's known as selling out.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on May 25, 2004, 03:25:54 PM
Hmmm. Dumping your small loyal fanbase for money? I believe that's what's known as selling out"
I call it good business. As Cuba Gooding Jr. said, "SHOW ME THE MONEY"
Post by: The Omen on May 25, 2004, 05:12:44 PM
Quote
I call it good business. As Cuba Gooding Jr. said, "SHOW ME THE MONEY"
That show me the money attitude is why it pisses people off. Show some spine, work hard on your projects, and your reward will come. Instead, they take money from the biggest corporation in the world. What ever happened to hard work, anyway?
Quote
LOL, if the shoe were on the other foot here you guys would be cheering louder than the crowd at the Swan.
If you mean taking a small company under your wing, nurturing them, and then giving them the advantage and security of being a first party, a part of Nintendo, damn right i'd cheer. That would be the bigger company championing the small company, which by the way, had all the time in the world to create their ONE original game. Unfortunately, SK and Denis arent thinking about that, just a wad of cash up front.(if true, of course) I like how you think SK games will sell better on the Xbox, Cubed, when there have been monumental failures with games that were targeted to the so called 'Xbox demographic'. Its easy to see why SK did this, and it has nothing to do with game sales. And you're right, it's the 'show me the money' attitude. Which sadly is ruining more companies and lives than its helping anything or anyone. That kind of sentiment disgusts me. Jesus, if it were Sony buying SK, i'd have virtually no problems with that decision(except the usual cursing NIN). They would sell more games with Sony for the forseeable future.
Post by: BlackGriffen on May 28, 2004, 10:18:35 AM
Blood Omen: Legacy of Cain (the original game of the series, whatever that was called)
Eternal Darkness
Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes
The first was a critical success, if not sales success. The second was a critical success, and largely developed for the N64, before SK went second party (though even SK admits a good deal of help from Nintendo). The third was, well, you probably know about the third better than I do.
The short of it: Nintendo helped SK, they didn't make SK. If SK goes third party, I'll still respect them, and more seriously question whether to purchase their games. If Microsoft buys them, they are dead to me. I used to really like Bungie and Rare, too. The moment M$ folded them in, they were dead to me, end of story.
Retro Studios, OTOH, is a completely different story. Nintendo literally made them, and I would honestly like to see Nintendo do something like that again (make a first party studio, that is). Then take two or three first party studios, and give them a different brand, to distinguish them as a "mature" (read: hip) brand.
I doubt it'll happen, but here's hoping.
BG
Post by: Rich on June 20, 2004, 07:03:49 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 20, 2004, 07:06:28 PM
And the others?
No official statement = bogus, imo...
Post by: ThePerm on June 20, 2004, 08:47:13 PM
Post by: Djunknown on June 21, 2004, 04:57:27 PM
Simply put: Money talks. Even if all the PGC forum members somehow and managed to pitch in to by an SK product they day it comes out, times that population by 10, and that's how many casual gamers are eating up [generic uninspired game with good ad campaign]. We may love them to death, but we can't pay their bills, OR accomadate the lifestyle they want, if catch my drift.
Commenting on the rumor for a second, hasn't Sega learned their lesson? Sega+Xbox=no sales. What part of that equation don't they understand?
Post by: Rich on June 21, 2004, 06:11:07 PM
Post by: Deguello on June 21, 2004, 11:12:54 PM
Post by: Gremio on June 22, 2004, 03:45:19 AM
QuoteSilicon Knights + SEGA sounds... much too awkward to be true. Where the heck are these rumors coming from, anyway?
Originally posted by: Rich
Bad news you guys, according to the rumor section in the newest EGM, SK has aligned themselves with Sega to make a game for the Xbox. I'm not gonna believe it until it becomes official, especially since Nintendo has yet to release an official statment about the split but, I will admit that over half of the rumors in EGM seem to come true. I geuss we'll just have to wait and see.
Post by: BlackGriffen on June 22, 2004, 01:30:07 PM
BG
Post by: Berny on June 22, 2004, 03:39:24 PM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on June 22, 2004, 04:08:44 PM
Post by: Berny on June 23, 2004, 06:36:15 AM
Post by: Syl on June 23, 2004, 08:40:32 AM
Post by: Urkel on June 24, 2004, 05:23:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
You could play Mad-Libs and come up with more reliable rumors than EGM.
Even though EGM is the bane of my existence, I would have to admit that their rumors have become marginally more accurate lately. Of course, it's mostly because they've started stealing rumors from other sites, or because some of these "rumors" are simply semi-confirmed pieces of news.
For example, in the latest issue they report in the rumors section that Nintendo's next console will be *gasp* backwards compatible. Then they have the huevos to say "You heard it here first". Funny, I thought I heard it MONTHS ago when Iwata said so himself! At least, he supposedly said it. Either way, it's old news. Morons.
Anyway if this is true, I'm completely confounded. Has ANY Sega game sold well on the Xbox? At the very best, it's a lateral move.
M rated games may be more popular on the Xbox, but not the kind SK makes. Not unless SK shifts towards gratuitous gore and run'n'gun gameplay. Also, SK may not be capable of creating the level of graphics that Xbox owners expect from a game. Personally, I thought Twin Snakes looked great, but virtually every Nintendo hater on any forum would say "LOL!!! yuo think msg twen snakes looks grate??? LOLOLOL!!1 maybe on LAMEcube it looks good cuz cube grafics suk but its nothing comprared to HALO 2! it dosent even have pixel bumped shading fur mapping voxel blast proccessing mode 7 LOLOLOLOLOL!! sk sucks at teh grafics!"
It's just that SK + Nintendo made sense. SK had a purpose. They would be THE company to go to for M rated games on the Cube. They stood out, or at least were starting to. SK + Xbox means they have no purpose. They'll just be M rated game maker #3234507. I don't think their games will stand out when next to GTA, Ninja Gaiden and Halo. I just don't see ANY casual gamers picking up something like Eternal Darkness that features a middle-aged fat man with a wig over games that have ninjas and big guns. Ever.
Post by: Rich on June 24, 2004, 08:55:13 PM
Post by: The Omen on June 25, 2004, 07:12:14 AM
