Post by: evil intentions on April 07, 2004, 01:30:13 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 07, 2004, 01:38:19 PM
Post by: Ocarina_Jedi on April 07, 2004, 04:29:33 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 07, 2004, 04:41:28 PM
My theory plays out with the original ending of OoT, which was going to show Link and Malon riding off into the sunset on Epona(assuming they were leaving Hyrule)...
Post by: Bloodworth on April 07, 2004, 05:47:54 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 07, 2004, 06:00:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
continuity = zero
WRONG!
Link left Hyrule when Zelda sent him back in time at the end of OoT and when he went to Terminia. Simple.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 07, 2004, 06:03:34 PM
Anyway, WW's world is strictly connected to the events that Big Link experienced, where Ganondorf was defeated 7 years after Kid Link got the Master Sword. If we look at the timeline Link jumps thru, Big Link was the one-and-only Hero of Time and physically belonged in that Ganondorf-influenced Hyrule. However, "Almost-legal" Princess Zelda in her "infinite wisdom" (Triforce, my butt) sent Link's arse back 7 years, essentially physically removing Link from their universe and eliminating any meaningful involvement he'd have in their future -- because Link is now physcially lagging behind by 7 years -- that's why the Hero "didn't show up" in the precedents to WW. Point is: IT'S ALL ZELDA'S FAULT tHE STUPID *#&%@.
Now, MM is of course connected to Kid Link after he was returned to being a kid, specifically before Ganondorf chased Kid Zelda outta the castle. It's funny in a Tom Hanks/"Big" sorta way cuz Link got to experience what it's like "to be a MAN" even though his mentality didn't mature at the same time his body did, anyway... The problem is it isn't clear whether or not Ganondorf was a threat, or if he was there at all. What signaled Link that it was OK to run off (and end up in Termina)? It sounds like Kid Link and Kid Zelda teamed up on Ganondorf and defeated him then and there, if he was around at all. Or it was like "ok Link, there's no bad guy to defeat so you can run off wherever you want, oh, take the Ocarina of Time with you." Whatever happened, with Kid Link and Kid Zelda practically able to run around for 7 years together, the events in the latter part of Ocarina of Time most likely would not have taken place, and we're now working with an alternative universe, where the OoT/WW universe moved along separately.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 07, 2004, 06:24:10 PM
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 08, 2004, 09:28:34 AM
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Huh? Adult Link and Young Link are the same person just at different ages. At the end of OoT Zelda sends Link back in time just like every time Link put the Master Sword back in the pedestal. He then goes in search of Navi and winds up leaving Hyrule when he goes to Terminia. Obviously no one in Hyrule would know where Link went or that he turned back into a child. They would just remember the Hero of Time that defeated Ganon at the end of OoT.
By the way, the ending of OoT created two time periods. One which could be considered Adult Link's since it follows Ganondorf taking over Hyrule and Link defeating him. This would also be the time period in which WW and all the other Zeldas take place except for MM. The other is Young Link's which is where Link was sent at the end of OoT and where MM takes place.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 08, 2004, 09:38:15 AM
Since we are going to follow Wind Waker's timeline, since it seems to be following the true timeline of the games, then we must assume that older Link didn't disappear when he went back to his past...It wouldn't make sense for Ganondorf to continue existing in the Sacred Realm while older Link disappeared completely...So it can be said that both older Link and young Link exist in two separate timelines, but you can't say older Link disappeared completely when Link went back in time...
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 08, 2004, 10:27:28 AM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 08, 2004, 10:45:16 AM
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 08, 2004, 11:16:27 AM
It's like you have two separate trains that are running parallel to each other. Link was on one train but when Zelda sent him back he was put on the other train. The other train that Link was on still exists though. Again, just look at the pic I made.
Post by: evil intentions on April 08, 2004, 02:05:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Gibdo Master
I see what the problem is now. You just aren't getting this whole concept of two time lines. When Link was sent back by Zelda it caused a weird paradox in which the time line was split in two. On one time line you have the events in which Ganondorf took over Hyrule and was defeated by Link. The other time line is where Zelda sent Link at the end of OoT and where the events of MM occur. These two time lines are totally separate and the one doesn't affect the other.
It's like you have two separate trains that are running parallel to each other. Link was on one train but when Zelda sent him back he was put on the other train. The other train that Link was on still exists though. Again, just look at the pic I made.
Maybe Link didn't know that Hyrule was in trouble. You would think that Zelda would try to contact him somehow.
Then again, the King of Red Lions said that Link scattered his Triforce of Courage all over the Great Sea. The Great Sea was formed by the Gods when they flooded Hyrule. So Link must have been around after all of that had happened.
Post by: Ocarina_Jedi on April 09, 2004, 01:47:09 PM
Once Ganondorf was defeated, the sages seal him away in the Sacred Realm, effectively erasing his existence. I think that we can say there are two timelines now. Adult Link is removed from his timeline now. Young Link is now able to live the life he was supposed to live. Now no threat exists, so he never leaves the Kokiri Forest to save the world. However, he still has the memories of what happened (or what didn't happen?), so eventually, he leaves anyway and ends up in Termina. But then, he still doesn't show up again after that. Where did he go now?
Post by: evil intentions on April 09, 2004, 02:21:55 PM
Post by: Hostile Creation on April 09, 2004, 04:21:09 PM
OH NO!
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 09, 2004, 04:40:13 PM
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I just noticed that there's a great increase in retarded, MS paint avatars here.
OH NO!
Hey!
Post by: evil intentions on April 09, 2004, 05:12:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I just noticed that there's a great increase in retarded, MS paint avatars here.
OH NO!
Of course you're not talking about my avatar.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 10, 2004, 09:09:38 AM
When Zelda sent Link back in time he didn't just run off, he had to do everything over and over again, therefore trapping Ganondorf AND Link AND Zelda AND everyone in a never ending time loop. Since Link was successful the first time, he will NEVAR lose which means Ganondorf will never be able to stop him from defeating him and go back in time and do it over again. Zelda had to send link Link back in time because ganondorf has the power to break the seal that the sages put on him. ganondorf has the power to travel between different dimensions, which is how he always shows up in all the different zeldas. They all take place in a different dimensionm there is no timeline! *eye twitch*
The reason WW had Hyrule in it was because Ganondorf traveled there at one point in time and filled the minds of the people with lore about the OoT's Hyrule, so they built whole cities and monuments honoring him! IT SNOT THE REEL HYRULE! *brain implodes*
Post by: evil intentions on April 10, 2004, 10:09:40 AM
In your first paragraph, Kn, I see where you are going with this. It makes a lot of sense. But your second paragraph doesnt. It HAD to be the real Hyrule.
But what about what I said before in one of my above posts?
Quote
Then again, the King of Red Lions said that Link scattered his Triforce of Courage all over the Great Sea. The Great Sea was formed by the Gods when they flooded Hyrule. So Link must have been around after all of that had happened.
Post by: mouse_clicker on April 10, 2004, 10:22:46 AM
Quote
Then again, the King of Red Lions said that Link scattered his Triforce of Courage all over the Great Sea. The Great Sea was formed by the Gods when they flooded Hyrule. So Link must have been around after all of that had happened.
He could have scattered the pieces before Hyrule was flooded and the King of Red Lions was simply using connotation that the current Link would understand. We know that Ganondorf escaped from his seal, we know that he wreaked havoc across Hyrule, we know that the Hero of Time (the first Link) didn't show up to defeat him, and we know that the Goddesses flooded Hyrule to subdue him. So what we're trying to do here is explain why exactly Link didn't show up to defeat Ganondorf when he escaped from the seal. The way I see it, after Ganondorf had been defeated the first time and sealed away, Zelda used the Ocarina to return Link to his original time, one where Ganondorf didn't exist- this created an alternate timeline, one that branches off from the main Zelda mythos. After Link had been returned, he went to Termina and that's where Majora's Mask takes place. On the main timeline, however, the original Link is no longer there because he was returned to the alternate timeline, which explains why he wasn't there to fight Ganondorf when he broke out of his seal.
Phew, it's tiring trying to make sense out of a plot with more holes than swiss cheese.
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 10, 2004, 10:42:27 AM
As I typed the first paragraph I thought of WW, and tried to make sense of it....so then came the second. =P If anyone has any explanation for my theory that includes WW, then I'd be happy to delete the second paragraph.
Post by: Draygaia on April 10, 2004, 10:48:54 AM
Post by: KnowsNothing on April 10, 2004, 10:51:53 AM
Actually, I should stop calling it a theory, since it's wrong. =P
Post by: Berny on April 10, 2004, 12:51:17 PM
Post by: evil intentions on April 12, 2004, 06:54:56 AM
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Originally posted by: Draygaia
Thats not hard. Link went to Termina got seperated from the triforce of courage because of the dimension traveling, saved Termina, went back to Hyrule, continued on to the Kokiri forest and when danger called destiny couldn't call him because the triforce of courage was his marker. Link had descendants and eventually by chance the King of Hyrul found him on an island.
We don't actually know that the current Link was one of Link's decendants. The King of Red Lions chose the current Link because he thought he was brave enough to complete the tasks. That's why he told the water god (forgot his name, something with a "J") that the current Link was not the chosen one or whatever.
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 12, 2004, 07:41:01 AM
And I thought it was pretty much explained in WW that the Links were the same in spirit only, and that they weren't direct descendants of each other...(Think back to Ganondorf's speech before you fight the puppet) And if you go with the theory that Link never returned from Termina after MM, then he couldn't possibly have had children that made it back to Hyrule...
Again I'll say...Buddhism(main religion in Japan) has a strong belief in reincarnation, so basing the series on the subject wouldn't be off-base...So I like to believe that the spirit of the first Link(or not necessarily the spirit of the first Link...More like a heroic entiety...It's kind of hard to explain in words) is taking up a new body in each sector of the series...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 12, 2004, 05:45:39 PM
Post by: evil intentions on April 17, 2004, 08:47:54 AM
I'd like it better if the real Link came back in the next game. I hate it that you can't use him. And I hate it even more that no one really knows what happened to him!
I still think that he was still around after the Great Sea was created...
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 17, 2004, 09:18:07 AM
And the fact that WW takes place 100/1000 years after OoT, there is no chance at all that he could be still alive, and even less of a chance of seeing him if he was stuck in Termina...
Post by: evil intentions on April 18, 2004, 10:49:42 AM
Post by: Gibdo Master on April 18, 2004, 08:49:09 PM
Post by: evil intentions on April 23, 2004, 12:22:04 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 23, 2004, 02:59:34 PM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on April 23, 2004, 03:03:53 PM
Post by: Krazie26 on April 24, 2004, 05:21:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by: Bloodworth
continuity = zero
Yeah, agreed
Post by: evil intentions on April 30, 2004, 01:31:10 PM
Quote
No, I believe he left it behind and the people of Hyrule scattered it around so evil couldn't find it...
Then how come they didn't use it?
Post by: Bill Aurion on April 30, 2004, 01:32:55 PM
And also remember, Link only has the Triforce of Courage, which only gives him that...No super powers for him... ^_^
Post by: evil intentions on May 01, 2004, 09:15:27 AM
Post by: Oldskool on May 10, 2004, 09:04:47 AM
But what happens in kid links world... hint hint
Post by: VideoGamerX on May 16, 2004, 11:58:03 AM
I always thought that it was just like the guy above me stated it as. In OoT, there are literally two different worlds: one where the mastersword hasn't unlocked the gateway to the Triforce, and the one where Link pulled the sword and allowed Ganon to gnab the Triforce.
And as we all know, once we banish Ganon in OoT, the Princess Zelda tells us her mistake and promptly returns us to our childhood where we belong. The land of Hyrule is safe (both in the present and in the future).
What cannot be is the idea that Link somehow scattered the Triforce of Courage before leaving for Termina, nor did it shatter because he left. The childhood timeline has no impact on the world Link left behind (the one where he banished Ganon). So what must have happened is when he left the world 7 years in the future for the last time, the Triforce must have been hidden so a repeat of the events couldn't occur.
This Hyrule that was saved by Link represents the main timeline because it perpetuates the Legend of the Hero. The timeline that leads to Majora's mask will do something totally unpredictable and unrelated to the Legend of Zelda most likely.
So, Ganon is locked away with his evil power, which begins to build and grow. He never actually breaks free of the seal, but his evil power is spilling out on Hyrule. When the Hero doesn't return, the gods or goddesses flood Hyrule to cover up the evil. With time, Ganon is able to cause the forces of good, and the new Link, to seek after the mastersword, which then frees Ganon of the seal that was keeping him locked away. Ganon then immediately goes after the pieces of the Triforce that are hidden away.
My best guess is that when Link is returned to his childhood for the final time the Triforce of Courage is split up and hidden across the land to help prevent this thing from happening again. It took the new Link to repeat past mistakes for Ganon to have a shot at obtaining the Triforce.
Post by: gamewinner on June 01, 2004, 02:52:42 PM
(Many months later)
I'm sure he's through a break through.
Well any way, I'm not that sure, I was thrying to be funny. Sorry. Maybe, for sure, he went on another adventure.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 01, 2004, 11:31:05 PM
Using the Triumph Forks of Courage, Link turned himself into a woman, and became the leading lady of another series of games we might be familiar with.
Post by: couchmonkey on June 02, 2004, 11:49:16 AM
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ganondorf has the power to travel between different dimensions, which is how he always shows up in all the different zeldas. They all take place in a different dimensionm there is no timeline! *eye twitch*
Best...explanation....EVER!
Now I will begin by admitting that I don't recall the exact details of WW's storyline anymore, so this may be wrong, but...
Didn't it say that the Triforce was scattered after the Hero of Time left Hyrule? Therefore, maybe Link lost his "Heroness" when he went to Termina and was unable to defeat Ganon upon his return.
Alternatively, I don't remember the game specifically saying that the events happened during the Hero's lifetime. It was implied by the line about the Hero not coming back when the people prayed for him, but I thought the game was pretty foggy and a little contradictory on what happened. It seems possible to me that Ganon came back some generations after Link left, and since Link lost the Triforce of Courage by leaving Hyrule, there was no bloodline for the Hero of Hyrule, which is why no hero came to save the people, and why Link in the Wind Waker has to revive the bloodline. (In previous games, I believe the Links were supposed to be direct decendants of previous owners of the Triforce of courage, right?)
Ocarina of Time's ending leaves A LOT of questions about the timeline unanswered: none of us can say for sure when in the timeline Ganon was destroyed, or if there are two separate timelines, or if Link got stuck in an endless loop. Just one more reason to not agonize over the Zelda timeline (although it is kind of fun).
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 02, 2004, 12:09:48 PM
If that were the case, he could have regained the Triforce if need be...However, I don't think Ganondorf began to return until long after the Hero of Time was dead/gone...
Example...After OoT, older Link disappeared...Young Link went back to his own timeline...Ganondorf no longer exists in Young Link's timeline because Ganondorf has been sealed in the Sacred Realm...Ganondorf releases himself in Older Link's timeline, but Link no longer exists, and thus Ganondorf is free to do whatever he wants...
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2004, 01:10:55 PM
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 02, 2004, 01:29:23 PM
And I was merely explaining what most likely happened to couchmonkey...Anything wrong with that?
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on June 02, 2004, 02:29:24 PM
post.count++
Post by: Jale on June 03, 2004, 01:16:02 AM
Post by: elementc on June 17, 2004, 03:31:26 AM
Post by: evil intentions on June 17, 2004, 08:52:49 AM
So are you saying that Link was having hallucinations?
Post by: Jale on June 17, 2004, 10:23:53 AM
Post by: GoldShadow1 on July 05, 2004, 09:27:24 PM
I think Link (the younger version) simply grew up, had many adventures, and died of old age. The Hero of Time was not a person, but a legend - and the people cried out for that legend, even though the actual person behind it was long gone.
Post by: elementc on July 06, 2004, 11:54:17 AM
Post by: Rikske on July 06, 2004, 01:51:26 PM
Then again, the King of Red Lions said that Link scattered his Triforce of Courage all over the Great Sea. The Great Sea was formed by the Gods when they flooded Hyrule. So Link must have been around after all of that had happened.
This is not true, if you've read good, then you would find that Link didn't scatter the Triforce, it HAPPENED when he left Hyrule, meaning it happened when he went to Termina. Link destroyed Ganon, and was sent back in time by Zelda, only this time he had the Triforce of Courage in his child form. When he left the land, the Triforce scattered, but Link didn't do this willingly. The reason why in WW the Hero of Time is mentioned is because the Royal Family remembered him. Not the rest of Hyrule, they just read about this legend. Now it's clear? It's like the King of Red Lions says: after he left the land that had made him a legend the Triforce was scattered. Why does WW have to follow up to the timeline of older Link in OoT, when it's also possible that the Royal Family wrote down this legend, so people woeld remember him. I think that's the case, and when Ganon was sealed away by the six sages in OoT, it was in MM as if Ganon never existed. It comes down to this point you are all missing: Zelda being a princess and her ability to write and read (Zelda's letter, OoT is proof of this), and only Link and Zelda remembered the legend, and Zelda being royal, she sure as hell can make a population believe a legend, whether it happened in the same timeline or seven years later.
Post by: Rikske on July 06, 2004, 01:54:43 PM
Then again, the King of Red Lions said that Link scattered his Triforce of Courage all over the Great Sea. The Great Sea was formed by the Gods when they flooded Hyrule. So Link must have been around after all of that had happened.
This is not true, if you've read good, then you would find that Link didn't scatter the Triforce, it HAPPENED when he left Hyrule, meaning it happened when he went to Termina. Link destroyed Ganon, and was sent back in time by Zelda, only this time he had the Triforce of Courage in his child form, because the Triforce couldn't go back to the point where the Goddesses left Hyrule, for Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power when he put into the timeless void. When Link left the land, the Triforce scattered, but Link didn't do this willingly. The reason why in WW the Hero of Time is mentioned is because the Royal Family remembered him. Not the rest of Hyrule, they just read about this legend. Now it's clear? It's like the King of Red Lions says: after he left the land that had made him a legend the Triforce was scattered. Why does WW have to follow up to the timeline of older Link in OoT, when it's also possible that the Royal Family wrote down this legend, so people would remember him. I think that's the case, and when Ganon was sealed away by the six sages in OoT, it was in MM as if Ganon never existed. It comes down to this point you are all missing: Zelda being a princess and her ability to write and read (Zelda's letter, OoT is proof of this), and only Link and Zelda remembering the legend, and Zelda being royal, she sure as hell can make a population believe a legend, whether it happened in the same timeline or seven years later. So Wind Waker occured in the Timeline of MM, as do all the Zelda games.
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 06, 2004, 04:15:41 PM
Post by: evil intentions on July 06, 2004, 08:11:18 PM
Post by: Mario on July 07, 2004, 01:36:58 AM
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 07, 2004, 02:50:33 PM
To have a weaker Link who can hallucinate, we must have... ALCOHOLIC LINK!
Post by: elementc on July 07, 2004, 09:25:57 PM
Oh joy!!
Post by: Jale on July 08, 2004, 09:13:04 AM
Just equip your beer goggles and suddenly all dorrs will melt away before your very eyes!
Also try equipping your rose tinted glasses and all those enemies will dissappear!
