Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 09:30:29 AM
While Dyack says that he hopes to continue making games for the Gamecube, I find this news incredibly unsettling. Silicon Knights knows how to develop a high quality, aural and visual experience better than Nintendo can (or better than what Nintendo is putting out anyway). Big loss.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 13, 2004, 09:34:08 AM
Dyack always praised Nintendo and their philosophy and spoke out about the decreasing importance of technology. IGN's reason is bull.
I want to know the real reason they broke up.
Although I'm pretty sure I have an idea... they weren't making profit, just like Rare.
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 09:42:47 AM
What were the sales on MGS:TTS? Poor sales is the only thing I can think of that could cause this so suddenly.
Rare wasn't making a profit because they were dysfunctional. They could never meet a deadline and also their quality dropped significantly (if you've ever played SFA you'd know). If SK wasn't making a profit it was the result of bad advertising. If it turns out that Nintendo gave SK the boot and not the other way around I swear upon all that is holy I am done with Nintendo. Their disregard and contempt for western developers would turn me off to them.
Post by: John Cena on April 13, 2004, 09:44:02 AM
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 09:48:31 AM
I can already see M$ purchasing exclusitivity!
Post by: Shadow Fox on April 13, 2004, 09:49:35 AM
They didn't single-handedly destroy the still-active "kiddy image" these mainstream idiots keep babbling about, but then again, they aren't the games-only company with a few billion in the bank...
Damn you to hell, Nintendo...that is, until Paper Mario 2 ships.
-Official Ninja of PGC
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 09:52:36 AM
This pisses me off HUGE. Dyack came across as Nintendo fan #1 so if he's leaving than obviously Nintendo has royally f*cked up huge. I really wonder what they did to cause SK to split.
Now it might be because they basically left ED out to rot without any really strong marketing push and of course there's a huge difference in the two companies opinions on the importance of mature content. I'm more worried that Nintendo has done something behind the scenes that only their second parties know about that has caused SK to jump off what they think will be a sinking ship in a few years. Perhaps Nintendo has shown SK the initial plans for the N5 and the design is so insane that SK has left because they know they can't make the games they want to make with Nintendo any more. I'm really afraid of that because if the N5 doesn't appeal to SK then it doesn't appeal to me and it means Nintendo has changed into a company I no longer am interested in.
SK and Nintendo were a perfect fit initially as they shared design philosiphies and complemented each other's weaknesses. However Nintendo has become very different lately with their focus on simplicity and attracting different kinds of gamers and less emphasis on technology and all sorts of potentially scary stuff. It isn't too unlikely that they've changed into a company that doesn't mix well with SK anymore.
One thing that REALLY sucks is this kills the possibility of Too Human being the ultimate killer launch title for the N5. In other words the N5 may be doomed from the get go.
This is worse than Rare leaving because at least then we got a whole bunch of exclusives from the relationship. In this case we got only ONE GAME out of the whole thing.
Post by: Nephilim on April 13, 2004, 10:09:24 AM
Nintendo sling shoot them into mainstream gaming, they are a great company and I think they will continue making quality games. Many people on this forum attack sony for making games exclusive and well thats what Nintendo did with SK. So im understanding, they are a company and are out for profits. Just like everything is these days.
Because of the relationship I would proberly expect most of there games in future on cube, unless Microsoft pull there money out and they run up like a lil girl for a lollie. So its not that bad. Cant wait for new games for the future from them. Atleast they wont take 3years for them to come out like that other ex Nintendo game making company Rare.
On another note, what Part of the Knight is Silicon? are they Transexual knights?
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 13, 2004, 10:14:22 AM
It can't be their philosophy. Both Nintendo and SK advocated the decreasing importance of technology...
In fact I think the only way they differed was how simple they thought games should be.
Maybe Nintendo took ED and MGS:TT's bad sales as examples of simplicity being best. If so, that's royally screwed up seeing as neither game got ANY advertising.
I have no idea anymore. None of this makes any ****ing sense.
Post by: theRPGFreak on April 13, 2004, 10:19:15 AM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 10:19:32 AM
Post by: Strell on April 13, 2004, 10:20:12 AM
I'm utterly speechless.
I have lost a huge amount of faith in the GCNext. Two completely high calibur games, and what do you do? Get an exclusive game from Kuju, the guys that made Reign of Fire?
Just shoot me now, please.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 10:25:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
They 'mutually' agreed to separate, so no Nintendo won't try to get them back.
I bet Microsoft would treat them pretty well. I don't know about Sony, but I like how Microsoft gave Bungie more time with Halo 2. I also like how it's so evil for Microsoft to "gobble up" developers, but when Nintendo acquires studios, everyone cheers.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 10:28:33 AM
Tales of Symphonia.
SK.
Post by: Strell on April 13, 2004, 10:29:42 AM
Joking aside, it's asinine to compare Microsoft acquisition to Nintendo. Microsoft could easily buy all the companies if they wanted.
It's not a level playing field.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 10:30:33 AM
When Nintendo does it it's to create great games. When MS does it it's to dominate the industry. Nintendo grabs unproven developers and turns them into powerhouses while MS buys established developers so that the other consoles can't have them. Big difference.
Post by: evilnate on April 13, 2004, 10:33:59 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"I also like how it's so evil for Microsoft to "gobble up" developers, but when Nintendo acquires studios, everyone cheers."
When Nintendo does it it's to create great games. When MS does it it's to dominate the industry. Nintendo grabs unproven developers and turns them into powerhouses while MS buys established developers so that the other consoles can't have them. Big difference.
Heh, then after Nintendo turns them into powerhouses, they leave to get bought out by Microsoft.
At this rate, Nintendo's going to be lucky if Pokemon and Mario are N5 exclusives.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 10:35:02 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 13, 2004, 10:36:36 AM
I guess I will be playing ED2 and Too Human on my X-box.
Post by: theRPGFreak on April 13, 2004, 10:37:46 AM
Post by: KDR_11k on April 13, 2004, 10:38:13 AM
Post by: Strell on April 13, 2004, 10:38:16 AM
We've all been overdue for EXTREME Pokemon battles, where all the trainers are girls and they take off clothing with every lost battle.
While we're at it, let's speculate. I give Retro another year. At that point I expect all nude Samus revue on the Xbox 2.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 13, 2004, 10:40:06 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 10:40:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
that the B-button simply wore out.
There's a very easy way to fix that *_*
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 10:41:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Strell
Actually, I say let Microsoft have Pokemon.
We've all been overdue for EXTREME Pokemon battles, where all the trainers are girls and they take off clothing with every lost battle.
While we're at it, let's speculate. I give Retro another year. At that point I expect all nude Samus revue on the Xbox 2.
I doubt Microsoft would keep Pokemon offline if they had it.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 10:42:33 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
that the B-button simply wore out.
There's a very easy way to fix that *_*
Are you talking about twisting the handles or taking the controller apart? No such thing happened on the NES line. It's something that you should not have to deal with.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 10:44:14 AM
No it doesn't but it does mean there will be Silicon Knights games made that are not available on Nintendo consoles. That is worth being upset about. Plus if they were going to remain loyal to the Cube why would the two companies part ways? Odds are SK has something cooking for the PS2 or Xbox. I expect an announcement soon that another company has bought them out be it MS, Sony, or a third party like Konami (which really wouldn't suprise me at all).
Edit: IGN's quote from Dyack says "It's possible that we may do another game with Nintendo". They MAY do another game? I interpret that to mean that they currently have no plans for any other Nintendo games. However they might just mean they currently aren't collaborating with Nintendo and that technically doesn't mean no Cube games period. But it still doesn't fill me with any confidence. I'm hoping PGC is looking into this and can clear some stuff up.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2004, 10:45:22 AM
Post by: Rich on April 13, 2004, 10:59:06 AM
I've been looking around and I've noticed that only IGN is reporting this, Nintendojo reported ignCube as the only source and PGC or GameSpot haven't written anything so I'm hoping that this could be some kinda fluke by IGN especially since I would expect to hear this right before E3 or somewhere around there and there is currently a Silicon Knights game in the Big E3 List over at IGN. Heres to hoping that this is false.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:02:46 AM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 11:02:48 AM
How simply dispicable. Today is a sad day for Nintendo fans. If you cant realize this, then i feel sorry for you. Your blind worrshipping of the Sacred Gold Mario Cow is preventing you from seing Nintendo throw itselff off the presipice.
Post by: evilnate on April 13, 2004, 11:03:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
I guess that is true about N-Space, Retro, and Kuju, Ian. But anyway, this might just be the final nail in the coffin. I was upset that Aonouma directed Wind Waker, that Sunshine wasn't nearly as good as Mario 64, that the B-button simply wore out, that Nintendo abandoned 2D for GameCube, that the director of Kirby departed, but I got over those. This is the most upsetting news in a while.
I feel your pain. While I haven't played Twin Snakes yet, Eternal Darkness had one of the most engrossing stories that I've experienced in a video game. It brought back memories of the best of the Sierra point and click games.
You know, it's almost like Nintendo doesn't trust itself, or it's capabilities. The Cube could be the swiss army knife of game consoles. It's powerful, almost on par with the X-box. It's got (or had) the ability to take partial advantage of HDTVs. It's got a good controller, that works great for most games. It's got online capability, both through broadband and dial-up. It's got the only first-party wireless controller solution. Through the GBP, it's backwards compatable with nearly all of the handheld games, back through to the original Game Boy. Plus, because so many classic games have been ported to the GBA, it has them too.
Yet they can't seem to make the moves that would put them out there and better their image to mainstream gamers. They can't come up with an online plan. They can't hold exclusive games. They can't hold onto developers. They repeatedly make statements that make people think that they have no interest in advancing graphics or sound capabilities, or that they're only interested in making "simple" games.
Honestly, I think that Nintendo is a confused company. They create, what is in my opinion, the best and most versitile console of this (or any) generation, yet expose a philosophy that suggests that they don't know how to take advantage of it.
This news isn't going to lessen my enjoyment of my cube or it's games right now, but I am going to have to take a good hard look at the next generation, because the way things are going, many of the games that I enjoy just aren't going to be around on Nintendo's next console.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 11:06:13 AM
Developer: "OK, we're done, here's the game."
Nintendo: "Thanks."
[both parties wave bye-bye to each other]
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:07:41 AM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 13, 2004, 11:07:55 AM
I can confirm that this report is accurate. I spoke with Denis on the phone a few minutes ago. He said similar things to what is in IGNcube's story; the reason for the breakup is still a tightly guarded secret, and I don't know when we will know the truth, but it may be at E3. I am waiting to get some quotes verified, and then PGC will have our own story on this matter.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 11:09:50 AM
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 13, 2004, 11:10:25 AM
Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).
He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all. But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news. I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:11:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: evilnateQuote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
I guess that is true about N-Space, Retro, and Kuju, Ian. But anyway, this might just be the final nail in the coffin. I was upset that Aonouma directed Wind Waker, that Sunshine wasn't nearly as good as Mario 64, that the B-button simply wore out, that Nintendo abandoned 2D for GameCube, that the director of Kirby departed, but I got over those. This is the most upsetting news in a while.
You know, it's almost like Nintendo doesn't trust itself, or it's capabilities. The Cube could be the swiss army knife of game consoles. It's powerful, almost on par with the X-box. It's got (or had) the ability to take partial advantage of HDTVs. It's got a good controller, that works great for most games. It's got online capability, both through broadband and dial-up. It's got the only first-party wireless controller solution. Through the GBP, it's backwards compatable with nearly all of the handheld games, back through to the original Game Boy. Plus, because so many classic games have been ported to the GBA, it has them too.
Yet they can't seem to make the moves that would put them out there and better their image to mainstream gamers. They can't come up with an online plan. They can't hold exclusive games. They can't hold onto developers. They repeatedly make statements that make people think that they have no interest in advancing graphics or sound capabilities, or that they're only interested in making "simple" games.
Honestly, I think that Nintendo is a confused company. They create, what is in my opinion, the best and most versitile console of this (or any) generation, yet expose a philosophy that suggests that they don't know how to take advantage of it.
I agree. It also seems like they don't trust themselves to make new franchises like they had to do with the NES and SNES. They have everything they need to be the best, but they have not used it.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:14:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Two more things:
Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).
He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all. But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news. I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.
I think a lot of us are angry with Nintendo. I think SK has made some of the most fun games, and I don't care which system they choose. I know I like the first Blood Omen, and I'm hoping Eidos will let them take back the series they created.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 11:17:29 AM
Hopefully this sentence won't be completed with "... when they announce Too Human for the PS2." No matter what though I'm not expecting good news. If it was something that benefited the Cube I wouldn't see any need to be secretive when the whole fanbase is freaking out and damage control is needed.
"I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction."
Heh heh. That sounds pretty funny. It just seems so unnecessary to say.
Post by: Jonnyboy117 on April 13, 2004, 11:20:05 AM
Post by: bubba23 on April 13, 2004, 11:22:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
Two more things:
Denis said that he thinks Twin Snakes has been well received and is selling well, although he has not seen sales data (and neither have we).
He also said that he would try to hop into the forums today, although I don't know if he will be answering questions or posting at all. But he is very interested in what you all have to say about this news. I told him that I thought most of our hardcore readers would have a negative reaction.
Well I can say to Denis is good luck on your future endeavours, because I think you run a great development company and I think they can be a success with or without Nintendo. I take great pride that it's right where I live, and I hope they continue to make high quality games.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 11:24:02 AM
Bah, just read Johnny's response- this really sucks. I'm still wondering how this came completely out of the blue, though- with Rare there was an indication they would be dropped for a long time. Rumors were running almost a year before it happened. Hell, even when Left Field was dropped there was some rumor mongering among the internet community before anyone said anything.
Quote
I know I like the first Blood Omen, and I'm hoping Eidos will let them take back the series they created.
It was Crystal Dynamics, and they took the series away from Silicon Knights illegally- SK had them in court and was about to win when Nintendo offered to make them a 2nd party, at which point they decided the case wasn't worth it and dropped it. I really doubt SK will be making any new LoK games.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 11:26:28 AM
Edit: MC read Jonny's post while I was typing this so I guess you can ignore this post. Zeppelin rules!
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 11:36:54 AM
In any case, I hope SK remains close to Nintendo, and excuse me while I explode.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 11:41:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
To all those who assume this situation is Nintendo's decision, you may be wrong. .
We assume its Nintendos decision because of Dennis himself. Ive never met the guy, but ive got tremendous respect for him. His comments made me think that he trully respected Nintendo and enjoyed working with them. He seemd to trully enjoy their cooperation and have similar ideals. Someone who respected Nintendo so much would not leave them this rapidly. I had such high hopes for them too, i was hoping to see them make a Kid Icarus or a Zelda title. Instead ill be forced to buy an X-box to play their games. Nintendo is shooting themselves in the foot in the console race. They are forcing a Nintendo fanboy to buy another console because of their mistakes. They are loosing their small hardcore fanbase. When they sold Rare, i felt secure because Nintendo still had Retro and Silicon Knights. Well Silicon Knights are gone, a tremendously underapreceated development group by nintendo. The way Eternal Darkness was treated by Nintendo, was like you treat a red headed step child. I knew Twin Snakes was going to have a similar situation when i saw no advertisement for it whatsoever.
How is Nintendo supposed to attract adult gamers? The biggest slice of the gaming pie these days? Their Third Parties are jumping ship, their seccond parties are getting dumped (factor 5 and Silicon Knights in less than a year how dispicable) ? With the countless Mario Party Rehashes? the GCNext becomes less and less atractive for prospective buyers every day. Why would they want to buy a GCNext since Nintendos best exclusives are no longer exclusive.
Quote
Right now, the details of what is going on are completely in the dark, so we can't know
Your right, but we can know that it really really sucks.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:41:36 AM
Quote
It was Crystal Dynamics, and they took the series away from Silicon Knights illegally- SK had them in court and was about to win when Nintendo offered to make them a 2nd party, at which point they decided the case wasn't worth it and dropped it. I really doubt SK will be making any new LoK games.
The first Blood Omen was so fun, and SK has improved so much. They could so much in that universe. That doesn't surprise me about Crystal Dynamics. That's similar to what happened to Core. Crystal Dynamics didn't take the Tomb Raider franchise from them , but Eidos took it from its creators and now Crystal Dynamics is developing the game.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 11:46:12 AM
Post by: Rhoq on April 13, 2004, 11:46:53 AM
I have been a loyal Nintendo fan since the NES days. While I might not have owned every Nintendo console, I have never owned a non-Nintendo console (excluding the Atari 2600, ColecoVision and Atari Lynx). This generation, I own the most games I have ever owned for a system. I love my GameCube and up until recently, I have adored Nintendo.
I would say for the better part of the last year, I have grown increasingly dissatisfied with Nintendo’s philosophy and business decisions. Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way dissatisfied with my GameCube, but I do feel that my game library is missing certain titles because Nintendo has dropped the ball several times causing several 3rd party developers to take their business elsewhere. Since I like to be a one console person, I know that I am missing out on some great gaming experiences by not owning a PS2 or an X-Box. The bottom line is, I know that the Cube offers the most variety in terms of gaming – which is really what is the most important “option” to me in a console system.
In my opinion, Silicon Knights was the best thing Nintendo had going for them. Eternal Darkenss and Metal Gear Solid are excellent games that no GameCube owner should be without. I hate to say it, but without Silicon Knights – Nintendo’s future doesn’t seem as bright and promising. I was looking forward to the N5/GCNext and Silicon Knights’ Too Human was one of the reasons behind my interest in Nintendo’s future console. While, the game might still see the light of day on a Nintendo machine, today’s news makes it seem quite unlikely.
So if Dennis, or anyone else from Silicon Knights reads this thread, I just want to say “Thank You”. Thank you for Eternal Darkness and MGS:TTS. Wherever you end-up, I will be there to buy your future games.
This does not mean that I will not buy the next Nintendo console, what it does mean is that today’s news has made it quite clear…In this day and age, owning only one console system leaves you in the dark. When the next consoles are released, I think I might end-up with a N5/GCNext and an X-Box 2.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 11:49:31 AM
Post by: Zeks on April 13, 2004, 11:55:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
To all those who assume this situation is Nintendo's decision, you may be wrong. Nintendo's investment in Silicon Knights was never fully disclosed; they may have had a 10% stake or it could have been 90%. But SK did remain an independent company, unlike Retro Studios, which is 100% owned by Nintendo and could never leave unless Nintendo sold them off. It is very possible that SK made this decision against Nintendo's wishes, if Nintendo held a minority stake in the company and could not carry enough influence to stop the break. In that case, if Nintendo chooses to keep its stake, they could continue to make money from SK even if the developer begins to release games on other platforms. This would be similar to the situation with Sony and SquareEnix. Then again, Nintendo may have decided to sell off their stake in SK to someone else, either another company or another shareholder (like Denis himself). Right now, the details of what is going on are completely in the dark, so we can't know.
Exactly. As for most of the ppl here, I can see where u all are comming from. But as Jonny said we dont know anything. I just love it when ppl jump to conlusions everytime somthing 'bad' happens and yall dont know jack about the situation. If this is money for oh lets say to help aquire other developers/technologies then depending on what those are Id be all for it. I already see ppl in this post adding to the numerous "Nintendo is doomed now....ummm....again" ideas. People can atleast wait till some kind of info is available b4 starting to bable. And FYI, no Im not a noob here, I just never post=Probly been here longer than most ;P.
Post by: evilnate on April 13, 2004, 12:00:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rhoq
This does not mean that I will not buy the next Nintendo console, what it does mean is that today’s news has made it quite clear…In this day and age, owning only one console system leaves you in the dark. When the next consoles are released, I think I might end-up with a N5/GCNext and an X-Box 2.
While I guess that I'm in an increasingly small minority, I just can't justify buying more than one console to my wife or daughter. Nintendo has offered me enough variety to justify making their consoles my choice, and up until the middle of last year, it looked like the N5 would be my next console. Now, with this and many other things that have been coming out of the Nintendo camp, I can't honestly say that.
Post by: King of Twitch on April 13, 2004, 12:16:08 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 12:23:54 PM
Quote
While I guess that I'm in an increasingly small minority, I just can't justify buying more than one console to my wife or daughter. Nintendo has offered me enough variety to justify making their consoles my choice, and up until the middle of last year, it looked like the N5 would be my next console. Now, with this and many other things that have been coming out of the Nintendo camp, I can't honestly say that.
No offense, but Nintendo's "variety" is Nintendo and no one else- if you're happy with your Gamecube I see absolutely no reason for you to not be happy with Nintendo's next console.
Besides, it's not like Silicon Knights is being bought up by somebody else, like Rare (who was SOLD, by the way)- they're just not only with Nintendo anymore. It's like when a psychologist tells a couple they should see other people for a while.
Post by: Mannypon on April 13, 2004, 12:28:44 PM
lol
Post by: The Omen on April 13, 2004, 12:29:01 PM
What really sucks is with E3 being so close, you just know you're going to hear "Too Human, only on PS2!" Now I have to really consider what the future of Nintendo is going to be. Blindly buying the N5 is not going to happen now. And i've owned every Nintendo console since the NES was released.
Post by: SLIVER on April 13, 2004, 12:29:59 PM
All in all i think Nintendo Deserved this big time they did not appreciate their work very much. I for one are glad this happened!!
Hopefully they will now appreciate their work more and take them back?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 12:34:08 PM
If a psychologist told me that I'd kick him in the nuts.
So I guess you could consider that a bad analogy."Nintendo's 'variety' is Nintendo and no one else"
I guess that depends on what you consider standard for Nintendo consoles. I think of the NES, SNES, and Gameboy. I considered the N64 an anomaly; a one time goof up on Nintendo's part. Sadly the Cube has proven that theory wrong but I still desire the Nintendo that provided a console with a broad variety of titles from both first and third party fronts. Therefore if Nintendo continues to fail to live up to this expectation I would consider it perfectly valid grounds for switching to another console brand. I probably won't but I totally understand if others would.
Plus I associate SK with Nintendo since they were a second party. Losing them is losing variety in Nintendo's lineup since Nintendo no longer provides the SK experience. Losing Rare resulted in less variety as well.
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 12:36:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Manny
thanks jonnyboy, I couldnt believe all the negetivity towards nintendo in this topic. I understand taht it sucks that sk is not exclusive anymore but then it aint the end of the world. ED 2 which might not even ever be made and there other game that I cant seem to remember the name of right now aint goin to make or break nintendo. I been lookin foward to sk's work but it aint the reason I was goin to buy nintendo's next system. I buy nintendo's system for their games which is and should be everyone else's reason in here too, if you dont then you should be buyin ps2s or xboxs since they have practically everything on nintendo's system barrin nintendo's individual games. Who knows what happened here, maybe it wasnt nintendo's decision or maybe it was. We dont know and should already jump to the conclusion that its nintendo's fault. As for nintendo buyin small developers and building them up to greatness just to sell them off in the end is bull. Nintendo helps small developers and then it seems it gives them the freedom to go as they please. If a company doesnt want to be with you anymore, whats the point in even holdin on to their exclusivity? They'll get disgruntled and start makin garbage games and eventually they'll be sold out. So if a company might want to move on, dont blame nintendo for letting them do as they please. Sorry for ranting but I'm a fanboy
I happen to be a fanboy too. A currently VERY confused fanboy. I want answers, and I would like them NOW. At least with RARE we got some advanced notice, and a reason as to WHY they were going right away. If this happens to be Nintendo's move, I doubt I'll buy their next system. Maybe it'll be better for them to loose money, and wake up from the daze they've been in since Sony came in and took their industry away.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 12:42:00 PM
Quote
I was goin to buy nintendo's next system. I buy nintendo's system for their games which is and should be everyone else's reason in here too, if you dont then you should be buyin ps2s or xboxs since they have practically everything on nintendo's system barrin nintendo's individual games
Nitnendos "inovation, and individuality" Is Extremely overated. Check out the Gamecubes lineup. Theres Wind Waker, and thats pretty much it. Metroid Prime was Retros baby. Eternal Darkness, one of the most inovative games ever was Silicon Knights. The Sanity Effects were worth price of admission alone. The Rest of the GCN lineup, is pretty much rehash and remakes. Mario Parties, Mario Sunshine, Mario Kart... ect ect. None of these screamed INOVATIVE! Like Nintendos SNES, and N64 titles did. They lost a great inovative group, that like IGN said, valued Story, technology, and games artistic flair, instead of Nintendos emphasis on old school gameplay.
Post by: Sirmorphix on April 13, 2004, 12:45:22 PM
Why is Nintendo intent on tormenting me? All I know now is that I'm starting to take a lot of reassurance in the fact that I recently just bought a PS2.
Post by: evilnate on April 13, 2004, 12:47:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"It's like when a psychologist tells a couple they should see other people for a while."
If a psychologist told me that I'd kick him in the nuts.
"Nintendo's 'variety' is Nintendo and no one else"
I guess that depends on what you consider standard for Nintendo consoles. I think of the NES, SNES, and Gameboy. I considered the N64 an anomaly; a one time goof up on Nintendo's part. Sadly the Cube has proven that theory wrong but I still desire the Nintendo that provided a console with a broad variety of titles from both first and third party fronts. Therefore if Nintendo continues to fail to live up to this expectation I would consider it perfectly valid grounds for switching to another console brand. I probably won't but I totally understand if others would.
Plus I associate SK with Nintendo since they were a second party. Losing them is losing variety in Nintendo's lineup since Nintendo no longer provides the SK experience. Losing Rare resulted in less variety as well.
You took my response. Nintendo used to have the broadest variety of games. Fighting games, platformers, action games, shooters, RPGs, heck, even sports games were well represented on Nintendo consoles. Like Ian, I considered the N64 an anomaly, brought about by their reluctance to switch to a disc-based format. With the cube, I think that they did everything right on the hardware front, but on the software front, not so much. And it's this ever shrinking variety of software, a trend which has been going on with Nintendo consoles for eight years now, that throws my next console purchase into doubt.
Post by: akdaman1 on April 13, 2004, 12:48:12 PM
Again. It happened again. I wake up to some bad news. When was the bloddy last time when I wake up, go to Igncube and see a new exclusive title being announced ?
A year ago during E3 I was extremly happy. Let me tell you why.
Viewtiful Joe
Mario Kart DD
Tales of Symphonia
Baten Kaitos
Resident Evil
Geist
Custom Robo
Killer 7
Metal Gear Solid
Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicals
Now let me show you something -
Viewtiful Joe - Being ported over to the PS2
Mario Kart DD - Dissapointing
Tales of Symphonia - Being Ported
Baten Kaitos - Poor sales in Jap , almost 100% sure its gonna be ported. And if it doesnt then I still wont play it because wont come out in AUS.
Resident Evil - Im happy about this, no complaints.
Geist - Looooonnnggg time away and could be utter crap , but so far it looks AWSOME.
Custom Robo - Looks good ( when does it come out in AUS ? )
Killer 7 - being ported
Metal Gear Solid - AWSOME GAME ( Highly Reccomended BUT SK could have been working on an original project instead of this )
Final Fantasy Chrystal Chronicals - Looks over at FF on PS2 ...nuff said.
Over half the games I wanted turned out to be dissapointing or on another system.
Nintendo have lost it. What are they thinkning ?
Although I never really caught on to ED I do see why alot of people loved it. It had a great story and the battle system was better then most Horror games.
Silicon Knights were awsome, they were making games with crazy concepts and were able to pull them off. I was looking forward to one of these crazy concepts ( Too Human ) but ...whaddya know. Its most likley gonna be on PS2 or Xbox.
I DONT BLAME SILICON KNIGHTS. They wanna part ways from Nintendo. Who wouldnt wanna. I mean why would you wanna devolep for a soon-to-be dead company ?
Im dissapointed and unless Nintendo do something MAJOR at e3 then consider this the last ( GCN ) Nintendo system I own.
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 12:48:22 PM
Couldn't resist.
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 12:52:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
THIS can't be happening!
Oh if this turns out to be some 'clever' marketing scheme for ED 2, I'm going on a killing rampage.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 12:52:49 PM
And jesus guys, enough with the Nintendo bashing! I expected you guys to brush it off and say it doesn't really matter, but instead you took the polar opposite approach. Moderation is the key- nothing good will ever come out of being a radical, at least not here.
Post by: BigJim on April 13, 2004, 12:54:29 PM
Perhaps the types of games SK wants to make are simply not best suited for GameCube. As a fan of SK as well, I want them to be successful. A game like ED or a concept like Too Human would probably do really well on PS2 or Xbox.
They can still make GCN games. This isn't Rare over again, unless someone in Redmond scoops them up in the next 24 hours with a piece of their $52 billion in corporate cash.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 01:00:46 PM
Fact is, It DOES matter. There is no way a Nintendo fan can spin this. It Hurts Nintendo, and that doesnt make me happy.
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 01:01:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: gwgtrunksQuote
Originally posted by: odifiend
THIS can't be happening!
Oh if this turns out to be some 'clever' marketing scheme for ED 2, I'm going on a killing rampage.
I didn't even think of that. Lol. That would be so awesome. I could conceivably see Mr. Dyack leading us astray but I just can't see a Nintendo spokesperson confirming a ploy. Pray that I'm wrong though...
What really hurts about this news is that SK released M-rated games on GCN and as great as they both were, they saw the financial results. Only if Mr. Dyack is a blind fanboy could he even think about releasing Too Human on a Nintendo console. Unfortunately he is a businessman so I just don't see it happening. The darkness consumes me.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 01:02:20 PM
Quote
Fact is, It DOES matter. There is no way a Nintendo fan can spin this. It Hurts Nintendo, and that doesnt make me happy.
You know what they say about assuming! Please don't put words in my mouth- I never said this wasn't horrible (if true), and I love SK just as much, if not more, than anyone here. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go off of a diatribe about Nintendo for no reason other than I like to read my own writing. Like Johnny said, it may not have even been Nintendo's decision!
Quote
Oh if this turns out to be some 'clever' marketing scheme for ED 2, I'm going on a killing rampage.
You know, I wouldn't put that past Dyack, bless the man- this could, in fact, be the biggest insanity effect ever.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 13, 2004, 01:07:11 PM
Post by: BigJim on April 13, 2004, 01:11:33 PM
What else are they working on now that Twin Snakes is done?
Post by: Epitaph on April 13, 2004, 01:21:24 PM
My only other thought is that the next nintendo system will be totally simplistic and have very little buttons and be focused solely towards the younger market as they havegiven up on a older market. You never know i didn't think it before but now im not too sure.
Im actually starting to think it may be a good think if nintendo just went 3rd party.
Post by: akdaman1 on April 13, 2004, 01:26:24 PM
The N5 ...go to your nearest K-Mart and buy it ...NOW ( Whole time a little tamagochi is on the screen )
Post by: WesDawg on April 13, 2004, 01:33:20 PM
In other news, don't you dare say it'd be good if M$ bought them up. M$ bought up Rare and they've become one of the crappiest developers around. Anytime I hear about the possibility of them teaming up with Ninty or SK now I shudder to think of the horrible derivative games that could be made. I'm hoping Dennis just figured out that SK could make more profit per game if they went independent, but still developed for my Cube. I hope so at least...
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 13, 2004, 01:33:21 PM
EDIT: I agree with Wes on the M$ thing they better not scoop up SK cause i dont feel like buying a xbox ontop of my cube and ps2.
Post by: The Omen on April 13, 2004, 01:38:03 PM
Post by: Doobie on April 13, 2004, 01:52:12 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 13, 2004, 01:57:45 PM
I really think this would be good for SK as well.
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 13, 2004, 02:02:00 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 13, 2004, 02:03:46 PM
Does Nintendo still own stock in Silicon Knights?
See, all I can find that's set in concrete is that there is no more exclusivity deal. But that could still happen with Nintendo owning stock... just look at Sony and Square.
If Nintendo still owns stock, then that means Nintendo didn't kick them out, they just let them develop for other platforms too.
Maybe all this means is that SK paid Nintendo to do this so they could port over Twin Snakes to other consoles, then SK will just continue making games for Nintendo.
Post by: SLIVER on April 13, 2004, 02:19:48 PM
All in all i think Nintendo Deserved this big time they did not appreciate their work very much. I for one are glad this happened!!
Hopefully they will now appreciate their work more and take them back?
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2004, 02:31:11 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 13, 2004, 02:56:18 PM
Post by: Darc Requiem on April 13, 2004, 02:59:47 PM
::crosses his fingers:: Please DS, have that Nintendo magic.
Darc Requiem
Post by: NeonDestruction on April 13, 2004, 03:14:46 PM
THis news of SK leaving has put me over the edge. Bad Marketing, less-than-spectacular games, terrible gaming philosophies, losing third parties, losing second parties--it all adds up. Nintendo isn't doing something right. They need to figure it out fast, and more importantly they need to pull something magnicificent out of their hat come E3, and something even greater for E3 2005 (New console). If not, the GCNext might be the first Nintendo console I will not buy (Other than Virtual Boy).
Post by: joshnickerson on April 13, 2004, 03:39:02 PM
I seriously don't know why I bother coming to these forums anymore when every day you just deride Nintendo and second guess them constantly. If I wanted that I'd go to the IGN forums.
Post by: chaos on April 13, 2004, 03:45:20 PM
Well I get that feeling from previous interviews
But I suppose the only ones who do know are Nintendo and Silicon Knights
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 13, 2004, 03:48:10 PM
oh wate i allready have in like every second post. BREAKING NEWS: i'm breaking up with my pants, please angst and drama about it in multiple threads.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2004, 03:48:12 PM
[Japanese translation: There was a great deal of fuss, but little came of it]
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 13, 2004, 04:13:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DeadlyD
If this is true then this might effect myself getting MGS:TS when its released finnaly in Aus
Not much chance of that, I'm afraid. Atari 'released' the game about two weeks ago in very limited supply, it's already discontinued here. Hurray for publishers screwing Nintendo over every chance they get.
I don't see why everybody is spewing up here, they've claimed to continue making games for GameCube. Why the hell should we care if the same game gets a lousy PS2 port later on? Oh noes! Now more gamers will have the chance to play SK's games! Disaster.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 13, 2004, 04:18:31 PM
Post by: Rich on April 13, 2004, 04:25:54 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 13, 2004, 04:26:13 PM
Seriously, no one knows much right now, but my first reaction was somewhere around .......f***, and .....what the hell?
Post by: Mario on April 13, 2004, 04:29:37 PM
Maybe this is one huge sanity effect for ED2. Or not.
lolz may b nokia r plannig to buy them
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 04:29:37 PM
Post by: Mario on April 13, 2004, 04:31:56 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2004, 04:37:13 PM
Post by: WhoDey on April 13, 2004, 04:38:37 PM
The news wouldn't be nearly as disappointing if they really were just going to make games for the XBox and PS2 along with quality games for the GC. But as any GC owner will attest to, we know that's not how it will work out.
I don't know who is to blame...Nintendo? SK? The GC user base? It really doesn't matter. But it's becoming increasingly clear that to be a Nintendo console owner you almost have to pick up a 2nd console to fill in the gaps Nintendo can't cover...(rpg's, sports, mature titles).
Post by: Mario on April 13, 2004, 04:41:01 PM
Quote
Yep, they are free to continue to make game for Nintendo's console...but do you really think they will? The market for their games is clearly on the XBox and PS2.
I don't think so. Flashy games sell on Xbox and PS2, Eternal Darkness is the opposite of flashy, and i think it would fly right over most PS2 and Xbox casual gamers heads.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 04:47:06 PM
Quote
It's not that bad for Nintendos market share.
Would a prospective buyer prefer Too Human or Mario Party Rehash 11 ... Maybe Silicon Knights games didnt sell as well as Nintendo hoped. But thats not Silicon Knights fault. Not giving a single commercial to Twin Snakes, and the litle or no advertisement for ED is at fault. I especially think Nintendo Power is an example of this, their lack of coverage of "Mature Games" is basically an extension of Nintendos lack of foresight. Nintendo doesnt belive Mature Gamers are important, when statistically they are the largest slice of the pie now. The Kidde/Family games are no longer the dominant majority in the gaming industry. Nintendo doesnt see this, this is why eventually they will loose Market Share.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 13, 2004, 04:52:58 PM
Would you like to make a guess at which one would sell more? My bet's on Mario Party...
Post by: Mario on April 13, 2004, 04:53:07 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 04:55:04 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 05:05:23 PM
I still think it's a hoax, though.
Post by: Mario on April 13, 2004, 05:10:19 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 13, 2004, 05:15:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Ian summed up my thoughts on that situation- although SK doesn't compromise a lot of Nintendo's sales, they're an extremely talented developer, and losing that kind of talent regardless of sales is always bad.
I still think it's a hoax, though.
Yeah, that would be funny. Ashton Kutcher fooled everyone when he announced Punk'd would no longer air, and then later he admitted new episodes were coming. Dyack would get a big laugh out of this "sanity effect."
Post by: Chongman on April 13, 2004, 05:17:46 PM
What the hell? What are you guys doing? Why are you being so dumb??
After reading every post and the article on pgc, I've come to the conclusion that the only facts we truly do know is:
1) the contract ended, which could equal three different outcomes
a. They want to develop for all consoles
b. Another company bought them out
c. Nintendo is preparing to buy them and SK is psyching everyone out...if you own the company, what's the need for a so called "exclusivity contract??"
2) this came suddenly, with absolutely no knowledge from either party, no forewarning, absolutely NO REASON.
How can you legitimetly blame nintendo? What if Too Human is announced at E3 for GC, where will all you naysayers be? How can you say for certain it WONT be? Using the same argument, I can't truthfully say I know it will, but I don't know it if it wont be either. So how can you even start to blame nintendo? How do you know they did something wrong? How do you know it was internal, or, god forbid a factual quote from nintendo, it wasn't a MUTUAL parting, just like they claim?
Look, if next week they announce an amazingly looking PS2 game, i'll be right here on the boards, pissing my pants and shouting expletatives at nintendo right along side the rest of you. Heck, I may even send death threats to Iawata, but the fact is we don't know what SK's next direction is, where they're going with this, or if this is anyone's SINGLE fault?
So stop naysaying. Once we get some answers, may the doom prophocies begin. Until then...just save it.
Quote
I was hoping to see them make a Kid Icarus or a Zelda title. Instead ill be forced to buy an X-box to play their games
THE most idiotic post I've read so far in this topic
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 13, 2004, 05:35:19 PM
Post by: Berny on April 13, 2004, 05:38:41 PM
I'm in panic mode! *A SPLODE!!!!*
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 05:39:45 PM
Post by: Pale on April 13, 2004, 05:41:44 PM
Anyway, something is really fricked up in Nintendo-world and I think MS has something to do with it.... I have a feeling next generation isn't gonna be more of the same, and that there is only gonna be two competing consoles.....who knows how that will work itself out though.
Post by: Berny on April 13, 2004, 05:46:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
Now I would be estatic if this was a hoax but I think it's really unrealistic to think that it will be. What would SK accomplish with something like this? They've managed to annoy and confuse their fanbase with it. Blatantly fooling your fanbase just for kicks isn't good customer relations.
You're right, Ian. I'm sorry to admit it but you are. I am *THIS* close to boycotting all Nintendo products because of this. First Namco backstabs us with Tales, now this. The future is bleak. This had better not be true. Dammit Dyack, HOW CAN YOU SCREW WITH OUR MINDS LIKE THIS?!
Doesn't he occasionaly post on these boards? Dyack, are you reading this? WHY?!
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 05:47:52 PM
Quote
THE most idiotic post I've read so far in this topic
Why is that? If Eternal Darkness 2, or Too Human are X-box exclusive (Very possible) i will buy an Xbox to play these games. I loved Eternal Darkness too much to miss out on the sequel.
Is this fake? doubtfull... While i admit, Dennis's reluctance to explain why he would suddenly break apart from Nintendo, after being qouted on topics like Kid Icarus, Zelda and his admiration for all things Nintendo, its probably not because its some sort of scam... More like Sony or Microsoft bought them out, and they are waiting to announce it officially soon. Dennis said he might work something out with Nintendo in the future, but not certain.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 05:52:39 PM
Post by: Chongman on April 13, 2004, 05:54:08 PM
I thought it was very dumb because you seem to be jumping conclusions extremely early, almost as if you're sure SK sold out to microsoft. That just seems ill thought out and there's no evidence to support anything like that
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 05:55:57 PM
I think it depends on what the final result would be. If it was a creative way to announce a game then it's all fine. If it's just to be funny I would be a little peeved.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 05:58:11 PM
Post by: Procession on April 13, 2004, 05:59:07 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 06:03:59 PM
Quote
Denis Dyack gets along very well with Nintendo's higher-ups, including Shigeru Miyamoto and Satoru Iwata, but that doesn't mean they share the same ideas about the elements that need to be considered to make great software. In the end, I believe SK wanted more creative freedom and the ability to make the titles it really wanted to.....Whether or not Silicon Knights makes more GameCube titles, I don't know. Right now my feeling is that it won't -- at least not immediately
Post by: Chongman on April 13, 2004, 06:07:57 PM
that whole comment is purely opinion, so I'm still not sure.
I'm not denying it or anything, I just want reasons, from them, you know?
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 13, 2004, 06:11:20 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 13, 2004, 06:11:43 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2004, 06:12:58 PM
its not like eternal darkness 2 is coming out tommorow.
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 06:13:34 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2004, 06:15:40 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 06:16:19 PM
Keep in mind this is the message board of an internet fansite- that's like going to a gun convention and being amazed that everyone likes hunting. Seriously, how many people do you think actually know who Silicon Knights is, much less care who does or doesn't own them?
Post by: yellowfellow on April 13, 2004, 06:16:31 PM
Post by: Berny on April 13, 2004, 06:16:32 PM
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 06:17:09 PM
but when there's a lot of comotion on the 'net about stuff, it spreads fast.
Post by: UniversalJuan on April 13, 2004, 06:20:04 PM
Let's look for a second where it says SK will not be making anymore games for Nintendo consoles. *cough* Yeah I don't see it either but for everyone who apparently does see this? Read it again please. Still see it? Invest some cash in some glasses instead of your next game.
Half of you are completely overreacting without knowing anything about this. When I first ran across this thread I could've sworn canuck had hacked everyone's accounts because it's stuff I'd expect him to say.
As for all this doom and gloom about Nintendo? I've said it once and I will say it again "I was talking about this [Nintendo doom and gloom] with a former PGC goer. And I came to a conclusion, at first as a joke, but after a while considering how some of the fans and the industry are reacting? If making money and being 2nd worldwide is bringing Nintendo all this grief? Then Microsoft? By all means start making money on X-Box! Please! Get in 2nd Place! Nintendo slide into 3rd purposely and let's see how Microsoft likes it =/ I mean no one bugs Microsoft as they're bleeding money and are in 3rd. So pleease give them 2nd and help them make money with X-Box and let's see some X-Box doom and gloom talk among its fans and with writers"
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 06:21:44 PM
Post by: Berny on April 13, 2004, 06:22:01 PM
Quote
Iwata said that Nintendo would continue to try and draw more adult players
Doesn't that come into direct contradiction of what is allegedly happening right now? WHY would they drop the one developer that seems to only produce mature games? This is messed up. Now I'm thinking this is to hype somthing at E3.
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 06:25:29 PM
Im very angry right now and dont know what im saying talk to me later.
Post by: Chongman on April 13, 2004, 06:26:16 PM
DENNIS!!! GET IN HERE AND SAY SOMETHING!! for the love of all that is holy....
*spasms*
either this year's E3 will be downright breathtakingly awesome for Nintendo...or just...blah
Post by: The Omen on April 13, 2004, 06:29:29 PM
Quote
Let's look for a second where it says SK will not be making anymore games for Nintendo consoles. *cough* Yeah I don't see it either but for everyone who apparently does see this? Read it again please. Still see it? Invest some cash in some glasses instead of your next game.
Denis says they 'may' continue to make games for Nintendo. I don't like the word may, in that instance. If the games arent exclusive to the GC, then guess what? GC will be the third system of choice. If you can't see how that would hurt Nintendo, youre crazy.
However, i'm holding out hope its a negotiating ploy, and SK leaked this purposely to gain leverage. I would really love if it was a prank, or marketing for ED2 like MC and Ian said, but i'm not feeling to confident right now.
Post by: Berny on April 13, 2004, 06:30:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Chongman
either this year's E3 will be downright breathtakingly awesome for Nintendo...or just...blah
It's the latter I'm afraid of. I'm sure X-Box fanboys are laughing at us panicking like this. I would be surprised if we get another Xbox spammer on the boards now. "DONT U C?! SUCKcube is TEH SUCK! XBOX ROXORZ and has TEH SILIKONITES!!!!"
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 06:31:50 PM
*cough* Actually, I do belive I was the first one to suggest that
. around page 3, 4, or 5. But it was a joke. Although... it would be brilliant to build some hype around their name...
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 13, 2004, 06:33:09 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 06:34:35 PM
still very mad and might be crazy my self.
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 06:35:26 PM
Grr... this is frustrating though. I mean, with RARE we at least got a good reason why they got sold. But we don't have a solid reason as to why SK would leave Ninty... they seemed pretty happy there.
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 06:49:00 PM
Post by: The Omen on April 13, 2004, 06:49:00 PM
Quote
cough* Actually, I do belive I was the first one to suggest that . around page 3, 4, or 5. But it was a joke. Although... it would be brilliant to build some hype around their name...
Okay...credit re-routed
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 06:52:47 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 06:59:12 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 13, 2004, 07:09:01 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 07:57:09 PM
nvm found it see
http://www.cube-europe.com/news.php?nid=6322
Post by: odifiend on April 13, 2004, 08:07:55 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 08:12:50 PM
Post by: Doobie on April 13, 2004, 08:20:49 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 13, 2004, 08:26:45 PM
You're either crazy or you're so sane that you've blown my mind.
Post by: gwgtrunks on April 13, 2004, 08:29:45 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 13, 2004, 08:30:58 PM
wait i said jump may be they will be at the jump festival
Post by: Doobie on April 13, 2004, 08:34:40 PM
Post by: Doobie on April 13, 2004, 08:40:06 PM
Post by: ThePerm on April 13, 2004, 09:00:19 PM
Post by: Darc Requiem on April 13, 2004, 09:37:53 PM
Darc Requiem
Post by: TooShort on April 13, 2004, 10:13:18 PM
Nintendo, through its stubborn ways and insane philosophies, have driven their best allies away. Not only are us fans, or at least those of us who will stay with Nintendo (myself not necessarily included), going to be stuck with Wario Ware, Kirby's Air Ride and other 1 and 2 button games, but we're going to have to play it on hardware that's at least a generation behind the competition's, that won't have any 3rd party support. Gee, that sounds grand.
What ever happened to the great multiplayer games? What ever happened to the innovative gameplay? You say, Nintendo, that innovation is what the industry needs, yet you come out with crap games that wouldn't have been more innovative on the Game & Watch! These games are less fun than they are innovative and yet you still operate under the illusion that you are the best developer in the world. And the only developers that you had that were still willing to make fun and innovative games? You alienate and send them running for the hills. I'm surprised you are where you are right now in the race, but don't think that won't change. People will grow tired of your crap as I have!
Goodbye Nintendo! We had some good times, but you failed me in the end. I won't take your crap anymore. I hope you have a quick and painless death, only long enough for you to realize your follies.
Post by: Ocarina Blue on April 13, 2004, 10:15:13 PM
Someone pointed out that Nintendo never disclosed how much of SK they owned. They also mentioned that Denis owns some shares in the company. If Silicon is a listed company, and Nintendo owns a minimum of 10%, it's concievable that another company could actually buy a larger potion of SK [than Nintendo has] without revealing it. Not likely, though.
Darc Requiem is right; Nitendo is pissing off too many of it's somewhat numerous hardcore fans by having this sort of crap happen, especially when it happens by suprise. SK was prehaps the best anecdote Nintendo had as a 2nd party; being based in North America, making 'mature' games et cetera.
Darc Requiem and Ian Sane should get together and form a website with rants whenever something like this happens. I'd read it.
Post by: Armed on April 13, 2004, 10:53:01 PM
Post by: ruby_onix on April 13, 2004, 11:40:01 PM
Quote
Nintendo has recently formed a new fund that will be used to buy into smaller companies. Gamasutra reported it not long ago.
Supposedly it's not a new fund, it's just the first time most people have heard of it.
GameSpot Rumor Control
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2004, 02:24:58 AM
Iwata is going to be the downfall of Nintendo, on the NIN tombstone they will write, "thanks Iwata".
Iwata fails to realize that other companies have good games as well, and that his companies games no longer have anywhere near the impact they once had. This man is so out of touch with the North American market, that if this is Nintendo's doing, again I wouldnt be suprised either.
If they dont think this will hurt their sales in the long run then they all need to give their heads a shake.
As for all the people who think this is a joke. GET F'IN REAL. SK is done with NIN, plain and simple. They "may" make games still. Translation "we will never work with these clowns again".
HAve fun debating this folks, IMO this is an open and shut case.
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 14, 2004, 02:43:58 AM
I'm waiting for more info about break up (if we do that is), before I decide what to think about this. But lately, I've been worried about Nintendo and the direction they are going. Heck, I haven't really been impressed with their 1st party titles this gen. What are my top 2 GC games to date? One is a freakin' port and the other is a remake. Go figure.
Post by: Ymeegod on April 14, 2004, 03:12:01 AM
And I think it was Nintendo that kinda forced SK into making Twin Snakes too and place it's "Too Human" on the back burner. Sk sounds like the are more interested in making orginal games.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 03:16:19 AM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 03:28:04 AM
Quote
And I think it was Nintendo that kinda forced SK into making Twin Snakes too and place it's "Too Human" on the back burner. Sk sounds like the are more interested in making orginal games.
You obviously don't know anything about Denis Dyack- long before Twin Snakes was even conceived of he would talk droves about how much he loves Metal Gear Solid- Twin Snakes was like a dream project for him. I think it's hilarious how you're all speculating about every possible reason and yet none of them sound real at all! I mean, how is Iwata a nutjob, cubed? Because he has ethics? Strange, I thought those who didn't were called the nutjobs, but you must be more knowledgeable on the subject than I. ::rolls eyes::
It's funny, because as much as you guys think it sounds stupid that this may be a joke, you can't for the life of you come up with any better reason.
I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, and in fact I'm probably wrong, but this being a publicity stunt sounds a hell of a lot more believable than anything you guys have cooked up.
Post by: Plugabugz on April 14, 2004, 03:29:47 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2004, 03:37:40 AM
Are you for real? Objective? Since when is living in a fantasy world wishing for a differant outcome of a known fact considered objective?
Your stance on Nintendo is as far from objective as anyones I have ever read.
Again the pot calls the kettle black.
THis however is not the point of the thread, and I was simply staing my point of view, one which I do not need to justify to you.
In short, I think this will hurt nintendo huge, I also think the current team runnign nintendo couldnt be more out of touch with the reality of the gaming world.
Say whatever you will, hope all you want, this is over.
Post by: Ymeegod on April 14, 2004, 03:47:48 AM
Why would re-making a game that you already played be a dream fantasy? There's a big ole difference of being a fan and being the developer. Like I said, he sounds like he pefers making orginal games (plot) than having one handed to him.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 03:54:24 AM
Ymeegod: Wouldn't you love recreating your favorite game of all time? Honestly, read any interview with Denis Dyack, and I'm sure he'll say the same thing now- Nintendo didn't force SK to make Twin Snakes. That sounds loonier than anything anyone can claim I'm coming up with.
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 14, 2004, 03:56:36 AM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 04:00:48 AM
Post by: odifiend on April 14, 2004, 04:01:49 AM
The joke would be nice but Nintendo's PR wouldn't have confirmed it if it was. And the phrasing they used is typical of a break up. Thinking this is an insanity effect is really unrealistic at this point but let me tell you I would be the first to admit I was wrong and laughing while doing it.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 04:06:49 AM
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 14, 2004, 04:15:38 AM
Post by: Ymeegod on April 14, 2004, 04:21:42 AM
He's always talking about new & fresh but lets face it, TS wasn't new.
And No MC, I wouldn't want to make a remake of a game that I enjoyed. Rather make a sequel myself. :0.
Post by: Ymeegod on April 14, 2004, 04:27:50 AM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 14, 2004, 04:40:28 AM
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I wonder if Pong is another favorite game of Denis'? Seriously, that'd be the best remake ever. I'd be all like "I'm playing Pong" and the GameCube would be totally like "I'm struggling because of the sloppy PAL conversion" and I'd go get some corn chips. The guy at the counter would be all like "Here's your change" and I'd go "Oh yeah" and pelvic thrust the air.
classic infernal... absolutely classic
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 04:58:44 AM
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Don't think he knew that he was going be working on a re-make until later on.
Reread those interviews- Dyack has said many times that shortly after Eternal Darkness was released he had a meeting with Miyamoto and Kojima in Japan and they asked him if he wanted to remake the original Metal Gear Solid. Look, you're chasing ghosts, ymeegod, this is a moot point- hell, email Denis yourself if you want and I'm sure he'll tell you not only did he enjoy making Twin Snakes a great deal but Nintendo didn't force him in the manner you're describing. You guys have to have better reasons than this.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 14, 2004, 05:28:57 AM
Post by: odifiend on April 14, 2004, 05:31:59 AM
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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Silicon Knights has released 2 Gamecube games, one of which is less than month old- it's not because of sales. And look, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if this does turn out to be real, but like I said, it being joke sounds a hell of a lot more believable than anything you guys have come up with.
Unless it was SK disappointed with sales and not Nintendo. It is not at all unreasonable to cancel a second party deal if the market you're exclusively developping for isn't buying. They really deserve to do much better.
I certainly think that is more reasonable than the president of SK and Nintendo PRs out right lying to news media officials but whatever
.
Post by: CaseyRyback on April 14, 2004, 05:55:40 AM
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Originally posted by: odifiendQuote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Silicon Knights has released 2 Gamecube games, one of which is less than month old- it's not because of sales. And look, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if this does turn out to be real, but like I said, it being joke sounds a hell of a lot more believable than anything you guys have come up with.
Unless it was SK disappointed with sales and not Nintendo. It is not at all unreasonable to cancel a second party deal if the market you're exclusively developping for isn't buying. They really deserve to do much better.
I certainly think that is more reasonable than the president of SK and Nintendo PRs out right lying to news media officials but whatever
I agree. Add to that there was no real marketing push behind either of their games and you have an unhappy developer
Post by: Zeks on April 14, 2004, 07:00:48 AM
Not to mention the huge majority of Nintendo fans online and how they grow more stupid day-by-day. Example: Windwaker "Oh nooo look at his face !@&#*" now, most ppl love it and its already sold 3mill on-par with TOoT. MP "This visor thing is weird, wtf is a FPA???" now, its sold pleanty of its share and regarded as one of the gen. most orginal games. Rare " OMFG they sold them WTF %^^*%^)*" then we found out why.
I could go on but Im tired. Point is you guys should try and be decent which means use your freaking 'critical thinking' if you have any. Could this be more money to buy some other, more prominent developer??? or a tech. partner for N5/GCNext and the future??? Bottom line, quit with all the whinning and crying "TIS D00MEDED" crap and wait till E3 atleast to see whats up. But I see 2 more forum topics regarding this issue and the shear stupid-ness. Atleast the Nintendojo Forums has come to the conclusion(for the most part) that this money can be towards something more benifitial to Ninty. N-sider Forums Never 'freaked out'.
And for the last time ppl get it straight, SK WAS the ONLY 2nd party dev. Goodness, Retro is 100% in-house 1st party dev. Plus we make up the very SMALL portion of N-fans cause we're online, ONLINE. How many ppl do u think really know who SK is hmmm? next to ziltch. So dont go crying that this is gonna have some Never Happening(lol) effect.
Post by: NeonDestruction on April 14, 2004, 07:11:24 AM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2004, 07:14:40 AM
I read your post and I dont see how anyone can possibly think this a joke, unless they are seriously delusional.
Sk is gone. If this was a friendly split and SK was still going to make games for NIN they would have said so. I see Dennis as trying to break this as softly as he can, hence, the we "may" still make make NIN games.
I honestly believe what Ian said earlier to be true. Dennis must have seen what Iwata has planned and decided he liked the lifeboat better than the bucket.
Trying to put a positive spin on this just isnt doable, and hoping its a joke is simply unrealistic.
I also agree with the omen in that I believe that Sony has gobbled up SK and that SK is simply waiting for Sony to release the news as the bigger company usually does.
Any way you slice it, this is horrible news for Nintendo, especially when you add in the fact that Nin is no longer the force they once were on the console end of gaming. It is news like this that will eventually lead to their demise.
What I think will happen next is this:
- Sony announces SK an exclusive 2nd party
- the announce Too human for PS2 and a game for the PSP
- NIN will say this isnt a big deal
Time will tell
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2004, 07:32:36 AM
"It's not clear what direction we're going in,"
with this i can "have hope" as the mask maker said that whatever outcome this holds is a positive one......
Post by: The Omen on April 14, 2004, 08:39:54 AM
Post by: Evan_G on April 14, 2004, 08:45:44 AM
I don't consider Nintendo to be any better of a company than Sony or Microsoft, because they are large faceless multinational corporations. They do what they see best to make money, because that is their purpose.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2004, 09:13:40 AM
Uh, yeah. It costs over $100 to buy another system not including the game itself. It's a pretty big pain in the ass to have to pay that much for a game that a week ago I would assume would be released on the console I already own. Not everyone can afford to buy multiple consoles. Ideally most people want to buy one and hope that it will serve 90% of their needs. That's why Sega's current multiplatform strategy sucks and that's why it's a big deal when a developer drops Cube support. If Nintendo is doing their job I shouldn't have to buy another console.
"Iwatas comments have been very unusual. I cringe sometimes."
Ditto. With Yamauchi the worst I thought to myself was "man that old dude is such an arrogant prick." With Iwata it's "what the f*ck is he talking about? What the hell is he doing?"
Post by: evilnate on April 14, 2004, 09:21:31 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Is there anything wrong with buying another system if you really desire a game?"
Uh, yeah. It costs over $100 to buy another system not including the game itself. It's a pretty big pain in the ass to have to pay that much for a game that a week ago I would assume would be released on the console I already own. Not everyone can afford to buy multiple consoles. Ideally most people want to buy one and hope that it will serve 90% of their needs. That's why Sega's current multiplatform strategy sucks and that's why it's a big deal when a developer drops Cube support. If Nintendo is doing their job I shouldn't have to buy another console.
That's exactly what I've been thinking. Nintendo should be making every effort to make people not want or need another console. That's whats been wrong with Nintendo this entire generation. They have been positioning themselves not as the console to get, but as the second banana to the PS2 and the XBOX. It's sort of like they're saying, "If you're only going to buy one console this generation, make it a PS2 or XBOX, but if you're going to buy two make one of them a Gamecube."
Post by: couchmonkey on April 14, 2004, 09:40:39 AM
Meanwhile, Silicon Knights can develop for whomever it wants. I do agree Nintendo should be putting more effort into making and KEEPING exclusive games, but I'm not about to give up Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Star Fox and Pikmin to play one Silicon Knights game every two years.
Post by: Nephilim on April 14, 2004, 09:43:40 AM
Im guess is that SK has a game in the works, they have been very secretive about all there games and have said I believe they said they were working on 2 others, 1 not being Too human.
Im guessing that These Games to them are on the scale that they wish everyone to play them, there for happly walking away from a exclusive deal, allowing better sales and there name to become even more well known. If this position was true, It would not inflict any damage on Nintendo and future collabs.
*edit* this is just off my head, and not a true refection of anything in reality, no need to argue about my statement
2ndly Nintendo Love Hype and Being talked about, weither its them claiming Luigi's mansion its the most revultionary game ever (Yeah I remember that) or Selling Rare. It gets there Name in the paper and gets fanboys talking, which In the end is what every company wants.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 14, 2004, 10:05:27 AM
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Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Us Nintendo fans sure are whiney. This is sad news, but I'm tired of the old Nintendo is doomed reaction. I've seen it so many times in the past few years that it's meaningless to me now. I'll believe it when I see it.
Not all of us are like that...It's just that the whiney ones stand out more... ^_^
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 14, 2004, 10:15:10 AM
Post by: BigJim on April 14, 2004, 10:41:25 AM
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Originally posted by: evilnate That's exactly what I've been thinking. Nintendo should be making every effort to make people not want or need another console. That's whats been wrong with Nintendo this entire generation. They have been positioning themselves not as the console to get, but as the second banana to the PS2 and the XBOX. It's sort of like they're saying, "If you're only going to buy one console this generation, make it a PS2 or XBOX, but if you're going to buy two make one of them a Gamecube."
I don't think that's true at all. They've made it very clear that they believe exclusive titles are what draw consumers to one console over another, and the track record shows that for the most part the games that are exclusive, even if mostly first-party, have been successes. Still, it hasn't changed their position in this generation and can't be accused of being a source of their problems.
If there is a "problem" this generation, I'd say foremost it was being late to market, and secondly the added competition. Everybody is going to have a smaller piece of the pie when there are more competitors to deal with. Most other issues just followed as a domino effect to those.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2004, 10:46:09 AM
Yeah. Exclusive titles like the games SK used to provide for the Cube. Exclusive titles like what SK might make for the PS2 or Xbox that would require us to buy a competitor's console or miss out.
Post by: BigJim on April 14, 2004, 11:11:47 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"They've made it very clear that they believe exclusive titles are what draw consumers to one console over another"
Yeah. Exclusive titles like the games SK used to provide for the Cube. Exclusive titles like what SK might make for the PS2 or Xbox that would require us to buy a competitor's console or miss out.
Yep. All 2 games. And who's to say SK won't develop for Nintendo anymore just because an exclusitivity agreement ran out.
Update: If the Nintendo E3 pamphlet is legit (see that thread), it looks like Too Human is alive and well on GameCube.
Post by: Doobie on April 14, 2004, 11:41:32 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on April 14, 2004, 11:47:30 AM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 11:51:34 AM
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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"They've made it very clear that they believe exclusive titles are what draw consumers to one console over another"
Yeah. Exclusive titles like the games SK used to provide for the Cube. Exclusive titles like what SK might make for the PS2 or Xbox that would require us to buy a competitor's console or miss out.
I wouldn't worry about that, Ian. By the time SK would release an X-Box or PS2 game, the systems would be down to $99 by then. That's assuming they haven't been developing PS2 or X-Box games in secret!
Post by: Smashman on April 14, 2004, 11:53:56 AM
Post by: nolimit19 on April 14, 2004, 11:56:01 AM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 14, 2004, 12:20:01 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 12:29:05 PM
I am almost absoulotly not getting an N5. Im sick of this. 64 dissapoints and so does GCN. Bloddy hell
Post by: Informant on April 14, 2004, 12:32:47 PM
This makes me laugh. No, wait, it makes me freaking sick...
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 12:37:23 PM
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Originally posted by: Akage
"I am almost absoulotly not getting an N5. Im sick of this. 64 dissapoints and so does GCN. Bloddy hell"
This makes me laugh. No, wait, it makes me freaking sick...
Sick of me, or how everyone predicts the Apocyalpse for GCN ? ...or maybe sick because its true ?
Post by: Pinnacle on April 14, 2004, 12:38:45 PM
Post by: Informant on April 14, 2004, 12:41:33 PM
And to base your purchase of Nintendo's next system off this is incredibly childish.
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2004, 12:42:54 PM
no it isnt. If you like a certain companies games and they no longer support Nintendo, then it is perfectly justifiable to not buy Nintendo's console.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 14, 2004, 12:47:39 PM
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I think Nintendo and Microsoft should produce a console together. By all means, Nintendo do it. Sony could never defeat their combined resources even with their near monopoly playstation brand name.
unfortunately as a japanese company, i really can't see nintendo conceeding to a partnership with an american company, which would be regarded by many a result of nintendo's weaknesses.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 14, 2004, 12:52:28 PM
Um, who said anything about SK no longer supporting Nintendo? And basing the future purchase on a company that made 2 games IS stupid...It just shows that you shouldn't have bought the GC in the first place...
Post by: CHEN on April 14, 2004, 12:54:53 PM
Post by: thecubedcanuck on April 14, 2004, 12:56:22 PM
Post by: CHEN on April 14, 2004, 12:57:03 PM
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Originally posted by: joshnickerson
God, seriously, you act like Nintendo chewed Silicon Knights up, spit it out, called it sh!t and then sold them to Atari. From what I'm reading SK is simply a 3rd party like it was before, and it is totally free to continue a relationship with Nintendo while working on other consoles. Then you go on to say that you will never buy another Nintendo console again, Nintendo is failing, Nintendo disrespects all their second parties, Nintendo is going bankrupt, wah wah wah.
I seriously don't know why I bother coming to these forums anymore when every day you just deride Nintendo and second guess them constantly. If I wanted that I'd go to the IGN forums.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2004, 01:00:27 PM
The Cube was supposed to make up for the mistakes of the N64. In the end it failed to do so and the result is a console that is arguably even worse than the N64. Nintendo has let their fanbase down two consoles in a row now so why should anyone stick with them.
If they want me to buy an N5 at launch they better have the best launch title of all time. Or make a miraculous recovery with the Cube.
Post by: The Omen on April 14, 2004, 01:10:57 PM
Post by: CHEN on April 14, 2004, 01:12:34 PM
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Originally posted by: akdaman1
"I am almost absoulotly not getting an N5. Im sick of this. 64 dissapoints and so does GCN. Bloddy hell"
Quote
Sick of me, or how everyone predicts the Apocyalpse for GCN ? ...or maybe sick because its true ?
You're even dumber than I thought.
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I would bet $100,000 that SK doesnt make another Nin game.
You're on, my friend.
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2004, 01:24:05 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 14, 2004, 01:30:52 PM
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I've seen it so many times in the past few years that it's meaningless to me now. I'll believe it when I see it
When? When Mario is released on the X-box ? When you need Sony for a new Zelda? By then its too late.
Im trying to understand, how loosing support from Silicon Knights and Factor 5 is remotely good. The Nintendo fanboy argument when companies like Acclaim Eidos, Midway, Sega Sports ect took their buisness elsewhere, was "Well were better off anyways, their games were junk, Addition by subtraction". Not anymore. Factor 5, and SK, were the cream of the crop of the Exclusives Exclusives Sell consoles. Mario Party 6, Mario Golf Rehash, Pokemon Rehash ect Dont sell consoles ,they sell to the small fanbase. This year will be an important year for nintendo. If they dont turn the ship around, not even the DS will save them.
Post by: ruby_onix on April 14, 2004, 01:33:27 PM
The loss of Silicon Knights feels bigger than the loss of Rare. It was a "shocker" to lose Rare, but losing SK makes it look like a "trend".
Jonny had to mention that we knew for sure that Retro wasn't going anywhere, because Nintendo essentially "owns" them, instead of just an "investment", but is that what it takes? People will drop Nintendo and leave, if they're not strapped down to their chairs? Nintendo can't even hang onto the shreds of third party support that they have left, and now they're losing their second parties too? Won't be long before people question why Miyamoto still works for Nintendo. Oh wait, they already do...
However, I believe we need to wait for more info before we start jumping to wild conclusions (stares bankly at a LOT of this thread).
But at the very least, there does not seem to be any way in which this news can be a "good thing" for Nintendo fans. Or SK fans either, IMO.
Whatever happens, I wish Denis and the rest of SK (if you're still reading this stuff, which would be very commendable) the best of luck, wherever they end up, or whatever games they end up making. I just hope that the place you end up is right here. Pulling gems like the MSX versions of Metal Gear 1&2 (and maybe some unexpected stuff like Tokimeki Memorial) out of the Konami vault, for us horribly oppressed Nintendo fans.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 01:36:55 PM
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hmmm everyone is really freaking out, and you can tell who the newbies and the veterans are because the newbies always freak out ten times more. And of course there are also the constant pessimists who spin everything exactly in the opposite direction. Anyways i think its time to take a wait and see stance. Right now im on edge though and i hope a detailed explanation comes soon.
Perm, why don't you say stuff like this all the time?
I think you've hit the nail on the head 100%. You really should pipe up more often.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 01:47:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
By itself SK leaving Nintendo is probably not worth basing a console purchase decision on. But that combined with the departures of Rare, Factor 5, Acclaim, Midway, Sega Sports, and the NUMEROUS blatant f*ck ups that Nintendo commited with the Cube AND the disappointments in many of Nintendo's key titles like Mario and Zelda makes for a perfectly logical reason to not buy an N5.
The Cube was supposed to make up for the mistakes of the N64. In the end it failed to do so and the result is a console that is arguably even worse than the N64. Nintendo has let their fanbase down two consoles in a row now so why should anyone stick with them.
I couldn't agree more. I'm not nearly as mad about the third parties, but I only wanted one thing other than Smash Brothers this generation. That would be a Zelda that is almost as good as Ocarina or just as good as Link's Awakening, and Nintendo has still not delivered. I liked the Wind Waker's cel-shaded graphics, but lack of length and challenge in the dungeons disappointed me. I also don't like Aonouma's style of dungeons. They just don't feel like Zelda. My point is, Nintendo could not even deliver one thing to me, and they are letting all sorts of fans down. If they cannot even give their old and loyal fans what they want, then they have a lot of work to do.
Post by: ruby_onix on April 14, 2004, 01:49:19 PM
So, this all angst gets dumped into the "wait until E3" pile, by my book.
But you know, in that context, it really doesn't seem that big. There's bigger, more exiting stuff that I'm waiting for from E3.
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 14, 2004, 02:19:50 PM
As for the people saying they will not buy the N5/GCNext, hold your horses. That's 2 years away. Now isn't the time to make a decision on which console to buy next gen. Just wait and see. Heck, I don't know if I'm gonna buy Nintendo's next home console.
Post by: Rich on April 14, 2004, 02:43:53 PM
You want to buy Xbox2 or PS3 go ahead, but to say your buying them because they are supported by a development company that makes 3 games a generation is stupid. Sure those 3 games will be great but its not like I won't see any other great games from Nintendo. Despite what someone here said I still consider Nintendo's games above most 3rd party games with only a few exceptions(POP, VJ). I believe that I will still probably stick with Nintendo next generation. I mean last week I was perfectly content with my cube just because SK left doesn't mean that my Cube is now crap, which some of you seem to be implying. I think you guys are making this way bigger then it should be.
Post by: Doobie on April 14, 2004, 02:55:36 PM
Post by: vudu on April 14, 2004, 03:10:48 PM
i remember reading in an ign mailbag that someone found a website for a brand new developer that boasted having employees that had worked on both ed and mgs:tt. the mailbag can be found here. (at the time of this post the page won't load, but here's hoping it will come back.) i don't remember the name of the developer or the website. sorry. regardless, matt @ ign contacted denis regarding this news, and denis was quoted as saying something like "we have lots of employees leave all the time, but i have no idea who's a part of this new developer".
is it possible that all of sk's talent flew the coop and nintendo ended the relationship while the gettin' was good? it could be much like how nintendo sold off rare once the talent left, but before they lost value--nintendo got rid of all its stock in sk before the price dropped.
just a thought. no clue if there's any connection between the two pieces of information. also, i'm not saying dropping sk would be a good idea just because many core people left the company. my point is, don't be so quick to rag on nintendo before all the cards are laid on the table. i remember many people saying a lot of bad things about nintendo when rare was sold, but (at present time) it appears to have been a wise decision.
Post by: odifiend on April 14, 2004, 03:15:27 PM
I really think SK must have initiated the 2nd party break up. It just makes more sense that way.
BTW did you get your PM, vudu? IE failed on me as I was sending it.
Post by: vudu on April 14, 2004, 03:32:59 PM
and yea, i got it. it was a fairly immature joke, but i couldn't help but laugh.
Post by: The Omen on April 14, 2004, 03:55:59 PM
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its funny when people say they wont buy nintendos next system when we really know nothing about it yet. for all we know companys can easily jump back on a nintendo system as they have been dropping off.
Well, it appears to me that most people are saying they have to really think about which console to purchase next gen., which normally wasn't the case, at least not for me. As for companies jumping back on , great! But if that happens, I don't want to hear you jumping for joy, just as you're telling us to calm down the anger now. No overeacting ...ever
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 04:04:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Akage
Sick of whiny people like you who claim the end of Nintendo because of the "loss" of a team that did very little in terms of sales for Nintendo.
And to base your purchase of Nintendo's next system off this is incredibly childish.
Ian said exactly what I was feeling.
Honeslty I wasnt a MAJOR fan of Silikon Knights. But it seems each week some devoloper leaves Nintendo or a exclusive goes to PS2. Hell I might buy a GCNext if the line-up is the greatest ever line-up.
The only thing good to come out of this generation was Retro and SK, Retro who are very small and doesnt make many games. And Sk who right now are gonna work on other consoles as well.
Oh and theres a but of a difference beetween whiny and pissed.
Heres to hoping for a major E3.
Post by: Rich on April 14, 2004, 04:18:05 PM
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Honeslty I wasnt a MAJOR fan of Silikon Knights. But it seems each week some devoloper leaves Nintendo or a exclusive goes to PS2. Hell I might buy a GCNext if the line-up is the greatest ever line-up.
Yeah but there is a difference between saying that you have been considering not buying Nintendo's N5 before yesterday and SK leaving was the straw that broke the camals back and saying that before this you were definetly buying the "N5" and now you don't think your will buy the next console just because of this incident. Like I said, Silicon Knights wasn't that big.
Post by: chaos on April 14, 2004, 04:20:52 PM
1 Nintendo and Silicon Knights have had a difference of opinion and so parted ways, normally in business's its quite common however both Silicon Knights and Nintendo aren't normal business's whom both seem to have worked perfectly together and would in my opinion be a bit stupid to throw away over an argument.
2 Well it's "contractually over" so maybe Nintendo decided the Silicon Knights were loyal enough to stay exclusive while being a 3rd party
3 I dont know if anyone else thinks this but if I was in charge of a games company I would prefer to be independent not because of money but to prove I can run my own business without outside help (of course I would remain exclusive for as long as possible)
4 Mr. Dyack has said many times that he would like to do more collaboration with other companies maybe Nintendo has some sort of plan with this!
5 I noticed that with Twin Snakes that it made many people contemplate getting a Playstation 2 for Sons of Liberty possibly actually helping the PS2 more than Nintendo now think if Silicon Knights releases an amazing game across all consoles gaining a huge fanbase but then remain exclusively for the N5 using the same tactic which they would have just seen with their own game, there by giving it a boost for the launch of the N5 from the flock of new fans
6 Its an insanity effect I know its unlikely but it could turn out to be the biggest joke in gaming history I wouldn't put it past them, does anyone else think its strange the abrubteness of it all these are the only explanation I see as possible
I saw some quite odd and unlikely reasons behind this too
1 Their philosophies clash: Rubbish this would be more reason to stay as they would compensate eachother's weakpoints
2 Nintendo is joining with Microsoft and so Silicon Knights wanted no part in it: Nintendo would not join with Microsoft because they would simply lose more than they would gain; independence money (dont get forget Microsoft just cant turn a profit from the X-box) diferent business ethics (this is different from above as SK and Nintendo hold relatively honourable business practices unlike Microsoft which is well known for its slyness ) to put it simply Nintendo cant trust Microsoft.
P.S I like many of the X-box's games I just don't agree with their ethic's
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 14, 2004, 04:35:20 PM
Quote
Yeah but there is a difference between saying that you have been considering not buying Nintendo's N5 before yesterday and SK leaving was the straw that broke the camals back and saying that before this you were definetly buying the "N5" and now you don't think your will buy the next console just because of this incident. Like I said, Silicon Knights wasn't that big.
Its not simply SK, its the bigger picture. If you look at the loss of SK and Factor 5 in the bigger picture, its not pretty. Sure you could make the argument that loosing a company that made 2 games, isnt important. Problem is, Sk attracted mature gamers to the console (Something that will be much harder now) Factor 5 Attracted mature gamers. These are the gamers that Nintendo needs to go after if they plan on surviving. If you add the loss of these two exclusives, to the long list of third parties. It gets grimmer. Third Parties pay royaltees to Nintendo to make games for the system. Its a way to make money. Without Third Parties you make less money. This is no the kind of things that should be happening to Nintendo before the PSP Arrives. Nintendo needs to make a strong showing at E3 and beyond. This is a desperate thing.
I do wish Dennis would explain himself more throughly. He doesnt owe us an explenation but it could certainly help. Why make public comments on how you liked Nintendo, and how you wanted to make Kid Icarus, and Zelda, and Two Human, and then suddenly leave? Are things that bad with Nintendo? The rappidness of this move is whats so shocking and troubling to me.
Post by: Darc Requiem on April 14, 2004, 04:35:59 PM
Also, I am so sick of the weak opposing view that some others have presented to our growing displeasure with Nintendo. When your most loyal and diehard customers begin to doubt you. You have a serious problem. Saying it doesn't matter we still have Metroid Prime 2 doesn't cut it. Nintendo has continued to ignore us and at this point I no longer believe Nintendo knows best. They've have continued to make boneheaded decisions and I really miss Yamauchi. Yes he was arrogant and we mocked him but Iwata seems certifiable. At least under Yamauchi, Nintendo said what they did. Iwata talks out of his ass. He says Nintendo is going after older gamers but Nintendo has done little if anything to prove their sincerity. The fact that they've lost SK and Capcom seems to be backing off its support speaks volumes.
When the GC was launching, I saw its flaws but I thought it was a great step forward for Nintendo. The thing about it was that some of the Gamecubes flaws were blatantly obviously to anyone. The purple color and pathetic memory card size were inexcusable. Its seem Nintendo was aware these issues, SD adapter and Jet Black alternate color, but in current Nintendo fashion basically dismissed them. Thats the way Nintendo currently handles all of its problems. Lip service and broken promises. Think about some the issues Nintendo has. Think about how they handled them.
BTW I won't even start on their poor decisions with 3rd parties....that would be a thread all its own.
Darc Requiem
"Hmm....maybe I should do this professionally."
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 04:44:50 PM
I must admit though thius years line-up is still one of the best.
Fire Emblem
Metroid Prime 2
Wind Waker 2
Mario 100
Paper MARIO
GEIST ( This will rule )
Hope
Game Zero ( Hopefully )
Resident Evil 4
Baten KAitos ( Dont expect this to stay exclusive )
Tales of Symphonia ( the ps2 version is only in Jap )
Custom Robo
There are many more but im sure you already know them.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 04:49:54 PM
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 14, 2004, 04:59:47 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: ThePerm
hmmm everyone is really freaking out, and you can tell who the newbies and the veterans are because the newbies always freak out ten times more. And of course there are also the constant pessimists who spin everything exactly in the opposite direction. Anyways i think its time to take a wait and see stance. Right now im on edge though and i hope a detailed explanation comes soon.
may b it is the newbies that arn't freaking out as much as they should. I have been coming to pgc for ever and i had put up with so much of this. Im not saying that nintendo owners are dumb %&^&s because of breaking up with sk but im saying it because they are dumb %&^&s. Its people that are like "nintendo knows what they are doing they have a plan" that make nintendo think that they do.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 05:02:58 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 05:04:19 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 05:05:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Whether Nintendo is worth giving up on right now or not is a moot point- it's ENTIRELY subjective, and has been discussed more than is either required or even healthy. This is a thread about Silicon Knights and their [apparent lack of a] relationship with Nintendo- I think it'd be best if we kept to that topic.
Sorry for going semi-offtopic.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 05:06:47 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 05:10:50 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 14, 2004, 05:12:52 PM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 05:15:17 PM
Look beyond the veil of reality!
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 05:23:15 PM
It's possible he and IGN teamed up to get the word out. And if this is real, which it probably is, I honestly really don't care- I mean, come on people, we're talking about videogames. You shouldn't let your life revolve around something so insignificant. It sucks SK is gone, but it's not going to affect the way I live my life. A lot of people are really overreacting.
Post by: DrkStarTTD on April 14, 2004, 05:30:59 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 14, 2004, 05:35:59 PM
Quote
think nintendo is alot worse off then we all think
Possibly. A Baseball allusion if you will. Nintendo cant compete with the Microsofts of the world, so they need to work with smaller development teams and build them up to SK, Rare level, then break off and start over. Zoonami, Kuju and N-Space seem to me like 3 possible candidates for this. Work with them to make good games, build them up and then let them go. Sort of how smaller market teams like the Oakland Athletics comepte with the Yankees and the Sox. Moneyball, basically.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 14, 2004, 05:51:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: DrkStarTTD
Nintendo just lost alot of money because of the extange rate or something right maybe they just can't afford sk anymore. I think nintendo is alot worse off then we all think
That's not a very good theory. SK is a relatively small studio. If Nintendo desperately needed them, they could get them with their $6 billion. I just want to hear more from Dyack. We need answers! Will SK develop for N-Gage or not?
Post by: The Omen on April 14, 2004, 06:06:22 PM
Quote
And if this is real, which it probably is, I honestly really don't care- I mean, come on people, we're talking about videogames. You shouldn't let your life revolve around something so insignificant. It sucks SK is gone, but it's not going to affect the way I live my life. A lot of people are really overreacting.
I care in this realm, which is the video game realm. Obviously, when my truck breaks down on I95, I don't think, "OMG! SK and Nintendo are no more!" Just as I don't come on here and blab about my truck breaking down. This is a GC site, and reactions are based on the GC universe, not real life. Its an alternate reality, and one is allowed to react just like one would in his other, real world.
Sorry to get all dimensional. Now I have a headache.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 06:32:05 PM
Post by: Syl on April 14, 2004, 06:42:17 PM
The (sad) fact is, SK didn't sell many games, despite how amazing talented as a devoloper they are. They weren't really making a profit. When MGS:TTS was first announced, I saw it as a last chance for SK to make a profit to cover from the ED losses. I'm not entirely sure about this, but apparently MGS:TTS didn't sell nearly as well as hoped.
Nintendo, being in the business for money, probably was like "SK, we love you guys and all... but you just aren't making us any money". Which is probably why SK is now free to develop for more than just nintendo.
At the very least, SK now has a better chance to survive, I personally don't care if a title is no longer Nintendo-Exclusive, As long as SK can stay in business and continue making games, im fine with whatever choices Denis has to make.
You have to remember there are 2 points of view here, Nintendo's and SK's.
Post by: Rich on April 14, 2004, 07:09:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect CellQuote
Yeah but there is a difference between saying that you have been considering not buying Nintendo's N5 before yesterday and SK leaving was the straw that broke the camals back and saying that before this you were definetly buying the "N5" and now you don't think your will buy the next console just because of this incident. Like I said, Silicon Knights wasn't that big.
Its not simply SK, its the bigger picture. If you look at the loss of SK and Factor 5 in the bigger picture, its not pretty. Sure you could make the argument that loosing a company that made 2 games, isnt important. Problem is, Sk attracted mature gamers to the console (Something that will be much harder now) Factor 5 Attracted mature gamers. These are the gamers that Nintendo needs to go after if they plan on surviving. If you add the loss of these two exclusives, to the long list of third parties. It gets grimmer. Third Parties pay royaltees to Nintendo to make games for the system. Its a way to make money. Without Third Parties you make less money. This is no the kind of things that should be happening to Nintendo before the PSP Arrives. Nintendo needs to make a strong showing at E3 and beyond. This is a desperate thing.
Like I said if people here have been thinking about leaving Nintendo before the Silicon Knights announcement then please go and buy an Xbox or a PS2, whatever will satisfy them. But if they went into this week thinking "oh man the N5 is gonna be the sh!t" then why would the loss of Silicon Knights make them not want it at all. Oh and by the way Factor5 didn't leave Nintendo, they don't have any Gamecube software in development because they are currently working on the next generation software. Check the Factor5 thread if you want to see what I'm talking about. but many people here are considering not buying the next console only because Silicon Knights isn't exclusive. Thats stupid your gonna base your console decision all on who is supported by Silicon Knights, who'll probably make three games next generation. and we all know how many adult gamers SK attracted. And YES I know how Nintendo makes their money, true they aren't going to be making as much money off those two as before but im still pretty sure that they will make money so either way it won't make a big impact on Nintendo's financial report.
Listen, if the loss of the recent developers and publishers upsets you, go and buy a PS2 because SK leaving really wont change a thing. Don't misunderstand me, I'm sad, I wish they werent leaving but they are and I don't believe it will make any noticeable change.
Aran: MGS:TTS has been out for less then a month, there is no way Nintendo would look at that and say "you guys arent performing well, goodbye"
MC: whatever happen to Grey Ninja?
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 14, 2004, 07:15:34 PM
Quote
MC: whatever happen to Grey Ninja?
He got fed up with PGC- not the boards (I don't think), but the site itself. He thinks the site went way down hill after Billy left and Johnny's first editorial was what pushed him over the edge. He's been gone for over a month now, although he did post a short message in the Talkback SK thread, which was ironically eaten up.
Post by: ThePerm on April 14, 2004, 07:54:58 PM
Post by: theRPGFreak on April 14, 2004, 08:24:56 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 14, 2004, 08:47:35 PM
I think it's worth noting that Too Human was rumoured to be a launch title for the N5 or more importantly THE big launch title like Halo was to the Xbox. With SK no longer a second party that seems less likely to happen so for some the main reason to buy an N5 is gone. In my mind the "dream" scenario for the N5 to be a huge success relied on Too Human as a launch title. It was the most important part of the launch. It HAD to be there. Now it probably won't be so the whole "plan" has to be completely overhauled. In other words the rumoured launch lineup for the N5 has lost it's flagship title.
Last week I was in the mindset that if the N5 launched with Too Human and the game turned out to be half of what it's rumoured to be I would buy it at launch, no questions asked. Now I'm unsure about buying at launch. I have to take a wait-and-see approach. The N5 launch lineup is now largely unknown and I think it's natural for people to have second thoughts over an unknown launch lineup instead of a rumoured one with a major killer app.
Post by: akdaman1 on April 14, 2004, 11:14:51 PM
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 15, 2004, 02:02:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
How ironic...Who was the one saying that they weren't buying Ninty's next system because SK left?
Post by: KDR_11k on April 15, 2004, 04:22:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
Us not, but the XBox crowd would.
Post by: Infernal Monkey on April 15, 2004, 04:49:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
Third to quote this, go for one more, Connect Four!
Er, yeah. I got an N64 for Mario 64, and I got a GameCube for Smash Bros. Melee. Two established series. I'm sure the majority of people who purchased a Dreamcast at launch got it for Sonic Adventure, too.
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 15, 2004, 04:53:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
draw two! draw FOUR! SUFFAHHH oh shi wate, wrong game CONNECT FOUR.
i got my GBA for pokemon, got my gcn for smash bros, got my n64 for Mario 64, got my dreamcast for Sonic Adventure, oh hay Infernal is pretty much teh same as me.
Post by: vudu on April 15, 2004, 06:35:41 AM
Quotelike everyone else said ... yes. i got my gc for mario and zelda. everything else is just icing on the cake.
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
Post by: yellowfellow on April 15, 2004, 06:39:38 AM
Quotei am just being obnoxious
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
...but i did get my n64 for goldeneye and zelda
Post by: ThePerm on April 15, 2004, 07:39:17 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 15, 2004, 07:55:56 AM
What about GTA3?
On the whole "would you buy a console for one game" thing I would buy a console just for Zelda. But I think the amount of people that absolutely HAVE to play the newest Mario and Zelda game is shrinking and their selling power just isn't what it used to be. It's likely because a lot of the current market is unfamiliar with anything beyond the Playstation so the Nintendo classics have no effect on them. Nintendo has to create a new flagship franchise for the newer audience to indentify with. They have with Pokemon but sadly they have only put the "real" games in that series on the Gameboy.
I guess that's rather off-topic. I'll tie it in by saying that Silicon Knights had the potential to make that new flagship franchise.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 15, 2004, 08:03:09 AM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on April 15, 2004, 08:24:59 AM
Post by: jpturner on April 15, 2004, 08:50:35 AM
I would also disagree about the Killer App. for this gen. being limited to Halo.
In addition to GTA3, Sony's trump card has also been Final Fantasy (and no our own CC spin off, while OK to just better than OK, doesn't count for many FF fanatics). People buy the PS2 because it's the only game in town for this franchise.
The loss of Silicon nights is a major one in the war of perception of success. SK was an outspoken and highly respected Nintendo supporter. Who is going to fill that role now? Yes, Nintendo has a number of wonderful in-house development teams, but lets face it: we usually know about their products as they are produced. Like it or not the video game industry lives on hype and advertising, and without pre-release hype (none with mosts N games), you end up with games sales like UBI saw with Beyond Good & Evil.
Very disappointing.
.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 11:49:53 AM
Post by: Myxtika1 Azn on April 15, 2004, 11:56:22 AM
Post by: akdaman1 on April 15, 2004, 12:19:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: BillQuote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
How ironic...Who was the one saying that they weren't buying Ninty's next system because SK left?
You sorta dont understand what I said earlier.
I'm not a major fan of SK at all. But they had MAJOR potetiontal and its a sad loss. The reasons I might not buy GCNext is for a number of little reasons.
3rd parties just keep dropping off.
All exclusives can be found on another console.
1st party games are a dissapointment when compared to thier pedecessor.
Im afraid this stuff wont improve next generation.
Also I sorta see Metroid Prime as a killer App
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 12:32:13 PM
Quote
I don't really think that highly of Halo. Ninja Gaiden, on the other hand, kicks ass. That game is the only reason I bought the Xbox -- Shenmue 2 is like an added bonus to me.
I don't think too highly of Halo, either- it's a slightly above average FPS that was hyped beyond all rational thought. It's undeniably a killer app, though. I didn't really like Ninja Gaiden- it was Devil May Cry with a ninja, to me, even down to the orb collecting/redeeming. :/
Post by: stinkypete on April 15, 2004, 12:46:48 PM
The most interesting part is on page 4, near the end. I particularly like the "No, never. Ever." part.
I also find it disturbing that the only comments about this story are comming from Mr. Dyack, a.k.a. "The MindScrewer". He always does find a way of getting around things with words...
Well, I guess that means I'm with the crazy ones...
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 12:52:34 PM
Quote
GameSpy: Then Silicon Knights are not going anywhere?
Denis: No, never. Ever. And frankly, to consider us anything else but a part of Nintendo is a huge mistake. Because it's not ever gonna happen. We've had other publishers call us up. And we say, "Calling us is calling Nintendo. What would you like to do?" And with Konami, that's exactly what we're looking for!
The partnership has got a long time to go, and it gives me a long time to learn Japanese! I've been trying for three years now. One of my goals is to have a conversation with Miyamoto and Iwata and talk about game design philosophy entirely in Japanese. It's worthwhile -- it's a beautiful language, and I love the culture. There's so much to be admired, there's so much to learn from it. Our game design philosophy is based around Miyamoto Musashi's The Book of Five Rings ... and we were working on that years before we met Nintendo!
Good find, pete. The interview was done close to a year ago, but Denis is extremely adamant that Silicon Knights and Nintendo will never split.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 15, 2004, 01:01:31 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2004, 01:13:29 PM
Post by: manunited4eva22 on April 15, 2004, 01:44:45 PM
Oh well, not much to talk about until we find out whats going on...
Where is louie when you need the inside kitty?
Post by: stinkypete on April 15, 2004, 02:05:44 PM
It's supposed to be from EGM, but the site doesn't work right now so I can't confirm.
Anyways, Mr.Dyack clearly implies that there is no difference whatsoever between Silicon Knights and Nintendo, as he's refering to Nintendo as "we". I think that's pretty self explanatory...
Please note that this interview only dates back to a couple months ago.
Now, let's be pessimistic, and assume that it was done three, heck, four months ago. What could possibly happen in four months of business as usual, that led SK to pull a 180 and turn away (pun intended) from Nintendo? Let's not forget that the report from IGN came out of nowhere, without any warning of internal rumblings from anyone. The more I read, the less I believe in this break up.
Post by: savanna03 on April 15, 2004, 02:12:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: akdaman1Quote
Originally posted by: BillQuote
Originally posted by: akdaman1
If they expect us to base our Console purchase on thier already established series then there mistaken. Mario is good n all but would any of you base your purchase on just 1 or 2 games ?
How ironic...Who was the one saying that they weren't buying Ninty's next system because SK left?
You sorta dont understand what I said earlier.
I'm not a major fan of SK at all. But they had MAJOR potetiontal and its a sad loss. The reasons I might not buy GCNext is for a number of little reasons.
3rd parties just keep dropping off.
All exclusives can be found on another console.
1st party games are a dissapointment when compared to thier pedecessor.
Im afraid this stuff wont improve next generation.
Also I sorta see Metroid Prime as a killer App
yeah man... i sorta agree with you. 3rd parties situation isn't really change. its true that CAPCOM, NAMCO, UBISOFT and EA are giving us games but not all of them. i still see games from them that is only found on PS2 or XBOX but the bad thing is, those games showing up on other console is a killer app type game while GCN get the left overs. RESIDENT EVIL 4 seems to be the only one that stands out. but then we got a bunch of remakes, bad ports and games that would make little kids happy.
1st party games isn't really encouraging either. im no graphic whore but it seems NINTENDO isn't even trying to make their games look pretty. the sequals plays like thesame and the plot of their game is for kindergarten student.
games that i dont have problem with is MELEE, WIND WAKER, SUNSHINE and PRIME. but the rest are just throw backs... nothing more but a quick buck.
NST has been disapointment with BLUE STORM and AVALANCHE... ill bet they just used the old N64 engine and optimize it for GCN. their are no new play mechanic like what they did with MELEE... all i see is just thesame old same old. (why cant we get rid of NST instead of SK... NST haven't done anything breath taking other than updating old games. ex: RIDGE RACER 64, BLUE STORM, AVALANCHE, CHRYSTALIS, BIONIC COMMANDO and etc. i swear that they haven't even made an original game yet.)
KIRBY AIR RIDE suck, POKEMON CHANNEL suck, COLLESEUM looks like an N64 game... so does MARIO GOLF, PARTY and KART... MARIO KART is the same old game except for character switching... thats it.
PIKMIN and ANIMAL FOREST are new... but the problem is that they didn't make the graphics be more appealing to the mainstream... if they did, more copies would have been sold.
HAL LABRATORIES doesn't make games other than KIRBY and SMASH BROS franchise. and their head guy just ditch them.
nothing new with EAD. probably just making another MARIO or ZELDA game that would upset the loyalist again.
INTELLIGENT SYSTEM and BROWNIE BROWN only makes game for gameboy.
RETRO STUDIO is the only company that has a bright future... but then again, they will probably be making METROID game for the rest of their career.
SILICON KNIGHT is the probably the only company with them that try to make an original game but they had to let them go.
arggghhhh... GCNEXT doesn't sound too hot either.
Post by: Ian Sane on April 15, 2004, 02:28:35 PM
I'll agree with you there. Those guys have yet to impress me. Even by cookie-cutter sequel standards Wave Race and 1080 were too similar to the originals.
I'll agree with the graphics issue but I'm not going to make a console decision based on that. I'll admit that others might but I certainly don't consider that a worthwhile reason for not choosing the N5.
I think Nintendo's problem this gen is that they've been relying too much on their existing franchises and that results in games like Mario Golf or Mario Party 4 which have no practical reason to exist other than to make money. Before it seemed that virtually every Nintendo game ever made had a purpose. If the title wasn't essential it wasn't made. Luckily this is something that can be corrected overnight. Nintendo just has to recognize the problem and be more selective with which sequels get the green light.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 02:33:48 PM
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 15, 2004, 02:39:31 PM
oh hey, Dennis Dyack was on the forums last night, Mario Termin8 Infernal and I (was pointed out by Mario actually) all saw his name on the 'whos on' part, he didn't post before leaving however. Perhaps he was too disgusted at all the angsty drama doom posts going on hay
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 02:50:54 PM
I've noticed Denis as being logged on a few times over the last few months- he visited IGN's boards yesterday, too, I think. Perhaps checking out how well his joke is going over?
Post by: Ian Sane on April 15, 2004, 02:56:07 PM
Sources indicate that Denis also made up the E3 pamphlet. It's all to promote their new game Simmegat0n: the first ever bogus internet rumours spreading game.
Source: My ass.
Post by: DrZoidberg on April 15, 2004, 02:58:24 PM
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 15, 2004, 02:59:10 PM
Quote
Source: My ass.
More reliable than IGN.
Post by: Berny on April 15, 2004, 03:46:06 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 15, 2004, 03:48:39 PM
(if he is still reading these responses at all...hell I'm sick of reading some of this rubbish but I feel obligated to make sure that I'm posting a new idea)
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 15, 2004, 03:58:32 PM
I guess there's still a chance all they're doing is porting MGS:TT over to other consoles to make some money, then resuming Nintendo support for the next generation with GCNext.
I mean, I can't explain the interview any other way... unless Ian is right and SK saw Nintendo committing harakiri in private.
In the end, I guess we just gotta wait and see exactly what this means. All sources so far are just stating that their exclusivity ended... I'd wait and see what non-exclusive games they're making before I panic.
Post by: Syl on April 15, 2004, 03:59:57 PM
http://www.ocremix.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35233
I've argued all these points and more in this thread, and it seems the people there, despite not being a nitnendo only forum, have more common sense than the sorry bunch thats left over here. =/
Its not the end of the world, hell, its not even the end of SK. just wait till E3.
Post by: ThePerm on April 15, 2004, 04:40:35 PM
Post by: yellowfellow on April 15, 2004, 07:10:58 PM
Quotemaybe he finally had the conversation and found it so underwhelming that he decided to find a new purpose...
GameSpy: Then Silicon Knights are not going anywhere?
Denis: No, never. Ever. And frankly, to consider us anything else but a part of Nintendo is a huge mistake. Because it's not ever gonna happen. We've had other publishers call us up. And we say, "Calling us is calling Nintendo. What would you like to do?" And with Konami, that's exactly what we're looking for!
The partnership has got a long time to go, and it gives me a long time to learn Japanese! I've been trying for three years now. One of my goals is to have a conversation with Miyamoto and Iwata and talk about game design philosophy entirely in Japanese. It's worthwhile -- it's a beautiful language, and I love the culture. There's so much to be admired, there's so much to learn from it. Our game design philosophy is based around Miyamoto Musashi's The Book of Five Rings ... and we were working on that years before we met Nintendo!
IGN did say that differing philosophies may have lead to the breakup
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 15, 2004, 07:22:06 PM
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 15, 2004, 07:32:39 PM
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 15, 2004, 07:42:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
I guess there's still a chance all they're doing is porting MGS:TT over to other consoles to make some money, then resuming Nintendo support for the next generation with GCNext.
Doubt it. I cannot see SK porting MGS: TTS to other consoles b/c Nintendo collaborated w/ Konami & SK. Plus the end credits had "Special thanks: Shigeru Miyamoto."
Post by: akdaman1 on April 15, 2004, 09:20:15 PM
Tell us why this has happened or if its true ?
Will you still develop for GCN ? What about other consoles?
Please answer.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 15, 2004, 10:42:59 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 12:33:08 AM
Nintendo pretty much cheaps out on sound while SK places a lot of emphasis on atmosphere and sound which obviously costs more money (for only a small pay off on the GCN). Nintendo's and SK's bottomlines clash, probably not the reason for a break up but I'm just saying...
Post by: jasonditz on April 16, 2004, 12:42:22 AM
Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga
That silly pseudo-Italian pidgin the Mario Bros. speak was great.
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 01:00:39 AM
). It was playing Pokemon Colosseum that I was initially like, 'WTF, Nintendo', with respect to sound. They only new sound they put into the game was the pokeballs opening and being recalled, and the subdued background music; everything else was recycled from the GBA game. Upon going back and playing my other games, I noticed similar trends. The only Nintendo games that I own that seem on in the sound department are SSBM, Metroid Prime, WW, and Double Dash. That's four out of eight.Post by: mouse_clicker on April 16, 2004, 03:15:32 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 16, 2004, 03:27:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
The only Nintendo games that I own that seem on in the sound department are SSBM, Metroid Prime, and Double Dash. That's three out of eight.
I might have to kill you for not having Wind Waker on there...
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 03:38:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Nintendo pretty much cheaps out on sound while SK places a lot of emphasis on atmosphere and sound which obviously costs more money (for only a small pay off on the GCN). Nintendo's and SK's bottomlines clash, probably not the reason for a break up but I'm just saying...
I don't blame you for not reading other posts b/c the thread is kind of long at this point
. I'm just trying to throw ideas out there as opposed to ranting. If you read my posts, they contradict themselves constantly with regards to what could have caused the separation. If a possible scenario occurs to me, I post it as this is the SK and Nintendo thread as you so eloquently put it .Also it is obvious that voice acting costs more money and Nintendo doesn't have its war chest by spending on voice acting. It could be possible that Nintendo suggested that SK drop voice acting so both companies don't lose as much money and production time, and SK may have become disillusioned with Nintendo. Possible, not probable.
Bill: Fine, I'll put WW on there, too. I was probably being biased cuz I just don't like the game. Though the sailing music along with sailing got old for me, the battle music was great as usual in a Zelda game as were the SFX.
Post by: yellowfellow on April 16, 2004, 05:15:52 AM
QuoteI do see not using voice-acting as an off-shoot of maybe differing philosophies, however, I'm not so sure a lack of voice acting is due so much to a unwillingness to spend money. SK are a content heavy studio; they like making games that tell elaborate stories and the like. Nintendo on the other hand have always been more focused on making the play of the game stand out while the story seems to take a back seat. not to say nintendo games don't have stories, but i think it's miyamoto's philosophy to have the person playing the game feel like it is them "in the game"... zelda is good example i think. granted other characters in the game can have voices while leaving the main character speechless, so my theory is obviously not the definitive reason, however, i do believe it maybe a part of their reluctance to use voice.
Also it is obvious that voice acting costs more money and Nintendo doesn't have its war chest by spending on voice acting. It could be possible that Nintendo suggested that SK drop voice acting so both companies don't lose as much money and production time, and SK may have become disillusioned with Nintendo. Possible, not probable.
Post by: ThePerm on April 16, 2004, 06:50:45 AM
Post by: vudu on April 16, 2004, 09:58:13 AM
Quotewho's to say that it was sk that "dumped" nintendo? perhaps it was the other way around.
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
That interview freaks me out. What could possibly make Silicon Knights go from "the partnership has got a long time to go" to ending the partnership only a year later? Something BIG must have happened. I really want to find out the details now.
as i said before, i read in an ign mailbag that "a few" sk employees had recently left the company to start another. perhaps "a few" means many (or even all, minus denis) of the key development people have left sk and nintendo didn't want to float the bill for future games.
it's also possible that since denis didn't want sk to be a 2nd party, sk was having troubles paying the bills by only selling games on nintendo consoles. if sk wants (a) to remain independent, and (b) to make enough money to survive, developing for non-nintendo platforms might have been necessary. i think i'm in the majority here when i said a multi-platform sk game is better than no sk game at all.
Post by: jasonditz on April 16, 2004, 11:12:44 AM
Maybe Nintendo didn't feel "Grabbed by the Eternal Darkness" was a noteworthy sequel.
Post by: jasonditz on April 16, 2004, 11:13:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: odifiend
Hah, yeah I've got M&L, and I still go around saying Luigi's catch phrase.
Which one? Whenever someone I know who is familiar with the title says something dubious, I still do the "Oh yeah!" voice with the Luigi laughing motion.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 02:54:05 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 03:01:19 PM
RE-Edit: VOID
Just read the ign boards via zombie luke, apparantly there is a god and he loves to test those "on the edge" with regards to Nintendo. Hell yes, I was so wrong. Point and laugh at my tears...of joy!
*seizes with pleasure*
So what's the word? Is there in fact a ED2 in the works and this is a stunt for promotion purposes? Why did Dennis decide now was a good time to deny the claim-in an IGN message board no less? I know many don't trust IGN, and while I agree they are opinionated professionals, they are professionals none the less. I don't understand how they got two wrong confirmations from both parties unless it is a ruse. And if it is a ruse, other than "Haha half of Nintendo's fans are pessimistic and a fourth are whiners," where the hell is the bloody punchline?
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 03:15:05 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 03:20:42 PM
. But I fuess that does answer alot of those questions, eh?
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 03:25:30 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 16, 2004, 03:28:43 PM
Post by: akdaman1 on April 16, 2004, 03:30:28 PM
Post by: odifiend on April 16, 2004, 03:36:46 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 16, 2004, 04:06:39 PM
It's just that I can read his thoughts...and...err...*runs away*
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 04:39:54 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 16, 2004, 04:49:41 PM
The Darkness Comes!
Post by: Mario on April 16, 2004, 04:52:26 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 16, 2004, 04:52:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: the_zombie_luke
How come the time that SK news was posted here at PGC was at 3:33 PM?
It's nothing...You're just going insane...
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 04:55:51 PM
Post by: Gremio on April 16, 2004, 05:10:35 PM
"The information that I have is that Silicon Knights is now free to make games for other platforms. In the past, they developed games exclusively for use on Nintendo systems. "
:/
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 16, 2004, 05:15:02 PM
link
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 16, 2004, 05:15:07 PM
THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Post by: kpw22 on April 17, 2004, 07:46:14 AM
Post by: Avinash_Tyagi on April 17, 2004, 07:48:58 AM
This is the most likely explanation, not because of any ill will or anything else, just $$$$.
But I seriously doubt this will be the end of SK games on ninty consoles, more than likely the games will still all end up on the cube and N5, this just means that many will also find their way to Sony and MS consoles, same as what Factor 5 is planning on doing with the next generation consoles.
Post by: savanna03 on April 17, 2004, 08:20:54 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 17, 2004, 08:30:32 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 17, 2004, 10:16:18 AM
Post by: savanna03 on April 17, 2004, 11:45:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bill
It's still going slowly, but finally people are finally opening their eyes...
hey bill, do u know anything??? the way u post made it seem u know whats up. aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh your playing mind game and im going insane... aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh... ...lol OH MAN.
Post by: Zeks on April 17, 2004, 02:36:47 PM
.
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 17, 2004, 05:09:20 PM
Post by: Mario on April 17, 2004, 05:14:47 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 17, 2004, 05:22:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: AiAi
You people are looking into this far too much. Get over it!
No, you aren't looking in far enough...
And get on MSN, please!
Post by: Mario on April 17, 2004, 09:40:33 PM
*Announcement made on April 13, there are 12 main characters in Eternal Darkness, you are the 13th.
*IGN-PGC-SK-PRANK has 13 letters
*IGN gave MGS:TTS 8.5. 8 + 5 = 13.
*There is a wavebird on one of the desks in Twin Snakes, there are 13 buttons/switches on a wavebird.
*You can play pranks on people with wavebirds by switching the frequencys around and stuff.
*April is the fourth month of the year, Eternal Darkness took 4 years to finally get released, and the year right now is 2004.
*I3 = B = 2nd letter = second party = Silicon Knights staying second party
*At 3.33 pm this afternoon I ate a sandwich, Denis Dyack eats sandwiches.
*ED2 will be their 3rd GameCube game. (ED)2 + 3(rd GCN game) = 5, May is the 5th month, May is E3, and Dyack said they MAY still develop Nintendo games.
*The PGC article about SK leaving has 261 words, whats 333 - 261? 72. 72 hours is three days. E3 goes for three days.
The darkness comes.
Post by: Berto2K on April 17, 2004, 09:45:39 PM
But seriously, as more "real" connections are made, I am starting to lean towards this being not true. There are many things that are odd or don't add up right.
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on April 17, 2004, 09:56:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
*At 3.33 pm this afternoon I ate a sandwich, Denis Dyack eats sandwiches.
WTF? lolz
This is getting beyond ridiculous.
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 17, 2004, 11:54:00 PM
I've figured it out.
Remember when Konami infiltrated SK? I don't think we got the real story.
I think they killed Dyack and installed a puppet Dyack of their own so they could port MGS:TT.
Post by: joedaddy on April 18, 2004, 03:37:49 AM
*HATERATION ALERT*
im totally cool with SK leaving nintendo. i think theyre an overhyped developer and the whole SK/nintendo split has received way too much attention.
for starters, its painfully obvious that whoever created theyre logo lacks any kind of design sense. just looking at their logo gives me an indication of the quality of their work.
Eternal Darkness impressed me... in SOME respects. in others, lets just say i was less impressed. (no, im not going to get into specifics because i'll realise how weak my case is)
in summary, i dont think SK splitting is any reason to jump ship on buying the next nintendo console.
Post by: odifiend on April 18, 2004, 05:06:41 AM
Anyway look at Nintendo's logo (their name in an oval), Konami's logo (their name), Sega's logo (their name). That is the most ridiculous thing I've read in this thread and let me tell you, there was stiff competition for stupid.
Paladin: Octopus must not have died.
Post by: Smashman on April 18, 2004, 05:27:30 AM
Post by: Oldskool on April 19, 2004, 09:42:28 AM
Post by: Rich on April 19, 2004, 12:51:33 PM
Post by: Ymeegod on April 20, 2004, 05:51:00 AM
So, yeah it really isn't anything to brag about (remake or not) and I can see why SK is leaving.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 20, 2004, 06:14:05 AM
1. got no advertising
2. was released on a system with a completely different target group
3. was a remake of a game released not too far ago (i.e. the "Playstation Generation" would have been able to play it)
4. has a sequel that's already out on other consoles plus another one that's coming soon.
Post by: Ymeegod on April 20, 2004, 06:30:07 AM
And what good is bragging rights when it doesn't place food on your table? Not sure what the ratio's is with SK/Nintendo/Konami but usually developers get less than a few dollars per software sold (publisher take the big chuck as well as retailers) which means about 250 to 1/2 million revenue for Sk. Now take employees salaries (avg GD is over 75K), your going end up looking into the red.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 20, 2004, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Rich on April 20, 2004, 10:42:03 AM
Also, you have to look at how different REmake was, and how much more it pulled you in.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 20, 2004, 02:45:52 PM
If this is the case then IGN was dead on. Their philosophies are the reason for the breakup. Im sorry but i really dont agree with that. Old School gameplay, and less emphasis on graphics and story will get you nowhere fast.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 03:10:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect Cell
Im sorry but i really dont agree with that. Old School gameplay, and less emphasis on graphics and story will get you nowhere fast.
Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence!
Post by: Rich on April 20, 2004, 05:19:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect CellAs you have heard, Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship
You got that from Nintendo?
Yeah thats pretty much the exact same letter NOA gave to me, heres mine if anybody wants to read it.
Message(#6851-000266-8609\2668609)
Hi Rich,
Thank you for your e-mail. While I have limited information on the subject of our company and Silicon Knights, I'll be happy to share with you what I know. Nintendo and Silicon Knights have reached an agreement allowing Silicon Knights to pursue its vision of video game entertainment with other companies. Nintendo respects the creative work of Silicon Knights, and the parties have left the door open to work on future projects that meet the creative vision of both companies. At this time, our philosophies on software are different enough to lead to a departure from our current relationship.
Your feedback regarding this matter is extremely important to us, so I will be sure to forward your e-mail on to the appropriate departments for further review. While they cannot respond to all forwarded feedback, your comments will definitely be heard.
Sincerely,
Nintendo of America Inc.
Greg Hamilton
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 20, 2004, 05:30:52 PM
Quote
Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence
No
Emphasis on Story, like Final Fantasy, like Metal Gear, like Chrono Trigger. Dumbing down the Story and graphics for just the gameplay? Ninteno cant jump back in time to the 1980s. People dont want Pong and Pacman. They want games like Splinter Cell and Xenosaga.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 20, 2004, 05:36:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect CellQuote
Yeah, I need more emphasis on sex, drugs, and violence
No
Xenosaga? That was a game that didn't help your argument at all! I know I hate sitting through long FMV's, especially when they cannot be skipped, like in Saga, some are 45 minutes! I hate it when people bring this up, since Wind Waker and Sunshine had delightful stories, sure they weren't Eternal Darkness, but they are far from the days when the NES Zelda and Mario did not have much in the way of stories. I think that this argument is weak, considering Wolfenstein 3D's story was a paragraph in the readme, and now, even Nintendo is far beyond those days.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 05:46:34 PM
Ahaha! Contrary to what Square may have you thinking, most gamers like to play their games...
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 20, 2004, 06:18:21 PM
Quote
I think that this argument is weak
Not to me. Games are soo much more than they were 10/20 years ago. They are becoming closer to an artform, and story is vital for that. When i buy a game one of the most important parts is the story. Shenmue was one of my favorite games in the last 5 years. The game play wasnt great, but the story kept me in it. I wanted to see what happened next . It had that "movie" type feel. Eternal Darkness was also great, and its deep adult story was one of the reasons for it. Check out the more popular games. They feature great stories and graphics. Not simple graphics and no stories.
Post by: Bloodworth on April 20, 2004, 06:23:01 PM
I think if anything, it has more to do with SK having more control over their content and not having to answer to Nintendo, and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they still only put out games on Nintendo consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if they went multiplatform either, but I really don't think they've become exclusive to someone else.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 20, 2004, 06:27:22 PM
And it all turns out that the more popular games suck...Look at Final Fantasy...Just watch a freaking movie for crying out loud...
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 20, 2004, 06:49:16 PM
Post by: Rich on April 20, 2004, 07:11:06 PM
Post by: Berny on April 20, 2004, 07:11:41 PM
Post by: Rich on April 20, 2004, 07:25:31 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on April 20, 2004, 08:18:00 PM
Post by: PaLaDiN on April 20, 2004, 08:29:54 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 20, 2004, 08:46:14 PM
Post by: Gremio on April 20, 2004, 10:01:28 PM
Post by: nemo_83 on April 20, 2004, 10:06:17 PM
This news sucks. On the bright side I know that this is what will lead to the rise of the Knights as strong force within the industry.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 21, 2004, 03:16:23 AM
Quote
Nintendo hasn't changed that philosophy, see Wind Waker, which I think is better than OoT.
Good point- if anything, Nintendo is fleshing out that philosophy more and more. Wind Waker had an incredible artistic style that was amazingly well done, if you ask me, and has the most involving story in a Zelda game yet, save for maybe Majora's Mask. On top of all that it preserved the classic Zelda gameplay, just as every other Zelda game has.
Post by: KDR_11k on April 21, 2004, 03:23:46 AM
Eternal Darkness didn't have great gameplay. Hell, it had flaws like "you can't combo when there's a wall next to you", which are absolutely idiotic! The game relied on its story to stay alive and make it seem like more than a straight-forward hack&slay. Hell, FFCC, which is often criticized for lack of gameplay depth, had deeper gameplay than ED! Only MMORPGs are worse in that respect.
nemo: They weren't before, what tells you they'll be afterwards?
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 08:12:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
How could Nintendo have possibly interfered with Silicon Knights' desire for story?
I agree. Just look at the end of Paul Luther's chapter. I'm sure if Nintendo were limiting SK in any way, that sequence would have been cut.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 09:44:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Perfect CellQuote
I think that this argument is weak
Not to me. Games are soo much more than they were 10/20 years ago. They are becoming closer to an artform, and story is vital for that. When i buy a game one of the most important parts is the story. Shenmue was one of my favorite games in the last 5 years. The game play wasnt great, but the story kept me in it. I wanted to see what happened next . It had that "movie" type feel. Eternal Darkness was also great, and its deep adult story was one of the reasons for it. Check out the more popular games. They feature great stories and graphics. Not simple graphics and no stories.
If you want weak gameplay with a good story, that's your choice. I would rather have fun over story, but they don't have to cancel each other out. I say videogames already are an artform. Some of Miyamoto's games are an expression of his life philosophies, and I would say a lot of his games are works of art.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 21, 2004, 10:07:47 AM
Quote
So if they've decided that sort of thing is not worth pursuing then they've changed their game design philosophy
Well most of Iwatas public comments seem to make me think that nintendo is working on changing things, hes said things like deep complex games are not the awnser. Simpler games are...
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 10:09:50 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2004, 10:18:09 AM
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 10:23:19 AM
Post by: Rich on April 21, 2004, 10:49:12 AM
oh VJ2 is gonna rock!
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 21, 2004, 10:55:53 AM
Post by: chlupe on April 21, 2004, 11:06:49 AM
Yeah, and since when does "popular" mean "good?" What about, great stories and graphics, but no gameplay? Although I felt that ED had good gameplay, I was worried about Dyack's insistence that story is the reason to play games. I may be mistaken, and if I am I apologize, but I remember reading a quote from him saying that the reason gamers play games is to flesh out a story. I'm a gamer, and I have been for 17 years, and I've never liked a game where the quality of story and gameplay are inversely proportional, Denis. So as great a job as you've done w/ Nintendo, I can't disagree with you more.
"See? This is why I hate new, casual gamers."
Bill, you might enjoy this then: http://www.trigames.net/newsitem.php?content_id=172&console=0
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 11:18:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Rich
Yeah but the beauty of Viewtiful Joe is that it can become complex with the different combos you can string together and knowing in what fights which powers you should use. sure you don't have to use the powers to fight all the time and thats what makes it simple. Nintendo is right that Complex games will only get you so far but every game needs a certain degree of complexity similar to VJ.
oh VJ2 is gonna rock!
Yes, but VJ isn't hard to pick up and play. You could say it is easy to learn, but hard to master.
Post by: Perfect Cell on April 21, 2004, 11:30:59 AM
Popular can be good as well, but your right not always. I dont really care either. See In the end what i want the most is for Nintendo to be succesfull and prosperous, and alianating most gamers by making simple quirky games, might be good for the niche, fanboy market but not for the mainstream market. It probably leads you to how SNK sold thier Neo Geo. Dedicated solely for the main fanbase. Bare in mind their Samurai Showdown games rocked, but it led them to become a third party eventually.
Post by: the_zombie_luke on April 21, 2004, 11:32:30 AM
Post by: chaos on April 21, 2004, 06:30:03 PM
By the way; both Eternal Darkness and Metal Gear Solid both fall under the category of easily controlled games, people easily learn both games controls in seconds.
Post by: akdaman1 on April 21, 2004, 09:08:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: chaos
Okay I would just like to point out something I have probably read all of Iwata-san's interviews and not once has he said that technology wasn't important he said it would become less important, and thats true graphics arn't going to get much better and games are getting more and more complicated, how many times have you given a controller to someone and they just hand it back after two minutes because it was too difficult to decifer the controls.
Hmmmm ...the only time that happened was with my 74 yr old grandpa. So never.
Post by: chaos on April 22, 2004, 12:31:20 PM
happens to everyone
Post by: ruby_onix on September 05, 2004, 02:51:06 PM
Post by: Deguello on September 05, 2004, 03:07:37 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 05, 2004, 03:13:58 PM
"Hey I'm bored, let's make an announcement that we're leaving Nintendo, K?"
*employee's giggle like school girls*
*Rings up IGN*
"IGN? Is your fridge running? Well you'd bett-WE'RE LEAVING NINTENDO BECAUSE!"
*hangs up*
"I AM SO LOL TONIGHT!"
*2 months later*
"oh hey, weren't we sposed to tell everybody this was a joke?"
"oh yeah, we'll do that tomorrow or something"
*out of business*
Post by: joshnickerson on September 05, 2004, 03:36:23 PM
Post by: Chongman on September 05, 2004, 03:52:16 PM
that is until they release some AMAZING GAME thats for another console
Post by: joshnickerson on September 05, 2004, 04:07:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Chongman
that is until they release some AMAZING GAME thats for another console
Which will sell just as well as Eternal Darkness... wait...
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 05, 2004, 04:20:44 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 05, 2004, 04:40:40 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 05, 2004, 04:48:28 PM
If you put zombies and monsters in ANY PS2 game it well sell 500'000 units gauranteed.
Post by: Deguello on September 05, 2004, 05:04:49 PM
Come on yourself. They can't even get a game like Ico or Megaman X7 to sell on the PS2.
Myth: Games sell better on the PS2 becuase there are more of them.
Fact: Games might have a little advantage on PS2 ownership, but the chances of it selling are the same as everywhere else. In fact, I'd argue that certain games get lost in the shuffle and are quickly discontinued, so their slaes might actually be worse than if they tried a less-cluttered platform, where their game might get a little more attention.
Post by: Ian Sane on September 05, 2004, 06:00:24 PM
Why do we care? I don't want SK to release a great game on another console because I bought a Cube under the assumption that all SK games would be Nintendo exclusive for this gen. Regardless of how well a PS2 SK game would sell it would be a game we Cube owners wouldn't be able to play and that sucks.
"They can't even get a game like Ico or Megaman X7 to sell on the PS2."
I'll agree with ICO but isn't Mega Man X7 that sh!tty 3D Mega Man game? 3D Mega Man deserves to sell like ass.
"In fact, I'd argue that certain games get lost in the shuffle and are quickly discontinued, so their slaes might actually be worse than if they tried a less-cluttered platform, where their game might get a little more attention."
I agree completely. You know why Acclaim did so well last gen? Because they focused on the games starved N64 audience where they were able to get okay but not great games like Turok and Extreme G to look like major titles.
Anyway to get back on topic I too am wondering we we've received no follow up to this.
Post by: Chongman on September 05, 2004, 06:04:53 PM
*whispers* revolutiooooon
Post by: notic on September 05, 2004, 08:48:30 PM
Post by: Flames_of_chaos on September 05, 2004, 09:16:00 PM
Quote
that is until they release some AMAZING GAME thats for another console
Published by Acclaim.
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 05, 2004, 09:21:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: notic
Why didn't Nintendo buy out SK like it did w/ Retro?
How do you know they haven't?...
Post by: ThePerm on September 05, 2004, 09:27:17 PM
also, i hope theres some revolution news this e3. I miss spaceworld. I'm still freakign out because by my calculations by the time zelda³2 comes out gcn will be $$50. A cheap console with a game that looks badass...hmm!
Post by: Deguello on September 05, 2004, 09:37:26 PM
That wasn't my point Ian. The fact that a damn Mega Man game can't sell much on the PS2 when MMBN sells ok on the GBA means that it is just as much of a crapshoot as anywhere else.
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 05, 2004, 09:44:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
"Oh c'mon. You know that with the PS2 fanbase a game like ED would have sold gangbusters."
Come on yourself. They can't even get a game like Ico or Megaman X7 to sell on the PS2.
Myth: Games sell better on the PS2 becuase there are more of them.
Surely you're not saying that ED isn't at least as good as those titles. Well, maybe that's just my opinion but ED is STILL one of my favorite games EVER. But as I said in my earlier post, "...because it has ZOMBIES AND MONSTERS". Well that's what would've got gamers to buy the game (with just a little more money thrown at it than Nintendo gave it for promotion) and then the genius gameplay and story would've solidified the title as a number one seller.
It would have had a good chance at selling well is all I'm saying.
And as far as the PS2 being a crowded console. You're right about that. But it doesn't mean that a great game with average promotion can't sell well.
Post by: Urkel on September 05, 2004, 10:36:41 PM
The reason the website hasn't been updated in OVER A YEAR is because Dyack has been stuck in the Trapper Dimension.
LOLOLOLOLASLFKAFKLJASFJASF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Dasmos on September 05, 2004, 10:45:30 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on September 05, 2004, 10:47:29 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 05, 2004, 11:42:41 PM
Post by: Infernal Monkey on September 06, 2004, 12:51:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Urkel
Oh, hell no. I'm not getting my hopes up on this topic again.
The reason the website hasn't been updated in OVER A YEAR is because Dyack has been stuck in the Trapper Dimension.
LOLOLOLOLASLFKAFKLJASFJASF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's okay though, BJ will replace Trapper quick smart, and there will be little angry with the loyal fans. BUT THEN, DISASTER WILL STRIKE, GOODBYE MESSAGES MADE FROM ROCKS! Hold me.
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 09, 2004, 06:53:22 PM
.. that or im just too stoned to know what's going on
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on September 09, 2004, 07:05:06 PM
Post by: MaleficentOgre on September 10, 2004, 03:10:22 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on September 10, 2004, 07:22:23 AM
Post by: Urkel on September 10, 2004, 07:22:21 PM
"Uh, yeah. The thing is, we've been bought out by Acclaim and are now making Too Human for the Gizmondo. Half the staff have committed suicide. Other than that it's business as usual."
Post by: PaLaDiN on September 10, 2004, 09:27:02 PM
How easily you guys forget about Eternal Delay.
Post by: notic on September 11, 2004, 10:58:34 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on September 11, 2004, 10:59:57 AM
And it's this part that doesn't make any sense whatsoever...SK is the Nintendo of the Western world in terms of philosophy... =P
Post by: Berto2K on September 11, 2004, 03:21:52 PM
Post by: Uncle Rich AiAi on September 11, 2004, 07:03:59 PM
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on September 12, 2004, 08:59:33 AM
and then there are those WMDs . . .
Post by: MaleficentOgre on September 12, 2004, 09:44:52 PM
Post by: KDR_11k on September 12, 2004, 10:04:09 PM
I said it before, I'll say it again: Too Human == Duke Nukem Forever.
Post by: ruby_onix on October 06, 2004, 12:20:50 AM
Quote
At the official Nintendo Norway site's GameCube game list, a mystery title from Silicon Knights, is listed on the list...The game is said to be an action-adventure title, but word has it that it is not, Too Human. Although we have no idea if Nintendo Norway's list holds up or not, we're hoping that they are right in the fact that Silicon Knights is working on another GameCube title. Stay tuned.
Here's the game list that they're referring to.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 06, 2004, 12:24:54 AM
Iwata-san: "SHIMATA! WATASHI WA SUPER BAKA DESUYO!"
Post by: odifiend on October 06, 2004, 06:01:52 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 06, 2004, 06:16:19 AM
Post by: odifiend on October 06, 2004, 07:38:31 AM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 06, 2004, 07:44:00 AM
The Xbox stuff mentioned on IGN pissed me off huge when I read it. When I bought a Cube I assumed that Too Human, Perfect Dark, and Conker would be exclusives. To have all three of them jump to the Xbox with Nintendo not really providing any sort of similar replacement really pisses me off.
SK and Nintendo supposedly having different opinions regarding the future of the industry, particularly regarding technology, kinda freaks me out. I get visions of the Revolution being some weird Virtual Boy device. Though the revealing of the DS has made me less worried since that seems to be designed well. Still I want some closure to this whole scenario. I want to know why SK left or if applicable what Nintendo did to scare them off. Is it the sort of thing that's going to scare me off too?
Post by: joshnickerson on October 06, 2004, 08:01:18 AM
Another, more reasonable possibility, is that SK only produced two games during the Cube's run, Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes. And since we heard buzz that SK was leaving before Twin Snakes was even released, it could be taken that because ED sold so poorly, SK wanted to go out on their own. But that's still a rather lame excuse, isn't it.
I don't know. After all those interviews were Dennis Dyack was so into Nintendo he practically wanted to have its babies, it just seems strange they would split away without so much as a reason... of course, they could have always had some green thrown their way by a certain computer giant...
Eh, I'm not worried anyway. Even if SK stayed with Nintendo, we probably wouldn't see Too Human for several more console cycles anyway
Post by: ThePerm on October 06, 2004, 09:13:46 AM
Post by: Picceelo on October 06, 2004, 09:26:41 AM
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 06, 2004, 06:58:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
The Xbox stuff mentioned on IGN pissed me off huge when I read it. When I bought a Cube I assumed that Too Human, Perfect Dark, and Conker would be exclusives. To have all three of them jump to the Xbox with Nintendo not really providing any sort of similar replacement really pisses me off.
But Xbox hasn't received any of them yet either. The only one that will likely make it out this generation (you never know with RARE, they have ever made a release date), would be Conker, and that in itself is sad because that game was completed how many years ago? All they are doing is updating graphics and adding a more fleshed out multiplayer w/ online capabilities, and maybe (if were're lucky) another movie parody or two.
basically all I'm saying is that there is no real reason to be pissed, cause we haven't missed out on anything yet, cause it still hasn't been delivered to anyone.
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 06, 2004, 07:21:32 PM
Post by: The Omen on October 07, 2004, 08:31:26 AM
Post by: mantidor on October 07, 2004, 09:10:30 AM
I found out about the SK incident after recently, when I read that Dennis Dyack was going to a Nintendo meeting and the reporter was intrigued, I investigate further and found out they had break up! and that made me feel bad, since I had the chance to buy ED once and didnt
(I know 1 game wont make a difference, but I still feel bad)now SK in the DS.... its quite likely, even Rare is making games for the GBA and probably the DS...
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 07, 2004, 02:24:50 PM
As to how accurate that is, I am not sure, but feel free to look into it.
Nintendo of Norway
check the games release page
Post by: Truthliesn1seyes on October 08, 2004, 10:54:26 AM
Post by: Deguello on October 08, 2004, 11:48:41 AM
Post by: cubiot on October 08, 2004, 01:54:50 PM
Sounds like denial to me.
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on October 08, 2004, 01:58:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: cubiot
Sounds like denial to me.
....................................?
Post by: Bill Aurion on October 08, 2004, 02:01:16 PM
Post by: RABicle on October 08, 2004, 05:28:08 PM
Post by: odifiend on October 08, 2004, 05:59:37 PM
. And according to Dyack, though, unofficial SK doesn't even fall under second party anymore.
Post by: Deguello on October 09, 2004, 12:20:16 AM
Post by: Grey Ninja on October 09, 2004, 11:59:09 AM
Post by: Deguello on October 09, 2004, 02:14:22 PM
Totally hypothetical scenario since it was Nintendo that approached Konami with the idea, I believe. If it were not for Nintendo, that game would not exist at all.
And maybe if Konami had the idea to begin withm they would have developed and given a damn how it did instead of copping out by saying they didn't want to take attention away from MGS3.
Post by: Urkel on October 09, 2004, 10:32:56 PM
The whole point was to give Cube owners what they had been missing out on. So they gave us MGS1 with MGS2 gameplay enhancements. Kind of like giving us the experience of both games.
And I bet the game would've sold a lot better if Konami had actually, y'know, advertised it. It's a pity that whenever somebody points to the weak sales of MGS:TS, they happen to forget that insignificant little fact.
Post by: ruby_onix on October 10, 2004, 01:53:44 AM
On top of that, Kojima himself went a long way toward damaging the GameCube's reputation by referring to the GameCube as "a child's purple handbag", and then later saying in an interview that he was making games for the PS2 and not the GameCube, because "the GameCube is for kids", unlike the PS2 (although he later claimed that he was misquoted, and that he likes playing "kids games" with his son anyways).
The Twin Snakes was a personal apology from Hideo Kojima to Shigeru Miyamoto (and GameCube owners), with Silicon Knights doing all the actual work of making the apology.
This is how much Kojima's personal apology is worth. I think it captures the spirit of The Twin Snakes rather nicely. Whether that's how much it's worth to Kojima, or just to Konami, is unclear.
Post by: Renny on October 10, 2004, 05:32:28 AM
Post by: ThePerm on October 12, 2004, 07:30:13 AM
i always wondered what the company life over at sk was like. Having worked mostly on pcgames and then on the playstation it might seem a little wierd for some of the employees to be working on Gamecube. So possibly the employees are disinterested in the cube
a mutiny for captain Denis
another conspiracy is thatsilicon knights broke up with nintendo just to get ps3 devs as to let Ninty know whatsony is doing.
Post by: odifiend on October 12, 2004, 12:20:44 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 12, 2004, 12:41:54 PM
Don't be nasty, now.
Post by: almondblight on October 13, 2004, 09:51:37 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 13, 2004, 10:05:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: UrkelAnd I bet the game would've sold a lot better if Konami had actually, y'know, advertised it. It's a pity that whenever somebody points to the weak sales of MGS:TS, they happen to forget that insignificant little fact.
Hey Nintendo themselves should have been pushing this game like there was no tomorrow. Nintendo should have realized that they don't get many opportunities to shed their "NINTENDO IS FER GAI BABIES!!11one" image. They should have jumped at the opportunity to say "HEY LOOK! WE HAVE METAL GEAR TOO!"
Post by: Mario on October 14, 2004, 12:09:23 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on October 14, 2004, 12:35:46 AM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 14, 2004, 07:30:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
"Hey look, our new console only plays old games you've already played!"
Yes, but wonderfully remade versions of old games you've already played.
Post by: ThePerm on October 15, 2004, 10:34:18 PM
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 17, 2004, 10:54:18 PM
It's sad. People are easily confused yet so hard to entertain.
Post by: Rob91883 on October 18, 2004, 09:15:47 PM
Post by: Ian Sane on October 19, 2004, 07:44:51 AM
When Twin Snakes was announced I was at least happy that we were getting something worthwhile from Konami. I was however disappointed that Silicon Knights was working on it because to me it seemed like a complete waste to have a talented developer handling an enhanced port. There's no point in having a creative developer working on someone else's game. Plus I was angry that Konami wasn't willing to work on it themselves. The "deal" seemed pretty one sided with Nintendo doing most of the work only for Konami to completely sabotage the game's sales by focusing on MGS3 instead.
If Twin Snakes contributed to Silicon Knights' departure I'm going to really pissed off... at Konami. They were a bunch of stubborn dicks who didn't feel like doing the grunt work, or providing an original title, or promoting the game. Had they put more effort into the project then Silicon Knights probably wouldn't even have been involved and things could be different now.
Post by: Rancid Planet on October 19, 2004, 08:35:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Ian Sane
When Twin Snakes was announced I was at least happy that we were getting something worthwhile from Konami. I was however disappointed that Silicon Knights was working on it because to me it seemed like a complete waste to have a talented developer handling an enhanced port. There's no point in having a creative developer working on someone else's game.
That's exactly how I felt about the whole situation. I mean I had fun playing TS but c'mon that was so not a job for a talented developer like SK. But who knows, perhaps the game was supposed to be a gift for SK. So that they might see some big sales for once. God knows they deserved them for Eternal Darkness.
